From george Sun Feb 1 11:01:15 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:01:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com trouble? In-Reply-To: <20040201045646.GA14385@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: ->I'm just wondering if anyone else is having this happen. -> ->It seems that since the snowstorm, or perhaps since mydoom, ->that my nyc.rr.com has been iffy, fading in and out, losing ->connectivity for 30-60 seconds, then going back to normal. -> ->I'm wondering any other rr.com users are having the same trouble. -> ->Thanks ->Scott Robbins i use verizon dsl, but i do notice that my digital cable gets quirkly when there's inclement weather. . .rain or snow. . .just like that time warner commercial, except i *don't* have satellite. g From scottro Sun Feb 1 11:12:31 2004 From: scottro ('Scott Robbins') Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:12:31 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com trouble? In-Reply-To: References: <20040201045646.GA14385@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20040201161231.GA17171@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 11:01:15AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > > ->I'm just wondering if anyone else is having this happen. > -> > ->It seems that since the snowstorm, or perhaps since mydoom, > ->that my nyc.rr.com has been iffy, fading in and out, losing > ->connectivity for 30-60 seconds, then going back to normal. > -> > ->I'm wondering any other rr.com users are having the same trouble. > -> > ->Thanks > ->Scott Robbins > > i use verizon dsl, but i do notice that my digital cable gets quirkly > when there's inclement weather. . .rain or snow. . .just like that time > warner commercial, except i *don't* have satellite. Heh. Someone else wrote me privately that he had similar issues, but in his case, it eventually turned out to be the splitter--it seems to have cleared up, however, so I'll see. Thanks to all who have replied. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: Since Angel lost his soul, he's regained his sense of whimsy. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040201/093f492b/attachment.bin From lists Sun Feb 1 07:17:51 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:17:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mail message headers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040201121332.K29217@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > did some googling. . . http://support.shaw.ca/networks/internetabuse.htm > check out section E. Good link. Thanks. > this virus has been spoofing addresses left and right. up to 85% of my > mail has been this virus. Lately it has been pretty bad. I am almost tempted on deleting all mails with 'hello' and 'test'. Lately the amount of those is just too much. I use mailfilter to delete certain emails even before downloading them. I am just afraid a family member or friend will send a generic email with the word 'hello' > it would be logical that if mail servers were performing dns lookups, > this whole mess would cease. I use popfilter and mailfilter to try and handle spam, but even then it's very annoying all the spam that still goes through. Then there is the need to double check your spam folder to make sure something valid did not go through. > my domain has been rbl'd a few times, but > frankly, it's completely idiotic if mail servers aren't authenticating > incoming mail in the most basic way. . . RBL by domain and not IP? So far I have only seen RBL by ip, which to me is what makes the most sense since it is so easy to forge the from field From lists Sun Feb 1 07:19:15 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:19:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com trouble? In-Reply-To: <20040201045646.GA14385@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <20040201045646.GA14385@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20040201121829.I29217@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Scott Robbins wrote: > I'm just wondering if anyone else is having this happen. > > It seems that since the snowstorm, or perhaps since mydoom, that > my nyc.rr.com has been iffy, fading in and out, losing connectivity for > 30-60 seconds, then going back to normal. Don't use nyc.rr.com, but just as a reference lately I have had slowdowns too. Seems to have started as of 2 to 4 days ago. From hans Sun Feb 1 16:45:15 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 13:45:15 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mail message headers Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8752B78F@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > Am I reading the email below correctly by saying it was sent from IP > 24.236.105.243? Basically, yeah. > MAILFROM: francisco at natserv.com > Received: from user-24-236-105-243.knology.net (HELO > natserv.com) (24.236.105.243) > by mx3.hrnoc.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2004 01:55:19 -0000 The key line is this one. It says: user-24-236-105-243.knology.net connected to mx3.hrnoc.net, trying to impersonate your domain (HELO natserv.com). > From: francisco at natserv.com > To: john at scalabium.com > Subject: hello > Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:55:33 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_F84A52BD.46D0F411" > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is all superfluous and can very easily be spoofed. H From theotherbush Sun Feb 1 17:57:12 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:57:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com Message-ID: Folks If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This site provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes they are having trouble in NYC. Harold _________________________________________________________________ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 From pete Sun Feb 1 18:20:26 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:20:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401D89BA.6010706@nomadlogic.org> Harold Bush wrote: > Folks > > If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This > site provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes > they are having trouble in NYC. > > Harold > > _________________________________________________________________ > There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn > more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk i think i missed the URL... pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From cistalk Sun Feb 1 20:32:27 2004 From: cistalk (Az) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:32:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] setting up snmp for mrtg on localhost Message-ID: <000f01c3e92c$6c3d85f0$6400a8c0@a0> hi all i installed the mrtg at localhost and it happens to be that i have to enable snmp. how do i install the right snmp from ports could you point me to the right direction please? localhost# make search name=snmp Port: gkrellm_snmp-0.14 Path: /usr/ports/net/gkrellm_snmp Info: A gkrellm SNMP Monitor Maint: eike.bernhardt at gmx.de Index: net Port: net-snmp-5.1 Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp Info: An extendable SNMP implementation Maint: kuriyama at FreeBSD.org Index: net ipv6 Port: ucd-snmp-tkmib-4.2.3 Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp-tkmib Info: An extendable SNMP implementation (tkmib part) Maint: kuriyama at FreeBSD.org Index: net Port: ucd-snmp-4.2.6_3 Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp4 Info: An extendable SNMP implementation Maint: marcus at FreeBSD.org Index: net ipv6 Port: p5-Net-SNMP-4.1.2 Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-Net-SNMP Info: A perl module for SNMP... Net::SNMP Maint: lars at thegler.dk Index: net perl5 Port: p5-SNMP-4.2.0 Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP Info: A perl5 module for interfacing with the CMU SNMP library Maint: ports at FreeBSD.org Index: net perl5 Port: p5-SNMP-MIB-Compiler-0.06 Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP-MIB-Compiler Info: A Perl MIB compiler supporting both SMIv1 and SMIv2 Maint: marcus at FreeBSD.org Index: net perl5 Port: p5-SNMP-Util-1.8 Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP-Util Info: Perl modules to perform SNMP set,get,walk,next,walk_hash etc Maint: fenner at FreeBSD.org Index: net perl5 Port: p5-SNMP_Session-0.98 Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP_Session Info: A perl5 module providing rudimentary access to SNMPv1 and v2 agents Maint: demon at FreeBSD.org Index: net perl5 Port: ruby-snmp-0.2.1_1 Path: /usr/ports/net/ruby-snmp Info: Ruby interface to UCD-SNMP library Maint: seanc at FreeBSD.org Index: net ruby currently i have p5-SNMP_Session installed running Freebsd 5.1 thanx From mspitze1 Sun Feb 1 20:41:14 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:41:14 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] setting up snmp for mrtg on localhost In-Reply-To: <000f01c3e92c$6c3d85f0$6400a8c0@a0> References: <000f01c3e92c$6c3d85f0$6400a8c0@a0> Message-ID: <20040201204114.2887df59.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:32:27 -0500 Az wrote: > hi all > i installed the mrtg at localhost and it happens to be that i have to enable > snmp. how do i install the right snmp from ports could you point me to the > right direction please? according to my /usr/ports/INDEX file it should already be installed, it uses a pure perl version to do its gets. Here is what you should have installed: $ grep -i ^mrtg INDEX mrtg-2.10.5_1,1|/usr/ports/net/mrtg|/usr/local|The multi-router traffic grapher|/usr/ports/net/mrtg/pkg-descr|demon at FreeBSD.org|net ipv6|freetype2-2.1.5_1 gd-2.0.15_1,1 jpeg-6b_1 png-1.2.5_3|freetype2-2.1.5_1 gd-2.0.15_1,1 jpeg-6b_1 p5-IO-INET6-1.28 p5-SNMP_Session-0.98 p5-Socket6-0.14 png-1.2.5_3|http://www.mrtg.org/ on a different topic take a look at portupgrade, it makes things easier marc > localhost# make search name=snmp > Port: gkrellm_snmp-0.14 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/gkrellm_snmp > > Info: A gkrellm SNMP Monitor > > Maint: eike.bernhardt at gmx.de > > Index: net > > > > Port: net-snmp-5.1 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp > > Info: An extendable SNMP implementation > > Maint: kuriyama at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net ipv6 > > > > Port: ucd-snmp-tkmib-4.2.3 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp-tkmib > > Info: An extendable SNMP implementation (tkmib part) > > Maint: kuriyama at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net > > > > Port: ucd-snmp-4.2.6_3 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/net-snmp4 > > Info: An extendable SNMP implementation > > Maint: marcus at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net ipv6 > > > > Port: p5-Net-SNMP-4.1.2 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-Net-SNMP > > Info: A perl module for SNMP... Net::SNMP > > Maint: lars at thegler.dk > > Index: net perl5 > > > > Port: p5-SNMP-4.2.0 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP > > Info: A perl5 module for interfacing with the CMU SNMP library > > Maint: ports at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net perl5 > > > > Port: p5-SNMP-MIB-Compiler-0.06 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP-MIB-Compiler > > Info: A Perl MIB compiler supporting both SMIv1 and SMIv2 > > Maint: marcus at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net perl5 > > > > Port: p5-SNMP-Util-1.8 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP-Util > > Info: Perl modules to perform SNMP set,get,walk,next,walk_hash etc > > Maint: fenner at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net perl5 > > > > Port: p5-SNMP_Session-0.98 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/p5-SNMP_Session > > Info: A perl5 module providing rudimentary access to SNMPv1 and v2 > agents > > Maint: demon at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net perl5 > > > > > > Port: ruby-snmp-0.2.1_1 > > Path: /usr/ports/net/ruby-snmp > > Info: Ruby interface to UCD-SNMP library > > Maint: seanc at FreeBSD.org > > Index: net ruby > > > > > currently i have p5-SNMP_Session installed > running Freebsd 5.1 > > thanx > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From george Mon Feb 2 00:54:24 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:54:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com In-Reply-To: <401D89BA.6010706@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: ->> If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This ->> site provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes ->> they are having trouble in NYC. ->> ->> Harold ->> ->> _________________________________________________________________ ->> There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn ->> more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 ->> ->> _______________________________________________ ->> talk mailing list ->> talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -> ->i think i missed the URL... -> ->pete ditto. . .it would be a good resource. . since so many providers are quiet about providing real details. . . anyone have an url for verison dsl. . .? g From scottro Mon Feb 2 04:56:11 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 04:56:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com In-Reply-To: References: <401D89BA.6010706@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040202095611.GA22193@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 12:54:24AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > > ->> If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This > ->> site provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes > ->> they are having trouble in NYC. This is probably the url and as was said, they are having trouble. :) http://help.rr.com/getpage.asp?/asp/networkstatus.asp?NCID=92 -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Principal Snyder: It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040202/57b2704d/attachment.bin From dan Mon Feb 2 09:30:39 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:30:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] setting up snmp for mrtg on localhost In-Reply-To: <000f01c3e92c$6c3d85f0$6400a8c0@a0> Message-ID: <401E18BF.21338.246BCD57@localhost> On 1 Feb 2004 at 20:32, Az wrote: > hi all > i installed the mrtg at localhost and it happens to be that i have to enable > snmp. how do i install the right snmp from ports could you point me to the > right direction please? I think it's a bad idea to cc this mailing list and another mailing list in the same message. We don't want their replies, and they don't want our replies. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From pete Mon Feb 2 09:44:53 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:44:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com In-Reply-To: <20040202095611.GA22193@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <401D89BA.6010706@nomadlogic.org> <20040202095611.GA22193@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <401E6265.6000805@nomadlogic.org> Scott Robbins wrote: >On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 12:54:24AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >>->> If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This >>->> site provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes >>->> they are having trouble in NYC. >> >> > >This is probably the url and as was said, they are having trouble. :) > > >http://help.rr.com/getpage.asp?/asp/networkstatus.asp?NCID=92 > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > thx! -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From dan Mon Feb 2 09:54:31 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:54:31 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted Message-ID: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> Hi folks, I've been looking around at the conference systesms which are now available. I have been offerred the use of existing systems, but I think we have a opportunity here to create something for our own use and mutual benefit. I want to create a conference registration system for BSDCan and for OSW (http://www.osw.ca/). It will be an open source project, free for anyone to use. I have already drawn up some preliminary specs, and tossed together a database diagram. My tools of choice: PHP and PostgreSQL. What I want to tackle first is: - user registration - talks - locations (where is the talk) - speakers (who is giving this talk) >From this information, a website can create a page with talks, a page with the speakers and their biographies, and a page with the location on it (complete with maps). Each page contains links to the others. This is my primary short term goal. Dynamic web page content. Anyone wishing to get involved, please speak up. If you want to learn PHP/PostgreSQL, this is an ideal opportunity. The project has very small distinct tasks which will take a few hours to complete (i.e. one evening). Thanks -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From pete Mon Feb 2 10:07:04 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:07:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> michael wrote: >ALL, > >O'Reilly would like to welcome NYCBUG to their User Group program and has released their first title for our review. While only one was directly BSD related, it was still a very generous gesture. > >All books in our 'Library', are available for any member to 'check-out'. In return, it would be nice to have a written review. > >The Complete FreeBSD, 4th Edition >Documentation from the Source >By Greg Lehey >April 2003 >ISBN: 0-596-00516-4 > >This new edition, covering version 5 of FreeBSD, is now available through O'Reilly Community Press. It is an eminently practical guidebook that explains not only how to get a computer up and running with the FreeBSD operating system, but also how to turn it into a highly functional and secure server that can host large numbers of users and disks, support remote access, and provide web service, mail service, and other key parts of the Internet infrastructure > > >Linux Security Cookbook >By Daniel J. Barrett, Richard Silverman, Robert G. Byrnes >June 2003 >ISBN: 0-596-00391-9 > >The Linux Security Cookbook includes real solutions to a wide range of targeted problems, such as sending encrypted email within Emacs, restricting access to network services at particular times of day, firewalling a webserver, preventing IP spoofing, setting up key-based SSH authentication, and much more. With over 150 ready-to-use scripts and configuration files, this unique book helps administrators secure their systems without having to look up specific syntax. > > >The NYCBUG Library messages will continue to be sent to the list until the Library web pages are finished. >Michael > > > > i actually pre-ordered "The Complete FreeBSD, 4th ed." and I've gotta say the book is great! Is that too short of a review ;) I will actaully try to make a more comprehensive review based on my experience integrating FreeBSD into our network, and how this volume has helped me in doing that. So, should these reviews be written in Abiword and sent as an attachment to the list, or would you all rather have them sent inline via email? cheers, -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Mon Feb 2 10:09:28 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:09:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: ->i actually pre-ordered "The Complete FreeBSD, 4th ed." and I've gotta ->say the book is great! Is that too short of a review ;) I will ->actaully try to make a more comprehensive review based on my ->experience ->integrating FreeBSD into our network, and how this volume has ->helped me ->in doing that. So, should these reviews be written in ->Abiword and sent ->as an attachment to the list, or would you all rather have them sent ->inline via email? -> ->cheers, -> -pete i think text (easily convertible to html) or pdf. . . we should get a committee together on the site at feb 4th meeting. g From jschauma Mon Feb 2 10:14:38 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:14:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040202151438.GA17449@netmeister.org> Pete Wright wrote: > So, should these reviews be written in Abiword Abiword? Why use that? Plain text is not good enough? ;-) > and sent > as an attachment to the list, or would you all rather have them sent > inline via email? How about you put it online onto a webserver somewhere and post the url instead? -Jan -- Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040202/a140f470/attachment.bin From pete Mon Feb 2 10:17:03 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:17:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202151438.GA17449@netmeister.org> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> <20040202151438.GA17449@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <401E69EF.8010303@nomadlogic.org> Jan Schaumann wrote: >Pete Wright wrote: > > >>So, should these reviews be written in Abiword >> >> > >Abiword? Why use that? Plain text is not good enough? ;-) > > > plain text is great..my spalling is not good enough tho ;) >>and sent >>as an attachment to the list, or would you all rather have them sent >>inline via email? >> >> > >How about you put it online onto a webserver somewhere and post the url >instead? > >-Jan > > > ahhh...execellent idea. i'll even make sure it's not a flash site so people can actually use it as a resource ;) -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From theotherbush Mon Feb 2 10:18:06 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:18:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com Message-ID: SAT http://help.rr.com/getpage.asp?/asp/networkstatus.asp,memserv Harold >From: Pete Wright >To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] nyc.rr.com >Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:20:26 -0500 > >Harold Bush wrote: > >>Folks >> >>If you're using road runner you need this url on your desktop. This site >>provides continuous updates on the state of their network. Yes they are >>having trouble in NYC. >> >>Harold >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. >>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>talk mailing list >>talk at lists.nycbug.org >>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >i think i missed the URL... > >pete > >-- >~~~oO00Oo~~~ >Pete Wright >pete at nomadlogic.org >www.nomadlogic.org/~pete > > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk _________________________________________________________________ Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 From lists Mon Feb 2 10:19:35 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:19:35 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: References: <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040202101935.2728a970.lists@genoverly.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:09:28 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > ->i actually pre-ordered "The Complete FreeBSD, 4th ed." > and I've gotta say the book is great! > ->cheers, > -> -pete > This book is desribed as a classic. I'm reading it now and I'll agree with you pete, it is great. > i think text (easily convertible to html) or pdf. . . > Plain text for sure. > we should get a committee together on the site at feb 4th > meeting. > > g > I'll bring a conceptual design for the web Michael -- --- From lists Mon Feb 2 06:36:54 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:36:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> References: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> Message-ID: <20040202113523.E37554@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > I have already drawn up some preliminary specs, and tossed together a > database diagram. Not sure how much time I can dedicate with coding, but for sure I can help/revise the database part. > very small distinct tasks which will take a few hours to complete You have a list of tasks? From dan Mon Feb 2 13:38:36 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:38:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <20040202113523.E37554@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> Message-ID: <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> On 2 Feb 2004 at 11:36, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > > > I have already drawn up some preliminary specs, and tossed together a > > database diagram. > > Not sure how much time I can dedicate with coding, but for sure I can > help/revise the database part. Is this the email address I other and team members should us for you? > > very small distinct tasks which will take a few hours to complete > > You have a list of tasks? I will have by this 3pm this afternoon. I'm drawing up the database diagram now. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mspitze1 Mon Feb 2 13:44:13 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:44:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> References: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> Message-ID: <20040202134413.46a9d0bb.mspitze1@optonline.net> I know this is a bit late but have you looked at http://openacs.org, its not php and its not apache but it does almost everything you want. marc From dan Mon Feb 2 13:49:04 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:49:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <20040202134413.46a9d0bb.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> Message-ID: <401E5550.3272.25586916@localhost> On 2 Feb 2004 at 13:44, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I know this is a bit late but have you looked at http://openacs.org, > its not php and its not apache but it does almost everything you want. > Given the timeframe, I don't want to learn another tool at the same time. But if someone else wants to take my requirements and run with them... ;) -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From lists Mon Feb 2 08:57:57 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:57:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> References: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> Message-ID: <20040202135508.A38037@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > Is this the email address I other and team members should us for you? If you are making a mailing list, then yes. For direct mail you can use francisco at natserv.com. I get them both in the same account anyway (pull 3 accounts with fetchmail and separate by folders) > I will have by this 3pm this afternoon. I'm drawing up the database > diagram now. You using a program for this? If not I could type them in a program I have, which besides giving a nice representation it can also generate the SQL. From dan Mon Feb 2 14:09:57 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:09:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <20040202135508.A38037@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <401E52DC.8101.254ED168@localhost> Message-ID: <401E5A35.20809.256B85AB@localhost> On 2 Feb 2004 at 13:57, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > I will have by this 3pm this afternoon. I'm drawing up the database > > diagram now. > > You using a program for this? > If not I could type them in a program I have, which besides giving a nice > representation it can also generate the SQL. Yes, I use Sybase's DataArchitect. Thanks though. Make that 4pm now, something else just came up. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From pete Mon Feb 2 15:08:22 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:08:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD Message-ID: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> Hey all, OK, so i'm not on the FreeBSD mailing list, so i'm probably horribly out of the loop. I just checked out /. and noticed this little blurb: / "FreeBSD Release Engineering Team's Scott Long has posted the 2003 FreeBSD year-end edition status report . He says many new projects are starting up and gaining momentum, including SGI XFS port..."/ this is the first time i've heard of a port of SGI's XFS to FreeBSD. does anyone know of the status of this. Because I work with SGI's all day, and use GNU/Linux because of it's XFS support, this is of huge interest to me. Should I hold my breath? According to the post, development seems to be moving very slowly. Am I the only one interested in this, or to put it another way, is there even a need for such a port? -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ray Mon Feb 2 16:05:06 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:05:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <401E69EF.8010303@nomadlogic.org> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <401E6798.8020303@nomadlogic.org> <20040202151438.GA17449@netmeister.org> <401E69EF.8010303@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040202210506.GH21783@cybertron.cyth.net> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 10:17:03AM -0500, Pete Wright wrote: > plain text is great..my spalling is not good enough tho ;) `man 1 spell' From ray Mon Feb 2 16:17:17 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:17:17 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] conference registration project : helpers wanted In-Reply-To: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> References: <401E1E57.14582.2481A7C1@localhost> Message-ID: <20040202211717.GI21783@cybertron.cyth.net> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 09:54:31AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > Anyone wishing to get involved, please speak up. If you want to > learn PHP/PostgreSQL, this is an ideal opportunity. The project has > very small distinct tasks which will take a few hours to complete > (i.e. one evening). I know PHP and I know PostgreSQL, though I have less experience in it than MySQL. (SQL is SQL, though.) I can lend a helping hand, if time permits. -Ray- From ray Mon Feb 2 16:19:54 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:19:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 12:08:20PM -0500, michael wrote: > All books in our 'Library', are available for any member to > 'check-out'. In return, it would be nice to have a written review. How does one `check-out' a book? -Ray- From wes Mon Feb 2 16:24:49 2004 From: wes (Wes Sonnenreich) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:24:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] business development networks for NYC comp. consultants Message-ID: <56780.38.233.93.150.1075757089.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> general fyi: I know that many of the members of this list are involved in computer consulting, either independently or as part of larger firms. A recent post was from someone going solo and looking for advice on getting business. Developing leads can be a real pain, especially when you're spending most of your time servicing your existing clients. As a source of leads, I belong to several business networking groups in the city. One of my groups, the High Noon network, is expanding and is looking for new members. The group is pretty diverse, members are from industries such as insurance, banking, design, accounting, sales, HR, mortgage, etc. If anyone is interested in joining the group or learning more about business networking groups, feel free to email me or talk with me at the Feb. 4th meeting. Hope this info is of value, Wes From George Mon Feb 2 16:26:12 2004 From: George (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:26:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] library issue. . . Message-ID: <15534.68.167.77.98.1075757172.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> what michael is talking about is pretty straight-forward, although we do not have the "infrastructure" yet. . .1. we get review copy of book from vendor. 2. book goes to volunteer in nycbug, who agrees to read and provide a review online. 3. nycbug members reviews and posts review on nycbug site. 4. reviewer keeps book, or puts back in the pool. i don't see reviews competing with the new york times book review section, but more on the slashdot.org level. what's useful. what's not. under 500 words, i'd guess. how does everyone feel about that process. at the feb 4th meeting, we'll put together a committee to redo site, with software and book review sections. . . btw, i'll get a proposed agenda out to all tonight for feb 4th meeting. g * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * G. Rosamond Secure Design & Development, Inc. 917-968-1900 www.sddi.net George at sddi.net From lists Mon Feb 2 18:39:36 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:39:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040202183936.424ae113.lists@genoverly.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:19:54 -0500 Ray wrote: > How does one `check-out' a book? > > -Ray- You mean you haven't visited our library? You can check out books by swiping your NYCBUG membership card ! Just kidding... For now, just drop me an email and we'll arrange something. Ideally, they would be left in a neutral place under the honor system. I don't want to be the keeper-of-the-books. Until we get a more permanent home I guess we can schlep them to meetings. It is not that many books... yet. Note, I've already `checked-out` the new copy of "Complete" that just got mailed to us... . I'm not sure I'll have if finished by the meeting on the 4th. Michael -- --- From scottro Mon Feb 2 18:50:50 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:50:50 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202183936.424ae113.lists@genoverly.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040202183936.424ae113.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040202235050.GB1170@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 06:39:36PM -0500, michael wrote: > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:19:54 -0500 > Ray wrote: > > > How does one `check-out' a book? > > > > -Ray- > > You mean you haven't visited our library? You can check out > books by swiping your NYCBUG membership card ! I had thought, when I first saw the announcement, that they would be available online, something like that electric library one can join from nypl.org's page. (drawing a blank on the name). (I had figured O'Reilly had given electronic copies). I wonder if that would be feasible? -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: Generally speaking, when scary things get scared, not good. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040202/0a26ab4c/attachment.bin From mspitze1 Mon Feb 2 18:58:04 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:58:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202235050.GB1170@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040202183936.424ae113.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202235050.GB1170@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20040202185804.034ec9b2.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:50:50 -0500 Scott Robbins wrote: > On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 06:39:36PM -0500, michael wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:19:54 -0500 > > Ray wrote: > > > > > How does one `check-out' a book? > > > > > > -Ray- > > > > You mean you haven't visited our library? You can check out > > books by swiping your NYCBUG membership card ! > > I had thought, when I first saw the announcement, that they would be > available online, something like that electric library one can join > from nypl.org's page. (drawing a blank on the name). (I had figured > O'Reilly had given electronic copies). > > I wonder if that would be feasible? If we could talk oreilly into it I could use that. marc > > > -- > > Scott Robbins > > PGP keyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Xander: Generally speaking, when scary things get scared, not > good. > > From lists Mon Feb 2 15:23:44 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> References: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040202202130.V39638@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pete Wright wrote: > this is the first time i've heard of a port of SGI's XFS to FreeBSD. > does anyone know of the status of this. My recollection is that between background fsck and softupdates many thought there wasn't all that much advantrage in XFS over those two which are been worked on the 5.X branch. Even if you are not in the lists, you could always send an email to the freebsd filesystems list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs From paul Mon Feb 2 20:59:42 2004 From: paul (Paul Dlug) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:59:42 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> References: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: There's JFS for FreeBSD, the development site was at: http://jfs4bsd.sourceforge.net/ But according to the page it's been moved into the FreeBSD project itself, though I can't find a reference to that. It's somewhat similar to XFS. I'm not sure what benefits XFS/JFS would have to UFS2+softupdates other than providing another choice. I'm sure softupdates aren't ideal in all cases so XFS may fill some niche areas or at least pacify the linux advocates who state "but *BSD doesn't even have a journalling filesystem." The journaled filesystem vs. softupdates debate is taking place at the DragonFly BSD project right now, though it looks like they're leaning toward journalling for simplified development and debugging. --Paul On Feb 2, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > Hey all, > OK, so i'm not on the FreeBSD mailing list, so i'm probably > horribly out of the loop. I just checked out /. and noticed this > little blurb: > / > "FreeBSD Release Engineering Team's > Scott Long has posted > the 2003 FreeBSD year-end edition status report > . He > says many new projects are starting up and gaining momentum, including > SGI XFS port..."/ > > this is the first time i've heard of a port of SGI's XFS to FreeBSD. > does anyone know of the status of this. Because I work with SGI's all > day, and use GNU/Linux because of it's XFS support, this is of huge > interest to me. Should I hold my breath? According to the post, > development seems to be moving very slowly. Am I the only one > interested in this, or to put it another way, is there even a need for > such a port? > > -pete > > > > -- > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ > Pete Wright > email: pete at nomadlogic.org > mobile: 917.415.9866 > web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From john Mon Feb 2 22:55:01 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 22:55:01 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040203035501.GB757@dancer> * Ray [20040202 16:19]: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 12:08:20PM -0500, michael wrote: > > All books in our 'Library', are available for any member to > > 'check-out'. In return, it would be nice to have a written review. > > How does one `check-out' a book? I always use a come-hither look. John From lists Tue Feb 3 08:30:45 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:30:45 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG LIbrary In-Reply-To: <20040202185804.034ec9b2.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040131120820.02d22187.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202211954.GJ21783@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040202183936.424ae113.lists@genoverly.net> <20040202235050.GB1170@scottro11.homeunix.net> <20040202185804.034ec9b2.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040203083045.25b85473.lists@genoverly.net> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:58:04 -0500 Marc Spitzer wrote: > > If we could talk oreilly into it I could use that. > > marc > > I'll contact our sponsering publishers and get back to the list. In the meantime... here's some tips and suggestions on writing book reviews: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Something else, if you are like me, when I read a good technical book I may want to keep it in my own library for reference. So, besides single-copy-for-review books. O'Reilly has offered group purchase discounts. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ From lists Tue Feb 3 08:36:32 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:36:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention Planning Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040203083632.6d04ca49.lists@genoverly.net> FYI > Hello Open Source Enthusiast-- > > The O'Reilly Open Source Convention (OSCON) will be held > July 26-30, 2004 at the Portland Marriott Downtown in > Portland, OR. But in the meantime, we need your help in > refining our program. We have a special survey we are > passing around and if you include your email address you > will be entered to win one of two free passes to OSCON. > All entries must be submitted by Monday, February 9th. > > To fill out the survey, go to: > http://conferences.oreillynet.com/survey/oscon04_planning/oscon04_planning_1.htm > > For more information on the O'Reilly Open Source > Convention, go to: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/ > > > We are still accepting proposals for OSCON 2004 until > February 9th: > http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/create/e_sess > > > Please feel free to pass this email along to anyone who is > interested! -- --- From pete Tue Feb 3 09:19:35 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:19:35 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20040202202130.V39638@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> <20040202202130.V39638@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <401FADF7.7020003@nomadlogic.org> great thanks for the link, i'll look into it. -pete Francisco Reyes wrote: >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pete Wright wrote: > > > >>this is the first time i've heard of a port of SGI's XFS to FreeBSD. >>does anyone know of the status of this. >> >> > > >My recollection is that between background fsck and softupdates many >thought there wasn't all that much advantrage in XFS over those two which >are been worked on the 5.X branch. > >Even if you are not in the lists, you could always send an email to the >freebsd filesystems list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From pete Tue Feb 3 09:27:04 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:27:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <401FAFB8.9070306@nomadlogic.org> yea, there are two main reasons why we implemented XFS at our shop. First is due to performance on large files (it is not uncommon to have individual files grow up to 150 gigs) as well as performance on smaller files (for example a rendered scene with 1500 11 meg .tiff files). Secondly, I like the idea of being able to use the same file system across two platforms (IRIX, GNU/Linux) and having the same utilities avail for both of those file systems (xfs_dump for example). This leads to all sorts of time savers for administrative tasks. So for my purposes, it's not even the journaled v. softupdates issue, it's mostly for the reasons outlined above. I suppose I should be happy that I have the freedom to implement two world class O.S.'s that play nicely with IRIX... thx -pete Paul Dlug wrote: > There's JFS for FreeBSD, the development site was at: > > http://jfs4bsd.sourceforge.net/ > > But according to the page it's been moved into the FreeBSD project > itself, though I can't find a reference to that. It's somewhat similar > to XFS. I'm not sure what benefits XFS/JFS would have to > UFS2+softupdates other than providing another choice. I'm sure > softupdates aren't ideal in all cases so XFS may fill some niche areas > or at least pacify the linux advocates who state "but *BSD doesn't > even have a journalling filesystem." The journaled filesystem vs. > softupdates debate is taking place at the DragonFly BSD project right > now, though it looks like they're leaning toward journalling for > simplified development and debugging. > > --Paul > > > On Feb 2, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > >> Hey all, >> OK, so i'm not on the FreeBSD mailing list, so i'm probably >> horribly out of the loop. I just checked out /. and noticed this >> little blurb: >> / >> "FreeBSD Release Engineering Team's >> Scott Long has posted >> the 2003 FreeBSD year-end edition status report >> . He >> says many new projects are starting up and gaining momentum, >> including SGI XFS port..."/ >> >> this is the first time i've heard of a port of SGI's XFS to FreeBSD. >> does anyone know of the status of this. Because I work with SGI's >> all day, and use GNU/Linux because of it's XFS support, this is of >> huge interest to me. Should I hold my breath? According to the >> post, development seems to be moving very slowly. Am I the only one >> interested in this, or to put it another way, is there even a need >> for such a port? >> >> -pete >> >> >> >> -- >> ~~~oO00Oo~~~ >> Pete Wright >> email: pete at nomadlogic.org >> mobile: 917.415.9866 >> web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Tue Feb 3 12:10:39 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:10:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] feb 4th agenda Message-ID: obviously, the main point of the meeting is wes' talk, but there's a few other things to take care of. proposed agenda: 1. welcome 2. www site committee, amp and design 3. michael on book reviews 4. wes' talk anything else to cover? g From george Tue Feb 3 12:50:36 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:50:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting announcement. . . Message-ID: forward this around. . ..lists, etc. . . NYCBUG.org (pronounced nice-bug) New York City *BSD Users Group OpenBSD Security, Wes Sonnenreich on Wednesday, February 4th at 7 pm. While operating system security is a hot topic in the news today, only one operating system can say that it's only had one remote vulnerability since its inception in 1996: OpenBSD. With a stringent auditing process and the committment of developers around the world, the OpenBSD example has transformed the way in which operating system security is viewed. Wes Sonnenreich is the author of "Building Linux and OpenBSD Firewalls" and "Network Security Illustrated." His presentation will look at the OpenBSD operating system, and the the clear lessons it teaches about building secure systems. The meeting will be held at the offices of SageSecure, LLC at 116 W. 23rd Street at 6th Avenue on the fifth floor. This meeting is free and open to the public. We kindly endorse the distribution of this announcement among your colleagues, and potential *BSD users. Thank you. From george Tue Feb 3 14:33:56 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:33:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some nycbug issues Message-ID: 1. posted meeting announcement to daemon news and fbsd advocacy. 2. next meeting topic needs to be discussed. i think that a netbsd meeting by wasabi on embedded systems would be ideal. jan, other recommendations on this? g From hans Tue Feb 3 14:46:33 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:46:33 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some nycbug issues Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87771D99@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > 1. posted meeting announcement to daemon news and fbsd advocacy. An announcement went out this morning on NYPHP-Announce. Has anything been posted to NYCBUG-Announce yet? H From george Tue Feb 3 14:46:41 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:46:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some nycbug issues In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87771D99@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: ->> 1. posted meeting announcement to daemon news and fbsd advocacy. -> ->An announcement went out this morning on NYPHP-Announce. Has very nice. saw that. ->anything been posted to NYCBUG-Announce yet? i set it up halfway, now i'm finishing. should be up in a few. g From george Tue Feb 3 14:57:32 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:57:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG Announce list Message-ID: for the announce list, please subscribe at lists.nycbug.org. only the list admins (george & hans) can post to this list. please submit to either one of them first to get the announcement onto announce-nycbug. thanks g From marco Tue Feb 3 15:47:51 2004 From: marco (Marco Scoffier) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 15:47:51 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] CFSG: The Community Free Software Group Message-ID: <20040203204751.GC11611@metm.org> Hello and greetings to the New York City Free and Open Source Software communities, technology special interest groups, and friends. We are pleased to announce the formation of the Community Free Software Group, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to serving individuals, groups and communities through Free Software education and implementation. CFSG was created to address the lack of Free Software-based education programs available to community technology centers and non-profit organizations. Existing programs are almost exclusively offered by proprietary, non-free software companies in exchange for tax credits, publicity, and gaining mind-share. By creating programs based on Free Software tools and technologies CFSG will advocate by example, increasing awareness and empowering people. CFSG brings Free Software to people and the organizations that serve them. Free Software is the tool of choice for serving those who want to learn, providing real technology education, ownership and freedom. We create programs that illustrate these benefits. As an example of our mission, CFSG is pleased to announce our new project: "The PC Garage -- restoring, customizing and tuning your PC with Free Software." http://cfsg.org/programs/aafe.html A collaboration with Asian Americans for Equality http://aafe.org/ and the Three Jewels Outreach Center http://www.threejewels.org/ , "The PC Garage" is a twelve-week workshop designed to teach kids (ages 13-18) about computer hardware and Free Software by rebuilding donated machines and installing the GNU/Linux operating system. The course will be hosted by Asian Americans for Equality in their new community technology center at 111 Norfolk Street, New York. CFSG is looking for people interested in bringing Free Software to communities. For more information about CFSG and to find out how to participate, visit the Community Free Software Group at http://cfsg.org/ or contact us at info-AT-cfsg.org. Thank you for your time and attention. -- Marco From trish Tue Feb 3 17:36:12 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:36:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] XFS support in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: <401EAE36.4040903@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040203173320.U1226@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Paul Dlug wrote: > There's JFS for FreeBSD, the development site was at: > > http://jfs4bsd.sourceforge.net/ > > But according to the page it's been moved into the FreeBSD project > itself, though I can't find a reference to that. It's somewhat similar > to XFS. I'm not sure what benefits XFS/JFS would have to > UFS2+softupdates other than providing another choice. I'm sure > softupdates aren't ideal in all cases so XFS may fill some niche areas > or at least pacify the linux advocates who state "but *BSD doesn't even > have a journalling filesystem." The journaled filesystem vs. > softupdates debate is taking place at the DragonFly BSD project right > now, though it looks like they're leaning toward journalling for > simplified development and debugging. > > --Paul > > in 1998 (or was it 1999) at USENIX there was a paper where Margo Seltzer and Kirk McKusick took a look at softupdates and logging/journalling filesystems and performance for certain types of operations. There are clear reasons why one would want to use one over the other. Journalling and "Soft" metadata dependencies are not there just because someone wanted to save time at boot ;) -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From george Thu Feb 5 20:12:16 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:12:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Last Night's Meeting Message-ID: Curious to hear comments about last night's meeting. Please submit to the list. I think it was a huge success. the presentations were excellent, the discussion was good, and that carried over to the bar later on. i happened to be among the few, the proud, who got home at 4 am. . . g From felix Thu Feb 5 15:59:59 2004 From: felix (felix zaslavskiy) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:59:59 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] last night meeting pictures Message-ID: <20040205155959.5cd28f86.felix@students.poly.edu> I posted on my blog http://www.zaslavskiy.net/blog -- felix[at]bebinary.com http://www.zaslavskiy.net/ From george Thu Feb 5 21:05:47 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 21:05:47 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some pictures. . . Message-ID: felix took three pictures and put them up on the site. . . http://www.zaslavskiy.net/blog not bad. . .at least we now have evidence, and not just testimonies, that it happened. g From mspitze1 Thu Feb 5 21:21:28 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:21:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some pictures. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040205212128.0714b591.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:05:47 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > felix took three pictures and put them up on the site. . . > > http://www.zaslavskiy.net/blog > > not bad. . .at least we now have evidence, and not just testimonies, > that it happened. We want pictures of the after party. marc From felix Thu Feb 5 16:55:07 2004 From: felix (felix zaslavskiy) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:55:07 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] some pictures. . . In-Reply-To: <20040205212128.0714b591.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040205212128.0714b591.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040205165507.6bb4a153.felix@students.poly.edu> > We want pictures of the after party. I didn't take any cause I thought lighting was bad but thats not much of an excuse. Next time i will more pictures. -- felix[at]bebinary.com http://www.zaslavskiy.net/ From wes Fri Feb 6 17:11:19 2004 From: wes (Wes Sonnenreich) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:11:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Lecture Notes from Wed. night Message-ID: <65000.38.233.93.150.1076105479.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> For those who are interested, these were our internal notes for our talk on Wednesday. They're attached as html, also, you can find them here: http://www.openlysecure.org/openbsd/security/sec_lessons.admin Wes Sonnenreich tel://+1.212.386.7621 SageSecure, LLC. http://www.sagesecure.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PGP: 1024D/4457C4D6 979E 9848 950A 760B 01B4 DBDB 3A06 B8F0 4457 C4D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040206/bb75a245/attachment.html From george Fri Feb 6 20:36:09 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:36:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Lecture Notes from Wed. night In-Reply-To: <65000.38.233.93.150.1076105479.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> Message-ID: -> ->For those who are interested, these were our internal notes ->for our talk on Wednesday. They're attached as html, also, ->you can find them here: -> ->http://www.openlysecure.org/openbsd/security/sec_lessons.admin -> -> ->Wes Sonnenreich ->tel://+1.212.386.7621 ->SageSecure, LLC. ->http://www.sagesecure.com thanks wes. we'll be sure to put a link on the new wwww site. . . g From Mikel.King Fri Feb 6 23:24:47 2004 From: Mikel.King (Mike King) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:24:47 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] requests for tools and utilities... thoughts Message-ID: <0F3177E4824EC94698BAA43AF73D1BC7C7E1@hercules.ocsny.com> George and I have been talking, and one of the many ideas I've thrown out at him is to create a set of utilities bundled together called NYCTools (yes it's a lame atempt at word play on our 'nice' theme). I am absolutely certain that many of you have utilities and little scripts that you've written that would be handy to share providing that you're employerer hasn't imposed any restrictions on your ideas and personally developed code. So that being said I am thinking that since one of my buds; a former coworker of mine is mozdev.org and he recently port that site to FreeBSD 5.2, I might beable to launch an entire NYCProjects tangent site so that we can manage our local projects and build this tree. Ok so how does this sound to every one else? I'd like to get some dialog going and in short order make these things happen. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org http://www.MySql.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. +------------------------------------------+ From mikel.king Sat Feb 7 14:41:26 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:41:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting for Wednesday March 3rd Message-ID: <40253F66.3010806@ocsny.com> Before this hit's the announce list George and I would like to finalize some details. We have quite alot of irons in the fire right now and momentum is really good. Thoughts regarding the next meeing are as follows; 1. To host and activity planning session immediately prior to the standard NYCBug users group meeting. We have tentatively set this for 6pm at the designated location. This meeting would be to openly discuss projects, ideas, relay news and events from the other lists, the general direction of things to come, and to consume copias amounts of coffee, et cettera... the focus it NYCBug planning, mobilization, public relations and the like. This would be open to all but only project planners would be required to attend. 2. Begin the Seminar portion of the meeting at 6:30. Ok now that that's out of the way, here' what we have thus far for the Activities planning meeting... 1. Website developement 2. NFP status 3. Openlysecure.org 4. Build fest Does anyone have any other ideas? keep in mind that we have approximately 30min planned for this segment, We could probably add another 15 minutes on the the begining, but ideally we'd like to ensure that every one has enough time to get in and situated. Additionally we don't want to push the regular meeting back too far if it can be avoided. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org http://www.MySql.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. +------------------------------------------+ From mikel.king Sat Feb 7 14:44:00 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:44:00 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server Message-ID: <40254000.4020204@ocsny.com> I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this thing up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ irc.upan.org once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed server and we can CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... -- Cheers, Mikel King From george Sat Feb 7 15:23:57 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:23:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting for Wednesday March 3rd In-Reply-To: <40253F66.3010806@ocsny.com> Message-ID: ->1. To host and activity planning session immediately prior to the ->standard NYCBug users group meeting. We have tentatively set this for ->6pm at the designated location. This meeting would be to ->openly discuss ->projects, ideas, relay news and events from the other lists, ->the general ->direction of things to come, and to consume copias amounts of ->coffee, et ->cettera... the focus it NYCBug planning, mobilization, public ->relations ->and the like. This would be open to all but only project ->planners would ->be required to attend. no one is *required* to attend. . .it would just be for those who are interested in actually planning activities. . .we can assume this is a smaller group than is present at the general meetings. . .the point is not to infect the main monthly meeting with the minutia of details. ->2. Begin the Seminar portion of the meeting at 6:30. -> ->Ok now that that's out of the way, here' what we have thus ->far for the ->Activities planning meeting... -> -> 1. Website developement -> 2. NFP status -> 3. Openlysecure.org -> 4. Build fest -> ->Does anyone have any other ideas? keep in mind that we have ->approximately 30min planned for this segment, We could probably add ->another 15 minutes on the the begining, but ideally we'd like ->to ensure ->that every one has enough time to get in and situated. ->Additionally we ->don't want to push the regular meeting back too far if it can ->be avoided. under no circumstances should this meeting go past 6:45 pm. short, sweet, and to the point. g From dan Sat Feb 7 15:26:28 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:26:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <40254000.4020204@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> On 7 Feb 2004 at 14:44, Mikel King wrote: > I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's > familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this thing > up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ irc.upan.org > once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed server and we can > CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... Why not just use an existing public server? -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mspitze1 Sat Feb 7 16:00:57 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:00:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> References: <40254000.4020204@ocsny.com> <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> Message-ID: <20040207160057.7d10214d.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:26:28 -0500 Dan Langille wrote: > On 7 Feb 2004 at 14:44, Mikel King wrote: > > > I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's > > > > familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this > > thing up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ > > irc.upan.org once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed > > server and we can CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... > > Why not just use an existing public server? Seconded, #nycbug on irc.freenet.org sounds cool. marc From ray Sat Feb 7 16:38:12 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:38:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting for Wednesday March 3rd In-Reply-To: <40253F66.3010806@ocsny.com> References: <40253F66.3010806@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040207213812.GA8830@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 02:41:26PM -0500, Mikel King wrote: > 2. NFP status What's NFP? -Ray- From dan Sat Feb 7 16:11:04 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:11:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040207160057.7d10214d.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> Message-ID: <40250E18.4106.BB6FD7E@localhost> On 7 Feb 2004 at 16:00, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:26:28 -0500 > Dan Langille wrote: > > > On 7 Feb 2004 at 14:44, Mikel King wrote: > > > > > I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's > > > > > > familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this > > > thing up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ > > > irc.upan.org once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed > > > server and we can CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... > > > > Why not just use an existing public server? > > Seconded, #nycbug on irc.freenet.org sounds cool. I'd prefer one of the networks I'm already one: undernet, efnet, oftc, freenode. But I'm just one person... -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Sat Feb 7 16:38:34 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:38:34 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting for Wednesday March 3rd In-Reply-To: <20040207213812.GA8830@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: ->On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 02:41:26PM -0500, Mikel King wrote: ->> 2. NFP status -> ->What's NFP? not for profit status. . . g From mikel.king Sat Feb 7 20:29:54 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:29:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <40250E18.4106.BB6FD7E@localhost> References: <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> <40250E18.4106.BB6FD7E@localhost> Message-ID: <40259112.4020302@ocsny.com> Dan Langille wrote: >On 7 Feb 2004 at 16:00, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > >>On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:26:28 -0500 >>Dan Langille wrote: >> >> >> >>>On 7 Feb 2004 at 14:44, Mikel King wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's >>>> >>>>familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this >>>>thing up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ >>>>irc.upan.org once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed >>>>server and we can CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... >>>> >>>> >>>Why not just use an existing public server? >>> >>> >>Seconded, #nycbug on irc.freenet.org sounds cool. >> >> > >I'd prefer one of the networks I'm already one: undernet, efnet, >oftc, freenode. > >But I'm just one person... > > Well my thought process for having our own 'private' server, is that it would most likely be used for it's intended pupose, and not to discuss the latest Stargate episode or some other such thing. The only other reason is; that it's being provided freely for us to use. Besides what's the fun in just using some one else's box...;-) -- Cheers, Mikel King From ray Sun Feb 8 03:55:22 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 03:55:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <40259112.4020302@ocsny.com> References: <402503A4.11040.B8E28EC@localhost> <40250E18.4106.BB6FD7E@localhost> <40259112.4020302@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 08:29:54PM -0500, Mikel King wrote: > Well my thought process for having our own 'private' server, is that it > would most likely be used for it's intended pupose, and not to discuss > the latest Stargate episode or some other such thing. That's what ops are for. > The only other reason is; that it's being provided freely for > us to use. So are just about all IRC networks. > Besides what's the fun in just using some one else's box...;-) 1. Free bandwidth. 2. No administration worries (DDOSes, crackers, etc.) 3. No need to get on yet another IRC network if we are already on one (some are regularly on efnet, undernet, etc.) 4. More servers on existing networks. 5. No need to add our IRC network to IRC clients. -Ray- From george Sun Feb 8 09:39:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:39:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site. . . Message-ID: the site has been updated to include a few things. the past events section now includes last wednesday's meeting, with wes and jason's notes, pictures from felix and michael's mp3 files. . .(streaming works but the d/l doesn't yet). the other michael is moving forward with the new site, so we can look forward to that in the next few weeks. michael, you may want to post status on this list. and put out another call for volunteers. additionally, michael and i are attending the "orgcom" this afternoon, the attempt to organize a technical conference. again, it is composed of two delegates from each user group, tech assoc, etc in the nyc metro area. the beginnings were pretty sloppy, but it seems like more sober heads are setting the tone now. we will update all after the meeting with the status on this project. jeremy sohn from wasabi has promised me a netbsd/embedded system engineer for the march meeting. however, we need to have a backup and additional speakers for future meetings. please email me on or offlist with not just topics, but speakers. we will make adjustments for a larger facility for the next meeting also, whether at sagesecure again or elsewhere. this will be dealt with sooner than later. g From theotherbush Sun Feb 8 10:07:10 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:07:10 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location Message-ID: Folks Is it possible to find meeting space closer to out-of-town transportation. I have to come down from Woodstock NY and being near GC or PA would make the trip more doable. This may encourage others from the Hudson Valley also. BTW I am reading Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD". I'm about ?? way through it. For someone like me who has been out of the Unix world for 8 years the book is very useful. It would work for a newbie also. One should be aware that the book promotes his point of view on topics such as file systems etc. However, it seems to be complete in scope. Also, I'm looking for assistance in setting up a web server/mail server using FreeBSD in early March. If anyone is interested please e-mail me off list to discuss the specifics including compensation. We are in the process of designing a "Green PC" (lower power consumption, environmentally friendly manufacturing processes/end product, and living wage support). If anyone is interested in this project e-mail me off list. Thanks!! Harold private e-mail address (no cc bcc list etc.) harold at digitalbrands.com _________________________________________________________________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From rbrown Sun Feb 8 11:40:17 2004 From: rbrown (Rodrick R. Brown) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:40:17 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200402081634.i18GYrjO075463@kremlin.stereodreams.org> I like most New Yorker's use public transportation :) Being able to get to almost any location in NYC via subway system is one of the perks of being a resident New Yorker. This is NYCBUG :) By making it more convenient to you will be inconvenient I think 75% of the members who are also resident New Yorkers and use public transportation. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Harold Bush Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 10:07 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location Folks Is it possible to find meeting space closer to out-of-town transportation. I have to come down from Woodstock NY and being near GC or PA would make the trip more doable. This may encourage others from the Hudson Valley also. BTW I am reading Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD". I'm about ?? way through it. For someone like me who has been out of the Unix world for 8 years the book is very useful. It would work for a newbie also. One should be aware that the book promotes his point of view on topics such as file systems etc. However, it seems to be complete in scope. Also, I'm looking for assistance in setting up a web server/mail server using FreeBSD in early March. If anyone is interested please e-mail me off list to discuss the specifics including compensation. We are in the process of designing a "Green PC" (lower power consumption, environmentally friendly manufacturing processes/end product, and living wage support). If anyone is interested in this project e-mail me off list. Thanks!! Harold private e-mail address (no cc bcc list etc.) harold at digitalbrands.com _________________________________________________________________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From joshmccormack Sun Feb 8 11:42:24 2004 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:42:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <200402081634.i18GYrjO075463@kremlin.stereodreams.org> References: <200402081634.i18GYrjO075463@kremlin.stereodreams.org> Message-ID: <402666F0.5050404@travelersdiary.com> He's talking about Grand Central or Port Authority - both major hubs on the subway. Josh Rodrick R. Brown wrote: > I like most New Yorker's use public transportation :) > > Being able to get to almost any location in NYC via subway system is one of > the perks of being a resident New Yorker. > > This is NYCBUG :) > > By making it more convenient to you will be inconvenient I think 75% of the > members who are also resident New Yorkers and use public transportation. > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] > On Behalf Of Harold Bush > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 10:07 AM > To: talk at lists.nycbug.org > Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location > > Folks > > Is it possible to find meeting space closer to out-of-town transportation. I > > have to come down from Woodstock NY and being near GC or PA would make the > trip more doable. This may encourage others from the Hudson Valley also. > > BTW I am reading Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD". I'm about ?? way > through it. For someone like me who has been out of the Unix world for 8 > years the book is very useful. It would work for a newbie also. One should > be aware that the book promotes his point of view on topics such as file > systems etc. However, it seems to be complete in scope. > > Also, I'm looking for assistance in setting up a web server/mail server > using FreeBSD in early March. If anyone is interested please e-mail me off > list to discuss the specifics including compensation. > > We are in the process of designing a "Green PC" (lower power consumption, > environmentally friendly manufacturing processes/end product, and living > wage support). If anyone is interested in this project e-mail me off list. > > Thanks!! > > Harold > private e-mail address (no cc bcc list etc.) > harold at digitalbrands.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed > Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From trish Sun Feb 8 13:42:50 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:42:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <40254000.4020204@ocsny.com> References: <40254000.4020204@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040208134234.Y94553@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Mikel King wrote: > I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's > familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this thing > up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ irc.upan.org > once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed server and we can > CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... > > > -- > Cheers, > Mikel King > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > heh i guess I should volunteer for this rotfl. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From rbrown Sun Feb 8 14:17:38 2004 From: rbrown (Rodrick R. Brown) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:17:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040208134234.Y94553@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <200402081912.i18JCajO088067@kremlin.stereodreams.org> I say #nycbug @ efnet given I have been squatting in there for a few days now if anyone wants to get it going I can toss a bot or two in. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Trish Lynch Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 11:43 PM To: Mikel King Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] irc server On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Mikel King wrote: > I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's > familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this thing > up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ irc.upan.org > once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed server and we can > CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... > > > -- > Cheers, > Mikel King > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > heh i guess I should volunteer for this rotfl. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From dan Sun Feb 8 14:16:03 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:16:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <200402081912.i18JCajO088067@kremlin.stereodreams.org> References: <20040208134234.Y94553@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <402644A3.6230.10742081@localhost> On 8 Feb 2004 at 14:17, Rodrick R. Brown wrote: > I say #nycbug @ efnet given I have been squatting in there for a few days > now if anyone wants to get it going I can toss a bot or two in. I'm there too now... -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mikel.king Sun Feb 8 15:11:03 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:11:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402697D7.7000801@ocsny.com> While working in the BSDMall booth I meet a senior Sales & Marketing Manager for Apple. She gave me her card and already offered to be a guest . I you'd like I can make contact to see if she'd be available. G. Rosamond wrote: >the site has been updated to include a few things. > >the past events section now includes last wednesday's meeting, with wes >and jason's notes, pictures from felix and michael's mp3 files. . >.(streaming works but the d/l doesn't yet). > >the other michael is moving forward with the new site, so we can look >forward to that in the next few weeks. michael, you may want to post >status on this list. and put out another call for volunteers. > >additionally, michael and i are attending the "orgcom" this afternoon, >the attempt to organize a technical conference. again, it is composed >of two delegates from each user group, tech assoc, etc in the nyc metro >area. the beginnings were pretty sloppy, but it seems like more sober >heads are setting the tone now. we will update all after the meeting >with the status on this project. > >jeremy sohn from wasabi has promised me a netbsd/embedded system >engineer for the march meeting. however, we need to have a backup and >additional speakers for future meetings. please email me on or offlist >with not just topics, but speakers. > >we will make adjustments for a larger facility for the next meeting >also, whether at sagesecure again or elsewhere. this will be dealt with >sooner than later. > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org http://www.MySql.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. +------------------------------------------+ From scottro Sun Feb 8 15:19:31 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:19:31 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 5.1 -> 5.2 upgrade Message-ID: <20040208201931.GB23075@scottro11.homeunix.net> I did a few test upgrades of 5.1 to 5.2 without any problems. Then, when I did it on a couple of boxes that I actually use, it died during installworld Doing some googling indicated that there are some library compatibility issues, however, the problem seems infrequent--that is, on forums and on google I found a few instances of the same problem, but no one seemed to have a certain solution. I have one totally non-critical server at work where I'm planning to do it again. :) Although, if worst comes to worst and I have to reinstall, it's not a problem, I'm just wondering if anyone has run into this and come up with a solution. The only thing I've found mentioned that I hadn't done was before doing buildworld do make make. Anyone run into this, and if so, any ideas why it sometimes works and sometimes hasn't? The other things I've found mentioned as possibilities didn't apply--I have COMPAT enabled in the kernel, I do buildworld then build and install kernel, reboot in single user mode and do mergemaster -p before doing make installworld. Thanks for any answers. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Willow: So, how did it go? Xander: On a scale from one to ten? It sucked. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040208/ef2e568a/attachment.bin From mikel.king Sun Feb 8 15:20:04 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:20:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <200402081912.i18JCajO088067@kremlin.stereodreams.org> References: <200402081912.i18JCajO088067@kremlin.stereodreams.org> Message-ID: <402699F4.1080209@ocsny.com> Hi Trish, Rod; Could one of you just bot the thing up and we'll add the URL onto the site, and put this to bed. In either case the price is right, so let's just do it and call it a project completed...;-) Unless there are any objections, we'll call efnet home? Rodrick R. Brown wrote: >I say #nycbug @ efnet given I have been squatting in there for a few days >now if anyone wants to get it going I can toss a bot or two in. > >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] >On Behalf Of Trish Lynch >Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 11:43 PM >To: Mikel King >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] irc server > >On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Mikel King wrote: > > > >>I am working on an irc box for us...to use, I need a volunteer who's >>familiar with hybrid7...that wouldn't mind aiding in setting this thing >>up with chanbots et cettera...right now it's on my devbox @ irc.upan.org >>once things are rolling I'll shift it to a nice jailed server and we can >>CNAME it to irc.nycbug.org... >> >> >>-- >>Cheers, >>Mikel King >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>talk mailing list >>talk at lists.nycbug.org >>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> >> > >heh i guess I should volunteer for this > >rotfl. > >-Trish > > > > -- Cheers, Mikel King From mikel.king Sun Feb 8 15:34:28 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:34:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 5.1 -> 5.2 upgrade In-Reply-To: <20040208201931.GB23075@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <20040208201931.GB23075@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <40269D54.4040604@ocsny.com> Scott, I've heard mixed results abound. My buddy Pete over at Mozdev did a binary upgrade from 5.1 to 5.2 and it was all good, supposedly his production boxes are all happy. There've been a few reports though of stability issues from other camps, I think there was a slightly negative article on /. recently but then again that's no surprise, and from what I remember the issues were mostly regarding wifi cards. Personally I am waiting for a seriously compelling reason to move my boxes from 5.1 to 5.2. If this is production work that you can't run 4.x for then I recommend sticking to 5.1 and waiting for 5.3. Also keep in mind I've heard tell that there may be a 5.2_1 update to fix some of the booboos. Scott Robbins wrote: >I did a few test upgrades of 5.1 to 5.2 without any problems. > >Then, when I did it on a couple of boxes that I actually use, it died >during installworld > >Doing some googling indicated that there are some library compatibility >issues, however, the problem seems infrequent--that is, on forums and on >google I found a few instances of the same problem, but no one seemed to >have a certain solution. > >I have one totally non-critical server at work where I'm planning to do >it again. :) Although, if worst comes to worst and I have to >reinstall, it's not a problem, I'm just wondering if anyone has run into >this and come up with a solution. The only thing I've found mentioned >that I hadn't done was before doing buildworld do make make. > >Anyone run into this, and if so, any ideas why it sometimes works and >sometimes hasn't? The other things I've found mentioned as >possibilities didn't apply--I have COMPAT enabled in the kernel, I do >buildworld then build and install kernel, reboot in single user mode and >do mergemaster -p before doing make installworld. > >Thanks for any answers. > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel From scottro Sun Feb 8 15:42:13 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:42:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 5.1 -> 5.2 upgrade In-Reply-To: <40269D54.4040604@ocsny.com> References: <20040208201931.GB23075@scottro11.homeunix.net> <40269D54.4040604@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040208204213.GA25841@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 03:34:28PM -0500, Mikel King wrote: > Scott, > > I've heard mixed results abound. My buddy Pete over at Mozdev did a > binary upgrade from 5.1 to 5.2 and it was all good, supposedly his > production boxes are all happy. > > There've been a few reports though of stability issues from other camps, > I think there was a slightly negative article on /. recently but then > again that's no surprise, and from what I remember the issues were > mostly regarding wifi cards. Personally I am waiting for a seriously > compelling reason to move my boxes from 5.1 to 5.2. If this is > production work that you can't run 4.x for then I recommend sticking to > 5.1 and waiting for 5.3. Also keep in mind I've heard tell that there > may be a 5.2_1 update to fix some of the booboos. Yes, logic would indicate waiting. There is really no compelling reason to do it (some folks have said 5.2 is better--my own experience has been 6 of one half a dozen of the other for my needs) save curiosity. A lot of it will depend upon how busy I am this coming week--if I have time to kill, then I might just do it, since as I said, if I simply have to take this box down for a few hours and reinstall, it's not a big deal. Thanks for the input. One oddity--I have noticed that the boxes that gave me trouble had OpenOffice on them, and I have seen several reports of people having to reinstall OpenOffice after an upgrade. This box, being a server of sorts, doesn't have it. On the other hand, I don't see ~what~ that could have to do with installworld, and feel as if I'm grasping at straws. Or I might just wait a bit longer for the 5.2_1 you mentioned. Sigh, decisions, decisions. (I should be grateful I have enough luxury at times to play this way). -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Cordelia: Buffy, these men are rich, and I am not being shallow. Think of all the poor people I could help with all my money. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040208/5f05cb2f/attachment.bin From mikel.king Sun Feb 8 15:57:58 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:57:58 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <402666F0.5050404@travelersdiary.com> References: <200402081634.i18GYrjO075463@kremlin.stereodreams.org> <402666F0.5050404@travelersdiary.com> Message-ID: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> Penn Station isn't? ;-) Seriously we may have to consider if anything larger accomodations. Honestly we really have to thank SageSecure for taking the risk and making the space available in the first place. On top of that it's a fairly secure neighborhood with major subway, bus, and path train access within a block or so along 23rd street. However all things being equal; if you find a better location that offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if anyone would object to giving it a try. After all it's about the BSD right? Josh McCormack wrote: > He's talking about Grand Central or Port Authority - both major hubs > on the subway. > > Josh > > Rodrick R. Brown wrote: > >> I like most New Yorker's use public transportation :) >> Being able to get to almost any location in NYC via subway system is >> one of >> the perks of being a resident New Yorker. >> This is NYCBUG :) >> By making it more convenient to you will be inconvenient I think 75% >> of the >> members who are also resident New Yorkers and use public >> transportation. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] >> On Behalf Of Harold Bush >> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 10:07 AM >> To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location >> >> Folks >> >> Is it possible to find meeting space closer to out-of-town >> transportation. I >> >> have to come down from Woodstock NY and being near GC or PA would >> make the trip more doable. This may encourage others from the Hudson >> Valley also. >> >> BTW I am reading Greg Lehey's "The Complete FreeBSD". I'm about ?? >> way through it. For someone like me who has been out of the Unix >> world for 8 years the book is very useful. It would work for a newbie >> also. One should be aware that the book promotes his point of view on >> topics such as file systems etc. However, it seems to be complete in >> scope. >> >> Also, I'm looking for assistance in setting up a web server/mail >> server using FreeBSD in early March. If anyone is interested please >> e-mail me off list to discuss the specifics including compensation. >> >> We are in the process of designing a "Green PC" (lower power >> consumption, environmentally friendly manufacturing processes/end >> product, and living wage support). If anyone is interested in this >> project e-mail me off list. >> >> Thanks!! >> >> Harold >> private e-mail address (no cc bcc list etc.) >> harold at digitalbrands.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN >> High-Speed Marketplace. >> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Cheers, Mikel From george Sun Feb 8 17:24:54 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:24:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site. . . In-Reply-To: <402697D7.7000801@ocsny.com> Message-ID: ->While working in the BSDMall booth I meet a senior Sales & Marketing ->Manager for Apple. She gave me her card and already offered to be a ->guest . I you'd like I can make contact to see if she'd be available. actually. . .i did receive an email from from one in sales at apple, and responded to her and cc'd the list. . . go back in the archives. . .see if it's the same person. g From george Sun Feb 8 22:52:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:52:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> Message-ID: ->Penn Station isn't? ;-) i assume you mean in proximity to transportation. . . ->Seriously we may have to consider if anything larger accomodations. ->Honestly we really have to thank SageSecure for taking the risk and ->making the space available in the first place. On top of that it's a ->fairly secure neighborhood with major subway, bus, and path ->train access ->within a block or so along 23rd street. ditto. ->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that ->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if ->anyone would we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w 23rd? ->object to giving it a try. After all it's about the BSD right? corny line. . .how many times have you spit that out? g From ray Sun Feb 8 23:12:40 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:12:40 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: References: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040209041240.GC27958@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 10:52:27PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > ->Penn Station isn't? ;-) > > i assume you mean in proximity to transportation. . . > > ->Seriously we may have to consider if anything larger accomodations. > ->Honestly we really have to thank SageSecure for taking the risk and > ->making the space available in the first place. On top of that it's a > ->fairly secure neighborhood with major subway, bus, and path > ->train access > ->within a block or so along 23rd street. > > ditto. > > ->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that > ->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if > ->anyone would > > we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w > 23rd? The way you quote makes it very difficult to see who you were replying to. I can only guess that it's either Mikel or Josh from the CCs. > ->object to giving it a try. After all it's about the BSD right? > > corny line. . .how many times have you spit that out? That's also unnecessarily hostile. -Ray- From george Sun Feb 8 23:15:11 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:15:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <20040209041240.GC27958@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: ->On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 10:52:27PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: ->> ->Penn Station isn't? ;-) ->> ->> i assume you mean in proximity to transportation. . . ->> ->> ->Seriously we may have to consider if anything larger ->accomodations. ->> ->Honestly we really have to thank SageSecure for taking ->the risk and ->> ->making the space available in the first place. On top of ->that it's a ->> ->fairly secure neighborhood with major subway, bus, and path ->> ->train access ->> ->within a block or so along 23rd street. ->> ->> ditto. ->> ->> ->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that ->> ->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if ->> ->anyone would ->> ->> we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w ->> 23rd? -> ->The way you quote makes it very difficult to see who you were ->replying to. I can only guess that it's either Mikel or Josh ->from the CCs. sorry. . . ->> ->object to giving it a try. After all it's about the BSD right? ->> ->> corny line. . .how many times have you spit that out? -> ->That's also unnecessarily hostile. i apologize. . .i was referring to mikel. . .*he* knows it was a joke, but i probably should have added a really corny emoticon. again, my apologies. ->-Ray- g From george Mon Feb 9 00:00:56 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:00:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "orgcom" Message-ID: today was the second meeting of the various user groups in the new york area looking to organize a conference to replace fleeing linuxexpo and macworld. it was long, very long, some four hours. but it did include some 20 people who came out with some basic steps that are important for moving forward. first, we agreed on a broad mission statement. i don't have the copy in front of me right now, but i'll email out tomorrow once i get the meeting notes. second, we agreed to startup appropriate committees including outreach, mission/naming, legal status, and appointed 2 basic coordinators for putting together the next meeting. there are others who can comment further who are on the talk/nycbug list, as a number were there representing other groups. but at this point, we agreed to open the list up to anyone interested. be warned, much of the discussion is a bit over-detailed oriented, and a decent amount of flamming has occured. but if you interested, join up. just go to lists.nycbug.org, and join orgcom. as the orgcom list has opened up, outside of some periodic updates on the progress, this will be the last time i bore everyone with this. g From wes Mon Feb 9 00:05:58 2004 From: wes (Wes Sonnenreich) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:05:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: References: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <1213.68.161.184.62.1076303158.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> > ->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that > ->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if > ->anyone would > > we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w > 23rd? > Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. If future meetings are going to be structured around a speaker and gather larger attendance, that space won't work. But, the space does work well for things like installfests where we can spread into multiple rooms. Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for out of towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh and 23rd, it's easy from Penn and PA ... the only place it's not easy from is Grand Central... with that you need to walk two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or shuttle across to the 1/9. From george Mon Feb 9 00:09:30 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:09:30 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <1213.68.161.184.62.1076303158.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Wes Sonnenreich ->Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:06 AM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location ->Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. ->If future meetings are going to be structured around a ->speaker and gather larger attendance, that space won't work. ->But, the space does work well for things like installfests ->where we can spread into multiple rooms. -> ->Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for ->out of towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh ->and 23rd, it's easy from Penn and PA ... the only place it's ->not easy from is Grand Central... with that you need to walk ->two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or shuttle across ->to the 1/9. _______________________________________________ (wes). . . wes, couldn't we just knock down a few walls? seriously, any other recommendations for space? i think sagesecure is a great space, but we need something slightly larger. . . is it enough to just fit more chairs and remove more tables? g From scottro Mon Feb 9 08:54:12 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:54:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] update on upgrade from 5.1 -> 5.2 Message-ID: <20040209135412.GA707@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Sigh. Well, of course, as it is a work box, it died in that installworld. Next time I will wait for a 5.2_1 that was mentioned here. However, as I said there were a few mentions on google about it, and one suggestion was, if this happened, to put in the CD and choose upgrade. I did so, and that worked, which saved me a few hours work. Odd that the theoretically less safe binary upgrade worked. I would like to figure out exactly what causes this problem, but I can't reproduce it reliably, and the three boxes that don't really have that much in common. -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: You know, for someone who teaches human behavior, you might try showing some. Professor Walsh:It's not my job to coddle my students. Buffy: You're right. A human being in pain has nothing to do with your job. (leaves) Professor Walsh: I like her. Riley: Really? You don't think she's a little peculiar? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040209/b8bbde7a/attachment.bin From mikel.king Mon Feb 9 09:28:45 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:28:45 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4027991D.90001@ocsny.com> I am not sure exactly how feasible this might be but what about a webcast? If not the whole event then how about the highlights? G. Rosamond wrote: >->-----Original Message----- >->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Wes Sonnenreich >->Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:06 AM >->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location >->Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. >->If future meetings are going to be structured around a >->speaker and gather larger attendance, that space won't work. >->But, the space does work well for things like installfests >->where we can spread into multiple rooms. >-> >->Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for >->out of towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh >->and 23rd, it's easy from Penn and PA ... the only place it's >->not easy from is Grand Central... with that you need to walk >->two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or shuttle across >->to the 1/9. _______________________________________________ >(wes). . . > > GCT really isn't that bad, I walk down from there, but one could take the seven train one stop and transfer to the V train right? >wes, couldn't we just knock down a few walls? > >seriously, any other recommendations for space? i think sagesecure is a >great space, but we need something slightly larger. . . > >is it enough to just fit more chairs and remove more tables? > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From pete Mon Feb 9 09:29:29 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:29:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40279949.7080401@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: >->-----Original Message----- >->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Wes Sonnenreich >->Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:06 AM >->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org >->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location >->Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. >->If future meetings are going to be structured around a >->speaker and gather larger attendance, that space won't work. >->But, the space does work well for things like installfests >->where we can spread into multiple rooms. >-> >->Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for >->out of towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh >->and 23rd, it's easy from Penn and PA ... the only place it's >->not easy from is Grand Central... with that you need to walk >->two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or shuttle across >->to the 1/9. _______________________________________________ >(wes). . . > >wes, couldn't we just knock down a few walls? > >seriously, any other recommendations for space? i think sagesecure is a >great space, but we need something slightly larger. . . > >is it enough to just fit more chairs and remove more tables? > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > honestly for me the w23rd location is great, altho i live off the F and work on 22nd and 5th ;) has anything come from trying to get the tekserve people to give us some space? next time i'm over there i'll ask, and see what we might be able to get setup...maybe if we have enough people bugging them they'll finally break down ;^) -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From mspitze1 Mon Feb 9 11:10:16 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:10:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <40279949.7080401@nomadlogic.org> References: <40279949.7080401@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20040209111016.0b9c4b69.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:29:29 -0500 Pete Wright wrote: > honestly for me the w23rd location is great, altho i live off the F > and work on 22nd and 5th ;) has anything come from trying to get the > tekserve people to give us some space? next time i'm over there i'll > ask, and see what we might be able to get setup...maybe if we have > enough people bugging them they'll finally break down ;^) seconded, its a good spot. And I live/work on Long Island. marc From mikel.king Mon Feb 9 16:54:13 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:54:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <1213.68.161.184.62.1076303158.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> References: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> <1213.68.161.184.62.1076303158.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> Message-ID: <40280185.6070302@ocsny.com> I don't know how often this would work but how would everyone feel about two 30 minute sessions? I mean well split our group in half and use the two rooms across from each other. After 30 minutes or so take a break and swap speakers. Wes Sonnenreich wrote: >>->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that >>->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if >>->anyone would >> >>we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w >>23rd? >> >> >> > >Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. If future >meetings are going to be structured around a speaker and gather larger >attendance, that space won't work. But, the space does work well for >things like installfests where we can spread into multiple rooms. > >Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for out of >towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh and 23rd, it's easy >from Penn and PA ... the only place it's not easy from is Grand Central... >with that you need to walk two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or >shuttle across to the 1/9. >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From megan.restuccia Mon Feb 9 17:39:10 2004 From: megan.restuccia (Megan Restuccia) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:39:10 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <40280185.6070302@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <027601c3ef5d$89a4ecf0$93066f9c@cgc.cpmc.columbia.edu> Is there a Barnes & Nobles in the area, or a Kinko's... Usually you can hold meetings at B&N just by reserving an area in advance (usually without cost), otherwise the Kinko's conference rooms are usually a pretty decent size. The SageSecure room is a good size though, I think those chairs took up a lot more room than necessary. Is there anyway to get some benches? Hope this sparks some ideas! Megan -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org]On Behalf Of Mikel King Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:54 PM To: wes at sagesecure.com Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location I don't know how often this would work but how would everyone feel about two 30 minute sessions? I mean well split our group in half and use the two rooms across from each other. After 30 minutes or so take a break and swap speakers. Wes Sonnenreich wrote: >>->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that >>->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if >>->anyone would >> >>we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w >>23rd? >> >> >> > >Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. If future >meetings are going to be structured around a speaker and gather larger >attendance, that space won't work. But, the space does work well for >things like installfests where we can spread into multiple rooms. > >Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for out of >towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh and 23rd, it's easy >from Penn and PA ... the only place it's not easy from is Grand Central... >with that you need to walk two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or >shuttle across to the 1/9. >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From pete Mon Feb 9 18:10:29 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:10:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <027601c3ef5d$89a4ecf0$93066f9c@cgc.cpmc.columbia.edu> References: <027601c3ef5d$89a4ecf0$93066f9c@cgc.cpmc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <40281365.4020103@nomadlogic.org> Megan Restuccia wrote: >Is there a Barnes & Nobles in the area, or a Kinko's... Usually you can hold >meetings at B&N just by reserving an area in advance (usually without cost), >otherwise the Kinko's conference rooms are usually a pretty decent size. > > > yes there is a B&N around the corner on 22nd and 6th. there is also B&N at Union Sq. good call, i didn't think of those... pete >The SageSecure room is a good size though, I think those chairs took up a >lot more room than necessary. Is there anyway to get some benches? > >Hope this sparks some ideas! >Megan >-----Original Message----- >From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org >[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org]On Behalf Of Mikel King >Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:54 PM >To: wes at sagesecure.com >Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org >Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location > > >I don't know how often this would work but how would everyone feel about >two 30 minute sessions? I mean well split our group in half and use the >two rooms across from each other. After 30 minutes or so take a break >and swap speakers. > >Wes Sonnenreich wrote: > > > >>>->However all things being equal; if you find a better location that >>>->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt if >>>->anyone would >>> >>>we should look. . .wes, is there anything larger available at 116 w >>>23rd? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Unfortunately, those are the largest rooms in our facility. If future >>meetings are going to be structured around a speaker and gather larger >>attendance, that space won't work. But, the space does work well for >>things like installfests where we can spread into multiple rooms. >> >>Wish I had more space, because the location is good, even for out of >>towners. The reality is that with the 1/9 on Seventh and 23rd, it's easy >> >> >>from Penn and PA ... the only place it's not easy from is Grand Central... > > >>with that you need to walk two/three blocks over for the 4/5/6 or N/R, or >>shuttle across to the 1/9. >>_______________________________________________ >>talk mailing list >>talk at lists.nycbug.org >>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> >> >> > >-- >Cheers, >Mikel King >Optimized Computer Solutions, INC >39 West Fourteenth Street >Second Floor >New York, NY 10011 >http://www.ocsny.com > >+------------------------------------------+ >You may like them. You will see. You may >like them in a tree. >http://www.FreeBSD.org >http://www.OpenOffice.org >http://www.Mozilla.org >+------------------------------------------+ >How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use >each other, but optimists help each other. >Collaboration feeds your spirit, while >competition only stokes your ego. You'll >find the best way to get along. >+------------------------------------------+ > > > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Mon Feb 9 19:48:11 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:48:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <40280185.6070302@ocsny.com> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Mikel King ->Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 4:54 PM ->To: wes at sagesecure.com ->Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location -> -> ->I don't know how often this would work but how would everyone ->feel about ->two 30 minute sessions? I mean well split our group in half ->and use the ->two rooms across from each other. After 30 minutes or so take a break ->and swap speakers. -> ->Wes Sonnenreich wrote: -> ->>>->However all things being equal; if you find a better ->location that ->>>->offers enough space and the price is right then I doubt mikel: that could work in some circumstances, i guess, but i don't think it's a good launching point for a new group. g From ray Mon Feb 9 22:09:44 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:09:44 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <40280185.6070302@ocsny.com> References: <4026A2D6.4030307@ocsny.com> <1213.68.161.184.62.1076303158.squirrel@intranet.sagesecure.com> <40280185.6070302@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040210030944.GE27958@cybertron.cyth.net> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 04:54:13PM -0500, Mikel King wrote: > I don't know how often this would work but how would everyone feel about > two 30 minute sessions? I mean well split our group in half and use the > two rooms across from each other. After 30 minutes or so take a break > and swap speakers. I think it comes down to whether the speakers mind repeating their speeches. -Ray- From george Tue Feb 10 00:06:39 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:06:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <027601c3ef5d$89a4ecf0$93066f9c@cgc.cpmc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Megan Restuccia ->Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:39 PM ->To: 'Mikel King'; wes at sagesecure.com ->Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location -> -> ->Is there a Barnes & Nobles in the area, or a Kinko's... ->Usually you can hold meetings at B&N just by reserving an ->area in advance (usually without cost), otherwise the Kinko's ->conference rooms are usually a pretty decent size. -> ->The SageSecure room is a good size though, I think those ->chairs took up a lot more room than necessary. Is there ->anyway to get some benches? -> ->Hope this sparks some ideas! ->Megan i think it's a great idea. . . megan. . .are you in that area. . .? check it out. . . g From theotherbush Tue Feb 10 11:28:29 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:28:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N Message-ID: If the meeting is held at B&N perhaps they could put BSD books on a table near by which could generate sales for them, and possibly attract the attention of interested browsers. Also if there is a sign up in the store before the meeting it could be helpful in getting the word out. Harold _________________________________________________________________ Check out the great features of the new MSN 9 Dial-up, with the MSN Dial-up Accelerator. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From hans Tue Feb 10 12:10:26 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:10:26 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8777264B@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > If the meeting is held at B&N perhaps they could put BSD books on a table > near by which could generate sales for them, and possibly attract the > attention of interested browsers. Also if there is a sign up in the store > before the meeting it could be helpful in getting the word out. This, and the whole B&N prospect, is exciting. Anyone have an idea of how big of a crowd could be accomodated? H From mikel.king Tue Feb 10 12:20:18 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:20:18 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8777264B@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8777264B@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: <402912D2.5080800@ocsny.com> Well I went to a couple of book signings at the one at 2st street & 6th Ave location and there must have been at least 100 people there.... Hans Zaunere wrote: >>If the meeting is held at B&N perhaps they could put BSD books on a >> >> >table > > >>near by which could generate sales for them, and possibly attract the >>attention of interested browsers. Also if there is a sign up in the >> >> >store > > >>before the meeting it could be helpful in getting the word out. >> >> > >This, and the whole B&N prospect, is exciting. Anyone have an idea of >how big of a crowd could be accomodated? > >H >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From chrislist Tue Feb 10 12:26:58 2004 From: chrislist (Chris McCulloh) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:26:58 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <402912D2.5080800@ocsny.com> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8777264B@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> <402912D2.5080800@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040210122658.6c1755ec@st0wable> If Barnes & Noble were an option, it might be a good idea to consider the one on Union Square. It's right next to major transportation to all transit hubs without requiring any transfers (4/5/6 to Grand Central, N/R to Penn & Port Authority), and the top floor has a huge open space they often use for lectures and signings and speakers -- could seat over 100 comfortably without interfering with shoppers -- and the view is pretty nice as well. Just my $0.02 -chris On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:20:18 -0500 Mikel King said: > Well I went to a couple of book signings at the one at 2st street & 6th > Ave location and there must have been at least 100 people there.... -- Chris McCulloh Secure Systems Architect Sinetimore, LLC e: cmcculloh at sinetimore.com t: 212.504.0288 f: 212.656.1469 w: http://www.sinetimore.com a: 40 Broad Street, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10004, USA key: http://www.sinetimore.com/chriskey.pub -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040210/714cd611/attachment.bin From mikel.king Tue Feb 10 14:31:42 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:31:42 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <20040210122658.6c1755ec@st0wable> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8777264B@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> <402912D2.5080800@ocsny.com> <20040210122658.6c1755ec@st0wable> Message-ID: <4029319E.9090403@ocsny.com> Good call Chris, I totally forgot about that space. I just called over and left a message for the event's coordinator, when they call back I'll let everyone know how it goes. Chris McCulloh wrote: >If Barnes & Noble were an option, it might be a good idea to consider the >one on Union Square. It's right next to major transportation to all >transit hubs without requiring any transfers (4/5/6 to Grand Central, N/R >to Penn & Port Authority), and the top floor has a huge open space they >often use for lectures and signings and speakers -- could seat over 100 >comfortably without interfering with shoppers -- and the view is pretty >nice as well. > >Just my $0.02 > >-chris > >On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:20:18 -0500 >Mikel King said: > > > >>Well I went to a couple of book signings at the one at 2st street & 6th >>Ave location and there must have been at least 100 people there.... >> >> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From dan Tue Feb 10 15:39:09 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:39:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCan by train Message-ID: <4028FB1D.5051.1B0D1F26@localhost> Those of you thinking of coming up by train, have a look here: http://www.pointshotwireless.com/ <== We provide train and transit operators with mobile wireless solutions to attract and retain ridership, generate new revenue streams, and increase operational efficiencies to reduce costs. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From isptech151 Tue Feb 10 21:00:40 2004 From: isptech151 (Gerald) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:00:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> Why do so few people delve in to silc instead of IRC? Think of silc as IRC + SSL. silcd is easy to setup, lives in the ports and you get a secure layer. Not that a public channel like nycbug would have any secure conversations. I'm personally surprised that more people don't use silc. http://www.silcnet.org/ Windows users I send a copy of PuTTY and shell them in to a real OS. Gerald Coon P.S. I think this list has enough volume to merit moving it off my yahoo account that I rarely check and over to something I actually use. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From truk Tue Feb 10 21:58:15 2004 From: truk (Kurt Miller) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:58:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.deadly.org artical Message-ID: <003401c3f04a$e5e91610$200110ac@truk> It looks like the announcement was posted a little late on deadly. :( Anyway it is still a good opportunity to promote the group through comments on the article. Maybe someone could post some comments about the large turnout, good speakers, 4am carousing, etc. Many 'user group' articles at deadly usually don't turn into any real groups, but since NYCBUG has had a successful launch it would be of interest to readers of deadly. I'd post myself, but I would be talking to myself then. -Kurt From george Tue Feb 10 22:00:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:00:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ->If the meeting is held at B&N perhaps they could put BSD ->books on a table ->near by which could generate sales for them, and possibly attract the ->attention of interested browsers. Also if there is a sign up ->in the store ->before the meeting it could be helpful in getting the word out. -> ->Harold i think that's a great motive for b&n. . . the problem is getting through to the right people there. . . g From jschauma Tue Feb 10 22:06:54 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:06:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NetBSD now officially 501(c)(3) non-profit Message-ID: <20040211030654.GD24028@netmeister.org> The NetBSD Project is pleased to announce that The NetBSD Foundation Inc. now is classified as an Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) publicly-funded non-profit organization. Donations to the Foundation by US taxable entities are now fully tax-deductible. For more information about donations to The NetBSD Foundation: http://www.NetBSD.org/donations/ -- http://www.netbsd.org - Multiarchitecture OS, no hype required. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040210/b0a763a4/attachment.bin From george Tue Feb 10 22:12:36 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:12:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.deadly.org artical In-Reply-To: <003401c3f04a$e5e91610$200110ac@truk> Message-ID: ->It looks like the announcement was posted a little late on deadly. :( -> ->Anyway it is still a good opportunity to promote the group ->through comments on the article. Maybe someone could post ->some comments about the large turnout, good speakers, 4am ->carousing, etc. kurt: i agree. i was a bit confused by the tenses, then i realized it was your original meeting announcement. . .pretty funny. i think even posting a link to the /pastevents.html section of nycbug might be good. . .pictures, audio, meeting notes. things are moving in the right direction. there's a flurry of activity going on day-to-day by a good number of people related to nycbug. hopefully our future meetings will be posted earlier by them (and daemon news who also posted late, and then have been down). g From george Tue Feb 10 22:15:22 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:15:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NetBSD now officially 501(c)(3) non-profit In-Reply-To: <20040211030654.GD24028@netmeister.org> Message-ID: ->The NetBSD Project is pleased to announce that The NetBSD ->Foundation Inc. now is classified as an Internal Revenue Code ->501(c)(3) publicly-funded non-profit organization. -> ->Donations to the Foundation by US taxable entities are now ->fully tax-deductible. -> ->For more information about donations to The NetBSD Foundation: -> http://www.NetBSD.org/donations/ -> ->-- ->http://www.netbsd.org - -> Multiarchitecture OS, no hype required. hardware included? i think some of us could do some cleanup. . . we could get the stuff together (that's not useful for mikel king's concept) and do a donation in the name of nycbug. most importantly, it could make many families, significant others, etc, be *very* excited by the status change. . . g From jschauma Tue Feb 10 22:26:53 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:26:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NetBSD now officially 501(c)(3) non-profit In-Reply-To: References: <20040211030654.GD24028@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040211032653.GE24028@netmeister.org> "G. Rosamond" wrote: > ->Donations to the Foundation by US taxable entities are now > ->fully tax-deductible. > hardware included? i think some of us could do some cleanup. . . I'm not sure about the full legal ramifications of this status (hey, I'm not even allowed to vote in this country, but sure they make me pay ;-), but I would assume that in order for hardware donations to be tax-deductable TNF would need to provide the donor with a receipt etc. If anybody here is considering donations, please contact board at netbsd.org and/or finance-exec at netbsd.org. (Note that while hardware donations are of course appreciated if the hardware is useful and needed that you can't just get rid of your old junk this way. This often leads to a feeling of the donation not being appreciated, when that is in fact not the case: it's a question of logistics; the donation needs to make sense and not end up being a burden to the Foundation.) -Jan -- Probability factor of one to one. We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own lookout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040210/bfa02e41/attachment.bin From george Tue Feb 10 22:52:20 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:52:20 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] deadly post. . . Message-ID: posted a short response on deadly to kurt's article. only problem is the nycbug.org link doesn't include the protocol, so it's a bad link. . . g From ray Wed Feb 11 03:55:48 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:55:48 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 06:00:40PM -0800, Gerald wrote: > Why do so few people delve in to silc instead of IRC? That's not a bad idea. I've been wanting to try this out for a while. This would be the perfect excuse for me to try it out. > Not that a public channel like nycbug would have any secure > conversations. Does it matter? If it were up to me, everything would be encrypted--PGP/GPG encrypted E-mail, https all the time, sftp, etc. I don't see why we should only encrypt ``sensitive'' data--why should we give crackers such a limited set of data to work on? > I'm personally surprised that more people don't use silc. As am I, though the major reason is probably a lack of applications. -Ray- From pete Wed Feb 11 09:23:51 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:23:51 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server Message-ID: <402A3AF7.1040105@nomadlogic.org> Ray wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 06:00:40PM -0800, Gerald wrote: > > >> Why do so few people delve in to silc instead of IRC? >> > > > That's not a bad idea. I've been wanting to try this out for a > while. This would be the perfect excuse for me to try it out. > > > >> Not that a public channel like nycbug would have any secure >> conversations. >> > > > Does it matter? If it were up to me, everything would be > encrypted--PGP/GPG encrypted E-mail, https all the time, sftp, etc. > I don't see why we should only encrypt ``sensitive'' data--why > should we give crackers such a limited set of data to work on? > > > >> I'm personally surprised that more people don't use silc. > > > As am I, though the major reason is probably a lack of applications. > > -Ray- > > on a sort of related side note, has anyone here played with jabber? i've got a little dev server on one of my boxen that i use, it supports SSL and all that. it's also very extensible (you can hook jabber into a voice system for example). anyway if anyone is interested in using this instead of AIM or ICQ or what ever i'd suggest checking it out(i also believe there are chat room type functions altho i havn't check that out yet). it's open source, and there are ample *nix, mac and win clients out there. -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From okan Wed Feb 11 10:08:02 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:08:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040211150824.GN26532@stravinsky.khaoz.org> On Wed 2004.02.11 at 03:55 -0500, Ray wrote: > Does it matter? If it were up to me, everything would be > encrypted--PGP/GPG encrypted E-mail, https all the time, sftp, etc. > I don't see why we should only encrypt ``sensitive'' data--why > should we give crackers such a limited set of data to work on? on that note, how about a key signing corner at one of our meetings? okan -- From george Wed Feb 11 10:35:43 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:35:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] netbsd donations Message-ID: some of this stuff is likely around for many people, like the scsi drives. . . http://netbsd.org/contrib/hardware.html g From mikel.king Wed Feb 11 10:51:09 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:51:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402A4F6D.6050102@ocsny.com> One other thought, I was in my local Library out on LI last night, and they happen to have meeting rooms available, which of course doesn't do us any good here in the city, but is there any one who can check out the NYPL? The Midtown branch at 40th & 5th would be pretty good. G. Rosamond wrote: >->If the meeting is held at B&N perhaps they could put BSD >->books on a table >->near by which could generate sales for them, and possibly attract the >->attention of interested browsers. Also if there is a sign up >->in the store >->before the meeting it could be helpful in getting the word out. >-> >->Harold > >i think that's a great motive for b&n. . . > >the problem is getting through to the right people there. . . > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From jschauma Wed Feb 11 11:15:23 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:15:23 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211150824.GN26532@stravinsky.khaoz.org> References: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211150824.GN26532@stravinsky.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <20040211161522.GB14109@netmeister.org> Okan Demirmen wrote: > on that note, how about a key signing corner at one of our meetings? Seconded! All that's needed is for people to bring printouts of their key/fingerprint and a picture ID and all can be done offline after the meeting, too. -Jan -- "Ford," he said, "you're turning into a penguin. Stop it." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040211/e112ce95/attachment.bin From mspitze1 Wed Feb 11 12:26:50 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:26:50 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <402A4F6D.6050102@ocsny.com> References: <402A4F6D.6050102@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040211122650.57e32aa4.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:51:09 -0500 Mikel King wrote: > One other thought, I was in my local Library out on LI last night, and > > they happen to have meeting rooms available, which of course doesn't > do us any good here in the city, but is there any one who can check > out the NYPL? The Midtown branch at 40th & 5th would be pretty good. But can you bring coffee in to them? Most of the "newer" big book stores have a coffee/snack station in them. marc From mikel.king Wed Feb 11 12:40:32 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:40:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <20040211122650.57e32aa4.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <402A4F6D.6050102@ocsny.com> <20040211122650.57e32aa4.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <402A6910.3010007@ocsny.com> Ah yes a very important question. I know I can bring coffee into my local library out on the island...so one would have to think that it is possible here....hopefully some one who's local can check it out... Marc Spitzer wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:51:09 -0500 >Mikel King wrote: > > > >>One other thought, I was in my local Library out on LI last night, and >> >>they happen to have meeting rooms available, which of course doesn't >>do us any good here in the city, but is there any one who can check >>out the NYPL? The Midtown branch at 40th & 5th would be pretty good. >> >> > >But can you bring coffee in to them? Most of the "newer" big book stores have a coffee/snack station in them. > >marc > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From barry Wed Feb 11 14:17:42 2004 From: barry (Barry Kominik) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:17:42 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N In-Reply-To: <402A6910.3010007@ocsny.com> References: <402A4F6D.6050102@ocsny.com> <20040211122650.57e32aa4.mspitze1@optonline.net> <402A6910.3010007@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <402A7FD6.5070606@kominik.net> Mikel King wrote: > Ah yes a very important question. I know I can bring coffee into my > local library out on the island...so one would have to think that it > is possible here....hopefully some one who's local can check it out... > > Marc Spitzer wrote: > >> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:51:09 -0500 >> Mikel King wrote: >> >> >> >>> One other thought, I was in my local Library out on LI last night, and >>> >>> they happen to have meeting rooms available, which of course doesn't >>> do us any good here in the city, but is there any one who can check >>> out the NYPL? The Midtown branch at 40th & 5th would be pretty good. >>> >> >> >> But can you bring coffee in to them? Most of the "newer" big book >> stores have a coffee/snack station in them. >> >> marc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> > I work in midtown, I'll try to stop by the library after work. Rgds, Barry From isptech151 Wed Feb 11 15:59:16 2004 From: isptech151 (Gerald) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040211205916.58132.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ray wrote: > That's not a bad idea. I've been wanting to try > this out for a > while. This would be the perfect excuse for me to > try it out. If you want to connect to mine: silc.bsdisp.com #channel is global channel. @channel is a local channel. I'm in @nycbug. One of the sysadmins I work with got me in to it and I've got my silc.conf all setup to log me in to everything automatically with colors...etc. > As am I, though the major reason is probably a lack > of applications. Silc is a drop in replacement for IRC, but lack of client applications is a big thing. If I knew any windows programming I'd be tempted to write a windows silc client just to help it take off further. Gerald __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From isptech151 Wed Feb 11 16:46:36 2004 From: isptech151 (Gerald) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] update on upgrade from 5.1 -> 5.2 In-Reply-To: <20040209135412.GA707@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20040211214636.38516.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> --- Scott Robbins wrote: > However, as I said there were a few mentions on > google about it, and one > suggestion was, if this happened, to put in the CD > and choose upgrade. I > did so, and that worked, which saved me a few hours > work. > > Odd that the theoretically less safe binary upgrade > worked. We upgraded some 2.2.7 machines when I first got here up to 4.x by making backups of /etc and /usr/local/etc/* and doing binary upgrades. In my limited experience, any major revision jumps are easier on binary upgrades from CD with good backups. I shudder to think what 2.2.7 to 4.X would have been like with buildworld && kernel && install...etc. Gerald __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From scottro Wed Feb 11 17:02:54 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:02:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] update on upgrade from 5.1 -> 5.2 In-Reply-To: <20040211214636.38516.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040209135412.GA707@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> <20040211214636.38516.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040211220254.GA11331@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 01:46:36PM -0800, Gerald wrote: > > --- Scott Robbins wrote: > > However, as I said there were a few mentions on > > google about it, and one > > suggestion was, if this happened, to put in the CD > > and choose upgrade. I > > did so, and that worked, which saved me a few hours > > work. > > > > Odd that the theoretically less safe binary upgrade > > worked. > > We upgraded some 2.2.7 machines when I first got here > up to 4.x by making backups of /etc and > /usr/local/etc/* and doing binary upgrades. > > In my limited experience, any major revision jumps are > easier on binary upgrades from CD with good backups. > > I shudder to think what 2.2.7 to 4.X would have been > like with buildworld && kernel && install...etc. Heh, yeah, so do I. Actually, I didn't expect 5.1 to 5.2 to be major. Well, I learned something, and didn't even lose much time. Certainly a LOT less major than 2.x to 4.x. That one would have had me sweating. -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Oh, no... I have to go take an English make-up exam. They give you credit just for speaking it, right? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040211/3cfd42fd/attachment.bin From dan Wed Feb 11 19:27:27 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:27:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] change the topic, start a new message Message-ID: <402A821F.2191.210497C6@localhost> Folks: If you want to start a new topic, post a new message and start a new thread. It's The Right Thing To Do. Thanks. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From barry Thu Feb 12 13:45:57 2004 From: barry (Barry Kominik) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:45:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N] Message-ID: <402BC9E5.6060709@kominik.net> The big library on 42nd/5th does not offer any space where we can talk for free. However, when the weather gets warmer Bryant park may be a fun meeting place. They have free wifi! Barry -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Barry Kominik Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:17:42 -0500 Size: 3392 Url: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040212/acab1ecd/attachment.mht From trish Sun Feb 15 05:51:09 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:51:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211205916.58132.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040211205916.58132.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040215055024.N94553@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Gerald wrote: > > Silc is a drop in replacement for IRC, but lack of > client applications is a big thing. If I knew any > windows programming I'd be tempted to write a windows > silc client just to help it take off further. > > Gerald > nice, the silc-client uses irssi ;) thats what I use generally. I'm now on the silc server. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From george Sun Feb 15 09:20:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 09:20:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdvault post. . . Message-ID: finally. . . http://www.bsdvault.net/article.php?sid=786&mode=thread&order=0 so i guess it only takes a month to get our announcements up here. . . g From chun_lam Sun Feb 15 16:56:52 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:56:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! Message-ID: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2> > Hi All: > > I have a FreeBSD with a close port of 110. I am > trying to open this up so I can setup pop3 server. Since > this is a FreeBSD machine, I do have any experience with > opening ports on this. Can someone help? > > > > Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040215/1a2b02df/attachment.html From bsd Sun Feb 15 17:20:40 2004 From: bsd (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:20:40 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! References: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <002701c3f411$f4259170$0500a8c0@zeus> > I have a FreeBSD with a close port of 110. I am > trying to open this up so I can setup pop3 server. Since > this is a FreeBSD machine, I do have any experience with > opening ports on this. Can someone help? I think you want port 25 open for POP3. 110 is for SMTP. What MTA do you plan on using (qmail, postfix, sendmail, exim, etc.), and which version of FreeBSD are you using? -Kevin From jschauma Sun Feb 15 17:22:59 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:22:59 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <002701c3f411$f4259170$0500a8c0@zeus> References: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2> <002701c3f411$f4259170$0500a8c0@zeus> Message-ID: <20040215222259.GQ18548@netmeister.org> Kevin Reiter wrote: > I think you want port 25 open for POP3. 110 is for SMTP. Uhm, no. 25 is SMTP, 110 is POP3. Check your /etc/services. -Jan -- If there's anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot now! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040215/f8c76d40/attachment.bin From bsd Sun Feb 15 17:30:12 2004 From: bsd (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:30:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! References: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2><002701c3f411$f4259170$0500a8c0@zeus> <20040215222259.GQ18548@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <004d01c3f413$48c3bfd0$0500a8c0@zeus> Jan Schaumann wrote: > Uhm, no. 25 is SMTP, 110 is POP3. Check your /etc/services. Didja ever have one of those days? *sigh* From theotherbush Sun Feb 15 21:40:42 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:40:42 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports Message-ID: Folks I find it very useful to keep a downloaded copy of the ports file at hand. Here's the link for anyone interested. http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers Harold _________________________________________________________________ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From ray Mon Feb 16 03:51:56 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 03:51:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040216085156.GB31257@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:40:42PM -0500, Harold Bush wrote: > Folks > > I find it very useful to keep a downloaded copy of the ports file at hand. > Here's the link for anyone interested. > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers I use /etc/services. -Ray- From rbrown Mon Feb 16 08:34:36 2004 From: rbrown (Rodrick R. Brown) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:34:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <200402161329.i1GDTpjO001303@kremlin.stereodreams.org> You question is quite clear unless your already using the port or administratively disabled the port by blocking it with ipfilter or such there is no real way of shutting down a port. Try the following perl -p -i.bak -e 's/^#pop3/pop3/' /etc/services restart inetd Try using netstat to verify the pop3 service is listening $ netstat -a| grep pop tcp4 0 0 *.pop3 *.* LISTEN as this point you should be able to connect to your pop server internally. If this isnt working it might be a firewall or such out of your control try contacting your network administrator for more assistance. _____ From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Lam Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:57 PM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! > Hi All: > > I have a FreeBSD with a close port of 110. I am > trying to open this up so I can setup pop3 server. Since > this is a FreeBSD machine, I do have any experience with > opening ports on this. Can someone help? > > > > Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040216/0fd0ac1e/attachment.html From jschauma Mon Feb 16 11:20:05 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:20:05 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <200402161329.i1GDTpjO001303@kremlin.stereodreams.org> References: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2> <200402161329.i1GDTpjO001303@kremlin.stereodreams.org> Message-ID: <20040216162005.GB26269@netmeister.org> "Rodrick R. Brown" wrote: > Try the following > > perl -p -i.bak -e 's/^#pop3/pop3/' /etc/services > > restart inetd I'm not sure I understand your advise correctly, but making a change to /etc/services and then restarting inetd... that would assume that the OP has already uncommented the service in /etc/inetd.conf and the only reason it's not working is due to inetd not being able to resolve the port number from the service name. To the OP: install the pop3 daemon of your choice, then read its documentation. I don't know FreeBSD, does it come with a pop3 daemon as part of the base install? Often pop3 is run from inetd, so adding the proper line to /etc/inetd.conf (and then making sure the correct port<->name mapping is not uncommented in /etc/services (though I don't know why pop3 would be commented in there)) and restarting inetd should get you into business. pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/pkg/libexec/popa3d popa3d might be an appropriate example line for /etc/inetd.conf. As I said, consult the documentation of your pop3 daemon for details. -Jan -- Information wants to be free. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040216/3c29c4d7/attachment.bin From bsd Mon Feb 16 11:41:51 2004 From: bsd (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:41:51 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! References: <008801c3f40e$9e789d10$0400000a@java2><200402161329.i1GDTpjO001303@kremlin.stereodreams.org> <20040216162005.GB26269@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <012001c3f4ab$c749e6c0$0500a8c0@zeus> If you're using qmail (since I don't know which MTA you plan on/are using,) it's recommended to also install daemontools (/usr/potrs/mail/daemontools-xxx) which will handle starting/stopping qmail-smtpd and qmail-pop3d. If you do, you shouldn't need to modify /etc/services or /etc/inetd.conf at all. If you're using that host as a firewall as well, you'll need to allow all traffic on 25 and 110 on the external interface through. If this is a standalone box behind a firewall, you'll ned to route all traffic on ports 25 and 110 to the host running the MTA using natd on the firewall/router (if it's FreeBSD/*nix.) I don't know how the install of FreeBSD was done, therefore I can't tell you where the problem lies, as there's a choice during install time to use inetd or not. Please provide more information on the machine as well as which MTA you plan on/are using, and if it's behind a firewall or not. Kevin From rbrown Mon Feb 16 13:24:53 2004 From: rbrown (Rodrick R. Brown) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:24:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <20040216162005.GB26269@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <200402161823.i1GINXjO024899@kremlin.stereodreams.org> Pftt duh I ment /etc/inetd.conf not services -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Jan Schaumann Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:20 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! "Rodrick R. Brown" wrote: > Try the following > > perl -p -i.bak -e 's/^#pop3/pop3/' /etc/services > > restart inetd I'm not sure I understand your advise correctly, but making a change to /etc/services and then restarting inetd... that would assume that the OP has already uncommented the service in /etc/inetd.conf and the only reason it's not working is due to inetd not being able to resolve the port number from the service name. To the OP: install the pop3 daemon of your choice, then read its documentation. I don't know FreeBSD, does it come with a pop3 daemon as part of the base install? Often pop3 is run from inetd, so adding the proper line to /etc/inetd.conf (and then making sure the correct port<->name mapping is not uncommented in /etc/services (though I don't know why pop3 would be commented in there)) and restarting inetd should get you into business. pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/pkg/libexec/popa3d popa3d might be an appropriate example line for /etc/inetd.conf. As I said, consult the documentation of your pop3 daemon for details. -Jan -- Information wants to be free. From lists Tue Feb 17 08:02:29 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi Message-ID: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200401/wifi-ipsec.html FreeBSD Wi-Fi IPsec easy-setup guide Abstract An IPsec tunneling connection was set up between a MS-Windows host with wireless Ethernet and a FreeBSD NAT gateway. This setup allowed the mobile host to have a secure and encrypted connection over an inherently insecure wifi radio network. Introduction -- --- From mspitze1 Tue Feb 17 08:11:03 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:11:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> References: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 michael wrote: > If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi > segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. Secure and wep don't go together. Wep is 1/2 step removed from plain text > > http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200401/wifi-ipsec.html > > FreeBSD Wi-Fi IPsec easy-setup guide > Abstract And thanks for the link, its a good article. marc From dan Tue Feb 17 08:20:11 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040217081928.P36264@xeon.unixathome.org> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 > michael wrote: > > > If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi > > segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. > > Secure and wep don't go together. Wep is 1/2 step removed from plain > text Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? From lists Tue Feb 17 08:50:21 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:50:21 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217081928.P36264@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040217081928.P36264@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040217085021.4a861d56.lists@genoverly.net> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the author's own words. I guess it lost something in the translation to Canadian. To answer your question:Yes - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] Please use "instead of" instead of "over". There... clearer? Michael -- --- From dan Tue Feb 17 08:56:04 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217085021.4a861d56.lists@genoverly.net> References: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040217081928.P36264@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040217085021.4a861d56.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040217085521.A38759@xeon.unixathome.org> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, michael wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > > > > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the author's own > words. I guess it lost something in the translation to Canadian. > > To answer your question:Yes > - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] > - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] > > Please use "instead of" instead of "over". > > There... clearer? > Michael Hmm, even if is is possible to run IPsec over WEP, it'll still be secure. -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mspitze1 Tue Feb 17 09:16:42 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:16:42 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217085521.A38759@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040217080229.69158965.lists@genoverly.net> <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040217081928.P36264@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040217085021.4a861d56.lists@genoverly.net> <20040217085521.A38759@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040217091642.4e35e8b4.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, michael wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > > > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > > > > > > > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the > > author's own words. I guess it lost something in the translation to > > Canadian. > > That what you get for having too much alcohol in your beer. > > To answer your question:Yes > > - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] > > - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] > > > > Please use "instead of" instead of "over". > > > > There... clearer? > > Michael > > Hmm, even if is is possible to run IPsec over WEP, it'll still be > secure. It is, wep is layer 2 and ipsec is layer 3. marc From george Tue Feb 17 10:15:15 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:15:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi In-Reply-To: <20040217091642.4e35e8b4.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: i know at least one person on this list is/was involved in using a bsd for a wlan in new york city. there may be a useful how-to document in this. . .something that goes from a to z on setting up a public wlan on bsd. g From chun_lam Tue Feb 17 10:38:03 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:38:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Message-ID: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> Thank you all, My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason (maybe for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. Also Thanks for the help Rodrick, there is no admin here. We all do everything here. ;-) Program, admin, etc. It is a small place with only a few people (mostly friends). Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040217/993d1f9d/attachment.html From scottro Tue Feb 17 11:04:15 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:04:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. In-Reply-To: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> References: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <20040217160415.GA7283@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 10:38:03AM -0500, Matthew Lam wrote: > Thank you all, > > > > My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the > problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason (maybe > for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. Hrm, I ran a mail-server briefly on 5.2 without any issues of 25 and 110 being closed by default. Heh, that's a lot of help, isn't it? -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Joyce: You belong in a good old fashioned college with keg parties and boys. Not here with Hellmouths and vampires. Buffy: Not really seeing the distinction. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040217/abba610d/attachment.bin From george Tue Feb 17 11:07:39 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:07:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. In-Reply-To: <20040217160415.GA7283@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: ->> My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that ->might be the ->> problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason ->> (maybe for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. -> ->Hrm, I ran a mail-server briefly on 5.2 without any issues of ->25 and 110 being closed by default. Heh, that's a lot of ->help, isn't it? to be honest. . .i'm a bit confused. did you try telnet'g to 110? there shouldn't be any issues in the default install. g From bsd Tue Feb 17 11:14:49 2004 From: bsd (Kevin Reiter) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:14:49 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. References: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <001501c3f571$2b1baf10$0500a8c0@zeus> > My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason (maybe for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. I'm running qmail on 5.2-RELEASE and haven't had any problems yet. What are you using for your mail server? Is this machine sitting behind a firewall? Please let us know which MTA (mail server - qmail, postfix, sendmail, exim, etc.) you're using so we can better assist you with the configuration issues. -Kevin From mspitze1 Tue Feb 17 11:32:15 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:32:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. In-Reply-To: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> References: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <20040217113215.4c468c9a.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:38:03 -0500 Matthew Lam wrote: > Thank you all, > > > > My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the > problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason > (maybe for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. Upgrade to 5.2, 5.0 has been End of Lifed and is not supported any more, http://www.freebsd.org/releng/ has some more info. marc From chun_lam Tue Feb 17 19:23:51 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:23:51 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <20040217160423.480A6A8796@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <00c701c3f5b5$7c4ca7b0$0400000a@java2> Yes Scott. That does help. At least you are telling me that I am doing something wrong and that my guess of 5.0 having close port 110 by default is wrong. It also proved that I really need help ;-) As to Kevin's question, I am using qmail. I did install the daemontools, but when I did within the firewall a telnet session to localhost 110. This is where I discovered that it was closed. Is there anyway to open the port back up? Matthew -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nycbug.org Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:04 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 Send talk mailing list submissions to talk at lists.nycbug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-request at lists.nycbug.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-owner at lists.nycbug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of talk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! (Jan Schaumann) 2. Re: RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! (Kevin Reiter) 3. RE: RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! (Rodrick R. Brown) 4. BSD WiFi (michael) 5. Re: BSD WiFi (Marc Spitzer) 6. Re: BSD WiFi (Dan Langille) 7. Re: BSD WiFi (michael) 8. Re: BSD WiFi (Dan Langille) 9. Re: BSD WiFi (Marc Spitzer) 10. RE: BSD WiFi (G. Rosamond) 11. RE: RE: Close port with no direction to open. (Matthew Lam) 12. Re: RE: Close port with no direction to open. (Scott Robbins) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:20:05 -0500 From: Jan Schaumann Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040216162005.GB26269 at netmeister.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Rodrick R. Brown" wrote: > Try the following > > perl -p -i.bak -e 's/^#pop3/pop3/' /etc/services > > restart inetd I'm not sure I understand your advise correctly, but making a change to /etc/services and then restarting inetd... that would assume that the OP has already uncommented the service in /etc/inetd.conf and the only reason it's not working is due to inetd not being able to resolve the port number from the service name. To the OP: install the pop3 daemon of your choice, then read its documentation. I don't know FreeBSD, does it come with a pop3 daemon as part of the base install? Often pop3 is run from inetd, so adding the proper line to /etc/inetd.conf (and then making sure the correct port<->name mapping is not uncommented in /etc/services (though I don't know why pop3 would be commented in there)) and restarting inetd should get you into business. pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/pkg/libexec/popa3d popa3d might be an appropriate example line for /etc/inetd.conf. As I said, consult the documentation of your pop3 daemon for details. -Jan -- Information wants to be free. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040216/3c29c4d7/att achment-0001.bin ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:41:51 -0500 From: "Kevin Reiter" Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! To: Message-ID: <012001c3f4ab$c749e6c0$0500a8c0 at zeus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you're using qmail (since I don't know which MTA you plan on/are using,) it's recommended to also install daemontools (/usr/potrs/mail/daemontools-xxx) which will handle starting/stopping qmail-smtpd and qmail-pop3d. If you do, you shouldn't need to modify /etc/services or /etc/inetd.conf at all. If you're using that host as a firewall as well, you'll need to allow all traffic on 25 and 110 on the external interface through. If this is a standalone box behind a firewall, you'll ned to route all traffic on ports 25 and 110 to the host running the MTA using natd on the firewall/router (if it's FreeBSD/*nix.) I don't know how the install of FreeBSD was done, therefore I can't tell you where the problem lies, as there's a choice during install time to use inetd or not. Please provide more information on the machine as well as which MTA you plan on/are using, and if it's behind a firewall or not. Kevin ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 13:24:53 -0500 From: "Rodrick R. Brown" Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! To: "'Jan Schaumann'" , Message-ID: <200402161823.i1GINXjO024899 at kremlin.stereodreams.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pftt duh I ment /etc/inetd.conf not services -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Jan Schaumann Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 11:20 AM To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! "Rodrick R. Brown" wrote: > Try the following > > perl -p -i.bak -e 's/^#pop3/pop3/' /etc/services > > restart inetd I'm not sure I understand your advise correctly, but making a change to /etc/services and then restarting inetd... that would assume that the OP has already uncommented the service in /etc/inetd.conf and the only reason it's not working is due to inetd not being able to resolve the port number from the service name. To the OP: install the pop3 daemon of your choice, then read its documentation. I don't know FreeBSD, does it come with a pop3 daemon as part of the base install? Often pop3 is run from inetd, so adding the proper line to /etc/inetd.conf (and then making sure the correct port<->name mapping is not uncommented in /etc/services (though I don't know why pop3 would be commented in there)) and restarting inetd should get you into business. pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/pkg/libexec/popa3d popa3d might be an appropriate example line for /etc/inetd.conf. As I said, consult the documentation of your pop3 daemon for details. -Jan -- Information wants to be free. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 From: michael Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: Message-ID: <20040217080229.69158965.lists at genoverly.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200401/wifi-ipsec.html FreeBSD Wi-Fi IPsec easy-setup guide Abstract An IPsec tunneling connection was set up between a MS-Windows host with wireless Ethernet and a FreeBSD NAT gateway. This setup allowed the mobile host to have a secure and encrypted connection over an inherently insecure wifi radio network. Introduction -- --- ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:11:03 -0500 From: Marc Spitzer Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217081103.756f92f8.mspitze1 at optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 michael wrote: > If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi > segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. Secure and wep don't go together. Wep is 1/2 step removed from plain text > > http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200401/wifi-ipsec.html > > FreeBSD Wi-Fi IPsec easy-setup guide > Abstract And thanks for the link, its a good article. marc ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: Marc Spitzer Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217081928.P36264 at xeon.unixathome.org> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:29 -0500 > michael wrote: > > > If you haven't seen this yet, here's an article about securing a wifi > > segment of a home LAN, choosing IPsec over WEP. > > Secure and wep don't go together. Wep is 1/2 step removed from plain > text Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:50:21 -0500 From: michael Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: Dan Langille Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217085021.4a861d56.lists at genoverly.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the author's own words. I guess it lost something in the translation to Canadian. To answer your question:Yes - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] Please use "instead of" instead of "over". There... clearer? Michael -- --- ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Langille Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: michael Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217085521.A38759 at xeon.unixathome.org> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, michael wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > > > > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the author's own > words. I guess it lost something in the translation to Canadian. > > To answer your question:Yes > - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] > - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] > > Please use "instead of" instead of "over". > > There... clearer? > Michael Hmm, even if is is possible to run IPsec over WEP, it'll still be secure. -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:16:42 -0500 From: Marc Spitzer Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217091642.4e35e8b4.mspitze1 at optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:56:04 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, michael wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:20:11 -0500 (EST) > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > > > > Does Micheal mean "choosing IPsec instead of WEP"? > > > > > > > I'll admit, it may have been ambiguous, but, I actually chose the > > author's own words. I guess it lost something in the translation to > > Canadian. > > That what you get for having too much alcohol in your beer. > > To answer your question:Yes > > - as in [choosing protocol A over protocol B] > > - not [choosing to run protocol A on top of protocol B] > > > > Please use "instead of" instead of "over". > > > > There... clearer? > > Michael > > Hmm, even if is is possible to run IPsec over WEP, it'll still be > secure. It is, wep is layer 2 and ipsec is layer 3. marc ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:15:15 -0500 From: "G. Rosamond" Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] BSD WiFi To: "'Marc Spitzer'" , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" i know at least one person on this list is/was involved in using a bsd for a wlan in new york city. there may be a useful how-to document in this. . .something that goes from a to z on setting up a public wlan on bsd. g ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:38:03 -0500 From: "Matthew Lam" Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. To: Message-ID: <00c201c3f56c$08287c90$0400000a at java2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you all, My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason (maybe for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. Also Thanks for the help Rodrick, there is no admin here. We all do everything here. ;-) Program, admin, etc. It is a small place with only a few people (mostly friends). Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040217/993d1f9d/att achment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:04:15 -0500 From: Scott Robbins Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Message-ID: <20040217160415.GA7283 at nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 10:38:03AM -0500, Matthew Lam wrote: > Thank you all, > > > > My OS is FreeBSD 5.0, which is pretty new. I think that might be the > problem. It might have port 110 close by default for some reason (maybe > for security reason). I will try 4.9 version and see. Hrm, I ran a mail-server briefly on 5.2 without any issues of 25 and 110 being closed by default. Heh, that's a lot of help, isn't it? -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Joyce: You belong in a good old fashioned college with keg parties and boys. Not here with Hellmouths and vampires. Buffy: Not really seeing the distinction. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040217/abba610d/att achment.bin ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk End of talk Digest, Vol 3, Issue 14 *********************************** From jschauma Tue Feb 17 20:20:30 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <00c701c3f5b5$7c4ca7b0$0400000a@java2> References: <20040217160423.480A6A8796@virtu.nyphp.org> <00c701c3f5b5$7c4ca7b0$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> Matthew Lam wrote: > Yes Scott. That does help. Much unlike your posting, which included: - top posting - a full quote of the (entire ?) thread beneath - no quotation as to what you are refering to in particular Is it really too much to ask for normal netiquette on this list? Oh well, I guess it'll end up in the bit-bucket, then. -Jan -- Probability factor of one to one. We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own lookout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040217/4d17d242/attachment.bin From george Wed Feb 18 00:03:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:03:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . Message-ID: some people are new to lists, some are just sloppy (like me). but some people use pine, some use outlook. here's some helpful advice on posting on this and other lists. . . 1. no top posting. this means don't reply to a message and start replying at the top of the text. it's hard to follow the flow of the discussion if you're using a text mua. 2. quoting others is for useful reference to the discussion. keep this in mind if you are getting the digest version of this list. 3. and on a more general NYCbug (yes, nice) level, RTFM (read the f'g manual) is an inappropriate response to anyone. this list is open to all, and part of nycbug's goal is to provide a bridge to newer *BSD users. if something is obvious to a responder who has some decades of bsd experience, then please provide a link to online documentation to help enlighten the poster. 4. and here's a useful document on usenet/list etiquette: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html (thanks jan) 5. finally, please don't complain about those who type in all lower case. well, please not me at least. ;-) but in no case should anyone type in ALL CAPs. that means you're shouting, and will be responded to as such. g From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 00:09:54 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:09:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> References: <20040217160423.480A6A8796@virtu.nyphp.org> <00c701c3f5b5$7c4ca7b0$0400000a@java2> <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040218000954.106d7956.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500 Jan Schaumann wrote: > Is it really too much to ask for normal netiquette on this list? Time will tell, although I hope not. For those of you who do not know what netiquette is it is good manners for email and net news. It also helps you communicate more effectively with other people in this medium Here are the basic rules on how it should work: when commenting on or replying to an article/email do the following: 1: Comment below the text you are commenting on, this makes the readers job of figuring out what you are commenting on simple. 2: Delete stuff that you are not commenting on from your message, again it helps the reader. 3: do not edit for content to the point the content changes, this is dishonest ans should not be done. This benefits all of us as it fosters good discussions. marc From dan Wed Feb 18 00:13:18 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:18 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <20040218000954.106d7956.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> On 18 Feb 2004 at 0:09, Marc Spitzer wrote: > Here are the basic rules on how it should work: > > when commenting on or replying to an article/email do the > following: > > 1: Comment below the text you are commenting on, this makes > the readers job of figuring out what you are commenting on > simple. > > 2: Delete stuff that you are not commenting on from your message, > again it helps the reader. > > 3: do not edit for content to the point the content changes, > this is dishonest ans should not be done. > > This benefits all of us as it fosters good discussions. Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads from somewhere? And some bad examples too. cheers -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Wed Feb 18 00:13:48 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:48 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . Message-ID: i may be working out a deal with a local computer store to provide wireless access in our neighborhood. we'll setup two access points, and look to restrict access by mac address (yeah, yeah, i know it's spoofable). while i have truly fallen in love with the apple airport (wpa with or without radius, closed networks, so easy to configure yet so sophisticated), i may just look to use bsd access points. i've read through enough of the documentation and don't believe it would be too monumental a task. . . questions: 1. i haven't yet setup a bsd box as an access point. are there any useful apps to restrict by mac? i have played for a long while with bsd-airtools, configured a few different wireless cards on bsd, but that's the extent of my wireless bsd experience. 2. more generally, what are the issues with the isp's and reselling their bandwidth. has anyone dealt with this type of thing? any other points to add-on? thanks for the insight. g From george Wed Feb 18 00:15:07 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:15:07 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Dan Langille ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:13 AM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction ->to open. Help!!! -> -> ->On 18 Feb 2004 at 0:09, Marc Spitzer wrote: -> ->> Here are the basic rules on how it should work: ->> ->> when commenting on or replying to an article/email do the ->> following: ->> ->> 1: Comment below the text you are commenting on, this makes the ->> readers job of figuring out what you are commenting on simple. ->> ->> 2: Delete stuff that you are not commenting on from your message, ->> again it helps the reader. ->> ->> 3: do not edit for content to the point the content changes, ->> this is dishonest ans should not be done. ->> ->> This benefits all of us as it fosters good discussions. -> ->Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads ->from somewhere? And some bad examples too. -> ->cheers ->-- ->Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ ->BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ let's not pick on anyone. . .i think the general guidelines should be instructive enough. be nice daniel. g From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 00:23:56 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:23:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:03:02 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > 3. and on a more general NYCbug (yes, nice) level, RTFM (read the f'g > manual) is an inappropriate response to anyone. this list is open to > all, and part of nycbug's goal is to provide a bridge to newer *BSD > users. if something is obvious to a responder who has some decades of > bsd experience, then please provide a link to online documentation to > help enlighten the poster. Well it the 'friendly' manual after all. And I think that rtfm is proper when it will fix the problem. I personally do this with a man page, ie man ifconfig or man man to get people started. I have found that this helps people become competent much quicker because they are learning how to interact with the system in a productive manner so as new problems come up they have a procedure in place to solve them instead of continually asking for help and when they do need to ask for help they ask better questions. This gives them better and faster answers so everybody wins. Admittedly there are people who do not want to do this, clients is a good word for them. This is not meant as an insult just a statement of fact. They do not want to deal with this but need it done so they pay someone to do it for them. marc From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 00:41:59 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:41:59 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> Message-ID: <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:18 -0500 Dan Langille wrote: > Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads > from somewhere? And some bad examples too. ok top post on this and do other silly thing, purely as a community service of course, and I will point out the bad bits. Thanks for stepping up to the plate like that. marc ps this is a good example, short sweet and to the point. marc From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 00:48:50 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:48:50 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:41:59 -0500 Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:18 -0500 > Dan Langille wrote: > > > Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads > > from somewhere? And some bad examples too. > > ok top post on this and do other silly thing, purely as a community > service of course, and I will point out the bad bits. Thanks for > stepping up to the plate like that. > > marc > > ps this is a good example, short sweet and to the point. add one more rule: 4: the subject line should make sense relative to message So I was wrong this is not a good message. marc > > marc > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From scottro Wed Feb 18 00:59:38 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:59:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> Message-ID: <20040218055937.GA2126@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 12:13:18AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > On 18 Feb 2004 at 0:09, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > Here are the basic rules on how it should work: > > > > when commenting on or replying to an article/email do the > > following: > > > > 1: Comment below the text you are commenting on, this makes > > the readers job of figuring out what you are commenting on > > simple. > > Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads > from somewhere? And some bad examples too. My favorite. Yes please. With cream and a bit of sugar. Would you like some coffee? How would you like it? I have a faq that although a bit dated was created for a few Linux newbie lists. There is a section on netiquette, with a link to a friend's even better section on netiquette, if anyone is interested. It's at http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/linfaq.html#netiquette Some of it might be of use (it's directed towards some yahoo groups lists, so there's some yahoo specific stuff about trimming their ads, etc.) -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Cordelia: I guess you should know since you helped raise that demon that killed that guy that time. Giles: Yes, do bring that up as often as possible. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/56ffec21/attachment.bin From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 01:50:04 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:50:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:48:50 -0500 Marc Spitzer wrote: > add one more rule: > > 4: the subject line should make sense relative to message > > So I was wrong this is not a good message. > > marc One last bit, if you reply to the list please do not CC the people on the list individually. Getting multiple copies of the same message is annoying. Also please set your editor to wrap at column 72 or a little before. By wrap I mean insert a CR to terminate the line not just fold the text. marc From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 01:19:26 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:19:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040218011926.38af277d.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:48 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > i may be working out a deal with a local computer store to provide > wireless access in our neighborhood. > > we'll setup two access points, and look to restrict access by mac > address (yeah, yeah, i know it's spoofable). > > while i have truly fallen in love with the apple airport (wpa with or > without radius, closed networks, so easy to configure yet so > sophisticated), i may just look to use bsd access points. i've read > through enough of the documentation and don't believe it would be too > monumental a task. . . have you considdered buying a bridge(seperate device) for each point and connecting them to the computer via ethernet? they have some advantages: 1: ethernet is simpler to deal with then wifi. 2: they generally put out more power then wifi cards. 3: support becomes a lot simpler 4: easier to move around I do not think there is a big cost difference between card and bridge. marc ps this is my second reply to this post, if I do not see the first reply in the morning I will repost. marc From ray Wed Feb 18 05:28:43 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 05:28:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 01:50:04AM -0500, Marc Spitzer wrote: > One last bit, if you reply to the list please do not CC > the people on the list individually. Getting multiple > copies of the same message is annoying. >From the pf mailing list: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-pf&m=106330397417256&w=2 > On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 07:37:44PM +0200, Ed White wrote: > > > P.P.S. I'm subscribed to the list ! > > Please do not write me in cc every time ;-) > > You can't exorcise the habit, that's what procmail is for ;) > > :0Whc: msgid.lock > | formail -D 65535 msgid.cache > :0a: > in-x-dupes > > Daniel I don't think there is a way to just reply to the list without manually messing with the Cc: and To: headers, and that's just too much of a hassle to do for every reply. -Ray- From scottro Wed Feb 18 06:10:39 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:10:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040218111039.GA3545@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 05:28:43AM -0500, Ray wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 01:50:04AM -0500, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > One last bit, if you reply to the list please do not CC > > the people on the list individually. Getting multiple > > copies of the same message is annoying. > > > > > I don't think there is a way to just reply to the list without > manually messing with the Cc: and To: headers, and that's just too > much of a hassle to do for every reply. With mutt, just put subscribe talk at lists in your .muttrc Then, when answering a post on the list, hit L (upper case) and you're good. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: She must be right. We must have some kind of amnesia. Buffy: I don't know what that is, but I'm certain I don't have it. I bathe quite often. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/fbf71a8f/attachment.bin From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 06:34:45 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:34:45 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040218063445.7c9ba748.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 05:28:43 -0500 Ray wrote: > I don't think there is a way to just reply to the list without > manually messing with the Cc: and To: headers, and that's just too > much of a hassle to do for every reply. > Well I guess the choice is you can at least try not to hassle everyone else on the list or not. marc From dan Wed Feb 18 06:43:29 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:43:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: References: <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> Message-ID: <40330991.9279.425648B8@localhost> On 18 Feb 2004 at 0:15, G. Rosamond wrote: > ->Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads > ->from somewhere? And some bad examples too. > > let's not pick on anyone. . .i think the general guidelines should be > instructive enough. By all means, don't pick on anyone. Examples are good to have. "Somewhere" meaning pick an archive, not necessarily our archive.... > be nice daniel. I'm usually nice. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From dan Wed Feb 18 06:52:00 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:52:00 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> On 18 Feb 2004 at 1:50, Marc Spitzer wrote: > One last bit, if you reply to the list please do not CC > the people on the list individually. Getting multiple > copies of the same message is annoying. CC'ing the originator has benefits. Sometime the list is lagged. A conversation consisting of several messages can be completed by the time the second post arrives. FWIW, I filter messages with the SENDER field set into another folder (i.e the NYCBUG folder). Messages left in the main folder were sent directly to me. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 07:00:23 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:00:23 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> Message-ID: <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 06:52:00 -0500 Dan Langille wrote: > > CC'ing the originator has benefits. Sometime the list is lagged. A > conversation consisting of several messages can be completed by the > time the second post arrives. Well a nntp server would fix that, but that is a whole separate discussion > > FWIW, I filter messages with the SENDER field set into another folder > (i.e the NYCBUG folder). Messages left in the main folder were sent > directly to me. I already filter by the list id header, but most of the things I get via extra copies belong on the list. But to make sure I need to read the headers to see what is going on. Its a needless annoyance. marc From dan Wed Feb 18 07:33:17 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:33:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I already filter by the list id header, but most of the things > I get via extra copies belong on the list. But to make sure I need > to read the headers to see what is going on. Its a needless annoyance. FWIW, it's common, if not recommended, practice on many lists. From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 07:38:33 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:38:33 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:33:17 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > I already filter by the list id header, but most of the things > > I get via extra copies belong on the list. But to make sure I need > > to read the headers to see what is going on. Its a needless > > annoyance. > > FWIW, it's common, if not recommended, practice on many lists. still annoying, just a work around for broken technology. And that is putting it in the best light possible marc From dan Wed Feb 18 07:52:23 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:52:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:33:17 -0500 (EST) > Dan Langille wrote: > > > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > > > I already filter by the list id header, but most of the things > > > I get via extra copies belong on the list. But to make sure I need > > > to read the headers to see what is going on. Its a needless > > > annoyance. > > > > FWIW, it's common, if not recommended, practice on many lists. > > still annoying, just a work around for broken technology. > And that is putting it in the best light possible What broken technology? From klimenta Wed Feb 18 08:34:14 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:34:14 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdvault post. . . References: Message-ID: <011401c3f627$5fbec0c0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> > finally. . . > http://www.bsdvault.net/article.php?sid=786&mode=thread&order=0 > so i guess it only takes a month to get our announcements up here. . . I remember posting that a couple a days before LinuxExpo. From klimenta Wed Feb 18 09:02:13 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:02:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net><40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost><20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net><20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org><20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> I screwed up my /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC kernel file. Can someone send it to me? Thanks From george Wed Feb 18 09:03:44 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:03:44 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdvault post. . . In-Reply-To: <011401c3f627$5fbec0c0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Kliment Andreev ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:34 AM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] bsdvault post. . . -> -> ->> finally. . . ->> http://www.bsdvault.net/article.php?sid=786&mode=thread&order=0 ->> so i guess it only takes a month to get our announcements ->up here. . . -> ->I remember posting that a couple a days before LinuxExpo. i know. . .that's not the only one with a serious delay factor. it's a bit frustrating. . .our launching and existence is a real event for the bsd community, IMHO. we're looking to play a role in getting less experienced bsd people to be active and involved. it seems like they would benefit. g From george Wed Feb 18 09:05:45 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:05:45 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: ->> 3. and on a more general NYCbug (yes, nice) level, RTFM ->(read the f'g ->> manual) is an inappropriate response to anyone. this list ->is open to ->> all, and part of nycbug's goal is to provide a bridge to newer *BSD ->> users. if something is obvious to a responder who has some ->decades of ->> bsd experience, then please provide a link to online ->documentation to ->> help enlighten the poster. -> ->Well it the 'friendly' manual after all. And I think that ->rtfm is proper when it will fix the problem. I personally do ->this with a man page, ie man ifconfig or man man to get ->people started. I have found that this helps people become ->competent much quicker because they are learning how to ->interact with the system in a productive manner so as new ->problems come up they have a procedure in place to solve them ->instead of continually asking for help and when they do need ->to ask for help they ask better questions. This gives them ->better and faster answers so everybody wins. i strongly disagree. . .man man is no different than saying RTFM. if we want nycbug to be a bridge, we can't charge a toll. ->Admittedly there are people who do not want to do this, clients is a ->good word for them. This is not meant as an insult just a statement ->of fact. They do not want to deal with this but need it done ->so they pay someone to do it for them. -> ->marc that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one should panic about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. g From dan Wed Feb 18 09:06:02 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:06:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 In-Reply-To: <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net><40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost><20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net><20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org><20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> Message-ID: <20040218090442.U3549@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Kliment Andreev wrote: > I screwed up my /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC kernel file. > > Can someone send it to me? You forgot to say please. ;) Get it yourself: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ From dan Wed Feb 18 09:09:55 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:09:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040218090636.P3549@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one should panic > about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. Labelling a question as stupid says more about the labeller than it does the question. We must not forget what it was like to not know what we know. Each of us was a newbie. Lest anyone get their toes in a twist, I am not pointing anyone out (indeed, I don't know of anyone I could point out in this regard). I am just responding to George's reference to stupid questions. From george Wed Feb 18 09:09:46 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:09:46 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218011926.38af277d.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:13:48 -0500 ->"G. Rosamond" wrote: -> ->> i may be working out a deal with a local computer store to provide ->> wireless access in our neighborhood. ->> ->> we'll setup two access points, and look to restrict access by mac ->> address (yeah, yeah, i know it's spoofable). ->> ->> while i have truly fallen in love with the apple airport ->(wpa with or ->> without radius, closed networks, so easy to configure yet so ->> sophisticated), i may just look to use bsd access points. ->i've read ->> through enough of the documentation and don't believe it ->would be too ->> monumental a task. . . -> ->have you considdered buying a bridge(seperate device) for ->each point and connecting them to the computer via ethernet? -> ->they have some advantages: -> ->1: ethernet is simpler to deal with then wifi. ->2: they generally put out more power then wifi cards. ->3: support becomes a lot simpler ->4: easier to move around i'm actually visioning a set of pringles cans around the neighborhood, inconspicuously sitting on fences, etc. the bridge will be fine for each main ap to boost wifi signal, but i may need more. . .have to do some testing first. ->I do not think there is a big cost difference between card ->and bridge. -> ->marc -> ->ps this is my second reply to this post, if I do not see the ->first reply in the morning I will repost. -> ->marc i received your first post at 12:43 am. . . strange. anyone else having an issue? g From george Wed Feb 18 09:14:04 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:14:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port with no direction to open. Help!!! In-Reply-To: <40330991.9279.425648B8@localhost> Message-ID: ->On 18 Feb 2004 at 0:15, G. Rosamond wrote: -> ->> ->Examples help. Anyone care to dig out a few good example threads ->> ->from somewhere? And some bad examples too. ->> ->> let's not pick on anyone. . .i think the general guidelines ->should be ->> instructive enough. -> ->By all means, don't pick on anyone. Examples are good to have. ->"Somewhere" meaning pick an archive, not necessarily our archive.... got it. . . ->> be nice daniel. -> ->I'm usually nice. agree. . .i could probably forward some mail from clients which are great examples. . . g From george Wed Feb 18 09:14:44 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:14:44 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218090636.P3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: Dan Langille [mailto:dan at langille.org] ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:10 AM ->To: G. Rosamond ->Cc: 'Marc Spitzer'; talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . -> -> ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: -> ->> that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one ->should panic ->> about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. -> ->Labelling a question as stupid says more about the labeller ->than it does the question. We must not forget what it was ->like to not know what we know. Each of us was a newbie. -> ->Lest anyone get their toes in a twist, I am not pointing ->anyone out (indeed, I don't know of anyone I could point out ->in this regard). I am just responding to George's reference ->to stupid questions. that was in quotes. . .no such thing as stupid questions on this list. seems like we're all on the same wavelength, for the most part. g From scottro Wed Feb 18 09:20:49 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:20:49 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040218142049.GA864@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:05:45AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > ->> 3. and on a more general NYCbug (yes, nice) level, RTFM > ->(read the f'g > ->> manual) is an inappropriate response to anyone. this list > ->is open to > ->> all, and part of nycbug's goal is to provide a bridge to newer *BSD > ->> users. if something is obvious to a responder who has some > ->decades of > ->> bsd experience, then please provide a link to online > ->documentation to > ->> help enlighten the poster. > -> > ->I have found that this helps people become > ->competent much quicker because they are learning how to > ->interact with the system in a productive manner so as new > ->problems come up they have a procedure in place to solve them > ->instead of continually asking for help and when they do need > ->to ask for help they ask better questions. This gives them > ->better and faster answers so everybody wins. > > i strongly disagree. . .man man is no different than saying RTFM. if we > want nycbug to be a bridge, we can't charge a toll. > > that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one should panic > about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. I think that it's reasonable to say to someone, try man and if you can't really understand, don't panic, just come back and ask. #freebsd on undernet.org can be a harsh channel, but I've never yet seen someone castigated if they say, I looked at the man page but don't understand this part. -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: This one? Buffy: Amethyst. Giles: Used for? Buffy: Breath mints? Giles: Charm bags, money spells and for cleansing one's aura. Buffy: Okay, so how do you know if one's aura's dirty? Somebody comes by with a finger and writes 'wash me' on it? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/f60a222e/attachment.bin From pete Wed Feb 18 09:31:01 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:31:01 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40337725.80708@nomadlogic.org> >1. i haven't yet setup a bsd box as an access point. are there any >useful apps to restrict by mac? i have played for a long while with >bsd-airtools, configured a few different wireless cards on bsd, but >that's the extent of my wireless bsd experience. > > i'm not sure if you can restrict by MAC addr. but this is a "fun" app for wireless authentication: http://nocat.net/ it's called NoCatAuth, it might be in the ports collection too, havn't checked. -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Wed Feb 18 09:32:49 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:32:49 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: <40337725.80708@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: ->i'm not sure if you can restrict by MAC addr. but this is a "fun" app ->for wireless authentication: -> ->http://nocat.net/ -> ->it's called NoCatAuth, it might be in the ports collection ->too, havn't ->checked. -> -> ->-pete brilliant site peter. . thanks. ..i'm going to start hacking at that app asap. g From klimenta Wed Feb 18 09:52:26 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:52:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net><40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost><20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net><20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org><20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218090442.U3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <003601c3f62f$00b5b4f0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> > Get it yourself: > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ Thanks...What a nice feature... From jschauma Wed Feb 18 10:11:24 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:11:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218012030.GA15670@netmeister.org> <4032AE1E.3646.40F1073C@localhost> <20040218004159.52708a76.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218015004.276d9082.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218102843.GA4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040218151124.GC1678@netmeister.org> Ray wrote: > I don't think there is a way to just reply to the list without > manually messing with the Cc: and To: headers, and that's just too > much of a hassle to do for every reply. Depends on your MUA. Many MUAs honor the Mail-Followup-To header. -Jan -- DON'T PANIC! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/496fdf2a/attachment.bin From jschauma Wed Feb 18 10:13:22 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:13:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 In-Reply-To: <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> References: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> <015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> Message-ID: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> Kliment Andreev wrote: > > I screwed up my /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/GENERIC kernel file. While we're bitching about quoting style etc... ;-) If you start a new thread, *do* start a new thread (ie a new message) and don't just send a reply to any old message. Many people use a threaded display for mailing lists, and now this message is integrated into the other thread, with which it doesn't have anything to do. -Jan -- As we all know, reality is a mess. Larry Wall -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/d7dc3839/attachment.bin From klimenta Wed Feb 18 10:29:43 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:29:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 References: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org><015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> >While we're bitching about quoting style etc... ;-) >If you start a new thread, *do* start a new thread (ie a new message) >and don't just send a reply to any old message. Many people use a >threaded display for mailing lists, and now this message is integrated >into the other thread, with which it doesn't have anything to do. I replied to an existing message, but changed the subject. Isn't that enough? Probably not with mutt. My apologies. :) BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) From dan Wed Feb 18 10:34:27 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:34:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 In-Reply-To: <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> References: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org><015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> Message-ID: <20040218103151.D3549@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Kliment Andreev wrote: > >While we're bitching about quoting style etc... ;-) > >If you start a new thread, *do* start a new thread (ie a new message) > >and don't just send a reply to any old message. Many people use a > >threaded display for mailing lists, and now this message is integrated > >into the other thread, with which it doesn't have anything to do. > > I replied to an existing message, but changed the subject. Isn't that > enough? Probably not with mutt. My apologies. :) No, it's not. Mail headers include references such as the message you are replying to. That is is used for mail archiving and for threading messages in mail clients. > BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, > put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) Many clients, including what I'm using, Pine, have an option to quote when replying. From klimenta Wed Feb 18 10:51:43 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:51:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0 References: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org><015b01c3f627$d1316aa0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218103151.D3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <00af01c3f637$1c660cb0$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> > Many clients, including what I'm using, Pine, have an option to quote when > replying. I've noticed that messages created with mutt and read in Lookout Express are empty and actual text is an attachment *.TXT file. There is also a *.DAT file in attachment. From jschauma Wed Feb 18 12:10:58 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:10:58 -0500 Subject: still netiquette (was: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0) In-Reply-To: <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> Message-ID: <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> Kliment Andreev wrote: > >While we're bitching about quoting style etc... ;-) > >If you start a new thread, *do* start a new thread (ie a new message) > >and don't just send a reply to any old message. Many people use a > >threaded display for mailing lists, and now this message is integrated > >into the other thread, with which it doesn't have anything to do. > > I replied to an existing message, but changed the subject. Isn't that > enough? Probably not with mutt. My apologies. :) Well, if you leave the 'In-Reply-To' header in the message, then any client that threads messages will sort the message according to that header. During a cause of a discussion it is not uncommon for the subject to change, but still remain one thread. By convention, such topic changes are usually introduced by a 'Subject: new subject (was: old subject)' header. The next person following up would then leave out the '(was: old subject)' part. > BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, > put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) Wow. I had no idea that Outlook was *that* busted. (Non-list emails sent using outlook end up in a specific junk folder.) I sure would change my MUA if I were you. :) -Jan -- Probability factor of one to one. We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own lookout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/3ec88d2c/attachment.bin From okan Wed Feb 18 12:11:20 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:11:20 -0500 Subject: still netiquette (was: [nycbug-talk] GENERIC 5.2-RELEASE #0) In-Reply-To: <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:10 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: > > BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, > > put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) > > Wow. I had no idea that Outlook was *that* busted. (Non-list emails > sent using outlook end up in a specific junk folder.) I sure would > change my MUA if I were you. :) not saying the OE is not broken in some respects, but there is also the issue of the sending side's mua mime configuration. okan From jschauma Wed Feb 18 12:40:47 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:40:47 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: still netiquette In-Reply-To: <20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> <20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <20040218174047.GC1806@netmeister.org> Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:10 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: > > > BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, > > > put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) > > > > Wow. I had no idea that Outlook was *that* busted. (Non-list emails > > sent using outlook end up in a specific junk folder.) I sure would > > change my MUA if I were you. :) > > not saying the OE is not broken in some respects, but there is also the > issue of the sending side's mua mime configuration. Looking around for five minutes leads me to conclude that: - mutt handles gpg in a manner compliant with RFC 2015 - Outlook does NOT handle gpg/mime attachments in a manner compliant with RFC2015 I'm still surprised by the large number of Outlook users in presumably predominantly geek mailinst lists. -Jan -- I always said there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/817098d6/attachment.bin From chun_lam Wed Feb 18 12:43:55 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:43:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port 110 In-Reply-To: <20040218111043.1266AA876D@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <000a01c3f646$c78f3260$0400000a@java2> Sorry all: Didn't think hitting reply will cause that much damage. OS: FreeBSD 4.9 now just installed Right after install. I checked port 110 by "telnet localhost 110" the following message appear just like FreeBSD 5.0 Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host but on port 25 I get this... Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. 220 smtp.software-authors.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.9p2/8.12.9; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:45:34 -0500 (EST) quit 221 2.0.0 smtp.software-authors.com closing connection Connection closed by foreign host. I cannot figure this out. Can someone who get FreeBSD 4.9 and up and port 110 working send me an installation steps that they use? Matthew From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 12:51:29 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:51:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: netiqutte, was closed port In-Reply-To: <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040218004850.14d5b460.mspitze1@optonline.net> <40330B90.26737.425E13D1@localhost> <20040218070023.531a1626.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218073136.X3549@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040218073833.3ca6ae69.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040218075151.A3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040218125129.60f1d321.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:52:23 -0500 (EST) Dan Langille wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 07:33:17 -0500 (EST) > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > > > > > I already filter by the list id header, but most of the things > > > > I get via extra copies belong on the list. But to make sure I > > > > need to read the headers to see what is going on. Its a > > > > needless annoyance. > > > > > > FWIW, it's common, if not recommended, practice on many lists. > > > > still annoying, just a work around for broken technology. > > And that is putting it in the best light possible > > What broken technology? mailing lists marc From jschauma Wed Feb 18 12:55:47 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:55:47 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port 110 In-Reply-To: <000a01c3f646$c78f3260$0400000a@java2> References: <20040218111043.1266AA876D@virtu.nyphp.org> <000a01c3f646$c78f3260$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <20040218175547.GD1806@netmeister.org> Matthew Lam wrote: > OS: FreeBSD 4.9 now just installed > > Right after install. I checked port 110 by "telnet localhost 110" the > following message appear just like FreeBSD 5.0 > > Trying 127.0.0.1... > telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host Ok, so we've established that there are no services listening on port 110 on your machine. I would say that's a pretty good thing, as I would be pretty upset if a machine, out of the box, had a number of ports open. You need to figure out if you have any pop3 daemons installed on your system. I don't know if FreeBSD comes with any out of the box or if you need to install them from ports. *If* you have a pop3 daemon installed, then you should check /etc/inetd.conf to see if you have a line that tells it to start that daemon. If that line is commented out, uncomment it and restart inetd. If there is no such line, add it and restart inetd. If you do *not* have a pop3 daemon installed, go and install one. Then add the relevant line to /etc/inetd.conf and restart inetd. Either way: read the documentation for whatever pop3 daemon you install or use. This is pretty independent of whatever unix-like OS you're using. Things you want to read: inetd(8), (8) -Jan -- Life," said Marvin, "don't talk to me about life." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/bca1efbd/attachment.bin From chun_lam Wed Feb 18 12:55:38 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port 110 Message-ID: <000f01c3f648$6aaebaa0$0400000a@java2> Thanks Jan. Will do that. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040218/71f089d1/attachment.html From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 13:17:59 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:17:59 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port 110 In-Reply-To: <000a01c3f646$c78f3260$0400000a@java2> References: <20040218111043.1266AA876D@virtu.nyphp.org> <000a01c3f646$c78f3260$0400000a@java2> Message-ID: <20040218131759.14f56996.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:43:55 -0500 Matthew Lam wrote: > Sorry all: > Didn't think hitting reply will cause that much damage. > > OS: FreeBSD 4.9 now just installed > > Right after install. I checked port 110 by "telnet localhost 110" > the following message appear just like FreeBSD 5.0 > > Trying 127.0.0.1... > telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused > telnet: Unable to connect to remote host > > but on port 25 I get this... > > Trying 127.0.0.1... > Connected to localhost. > Escape character is '^]'. > 220 smtp.software-authors.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.12.9p2/8.12.9; Wed, 18 > Feb 2004 12:45:34 -0500 (EST) > quit > 221 2.0.0 smtp.software-authors.com closing connection > Connection closed by foreign host. > > I cannot figure this out. > > Can someone who get FreeBSD 4.9 and up and port 110 working send me an > installation steps that they use? goto /usr/ports/mail/qpopper and type "make all install clean" and you will have installed a pop deamon unless you get an error message, if there is an error please post it, and reboot( type 'init 6' as root). Before reboot do the following: *********************************************************************** ***** To enable the qpopper-daemon, add the following line to your /etc/inetd.conf: pop3 stream tcp nowait root /usr/local/libexec/qpopper qpopper -s *********************************************************************** ***** The simple answere is freebsd does not come with pop or imap access installed in the base system but it does come with smtp in the base system. more details can be had in the docs: man qpopper and xpdf /usr/local/share/qpoper/GUIDE.pdf marc From okan Wed Feb 18 13:43:32 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 13:43:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: still netiquette In-Reply-To: <20040218174047.GC1806@netmeister.org> References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> <20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> <20040218174047.GC1806@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040218184354.GU11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:40 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: > Okan Demirmen wrote: > > On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:10 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: > > > > BTW, replying to your mutt message means "open an attachment, copy & paste, > > > > put ">" in front of every row and hit reply". :) > > > > > > Wow. I had no idea that Outlook was *that* busted. (Non-list emails > > > sent using outlook end up in a specific junk folder.) I sure would > > > change my MUA if I were you. :) > > > > not saying the OE is not broken in some respects, but there is also the > > issue of the sending side's mua mime configuration. > > Looking around for five minutes leads me to conclude that: > - mutt handles gpg in a manner compliant with RFC 2015 > - Outlook does NOT handle gpg/mime attachments in a manner compliant > with RFC2015 yes, i've had to modify my mutt settings depending on who i'm sending stuff to...a real pain to keep track, so i just found the lowest common broken denominator, OE, and made everything that way. > I'm still surprised by the large number of Outlook users in presumably > predominantly geek mailinst lists. me too. but everyone and their dog gives me a reason why; i have just given up caring - unless, that is, if they send me crap in tnef, which busts my bubble, but this is way off topic..... okan From mspitze1 Wed Feb 18 14:06:41 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:06:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: <20040218090636.P3549@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040218140641.66083321.mspitze1@optonline.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:14:44 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > > ->-----Original Message----- > ->From: Dan Langille [mailto:dan at langille.org] > ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:10 AM > ->To: G. Rosamond > ->Cc: 'Marc Spitzer'; talk at lists.nycbug.org > ->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . > -> > -> > ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > -> > ->> that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one > ->should panic > ->> about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. > -> > ->Labelling a question as stupid says more about the labeller > ->than it does the question. We must not forget what it was > ->like to not know what we know. Each of us was a newbie. > -> > ->Lest anyone get their toes in a twist, I am not pointing > ->anyone out (indeed, I don't know of anyone I could point out > ->in this regard). I am just responding to George's reference > ->to stupid questions. > > that was in quotes. . .no such thing as stupid questions on this list. > > seems like we're all on the same wavelength, for the most part. > > g > Stupid is not what sets me off, lazy is what sets me off. If someone wants to do something and they get pointed to the docs but does not read and still asks for the same answer then I start getting irritated. marc From George Wed Feb 18 15:54:57 2004 From: George (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:54:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: still netiquette {to ibook for sale?} In-Reply-To: <20040218184354.GU11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org> <008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01> <20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org> <20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> <20040218174047.GC1806@netmeister.org> <20040218184354.GU11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <10860.68.167.77.98.1077137697.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> A wise person once said. . . Okan Demirmen > On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:40 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: >> I'm still surprised by the large number of Outlook users in presumably >> predominantly geek mailinst lists. > > me too. but everyone and their dog gives me a reason why; i have > just given up caring - unless, that is, if they send me crap in > tnef, which busts my bubble, but this is way off topic..... > > okan call them excuses, but i know that many people are at work, and don't necessarily have control of their os. in my case, quickbooks will keep my primary desktop w32 for a while to come. . .it's what my business runs off of. and i've heard very mixed things about small business accounting packages for the mac, including their port of quickbooks. additionally, most of my clients are predominantly w32-based, and complete interoperability with them is critical. despite that i am buying an ibook in the short term. . . so, to change the topic. . . anyone have a g4 ibook they want to hawk to me? g From jesse Wed Feb 18 18:24:41 2004 From: jesse (jc) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:24:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: still netiquette {to ibook for sale?} References: <20040218151322.GD1678@netmeister.org><008701c3f634$09768380$f2234a0a@USWD275PG01><20040218171058.GB1806@netmeister.org><20040218171142.GQ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org><20040218174047.GC1806@netmeister.org><20040218184354.GU11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> <10860.68.167.77.98.1077137697.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> Message-ID: <00f201c3f676$62b44120$69fea8c0@noc2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "G. Rosamond" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Re: still netiquette {to ibook for sale?} > > A wise person once said. . . Okan Demirmen > > On Wed 2004.02.18 at 12:40 -0500, Jan Schaumann wrote: > > >> I'm still surprised by the large number of Outlook users in presumably > >> predominantly geek mailinst lists. > > > > me too. but everyone and their dog gives me a reason why; i have > > just given up caring - unless, that is, if they send me crap in > > tnef, which busts my bubble, but this is way off topic..... > > > > okan > > call them excuses, but i know that many people are at work, and don't > necessarily have control of their os. in my case, quickbooks will keep my > primary desktop w32 for a while to come. . .it's what my business runs off > of. and i've heard very mixed things about small business accounting > packages for the mac, including their port of quickbooks. additionally, > most of my clients are predominantly w32-based, and complete > interoperability with them is critical. > despite that i am buying an ibook in the short term. . . > > so, to change the topic. . . > > anyone have a g4 ibook they want to hawk to me? > > g > Outlook it is... and I too am very interested in a used ibook. Can't wait to get OfficeX running... no I'm kidding. I just want something for my 1.5 hr train ride every day .... and every night. From george Wed Feb 18 18:35:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:35:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218140641.66083321.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Marc Spitzer ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:07 PM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . -> -> ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:14:44 -0500 ->"G. Rosamond" wrote: -> ->> ->> ->> ->-----Original Message----- ->> ->From: Dan Langille [mailto:dan at langille.org] ->> ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:10 AM ->> ->To: G. Rosamond ->> ->Cc: 'Marc Spitzer'; talk at lists.nycbug.org ->> ->Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . ->> -> ->> -> ->> ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: ->> -> ->> ->> that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one ->> ->should panic ->> ->> about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. ->> -> ->> ->Labelling a question as stupid says more about the labeller ->> ->than it does the question. We must not forget what it was ->> ->like to not know what we know. Each of us was a newbie. ->> -> ->> ->Lest anyone get their toes in a twist, I am not pointing ->> ->anyone out (indeed, I don't know of anyone I could point out ->> ->in this regard). I am just responding to George's reference ->> ->to stupid questions. ->> ->> that was in quotes. . .no such thing as stupid questions on ->this list. ->> ->> seems like we're all on the same wavelength, for the most part. ->> ->> g ->> -> ->Stupid is not what sets me off, lazy is what sets me off. If ->someone wants to do something and they get pointed to the ->docs but does not read -> ->and still asks for the same answer then I start getting irritated. -> ->marc providing a link is telling someone where to find the answer. not what the answer is. i think there's an issue with this to be honest. not clear on your line between stupid and lazy. sounds pretty condescending to me. i like to think that this group could congeal into something that bridges the gap between the newer but eager and the experienced but not withdrawn. i know trish thinks otherwise on this later point. . . while the bsd resources, freebsd handbook, netbsd faq and openbsd how-to, are awesome, it's not uncommon for people to not understand even what exactly they are looking for. the important thing often isn't the answer, it's the question and how to phrase it. if you're isolated from other bsd users physically, and i'm including the internet 'world' which doesn't make up for it, you don't have the normal human interaction that puts so much of the picture together. one of the goals of nycbug is to not only educate newer bsd people, but to give them a common language and framework with which to understand problem-solving with bsd issues. we're not talking about what a mouse is or where to put the cd. i don't believe the bsd world attracts those types, and couldn't if it wanted to. providing a link provides a lot in that direction. and also the meetings, including the sometimes drunken discussions after them. g From george Wed Feb 18 18:38:25 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:25 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: <00f201c3f676$62b44120$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: ->> anyone have a g4 ibook they want to hawk to me? ->> ->> g ->> -> -> Outlook it is... and I too am very interested in a used ->ibook. Can't wait to get OfficeX running... no I'm kidding. I ->just want something for my 1.5 hr train ride every day .... ->and every night. btw, i spent some time at tekserve this afternoon. . . i didn't realize the mach kernel on an ibook is only 3.5 meg. pretty impressive, i think. don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i purchase new, recommendations. i realize the ppc world is very different than that of intel. so how concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? i've seen comparisons to the p iv, p iii, etc, and they seem good. what about ram? g From lists Wed Feb 18 19:24:22 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:24:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: References: <00f201c3f676$62b44120$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: <20040218192422.20d72306.lists@genoverly.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:25 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i > purchase new, recommendations. > > i realize the ppc world is very different than that of intel. so how > concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? i've seen comparisons to > the p iv, p iii, etc, and they seem good. what about ram? > I'm curious too. I looked into a new ibook a few weeks back. Yes, it looks vvveeerrryyyy cool, but, that price tag seems high. Start with a base 12'' and add some memory, a little more drive, AirPort Extreme Card (who could resist that name), an extra battery and BAM !! you are over $1,500. Dunno, maybe I don't fully comprehend the market now-a-days or I'm just a cheapskate. Another thing that has kept me away: In the [free/open]* world that we've chosen to compute in, it seems contradictory to lock into a single vendor for hardware. What if you need a part... your choices are limited (back to the OEM). However, USB and Firewire help alot for external devices. No one can argue; they are great machines and look very nice. Prudence will steer me elsewhere. Michael *No religious offense intended by the choice of words -- --- From george Wed Feb 18 19:58:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:58:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218192422.20d72306.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of michael ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:24 PM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . -> -> ->On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:25 -0500 ->"G. Rosamond" wrote: -> ->> ->> don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i ->> purchase new, recommendations. ->> ->> i realize the ppc world is very different than that of ->intel. so how ->> concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? i've seen ->comparisons to ->> the p iv, p iii, etc, and they seem good. what about ram? ->> -> ->I'm curious too. I looked into a new ibook a few weeks back. ->Yes, it looks vvveeerrryyyy cool, but, that price tag seems ->high. Start with a base 12'' and add some memory, a little ->more drive, AirPort Extreme Card (who could resist that ->name), an extra battery and BAM !! you are over $1,500. ->Dunno, maybe I don't fully comprehend the market now-a-days ->or I'm just a cheapskate. $1500 isn't as bad as it looked to me today. $1200 for base of 12", $99 airport card, $100 for upgrade to 640 meg, $200 for applecare. . .that's $1600. blah. i think i'm going to hang out by ivy league colleges with a stocking on my head. ->Another thing that has kept me away: In the [free/open]* ->world that we've chosen to compute in, it seems contradictory ->to lock into a single vendor for hardware. What if you need ->a part... your choices are limited (back to the OEM). ->However, USB and Firewire help alot for external devices. -> ->No one can argue; they are great machines and look very nice. -> Prudence will steer me elsewhere. -> ->Michael -> ->*No religious offense intended by the choice of words i'm going to have to talk to my priest about that. . . g -> ->-- ->--- ->_______________________________________________ ->talk mailing list ->talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -> From scottro Wed Feb 18 20:09:47 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:09:47 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: <20040218192422.20d72306.lists@genoverly.net> References: <00f201c3f676$62b44120$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040218192422.20d72306.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: <20040219010947.GA5753@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 07:24:22PM -0500, michael wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:38:25 -0500 > "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm curious too. I looked into a new ibook a few weeks back. Yes, it > looks vvveeerrryyyy cool, but, that price tag seems high. Start with > a base 12'' and add some memory, a little more drive, AirPort Extreme > Card (who could resist that name), an extra battery and BAM !! you are > over $1,500. Dunno, maybe I don't fully comprehend the market > now-a-days or I'm just a cheapskate. The general consensus ~seems~ to be that it's about the equivalent of multiplying the processor by 1.25 or so, so an 800 should be about the equivalent of a 1 gig Pentium. (More or less). My impression of the one that my wife has is (850 and 352 megs of RAM or something like that) is that it's about the same as a mid range Toshiba Celeron 1 gig with 512 megs of RAM. (VERY subjective) Since upgrading to OS X.2 the cheap Epson USB printer doesn't work. Sigh. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: So, we Bronzin' it tonight? Willow: Wednesdays, kinda beat... Xander: Well, we could grind our enemies into talcum powder with a sledgehammer, but, gosh, we did that last night. From ray Wed Feb 18 23:48:50 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:48:50 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Close port -> netiquitte -> GENERIC -> ibooks Message-ID: <20040219044850.GC4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Okay, _this_thread_ was an example of what one should not do. Being side-tracked three times is really too much. Start a new thread already. From ray Wed Feb 18 23:52:56 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:52:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:05:45AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one should panic > about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. People should also learn to do research on their own. OpenBSD's reputed harshness has its educational value too. =) From ray Wed Feb 18 23:57:58 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:57:58 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: References: <20040218011926.38af277d.mspitze1@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040219045758.GE4807@cybertron.cyth.net> On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:09:46AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > ->ps this is my second reply to this post, if I do not see the > ->first reply in the morning I will repost. > -> > ->marc > > i received your first post at 12:43 am. . . > > strange. > > anyone else having an issue? I'm not sure if I'm experiencing what marc was experiencing, but posts are periodically delayed. Sometimes they post immediately, but othertimes they take a long time to appear. Is the server overloaded? -Ray- From ray Thu Feb 19 07:02:18 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:02:18 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040219120218.GG4807@cybertron.cyth.net> On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:55:48AM -0500, Ray wrote: > > I'm personally surprised that more people don't use silc. > > As am I, though the major reason is probably a lack of applications. It turns out that there already exists an easy-to-use SILC client: . Netiquette tip: google before posting. From pete Thu Feb 19 09:19:40 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:19:40 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4034C5FC.6060903@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: > >don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i >purchase new, recommendations. > > i'd either go with the 12" powerbook or the G4 ibook...prolly the iBook at the end of the day tho b/c of price reasons... >i realize the ppc world is very different than that of intel. so how >concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? i've seen comparisons to >the p iv, p iii, etc, and they seem good. what about ram? > > i don't think you can really compare the PPC chips to the i386 type chips head to head. you gotta really think about the type of work you are doing etc...one thing that i really like about the newer PPC's that apple uses is the altavec chip support. there are some really nice extensions in there that help with heavy graphics work. if you are planning on running OSX, i can personally state that OS 10.3 is a very very nice OS, and runs great on older G3 desktop machines upto G5's, and it obviously fully supports the altivec extensions. I run gnu/linux on a G3 tower at work and run's very well. this is the main reason why i can't compare a i386 to a PPC chip, for a box that's clocked at 350mhz it seems to run much quicker than say a 800mhz i386....maybe that just me. on a final note of this long rambling email, one thing i've noticed w/ all mac laptops is that next to Thinkpads, they are the most solid and reliable laptops i've seen. so that's my case for apple ;^) -pete >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Thu Feb 19 11:55:43 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:55:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: <20040219045758.GE4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: Ray [mailto:ray at cyth.net] ->Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:58 PM ->To: G. Rosamond ->Cc: 'Marc Spitzer'; talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . ->On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:09:46AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: ->> ->ps this is my second reply to this post, if I do not see the ->> ->first reply in the morning I will repost. ->> -> ->> ->marc ->> ->> i received your first post at 12:43 am. . . ->> ->> strange. ->> ->> anyone else having an issue? -> ->I'm not sure if I'm experiencing what marc was experiencing, ->but posts are periodically delayed. Sometimes they post ->immediately, but othertimes they take a long time to appear. ->Is the server overloaded? -> ->-Ray- what's going on with this box fence-post maker? From ike Thu Feb 19 13:50:17 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:17 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> On Feb 18, 2004, at 12:13 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > 2. more generally, what are the issues with the isp's and reselling > their bandwidth. has anyone dealt with this type of thing? I don't personally know anyone who's done this dealio, but Speakeasy has a wifi reseller package available: http://www.speakeasy.net/netshare/learnmore/ rocket- .ike From george Thu Feb 19 14:47:12 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:47:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Apple at BSD user group? Message-ID: see below email from apple sales rep. -----Original Message----- From: Leslie M. Schwartz [mailto:leslies at apple.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:43 PM To: G. Rosamond Cc: Edward Eigerman; Patrick Dennard Subject: Apple at BSD user group? Hey George, We have put our collective minds together and come up with a tentative agenda to run by your members. BSD Unix Topics: 1. The History of Darwin 2. The structure of OS X 3. OS X and Unix 4. OS X Server as a platform 5. Xserve/Xserve RAID 6. 2 minute sales pitch The last section would be a short plea to try and get your members to think of us as a hardware platform when making recommendations to their respective organizations, very low key. Let me know what you think! Regards, Leslie Leslie M. Schwartz Apple Computer Sales Animal 917 885 9540 leslies at Apple.com i am curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this. i have had multiple discussions with leslie, and have tried to make clear what the sentiment of nycbug members is, in terms of sales pitches, vendors, etc. i would reinforce that sentiment by saying we would only turn off members with sales pitches (including myself). the general technical level of nycbug members is quite high in my estimation, and have deep work experience, and have dealt with vendors for a long time. it's important to have a good relation with apple, IMHO, and looking at the history of osx would be an excellent meeting topic. maybe we could make this a saturday meeting, and have them bring some hardware for us to play with, as wes has mentioned. thoughts? g -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040219/209387d6/attachment.html From ike Thu Feb 19 14:57:55 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:57:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey all, On Feb 18, 2004, at 6:38 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > i didn't realize the mach kernel on an ibook is only 3.5 meg. pretty > impressive, i think. I'm no kernel hacker, but from years of using macs, Mach is a microkernel- Mach dynamically loads modules, optimal for a PPC, as I've experienced- so the base is quite small indeed. Loading up a straight Darwin box shows this off- it's an extremely minimal unix. > don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i > purchase new, recommendations. My experience, (I'm at my 5th powerbook now), is to buy the best processor you can afford, and it will be about 3 years before it starts feeling slow... The powerbooks, in general, have a ton of refined perks that add up to justify their value, (more video ram for external display support, usually more interface ports etc... [i.e. pci cardbus slot]) - depends on what you think the jump is worth, the iBooks are totally sweet rigs. > i realize the ppc world is very different than that of intel. Only comment I have with regard to ppc and x86, is that I never tend to think of ppc vs. x86 so much as their being totally different beasts altogether: http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/01q2/p4andg4e/p4andg4e-1.html MHZ comparisons are a silly comparison, as context in what is being processed is more important to make things faster, and PPC is extremely well suited to multithreading, important to a gui-based workstation, IMHO. With the G4's, Alti-vec is amazing for any kind of video display, as a server, Apache2 built with MPM is breathtakingly fast, although the actual 'clock speed' is slower. The G5's, again, whole new beast... > so how > concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? It's a great speed- a GHZ or more is screamin' though... > what about ram? I get it at crucial.com for mac stuff, have had good experiences with them for years- I don't care to remember ram speed/parity etc... and their prices are market value. Rocket- .ike From jesse Thu Feb 19 16:36:26 2004 From: jesse (jc) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:36:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isaac Levy" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . > On Feb 18, 2004, at 12:13 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > 2. more generally, what are the issues with the isp's and reselling > > their bandwidth. has anyone dealt with this type of thing? > > I don't personally know anyone who's done this dealio, but Speakeasy > has a wifi reseller package available: > > http://www.speakeasy.net/netshare/learnmore/ > > rocket- > .ike > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > Speakeasy sells T1 and DSL service, and phone, etc. You don't even need the resellers kit or any special contract to resell... I've gone over this with them. They have very little in terms of use restrictions. Speakeasy DSL is via Covad. I'm not sure what the other DSL providers in NY say about reselling. Road Runner and Optonline do not like resellers. Generally anyone who will sell a T will let you do whatever you want with it, except get their IP's blacklisted for spamming. From mspitze1 Thu Feb 19 16:37:07 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:37:07 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Apple at BSD user group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040219163707.738323da@bogomips.optonline.net> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:47:12 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > see below email from apple sales rep. > I would like to learn more about osx so this is good. marc > -----Original Message----- > From: Leslie M. Schwartz [mailto:leslies at apple.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:43 PM > To: G. Rosamond > Cc: Edward Eigerman; Patrick Dennard > Subject: Apple at BSD user group? > > > Hey George, > We have put our collective minds together and come up with a tentative > agenda to run by your members. > > BSD Unix Topics: > > 1. The History of Darwin > 2. The structure of OS X > 3. OS X and Unix > 4. OS X Server as a platform > 5. Xserve/Xserve RAID > 6. 2 minute sales pitch > > The last section would be a short plea to try and get your members to > think of us as a hardware platform when making recommendations to > their respective organizations, very low key. > > Let me know what you think! > Regards, > Leslie > > > > Leslie M. Schwartz > Apple Computer > Sales Animal > 917 885 9540 > > > leslies at Apple.com > > i am curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this. > > i have had multiple discussions with leslie, and have tried to make > clear what the sentiment of nycbug members is, in terms of sales > pitches, vendors, etc. i would reinforce that sentiment by saying we > would only turn off members with sales pitches (including myself). > the general technical level of nycbug members is quite high in my > estimation, and have deep work experience, and have dealt with vendors > for a long time. > > it's important to have a good relation with apple, IMHO, and looking > at the history of osx would be an excellent meeting topic. > > maybe we could make this a saturday meeting, and have them bring some > hardware for us to play with, as wes has mentioned. > > thoughts? > > g > > From mspitze1 Thu Feb 19 16:43:38 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:43:38 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:36:26 -0500 jc wrote: > > Road Runner and Optonline do not like resellers. Cablevision(optonline is the residential isp part) has no problem selling you business class data service, that division is called Lightpath. Both residential and commercial service are priced accordingly and they have different limits on what you can do with the feed. marc From chrislist Thu Feb 19 17:57:46 2004 From: chrislist (Chris McCulloh) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:57:46 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Apple at BSD user group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040219175746.1a2360a7@st0wable> > it's important to have a good relation with apple, IMHO, and looking at > the history of osx would be an excellent meeting topic. > > maybe we could make this a saturday meeting, and have them bring some > hardware for us to play with, as wes has mentioned. Well, I'm an Apple fan personally, have been for ages (even long before pre-OSX days), and am always interested in what they have to say. Surely my opinions don't apply to everybody, but I don't mind putting up with a brief sales pitch if it truly is only 2 minutes, however, I would hope that they could make their presentation a bit more technical. We are already a BSD user's group, after all. I think the suggestion of having them bring tangible products that we could actually tool around on would definitely make the session worthwhile. I think in addition to the history of OSX, I personally would like to know more about Apple's roadmap for the future, and how they feel Apple and the BSD communities can benefit postively from each other. I might even use the word synergy, if I were a marketing type person... but thankfully, I'm not. -chris -- Chris McCulloh Secure Systems Architect Sinetimore, LLC e: cmcculloh at sinetimore.com t: 212.504.0288 f: 212.656.1469 w: http://www.sinetimore.com a: 40 Broad Street, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10004, USA key: http://www.sinetimore.com/chriskey.pub : [ 9508 07E0 9E6C DD05 4419 40FA 4D96 FD82 24CE 0273 ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040219/97e7e7ed/attachment.bin From jonathan Thu Feb 19 18:07:04 2004 From: jonathan (Jonathan Hirschman) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:07:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <40354198.9060602@hirschman.net> One problem with Cablevision's business offerings (BOOL, or Optimum Online for Business) is that they do not support static IP addresses. That may or may not be an issue for some folks - it is for me. This may have changed, however, but I do not have time to try and find out (it took me days to get through to someone at Cablevision just to ask the question). Anyone know? Jonathan Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:36:26 -0500 > jc wrote: > > >>Road Runner and Optonline do not like resellers. > > > Cablevision(optonline is the residential isp part) has no problem > selling you business class data service, that division is called > Lightpath. Both residential and commercial service are priced > accordingly and they have different limits on what you can do with the > feed. > > marc > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > From mspitze1 Thu Feb 19 18:46:56 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:46:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: <40354198.9060602@hirschman.net> References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> <40354198.9060602@hirschman.net> Message-ID: <20040219184656.3f478eb8@bogomips.optonline.net> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:07:04 -0500 Jonathan Hirschman wrote: > One problem with Cablevision's business offerings (BOOL, or Optimum > Online for Business) is that they do not support static IP addresses. > That may or may not be an issue for some folks - it is for me. I said Lightpath not BOOL, Lightpath will sell you a T1 or T3 ... and what you do with it is your business, just check the contract. I think that BOOL is just a cable modem attached to a business account, different type of service. They will also sell you BOOL. I used to work at OOL and managing static ip space on that plant is not a simple problem, routing will quickly get very ugly. And ARIN will look at the percentage of used vs allocated ip space so if you have customers with a contract for 64 static ips that uses 10 ARIN will say reclaim those IPs and when you run out come and talk to me. They also frown on small cidr blocks. You can get 64 /30 blocks( 4 ip with 2 usable for clients) per class C (/24) so you have 128-192 ips wasted per class C for static ips. The list of issues goes on and that is why light path handles it for people who need real server grade connections and they handle BOOL for the low end customers that do not need or want to pay for servers, they need web access and it works fine for that. marc From jonathan Thu Feb 19 19:04:54 2004 From: jonathan (Jonathan Hirschman) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:04:54 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: <20040219184656.3f478eb8@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> <40354198.9060602@hirschman.net> <20040219184656.3f478eb8@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <40354F26.6010409@hirschman.net> That's all great, but I think that the original poster was looking for something a bit more affordable than a T1 or T3 - which is why I figured that you were talking about BOOL. Jonathan Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:07:04 -0500 > Jonathan Hirschman wrote: > > >>One problem with Cablevision's business offerings (BOOL, or Optimum >>Online for Business) is that they do not support static IP addresses. >>That may or may not be an issue for some folks - it is for me. > > > I said Lightpath not BOOL, Lightpath will sell you a T1 or T3 ... and > what you do with it is your business, just check the contract. I think > that BOOL is just a cable modem attached to a business account, > different type of service. They will also sell you BOOL. I used to > work at OOL and managing static ip space on that plant is not a simple > problem, routing will quickly get very ugly. And ARIN will look at the > percentage of used vs allocated ip space so if you have customers with > a contract for 64 static ips that uses 10 ARIN will say reclaim those > IPs > and when you run out come and talk to me. They also frown on small cidr > blocks. You can get 64 /30 blocks( 4 ip with 2 usable for clients) per > class C (/24) so you have 128-192 ips wasted per class C for static ips. > > The list of issues goes on and that is why light path handles it for > people who need real server grade connections and they handle BOOL for > the low end customers that do not need or want to pay for servers, they > need web access and it works fine for that. > > marc > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > From theotherbush Thu Feb 19 19:51:05 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:51:05 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller Message-ID: I provide my customers with RoadRunner here in the Hudson Valley and am paid a commission. If you're having trouble with RoadRunner let me know and I may be able to help. A commercial RoadRunner connection with static IP should be in the $120/month area. I just purchased a T-1 for my hosting (here in the woods where I'm several miles from the CO) for $560/month including local loop. This is a dedicated full T1 from AT&T purchased through their subsidiary ACC. I'm told that if I was in Manhattan I could by the same product for sub $500/month. If anyone needs a contact for ACC feel free to contact me and I'll connect you. Thanks!! Harold _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From mspitze1 Thu Feb 19 20:07:32 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:07:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: <40354F26.6010409@hirschman.net> References: <75E143F5-630C-11D8-B2B4-000A95E009EE@lesmuug.org> <004d01c3f730$6d999b20$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040219164338.478960be@bogomips.optonline.net> <40354198.9060602@hirschman.net> <20040219184656.3f478eb8@bogomips.optonline.net> <40354F26.6010409@hirschman.net> Message-ID: <20040219200732.03877064@bogomips.optonline.net> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:04:54 -0500 Jonathan Hirschman wrote: > That's all great, but I think that the original poster was looking for > something a bit more affordable than a T1 or T3 - which is why I > figured that you were talking about BOOL. > > Jonathan Well you get what you pay for. And will you please stop top posting. marc From theotherbush Thu Feb 19 20:13:33 2004 From: theotherbush (Harold Bush) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:13:33 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Apple at BSD user group? Message-ID: I cast my aye for Apple's agenda. A short sales pitch is not an issue for me. Everyone is pitching something these days even if it is back door ;-) >From: "G. Rosamond" >Reply-To: george at sddi.net >To: >Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Apple at BSD user group? >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:47:12 -0500 > >see below email from apple sales rep. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Leslie M. Schwartz [mailto:leslies at apple.com] >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:43 PM >To: G. Rosamond >Cc: Edward Eigerman; Patrick Dennard >Subject: Apple at BSD user group? > > >Hey George, >We have put our collective minds together and come up with a tentative >agenda to run by your members. > >BSD Unix Topics: > >1. The History of Darwin >2. The structure of OS X >3. OS X and Unix >4. OS X Server as a platform >5. Xserve/Xserve RAID >6. 2 minute sales pitch > >The last section would be a short plea to try and get your members to >think of us as a hardware platform when making recommendations to their >respective organizations, very low key. > >Let me know what you think! >Regards, >Leslie > > > >Leslie M. Schwartz >Apple Computer >Sales Animal >917 885 9540 > > >leslies at Apple.com > >i am curious to hear what people's thoughts are on this. > >i have had multiple discussions with leslie, and have tried to make >clear what the sentiment of nycbug members is, in terms of sales >pitches, vendors, etc. i would reinforce that sentiment by saying we >would only turn off members with sales pitches (including myself). the >general technical level of nycbug members is quite high in my >estimation, and have deep work experience, and have dealt with vendors >for a long time. > >it's important to have a good relation with apple, IMHO, and looking at >the history of osx would be an excellent meeting topic. > >maybe we could make this a saturday meeting, and have them bring some >hardware for us to play with, as wes has mentioned. > >thoughts? > >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From george Fri Feb 20 08:43:09 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:43:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ->-----Original Message----- ->From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org ->[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Harold Bush ->Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:51 PM ->To: talk at lists.nycbug.org ->Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan -> bandwidth reseller -> -> ->I provide my customers with RoadRunner here in the Hudson ->Valley and am paid ->a commission. If you're having trouble with RoadRunner let me ->know and I may ->be able to help. A commercial RoadRunner connection with ->static IP should be ->in the $120/month area. I just purchased a T-1 for my hosting ->(here in the ->woods where I'm several miles from the CO) for $560/month ->including local ->loop. This is a dedicated full T1 from AT&T purchased through their ->subsidiary ACC. I'm told that if I was in Manhattan I could ->by the same ->product for sub $500/month. If anyone needs a contact for ACC ->feel free to ->contact me and I'll connect you. Thanks!! -> ->Harold ACC? woah. ..that's a flashback. dealt with them years ago, when they were just reselling att. used them for a voice t1. g From its Fri Feb 20 09:27:04 2004 From: its (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:27:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] re:Apple at BSD user group? Message-ID: I would love to get to hear Apple's explanation of Darwin. I currently manage OS X servers so I've heard plenty about the GUI features but would love to here then talk about what's under the hood. I agree its important to give Apple some credit for bringing many users (me included) over to BSD. -Brad From george Fri Feb 20 09:49:33 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:49:33 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] apple at nycbug meeting Message-ID: okay. . .this is the deal. . . there's been some useful feedback on the list regarding an apple meeting. once i get the engineer/presenter's email address, we can forward comments to him/her. i spoke to leslie, the local apple sales rep, and we will tentatively plan for the april 7 meeting. the talk outline will be as stated in the earlier email. at some point after that, apple will look to hold a saturday tech preview of their new server hardware at their manhattan location. for instance, this might be from 12-4 pm, with a presentation in the beginning, with two apple techs roaming around as we hack at the servers. this would be separate from our monthly meeting. however, i would need some feedback to get a sense of how many people would attend. comments? g From pete Fri Feb 20 09:58:11 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:58:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] apple at nycbug meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40362083.8080302@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: > >at some point after that, apple will look to hold a saturday tech >preview of their new server hardware at their manhattan location. for >instance, this might be from 12-4 pm, with a presentation in the >beginning, with two apple techs roaming around as we hack at the >servers. > > > this sounds execellent! always been a fan of apple's hardware, so this would be great for me, count me in. -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Fri Feb 20 12:45:30 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:45:30 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . Message-ID: fyi. . .i'm trying to keep our clunky, vi-written site (that will soon be replaced) as updated as possible. http://nycbug.org/futureevents.html having a problem with getting wasabi on the line, even though they agreed to the meeting a few weeks ago. we may have to scramble to replace the march meeting topic. g From gcoon Fri Feb 20 13:58:29 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:58:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc server In-Reply-To: <20040219120218.GG4807@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040208085522.GA27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040211020041.52508.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com> <20040211085548.GF27958@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040219120218.GG4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040220135621.O15296@mail.bsdisp.com> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Ray wrote: > It turns out that there already exists an easy-to-use SILC client: > . Netiquette tip: google before > posting. If I googled before I posted to every mailing list, I would never get anything done. silky didn't exist 3 years ago when I was introduced to silc. :-) Gerald (Had to switch from yahoo to personal account due to volume. Mailing lists don't work well on yahoo.) From gcoon Fri Feb 20 14:15:23 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:15:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple as a BSD review. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > don't know whether to make the move for a ibook or powerbook. if i > purchase new, recommendations. Powerbook. Without a doubt. You get what you pay for. ibooks are great for their price, but they have nuances that eventually stick out that'll make you regret not getting a PB. > i realize the ppc world is very different than that of intel. so how > concerned should i be about an 800 mhz box? i've seen comparisons to > the p iv, p iii, etc, and they seem good. what about ram? Typing to you from a powerbook G4 800 that I bought 12/2002 that still kicks butt. Notes from my experience with Apple since this Pb is my full time work machine and I'm intimately familiar with FreeBSD. - Applecare is better than any tech support I have ever called. It's broke? We'll send you a new one. Get the extended Applecare, it'll pay for itself. Had to send laptop to them once. Mailed it on Monday had it back on Wednesday with new combo drive and case (because the paint was peeling) They don't screw around with you. - Memory: You can't have enough on an Apple. Luckily I bought mine refreshed and it had a gig of RAM in it. I recommend 1/2 a gig or higher on any Apple. Power users (all of us?) will use it. - Virtual PC: Bought my copy when Connectix still owned it. I haven't thrown anything at it that it couldn't handle. YMMV with Microsoft owning it now. The x86 emulation is unbeatable. - CPU: Never have a problem with CPU being my drain. The interface responds differently which is quite often mistaken for being slow CPU, but I installed menumeters to have that information most of the time, and I can eat through most of my RAM (3/4ths) and rarely do I pound hard on the CPU. (Trust me, Memory management will bite you before CPU will) - Panther: Bought the PB with Jag on it. Upgraded to panther as soon as it came out. It was like buying a new laptop. They've got the upgrades down. If you are worried about the cost of Panther, realize Apple isn't in this to give you free stuff (read: hard work in a good upgrade). It's a business first. I don't work for Apple, and before this laptop I have never owned an Apple. I spend most of my time in a Terminal window, X11, & Mozilla. I'm not ready to deploy apple servers since I still think the GUI adds unnecessary bloat and is not an optional feature. (It's still installed on the HD.) Fink is nice, but don't expect it to be an exact dupe of the ports collection. When I gave up on trying to make it the ports collection, I started liking Fink. HTH someone, Gerald From gcoon Fri Feb 20 14:24:18 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:24:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] new. . .ibooks. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040220141733.R15296@mail.bsdisp.com> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > The powerbooks, in general, have a ton of refined perks that add up to > justify their value, (more video ram for external display support, > usually more interface ports etc... [i.e. pci cardbus slot]) - depends > on what you think the jump is worth, the iBooks are totally sweet rigs. I agree with this. I was working on a friends new ibook and it had some things that I just expected to be there since I've had this powerbook for so long and his ibook was new. I don't remember exactly what it was. > > what about ram? > > I get it at crucial.com for mac stuff, have had good experiences with > them for years- I don't care to remember ram speed/parity etc... and > their prices are market value. I also agree with Isaac on this one. If you aren't as lucky as I was to get a used that just had a gig of RAM crucial.com has Mac RAM affordable and you won't get duped by cheap (quality not price) ram. Don't add more RAM from Apple. Keep in mind how many slots you have up front. (Only one extra upgrade slot on the laptop and your upgrade of 128 MB RAM only brings you to 256 isn't a smart upgrade. Next upgrade you'll be throwing away a laptop or RAM.) Gerald From jeffknight Fri Feb 20 14:26:29 2004 From: jeffknight (PUTAMARE) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:26:29 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple as a BSD review. In-Reply-To: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> References: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> Message-ID: On Feb 20, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Gerald wrote: > Powerbook. Without a doubt. You get what you pay for. ibooks are great > for > their price, but they have nuances that eventually stick out that'll > make > you regret not getting a PB. I agree with this statement (& the rest of the post) 100%. Jeff Knight jeff not junkmail at lushmedia.com 212/213-6558 x 203 LUSH media 110 W 40th St #1502 New York, NY 10018 From its Fri Feb 20 14:48:06 2004 From: its (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:48:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] re:apple at nycbug Message-ID: >this would be separate from our monthly meeting. however, i would need >some feedback to get a sense of how many people would attend. Count me in. -Brad From chrislist Fri Feb 20 16:01:11 2004 From: chrislist (Chris McCulloh) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:01:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple as a BSD review. In-Reply-To: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> References: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> Message-ID: <20040220160111.59be07c1@st0wable> > Powerbook. Without a doubt. You get what you pay for. ibooks are great > for their price, but they have nuances that eventually stick out that'll > make you regret not getting a PB. Gerald -- Thank you for the comments, and from my past experience I completely agree with the rest of your message. However I was wondering if you, or anybody else, could elaborate further on some of these nuances. Especially the kind that may be of importance to those of us jumping (back) into Apple from the x86 *nix world. Figured I'd share some of the things I've been discovering in my own research, as I'm looking to make the same decision within the next month or so. I would imagine that most people who are comparing the two aren't deciding between an 800MHz iBook and a 17" 1.33GHz PowerBook, so I've kept my comparisons between the iBook and the 12" & lower-end 15" PowerBooks. Video memory seems to be the same amount on the iBook as the lower-end PowerBook (32MB), although the actual chipsets are different (ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 on the iB, and NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 on the PB). One big thing I've seen on the iB is that it lacks native audio input ports -- it only possesses a headfone output jack, whereas the PB also has a line-in port. External audio input can be added via a USB device, which seems to run around $100-$150 for non-professional versions. Ouch. iB lacks built-in bluetooth support, add $50 for that if you need it (or just wanna hack around at it). And the on-CPU cache is different: 256k on the iB compared to 512k on the PB. Hard drives appear to be UltraATA/100 on the PB, but only listing UltraATA on the iB. I'm assuming this is UltraATA/66? And the 15" PB does have the single CardBus slot. Also something nobody has mentioned -- the base iBook is actually $1099 for the 800MHz 12". That's its biggest advantage, as the base PowerBook is $1599. Thoughts anybody else? -chris -- Chris McCulloh Secure Systems Architect Sinetimore, LLC e: cmcculloh at sinetimore.com t: 212.504.0288 f: 212.656.1469 w: http://www.sinetimore.com a: 40 Broad Street, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10004, USA key: http://www.sinetimore.com/chriskey.pub : [ 9508 07E0 9E6C DD05 4419 40FA 4D96 FD82 24CE 0273 ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040220/e3c78790/attachment.bin From hans Fri Feb 20 16:06:15 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:06:15 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] apple at nycbug meeting Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87937C86@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > at some point after that, apple will look to hold a saturday tech > preview of their new server hardware at their manhattan location. for > instance, this might be from 12-4 pm, with a presentation in the > beginning, with two apple techs roaming around as we hack at the > servers. > > this would be separate from our monthly meeting. however, i > would need > some feedback to get a sense of how many people would attend. +1 From hans Fri Feb 20 16:14:55 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:14:55 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87937C8C@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > ->Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] wlan question. . . > ->On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:09:46AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > ->> ->ps this is my second reply to this post, if I do not see the > ->> ->first reply in the morning I will repost. > ->> -> > ->> ->marc > ->> > ->> i received your first post at 12:43 am. . . > ->> > ->> strange. > ->> > ->> anyone else having an issue? > -> > ->I'm not sure if I'm experiencing what marc was experiencing, > ->but posts are periodically delayed. Sometimes they post > ->immediately, but othertimes they take a long time to appear. > ->Is the server overloaded? > -> > ->-Ray- > > what's going on with this box fence-post maker? Got me... the box has handled 500+ mailing list messages over the last two days... haven't seen any delay. It's generally someone's mail server, before it's the list server :) H From gcoon Fri Feb 20 17:11:37 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:11:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple as a BSD review. In-Reply-To: <20040220160111.59be07c1@st0wable> References: <20040220140102.G15296@mail.bsdisp.com> <20040220160111.59be07c1@st0wable> Message-ID: <20040220163842.H73495@mail.bsdisp.com> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Chris McCulloh wrote: > Thank you for the comments, and from my past experience I completely agree > with the rest of your message. However I was wondering if you, or anybody > else, could elaborate further on some of these nuances. Especially the > kind that may be of importance to those of us jumping (back) into Apple > from the x86 *nix world. A few things I had to get used to when I dove head first in to Apple. 1: "It just works." It really is a hard concept to get comfortable with at first. I'm looking for the right control panel to tweak this setting to make it do what I want it to do, and it just works. This phrase is related to a broad range of tasks. Dual Headed display (plug in and poof), A lot of networking stuff. I still don't like that I have to put interface aliases in at the command line in Panther. I had hoped they would fix that. 2. Don't try to make it something it isn't. I tried to make Fink be the FreeBSD ports that I liked. It's not (yet). I tried to make the GUI be windows or KDE, it's not and won't ever be, but Expose rocks. It's a BSDlike OS with a GUI. Drop back in to Terminal and you can do anything you want, but you may have to put together some of the Tools you already have on FreeBSD...etc. Then some tools are already installed, which surprised me. (vi, perl, apache (though not turned on), gcc) 3. Some people don't need to hear this, but some might...: Don't be afraid to download the src code of a piece of software you want and try to compile it once. (./configure && make) rdesktop compiled just fine in my home directory long before it was in Fink. (long is relative, I didn't look for it after I had a working binary.) 4. READ! Good starter book: "Mac OS X for Unix Geeks" http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mosxgeeks/ Next best but much larger is the Missing Manual. 5. forums.dealmac.com, lot of good people in there that have answers to basic and advanced questions. > Also something nobody has mentioned -- the base iBook is actually $1099 > for the 800MHz 12". That's its biggest advantage, as the base PowerBook > is $1599. I'll answer you off list for this one. I don't see how Mac purchasing tips would be on topic for NYC-BUG...plus I talk too much anyways. Gerald From dan Sat Feb 21 11:52:36 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:52:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] any contacts at Queens College? Message-ID: <20040221115224.A31325@xeon.unixathome.org> I was going through http://www.freebsd.org/gallery/npgallery.html and found Queens College. I'm hoping someone here will have a contact which will help in spreading the word about BSDCan 2004. http://www.bala.qc.edu/ - Queens College -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From mikel.king Sat Feb 21 13:56:48 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:56:48 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N] In-Reply-To: <402BC9E5.6060709@kominik.net> References: <402BC9E5.6060709@kominik.net> Message-ID: <4037A9F0.7060209@ocsny.com> Barry Kominik wrote: > The big library on 42nd/5th does not offer any space where we can talk > for free. However, when the weather gets warmer Bryant park may be a > fun meeting place. They have free wifi! > > Barry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: > Re: [nycbug-talk] meeting at B&N > From: > Barry Kominik > Date: > Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:17:42 -0500 > To: > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > To: > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > > I believe that both Union Square & Tompkins Square parks have it as well. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From mikel.king Sat Feb 21 14:26:02 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:26:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> Ray wrote: >On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 09:05:45AM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >>that's funny in some ways, but the reality is that no one should panic >>about inquiring about "stupid questions" on this list. >> >> > >People should also learn to do research on their own. OpenBSD's >reputed harshness has its educational value too. =) > > One of our goals and a common theme that seemed to attract many of the Linux people that I talked to at the show was that we are not going to allow the rtfm mentality that presently permeates most of the lists. Everyone get's stuck and people new to BSD let alone UNIX tend to get stuck more often. One of Sloth's present arguments is that there isn't any support for joe business user out there. The argument that I have heard more times than I care to recount is that if JBU can't figure it out then he isn't BSD material anyway, let him go try one of those big linux distros, or better yet let him go back to redmond. If we some one drops BSD because we didn't help them by pointing them to the correct reference and answering their question in a friendly polite manner then we are not really living up to the NYCBUG name. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From dan Sat Feb 21 14:35:15 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:35:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Mikel King wrote: > Everyone get's stuck and people new to BSD let alone UNIX tend to get > stuck more often. One of Sloth's present arguments is that there isn't > any support for joe business user out there. > > The argument that I have heard more times than I care to recount is that > if JBU can't figure it out then he isn't BSD material anyway, let him go > try one of those big linux distros, or better yet let him go back to > redmond. > > If we some one drops BSD because we didn't help them by pointing them to > the correct reference and answering their question in a friendly polite > manner then we are not really living up to the NYCBUG name. What Mikel said. Everyone, and I do mean *everyone*, has been a newbie. I remember struggling to get my first BSD machine set up. I haven't forgotten. Neither have I forgotten the very kind help I recieved when I got stuck. I have returned the favour many times over. I will continue to do so. I am having trouble phrasing this next statement without sounding rude: If a group has a mission statement and you don't agree with it, shouldn't you be finding another group? Or at least not going against the statement? -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Sat Feb 21 14:41:05 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:41:05 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: ->> polite manner then we are not really living up to the NYCBUG name. -> ->What Mikel said. -> ->Everyone, and I do mean *everyone*, has been a newbie. I ->remember struggling to get my first BSD machine set up. I ->haven't forgotten. ->Neither have I forgotten the very kind help I recieved when I ->got stuck. ->I have returned the favour many times over. I will continue to do so. -> ->I am having trouble phrasing this next statement without ->sounding rude: ->If a group has a mission statement and you don't agree with ->it, shouldn't you be finding another group? Or at least not ->going against the statement? -> ->-- ->Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ dan & mikel: strongly agree with the sentiment. read the mission statement on the homepage. . . There are two NYCBUG goals: * To provide a forum for regular users of the BSD family. * To provide a bridge to technical users interested in expanding their knowledge of the BSD family. by 'technical users' we don't mean those looking to physically identify their mouse, of course. or users looking for quark short-cut keys. . . while some seem to disagree, i hope nycbug can become a bridge between the newer and more experienced bsd users in nyc. part of becoming experienced is being part of regular discussions, understanding the lexicon, knowing the resources, etc. we don't want to dumb down things, but neither do we want to build a wall of arrogance. particularly when it's a wall that many of us had to cross in the past. g From ray Sat Feb 21 15:45:24 2004 From: ray (Ray) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:45:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 02:35:15PM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > I am having trouble phrasing this next statement without sounding rude: > If a group has a mission statement and you don't agree with it, shouldn't > you be finding another group? Or at least not going against the > statement? I'm not sure if this is in response to what I said earlier: >People should also learn to do research on their own. OpenBSD's >reputed harshness has its educational value too. =) but I was not suggesting that we just automatically respond ``RTFM'' to every statement. Rather, it would be nice if we could also nurture some people to learn to do research on their own, instead of blindly asking questions that have been asked again and again. After all, if a user decides to use BSD and finds it impossible to use without asking for help on a mailing list, they'll just be left with the impression that BSD is completely unusable. From mikel.king Sat Feb 21 15:45:41 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:45:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Possible Meeting topics... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4037C375.3030208@ocsny.com> G. Rosamond wrote: >fyi. . .i'm trying to keep our clunky, vi-written site (that will soon >be replaced) as updated as possible. > >http://nycbug.org/futureevents.html > >having a problem with getting wasabi on the line, even though they >agreed to the meeting a few weeks ago. we may have to scramble to >replace the march meeting topic. > >g > > So does anyone have a good idea? Or should we just skip the meeting part and go straight to the pub?...;-) Just kidding. BSD basics? Stupid shell tricks? Grep this, awk that? How to make a widget out of a sprocket? I know these are silly and I'm sure some one on the list will have a more serious idea. So let's hear them. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From dan Sat Feb 21 15:49:42 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:49:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040221154856.K79444@xeon.unixathome.org> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Ray wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 02:35:15PM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > > I am having trouble phrasing this next statement without sounding rude: > > If a group has a mission statement and you don't agree with it, shouldn't > > you be finding another group? Or at least not going against the > > statement? > > I'm not sure if this is in response to what I said earlier: > >People should also learn to do research on their own. OpenBSD's > >reputed harshness has its educational value too. =) It was not in repsonse to that. It was a general statement. -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From pete Sat Feb 21 17:15:34 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:15:34 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Possible Meeting topics... In-Reply-To: <4037C375.3030208@ocsny.com> References: <4037C375.3030208@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <4037D886.4070406@nomadlogic.org> Mikel King wrote: > > > > I know these are silly and I'm sure some one on the list will have a > more serious idea. So let's hear them. > fun with wi-fi and bsd? -pete From george Sat Feb 21 17:19:56 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:19:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Possible Meeting topics... In-Reply-To: <4037D886.4070406@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: ->Mikel King wrote: -> ->> ->> ->> ->> I know these are silly and I'm sure some one on the list ->will have a ->> more serious idea. So let's hear them. ->> -> ->fun with wi-fi and bsd? -> ->-pete that's a great topic. . . driftnet may be my favorite port ever. . . any ideas for speakers? i have spoken to don at bsdmall and grant of oreilley about getting up some speakers/authors. and i'm keeping nycbug.org/futureevents.html current. .. g From felix Fri Feb 20 14:25:43 2004 From: felix (felix zaslavskiy) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:25:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040220142543.00468ccb.felix@students.poly.edu> > BSD basics? > Stupid shell tricks? > Grep this, awk that? > How to make a widget out of a sprocket? > > I know these are silly and I'm sure some one on the list will have a > more serious idea. So let's hear them. > Maybe my idea is more serious. I like to know how to utilize BSD in enterprise environment. How would someone handle RAID(software, hardware) , Logical volume managment. Basically I like to have answer to the question to how to make sure your data will never be lost or corupted and how can BSD help ? From pete Sat Feb 21 17:39:24 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:39:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: <20040220142543.00468ccb.felix@students.poly.edu> References: <20040220142543.00468ccb.felix@students.poly.edu> Message-ID: <4037DE1C.1030202@nomadlogic.org> felix zaslavskiy wrote: > > >>BSD basics? >>Stupid shell tricks? >>Grep this, awk that? >>How to make a widget out of a sprocket? >> >>I know these are silly and I'm sure some one on the list will have a >>more serious idea. So let's hear them. >> >> >> > >Maybe my idea is more serious. I like to know how to utilize BSD in >enterprise environment. How would someone handle RAID(software, >hardware) , Logical volume managment. > > yes i think that would be a very good topic esp. regarding the whole reworking of vimun in FreeBSD 5. this article at kerneltrap.org may also be of interest to you regarding this. http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2425 and hey who say's storage and data protection can't be a fun topic ;^) -pete From george Sat Feb 21 17:44:06 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:44:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: <20040220142543.00468ccb.felix@students.poly.edu> Message-ID: ->Maybe my idea is more serious. I like to know how to utilize ->BSD in enterprise environment. How would someone handle ->RAID(software, ->hardware) , Logical volume managment. -> ->Basically I like to have answer to the question to how to ->make sure your data will never be lost or corupted and how ->can BSD help ? these are good ideas. i'm keeping them in a list i have been maintaining: encryption & steg on bsd tunneling & vpns netbsd crypto with cgd (our march meeting topic) apple, darwin & bsd (our april meeting) large plant issues/bsd in enterprise linux & bsd bsd & wireless fun netbsd & embedded systems. . did i miss anything? we need to be finding speakers though. . . g From pete Sat Feb 21 17:45:58 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:45:58 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4037DFA6.8000906@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: >encryption & steg on bsd >tunneling & vpns >netbsd crypto with cgd (our march meeting topic) >apple, darwin & bsd (our april meeting) >large plant issues/bsd in enterprise >linux & bsd >bsd & wireless fun >netbsd & embedded systems. . > >did i miss anything? > >we need to be finding speakers though. . . > > > i think the install-fest and wireless things could be a group type thing requiring no speaker. i would be willing to bring in some wireless gear/media/etc. for both of these... -pete >g > >_______________________________________________ >talk mailing list >talk at lists.nycbug.org >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > From george Sat Feb 21 17:50:30 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:50:30 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: <4037DFA6.8000906@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: ->i think the install-fest and wireless things could be a group ->type thing requiring no speaker. i would be willing to bring ->in some wireless gear/media/etc. for both of these... ->-pete okay. . .that makes sense. so we'll make it a wireless install fest? or hacking wireless tools on bsd, and we'll help out with wireless connectivity? it seems an intro install fest would be separate. . . g From mspitze1 Sat Feb 21 18:09:32 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:09:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20040221180932.7e83709a@bogomips.optonline.net> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:45:24 -0500 Ray wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 02:35:15PM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > > I am having trouble phrasing this next statement without sounding > > rude: If a group has a mission statement and you don't agree with > > it, shouldn't you be finding another group? Or at least not going > > against the statement? > > I'm not sure if this is in response to what I said earlier: > >People should also learn to do research on their own. OpenBSD's > >reputed harshness has its educational value too. =) > but I was not suggesting that we just automatically respond ``RTFM'' > to every statement. Rather, it would be nice if we could also > nurture some people to learn to do research on their own, instead > of blindly asking questions that have been asked again and again. > > After all, if a user decides to use BSD and finds it impossible to > use without asking for help on a mailing list, they'll just be left > with the impression that BSD is completely unusable. One thing that is being overlooked is that the BSD's man pages are good and accurate documents, unlike many Linux man pages, so it is actually useful when the proper man pages are listed. Also a goal of this group is to make people more technical/self sufficient and the only way to do that is to read. Now I am not saying that we should not help them but that we should help them in such a way that they will stop needing help eventually, hopefully pretty quickly, thats all. marc From scottro Sat Feb 21 19:05:15 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:05:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221180932.7e83709a@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040221180932.7e83709a@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040222000515.GB32229@scottro11.homeunix.net> On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 06:09:32PM -0500, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:45:24 -0500 > Ray wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 02:35:15PM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: > > One thing that is being overlooked is that the BSD's man pages are good > and accurate documents, unlike many Linux man pages, so it is actually > useful when the proper man pages are listed. Also a goal of this group > is to make people more technical/self sufficient and the only way to do > that is to read. Now I am not saying that we should not help them but > that we should help them in such a way that they will stop needing help > eventually, hopefully pretty quickly, thats all. There's also the point that sometimes people simply don't realize there is a man page for something. For instance, on an irc channel, someone asked about speeding up FreeBSD and I suggested looking at man tune--the fellow hadn't realized there was such a man page. I remember thinking (and this may have in the end been added to the official faq, I think I saw it there after awhile) commenting to a developer friend that there were literally hundreds of people with the problem of--gahh, I forget the error, something about dropping to PIO mode on boot, and 9 times out of 10, this was fixed by replacing cheap IDE cable with shielded 80 pin ATA 100 cable. Turned out my friend had mentioned this in a man page he had written--man ata, however I'd no idea to look for such a man page. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike: What's Big Blue doing anyway? The Judge: I am preparing. Spike: It's interesting to me that preparing looks a great bit like sitting on your ass. From George Sat Feb 21 20:23:23 2004 From: George (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:23:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: NYCBUG membership/meetings? In-Reply-To: <71F52230-64D4-11D8-BAF6-000A95CE5EA6@verizon.net> References: <71F52230-64D4-11D8-BAF6-000A95CE5EA6@verizon.net> Message-ID: <2786.162.83.195.164.1077413003.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> A wise person once said. . . Queco Jones > Hi! :) > > I just found out about this BUG and wonder if I could join. I only > have a Mac OS X system though (it is based on FreeBSD), but is it > "kosher"? absolutely. . .we are happy to have many os x users in the group. the april meeting will be given by an apple engineer. > What are the steps to membership? Any fees? no fees. join the mailing list for talk at lists.nycbug.org. > About the meetings, are they open to the public or just to members? It > looks like they're always on a wednesday, but what is the time for > meetings to start? How long do they usually run? all are welcome. 7 pm meetings. 1st wed of the month. meetings about 1.5-2 hours. > Anyways, sorry to just dump a bunch of questions on you, but I am > curious. :) not a problem. we look forward to meeting you. g From gcoon Sat Feb 21 20:24:15 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:24:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040221201628.S81911@mail.bsdisp.com> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > Everyone, and I do mean *everyone*, has been a newbie. I remember > struggling to get my first BSD machine set up. I haven't forgotten. > Neither have I forgotten the very kind help I recieved when I got stuck. > I have returned the favour many times over. I will continue to do so. This is too funny. When I was a newbie web sites specifically like freebsddiary.org, the online handbook, and one of the admins that was well versed in BSD helped me learn. I find it funny because Dan is freebsddiary.org. If you've never been to the site (even though it's getting a little dated now on some topics) it is a great place to learn basic step-by-step How do I $Something on FreeBSD. Where $Something is a huge list of topics. One day when I actually have the time and motivation I hoped to finish/start my macosxdiary.org. I registered it a while back but never took the time to put the site together. Gerald From pete Sun Feb 22 10:51:09 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:51:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] www site updates. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4038CFED.8000705@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: >or hacking wireless tools on bsd, and we'll help >out with wireless connectivity? > > i think hacking wireless tools w/ BSD might be a good topic. it seems there is a fair amount of Mac users, and i'm sure there are some win and *nix users w/ laptops in our group so this could be a pretty interesting topic. we could even focus it more by demo'ing a wireless authentication app like noCatauth or something. i'm just kicking out idea's, is anyone else interested in something like this? -pete From chun_lam Mon Feb 23 08:42:55 2004 From: chun_lam (Matthew Lam) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:42:55 -0500 Subject: FW: [nycbug-talk] RE: Close port 110 Message-ID: <000201c3fa12$f0cbf6c0$0400000a@java2> Thank You All for helping on this. I finally found where the problem is when I find the log file. One of the service scripts is calling the wrong binary. Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040223/14eeb6ed/attachment.html From trish Mon Feb 23 14:20:55 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:20:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223141928.U1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > providing a link is telling someone where to find the answer. not what > the answer is. > > i think there's an issue with this to be honest. not clear on your line > between stupid and lazy. sounds pretty condescending to me. i like to > think that this group could congeal into something that bridges the gap > between the newer but eager and the experienced but not withdrawn. i > know trish thinks otherwise on this later point. . . > The only thing I think otherwise about is that I think the older, more experienced people need a more social atmosphere than a learning one. bridging the gap is fine, but don't just focus on new people. Some of us have been there, done that and deserve a few beers :) -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From trish Mon Feb 23 14:40:19 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:40:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040222000515.GB32229@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040221180932.7e83709a@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040222000515.GB32229@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20040223143743.X1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Scott Robbins wrote: > There's also the point that sometimes people simply don't realize there > is a man page for something. For instance, on an irc channel, someone > asked about speeding up FreeBSD and I suggested looking at man tune--the > fellow hadn't realized there was such a man page. > its "man tuning" for the tuning(7) man page. I have to say, the best thing anyone ever directly taught me about UNIX in general was how to sue apropos(1) (aka whatis or man -k) and man. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From scottro Mon Feb 23 15:09:12 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:09:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . In-Reply-To: <20040223143743.X1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20040218002356.382e48fb.mspitze1@optonline.net> <20040219045256.GD4807@cybertron.cyth.net> <4037B0CA.6080802@ocsny.com> <20040221142902.E31325@xeon.unixathome.org> <20040221204524.GA17442@cybertron.cyth.net> <20040221180932.7e83709a@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040222000515.GB32229@scottro11.homeunix.net> <20040223143743.X1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <20040223200912.GA2686@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 02:40:19PM -0500, Trish Lynch wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > There's also the point that sometimes people simply don't realize there > > is a man page for something. For instance, on an irc channel, someone > > asked about speeding up FreeBSD and I suggested looking at man tune--the > > fellow hadn't realized there was such a man page. > > > > its "man tuning" for the tuning(7) man page. Heh, you're right, that's what happens when writing when busy. :) > > I have to say, the best thing anyone ever directly taught me about UNIX > in general was how to sue apropos(1) (aka whatis or man -k) and man. I always misspell apropos so I tend to stick with man -k -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike: I did a couple of slayers in my time. I don't like to brag. Who am I kidding? I love to brag. One time, during the Boxer Rebellion... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040223/16ddf12d/attachment.bin From jesse Mon Feb 23 16:50:07 2004 From: jesse (jc) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:50:07 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info Message-ID: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> I'm not in love with myself or anything, but I like to check my packages every once in a while. I was doing some stuff [which I'd probably have never ventured to do w/o the help of freebsddiary.org] and needed to get the installed packages without the descriptions. I made a perl script which would s/^ +$//. It was a little more than a one-liner, but I had to... let me be explicit: open PKG, "pkg_info |"; while () { s/^ +$//; # theres a space between ^ + print; } How else can I do this? Whats the regex to use in sed? I know it's boring, but I'm bored. From jschauma Mon Feb 23 17:04:36 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:04:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: <20040223220436.GB10928@netmeister.org> jc wrote: > needed to get the installed packages without the descriptions. On NetBSD: pkg_info -e '*' -Jan -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040223/4014fe9c/attachment.bin From okan Mon Feb 23 17:06:38 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:05:38 -0501 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: <20040223220600.GJ11376@stravinsky.khaoz.org> On Mon 2004.02.23 at 16:50 -0500, jc wrote: > I'm not in love with myself or anything, but I like to check my packages > every once in a while. I was doing some stuff [which I'd probably have never > ventured to do w/o the help of freebsddiary.org] and needed to get the > installed packages without the descriptions. I made a perl script which > would s/^ +$//. It was a little more than a one-liner, but I had to... let > me be explicit: > > > open PKG, "pkg_info |"; > while () { > s/^ +$//; # theres a space between ^ + > print; > } > > How else can I do this? Whats the regex to use in sed? I know it's boring, > but I'm bored. or: ls /var/db/pkg okan > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- From mspitze1 Mon Feb 23 18:15:56 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:15:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> Message-ID: <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:50:07 -0500 jc wrote: > I'm not in love with myself or anything, but I like to check my > packages every once in a while. I was doing some stuff [which I'd > probably have never ventured to do w/o the help of freebsddiary.org] > and needed to get the installed packages without the descriptions. I > made a perl script which would s/^ +$//. It was a little more than a > one-liner, but I had to... let me be explicit: > > > open PKG, "pkg_info |"; > while () { > s/^ +$//; # theres a space between ^ + > print; > } man awk. ie pkg_info |awk '{print $1}' assumes pkg_info output looks like this: xview-3.2.1_2 X Window-System-based Visual/Integrated Environment for Wor yencode-0.46_1 A free (GPL) encoder and decoder for the yEnc Usenet file f marc ps cut would also work, but only on the first field, hint man cut > > How else can I do this? Whats the regex to use in sed? I know it's > boring, but I'm bored. > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From mspitze1 Mon Feb 23 18:26:36 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:26:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040223182636.0e89537d@bogomips.optonline.net> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:15:56 -0500 Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:50:07 -0500 > jc wrote: > > > I'm not in love with myself or anything, but I like to check my > > packages every once in a while. I was doing some stuff [which I'd > > probably have never ventured to do w/o the help of freebsddiary.org] > > and needed to get the installed packages without the descriptions. I > > made a perl script which would s/^ +$//. It was a little more than a > > one-liner, but I had to... let me be explicit: > > > > > > open PKG, "pkg_info |"; > > while () { > > s/^ +$//; # theres a space between ^ + > > print; > > } Forgot to mention before your RE is wrong, it says "from the begining of the line match all the spaces to the end of the line and substatute with nothing" Try this one instead: /^(\S+)\s/ ie pkg_info |perl -ne ' /^(\S+)\s/ ; print "$1\n";' and perldoc -f split marc > > man awk. > > ie > > pkg_info |awk '{print $1}' > > assumes pkg_info output looks like this: > > xview-3.2.1_2 X Window-System-based Visual/Integrated > Environment for Wor > yencode-0.46_1 A free (GPL) encoder and decoder for the yEnc > Usenet file f > > marc > > ps cut would also work, but only on the first field, hint man cut > > > > > > > How else can I do this? Whats the regex to use in sed? I know it's > > boring, but I'm bored. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > talk mailing list > > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From jschauma Mon Feb 23 18:50:32 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:50:32 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040223235032.GA27857@netmeister.org> Marc Spitzer wrote: > pkg_info |awk '{print $1}' pkg_info | cut -d' ' -f1 pkg_info | sed -e 's/\(^[^ ]*\).*/\1/' But 'ls /var/db/pkg' and 'pkg_info -e '*'' are faster than the three above (and speed sure counts in this instance, n'est-ce pas?). And for extra-credit, if you hosed your system and can't use either pkg_info or ls, you can let the shell do it all for you: cd /var/db/pkg echo * -Jan -- I always said there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040223/6e59103d/attachment.bin From mspitze1 Mon Feb 23 18:53:12 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:53:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info In-Reply-To: <20040223235032.GA27857@netmeister.org> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2> <20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040223235032.GA27857@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20040223185312.602f6fa6@bogomips.optonline.net> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:50:32 -0500 Jan Schaumann wrote: > Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > pkg_info |awk '{print $1}' > > pkg_info | cut -d' ' -f1 > pkg_info | sed -e 's/\(^[^ ]*\).*/\1/' > > But 'ls /var/db/pkg' and 'pkg_info -e '*'' are faster than the three > above (and speed sure counts in this instance, n'est-ce pas?). I said cut works but it will *only* work on the first column for pkg_info output. And I always found sed weird. > > And for extra-credit, if you hosed your system and can't use either > pkg_info or ls, you can let the shell do it all for you: If your system is that hosed you have bigger problems marc > > cd /var/db/pkg > echo * > > -Jan > > -- > I always said there was something fundamentally wrong with the > universe. > From jesse Mon Feb 23 21:07:23 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:07:23 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info - oy References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2><20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040223182636.0e89537d@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <005d01c3fa7a$f16be500$0402a8c0@bmswyngx6fkyy3> > > > open PKG, "pkg_info |"; > > > while () { > > > s/^ +$//; # theres a space between ^ + > > > print; > > > } > > Forgot to mention before your RE is wrong, it says "from the begining of > the line match all the spaces to the end of the line and substatute with nothing" > Try this one instead: > > /^(\S+)\s/ > > ie > pkg_info |perl -ne ' /^(\S+)\s/ ; print "$1\n";' right, I guess I had a dot in there. I'll have to admit that I didn't remember what I'd written or try to go through the (not very complicated) logic of rebuilding it. Let's just say I was tired. But this is the kind of dialog I was looking for. And I really like that - echo * which Jan wrote about. That's just about as pure as globbing could get. Totally overlooked it. I never read a book about the shell.... and I'm not sure which man page is the informative one for sh or bash. Whoops, I'm wrong. The sh(1) page has this Grammar section which I've frankly never seen. I've seriosly looked for it... anyway, thank you for the responses Now I'm off to try to boot up with the kernel which DOES have the Berkely Fast File system aka Unix(tm)? File System (but not OPTION UFS! urg) -jesse From trish Mon Feb 23 22:46:12 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:46:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info - oy In-Reply-To: <005d01c3fa7a$f16be500$0402a8c0@bmswyngx6fkyy3> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2><20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040223182636.0e89537d@bogomips.optonline.net> <005d01c3fa7a$f16be500$0402a8c0@bmswyngx6fkyy3> Message-ID: <20040223224536.N1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Jesse Callaway wrote: > logic of rebuilding it. Let's just say I was tired. > > But this is the kind of dialog I was looking for. And I really like that - > > echo * > > which Jan wrote about. That's just about as pure as globbing could get. > Totally overlooked it. I never read a book about the shell.... and I'm not > sure which man page is the informative one for sh or bash. Whoops, I'm > wrong. The sh(1) page has this Grammar section which I've frankly never > seen. I've seriosly looked for it... > I'll take *stupid* Shell Scripting for $1000 Alex. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From trish Mon Feb 23 23:01:39 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:01:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: CORRECTION Re: [nycbug-talk] pkg_info - oy In-Reply-To: <20040223224536.N1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <003101c3fa57$00703c00$69fea8c0@noc2><20040223181556.2cfd4c2f@bogomips.optonline.net> <20040223182636.0e89537d@bogomips.optonline.net> <005d01c3fa7a$f16be500$0402a8c0@bmswyngx6fkyy3> <20040223224536.N1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <20040223230103.W1052@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Trish Lynch wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > > logic of rebuilding it. Let's just say I was tired. > > > > But this is the kind of dialog I was looking for. And I really like that - > > > > echo * > > > > which Jan wrote about. That's just about as pure as globbing could get. > > Totally overlooked it. I never read a book about the shell.... and I'm not > > sure which man page is the informative one for sh or bash. Whoops, I'm > > wrong. The sh(1) page has this Grammar section which I've frankly never > > seen. I've seriosly looked for it... > > > > I'll take *stupid* Shell Scripting for $1000 Alex. > > -Trish > I actually meant "Stupid Shell Tricks" , my head is not all here tonight. ":) -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From anthony Tue Feb 24 13:07:33 2004 From: anthony (Anthony Sofia) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:07:33 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location Message-ID: <20040224180733.GA26272@dryhump.net> Sorry if I missed it on the list, but was a new meeting location picked out for the next meeting? Either way, if one of the city folk on the list could point me in the right direction to go from grand central i would be much obliged. Thanks, Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net) -- I'll take care of those murderous trolls. From george Tue Feb 24 13:11:03 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:11:03 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <20040224180733.GA26272@dryhump.net> Message-ID: >Sorry if I missed it on the list, but was a new meeting >location picked out for >the next meeting? Either way, if one of the city folk on the >list could point >me in the right direction to go from grand central i would be >much obliged. > >Thanks, > >Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net) i don't think we made a decision. . .did we? what happened with the followup on union square barnes & nobles? g From pete Tue Feb 24 14:45:57 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:45:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Odd file Message-ID: <403BA9F5.3050101@nomadlogic.org> Hey all, I've found a wierd thing happenig on my FreeBSD 5.2-RELEASE box. Upon doing a "df" to see how my disks are doing in noticed that my / partition was at 108% capaacity!! woah! i did a "ls -lh" in / and noticed this file: --atime-preserve it is 194 megs...odd. i've searched google.com/bsd and groups.google.com and that did not return anything...has anyone else seen this? i'm kinda at a loss as to where that would come from...maybe from a "tar" command that was aborted or something....i'm at a loss. -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From pete Tue Feb 24 14:47:25 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:47:25 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Odd file In-Reply-To: <403BA9F5.3050101@nomadlogic.org> References: <403BA9F5.3050101@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <403BAA4D.4060101@nomadlogic.org> Pete Wright wrote: > Hey all, > I've found a wierd thing happenig on my FreeBSD 5.2-RELEASE box. > Upon doing a "df" to see how my disks are doing in noticed that my / > partition was at 108% capaacity!! woah! i did a "ls -lh" in / and > noticed this file: > --atime-preserve > it is 194 megs...odd. i've searched google.com/bsd and > groups.google.com and that did not return anything...has anyone else > seen this? i'm kinda at a loss as to where that would come > from...maybe from a "tar" command that was aborted or something....i'm > at a loss. > > > -pete > > errp...never mind it was a botched tar command. sorry please ignore :( -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Wed Feb 25 14:46:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:46:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] March 3rd Meeting location Message-ID: as mentioned earlier, the march 3rd meeting will take place at SageSecure's offices again. we'll do some rearranging of the room to add more chairs. if we got some of those tables out of there, we would have had seats for ten more. i updated the location in future events section of the site. didn't realize the location wasn't stated. g From george Wed Feb 25 18:00:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:00:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] removing compilers in obsd Message-ID: i know that one way to further lockdown an openbsd (or any bsd) box is to not install the compilers, compxx from the install sets. they are necessary if you're hacking the kernel, using ports, etc. but after you've used them, how do you remove them? is there some easy way? g From okan Wed Feb 25 18:17:26 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:17:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] removing compilers in obsd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225231748.GU5870@stravinsky.khaoz.org> On Wed 2004.02.25 at 18:00 -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > i know that one way to further lockdown an openbsd > (or any bsd) box is to not install the compilers, > compxx from the install sets. > > they are necessary if you're hacking the kernel, > using ports, etc. > > but after you've used them, how do you remove > them? one could this way: cd / for i in $(tar zvf comp34.tgz); do rm -f $i; done then you have directories left...but i think they should stay cause of mtree. okan > is there some easy way? > > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- From mspitze1 Wed Feb 25 19:45:41 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:45:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] removing compilers in obsd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225194541.1698a1d1@bogomips.optonline.net> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:00:55 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > i know that one way to further lockdown an openbsd > (or any bsd) box is to not install the compilers, > compxx from the install sets. > I do not think it is worth worrying about too much, its not really adding anything meaningful to your security. You are much better off spending the time setting up a root kit detection tripwire/mtree script that runs every 5 min. on selected binaries, ls and the like, so you get alerted and/or take the proper action(shutdown -y now for example). Most exploits are in binary form already. > they are necessary if you're hacking the kernel, > using ports, etc. > > but after you've used them, how do you remove > them? rm gcc f77 g++ ... or chmod 0000 gcc f77 g++ ... but I would recommend against removing the full suite because the compiler comes with a lot of shared libraries that may be used in different parts of the system. marc From ike Thu Feb 26 11:07:27 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:07:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsddiary and macosxhints Message-ID: On Feb 21, 2004, at 8:24 PM, Gerald wrote: Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] list protocol. . . > One day when I actually have the time and motivation I hoped to > finish/start my macosxdiary.org. I registered it a while back but never > took the time to put the site together. Just wanted to shout out really quick that there is such a resource online for MacOSX, http://www.macosxhints.com/ Totally amazing resource- one guy runs it single-handedly, and got an ORilley book deal out of it- (the book is pretty cool imho). Everything from gui apps to server action covered, moderated somewhat slashdot style. Rocket- .ike From jeffknight Thu Feb 26 11:27:33 2004 From: jeffknight (PUTAMARE) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:27:33 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsddiary and macosxhints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 26, 2004, at 11:07 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Just wanted to shout out really quick that there is such a resource > online for MacOSX, > http://www.macosxhints.com/ Don't forget the other great resource: http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/ Jeff Knight jeff not junkmail at lushmedia.com 212/213-6558 x 203 LUSH media 110 W 40th St #1502 New York, NY 10018 From george Thu Feb 26 13:52:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:52:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] lesmuug meeting. . . Message-ID: this was posted to the announce list, but the membership of talk hovers around 100 and i think that announce is under 30 at this point. . . the lower east side mac unix user group is meeting tonight. for more information: http://lesmuug.org/meetings.html g From george Thu Feb 26 13:58:10 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:58:10 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Tekserve. . . Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: David Lerner [mailto:david at tekserve.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:45 PM >To: george at sddi.net >Cc: wes at sagesecure.com; Nick D'Amico; Aaron Freimark >Subject: Re: message for dave. . . > >> My name's george and i'm involved with nyc bsd >> user group (nycbug). i believe you have spoken to >> wes sonnenreich at some point. our group is very >> open to the apple world and includes many >> technical apple users. >> >> we'd like to have some relations with you guys. >> >> is there i good time for me to stop by to speak >> with you? > >I've asked Nick D'Amico, one of our lead techs who's >intimately involved >with bsd and Panther to contact you. I'm happy to join in a >meeting, but I >can't talk from the techie side... > >I've also copied Aaron Freimark, who heads our networking and >on-site group. > >David Lerner / Tekserve >Apple Specialist - Macintosh Systems, Solutions and Service >Walk-in and mail address: 119 West 23rd Street, New York, NY 10011 >shipping address: 114 West 24th Street, New York, NY 10011 >phone 212 929-3645 / fax 212 463-9280 / help at tekserve.com > >The shop is open 9-7 Weekdays, 10-5 Saturdays and 12-5 Sundays > May You have 1000 Backups and Never Need One From george Thu Feb 26 15:34:22 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:34:22 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting. . . Message-ID: sorry for the delay in providing details. . . march's monthly meeting will be on CryptoGraphic Disk Driver, to be presented by Roland Dowdeswell, a NetBSD developer. the basic info is up on the www site. once he gets me the spiel, i'll send to the list, and then please start getting the word out on the news sites, usenet, mailing lists, etc. i'll hit daemon news. . .other volunteers? hans, nyphp list. . . g From gcoon Thu Feb 26 17:14:34 2004 From: gcoon (Gerald) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:14:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Tekserve. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226171010.K99569@mail.bsdisp.com> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> My name's george and i'm involved with nyc bsd > >> user group (nycbug). i believe you have spoken > to George, I beg of you, if you plan to pretend to represent a group of intelligent people, learn to use capitalization in business communications. Please have someone else communicate with these people if you insist on removing all of your shift keys. I don't mind being associated with a group of people most times, but I will distance myself from this group and encourage others to do the same if that's what we look like to businesses. Gerald From john Fri Feb 27 09:41:53 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:41:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040227144152.GA9974@dancer> * G. Rosamond [20040226 15:34]: > hans, nyphp list. . . John, nylug, deadly.org. Don't forget to timely post the announcement to the ml. John -- John Bacalle jbacalle at nylug.org 'Pi ma dan qiang' john at unixen.org From George Fri Feb 27 10:15:19 2004 From: George (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:15:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] March 3rd meeting blurb Message-ID: <1567.162.83.161.98.1077894919.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> (this blurb is straight from the pen of roland) * * * * * * NYC BSD User Group March Meeting The CryptoGraphic Disk Device Introduced in NetBSD -current and part of the upcoming 2.0 release, the CryptoGraphic Disk Device (CGD) provides cryptographic security for data stored on hard drives. We shall cover the following: 1. the high level design of CGD, 2. threat models, 3. comparison with both other cryptographic disk drivers and file systems, and 4. how to use CGD, and make sure that you are using it securely. For background information on CGD please refer to http://www.Imrryr.org/~elric/cgd/ WHEN: Wednesday, March 3rd, 7 pm WHERE: 116 W. 23rd Street (and 6th Ave), 5th Floor for more information: www.nycbug.org * * * * * g From lists Fri Feb 27 10:36:43 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:36:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] March Meeting Message-ID: <20040227103643.6ff0e3d5.lists@genoverly.net> All, I need some help here. Addison-Wesley & Prentice Hall has very graciously donated a few books as a raffle or give-away for our March NYCBUG meeting. www.phptr.com www.awprofessional.com How about these? 1) The Art of UNIX Programming 0131429019 2) Firewalls and Internet Security: Repelling the Wily Hacker , Second Edition 020163466X Let me know, Michael -- --- From george Fri Feb 27 10:41:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:41:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] March Meeting In-Reply-To: <20040227103643.6ff0e3d5.lists@genoverly.net> Message-ID: >I need some help here. Addison-Wesley & Prentice Hall has very >graciously donated a few books as a raffle or give-away for our >March NYCBUG meeting. > >www.phptr.com >www.awprofessional.com > >How about these? > >1) The Art of UNIX Programming 0131429019 >2) Firewalls and Internet Security: Repelling the Wily Hacker , >Second Edition 020163466X > >Let me know, >Michael good choices. whoever gets them, writes a review that will go up on the new site. g From george Fri Feb 27 11:04:00 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:04:00 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting, again. . . Message-ID: locales to be hit: netbsd mailing lists (advocacy, nyc regional) obsd mailing lists freebsd mailing lists bsdhound.com bsdnews.org freebsdaddicts.org rootprompt.org bsdforums.org bsdvault.net usenet/deja nylug list (john b) nyphp list (hans z) deadly (john b) dn (george r) while we won't hit them all, i just wanted to provide a list to everyone to work off of. it's also clear that many of these sites are not exactly timely in their posting procedures. g From george Fri Feb 27 11:57:57 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:57:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "orgcom" Message-ID: after some discussions, several nycbug-related individuals, including myself, hans z and ike l withdrew from the efforts to put together some type of free and open source event with the collection of characters from various user groups in and around nyc. if anyone wants details, i'd be glad to provide them offline, but as i stated in an earlier meeting, the group didn't have much going for it, and was more focused on trivial details and historical personal conflicts than actually organizing anything. this does not mean that we won't be looking to organize some events in the short and long-terms with other groups such as ny linux user group, new york php, lisp nyc, etc. there has been some great contacts made, and we look forward to some kind of non-technical bbq sometime in the late spring that pulls together a bunch of people, including nycbug. g From george Fri Feb 27 11:59:57 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:59:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting, again. . . In-Reply-To: <50167.63.211.44.194.1077899751.squirrel@63.211.44.194> Message-ID: >hey all, > i've created a PDF flyer that we can use to post at >various locations >around the city. i'll be putting one up at tekserve. i'm not a >designer, but i do work w/ designers so if anyone has any ideas on >how to fix/improve this lemme know! > >cheers, > pete nice, but i think the end got cut off. . .. g From pete Fri Feb 27 12:36:56 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:36:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting, again. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50449.63.211.44.194.1077903416.squirrel@63.211.44.194> > > while we won't hit them all, i just wanted to provide a list to everyone > to work off of. it's also clear that many of these sites are not > exactly timely in their posting procedures. > i've created a PDF that we can use to put on boards around the city, i'll be putting one at tekserve, maybe we can post some at NYU, Columbia etc... here is the URL: http://www.nomadlogic.org/~pete/nycbug/ there is an .ai file as well as the PDF so feel free to copy/edit it! cheers pete > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Fri Feb 27 17:28:06 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:28:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SCO & nmap Message-ID: if you haven't heard yet, fyodor has revoked SCO's rights to distribute nmap. this is from insecure.org: SCO Corporation of Lindon, Utah (formerly Caldera) has lately taken to an extortion campaign of demanding license fees from Linux users for code that they themselves knowingly distributed under the terms of the GNU GPL. They have also refused to accept the GPL, claiming that some preposterous theory of theirs makes it invalid (and even unconstitutional)! Meanwhile they have distributed GPL-licensed Nmap in (at least) their "Supplemental Open Source CD". In response to these blatant violations, and in accordance with section 4 of the GPL, we hereby terminate SCO's rights to redistribute any versions of Nmap in any of their products, including (without limitation) OpenLinux, Skunkware, OpenServer, and UNIXWare. We have also stopped supporting the OpenServer and UNIXWare platforms. From jeffknight Fri Feb 27 13:48:28 2004 From: jeffknight (PUTAMARE) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:48:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG logo Message-ID: <886FFC4A-6955-11D8-9988-000393B9FB36@mac.com> I've been kind of swamped & the logo effort has been languishing. Here is what I have so far. I've included an .ai of the logos in case pete or anyone wanted to use it in any materials. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nycbuglogo.png Type: image/png Size: 10700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040227/6b7e561b/attachment.png -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nycbuglogo.zip Type: application/zip Size: 30903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20040227/6b7e561b/attachment.zip -------------- next part -------------- Jeff Knight jeff not junkmail at lushmedia.com 212/213-6558 x 203 LUSH media 110 W 40th St #1502 New York, NY 10018 From george Fri Feb 27 19:05:56 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:05:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG logo In-Reply-To: <886FFC4A-6955-11D8-9988-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: >I've been kind of swamped & the logo effort has been languishing. Here >is what I have so far. I've included an .ai of the logos in case pete >or anyone wanted to use it in any materials. jeff. . . i think these are AWESOME. very impressed. . . i'll be very proud to sport these on a tshirt, bumper sticker, anywhere. it'll work great for the new site also. other thoughts? (they actually look like nick cave could have designed them. . .) g From pete Fri Feb 27 19:09:43 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:09:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG logo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403FDC47.8030003@nomadlogic.org> G. Rosamond wrote: >>I've been kind of swamped & the logo effort has been languishing. Here >>is what I have so far. I've included an .ai of the logos in case pete >>or anyone wanted to use it in any materials. >> >> >jeff. . . i think these are AWESOME. > > yea these are great! i'll make another version of the flyer and post that on my site as well. -pete -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From George Fri Feb 27 21:49:41 2004 From: George (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:49:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd announcements. . . Message-ID: <1863.162.84.131.123.1077936581.squirrel@mail.sddi.net> hit the following freebsd lists. . . advocacy user-groups (a dead list) chat newbies g From george Fri Feb 27 22:07:24 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:07:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] jeff's logos. . . Message-ID: i put links to the png and ai/ps file at the bottom of the nycbug homepage, above the bottom menu. . . g From danielk Fri Feb 27 23:04:09 2004 From: danielk (Daniel Krook) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:04:09 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG logo In-Reply-To: <886FFC4A-6955-11D8-9988-000393B9FB36@mac.com> Message-ID: > i'll be very proud to sport these on a tshirt, bumper sticker, anywhere. Agreed. These rock. The black background will look sweet on the tailgate of my black truck... As would a transparent background on the back window. : ) Mudflaps maybe? Jeff, good job. Daniel Krook, Application Developer, Production Services, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Tel: (914) 642-4474, Tieline 224-4474 danielk at us.ibm.com Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/persona/users/9/0/x/90MC212-P.html From john Sat Feb 28 06:38:31 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:38:31 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] march 3rd meeting, again. . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040228113831.GA2396@dancer> * G. Rosamond [20040227 11:04]: > locales to be hit: > obsd mailing lists misc at openbsd done. > deadly (john b) Done. It's up to Jose now. John From john Sat Feb 28 06:54:55 2004 From: john (John Bacalle) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 06:54:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] March 3rd meeting blurb Message-ID: <20040228115455.GA2467@dancer> * G. Rosamond [20040227 10:15]: > (this blurb is straight from the pen of roland) > > * * * * * * > > NYC BSD User Group March Meeting For those that are like me and don't want to reinvent the wheel, here's announcement ready-to-go text, html copy for pasting in any forum. John -------------- next part -------------- What: NYCBUG.org Monthly Meeting Topic: CryptoGraphic Disk Device (CGD) When: Wednesday, March 3rd, 7PM Where: The meeting will be held at the offices of SageSecure, LLC at 116 W. 23rd Street, west off 6th Avenue. Fifth floor. Who: Roland Dowdeswell Cost: Free and open to the public NYCBUG.org (pronounced nice-bug) New York City *BSD Users Group Introduced in the `NetBSD -current' source code tree and part of the upcoming 2.0 release, the CryptoGraphic Disk Device (CGD) provides cryptographic security for data stored on hard drives. The presentation will cover the following: 1. the high level design of CGD, 2. threat models, 3. comparison with both other cryptographic disk drivers and file systems, and 4. how to use CGD, and make sure that you are using it securely. For background information on CGD please refer to http://www.Imrryr.org/~elric/cgd/ For further meeting information visit http://www.nycbug.org/ . This meeting is free and open to the public. We kindly endorse the distribution of this announcement among your colleagues, and potential *BSD users. Thank you. -------------- next part --------------

The following is a New York City public service announcement from the New York City *BSD Users Group.

What:   NYCBUG.org Monthly Meeting
Topic:  CryptoGraphic Disk Device (CGD)
When:   Wednesday, March 3rd, 7PM
Where:  The meeting will be held at the offices of SageSecure, LLC at
        116 W. 23rd Street, west off 6th Avenue. Fifth floor.
Who:    Roland Dowdeswell
Cost:   Free and open to the public


                                 NYCBUG.org
                           (pronounced nice-bug)
                       New York City *BSD Users Group


        Introduced in the `NetBSD -current' source code tree and part of
        the upcoming 2.0 release, the CryptoGraphic Disk Device (CGD)
        provides cryptographic security for data stored on hard drives.
        The presentation will cover the following:

                1.  the high level design of CGD,
                2.  threat models,
                3.  comparison with both other cryptographic disk
                    drivers and file systems, and
                4.  how to use CGD, and make sure that you are
                    using it securely.

        For background information on CGD please refer to
                http://www.Imrryr.org/~elric/cgd/

        For further meeting information visit http://www.nycbug.org/ .

        This meeting is free and open to the public.


We kindly endorse the distribution of this announcement among your
colleagues, and potential *BSD users. Thank you.
From george Sat Feb 28 14:44:43 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:44:43 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdcan Message-ID: for those who haven't seen it yet, BSDCan has a revised www site. http://www.bsdcan.org/ as we've mentioned before, some of us are planning to caravan it to ottawa. we can start discussing in the upcoming months. dan has posted a copy of the brochure here: http://www.freebsddiary.org/advocacy/bsdcan-brouchure-non-folding.pdf (hope i wasn't cramping your style dan, by posting this. . .) g From dan Sat Feb 28 14:48:11 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:48:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] bsdcan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040228144707.L46136@xeon.unixathome.org> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: Yes, yes, you have cramped my style. Now I need to find a new style. ;) By all means, post it. Post often. FWIW, I am very happy with what my [newly found] webdesigner has created. -- Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Sun Feb 29 12:56:41 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:56:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday meeting Message-ID: it's been mentioned before, but it would be a good idea to have a organizational issues only pre-meeting for those interested on wednesday. items to discuss: logo (jeff) www site (michael) upcoming meetings thoughts? let's say 6:15 pm in the room at sage secure. . . g From lists Sun Feb 29 14:36:02 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:36:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040229143602.3adb077b.lists@genoverly.net> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:56:41 -0500 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > it's been mentioned before, but it would be a good idea to have a > organizational issues only pre-meeting for those interested on > wednesday. > > items to discuss: > > logo (jeff) > www site (michael) > upcoming meetings > > thoughts? > > let's say 6:15 pm in the room at sage secure. . . > Yikes, crackin' the whip on the web site, eh? I'm actually working on that now. But it is so beautiful out, I'm not sure how much longer I can last. I can be there early on Wednesday. Michael From george Sun Feb 29 23:27:16 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:27:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting Message-ID: this is the brief the discussion about roland's meeting on wednesday. http://deadly.org/article.php3?sid=20040229085659 anyone interested in digitally recording the meeting. . .?? g