From ike Thu Apr 1 03:16:16 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:16:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing In-Reply-To: <004501c4174d$084d2290$0600a8c0@olympus> References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net><20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net> <20040331123909.1f873114@delinux.abwatley.com> <004501c4174d$084d2290$0600a8c0@olympus> Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks everybody for posting such good info! On Mar 31, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > If anyone else has any info, please spread the word... Another to add to this thread: http://worldpay.com I got this recommendation from a trusted colleague at PyCon last week, (http://pycon.org) He runs http:zopemag.com and http://www.pyzine.com , and he's a Germany-based company, with half of his paying subscribers and customers in the states- the rest all over the world. With that, international payment simplicity is important for him, and he raved about how good the worldpay gateway system handles exchange rate currency; with the ability to stabilize prices dynamically in the currency of a given locale. i.e.: if you have a subscription/product which you want to offer at a set rate abroad, you can set the prices abroad, and they do the conversion to the dollar (or your local currency) automatically at the time of purchase. -- With that, I'm evaluating worldpay for our small isp, as about 40% of our clients are abroad, so this is currently the gateway that's winning for us. With that, I'll keep this thread posted as we continue to settle our solution. Best, .ike From lists Thu Apr 1 13:54:44 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:54:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] System 9 consulting.. anyone? In-Reply-To: <20040401171734.P48674@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20040401171734.P48674@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20040401185416.S49055@zoraida.natserv.net> Anyone looking to do consulting helping someone with a System 9, Apple, Laptop? Don't have details. Got a call from someone I was trying to do a web site for. He said his girfriend's laptop was having problems and if I knew of anyone that may be willing to help them. From george Fri Apr 2 12:35:04 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:35:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] future meetings Message-ID: after next wednesday's apple meeting, we have some more talks planned. . .finally getting ahead on this part. . . may will be marc spitzer and others on bsd consulting. if anyone else does bsd consulting for a living, and wants to take part as a speaker, please contact me. june will be our very own ike on hacking your ibook. if you have any contributions for the speakers, you can contact them via this list. . . the summer should include robert watson of trusted bsd, michael lucas of onlamp, etc. check out the future meetings section of nycbug.org g From jromero Fri Apr 2 14:24:01 2004 From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:24:01 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wed meeting question Message-ID: <658359aadd2a764399f225d9150c5d8a@romero3000.com> Is anyone recording next meeting by any chance???? Next meeing falls on Passover holiday. From george Fri Apr 2 14:41:21 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:41:21 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wed meeting question In-Reply-To: <658359aadd2a764399f225d9150c5d8a@romero3000.com> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Jeronimo Romero >Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 2:24 PM >To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: [nycbug-talk] wed meeting question > > >Is anyone recording next meeting by any chance???? >Next meeing falls on Passover holiday. Yes, Ike will be taping it. . . We'll announce to the list once it is up, in addition to Roland's cgd meeting. g From george Fri Apr 2 14:47:37 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:47:37 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Usenix Message-ID: Spoke to Peter Mui from Usenix about the upcoming Usenix in Boston this summer. Details of Usenix are on the www site under future events. For those who don't know, Usenix is *the* event for FOSS Unix. There will be one day focused on BSD, plus other days covering topics from Linux to Security. If anyone is interested, please check out the details on their www site. If we register and get a number of NYCBUG members, we can get user groups discounts on the pricing. Peter is going to be sending me out the brochures, which we'll hopefully have for the next meeting. More details to follow in the near future. g From ike Fri Apr 2 17:55:52 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:55:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wed meeting question In-Reply-To: <658359aadd2a764399f225d9150c5d8a@romero3000.com> References: <658359aadd2a764399f225d9150c5d8a@romero3000.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeromimo, On Apr 2, 2004, at 2:24 PM, Jeronimo Romero wrote: > > Is anyone recording next meeting by any chance???? > Next meeing falls on Passover holiday. Yes, I'll be there and taping, and Pete has again generously donated tapes. Also, I'm also going to try to make last month's meeting available for download soon-ish, but it didn't turn out so hot... (lessons learned for this time :) Best, Isaac From george Sat Apr 3 22:35:34 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:35:34 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: NYC BSD User Group Message-ID: Apple Store for meetings as of July 7th. . . >-----Original Message----- >From: SoHo Theater [mailto:sohotheater at apple.com] >Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:12 PM >To: george at sddi.net >Subject: Re: NYC BSD User Group > >Thanks George! This is great... exactly what I needed. Email me with >any questions or concerns regarding the Theater space. If you have any >special needs or requests, please let me know. > >Adam > >On Apr 2, 2004, at 2:20 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> >>> I'm happy to book the first Wednesday of each month from July on. >>> Unfortunately our store closes at 8:00 p.m. so the meeting >>> must wrap at >>> that time. You may begin as early as 5:30 p.m. or as late >as 7:00 p.m. >>> but must end by 8:00 p.m. I can grant you 15-20 minutes to >>> clean-up and >>> clear out, but beyond that, there's nothing I can do. This is for >>> security reasons. I hope this is OK. I apologize for any >inconvenience >>> to you or your group. If possible, please send me a >>> description of your >>> organization along with a brief summery of what traditionally takes >>> place at one of your gathers. I will use this information in our >>> store's printed calendar of events and website >>> (www.apple.com/retail/soho). Hopefully we can draw some new >>> people into >>> the store to join your membership. Thank you! >> >> Understood on the time issue. . .we'll make our meetings earlier. >> >> Let's say 6:15 pm to 8 pm. . .first Wednesday of the month, >starting in >> July. >> >> Our meetings are usually a 30" or so presentation with discussion >> afterwards. You can find out more at www.nycbug.org >> >> Descr: >> >> There are BSD UNIX (Berkeley Software Distribution) users of one >> variant >> or another at every corner of the globe. We look to bring together >> FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Darwin, OpenDarwin and Mac OS X users in a >> common space on a regular basis. >> >> There are two NYCBUG goals: >> >> * To provide a forum for regular users of the BSD family. >> * To provide a bridge to technical users interested in expanding >> their knowledge of the BSD family. >> >> We meet on the first Wednesday of each month to listen to and discuss >> presentations on the *BSD family and discuss issues affecting *BSD >> Users >> today. We also sponsor local *BSD Install Fests and assist the *BSD >> family in various ways. >> >> If you're interested, check out our website at http://www.nycbug.org, >> join our talk mailing list at http://lists.nycbug.org, or >check out our >> next meeting. >> >> Thanks again Adam. ..we really appreciate it. . . This is great news. . .although we'll have to get a plan together for May and June. . . g From pete Sun Apr 4 12:43:58 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:43:58 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: NYC BSD User Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40703B4E.2070006@nomadlogic.org> woo hoo! thanks for setting this all up george! -pete G. Rosamond wrote: >Apple Store for meetings as of July 7th. . . > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: SoHo Theater [mailto:sohotheater at apple.com] >>Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:12 PM >>To: george at sddi.net >>Subject: Re: NYC BSD User Group >> >>Thanks George! This is great... exactly what I needed. Email me with >>any questions or concerns regarding the Theater space. If you have any >>special needs or requests, please let me know. >> >>Adam >> >>On Apr 2, 2004, at 2:20 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: >> >> >> >>>>I'm happy to book the first Wednesday of each month from July on. >>>>Unfortunately our store closes at 8:00 p.m. so the meeting >>>>must wrap at >>>>that time. You may begin as early as 5:30 p.m. or as late >>>> >>>> >>as 7:00 p.m. >> >> >>>>but must end by 8:00 p.m. I can grant you 15-20 minutes to >>>>clean-up and >>>>clear out, but beyond that, there's nothing I can do. This is for >>>>security reasons. I hope this is OK. I apologize for any >>>> >>>> >>inconvenience >> >> >>>>to you or your group. If possible, please send me a >>>>description of your >>>>organization along with a brief summery of what traditionally takes >>>>place at one of your gathers. I will use this information in our >>>>store's printed calendar of events and website >>>>(www.apple.com/retail/soho). Hopefully we can draw some new >>>>people into >>>>the store to join your membership. Thank you! >>>> >>>> >>>Understood on the time issue. . .we'll make our meetings earlier. >>> >>>Let's say 6:15 pm to 8 pm. . .first Wednesday of the month, >>> >>> >>starting in >> >> >>>July. >>> >>>Our meetings are usually a 30" or so presentation with discussion >>>afterwards. You can find out more at www.nycbug.org >>> >>>Descr: >>> >>>There are BSD UNIX (Berkeley Software Distribution) users of one >>>variant >>>or another at every corner of the globe. We look to bring together >>>FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Darwin, OpenDarwin and Mac OS X users in a >>>common space on a regular basis. >>> >>>There are two NYCBUG goals: >>> >>> * To provide a forum for regular users of the BSD family. >>> * To provide a bridge to technical users interested in expanding >>>their knowledge of the BSD family. >>> >>>We meet on the first Wednesday of each month to listen to and discuss >>>presentations on the *BSD family and discuss issues affecting *BSD >>>Users >>>today. We also sponsor local *BSD Install Fests and assist the *BSD >>>family in various ways. >>> >>>If you're interested, check out our website at http://www.nycbug.org, >>>join our talk mailing list at http://lists.nycbug.org, or >>> >>> >>check out our >> >> >>>next meeting. >>> >>>Thanks again Adam. ..we really appreciate it. . . >>> >>> > >This is great news. . .although we'll have to get a plan together for >May and June. . . > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > From tilly Sun Apr 4 13:37:32 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:37:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) Message-ID: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Hello I have been using linux for about 2 years now and i have been doing some research online but i am little confused on what BSD i should use. I am looking for running a server and i have heard many thing about Freebsd. Thanks for the Help Tilly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040404/838e83d6/attachment.html From scottro Sun Apr 4 13:52:33 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 13:52:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <20040404175233.GA14815@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 01:37:32PM -0400, Tilly wrote: > Hello > > I have been using linux for about 2 years now and i have been doing some > research online but i am little confused on what BSD i should use. I am looking > for running a server and i have heard many thing about Freebsd. Firstly, you should probably not post in html. (It's the default in Outlook Express, and can be fixed by going to tools=>options=>send.) Most *nix based lists frown upon it. :) Greg Lehey, author of "The Complete FreeBSD" once posted somewhere (FreeBSD forums?) one of the best answers to this question. He said that each BSD's slogan gave a good clue. FreeBSD. "The power to serve." Probably the easiest for a newcomer, has the widest selection of 3rd party software, probably the fastest (but that is COMPLETELY subjective) and perhaps most designed for being a server on an x86 platform. NetBSD. "Of course it runs NetBSD". Widest variety of supported platforms. If you have some obscure hardware, it might be the best fit. ~I~ think it's a bit less intuitive than FreeBSD, but intuitive often equals what you're used to using. OpenBSD. Err, I forget the exact slogan, but something like Only one security hole since its inception. The most secure of the BSDs. Possibly a bit harder to install, but again, that's subjective. (My biggest problem was finding a floppy that worked--floppy disk quality control seems to be a thing of the past). All three have installation guides and other docs on their website, so you might take a look there and see which one seems to suit you best. HTH -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: Hi, for those of you who just tuned in, everyone here is a crazy person. From dan Sun Apr 4 14:03:45 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:03:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <407015C1.24205.94C27112@localhost> On 4 Apr 2004 at 13:37, Tilly wrote: > I have been using linux for about 2 years now and i have been doing > some research online but i am little confused on what BSD i should > use. I am looking for running a server and i have heard many thing > about Freebsd. In short, and in general: FreeBSD - use this one if you're new. NetBSD - use this one if you have several different architectures which are not covered by FreeBSD OpenBSD - use this if you want to do some specialized networking which the other two won't do. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Sun Apr 4 14:12:17 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:12:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: ________________________________ From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Tilly Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 1:38 PM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) Hello I have been using linux for about 2 years now and i have been doing some research online but i am little confused on what BSD i should use. I am looking for running a server and i have heard many thing about Freebsd. Thanks for the Help Tilly Greetings Tilly and welcome to NYCBUG. Generally, FreeBSD is considered the easiest install, and it's getting easier and more configurable with each release through the install process. I assume you're running Intel-based i386 hardware, but if not, you should look at NetBSD. I hadn't installed it in several years, to be honest, but I found it remarkably simple and straight-forward. Why some find the *BSD's difficult to install, I don't quite understand, but the most important thing is to actually RTFM. So much technical documentation does seem useless and irrelevant, but the related BSD documentation for installs is nothing short of amazing. Start by browsing the documentation with the BSD you choose, and I think you'll find all of them quite straight-forward. And if you have any questions, feel free to post them to thist list. g From jschauma Sun Apr 4 15:10:01 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:10:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <20040404175233.GA14815@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040404175233.GA14815@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20040404191001.GB7236@netmeister.org> Scott Robbins wrote: > NetBSD. "Of course it runs NetBSD". Widest variety of supported > platforms. If you have some obscure hardware, it might be the best fit. I'd like to dispute the old myth or what might lead to the notion of NetBSD only being suitable for ``obscure hardware''. Many people seem to say ``Well, you should use NetBSD only if you have to, if you have i386 you should use FreeBSD''. Similarly, there's the notion of ``OpenBSD is secure, so if you want security, use OpenBSD''. I have no experience with either OpenBSD nor FreeBSD, but a fair amount of experience with NetBSD. It's of course perfectly suitable for non-``obscure'' hardware, runs equally well on my IBM T30 laptop as well as on any i386 desktop as well as on dual-processor high performance servers etc. It is secure out of the box, and just like with any other OS, the security after the first boot depends entirely on the person in charge of the box. I can only recommend it. ``Even'' for i386. -Jan -- As we all know, reality is a mess. Larry Wall -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040404/9857932f/attachment.bin From scottro Sun Apr 4 15:19:53 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:19:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <20040404191001.GB7236@netmeister.org> References: <001301c41a6b$8283b8f0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040404175233.GA14815@scottro11.homeunix.net> <20040404191001.GB7236@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040404191953.GA15220@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 03:10:01PM -0400, Jan Schaumann wrote: > Scott Robbins wrote: > > > NetBSD. "Of course it runs NetBSD". Widest variety of supported > > platforms. If you have some obscure hardware, it might be the best fit. > > I'd like to dispute the old myth or what might lead to the notion of > NetBSD only being suitable for ``obscure hardware''. Many people seem > to say ``Well, you should use NetBSD only if you have to, if you have > i386 you should use FreeBSD''. Similarly, there's the notion of > ``OpenBSD is secure, so if you want security, use OpenBSD''. Heh, sorry if it sounded as if I were putting down NetBSD. I like it very much, and have often used it as desktop. I tend, these days, to stick a bit more with FreeBSD because I'm so used to it. I like NetBSD enough so that I put up a page for myself and a few friends about NetBSD for the FreeBSD user at http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/netbsd.html I'm not a programmer, but I am told by one programming friend that NetBSD has cleaner code. (I have no idea if that's true or not though.) -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: You're a vampire. Oh, I'm sorry. Was that an offensive term? Should I say undead American? From george Sun Apr 4 15:22:18 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 15:22:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <20040404191001.GB7236@netmeister.org> Message-ID: >Scott Robbins wrote: > >> NetBSD. "Of course it runs NetBSD". Widest variety of supported >> platforms. If you have some obscure hardware, it might be >the best fit. > >I'd like to dispute the old myth or what might lead to the notion of >NetBSD only being suitable for ``obscure hardware''. Many people seem >to say ``Well, you should use NetBSD only if you have to, if you have >i386 you should use FreeBSD''. Similarly, there's the notion of >``OpenBSD is secure, so if you want security, use OpenBSD''. > >I have no experience with either OpenBSD nor FreeBSD, but a fair amount >of experience with NetBSD. It's of course perfectly suitable for >non-``obscure'' hardware, runs equally well on my IBM T30 >laptop as well >as on any i386 desktop as well as on dual-processor high performance >servers etc. It is secure out of the box, and just like with any other >OS, the security after the first boot depends entirely on the person in >charge of the box. > >I can only recommend it. ``Even'' for i386. I was waiting for this. . . I think Jan has a very valid point. . .NetBSD is often dismissed as being *only* about portability. . .and I, for one, admit to falling into this notion. NetBSD was my first BSD install back in 1999, and I spend most of my time with Open and Free since. And I think that for most BSD hackers, the majority are of the Free-Open hybrid type. When I did do a Net install again recently, I was amazed at the simplicity of install. The specifics of the security debate, namely of Net v Open, I don't know enough specifics about, but I am aware that some degree of personalism has crept into the debates. It's clear to me, however, that with security, eg, OpenBSD has set a tone for not just the other BSD's, but also beyond. And I'm not just referring to the recent adoption of "secure by default" by MS. The beauty of having three main separate projects is about a de facto division of labor, but the progress is not exclusive. You can make a FreeBSD box *almost* as secure as an OpenBSD one, I'd argue. That does come back to the person in charge of the box, as Jan noted. One problem that NetBSD does face is publicity, particularly versus the other BSD's. Free is clearly the most popular, and Open has enough publicity based on controversies as much as technical innovations. I agree it is time to give NetBSD its due respect, which I hope NYCBUG will continue to do. Our second meeting was on NetBSD, but I think by the end of the summer, we should look at a funky, NetBSD install fest, as its strengths are often overshadowed by the press of the other two BSD's. I believe I am like many others, who have heard the argument about NetBSD security, but let's put this discussion out in the open. It would be a great meeting topic. But it's not odd that NetBSD is 'button-holed' into being viewed solely for its portability by others. . .I mean, look at the web site. . ."of course it runs on NetBSD". . . g From tilly Sun Apr 4 18:28:02 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thanks For the Support Message-ID: <008301c41a94$1763e080$6301a8c0@TILLY> Hello Well sorry i left out a few details. I either going to run thios bsd on a 600 mghz celeron or a P3 of some sort. I am currently using gentoo linux (stage 1 install), and that is pretty hard to install for the first. I think i am going to go with freebsd and experiment with other BSD's from their. Now if i am going to run this on a server (semi high traffic) how secure is free bsd with a default install and how hard would it take to secure it even more. Tilly From george Mon Apr 5 00:34:01 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:34:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apache dev? Message-ID: Sorry. . .but. . . I can't remember your name. . .but you are an Apache maintainer who was at the LWE bof and the first NYCBUG meeting on OpenBSD security. . . shoot me an email. . .offline. . . g From lists Mon Apr 5 12:32:02 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:32:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] from the Library Message-ID: <20040405123202.656ec24f@delinux.abwatley.com> Begin forwarded message: Subject: from publisher Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall PTR > Addison-Wesley has just published the latest book by John Terpstra, > Samba-Team guru!! Terpstra's latest book is titled Samba-3 By Example: > Practical Exercises to Succssful Deployment (ISBN 0131472216), which is > the perfect complementary follow-up to his first book (Nov., 2003), "The > Official Samba-3 HOWTO & Reference Guide". > To learn more immediately, you can visit Terpstra's homepage: > www.informit.com/terpstra > > **ON THE PRESSES**: > > PUBBING APRIL 15: Prentice Hall PTR will publish the latest book by Arnold > Robbins, well-known for his role as maintainer of the GNU awk (a.k.a > "gawk" language), titled "Linux Programming By Example: The Fundamentals". > (ISBN 0131429647) Early reviews of this book include: "This is an > excellent introduction to Linux programming. The topics are well chosen > and lucidly presented. I learned things myself, especially about > internationalization, and I've been at this for quite a while." > -Chet Ramey, Coauthor and Maintainer of the Bash shell > > PUBBING APRIL 23: "The book you grew up with, has grown up too!" Marc > Rochkind's acclaimed text, "Advanced UNIX Programming", (ISBN 0131411543) > first published in 1985, has been nearly completely rewritten by Rochkind, > himself, to be updated with all the latest information on Linux, Darwin, > MAC OS X and standardization. Addison-Wesley Professional Computing Series > will soon publish this Second Edition of "AUP", which promises to retain > its status as a true classic. > > PUBBING APRIL 23: CALLING ALL MAC HACKS: Another Second Edition of a > former bestseller is about to publish! Aaron Hillegass' Second Edition of > "Cocoa Programming for MAC OS X", is updated for Xcode and Mac OS X 10.3 > and new chapters in this second edition include coverage of OpenGL, > AppleScriptability, the undo manager, creating frameworks, and a brief > introduction to using GNUstep on Linux. > > PUBBING APRIL 23: Understanding the Linux Virtual Memory Manager by Mel > Gorman will describe Virtual Memory in unprecedented detail, presenting > both theoretical foundations and a line-by-line source code commentary. It > systematically covers everything from physical memory description to > out-of-memory management. A CD-ROM packaged with the book contains the > author's new toolkit for exploring VM, including a browsable version of > kernel source, CodeViz call graph generator; and VMRegress for analyzing > and benchmarking VM. Also includes all code commentary in HTML, PDF, and > plain text formats. > > -- --- -- --- From george Mon Apr 5 15:31:29 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:31:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday Meeting Message-ID: Grant from O'Reilly and possibly a rep from NoStarch Press will be at our meeting Wednesday. They'll give a short spiel before the meeting. . .and also have some tshirts and books. Unfortunately, the Dru Lavigne's book BSD Hacks won't be released until May 15, but at least we won't have any fistfights. . . ;-) See everyone at 7 pm. g From ike Mon Apr 5 20:06:56 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:06:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <407015C1.24205.94C27112@localhost> References: <407015C1.24205.94C27112@localhost> Message-ID: <50F7910A-875E-11D8-A2A3-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> On Apr 4, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Dan Langille wrote: > FreeBSD - use this one if you're new. > > NetBSD - use this one if you have several different architectures > which are not covered by FreeBSD > > OpenBSD - use this if you want to do some specialized networking > which the other two won't do. > On Apr 4, 2004, at 3:22 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > I think Jan has a very valid point. . .NetBSD is often dismissed as > being *only* about portability. . .and I, for one, admit to falling > into > this notion. I'm a pretty mac-heavy UNIX user and developer, but I'd throw in that consistency is excellent between ALL the BSD's; in use, in userland, and in a sort of 'standardizing' idealogy- much is common among ALL unixes which are BSD, coming from a deep legacy in UNIX. This contrasts a lot of Linux distros, where there is more extreme diversity in the design and use of the system- (i.e. Mandrake compared to Gentoo), which often tailors the OS to a more focused idea or community. A fine article about the BSD's, http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=31573,00.asp which can be summed up by this excerpt from it: "What is BSD? If you ask a typical computer "expert," he or she is likely to reply (incorrectly!) that it is "an operating system." The correct answer, however, is more complex than that. BSD is -- among other things -- a culture, a philosophy, and a growing collection of software, most (though not all) of which is available for free and with source code." That's my .02 Rocket, .ike From ike Mon Apr 5 20:12:35 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:12:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thanks For the Support In-Reply-To: <008301c41a94$1763e080$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <008301c41a94$1763e080$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <1B5DF8C4-875F-11D8-A2A3-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Hi Tilly, On Apr 4, 2004, at 6:28 PM, Tilly wrote: > Now if i am going to run this on a server (semi high traffic) how > secure is > free bsd with a default install and how hard would it take to secure > it even > more. Ah, it's extremely secure. OpenBSD is designed first and foremost with security in mind, but all the BSD's are extremely secure by design- and a lot of web hosting runs on FreeBSD for that matter. Rocket, .ike From ike Mon Apr 5 16:13:32 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:13:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: NYC BSD User Group In-Reply-To: <40703B4E.2070006@nomadlogic.org> References: <40703B4E.2070006@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Apr 4, 2004, at 12:43 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > woo hoo! thanks for setting this all up george! > > -pete Major seconds to that!!! George should be drinking for free after any meeting at the new diggs imho Rocket- .ike From george Mon Apr 5 22:20:15 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:20:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Deadly.org Message-ID: it looks like the main OBSD news site is really gone. . .it wasn't just an April Fool's joke. . . thoughts? john b (nylug/nycbug) is querying jose there. . .hopefully some nycbug members can assist in continuing the site. . .it's a real asset to the *bsd community. . . g From JBrown Tue Apr 6 08:55:44 2004 From: JBrown (Brown, James Jim) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:55:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday Meeting Message-ID: Hi, Can you please repost the meeting details? Thanks, jpb === > -----Original Message----- > From: G. Rosamond [mailto:george at sddi.net] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:31 PM > To: talk at lists.nycbug.org > Cc: 'Grant Kikkert' > Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday Meeting > > > Grant from O'Reilly and possibly a rep from NoStarch Press will be at > our meeting Wednesday. They'll give a short spiel before the > meeting. . > .and also have some tshirts and books. > > Unfortunately, the Dru Lavigne's book BSD Hacks won't be > released until > May 15, but at least we won't have any fistfights. . . ;-) > > See everyone at 7 pm. > > g > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ThruPoint, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040406/bd9e9ffd/attachment.html From george Tue Apr 6 10:41:14 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:41:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ________________________________ From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Brown, James (Jim) Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:56 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday Meeting Hi, Can you please repost the meeting details? Thanks, jpb === www.nycbug.org/futureevents.html it's all there. . . or you can check the list archives from lists.nycbug.org g From joshmccormack Tue Apr 6 11:11:48 2004 From: joshmccormack (joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:11:48 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: <50F7910A-875E-11D8-A2A3-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > "What is BSD? If you ask a typical computer "expert," he or she is > likely to reply (incorrectly!) that it is "an operating system." The > correct answer, however, is more complex than that. BSD is -- among > other things -- a culture, a philosophy, and a growing collection of > software, most (though not all) of which is available for free and with > source code." > > That's my .02 > > Rocket, > .ike excellent point. And b/c it's a whole system, more even than a distro, you can really expect everything to work, but usually you seem to have to expect new features and capabilities to be added at a pace that might make even Debian fans impatient. Josh From pete Tue Apr 6 11:16:08 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:16:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New to BSD (dont know which one to get) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4072C9B8.7060002@nomadlogic.org> joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com wrote: >On Mon, 5 Apr 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > > > > >>"What is BSD? If you ask a typical computer "expert," he or she is >>likely to reply (incorrectly!) that it is "an operating system." The >>correct answer, however, is more complex than that. BSD is -- among >>other things -- a culture, a philosophy, and a growing collection of >>software, most (though not all) of which is available for free and with >>source code." >> >>That's my .02 >> >>Rocket, >>.ike >> >> > >excellent point. And b/c it's a whole system, more even than a distro, you can really expect everything to work, but usually you seem to have to expect new features and capabilities to be added at a pace that might make even Debian fans impatient. > > i'm not too sure about that, i guess it depends on what features you are looking for ;^) CARP is a pretty new feature for openBSD, and I would not expect to see something like that in gnu/linux for some time. and statefull firewalls is something that is also relativly new to gnu/linux as well. i'm a big fan of the right tool for the right job, and fortunatly most of the BSD's have been the right tool at the right time for me ;) -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Tue Apr 6 12:21:26 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:21:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: NYCBUG & deadly archives Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: OBSDJ - Christophe VG [mailto:obsdj at christophe.vg] >Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:19 PM >To: george at sddi.net >Subject: Re: NYCBUG & deadly archives > >On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 17:33, G. Rosamond wrote: >> Great to see there's a quick replacement for deadly.org. . .pretty >> shocking the site is gone, but glad you guys have stepped up to the >> task. > >Well, what started as a "counter"-joke turns out to be a new >"mission". > >> We are also happy to host the deadly archives, but you guys are the >> logical place for them. > >We're currently mailing back-and-forth with Jose to see if we can get >the archives and integrate them in our site. > >> If there's anything we can do to assist, please don't hesitate to >> contact us. . . > >That's a great offer. I'm currently trying to get a basic engine in >place to serve articles and discussion fora, which can be attached to >articles. I have already a huge todo list with lots of features. My >first goal is to have the bare minimum up and running, hopefully >including the archives of the late deadly.org. > >I guess the best way to help is to send and urge people to send in >articles so we can get the information stream up and running again. If >you see errors (typo's, real lingual mistakes, engine hiccups ...) >please send me an email. And if you have any graphics/design skills >(which I don't :) ) feel free to propose new CSS sheets, graphical >elements, ... I've currently used images.google.com to find me a set of >icons to use around the site (see next update), but I guess those and a >proper logo would come in handy. I'll probably put this "request for >graphics" on the site soon. > >For now, I'm just trying to get everything on track. But if I run into >something specific where you could help me out I'll send you an email; >thanks again for the offer. > >regards, >Christophe VG > >PS I haven't included all CC, I guess you can distribute my reply to he >right persons > > From george Tue Apr 6 18:03:20 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:03:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: NYC BSD User Group Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: SoHo Theater [mailto:sohotheater at apple.com] >Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:37 PM >To: george at sddi.net >Subject: Re: NYC BSD User Group > >You are confirmed for July 7th from 5:30 - 8:00 p.m. (and going >forward). Thanks! > >-Adam > >Adam Rackoff >Theater, Studio & Events Coordinator >Apple Computer, Inc. >SoHo >103 Prince Street >New York, NY 10012 >212.226.3126 Ext. 641 >arackoff at apple.com > >On Apr 3, 2004, at 10:35 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: SoHo Theater [mailto:sohotheater at apple.com] >>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:12 PM >>> To: george at sddi.net >>> Subject: Re: NYC BSD User Group >>> >>> Thanks George! This is great... exactly what I needed. Email me with >>> any questions or concerns regarding the Theater space. If >you have any >>> special needs or requests, please let me know. >> >> Couldn't thank you more Peter. . .So we're set as of July 7th. . .? >> >> 5:30 pm to 8 pm. . . >> >> We'll be neat and clean and courteous. . .of course. >> YIPPEEEEEE From pete Tue Apr 6 18:15:04 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:15:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Samba PDC Message-ID: <40732BE8.5040407@nomadlogic.org> hey list, i'm working on upgrading an aging WinNT 4 server to a samba server. i would like the samba server to act as replacement to our NT 4 PDC. The one issue I'm working on is this: is it possible for a windows 2003 server to authenticate and play happily with a samba PDC? win xp clients seem to be happy with our samba servers, should i expect similar usability with 2003 server? cheers, pete wright -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Tue Apr 6 18:27:43 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:27:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Samba PDC In-Reply-To: <40732BE8.5040407@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Pete Wright >Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:15 PM >To: NYC Bug List >Subject: [nycbug-talk] Samba PDC > >hey list, > i'm working on upgrading an aging WinNT 4 server to a samba >server. >i would like the samba server to act as replacement to our NT 4 PDC. >The one issue I'm working on is this: is it possible for a >windows 2003 >server to authenticate and play happily with a samba PDC? win xp >clients seem to be happy with our samba servers, should i >expect similar >usability with 2003 server? > >cheers, > pete wright I'm going to be delving into this issue for a client in the near future. . . here's some info. . . http://us1.samba.org/samba/docs/man/domain-member.html#id2901406 Apparently, it can authenticate to the samba PDC. . . g From lists Thu Apr 8 09:04:01 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:04:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Deadly.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040408090401.6bf5b41c@delinux.abwatley.com> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:20:15 -0400 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > it looks like the main OBSD news site is really gone. . .it wasn't > just an April Fool's joke. . . > > g > .. have you seen this yet? OBSDJ - your resource for all OpenBSD news http://obsdj.baselabs.org/ ( from his ABOUT page ) When a joke becomes ... kind off serious ... On April 1, 2004 the maintainers of deadly.org apparantly decided to terminate their involvement in spreading the news regarding OpenBSD related topics. At that point, I responded with an April fools' joke in reply to their at that moment believed to be April Fools' joke. After a few days, it seemed that their decision was a reality and deadly.org was no more. So I decided to pick up where they left off, and offer some of my spare time and resources to people who still wanted to provide content for the topic. This site will grow on a by-popular-demand basis. Step 1 is to publish articles again, next steps might include comments, archives,... We'll see as we move along. This site will be a joined effort by all who want to contribute. If you want to help out, you can pick up any of these roles: provide content by submitting a post through the submission form, help out with the design of the site by proposing better CSS stylesheets or just submit ideas and suggestions regarding how the site might be improved in any way. You can contact us regarding this site through the submission form, or by email to obsdj at christophe.vg. -- --- From pete Thu Apr 8 09:49:34 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:49:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Ryan McBride Interview Message-ID: <4075586E.3070805@nomadlogic.org> interview on kerneltrap.org with Ryan McBride, primary dev. on CARP. http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2873 -pete From dan Thu Apr 8 11:22:53 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Ryan McBride Interview In-Reply-To: <4075586E.3070805@nomadlogic.org> References: <4075586E.3070805@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040408112235.I30037@xeon.unixathome.org> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004, Pete Wright wrote: > interview on kerneltrap.org with Ryan McBride, primary dev. on CARP. > > http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2873 *blantent plug* Ryan will be at BSDCan. -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Thu Apr 8 13:29:25 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:29:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We would like to thank you all again for the excellent meeting for NYCBUG last night. Edward's talk was very insightful, much discussion continued around the topics late into the night. We look forward to continuing this great relationship between Apple and NYCBUG. Ed: If you get a chance, we'd love to put the slides online under our "Past Meetings" section. g From george Thu Apr 8 13:38:33 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:38:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Deadly.org In-Reply-To: <20040408090401.6bf5b41c@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of michael >Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 9:04 AM >To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Deadly.org > >On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:20:15 -0400 >"G. Rosamond" wrote: > >> it looks like the main OBSD news site is really gone. . .it wasn't >> just an April Fool's joke. . . >> >> g >> > >.. have you seen this yet? > > OBSDJ - your resource for all OpenBSD news >http://obsdj.baselabs.org/ > Yes, and have contact with the guy behind OBSDJ. Looks like they are going to get the deadly.org archives. They need some help from design people. . .so if any one can help out, contact him. . . g From pete Thu Apr 8 16:12:44 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 16:12:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] First MacOSX Trojan out there Message-ID: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> in light of the BUG last night thought this was interesting. http://www.macnn.com/news/24162 http://www.intego.com/news/pr40.html altho it seems it seems odd that the mac security outfit that annouced the trojan site runs asp ;^) http://www.intego.com/home.asp -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ray Thu Apr 8 20:35:02 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:35:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] First MacOSX Trojan out there In-Reply-To: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040409003502.GA17907@cybertron.cyth.net> On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 04:12:44PM -0400, Pete Wright wrote: > altho it seems it seems odd that the mac security outfit that annouced > the trojan site runs asp ;^) > > http://www.intego.com/home.asp How else is it going to protect itself against Mac OS X exploits? -Ray- From pete Thu Apr 8 20:49:08 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:49:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] First MacOSX Trojan out there In-Reply-To: <20040409003502.GA17907@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> <20040409003502.GA17907@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <4075F304.1070508@nomadlogic.org> Ray wrote: >On Thu, Apr 08, 2004 at 04:12:44PM -0400, Pete Wright wrote: > > >>altho it seems it seems odd that the mac security outfit that annouced >>the trojan site runs asp ;^) >> >>http://www.intego.com/home.asp >> >> > >How else is it going to protect itself against Mac OS X exploits? > >-Ray- > > good point they are prolly using OpenXP or something ;) -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From salomo3 Thu Apr 8 20:53:31 2004 From: salomo3 (Joel Salomon) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] First MacOSX Trojan out there In-Reply-To: <4075F304.1070508@nomadlogic.org> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org><20040409003502.GA17907@cybertron.cyth.net> <4075F304.1070508@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <4002.199.98.20.221.1081472011.squirrel@wish> Pete Wright said: > good point they are prolly using OpenXP or something ;) Wiiiiiide open ;-) http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000810&mode=classic --Joel From lists Thu Apr 8 23:35:05 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:35:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] check for root kit In-Reply-To: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040408233505.2213f1a5@genoverly.com> Newsforge article about chkrootkit alternative: http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/04/05/1929215.shtml?tid=78&tid=82 -- From jesse Fri Apr 9 01:24:00 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 01:24:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] check for root kit In-Reply-To: <20040408233505.2213f1a5@genoverly.com> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org> <20040408233505.2213f1a5@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <1BC8E1D8-89E6-11D8-842D-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> Looks like it's of immediate use. btw - to get the output of a shell script in applescript set inet4address to do shell script "perl ~/whatip.pl" say (inet4address) as string using "Veronica" On Apr 8, 2004, at 11:35 PM, michael wrote: > Newsforge article about chkrootkit alternative: > http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/04/05/1929215.shtml? > tid=78&tid=82 > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From george Fri Apr 9 06:42:26 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:42:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Max OS X and BSD Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org >[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org] On Behalf Of John Von Essen >Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:47 PM >To: freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org >Subject: Max OS X and BSD > >I need to get something cleared up in my head because it is driving me >nuts. It has to do with the relationship between Mac OS X and BSD. > >For starters, I am an "old" NeXT user. I used NeXTSTEP 3.x and >OPENSTEP >4.2. I remember back in 97, Apple acquired NeXT software and thus >acquired the OPENSTEP 4.2 operating system. At the time I was running >OPENSTEP 4.2 (along with the ill-fated WebObjects) on a >Pentium II box, >and running NEXTSTEP 3.3 User on a NeXTStation Mono Slab. Around that >time, Apple started work on rhapsody - their next generation OS. I was >under the assumption that rhapsody (and later darwin) was basically an >OPENSTEP derivative with a brand new graphics layer. Its obvious to >anybody who uses OS X currently, and who used to use OPENSTEP 4.2. In >OS X, the app NetInfo is strikingly similar to the NetInfo app in >NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. A ps -ax lists a whole bunch of processes that are >also strikingly similar between the two. The there are things like >WebObject which came from OPENSTEP 4.2, Objective-C framework >which was >present back in NEXTSTEP versions. > >I was under the impression that OS X was a derivative of OPENSTEP - >which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT BSD and NOT System V, >rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a BSD kernel derivative). >Apple scraped the graphics layer and made their own. And this is where >the BSD connection comes in, Apple scraped OPENSTEP's TCP/IP and opted >to use the one from FreeBSD - which is the best! > >The problem is I hear things from people, and I read things from >prominent sources, that completely make no sense. Things like: > >OS X is FreeBSD >OS X is BSD Unix >Apple uses the FreeBSD kernel > >And today I got a security email from WatchGuard (the crapy firewall >people) with the statement: > >"With OS X, Apple changed the core of its operating system to >a version >of >Unix known as BSD." > >Then colleges of mine read that, and they come to me and say, >"Hey, did >ya hear? Apple uses FreeBSD" > >Its driving me nuts, when are people going to get things straight? Or >am I completely off base here?! > >-john > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe at freebsd.org" > From george Fri Apr 9 06:47:32 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 06:47:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] deadly. . . Message-ID: apparently it's not obsd journal. . .but another alternative. . . http://www.benzedrine.cx/deadly/cgi From pete Fri Apr 9 09:35:05 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:35:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] First MacOSX Trojan out there In-Reply-To: <4002.199.98.20.221.1081472011.squirrel@wish> References: <4075B23C.2020506@nomadlogic.org><20040409003502.GA17907@cybertron.cyth.net> <4075F304.1070508@nomadlogic.org> <4002.199.98.20.221.1081472011.squirrel@wish> Message-ID: <4076A689.7010507@nomadlogic.org> Joel Salomon wrote: >Pete Wright said: > > >>good point they are prolly using OpenXP or something ;) >> >> > >Wiiiiiide open ;-) >http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000810&mode=classic > > > heh that's great! thanks for making me spit my morning coffe on my desk :) -pete >--Joel >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Fri Apr 9 20:21:57 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:21:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Daemon News Message-ID: The new print issue of DN should be here for the next meeting. I want to encourage everyone in NYCBUG to think about an article topic, and consider contributing for the next issue or for the EZine at http://ezine.daemonnews.org. Topics can range from anything basic like a simple how-to, to more sophisticated topics, like Roland's meeting on NetBSD's cgd. It's a great way to assist new and experienced users in the *BSD world. And I think it's clear that particularly since NYCBUG is in NYC, that we're a vibrant ug, we can have an larger impact beyond the borders of the five boroughs. Chris (DN editor who is cc'd) and I would be happy to discuss any topics you are considering if you have any questions. g From trish Sat Apr 10 12:05:32 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Max OS X and BSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040410120244.T5629@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Fri, 9 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > >Then colleges of mine read that, and they come to me and say, > >"Hey, did > >ya hear? Apple uses FreeBSD" > > > >Its driving me nuts, when are people going to get things straight? Or > >am I completely off base here?! > > > >-john > > The straight answer is its Mach 4 with a FreeBSD/NetBSD userland, and some FreeBSD kernel stuff ported as modules to Mach. This then brings the comparison to NeXTStep, which was in fact Mach 3 with a BSD4.4 userland.... so the answer is "Yes, it is a BSD relative, and shares a lot with FreeBSD" and "Yes it is the next generation of NeXTStep, and shares a lot of the same technology and code." I hope this helps. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From ike Sun Apr 11 04:22:03 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 04:22:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Max OS X and BSD In-Reply-To: <20040410120244.T5629@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20040410120244.T5629@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <50172B8E-8B91-11D8-B28A-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Rockin' answer Trish, Thouht I'd throw in a -v flag to this thread: On Apr 10, 2004, at 12:05 PM, Trish Lynch wrote: > so the answer is "Yes, it is a BSD relative, and shares a lot with > FreeBSD" At the last meeting, the presenting Apple engineer showed this amazing chart, which clearly plots the family history of *NIX, including MacOSX: http://www.levenez.com/unix/ > and "Yes it is the next generation of NeXTStep, and shares a lot > of the same technology and code." At the end of the following FAQ from apple: http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/darwin/faq.html It states some interesting tid-bits about why Apple works with the *BSD's, and I thought i'd paste it below for posterity. Rocket- .ike --snip-- Darwin and BSD Q. Why is Darwin based on BSD UNIX? A. There are several reasons for this. The first one is historical. Mac OS X draws a lot of its code base from a system called OPENSTEP, created by NeXT Software, which Apple bought in 1997. OPENSTEP and its predecessor, NEXTSTEP, were based on 4.3 BSD. BSD has always had a rich academic developer community behind it, and while much of the original BSD UNIX was not free, its source code was available to anyone who obtained a license for it. The wide development community that arose to support BSD contributed to many of the ideas that drive today's open source community. That community also facilitated a great deal of research, including work to put BSD on Mach at Carnegie Mellon University-code that eventually found its way to NeXT and now to Apple. Second, BSD is widely respected as clean, robust, and maintainable code. There remains a strong developer community that knows the code base very well and continues the work started at UC Berkeley. In addition, the BSD license is very open, which has made it easy for us to leverage its compelling core technology to enhance the Mac OS. Best of all, as a result of making this choice, Apple is now an active participant in the BSD community. This allows us to make sure that the capabilities important to Mac users are added to BSD. Being part of the BSD community also gives us access to excellent peer review and keeps us on a path to adopt and contribute to open standards, the benefits of which are well known to our developers. The BSD community has been extremely supportive of Apple since we first approached NetBSD, FreeBSD, and others about doing a better job of sharing code. That happened even before we announced Darwin. Now we're pleased to have become an even more active participant in the community. Q. Where does Darwin fit into the BSD family? A. The purpose of Darwin is to provide the core system software for Mac OS X. It is not designed to be an alternative to other excellent BSD options such as FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. Darwin is simply BSD tweaked in ways we think will help Apple deliver the next great version of the Mac OS. We should note, however, that apart from a few architectural differences (such as our use of the Mach kernel), we try to keep Darwin as compatible as possible with FreeBSD (our BSD reference platform). Q. Does Darwin offer any benefits to someone who's already using another version of BSD? A. Yes, it does. Darwin drives Mac OS X, which we consider a compelling new operating system not only for existing Macintosh customers, but also for the BSD community and other UNIX users. Darwin is a great example of BSD running on the PowerPC platform. It offers a well-defined code base from a major computer manufacturer, as well as a really cool graphical user interface (Mac OS X). Q. Why did Apple decide to share all of its modifications with the BSD community? A. Although the BSD licenses don't require companies to post their sources, divergent code bases are very hard to maintain. We believe that the open source model is the most effective form of development for certain types of software. By pooling our expertise with the open source development community, we expect to improve the quality, performance, and feature set of our software. In addition, we realize that many developers enjoy working with open source software, and we want to give them the opportunity to use that kind of environment while they're creating solutions for Apple customers. Although many people think that the rather simple BSD license does little to protect the openness of the code, it has contributed significantly to Apple's ability to adapt the code for the benefit of Mac users. Its emphasis on sharing code has also heightened our own commitment to the open development process. --snip-- From lists Sun Apr 11 09:00:55 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 09:00:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wipe drive Message-ID: <20040411090055.7d808b65@genoverly.com> I was looking for a utility to securely wipe some old hard drives before disposal. I wanted a bootable CD that I could put in my bag with my other uilities for future use. I wanted a 'quick' option and a 'complete' option on the wipes... I am paranoid enough to wipe the drives, but, not always enough to let the wipe run for several days. I found this, http://dban.sourceforge.net/ >From the site: "Darik's Boot and Nuke ("DBAN") is a self-contained boot floppy that securely wipes the hard disks of most computers. DBAN will automatically and completely delete the contents of any hard disk that it can detect, which makes it an appropriate utility for bulk or emergency data destruction." My Results --------- box: Pentium Pro 200MHz, 8Gig SCSI drive (Western Digital WDE4360-1807A3) method: Quick (one pass of writing zeros) duration: 20 minutes method: Department of Defense Short Method duration: 45 minutes method: Gutmann (35 passes) duration: not enough patience conclusion: clean and easy to use, many choices for security levels Michael p.s. Does anybody know how to check on the data-be-gone part? -- From salomo3 Sun Apr 11 13:39:48 2004 From: salomo3 (Joel Salomon) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] wipe drive In-Reply-To: <20040411090055.7d808b65@genoverly.com> References: <20040411090055.7d808b65@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <4169.165.247.47.125.1081705188.squirrel@wish.cooper.edu> michael said: > I was looking for a utility to securely wipe some old hard drives before > disposal. For most, semi-secure (i.e. not national security / billion dollar secrets / organized crime) purposes, a simple dd /dev/sdC1 (or similar - I used something like this on Plan 9, translate to *BSD as needed) will suffice - and it's *much* faster. --Joel From george Sun Apr 11 22:07:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:07:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdcan In-Reply-To: <00b401c3c57d$46d95d20$ca0110ac@vinyl.tkvbp.com> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Kliment Andreev >Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 10:35 AM >To: General discussion >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] bsdcan > >> http://www.bsdcan.org/ >> >> i posted it on the www site. . . >> >> it's in may. . .anyone else interested in travelling up there? >> >> i guess we could figure out a carpool or group transportation. > > >I am in. Kliment: Setup a bsdcan list at lists.nycbug.org Am still planning to drive up. g From george Sun Apr 11 22:36:04 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:36:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Max OS X and BSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ed: This post is from the FreeBSD-advocacy list. . . But also a discussion here. . . g >-----Original Message----- >From: Edward Eigerman [mailto:eigerman at apple.com] >Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:47 AM >To: george at sddi.net >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: Max OS X and BSD > >So, OS X isn't BSD, it's Darwin. Darwin is a BSD derivative, >but likes to think of itself as it's own project. It does have >binary compatibility with BSD, to a large extent. System V is >not involved, that was the now gone and very occasionally >lamented A/UX. > >You sort of have to think of Darwin as the BSD kernel running >on top of the Mach Micro Kernel. So it is both BSD and Mach. >Mach is the core layer of a couple of OSs, but is only the >actual center of HURD, as far as I know. > >NextStep is the core of OS X, but BSD code has been >re-introduced with each revision. If you look at that horrible >family tree I put up in my presentation you'll see multiple >arrows showing code pollination coming over from other BSD >projects into OS X and Darwin. > >NetInfo is, for instance, a pure NeXT technology, but is now >supported in OS X as a legacy technology. We've moved to LDAP >as a directory service, but also support BSD flat file >directory services. > >So: > >OS X is FreeBSD. Primarily it is. It contains a lot of the >code of FreeBSD. There are also elements of NetBSD. All that >sits on top of Mach. What it really is is Darwin, a posix >compliant BSD derivative. But BSD binaries will usually >re-compile and execute and most of what you know about FreeBSD >(besides directory locations, which is not a small piece) does apply. > >OS X is BSD Unix. For most intents and purposes it is. It is >actually a separate project, called Darwin, but Darwin is >probably only slightly further from FreeBSD than NetBSD is, or >OpenBSD. It might be closer for all I know. Also, OS X is >posix compliant, but not posix certified. So you will only >ever hear Apple say that OS X is Unix-based. We don't legally >have the right to represent it as Unix. > >You are not completely off base, but the press and your >friends aren't either. > >Ed > >On Apr 9, 2004, at 6:42 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org] On >Behalf Of John Von Essen > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 11:47 PM > To: freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org > Subject: Max OS X and BSD > > I need to get something cleared up in my head >because it is driving me > nuts. It has to do with the relationship >between Mac OS X and BSD. > > For starters, I am an "old" NeXT user. I used >NeXTSTEP 3.x and > OPENSTEP > 4.2. I remember back in 97, Apple acquired NeXT >software and thus > acquired the OPENSTEP 4.2 operating system. At >the time I was running > OPENSTEP 4.2 (along with the ill-fated WebObjects) on a > Pentium II box, > and running NEXTSTEP 3.3 User on a NeXTStation >Mono Slab. Around that > time, Apple started work on rhapsody - their >next generation OS. I was > under the assumption that rhapsody (and later >darwin) was basically an > OPENSTEP derivative with a brand new graphics >layer. Its obvious to > anybody who uses OS X currently, and who used >to use OPENSTEP 4.2. In > OS X, the app NetInfo is strikingly similar to >the NetInfo app in > NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. A ps -ax lists a whole bunch >of processes that are > also strikingly similar between the two. The >there are things like > WebObject which came from OPENSTEP 4.2, >Objective-C framework > which was > present back in NEXTSTEP versions. > > I was under the impression that OS X was a >derivative of OPENSTEP - > which means from a kernel standpoint it is NOT >BSD and NOT System V, > rather it is a MACH kernel (which sort of is a >BSD kernel derivative). > Apple scraped the graphics layer and made their >own. And this is where > the BSD connection comes in, Apple scraped >OPENSTEP's TCP/IP and opted > to use the one from FreeBSD - which is the best! > > The problem is I hear things from people, and I >read things from > prominent sources, that completely make no >sense. Things like: > > OS X is FreeBSD > OS X is BSD Unix > Apple uses the FreeBSD kernel > > And today I got a security email from >WatchGuard (the crapy firewall > people) with the statement: > > "With OS X, Apple changed the core of its >operating system to > a version > of > Unix known as BSD." > > Then colleges of mine read that, and they come >to me and say, > "Hey, did > ya hear? Apple uses FreeBSD" > > Its driving me nuts, when are people going to >get things straight? Or > am I completely off base here?! > > -john > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org mailing list > >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe at freebsd.org" > > > > > From george Mon Apr 12 18:16:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:16:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] distrowatch.com Message-ID: They are now carrying the BSD's. . .of course, it's classified as a "distro" g From ike Tue Apr 13 01:27:40 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:27:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto Message-ID: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Hi all, So I was thinking, of starting a long-running thread here (hopefully). Basically, I was just now wondering where the best place to buy a big box of cat-5 would be, and realized I had no clue, and thought I'd ask the list- but wait- My thought got bigger, as I figure most folks buy tech over the net, like I do, so the smaller independent computer component shops really don't seem that prevalent- but- I'm not wanting to pay shipping on a few hundred feet of ethernet. What do other NYCBUG folks do? Where, in NYC, do folks get stuff, if at all? Where to get a proper 4-post 48u rack? Where in the city to get harddrives and other commodity items? Are the megastores all there is? To this thread, please recommend your trusted local spots for goods, big and small. I'll start with the next post... Rocket, .ike From pete Tue Apr 13 01:36:45 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:36:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> Isaac Levy wrote: > > > To this thread, please recommend your trusted local spots for goods, > big and small. > I'll start with the next post... in a pinch i'll use DataViz at 445 5th Ave. I think that's at 40th or so. downstairs they have most of the stuff you would need in a pinch, altho i find the prices to be a bit high on some things. url is...www.datavis.com -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ike Tue Apr 13 01:52:23 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 01:52:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Apr 13, 2004, at 1:27 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > To this thread, please recommend your trusted local spots for goods, > big and small. I live and work in Williamsburg Brooklyn, and there's 3 places nearby me: Mikey's Hookup 718-599-8906 218 Bedford Ave, Brooklyn - Lots of general Audio/Visual stuff, Blank Media, Cables galore, Harddrives, accessories. Doesn't sell straight computers- but just about everything else that computer and mechanical-creative folks go through, gas station of sorts, and quite handy. (They have guitar strings, usb keys, and printer cartridges all on the same shelf...). B-Z John Computer 718-609-0766 6 Bedford Ave, Brooklyn http://www.bzjohn.com/ Gamers, and 'family machines, Brooklyn style'. Right up near the Polish main-drag in Greenpoint, these guys build mad machines while you wait, have a HEALTHY selection of graphics cards, and have all your common commodity PC components in stock. Good guys to have around- and nice too. There's one more new place in Williamsburg- near Grand and Metropolitan- really nice guys who just opened their shop, but I've lost their card and will have to clean my desk to find it. Will post later... They build PC's, and seem to be the sweet kind of guys I'd like my sister to marry- (which worries me, perhaps...) General Computer Service, NYC (212) 594-1074 5th Floor, 10 W. 37th We used to get servers built by these guys several years ago. Cheap, cleanly assembled, rackmount hardware. No frills. I've never been inside, but they do take-out style orders, or, call for a server, and they'll have it delivered, (like a pizza). That's my tiny list for now... None if these folks really sell bulk cat-5 though. :( Rocket, .ike From ike Tue Apr 13 02:53:32 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:53:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing In-Reply-To: References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net> <20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <471ADAB0-8D17-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> More info on the topic of payment gateways, While cleaning out mailboxes, I just found some notewordy info for the company I spoke of before, ConcordEFS: On Mar 19, 2004, at 4:10 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Some of my info may be a bit off, but to my understanding, they are 1 > of 3 major companies that provide retail POS systems, and maintain the > data lines that some ATM and bank networks use for transactions- http://www.concordefsnet.com/Developers/EFSnetMultiInterfaces.asp Basically, this is their developer site- swanky XMLRPC and SOAP interfaces, as well as straight CGI calls. They also provide example source code samples, the Soap samples in multiple flavors: ASP.Net ASP Classic Java Perl Python C++ Also, looks like they added a 'test server': "The first step is to sign up for a free test account, which grants access to EFSnet test servers. With a test account, you can submit test transactions and access the EFSnet Merchant Services Web site for transaction management." Coooool. My company is still shopping around, but this looks cool. Anyone have any good results elsewhere? Any implementations happening yet? Rocket- .ike From jeffknight Tue Apr 13 10:40:02 2004 From: jeffknight (PUTAMARE) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:40:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> <407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> On Apr 13, 2004, at 1:36 AM, Pete Wright wrote: > in a pinch i'll use DataViz at 445 5th Ave. You must have plenty of surplus cash & not mind being lied to your face. That place is like a bottom-end used car dealership, before I stopped going altogether, I always felt like I needed a shower after a visit. For buying hardware, for price, selection and consumer protection I almost always shop online. http://www.newegg.com is a favorite (they're even starting to advertise on busses), and their ground shipping is in NYC in two or three days, quite fast. I've also just started using http://www.axiontech.com Some of their stuff is even cheaper than newegg, but it takes a week to get here. Then for cables & media it is hard to beat http://cyberguys.com but again, you're going to have to wait about a week for ground shipping. If you absolutely have to have it today, try Chips & Tech around the corner from Data Vision on 39th Between 5th & 6th. They have a lot of suff, and connectors and adapters that DataVis won't. Their prices are a crap shoot. Sometimes they're great and sometimes they're not. As far as a box of cat-5 goes, have you tried Home Depot? jeff.knight not junkmail at nyphp.org From lists Tue Apr 13 10:52:50 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:52:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> <407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040413105250.63b00649@delinux.abwatley.com> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:40:02 -0400 PUTAMARE wrote: > As far as a box of cat-5 goes, have you tried Home Depot? Does the 7 train run out that way? -- --- From george Tue Apr 13 11:07:29 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:07:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <20040413105250.63b00649@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of michael >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:53 AM >To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto > >On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:40:02 -0400 >PUTAMARE wrote: > >> As far as a box of cat-5 goes, have you tried Home Depot? > >Does the 7 train run out that way? F train to Smith/9th. I think Manhattan Electronics is the best. . . 16 W 45th street, 2nd floor. Haven't been there in a while, but they are very cool guys. They'll discount the pricing if you are a consultant, and they *know* their sh*t. g From bsd Tue Apr 13 10:53:23 2004 From: bsd (Kevin Reiter) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:53:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org><407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c42167$1193bf20$0600a8c0@olympus> > As far as a box of cat-5 goes, have you tried Home Depot? Home Depot is where I get all my CAT5. About $60 for a box of 1000' ( Internet/Catalog # 301340 Store SKU# 709456) and $40 for 500' of gigabit cable ( Internet/Catalog # 162791 Store SKU# 190519 ) -Kevin From pete Tue Apr 13 11:54:05 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:54:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> References: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> <407B7C6D.4070205@nomadlogic.org> <72BD6F9A-8D58-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: <407C0D1D.6000209@nomadlogic.org> PUTAMARE wrote: > On Apr 13, 2004, at 1:36 AM, Pete Wright wrote: > >> in a pinch i'll use DataViz at 445 5th Ave. > > > You must have plenty of surplus cash & not mind being lied to your > face. That place is like a bottom-end used car dealership, before I > stopped going altogether, I always felt like I needed a shower after a > visit. yea that's why i said "in a pinch", haven't had good luck at chips and tech either. i've found that if you know what you need and how much it should cost then you should be all set. -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From kit Tue Apr 13 15:02:20 2004 From: kit (Kit Halsted) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:02:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto Message-ID: At 11:07 AM -0400 4/13/04, G. Rosamond wrote: <...> > >> As far as a box of cat-5 goes, have you tried Home Depot? >> >>Does the 7 train run out that way? > >F train to Smith/9th. Also M/R to Prospect Ave., but it's a hike from the train either way. That box of Cat-5 is gonna get heavy; forget about getting traditional Home Depot stuff without a car. -Kit, who's spent a little too much time there... -- Everybody knows me, Down at the local bar, I drink until I can't see, And I wonder where you are. -Reverend Horton Heat, "Liquor, Beer, & Wine" From jeffknight Tue Apr 13 16:15:59 2004 From: jeffknight (PUTAMARE) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:15:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60C7243A-8D87-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> On Apr 13, 2004, at 3:02 PM, Kit Halsted wrote: > Also M/R to Prospect Ave., but it's a hike from the train either way. > That box of Cat-5 is gonna get heavy; forget about getting traditional > Home Depot stuff without a car. You can accomplish a lot with a hand cart & a subway (even more with an intern to torture). Just don't do it during peak hours. Also, I believe the HD in Long Island Ctiy on Northern Blvd. is closer to a train station, I've hauled quite a bit of crap from there & I'm not exactly a big guy. I just can't remember off hand which station you get out at (46th St. GRV maybe?). jeff.knight not junkmail at nyphp.org From marco Tue Apr 13 21:53:01 2004 From: marco (marco at metm.org) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:53:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <60C7243A-8D87-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> References: <60C7243A-8D87-11D8-A5F5-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040414015301.GB18292@metm.org> On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:15:59PM -0400, PUTAMARE wrote: > > You can accomplish a lot with a hand cart & a subway (even more with an > intern to torture). Just don't do it during peak hours. Also, I believe > the HD in Long Island Ctiy on Northern Blvd. is closer to a train > station, I've hauled quite a bit of crap from there & I'm not exactly a > big guy. I just can't remember off hand which station you get out at > (46th St. GRV maybe?). > Steinway blvd is closer I believe. Or the 46th St station of the 7 train. The Home Depot is kind of between the two lines. Open 24hrs though. -- Marco From jromero Tue Apr 13 23:26:49 2004 From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:26:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <480F3147-8D0B-11D8-A2E0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Isaac Levy Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:28 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org List Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto Hi all, So I was thinking, of starting a long-running thread here (hopefully). Basically, I was just now wondering where the best place to buy a big box of cat-5 would be, and realized I had no clue, and thought I'd ask the list- but wait- My thought got bigger, as I figure most folks buy tech over the net, like I do, so the smaller independent computer component shops really don't seem that prevalent- but- I'm not wanting to pay shipping on a few hundred feet of ethernet. What do other NYCBUG folks do? Where, in NYC, do folks get stuff, if at all? Where to get a proper 4-post 48u rack? Where in the city to get harddrives and other commodity items? Are the megastores all there is? To this thread, please recommend your trusted local spots for goods, big and small. I'll start with the next post... Rocket, .ike _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk well. Obviously its better to order over the internet. But there's a store in midtown that sells network cables, cisco console cables, scsi adapters, rack components... etc. It always gets me out of a jam at 10:30pm in the middle of a server migration when I realize I forgot to order slide rails for my client's server or a v.35 adapter for some CSU/DSU. The store is called Chips and Tech and it's located on 39th Street between 5th and 6th. Ask for Mohamed. For plain CAT 5 needs, however, there's nothing like Home Depot :) From george Tue Apr 13 23:36:22 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:36:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . Message-ID: Okay. . .let's start a new one. . . for any quick hardware purchases, obviously avoid Home Depot, if possible. Seriously, CompUSA is to be avoided at all costs, as is RCS, outright criminals even if you have a corporate account. Dealt with the later for many years on and off, but never was treated like a human. . .Even when my firm at the time was going to do a private placement for them, ie, raise funds for investment. My small time clone, parts, etc. shop is GCS. . .General Service and Computers, 5th floor at 10 W 37th street b/w 5th & 6th. . .212-594-1074 I have dealt with them for almost 10 years on and off. . .There's a young guy Louis who's very cool, who was moving to BSD but got stuck somewhere else. Their prices are very good, and their hardware guy is sharp on lots of stuff. Tell them I sent you, and they'll be nicer. . . Have them fax you a price list to get a sense of what they have. . . g From dan Tue Apr 13 23:39:58 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:39:58 -0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413203915.L32035@toxic.magnesium.net> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > for any quick hardware purchases, obviously avoid Home Depot, if > possible. I actually find Home Depot price competitive on network gear (e.g. CAT5E, plugs, jacks, etc). -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Tue Apr 13 23:41:59 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:41:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <20040413203915.L32035@toxic.magnesium.net> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Langille [mailto:dan at langille.org] >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:40 PM >To: G. Rosamond >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . > >On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> for any quick hardware purchases, obviously avoid Home Depot, if >> possible. > >I actually find Home Depot price competitive on network gear >(e.g. CAT5E, >plugs, jacks, etc). > >-- >Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ Should I have clarified and say avoid them for RAID arrays? :-' g From dan Tue Apr 13 23:44:28 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:44:28 -0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413204403.N32035@toxic.magnesium.net> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > Should I have clarified and say avoid them for RAID arrays? I guess so, but I was there three times today and didn't ask about that. -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From jeffknight Wed Apr 14 00:08:24 2004 From: jeffknight (putamare) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:08:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> On Apr 13, 2004, at 11:41 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > Should I have clarified and say avoid them for RAID arrays? On the other hand, the average Home Depot employee probably knows more about computer hardware than your average CompUSA employee... From dan Wed Apr 14 00:14:35 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:14:35 -0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> References: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040413211404.S32035@toxic.magnesium.net> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, putamare wrote: > On Apr 13, 2004, at 11:41 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > Should I have clarified and say avoid them for RAID arrays? > > On the other hand, the average Home Depot employee probably knows more > about computer hardware than your average CompUSA employee... They have people that know CAT5 wiring.... Or at least enough to help me wire up my house. -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From marco Wed Apr 14 00:16:28 2004 From: marco (marco at metm.org) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:16:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> References: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> Message-ID: <20040414041628.GE18292@metm.org> On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 12:08:24AM -0400, putamare wrote: > On the other hand, the average Home Depot employee probably knows more > about computer hardware than your average CompUSA employee... > Funny you say that, because I was recently in the CompUsa near DataVision, looking for an modular plug + coax cable crimper and the employee suggested I buy one at HomeDepot where he had bought his ... -- Marco From dan Wed Apr 14 00:18:55 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:18:55 -0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <20040414041628.GE18292@metm.org> References: <603B812E-8DC9-11D8-AD23-003065F9A07A@mac.com> <20040414041628.GE18292@metm.org> Message-ID: <20040413211722.E32035@toxic.magnesium.net> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 marco at metm.org wrote: > Funny you say that, because I was recently in the CompUsa near > DataVision, looking for an modular plug + coax cable crimper and the > employee suggested I buy one at HomeDepot where he had bought his ... I bought the following at HD: rj45/rj11 crimper cable tester cable ties cable anchors phone jacks rj45 jacks rj11 jacks They had everything to wire up a home. -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Wed Apr 14 00:22:41 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:22:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <20040413211722.E32035@toxic.magnesium.net> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Dan Langille >Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:19 AM >To: marco at metm.org >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . > >On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 marco at metm.org wrote: > >> Funny you say that, because I was recently in the CompUsa near >> DataVision, looking for an modular plug + coax cable crimper and the >> employee suggested I buy one at HomeDepot where he had bought his ... > >I bought the following at HD: > >rj45/rj11 crimper >cable tester >cable ties >cable anchors >phone jacks >rj45 jacks >rj11 jacks > >They had everything to wire up a home. There is still nothing better for stripping cat5/6 than scissors, and nothing better to straighten out the copper than the round part of a screwdriver. g From dan Wed Apr 14 00:24:12 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:24:12 -0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040413212254.M32035@toxic.magnesium.net> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > There is still nothing better for stripping cat5/6 than scissors By stripping, you mean removing the other sheath? I use a utility knife for that. > and nothing better to straighten out the copper than the round part of a > screwdriver. Never tried that. I have always used my fingers. -- Dan Langille - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From marco Wed Apr 14 00:33:04 2004 From: marco (Marco Scoffier) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:33:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: References: <20040413211722.E32035@toxic.magnesium.net> Message-ID: <20040414043303.GF18292@metm.org> On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 12:22:41AM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > There is still nothing better for stripping cat5/6 than scissors, and > nothing better to straighten out the copper than the round part of a > screwdriver. > Any tricks for coax ? :) From george Wed Apr 14 00:36:26 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:36:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <20040414043303.GF18292@metm.org> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Marco Scoffier >Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:33 AM >To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . > >On Wed, Apr 14, 2004 at 12:22:41AM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: >> There is still nothing better for stripping cat5/6 than scissors, and >> nothing better to straighten out the copper than the round part of a >> screwdriver. >> >Any tricks for coax ? :) migrate to a utp-based network. although those small cheap plastic wire strippers work nice. . . g From antitoch Wed Apr 14 17:23:07 2004 From: antitoch (William Lam) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:23:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto Message-ID: <000101c42266$af1d2d30$0d00a8c0@omoikane> > On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 04:15:59PM -0400, PUTAMARE wrote: > > > > You can accomplish a lot with a hand cart & a subway (even > more with > > an > > intern to torture). Just don't do it during peak hours. > Also, I believe > > the HD in Long Island Ctiy on Northern Blvd. is closer to a train > > station, I've hauled quite a bit of crap from there & I'm > not exactly a > > big guy. I just can't remember off hand which station you > get out at > > (46th St. GRV maybe?). > > > Steinway blvd is closer I believe. Or the 46th St station of > the 7 train. The Home Depot is kind of between the two > lines. Open 24hrs though. > > -- > Marco It's a fairly long walk from 46th on the 7, and not that hard to get lost. You're much better off transferring at 74th to the local R, V or G Manhattan bound to Northern Blvd where it's only 3 or 4 blocks away. There's a Best Buy as well across the street. Can't really suggest any stores, I tend to buy all my hardware online since the sales tax makes anything over $100 as expensive as it is with shipping. Will --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/20/2004 From lists Wed Apr 14 17:38:49 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:38:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware Whereto In-Reply-To: <000101c42266$af1d2d30$0d00a8c0@omoikane> References: <000101c42266$af1d2d30$0d00a8c0@omoikane> Message-ID: <20040414173849.25b6a30e@delinux.abwatley.com> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:23:07 -0400 "William Lam" wrote: > It's a fairly long walk from 46th on the 7, and not that hard to get > lost. You're much better off transferring at 74th to the local R, V or > G Manhattan bound to Northern Blvd where it's only 3 or 4 blocks away. > There's a Best Buy as well across the street. > > Can't really suggest any stores, I tend to buy all my hardware online > since the sales tax makes anything over $100 as expensive as it is > with shipping. It get's delivered to your door... and you don't have to get lost walking around in Queens carrying a bunch of heavy stuff looking for a subway stop... probably in the rain. Now THAT is a thinkin' man. Michael -- --- From george Wed Apr 14 19:27:44 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:27:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple purchases Message-ID: As those of you at the April NYCBUG meeting heard last week, NYCBUG members are eligible for some good discounts from Apple. The sales reps at the meeting were Leslie M. Schwartz (leslies at apple.com) and Patrick Dennard (pdennard at apple.com). No better time to buy an iBook or PowerBook than before Ike's "Hacking Your iBook" meeting coming up June 2nd. . and there's also may be one at BSDCan. g we're still working on the meeting space for May and June. . .we'll keep you posted. . . From lists Wed Apr 14 19:38:27 2004 From: lists (lists at natserv.com) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hardware purchases, New. . . In-Reply-To: <20040414192918.V77082@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20040414192918.V77082@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20040414193735.T77082@zoraida.natserv.net> > My small time clone, parts, etc. shop is GCS. . .General Service and > Computers, 5th floor at 10 W 37th street b/w 5th & 6th. . .212-594-1074 Because of previous mention I tried GCS about 3 months. The operation went very smooth. > I have dealt with them for almost 10 years on and off. . .There's a > young guy Louis who's very cool Louis was very, very helpfull in my orders. Resend.. sent to list with wrong ID. :-( From george Wed Apr 14 23:30:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:30:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" Message-ID: has anyone else read this, it's by Simon Singh. Came out in 1999. . . .totally floored by it. . . never imagined there would be a popular, easy-readable history of cryptography. the classic david kahn book the code breakers is too too long, but i think i'll finally have the patience this summer. . .i've had it on the shelf long enough. thoughts? g From george Thu Apr 15 09:59:43 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:59:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Home Depots in Manhattan. . . Message-ID: for all those who are looking to buy their routers and dlt drives from Home Depot, this is probably good news. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/15/garden/15DEPO.html of course free registration is required. g From pete Thu Apr 15 11:01:16 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:01:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Home Depots in Manhattan. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407EA3BC.10804@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: >for all those who are looking to buy their routers and dlt drives from >Home Depot, this is probably good news. > > > oh no this is horrible! i work accross the street from there on 22nd. the besy buy/olive garden is bad enough. at least they are not going to try to accomidate parking... -pete >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/15/garden/15DEPO.html > >of course free registration is required. > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ycui Thu Apr 15 12:19:02 2004 From: ycui (Paul Cui) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:19:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404151219.02115.ycui@bloomberg.com> I read this one at the end of 2002. must say it's one of the best book I have ever come across. another book by the same author is "Fermat's enigma". also good read.. I even attempted the challenge at the end of the book. but solved the first two. but never completed. I think I will leave the rest till I retire :) -Paul On Wednesday 14 April 2004 23:30, G. Rosamond wrote: > has anyone else read this, it's by Simon Singh. > > Came out in 1999. . . .totally floored by it. . . > > never imagined there would be a popular, easy-readable history of > cryptography. > > the classic david kahn book the code breakers is too too long, but i > think i'll finally have the patience this summer. . .i've had it on the > shelf long enough. > thoughts? From john Thu Apr 15 14:10:47 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:10:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] deadly. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040415181047.GA2583@dancer> * G. Rosamond [20040409 06:47]: > apparently it's not obsd journal. . .but another alternative. . . It's been handed down by Jose and dengue, so now it is the old journal. > http://www.benzedrine.cx/deadly/cgi That's now: http://www.undeadly.org/ . John From jesse Thu Apr 15 17:31:17 2004 From: jesse (jc) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:31:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" References: <200404151219.02115.ycui@bloomberg.com> Message-ID: <000e01c42330$fc786ed0$69fea8c0@noc2> Certainly can't go wrong with "Cryptonomicon", Neal Patrick Stephenson. I was stuck to that book for quite a while. It's historical fiction going from the beginning of WWII to present. Talks about breaking Enigma code and compares it to modern cryptanalysis. Not much fun if you just want some codes to break, but it goes into the ethics of strong encryption and privacy. Talk of Turing and Wheeler's thing, military escapades, a malevolent dentist... Jesse > I read this one at the end of 2002. must say it's one of the best book I have > ever come across. another book by the same author is "Fermat's enigma". also > good read.. > > I even attempted the challenge at the end of the book. but solved the first > two. but never completed. I think I will leave the rest till I retire :) > > -Paul > > > On Wednesday 14 April 2004 23:30, G. Rosamond wrote: > > has anyone else read this, it's by Simon Singh. > > > > Came out in 1999. . . .totally floored by it. . . > > > > never imagined there would be a popular, easy-readable history of > > cryptography. > > > > the classic david kahn book the code breakers is too too long, but i > > think i'll finally have the patience this summer. . .i've had it on the > > shelf long enough. > > thoughts? From george Thu Apr 15 23:00:12 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 23:00:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" In-Reply-To: <000e01c42330$fc786ed0$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of jc >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 5:31 PM >To: ycui at bloomberg.com; talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" > >Certainly can't go wrong with "Cryptonomicon", Neal Patrick >Stephenson. I >was stuck to that book for quite a while. It's historical >fiction going from >the beginning of WWII to present. Talks about breaking Enigma code and >compares it to modern cryptanalysis. Not much fun if you just want some >codes to break, but it goes into the ethics of strong encryption and >privacy. Talk of Turing and Wheeler's thing, military escapades, a >malevolent dentist... > >Jesse But i got to be honest. . .I didn't enjoy much fiction, at all, but was thrilled by Da Vinci's Code. . .historical/reality-based fiction has its moments. But it got to a point where the conspiracy theories and over-done intricate plots which all reconnected at the end. . .but of course, all starting with the solo authority hooking up with the beautiful but overseas and undiscovered brain is getting a little trying. . .Da Vinci's Code, Angels and Devils, Digital Fortress. . .etc. Yes, "based" in reality with CERN, etc. Even a mention of Schneier that Schneier himself mentioned at a talk recently in Da Vinci's Code on page 199. Maybe Cryptonomicon doesn't go that route. . .don't mean to prejudge, these conspiracies could all be true for all i care. But you talk encryption and cryptoanalysis, you talk conspiracies when it comes to fiction. Again, I should check out the book and not prejudge. . . But for me, better to read reality. g From george Fri Apr 16 07:34:12 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:34:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: [nylug-talk] test your email virus scanners! Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: nylug-talk-bounces at nylug.org >[mailto:nylug-talk-bounces at nylug.org] On Behalf Of Sunny Dubey >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 9:31 PM >To: NYLUG discussion list >Subject: [nylug-talk] test your email virus scanners! > >Hi guys > >This was posted to a forum of my ISP: > >http://www.testvirus.org/ > >My postfix2x+amavisd+spamassassin+clamav setup fails tests 8, >12, 19, 24 >and 25. doh! > >Sunny Dubey >_______________________________________________ >The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk at nylug.org >To subscribe or unsubscribe: >http://www.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk > From ycui Fri Apr 16 19:40:50 2004 From: ycui (Paul Cui) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:40:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Code Book" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404161940.50439.ycui@bloomberg.com> > But for me, better to read reality. if you like reality, and like cryptography, then also should consider "crypto" by Steven Levy. not very technical but has quite some interesting stuff. -Paul From ike Tue Apr 20 10:11:41 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:11:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 Message-ID: Hey all, Had a quick question for all the networking hardcores on this wire- I'm gonna be running some ethernet around my home office and am wondering if the double price of Cat6 is worthwhile, seeing as all the cheap gigabit switches out there state they'll work aok with Cat5 etc... Context: I'm a web app developer and have lots of dev servers floating in and out of here, gigabit nics in most things I touch- and now I have a need to run ethernet in here, and don't want to make a dumb choice if Cat6 really is important.. (I don't wanna replace cables in 2 yrs...) Anybody have any good opinion or experience? Rocket- .ike From ike Tue Apr 20 10:20:16 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:20:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' Message-ID: Hey all, ike here, I'm one of the folks doing the lecture 'Hacking your iBook' in June- and I wanted to do a bit of pre-lecture survey to see what kinds of questions folks have- (I really want to make sure it's a worthwhile and fun meeting ) I'm not planning to talk about hardware and Apple stuff proper, (i.e. that's what the Apple folks did), I'm planning to go into networking, hacking and doing stuff- BSD related stuff- with your machine, and have gotten a colleauge Bob Ippolito on board, to dive into Cocoa programming and show how simple and fast GUI app development really is on a mac. So, with that, what kind of questions does everybody have? I'm looking for big-picture questions, small questions, where to begin questions... There's just so much fun stuff to dive into, I want to reduce it to something short and fun- Feel free to either add to this thread, or email me offlist- Rocket, .ike From george Tue Apr 20 10:26:38 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:26:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Isaac Levy >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:20 AM >To: NYC Bug List >Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' > >Hey all, > >ike here, I'm one of the folks doing the lecture 'Hacking your iBook' >in June- and I wanted to do a bit of pre-lecture survey to see what >kinds of questions folks have- (I really want to make sure it's a >worthwhile and fun meeting ) > >I'm not planning to talk about hardware and Apple stuff proper, (i.e. >that's what the Apple folks did), I'm planning to go into networking, >hacking and doing stuff- BSD related stuff- with your machine, >and have >gotten a colleauge Bob Ippolito on board, to dive into Cocoa >programming and show how simple and fast GUI app development really is >on a mac. > >So, with that, what kind of questions does everybody have? >I'm looking >for big-picture questions, small questions, where to begin >questions... > There's just so much fun stuff to dive into, I want to reduce it to >something short and fun- > >Feel free to either add to this thread, or email me offlist- > >Rocket, >.ike Sounds good big Ike. . . Hopefully Grant from ORA can bring along a few Mac Hacks books. . . I think there's the basics that would be good to cover first: enabling root, installing XFree86, the ports. Also the server administration tools are pretty funky, as we reviewed at a recent LESMUUG meeting. g From jromero Tue Apr 20 10:32:44 2004 From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:32:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of G. Rosamond Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:27 AM To: 'Isaac Levy'; 'NYC Bug List' Cc: 'Grant Kikkert' Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Isaac Levy >Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:20 AM >To: NYC Bug List >Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' > >Hey all, > >ike here, I'm one of the folks doing the lecture 'Hacking your iBook' >in June- and I wanted to do a bit of pre-lecture survey to see what >kinds of questions folks have- (I really want to make sure it's a >worthwhile and fun meeting ) > >I'm not planning to talk about hardware and Apple stuff proper, (i.e. >that's what the Apple folks did), I'm planning to go into networking, >hacking and doing stuff- BSD related stuff- with your machine, and have >gotten a colleauge Bob Ippolito on board, to dive into Cocoa >programming and show how simple and fast GUI app development really is >on a mac. > >So, with that, what kind of questions does everybody have? >I'm looking >for big-picture questions, small questions, where to begin questions... > There's just so much fun stuff to dive into, I want to reduce it to >something short and fun- > >Feel free to either add to this thread, or email me offlist- > >Rocket, >.ike Sounds good big Ike. . . Hopefully Grant from ORA can bring along a few Mac Hacks books. . . I think there's the basics that would be good to cover first: enabling root, installing XFree86, the ports. Also the server administration tools are pretty funky, as we reviewed at a recent LESMUUG meeting. g _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk I wasn?t at the last meeting which focussed on OSX. If OpenFirmware was not discussed I think it would an interesting subject to go into for a bit. JR From pete Tue Apr 20 10:38:23 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:38:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <408535DF.8090601@nomadlogic.org> Jeronimo Romero wrote: >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > >I wasn?t at the last meeting which focussed on OSX. If OpenFirmware >was not discussed >I think it would an interesting subject to go into for a bit. > >JR > > > yea OpenFirmware would be execellent!! another cool thing i'd like to see is how to setup dual booting on a mac...i don't think it's too hard, but still it's one of those things i've never had a chance to play with... -pete > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From aron Tue Apr 20 10:39:23 2004 From: aron (Aron Roberts) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:39:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8414F662-92D8-11D8-8E94-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> How is this specific to the iBook if there it nothing hardware specific? I could see maybe XFree config files under NetBSD or something being iBook specific. Is the iBook just the box you picked to name the talk or is there more to it? On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:26 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Isaac Levy >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:20 AM >> To: NYC Bug List >> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' >> >> Hey all, >> >> ike here, I'm one of the folks doing the lecture 'Hacking your iBook' >> in June- and I wanted to do a bit of pre-lecture survey to see what >> kinds of questions folks have- (I really want to make sure it's a >> worthwhile and fun meeting ) >> >> I'm not planning to talk about hardware and Apple stuff proper, (i.e. >> that's what the Apple folks did), I'm planning to go into networking, >> hacking and doing stuff- BSD related stuff- with your machine, >> and have >> gotten a colleauge Bob Ippolito on board, to dive into Cocoa >> programming and show how simple and fast GUI app development really is >> on a mac. >> >> So, with that, what kind of questions does everybody have? >> I'm looking >> for big-picture questions, small questions, where to begin >> questions... >> There's just so much fun stuff to dive into, I want to reduce it to >> something short and fun- >> >> Feel free to either add to this thread, or email me offlist- >> >> Rocket, >> .ike > > Sounds good big Ike. . . > > Hopefully Grant from ORA can bring along a few Mac Hacks books. . . > > I think there's the basics that would be good to cover first: > > enabling root, installing XFree86, the ports. > > Also the server administration tools are pretty funky, as we reviewed > at > a recent LESMUUG meeting. > > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From bob Tue Apr 20 11:07:11 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:07:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <408535DF.8090601@nomadlogic.org> References: <408535DF.8090601@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <660EBBCE-92DC-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Pete Wright wrote: > Jeronimo Romero wrote: > >> I wasn?t at the last meeting which focussed on OSX. If OpenFirmware >> was not discussed I think it would an interesting subject to go into >> for a bit. > > yea OpenFirmware would be execellent!! another cool thing i'd like to > see is how to setup dual booting on a mac...i don't think it's too > hard, but still it's one of those things i've never had a chance to > play with... It's not an OpenFirmware demonstration until you start writing forth words in it :) -bob From pete Tue Apr 20 11:06:39 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:06:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <660EBBCE-92DC-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> References: <408535DF.8090601@nomadlogic.org> <660EBBCE-92DC-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: <40853C7F.50605@nomadlogic.org> Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:38 AM, Pete Wright wrote: > >> Jeronimo Romero wrote: >> >>> I wasn?t at the last meeting which focussed on OSX. If OpenFirmware >>> was not discussed I think it would an interesting subject to go into >>> for a bit. >> >> >> yea OpenFirmware would be execellent!! another cool thing i'd like to >> see is how to setup dual booting on a mac...i don't think it's too >> hard, but still it's one of those things i've never had a chance to >> play with... > > > It's not an OpenFirmware demonstration until you start writing forth > words in it :) > yea maybe we should get ike to setup the forth webserver i saw on the 'net i while back...that would be an ibook demo to end all ibook demos;^) -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From dan Tue Apr 20 11:08:53 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:08:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: [Bsdcan] BSDCan: Status In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <408504C5.21019.F5186F8@localhost> On 20 Apr 2004 at 11:02, G. Rosamond wrote: > There's about 85 people registered. That's outdated. That's what I told you yesterday. But now it's 90. ;) > At this point, I know of a number of people going from NYC. Only two people from NY are registered. George is one of them. > It's a bit of a hike, but it should be a blast. When I left George's place after Linux World Expo, I was home in 6 hours, 40 minutes. That includes a stop for lunch, crossing the border, and stopping for gas. > bsdcan.org for more info. . . Put it this way: you can come here, go to a great con, eat and drink well, have a great time, all cheaper than the admission cost of LWE. cheers -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mlists Tue Apr 20 11:20:56 2004 From: mlists (Bruno Scap) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:20:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040420152056.GU30369@bizintegrators.com> On Tue, Apr 20, 2004 at 10:11:41AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey all, > > Had a quick question for all the networking hardcores on this wire- > I'm gonna be running some ethernet around my home office and am > wondering if the double price of Cat6 is worthwhile, seeing as all the > cheap gigabit switches out there state they'll work aok with Cat5 > etc... > > Context: I'm a web app developer and have lots of dev servers floating > in and out of here, gigabit nics in most things I touch- and now I have > a need to run ethernet in here, and don't want to make a dumb choice if > Cat6 really is important.. (I don't wanna replace cables in 2 yrs...) > > Anybody have any good opinion or experience? > Cat6 is a higher quality and higher performance cable than Cat5e. Most likely, if you ever want to push above 1 Gbit, (10 Gb?), Cat5e won't be able to do it. Even at Giga speeds, Cat6 should perform better, since it has better immunity from external noise, etc. Keep in mind I have no direct experience with Cat6, just trying to outline what seems to be the difference between the two. Bruno -- Reliable Business E-mail Hosting http://www.bizintegrators.com From ike Tue Apr 20 11:45:01 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:45:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <8414F662-92D8-11D8-8E94-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> References: <8414F662-92D8-11D8-8E94-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> Message-ID: Hi Aron, On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Aron Roberts wrote: > How is this specific to the iBook if there it nothing hardware > specific? I could see maybe XFree config files under NetBSD or > something being iBook specific. Is the iBook just the box you picked > to name the talk or is there more to it? Nah- 'Hacking your iBook' is just a general name to allude to the mass of iBooks seen at Open Source, Developer, and Hacking conferences etc... There's gotta be a good reason more folks are running Apple kits... http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/07/2013255.shtml? tid=107&tid=126&tid=156&tid=187 With that stated, it's not going to be a talk that is limited to iBooks at all- it's about hacking and making stuff with Darwin/BSD/MacOSX/Apple Machines etc... The info presented will be applicable on hardware from XServes to iBooks to Powerbooks to G5 machines, and even to X86 since Darwin runs on X86... The general aim for audience would be *NIX folks who are curious about hacking apple stuff, or have an apple machine and want the low-down on mad hacking- but esp. after the last lecture, (Apple Engineers), there will be little to no info on hardware and Apple stuff- and more about making/hacking stuff... Rocket- .ike From theotherbush Tue Apr 20 20:39:12 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:39:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 Message-ID: Ike I suggest that you deploy Cat5e (350MHz). This will carry 1Gb Ethernet quite well. IMHO 10GB (requring higher bandwidth cable) will be used mostly for aggregating (servers to switches with 10Gb server ports and 1Gb workstation ports); unless you're into video?? I may be pulling some Cat6e in the near future and could perhaps provide a partial spool after the job is complete. How much cable do you estimate that you need? If you go ahaead with Cat6/6e you will need to terminate with Cat6 product in the workarea. I have used Cat6/6e on a Cat 5e job to exceed the 100meter length restriction on utp ethernet with success, although this is out of spec it tested ok (in case your pulling a home run beyond the 100 meter). If you need sources for (priced right quality) cable and termination product let me know and I'll be glad to help. BTW I strongly recommend CommScope cable and Panduit or Siemon termination in the workarea. (I don't want to start a Ford/Chevy debate these are my personal choices and I acknolwedge that others prefer AMP etc.) ;-) If you have any other questions or need assitance feel free to e-mail me directly for a phone number. Harold Bush Chief Technologist digitalBRANDS ? >From: Isaac Levy >To: NYC Bug List >Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:11:41 -0400 > >Hey all, > >Had a quick question for all the networking hardcores on this wire- >I'm gonna be running some ethernet around my home office and am wondering >if the double price of Cat6 is worthwhile, seeing as all the cheap gigabit >switches out there state they'll work aok with Cat5 etc... > >Context: I'm a web app developer and have lots of dev servers floating in >and out of here, gigabit nics in most things I touch- and now I have a need >to run ethernet in here, and don't want to make a dumb choice if Cat6 >really is important.. (I don't wanna replace cables in 2 yrs...) > >Anybody have any good opinion or experience? > >Rocket- >.ike > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk _________________________________________________________________ >From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the Spring Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx From bob Tue Apr 20 21:27:38 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:27:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1347DD18-9333-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> I also suggest cat5e. I have a relatively cheap gigE switch with cat5e here and everything works great. I haven't done any real benchmarks, but I can definitely say the performance is much better than when we were using 100bt. I don't take advantage of it much myself, but one of my roommates does a lot of video work so the G5s get it on every so often :) -bob On Apr 20, 2004, at 8:39 PM, Harold Bush wrote: > Ike > > I suggest that you deploy Cat5e (350MHz). This will carry 1Gb Ethernet > quite well. > > IMHO 10GB (requring higher bandwidth cable) will be used mostly for > aggregating (servers to switches with 10Gb server ports and 1Gb > workstation ports); unless you're into video?? I may be pulling some > Cat6e in the near future and could perhaps provide a partial spool > after the job is complete. How much cable do you estimate that you > need? If you go ahaead with Cat6/6e you will need to terminate with > Cat6 product in the workarea. I have used Cat6/6e on a Cat 5e job to > exceed the 100meter length restriction on utp ethernet with success, > although this is out of spec it tested ok (in case your pulling a home > run beyond the 100 meter). > > If you need sources for (priced right quality) cable and termination > product let me know and I'll be glad to help. > > BTW I strongly recommend CommScope cable and Panduit or Siemon > termination in the workarea. > (I don't want to start a Ford/Chevy debate these are my personal > choices and I acknolwedge that others prefer AMP etc.) ;-) > > If you have any other questions or need assitance feel free to e-mail > me directly for a phone number. > > Harold Bush > Chief Technologist > digitalBRANDS ? > > > > >> From: Isaac Levy >> To: NYC Bug List >> Subject: [nycbug-talk] The truth about Cat6 >> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:11:41 -0400 >> >> Hey all, >> >> Had a quick question for all the networking hardcores on this wire- >> I'm gonna be running some ethernet around my home office and am >> wondering if the double price of Cat6 is worthwhile, seeing as all >> the cheap gigabit switches out there state they'll work aok with Cat5 >> etc... >> >> Context: I'm a web app developer and have lots of dev servers >> floating in and out of here, gigabit nics in most things I touch- and >> now I have a need to run ethernet in here, and don't want to make a >> dumb choice if Cat6 really is important.. (I don't wanna replace >> cables in 2 yrs...) >> >> Anybody have any good opinion or experience? >> >> Rocket- >> .ike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > _________________________________________________________________ >> From must-see cities to the best beaches, plan a getaway with the >> Spring > Travel Guide! http://special.msn.com/local/springtravel.armx > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From george Tue Apr 20 21:26:21 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:26:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: [nylug-talk] Invited to the AMD Opteron Anniversary Party: RSVP by4/16 Message-ID: it's a bit late. . .but this was on the NYLUG list. . >-----Original Message----- >From: nylug-talk-bounces at nylug.org >[mailto:nylug-talk-bounces at nylug.org] On Behalf Of John Bacalle >Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 11:32 AM >To: New York Linux Users Group >Subject: [nylug-talk] Invited to the AMD Opteron Anniversary >Party: RSVP by4/16 > >RE: NY Linux Users Grp. Invited to the AMD Opteron Anniversary Party > Note the reservation is due Friday 16th, tommorrow > > >Advance Micro Devices' (AMD) Opteron processor has been available for >o-n-e year, during this period its vast 64-bit power, its rare >to the PC >world non-execute memory bit security feature (part of the AMD64 >extension to the old x86 instruction set) continues to please, provide >much better results, and continue to gather new adherents in the free >software, business, and user communities. > >Linux, the *BSDs, and other operating systems support the 64-bit >Opteron. Note how AMD's approach is exceptional in that it allows users >to continue with their 32-bit computing whilst migrating at their >leisure to the better world of pure 64-bit computing. Have >your cake and >eat it too. > >Some of you already know these facts, but further, others >might not have >made, yet, the realization there is Sparc/Sun replacement >written on the >Opteron for a great many of you. That means a healthier bottom line to >you, pay attention managers. > >Moreover, AMD has a sterling reputation in technical documenting its >processors to free software developers, thus making the most of the >chip's goodies available to you, and me. An enlightened company, much >worthy of our support! > >In the past Advance Micro Devices has been very kind in supporting the >New York Linux Users Group (NYLUG.org), and we in turn have been not >selfish but self served by our affiliation. We have made great contacts >with a great engineering company, have been a bridge to the free >software world for AMD and have access to a great CPU chip for our >servers and desktops. But to top it off AMD is treating the whole NYLUG >usership to a free event at the famous Rainbow Room, atop Rockefeller >Center. These AMD boys and girls rock hard. 8) > >Thus, please R.S.V.P. by Friday April 16 to ensure your place at this >event. > > > Celebrate the AMD Opteron(TM) > ``The Customer, The Experience, The Future'' > > AMD invites you to the renowned Rainbow Room to celebrate the > one-year anniversary launch of the AMD Opteron(TM) processor. > > The Rainbow Room[1] > 30 Rockefeller Plaza (at Rockefeller Center) > 65th floor > New York, NY 10112 > > Thursday, April 22, 2004 <-------<<<<< > 4:30 PM - 7:00 PM > > >Please send your R.S.V.P. to . <-------<<<<< >_______________________________________________ >The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk at nylug.org >To subscribe or unsubscribe: >http://www.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk > From sunny-ml Tue Apr 20 21:34:11 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:34:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' Message-ID: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Tue Apr 20 12:45:01 EDT 2004 Isaac Levy wrote > There's gotta be a good reason more folks are running Apple > kits... > > http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/07/2013255.shtml? > tid=107&tid=126&tid=156&tid=187 I've noticed that many of you *bsd guys are totally gung-ho on apple .... Yet I'm not going to deny that there are many of us who are taking a much more pragmatic "wait-and-see" attitude ... Now that my colors have been exposed, I think it is fair that everyone reads the following comment from that specific Slashdot article itself. http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103252&cid=8797090 Have a good one Sunny Dubey PS: I've heard that gcc's ppc64 code-gen is crap. And that people perfer using IBM's xl* compiler stuff. Is this true ? thanks From george Tue Apr 20 21:48:07 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:48:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: Sunny says. . . >I've noticed that many of you *bsd guys are totally gung-ho on >apple .... >Yet I'm not going to deny that there are many of us who are >taking a much >more pragmatic "wait-and-see" attitude ... > >Now that my colors have been exposed, I think it is fair that >everyone reads >the following comment from that specific Slashdot article itself. > >http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103252&cid=8797090 I ordered an ibook today. The first reason to note why so many BSD people are into Apples is that it's likely the second most popular desktop in the world, and it's running BSD, even with the drop. The fact that you can have a secure GUI desktop or laptop, and still have access to the BSD backend is a wonderful privilege. When Apple first came out with OS X, I was stunned. What's a better than synthesizing the most stable, secure os around with the best gui? Never imaginged it, but am totally happy about it. There are issues, of course, particuarly about Apple's contributions to the BSD's, as came up in response to an OSViews article. . . http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20040309150310 Nevertheless, it's little wonder that *BSD-heads are into Apple. I think having a strong, active BSD User Group in NYC can assist the relation further. User Groups can impact large corporations to some extent. I think the rep's from Apple at our last meeting were thoroughly impressed by the depth of the audience's interest and questions, the fact that their were over 40 some-odd people in the room, and that most importantly, everyone sat engrossed during the entire 2 hour presentation. Sunny, why don't you explain why so many Linux people are so anti-Apple? Although I know most of the answers. . . g From bob Tue Apr 20 21:57:46 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:57:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <48BD4AA9-9337-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Apr 20, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Tue Apr 20 12:45:01 EDT 2004 Isaac Levy wrote > >> There's gotta be a good reason more folks are running Apple >> kits... >> >> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/07/2013255.shtml? >> tid=107&tid=126&tid=156&tid=187 > > I've noticed that many of you *bsd guys are totally gung-ho on apple > .... > Yet I'm not going to deny that there are many of us who are taking a > much > more pragmatic "wait-and-see" attitude ... I believe that wait-until-I-can-afford-it is the real excuse for most people. If you have philosophical problems with OS X you could run a *BSD or Linux on the hardware and it will work just fine. Anyway, I think that most hardcore *nix-ers are really only buying the laptops, because Apple has the best price/performance/works-on-free-operating-systems record. I personally own some G4's and G5s, but I'll buy commodity stuff for servers and run something else if it's just going to be sitting in a closet and I don't want to spend a lot of money. > Now that my colors have been exposed, I think it is fair that everyone > reads > the following comment from that specific Slashdot article itself. > > http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103252&cid=8797090 I've never seen a /. comment used as "proof" for anything before.. but I was a registered ADC Premiere subscriber for the hardware discounts (it's about 20% off for up to 10 machines including any accessories, so it ends up being quite cost effective if you're buying a bunch of apples) last year. However, I also do develop software, and a good bit of that is even extremely specific to OS X, so I am also legitimately an ADC member (though I scaled back to select, because we didn't need to buy lots of computers this year) :) > PS: I've heard that gcc's ppc64 code-gen is crap. And that people > perfer > using IBM's xl* compiler stuff. Is this true ? thanks Yeah, if you need obscenely fast code, you shouldn't use GCC. Ever, on any platform, no exceptions. Hell, if you need obscenely fast code, you're probably writing (parts of) it in FORTRAN anyway, and god knows GCC doesn't have a very good FORTRAN compiler. -bob From bob Tue Apr 20 22:04:52 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:04:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47020CD4-9338-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Apr 20, 2004, at 9:48 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > Sunny, why don't you explain why so many Linux people are so > anti-Apple? > Although I know most of the answers. . . From what I can tell.. They don't want to spend, or can't afford, the premium for pretty boxes. I.e., they'd rather spend a week recompiling kernels and fiddling with X11 settings so that it runs on the toaster. It doesn't align with the GPL (Grossly Political License). If you didn't notice, Apple refuses to distribute GPL'ed software with mainline OS X (though OS X Server and Developer Tools have GPL software). It's funny that the only GPL'ed software that people actually miss is readline. They can't dual-boot, Wine, VMWare, etc. to run the latest build of Windows XP to play their precious games :) -bob From george Tue Apr 20 22:12:28 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:12:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <47020CD4-9338-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> Message-ID: >> Sunny, why don't you explain why so many Linux people are so >> anti-Apple? >> Although I know most of the answers. . . > > From what I can tell.. > >They don't want to spend, or can't afford, the premium for pretty It is substantially cheaper to go i386. and who needs good looking computers? >boxes. I.e., they'd rather spend a week recompiling kernels and >fiddling with X11 settings so that it runs on the toaster. Nothing wrong with that. . .kernel hacking is something Apple people don't get enough of. . . >It doesn't align with the GPL (Grossly Political License). If you >didn't notice, Apple refuses to distribute GPL'ed software with >mainline OS X (though OS X Server and Developer Tools have GPL >software). It's funny that the only GPL'ed software that people >actually miss is readline. > >They can't dual-boot, Wine, VMWare, etc. to run the latest build of >Windows XP to play their precious games :) > >-bob that attraction is also understood. g From sunny-ml Tue Apr 20 22:21:12 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:21:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200404202220.58231.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Tuesday 20 April 2004 09:48 pm, G. Rosamond wrote: > http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20040309150310 > I've seen the link posted in that story floated around the intraweb. So far the general consensus I've seen is that the story has its facts backwards and that the author shouldn't be allowed to write on this subject again, heh. > Sunny, why don't you explain why so many Linux people are so anti-Apple? > Although I know most of the answers. . . We're not anti-apple, (at least I'm not) especially now that Yellow Dog has a full blown PPC64 port of linux, heh. However us "linux people" are used to getting our contributions from the likes of the GNU/Redhat/SuSe/IBM, and *not* apple. We have watched the GNU write amazing tools from almost nothing, Redhat/SuSe contribute in large ways to the kernel, XFree86(and now fd.o/Xorg), the GCC, and companes like IBM hire hackers for really random things (the DRI comes to mind), etc, etc. Yet in all honesty we simply aren't aware of the supposed amazing contributions apple has given back to FLOSS (this has nothing to do with linux) I'm not here to start another mindless flame-thread. Just here to present a different mentality. This is my last post for this thread. I just don't care, finito. Sunny Dubey PS: To Bob Ippolito, I suggest you find better reasons than linux users not affording apple's hardware as reasons why we are more hesitant than most *BSD folks. Additionally compiling bucket loads of software is something is linux users have yerned for from the *BSD port's tree. (And something *BSD users have always bragged to us {S}RPM/DEB/ETC dwellers) I guess it would take a *real* bsd user to know that ... I was expecting *much* better and I am somewhat disappointed. From bob Tue Apr 20 22:30:47 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:30:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:12 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > >>> Sunny, why don't you explain why so many Linux people are so >>> anti-Apple? >>> Although I know most of the answers. . . >> >> From what I can tell.. >> >> They don't want to spend, or can't afford, the premium for pretty > > It is substantially cheaper to go i386. and who needs good looking > computers? It's not substantially cheaper in the portables market, which is what most converts own anyway. The desktops on convenience and proprietary software alone, and that just doesn't work very well in the *nix scene. I believe the new Xserve G5s definitely have something going for them, because it's a lot of power to put in a little box, that is competitively priced for what it is.. I know the scientific market is really getting into the Apple groove these days. >> boxes. I.e., they'd rather spend a week recompiling kernels and >> fiddling with X11 settings so that it runs on the toaster. > > Nothing wrong with that. . .kernel hacking is something Apple people > don't get enough of. . . Far, far, far, far fewer things need to be in-kernel with the Mach architecture.. that's why. I've done a little bit of xnu hacking, but it's really just not necessary very often! -bob From john Tue Apr 20 22:27:15 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:27:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] [sunny-ml@opencurve.org: [nylug-talk] Which CMS package to use ?!] Message-ID: <20040421022715.GA1394@dancer> Hi, you might enjoy this: Make it *AMP and you're set. Kick the tires on some of this stuff without too much fuss. Convenience/price is right. John ----- Forwarded message from Sunny Dubey ----- Sender: nylug-talk-bounces at nylug.org From: Sunny Dubey Reply-To: NYLUG discussion list Subject: [nylug-talk] Which CMS package to use ?! Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:46:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.1 To: "NYLUG discussion list" Delivered-To: nylug-talk at nylug.org Hey guys Are you confused by the billions of CMS packages ? Not too sure which ones to use ? Check out http://www.opensourcecms.com/ Its a nice site where you can try out various LAMP based CMS packages (to some extent, duh) before having to DL, configure and install it. It allows you to check out CMS, blogging software, e-commerce, etc etc. Hope it helps someone faced with the daunting task of selecting one of these, heh Sunny Dubey _______________________________________________ The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk at nylug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe: http://www.nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk ----- End forwarded message ----- From bob Tue Apr 20 22:39:00 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:39:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <200404202220.58231.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200404202220.58231.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <0BB86186-933D-11D8-90CB-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > I'm not here to start another mindless flame-thread. Just here to > present a > different mentality. This is my last post for this thread. I just > don't > care, finito. > > Sunny Dubey > > PS: To Bob Ippolito, I suggest you find better reasons than linux > users not > affording apple's hardware as reasons why we are more hesitant than > most > *BSD folks. Additionally compiling bucket loads of software is > something is > linux users have yerned for from the *BSD port's tree. (And something > *BSD > users have always bragged to us {S}RPM/DEB/ETC dwellers) I guess it > would > take a *real* bsd user to know that ... I was expecting *much* better > and > I am somewhat disappointed. I thought it was obvious that my comments were light hearted and verging on troll.. but wipe that aside and the only reasons I have heard from OSS developers are either price, political, or win32... but mostly price. That said, I know a bunch of people that choose to run Debian or the like on their iBooks, and it suits them just fine. iBooks/Powerbooks are probably the best portable platform for ANY *nix right now, whether it's running Linux, FreeBSD, OS X, etc. -bob From ike Wed Apr 21 09:31:51 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:31:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <3F210E0C-9398-11D8-8035-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Hi Sunny, All, So it looks like my survey for questions for my shared lecture triggered quite a sharp spike in this thread, and an interesting and age-old discussion about apples. I'll respond below, but I'm gonna' ask that if everyone wants to continue this discussion, please start a new thread, or go offlist if it gets firey, as this direction has sharply cut the amount of great questions we were getting before in prep for the upcoming discussion (btw thx for everyone who posted questions!!! Post More!!!). Sorry for the length of what follows, but it's going to be my only response to this thread. -- On Apr 20, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Tue Apr 20 12:45:01 EDT 2004 Isaac Levy wrote > >> There's gotta be a good reason more folks are running Apple >> kits... >> >> http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/04/07/2013255.shtml? >> tid=107&tid=126&tid=156&tid=187 > > I've noticed that many of you *bsd guys are totally gung-ho on apple > .... > Yet I'm not going to deny that there are many of us who are taking a > much > more pragmatic "wait-and-see" attitude ... Let me state my personal attitude- Apple, simply represents a particular choice. This choice does not mean that I'm arguing that Apple/Darwin is the best, (or that there even IS a best), but simply put- my choice, and I've been extremely happy with my Apple choices for many years. Sunny, what you stated as a "wait-and-see" attitude, that's fine- but I'm not interested in this vs. that in general- I'm very happy doing my thing, on an apple, and pleased with the diversity of all of the respective worlds we decide to participate in as developers and *NIX users. We all have a lot to learn from each other, and creativity is the only thing I really value in this whole lot- and I know we all have a lot of that... A brief and final response from me re. Apple's market: -- So far that I've seen, people who love apple stuff, aren't usually too gung-ho on anything in particular, but just have high expectations for things they buy (hardwarre), and require a consistent, robust, and mature platform for doing stuff (OS). Many of the developers I've seen at Open Source/Developers/Security conferences who use apple machiens, actually work on other things, and simply want a solid rig, so they can go do other things, and have chosen Apples. I posted the /. url above because it accurately echoes what I've seen at various conferences, nearly or over 50/50 Apple rigs- so there is something noteworthy going on. With regard to comments about cost/hardware elsewhere this thread, look- it just works out that Apple machines are highly economical for me. A powerbook lasts me about 3 years before I start feeling slow enough to loose productivity, and during that time, I get to use a VERY well engineered kit, (important to me based on how much my hands touch a computer). In that time I don't upgrade hardware much, mabye will bump the ram, but I just use it- and get the luxury of focusing on what I'm working on- (not my kit). The whole time I get to focus on what's important to me as a developer, which personally, isn't my kit. > > Now that my colors have been exposed, I think it is fair that everyone > reads > the following comment from that specific Slashdot article itself. > > http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=103252&cid=8797090 I'm not going to get deep into a discussion about market share, except to state that I, and most Apple hardcores, have never cared too much about being the minority. If we really want to get into what has market share, we must separate the desktop from the server, and totally put the scientific/heavy-computation communities in their own group, and really look at what's running in those markets: If it's the personal desktop or enterprise server we're talking about, we're talking about MS, and I don't mean to speak for everyone else, but this it's likely this list doesn't care too much to discuss MS. > Have a good one > > Sunny Dubey > > PS: I've heard that gcc's ppc64 code-gen is crap. And that people > perfer > using IBM's xl* compiler stuff. Is this true ? thanks I don't really know- I don't write 64 bit specific code, but I must say, I'm the wrong person to ask directly about nuts and bolts of that. A lot of developers have trouble grasping the architectural differences between PPC and X86 architectures, as they are VERY different beasts, and much of the world is rockin' X86- so I'm not surprised if there's some madness with compilers- but it's not really my business, so that's all I can say. To answer your specific question, I'd try the opendarwin IRC channel on freenode, one of the OpenDarwin mailing lists (there are several); http://opendarwin.org/mailman/listinfo/hackers But based on my personal experiences compiling anything on osx/Darwin, I'm quite pleased with the ease of use in apple's GCC distro, and have been impressed by the tight integration with things like alti-vec optimization etc... so I'll personally keep using it for just about everything on my Apples. On Apr 20, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > I'm not here to start another mindless flame-thread. Just here to > present a > different mentality. This is my last post for this thread. I just > don't > care, finito. I respect your choice to use and develop for Linux, and I personally choose to develop for and use BSD's, and quite often on Apple stuff, so I demand that you respect that on this mailing list. This list to discuss BSD stuff, and even all this Apple discussion is likely a bit beyond the scope of what's of interest to the NYCBUG members, let alone a discussion about Apple vs. Linux, so let's just end this thread alltogether- and pick it up over a beer next time I see you. Best, .ike From pete Wed Apr 21 09:45:14 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:45:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <3F210E0C-9398-11D8-8035-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> References: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <3F210E0C-9398-11D8-8035-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <40867AEA.7020405@nomadlogic.org> Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Sunny, All, > > So it looks like my survey for questions for my shared lecture > triggered quite a sharp spike in this thread, and an interesting and > age-old discussion about apples. > > I'll respond below, but I'm gonna' ask that if everyone wants to > continue this discussion, please start a new thread, or go offlist if > it gets firey, as this direction has sharply cut the amount of great > questions we were getting before in prep for the upcoming discussion > (btw thx for everyone who posted questions!!! Post More!!!). > thanks ike, now i can take off my asbestos pants and gloves ;^) another thing that might be fun is checking out fink on OSX. dunno know if you already had that planned tho... cheers, pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From lists Wed Apr 21 09:52:14 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:52:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Survey for upcoming 'Hacking iBook' In-Reply-To: <40867AEA.7020405@nomadlogic.org> References: <200404202134.11867.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <3F210E0C-9398-11D8-8035-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org> <40867AEA.7020405@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040421095214.066f73e3@delinux.abwatley.com> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:45:14 -0400 Pete Wright wrote: > > thanks ike, now i can take off my asbestos pants and gloves ;^) > another thing that might be fun is checking out fink on OSX. dunno > know if you already had that planned tho... > > cheers, > pete > > Same vein.. Darwin Ports... Michael -- --- From george Wed Apr 21 09:58:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:58:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] LA LUG founder resigns. . .over Linux and Iraq War Message-ID: Well, if the Apple thread wasn't enough to get your fingers tapping. . . http://technology.newsforge.com/technology/04/04/20/2229245.shtml From marco Wed Apr 21 10:26:46 2004 From: marco (marco at metm.org) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:26:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] LA LUG founder resigns. . .over Linux and Iraq War In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040421142646.GA28338@metm.org> On Wed, Apr 21, 2004 at 09:58:55AM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > Well, if the Apple thread wasn't enough to get your fingers tapping. . . > > http://technology.newsforge.com/technology/04/04/20/2229245.shtml > I'm going to quit using Linux because gangsters in East LA are running it in their TiVO's to record violent music and videos which cause them to kill each other. Linux should only be used for peace, and playing happy music. -- Marco From george Wed Apr 21 11:15:59 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:15:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: [Announce-nycbug] May & June meeting locations In-Reply-To: <4086867F.60808@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Pete Wright [mailto:pete at nomadlogic.org] >Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:35 AM >To: george at sddi.net >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org; announce-nycbug at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [Announce-nycbug] May & June meeting locations > >G. Rosamond wrote: > >>We're very happy to announce that our May 5th and June 2nd >meetings will >>be take place at Tekserve, at 119 W 23rd street, right across from our >>former meeting location. >> >>The time may change for the meeting, but we'll keep you posted. >> >>May 5th meeting is about BSD Consulting >> >>June 2nd meeting is about Hacking your iBook >> >>g >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Announce-nycbug mailing list >>Announce-nycbug at lists.nycbug.org >>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-nycbug >> >> >george does it again! thanks again george! > >-pete it's all Tekserve. . .thanks to *them*. . . The BSD's don't have the corporate support that Linux does. . .we don't have an IBM to defend us against a SCO. Heck, if we did, *we* could be suing SCO for even mentioning our name. We do, however, have a number of vendors, including Tekserve, Apple, ORA and the publishers, not to mention BSD Mall/DN, that have continually given us critical support. g From dan Wed Apr 21 22:52:38 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:52:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Got Adobe Illustrator version 11? Message-ID: <4086FB36.25602.16FBCF87@localhost> Anyone know anyone with Adobe Illustrator version 11? I have an Adobe Illustrator version 11 file which needs to be saved as for version 9. Thanks. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Fri Apr 23 15:15:16 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:15:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dru Lavigne in NYC? Message-ID: The author of BSD Hacks, soon to be released by O'Reilly and Associates, has been corresponding with ORA about her coming to NYC to speak for NYCBUG. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/73 We all really have to thank Grant for his effort and followup on this. He was the guy in the bar trying to make me drink SoCo, if somehow you slept through the last meeting. Many of us are looking forward to the release of the book May 15th, and a meeting by Dru would be an excellent event for NYCBUG. There has been a real increase in interest in the BSD's over the past year, and there has been a consequent increase in the number of books published. For those who will attend BSDCan, Dru will be there, so we can followup with her then. g From tilly Sat Apr 24 22:02:45 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:02:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames Message-ID: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Hello, I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in the rc.conf as: hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" and i am having problems looking up hostnames. This is what is in my resolv.conf domain darkorb.net search darkorb.net nameserver 216.118.116.101 nameserver 66.96.193.2 nameserver 66.96.194.2 This is also in my other server which is gentoo linux and have been using this configuration for a while. I have no clue whats wrong. I have been on the freebsd website looking for docs. I found some on setting up the network but nothing on hostname lookup. Please help, Tilly From anthony Sat Apr 24 22:09:30 2004 From: anthony (Anthony Sofia) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:09:30 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames In-Reply-To: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <20040425020930.GA24300@dryhump.net> On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:02:45PM -0400, Tilly said: >I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in the Welcome =) >hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" >ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" Do you have a default route setup? Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net) -- I'll take care of those murderous trolls. From tilly Sat Apr 24 22:12:18 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:12:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040425020930.GA24300@dryhump.net> Message-ID: <001701c42a6a$bc9fdd70$6301a8c0@TILLY> You want my routed tables right. And i do have another network card in here but i dont curently have it enabled. Tilly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Sofia" To: Cc: "Tilly" Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames > On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:02:45PM -0400, Tilly said: > >I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in the > > Welcome =) > > >hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" > >ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" > > Do you have a default route setup? > > Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net) > -- > I'll take care of those murderous trolls. > From scottro Sat Apr 24 22:13:29 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:13:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames In-Reply-To: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <20040425021329.GA2616@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:02:45PM -0400, Tilly wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in the > rc.conf as: > > hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" > ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" > > and i am having problems looking up hostnames. This is what is in my > resolv.conf > > domain darkorb.net > search darkorb.net > nameserver 216.118.116.101 > nameserver 66.96.193.2 > nameserver 66.96.194.2 Just the two obvious questions to make sure we're not overlooking something silly. Not that I (cough cough) have ever done something like this but err, uh, it happened to a friend. :) Question one--you can ping anything by IP address? Such as yahoo? (216.109.118.77) Question 2--the default gateway? For instance, my /etc/rc.conf has defaultrouter="192.168.1.1" (Although if you're able to ping yahoo.com by IP address, the gateway isn't the issue.) HTH but I doubt it will--still, never hurts to check the obvious. If you do have to add the gateway, the syntax is slightly different than linux. It's just route add default 192.168.1.1 (Assuming that was your gateway address) -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike: I did a couple of slayers in my time. I don't like to brag. Who am I kidding? I love to brag. One time, during the Boxer Rebellion... From anthony Sat Apr 24 22:17:53 2004 From: anthony (Anthony Sofia) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:17:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames In-Reply-To: <001701c42a6a$bc9fdd70$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040425020930.GA24300@dryhump.net> <001701c42a6a$bc9fdd70$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <20040425021753.GA24322@dryhump.net> On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:12:18PM -0400, Tilly said: >You want my routed tables right. And i do have another network card in here >but i dont curently have it enabled. Take Scott's advice, a bit more informative than my one liner.. Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net) -- I'll take care of those murderous trolls. From tilly Sat Apr 24 22:29:28 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:29:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040425021329.GA2616@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <002701c42a6d$223c3730$6301a8c0@TILLY> Hey It seems i dont have a gateway set. So i put in defaultrouter="192.168.1.1" right under my ifconfig_dc0 statement. Then i do a ping outside of my network and i get No route to host and this is after i saved the config file and did a /etc/rc.d/netif restart This is driving me insane. Tilly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Robbins" To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames > On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:02:45PM -0400, Tilly wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in the > > rc.conf as: > > > > hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" > > ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" > > > > and i am having problems looking up hostnames. This is what is in my > > resolv.conf > > > > domain darkorb.net > > search darkorb.net > > nameserver 216.118.116.101 > > nameserver 66.96.193.2 > > nameserver 66.96.194.2 > > Just the two obvious questions to make sure we're not overlooking > something silly. Not that I (cough cough) have ever done something like > this but err, uh, it happened to a friend. :) > > Question one--you can ping anything by IP address? Such as yahoo? > > (216.109.118.77) > > Question 2--the default gateway? For instance, my /etc/rc.conf has > > defaultrouter="192.168.1.1" > > (Although if you're able to ping yahoo.com by IP address, the gateway isn't > the issue.) > > HTH but I doubt it will--still, never hurts to check the obvious. > > If you do have to add the gateway, the syntax is slightly different than > linux. It's just > > route add default 192.168.1.1 (Assuming that was your gateway address) > > > > -- > > Scott Robbins > > PGP keyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Spike: I did a couple of slayers in my time. I don't like to > brag. Who am I kidding? I love to brag. One time, during the > Boxer Rebellion... > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From tilly Sat Apr 24 22:31:32 2004 From: tilly (Tilly) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:31:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY><20040425021329.GA2616@scottro11.homeunix.net> <002701c42a6d$223c3730$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <004101c42a6d$6be729d0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Hey Thanks scoot. I got it to work. I didnt read the last part of your message after the defaultrouter statement you made. Sorry for the incovience i may have caused. Tilly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tilly" To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames > Hey > > It seems i dont have a gateway set. So i put in > > defaultrouter="192.168.1.1" > > right under my ifconfig_dc0 statement. Then i do a ping outside of my > network and i get No route to host and this is after i saved the config file > and did a /etc/rc.d/netif restart > > This is driving me insane. > > Tilly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Robbins" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:02:45PM -0400, Tilly wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am new to bsd and i am usign bsd. I have manually setup my internet in > the > > > rc.conf as: > > > > > > hostname="bsdBOX.bsd.serversunited.com" > > > ifconfig_dc0="inet 192.168.1.95 netmask 255.255.255.0" > > > > > > and i am having problems looking up hostnames. This is what is in my > > > resolv.conf > > > > > > domain darkorb.net > > > search darkorb.net > > > nameserver 216.118.116.101 > > > nameserver 66.96.193.2 > > > nameserver 66.96.194.2 > > > > Just the two obvious questions to make sure we're not overlooking > > something silly. Not that I (cough cough) have ever done something like > > this but err, uh, it happened to a friend. :) > > > > Question one--you can ping anything by IP address? Such as yahoo? > > > > (216.109.118.77) > > > > Question 2--the default gateway? For instance, my /etc/rc.conf has > > > > defaultrouter="192.168.1.1" > > > > (Although if you're able to ping yahoo.com by IP address, the gateway > isn't > > the issue.) > > > > HTH but I doubt it will--still, never hurts to check the obvious. > > > > If you do have to add the gateway, the syntax is slightly different than > > linux. It's just > > > > route add default 192.168.1.1 (Assuming that was your gateway address) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott Robbins > > > > PGP keyID EB3467D6 > > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) > > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > > > Spike: I did a couple of slayers in my time. I don't like to > > brag. Who am I kidding? I love to brag. One time, during the > > Boxer Rebellion... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > talk mailing list > > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From scottro Sat Apr 24 23:23:05 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:23:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Problem with Hostnames In-Reply-To: <004101c42a6d$6be729d0$6301a8c0@TILLY> References: <000b01c42a69$67148ff0$6301a8c0@TILLY> <20040425021329.GA2616@scottro11.homeunix.net> <002701c42a6d$223c3730$6301a8c0@TILLY> <004101c42a6d$6be729d0$6301a8c0@TILLY> Message-ID: <20040425032305.GA2876@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sat, Apr 24, 2004 at 10:31:32PM -0400, Tilly wrote: > Hey > > Thanks scoot. I got it to work. I didnt read the last part of your message > after the defaultrouter statement you made. Sorry for the incovience i may > have caused. See, yet another reason you shouldn't top post. :) This way, you get to see all my pearls of wisdom, not to mention the random Buffy quote. [1][2] Although Outlook Express, which I see you're using, does do top posting by default, there is a way to change it in the settings somewhere. On most *nix lists, it's considered best to do inline posting, that is, reply to point A after point A, point B after point B. (I ~think~ there's a way to change that, but as I don't use it, I'm not sure) I'm only presuming to lecture because I got lucky enough to guess your problem. :) [1] Which has (modest cough) become an ArchLinux fortune module. [2] Yes, I admit I need a life, but it began as a shell scripting exercise. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Angel: Buffy. Buffy: Angel. Xander: Xander. From george Sun Apr 25 21:38:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:38:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thoughts? Message-ID: I came up with an idea. . .wondering people's thoughts. . . We could sponsor a Unix-like admin class, os-agnostic. . . Have a whole Saturday. ..5 classes. . . and use some of the local specialists . . Hans on AMP Sunney (of NYLUG) on Bash Judd Maltin on OpenLDAP etc. . . We could charge or not. . . The goal wouldn't just be training for the sake of it. . .but to actually attempt to bridge the gap between the less and more experienced. . . Thoughts? g From hans Mon Apr 26 08:23:13 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:23:13 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] next@nyphp: April Meeting - An Introduction to Clew Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8701A48E16@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> April Meeting ------------- When: April 27th, 2004 at 6:30pm Where: Digital Pulp Details: http://nyphp.org As it *finally* warms up, we have another packed meeting. An Introduction to Clew New York PHP will be presenting a short talk and hosting a discussion about the pre-release beta version of Clew - Conversationally Linked Email and other Writings at our next general meeting, Tuesday, April 27. A 20 minute briefing, given by Chris Snyder and Hans Zaunere, will serve as an introduction to Clew. The talk will be followed by an open discussion moderated by Hans. Join us for this introduction to the powerful new hybrid mailing list, web forum and hypertext publishing system Clew - which is the framework for the upcoming re-release of the New York PHP website and mailing lists. Clew ties nodes into threads, making it ideally suited for building message boards and mailing lists allowing users to access discussions through a web interface and/or receive/repond to them as if from a traditional mailing list. Utilizing roles-based administration, users can subscribe to the interface on a per thread or area of interest basis. Clew is based on Hans Zaunere's implementation of a nested set model in PHP+MySQL, aka pNSM and has also adopted Zaunere's pAuth, a roles-based authorization system, and pMime, an mime-message processor. While Chris Snyder has been responsible for the clew-specific PHP classes, many other members of New York PHP have contributed to the development of clew. Clew is not only the foundation for the latest release of the New York PHP website, but also lays the groundwork for our re-structuring into a more productive and supportive organization. Join us for a discussion on how New York PHP is re-organizing into four distinct but collaborative departments better suited for open-source development projects. Also, find out where you can fit in and what resources are currently available and will become available, including, but not limited to Phundamentals and RAMP training. SAMS Publishing, our latest sponsor, has been kind enough to provide us with books to raffle off. Come prepared with a business card to enter the drawing. When: Tuesday, April 27th, at 6:30pm (4th Tuesday of every month) Where: Digital Pulp, Inc. 220 East 23rd Street, Suite 900 (9th floor) As always this meeting is free and open to the public - please be sure to RSVP by sending a message to rsvp at nyphp.org. -------------- New York PHP From dan Mon Apr 26 10:47:52 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:47:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Got Adobe Illustrator version 11? Message-ID: <408CE8D8.32685.2E24778D@localhost> On 21 Apr 2004 at 22:52, Dan Langille wrote: > Anyone know anyone with Adobe Illustrator version 11? I have an Adobe > Illustrator version 11 file which needs to be saved as for version 9. I'm all set now. FWIW, this was the graphics for the BSDCan t-shirt, which will be based upon the graphics you see at http://www.bsdcan.org/ Thanks! -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From kit Mon Apr 26 13:46:32 2004 From: kit (Kit Halsted) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:46:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fibre Channel Stuff Message-ID: Way OT, I know, but this is the only resource that comes to mind in this emergency... Does anybody know where to get SFP <-> SFP cables in Manhattan? Trying to fix a huge (lost a Terabyte!) fiasco & Apple's gone & changed the *&^%$%*&^ connectors for the 2nd generation of Xserve RAID... Thx, -Kit -- Everybody knows me, Down at the local bar, I drink until I can't see, And I wonder where you are. -Reverend Horton Heat, "Liquor, Beer, & Wine" From aron Mon Apr 26 13:53:17 2004 From: aron (Aron Roberts) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:53:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fibre Channel Stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98E142FA-97AA-11D8-B18B-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> I don't think they are in Manhattan but Graybar should have what you need. On Apr 26, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Kit Halsted wrote: > Way OT, I know, but this is the only resource that comes to mind in > this emergency... > > Does anybody know where to get SFP <-> SFP cables in Manhattan? Trying > to fix a huge (lost a Terabyte!) fiasco & Apple's gone & changed the > *&^%$%*&^ connectors for the 2nd generation of Xserve RAID... > > Thx, > -Kit > -- > Everybody knows me, > Down at the local bar, > I drink until I can't see, > And I wonder where you are. -Reverend Horton Heat, "Liquor, Beer, & > Wine" > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From ike Mon Apr 26 14:52:56 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:52:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fibre Channel Stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 26, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Kit Halsted wrote: > Way OT, I know, but this is the only resource that comes to mind in > this emergency... > > Does anybody know where to get SFP <-> SFP cables in Manhattan? Trying > to fix a huge (lost a Terabyte!) fiasco & Apple's gone & changed the > *&^%$%*&^ connectors for the 2nd generation of Xserve RAID... > If it's an emergency, and it's Apple, you've likely tried Tekserve and the Apple Store, (Apple store less likely for Fibre Cnahhel goodies- but ya' never know). http://www.tekserve.com/about/hours.html http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/ Good Luck- .ike From aron Mon Apr 26 16:07:05 2004 From: aron (Aron Roberts) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:07:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fibre Channel Stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A325719-97BD-11D8-B18B-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> I just noticed B&H has them in stock. so no reason Tekserve shouldn't either. On Apr 26, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > > On Apr 26, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Kit Halsted wrote: > >> Way OT, I know, but this is the only resource that comes to mind in >> this emergency... >> >> Does anybody know where to get SFP <-> SFP cables in Manhattan? >> Trying to fix a huge (lost a Terabyte!) fiasco & Apple's gone & >> changed the *&^%$%*&^ connectors for the 2nd generation of Xserve >> RAID... >> > > If it's an emergency, and it's Apple, you've likely tried Tekserve and > the Apple Store, (Apple store less likely for Fibre Cnahhel goodies- > but ya' never know). > > http://www.tekserve.com/about/hours.html > > http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/ > > Good Luck- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From trish Mon Apr 26 18:50:54 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thoughts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040426184945.V79124@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > I came up with an idea. . .wondering people's thoughts. . . > > We could sponsor a Unix-like admin class, os-agnostic. . . > > Have a whole Saturday. ..5 classes. . . and use some of the local > specialists . . > > Hans on AMP > Sunney (of NYLUG) on Bash > Judd Maltin on OpenLDAP > > etc. . . > > We could charge or not. . . > > The goal wouldn't just be training for the sake of it. . .but to > actually attempt to bridge the gap between the less and more > experienced. . . > > Thoughts? > > g > I have no propblem teaching basic (or even advanced) system administration..... I can even do high availability... you asked me when I would come and do NYCBUG, that would be a fun thing. make it a fundraiser for NYCBUG's coffers and I'm totally all for it. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From kit Mon Apr 26 19:34:39 2004 From: kit (Kit Halsted) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:34:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fibre Channel Stuff In-Reply-To: <4A325719-97BD-11D8-B18B-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> References: <4A325719-97BD-11D8-B18B-000393DEEF4A@slam.cc> Message-ID: Meant to send this to the list, not just Aron... Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. B&H?!?! Cool, thanks! Never would've thought to try them. Tekserve was the 1st place I tried, no dice. Apple Store doesn't stock 'em, DataVision wanted to sell me SP-DIF cables, & CompUSA, well, it's CompUSA... -Kit For anybody who's keeping track, it turns out there's really no rush on the cables: the arrays won't be initialized until about 10 PM Tuesday, which should be about 12 hours after the cables arrive from Apple. At 4:07 PM -0400 4/26/04, Aron Roberts wrote: >I just noticed B&H has them in stock. > >so no reason Tekserve shouldn't either. > > >On Apr 26, 2004, at 2:52 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> >>On Apr 26, 2004, at 1:46 PM, Kit Halsted wrote: >> >>>Way OT, I know, but this is the only resource that comes to mind >>>in this emergency... >>> >>>Does anybody know where to get SFP <-> SFP cables in Manhattan? >>>Trying to fix a huge (lost a Terabyte!) fiasco & Apple's gone & >>>changed the *&^%$%*&^ connectors for the 2nd generation of Xserve >>>RAID... >>> >> >>If it's an emergency, and it's Apple, you've likely tried Tekserve >>and the Apple Store, (Apple store less likely for Fibre Cnahhel >>goodies- but ya' never know). >> >>http://www.tekserve.com/about/hours.html >> >>http://www.apple.com/retail/soho/ >> >>Good Luck- >>.ike >> >>_______________________________________________ >>talk mailing list >>talk at lists.nycbug.org >>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "...qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum" (...if you would have peace, be prepared for war) -Flavius Vegetius Renatus From george Mon Apr 26 19:38:09 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:38:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thoughts? In-Reply-To: <20040426184945.V79124@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: >I have no propblem teaching basic (or even advanced) system >administration..... I can even do high availability... No doubt you'd be awesome. . . The areas I'm thinking are. . . AMP BASH/scripting Unix Security OpenLDAP Unix Structure/'think unix' mail backups (yeah, yeah, i know it's seven) >you asked me when I would come and do NYCBUG, that would be a >fun thing. You'd do an awesome meeting, no doubt. . . Let's discuss offlist some topics. . . For those who don't know, "Trish" is the former founder of the old BSD User group in NYC. . .until he moved away. . . He's been known to put BSD devices in firms that you wouldn't expect to run BSD. >make it a fundraiser for NYCBUG's coffers and I'm totally all for it. We don't have a bank account yet, but it's something to deal with in the near future. g From trish Mon Apr 26 20:43:40 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thoughts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040426204218.P79124@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > For those who don't know, "Trish" is the former founder of the old BSD > User group in NYC. . .until he moved away. . . > we'll discuss pronouns soon, most who have been around a while know the deal ;) > He's been known to put BSD devices in firms that you wouldn't expect to > run BSD. > heh, yeah like the former VA Linux.... > >make it a fundraiser for NYCBUG's coffers and I'm totally all for it. > > We don't have a bank account yet, but it's something to deal with in the > near future. > definitely, it would enable NYCBUG to really do interesting things ;) > g > -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From hans Tue Apr 27 14:29:27 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:29:27 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] TONIGHT@nyphp: CeBIT America FREE Pass; An Introduction to Clew Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8701A49766@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> April Meeting - An Introduction to Clew --------------------------------------- When: April 27th, 2004 at 6:30pm Where: Digital Pulp Details: http://nyphp.org As it *finally* warms up, we have another packed meeting. An Introduction to Clew New York PHP will be presenting a short talk and hosting a discussion about the pre-release beta version of Clew - Conversationally Linked Email and other Writings at our next general meeting, Tuesday, April 27. A 20 minute briefing, given by Chris Snyder and Hans Zaunere, will serve as an introduction to Clew. The talk will be followed by an open discussion moderated by Hans. Join us for this introduction to the powerful new hybrid mailing list, web forum and hypertext publishing system Clew - which is the framework for the upcoming re-release of the New York PHP website and mailing lists. Clew ties nodes into threads, making it ideally suited for building message boards and mailing lists allowing users to access discussions through a web interface and/or receive/repond to them as if from a traditional mailing list. Utilizing roles-based administration, users can subscribe to the interface on a per thread or area of interest basis. Clew is based on Hans Zaunere's implementation of a nested set model in PHP+MySQL, aka pNSM and has also adopted Zaunere's pAuth, a roles-based authorization system, and pMime, an mime-message processor. While Chris Snyder has been responsible for the clew-specific PHP classes, many other members of New York PHP have contributed to the development of clew. Clew is not only the foundation for the latest release of the New York PHP website, but also lays the groundwork for our re-structuring into a more productive and supportive organization. Join us for a discussion on how New York PHP is re-organizing into four distinct but collaborative departments better suited for open-source development projects. Also, find out where you can fit in and what resources are currently available and will become available, including, but not limited to Phundamentals and RAMP training. SAMS Publishing, our latest sponsor, has been kind enough to provide us with books to raffle off. Come prepared with a business card to enter the drawing. When: Tuesday, April 27th, at 6:30pm (4th Tuesday of every month) Where: Digital Pulp, Inc. 220 East 23rd Street, Suite 900 (9th floor) As always this meeting is free and open to the public - please be sure to RSVP by sending a message to rsvp at nyphp.org. CeBIT America Conference Pass Raffle ------------------------------------ We are partnering with CeBIT America for their upcoming three day show and conference at the Javits Center in New York City, May 25-27th. To kick things off, we are going to raffle off a full conference pass at tonight's meeting. This pass is valued at $590. For conference details, check out http://www.cebit-america.com/. If you can't make it to the meeting and are planning on attending the conference, use our form, http://community.nyphp.org/CeBIT-NYPHP.pdf and get 15% off the regular price. -------------- New York PHP From lists Wed Apr 28 09:26:46 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:26:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] DistroWatch on FreeBSD Message-ID: <20040428092646.43bb24a2@delinux.abwatley.com> Well done, DistroWatch.com FreeBSD - The Power to Serve, by Robert Storey http://www.distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=review-freebsd -- ---