From lists Sun Aug 1 07:13:10 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 07:13:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] X and screen. was: BSD on a desktop In-Reply-To: <20180B1D-E31C-11D8-857E-000393BC62B8@nomadlogic.org> References:

<20040731164554.GA27567@scottro11.homeunix.net> <20040731140123.150768b4@bogomips.optonline.net> <20180B1D-E31C-11D8-857E-000393BC62B8@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <410CD046.1080003@genoverly.net> on 20040731 2:04 PM pete wright had written... > > hey marc, > here is a dumb question...can you run say Xterm in a screen session, > detach the session (along with xterm) then re-attach the session > somewhere else and have the xterm come back. i've tried it out, but > have a feeling that it's not possible or i'm missing a swtich somewhere. > > -p > Pete, I'm also a big fan of screen. The 2 main situations I use it are 1.) ssh into a remote server- start a screen session - do stuff, maybe kick off a long compile, dettach. I can then go to work- ssh into that server and reattach. The process has been running and I can pick up where I left off. 2.) I was uncomfortable with running x on a workstation then walking away. Anyone could kill the session and drop down to a prompt... with my credentials. So, I actually use it everytime I run startx. May would say a common solution would be to use a display manager like XDM, KDM, GDM but.. Common solutions are not always the right ones or the most secure ones. I may be wrong, but, as far as I know: -- Display mgrs require you to run X.. there are many times I just don't want to -- Display mgrs require you to launch X as root. -- Display mgrs control your machine.. it is very difficult to close X and drop to a prompt... say, if you were going to do a large compile and wanted to free up some overhead I wanted to secure my workstation, but, I didn't want to loose access to my console altogether. Option "DontVTSwitch" "true" Option "DontZap" "true" ... would have required a reboot in case something went wrong with X. Disabling "magic sysreq key" and ctrl+alt+del could also lock me out of my own box... except for the Power button and the wall plug. My answer was to use a very familiar utility called 'screen'. 1) I logon as a user (not root) 2) type 'screen', and I'm given a new prompt 3) at the new prompt I type 'startx'. Which ever WM/DE is set in the .xinitrc loads (KDE, GNOME, fluxbox...etc). 4) takes me back to the 'screen' prompt. 5) " d" to detach ('man screen' for more) and I'm back at the original prompt. 6) from here I can 'logout'... the logon prompt appears. 7) takes me back to the WM/DE I only have to do this once for each re-boot, which is not often. Now I can use any X screensaver/lock I choose. I can walk away from my desk knowing X is locked and the box is secured. Without my password, noone can use my credentials. If they need the box, they can log in themselves. I can also recover from any X mishaps more gracefully than a re-boot. Michael From lists Sun Aug 1 07:26:38 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 07:26:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <410CD36E.4040900@genoverly.net> on 20040731 11:53 AM pete wright had written... > ...pete strap's on his asbestos fireman suit.... > For me it's really the tabbed shells that won me over with using GNOME > or KDE. You can use tab's in gnome-term, but it's kinda crappy compared > to konsole. if you have not tried it out, the default shortcut is > ctl+shift+t to make a new tab, and shift+left/right arrow key moves from > tab to tab. > To empathize... I migrated from KDE to fluxbox a while back but really missed konsole tabs. I know I could use 'screen' for this purpose but I was used to fact I could see all the tabs and know which one was logged on to the database and which one was ssh'd here or there. I also liked to to move around. I spent a few weeks trying out different terms (x,a,e, etc) and settled on aterm. No outstanding reason, it just suits me. It seems quick and light, is highly customizable, and generally not distracting. I want to concentrate on the work, not the term (or the root window for that matter). I customized my .Xdefaults for bg, fg, cursor color, etc. I could put all the custom stuff there, I guess I really haven't completely settled on dimensions and fonts and... whatever to be the default for all terms. I made a few adjustments to my .xinitrc so 3 terms would launch right away. aterm -sb -sr -g 115x30+50+200 -fn 9x15 -fb 9x15 --saveLines 15000 & aterm -sb -sr -g 115x30+50+200 -fn 9x15 -fb 9x15 --saveLines 15000 & aterm -sb -sr -g 115x30+50+200 -fn 9x15 -fb 9x15 --saveLines 15000 & And then made some changes in fluxbox... So they would be grouped, I added "aterm aterm" to my group file. This is also handy because anytime I open a new aterm it will be added to my existing group. To me, this is a *huge* benefit of fluxbox. After that I added some entries to the keys file to mimic konsole tab movement: Shift Right :NextTab Shift Left :PrevTab So it may not be the Perfect Term, but it works for me. Michael From pete Sun Aug 1 11:58:38 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 10:58:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports [was re: BSD on a desktop] In-Reply-To: <20040731221427.GA8138@yinaska.pair.com> References: <20040731221427.GA8138@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <410D132E.2030409@nomadlogic.org> Okan Demirmen wrote: > >anyway, i'm not here to start a war or anything, but i just want to >point that out on openbsd. now, it's been a while for me on netbsd, so >i'm sure someone will clarify for us what netbsd does...i'm sure it's >close or similar to openbsd's build infrastructure. > > > yea that is YANTAO (yet another nice thing about Obsd ;). You can achieve similar results, if you are a member of the group wheel, by allowing wheel to write to the ports tree. i don't have the ports tree installed on any of my OpenBSD machines right now, how do they handle the download and extracting of source code? Also, I thought NetBSD used pkgsrc tho, while OpenBSD uses a FreeBSD ports. man 7 ports(OpenBSD): " The OpenBSD Ports Collection (shamelessly stolen from the FreeBSD Ports Collection) offers a simple way for users and administrators to install applications." -p -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From okan Sun Aug 1 17:09:05 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:09:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] X and screen. was: BSD on a desktop In-Reply-To: <410CD046.1080003@genoverly.net> References:

<20040731164554.GA27567@scottro11.homeunix.net> <20040731140123.150768b4@bogomips.optonline.net> <20180B1D-E31C-11D8-857E-000393BC62B8@nomadlogic.org> <410CD046.1080003@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040801210905.GA10658@yinaska.pair.com> On Sun 2004.08.01 at 07:13 -0400, michael wrote: > on 20040731 2:04 PM pete wright had written... > > > > >hey marc, > > here is a dumb question...can you run say Xterm in a screen session, > >detach the session (along with xterm) then re-attach the session > >somewhere else and have the xterm come back. i've tried it out, but > >have a feeling that it's not possible or i'm missing a swtich somewhere. > > > >-p > > > > Pete, > I'm also a big fan of screen. The 2 main situations I use it are > > 1.) ssh into a remote server- start a screen session - do stuff, maybe > kick off a long compile, dettach. I can then go to work- ssh into that > server and reattach. The process has been running and I can pick up > where I left off. > > 2.) I was uncomfortable with running x on a workstation then walking > away. Anyone could kill the session and drop down to a prompt... with > my credentials. So, I actually use it everytime I run startx. May > would say a common solution would be to use a display manager like XDM, > KDM, GDM but.. Common solutions are not always the right ones or the > most secure ones. I may be wrong, but, as far as I know: and only in the spirit of alternatives, one may start x, backgrounded, and exit from the console: startx & then exit shell or depending on your setup okan > -- Display mgrs require you to run X.. there are many times I just don't > want to > -- Display mgrs require you to launch X as root. > -- Display mgrs control your machine.. it is very difficult to close X > and drop to a prompt... say, if you were going to do a large compile and > wanted to free up some overhead > > I wanted to secure my workstation, but, I didn't want to loose access to > my console altogether. > > Option "DontVTSwitch" "true" > Option "DontZap" "true" > > ... would have required a reboot in case something went wrong with X. > Disabling "magic sysreq key" and ctrl+alt+del could also lock me out of > my own box... except for the Power button and the wall plug. > > My answer was to use a very familiar utility called 'screen'. > > 1) I logon as a user (not root) > 2) type 'screen', and I'm given a new prompt > 3) at the new prompt I type 'startx'. Which ever WM/DE is set in the > .xinitrc loads (KDE, GNOME, fluxbox...etc). > 4) takes me back to the 'screen' prompt. > 5) "

d" to detach ('man screen' for more) and I'm back at the > original prompt. > 6) from here I can 'logout'... the logon prompt appears. > 7) takes me back to the WM/DE > > I only have to do this once for each re-boot, which is not often. > > Now I can use any X screensaver/lock I choose. I can walk away from my > desk knowing X is locked and the box is secured. Without my password, > noone can use my credentials. If they need the box, they can log in > themselves. I can also recover from any X mishaps more gracefully than a > re-boot. > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From george Mon Aug 2 00:04:58 2004 From: george (G.Rosamond) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:04:58 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source Message-ID: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. Thoughts? g From jesse Mon Aug 2 00:45:33 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 00:45:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:04 AM, G.Rosamond wrote: > http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 > > The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author > repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. > > Thoughts? > > g > "In researching this article I met with hurdles that almost made me give up on writing it." - newsforge.com article 4/7/28/2057223 I guess that money from the Open Group made you think twice, huh. This is pretty crazy. I like that he hints that Windows could be certified with some code revamping. It's an amusing thought. The whole article is rather uninformed and not newsworthy. It's an ad with bad information. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 781 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040802/c705d0f8/attachment.bin From sunny-ml Mon Aug 2 07:03:56 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:03:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <200408020703.57329.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Monday 02 August 2004 12:04 am, G.Rosamond wrote: > http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 > > The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author > repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. > > Thoughts? > Linux has been certified POSIX.1. It was done by a company called Lasemoon. No one cared about linux being POSIX, and the company tanked. Apparently another german company called Unifix Software seems to have continued with this POSIX compliancy effort, and it seems not too many people take notice of this either. IMO customers just don't care about SUS/POSIX as they used to anymore. Sunny Dubey From george Mon Aug 2 08:38:36 2004 From: george (G.Rosamond) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:38:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:45 AM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:04 AM, G.Rosamond wrote: > >> http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 >> >> The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author >> repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> g >> > > "In researching this article I met with hurdles that almost made me > give up on writing it." - newsforge.com article 4/7/28/2057223 > > I guess that money from the Open Group made you think twice, huh. > > This is pretty crazy. I like that he hints that Windows could be > certified with some code revamping. It's an amusing thought. The whole > article is rather uninformed and not newsworthy. It's an ad with bad > information. It's actually a funny article, IMO. GNU's not Unix could be Unix-certified? I think there's a tendency to put the Unix certification process on an altar. . .either as a throwback to the past or as a self-defense to the SCO run-around. Fundamentally, the clearest thing to me is the spirit of the Unix tradition, which is not about costly processes and hollow labels, but rather about dynamic, open development, in addition to allegiance to the standard Unix development models and principles. The perception of traditional Unix being over-priced but amazingly stable and secure is a more recent phenomena than the public-at-large thinks. . . Everyone should take the opportunity to speak to Brian, Bubette and others from the Lower East Side Mac Unix Users Group (lesmuug.org). While some people in NYCBUG have attended their meetings and are even long-time members of it, those of you who have not heard about the old Bell Labs days might learn a bit. LESMUUG is not a group of people looking for Quark shortcuts. There are some technical heavy-hitters there who always cause my mind to race when they speak. For instance, I heard about Brian's opinion of "open source" via a third party (Big I): there's nothing new about it, it's always been the way Unix development happened. It was just labelled 'open source' in the 1990's. This was also mentioned by Peter Salus several times at USENIX. . . g -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2230 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040802/e4f0105b/attachment.bin From pete Mon Aug 2 11:03:17 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:03:17 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: <200408020703.57329.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200408020703.57329.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <410E57B5.7000908@nomadlogic.org> Sunny Dubey wrote: >On Monday 02 August 2004 12:04 am, G.Rosamond wrote: > > >>http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 >> >>The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author >>repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. >> >>Thoughts? >> >> >> > >Linux has been certified POSIX.1. It was done by a company called Lasemoon. >No one cared about linux being POSIX, and the company tanked. Apparently >another german company called Unifix Software seems to have continued with >this POSIX compliancy effort, and it seems not too many people take notice of >this either. > >IMO customers just don't care about SUS/POSIX as they used to anymore. > > which is funny, because POSIX standards really say alot more about a system than "Unix." -p -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete member: NYCBUG www.nycbug.org New York City's BSD User Group From pete Mon Aug 2 11:24:13 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:24:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net>

Message-ID: <410E5C9D.5040302@nomadlogic.org> G.Rosamond wrote: > > > On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:45 AM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > > On Aug 2, 2004, at 12:04 AM, G.Rosamond wrote: > > http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/2057223 > > The article is titled "can gnu ever be unix?", but the author > repeatedly refers to gnu and bsds. > > Thoughts? > > g > > > "In researching this article I met with hurdles that almost made > me give up on writing it." - newsforge.com article 4/7/28/2057223 > > I guess that money from the Open Group made you think twice, huh. > > This is pretty crazy. I like that he hints that Windows could be > certified with some code revamping. It's an amusing thought. The > whole article is rather uninformed and not newsworthy. It's an ad > with bad information. > > > It's actually a funny article, IMO. > > GNU's not Unix could be Unix-certified? I think there's a tendency to > put the Unix certification process on an altar. . .either as a > throwback to the past or as a self-defense to the SCO run-around. > > Fundamentally, the clearest thing to me is the spirit of the Unix > tradition, which is not about costly processes and hollow labels, but > rather about dynamic, open development, in addition to allegiance to > the standard Unix development models and principles. The perception of > traditional Unix being over-priced but amazingly stable and secure is > a more recent phenomena than the public-at-large thinks. . . > > Everyone should take the opportunity to speak to Brian, Bubette and > others from the Lower East Side Mac Unix Users Group (lesmuug.org). > While some people in NYCBUG have attended their meetings and are even > long-time members of it, those of you who have not heard about the old > Bell Labs days might learn a bit. LESMUUG is not a group of people > looking for Quark shortcuts. There are some technical heavy-hitters > there who always cause my mind to race when they speak. > > For instance, I heard about Brian's opinion of "open source" via a > third party (Big I): there's nothing new about it, it's always been > the way Unix development happened. It was just labelled 'open source' > in the 1990's. This was also mentioned by Peter Salus several times at > USENIX. . . > I agree with you pretty much George, Unix Cert. just tastes like getting that sticker on your software that states "Windows Certified." I mean shoot, if you look at the open groups list of certified systems it's just Solaris on Sun/AIX on Power with one Tru64 on Alpha thrown in there. I think there are two distinct concepts that we have to keep clear here tho. GNU and "open source." Open source, if I remember my history correctly (or is it current events), was a label made up by a bunch of gnu/linux folks in Cali. including Eric Raymond. I think they did not intend for it be any different than "the unix way," just another way of looking at it. I think what they really wanted was to put a more business like appearance on the who whole GNU/FSF thing. On the other hand we got Stallman and GNU, and frankly it doesn't matter if like him or hate him I can't imagine the FSF letting the GNU system get "Unix Certified." -p -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete member: NYCBUG www.nycbug.org New York City's BSD User Group From mlists Mon Aug 2 10:46:46 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:46:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article on Unix and open source In-Reply-To: <410E5C9D.5040302@nomadlogic.org> References: <1ECCB85D-E439-11D8-9DB8-000D9328615E@sddi.net>

Message-ID: <000901c48be4$f540de50$6400a8c0@olympus> : Are you sure? I swear I have a box labeled cat 6 in my closet. Check out Home Depot. CAT6 in either 500' or 1k'. Usually right next to the old CAT5e stuff us old timers used to use :) -Kevin From dave-dated-1094221711.986982 Fri Aug 27 10:28:51 2004 From: dave-dated-1094221711.986982 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:28:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> > DB-25 (big) to DB-9 (little) is not a null modem, it is just an > adapter. > You want null modem, DB-9 to DB-9. It is commonplace enough that even > staples/compusa has it. On this topic, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a set of RJ45-DB9 adapters. Most that I've seen are designed to work with rollover (flat) cables, but it makes a lot more sense to me to use a standard cat5 cable and do the magic stuff in the adapter. Anyone? :-) Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From alex Fri Aug 27 09:42:05 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: > > DB-25 (big) to DB-9 (little) is not a null modem, it is just an > > adapter. You want null modem, DB-9 to DB-9. It is commonplace enough > > that even staples/compusa has it. > > On this topic, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a set of > RJ45-DB9 adapters. Most that I've seen are designed to work with > rollover (flat) cables, but it makes a lot more sense to me to use a > standard cat5 cable and do the magic stuff in the adapter. Anyone? > :-) ebay is your friend for "db-9 modular adapters". I think I bought lot of 50 for 25$ or so, last time. -alex From dave-dated-1094232490.65cc91 Fri Aug 27 13:28:31 2004 From: dave-dated-1094232490.65cc91 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:28:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84163CCC-F84E-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> >> On this topic, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a set of >> RJ45-DB9 adapters. Most that I've seen are designed to work with >> rollover (flat) cables, but it makes a lot more sense to me to use a >> standard cat5 cable and do the magic stuff in the adapter. Anyone? >> :-) > ebay is your friend for "db-9 modular adapters". I think I bought lot > of > 50 for 25$ or so, last time. I'm always scared that I'll get the wrong kind, since they seem really sensitive to serial layouts and cable types. I've never actually known anyone who can buy them with confidence, except from an approved vendor. Plus I don't want to sit there rewiring those tiny little things for hours if I do get it wrong. If there is an elegant way to do such a thing, I will buy several beers for the person who shows me! :-) Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From alex Fri Aug 27 12:40:46 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: <84163CCC-F84E-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: > I'm always scared that I'll get the wrong kind, since they seem really > sensitive to serial layouts and cable types. I've never actually known > anyone who can buy them with confidence, except from an approved vendor. There isn't a standard. That's why modular are great, configure to whatever vendor you have. > Plus I don't want to sit there rewiring those tiny little things for > hours if I do get it wrong. If there is an elegant way to do such a > thing, I will buy several beers for the person who shows me! :-) If you have large quantity, doing it manually sucks indeed. But on other hand, its much easier than crimping cat5 in correct colour order ;) -alex From spork Fri Aug 27 13:37:10 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> References: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: > On this topic, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a set of RJ45-DB9 > adapters. Most that I've seen are designed to work with rollover (flat) > cables, but it makes a lot more sense to me to use a standard cat5 cable and > do the magic stuff in the adapter. Anyone? :-) You can make whatever you need quite cheaply with this stuff: http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/modularadaptors.htm Great source if you're building a console server. :) Charles > Regards, > -- > Dave Steinberg > http://www.geekisp.com/ > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From dave-dated-1094233803.ddb74f Fri Aug 27 13:50:24 2004 From: dave-dated-1094233803.ddb74f (Dave Steinberg) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:50:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: References: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: <92F6BEDA-F851-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> > You can make whatever you need quite cheaply with this stuff: > > http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/modularadaptors.htm > > Great source if you're building a console server. :) Cheap, sure... but its so hard! Assuming I've done my homework and I know the pinouts on both sides, how do I map the cable colors to pin locations? I certainly can't see inside that little hood that encloses the rj-45 adapter. :-/ Any way I might be able to build a cable tester for this sort of thing? If the tester was $200, I'd still think it a bargain in the long run. Thanks for the resources so far! -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From alex Fri Aug 27 13:04:17 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: <92F6BEDA-F851-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: > > You can make whatever you need quite cheaply with this stuff: > > > > http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/modularadaptors.htm > > > > Great source if you're building a console server. :) > > Cheap, sure... but its so hard! Assuming I've done my homework and I > know the pinouts on both sides, how do I map the cable colors to pin > locations? I certainly can't see inside that little hood that encloses > the rj-45 adapter. :-/ Just do it once to determine color-rj45 pin mapping. Or sometimes there's a piece of paper that lists it. > > Any way I might be able to build a cable tester for this sort of thing? > If the tester was $200, I'd still think it a bargain in the long run. > > Thanks for the resources so far! > From spork Fri Aug 27 14:05:19 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: <92F6BEDA-F851-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> References: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> <92F6BEDA-F851-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: >> You can make whatever you need quite cheaply with this stuff: >> >> http://www.national-tech.com/catalog/modularadaptors.htm >> >> Great source if you're building a console server. :) > > Cheap, sure... but its so hard! Assuming I've done my homework and I know > the pinouts on both sides, how do I map the cable colors to pin locations? I > certainly can't see inside that little hood that encloses the rj-45 adapter. > :-/ Sure you can! The DB9 end comes out and you can look down into the hood and see what's what. Write it down once and you're all set. Once you have your pinouts set, these can be put together very quickly - there's no soldering, just jam the pins into the db9 end and snap it back together. The DB9 end does have numbers that correspond to the pins... Charles > Any way I might be able to build a cable tester for this sort of thing? If > the tester was $200, I'd still think it a bargain in the long run. > > Thanks for the resources so far! > -- > Dave Steinberg > http://www.geekisp.com/ > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From dave-dated-1094235031.b6b575 Fri Aug 27 14:10:51 2004 From: dave-dated-1094235031.b6b575 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:10:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] null modem vendor... In-Reply-To: References: <6A80D37A-F835-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> <92F6BEDA-F851-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: <6E0EF908-F854-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> > Sure you can! The DB9 end comes out and you can look down into the > hood and see what's what. Write it down once and you're all set. > Once you have your pinouts set, these can be put together very quickly > - there's no soldering, just jam the pins into the db9 end and snap it > back together. The DB9 end does have numbers that correspond to the > pins... Ok, ok - you and Alex have convinced me. I'll get a couple of these and invest some time. :-) -- Dave From dave-dated-1094242613.d47143 Fri Aug 27 16:17:13 2004 From: dave-dated-1094242613.d47143 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:17:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Chuck Yerkes has died Message-ID: <1535B568-F866-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> For any of you who read the various other BSD and Soekris lists, you may have come across a gem of an individual, Chuck Yerkes, who has passed away: http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/9511974.htm http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=109362605529952&w=2 The latter is forwarded from the soekris tech lists, it is Eric Allman's confirmation of the news. -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From trish Fri Aug 27 23:50:19 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Chuck Yerkes has died In-Reply-To: <1535B568-F866-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> References: <1535B568-F866-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: <20040827234643.O14819@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Dave Steinberg wrote: > For any of you who read the various other BSD and Soekris lists, you > may have come across a gem of an individual, Chuck Yerkes, who has > passed away: > I do not find this off topic at all as Chuck was a valuable member of the BSD, USENIX/SAGE, and other computing communties. He will be missed. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From kit Sat Aug 28 00:05:24 2004 From: kit (Kit Halsted) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:05:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Chuck Yerkes has died In-Reply-To: <1535B568-F866-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> References: <1535B568-F866-11D8-9845-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> Message-ID: R.I.P., Chuck! Wow, that hit me hard, as someone who had a lot of respect for Chuck and as a motorcyclist. Sucks. -Kit At 4:17 PM -0400 8/27/04, Dave Steinberg wrote: >For any of you who read the various other BSD and Soekris lists, you >may have come across a gem of an individual, Chuck Yerkes, who has >passed away: > >http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/9511974.htm > >http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=109362605529952&w=2 > >The latter is forwarded from the soekris tech lists, it is Eric >Allman's confirmation of the news. -- "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin "...qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum" (...if you would have peace, be prepared for war) -Flavius Vegetius Renatus From joshmccormack Sat Aug 28 15:41:27 2004 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:41:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.5 on Thinkpad 360x - can't revive after powersave sleep Message-ID: <4130DFE7.5030102@travelersdiary.com> When running fvwm on OpenBSD 3.5 on a Thinkpad 360x, if the computer goes into powersave sleep mode, it cannot be revived. When not in X it comes back. Can't do anything in the BIOS to help. Any ideas? Josh From george Sat Aug 28 17:13:21 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:13:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] using tcsh Message-ID: <20040828211321.GA9773@trot.local> /* Regards to the friends and family of Chuck Yerkes, RIP. */ I've been over the tcsh man and other sources numerous times but have been unable to save and restore tcsh command line history through exit and next login. 'set savehist' in ~/.tcshrc is all I'd expect be required, but I've been doing various things with 'histfile' too; the functionality I'm looking for is 'savehist 1000 merge' -- how do I know when to use 'set' vs 'setenv'? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From mspitze1 Sat Aug 28 19:01:28 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:01:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] using tcsh In-Reply-To: <20040828211321.GA9773@trot.local> References: <20040828211321.GA9773@trot.local> Message-ID: <20040828190128.31df95e8@bogomips.optonline.net> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:13:21 -0400 George Georgalis wrote: > /* Regards to the friends and family of Chuck Yerkes, RIP. */ > > I've been over the tcsh man and other sources numerous times but have > been unable to save and restore tcsh command line history through exit > and next login. > > 'set savehist' in ~/.tcshrc is all I'd expect be required, but I've > been doing various things with 'histfile' too; the functionality I'm > looking for is 'savehist 1000 merge' -- how do I know when to use > 'set' vs 'setenv'? > Being that I have a severe dislike of csh and its derivatives this may not be 100% accurate, but: set == when you want it available in this shell and only in this shell setenv == when you want it available in this shell and any child processes of this shell see here for reasons why csh is bad: http://frmb.org/csh_whynot.html tcsh is better then csh but that is just not saying much. If you want to learn a portable shell look at korn or posix sh. marc From george Sat Aug 28 19:37:54 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:37:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] using tcsh In-Reply-To: <20040828190128.31df95e8@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <20040828211321.GA9773@trot.local> <20040828190128.31df95e8@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040828233754.GA10555@trot.local> On Sat, Aug 28, 2004 at 07:01:28PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: >On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:13:21 -0400 >George Georgalis wrote: > >> /* Regards to the friends and family of Chuck Yerkes, RIP. */ >> >> I've been over the tcsh man and other sources numerous times but have >> been unable to save and restore tcsh command line history through exit >> and next login. >> >> 'set savehist' in ~/.tcshrc is all I'd expect be required, but I've >> been doing various things with 'histfile' too; the functionality I'm >> looking for is 'savehist 1000 merge' -- how do I know when to use >> 'set' vs 'setenv'? >> > >Being that I have a severe dislike of csh and its derivatives this may >not be 100% accurate, but: > >set == when you want it available in this shell and only in this shell > >setenv == when you want it available in this shell and any child >processes of this shell > >see here for reasons why csh is bad: http://frmb.org/csh_whynot.html > >tcsh is better then csh but that is just not saying much. > >If you want to learn a portable shell look at korn or posix sh. Well, before I share my opinion, I'm learning tcsh because that is the default shell on systems I may or may not have control of... That said, I'm pleasantly surprised at the tcsh options available even if they aren't enabled by default; compared to my bash experience. But things like directing stderr and stdout to separate places I guess will always be problematic, I guess sh will be easiest for me to use in scripts. In any event, figuring out how to use ~/.history is a RPITA, and why on earth would a ~/.history file ever be executed?!?! per man: A login shell begins by executing commands from the system files /etc/csh.cshrc and /etc/csh.login. It then executes commands from files in the user's home directory: first ~/.tcshrc (+) or, if ~/.tcshrc is not found, ~/.cshrc, then ~/.history (or the value of the histfile shell variable), then ~/.login, and finally ~/.cshdirs (or the value of the dirsfile shell variable) (+). Uuugh. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From mspitze1 Sat Aug 28 22:34:13 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:34:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] using tcsh In-Reply-To: <20040828233754.GA10555@trot.local> References: <20040828211321.GA9773@trot.local> <20040828190128.31df95e8@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040828233754.GA10555@trot.local> Message-ID: <20040828223413.15827363@bogomips.optonline.net> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:37:54 -0400 George Georgalis wrote: > Well, before I share my opinion, I'm learning tcsh because that is the > default shell on systems I may or may not have control of... > > That said, I'm pleasantly surprised at the tcsh options available even > if they aren't enabled by default; compared to my bash experience. But > things like directing stderr and stdout to separate places I guess > will always be problematic, I guess sh will be easiest for me to use > in scripts. > > In any event, figuring out how to use ~/.history is a RPITA, and why > on earth would a ~/.history file ever be executed?!?! per man: Its a *feature*. Flippen stupid one, but a feature none the less. marc From mspitze1 Sun Aug 29 11:20:33 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:20:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] for the consultants Message-ID: <20040829112033.1725693c@bogomips.optonline.net> I just noticed the gigs section on craigslist, computer stuff here: http://newyork.craigslist.org/cpg/ From george Tue Aug 31 00:31:31 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:31:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Re: Reverse SSH tunelling Message-ID: <20040831043131.GA22791@trot.local> Saw this on the focus linux list today.... http://chownat.lucidx.com/ chownat, pronounced "chone nat", allows two peers behind two separate NATs with NO port forwarding and NO DMZ setup on their routers to directly communicate with each other. comes with perl source and windows binaries.... haven't tried it but I'm guessing it works like it says it does... // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org