[nycbug-talk] Re: BSD Success Stories (fwd)

O_Sleep o_sleep
Fri Sep 24 08:43:29 EDT 2004


The roadblock I have been running into, for FreeBSD adoption, is that 
it's not certified to run with certain apps.  I am not really sure how 
to get around this one except install FreeBSD on the machines with the 
excuse it's easier to administer and fall back on RedHat or SUSE when 
required.  Have you been able to convince any companies to support 
running their app in linux abstraction layer since it is basically 


On Sep 24, 2004, at 7:22 AM, Dru wrote:

> Hi guys,
> I've got lots to say but can only address a few points before heading 
> out to work. More later.
>> I happily disagree completely with the word 'fraction', so far as web 
>> hosting and servers go- (the desktop is another thing altogether).
>> So, for this survey, (which is arguably a survey that really matters) 
>> the BSD's are not represented as a fraction at all- and end up 
>> representing pretty hardcore in the top half of that list, when 
>> viewed according to performance.
>> I don't know why people buy less BSD books- there may be a lack of 
>> advocacy out there, but to be really honest- does anyone in the BSD's 
>> really care about the BS that comes with fame?
>> For example, who really wants someone writing some lame article about 
>> the BSD's in eWeek or that ilk?
>> (I'm referencing the thread from a few days ago, 
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2004-September/002647.html )
>> IT managers and CIO's read that stuff, not tech books.  Do we want to 
>> get before their eyes in that context?  Is that really best for the 
>> BSD's?  It sure would bolster 'real world' business support... but at 
>> what cost to what drives the BSD's?
> All of these points are related and the key word is "perception". 
> We're techies and are concerned with quality. We're often asked for 
> our input but we're rarely the decision makers. We're rarely the fly 
> on the wall when the marketing machine comes knocking at our place of 
> work and the deals are made regarding how the IT budget is spent.
> That above article (which I've been chewing my lip on all week because 
> I haven't had time to join the discussion) is "exposure". All of those 
> little mis-informations add up to "perception". When they're not 
> rebutted (keeping in mind that rebuttals tend to be one-liners buried 
> somewhere in the mag), they're the only perception that gets out 
> there. That perception is seen by our bosses and by non-users in 
> general. And it's a vicious cycle which feeds on itself.
> Here's a smattering of _one week's_ perceptions I've had personal 
> contact with:
> "There's actually drivers available for BSD? I thought hardware 
> support was
> non-existent." "There's actually software for BSD? How hard is it to 
> install?" "What do you mean there's NO certifications for BSD? Every 
> company and his dog has a certification."
> I'll say much more on that last point this weekend. While the BSD 
> community has been arguing the merits of certification the big 
> companies have been creating a "value" structure with certs. As 
> techies, we smirk at that worthless piece of paper. As businessmen we 
> should realize that they really mean value as in dollars. Example: 
> Cisco, MS, et al give
> sizable discounts on their support _if_ x number of employees are 
> certified.
> Entire spending policies are written around this business fact.
> And the vicious cycle? We don't have as many drivers because we don't 
> have the user base. We don't have the user base because of out-dated 
> perceptions. And the perceptions that are true aren't being addressed.
> I'm off to work.
> Dru
>>>> I can only speak for myself so I went through my book receipts for 
>>>> this year. I've bought 8
>>>>  tech books, none of them BSD. (If I don't count the Annaliese 
>>>> Anderson one I've promised to buy for a former student but haven't 
>>>> had the time to order yet). So this weekend I'm going to order Greg
>>>> Lehey's latest to replace my well-thumbed 1st edition as well as 
>>>> McKusick's latest.
>> I agree, as this may have to do with things like INSANELY GREAT MAN 
>> PAGES, and projects like the FreeBSD Handbook.
>>>> ,
>>>> On a related, it's been a long week, topic, I had lunch with some 
>>>> execs of a fortune 500 company today. (I've had an ongoing contract 
>>>> teaching their employees Linux+.) Of course, BSD always comes up in 
>>>> class. Not just because of yours truly, but because the students 
>>>> are current BSD admins whose company's product line is migrating 
>>>> from FreeBSD 3.x to Redhat 9. Many of the employees requested that 
>>>> the company pay for a FreeBSD course. The execs were willing and 
>>>> wanted to know the name of the BSD certifications that were 
>>>> available. Their training budget is related to certifications: no 
>>>> certification, no training money...
>>> Right. . .I do think it's worth creating a NYCBUG mailing list on 
>>> the topic of a BSD certification.  Certainly BSD Mall is in a good 
>>> position to sponsor, as they have a respected name in the community. 
>>>  We can get a list of necessities for a certification brewed up 
>>> through a dedicated mailing list.
>> If there's interest in this, that's great- but I for one have had to 
>> work with way too many techs with excellent certs, who didn't know a 
>> nic from their ear.
>> I'll leave it at that.
>>>> O'Reilly's response and this company's response should be a very 
>>>> big wakeup call to anyone interested in BSD. I won't be posting to 
>>>> advocacy until my double-shifts are over next Thursday. I need time 
>>>> to think and rest so I won't be overly irritated when that advocacy 
>>>> thread fizzles into nothingness.
>>> understandable. . .particularly for someone who can quickly find out 
>>> the books they purchased in the last year. . .
>>> <g>
>>> <snip>
>> Rocket-
>> .ike
>> --
>> P.S. My email address has changed with the incorporation of my 
>> business, though structuredsystems email will continue to reach me.  
>> I can now be reached at:
>> isaac at diversaform.com
>> http://diversaform.com
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