<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><br><br>On Tuesday, May 6, 2014, Mark Saad <<a href="mailto:mark.saad@ymail.com" target="_blank">mark.saad@ymail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Ed<br>> I I have learned one thing , this new java tech is soo cool . Look they even made a ssh server in it .<br>
><br>> <a href="http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/" target="_blank">http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/</a><br>><br>> Ohh and I hear "our" new web server scales to 4 concurrent users . I am not sure what 1999 will bring us maybe Microsoft will make a windows 99 .<br>
> ---<br>><br>><br>><br>>> On May 6, 2014, at 9:48 PM, George Rosamond <<a href="mailto:george@ceetonetechnology.com" target="_blank">george@ceetonetechnology.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> Edward Capriolo:<br>
>>> What a terrible example. Jordan was like an 80 /85 % free throw shooter.<br>>>> Since he shot 10 a game he missed them all the time.<br>>><br>>> Wow... ed posted and didn't mention Java.<br>
>><br>>> I find that the people who know nothing about sports most often use<br>>> Jordan in metaphors. And we all expect programmers to make mistakes...<br>>> may be he knows less about development than basketball.<br>
>><br>>> And I love the infect OpenSSH/OpenBSD by naming next to OpenSSL.<br>>><br>>> g<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> talk mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:talk@lists.nycbug.org" target="_blank">talk@lists.nycbug.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk" target="_blank">http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> talk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:talk@lists.nycbug.org" target="_blank">talk@lists.nycbug.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk" target="_blank">http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk</a><br>><br><br>Mark,<br><br>No one knows what your talking about. I can only hazard a guess that your somehow trying to troll me over java, how your company is switching to it, and how you don't like it.<br>
<br></div>Well guess fin what, you fed me, I am in. I now have a 8 year track record of designing scalable systems in Java.<br><br></div>When I'm not writing blog posts about distributed massive scale NoSQL databases written that get picked up my <a href="http://highscalability.com">highscalability.com</a> (<a href="http://highscalability.com/blog/2012/5/30/strategy-get-servers-for-free-and-make-users-happy-by-turnin.html">http://highscalability.com/blog/2012/5/30/strategy-get-servers-for-free-and-make-users-happy-by-turnin.html</a>), or making side money training on massive scalable map reduce architectures (<a href="https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hands-on-apache-hive-workshop-with-ed-capriolo-austin-tickets-7334274011">https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hands-on-apache-hive-workshop-with-ed-capriolo-austin-tickets-7334274011</a>), or speaking all over the country at tech conferences (<a href="http://chariotsolutions.com/dataio2013/#edward_capriolo">http://chariotsolutions.com/dataio2013/#edward_capriolo</a>) where people pay for my flight and hotel, I do really enjoy coming on this list and debating with you over how Java can not possibly perform well or be scalable.<br>
</div><br>What do you even care anyway? You are in ops, someone hands you some code and you package it and install it. Does it make a differences if it is java/erlang/c/perl/ whatever? In ever much liked php, as an ops person I knew I had 0 input into what language developers chose to do something in.<br>
<br>If you are mad/upset/angry/sad/depressed/suidicidal that
YOUR company is using java.....Get a new fricken job! I am sure you can
find a place that is running master-slave mysql, and a big isilon nfs
server, on freebsd and be happy again. Flip the scipt. Become a CTO then you can make the decisions and make all the people under you miserable over your choices. <br><div><div><div><br></div><div>Why are you hating on Mina? This entire thread was about open <a href="http://ssh.com">ssh.com</a> making an unfair pot shot over one flaw in ssl, and how this is so unconscionable. Then you go and randomly take a pot shot at <a href="http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/" target="_blank">http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/</a>. Why target mina? Have you tried it? Do you know that it has poor performance.<br>
<br>Read this:<br><a href="https://days2011.scala-lang.org/sites/days2011/files/ws3-1-Hundt.pdf">https://days2011.scala-lang.org/sites/days2011/files/ws3-1-Hundt.pdf</a><br><br><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
We implemented a well specified compact algorithm in four</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">languages, C++, Java, Go, and Scala, and evaluated the results</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
along several dimensions, finding factors of differences in</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">all areas. We discussed many subsequent language specific</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
optimizations that point to typical performance pain points in</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">the respective languages.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
<b>We find that in regards to performance, C++ wins out by</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif"><b>a large margin. However, it also required the most extensive</b></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif"><b>tuning efforts, many of which were done at a level of sophisti-</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif"><b>cation that would not be available to the average programmer.</b></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">Scala concise notation and powerful language features al-</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">lowed for the best optimization of code complexity.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif"><b>The Java version was probably the simplest to implement,</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">but the hardest to analyze for performance. Specifically the</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">effects around garbage collection were complicated and very</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">hard to tune. Since Scala runs on the JVM, it has the same</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">issues.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">Go offers interesting language features, which also allow</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
for a concise and standardized notation. The compilers for this</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">language are still immature, which reflects in both performance</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-size:13.2835px;font-family:sans-serif">
and binary sizes.<br><br></div> In other words, if your are claimg your programmers are not sophisticated enough to write a Java that performs well they have little chance of writing c++ that performs well according to google.<br>
<br>Any believe it or not there are many, many times when java performance.....get ready for your mind to explode .... beats c++!<br><br><a href="http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2008/07/performance-comparison-c-java-python-ruby-jython-jruby-groovy/">http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2008/07/performance-comparison-c-java-python-ruby-jython-jruby-groovy/</a><br>
<br><a href="http://scribblethink.org/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html">http://scribblethink.org/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html</a><br><br><font face="verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"><p>
The authors test some real numerical codes (FFT, Matrix factorization,
SOR, fluid solver, N-body)
on several architectures and compilers.
On Intel they found that the Java performance was very reasonable
compared to C (e.g, 20% slower), and that Java was faster than
at least one C compiler (KAI compiler on Linux).
</p><p>
The authors conclude, "On Intel Pentium hardware,
especially with Linux,
<b>the performance gap is small enough
to be of little or no concern</b> to programmers." <br></p><p>But please keep going on about all your anecdotal facts about how slow you think Java is even in the face of the overwhelming evidence that says you are wrong. <br>
</p><p><br></p></font><br></div></div></div></div>