[nycbug-talk] RE: Max OS X and BSD
Sun Apr 11 22:36:04 EDT 2004
This post is from the FreeBSD-advocacy list. . .
But also a discussion here. . .
>From: Edward Eigerman [mailto:eigerman at apple.com]
>Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:47 AM
>To: george at sddi.net
>Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org
>Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD
>So, OS X isn't BSD, it's Darwin. Darwin is a BSD derivative,
>but likes to think of itself as it's own project. It does have
>binary compatibility with BSD, to a large extent. System V is
>not involved, that was the now gone and very occasionally
>You sort of have to think of Darwin as the BSD kernel running
>on top of the Mach Micro Kernel. So it is both BSD and Mach.
>Mach is the core layer of a couple of OSs, but is only the
>actual center of HURD, as far as I know.
>NextStep is the core of OS X, but BSD code has been
>re-introduced with each revision. If you look at that horrible
>family tree I put up in my presentation you'll see multiple
>arrows showing code pollination coming over from other BSD
>projects into OS X and Darwin.
>NetInfo is, for instance, a pure NeXT technology, but is now
>supported in OS X as a legacy technology. We've moved to LDAP
>as a directory service, but also support BSD flat file
>OS X is FreeBSD. Primarily it is. It contains a lot of the
>code of FreeBSD. There are also elements of NetBSD. All that
>sits on top of Mach. What it really is is Darwin, a posix
>compliant BSD derivative. But BSD binaries will usually
>re-compile and execute and most of what you know about FreeBSD
>(besides directory locations, which is not a small piece) does apply.
>OS X is BSD Unix. For most intents and purposes it is. It is
>actually a separate project, called Darwin, but Darwin is
>probably only slightly further from FreeBSD than NetBSD is, or
>OpenBSD. It might be closer for all I know. Also, OS X is
>posix compliant, but not posix certified. So you will only
>ever hear Apple say that OS X is Unix-based. We don't legally
>have the right to represent it as Unix.
>You are not completely off base, but the press and your
>friends aren't either.
>On Apr 9, 2004, at 6:42 AM, G. Rosamond wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org] On
>Behalf Of John Von Essen
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:47 PM
> To: freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org
> Subject: Max OS X and BSD
> I need to get something cleared up in my head
>because it is driving me
> nuts. It has to do with the relationship
>between Mac OS X and BSD.
> For starters, I am an "old" NeXT user. I used
>NeXTSTEP 3.x and
> 4.2. I remember back in 97, Apple acquired NeXT
>software and thus
> acquired the OPENSTEP 4.2 operating system. At
>the time I was running
> OPENSTEP 4.2 (along with the ill-fated WebObjects) on a
> Pentium II box,
> and running NEXTSTEP 3.3 User on a NeXTStation
>Mono Slab. Around that
> time, Apple started work on rhapsody - their
>next generation OS. I was
> under the assumption that rhapsody (and later
>darwin) was basically an
> OPENSTEP derivative with a brand new graphics
>layer. Its obvious to
> anybody who uses OS X currently, and who used
>to use OPENSTEP 4.2. In
> OS X, the app NetInfo is strikingly similar to
>the NetInfo app in
> NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. A ps -ax lists a whole bunch
>of processes that are
> also strikingly similar between the two. The
>there are things like
> WebObject which came from OPENSTEP 4.2,
> which was
> present back in NEXTSTEP versions.
> I was under the impression that OS X was a
>derivative of OPENSTEP -
> which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT
>BSD and NOT System V,
> rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a
>BSD kernel derivative).
> Apple scraped the graphics layer and made their
>own. And this is where
> the BSD connection comes in, Apple scraped
>OPENSTEP's TCP/IP and opted
> to use the one from FreeBSD - which is the best!
> The problem is I hear things from people, and I
>read things from
> prominent sources, that completely make no
>sense. Things like:
> OS X is FreeBSD
> OS X is BSD Unix
> Apple uses the FreeBSD kernel
> And today I got a security email from
>WatchGuard (the crapy firewall
> people) with the statement:
> "With OS X, Apple changed the core of its
>operating system to
> a version
> Unix known as BSD."
> Then colleges of mine read that, and they come
>to me and say,
> "Hey, did
> ya hear? Apple uses FreeBSD"
> Its driving me nuts, when are people going to
>get things straight? Or
> am I completely off base here?!
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