From lists  Mon Mar  1 03:44:51 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:44:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] apple at nycbug meeting
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAHdgkxo6lxU6gPc1YUzSdzwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAHdgkxo6lxU6gPc1YUzSdzwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040301084428.C97172@zoraida.natserv.net>

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> at some point after that, apple will look to hold a saturday tech
> preview of their new server hardware at their manhattan location.

Count me in.



From lists  Mon Mar  1 03:49:21 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:49:21 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IRC. decision was made?
Message-ID: <20040301084800.N97172@zoraida.natserv.net>

Around Feb 10 there was some discussion about irc. I am catching up with
my reading and don't see any final decision on the irc subject.

Did we go with a new setup or with one of the existing networks?
I have never had much incentive to do much with irc, but this interests
me. :-)




From ike  Mon Mar  1 12:02:43 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:02:43 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA03wKTvRqN0mKnQ1narhDMgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA03wKTvRqN0mKnQ1narhDMgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>

Hey G, All,

On Feb 29, 2004, at 11:27 PM, G. Rosamond wrote:
> anyone interested in digitally recording the meeting. . .??

Yeah!  I can record the meeting, but I need someone to score me some 
MiniDV tapes, as I'm mad busy and a bit broke this week- (the tapes I 
guess would become property of NYCBUG etc...)

Anyhow, anyone downtown can score MiniDV tapes on canal st. easy, or 
around the midtown area at some electronics/camera shop...  I think 3 
would do for this meeting? (1 hr. record time each)

Rocket-
.ike




From pete  Mon Mar  1 12:11:01 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wednesday meeting
In-Reply-To: <20040229143602.3adb077b.lists@genoverly.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAGX3ukD5EGUK8eOIgX8GLSwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040229143602.3adb077b.lists@genoverly.net>
Message-ID: <40436EA5.8070609@nomadlogic.org>


>On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:56:41 -0500
>"G. Rosamond" <george at sddi.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>let's say 6:15 pm in the room at sage secure. . .
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
i'm interested in coming to an orginizational meeting, but my shift on 
weds is not supposed to end until 8:00, altho they let me go at 7 for 
the bug.  is there any interest in a post bug meeting?  if everyone is 
not into it then we should prolly keep it before the bug...
-pete



-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From pete  Mon Mar  1 12:12:21 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:12:21 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting
In-Reply-To: <41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA03wKTvRqN0mKnQ1narhDMgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <40436EF5.6070401@nomadlogic.org>

Isaac Levy wrote:

> Hey G, All,
>
> On Feb 29, 2004, at 11:27 PM, G. Rosamond wrote:
>
>> anyone interested in digitally recording the meeting. . .??
>
>
> Yeah!  I can record the meeting, but I need someone to score me some 
> MiniDV tapes, as I'm mad busy and a bit broke this week- (the tapes I 
> guess would become property of NYCBUG etc...)
>
i can definately get you MiniDV tapes from work...any specific type/format?

-pete

>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From aron  Mon Mar  1 12:14:31 2004
From: aron (Aron Roberts)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 12:14:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting
In-Reply-To: <41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA03wKTvRqN0mKnQ1narhDMgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <40436F77.2080002@slam.cc>

You can get MiniDV tapes at any Duane Reade

I'm back from the dead. :)


Isaac Levy wrote:

> Hey G, All,
>
> On Feb 29, 2004, at 11:27 PM, G. Rosamond wrote:
>
>> anyone interested in digitally recording the meeting. . .??
>
>
> Yeah!  I can record the meeting, but I need someone to score me some 
> MiniDV tapes, as I'm mad busy and a bit broke this week- (the tapes I 
> guess would become property of NYCBUG etc...)
>
> Anyhow, anyone downtown can score MiniDV tapes on canal st. easy, or 
> around the midtown area at some electronics/camera shop...  I think 3 
> would do for this meeting? (1 hr. record time each)
>
> Rocket-
> .ike
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk





From john  Mon Mar  1 20:59:11 2004
From: john (John Bacalle)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:59:11 -0500
Subject: OpenBSD Port (was: Re: [nycbug-talk] March 3rd meeting blurb)
In-Reply-To: <1567.162.83.161.98.1077894919.squirrel@mail.sddi.net>
References: <1567.162.83.161.98.1077894919.squirrel@mail.sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040302015911.GA11178@dancer>

* G. Rosamond <George at sddi.net> [20040227 10:15]:
> NYC BSD User Group March Meeting
> 
> The CryptoGraphic Disk Device

Someone brought this to my attention---of value for the OpenBSD crowd.
FYI.

        http://www.stanford.edu/~tedu/cgd.html

   John



From george  Mon Mar  1 21:56:15 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:56:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freesbie
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2SA63w8rlk+0le88N1zN9AEAAAAA@sddi.net>

i'm sure many of you saw the release of freesbie 1.0 from the italian
freebsd user group.  it's a bootable cd image of freebsd with xfce.

i played with it today and it booted very nice.  booted into x easily.
very impressed.  didn't pick up my dns servers via dhcp, but that was
the only thing i noticed.

they have two ftp servers which seem to be getting hammered right now,
so i'm in the process of downloading to our www server.

hopefully, the nycbug traffic can be avoided on their servers.

the file should be ready in about 4 hours.  when it's ready, you can
find the iso at:

www.nycbug.org/down/FreeBSIE-1.0-i386.iso

g




From george  Tue Mar  2 01:04:24 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:04:24 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAPc/gfBPIeEu167FuRzO8/gEAAAAA@sddi.net>

phew. . . 

download finally complete.

you can get it here:

http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso

i am going to notify the main site to let them know we're hosting this
image.

g




From ray  Tue Mar  2 04:57:00 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 04:57:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IRC. decision was made?
In-Reply-To: <20040301084800.N97172@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040301084800.N97172@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040302095700.GA5559@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 08:49:21AM +0000, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> Around Feb 10 there was some discussion about irc. I am catching up with
> my reading and don't see any final decision on the irc subject.
> 
> Did we go with a new setup or with one of the existing networks?
> I have never had much incentive to do much with irc, but this interests
> me. :-)

I like the SILC idea, but I don't agree with setting up our own
server, as Gerald has graciously done.  SILC has its own network,
I think we should use theirs.

But going with SILC may limit our audience.  Perhaps we can create
a page on how to access SILC?

-Ray-



From ray  Tue Mar  2 05:00:03 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:00:03 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freesbie
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2SA63w8rlk+0le88N1zN9AEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2SA63w8rlk+0le88N1zN9AEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 09:56:15PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
> they have two ftp servers which seem to be getting hammered right now,
> so i'm in the process of downloading to our www server.
> 
> hopefully, the nycbug traffic can be avoided on their servers.
> 
> the file should be ready in about 4 hours.  when it's ready, you can
> find the iso at:

Has anyone considered/tried using BitTorrent, which should solve
these sorts of problems?  Note: I don't use BitTorrent, only read
of it.

-Ray-



From dan  Tue Mar  2 09:06:26 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:06:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAPc/gfBPIeEu167FuRzO8/gEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <40444E92.7533.85CD08FF@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2004 at 1:04, G. Rosamond wrote:

> phew. . . 
> 
> download finally complete.
> 
> you can get it here:
> 
> http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
> 
> i am going to notify the main site to let them know we're hosting this
> image.

Don't tell them just yet.  ;)

$ fetch http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
fetch: http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso: Operation 
timed out

And I can't get to the website via http either.
-- 
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/




From hans  Tue Mar  2 09:38:51 2004
From: hans (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:38:51 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87C02BC8@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org 
> [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Dan Langille
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:06 AM
> To: G. Rosamond
> Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
> 
> On 2 Mar 2004 at 1:04, G. Rosamond wrote:
> 
> > phew. . . 
> > 
> > download finally complete.
> > 
> > you can get it here:
> > 
> > http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
> > 
> > i am going to notify the main site to let them know we're hosting
this
> > image.
> 
> Don't tell them just yet.  ;)

We already did... it saturated a DS-3.

> $ fetch http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
> fetch: http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso: Operation 
> timed out

I'm looking to move it to a backbone box so I'll see if I can get the
ISO back online.

> And I can't get to the website via http either.

The regular website is fine now (port 80 was being filtered, obviously).

H




From george  Tue Mar  2 10:24:32 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:24:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87C02BC8@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAENR0Eyy0aUemsyTLAiE2hwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 
>> > i am going to notify the main site to let them know we're hosting
>this
>> > image.
>> 
>> Don't tell them just yet.  ;)
>
>We already did... it saturated a DS-3.
>
>> $ fetch http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
>> fetch: http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso: Operation 
>> timed out
>
>I'm looking to move it to a backbone box so I'll see if I can get the
>ISO back online.
>
>> And I can't get to the website via http either.
>
>The regular website is fine now (port 80 was being filtered, 
>obviously).

woah. . .

g




From george  Tue Mar  2 10:24:32 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:24:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
In-Reply-To: <40444E92.7533.85CD08FF@localhost>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAFJh9lhC/2EmBr7ViOK0fFQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Langille [mailto:dan at langille.org] 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:06 AM
>To: G. Rosamond
>Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org
>Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] FreeSBIE 1.0
>
>On 2 Mar 2004 at 1:04, G. Rosamond wrote:
>
>> phew. . . 
>> 
>> download finally complete.
>> 
>> you can get it here:
>> 
>> http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
>> 
>> i am going to notify the main site to let them know we're 
>hosting this
>> image.
>
>Don't tell them just yet.  ;)
>
>$ fetch http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso
>fetch: http://www.nycbug.org/down/FreeSBIE-1.0-i386.iso: Operation 
>timed out
>
>And I can't get to the website via http either.

yeah, we got hosed. . .working with hans on this right now. . .

gee, i thought bsd was dead.  ;-)

g




From george  Tue Mar  2 10:39:27 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:39:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freesbie
In-Reply-To: <20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAuDtj/QQGZU+XYkOxCvMwygEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 09:56:15PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
>> they have two ftp servers which seem to be getting hammered 
>right now,
>> so i'm in the process of downloading to our www server.
>> 
>> hopefully, the nycbug traffic can be avoided on their servers.
>> 
>> the file should be ready in about 4 hours.  when it's ready, you can
>> find the iso at:
>
>Has anyone considered/tried using BitTorrent, which should solve
>these sorts of problems?  Note: I don't use BitTorrent, only read
>of it.

that's a good idea ray. . .we're investigating now. . . .

thanks

g




From pete  Tue Mar  2 13:02:27 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:02:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freesbie
In-Reply-To: <20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2SA63w8rlk+0le88N1zN9AEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <4044CC33.6070409@nomadlogic.org>

Ray wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 09:56:15PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
>  
>
>>they have two ftp servers which seem to be getting hammered right now,
>>so i'm in the process of downloading to our www server.
>>
>>hopefully, the nycbug traffic can be avoided on their servers.
>>
>>the file should be ready in about 4 hours.  when it's ready, you can
>>find the iso at:
>>    
>>
>
>Has anyone considered/tried using BitTorrent, which should solve
>these sorts of problems?  Note: I don't use BitTorrent, only read
>of it.
>
>  
>
BitTorrent is very nice in specific situations, i.e. when there are 
*lots* of people trying to get the same file.  i've found that when 
getting ISO's of the net the best through-put rates happen usually hours 
after the initital annoucement, then by a week's time or so not many 
people keep thier bittorrent apps running and hence the through-put goes 
down drastically.  all in all though, i've been able to max out my 
cable-modem connection with bittorrent...which is nice ;)


-pete


>-Ray-
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>  
>


-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From jschauma  Tue Mar  2 18:10:29 2004
From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:10:29 -0500
Subject: NetBSD 1.6.2 via bittorrent (was: [nycbug-talk] freesbie)
In-Reply-To: <20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2SA63w8rlk+0le88N1zN9AEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040302100003.GB5559@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <20040302231029.GC8911@netmeister.org>

Ray <ray at cyth.net> wrote:
 
> Has anyone considered/tried using BitTorrent, which should solve
> these sorts of problems?  Note: I don't use BitTorrent, only read
> of it.

On that note...

http://www.netbsd.org/Changes/index.html#netbsd-1.6.2

We now have, for the first time and still experimental, some bittorrent
images available.  See
http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/netbsd-users/2004/03/02/0016.html for
details.

Yummie!

-Jan

-- 
Life," said Marvin, "don't talk to me about life."
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From ike  Wed Mar  3 14:24:13 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:24:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting
In-Reply-To: <40436EF5.6070401@nomadlogic.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA03wKTvRqN0mKnQ1narhDMgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<41B30178-6BA2-11D8-B534-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>
	<40436EF5.6070401@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <5AF2F37E-6D48-11D8-906E-0050E4CEB514@lesmuug.org>

Hi Pete,

On Mar 1, 2004, at 12:12 PM, Pete Wright wrote:

> i can definately get you MiniDV tapes from work...any specific 
> type/format?
>
> -pete

SWEET.  Any MiniDV format tapes are fine- the fancy ones with the 
timecode stuff, fairly unnecessary, I'm a freak with timecode based 
logging, so the cheap/plain tapes are totally fine.

Thanks!

Rocket-
.ike




From george  Thu Mar  4 12:32:26 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:32:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cgd Meeting
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAxk+N87EHCUCyDkFbUETgSQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

Roland's cryptographic disk driver meeting last night was a success.
There were some 43 people in attendance.  Discussion was enlightening.
Ike managed to video most of it, which we'll get on line soon, and Felix
took some good pictures.

Roland will be providing the slides, but if you go to the past events
section of nycbug.org, you can find the link for the pdf of his paper.

We need to find another space for the next meeting.  It seems that
they've rented out the room at SageSecure, and we may be unable to use
in the future.  If anyone has any leads, please get back to me asap.  We
would want a room that fits up to 50.

g




From jesse  Thu Mar  4 13:03:53 2004
From: jesse (jc)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:03:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Verizon's SMTP policy
Message-ID: <003501c40213$0ddf51f0$69fea8c0@noc2>

Max,

 This is Jesse from the end of the bar. I don't have your email... please send me a note off-list re: Verizon's SMTP policy as I don't think I understood what you were implying. They are fingerprinting SMTP servers' helo? Or was the concern their ability/right/obligation to tap due to Patriot Act? I'm not concerned with the former, and am with the latter. I apologize to the list, as this doesn't directly concern nycbug. Anyone can feel free to respond to me at my email address.

Jesse
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From george  Thu Mar  4 16:54:19 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:54:19 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Linux Cryptoloop
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAc4spOHIiT0qxYXjSbsMnEAEAAAAA@sddi.net>

Last night, Roland made reference to Linux's Cryptoloop.

Apparently, it's been dropped.

http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2433




From George  Thu Mar  4 23:37:43 2004
From: George (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:37:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [Fwd: Re: Greetings. . .]
Message-ID: <1238.162.84.136.3.1078461463.squirrel@mail.sddi.net>

fyi all. . .the OnLamp writer, and author of the Absolute BSD books. . .

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Greetings. . .
From: "G. Rosamond" <George at sddi.net>
Date: Thu, March 4, 2004 11:36 pm
To: <mwlucas at blackhelicopters.org>


A wise person once said. . . Michael W. Lucas
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for the invite, I appreciate the thought.
>
> I may actually be in NYC in August, if I can get tickets for the
> Current93 show there.  I won't know until they announce the dates,
> though.  Can't promise anything, but I must admit that if I can make
> this a "business trip" (i.e., tax-deductible) by doing a presentation
> it would a lot more likely.  ;-)

Michael. . .that would be great.  Keep us informed.  We'll try to hook up
with you at BSDCan.

> I'll let you know when I'm going to be in town.

Great.

Stay in touch.

g





From pete  Fri Mar  5 10:40:32 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:40:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
Message-ID: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>

hey all,
    I've just booked a flight to BSDcan this may.  Is anyone else in the 
nycbug going?  I am currently looking to get a room campus, and it looks 
like there might be a chance to get a group discount on housing if we 
book...as a group.  go figure.  Anyway, I found plane tix from LGA to 
Ottawa for about $230 round trip.  The flight isn't that long, about an 
hour and a half, and i think to drive is about 6 hours according to a 
friend.  So what's the rest of the BUG up to?


-pete

-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From george  Fri Mar  5 10:45:35 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:45:35 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
In-Reply-To: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAASDsnYJDlqUGQwPQ7R4dVXwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org 
>[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Pete Wright
>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:41 AM
>To: NYC Bug List
>Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
>
>hey all,
>    I've just booked a flight to BSDcan this may.  Is anyone 
>else in the 
>nycbug going?  I am currently looking to get a room campus, 
>and it looks 
>like there might be a chance to get a group discount on housing if we 
>book...as a group.  go figure.  Anyway, I found plane tix from LGA to 
>Ottawa for about $230 round trip.  The flight isn't that long, 
>about an 
>hour and a half, and i think to drive is about 6 hours according to a 
>friend.  So what's the rest of the BUG up to?
>
>
>-pete

woah.  nice pete.

i think i'm going to drive.  i think i have the passengers already, but
i may have a spot open.

it's a *smoking* car though. . .

does someone want to be centrally involved in keeping track of who wants
to go, sorting out housing, etc?  other than dan, of course.

g




From dan  Fri Mar  5 10:46:39 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:46:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
In-Reply-To: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>
References: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20040305104435.K27684@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Pete Wright wrote:

> hey all,
>     I've just booked a flight to BSDcan this may.  Is anyone else in the
> nycbug going?  I am currently looking to get a room campus, and it looks
> like there might be a chance to get a group discount on housing if we
> book...as a group.  go figure.

Have you talked to campus housing already?  If so, please let me know what
they tell you.  Let them know you are booking as part of BSDCan.


> Anyway, I found plane tix from LGA to
> Ottawa for about $230 round trip.  The flight isn't that long, about an
> hour and a half, and i think to drive is about 6 hours according to a
> friend.  So what's the rest of the BUG up to?

More like 7 hours.  I did it pretty fast when returning from LWE.

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From pete  Fri Mar  5 10:49:57 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:49:57 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
In-Reply-To: <20040305104435.K27684@xeon.unixathome.org>
References: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040305104435.K27684@xeon.unixathome.org>
Message-ID: <4048A1A5.6030401@nomadlogic.org>

Dan Langille wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Pete Wright wrote:
>
>  
>
>>hey all,
>>    I've just booked a flight to BSDcan this may.  Is anyone else in the
>>nycbug going?  I am currently looking to get a room campus, and it looks
>>like there might be a chance to get a group discount on housing if we
>>book...as a group.  go figure.
>>    
>>
>
>Have you talked to campus housing already?  If so, please let me know what
>they tell you.  Let them know you are booking as part of BSDCan.
>
>  
>
yea, jesse the guy i'm going up with, mentioned that we will be at 
BSDCan.  We'll be sure to post any responses to the list.  it looks like 
it'll be about $60can for a 2 bed room per night...not too bad, but a 
group rate might be nice ;)

-pete




-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From dan  Fri Mar  5 10:50:22 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:50:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAASDsnYJDlqUGQwPQ7R4dVXwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAASDsnYJDlqUGQwPQ7R4dVXwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040305104954.A27684@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> does someone want to be centrally involved in keeping track of who wants
> to go, sorting out housing, etc?  other than dan, of course.

Yes, I'd love to do that but I'm too busy monitoring mailing lists.  ;)

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From dan  Fri Mar  5 10:52:51 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:52:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCAN
In-Reply-To: <4048A1A5.6030401@nomadlogic.org>
References: <40489F70.4090001@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040305104435.K27684@xeon.unixathome.org>
	<4048A1A5.6030401@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20040305105158.V27684@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Pete Wright wrote:

> yea, jesse the guy i'm going up with, mentioned that we will be at
> BSDCan.  We'll be sure to post any responses to the list.  it looks like
> it'll be about $60can for a 2 bed room per night...not too bad, but a
> group rate might be nice ;)

Investigate Les Suites.  Four beds (one is a pull-out sofa).  You each get
your own bed, for about US$35 a night.  It's about two blocks from the
Conference.

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From elric  Fri Mar  5 14:45:18 2004
From: elric (Roland C. Dowdeswell)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:45:18 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop
Message-ID: <20040305194518.F2130174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>

On 1078437259 seconds since the Beginning of the UNIX epoch
"G. Rosamond" wrote:
>
>Last night, Roland made reference to Linux's Cryptoloop.
>
>Apparently, it's been dropped.
>
>http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2433

Okay, so in my paper I make a couple of assertions about cryptoloop
such as it is vulnerable to offline dictionary attacks.  Apparently,
I did read the code before I wrote that a couple of years ago.  It
looks like Linux has a couple of additional crypto disks that I
either missed or perhaps they've been written since then which do
not have this vulnerability.

A little more reading of cryptoloop and some of the posts surrounding
it show that it is even less secure than OpenBSD's vnd+crypto device
(which is also vulnerable to offline dictionary attacks) in that
the IV that they choose is dependent only on the contents of the
block which allows certain kinds of structural analysis to be
performed.  Specifically mentioned in some of the posts there would
be a `watermark attack' where an adversary can construct files such
that he can detect if you have them.  E.g., the RIAA could construct
mp3's and still find them on a cryptoloop disk.

CGD has never had any such obvious weaknesses, and loop-AES, e.g.,
looks like it has addressed all of these issues.

--
    Roland Dowdeswell			http://www.imrryr.org/~elric/



From elric  Fri Mar  5 14:46:25 2004
From: elric (Roland C. Dowdeswell)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:46:25 -0500
Subject: OpenBSD Port (was: Re: [nycbug-talk] March 3rd meeting blurb) 
Message-ID: <20040305194625.0CF23174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>

On 1078192751 seconds since the Beginning of the UNIX epoch
John Bacalle wrote:
>

>Someone brought this to my attention---of value for the OpenBSD crowd.
>FYI.
>
>        http://www.stanford.edu/~tedu/cgd.html

I am actually quite surprised that CGD has not been imported into
the main OpenBSD tree, as they have nothing comparable.

--
    Roland Dowdeswell                      http://www.Imrryr.ORG/~elric/



From pete  Fri Mar  5 16:39:49 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:39:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop
In-Reply-To: <20040305194518.F2130174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>
References: <20040305194518.F2130174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>
Message-ID: <4048F3A5.5000302@nomadlogic.org>

Roland C. Dowdeswell wrote:

>On 1078437259 seconds since the Beginning of the UNIX epoch
>"G. Rosamond" wrote:
>  
>
>>Last night, Roland made reference to Linux's Cryptoloop.
>>
>>Apparently, it's been dropped.
>>
>>http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/2433
>>    
>>
>
>Okay, so in my paper I make a couple of assertions about cryptoloop
>such as it is vulnerable to offline dictionary attacks.  Apparently,
>I did read the code before I wrote that a couple of years ago.  It
>looks like Linux has a couple of additional crypto disks that I
>either missed or perhaps they've been written since then which do
>not have this vulnerability.
>
>A little more reading of cryptoloop and some of the posts surrounding
>it show that it is even less secure than OpenBSD's vnd+crypto device
>(which is also vulnerable to offline dictionary attacks) in that
>the IV that they choose is dependent only on the contents of the
>block which allows certain kinds of structural analysis to be
>performed.  Specifically mentioned in some of the posts there would
>be a `watermark attack' where an adversary can construct files such
>that he can detect if you have them.  E.g., the RIAA could construct
>mp3's and still find them on a cryptoloop disk.
>
>CGD has never had any such obvious weaknesses, and loop-AES, e.g.,
>looks like it has addressed all of these issues.
>
>--
>    Roland Dowdeswell			http://www.imrryr.org/~elric/
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>  
>
roland how do you feel about dm-cryp then?

http://www.saout.de/misc/dm-crypt/

i know the linux kernel hackers always felt that crypto-loop was always 
a bad hack, at best.  from what i understand, which isn't much regarding 
crypt. honestly, dm-crypt is supposed to address many of the problems 
with crypto-loop.


-pete

-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From elric  Fri Mar  5 17:29:47 2004
From: elric (Roland C. Dowdeswell)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:29:47 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:39:49 EST."
	<4048F3A5.5000302@nomadlogic.org> 
Message-ID: <20040305222947.A8B82174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>

On 1078522789 seconds since the Beginning of the UNIX epoch
Pete Wright wrote:
>

>roland how do you feel about dm-cryp then?
>
>http://www.saout.de/misc/dm-crypt/
>
>i know the linux kernel hackers always felt that crypto-loop was always 
>a bad hack, at best.  from what i understand, which isn't much regarding 
>crypt. honestly, dm-crypt is supposed to address many of the problems 
>with crypto-loop.

Well, I just went to the link you posted and, well, given only a
few minutes of looking around it is not exactly apparent what they
are actually doing.  It looks rather poorly documented, all in all.
But, from some chasing around:

They use hashalot to generate the key from a passphrase and it is
just a simple hash or a salted hash rather than an industry standard
passphrase->key algorithm such as PKCS#5 PBKDF2 (which I use in
CGD.)  I do not understand exactly why everyone feels it is necessary
to play amateur cryptographer when there are accepted ways to do
these things that have been scrutinised by people who actually
understand the issues involved.  This is actually a rather large
pet peeve of mine, I mean if you presume that you know better than
professional cryptographers how to turn a passphrase into a key
then why don't you just write your own crypto algorithms, too? So,
to make a long story short, the hashalot method is vulnerable to
dictionary attack.

It looks like it might be possible to get it to do the right thing,
but only if you put substantial effort into setting it up and know
what you are doing.  This is, IMO, an unacceptable burden to place
on users.  On the other hand, I also get the impression that the
work is not anything near complete so perhaps some of these issues
will be addressed in the course of time.

I might make a few more comments later.

--
    Roland Dowdeswell                      http://www.Imrryr.ORG/~elric/



From george  Fri Mar  5 20:23:23 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:23:23 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop 
In-Reply-To: <20040305222947.A8B82174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAmN/CEIj5jEGzODw6V0URygEAAAAA@sddi.net>

Roland said. . .

>They use hashalot to generate the key from a passphrase and it is
>just a simple hash or a salted hash rather than an industry standard
>passphrase->key algorithm such as PKCS#5 PBKDF2 (which I use in
>CGD.)  I do not understand exactly why everyone feels it is necessary
>to play amateur cryptographer when there are accepted ways to do
>these things that have been scrutinised by people who actually
>understand the issues involved.  This is actually a rather large
>pet peeve of mine, I mean if you presume that you know better than
>professional cryptographers how to turn a passphrase into a key
>then why don't you just write your own crypto algorithms, too? So,
>to make a long story short, the hashalot method is vulnerable to
>dictionary attack.

there's a real irony in what Roland's stating.  i agree with you very
strongly.

i haven't thoroughly read their documents, even though i submitted the
link, but i do know that one area where free versus closed source is an
enormous debate is in cryptography.

(i'm not a cryptographer, have read a bit of Schneier, and maybe passed
two math classes in my life, but i think i can say a few basic things. .
. but it's all IMHO)

lots of vendors claim they have THE algorithm, but they can't reveal it,
as it would impede its security status.  but the only legitimate way to
qualify an encryption algorithm is to actually put it up to scrutiny.  i
know this has been tested time and time again.  hidden algorithms are
weak algorithms.

the same goes for standard practices in encryption.  amateurs are not in
a position to do ground-breaking work in cryptography.  there's no
recreating the wheel.  the true cryptographers of the world are a true
elite.  it would confuse me to think that a piece of linux software,
even one considered beta, would ignore the cryptography standard
practices.  more than most areas, cryptographers stand on their
predecessors' shoulders.  it is an area that improves over time.

it would seem to me the starting point for open source software
developers would be to look at the open source model of the cryptography
world.

g




From george  Fri Mar  5 20:30:25 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:30:25 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] apple history
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2KXGjoM530OZjW7VdiasaQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

this might be useful for the next meeting. . .

http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/oshistory/




From felix  Fri Mar  5 05:31:11 2004
From: felix (felix zaslavskiy)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 05:31:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAmN/CEIj5jEGzODw6V0URygEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <20040305222947.A8B82174D2@arioch.imrryr.org>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAmN/CEIj5jEGzODw6V0URygEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040305053111.79d09a93.felix@students.poly.edu>


> Roland said. . .
> 
> >They use hashalot to generate the key from a passphrase and it is
> >just a simple hash or a salted hash rather than an industry standard
> >passphrase->key algorithm such as PKCS#5 PBKDF2 (which I use in
> >CGD.)  I do not understand exactly why everyone feels it is necessary
> >to play amateur cryptographer when there are accepted ways to do
> >these things that have been scrutinised by people who actually
> >understand the issues involved.  This is actually a rather large
> >pet peeve of mine, I mean if you presume that you know better than
> >professional cryptographers how to turn a passphrase into a key
> >then why don't you just write your own crypto algorithms, too? 

Lets just use lanman hash.




-- 
felix[at]bebinary.com
http://www.zaslavskiy.net/




From george  Fri Mar  5 22:18:55 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:18:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop
In-Reply-To: <20040305053111.79d09a93.felix@students.poly.edu>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAdi0AzMhkK0+Xko6DecOOegEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org 
>[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of felix zaslavskiy
>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:31 AM
>To: talk at lists.nycbug.org
>Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Re: Linux Cryptoloop
>
>
>> Roland said. . .
>> 
>> >They use hashalot to generate the key from a passphrase and it is
>> >just a simple hash or a salted hash rather than an industry standard
>> >passphrase->key algorithm such as PKCS#5 PBKDF2 (which I use in
>> >CGD.)  I do not understand exactly why everyone feels it is 
>necessary
>> >to play amateur cryptographer when there are accepted ways to do
>> >these things that have been scrutinised by people who actually
>> >understand the issues involved.  This is actually a rather large
>> >pet peeve of mine, I mean if you presume that you know better than
>> >professional cryptographers how to turn a passphrase into a key
>> >then why don't you just write your own crypto algorithms, too? 
>
>Lets just use lanman hash.

or just Caesarian-style transpostion.

g




From george  Fri Mar  5 22:34:48 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:34:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

There's been an interesting (but often very tangental) discussion on
FreeBSD's Advocacy list about a 'want list' that aims to expand the
usability and audience of FreeBSD.  It's obviously not just a FreeBSD
discussion, but more generally applicable.

It's understood that the BSD family is not aiming to replace Win32 on
the desktop; that's never been any of the projects' goals.  You want BSD
on the desktop?  Try OS X.

One of the early comments was regarding installers.  Certainly, it's an
often referred to issue for many outside of the BSD world, but it seems
rather silly to have a problem with NetBSD or FreeBSD's installers.  And
I think it's clear that the OpenBSD project isn't interested in catering
to those even unfamiliar with disk partitions.  ;-)

However, this seems a bit strange to me.  I've watched the changes in
the FreeBSD installer for years now, and while it's not a graphical user
interface, it's as clear as day and very straight-forward.  Not to
mention the improved clarity if one actually makes an attempt to browse
the FreeBSD Handbook.  Although I'm clearly biased about it, it's *got*
to be easier than RedHat Linux's installer, at least if you *know* what
you want to build with the install.

Until a few months ago, I literally hadn't installed RedHat since 1998.
When I tried it out again, I found it a bit overwhelming.  I wanted to
setup a box, not grind coffee, churn butter and take out the laundry.
There was too much in the install to the point that I wasn't sure if I
was going to have a box on the reboot or a housekeeper.

It seems clear to me that an installer doesn't have to be a gui to be
easy to use.

Other issues included the availability of desktop applications.  Maybe
the querying party doesn't know that the BSD's often run Linux apps
quite well, but it seems to me the real point they are trying to make
with both comments is that none of the BSD's provide a simple, fully
constructed workstation or desktop without the tinkering and knowledge
of the various packages.

Thoughts?

g




From jesse  Sat Mar  6 00:00:52 2004
From: jesse (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:00:52 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <40495B04.6050906@theholymountain.com>

G. Rosamond wrote:

> There's been an interesting (but often very tangental) discussion on
> FreeBSD's Advocacy list about a 'want list' that aims to expand the
> usability and audience of FreeBSD.  It's obviously not just a FreeBSD
> discussion, but more generally applicable.
> 
> It's understood that the BSD family is not aiming to replace Win32 on
> the desktop; that's never been any of the projects' goals.  You want BSD
> on the desktop?  Try OS X.
> 
> One of the early comments was regarding installers.  Certainly, it's an
> often referred to issue for many outside of the BSD world, but it seems
> rather silly to have a problem with NetBSD or FreeBSD's installers.  And
> I think it's clear that the OpenBSD project isn't interested in catering
> to those even unfamiliar with disk partitions.  ;-)
> 
> However, this seems a bit strange to me.  I've watched the changes in
> the FreeBSD installer for years now, and while it's not a graphical user
> interface, it's as clear as day and very straight-forward.  Not to
> mention the improved clarity if one actually makes an attempt to browse
> the FreeBSD Handbook.  Although I'm clearly biased about it, it's *got*
> to be easier than RedHat Linux's installer, at least if you *know* what
> you want to build with the install.
> 
> Until a few months ago, I literally hadn't installed RedHat since 1998.
> When I tried it out again, I found it a bit overwhelming.  I wanted to
> setup a box, not grind coffee, churn butter and take out the laundry.
> There was too much in the install to the point that I wasn't sure if I
> was going to have a box on the reboot or a housekeeper.
> 
> It seems clear to me that an installer doesn't have to be a gui to be
> easy to use.
> 
> Other issues included the availability of desktop applications.  Maybe
> the querying party doesn't know that the BSD's often run Linux apps
> quite well, but it seems to me the real point they are trying to make
> with both comments is that none of the BSD's provide a simple, fully
> constructed workstation or desktop without the tinkering and knowledge
> of the various packages.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


1- RedHat says nothing about a BIOS vs. direct probe of the disk conflict.

2- You can set up soft raid wicked easy on RH. Am I missing the vinum 
config in the installer or is it not there? This leads to ...

3- Navigation is ok if you read the handbook, otherwise it sucks. I'd 
like a status bar at the top telling me where in the decision tree I am.

The RedHat installer does freeze up sometimes, in this version and 
others. These are supposedly stable releases.

The FreeBSD installer is nice and flexible with the Options. In a pinch 
you can futz with the release tag etc to get packages installed. I don't 
know if this is recommended or incredibly stupid or what, but I've done 
it. No CD burner and my floppies got wet... oh wow! Here's another 
floppy! Great!!! I only have some old CD-1.

Jesse








From ray  Sat Mar  6 02:12:05 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 02:12:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 10:34:48PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
> I think it's clear that the OpenBSD project isn't interested in catering
> to those even unfamiliar with disk partitions.  ;-)
> 
> However, this seems a bit strange to me.  I've watched the changes in
> the FreeBSD installer for years now, and while it's not a graphical user
> interface, it's as clear as day and very straight-forward.  Not to

I personall feel that the OpenBSD installer is clear as day and
very straight-forward.  It's all about familiarity.  Any operating
system that I've installed several times I can handle almost
blindfolded--give me something new and I'll spot its weaknesses,
complain about it a bit, but after a couple of tries I'll feel right
at home.

Until we have an installer than a true newbie can install like a
pro, we really don't have a good installer.  I would say that the
Windows 2000 installer was awesome simply because I installed it
without any problems and didn't have any questions as to what was
what the first time I installed it.  Of course, I completely disagree
with what choices it made for me in regard to all the enabled
services.

-Ray-



From cistalk  Sun Mar  7 00:51:42 2004
From: cistalk (Az)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:51:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD books for admins
Message-ID: <002401c40408$446b2ae0$6400a8c0@a0>

Hi all
i wanted to buy some books for unix system administration ( multiuser
access, MTA,firewalls, scripting,creating shares,workgroups  etc), is there
anybody who can say something about the following books  or recommend some
other ones ?
 i am new in *nix's  world and  was using freebsd 5.1 in cli mode for a last
2-3 months only.
i need the books  that will teach me  how to do all that stuff  in cli not
gui.

Unix Shell Programming, Third Edition
Publisher: SAMS; 3rd edition (February 27, 2003)
ISBN: 0672324903
by Stephen Kochan (Author), Patrick Wood (Author)


Absolute BSD: The Ultimate Guide to FreeBSD
by Michael Lucas, Jordan Hubbard
1886411743

Absolute OpenBSD: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid
by Michael Lucas,
Publisher: No Starch Press; (June 2003)
ISBN: 1886411999




From george  Sun Mar  7 00:55:42 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:55:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD books for admins
In-Reply-To: <002401c40408$446b2ae0$6400a8c0@a0>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAUTxPl6mhg0mKfmSQYh71qwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org 
>[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Az
>Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 12:52 AM
>To: nycbug.org nyc freebsd list
>Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD books for admins
>
>Hi all
>i wanted to buy some books for unix system administration ( multiuser
>access, MTA,firewalls, scripting,creating shares,workgroups  
>etc), is there
>anybody who can say something about the following books  or 
>recommend some
>other ones ?
> i am new in *nix's  world and  was using freebsd 5.1 in cli 
>mode for a last
>2-3 months only.
>i need the books  that will teach me  how to do all that stuff 
> in cli not
>gui.

the best bookstore in nyc is Computer Book Works at 78 Reade Street by
City Hall.

good discounts, good people.

it's between broadway and church streets.

i know the two absolute *bsd books very well, and both are brilliant.

make sure you check the errata's online. . .no starch press'
proofreaders are weak.

g




From lists  Sun Mar  7 07:47:27 2004
From: lists (michael)
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:47:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD books for admins
In-Reply-To: <002401c40408$446b2ae0$6400a8c0@a0>
References: <002401c40408$446b2ae0$6400a8c0@a0>
Message-ID: <20040307074727.25302e6c.lists@genoverly.net>

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:51:42 -0500
"Az" <cistalk at experiencedstudents.com> wrote:

> Hi all
> i wanted to buy some books for unix system administration ( multiuser
> access, MTA,firewalls, scripting,creating shares,workgroups  etc), is >
>  i am new in *nix's  world and  was using freebsd 5.1 in cli mode for 

Your question sounds broad, so I'll hit it with broad strokes.  

If there was ever a one-stop-shop for knowledge in freebsd it would be the FreeBSD Handbook.  In addistion to No Starch items you mentioned, I also liked The Complete FreeBSD, Fourth Edition by Greg Lehey.  Once you understand the OS and what comes with it you can branch out into application specific reading... when you pick the apps you want to run.  
Email for example; you mentioned system administration so, while reading technical white papers on internet mail protocols would really benefit you, a book on Postfix or Sendmail may be better to learn the app.

There are a lot of experts on the list that can better recommend reading on security and firewalls than I could.

Also keep in mind, your system came with a manual in the 'man pages'.  Believe it or not this is frequently the first place I turn when I want to learn.  Many would argue you should read those too.

Reading books is good for learning, I'm a reader.  But never underestimate the power of learning by doing and learning by making mistakes.

NOTE: I visited you website, if you want to contribute your 'lessons learned' to the NYCBUG Library, just let us know.
Michael

-- 



From pete  Mon Mar  8 10:13:32 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:13:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>

Ray wrote:

>
>Until we have an installer than a true newbie can install like a
>pro, we really don't have a good installer.  I would say that the
>Windows 2000 installer was awesome simply because I installed it
>without any problems and didn't have any questions as to what was
>what the first time I installed it.  Of course, I completely disagree
>with what choices it made for me in regard to all the enabled
>services.
>  
>

<rant>not to start a religious war, but i really can't stand the Win2k, 
XP etc. installers.  I see no reason why i should have reboot about 4 
times to get a basic desktop system, then have to reboot another 4-6 
times to just get the thing OK to run on a network.</rant> 
Sorry, had to vent that...on a similar note, you all might be interested 
in a discussion that Debian is having regarding this issue.  The default 
installer is a basic curses affair, easy to use and *very* flexible.  
There is alot of disscussion going on there now regarding a new 
installation framework.  Basicly, they think a more modular installer 
that would allow people to create new frontends w/o changin the basic 
back-end functionality is thier goal from what i understand.  I'm not 
sure if any BSD needs a new installer or anything like that, but it 
seems pretty related.

-pete


>-Ray-
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>  
>


-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
email:  pete at nomadlogic.org
mobile: 917.415.9866
web:    www.nomadlogic.org/~pete




From ray  Mon Mar  8 19:48:43 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:48:43 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:13:32AM -0500, Pete Wright wrote:
> <rant>not to start a religious war, but i really can't stand the Win2k, 
> XP etc. installers.  I see no reason why i should have reboot about 4 
> times to get a basic desktop system, then have to reboot another 4-6 
> times to just get the thing OK to run on a network.</rant> 

I'm not sure what you're talking about.  In my experience, booting
a Windows 2000 CD and installing from there requires one reboot,
at the end of the installation.  After rebooting, DHCP is already
set up.  Of course, I'm just talking about the installation from
the viewpoint of a newbie.  The base Windows 2000 installation is
simply a security hazard.

-Ray-



From jesse  Mon Mar  8 20:42:00 2004
From: jesse (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:42:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <404D20E8.9090404@theholymountain.com>


> On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:13:32AM -0500, Pete Wright wrote:
> 
>><rant>not to start a religious war, but i really can't stand the Win2k, 
>>XP etc. installers.  I see no reason why i should have reboot about 4 
>>times to get a basic desktop system, then have to reboot another 4-6 
>>times to just get the thing OK to run on a network.</rant> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you're talking about.  In my experience, booting
> a Windows 2000 CD and installing from there requires one reboot,
> at the end of the installation.  After rebooting, DHCP is already
> set up.  Of course, I'm just talking about the installation from
> the viewpoint of a newbie.  The base Windows 2000 installation is
> simply a security hazard.
> 
> -Ray-

Yeah, the ethernet card doesn't get activated until you visit the 
ActiveX Development Center hotpage which has to broadcast your genetic 
code over FM radio to a Licensed MS-License Tech. OF course there's the 
$37 fee to MS for the rights to broadcast one's own genetic code for one 
event with one or many special Active listeners.

All-in-all it's MIND NUMBINGLY boring to install win2k, but this is 
considered a feature. There's a lot more being said about the BSD 
installer. It's good that there's already a much greater discussion on 
just this issue. I've stated my little whining points previously.

I'd like to see installers being released just like any other app. Your 
stuck with the default FreeBSD installer if you want the very latest OS. 
But +1-2 days you could have all of your favorite installers ported to it.





From jesse  Mon Mar  8 21:10:53 2004
From: jesse (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:10:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <404D20E8.9090404@theholymountain.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>	<20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404D20E8.9090404@theholymountain.com>
Message-ID: <404D27AD.5010003@theholymountain.com>


> All-in-all it's MIND NUMBINGLY boring to install win2k, but this is 
> considered a feature. There's a lot more being said about the BSD 
> installer. It's good that there's already a much greater discussion on 
> just this issue. I've stated my little whining points previously.
> 

and yes, it would take a lot more to get it going if it were to be secure.

> I'd like to see installers being released just like any other app. Your 
> stuck with the default FreeBSD installer if you want the very latest OS. 
> But +1-2 days you could have all of your favorite installers ported to it.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From mspitze1  Tue Mar  9 00:28:44 2004
From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:28:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <404D20E8.9090404@theholymountain.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404D20E8.9090404@theholymountain.com>
Message-ID: <20040309002844.1ae4b720@bogomips.optonline.net>

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:42:00 -0500
Jesse Callaway <jesse at theholymountain.com> wrote:

> I'd like to see installers being released just like any other app.
> Your stuck with the default FreeBSD installer if you want the very
> latest OS. But +1-2 days you could have all of your favorite
> installers ported to it.

NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!  Word processors went through this in the 90's and it
was a real bad idea.  Or another way to look at it is installing linux,
which one?  Suse, Redhat, Debian all have different installers. What I
would like to see is the *BSD's do is settle on 1 installer.  Yes you
might need to read 10 pages, ok 3 pages and pictures, to understand the
process but is that really such a big deal?  And think of how simple
support is.  I think the brain dead installer is the wrong optimization,
after all your only clueless when you start for +99% of the time you
know the basics.  We should try to cure the clueless not cater to them.

marc



From lists  Tue Mar  9 07:52:04 2004
From: lists (michael)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:52:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Linux Mag on BSD
Message-ID: <20040309075204.75770d85.lists@genoverly.net>


Well done, Linux-Mag:

"Sometimes, we get a little full of ourselves in the Linux community. We
portray ourselves as the elder statesmen, the users of the oldest open
source operating system around. Except, of course, we're not. The oldest
open source operating systems are the Berkeley Software Distribution
(BSD) operating systems, including FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD, the
commercial BSD/OS, and Apple's BSD-based MacOS X.

What's so great about BSD? Plenty. The old daemon might even teach the
penguin a thing or two. Read on, neophytes. "

Open Source OS
The Berkeley Software Distribution operating systems have much to offer
by Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols 

http://www.linux-mag.com/2003-12/bsd_01.html

-- 
---



From pete  Tue Mar  9 10:13:14 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:13:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <404DDF0A.2010605@nomadlogic.org>

Ray wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:13:32AM -0500, Pete Wright wrote:
>  
>
>><rant>not to start a religious war, but i really can't stand the Win2k, 
>>XP etc. installers.  I see no reason why i should have reboot about 4 
>>times to get a basic desktop system, then have to reboot another 4-6 
>>times to just get the thing OK to run on a network.</rant> 
>>    
>>
>
>I'm not sure what you're talking about.  In my experience, booting
>a Windows 2000 CD and installing from there requires one reboot,
>at the end of the installation.
>
from the re-install i had to do yesterday;
boot from CD, base Win2K system loaded, reboot
then packages get installed, network configured, and join domain, reboot
apply IE service pacthes, reboot
apply Win2K patches, reboot...etc. etc. etc ;^)

seriously tho...i think installing an OS, any OS, is a pretty 
complicated thing.  There are ton's of things that can go wrong, and 
there are ton's of different way's in which a user may want their 
software configured.  One of the virtues of installing most Unix type 
OS's i believe is the flexibility that the user i given.  Sure the 
learning curve may seem steep at the begining, but there is much power 
to be had in a flexible installation process.  just my 2bits tho..
-pete

-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From ray  Tue Mar  9 16:43:16 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:43:16 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <404DDF0A.2010605@nomadlogic.org>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA/LO2ou6qTE2I59b7h/QBUQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040306071205.GA21019@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404C8D9C.6020000@nomadlogic.org>
	<20040309004843.GB31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<404DDF0A.2010605@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20040309214315.GC31728@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:13:14AM -0500, Pete Wright wrote:
> from the re-install i had to do yesterday;
> boot from CD, base Win2K system loaded, reboot

Up to this point, I consider it the "installation" phase.

> then packages get installed, network configured, and join domain, reboot
> apply IE service pacthes, reboot
> apply Win2K patches, reboot...etc. etc. etc ;^)

These steps I do not consider to be part of the installation.
However, as they are important steps following the installation of
any piece of software, let alone an operating system, I should
probably revise my definition of "installation."

Yeah, having to reboot after those service packs are a pain.  But
we're getting off-topic here.  I still think that an installation
that is easy to understand and use to someone who's never used it
is ideal.  Hence my support for the Windows 2000 installer.

-Ray-



From george  Tue Mar  9 19:29:31 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:29:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple meeting
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAfn7Jrl0B/027J00MFfmcQQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

There's been a number of stories recently about Apple and BSD that will
be useful preparation for the April 7th meeting.

This was one was mentioned on deadly.org today:

http://www.osviews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid
=938

The discussion around that article is very interesting, as people are
weighing the contributions and withdrawals of Apple to/from FreeBSD.

And these are two from our close buddies at the Lower East Side Mac Unix
User Group, lesmuug.org.

    *  Amit Singh's http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/
      see the appendix for a list of useful (somewhat obscure built-in
utilities)
    * Amit Singh's http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/oshistory/ 

g




From george  Tue Mar  9 19:46:55 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:46:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <20040309214315.GC31728@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAwDAkH6ovaUSvOJZIHGyqSwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

<total snip>

I'm confused by a number of things in this FBSD installer discussion.

First, so much of what makes Microsoft installer so "easy" to people is
that they've been the standard for so long now to many of the people
having that perception.  It's not about the colors, graphics, etc.  Form
and substance are two different things.

What you're building with a BSD install is quite different than with a
desktop or server Microsoft install.

I do think the FBSD installer is easy to use.  And with the Handbook
within five miles of you, it's very easy.

The first question is this, does *easy* (in the critics' perceptions)
just mean conforming to the Microsoft pattern?  I believe the answer is
yes.  That's the pattern of the Linux distributions, whether anyone
wants to admit it or not.

But is that what the BSDs in general need?  I don't believe so.  The
next open source 'tech' who tells me the FBSD install process is
difficult, I will shoot.

The primary goal of FBSD is performance and stability on i386, at least
originally.  NetBSD is about portability.  OpenBSD is about security.

If those are the general project goals, I hardly think the desktop
market is the next quick step, and with it, a cutsey gui installer.

The role of the BSD's is servers, embedded systems, appliances, etc.  If
a lot of BSD people are running BSD on the desktop, great.  But to shift
any focus to that arena is a distraction.  Not that I don't want to see
more native BSD porting of the desktop apps. . .But at the end of the
day, OS X pretty much kicks everyone else's rump hands-down.

I agree with Marc S. that further unifying the BSD's with an installer
would be great.  OpenSSH is the default for all, why not do the same
with the installer?

g




From ray  Tue Mar  9 21:41:44 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:41:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple meeting
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAfn7Jrl0B/027J00MFfmcQQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAfn7Jrl0B/027J00MFfmcQQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040310024144.GA15911@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 07:29:31PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
> The discussion around that article is very interesting, as people are
> weighing the contributions and withdrawals of Apple to/from FreeBSD.

To what withdrawals do you refer?  I only see controversy concerning
whether or not contributions were actually made.

-Ray-



From george  Tue Mar  9 21:45:59 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:45:59 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Apple meeting
In-Reply-To: <20040310024144.GA15911@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAdBvmOx/lUEScDNPkf6eOZgEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray [mailto:ray at cyth.net] 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:42 PM
>To: G. Rosamond
>Cc: 'nycbug.org nyc freebsd list'
>Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Apple meeting
>
>On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 07:29:31PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
>> The discussion around that article is very interesting, as people are
>> weighing the contributions and withdrawals of Apple to/from FreeBSD.
>
>To what withdrawals do you refer?  I only see controversy concerning
>whether or not contributions were actually made.
>
>-Ray-

better put, i mean what apple contributed to bsd as opposed to what it
uses.

g




From lists  Tue Mar  9 17:51:29 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:51:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
Message-ID: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>

Is there anything different/special about .info domains?
Doing my first .info domain and doesn't seem to be working.

Ping to the domain responds. "Telnet domain.info 80" also responds.
When I try from Opera or Netscape reports that it could not locate the
server.

The domain in question is nycmodel.info




From scottro  Tue Mar  9 22:49:23 2004
From: scottro (Scott Robbins)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:49:23 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:51:29PM +0000, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> Is there anything different/special about .info domains?
> Doing my first .info domain and doesn't seem to be working.
> 
> Ping to the domain responds. "Telnet domain.info 80" also responds.
> When I try from Opera or Netscape reports that it could not locate the
> server.
> 
> The domain in question is nycmodel.info

The really stupid question--not of course, that ~I~ have ever done this,
but err, uh, I've heard it happens.

Is the httpd server running?


-- 

Scott Robbins

PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

Angel: You've never done this before. Look, it takes
tremendous strength -- mental strength.
Wesley: Resistence to suggestion. Yes, I understand that. I like to
think of myself as possessing a certain...
Angel: Wesley, you don't even have sales resistance. How many thigh
masters do you own?
Wesley: The second one was a free gift with my Buns of Steel.
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From anthony  Tue Mar  9 22:53:13 2004
From: anthony (Anthony Sofia)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:53:13 -0600
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040310035313.GA71431@dryhump.net>

On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:51:29PM +0000, Francisco Reyes said:

>Is there anything different/special about .info domains?
>Doing my first .info domain and doesn't seem to be working.
>
>Ping to the domain responds. "Telnet domain.info 80" also responds.
>When I try from Opera or Netscape reports that it could not locate the
>server.
>
>The domain in question is nycmodel.info

It looks like nycmodel.info redirects to www.nycmodel.info (apache vhost?),
but www.nycmodel.info has a bad CNAME. Do a 'dig www.nycmodel.info'. Check
for a missing period at the end of that CNAME definition in your config.

Regards,

Anthony Sofia (anthony at dryhump.net)
--
I'll take care of those murderous trolls.



From lists  Tue Mar  9 18:16:28 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:16:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>
References: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>
Message-ID: <20040309230958.B94492@zoraida.natserv.net>

> The really stupid question--not of course, that ~I~ have ever done this,
> but err, uh, I've heard it happens.
>
> Is the httpd server running?

If it wasn't would it respond to "telnet domain 80" ?
But you did give me an idea. Maybe my ISP did not configure apache
properly for the virtual host. Apache is running, but perhaps it's not
responding to the domain.

But in the past when I had my apache misconfigure it would at least point
somewhere..



From dan  Tue Mar  9 23:13:49 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:13:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040309230958.B94492@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>
Message-ID: <404E4FAD.31538.11092D66@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2004 at 23:16, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> > The really stupid question--not of course, that ~I~ have ever done this,
> > but err, uh, I've heard it happens.
> >
> > Is the httpd server running?
> 
> If it wasn't would it respond to "telnet domain 80" ?
> But you did give me an idea. Maybe my ISP did not configure apache
> properly for the virtual host. Apache is running, but perhaps it's not
> responding to the domain.

If that is the case, it would normally just display the default website.
-- 
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/




From dan  Tue Mar  9 23:14:59 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:14:59 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040309230958.B94492@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>
Message-ID: <404E4FF3.32191.110A40E0@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2004 at 23:16, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> > The really stupid question--not of course, that ~I~ have ever done this,
> > but err, uh, I've heard it happens.
> >
> > Is the httpd server running?
> 
> If it wasn't would it respond to "telnet domain 80" ?
> But you did give me an idea. Maybe my ISP did not configure apache
> properly for the virtual host. Apache is running, but perhaps it's not
> responding to the domain.

If that is the case, it would normally just display the default website.

For an example:

$ host www.freebsddiary.org
www.freebsddiary.org has address 66.154.97.250a

Now broswe to http://66.154.97.250/
-- 
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/




From lists  Tue Mar  9 18:33:22 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:33:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <404E4FF3.32191.110A40E0@localhost>
References: <20040310034923.GB2432@scottro11.homeunix.net>
	<404E4FF3.32191.110A40E0@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040309233220.X94492@zoraida.natserv.net>

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Dan Langille wrote:

> If that is the case, it would normally just display the default website.
> For an example:
> $ host www.freebsddiary.org
> www.freebsddiary.org has address 66.154.97.250a
>
> Now broswe to http://66.154.97.250/

Yes, that is I thought it would do on a case like that.
In my case the ISP put a reditect to www.domain.info, but then made a
mistake on the Cname for www.domain.info. :-(



From lists  Tue Mar  9 18:34:39 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:34:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Info domains
In-Reply-To: <20040309231918.H94492@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040309224510.B94351@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<20040310035313.GA71431@dryhump.net>
	<20040309231918.H94492@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040309233405.E94492@zoraida.natserv.net>

> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Anthony Sofia wrote:
>
> > >The domain in question is nycmodel.info
> >
> > It looks like nycmodel.info redirects to www.nycmodel.info (apache vhost?),
> > but www.nycmodel.info has a bad CNAME. Do a 'dig www.nycmodel.info'. Check
> > for a missing period at the end of that CNAME definition in your config.

 Thanks. It seems my ISP messed it up. :-(
 I tell you. I usually do my own DNS with zoneedit, but this was such a
 small site that I didn't think it merit to use zoneedit for it.. argh.

 Thanks for the info. Now I can tell my ISP exactly how they messed it up.
 :-)


ps.. resend. first try sent with wrong email address and the list bounced
it.



From pete  Wed Mar 10 09:25:55 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:25:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] current FreeBSD Advocacy thread
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAwDAkH6ovaUSvOJZIHGyqSwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAwDAkH6ovaUSvOJZIHGyqSwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <404F2573.1050104@nomadlogic.org>

G. Rosamond wrote:

><total snip>
>
>I'm confused by a number of things in this FBSD installer discussion.
>
>First, so much of what makes Microsoft installer so "easy" to people is
>that they've been the standard for so long now to many of the people
>having that perception.  It's not about the colors, graphics, etc.  Form
>and substance are two different things.
>  
>
i very much agree here.  and i think there are several good arguments 
agains MS being a easy installer, if it was so easy i think we would not 
see so many security problems with MS.  alot of the holes w/ windows 
seem to stem from services that are inabled that are not even 
neccessary.  an "easy" installer in my opinion would protect the user 
from most of these issues...


>What you're building with a BSD install is quite different than with a
>desktop or server Microsoft install.
>
>I do think the FBSD installer is easy to use.  And with the Handbook
>within five miles of you, it's very easy.
>
>The first question is this, does *easy* (in the critics' perceptions)
>just mean conforming to the Microsoft pattern?  I believe the answer is
>yes.  That's the pattern of the Linux distributions, whether anyone
>wants to admit it or not.
>  
>
i'm so sure i agree with that, sure RedHat's default installer has all 
sorts of GUI's and stuff, but you can still easilly automate, and sctipt 
anaconda (thier installer).  and you still can install redhat with two 
floppies via an http/ftp/nfs connection, that's something i've never 
seen with windows.  I also wouldn't say that slackware or debian are 
following MS's pattern of point and click ui's while removing the user 
from what's really going on...i hope in the future distro. maintains do 
not fall into this trap tho...

>But is that what the BSDs in general need?  I don't believe so.  The
>next open source 'tech' who tells me the FBSD install process is
>difficult, I will shoot.
>
>The primary goal of FBSD is performance and stability on i386, at least
>originally.  NetBSD is about portability.  OpenBSD is about security.
>
>If those are the general project goals, I hardly think the desktop
>market is the next quick step, and with it, a cutsey gui installer.
>
>The role of the BSD's is servers, embedded systems, appliances, etc.  If
>a lot of BSD people are running BSD on the desktop, great.  But to shift
>any focus to that arena is a distraction.  Not that I don't want to see
>more native BSD porting of the desktop apps. . .But at the end of the
>day, OS X pretty much kicks everyone else's rump hands-down.
>  
>

here here.

>I agree with Marc S. that further unifying the BSD's with an installer
>would be great.  OpenSSH is the default for all, why not do the same
>with the installer?
>
>g
>
>  
>


-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
email:  pete at nomadlogic.org
mobile: 917.415.9866
web:    www.nomadlogic.org/~pete




From jromero  Wed Mar 10 14:27:04 2004
From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:27:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] text recommendation
Message-ID: <200403101427.04638.jromero@romero3000.com>


Does anyone have any recommendation for a good book on data structures and 
algorythms in C??




From hans  Wed Mar 10 14:48:14 2004
From: hans (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:48:14 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] text recommendation
Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87CF0A4A@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>


> Does anyone have any recommendation for a good book on data 
> structures and algorythms in C??

Google for:  algorithms in c

The first two results are a solid start.

---
Hans Zaunere
President
New York PHP
http://nyphp.org



From paul  Wed Mar 10 16:04:36 2004
From: paul (Paul Dlug)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:04:36 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] text recommendation
In-Reply-To: <200403101427.04638.jromero@romero3000.com>
References: <200403101427.04638.jromero@romero3000.com>
Message-ID: <898E7E7E-72D6-11D8-A605-000393BB3E22@aps.org>

O'Reilly: Mastering Algorithms With C

Not specific to C but an excellent algorithms book:

Introduction to Algorithms, 2nd Edition by Thomas Cormen

Any specific algorithms/data structures you're looking for? I might 
have more specific recommendations.


On Mar 10, 2004, at 2:27 PM, Jeronimo Romero wrote:

>
> Does anyone have any recommendation for a good book on data structures 
> and
> algorythms in C??
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From mspitze1  Wed Mar 10 18:12:22 2004
From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:12:22 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Orilly has a new BSD book comming out in May
Message-ID: <20040310181222.6def1dc4@bogomips.optonline.net>

I just saw this:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bsdhks/

Ain't it cool,

marc



From dan  Wed Mar 10 18:20:10 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 18:20:10 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Orilly has a new BSD book comming out in May
In-Reply-To: <20040310181222.6def1dc4@bogomips.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <404F5C5A.15736.1522C4CA@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2004 at 18:12, Marc Spitzer wrote:

> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bsdhks/

*cough*I'm in it*cough*
-- 
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/




From george  Thu Mar 11 02:39:13 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 02:39:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] May NYCBUG meeting
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA9msVRBjCCEyqDopDmQRKqAEAAAAA@sddi.net>

there seems to be a good buzz about various technical bsd questions
recently on the list.

what about making the may meeting a roundtable.  we break into five
groups, dealing with the top five issues that are submitted via the
list, and document the solutions and discuss.

thoughts?  suggestions?

btw, there will be a new daemon news print edition coming out shortly.
it's been a while.  just went to the printer.  there's an article on us
based on a report i submitted a while back. . .but they are interested
in more submissions.  introductory or advanced.  it's a great
opportunity to get published, and for us, as a user group, to assist the
bsd family.

g




From george  Thu Mar 11 13:53:48 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:53:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAfFA40YWnQ0a9dZHb21QCYgEAAAAA@sddi.net>

I've attached a brief report in pdf of our status as an organization.

It should give everyone an idea of what's gone on since we've started up
and future plans based on various discussions, on and off-list.

I'll try to do these monthly or bi-monthly.

Some of it may seem cryptic, but that's obviously not the intent.

Feel free to submit any questions about it to the list, and me or
someone else can respond.

g
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From george  Thu Mar 11 14:00:49 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:00:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] ooops
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA4q28kGFrYUGlSdaallcBsQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

forgot non-text attachments are scrubbed.

it's on the www site for download at www.nycbug.org/may2004.pdf

g




From george  Thu Mar 11 14:27:32 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:27:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting location
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAgGTVu0c3wk+Z2WkO6xyz3gEAAAAA@sddi.net>

Anyone have any decent leads on a new location for our monthly meeting?
Something that fits up to 60 would be nice, unless some people enjoy
lurking in the hallway and sitting on the floor.

g




From george  Sat Mar 13 12:21:44 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:21:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] secure by default?
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAADRMgf4rhEq4SkR/A5xu0QEAAAAA@sddi.net>

>From the deadly.org story. . .a Gates quote. . .

<quote>

Secure by default: That's making sure people can see very, very easily
exactly what type of network communication they're allowing, understand
exactly what that surface is, and we've eliminated a lot of the
so-called network responding services. We've defaulted off those
services, and we've made these group administrative policy management
capabilities apply very easily. So some can say, 'Are there any systems
on this network that have this port open? Are there any systems on this
network that have been experiencing a certain type of traffic?' And you
have this visibility not just on a single system-by-system level, but as
an administrator looking at all the different systems in your
environment.

<end of quote>

There is a noticeable change with Win2k3 server from my experience.  For
instance, you're not running SQL or a www server without knowing it on
your file server, for once.

Still not clear on *how* the 2k3 products are more secure and how to
judge by their own record.  They have really be only responsible for
taking down the web to a large extent only 2 times so far this year.

But to use "secure by default". . .

g




From EInker  Mon Mar 15 17:04:52 2004
From: EInker (Inker, Evan)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:04:52 -0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] For those Interested,
	SUN Solaris 10 OS is Available...
Message-ID: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F550@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>

For those Brave Interested Souls wanting to test drive Solaris 10,
SUN is providing free Solaris 9 & 10 Binaries for non-commercial,
Educational, 
And Developer Use.

Please see URL attached....
http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/10/index.html

Regards,
Evan Inker

PS If nothing else, it's a great way to see how Solaris 10 stacks up in
comparison to FreeBSD, OpenBSD (my personal favorite) and NetBSD


****************************************************************************
This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
for the individual or entity named.  If you are not the named addressee
you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received 
this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive
late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this 
message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  
If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
related financial instruments.
GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is 
regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
****************************************************************************




From danielk  Mon Mar 15 17:27:31 2004
From: danielk (Daniel Krook)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:27:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] For those Interested,
	SUN Solaris 10 OS is Available...
In-Reply-To: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F550@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>
Message-ID: <OF486071AC.BD138910-ON85256E58.007B0C66-85256E58.007B4736@us.ibm.com>





> For those Brave Interested Souls wanting to test drive Solaris 10,
> SUN is providing free Solaris 9 & 10 Binaries for non-commercial,
> Educational,
> And Developer Use.


Ahh, what great news to hear seven days before one is scheduled to complete
Solaris 9 certification.  Doh.








Daniel Krook, Application Developer, Production Services, ibm.com
1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604
Tel: (914) 642-4474, Tieline: 224-4474
danielk at us.ibm.com

Contractor BluePages profile in exile:  http://info.krook.org/
"Sharing expertise should be viewed as a collective commitment to the
success of IBM's New Agenda - on demand."





From jschauma  Mon Mar 15 17:33:45 2004
From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:33:45 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] For those Interested,
	SUN Solaris 10 OS is Available...
In-Reply-To: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F550@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>
References: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F550@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>
Message-ID: <20040315223345.GC26979@netmeister.org>

"Inker, Evan" <EInker at GAM.COM> wrote:
 
> PS If nothing else, it's a great way to see how Solaris 10 stacks up in
> comparison to FreeBSD, OpenBSD (my personal favorite) and NetBSD

And, of course, you can use NetBSD's Packages Collection (aka pkgsrc,
http://www.pkgsrc.org/ and http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/pkgsrc/)
on it.

> ****************************************************************************
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
> for the individual or entity named.

[...]

You have _got_ to be kidding us.

-Jan

-- 
I always said there was something fundamentally wrong with the universe.
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From EInker  Mon Mar 15 17:24:59 2004
From: EInker (Inker, Evan)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:24:59 -0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] For those Interested,	SUN Solaris 10 OS is Avai
	lable...
Message-ID: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F551@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>

Isn't that always the way it happens...
FYI...SUN has been giving away Solaris 10 since the NY LWE 2004 (End Jan
2004)

Regards,

Evan M. Inker  (New York)  x. 4615



-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Krook [mailto:danielk at us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:28 PM
To: Inker, Evan
Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] For those Interested, SUN Solaris 10 OS is
Available...






> For those Brave Interested Souls wanting to test drive Solaris 10, SUN 
> is providing free Solaris 9 & 10 Binaries for non-commercial, 
> Educational, And Developer Use.


Ahh, what great news to hear seven days before one is scheduled to complete
Solaris 9 certification.  Doh.








Daniel Krook, Application Developer, Production Services, ibm.com 1133
Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604
Tel: (914) 642-4474, Tieline: 224-4474
danielk at us.ibm.com

Contractor BluePages profile in exile:  http://info.krook.org/ "Sharing
expertise should be viewed as a collective commitment to the success of
IBM's New Agenda - on demand."



****************************************************************************
This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
for the individual or entity named.  If you are not the named addressee
you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received 
this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive
late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this 
message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  
If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
related financial instruments.
GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is 
regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
****************************************************************************




From rbrown  Mon Mar 15 19:16:25 2004
From: rbrown (Rodrick R. Brown)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:16:25 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] EMPLOYMENT - Sun Solaris 
In-Reply-To: <20040315223345.GC26979@netmeister.org>
Message-ID: <200403160011.i2G0BcjO093245@kremlin.stereodreams.org>

Hello all I don't know if this is the right place to post this but my
division is expanding we are looking to hire 10 people to support a massive
Unix infrastructure mostly Sun Solaris 8/9, some Linux VM-OS390, This is for
the City of New York yeah NYC uses UNIX :) 

Currently we support about 150 UNIX servers from v100's to Sun Fire 15K's
that will grow to about 300 this year. 

Here is the official posting 
http://www.nyc.gov/html/recruit/html/openings_unixadmin.html

I have 3 positions open for Jr. Level ops (Patches/Monitoring/Basic Trouble
shooting). 

7 Positions open for Senior SA's 4+ years (veritas cluster, SAN, strong
kernel understanding, basic programming c/perl/ksh 

You can hit me off list rbrown at doitt.nyc.gov :-) 

Please note all interviews are technical I really don't care how much
experience you know your stuff 1 technicality is that you must have SAI and
SAII for 8 or 9. :( silly HR requirement. 

We are located in the downtown Brooklyn area 11 Metrotech. 

- RB 






From lists  Mon Mar 15 15:43:03 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:43:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Need designer to partner with
Message-ID: <20040315203843.F97980@zoraida.natserv.net>

I have a virtual company that consists of 3 developers.
We target PHP/PostgreSQL systems.

I am in need of partnering with a graphic designer.
Many of the jobs we try to bid are 60% to 90% development and the rest
design, yet our chances to get the jobs are low because we don't have a
portfolio to show.

Anyone interested email me and we can talk.



From dan  Mon Mar 15 20:37:41 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:37:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Need designer to partner with
In-Reply-To: <20040315203843.F97980@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040315203843.F97980@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040315203647.P55462@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> I have a virtual company that consists of 3 developers.
> We target PHP/PostgreSQL systems.

If you need another developer, I've been doing PHP/PostgreSQL for a few
years now.  And my rates will be cheaper than most.

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From EInker  Tue Mar 16 09:27:46 2004
From: EInker (Inker, Evan)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:27:46 -0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting location
Message-ID: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F55E@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>

George,

I was wondering if anyone tried contacting NYACC (They usually have SIGS
meeting out of NYU)
I know that had an AnyNIX Sig which has gone the way of the Dinosaurs so
NYCBUG may be a nice fit...

Just a thought...

Regards,
Evan


G. Rosamond george at sddi.net 
Thu Mar 11 14:27:32 EST 2004 

Anyone have any decent leads on a new location for our monthly meeting?
Something that fits up to 60 would be nice, unless some people enjoy
lurking in the hallway and sitting on the floor.

g



****************************************************************************
This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
for the individual or entity named.  If you are not the named addressee
you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received 
this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
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If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
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regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
****************************************************************************




From pete  Tue Mar 16 12:58:28 2004
From: pete (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] 3Ware support?
Message-ID: <40574044.10801@nomadlogic.org>

Hey has anyone had any success dealing with 3Ware tech. support.  I've 
had my second escalade SATA-RAID card go south on me in a couple months 
and most of the support folks there seem pretty intent on not helping 
me.  If I hear "Oh it's probably your motherboard" one more time I'm 
going to cry...Has anyone used the SATA-RAID cards from adaptec.  How do 
they stack up?





cheers,

   pete wright

-- 
~~~oO00Oo~~~
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete





From lists  Tue Mar 16 12:42:08 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:42:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mail setup with System X
Message-ID: <20040316174033.G5643@zoraida.natserv.net>

Anyone setup a mail server with System X?
Trying to help a friend.
It seems he can send email, but can not receive.
When I try to telnet to his machine port 25, I get connection refused.
He gave me access to the box through SSH and basically they use Postfix so
either a Postfix solution or whatever admin screens system X uses would
help.

time to hit the Postfix docs.. :-(




From jeffknight  Tue Mar 16 17:39:41 2004
From: jeffknight (putamare)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:39:41 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mail setup with System X
In-Reply-To: <20040316174033.G5643@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040316174033.G5643@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <D069287A-779A-11D8-9AC4-003065F9A07A@mac.com>

Try this, or searching elsewhere for answers within the excellent  
macosxhints site.
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php? 
story=20031025022626398&query=postfix


On Mar 16, 2004, at 12:42 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> Anyone setup a mail server with System X?
> Trying to help a friend.
> It seems he can send email, but can not receive.
> When I try to telnet to his machine port 25, I get connection refused.
> He gave me access to the box through SSH and basically they use  
> Postfix so
> either a Postfix solution or whatever admin screens system X uses would
> help.
>
> time to hit the Postfix docs.. :-(
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From george  Wed Mar 17 10:53:42 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:53:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] announcement: NY Linux User Group Meeting TONIGHT
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAxaBPnkvsNU2EkIrKSwt0jwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

since we have twice as many people subscribed to 'talk' than 'announce',
i am posting here. . .

(if there is a more controversial set of unixish tools in the bsd-world,
i want to know them. . .)

March 17th, 2004
Wednesday
6:30PM-8:00PM
IBM Headquarters Building
590 Madison Avenue at 57th Street
12th Floor, home to the IBM Linux Center of Competency

** RSVP Instructions **
    Unless you have already rsvp'ed for a prior meeting, everyone
    should RSVP to attend. http://rsvp.nylug.org
    Check in with photo ID at the lobby for badge and room number.


                        George Georgalis (NYLUG.org)
                                    -on-
                   Managing Unix Services with Daemontools

   
   ``Daemontools, so simple, it's like it wasn't there,'' says our own
   George Georgalis, this month's presenter.

   Daemontools is a powerful suite for maintaining high availability of
   your daemons. It serves a simple function: keep a daemon up, and log
   its output. Since it is not part of most distributions, most people
   don't take the time to learn much of this powerful alternative. While
   the operation is unlike any other service control system, it is not
   complicated.

   Daemontools' main attributes are:
     * it's easy to setup
     * it's easy to maintain
     * it's secure
     * it's well organized
     * it's reliable
     * it's always working

   Daemontools is licensed into the Public Domain, not GNU, but 100%
free.

   George will demonstrate the build, installation, and configuration of
   daemontools, also the set-up of a few daemons under it (please submit
   daemon request to george at galis.org before the time of the meeting). A
   few of the presenter's scripts and related packages will also be
   discussed.

   The package is simple enough that there (most likely) won't be any
   unanswered question, ``other than why aren't we using it?'' Come find
   out.

  For More Information Visit:

     * daemontools Homepage
        http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html
     * License Vetting by the FSF
 
http://www.gnu.org/directory/All_Packages_in_Directory/daemontools.html
     * Third Party man Pages, Public Domain Libraries
        http://smarden.org/pape/djb/
     * System and Kernel Logging Services
        http://smarden.org/socklog/

  About George Georgalis:

   George is a NYLUG member, works in the NYC Metropolitan Area, is a
*nix
   devotee, and maintains a traditional homepage (nice). He's helpful on
   the NYLUG lists, a good soul, and consequently will be spared
   purgatory. He's an asset.

   You can visit, mail or buzz him via http://galis.org/ or
   george at galis.org .

Free Stuff!
    Swag of undetermined value and quantity may be distributed on a
    first-come, first-served basis. Arrive early for the best selection.

Keysignings
    GPG cryptography. Immediately after the presentation and continuing
    at Stammtisch we will be gathering for a keysigning. For those who
    already have keys, please remember to bring paper printouts of your
    40-character key fingerprint, as per the instructions in our howto
    docs. If you haven't created a key yet, and for keysigning details,
    our howto docs are a must read. http://www.nylug.org/keys

Stammtisch
    After the meeting ... Join us around 8:30pm or so at TGI Friday's,
    located at 677 Lexington Avenue and 56th Street, second floor.
    Northeast corner.

Please see our home page at http://www.nylug.org for the HTMLized
version of this announcement, our archives, and a lot of other good
stuff.

Monthly Reminder!
    Please read the NYLUG-Talk Posting Guidelines at:
    http://www.nylug.org/mlistguide/




From lists  Wed Mar 17 08:03:30 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:03:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
Message-ID: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>

Tried to ask in FreeBSD chat, but got no replies.

Anyone happy with whatever company they use for internet billing that
would recommend them?

Researching online it seems that for every company out there there is a
number of people unhappy with them (starting of course with paypal and
paypalsucks.com).

This will be for a startup company and will be selling subscriptions to
a web service.



From ike  Wed Mar 17 13:05:42 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>

Hi Framcisco,

On Mar 17, 2004, at 8:03 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> Tried to ask in FreeBSD chat, but got no replies.
>
> Anyone happy with whatever company they use for internet billing that
> would recommend them?
>
> Researching online it seems that for every company out there there is a
> number of people unhappy with them (starting of course with paypal and
> paypalsucks.com).
>
> This will be for a startup company and will be selling subscriptions to
> a web service.
>

No answer for you, but I'd LOVE to work with you to find some options 
and share notes- My company is moving off the PayPal eventually, (or at 
least offering both after using PayPal since 98').  Anyhow, one of my 
partners has vendor info, I'll get what he's got in the next few days.

But in the meantime, I'd love to hear what everyone says out there too-

Rocket all,
.ike





From lists  Wed Mar 17 15:06:19 2004
From: lists (michael)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:06:19 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20040317150619.4210186b.lists@genoverly.net>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:05:42 -0500
Isaac Levy <ike at lesmuug.org> wrote:

> No answer for you, but I'd LOVE to work with you to find some options 
> and share notes

No answer but also very curious..
Michael

-- 
---



From dan  Wed Mar 17 15:18:45 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:18:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] announcement: NY Linux User Group Meeting TONIGHT
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAxaBPnkvsNU2EkIrKSwt0jwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAxaBPnkvsNU2EkIrKSwt0jwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040317151818.V51910@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> since we have twice as many people subscribed to 'talk' than 'announce',
> i am posting here. . .
>
> (if there is a more controversial set of unixish tools in the bsd-world,

What can I say.... FreshPorts uses daemontools to process incoming
commits.

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From lists  Wed Mar 17 14:28:25 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:28:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Isaac Levy wrote:

> No answer for you, but I'd LOVE to work with you to find some options
> and share notes-

Got two interesting prospects from the FreeBSD-ISP list.

http://payquake.com
http://www.paysystems.com

Searched around for negative feedback for them and did not find any.

paysystems.com seems it may be better if you plan to have international
sales. If not for that I would probably go with payquake.

Payquake also does international sales, but their rates seem too high (or
at least higher than paysystems.com).



From jromero  Wed Mar 17 20:26:44 2004
From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:26:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD 4.9 on Smart Array 641 raid controller
Message-ID: <a06694de0912eb439cc65b12efe61c68@romero3000.com>



Does anyone know if FreeBSD supports Compaq Smart Array 641??? If not
how about the Smart Array 532??? 






From george  Thu Mar 18 01:14:00 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:14:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd smp
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAR5M8qJ+s3UKbvWl6eDqelQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

for those who haven't heard. . .

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-tech&m=107951570824676&w=2

this is brilliant news, as it's the major problem with obsd, IMHO.

lots of discussion on deadly.org and /.

g




From ike  Fri Mar 19 16:10:49 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:10:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
	<20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <E5D945B4-79E9-11D8-B0F0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>

Hi Francisco, All,

Francisco: thanks for posting- got the vendor name I spoke of before,

On Mar 17, 2004, at 2:28 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Isaac Levy wrote:
>> No answer for you, but I'd LOVE to work with you to find some options
>> and share notes-
>
> Got two interesting prospects from the FreeBSD-ISP list.
>
> http://payquake.com
> http://www.paysystems.com
>
> Searched around for negative feedback for them and did not find any.
>
> paysystems.com seems it may be better if you plan to have international
> sales. If not for that I would probably go with payquake.
>
> Payquake also does international sales, but their rates seem too high 
> (or
> at least higher than paysystems.com).

http://www.concordefs.com/retailers/ecommerce.htm

These guys are different from most online payment fulfillment systems, 
because they are one of the companies that actually hold the wires 
between the credit card companies, and banks.  Some of my info may be a 
bit off, but to my understanding, they are 1 of 3 major companies that 
provide retail POS systems, and maintain the data lines that some ATM 
and bank networks use for transactions- and do stuff like big-chain POS 
networks (grocery stores and chain franchises).

With that said, tons of online payment fulfillment companies are 
actually reselling their services.

Thing is- they may have the closest connection to the banks/cc/etc, so 
their rates may in the end prove better (and they may be a more stable 
service provider), BUT, they may not be as good as the smaller 
online-focused companies, like the 2 listed above.

--
I'll be gunning for some feedback about them in coming weeks, and would 
love to lightly keep this thread active for a while...

Rocket-
.ike




From EInker  Mon Mar 22 14:56:00 2004
From: EInker (Inker, Evan)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:56:00 -0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD 4.9 on Smart Array 641 raid controller
Message-ID: <386AEEE1B7BAC34CB4DDF394C234927819F592@w2cs-nyk02.gam.com>

Yes, the Compaq Smart Array 532 is supported under FreeBSD v. 4.5 and up 
http://people.freebsd.org/~msmith/RAID/

Links attesting to Smart Array 641 under FreeBSD v 4.9
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-February/036063.ht
ml


[nycbug-talk] FreeBSD 4.9 on Smart Array 641 raid controller
Jeronimo Romero jromero at romero3000.com 
Wed Mar 17 20:26:44 EST 2004 

Does anyone know if FreeBSD supports Compaq Smart Array 641??? If not
how about the Smart Array 532??? 

Regards,

Evan M. Inker  (New York)  x. 4615




****************************************************************************
This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
for the individual or entity named.  If you are not the named addressee
you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  
Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received 
this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive
late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore does not
accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this 
message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  
If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
This message is provided for informational purposes and should not
be construed as an invitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
related financial instruments.
GAM operates in many jurisdictions and is 
regulated or licensed in those jurisdictions as required.
****************************************************************************




From hans  Mon Mar 22 15:39:14 2004
From: hans (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:39:14 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Back Online
Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87FE4BEE@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>


Had some downtime over the weekend folks... sorry about that.
Everything is backonline and should remain stable.  vinum is best used
when the box isn't 25 blocks away in a locked office.

H



From george  Mon Mar 22 18:33:04 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:33:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCan
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA7IGncfPsBUud0sm+vdetJgEAAAAA@sddi.net>

as many of you probably noticed from Daemon News this weekend. . .

BSDCan's registration process is up and running.

I'm registered.

http://www.bsdcan.org/register.php

I'll start taking a list of those interested. . .

send me your name, email, phone offlist when you're registered.

g

917-968-1900




From dan  Mon Mar 22 18:56:20 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:56:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCan
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA7IGncfPsBUud0sm+vdetJgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA7IGncfPsBUud0sm+vdetJgEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040322185445.X93461@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> as many of you probably noticed from Daemon News this weekend. . .
>
> BSDCan's registration process is up and running.
>
> I'm registered.
>
> http://www.bsdcan.org/register.php

Yes, George is registered.  He was #2 to register actually!

But please start at http://www.bsdcan.org/registration.php as that
contains a few things that should be read.

BTW: The BSDCan pens arrived today.  And the T-Shirt designs.

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From paul  Tue Mar 23 09:49:32 2004
From: paul (Paul Dlug)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:49:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Xgrid and Radmind presentation - April 16th
Message-ID: <4BAA594A-7CD9-11D8-B79A-000393BB3E22@aps.org>

In case anyone is interested. Though it is often more talked about in 
the Mac OS X community radmind is an excellent tool for managing 
filesystems on solaris, *BSD, Mac OS X and linux. It's available in the 
FreeBSD ports collection and I've been using it to manage servers and 
desktops with great success for about 4 months now.

(I sent this yesterday but for some reason the post never made it to 
the list)

Xgrid and Radmind
Friday, April 16th, 9:30am-12:30pm

CUNY/CIS
Seminar Room - 16th floor
555 W. 57th Street
New York, NY 10019

Space is limited, please RSVP to helen.mclean at mail.cuny.edu

Mac Synergy
Presented by Adam Scinto of Apple Computer: Xgrid turns a group of Macs 
into a supercomputer, so they can work on problems greater than each 
individually could solve. Using state of the art technology like 
Rendezvous and based on public license software like BEEP,  Xgrid 
brings to clustering Apple's famous ease of use and remarkable 
technology to make clustering more accessible and more powerful. During 
our session, we will examine the technology behind Xgrid and 
demonstrate how to combine your OS X hardware in a lab or even a whole 
building into a powerful supercomputer.

Managing Clusters with Radmind
Wesley Craig and Patrick McNeal, developers on the University of 
Michigan's Radmind project, will discuss how Radmind can be leveraged 
to simplify the deployment and maintenance of computer clusters 
throughout their life cycle, including installation, updating and 
verification.  Managing both dedicated computer nodes and cycle 
scavenging systems such as Xgrid, condor and pbs will be covered along 
with new radmind features and best practice suggestions.




From lists  Tue Mar 23 11:59:03 2004
From: lists (michael)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:59:03 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] From the Library
Message-ID: <20040323115903.3b404be5@delinux.abwatley.com>

Addison-Wesley has sent us a DRAFT MANUSCRIPT of Aaron Hillegass's
Second Edition of "Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X".

It is to be published in Late April.  If you want to read the advance
copy please drop me a note at michael at nycbug.org.

-- 
---



From jrod212  Tue Mar 23 21:34:44 2004
From: jrod212 (Jay)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:34:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] trying to install freeBSD on Ultra 10
Message-ID: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello
I'm trying to boot froma FreeBSD cdrom ISO on a Sun
Ultra 10 and I'm having trouble with it.
I have read everywhere that I need to send a break or
STOP-A so that I can boot from the cdrom, but it don't
work for me. I'm using Teraterm and a console cable
because I don't have a Sun monitor or keyboard. If you
havn't guessed yet I'm a nix newbie. Can anyone offer
some assistance?

jrod212 at yahoo.com





From mspitze1  Tue Mar 23 21:46:11 2004
From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:46:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] trying to install freeBSD on Ultra 10
In-Reply-To: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040323214611.0a01dc07@bogomips.optonline.net>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:34:44 -0800 (PST)
Jay <jrod212 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello
> I'm trying to boot froma FreeBSD cdrom ISO on a Sun
> Ultra 10 and I'm having trouble with it.
> I have read everywhere that I need to send a break or
> STOP-A so that I can boot from the cdrom, but it don't
> work for me. I'm using Teraterm and a console cable
> because I don't have a Sun monitor or keyboard. If you
> havn't guessed yet I'm a nix newbie. Can anyone offer
> some assistance?

I have had controle-pause work before.

teraterm may have a break menu item also.

marc



> 
> jrod212 at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From mlists  Tue Mar 23 22:11:14 2004
From: mlists (Bruno Scap)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:11:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] trying to install freeBSD on Ultra 10
In-Reply-To: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040324031114.GC30369@bizintegrators.com>

On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 06:34:44PM -0800, Jay wrote:
> Hello
> I'm trying to boot froma FreeBSD cdrom ISO on a Sun
> Ultra 10 and I'm having trouble with it.
> I have read everywhere that I need to send a break or
> STOP-A so that I can boot from the cdrom, but it don't
> work for me. I'm using Teraterm and a console cable
> because I don't have a Sun monitor or keyboard. If you
> havn't guessed yet I'm a nix newbie. Can anyone offer
> some assistance?
> 

Try alt-b



From trish  Tue Mar 23 22:47:57 2004
From: trish (Trish Lynch)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:47:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] trying to install freeBSD on Ultra 10
In-Reply-To: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040324023444.43358.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040323224607.H77626@ultra.bsdunix.net>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Jay wrote:

> Hello
> I'm trying to boot froma FreeBSD cdrom ISO on a Sun
> Ultra 10 and I'm having trouble with it.
> I have read everywhere that I need to send a break or
> STOP-A so that I can boot from the cdrom, but it don't
> work for me. I'm using Teraterm and a console cable
> because I don't have a Sun monitor or keyboard. If you
> havn't guessed yet I'm a nix newbie. Can anyone offer
> some assistance?
>
> jrod212 at yahoo.com
>
>

never used teraterm, I use securecrt for console, but you can try any
number of things, sometimes the terminal program has a menu option for
"send break" or shift-pause or alt-pause may work sometimes. Its different
for each terminal program.

On a lighter note though, I run FreeBSD on an ultra 10 at work, and an
E250 at home (its my primary mail server) and it works really well.

-Trish


-- 
Trish Lynch					   trish at bsdunix.net
Ecartis Core Team 			      trish at listmistress.org
EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at             AilleCat at EFNet
Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919  0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16



From george  Wed Mar 24 12:45:56 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:45:56 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] mini-ITX
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAWPrsAW1TWEGKfMLz8VaAdAEAAAAA@sddi.net>

i picked up a mini-ITX (www.casetronic.com) recently, and was planning
to build a bsd box of one variant or another. . .

have tried net, free and open, but there's issues with the Via ethernet
(vr0).

netbsd seems the only one to claim support. . .but. . .

seems that i infrequently *do* have internet connectivity, but it's
rare.

ifconfig shows up as active, ip address assigned, etc.

only once, of many times, was i able to get a dhcp address during
install.

it would make a great little firewall box, although the second interface
would have to be usb.

anyone have any experiences with these things. . .??  googling so far
hasn't created any solutions. . .

g




From dan  Wed Mar 24 12:53:25 2004
From: dan (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:53:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] mini-ITX
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAWPrsAW1TWEGKfMLz8VaAdAEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAWPrsAW1TWEGKfMLz8VaAdAEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040324125146.G89795@xeon.unixathome.org>

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> i picked up a mini-ITX (www.casetronic.com) recently, and was planning
> to build a bsd box of one variant or another. . .
>
> have tried net, free and open, but there's issues with the Via ethernet
> (vr0).
>
> netbsd seems the only one to claim support. . .but. . .

vr is working OK on my gateway box:

$ ifconfig
vr0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet 192.168.0.21 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
        inet6 fe80::250:baff:fe2b:57aa%vr0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
        ether 00:50:ba:2b:57:aa
        media: Ethernet autoselect (100baseTX <full-duplex>)
        status: active
vr1: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
        inet6 fe80::205:5dff:fef3:a7ae%vr1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2
        ether 00:05:5d:f3:a7:ae
        media: Ethernet autoselect (10baseT/UTP)
        status: active

$ uname -a
FreeBSD bast.example.org 4.9-STABLE FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE #3: Wed Mar  3
10:16:16 EST 2004 dan at bast.example.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/BAST i386

-- 
Dan Langille - BSDCan: http://www.bsdcan.org/



From chrislist  Thu Mar 25 13:08:27 2004
From: chrislist (Chris McCulloh)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:08:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5
Message-ID: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable>

http://www.openbsd.org/35.html

and

http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html

Never let it be said the OpenBSD team isn't on top of things.  As you will
recall from Wes and Jason's excellent talk on OBSD/Security, one of their
greatest concerns with OBSD when it comes to installation in a firewall
capacity was the great difficulty in making the setup redundant, and the
inability for full, active redundancy.

About to hit release, and it couldn't be more topical, is OpenBSD 3.5. 
One of its major new features is CARP, the Common Address Redundancy
Protocl.  I won't get into too much detail, but suffice it to say that
their tests involved four systems acting as a redundant firewall with
randomized reboot cycles.  All that was required for full user
functionality was that any one of those four be functional and online. 
Failover is completely seamless to end users.  I'm hoping to setup two
test boxen here to play with the snapshot, and if I do I'll let people
know my results.

Anybody else yet played with OBSD 3.5 at all?

-chris

-- 
Chris McCulloh
Secure Systems Architect
Sinetimore, LLC

  e: cmcculloh at sinetimore.com
  t: 212.504.0288
  f: 212.656.1469
  w: http://www.sinetimore.com
  a: 40 Broad Street, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10004, USA
key: http://www.sinetimore.com/chriskey.pub
   : [ 9508 07E0 9E6C DD05 4419 40FA 4D96 FD82 24CE 0273 ]
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From george  Thu Mar 25 13:59:43 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:59:43 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5
In-Reply-To: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

<snip>
>Anybody else yet played with OBSD 3.5 at all?
>
>-chris

once i get my bsdmall sub of obsd, i'm on it. . .

been spending a lot of time playing with PF, and i love it.

looking forward to 3.5. . .

in terms of the enterprise, i think the even bigger deal might be the
SMP issue.  although don't know of anyone running smp-enabled firewalls.
. . ;-)

g




From george  Thu Mar 25 14:07:15 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:07:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Hello from Peter at Usenix
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAArJVXGypVBk2mFUKInAVw0gEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Mui [mailto:pmui at usenix.org] 
>Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:02 PM
>To: george at nycbug.org; hans at nycbug.org
>Subject: Hello from Peter at Usenix
>
>Hi George and Hans:
>
>We're holding the Usenix Annual Technical Conference at Boston 
>Marriott  
>Copley Place June 27 through July 2 and it has a lot of BSD-oriented  
>features.  We're looking for help promoting it in the NorthEast US:  
>we're putting more of a regional emphasis on our promotion, thinking  
>that there should be lots of potential attendees within driving  
>distance.
>
>We're open to any inspired ideas to promote the conference: do 
>you know  
>of any local organizations, corporations, or individuals we should be  
>sure to contact in the NYC area?  For example: do you know anyone who  
>might want to do recruiting at the conference?  (Can we at least get  
>listed on your "Future Events"?)
>
>And, of course, we're interested in NYCBUG having a strong 
>presence at  
>the event, and could offer you resources to make that happen: would  
>your group like to have an event associated with the conference?  Let  
>me know.
>
>I'm open to any or all ideas at this point, so feel free to 
>reply with  
>anything that comes to mind.  If you'd prefer to speak by phone I'm  
>happy to talk to you: let me know your phone number and when you're  
>available and I'll try to reach you at that time.
>
>(See the conference announcement below.)
>
>Many thanks for any reply, -Peter
>
>Peter Mui
>USENIX Association
>2560 9th Street STE 215
>Berkeley, CA 94710
>510 548 8649 ext. 28
>pmui at usenix.org
>
>
>(cut here)
>=================================================
>Register NOW for the USENIX Annual Technical Conference (ATC) 
>in Boston  
>June 27-July 2, 2004.
>
>USENIX's Annual Technical Conference returns to Boston this 
>summer with  
>top name instructors and presenters from academia and industry.   
>Conference Highlights include:
>
>o  6 days of training with up to 30 tutorial offerings
>o  Famous-name Plenary Sessions every day
>o  2.5 days of General Sessions-original and innovative papers about  
>modern computing systems
>o  2.5 days of FREENIX-a showcase for the latest developments in and  
>interesting applications of free and open source software
>o  Five Full-day Special Interest Group (SIG) Sessions on Security,  
>UseLinux, UseBSD, Extreme Linux and Advanced System Administration.
>o  "Guru Is In" Sessions  pose questions to noted experts in the  
>community.
>o  Birds-of-a-Feather sessions (BoFs)
>o  Special social events every evening
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>--------- 
>------
>WHAT:    USENIX '04 Annual Technical Conference
>WHEN:    June 27 to July 2, 2004
>WHERE:   Boston, MA: Marriott Copley Place
>WHY:     Great tutorials -- Unique Tech Sessions -- cutting-edge  
>computing issues, developments & resources
>WHO:     Developers, architects, researchers, administrators, 
>managers,  
>students: anyone interested in staying ahead of the curve
>HOW:     Register Now at http://www.usenix.org/usenix04/progm

This is certainly something to discuss further. . .

I told peter we were interested in being involved. . .

thoughts?

g




From george  Thu Mar 25 23:30:34 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:30:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] another BSDCan plug. . .
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA4P+3vBsqvUe8/PP7acpHfwEAAAAA@sddi.net>

There's been a bit of a jump in activity around BSDCan, and it's sure to
increase as we move to May.  According to Dan Langille, the organizer
who also happens to be on this list, they've added three presentations
in the last 24 hours. . .

the list of speakers and presentations has grown. . .it includes Theo,
Michael Lucas, Robert Watson (of TrustedBSD). . .and many more. . .and
btw, those last two are interested in doing NYCBUG meetings for us this
summer.

http://www.bsdcan.org/presentations.php

should be a blast. . .

amtrak is $110 round trip from nyc to montreal, $93.50 for "student
advantage card". . .

g




From ray  Fri Mar 26 00:21:01 2004
From: ray (Ray)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 00:21:01 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040326052101.GA9012@cybertron.cyth.net>

On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 01:59:43PM -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
> in terms of the enterprise, i think the even bigger deal might
> be the SMP issue.  although don't know of anyone running smp-enabled
> firewalls. . . ;-)

SMP is just marketing and hype.  If an "enterprise" really wanted
to multiply their capacity, setting up separate, redundant machines
would yield better performance and provide better protection against
failure.i

What would be neat is if there was a way to share processing among
several systems like distributed.net, but for any program.  Or
something like that.

-Ray-



From mspitze1  Fri Mar 26 01:55:27 2004
From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:55:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5
In-Reply-To: <20040326052101.GA9012@cybertron.cyth.net>
References: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040326052101.GA9012@cybertron.cyth.net>
Message-ID: <20040326015527.11483a7f@bogomips.optonline.net>

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 00:21:01 -0500
Ray <ray at cyth.net> wrote:

> What would be neat is if there was a way to share processing among
> several systems like distributed.net, but for any program.  Or
> something like that.

I think that is what dragonfly is shooting for.

marc



From george  Sat Mar 27 20:42:53 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:42:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting space
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAV+8Cm3SRZEaOzNHveH4KTAEAAAAA@sddi.net>

we have a potential breakthrough on the meeting space issue. . .

I stopped by the Apple Store in Soho yesterday, and spoke to a manager,
and explained what we were doing at NYCBUG.

Right away he volunteered their meeting space, which seats almost 50,
plus room for more. . .large screen. . .pretty nice.  I'm sure many are
familiar  with it. . .

I will followup on Monday. . .Chances are, the next meeting at 116 W
23rd street will be the last at that location. . .

I'll keep all posted. . .

g




From jesse  Sun Mar 28 10:53:03 2004
From: jesse (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:53:03 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting space
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAV+8Cm3SRZEaOzNHveH4KTAEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAV+8Cm3SRZEaOzNHveH4KTAEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <FF145AD7-80CF-11D8-8710-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com>

You're awesome.

On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:42 PM, G. Rosamond wrote:

> we have a potential breakthrough on the meeting space issue. . .
>
> I stopped by the Apple Store in Soho yesterday, and spoke to a manager,
> and explained what we were doing at NYCBUG.
>
> Right away he volunteered their meeting space, which seats almost 50,
> plus room for more. . .large screen. . .pretty nice.  I'm sure many are
> familiar  with it. . .
>
> I will followup on Monday. . .Chances are, the next meeting at 116 W
> 23rd street will be the last at that location. . .
>
> I'll keep all posted. . .
>
> g
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From george  Sun Mar 28 15:28:05 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:28:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] great site. . .
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAE2JIX8AAqE6MgBkUEt084wEAAAAA@sddi.net>

This site has some good tools. . .and a list of default hardware passwds
in the special section .  .. .

http://phenoelit.de/

g




From ike  Mon Mar 29 02:34:17 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 02:34:17 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5
In-Reply-To: <20040326015527.11483a7f@bogomips.optonline.net>
References: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040326052101.GA9012@cybertron.cyth.net>
	<20040326015527.11483a7f@bogomips.optonline.net>
Message-ID: <7C0D06CF-8153-11D8-B4A9-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>

Hi All,

On Mar 26, 2004, at 1:55 AM, Marc Spitzer wrote:

>> What would be neat is if there was a way to share processing among
>> several systems like distributed.net, but for any program.  Or
>> something like that.
>
> I think that is what dragonfly is shooting for.


http://www.apple.com/acg/xgrid/

It's got a nice looking api and a sort of process-dispersion 
interperter.

Different bag than SMP (original thread), but noteworthy- (and it's FUN 
to play with).

Rocket-
.ike




From ike  Mon Mar 29 02:24:29 2004
From: ike (Isaac Levy)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 02:24:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting space
In-Reply-To: <FF145AD7-80CF-11D8-8710-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAV+8Cm3SRZEaOzNHveH4KTAEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<FF145AD7-80CF-11D8-8710-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com>
Message-ID: <1D8FEFD0-8152-11D8-B4A9-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>

Agreed, ROCKIN.

On Mar 28, 2004, at 10:53 AM, Jesse Callaway wrote:

> You're awesome.
>
> On Mar 27, 2004, at 8:42 PM, G. Rosamond wrote:
>
>> we have a potential breakthrough on the meeting space issue. . .




From jesse  Mon Mar 29 09:39:40 2004
From: jesse (jc)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:39:40 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] XGrid
References: <20040325130827.739d87ad@st0wable><!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAA2k6zilVVkEm0FvslxJXPRwEAAAAA@sddi.net><20040326052101.GA9012@cybertron.cyth.net><20040326015527.11483a7f@bogomips.optonline.net>
	<7C0D06CF-8153-11D8-B4A9-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
Message-ID: <000601c4159b$aaef7330$69fea8c0@noc2>

hey I tried emailing the woman at CUNY CIS, but haven't gotten a response.
I'm assuming the April 16 meeting is booked up. I took work off just for the
seminar <darn!>. Do you have any experience w/ XGrid? I'd love to pick your
brain. Just got my first mac last week.

Anyone interested in making an ad-hoc cluster sometime soon?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Isaac Levy" <ike at lesmuug.org>
To: "Marc Spitzer" <mspitze1 at optonline.net>
Cc: "NYC Bug List" <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] CARP in OBSD 3.5


> Hi All,
>
> On Mar 26, 2004, at 1:55 AM, Marc Spitzer wrote:
>
> >> What would be neat is if there was a way to share processing among
> >> several systems like distributed.net, but for any program.  Or
> >> something like that.
> >
> > I think that is what dragonfly is shooting for.
>
>
> http://www.apple.com/acg/xgrid/
>
> It's got a nice looking api and a sort of process-dispersion
> interperter.
>
> Different bag than SMP (original thread), but noteworthy- (and it's FUN
> to play with).
>
> Rocket-
> .ike
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>




From george  Tue Mar 30 07:36:47 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:36:47 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] EZine DN
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAh+HMbZX5QUq8R9gF9CLTEQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200403/nycbug.html

g




From george  Tue Mar 30 11:07:08 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:07:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] May Meeting. . .
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAeGGa9GNh9ECIm26SW5dcsQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

I've given some thought to the May meeting. . .

it seems the "how to make money as a bsd consultant" and related topics
have drawn some interest. . .

thoughts?

g




From okan  Tue Mar 30 11:21:29 2004
From: okan (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:21:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] May Meeting. . .
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAeGGa9GNh9ECIm26SW5dcsQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAeGGa9GNh9ECIm26SW5dcsQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
Message-ID: <20040330162129.GA34052@yinaska.pair.com>

On Tue 2004.03.30 at 11:07 -0500, G. Rosamond wrote:
> I've given some thought to the May meeting. . .
> 
> it seems the "how to make money as a bsd consultant" and related topics
> have drawn some interest. . .
> 
> thoughts?

Works for me, especially since I just resigned from my current job ;)

Okan

> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
Okan Demirmen <okan at demirmen.com>
PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934
PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934



From dsolomon  Tue Mar 30 11:38:42 2004
From: dsolomon (David Solomonoff)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:38:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Cooperative BSD?
Message-ID: <20040330163842.GA92417@aloha.downstate.edu>

Would it be possible (or desirable) to develop
a "Cooperative BSD" similar to "coLinux"?

<http://www.colinux.org/>

>From their website:

Cooperative Linux is the first working free and open source method for optimally running Linux on Microsoft Windows natively. More generally, Cooperative Linux (short-named coLinux) is a port of the Linux kernel that allows it to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single machine. For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows 2000/XP, without using a commercial PC virtualization software such as VMware, in a way which is much more optimal than using any general purpose PC virtualization software.

-- 
David Solomonoff
dsolomon at nycap.rr.com




From pete  Tue Mar 30 12:02:55 2004
From: pete (pete wright)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:02:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] more CARP links
Message-ID: <16604458-826C-11D8-953C-000393BC62B8@nomadlogic.org>

found this on kerneltrap.org

http://www.countersiege.com/doc/pfsync-carp/

also i love how in OSX you can highlight text and just drag it into any 
text field just thought you all should know that ;^)


-pete




From jromero  Tue Mar 30 23:14:44 2004
From: jromero (Jeronimo Romero)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:14:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] quick security question
Message-ID: <9222015b0f388747bf7676b3e43b279f@romero3000.com>



Is there a utility/port that queries some kind of central database and
notifies you of any security advisories/patch releases that your box
might need???






From mspitze1  Tue Mar 30 23:29:28 2004
From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:29:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] quick security question
In-Reply-To: <9222015b0f388747bf7676b3e43b279f@romero3000.com>
References: <9222015b0f388747bf7676b3e43b279f@romero3000.com>
Message-ID: <20040330232928.177c9503@bogomips.optonline.net>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:14:44 -0500
Jeronimo Romero <jromero at romero3000.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Is there a utility/port that queries some kind of central database and
> notifies you of any security advisories/patch releases that your box
> might need???

on freebsd take a look at security/portaudit, it does it for ports.
It is not very fine grained but it does let you know where the
potential problems are.

marc

> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From lists  Wed Mar 31 12:39:09 2004
From: lists (michael)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:39:09 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org>
	<20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040331123909.1f873114@delinux.abwatley.com>

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:28:25 +0000 (GMT)
Francisco Reyes <lists at natserv.com> wrote:

> Got two interesting prospects from the FreeBSD-ISP list.
> 
> http://payquake.com
> http://www.paysystems.com
> 

I've been revisiting this lately.  

If I wanted to sell something online (a widget, a recurring charge
subscription service, or whatever) I *could* just go to Visa, MC, AMEX
and apply for a merchant number.  I would then have to create and
maintain all these relationships.   Not a big deal.  Businesses have
been doing this in droves for decades.

I first looked to contrast PayPal to accepting charge cards.

PayPal requires buyers to register.. a big deal if your market is not
mostly techies.   I think that PayPal processes in an omnibus account
and requires you to go get your money and move it to your checking
account. I think that PayPal takes the customer off site to do the
transaction. While I may disagree: the perception that I have personally
heard among non-techies is that using PayPal is 'small-time' and does
not make a business look polished.

But, hey, PayPal is easy and I like them.  This is what they do for a
living.  Many people already have an account and are familiar with the
routine. 

Now on to payment services...

The value-add for payment services is the "one-stop-shop" solution.
- they set up with all the credit cards
- they process the charges
- they deposit the money in your checking
- they keep the card numbers on their servers
- they offer other value add services like recurring charges
- they offer prepared statements, etc
- they take a substantial percent of sales as a fee

That is *IF* they will do business with you at all.  

They all require an introductory application before they will even
answer questions.  They want to do a risk assessment.  While this is
reasonable, I got the idea that business is not full of cheer in that
industry.   

I'll use one of the firms Francisco Reyes found (above)  as the example.
I called them up yesterday to ask a few general questions about their
service. To wit: I never got any answers. The salesman barely engaged
me, admitting to doing something else while on my call.  Armed only with
my first name, he spoke voluminously about risk, then matter-of-factly
doubled the prices listed on the web site. Then and ONLY THEN did he
asked me what I wanted to sell. I was floored, this was appauling
service. I said I just had a few simple questions about his service. He
wouldn't answer them, saying it would be a waste of everyone's time
until I filled out a application. I, too, wanted to end this phone call
so, I agreed.  Before he shuffled me off the phone he asked for my email
address so he could send me an app. Three hours later I got an email
stating they would not do business with us and recommended 2 other
firms.  I didn't even fill out the app yet... oh well.  Dazed, confused,
and with a little laugh; I scratch them off my list.

Another vendor I'm looking at: http://www.trustcommerce.com/.  I found
them by looking at OS Commerce.  They are well regarded.. so I
checked what they use. http://www.oscommerce.com/about/gateways

Has anyone else been down this road before?
Michael


-- 
---



From hans  Wed Mar 31 13:01:51 2004
From: hans (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:01:51 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F870132B5A2@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>


> Has anyone else been down this road before?

Of course... just doing it now, actually :)

There are two ways to bill on the Internet (web):

-- processors (2checkout,paypal,etc)
-- merchant account

The former handles a lot of the gooey work for you; reoccurring
payments, interfacing with credit card gateways, etc.  However, their
fees are higher, and there can often be hidden charges, strange
behavior, delays in getting payment, etc.

If you're really doing e-commerce, you'll want a merchant account with a
gateway backend (like authorize.net).  This is what I'm setting up now.
It gives you total control, instant access to the money, but has much
more complexity, and is harder to get (there's an approval process, bank
accounts, etc).

---
Hans Zaunere
President
New York PHP
http://nyphp.org




From bsd  Wed Mar 31 13:21:48 2004
From: bsd (Kevin Reiter)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:21:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net><B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org><20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<20040331123909.1f873114@delinux.abwatley.com>
Message-ID: <004501c4174d$084d2290$0600a8c0@olympus>


----- Original Message ----- 
 On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:28:25 +0000 (GMT)
 Francisco Reyes <lists at natserv.com> wrote:
 
 
> They all require an introductory application before they will even
> answer questions.  They want to do a risk assessment.  While this is
> reasonable, I got the idea that business is not full of cheer in that
> industry.   

I've been working on this recently, and ever since I got a new office phone, it hasn't stopped ringing with offers for merchant accounts.

Here's what I've been finding out lately:

-Visa and MasterCard actually do want your business.  AMEX on the other hand thinks they are above everyone else, and prove it by zapping you with an average discount rate of over 3 percent (compared to Visa/MC at 1.59 percent) and a higher transaction fee.

-Normally, there's a ton of setup/application fees involved, but everyone I've been speaking to in the last few weeks is running some kind of promotion, waiving all setup/processing/application fees.

-The discount rates and transaction fees are cheaper if you're a retail merchant, or if you physically swipe the credit card to complete the transaction.  The figures I've been receiving are as much as 1.3 percent higher if 80% of your transactions are "keyed" - meaning you manually enter the cc number at your terminal, or have a website you use to process your orders.

-Transaction fees range from .20 to .35 per transaction, based on whether or not you're going to be considered a "retail" merchant (swiping cards.)

-Discount rates vary (and are going up effective 1 April), but are usually somewhere around 1.59 for Visa and MC.  AMEX is over 3 (I've seen 3.5 a lot recently) and Discover is about .10 higher than Visa/MC.

-"Smart Cards" are being issued starting this month, and unless you ahve a terminal capable of reading these new beauties, you'll have to spring for another machine if you're going to be a retail merchant.

-A statement fee of around $10 is the norm.  It's worth noting that the processing company sends you a 1099, and includes the statement fees every month, which (I'm told) is a write-off, along with the transaction & processing fees.

I'm signing up with a company called American Paywise (www.americanpaywise.com) and they seem to be on the up and up.  My monthly fees are going to be about $75 per month, which includes the statement fee of $10 and the equipment lease of $59.99 for a Telento T-1 (which allows you to print custom gift cards and other goodies right from the terminal - see http://www.americanpaywise.com/Products.asp)  The monthly minimum in transactions I need to do are $25 per month or I get stuck paying that on top of everything else per month.

If anyone else has any info, please spread the word...

-Kevin





From paul  Wed Mar 31 15:57:18 2004
From: paul (Paul Dlug)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:57:18 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Job Opening: Systems Administrator, Ridge, NY
Message-ID: <FF749CEC-8355-11D8-935E-000393BB3E22@aps.org>

I have an opening for a systems administrator, the job description and 
skill requirements are below. We're a big FreeBSD shop, we run it on 
servers and workstations, most of our end users are being migrated to 
Mac OS X as well.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me. The office 
location may not be ideal for many people but for someone looking to do 
what they love everyday it's the perfect job.

--Paul


The American Physical Society (APS) is seeking a systems administrator 
for our editorial office. This is an exciting opportunity to become 
part of a small team responsible for the system, network and 
application infrastructure at a medium sized business. This position is 
located in Ridge, NY (LIE Exit 68), local candidates only, no 
contractors or consultants need apply.

	Responsibilities:
	- Maintenance of FreeBSD and Solaris servers including network 
installs, patching, application installation, performance tuning and 
troubleshooting.
	- Lead role in our deployment of Mac OS X desktops across our 
organization. This will include building an infrastructure to support 
this initiative and working hand-in-hand with our support staff 
implement this rollout.
	- Application installation and configuration (sendmail, OpenLDAP, 
CUPS, StarOffice, etc.)
	- Application monitoring using NTop, Nagios, MRTG, SNMP, etc.
	- Tape backup using Legato or other backup software
	- Maintenance of apache web servers
	- Assisting users and support staff with troubleshooting
	- Automation of tasks using cfengine and perl scripts
	- On-call rotation
	- Some physical tasks (lifting equipment, rackmounting servers, etc.).
	- Must have excellent verbal and written communication skills
	
	Skills/Experience:
	- Unix systems administration (FreeBSD and solaris preferred)
	- Experience with a language such as perl for scripting absolutely 
required
	- Experience with NFS, DNS, LDAP, TCP/IP, CUPS
	- Experience with mail services (sendmail, postfix, SMTP)
	- Experience with backup software
	- Mac OS X administration a plus
	- Experience with radmind a big plus

	Please send all resumes/code samples to: paul at aps.org




From bsd  Wed Mar 31 16:35:24 2004
From: bsd (Kevin Reiter)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:35:24 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net><B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org><20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net><20040331123909.1f873114@delinux.abwatley.com>
	<004501c4174d$084d2290$0600a8c0@olympus>
Message-ID: <000f01c41768$140cd740$0600a8c0@olympus>

If anyone wants to call and check it out, here's my contact info for American Paywise Corp.:

Doug Dillman
(866)928-1040  ext. 239

I just faxed back my application, and Doug said if you mention my name, he'll expidite your application (if you apply.)  Currently, there's no application fees.

http://www.americanpaywise.com


Kevin Reiter
NJCS





From bsd  Wed Mar 31 17:09:46 2004
From: bsd (Kevin Reiter)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:09:46 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CORRECTION to Internet billing
References: <20040317130216.B13349@zoraida.natserv.net><B4A4BC1E-783D-11D8-8DA0-0003939A7A96@lesmuug.org><20040317192504.A15270@zoraida.natserv.net><20040331123909.1f873114@delinux.abwatley.com><004501c4174d$084d2290$0600a8c0@olympus>
	<000f01c41768$140cd740$0600a8c0@olympus>
Message-ID: <001d01c4176c$e1201720$0600a8c0@olympus>

> If anyone wants to call and check it out, here's my contact info for American Paywise Corp.:
> 
> Doug Dillman
> (866)928-1040  ext. 239
> 

My apologies - the correct number is:

(866)928-1050  ext. 239


1040 is his fax number...





From george  Wed Mar 31 18:10:00 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:10:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: BSD Success Stories 
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAZsPgaYnnH02bnKgnC6YvwQEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org 
>[mailto:owner-freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Dru
>Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:51 PM
>To: freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org
>Subject: BSD Success Stories 
>
>
>O'Reilly is in the process of creating a "BSD Success Stories" 
>booklet to
>be given away at trade shows, conferences, etc. For those of 
>you who are
>familiar with the "Perl Success Stories", it will be following 
>a similar
>format. You can get an idea of the types of stories at:
>
>	http://perl.oreilly.com/news/success_stories.html
>
>If anyone is interested in contributing a success story, please contact
>chromatic at oreilly.com. If we can get five or six fairly 
>quickly, there's a
>good chance the booklets will be ready for BSDCan (www.bsdcan.org) :-)
>
>Dru
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>freebsd-advocacy at freebsd.org mailing list
>http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
>To unsubscribe, send any mail to 
>"freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
>




From george  Wed Mar 31 21:58:14 2004
From: george (G. Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:58:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: Job Posting
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAArkGSavOq8keV8+UGkzuUTgEAAAAA@sddi.net>

 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wei-Yeh Lee [mailto:weiyeh at columbia.edu] 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:57 PM
>To: dummy at lists.nycbug.org
>Subject: Job Posting
>
>What is the appropriate way to post a job to your group?
>
>/weiyeh
>
>Location: New York City
>
>Length: Long term
>
>Position Description:
>The new hire will be a member of the Unix team, and will play 
>a key role 
>in the design and development of the new Linux OS platform as well as 
>development, configuration and troubleshooting utilities for both new 
>and existing systems.
>
>The candidate must have a good working knowledge of Unix including 
>Solaris, AIX, and Linux. Knowledge of shell programming (e.g. Korn, 
>Perl, TCL, etc), development methodologies, provisioning and packaging 
>approaches, and systems mgmt techniques are also prerequisites. The 
>position requires good communication skills as interaction across 
>various organizations within the firm is a requirement of the role.
>
>Technical Requirements
>
>Essential:
>. High-level Linux skills (RedHat Advanced Server, RedHat Network)
>. High-level Unix skills (Solaris and/or AIX)
>. Programming and/or scripting (e.g. Perl, Korn, TCL, C etc.)
>. High-level system performance analysis
>. In depth systems mgmt techniques (including large scale 
>provisioning, 
>patching, monitoring, capacity management, automation etc.)
>. Working knowledge of enterprise storage configurations 
>(preferably EMC)
>
>Desirable:
>. 5+ years of experience implementing and managing large scale Unix 
>deployments
>. Working knowledge of system management packages such as OpenView
>. Working knowledge of scheduling applications (e.g. Autosys) 
>and backup 
>applications (e.g Legato)
>. Working knowledge of SQL on Sybase and/or UDB
>
>
>




From lists  Wed Mar 31 18:12:55 2004
From: lists (lists at natserv.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:12:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Internet billing
In-Reply-To: <20040331225910.C40197@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F870132B5A2@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net>
	<20040331225910.C40197@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040331231209.P40197@zoraida.natserv.net>

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Hans Zaunere wrote:

> If you're really doing e-commerce, you'll want a merchant account with a
> gateway backend (like authorize.net).  This is what I'm setting up now.
> It gives you total control, instant access to the money, but has much
> more complexity, and is harder to get (there's an approval process, bank
> accounts, etc).

 If you are a startup it may be difficult to go that route.
 I once tried and got my applications denied twice. After that I basically
 decided, at that time, that I had so little to bill online that I would
 just ask people for checks. :-)

 I think the merchant account route may work for an established company
 with a track record and some stable monthly volume.

ps sorry for resend.. sent with id not subscribed to list before..



From lists  Wed Mar 31 18:13:35 2004
From: lists (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:13:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] May Meeting. . .
In-Reply-To: <20040331230452.T40197@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAPGTn3jE8jEyddWJf/oR4JcKAAAAQAAAAeGGa9GNh9ECIm26SW5dcsQEAAAAA@sddi.net>
	<20040331230452.T40197@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <20040331231306.T40197@zoraida.natserv.net>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, G. Rosamond wrote:

> it seems the "how to make money as a bsd consultant" and related topics
> have drawn some interest. . .

Count me in too.
Trying to figure out just that since last January. :-)
Although I must admin I help my small clients with other technologies too.

As sad as it may be sometimes there is no choice. I have a client I have
been helping for close to 5 years. His small server is FreeBSD and his
firewall is BSD derived. He has some programs he use from finantial
institutions and they only run on windows. He has even asked them if they
plan to have Linux/BSD versions in the future and they flat out told him
now. He also has a number of windows programs for his industry with no
equivalent in the open source world.


ps Sorry for resend. Previously sent with ID not in list.