From driodeiros Mon Aug 1 02:13:59 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 23:13:59 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] My first FreeBSD Job. In-Reply-To: <20050731213114.S73302@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050731213114.S73302@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050801061359.GA7505@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 09:34:55PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > The pay is about 1/3 of my last job and about the same as what I was doing > as an independant consultant.. however it's really great to work on > something one loves. I totally agree. Congratulations! From steve.rieger Mon Aug 1 07:30:44 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:30:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp Message-ID: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> question i have these two lines in my /etc/rc.local ifconfig bge0 192.168.254.226 netmask 255.255.0.0 alias & /usr/local/sbin/ucarp -v 1 -p passwd -a 192.168.254.226 -P -s 192.168.254.228 & do i need the ifconfig alias or not. it seems that the .226 ip does not get assigned unless i put it in there, also even though i have -P in the ucarp line, the secondary server still shows up as master in the logs. what is i doin wrong ? -- Steve Rieger AIM chozrim ICQ 53956607 Cell 646 335 8915 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From ike Mon Aug 1 08:51:46 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:51:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp In-Reply-To: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> References: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> Message-ID: <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> Hi Steve, On Aug 1, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Steve Rieger wrote: > question > > i have these two lines in my /etc/rc.local > > ifconfig bge0 192.168.254.226 netmask 255.255.0.0 alias & > /usr/local/sbin/ucarp -v 1 -p passwd -a 192.168.254.226 -P -s > 192.168.254.228 & > > > > do i need the ifconfig alias or not. it seems that the .226 ip does > not get assigned unless i put it in there, > > > also even though i have -P in the ucarp line, the secondary server > still shows up as master in the logs. what is i doin wrong ? What is the problem exactly? And what OS are you using UCarp with? FreeBSD? NetBSD? Rocket- .ike From steve.rieger Mon Aug 1 08:59:14 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:59:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp In-Reply-To: <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> References: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Aug 1, 2005, at 8:51 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Steve, > > On Aug 1, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Steve Rieger wrote: > > >> question >> >> i have these two lines in my /etc/rc.local >> >> ifconfig bge0 192.168.254.226 netmask 255.255.0.0 alias & >> /usr/local/sbin/ucarp -v 1 -p passwd -a 192.168.254.226 -P -s >> 192.168.254.228 & >> >> >> >> do i need the ifconfig alias or not. it seems that the .226 ip >> does not get assigned unless i put it in there, >> >> >> also even though i have -P in the ucarp line, the secondary server >> still shows up as master in the logs. what is i doin wrong ? >> > > What is the problem exactly? > > And what OS are you using UCarp with? FreeBSD? NetBSD? > > Rocket- > .ike > fbsd 5.4 the problem is that my backup server .228 comes up as mastrer in the logs, but i dont think that it actually comes up as masrter. also when using ucarp to bind a virtual ip addy should one use ifconfig alias first to bind the ip to both boxes or will ucarp bind them ass needed. This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From ike Mon Aug 1 09:25:58 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:25:58 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp In-Reply-To: References: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: Hi Steve, On Aug 1, 2005, at 8:59 AM, Steve Rieger wrote: >>> question >>> >>> i have these two lines in my /etc/rc.local >>> >>> ifconfig bge0 192.168.254.226 netmask 255.255.0.0 alias & >>> /usr/local/sbin/ucarp -v 1 -p passwd -a 192.168.254.226 -P -s >>> 192.168.254.228 & >>> >>> >>> >>> do i need the ifconfig alias or not. it seems that the .226 ip >>> does not get assigned unless i put it in there, >>> >>> >>> also even though i have -P in the ucarp line, the secondary >>> server still shows up as master in the logs. what is i doin wrong ? >>> >>> >> >> What is the problem exactly? >> >> And what OS are you using UCarp with? FreeBSD? NetBSD? >> >> Rocket- >> .ike >> >> > fbsd 5.4 > > the problem is that my backup server .228 comes up as mastrer in > the logs, but i dont think that it actually comes up as masrter. > > also when using ucarp to bind a virtual ip addy should one use > ifconfig alias first to bind the ip to both boxes or will ucarp > bind them ass needed. I'm not so certain if ucarp is really all that stable/cared-for any more, insomuch as there's full-on system-level CARP in FreeBSD now, so I'd seriously not muck about too much with ucarp unless you have to. What about just trying carp as-is (i.e. is there any reason you need ucarp in particular?) Rocket- .ike From steve.rieger Mon Aug 1 09:36:33 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:36:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp In-Reply-To: References: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <9A318146-FF08-45DC-B1E5-DE6E610DB58D@tbwachiat.com> > > I'm not so certain if ucarp is really all that stable/cared-for any > more, insomuch as there's full-on system-level CARP in FreeBSD now, > so I'd seriously not muck about too much with ucarp unless you have > to. What about just trying carp as-is (i.e. is there any reason > you need ucarp in particular?) > > Rocket- > .ike for some reason carp is not in my kernel, is it supposed to be there by default? This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From lists Mon Aug 1 10:35:18 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] My first FreeBSD Job. In-Reply-To: <20050801061359.GA7505@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> References: <20050731213114.S73302@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050801061359.GA7505@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Message-ID: <20050801103119.B81502@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, David Rio Deiros wrote: > On Sun, Jul 31, 2005 at 09:34:55PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> The pay is about 1/3 of my last job and about the same as what I was doing >> as an independant consultant.. however it's really great to work on >> something one loves. > > I totally agree. Congratulations! Thanks. I enjoy the challenge too. So far have had to put almost no "fires" which is great as it gives me time to learn the architecture/setup. One of the things I am trying to do is to document what they have. Not only it helps me learn, but will serve everyone to more clearly understand how everything works. From o_sleep Mon Aug 1 10:36:45 2005 From: o_sleep (Bjorn Nelson) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:36:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ucarp In-Reply-To: <9A318146-FF08-45DC-B1E5-DE6E610DB58D@tbwachiat.com> References: <79CE49B0-1DE0-40CA-9E44-C9A9C0AA1201@tbwachiat.com> <42BA97A9-DD85-4E8B-9643-CE355124069E@lesmuug.org> <9A318146-FF08-45DC-B1E5-DE6E610DB58D@tbwachiat.com> Message-ID: <9B4076F7-121A-4087-89BC-2F8771563051@belovedarctos.com> Steve, On Aug 1, 2005, at 9:36 AM, Steve Rieger wrote: > > for some reason carp is not in my kernel, is it supposed to be > there by default? For some reason it isn't in GENERIC 5.4. You have to add the line to the kernel config: device carp and recompile. -Bjorn From george Mon Aug 1 15:26:52 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 15:26:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mbone multicast audio stream Message-ID: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> anybody setup an audio stream with mbone? I think that means icecast + multicast software so the bandwidth cost is for the stream, not cost of a stream per client. Do I have that right? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From ike Mon Aug 1 16:54:48 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:54:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? Message-ID: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> Hey All, I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels about 'Trusted Computing' in general. I know what the FSF thinks of Trusted Computing, what do the BSD people on this list think about it? URLS and thoughts from any perspective would be most welcome here... Rocket- .ike -- PS: What spurned my questions: Today, Apple's upcoming DRM for their hardware platform got Slashdotted, and aside from all the whining and moaning, it's a move that's making me (a long time Mac fan) sadly want to move away from the platform altogether- and make certain Apple knows how and why I feel how I do. Slashdt: 'Mac OS X Intel Kernel Uses DRM' http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/08/01/0421248.shtml? tid=179&tid=118&tid=3 'Trusted Platform Module 101' http://www.osx86.classicbeta.com/wiki/index.php/TPM From spork Mon Aug 1 17:13:46 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Jim Brown wrote: > Hi Charles, > > What does 'lots of dns work' mean? Can you give some I/O stats? > What DNS software are you running? What is the hw platform? > How many zones? Avg size of a zone? Well, during a "lull", we were at about 600 queries/second, and it spikes up much higher than that. This is djbdns, specifically dnscache for a huge amount of boxes doing lots of mail deliveries. Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, various dual xeon). The box having the network issues is the first one we bought, so it is unique and may have a different revision of the fxp chips than the newer boxes. Just upgraded it to 4.11 in hopes that I'll find some "silent fix". I have never, ever seen a box drop characters in an ssh session before - my understanding is that TCP should just keep retransmitting and there should never be bogus/missing data in TCP. > Some general thoughts: > > - eliminate all other non-essential services We've split this off to two other boxes, and will eventually dedicate a few machines just to dns, but at this point even with much less load I see the same symptoms. The box also acts as a tertiary mxer (very low volume), nagios monitor, and a repository for internal docs, etc. > - re-nice named > - try redesigning your DNS service to include multiple servers > and load balance between them yep. :) > - BIND (if that's what you are using) is a notorious memory hog > However it's still my favorite DNS server. > Increase memory to the limit. We've got dnscache in check, and we're not cpu or memory bound, so it's a bit of a mystery... > I know it's not what you want to hear, but when I made the > switch from 4.10 to 5.4 i was *impressed* with the performance > under heavy load. I tested using: We are bringing up three more boxes this week, so I may steal one to do some testing. > X+KDE with multiple konsole sessions: > > - multiple FTPs > - two different stress sessions, one memory, one disk > - a loop of 'make buildworld' > - a loop of 'make buildkernel' > - a loop of 'ls -alR /' > - ssh session to remote host > > The desktop was still usable, and I didn't lose any ssh characters on remote sessions. > > IBM T41 with 512 MB. Wow, sounds good! After less than 24 hours of being up, here's some netstat stats, does anything in the tcp or udp section stand out as being very strange? tcp: 2390742 packets sent 1388685 data packets (347633967 bytes) 3659 data packets (755463 bytes) retransmitted 0 resends initiated by MTU discovery 726967 ack-only packets (396528 delayed) 0 URG only packets 0 window probe packets 22022 window update packets 250228 control packets 2342977 packets received 1483244 acks (for 347618230 bytes) 101958 duplicate acks 3 acks for unsent data 1610847 packets (441601679 bytes) received in-sequence 2681 completely duplicate packets (828736 bytes) 36 old duplicate packets 117 packets with some dup. data (36072 bytes duped) 19740 out-of-order packets (15168338 bytes) 1 packet (0 bytes) of data after window 0 window probes 14556 window update packets 26019 packets received after close 63 discarded for bad checksums 0 discarded for bad header offset fields 0 discarded because packet too short 119904 connection requests 19459 connection accepts 13477 bad connection attempts 0 listen queue overflows 136653 connections established (including accepts) 173934 connections closed (including 594 drops) 1703 connections updated cached RTT on close 1703 connections updated cached RTT variance on close 493 connections updated cached ssthresh on close 406 embryonic connections dropped 1475400 segments updated rtt (of 1463308 attempts) 15465 retransmit timeouts 123 connections dropped by rexmit timeout 0 persist timeouts 0 connections dropped by persist timeout 15 keepalive timeouts 14 keepalive probes sent 1 connection dropped by keepalive 2101 correct ACK header predictions 510881 correct data packet header predictions 19868 syncache entries added 1262 retransmitted 984 dupsyn 173 dropped 19459 completed 0 bucket overflow 0 cache overflow 107 reset 234 stale 0 aborted 0 badack 68 unreach 0 zone failures 0 cookies sent 0 cookies received udp: 1819407 datagrams received 0 with incomplete header 0 with bad data length field 26 with bad checksum 323 with no checksum 7068 dropped due to no socket 150 broadcast/multicast datagrams dropped due to no socket 0 dropped due to full socket buffers 0 not for hashed pcb 1812163 delivered 2250035 datagrams output I'm hoping to get a clearer picture of what's going on before I bring this up on freebsd-network. Thanks, Charles > Best Regards, > Jim B. > > > > From lists Mon Aug 1 18:06:32 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20050801180428.Q83786@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Isaac Levy wrote: > I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels about > 'Trusted Computing' in general. I had not researched the topic, but after looking at a few links I think I have an opinion.... > .. sadly want to move away from the platform altogether- >and make certain Apple knows how and why I feel how I do. My opinion is basically simmilar to yours.. I will NOT buy any machines using this trusted computing architecture and will recommend the same to my employer friends and anyone I know... From mspitzer Mon Aug 1 18:16:05 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:16:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <20050801180428.Q83786@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> <20050801180428.Q83786@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508011516406bae3b@mail.gmail.com> On 8/1/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Isaac Levy wrote: > > > I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels about > > 'Trusted Computing' in general. > > I had not researched the topic, but after looking at a few links I think I > have an opinion.... > > > .. sadly want to move away from the platform altogether- > >and make certain Apple knows how and why I feel how I do. > > My opinion is basically simmilar to yours.. I will NOT buy any machines > using this trusted computing architecture and will recommend the same to > my employer friends and anyone I know... Seconed, its bad shit. One interesting thing is how the government and major corporations are going to respond to their loss of security in their servers and desktops. Also keep in mind that there may be laws that prohibit the software having special rights, just a guess but we have so many complex laws surely some apply(weather they were ment to or not). marc > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From george Mon Aug 1 18:19:30 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:19:30 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050801221930.GC17134@sta.duo> On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 05:13:46PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >We've got dnscache in check, and we're not cpu or memory bound, so it's a >bit of a mystery... typically, the dnscache bottleneck is the 'generation' of logs, so even if you send them to dev null, they can slow the system down, there are some 3rd party patches for this but not sure where. Not sure about your problem, have you considered the router as a point of fail and the missing ssh chars a result of typing blind? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From george Mon Aug 1 18:26:13 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:26:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050801222613.GD17134@sta.duo> On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 05:13:46PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: >Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, various >dual xeon). The box having the network issues is the first one we bought, >so it is unique and may have a different revision of the fxp chips than >the newer boxes. Just upgraded it to 4.11 in hopes that I'll find some >"silent fix". I thought you need 5.x for SMP? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From alex Mon Aug 1 18:27:15 2005 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: <20050801222613.GD17134@sta.duo> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 05:13:46PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, > >various dual xeon). The box having the network issues is the first one > >we bought, so it is unique and may have a different revision of the fxp > >chips than the newer boxes. Just upgraded it to 4.11 in hopes that > >I'll find some "silent fix". > > I thought you need 5.x for SMP? No. 5.x has fine-grained SMP. 4.* has coarse-grained SMP (only a little bit better than "big kernel lock"). -alex From spork Mon Aug 1 18:30:14 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: <20050801222613.GD17134@sta.duo> References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <20050801222613.GD17134@sta.duo> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 05:13:46PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, various >> dual xeon). The box having the network issues is the first one we bought, >> so it is unique and may have a different revision of the fxp chips than >> the newer boxes. Just upgraded it to 4.11 in hopes that I'll find some >> "silent fix". > > I thought you need 5.x for SMP? Nope, we've had SMP since 3.x. 5.x is just where they gave it a makeover. Charles > // George > > > -- > George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < > http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From spork Mon Aug 1 18:34:04 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: <20050801221930.GC17134@sta.duo> References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <20050801221930.GC17134@sta.duo> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 05:13:46PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> >> We've got dnscache in check, and we're not cpu or memory bound, so it's a >> bit of a mystery... > > typically, the dnscache bottleneck is the 'generation' of logs, so even > if you send them to dev null, they can slow the system down, there are > some 3rd party patches for this but not sure where. Hmmm, I'll have to look at that. We are logging (via multilog). > Not sure about your problem, have you considered the router as a point > of fail and the missing ssh chars a result of typing blind? We've got 11 other boxes on the same subnet/switch and have no such issues. You'll literally be in the middle of typing and then everything stalls, but what you've typed is simply gone, not delayed. Very weird. Thanks, Charles > // George > > > -- > George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < > http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From jpb Mon Aug 1 22:06:03 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 22:06:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050802020603.GA12013@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Charles Sprickman [2005-08-01 17:13]: > On Sun, 31 Jul 2005, Jim Brown wrote: > > >Hi Charles, > > > >What does 'lots of dns work' mean? Can you give some I/O stats? > >What DNS software are you running? What is the hw platform? > >How many zones? Avg size of a zone? > > Well, during a "lull", we were at about 600 queries/second, and it spikes > up much higher than that. This is djbdns, specifically dnscache for a > huge amount of boxes doing lots of mail deliveries. > Ok, that's a good chunk of DNS. BSD should be able to handle OK, but i'd try to bring it down by design into the 200-300/sec range, or even lower. Spikes with flash mobs can get nasty with DNS. > Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, various > dual xeon). The box having the network issues is the first one we bought, > so it is unique and may have a different revision of the fxp chips than > the newer boxes. Just upgraded it to 4.11 in hopes that I'll find some > "silent fix". I have never, ever seen a box drop characters in an ssh > session before - my understanding is that TCP should just keep > retransmitting and there should never be bogus/missing data in TCP. Ok, here's something to consider. Serial communications (and network too) are typically full-duplex communications. (Telnet actually has two modes - character-at-a-time and line-at-a-time.) ssh is typically character-at-a-time, but because the communication is full duplex, what you type locally actually gets sent to the remote host, where it is interpreted and echoed back (under application control). The echo back is actually what you see. So- consider that possiblility that the characters are reaching the remote host ok, but the echo back (what you actually see) is getting dropped every now and then by something in the path from the remote back to you. (Note- you can easily check this by running a sniffer and watching the traffic filtered for just ssh, or telnet. You should see two packets for every character you type- one going to the remote and one coming from the remote. You'll actually also see TCP ACK packets too, but they are part of the protocol, not part of your application session.) > > > After less than 24 hours of being up, here's some netstat stats, does > anything in the tcp or udp section stand out as being very strange? I'll assume that it wasn't running 600 queries/sec for all 24 hours. That would be around 51.8MB udp traffic, which is not shown below. Nothing really jumps out at me here: 13477 bad connection attempts seems a little high for 24 hours but if your directly on the net (no firewall) this is probably about right 250228 control packets also seems high. Might indicate some problem with window sizes or some other TCP parameter. You have one control for about every 10 packets. > > tcp: > 2390742 packets sent > 1388685 data packets (347633967 bytes) > 3659 data packets (755463 bytes) retransmitted > 0 resends initiated by MTU discovery > 726967 ack-only packets (396528 delayed) > 0 URG only packets > 0 window probe packets > 22022 window update packets > 250228 control packets > 2342977 packets received > 1483244 acks (for 347618230 bytes) > 101958 duplicate acks > 3 acks for unsent data > 1610847 packets (441601679 bytes) received in-sequence > 2681 completely duplicate packets (828736 bytes) > 36 old duplicate packets > 117 packets with some dup. data (36072 bytes duped) > 19740 out-of-order packets (15168338 bytes) > 1 packet (0 bytes) of data after window > 0 window probes > 14556 window update packets > 26019 packets received after close > 63 discarded for bad checksums > 0 discarded for bad header offset fields > 0 discarded because packet too short > 119904 connection requests > 19459 connection accepts > 13477 bad connection attempts > 0 listen queue overflows > 136653 connections established (including accepts) > 173934 connections closed (including 594 drops) > 1703 connections updated cached RTT on close > 1703 connections updated cached RTT variance on close > 493 connections updated cached ssthresh on close > 406 embryonic connections dropped > 1475400 segments updated rtt (of 1463308 attempts) > 15465 retransmit timeouts > 123 connections dropped by rexmit timeout > 0 persist timeouts > 0 connections dropped by persist timeout > 15 keepalive timeouts > 14 keepalive probes sent > 1 connection dropped by keepalive > 2101 correct ACK header predictions > 510881 correct data packet header predictions > 19868 syncache entries added > 1262 retransmitted > 984 dupsyn > 173 dropped > 19459 completed > 0 bucket overflow > 0 cache overflow > 107 reset > 234 stale > 0 aborted > 0 badack > 68 unreach > 0 zone failures > 0 cookies sent > 0 cookies received > udp: > 1819407 datagrams received > 0 with incomplete header > 0 with bad data length field > 26 with bad checksum > 323 with no checksum > 7068 dropped due to no socket > 150 broadcast/multicast datagrams dropped due to no socket > 0 dropped due to full socket buffers > 0 not for hashed pcb > 1812163 delivered > 2250035 datagrams output > > I'm hoping to get a clearer picture of what's going on before I bring this > up on freebsd-network. > Also check netstat -s for your ICMP usage. Might be some revealing stats there. Hope this helps, Jim B. From jvanasco Tue Aug 2 13:55:09 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:55:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] portupdate forgetting apache options In-Reply-To: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> References: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> Message-ID: FreeBSD-Release 5.4 I've got the following in /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf MAKE_ARGS 'www/apache20' => 'WITH_BERKELEYDB=db4 WITH_LDAP=yes WITHOUT_MODULES="a uth_anon auth_dbm auth_digest ext_filter charset_lite cache file_cache disk_cach e mem_cache asis autoindex cern_meta expires headers imap include info logio mim e_magic negotiation speling userdir proxy_ftp cgid" WITH_MODULES="actions access auth dav dav_fs ldap auth_ldap alias cgi deflate dir env mime setenvif status u nique_id vhost_alias proxy proxy_connect proxy_http ssl suexec rewrite log_confi g"', a few other packages are in there, and pulling the make args fine apache never does though. i've tried a bunch of different formats including arrays - everything ignored can anyone share their make_args entry in pkgtools for this, or suggest a file that might be overriding this? From jdev Tue Aug 2 14:58:34 2005 From: jdev (Jed Davis) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:58:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: network strangeness (resource starvation?) References: Message-ID: Charles Sprickman writes: > One of the ongoing symptoms is that ssh sessions to the box will start > *dropping* characters when udp traffic is really high. Even after we > solved the problem of outgrowing the state table, the problem still > remains. That's... seriously weird. Even if the TCP is somehow not working correctly, SSH has its own cryptographic integrity/authenticity check on top of that, so characters _really_ shouldn't be getting silently dropped there. Maybe the loss is in the tty layer? -- (let ((C call-with-current-continuation)) (apply (lambda (x y) (x y)) (map ((lambda (r) ((C C) (lambda (s) (r (lambda l (apply (s s) l)))))) (lambda (f) (lambda (l) (if (null? l) C (lambda (k) (display (car l)) ((f (cdr l)) (C k))))))) '((#\J #\d #\D #\v #\s) (#\e #\space #\a #\i #\newline))))) From george Tue Aug 2 16:06:45 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:06:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Novell Goes for SCO's Throat Message-ID: <20050802200645.GB1580@ixeon.duo> I don't usually post this sort of stuff but this really got my attention... Novel says SCO doesn't have the right to sell Unix licenses, and SCO has denied Novel their right to audit Unix business deals with Microsoft and Sun. Humph. The article says... In short, SCO owes Novell money for new Unix licenses and Novell has some veto power over SCO's Unix deals. Novell contends that SCO, as "the alleged successor to Santa Cruz" has violated several of these rights. Specifically, Novell claims that while SCO has acknowledged that Novell has a right to audit its Unix license program, the Lindon, Utah, company has refused to let Novell audit its Unix business. In particular, SCO has refused to let Novell audit its 2003 deals with Microsoft Corp. and Sun Microsystems Inc. It was these multimillion-dollar contracts that gave SCO one of its few profitable quarters in recent memory. This revenue also enabled SCO to proceed with its lawsuits against IBM and other Linux-using companies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4. News: Novell Goes for SCO's Throat Novell doesn't simply deny that SCO has any rights to Unix's copyrights; the company is claiming that SCO has no rights to sell Unix licenses and that SCO must turn over all its Unix royalties to it. http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-2350-8-85-56572-267021-0-0-0-1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From mspitzer Tue Aug 2 16:20:27 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:20:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] portupdate forgetting apache options In-Reply-To: References: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305080213209f573d6@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/05, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > FreeBSD-Release 5.4 > > I've got the following in /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf MAKE_ARGS > > 'www/apache20' => 'WITH_BERKELEYDB=db4 WITH_LDAP=yes > WITHOUT_MODULES="a > uth_anon auth_dbm auth_digest ext_filter charset_lite cache file_cache > disk_cach > e mem_cache asis autoindex cern_meta expires headers imap include info > logio mim > e_magic negotiation speling userdir proxy_ftp cgid" > WITH_MODULES="actions access > auth dav dav_fs ldap auth_ldap alias cgi deflate dir env mime setenvif > status u > nique_id vhost_alias proxy proxy_connect proxy_http ssl suexec rewrite > log_confi > g"', this is purley from memory of long ago but I think you need to wrap the RHS in () or [] to turn it into a hash entry that points to an array/list of thing. I am not a ruby programmer so take it for what it is worth and the example files that are part of the port are well commented or they were anyway. good luck marc > > a few other packages are in there, and pulling the make args fine > > apache never does though. i've tried a bunch of different formats > including arrays - everything ignored > > can anyone share their make_args entry in pkgtools for this, or suggest > a file that might be overriding this? > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From nomadlogic Tue Aug 2 16:34:01 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:34:01 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] portupdate forgetting apache options In-Reply-To: References: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> Message-ID: <57d7100005080213341d45e265@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/05, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > > FreeBSD-Release 5.4 > > I've got the following in /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf MAKE_ARGS > > 'www/apache20' => 'WITH_BERKELEYDB=db4 WITH_LDAP=yes > WITHOUT_MODULES="a > uth_anon auth_dbm auth_digest ext_filter charset_lite cache file_cache > disk_cach > e mem_cache asis autoindex cern_meta expires headers imap include info > logio mim > e_magic negotiation speling userdir proxy_ftp cgid" > WITH_MODULES="actions access > auth dav dav_fs ldap auth_ldap alias cgi deflate dir env mime setenvif > status u > nique_id vhost_alias proxy proxy_connect proxy_http ssl suexec rewrite > log_confi > g"', > > a few other packages are in there, and pulling the make args fine > > apache never does though. i've tried a bunch of different formats > including arrays - everything ignored > > can anyone share their make_args entry in pkgtools for this, or suggest > a file that might be overriding this? I know this does not answere your question directly, but if you put these options in www/apache20/Makefile will that address this issue. The edits may not last between cvsup's and make clean's though.... -p _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050802/a67f89b0/attachment.html From nomadlogic Tue Aug 2 18:13:19 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:13:19 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports getting removed from Free Message-ID: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> http://www.bsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33212 seems like a good thing to me...still wanted to check out the list to make sure there are no suprises. this one caught my eye: sysutils/cfengine 2005-09-14 gordon at FreeBSD.org also, looks like there are a fair amount of zope ports too (cough ike cough) so does anyone know the skinny on cfengine getting yanked. when i get home tonight i'm going to build it on my dev box to see what's broken. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050802/5b479f4e/attachment.html From nomadlogic Tue Aug 2 18:21:59 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:21:59 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: ports getting removed from Free In-Reply-To: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57d710000508021521678ac594@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/05, pete wright wrote: > > http://www.bsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33212 > > seems like a good thing to me...still wanted to check out the list to make > sure there are no suprises. this one caught my eye: > sysutils/cfengine 2005-09-14 gordon at FreeBSD.org > > also, looks like there are a fair amount of zope ports too (cough ike > cough) > > so does anyone know the skinny on cfengine getting yanked. when i get home > tonight i'm going to build it on my dev box to see what's broken. > > -pete /me hangs head low...from freshports.org : http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/cfengine/ it's deprecated in favour of cfengine-2.x. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050802/34fe3898/attachment.html From ike Tue Aug 2 19:13:06 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:13:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports getting removed from Free In-Reply-To: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81C0B00F-CAE9-4CC8-8660-B40FFE22DDF5@lesmuug.org> Yo Pete, All, On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:13 PM, pete wright wrote: > also, looks like there are a fair amount of zope ports too (cough > ike cough) Good riddance to those IMO- and I'll add that some of those ports are pretty junky. The core Zope port is done just fine, but all of those are just add- on products, all one has to do to install them is put them in one's $instance_home/Products directory, and the way the core Zope product is setup, one still has to define *where* their $instance_home directory should exist. So basically, good riddance. Untarring a product in the right place is much saner than ports in this context. Rocket- .ike From ike Tue Aug 2 19:28:38 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:28:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: [macosx-unix] Trusted Computing Poll In-Reply-To: <42EEEBA5.6020001@sddi.net> References: <183EF00C-DA75-453D-96B1-3A9AA58144C9@lesmuug.org> <42EEEBA5.6020001@sddi.net> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for all who responded to this thread- I appreciate the thoughtful and open responses from everyone. On Aug 1, 2005, at 11:42 PM, George R. wrote: > > On Aug 1, 2005, at 6:16 PM, Jared ''Danger'' Earle wrote: > >> I hate DRM, but I recognise its validity. You're all in NYC, >> right? Do you hate being spot-searched on the subway because it's >> a violation of your privacy laws, yet you understand the >> necessity ... > > Sorry Mr. Danger, but no love of the subway searches or any privacy > intrusions here. Jared, with my sincerest condolences to you in Brittan, I have to agree fully with George here on NYC. I find the subway searches to nothing but violating, and honestly, being one of many people who are fascinated/knowledgeable with regard to NYC infrastructure, the searches do absolutely nothing to actually mitigate risks of terrorism, (except perhaps to placate the fears of people who don't ride the subway in the first place). All of it carries the side-effect of stripping more civil liberties away from individuals living their lives. In an example of a fairly base abuse of this new state power being exercised in America, my girlfriend was recently in Miami working, and when passing through airport security for check-in, the security guards took the opportunity to do a full pat-down accompanied by inappropriate verbal sexual innuendo, and she was prompted to ask to be searched by a female security guard. With this, they just stopped the search and let her move along. Because of the Patriot Act, I feel less safe as an American in America; (I say that after schlepping water and ice by foot into ground zero for 3 days after 9/11). I am fully aware of what is at stake here, and terrorism isn't what makes me feel unsafe any more than being hit by a car. This is simply one recent example of why. With all of that stated, in Apple's case, as someone who's filled out more than my fair share of Apple dev. bugreports, I'm saddened that they are even wasting time in this territory- when they have gaping holes in the Apple side of the core OS- I worry that Apple, (or whomever is in charge now that Steve Jobs is off running the iTunes- music-store etc...), is starting to loose sight of the fundamental principles behind why people love Apple- high caliber products. I see this move being detrimental to their business, insomuch as I've seen *many* businesses focus far too much on *protecting* their business, and not *running* their business. I see DRM as a stepping stone to incomprehensible, yet plausible, personal violation by larger parties. -- Secondarily, based on positive personal experiences in life and business, I feel that attempting to exert absolute control over anyone is a fleeting strategy- if one really wants to do something powerful, you have to let go and give it away. Absolute control comes from letting go. Strategies and moves towards DRM in general, to me, just reflect the climate of America right now. I feel we are becoming a nation of reactionary fearful cowards, or perhaps just lazy... It's a lazy move, IMHO, to cut people off and make them use your products, (in a specific way). It's much more work, to focus on providing products which shine above and beyond expectations for the function of the product. The latter has long-term positive repercussions, and provides long- term benefit for all parties. We are not doing a lot of the latter in America right now, and this short-term behavior grieves me. -- Sorry to rant, but it's just how I feel here. I've had a very positive relationship of trust and support from Apple for many years, on many levels, in my various computing pursuits. I guess all good things must come to an end. Now America, that's another story- one where I'm still figuring out how to be proactive and positive based on how I feel about things... A bit more than a .02? rant for now, I really want to do something positive about this... Best, .ike From ike Tue Aug 2 19:31:59 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:31:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: [macosx-unix] Trusted Computing Poll In-Reply-To: References: <183EF00C-DA75-453D-96B1-3A9AA58144C9@lesmuug.org> <42EEEBA5.6020001@sddi.net> Message-ID: <110CC411-EEB0-48DF-B30C-425622F276CB@lesmuug.org> Uh-oh, On Aug 2, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks for all who responded to this thread- I appreciate the > thoughtful and open responses from everyone. > That was an accident- mixed up the threads. I'd started a parallel thread on this over on the macosx-unix list, (lesmuug sponsored), starting here: http://lesmuug.org/pipermail/macosx-unix/2005-August/000311.html Rocket- .ike From ike Tue Aug 2 19:35:31 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:35:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508011516406bae3b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> <20050801180428.Q83786@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c30508011516406bae3b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 1, 2005, at 6:16 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > Also keep in mind that there may be > laws that prohibit the software having special rights, I dread the day when software has more special rights than I do :) Rocket- .ike From nomadlogic Tue Aug 2 20:20:50 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:20:50 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports getting removed from Free In-Reply-To: <81C0B00F-CAE9-4CC8-8660-B40FFE22DDF5@lesmuug.org> References: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> <81C0B00F-CAE9-4CC8-8660-B40FFE22DDF5@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <57d7100005080217203289e204@mail.gmail.com> On 8/2/05, Isaac Levy wrote: > > Yo Pete, All, > > On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:13 PM, pete wright wrote: > > > also, looks like there are a fair amount of zope ports too (cough > > ike cough) > > Good riddance to those IMO- and I'll add that some of those ports are > pretty junky. > > The core Zope port is done just fine, but all of those are just add- > on products, all one has to do to install them is put them in one's > $instance_home/Products directory, and the way the core Zope product > is setup, one still has to define *where* their $instance_home > directory should exist. > > So basically, good riddance. Untarring a product in the right place > is much saner than ports in this context. cool...guess i should remember to check freshports before i jump the gun again ;p -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050802/ceab81a8/attachment.html From ike Tue Aug 2 21:10:44 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:10:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports getting removed from Free In-Reply-To: <57d7100005080217203289e204@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d71000050802151368b7f983@mail.gmail.com> <81C0B00F-CAE9-4CC8-8660-B40FFE22DDF5@lesmuug.org> <57d7100005080217203289e204@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2F294547-6C4A-42AB-AD86-6B6896B6F312@lesmuug.org> On Aug 2, 2005, at 8:20 PM, pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/2/05, Isaac Levy wrote: Yo Pete, All, > > On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:13 PM, pete wright wrote: > > > also, looks like there are a fair amount of zope ports too (cough > > ike cough) > > Good riddance to those IMO- and I'll add that some of those ports are > pretty junky. > > The core Zope port is done just fine, but all of those are just add- > on products, all one has to do to install them is put them in one's > $instance_home/Products directory, and the way the core Zope product > is setup, one still has to define *where* their $instance_home > directory should exist. > > So basically, good riddance. Untarring a product in the right place > is much saner than ports in this context. > > > cool...guess i should remember to check freshports before i jump > the gun again ;p > > -p Nah- these ports should have never been there in the first place, there's lots of crufty ideas in Zope-land... Rocket- .ike From dlavigne6 Tue Aug 2 21:23:45 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] portupdate forgetting apache options In-Reply-To: References: <20050801192652.GA15241@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050802212140.W24535@dru.domain.org> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > FreeBSD-Release 5.4 > > I've got the following in /usr/local/etc/pkgtools.conf MAKE_ARGS > > 'www/apache20' => 'WITH_BERKELEYDB=db4 WITH_LDAP=yes > WITHOUT_MODULES="a > uth_anon auth_dbm auth_digest ext_filter charset_lite cache file_cache > disk_cach > e mem_cache asis autoindex cern_meta expires headers imap include info logio > mim > e_magic negotiation speling userdir proxy_ftp cgid" WITH_MODULES="actions > access > auth dav dav_fs ldap auth_ldap alias cgi deflate dir env mime setenvif > status u > nique_id vhost_alias proxy proxy_connect proxy_http ssl suexec rewrite > log_confi > g"', > > a few other packages are in there, and pulling the make args fine What happens when you do a portversion -l "<" It should complain if there is a typo in pkgtools.conf and give you an idea of which line. Also, compare yours to p. 16 of http://www.nycbug.org/uploads/20050623120603_dru_lavigne_servers_tutorial.pdf That one does work. HTH, Dru From spork Tue Aug 2 22:08:43 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 22:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Jed Davis wrote: > Charles Sprickman writes: > >> One of the ongoing symptoms is that ssh sessions to the box will start >> *dropping* characters when udp traffic is really high. Even after we >> solved the problem of outgrowing the state table, the problem still >> remains. > > That's... seriously weird. Even if the TCP is somehow not working > correctly, SSH has its own cryptographic integrity/authenticity check > on top of that, so characters _really_ shouldn't be getting silently > dropped there. Maybe the loss is in the tty layer? I'm trying to dig up more now. The thing booted again this afternoon. It's not even doing very much beyond Nagios at this point. tty layer, hmmm... I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around what's different with this one box. I tried to get a crashdump, but even though I have 2GB RAM and 2GB swap, dumpon says "dumpon: sysctl: kern.dumpdev: No space left on device". Thanks, Charles > > -- > (let ((C call-with-current-continuation)) (apply (lambda (x y) (x y)) (map > ((lambda (r) ((C C) (lambda (s) (r (lambda l (apply (s s) l)))))) (lambda > (f) (lambda (l) (if (null? l) C (lambda (k) (display (car l)) ((f (cdr l)) > (C k))))))) '((#\J #\d #\D #\v #\s) (#\e #\space #\a #\i #\newline))))) > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From ike Wed Aug 3 08:03:23 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 08:03:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) Message-ID: Hey All, What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) -- I'm asking in light of yesterday's post regarding Apple and trusted computing fun, http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2005-August/006242.html this BSD/UNIX server jockey is now looking to dive seriously into X11 desktop use. I'm coming from the perspective of a LONG time mac user, who tends to live at shells on remote servers, and listen to a lot of music... I like using multiple desktops, and usually switch between LOTS of windows while working. I'm also an avid key-command user, and learn new GUI app key commands fast- but I expect consistency for any of it to make sense to me. What does everyone use? http://download.theforce.net/humor/soloswitch.mov Rocket- .ike From okan Wed Aug 3 09:20:15 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:20:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050803132015.GB5894@yinaska.pair.com> On Wed 2005.08.03 at 08:03 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey All, > > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > > -- > I'm asking in light of yesterday's post regarding Apple and trusted > computing fun, > > http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2005-August/006242.html > > this BSD/UNIX server jockey is now looking to dive seriously into X11 > desktop use. I'm coming from the perspective of a LONG time mac > user, who tends to live at shells on remote servers, and listen to a > lot of music... I like using multiple desktops, and usually switch > between LOTS of windows while working. I'm also an avid key-command > user, and learn new GUI app key commands fast- but I expect > consistency for any of it to make sense to me. > > What does everyone use? please everyone, let's not start a war ;) on that note...i'll kinda guess what the majority of responses will be, so that's why i'd like to toss in my $.02 i choose OpenBSD - it works out of the box - no (re)compiling this, that, or the other - it does everything i need it to - no fuss or mess and i spend my time doing work instead of messing with the *tool* i have choosen. (oh, and i use fvwm) (if any of you have actually seen my environment, you'll know that i like things simple - KISS). cheers. From josh Wed Aug 3 09:27:59 2005 From: josh (Josh Rivel) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:27:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> Isaac Levy wrote... > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) [snip] Fluxbox is good, fast, and lightweight, and supports key bindings for just about everything. Another keyboard-friendly WM Is Sawfish, which also has very good support for keyboard binding, but is dependant on other programs to be installed, gtk, rep-gtk, etc. -- josh From mickey Wed Aug 3 09:54:05 2005 From: mickey (Michael Shalayeff) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] humppa radio Message-ID: <200508031354.j73Ds5vT010543@lucifier.net> re if somedy have not heard yet we did a humppa show on the etheradio w/ a bunch of interviews w/ a bunch of obsd developers. i mirrored it on our supermirror: ftp://ftp.nyc.openbsd.org/pub/news/wth-radio-humppa.mp3 cu -- paranoic mickey (my employers have changed but, the name has remained) From steve.rieger Wed Aug 3 10:18:04 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:18:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] colo Message-ID: looking for a colo please respond off list -- Steve Rieger AIM chozrim ICQ 53956607 Cell 646 335 8915 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. 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Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From scottro Wed Aug 3 11:11:43 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:11:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> Message-ID: <20050803151143.GC29473@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 09:27:59AM -0400, Josh Rivel wrote: > Isaac Levy wrote... > > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > > [snip] > > Fluxbox is good, fast, and lightweight, and supports key bindings for > just about everything. Another keyboard-friendly WM Is Sawfish, > which also has very good support for keyboard binding, but is > dependant on other programs to be installed, gtk, rep-gtk, etc. If we're talking fluxbox, I'm going to push my fluxbox page. :) http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/fluxbox.html Has various tips, especially about keyboard bindings. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I can't put it off any longer. I have to meet my terrible fate. Giles: What? Buffy: Biology. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC8N6v+lTVdes0Z9YRAlzjAJ4reVCrCKlUDLeRTCFUVPoVZi96CwCff5E7 oqQtYDK4K6/0Ek+M2a4/erI= =sb23 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Wed Aug 3 11:15:43 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 11:15:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050803151143.GC29473@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803151143.GC29473@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <42F0DF9F.4080402@sddi.net> Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 09:27:59AM -0400, Josh Rivel wrote: > >>Isaac Levy wrote... >> >>>What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to >>>a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? >>>I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different >>>contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) >> >>[snip] >> >>Fluxbox is good, fast, and lightweight, and supports key bindings for >>just about everything. Another keyboard-friendly WM Is Sawfish, >>which also has very good support for keyboard binding, but is >>dependant on other programs to be installed, gtk, rep-gtk, etc. > > > If we're talking fluxbox, I'm going to push my fluxbox page. :) > > http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/fluxbox.html > > Has various tips, especially about keyboard bindings. > > - -- > > Scott That was a shameless plug ;-) Those how-to's, etc, should be linked from our library, even if we don't host. But then again, why would anyone use Fluxbox when you have XFCE? Nice minimal gui, easy to configure, nice and fun overall. I really wonder why all you KDE junkies aren't spamming this list *now*. You know who you are. . . g From marco Wed Aug 3 11:47:35 2005 From: marco (Marco Scoffier) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:47:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050803154735.GI23902@ns.metm.org> On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:03:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: >Hey All, > >What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to >a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? >I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different >contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > >-- >I'm asking in light of yesterday's post regarding Apple and trusted >computing fun, > >http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2005-August/006242.html > >this BSD/UNIX server jockey is now looking to dive seriously into X11 >desktop use. I'm coming from the perspective of a LONG time mac >user, who tends to live at shells on remote servers, and listen to a >lot of music... I like using multiple desktops, and usually switch >between LOTS of windows while working. I'm also an avid key-command >user, and learn new GUI app key commands fast- but I expect >consistency for any of it to make sense to me. > >What does everyone use? > A long time windowmaker user (very easy to set up key bindings for what ever, lots of panel widgets) I recently switched to xfce4 which while remaining light and fast, has more eye candy. I have an "agua" skin which makes my mac using wife more comfortable on the desktop... For music playing there is xmms and the new beep media player (bmp) which uses gtk2 but has fewer plugins (missing a pluging for .flac for example, but development on xmms has halted so...), also install imms (port seems to be broken right now, but easy to compile and can be used with both). IMMS keeps track of your listening patterns (skipping a song gives it negative weight, skipping right after a transition gives a negative weight to the transition) IMMS also keeps track of the beats per minute of tracks, so that while it randomizes your listening after using it for a while you feel that it just gets in a groove. :) -- Marco From scottro Wed Aug 3 11:49:46 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:49:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F0DF9F.4080402@sddi.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803151143.GC29473@uws1.starlofashions.com> <42F0DF9F.4080402@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050803154946.GA33734@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 11:15:43AM -0400, George R. wrote: > Scott Robbins wrote: > >If we're talking fluxbox, I'm going to push my fluxbox page. :) > >http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/fluxbox.html > >Has various tips, especially about keyboard bindings. > >- -- Scott > > That was a shameless plug ;-) Yes, I forgot to add tags, but I did get the smilely. > > Those how-to's, etc, should be linked from our library, even if we don't host. > Yes, Francisco and I have NOT forgotten, but both of us have been buried. > But then again, why would anyone use Fluxbox when you have XFCE? > > Nice minimal gui, easy to configure, nice and fun overall. Icons. Me no like icons. :) Actually, that line below did make me laugh. > > I really wonder why all you KDE junkies aren't spamming this list *now*. You > know who you are. . . - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: Isn't that what they called The Slayer? Willow: Buffy, ohh scary. Xander: Someone has to talk to her people. That name is striking fear in nobody's hearts. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC8Oea+lTVdes0Z9YRArVeAJ0dG/c4rExMlaXH607f/4unMkVWBgCdEg8c CKLaL7W+ykWi4C9/v+tLzm0= =hzWA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jba Wed Aug 3 12:44:19 2005 From: jba (jeffrey.arnold) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Josh Rivel wrote: :: Isaac Levy wrote... :: > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to :: > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? :: > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different :: > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) :: :: [snip] :: :: Fluxbox is good, fast, and lightweight, and supports key bindings for :: just about everything. Another keyboard-friendly WM Is Sawfish, :: which also has very good support for keyboard binding, but is :: dependant on other programs to be installed, gtk, rep-gtk, etc. :: A big 'second' for fluxbox or blackbox with bbkeys. It's all of the above, very stable, and easy to set up. Runs well right out of ports on freebsd. -jba __ [jba at analogue.net] :: analogue.networks.nyc :: http://analogue.net From droid Wed Aug 3 12:55:43 2005 From: droid (William G. Bendick) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:55:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> Message-ID: <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> If youre looking for a real minimal WM checkout evilwm. http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/ I've been using it for years, its for real keyboard jockies. Has just about nothing graphical, uses about a seccond of cpu time a month, has all the important features. Will On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 12:44:19PM -0400, jeffrey.arnold wrote: > On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, Josh Rivel wrote: > > :: Isaac Levy wrote... > :: > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > :: > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > :: > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > :: > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > :: > :: [snip] > :: > :: Fluxbox is good, fast, and lightweight, and supports key bindings for > :: just about everything. Another keyboard-friendly WM Is Sawfish, > :: which also has very good support for keyboard binding, but is > :: dependant on other programs to be installed, gtk, rep-gtk, etc. > :: > > A big 'second' for fluxbox or blackbox with bbkeys. It's all of the > above, very stable, and easy to set up. Runs well right out of ports on > freebsd. > > -jba > __ > [jba at analogue.net] :: analogue.networks.nyc :: http://analogue.net > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- -droid http://www.zoo-crew.org/ @@@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@ @@ @@ @@@ !@@ !@@ @@@ @@@ !@@ @@! @@@ !@@ @@ @@ @@ @!@ !@! !@! @@@ @@@ !@! !@! @!@ !@! @! @! @! @!@ !@! @!@ !@! @!@ !@! @!@!@!@! @!@!@!@! !@ !@ !@ !@! !!! !!! !@! !@! !!! !!!@!!!! :!!!@!!: !! !@ !! :!! :!! :!! :!! :!! :!! !!!!!: :!! :! !! :! :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: !!: :!: :! :! :! ::: ::: :: ::: : :: : ::: ::: :: :: ::: ::: :::: ::: :: : :: : :: : :: : : : :: : : : From nycbug Wed Aug 3 14:16:45 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 14:16:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20050803181645.GB30900@syntax.cyth.net> On Mon, Aug 01, 2005 at 04:54:48PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels > about 'Trusted Computing' in general. > > I know what the FSF thinks of Trusted Computing, what do the BSD > people on this list think about it? URLS and thoughts from any > perspective would be most welcome here... I don't know much about it, but here's an opposing view: http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/tcpa_rebuttal.pdf -Ray- From nycbug Wed Aug 3 15:03:08 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 15:03:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:03:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey All, > > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) I use ratpoison for my window manager and almost never use the mouse. However, there's no prettiness factor to it at all, if that's what you're looking for. -Ray- From nikolai.fetissov Thu Aug 4 00:56:01 2005 From: nikolai.fetissov (Nikolai N. Fetissov) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 00:56:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] August meeting audio Message-ID: <42F19FE1.6030806@peachisland.com> Audio of Hildo's presentation is available at http://www.peachisland.com/nycbug/ I missed the very beginning and the recording is in two parts - the talk itself and the Q&A after. -- nikolai From george Thu Aug 4 01:21:04 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:21:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] August meeting audio In-Reply-To: <42F19FE1.6030806@peachisland.com> References: <42F19FE1.6030806@peachisland.com> Message-ID: <42F1A5C0.8020705@sddi.net> Nikolai N. Fetissov wrote: > Audio of Hildo's presentation is available at > http://www.peachisland.com/nycbug/ > I missed the very beginning and the recording is in two > parts - the talk itself and the Q&A after. Thanks a million Nikolai. . . Thoughts on the meeting? Hildo raised some legitimate questions about a migration to BSD at his firm. Nothing was unreasonable, and they were all issues that need to be addressed by BSD developers. Certainly we could continue this discussion here. . . and I think *I* talked enough in the meeting. . . George From jpb Thu Aug 4 09:03:01 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:03:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20050804130301.GA27599@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Isaac Levy [2005-08-01 16:54]: > Hey All, > > I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels > about 'Trusted Computing' in general. > > I know what the FSF thinks of Trusted Computing, what do the BSD > people on this list think about it? URLS and thoughts from any > perspective would be most welcome here... > > Rocket- > .ike > > Just saw an article about this on OS New (www.osnews.com) Article is here: http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=380&mode=&order=0&thold=0 Jim B. From hzs202 Thu Aug 4 10:05:49 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 10:05:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Trusted Computing Opinions? In-Reply-To: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> References: <9BEE82CA-7CFB-4895-88C6-FCE55EABE504@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On 8/1/05, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey All, > > I just wanted to take an informal poll to see how everyone feels > about 'Trusted Computing' in general. Overall, I do not trust much of what these large publicly traded software companies do. And IMHO TC just makes more reason for people like me (university students and the like) who have a large body of users at our fingertips to advocate and support the use of Open Source Applications. > I know what the FSF thinks of Trusted Computing, what do the BSD > people on this list think about it? I can only speak for myself however, I am probably not alone in the hopes that the mix of proprietary and open-source software will create a co-dependency for organizations that will prove of a greater value ($$) to the org than what TC proposes. I firmly believe that TC could compromise the open-source movement and end up a giant leap backward for the software development industry. However, please consider that I am a student... so what do I know, eh! Best, -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Where danger is, grows the saving power also" (qtd. in Heidegger 28). From dlavigne6 Thu Aug 4 11:50:42 2005 From: dlavigne6 (dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:50:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] August meeting audio Message-ID: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> > > From: "George R." > Date: 2005/08/04 Thu AM 01:21:04 EST > To: "Nikolai N. Fetissov" > CC: NYC BUG List , > Hildo Biersma > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] August meeting audio > > Nikolai N. Fetissov wrote: > > Audio of Hildo's presentation is available at > > http://www.peachisland.com/nycbug/ > > I missed the very beginning and the recording is in two > > parts - the talk itself and the Q&A after. > > Thanks a million Nikolai. . . > > Thoughts on the meeting? > > Hildo raised some legitimate questions about a migration to BSD at his > firm. Nothing was unreasonable, and they were all issues that need to > be addressed by BSD developers. > > Certainly we could continue this discussion here. . . and I think *I* > talked enough in the meeting. . . > > George For those who missed the meeting, which issues did he bring up? Dru From mikel.king Thu Aug 4 11:57:02 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:57:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] August meeting audio In-Reply-To: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> References: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Message-ID: <6A0E429B-597C-4FA4-AA9E-568961693D61@ocsny.com> On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:50 AM, wrote: > > >> >> From: "George R." >> Date: 2005/08/04 Thu AM 01:21:04 EST > {SNP} > For those who missed the meeting, which issues did he bring up? > > Dru > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > Is there any chance that some one might have transcribed of the meeting? Cheers, Mikel King CIO, Director of Network Operations Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com t:212.727.2100x132 +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050804/a9dc55a8/attachment.html From driodeiros Thu Aug 4 14:00:36 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 11:00:36 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050804180036.GA17424@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:03:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > this BSD/UNIX server jockey is now looking to dive seriously into X11 > desktop use. I'm coming from the perspective of a LONG time mac I think you don't need to switch: http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/08/04/1338205.shtml?tid=118&tid=158&tid=3 Good news. From lists Fri Aug 5 09:02:53 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:02:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides Message-ID: <20050805090253.61f09080@genoverly.com> I took the liberty to forward this from misc at openbsd. Begin forwarded message: Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:35:39 -0700 From: Jason Dixon To: OpenBSD general usage list Subject: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides Here are the slides that I presented at this week's OSCON in Portland, OR. They are available in pdf and sxi (OOo Impress) formats. http://www.dixongroup.net/OSCON/ -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net -- From george Fri Aug 5 09:03:11 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:03:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Passwd Reqs. . . Message-ID: <42F3638F.8040506@sddi.net> Caught this off of Hubert Feyrer's blog at http://www.feyrer.de/NetBSD/blog.html#20050801_1423 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/276304/en-us/ And you thought they weren't taking security seriously . . . g From george Fri Aug 5 10:08:48 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 10:08:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] VOIP provider leads Message-ID: <42F372F0.4060100@sddi.net> I have been looking at switching VOIP service providers for a while now and wanted to get some feedback from this list. The provider I have two clients working with has been a nightmare, with number terminations changing weekly and various other problems. Sure, you could go with Vonage, and there are certainly advantages, such as the ability to use different soft phones regardless of codec compatibility, but there's too many problems I've heard about their service, and we don't want to be required to use their hardware. Are there any carriers in the NYC area that anyone would recommend? I have been trying to test out some phones from Digifonica for a while, but they seem to be on the slow track. I met one of their (Linux) engineers at BSDCan this past May. Would be very interested in hearing good and bad experiences. At this point, I'm about to dive back into my PBX past and have my own VOIP switch, but I really don't have the time. George From dlavigne6 Fri Aug 5 10:36:00 2005 From: dlavigne6 (dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 10:36:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides Message-ID: <20050805143600.KUOK1586.tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> > > From: michael > Date: 2005/08/05 Fri AM 09:02:53 EST > To: NYCBUG Talk > Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides > > I took the liberty to forward this from misc at openbsd. > > Begin forwarded message: > > Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:35:39 -0700 > From: Jason Dixon > To: OpenBSD general usage list > Subject: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides > > > Here are the slides that I presented at this week's OSCON in > Portland, OR. They are available in pdf and sxi (OOo Impress) formats. > > http://www.dixongroup.net/OSCON/ This was a very impressive demonstration. Afterwards, Jason setup his gear at the BSD booth for a live demo. He'd start an ssh session, a ping and a large file transfer. Unplug the master router, there'd be a slighter higher latency on one ping packet, the transfer continued and the ssh session stayed up and you could see the backup turn into the master. Plug the master back in, backup became backup again. No noticeable packet loss (apparantly it takes 3 packets to do the switchover). Dru From george Fri Aug 5 10:43:15 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 10:43:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides In-Reply-To: <20050805143600.KUOK1586.tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> References: <20050805143600.KUOK1586.tomts42-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Message-ID: <42F37B03.1070609@sddi.net> dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca wrote: >> From: michael Date: 2005/08/05 Fri AM >> 09:02:53 EST To: NYCBUG Talk Subject: >> [nycbug-talk] Fw: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides >> >> I took the liberty to forward this from misc at openbsd. >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 05:35:39 -0700 From: Jason Dixon >> To: OpenBSD general usage list >> Subject: OSCON - OpenBSD/CARP slides >> >> >> Here are the slides that I presented at this week's OSCON in >> Portland, OR. They are available in pdf and sxi (OOo Impress) >> formats. >> >> http://www.dixongroup.net/OSCON/ > > > > This was a very impressive demonstration. Afterwards, Jason setup his > gear at the BSD booth for a live demo. He'd start an ssh session, a > ping and a large file transfer. Unplug the master router, there'd be > a slighter higher latency on one ping packet, the transfer continued > and the ssh session stayed up and you could see the backup turn into > the master. Plug the master back in, backup became backup again. No > noticeable packet loss (apparantly it takes 3 packets to do the > switchover). > > Dru Hey, Lavigne, about time we got some updates. . . ;-) How come they're not regular? I recommend Rob Bernier's piece on 'how to schmooze at OSCon': http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/07/28/schmoozing.html Certainly applicable to any other conference. George From george Fri Aug 5 10:59:11 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 10:59:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] VOIP provider leads In-Reply-To: <42F372F0.4060100@sddi.net> References: <42F372F0.4060100@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050805145911.GA12872@sta.duo> On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 10:08:48AM -0400, G Rosamond wrote: >Sure, you could go with Vonage, and there are certainly advantages, such >as the ability to use different soft phones regardless of codec >compatibility, but there's too many problems I've heard about their >service, and we don't want to be required to use their hardware. > When I spoke with Anthony at the after meeting, we discussed how you could use your own asterisk server and hardware and Vonage service for telco gateway... I don't know about problems with them (or not, really), what did you hear? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From tux Fri Aug 5 11:08:44 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 11:08:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] VOIP provider leads In-Reply-To: <42F372F0.4060100@sddi.net> References: <42F372F0.4060100@sddi.net> Message-ID: <42F380FC.8080200@penguinnetwerx.net> George R. wrote: > Sure, you could go with Vonage, and there are certainly advantages, such > as the ability to use different soft phones regardless of codec > compatibility, but there's too many problems I've heard about their > service, and we don't want to be required to use their hardware. Which problems would that be? I've been using them for 9 months now, and aside from the occasional network hiccup with my ISP, there hasn't been anything worth noting for some time now (that I'm aware of, anyway.) As far as using their hardware, the LinkSys box I got from CompUSA integrates with my network just fine, and I even got a $50 rebate on it (so I paid $9 for the box) after 30 days. At the other office I was at, we had the Vonage line going through a TalkSwitch PBX and it worked great. I guess what I'm getting at is, what hardware are they forcing you to use? You can set it up however you like. -Kev From nomadlogic Fri Aug 5 14:33:17 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:33:17 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> Message-ID: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> On 8/3/05, Ray Lai wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:03:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > > I use ratpoison for my window manager and almost never use the > mouse. However, there's no prettiness factor to it at all, if > that's what you're looking for. you know i've been thinking about this thread for a couple days. i really don't have one WM i love, or use exclusivly (KDE/Gnome/fvwm are all in my constant rotation as is TWM). For me it's all about which terminal emulator that you use. i mean honestly %90 of my work is done in a shell, so my terminal emulater has to be just so. i've pretty much settled on Konsole (kde's terminal emulator). It's quick, pretty customizable, tab's work properlly and is just quicker and much less buggy than multi-gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal/other-terms-i've tried (aterm, rxvt etc.). granted i'm also a huge fan of xterm...but as far as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is konsole. just my 2 10 -pete -Ray- > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050805/7790ece9/attachment.html From tux Fri Aug 5 15:03:39 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 15:03:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/3/05, *Ray Lai* > wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 03, 2005 at 08:03:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > What kinds of X11 desktops does everyone use, and would reccommend to > > a possible 'reverse switcher', from a Mac desktop to a BSD machine? > > I know this discussion has come up here before, but in different > > contexts, (newbie users, people switching from windows, etc...) > > I use ratpoison for my window manager and almost never use the > mouse. However, there's no prettiness factor to it at all, if > that's what you're looking for. > > > > you know i've been thinking about this thread for a couple days. i > really don't have one WM i love, or use exclusivly (KDE/Gnome/fvwm are > all in my constant rotation as is TWM). For me it's all about which > terminal emulator that you use. i mean honestly %90 of my work is done > in a shell, so my terminal emulater has to be just so. i've pretty much > settled on Konsole (kde's terminal emulator). It's quick, pretty > customizable, tab's work properlly and is just quicker and much less > buggy than multi-gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal/other-terms-i've tried > (aterm, rxvt etc.). granted i'm also a huge fan of xterm...but as far > as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is > konsole. On that note, I'd like to speak up for Eterm. I've been using since the first day I discovered Enlightenment, which was the first day I installed Linux (before discovering BSD :) although I don't realy use Enlightenment anymore since discovering Fluxbox. Eterm works great with just about everything, and I like the backgrounds (I've replaced the defaults to use one of the 600+ Digital Blasphemy images I have randomly) and the ability to have a borderless window for viewing logs and such. ..there's now a nickel in the kitty :) -Kev From jschauma Fri Aug 5 15:41:13 2005 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:41:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050805194113.GA28090@netmeister.org> Kevin Reiter wrote: > pete wright wrote: > > but as far > > as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is > > konsole. But doesn't konsole pull in a bazillion huge kdependencies, such as Qt, kdelibs, keverything... ? Just to get a shell? What's the thing that makes konsole the killer terminal for you? Ie, what does it that xterm doesn't do? > On that note, I'd like to speak up for Eterm. I've been using since the > first day I discovered Enlightenment, which was the first day I installed > Linux (before discovering BSD :) although I don't realy use Enlightenment > anymore since discovering Fluxbox. Eterm works great with just about > everything, and I like the backgrounds (I've replaced the defaults to use > one of the 600+ Digital Blasphemy images I have randomly) and the ability > to have a borderless window for viewing logs and such. Mmmm, termulation via Eterm: http://www.digitaldefense.net/labs/papers/Termulation.txt :-) -Jan -- "When it's fall in New York, the air smells as if someone's been frying goats in it, and if you are keen to breathe the best plan is to open a window and stick your head in a building." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050805/b21f80a5/attachment.bin From jvanasco Fri Aug 5 15:44:41 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:44:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rescuing an OpenBSD 3.0 System In-Reply-To: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> References: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Message-ID: <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> We had a power flicker last week that seemed to have knocked out one of our UPS regulators and everything on it. I thought everything was moved over and happy on a new regulator until i walked into the office this morning -- our firewall was in a constant reboot cycle. It's an eracks.com box w/ a ecs p6stmt rev 1.0 motherboard, running openbsd 3.0 It does one of two things: boots about 20seconds into openbsd, then reboots boots about 5 seconds into bios, then reboots I tried booting off a cd. if it doesn't reboot automagically, it does when i issue a command on the shell. I swapped in the one bar of like memory i could find -- no luck I plugged/unplugged every card in the box -- no luck I'm guessing the bios got screwed by a power surge (although that doesn't explain why it started rebooting overnight - it was fine last night) I'm at a loss of what to do - i tried tossing the drives into the other boxes i have in the office, but then i get === Using Drive: 0 Partition: 3 reading boot... Bad magic === Which google says is something that I really don't want to see. barring a miracle, i need to get a new firewall the downed machine has all of the local networking stuff -- firewall, lan, proxy stuff -- which i need to get off -- we never backed it up, and there's too much to rewrite does anyone have a suggestion to make my week less of a nightmare? From scottro Fri Aug 5 15:47:35 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:47:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 03:03:39PM -0400, Kevin Reiter wrote: > pete wright wrote: > > > > > > (aterm, rxvt etc.). granted i'm also a huge fan of xterm...but as far > > as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is > > konsole. > > On that note, I'd like to speak up for Eterm. I've been using since the > first day I discovered Enlightenment, which was the first day I installed > Linux (before discovering BSD :) although I don't realy use Enlightenment > anymore since discovering Fluxbox. Eterm works great with just about > everything, and I like the backgrounds (I've replaced the defaults to use > one of the 600+ Digital Blasphemy images I have randomly) and the ability > to have a borderless window for viewing logs and such. I use fluxbox with aterm and editing $HOME/.fluxbox/apps allows me to have it borderless. At times, I will make it totally transparent with a fade for an unused window, so it looks as if it's just loose text floating around my screen. There will be a slightly darker area where the unfocused window sits. Although rxvt allows similar effects, I find aterm faster--and that is totally subjective, no I cannot prove it. :) So, I'm casting my vote for aterm. Kev, Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? Heh, maybe we should start having polls on the website. And, ~I~ like zsh as my shell. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike: A slayer with family and friends. That sure as hell wasn't in the brochure. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC88JX+lTVdes0Z9YRAhmjAKCNKuNfnEm+41vLrLK9dbcpqJx/qQCdEKNV fXfIIZWX7q/n5dYj4qXDDlI= =9wfJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bruno Fri Aug 5 16:01:07 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:01:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rescuing an OpenBSD 3.0 System In-Reply-To: <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> References: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> Message-ID: <20050805200107.GF9332@loftmail.com> On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 03:44:41PM -0400, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > We had a power flicker last week that seemed to have knocked out one > of our UPS regulators and everything on it. > > I thought everything was moved over and happy on a new regulator > until i walked into the office this morning -- our firewall was in a > constant reboot cycle. It could be overheating, or something got damaged (PS?). If you haven't yet, check: - PowerSupply - if possible, test with another one - is cpu fan spinning? cpu overheat could cause reboots like those From tux Fri Aug 5 16:08:15 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:08:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <42F3C72F.3000907@penguinnetwerx.net> Scott Robbins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 03:03:39PM -0400, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >>>pete wright wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>(aterm, rxvt etc.). granted i'm also a huge fan of xterm...but as far >>>>as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is >>>>konsole. >>> >>>On that note, I'd like to speak up for Eterm. I've been using since the >>>first day I discovered Enlightenment, which was the first day I installed >>>Linux (before discovering BSD :) although I don't realy use Enlightenment >>>anymore since discovering Fluxbox. Eterm works great with just about >>>everything, and I like the backgrounds (I've replaced the defaults to use >>>one of the 600+ Digital Blasphemy images I have randomly) and the ability >>>to have a borderless window for viewing logs and such. > > > > I use fluxbox with aterm and editing $HOME/.fluxbox/apps allows me to > have it borderless. At times, I will make it totally transparent with a > fade for an unused window, so it looks as if it's just loose text > floating around my screen. There will be a slightly darker area where > the unfocused window sits. > > > Although rxvt allows similar effects, I find aterm faster--and that is > totally subjective, no I cannot prove it. :) So, I'm casting my vote > for aterm. Kev, Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? Yes, my dsylexic friend, regardless of WM :) > > Heh, maybe we should start having polls on the website. > > And, ~I~ like zsh as my shell. I'm still hooked on bash from back in my Linux days. Hell, I even use bash on Solaris. I'd even use bash on an Atari if I could figure out how to do it :) From jpb Fri Aug 5 16:10:26 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:10:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rescuing an OpenBSD 3.0 System In-Reply-To: <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> References: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> Message-ID: <20050805201026.GA33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Jonathan Vanasco [2005-08-05 15:44]: > > We had a power flicker last week that seemed to have knocked out one > of our UPS regulators and everything on it. > > I thought everything was moved over and happy on a new regulator > until i walked into the office this morning -- our firewall was in a > constant reboot cycle. > > It's an eracks.com box w/ a ecs p6stmt rev 1.0 motherboard, running > openbsd 3.0 > > It does one of two things: > boots about 20seconds into openbsd, then reboots > boots about 5 seconds into bios, then reboots > > I tried booting off a cd. if it doesn't reboot automagically, it > does when i issue a command on the shell. > > I swapped in the one bar of like memory i could find -- no luck > > I plugged/unplugged every card in the box -- no luck > > I'm guessing the bios got screwed by a power surge (although that > doesn't explain why it started rebooting overnight - it was fine last > night) > > I'm at a loss of what to do - i tried tossing the drives into the > other boxes i have in the office, but then i get > === > Using Drive: 0 Partition: 3 > reading boot... > Bad magic > === > Which google says is something that I really don't want to see. > > barring a miracle, i need to get a new firewall > > the downed machine has all of the local networking stuff -- firewall, > lan, proxy stuff -- which i need to get off -- we never backed it up, > and there's too much to rewrite > > does anyone have a suggestion to make my week less of a nightmare? Sounds like a bad disklabel. Sit down and breath slowly. When you are OK, go find a copy of scan_ffs - a disklabel recovery tool, written by some OpenBSD guys. My candidate for the BEST BUTTSAVER award. You may need to transfer the disk to a working system to use it. It might also be on a rescue CD or live-CD. Check around. I was able to use this tool to recover my FreeBSD disklabel even after I had tried recreating it by hand - a mistake as it turned out. Hope this helps, Jim B. From jfreeman Fri Aug 5 16:19:23 2005 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:19:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy Message-ID: So, finally I'm getting around to installing FreeBSD on my IBM T42 laptop. I'm using Fdisk to create the partitions... I'm trying to do: ad0s1 / ad0s2 swap ad0s3 /var ad0s4 /tmp ad0s5 /usr Everything goes fine except when it's time to create the fifth slice (ad0s5). All the other slices come up wth the expected names (ad0s1 - ad0s4) but the last slice always comes up as name 'X'. When I go to install it can't create /usr because it can't figure out what 'X' is or how to mount it. Can anyone help out here? J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From scottro Fri Aug 5 16:28:03 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:28:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F3C72F.3000907@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <42F3C72F.3000907@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050805202803.GD1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 04:08:15PM -0400, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Scott Robbins wrote: > > Although rxvt allows similar effects, I find aterm faster--and that is > > totally subjective, no I cannot prove it. :) So, I'm casting my vote > > for aterm. Kev, Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? > > Yes, my dsylexic friend, regardless of WM :) You mean MW, don't you? I just quickly installed it and couldn't get rid of the top bar--a quick look at the man page indicated that the -x option should get rid of borders, but it leaves the top one, with the menus. Is there a way to get rid of that one too? - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Are you crazy? You just don't sneak up on people in a graveyard. You make noise when you walk, you stomp, or... yodel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC88vT+lTVdes0Z9YRAsvRAKDF8WCM+p0JAGdElMDuNSamie+F2gCfTT8J BhJGn6CV48xV6Mr2qpc6fHs= =AW6i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jvanasco Fri Aug 5 16:28:45 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:28:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rescuing an OpenBSD 3.0 System In-Reply-To: <20050805201026.GA33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> References: <20050804155725.CTWL2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> <34DB2FC9-6E60-459F-98F8-B63D8E2F27DD@mastersofbranding.com> <20050805201026.GA33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: 1) thanks to everyone so far I pieced together a machine w/a cdrom and 3 nics - i'm going to try one of the firewalls on cd distributions, so other people in my office get internet while i work on this in regards to what others said: On Aug 5, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Sounds like a bad disklabel. > > Sit down and breath slowly. > > When you are OK, go find a copy of scan_ffs - a disklabel recovery > tool, written > by some OpenBSD guys. My candidate for the BEST BUTTSAVER award. I'll try that shortly -- that sounds like it could be an issue on the other machines i pop the drives into. On Aug 5, 2005, at 4:01 PM, bruno wrote: > It could be overheating, or something got damaged (PS?). > > If you haven't yet, check: > - PowerSupply - if possible, test with another one > - is cpu fan spinning? cpu overheat could cause reboots like those CPU fan is spinning. I'll try finding another power supply. If this machine would work for 15minutes, I'd be ridiculously happy. From jfreeman Fri Aug 5 16:32:12 2005 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:32:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind Message-ID: Ok, I reformatted the disk... And only used 50% of it to create a FreeBSD partition and then I had the installer automatically create the slices to fit in that partition... The install is going now.. Still.. That was mightly confusing that I couldn't create that fifth slice myself. J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From mspitzer Fri Aug 5 16:35:02 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:35:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508051335444673ac@mail.gmail.com> I think you are confusing partitions with slices. For what you want to do create 1 partition that has the whole disk and create slices in that partition. Also do not forget if you want hibernate to work you need to make an os2 partition then grab the rest for bsd so you need 2 partition and all your slices go in the second one. Read this: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-steps.html it does a better job then I do explaining things. marc On 8/5/05, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > So, finally I'm getting around to installing FreeBSD on my IBM T42 laptop. > > I'm using Fdisk to create the partitions... > > I'm trying to do: > > ad0s1 / > ad0s2 swap > ad0s3 /var > ad0s4 /tmp > ad0s5 /usr > > Everything goes fine except when it's time to create the fifth slice > (ad0s5). All the other slices come up wth the expected names (ad0s1 - > ad0s4) but the last slice always comes up as name 'X'. > > When I go to install it can't create /usr because it can't figure out what > 'X' is or how to mount it. > > Can anyone help out here? > > J. > > -- > > COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ > Joshua S. Freeman > Dir. of Information Technology > New York Botanical Garden > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information > intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific > purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you > should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of > this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly > prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From j Fri Aug 5 16:37:18 2005 From: j (Freeman, Joshua) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:37:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy Message-ID: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E050291064A@xmail.nybg.org> Thanks Marc, Once i understood the difference between sleep and hibernation I decided to forego hibernation... I understood your message perfectly.. So.. i now have two 19GB partitions on the disk.. the first one is freebsd and that's divided into slices for the install... later, i'll install XP Pro on the second partition. Thanks! J. Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org -----Original Message----- From: Marc Spitzer [mailto:mspitzer at gmail.com] Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 4:35 PM To: Freeman, Joshua Cc: NYCBUG discussion list Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy I think you are confusing partitions with slices. For what you want to do create 1 partition that has the whole disk and create slices in that partition. Also do not forget if you want hibernate to work you need to make an os2 partition then grab the rest for bsd so you need 2 partition and all your slices go in the second one. Read this: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-steps.html it does a better job then I do explaining things. marc On 8/5/05, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > So, finally I'm getting around to installing FreeBSD on my IBM T42 laptop. > > I'm using Fdisk to create the partitions... > > I'm trying to do: > > ad0s1 / > ad0s2 swap > ad0s3 /var > ad0s4 /tmp > ad0s5 /usr > > Everything goes fine except when it's time to create the fifth slice > (ad0s5). All the other slices come up wth the expected names (ad0s1 - > ad0s4) but the last slice always comes up as name 'X'. > > When I go to install it can't create /usr because it can't figure out what > 'X' is or how to mount it. > > Can anyone help out here? > > J. > > -- > > COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ > Joshua S. Freeman > Dir. of Information Technology > New York Botanical Garden > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information > intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific > purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you > should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of > this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly > prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050805/681483f0/attachment.html From jpb Fri Aug 5 16:39:48 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:39:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050805203948.GB33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Joshua S. Freeman [2005-08-05 16:19]: > So, finally I'm getting around to installing FreeBSD on my IBM T42 laptop. > > I'm using Fdisk to create the partitions... > > I'm trying to do: > > ad0s1 / > ad0s2 swap > ad0s3 /var > ad0s4 /tmp > ad0s5 /usr > > Everything goes fine except when it's time to create the fifth slice > (ad0s5). All the other slices come up wth the expected names (ad0s1 - > ad0s4) but the last slice always comes up as name 'X'. > > When I go to install it can't create /usr because it can't figure out what > 'X' is or how to mount it. > > Can anyone help out here? > > J. Hi Joshua, Looks like you are confusing 'slices' and 'partitions'. The BSD family uses slices inside a disk partition to allocate filesystems. The BSD disk naming scheme is fully described in: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/disk-organization.html http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-steps.html http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=disklabel&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+5.4-RELEASE+and+Ports&format=html Briefly, here are my filesystems: /dev/ad0s1a on / (ufs, local) /dev/ad0s1e on /home (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad0s1f on /opt (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad0s1g on /tmp (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad0s1d on /usr (ufs, local, soft-updates) /dev/ad0s1h on /var (ufs, local, soft-updates) The BSD OS always allocates any swap on ddnsnb and the full disk character device at ddnsnc where 'ddn' is the disk type and number and 'sn' is the slice number. So my swap and charcter disk device are actually /dev/ad0s1b and /dev/ad0s1c Hope this helps, Jim B. From nycbug Fri Aug 5 16:43:50 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:43:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050805194113.GA28090@netmeister.org> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194113.GA28090@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <20050805204350.GD13359@syntax.cyth.net> On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 03:41:13PM -0400, Jan Schaumann wrote: > Kevin Reiter wrote: > > pete wright wrote: > > > > but as far > > > as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is > > > konsole. > > But doesn't konsole pull in a bazillion huge kdependencies, such as Qt, > kdelibs, keverything... ? Just to get a shell? > > What's the thing that makes konsole the killer terminal for you? Ie, > what does it that xterm doesn't do? Or aterm? I personally use aterm because it has a smaller memory footprint than xterm. -Ray- From mspitzer Fri Aug 5 16:44:52 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:44:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy In-Reply-To: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E050291064A@xmail.nybg.org> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E050291064A@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050805134427698149@mail.gmail.com> Before you start using the box double check your slice sizes, you may want to redo it. IMO most/all automatic slice layouts will be dememted, Solaris is just plane nuts here. Remember /usr is stable /usr/ports and /usr/local grow and grow if left alone. On 8/5/05, Freeman, Joshua wrote: > Thanks Marc, > > Once i understood the difference between sleep and hibernation I decided to forego hibernation... I understood your message perfectly.. > > So.. i now have two 19GB partitions on the disk.. the first one is freebsd and that's divided into slices for the install... > > later, i'll install XP Pro on the second partition. > > Thanks! > > J. > > Joshua S. Freeman > Director, Information Technology, NYBG > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > jfreeman at nybg dot org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Spitzer [mailto:mspitzer at gmail.com] > Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 4:35 PM > To: Freeman, Joshua > Cc: NYCBUG discussion list > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy > > I think you are confusing partitions with slices. For what you want > to do create 1 partition that has the whole disk and create slices in > that partition. Also do not forget if you want hibernate to work you > need to make an os2 partition then grab the rest for bsd so you need 2 > partition and all your slices go in the second one. Read this: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-steps.html > > it does a better job then I do explaining things. > > marc > > On 8/5/05, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > > So, finally I'm getting around to installing FreeBSD on my IBM T42 laptop. > > > > I'm using Fdisk to create the partitions... > > > > I'm trying to do: > > > > ad0s1 / > > ad0s2 swap > > ad0s3 /var > > ad0s4 /tmp > > ad0s5 /usr > > > > Everything goes fine except when it's time to create the fifth slice > > (ad0s5). All the other slices come up wth the expected names (ad0s1 - > > ad0s4) but the last slice always comes up as name 'X'. > > > > When I go to install it can't create /usr because it can't figure out what > > 'X' is or how to mount it. > > > > Can anyone help out here? > > > > J. > > > > -- > > > > COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ > > Joshua S. Freeman > > Dir. of Information Technology > > New York Botanical Garden > > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > > > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information > > intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific > > purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you > > should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of > > this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly > > prohibited. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > > > > > > From jpb Fri Aug 5 16:51:09 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:51:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Joshua S. Freeman [2005-08-05 16:32]: > Ok, I reformatted the disk... And only used 50% of it to create a FreeBSD > partition and then I had the installer automatically create the slices to > fit in that partition... > > The install is going now.. Still.. That was mightly confusing that I > couldn't create that fifth slice myself. > > J. > -- You might actually want to reconsider using the 'auto' option to allocate filesystems and sizes. One reason is inadequate download space. Some web browers and ftp clients insist on using /tmp as the download area for files you request to be downloaded. Say you want to download the next BSD OS release- generally 650+ MB- you may need to have that much space in /tmp to actually download the file. Once the download is complete, the app moves the file to whereever you wanted to put it. My own layout is usually something like this: slice mount size -------------------------------- a / 1GB b (swap) 2 x memory size c (char. disk) d /home 1GB e /opt 1GB f /tmp 1GB g /var 1GB h /usr remainder of disk Aside from root, swap, and chardisk, the mount points form the acronym 'hotvu' which makes it easy for me to remember. Other layouts anyone? Jim B. From j Fri Aug 5 16:56:42 2005 From: j (Freeman, Joshua) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:56:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind Message-ID: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E050291064B@xmail.nybg.org> Thanks, as always, for the wise insight Jim... Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org -----Original Message----- From: Jim Brown [mailto:jpb at sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net] Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 4:51 PM To: Freeman, Joshua Cc: NYCBUG discussion list Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Never mind * Joshua S. Freeman [2005-08-05 16:32]: > Ok, I reformatted the disk... And only used 50% of it to create a FreeBSD > partition and then I had the installer automatically create the slices to > fit in that partition... > > The install is going now.. Still.. That was mightly confusing that I > couldn't create that fifth slice myself. > > J. > -- You might actually want to reconsider using the 'auto' option to allocate filesystems and sizes. One reason is inadequate download space. Some web browers and ftp clients insist on using /tmp as the download area for files you request to be downloaded. Say you want to download the next BSD OS release- generally 650+ MB- you may need to have that much space in /tmp to actually download the file. Once the download is complete, the app moves the file to whereever you wanted to put it. My own layout is usually something like this: slice mount size -------------------------------- a / 1GB b (swap) 2 x memory size c (char. disk) d /home 1GB e /opt 1GB f /tmp 1GB g /var 1GB h /usr remainder of disk Aside from root, swap, and chardisk, the mount points form the acronym 'hotvu' which makes it easy for me to remember. Other layouts anyone? Jim B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050805/259ee8a2/attachment.html From nomadlogic Fri Aug 5 17:05:01 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:05:01 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050805194113.GA28090@netmeister.org> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194113.GA28090@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <57d7100005080514052b5762e4@mail.gmail.com> On 8/5/05, Jan Schaumann wrote: > > Kevin Reiter wrote: > > pete wright wrote: > > > > but as far > > > as one of the first things i install on a new personal workstation is > > > konsole. > > But doesn't konsole pull in a bazillion huge kdependencies, such as Qt, > kdelibs, keverything... ? Just to get a shell? > > What's the thing that makes konsole the killer terminal for you? Ie, > what does it that xterm doesn't do? yes you are exactly correct, it does pull in all that stuff. for me this is not an issue as at work we have standardized on KDE and at home I run both KDE and Gnome on my workstation. obviously this may not be desired behaviour for all installations, and thank goodness xterm is still the gold standard in reliability/interoperability and stability IMO and is always there. for me, the big winner with Konsole is tabbed browsing, easy configuration (easy meaning i can be lazy and use a gui to make changes to key bindings/color scheeme etc.) and overall performance. -pete "not planning on converting anyone over to konsole, but it works great for me" wright ;^) -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050805/73a40e64/attachment.html From lists Sat Aug 6 11:27:26 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508051335444673ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508051335444673ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050806112648.P37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I think you are confusing partitions with slices. For what you want Also, using /stand/sysinstall is probably the easiest way to do it. From lists Sat Aug 6 11:31:27 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Going crazy In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050805134427698149@mail.gmail.com> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E050291064A@xmail.nybg.org> <8c50a3c3050805134427698149@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050806112810.N37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > Remember /usr is stable /usr/ports and /usr/local grow and grow if left alone. In additon to Marc's comments which I agree.. also consider... Although numbers vary according to usage, I find that /usr usually uses 4GB or less... **** IF ***** you have your data somewhere else. I do / 512MB swap /var 512MB /usr 6GB /data or some other name.. the rest of the disk Depending on your setup you may also want to create a separate /tmp So far have never used more than 2 to 4 GB on /usr From lists Sat Aug 6 11:33:53 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network strangeness (resource starvation?) In-Reply-To: References: <20050731141755.GA5884@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050806113202.P37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Well, during a "lull", we were at about 600 queries/second, and it spikes up > much higher than that. doing my weekly list catch up.. I recently started a job and they use djbdns.. How can you tell the number of queries? So many things need to check that have not had time to even read on djdns yet. :-( > Hardware is all pretty decent, SuperMicro SuperServers (pre-built, various What is the TTL for the domains hosted by the DNS server? If the TTL is low then DNS usage will be significantly higher. From lists Sat Aug 6 11:42:56 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050806114059.Q37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > you know i've been thinking about this thread for a couple days. i really > don't have one WM i love, or use exclusivly I find XFCE light weight enough and enough features for my needs, but have not looked for an alternative in years. I used to have low memory and between option for looking for a lower memory utilization on the WM and upgrading memory.. just got more memory. :-) From lists Sat Aug 6 11:43:44 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050806114314.F37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Kevin Reiter wrote: > anymore since discovering Fluxbox. Eterm works great with just about If you know... How does Fluxbox compares to XFce? From lists Sat Aug 6 11:47:32 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > Although rxvt allows similar effects, I find aterm faster--and that is > totally subjective, no I cannot prove it. :) So, I'm casting my vote > for aterm. A vote for Aterm too.. I started using actually forced by rxvt not working on a machine all of a sudden.. have switched since... Compared memory usage on another machine and if I recall correctly aterm has slightly less. >Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? Have never used Eterm... what is the advantage of it over rxvt or aterm? From tux Sat Aug 6 12:09:31 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:09:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050805202803.GD1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <42F3C72F.3000907@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805202803.GD1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <42F4E0BB.1070200@penguinnetwerx.net> Scott Robbins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 04:08:15PM -0400, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >>>Scott Robbins wrote: > > > > >>>>Although rxvt allows similar effects, I find aterm faster--and that is >>>>totally subjective, no I cannot prove it. :) So, I'm casting my vote >>>>for aterm. Kev, Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? >>> >>>Yes, my dsylexic friend, regardless of WM :) > > > > You mean MW, don't you? I just quickly installed it and > couldn't get rid of the top bar--a quick look at the man page indicated > that the -x option should get rid of borders, but it leaves the top one, > with the menus. Is there a way to get rid of that > one too? I don't recall right now which switch it is that makes the menu dissappear, but if you use the -h switch it displays a LONG list of options, which is how I found it. (I used to pipe it to a text file for easier reading...) You can also edit the config file (in your $HOME) to make permanent changes to the behavior, which is the easiest way to do it once you find the combination of switches that suites you. You can also have different config files (no borders, transparent, etc.) and call them for different things (transparent window for tailing logs, normal window, etc.) I'll check my laptop after I'm finished running cable to my new office and send you my config off-list. -Kev From alexgill Sat Aug 6 12:37:38 2005 From: alexgill (Gill, Alex) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:37:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42F4E752.2070904@tekwerx.biz> Isaac Levy wrote: > who tends to live at shells on remote servers, and listen to a lot of > music... I like using multiple desktops, and usually switch between > LOTS of windows while working. I'm also an avid key-command user, and > learn new GUI app key commands fast- but I expect consistency for any > of it to make sense to me. XFCE4.0: I've been using XFCE4.0 for about a year and I'm happy with it: --It runs as components, which means you can drop the panel & taskbar and just run the WM and desktop modules (xfce-mcs-manager, xfwm4, xfdesktop). This leaves clean a desktop. (Right click give a menu.) --These key binding are builtin: F2 to launch app; ALT+CTRL to alt bet workspaces, resizing with alt F5, F6, F7; alt+F4 to kill... --Windows snap nicely! --nice themes to choose from out of box Caveats: I don't use their session mgr, so I set up workspaces over after startingx. 4.2 looks very nice, but don't know if it's easy to start certain modules but no others-- see above. Alex From bruno Sat Aug 6 13:01:11 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:01:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050806170111.GG9332@loftmail.com> On Fri, Aug 05, 2005 at 04:51:09PM -0400, Jim Brown wrote: > * Joshua S. Freeman [2005-08-05 16:32]: > > Ok, I reformatted the disk... And only used 50% of it to create a FreeBSD > > partition and then I had the installer automatically create the slices to > > fit in that partition... > > > > The install is going now.. Still.. That was mightly confusing that I > > couldn't create that fifth slice myself. > > You might actually want to reconsider using the 'auto' option to > allocate filesystems and sizes. One reason is inadequate download > space. > > Some web browers and ftp clients insist on using /tmp as the download > area for files you request to be downloaded. Say you want to download > the next BSD OS release- generally 650+ MB- you may need to have > that much space in /tmp to actually download the file. Once the > download is complete, the app moves the file to whereever you wanted > to put it. You can override that with TMPDIR var. From scottro Sat Aug 6 13:32:04 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:32:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 11:47:32AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > >Eterm allows borderless, regardless of WM? > > Have never used Eterm... what is the advantage of it over rxvt or aterm? More eye candy, I think, more configuration options--some things can be toggled on and off from its menu, such as the scrollbar. I believe it uses more resources than the others. Also, as for your other question about flux and xfce, I used xfce awhile ago, out of curiosity. With fluxbox, you have to use a 3rd party app to use icons (which I don't use.) Both flux and xfce let you configure just about everything with keybindings (though I don't remember if xfce let me open the root menu with a keybinding, something else which I use.) I can't honestly say, "Oh, flux is blazingly faster," for on a reasonably powered box, say 1 gig CPU and 512 megs of RAM they seem to be about the same. I suspect that much of this discussion about WM's and terminals resembles a discussion I saw long ago on google about mutt and pine--someone posted, "People tend to give all sorts of technical reasons to support what is, in the end, an emotional decision." :) - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Dracula: Very impressive hunt. Such power. Buffy: That was no hunt. That was just another day on the job. Care to step up for some overtime? Dracula: We're not going to fight. Buffy: Do you know what a Slayer is? Dracula: Do you? Buffy: Who are you? Dracula: I apologize. I assumed you knew. I am Dracula. Buffy: Get out! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9PQU+lTVdes0Z9YRApJvAJwPHP+c2qdn3Xm6y4NWKOm/R2GoQgCdHvBP zqrnhM7P/OltKCTwaxkrUUg= =E898 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ike Sat Aug 6 13:56:46 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:56:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> Hey All, On Aug 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Other layouts anyone? > Yeah, but throwing in .02$ on MacOSX mount point scheme- looking at the problem from a fundamental perspective: -- Basically, Apple threw out the slicing conventions alltogether- and simply focused on protecting various directory trees using permissions, (and now acl's etc...), which we do on other BSD's in the first place. With that, seeing as a modern filesystem, (Journaled HFS+ on OSX), disk fragmentation is not an issue as it was in the past, so that aspect of the reasons for partitioning is now moot. Secondarily, in the context of a widely mixed-use, mixed-context computer, (a User Desktop/Workstation), the applications run are quite varied in behavior, resource needs, etc... so problems like this browser issue are not really problems- (you have the whole disk to use, and lots of visual/graphical/ui indicators for how much file space you have on deck...) So with that, there's also little risk, in many User/Desktop contexts, of resource-based attacks which can't be solved by a user easily- (deleting files when HD is too full...), so while I'll follow rigid partitioning schemes on a server connected to the www, it doesn't seem to be the same issue at all to me on my Laptop. -- What does everyone else think of this? Does anyone run another *BSD as a desktop/laptop/workstation OS and simply live in one big / partition? UFS has fairly sophisticated schemes for suppressing disk fragmentation, (actually, BSD OS really nailed this issue in the filesystem years ago), so what does everyone think? Run wild withone big / (!?!?) Rocket- .ike From vertigo Sat Aug 6 14:44:52 2005 From: vertigo (Vertigo) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:44:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hey Message-ID: <20050806184452.GB25084@abbott.setec.org> I feel pretty lame about this, but I subscribed to the wrong mailing list. What's up woth the con in September (volunteer mailing list, etc.) I was planning on offering my services sitting behind a DV cam. (I've picked it up as a hobby, but have not made a full investment yet. It's a bit expensive, and as always, I'm a bit broke.) Are we streaming the presentations, creating a podcast, or both? Nathan -- "In the outside world, all forms of intelligence, whether of sound or sight, have been reduced to the form of varying currents in an electric circuit in order that they may be transmitted." --Vannevar Bush, 1945 From scottro Sat Aug 6 15:16:50 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:16:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050806191650.GA45557@mail.scottro.net> Re the earlier eterm things--Kev, if you see this, never mind, I figured it out--the man page tricked me, calling the menubar a buttonbar and as I'd just done a cursory search for menu I missed it. So, if anyone is interested, the command (most of which could be set elsewhere as per Kev's post, to get a completely borderless transparent eterm, it's Eterm -x --buttonbar false --scrollbar false -O (the -x makes it borderless and that is a capital letter o at the end, not the numeral zero, which makes it transparent.) -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050806/c2713fac/attachment.bin From spork Sat Aug 6 15:30:05 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD and hardware monitoring (ServerWorks) Message-ID: Hi all, While trying to track down some nasty problems that are now leading to more and more reboots, I was thinking "Hmmm... it would be nice to know if all the fans are spinning, voltage is proper, cpus are not too hot". In the past, I've fiddled with lmmon, xmbmon, healthd and none of them seem to deal with "server class" machines that use the ServerWorks chipset. ie: toolbox[/usr/ports/sysutils/xmbmon/work/xmbmon205]# ./mbmon -d -A SMBus[ServerWorks(ServerSet Chipset)] found, but No HWM available on it!! Summary of Detection: * No monitors found. I'm almost ranting... FreeBSD really needs something like lmsensors to make it ready for full co-lo use. I can monitor all kinds of stuff on remote boxes except for the rather important "are my cpu fans spinning?" stuff. This client would dole out some money for someone to get this working. Where do I start? Is lmmsensors so linux-specific that it simply can't be ported? Should they look at extending something like mbmon? Thanks, Charles ___ Charles Sprickman NetEng/SysAdmin Bway.net - New York's Best Internet - www.bway.net spork at bway.net - 212.655.9344 From lists Sat Aug 6 20:03:08 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user Message-ID: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> Besides the AllowUsers parameter in sshd_config is there is anything else that would allow certain users, but not others to ssh to a machine? Have a machine that one id can connect to, but not a second one.. I "inherited" the setup so don't know yet what setups each machine has yet. Have an ID I was given to login, but now going to each machine to create my own ID and so far this is the only machine with this problem. So far also checked /etc/login.access and there was nothing there that is preventing me to login and there is no AllowUsers setting in /etc/sshd_config The machine I am trying to connect to is FreeBSD Release 5.3 and connecting from a FreeBSD 5.4 Doing ssh -v to the machine with the problem ID shows OpenSSH_3.8.1p1 FreeBSD-20040419, OpenSSL 0.9.7e 25 Oct 2004 debug1: Reading configuration data /home/fran/.ssh/config debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config debug1: Connecting to Port 22. debug1: Connection established. debug1: identity file /home/fran/.ssh/identity type -1 debug1: identity file /home/fran/.ssh/id_rsa type -1 debug1: identity file /home/fran/.ssh/id_dsa type 2 debug1: Remote protocol version 2.0, remote software version OpenSSH_3.8.1p1 FreeBSD-20040419 debug1: match: OpenSSH_3.8.1p1 FreeBSD-20040419 pat OpenSSH* debug1: Enabling compatibility mode for protocol 2.0 debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_3.8.1p1 FreeBSD-20040419 debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEXINIT received debug1: kex: server->client aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST(1024<1024<8192) sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_INIT sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REPLY debug1: Host is known and matches the DSA host key. debug1: Found key in /home/fran/.ssh/known_hosts:25 debug1: ssh_dss_verify: signature correct debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS debug1: SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS received debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_REQUEST sent debug1: SSH2_MSG_SERVICE_ACCEPT received debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,keyboard-interactive debug1: Next authentication method: publickey debug1: Offering public key: /home/fran/.ssh/id_dsa debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,keyboard-interactive debug1: Trying private key: /home/fran/.ssh/identity debug1: Trying private key: /home/fran/.ssh/id_rsa debug1: Next authentication method: keyboard-interactive Password: Have reset the password a few times to make sure I have it right.. The output from /var/messages is sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from Also if I ssh using the other ID I am able to su to the trouble ID From spork Sat Aug 6 20:14:18 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > The output from /var/messages is > > sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from What's in /var/log/auth.log? SSHD by default (on FreeBSD) will log more interesting stuff there. Charles > Also if I ssh using the other ID I am able to su to the trouble ID > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From lists Sat Aug 6 20:46:14 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> The output from /var/messages is >> >> sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from > > What's in /var/log/auth.log? SSHD by default (on FreeBSD) will log more > interesting stuff there. Same error. I actually found the problem.. was planning to send note to list, but looking into another issue and got caught up. :-( The rights of the .ssh directory were wrong. I needs to be 700. I just wish sshd would say something about it.. somewhere.. anywhere.. It's near trivial to fix, yet it could be a few days before one things of looking at that. :-( From mspitzer Sat Aug 6 21:37:02 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:37:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050806183743a7e27d@mail.gmail.com> On 8/6/05, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey All, > > On Aug 5, 2005, at 4:51 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > > > Other layouts anyone? > > > > Yeah, but throwing in .02$ on MacOSX mount point scheme- looking at > the problem from a fundamental perspective: > > -- > Basically, Apple threw out the slicing conventions alltogether- and > simply focused on protecting various directory trees using > permissions, (and now acl's etc...), which we do on other BSD's in > the first place. > > With that, seeing as a modern filesystem, (Journaled HFS+ on OSX), > disk fragmentation is not an issue as it was in the past, so that > aspect of the reasons for partitioning is now moot. > > Secondarily, in the context of a widely mixed-use, mixed-context > computer, (a User Desktop/Workstation), the applications run are > quite varied in behavior, resource needs, etc... so problems like > this browser issue are not really problems- (you have the whole disk > to use, and lots of visual/graphical/ui indicators for how much file > space you have on deck...) > > So with that, there's also little risk, in many User/Desktop > contexts, of resource-based attacks which can't be solved by a user > easily- (deleting files when HD is too full...), so while I'll follow > rigid partitioning schemes on a server connected to the www, it > doesn't seem to be the same issue at all to me on my Laptop. > > -- > What does everyone else think of this? Does anyone run another *BSD > as a desktop/laptop/workstation OS and simply live in one big / > partition? UFS has fairly sophisticated schemes for suppressing disk > fragmentation, (actually, BSD OS really nailed this issue in the > filesystem years ago), so what does everyone think? > > Run wild withone big / (!?!?) > its not a bad setup for a desk top, one bad point is / is a R/W files ystem with lots of writes. For servers it is less useful, I do not want syslog spam to fill my database partition for example. It depends on what you are doing marc From george Sat Aug 6 21:41:47 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 21:41:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 08:46:14PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>> >>>sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from >> >The rights of the .ssh directory were wrong. >I needs to be 700. I just wish sshd would say something about it.. >somewhere.. anywhere.. It's near trivial to fix, yet it could be a few >days before one things of looking at that. :-( yeah, would be nice to know that from the logs. another thing that can bite pub keys but not pam is ownership of $HOME // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From lists Sat Aug 6 22:12:59 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > I suspect that much of this discussion about WM's and terminals > resembles a discussion I saw long ago on google about mutt and > pine--someone posted, "People tend to give all sorts of technical > reasons to support what is, in the end, an emotional decision." :) Not entirely.. something like how much memory a program uses is not an emotional decision specially if you have a range of machines you plan to install including old machines with less memory. From lists Sat Aug 6 22:18:05 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050806221547.F41024@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > another thing that can bite pub keys but not pam > is ownership of $HOME What sort of permissions cause trouble for sshd? 755 seems to work fine and can't imagine ever wanting to give 777 to home. Using dsa public keys in my case. From george Sat Aug 6 22:55:36 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:55:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > >> I suspect that much of this discussion about WM's and terminals >> resembles a discussion I saw long ago on google about mutt and >> pine--someone posted, "People tend to give all sorts of technical >> reasons to support what is, in the end, an emotional decision." :) > > > Not entirely.. something like how much memory a program uses is not an > emotional decision specially if you have a range of machines you plan to > install including old machines with less memory. I agree with you Francisco, and we're also talking about what we're running on a desktop as a primary workstation/laptop. There's the central question of functionality plus resource usage. If it's a user new the BSD land, then you might go with KDE with it's greedy needs. But (when) we start doing regular online polls, I'd bet half the list uses fluxbox, and the other half xfce(4). Except Hans, of course. What I don't understand is the aterm/eterm/rxvt discussion. I need something readable and clear, so I've never gone past xterm -bg black -fg green for any extended period of time. Transparency, lack of scroll bars, etc, is just to way overcomplicated when I just want a clean xterm. g From george Sat Aug 6 22:56:35 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:56:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hey In-Reply-To: <20050806184452.GB25084@abbott.setec.org> References: <20050806184452.GB25084@abbott.setec.org> Message-ID: <42F57863.6050100@sddi.net> Vertigo wrote: > I feel pretty lame about this, but I subscribed to the wrong mailing list. > What's up woth the con in September (volunteer mailing list, etc.) I > was planning on offering my services sitting behind a DV cam. (I've > picked it up as a hobby, but have not made a full investment yet. It's > a bit expensive, and as always, I'm a bit broke.) Are we streaming > the presentations, creating a podcast, or both? Glad to hear from you Nathan. About time you joined talk. We'll take this offlist, but it's you and Max on this. . . George From okan Sat Aug 6 23:05:09 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 23:05:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050807030509.GA84143@yinaska.pair.com> On Sat 2005.08.06 at 22:55 -0400, George Rosamond wrote: > But (when) we start doing regular online polls, I'd bet half the list > uses fluxbox, and the other half xfce(4). Except Hans, of course. and one fvwm ;) > What I don't understand is the aterm/eterm/rxvt discussion. memory footprint. run all of them, then compare the footprint to features ratios.... > I need something readable and clear, so I've never gone past > xterm -bg black -fg green > for any extended period of time. :) > Transparency, lack of scroll bars, etc, is just to way overcomplicated > when I just want a clean xterm. agreed - why make your life more complicated? From okan Sat Aug 6 23:07:52 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 23:07:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> On Sat 2005.08.06 at 20:46 -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: > > >>The output from /var/messages is > >> > >>sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from > > > >What's in /var/log/auth.log? SSHD by default (on FreeBSD) will log more > >interesting stuff there. > > Same error. > > I actually found the problem.. was planning to send note to list, but > looking into another issue and got caught up. :-( > > The rights of the .ssh directory were wrong. > I needs to be 700. I just wish sshd would say something about it.. > somewhere.. anywhere.. It's near trivial to fix, yet it could be a few > days before one things of looking at that. :-( uhm. i don't know what freebsd has done here (or your setup), but it clearly shows you - from both v1 and v2 pubkey auth: if (options.strict_modes && secure_filename(f, file, pw, line, sizeof(line)) != 0) { fclose(f); logit("Authentication refused: %s", line); restore_uid(); return 0; } which shows up like this in my logs: Aug 6 22:38:44 hydrogen sshd[23929]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for directory /home/okan/.ssh Aug 6 22:38:44 hydrogen sshd[23929]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for directory /home/okan/.ssh $0.02 okan From lists Sat Aug 6 23:53:03 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 23:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050806234105.H41397@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > What I don't understand is the aterm/eterm/rxvt discussion. Both rxvt and aterm use less memory than xterm. They use about 2MB less than xterm (just double checked xterm vs aterm.. 2MB less on total memory usage and 3MB less on loaded). Have never used eterm. > Transparency, lack of scroll bars, etc, is just to way overcomplicated when I > just want a clean xterm. For the longest I used rxvt because it's smaller than xterm.. and once had a problem where rxvt didn't work. Tried aterm on the machine and worked. Also checked memory footprint. If memory serves me well aterm used slightly less memory. Have been using aterm ever since. For a basic replacement for xterm with less memory comsumption I think either aterm or rxvt will be fine. Don't know which of the two has fancier features.. I don't use anything fancy. The only setting change I do for aterm is to setup the bar on the right an increase the number of lines I can scroll back. .Xdefaults aterm*saveLines: 10000 aterm*scrollBar_right: true I believe there are some rare instances where a program will not work on aterm/rxvt and would in xterm, but I don't recall ever encountering one.. I just think I read something once on archives. From george Sun Aug 7 00:31:09 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:31:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050806221547.F41024@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> <20050806221547.F41024@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807043109.GA31731@sta.duo> On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 10:18:05PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > >>another thing that can bite pub keys but not pam >>is ownership of $HOME > >What sort of permissions cause trouble for sshd? >755 seems to work fine and can't imagine ever wanting to give 777 to home. chown user2:user2 ~user1 ...ssh doesn't like that, umm but I don't know who owned ~user1/.ssh (700) when I had that problem. (from the school of too many shortcuts and system creation) // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From spork Sun Aug 7 00:46:38 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807014147.GA28924@sta.duo> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 08:46:14PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>>> >>>> sshd[27236]: error: PAM: authentication error for fran from >>> >> The rights of the .ssh directory were wrong. >> I needs to be 700. I just wish sshd would say something about it.. >> somewhere.. anywhere.. It's near trivial to fix, yet it could be a few >> days before one things of looking at that. :-( > > yeah, would be nice to know that from the logs. > another thing that can bite pub keys but not pam > is ownership of $HOME Mine complains loudly if I do something like set my authorized_keys file to group writable, or set the ownership wrong: Aug 7 00:43:46 miko su: spork to root on /dev/ttyp3 Aug 7 00:44:19 miko sshd[33117]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for file /home/spork/.ssh/authorized_keys FreeBSD 4.11, stock openssh. Charles > // George > > > -- > George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < > http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From george Sun Aug 7 00:53:38 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 00:53:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> ...this time addressed to the list... On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 11:07:52PM -0400, Okan Demirmen wrote: >On Sat 2005.08.06 at 20:46 -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> >> The rights of the .ssh directory were wrong. >> I needs to be 700. I just wish sshd would say something about it.. >> somewhere.. anywhere.. It's near trivial to fix, yet it could be a few >> days before one things of looking at that. :-( > >uhm. i don't know what freebsd has done here (or your setup), but it >clearly shows you - from both v1 and v2 pubkey auth: > > if (options.strict_modes && > secure_filename(f, file, pw, line, sizeof(line)) != 0) { > fclose(f); > logit("Authentication refused: %s", line); > restore_uid(); > return 0; > } > >which shows up like this in my logs: >Aug 6 22:38:44 hydrogen sshd[23929]: Authentication refused: bad >ownership or modes for directory /home/okan/.ssh >Aug 6 22:38:44 hydrogen sshd[23929]: Authentication refused: bad >ownership or modes for directory /home/okan/.ssh right, we must remember to look in /var/log/auth.log // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From nomadlogic Sun Aug 7 01:04:55 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:04:55 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> Message-ID: <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> On 8/6/05, George R. wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > >> I suspect that much of this discussion about WM's and terminals > >> resembles a discussion I saw long ago on google about mutt and > >> pine--someone posted, "People tend to give all sorts of technical > >> reasons to support what is, in the end, an emotional decision." :) > > > > > > Not entirely.. something like how much memory a program uses is not an > > emotional decision specially if you have a range of machines you plan to > > install including old machines with less memory. > > I agree with you Francisco, and we're also talking about what we're > running on a desktop as a primary workstation/laptop. > > There's the central question of functionality plus resource usage. > > If it's a user new the BSD land, then you might go with KDE with it's > greedy needs. > > But (when) we start doing regular online polls, I'd bet half the list > uses fluxbox, and the other half xfce(4). Except Hans, of course. > > What I don't understand is the aterm/eterm/rxvt discussion. > > I need something readable and clear, so I've never gone past > xterm -bg black -fg green > for any extended period of time. > > Transparency, lack of scroll bars, etc, is just to way overcomplicated > when I just want a clean xterm. > yea i totally agree, when i have one off shell jobs, or know i'm going to be able to complete a task in one sitting xterm is the way to go (although "-fg green" gman youre killing me ;p). yet when i have sessions open for long peroids of time, for me a tabbed shell is a must as is a tabbed web browser. i gave aterm a try, really i did but it just never clicked with me. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From george Sun Aug 7 01:19:52 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:19:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050807051952.GE31731@sta.duo> On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 10:04:55PM -0700, pete wright wrote: > >yea i totally agree, when i have one off shell jobs, or know i'm going >to be able to complete a task in one sitting xterm is the way to go >(although "-fg green" gman youre killing me ;p). yet when i have >sessions open for long peroids of time, for me a tabbed shell is a >must as is a tabbed web browser. i gave aterm a try, really i did but >it just never clicked with me. screen is good... and xterm always comes with X, though it may take a lot of options and config files to make it work to suit. Me been following this thread, and given some thought about why I use what I use (sawfish). It's about getting the job done. When I last did serious WM shopping, I wanted to use blackbox, but at the time it didn't have bbkeys by default. I need something I could install quickly and drop my configuration into quickly on new hosts. I've not made significant changes in the past couple years. I looked at some WM posted here and they all look like they fill a niche, would even like to try one or two, but my setup really has no complaints from me, so it may be a while... // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From scottro Sun Aug 7 01:21:55 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:21:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 10:04:55PM -0700, pete wright wrote: > On 8/6/05, George R. wrote: > > Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > > > >> I suspect that much of this discussion about WM's and terminals > > >> resembles a discussion I saw long ago on google about mutt and > > >> pine--someone posted, "People tend to give all sorts of technical > > >> reasons to support what is, in the end, an emotional decision." :) > > > > > > > > > Not entirely.. something like how much memory a program uses is not an > > > emotional decision specially if you have a range of machines you plan to > > > install including old machines with less memory. > > > > I agree with you Francisco, and we're also talking about what we're > > running on a desktop as a primary workstation/laptop. Even on a PIII 500 with 256 megs of RAM, I think that the difference between flux and xfce performance isn't going to be drastic. KDE is another story of course. :) (I use flux on such a machine and it's fine, haven't tried xfce on it.) That's the oldest machine I use. I think if I were on a really really old one, I'd use weewm, with which I've played in the past. I was able to do most of what I do with flux, I think the only thing I lacked was the ability to open the root menu with keystrokes. So, perhaps having been spoiled by not having to use an ancient machine in awhile, I forgot that point, especially if we're bring KDE into the mix. > > What I don't understand is the aterm/eterm/rxvt discussion. > > > > I need something readable and clear, so I've never gone past > > xterm -bg black -fg green > > for any extended period of time. > > > > Transparency, lack of scroll bars, etc, is just to way overcomplicated > > when I just want a clean xterm. As Francisco said in an earlier post, aterm uses fewer resources. Transparency is eye candy, fun for an hour then it pales. Also, as my eyes age, I find it harder to read. I use a borderless aterm, grey background black foreground. I feel the borderless aspect and the lack of a scrollbar subjectively at least, give me a bit more space on the desktop, so those are a bit important for me. Pete mentions below (sorry I'm snipping it Pete, but I'm lazy) how he likes tabs in terminals. I prefer separate terminals, simply a matter of taste, and that's another thing that aterm gives me. With its fading option, the terminal that has focus is brighter than the others, so I know where I am. This, of course, is personal taste--many people prefer tabs. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Wesley: The Council's orders are to concentrate on the... Buffy: Orders. I don't think I'm going to be taking any more orders. Not from you, not from them. Wesley: You can't turn your back on the Council. Buffy: They're in England. I don't think they can tell which way my back is facing. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9Zpz+lTVdes0Z9YRAvtlAKDF59ZkQhBtcT4McpUwf7M9Z3y3dQCgr1RA vpx2zCc+D3VM7lq2+mR2vPw= =RvNB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists Sun Aug 7 01:35:56 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050807013428.E42203@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > (although "-fg green" gman youre killing me ;p). yet when i have > sessions open for long peroids of time, for me a tabbed shell is a > must as is a tabbed web browser. i gave aterm a try, really i did but > it just never clicked with me. What shell has this tabbed feature? I can see how on some ocassions it may be usefull, but I think that would NOT work for me.. usually I am comparing things between the windows.. :-) From lists Sun Aug 7 01:41:35 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050807014028.N42203@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > that's another thing that aterm gives me. With its fading option, the > terminal that has focus is brighter than the others, so I know where I > am. This, of course, is personal taste--many people prefer tabs. I didn't even know about this fading option. :-) And I am with you on different windows.. although I am curious which program has tabs to see how that would work.. but I can't imagine that working for me. From lists Sun Aug 7 01:43:32 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <20050807014225.C42203@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Okan Demirmen wrote: > which shows up like this in my logs: > Aug 6 22:38:44 hydrogen sshd[23929]: Authentication refused: bad > ownership or modes for directory /home/okan/.ssh This is from 5.3 Release installation. Possible that log change was done afterwards. From lists Sun Aug 7 01:45:05 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > right, we must remember to look in /var/log/auth.log In my case I checked both /var/log/messages and /var/log/auth.log I think it's probably because 5.3 Release had an older version of openssh that perhaps didnt' have that loggin capabilities yet. From scottro Sun Aug 7 02:04:42 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 02:04:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807014028.N42203@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> <20050807014028.N42203@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807060442.GA50867@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:41:35AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >that's another thing that aterm gives me. With its fading option, the > >terminal that has focus is brighter than the others, so I know where I > >am. This, of course, is personal taste--many people prefer tabs. > > I didn't even know about this fading option. :-) I often have six or seven aterms open, I'd be lost without fading. In .Xdefaults aterm*fading:80 works for me. (The lower the number, the darker the unused terminals. > And I am with you on different windows.. although I am curious which program > has tabs to see how that would work.. but I can't imagine that working for me. > There's mrxvt for one. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: See, this is a school. And we have students and they check out books and then they learn things. Giles: I was beginning to suspect that was a myth. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9aR6+lTVdes0Z9YRAkc+AJ4/TYVvk3kikbaorTep7ae9wlxBzQCgjKbK hzsBe7b1hJNfKydH9qAC9YE= =DOoG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitzer Sun Aug 7 02:10:32 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 02:10:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> References: <20050803190308.GC30900@syntax.cyth.net> <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508062310f072d41@mail.gmail.com> On 8/6/05, George R. wrote: > > But (when) we start doing regular online polls, I'd bet half the list > uses fluxbox, and the other half xfce(4). Except Hans, of course. I use icewm, but everyone knows I am odd. marc From scottro Sun Aug 7 02:17:29 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 02:17:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt Message-ID: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 And now, for something completely different.... I was wondering how many people make use of mutt with gmail. Today, inspired by some posts on bsdforums (by a member of this list, actually), I looked into it. Setting up retrieval was trivial. Setting up sending mail was not. I use ssmtp on most of my boxes, and postfix on my main one, as I also use that one as a mail server. I didn't see how to set ssmtp to go to two separate accounts, and when experiment, allowing the ssl authentication that gmail smtp requires, I wasn't able to configure the username and password. I googled a bit about postfix--apparently, setting up more than one relay host is not simple, nor is configuring ssl. (As I gave up after reading the docs about using ssl, I didn't google deeply for having multiple relay hosts--it may not be doable, though I tend to doubt that.) I then tried esmtp. This required me to create an ssl cert. After several false starts I would get the error that I had to start ttssl though from what I could see of the docs, it was started. So, last but not least, I went to msmtp. This one worked, and the man page had a nice little thing about key macros to switch between accounts if you had multiple accounts in the config file. It did seem (subjective) a bit slower than ssmtp so if I were going to use gmail regularly, which I might start doing as a throwaway account, I would probably keep ssmtp and just make a separate user with his own muttrc for gmail. I could probably do some sort of send-hook to set the sendmail for the gmail account to use msmtp, but I'll save that for another day. So, I was just wondering, does anyone use mutt regularly with a gmail account, and how did you set up the smtp server? Thanks - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide until it goes away -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9ad5+lTVdes0Z9YRArbwAJwPm6hUgzmAWrNQ+NIq5euZrPV7DgCdEmJ5 AA2oI92jC54DCL0Hj1PL9GI= =CHp/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlavigne6 Sun Aug 7 10:11:11 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] blog on OSCON Message-ID: <20050807101040.K571@dru.domain.org> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7531 http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7532 http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7534 Dru From lists Sun Aug 7 10:57:13 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807060442.GA50867@mail.scottro.net> References: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> <20050807014028.N42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807060442.GA50867@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050807105410.L48843@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > .Xdefaults > aterm*fading:80 > works for me. (The lower the number, the darker the unused terminals. 80 was way too dark for me.. Going to try 95. :-) Although I think I will probably have it off.. I find that the active bar gets blue while the back ones have a grey bar. That has been enough for. Will try the fading for a few days anyway just to check it out. From lists Sun Aug 7 11:04:50 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > So, I was just wondering, does anyone use mutt regularly with a gmail > account, and how did you set up the smtp server? Don't use Gmail or MUTT, but couldn't you use your ISP's SMTP server? I have always used my ISP's SMTP server regardless of what mail I use.. or even use your own postfix. Although I am probably missing something when I see >I didn't see how to set ssmtp to go to >two separate accounts, and when experiment, allowing the ssl >authentication that gmail smtp requires, I wasn't able to configure the >username and password. For those of us who don't use Gmail.. why can't you send mail out through your own SMTP and show it as coming from your Gmail account? From nomadlogic Sun Aug 7 11:43:08 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:43:08 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807013428.E42203@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807013428.E42203@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <57d7100005080708434dd1a3b7@mail.gmail.com> On 8/6/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > > > (although "-fg green" gman youre killing me ;p). yet when i have > > sessions open for long peroids of time, for me a tabbed shell is a > > must as is a tabbed web browser. i gave aterm a try, really i did but > > it just never clicked with me. > > What shell has this tabbed feature? > I can see how on some ocassions it may be usefull, but I think that would > NOT work for me.. usually I am comparing things between the windows.. :-) > pretty much all the "heavy weight" terminal emulators (konsole, gnome-terminal, multi-gnome-terminal i think aterm even supports tab's). -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From okan Sun Aug 7 11:54:55 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:54:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> On Sun 2005.08.07 at 01:45 -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > > >right, we must remember to look in /var/log/auth.log > > In my case I checked both /var/log/messages and /var/log/auth.log > I think it's probably because 5.3 Release had an older version of openssh > that perhaps didnt' have that loggin capabilities yet. this has been there a long time - charles even showed you so in freebsd 4.11. check your syslog config - this log should come out of the "info" level. cheers, okan From lists Sun Aug 7 12:37:30 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 12:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> Message-ID: <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, William G. Bendick wrote: > If youre looking for a real minimal WM checkout evilwm. > http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/ Just installed from port. Do you have a modified "startx" you could share.. or whatever you use to start it.. I have been spoiled by startxfce so have never had to worry about how to start the WM. From scottro Sun Aug 7 13:18:56 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:18:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807105410.L48843@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807052155.GA50607@mail.scottro.net> <20050807014028.N42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807060442.GA50867@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105410.L48843@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807171856.GA23057@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 10:57:13AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >.Xdefaults > >aterm*fading:80 > >works for me. (The lower the number, the darker the unused terminals. > > 80 was way too dark for me.. Going to try 95. :-) > Although I think I will probably have it off.. I find that the active bar gets blue while the back > ones have a grey bar. That has been enough for. Will try the fading for a few days anyway just to > check it out. Ah, I have borderless, because as mentioned before, it makes me feel as I have more space. :) If I didn't have borderless, I probably wouldn't use the fade feature. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Okay, that was too close for comfort. Not that slaying is ever comfy, but... you know what I mean. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9kKA+lTVdes0Z9YRAsVDAKC119OEjxQfIhmeDoa3LoMS4Trl/wCgsiDT T6fsUeTGoU26po0Eru0eXwM= =YIG9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Sun Aug 7 13:20:15 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:20:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <57d7100005080708434dd1a3b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d71000050805113327fb1c21@mail.gmail.com> <42F3B80B.5050009@penguinnetwerx.net> <20050805194735.GC1906@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050806114410.B37133@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806173204.GA44752@mail.scottro.net> <20050806221154.T41024@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F57828.9030401@sddi.net> <57d7100005080622042654d031@mail.gmail.com> <20050807013428.E42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005080708434dd1a3b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050807172015.GB23057@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 08:43:08AM -0700, pete wright wrote: > On 8/6/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > > > > > (although "-fg green" gman youre killing me ;p). yet when i have > > > sessions open for long peroids of time, for me a tabbed shell is a > > > must as is a tabbed web browser. i gave aterm a try, really i did but > > > it just never clicked with me. > > > > What shell has this tabbed feature? > > I can see how on some ocassions it may be usefull, but I think that would > > NOT work for me.. usually I am comparing things between the windows.. :-) > > > pretty much all the "heavy weight" terminal emulators (konsole, > gnome-terminal, multi-gnome-terminal i think aterm even supports > tab's). Yes, after your post, I checked--there is a multi-aterm. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 (After finding Spike outside her house.) Buffy: What are you doing here, Spike? Five words or less! Spike: (counting on fingers) Out... for... a... walk... bitch. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9kLP+lTVdes0Z9YRAiUZAKCscxUrpjA0FOOnqL/vfdNYI/VTdwCfaNOi sgZtbYEbAPxbXu2eF/iio4w= =JR/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Sun Aug 7 13:21:48 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:21:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 12:37:30PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Wed, 3 Aug 2005, William G. Bendick wrote: > > >If youre looking for a real minimal WM checkout evilwm. > >http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/ > > Just installed from port. > Do you have a modified "startx" you could share.. or whatever you use to start it.. I have been > spoiled by startxfce so have never had to worry about how to start the WM. Wouldn't it just be exec evilwm as the last line of .xinitc (From a window manager slut) :) - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Ford: I wanna be like you...A vampire. Spike: I've known you for two minutes and I can't stand you. I don't really feature you living forever. Can I eat him now love? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9kMs+lTVdes0Z9YRAvFoAJ4zUS0ee61LZRF5FIKT65aR0dps8gCeOeh5 OMjcduQUOIo+dHwe7/d8Thc= =Uj+d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Sun Aug 7 13:24:50 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:24:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050807172450.GD23057@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 11:04:50AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >So, I was just wondering, does anyone use mutt regularly with a gmail > >account, and how did you set up the smtp server? > > > Although I am probably missing something when I see > > > >I didn't see how to set ssmtp to go to > >two separate accounts, and when experiment, allowing the ssl > >authentication that gmail smtp requires, I wasn't able to configure the > >username and password. > > For those of us who don't use Gmail.. why can't you send mail out through your own SMTP and show it > as coming from your Gmail account? I assume that you could, though I don't know if it would cause trouble with some lists that check headers carefully. In this case, it was more the challenge of getting it to work. :) I may briefly join the list with a gmail account and see what happens. I don't really use it either, but have it (hrrm, it might have been George G who gave me my invite) and as I said, I got interested in getting it to work after another nycbugger ---no, we HAVE to get a different term for that--err nycbugist? ---well, anyway, after another fellow on the list had mentioned his gmail account on bsdforums. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Are you crazy? You just don't sneak up on people in a graveyard. You make noise when you walk, you stomp, or... yodel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9kPi+lTVdes0Z9YRAjvFAJ4z+l/0U2EDx/eXk1qmuZvxXfh/RgCcD+OD tKhg/2OD4gpI+Faz5xD5yEg= =peW9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlavigne6 Sun Aug 7 13:25:40 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] pulling another PHK Message-ID: <20050807132518.D571@dru.domain.org> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7537 Dru From nycbug Sun Aug 7 13:51:15 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 13:51:15 -0400 Subject: nycbuggers (was: Re: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt) In-Reply-To: <20050807172450.GD23057@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172450.GD23057@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050807175115.GA14331@syntax.cyth.net> On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:24:50PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > George G who gave me my invite) and as I said, I got interested in > getting it to work after another nycbugger ---no, we HAVE to get a > different term for that--err nycbugist? ---well, anyway, after another nycbugger sounds funny. I say we keep it. Technically, New York City BSD User Group individuals should just be called New York City BSD User, no? ...but do you really prefer nycbu to nycbugger? I didn't think so. -Ray- From jvanasco Sun Aug 7 14:19:38 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 14:19:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> On Aug 7, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > For those of us who don't use Gmail.. why can't you send mail out > through your own SMTP and show it as coming from your Gmail account? You can easily do that -- but you run the risk of getting marked as spam (or worse, you could easily get bounced rejected or devnulled) by an MTA that sees your message as a forgery. From okan Sun Aug 7 15:16:54 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 15:16:54 -0400 Subject: nycbuggers (was: Re: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt) In-Reply-To: <20050807175115.GA14331@syntax.cyth.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172450.GD23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807175115.GA14331@syntax.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20050807191654.GB79075@yinaska.pair.com> On Sun 2005.08.07 at 13:51 -0400, Ray Lai wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:24:50PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > George G who gave me my invite) and as I said, I got interested in > > getting it to work after another nycbugger ---no, we HAVE to get a > > different term for that--err nycbugist? ---well, anyway, after another > > nycbugger sounds funny. I say we keep it. yes, keep it ;) From scottro Sun Aug 7 17:26:28 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:26:28 -0400 Subject: nycbuggers (was: Re: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt) In-Reply-To: <20050807191654.GB79075@yinaska.pair.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172450.GD23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807175115.GA14331@syntax.cyth.net> <20050807191654.GB79075@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <20050807212628.GB25827@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 03:16:54PM -0400, Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Sun 2005.08.07 at 13:51 -0400, Ray Lai wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 01:24:50PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > George G who gave me my invite) and as I said, I got interested in > > > getting it to work after another nycbugger ---no, we HAVE to get a > > > different term for that--err nycbugist? ---well, anyway, after another > > > > nycbugger sounds funny. I say we keep it. > > yes, keep it ;) Sigh, is this going to be my main claim to fame on this list? Hrrm, Ok, I'll have to see what to add to my sig about it. - -- Scott Robbins (Creator of the phrase, "nycbugger") PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9nyE+lTVdes0Z9YRArRKAJkBvflotuDLR/klOJ9Q4vfAyedjNwCffHK9 R8XwyyxrRVI0mm8xcFpUiN8= =O5nE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlavigne6 Sun Aug 7 20:12:38 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] more Beastie pics Message-ID: <20050807201219.K571@dru.domain.org> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7540 Dru From runfreebsd Sun Aug 7 20:42:58 2005 From: runfreebsd (Bill Schoolcraft) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] AIM or GAIM in 5,4 "amd64" ? Message-ID: <20050808004258.34627.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Family, I'm trying to get either GAIM or AIM to work on my 5.4 "amd64" to no avail. It works on my 5.4 "i386" and I was wondering if anyone can help, here is my "ports" failure message for GAIM. AIM reports only being ported to i386. ##################### [root at liam /usr/ports/net/gaim]-> make install clean ===> gaim-1.2.1 has known vulnerabilities: => gaim -- Yahoo! remote crash vulnerability. Reference: => gaim -- MSN Remote DoS vulnerability. Reference: => gaim -- MSN remote DoS vulnerability. Reference: => gaim -- remote crash on some protocols. Reference: => Please update your ports tree and try again. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/net/gaim. ##################### Thanks in advance. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From lists Sun Aug 7 21:28:38 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > Wouldn't it just be > exec evilwm > as the last line of .xinitc Didn't help. xclock -g 50x50-0+0 -bw 0 & exec evilwm See the clock and nothing else From lists Sun Aug 7 21:31:42 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Okan Demirmen wrote: > this has been there a long time - charles even showed you so in freebsd > 4.11. check your syslog config - this log should come out of the "info" > level. I think the machine in question didn't have sshd using syslog. Also how do you setup the "info" level? My sshd entry in syslog.conf is !sshd *.* /var/log/sshd.log From scottro Sun Aug 7 21:57:16 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:57:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050808015716.GB1452@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:28:38PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >Wouldn't it just be > >exec evilwm > >as the last line of .xinitc > > Didn't help. > xclock -g 50x50-0+0 -bw 0 & > exec evilwm > > > See the clock and nothing else Sigh, you're always looking at the darkside. At least you know what time it is. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: So, something ripped him open and ate out his insides. Willow: Like an Oreo cookie. Well, except for, you know, without the chocolatey cookie goodness. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9rv8+lTVdes0Z9YRAt8VAKDHbrFab4vFvKuLBHxLldFk82/uSQCfbE9v vGhMLOvhtHKHSy5IjNZ7744= =H/jd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Sun Aug 7 22:05:31 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:05:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:28:38PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >Wouldn't it just be > >exec evilwm > >as the last line of .xinitc > > Didn't help. > xclock -g 50x50-0+0 -bw 0 & > exec evilwm > > > See the clock and nothing else Heh, have you perhaps gotten lazy about reading docs? You can even set a background for it. For example, I just installed it on an ArchLinux distro I have for things like this--Arch uses binary packages so it's always quick. In my .xinitrc fbsetbg -t image #this is just a bit of eyecandy exec evilwm -term aterm Then, to open a terminal ctrl+alt+ return To move it around, the same commands as vi (with ctl+alt) l for right, h for left j for down k for up. A few other things as well. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Willow: Nervous? Xander: No way. I'm full of that good old kamikazee spirit. Giles: Xander, just because this is never going to work, there's no need to be negative. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9r3r+lTVdes0Z9YRAtVxAJ9zRoFTb3rIyPBjbLY74CQmyRn0vwCdEdIf ahWCSlocdM3RStmmxpCIhs0= =xVzZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Sun Aug 7 22:18:42 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:18:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050808021842.GD1452@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 10:05:31PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:28:38PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > > In my .xinitrc > > fbsetbg -t image #this is just a bit of eyecandy > exec evilwm -term aterm > > Then, to open a terminal ctrl+alt+ return > > To move it around, the same commands as vi (with ctl+alt) l for right, h > for left j for down k for up. A few other things as well. As I prefer mod4, the Windows key for things like this, I found that I can change that too. Now, the .xinitrc reads exec evilwm -bw 0 -term aterm -mask1 mod4 (Case is important and must follow their man page.) This gives me an aterm if I hit the windows key and return, enables me to move the window around with mod4 and vi keystrokes, and gives me a borderless aterm. Now, I'm trying to see if one can also bind keystrokes to open applications. If I can, I might even switch. > - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Do we really need weapons for this? Spike: I just like them. They make me feel all manly. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9sEC+lTVdes0Z9YRAgWuAKCPDneaLQwoGFSfOSql+nPW9T/HnwCgmMpz JI0AkIJBd3WF9rzAxVkZ9zg= =roWB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From okan Sun Aug 7 22:25:00 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:25:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050808022500.GA84002@yinaska.pair.com> On Sun 2005.08.07 at 21:31 -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Okan Demirmen wrote: > > >this has been there a long time - charles even showed you so in freebsd > >4.11. check your syslog config - this log should come out of the "info" > >level. > > > I think the machine in question didn't have sshd using syslog. > Also how do you setup the "info" level? > > My sshd entry in syslog.conf is > !sshd > *.* /var/log/sshd.log "*" includes info, in fact it is all. reference syslog.conf(5) to see how facilities and levels are specified - i.e. facility.level in any case, as with any syslog'd logfile, make sure the files exists before syslogd(8) starts, or create it then SIGHUP syslogd(8). there may be a few other things with your syslog.conf(5) - for example if you have a statement after this negating *.*, for if there are multiple matches, the last one wins. for kicks, toss in some tests and play with logger(1) - hopefully the issue will reveal itself. okan From george Sun Aug 7 22:25:48 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:25:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Okan Demirmen wrote: > >> this has been there a long time - charles even showed you so in freebsd >> 4.11. check your syslog config - this log should come out of the "info" >> level. > > > > I think the machine in question didn't have sshd using syslog. > Also how do you setup the "info" level? > > My sshd entry in syslog.conf is > !sshd > *.* /var/log/sshd.log /etc/ssh/sshd_config under logging. LogLevel INFO g From mspitzer Sun Aug 7 23:23:04 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:23:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305080720233b3beac9@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/05, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > On Aug 7, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > For those of us who don't use Gmail.. why can't you send mail out > > through your own SMTP and show it as coming from your Gmail account? > > You can easily do that -- but you run the risk of getting marked as > spam (or worse, you could easily get bounced rejected or devnulled) > by an MTA that sees your message as a forgery. One other thing to keep in mind with mutt there is no client side smtp so you can not connect to gmails ssmtp server to deliver your mail. It is a feature and documented in their faq. marc > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From scottro Sun Aug 7 23:42:03 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 23:42:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305080720233b3beac9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> <8c50a3c305080720233b3beac9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050808034203.GA2315@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 11:23:04PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/7/05, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > > > > On Aug 7, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > > > For those of us who don't use Gmail.. why can't you send mail out > > > through your own SMTP and show it as coming from your Gmail account? > > > > You can easily do that -- but you run the risk of getting marked as > > spam (or worse, you could easily get bounced rejected or devnulled) > > by an MTA that sees your message as a forgery. > > One other thing to keep in mind with mutt there is no client side smtp > so you can not connect to gmails ssmtp server to deliver your mail. > It is a feature and documented in their faq. Hrrm, I'm confused here--you mean there's no builtin mutt smtp? As I said in my original post, I simply used msmtp, and added a few things to my .muttngrc, a send2-hook so that if I send from my gmail account (from my local machine, not using their web) it goes out through their server. I suspect I'm misunderstanding something you said here though. At any rate (SHAMELESS PLUG) after spending so much time setting it up--the actual setup, once I figured it out is very quick, it was finding an smtp agent that worked easily) I put up a quick web page about it. http://www.qnd-guides.org/qnd-gmail.html TOTAL CHANGE OF SUBJECT By the way, Francisco, if you see this email, I blame you--you got me back into playing with various window managers now. :) You might like (again, it really depends upon your needs) weewm. It's another lightweight WM. What it has for me, that evilwm doesn't, is the ability to make a window move the number of pixels that you wish (evilwm seems set at 16, I can't figure out how to change that) and to run various apps with keybindings--AFAICT, evilwm just allows an xterm to open with a keybinding. The weewm allows me to bind commands, so I can open up any application I choose, such as a web browser, with keystrokes. However, on the machines I'm using, slowest one a lowend MB 700MH AMD with 512 megs of DDR, neither of the two mentioned here (evilwm and weewm) give me a feeling of being faster than fluxbox. Flux does have my little stupid eye candy, transparent menus. Also, it allows me to open a rootmenu, and I don't think the other two do. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Angel: It's complicated how this all happened, Buffy, you know. It's kind of a long story. Buffy: Your new sidekick had a vision, I was in it, you came to Sunnydale? Angel: Okay, maybe not that long. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9tSL+lTVdes0Z9YRAtMUAJ0W1u8d71hSHP75YYsbQv7qCduyHQCgphr5 BBedvekg2Wd25wrw5Hg4Hsg= =Q65A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitzer Mon Aug 8 00:40:24 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 00:40:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050808034203.GA2315@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> <8c50a3c305080720233b3beac9@mail.gmail.com> <20050808034203.GA2315@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305080721402ff1bf37@mail.gmail.com> On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hrrm, I'm confused here--you mean there's no builtin mutt smtp? As I > said in my original post, I simply used msmtp, and added a few things to > my .muttngrc, a send2-hook so that if I send from my gmail account (from > my local machine, not using their web) it goes out through their server. > > I suspect I'm misunderstanding something you said here though. from: http://wiki.mutt.org/index.cgi?MuttFaq/Sendmail How do I configure Mutt to use a remote SMTP server to send mail? Mutt can't do so directly (read the MailConcept to understand why this won't change). You must specify a local MTA to do it. The MTA must have a sendmail compatible interface to be used with $sendmail. See LightSMTPagents for which to use, configure, install. marc From scottro Mon Aug 8 00:53:50 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 00:53:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305080721402ff1bf37@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050807105758.C48843@zoraida.natserv.net> <1AB5B6AA-4699-4CBC-84B7-F3A55B129CCD@mastersofbranding.com> <8c50a3c305080720233b3beac9@mail.gmail.com> <20050808034203.GA2315@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305080721402ff1bf37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050808045350.GA3293@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 12:40:24AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hrrm, I'm confused here--you mean there's no builtin mutt smtp? As I > > said in my original post, I simply used msmtp, and added a few things to > > my .muttngrc, a send2-hook so that if I send from my gmail account (from > > my local machine, not using their web) it goes out through their server. > > > > I suspect I'm misunderstanding something you said here though. > > from: http://wiki.mutt.org/index.cgi?MuttFaq/Sendmail > > How do I configure Mutt to use a remote SMTP server to send mail? Ah, ok. You ~did~ mean there's no built in mutt smtp. Now it makes sense. Thanks for the clarification, my bad. :) - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Ahh, it's okay. Gave Cord and I chance to spend some quality death time. Cordelia: And we got these free corsages. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9uVe+lTVdes0Z9YRAhTIAJwMZZQHPmnK9A7erFLtqR8sWMFMggCdHhoi Y6y+Dmhow9hTHuyC/B65p2w= =5f1Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From driodeiros Mon Aug 8 03:29:55 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 00:29:55 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050808072955.GA577@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 02:17:29AM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > So, I was just wondering, does anyone use mutt regularly with a gmail > account, and how did you set up the smtp server? I use mutt + msmtp. It very powerful and flexible. My msmtprc file looks like: defaults logfile ~/.msmtp.log account gmail host smtp.gmail.com port 587 from driodeiros at gmail.com user myuser password mypassword auth on tls on account default : gmail And then I tell mutt to use msmtp for sending the email: set sendmail="/opt/local/bin/msmtp" You can easily use different accounts and use then as you need. Check the msmtp site for more info. By the way, I still have a very annoying problem with gmail that I couldn't manage to fix yet. I cannot see the emails that I sent to the mailing list. I mean, gmail servers remove the emails coming from the mailing list with me in from. It is very annoying. Anyone know how to fix that? David From scottro Mon Aug 8 06:41:38 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 06:41:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050808072955.GA577@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808072955.GA577@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Message-ID: <20050808104138.GA9503@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 12:29:55AM -0700, David Rio Deiros wrote: > On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 02:17:29AM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > So, I was just wondering, does anyone use mutt regularly with a gmail > > account, and how did you set up the smtp server? > > I use mutt + msmtp. It very powerful and flexible. > > My msmtprc file looks like: > > defaults > logfile ~/.msmtp.log > > account gmail > host smtp.gmail.com > port 587 > from driodeiros at gmail.com > user myuser > password mypassword > auth on > tls on > > account default : gmail Yes, that's almost exactly what I wound up using. Thank you. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Colonel: Every inch of this installation is under constant, 24-hour surveillance. Willow: Including the secret lab? Colonel: Everything! (pause) What secret lab? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC9zbi+lTVdes0Z9YRAiL2AJ0a4jtkd9ETASLEuYyV066Mk7AJ7gCeKkLl UmOaC6rcYqLoeHlxg/3FRis= =3E2J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jpb Mon Aug 8 09:00:23 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:00:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] AIM or GAIM in 5,4 "amd64" ? In-Reply-To: <20050808004258.34627.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050808004258.34627.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050808130023.GA51105@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Bill Schoolcraft [2005-08-07 20:43]: > Hello Family, > > => gaim -- remote crash on some protocols. > Reference: > > => Please update your ports tree and try again. That's the key line. See here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports.html for more details. Best Regards, Jim B. From scottro11 Mon Aug 8 09:11:05 2005 From: scottro11 (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:11:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Test of the gmail stuff Message-ID: <20050808131105.GA42163@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David's post got me curious, so I've briefly joined the list with a gmail account. :) David (and anyone else who cares) I'll let you know if I see this post that I'm sending. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: So, something ripped him open and ate out his insides. Willow: Like an Oreo cookie. Well, except for, you know, without the chocolatey cookie goodness. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC91np+lTVdes0Z9YRAn4xAJwMWtddjqZU+cMuyR0VcXveq+NvtQCfbU5l etqi58Z1yhB1awMDI7iD8OE= =+iCV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hzs202 Mon Aug 8 10:14:01 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:14:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > I was wondering how many people make use of mutt with gmail. Today, > inspired by some posts on bsdforums (by a member of this list, > actually), I looked into it. scottro, I just got this email... I am using mutt + procmail + fetchmail and msmtp... did you already get the answers you were looking for. Best, -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Where danger is, grows the saving power also" (qtd. in Heidegger 28). From scottro Mon Aug 8 10:23:20 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:23:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 10:14:01AM -0400, Hakim Singhji wrote: > On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > I was wondering how many people make use of mutt with gmail. Today, > > inspired by some posts on bsdforums (by a member of this list, > > actually), I looked into it. > > scottro, > > I just got this email... I am using mutt + procmail + fetchmail and > msmtp... did you already get the answers you were looking for. Yes, I got it all together. Like David, however I do find that if I send to this list using the gmail account, I didn't see my post. However, otherwise, I can use the gmail account as I do any other, and may keep using it as my throwaway account. BTW, thanks for your posts on forums which got me interested in getting it working. :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Angel: It was a bright afternoon out in front of your school. You walked down the steps. And I loved you. Buffy: Why? Angel: 'Cause I could see your heart. You held it before you for everyone to see. And I worried that it would be bruised or torn. And more than anything in my life I wanted to keep it safe, to warm it with my own. Buffy: That's beautiful. Or taken literally, incredibly gross. Angel: I was just thinking that, too. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC92rY+lTVdes0Z9YRAt+4AJ0YdT1wzN93RPU9UdM+/N7B/SphcwCfQrkv +4EoQEP82dKTpJb9dlfaEs4= =scjO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hzs202 Mon Aug 8 14:52:34 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:52:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > Yes, I got it all together. Like David, however I do find that if I > send to this list using the gmail account, I didn't see my post. Yes, I have the same situation, which is why I have the list's send/reply to hzs202 at nyu.edu (remember, we discussed this in bsdforums). Then I have mx3.nyu.edu forward to my gmail account. I thought that this would do the trick, but alas.. it did not. If you figure out a workaround besides copying the original sent post to another mailbox... let me know. > BTW, thanks for your posts on forums which got me interested in getting > it working. :) Don't mention it... Best, -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Where danger is, grows the saving power also" (qtd. in Heidegger 28). From scottro Mon Aug 8 15:20:03 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:20:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 02:52:34PM -0400, Hakim Singhji wrote: > On 8/7/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > Yes, I have the same situation, which is why I have the list's > send/reply to hzs202 at nyu.edu (remember, we discussed this in > bsdforums). Then I have mx3.nyu.edu forward to my gmail account. I > thought that this would do the trick, but alas.. it did not. > > If you figure out a workaround besides copying the original sent post > to another mailbox... let me know. I did a bit of googling on it today and found nothing. It's a pity actually, as a gmail account can be handy for mailing lists or anything else where your address might be public. For the moment I gave up. However, I'm considering wandering around their site and seeing if I can email them with a request to fix it. Are you on other mailing lists with this? Does the same thing happen with FreeBSD-questions? - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I'm sorry, it's just been a really weird day. Xander: Yeah, Buffy died and everything. Willow: Wow, harsh. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC97Bj+lTVdes0Z9YRAm3BAJ9NZ/uctppCROfs3aBKqQj3l+65EACfaI8r HTm3vAOOSltPEAryfuYcsT8= =3UW/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hzs202 Mon Aug 8 15:28:45 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:28:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: On 8/8/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > Are you on other mailing lists with this? Does the same thing happen > with FreeBSD-questions? Yes... I believe it is because Gmail's mail-service and functionality is centered around their *wacky* browser client. If that is true then it would take a lot of complaints to get something done about it. It may be hopeless. *I have compromised this convenience for storage! Best, -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Where danger is, grows the saving power also" (qtd. in Heidegger 28). From scottro Mon Aug 8 15:31:40 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:31:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More on gmail and mailing lists Message-ID: <20050808193140.GA61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is for Hakim, David and anyone else using gmail and wondering why they don't see the messages they post to the list. Ok, it's not a bug, it's a feature. :) I browsed around the gmail help center and found the following. Why am I not receiving my messages? Answer return to Help Center Mail you send or forward to a mailing list you subscribe to, or to an account that forwards messages to your Gmail account, will only appear in 'Sent Mail.' This is intended to help prevent clutter in your inbox. If a message isn't successfully delivered, you'll receive an error message in your inbox. I sent a feature request to them--I'll keep you guys posted of any answers. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Angel: I knew this was gonna happen. Buffy: What? What do you think is happening? Angel: You're 16 years old, I'm 241. Buffy: I've done the math. Angel: You don't know what you're doing. You don't know what you want. Buffy: Oh, no. I think I do. I want out of this conversation. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC97Mc+lTVdes0Z9YRAoa9AKCBGcK4URP+Dp2jwaD/rxEkgKBDBwCgjbUS FvKIqG35TFge0UaKEAaxdI0= =v/VO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Mon Aug 8 15:33:17 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:33:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050808193317.GB61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 03:28:45PM -0400, Hakim Singhji wrote: > On 8/8/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > > Are you on other mailing lists with this? Does the same thing happen > > with FreeBSD-questions? > Yes... I believe it is because Gmail's mail-service and functionality > is centered around their *wacky* browser client. > > If that is true then it would take a lot of complaints to get > something done about it. It may be hopeless. > > *I have compromised this convenience for storage! I just posted something that should arrive to the list before this response. Yes, you're quite right, it's considered a feature. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: You're like my fairy godmother, and Santa Claus, and Q all wrapped up into one. (they look at her) Q from Bond, not Star Trek. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC97N9+lTVdes0Z9YRAttSAKCtk1t57sMsRVqhzUcThSvyA+qYyQCfa14R F5K34DSPVAIeewh8BB2vvBc= =MpcN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From runfreebsd Tue Aug 9 01:32:10 2005 From: runfreebsd (Bill Schoolcraft) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 22:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] AIM or GAIM in 5,4 "amd64" ? In-Reply-To: <20050808130023.GA51105@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050809053210.35804.qmail@web52511.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Brown wrote: > * Bill Schoolcraft [2005-08-07 20:43]: > > Hello Family, > > > > => gaim -- remote crash on some protocols. > > Reference: > > > > > => Please update your ports tree and try again. > > That's the key line. > > See here: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports.html > > for more details. > > > Best Regards, > Jim B. Thanks Jim, Actually I did update all my ports via cvsup and then ran the attempt again with it being a newer version of GAIM and got the following error, II reran the attempt a few times and here is the last 10 lines or so.. ################################### make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/perl' Making all in tcl gmake[3]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/tcl' gmake[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. gmake[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/tcl' Making all in ssl gmake[3]: Entering directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/ssl' /bin/sh /usr/local/bin/libtool15 --silent --tag=CC --mode=link cc -O -pipe -I/usr/local/include/tk8.4 -I/usr/local/include/tcl8.4 -Wall -g3 -o ssl-gnutls.la -rpath /usr/X11R6/lib/gaim -module -avoid-version -L/usr/local/lib -lglib-2.0 -liconv ssl-gnutls.lo -lgnutls -lgcrypt -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -pthread libtool15: link: `/usr/local/lib/libgnutls.la' is not a valid libtool archive gmake[3]: *** [ssl-gnutls.la] Error 1 gmake[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/ssl' gmake[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 gmake[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins' gmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0' gmake: *** [all] Error 2 *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/ports/net/gaim. ################################### I appreciate your posting, I just got home and see a few more emails in my inbox regarding this problem. I appreciate the support. Bill __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html From driodeiros Tue Aug 9 03:22:24 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:22:24 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] gmail and mutt In-Reply-To: <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050807061729.GA51115@mail.scottro.net> <20050808142320.GB42923@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050808192003.GA61321@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050809072224.GA9103@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 03:20:03PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > Are you on other mailing lists with this? Does the same thing happen > with FreeBSD-questions? Yes, it happens with all the mailing lists. David From driodeiros Tue Aug 9 03:24:08 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 00:24:08 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More on gmail and mailing lists In-Reply-To: <20050808193140.GA61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050808193140.GA61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050809072408.GB9103@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 03:31:40PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > I sent a feature request to them--I'll keep you guys posted of any > answers. Thanks Scott. From nycbug Tue Aug 9 08:23:33 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:23:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20050809122333.GB11778@syntax.cyth.net> On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 01:56:46PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > Basically, Apple threw out the slicing conventions alltogether- and > simply focused on protecting various directory trees using > permissions, (and now acl's etc...), which we do on other BSD's in > the first place. Does it provide replacements for nosuid, noexec, and nodev mount flags? > With that, seeing as a modern filesystem, (Journaled HFS+ on OSX), > disk fragmentation is not an issue as it was in the past, so that > aspect of the reasons for partitioning is now moot. Agreed. However, fscking is still slower with one big disk. (At least on non-journaling filesystems.) Also, keep in mind that partitions where the data is changing a lot is more at risk to be corrupted than one that never does, so while you may trash your /tmp partition in a Frankenstein experiment, your /home partition may be safe. Unless you have them both together. > Secondarily, in the context of a widely mixed-use, mixed-context > computer, (a User Desktop/Workstation), the applications run are > quite varied in behavior, resource needs, etc... so problems like > this browser issue are not really problems- (you have the whole disk > to use, and lots of visual/graphical/ui indicators for how much file > space you have on deck...) Usually this can be solved by giving /home a huge partition. `export TMPDIR=~/tmp' and you might not even touch /tmp anymore. This still protects the only user of the system from preventing syslog from working just because they left bittorrent on. > So with that, there's also little risk, in many User/Desktop > contexts, of resource-based attacks which can't be solved by a user > easily- (deleting files when HD is too full...), so while I'll follow > rigid partitioning schemes on a server connected to the www, it > doesn't seem to be the same issue at all to me on my Laptop. While I agree that partitions are much more important on a server than on a laptop, I still give / 100MB, /tmp MFS, /var 100MB, /usr/{,src,obj,ports,local} a gig or two or three each, and /home the rest. I can't wait until I have enough RAM to mount /usr/obj MFS. =) > -- > What does everyone else think of this? Does anyone run another *BSD > as a desktop/laptop/workstation OS and simply live in one big / > partition? Only on systems where I know I will wipe really really soon. (Of course, I wind up keeping them longer than usually, but eh....) > UFS has fairly sophisticated schemes for suppressing disk > fragmentation, (actually, BSD OS really nailed this issue in the > filesystem years ago), so what does everyone think? I thought it was more like decades ago. > Run wild withone big / (!?!?) I've just gotten so used to putting in the scheme I stated above that I don't really think about my partitioning anymore. I just enjoy the extra mount flags OpenBSD provides after installation. -Ray- From mspitzer Tue Aug 9 13:10:29 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:10:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] AIM or GAIM in 5,4 "amd64" ? In-Reply-To: <20050809053210.35804.qmail@web52511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050808130023.GA51105@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <20050809053210.35804.qmail@web52511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305080910103778cfe1@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/05, Bill Schoolcraft wrote: [snip] > `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/ssl' > /bin/sh /usr/local/bin/libtool15 --silent --tag=CC --mode=link cc -O > -pipe -I/usr/local/include/tk8.4 -I/usr/local/include/tcl8.4 -Wall -g3 > -o ssl-gnutls.la -rpath /usr/X11R6/lib/gaim -module -avoid-version > -L/usr/local/lib -lglib-2.0 -liconv ssl-gnutls.lo -lgnutls -lgcrypt > -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib -pthread > libtool15: link: `/usr/local/lib/libgnutls.la' is not a valid libtool > archive > gmake[3]: *** [ssl-gnutls.la] Error 1 > gmake[3]: Leaving directory > `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins/ssl' > gmake[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 > gmake[2]: Leaving directory > `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0/plugins' > gmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 > gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/net/gaim/work/gaim-1.4.0' > gmake: *** [all] Error 2 > *** Error code 2 > > Stop in /usr/ports/net/gaim. if you are using freebsd ports run, dont walk, and install sysutils/portupgrade then do the following, as root: pkgdb -F portsdb -Uu pkg_version -v -l '<' # show all packages that need updating, information only portinstall -R gaim marc ps saw sysutils/port-maintenance, look interesting also. marc From lists Tue Aug 9 14:26:46 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > /etc/ssh/sshd_config under logging. > LogLevel INFO That must be the current default.. my home machine is set like that.. These machines I "inheritted" I noticed that they commented out on most (possibly all) the settings from sshd_conf.. so will have to go machine by machine and change.. Makes me nervous having to restart ssh though. :-( No remote connection to them other than ssh for now... Eventually want to see if can convince the owner to get IP KVMs. In particular was looking at the ATEN IP KVM http://www.aten-usa.com/?category_product&cat=577&PHPSESSID=e4698f23f4105d462dcc2f7840b1b846 http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=660032 Also was looking at http://www.kvms.com/16-port-kvm-over-ip-switch.asp From ike Tue Aug 9 14:29:51 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:29:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: <20050809122333.GB11778@syntax.cyth.net> References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> <20050809122333.GB11778@syntax.cyth.net> Message-ID: Hi Ray, Great discussion On Aug 9, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Ray Lai wrote: > On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 01:56:46PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Basically, Apple threw out the slicing conventions alltogether- and >> simply focused on protecting various directory trees using >> permissions, (and now acl's etc...), which we do on other BSD's in >> the first place. >> > > Does it provide replacements for nosuid, noexec, and nodev mount > flags? Yes- mount(8) is mount(8): http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi? query=mount&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=Darwin+7.0.1+PPC&format=html -or- http://tinyurl.com/avszr > > >> With that, seeing as a modern filesystem, (Journaled HFS+ on OSX), >> disk fragmentation is not an issue as it was in the past, so that >> aspect of the reasons for partitioning is now moot. >> > > Agreed. However, fscking is still slower with one big disk. Gah- true. > (At > least on non-journaling filesystems.) Right- I don't think about this much, since fscking is a rarity on OSX with the journaled filesystems. > Also, keep in mind that > partitions where the data is changing a lot is more at risk to be > corrupted than one that never does, so while you may trash your > /tmp partition in a Frankenstein experiment, your /home partition > may be safe. Unless you have them both together. Right. Thx for the thoughtful response here! Rocket- .ike From spork Tue Aug 9 14:52:41 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > >> /etc/ssh/sshd_config under logging. >> LogLevel INFO > > That must be the current default.. my home machine is set like that.. These > machines I "inheritted" I noticed that they commented out on most (possibly > all) the settings from sshd_conf.. so will have to go machine by machine and > change.. I'm not sure about that, I'm still suspecting a screwy syslog.conf. The FreeBSD sshd_config file generally has everything commented out, and it's assumed that the values there are the defaults. > Makes me nervous having to restart ssh though. :-( > No remote connection to them other than ssh for now... You can try this on something safe, but at some point I noticed that OpenSSH does not kill off/restart it's children when you HUP the parent process. Very handy for situations like this. Charles > Eventually want to see if can convince the owner to get IP KVMs. > In particular was looking at the ATEN IP KVM > > http://www.aten-usa.com/?category_product&cat=577&PHPSESSID=e4698f23f4105d462dcc2f7840b1b846 > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=660032 > > Also was looking at > http://www.kvms.com/16-port-kvm-over-ip-switch.asp > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From okan Tue Aug 9 15:00:35 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:00:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050809190035.GA27953@yinaska.pair.com> On Tue 2005.08.09 at 14:26 -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > > >/etc/ssh/sshd_config under logging. > >LogLevel INFO > > That must be the current default.. my home machine is set like that.. > These machines I "inheritted" I noticed that they commented out on most > (possibly all) the settings from sshd_conf.. so will have to go machine by > machine and change.. diff(1)'ing against /usr/src/etc is your friend. > Makes me nervous having to restart ssh though. :-( > No remote connection to them other than ssh for now... start another sshd on another port - use another sshd_config ...log in there and restart the sshd on tcp/22...or there are many other ways to get into a box to remote admin it ;) > Eventually want to see if can convince the owner to get IP KVMs. > In particular was looking at the ATEN IP KVM new topic, new thread please... i think there's been a long, long discussion on talk@ about this before...check the archives for more info > http://www.aten-usa.com/?category_product&cat=577&PHPSESSID=e4698f23f4105d462dcc2f7840b1b846 > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=660032 > > Also was looking at > http://www.kvms.com/16-port-kvm-over-ip-switch.asp From tux Tue Aug 9 15:07:24 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:07:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ShmooCon 2006 Message-ID: <42F8FEEC.7070805@penguinnetwerx.net> For those who didn't know, registration is now open. This year's dates are January 13-15, 2006, in Washington, D.C. Registration: http://www.shmoocon.org/registration.html -Kev From lists Tue Aug 9 15:25:19 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SSH not working for particular user In-Reply-To: References: <20050806195211.Y39557@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050806204339.K40683@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807030752.GB84143@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807045338.GC31731@sta.duo> <20050807014416.D42203@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807155455.GA48528@yinaska.pair.com> <20050807212928.Y53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <42F6C2AC.7010304@sddi.net> <20050809141205.L73846@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050809152435.T74262@zoraida.natserv.net> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: > You can try this on something safe, but at some point I noticed that OpenSSH > does not kill off/restart it's children when you HUP the parent process. > Very handy for situations like this. So I could make the change while connected.. and HUP won't kill my active connections.. Will give it a try. From mspitzer Tue Aug 9 16:15:32 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 16:15:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ShmooCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <42F8FEEC.7070805@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <42F8FEEC.7070805@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508091315cdc9eeb@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > For those who didn't know, registration is now open. > > This year's dates are January 13-15, 2006, in Washington, D.C. > > Registration: > http://www.shmoocon.org/registration.html just registered, thanks. > > > -Kev > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From steve.rieger Tue Aug 9 17:58:33 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 17:58:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] QLOGIC fiber card Message-ID: <050B66D6-11DD-4018-BF78-7D99724B2F2E@tbwachiat.com> hi all i put a qlogic 2340 card into one of my servers and when the system boots it comes up, and sees the san, can you guys give me pointers for how i would configure it to mount my san. thanx -- Steve Rieger AIM chozrim ICQ 53956607 Cell 646 335 8915 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From nomadlogic Tue Aug 9 18:04:44 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:04:44 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] QLOGIC fiber card In-Reply-To: <050B66D6-11DD-4018-BF78-7D99724B2F2E@tbwachiat.com> References: <050B66D6-11DD-4018-BF78-7D99724B2F2E@tbwachiat.com> Message-ID: <57d71000050809150473620b4e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > > hi all > > > i put a qlogic 2340 card into one of my servers and when the system > boots it comes up, and sees the san, can you guys give me pointers > for how i would configure it to mount my san. heh, well it really depends on what you back end is, what OS you are running etc, and if you connecting direct to a device in you SAN, going through a fiber switch etc ;) generally speaking, once you get all the intermediary and backend parts working you should be presented raw disk/tape devices to your server by the SAN, although w/o more info on what you are running it's all guess now. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050809/e28025ef/attachment.html From steve.rieger Tue Aug 9 18:11:12 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 18:11:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] QLOGIC fiber card In-Reply-To: <57d71000050809150473620b4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <050B66D6-11DD-4018-BF78-7D99724B2F2E@tbwachiat.com> <57d71000050809150473620b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > > On 8/9/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > hi all > > > i put a qlogic 2340 card into one of my servers and when the system > boots it comes up, and sees the san, can you guys give me pointers > for how i would configure it to mount my san. > > > heh, well it really depends on what you back end is, what OS you > are running etc, and if you connecting direct to a device in you > SAN, going through a fiber switch etc ;) > > generally speaking, once you get all the intermediary and backend > parts working you should be presented raw disk/tape devices to your > server by the SAN, although w/o more info on what you are running > it's all guess now. > > -pete > apple xsan x2 (3TB's each), g5's x3 as mdc's qlogic 5220 san switch, they all connect via the switch, now i just added my hp g4, running fbsd 5.4 which is also connnected to the san switch. This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050809/eb15ff5c/attachment.html From nomadlogic Tue Aug 9 18:29:44 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:29:44 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] QLOGIC fiber card In-Reply-To: References: <050B66D6-11DD-4018-BF78-7D99724B2F2E@tbwachiat.com> <57d71000050809150473620b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57d71000050809152924e2970@mail.gmail.com> On 8/9/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > > > > On 8/9/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > > > > hi all > > > > > > i put a qlogic 2340 card into one of my servers and when the system > > boots it comes up, and sees the san, can you guys give me pointers > > for how i would configure it to mount my san. > > > > heh, well it really depends on what you back end is, what OS you are > running etc, and if you connecting direct to a device in you SAN, going > through a fiber switch etc ;) > > generally speaking, once you get all the intermediary and backend parts > working you should be presented raw disk/tape devices to your server by the > SAN, although w/o more info on what you are running it's all guess now. > > -pete > > > apple xsan x2 (3TB's each), g5's x3 as mdc's qlogic 5220 san switch, they > all connect via the switch, now i just added my hp g4, running fbsd 5.4which is also connnected to the san switch. > hmm, have not played with Apple's Xsan admin tools yet...but you should be able to configure the switch and admin software for the apple disks so that a specific host has access to a certian number of disks. These disks *should* (completely guessing here) be exported to your host systems as raw devices. granted i'd take this with a really small grain of salt.... -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050809/51c39245/attachment.html From nycbug Tue Aug 9 19:41:59 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 19:41:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Never mind In-Reply-To: References: <20050805205109.GC33574@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> <2CBE862A-F5F2-4B9A-8FA9-A989ED6B5FE6@lesmuug.org> <20050809122333.GB11778@syntax.cyth.net> Message-ID: <20050809234159.GA19214@syntax.cyth.net> On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 02:29:51PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Aug 9, 2005, at 8:23 AM, Ray Lai wrote: > >On Sat, Aug 06, 2005 at 01:56:46PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > >>Basically, Apple threw out the slicing conventions alltogether- and > >>simply focused on protecting various directory trees using > >>permissions, (and now acl's etc...), which we do on other BSD's in > >>the first place. > > > >Does it provide replacements for nosuid, noexec, and nodev mount > >flags? > > Yes- mount(8) is mount(8): > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi? > query=mount&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=Darwin+7.0.1+PPC&format=html > -or- > http://tinyurl.com/avszr Yes, but are there per-directory replacements for these mount flags in one partition? -Ray- From truk Tue Aug 9 20:50:48 2005 From: truk (Kurt Miller) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:50:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dual boot IBM thinkpad T40? References: <20050722202748.GA8746@freek.com> Message-ID: <00a401c59d45$8c9d4af0$150110ac@focus> From: "Josh Rivel" > Pretty straightforward, but you might want to get the system recovery > CD from IBM before you try it, just in case you need to re-install > (They should send it to you for free if you call them up and provide > the serial # of your laptop) I know this thread is old, but I've been reading it recently since I'm setting up a T43 today. I thought I'd add that IBM is now charging $45 for the system recovery disks. You can, however, create them yourself under Programs -> Access IBM -> Create Recovery Disks. A CD-R for the first (startup) disk and a DVD-R next works nice. I decided to create them since it lets me delete the rescue partition now and have a way to reset the laptop to factory setup when I sell it. -Kurt From jpb Tue Aug 9 21:16:49 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 21:16:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dual boot IBM thinkpad T40? In-Reply-To: <00a401c59d45$8c9d4af0$150110ac@focus> References: <20050722202748.GA8746@freek.com> <00a401c59d45$8c9d4af0$150110ac@focus> Message-ID: <20050810011649.GC57943@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Kurt Miller [2005-08-09 20:51]: > From: "Josh Rivel" > >Pretty straightforward, but you might want to get the system recovery > >CD from IBM before you try it, just in case you need to re-install > >(They should send it to you for free if you call them up and provide > >the serial # of your laptop) > > I know this thread is old, but I've been reading it recently since > I'm setting up a T43 today. I thought I'd add that IBM is now charging > $45 for the system recovery disks. You can, however, create them > yourself under Programs -> Access IBM -> Create Recovery Disks. > A CD-R for the first (startup) disk and a DVD-R next works nice. I > decided to create them since it lets me delete the rescue partition > now and have a way to reset the laptop to factory setup when I sell it. > When I sell or give stuff away I remember these Four Words: Darik's Boot and Nuke http://dban.sourceforge.net/ Best Regards, Jim B. From george Tue Aug 9 21:45:28 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:45:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . Message-ID: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> Have an idea, and was wondering what others think on the list. There are lots of ports and pkgs. . . we all know enough that we don't know them all, and there are frequently queries to the list that are easily satisfied by a port or pkg somewhere. Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . The idea is that there's so many ports out there, and over time we all find the ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but I know from my experience, I tend to learn more about ports on this list than anywhere else. The other way is that I watch as cvsup updates ports, and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' Dru's comments about porteasy struck me, as did Marc's input on port-maintenance-tools. Thoughts on this? Maybe we could categorize by category or function. It would be more of a place to browse and find new things, not a replacement for freshports or ports browser. g From george Tue Aug 9 23:53:51 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 23:53:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <5B85E1B7-1748-4200-AFD1-37B5732E4A63@tbwachiat.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <5B85E1B7-1748-4200-AFD1-37B5732E4A63@tbwachiat.com> Message-ID: <72ED8642-A36D-448E-81BF-5820ADCECF93@sddi.net> On Aug 9, 2005, at 11:46 PM, Steve Rieger wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 9:45 PM, George R. wrote: > > > > >> Have an idea, and was wondering what others think on the list. >> >> There are lots of ports and pkgs. . . we all know enough that we >> don't know them all, and there are frequently queries to the list >> that are easily satisfied by a port or pkg somewhere. >> >> Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site >> revision with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . >> The idea is that there's so many ports out there, and over time we >> all find the ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but >> I know from my experience, I tend to learn more about ports on >> this list than anywhere else. The other way is that I watch as >> cvsup updates ports, and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' >> >> Dru's comments about porteasy struck me, as did Marc's input on >> port-maintenance-tools. >> >> Thoughts on this? >> >> Maybe we could categorize by category or function. It would be >> more of a place to browse and find new things, not a replacement >> for freshports or ports browser. >> >> g >> >> >> > > > on that note as you create this site, can you leave a place where > us the end users (as opposed to you) can comment on the port make > time options. If it was just me commenting on it, it wouldn't really be a NYCBUG site would it? Not to mention pretty limited ;-) . . . and the notion of port build options would be useful, good point. The intent would be to make it an open forum for NYCBUG people, as everyone has their really awesome ports that they can't live without, that so many others probably aren't aware of. It seems that the different port systems of each BSD follow the same categories (audio, sysutils, etc), so we could group by that. Let's see what our www master MW thinks about this, since he's in the process of overhauling the current site, and is looking to launch it soon. g From o_sleep Wed Aug 10 07:02:16 2005 From: o_sleep (Bjorn Nelson) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:02:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <72ED8642-A36D-448E-81BF-5820ADCECF93@sddi.net> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <5B85E1B7-1748-4200-AFD1-37B5732E4A63@tbwachiat.com> <72ED8642-A36D-448E-81BF-5820ADCECF93@sddi.net> Message-ID: George, On Aug 9, 2005, at 11:53 PM, George R. wrote: > > If it was just me commenting on it, it wouldn't really be a NYCBUG > site would it? Not to mention pretty limited ;-) . . . and the > notion of port build options would be useful, good point. > > The intent would be to make it an open forum for NYCBUG people, as > everyone has their really awesome ports that they can't live > without, that so many others probably aren't aware of. It seems > that the different port systems of each BSD follow the same > categories (audio, sysutils, etc), so we could group by that. > > Let's see what our www master MW thinks about this, since he's in > the process of overhauling the current site, and is looking to > launch it soon. It sounds like a good idea. It would be nice to have a supplement to sites like freshports that would be about the port from a commonplace viewpoint. It took me a while to figure out you need to install php# extensions from their individual port directory rather then try to enable the option from php#-extensions. Also, I know that make option has been around for a little while now, but not many port maintainers seem to use it. -Bjorn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050810/d51eb993/attachment.html From dlavigne6 Wed Aug 10 17:38:11 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050810173311.W699@dru.domain.org> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > Have an idea, and was wondering what others think on the list. > > There are lots of ports and pkgs. . . we all know enough that we don't know > them all, and there are frequently queries to the list that are easily > satisfied by a port or pkg somewhere. > > Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision with > port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . The idea is that there's > so many ports out there, and over time we all find the ones we like/need in a > desktop or server context, but I know from my experience, I tend to learn > more about ports on this list than anywhere else. The other way is that I > watch as cvsup updates ports, and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' > > Dru's comments about porteasy struck me, as did Marc's input on > port-maintenance-tools. > > Thoughts on this? > > Maybe we could categorize by category or function. It would be more of a > place to browse and find new things, not a replacement for freshports or > ports browser. Thinking along the same vein but going down a different fork in the road, here's a different approach: - ask the projects what they think about having an extra hyperlink called "reviews" next to the ports that have them The advantage to this is one stop shopping. The disadvantage is coordinating the reviews and the commits. Along the same lines, it might be easier to approach Dan and see what he thinks about such a thing for freshports... I have another ports idea, but I'll put it in a separate email. Dru From dlavigne6 Wed Aug 10 17:52:39 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSCON ports idea Message-ID: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> Here's an idea that was brought up at OSCON by a Mac user who has recently become a FreeBSD newbie after dabbling a bit with Linux. All these years he had heard of BSD but was under the impression that there was no software for it. (I can hear everyone shouting "ports collection" but stay with me here.) The reason why? Every time he went to an open source software site (firefox, xmms, acrobat, abiword, webmagick, gaim, nvu, digikam...) the download page had links for Windows, several Linux distros and Mac. No BSD link. Just the scary "source for Unix". (aaah, this is why all my students think tarballs are the way to go...) I checked out some sites yesterday. Audacity even had the audacity to use the beastie icon to go to downloads for several Linux binaries! (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/) Now, we all know better. But this guy did bring up a valid point on perception. A nice little project would be to hit the top used open source software sites and give them the URL to the FreeBSD package along with a nice little beastie pic. Anyone interested, I've already compiled a list of the top 50 I can send to you. Otherwise, it's on my list of things to do if I ever get bored (ha ha). Dru From eksffa Wed Aug 10 18:05:50 2005 From: eksffa (Patrick Tracanelli) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:05:50 -0300 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSCON ports idea In-Reply-To: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> References: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <42FA7A3E.7090000@freebsdbrasil.com.br> > Now, we all know better. But this guy did bring up a valid point on > perception. A nice little project would be to hit the top used open > source software sites and give them the URL to the FreeBSD package along > with a nice little beastie pic. Anyone interested, I've already compiled > a list of the top 50 I can send to you. Otherwise, it's on my list of > things to do if I ever get bored (ha ha). Good. I am in. -- Patrick Tracanelli (31) 3281-9633 / 3281-3547 sip://316601 at sip.freebsdbrasil.com.br http://www.freebsdbrasil.com.br "Long live Hanin Elias, Kim Deal!" From lists Wed Aug 10 19:23:08 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050810192209.E46089@zoraida.natserv.net> On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision with > port reviews? I think insted of reviews.. just a list of "recommended" ports. I think it would be a tremendous help for new users who are not familiar yet with all the great tools available for FreeBSD. From george Wed Aug 10 19:31:38 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:31:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050810173311.W699@dru.domain.org> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050810173311.W699@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <42FA8E5A.4050207@sddi.net> Dru wrote: > > > On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > >> Have an idea, and was wondering what others think on the list. >> >> There are lots of ports and pkgs. . . we all know enough that we don't >> know them all, and there are frequently queries to the list that are >> easily satisfied by a port or pkg somewhere. >> >> Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision >> with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . The idea is >> that there's so many ports out there, and over time we all find the >> ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but I know from my >> experience, I tend to learn more about ports on this list than >> anywhere else. The other way is that I watch as cvsup updates ports, >> and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' >> >> Dru's comments about porteasy struck me, as did Marc's input on >> port-maintenance-tools. >> >> Thoughts on this? >> >> Maybe we could categorize by category or function. It would be more >> of a place to browse and find new things, not a replacement for >> freshports or ports browser. > > > > Thinking along the same vein but going down a different fork in the > road, here's a different approach: > > - ask the projects what they think about having an extra hyperlink > called "reviews" next to the ports that have them > > The advantage to this is one stop shopping. The disadvantage is > coordinating the reviews and the commits. > > Along the same lines, it might be easier to approach Dan and see what he > thinks about such a thing for freshports... > > I have another ports idea, but I'll put it in a separate email. > > Dru > > that's a decent fork. . . kind of like having useful comments on sourceforge. . . something that may happen when we're all retired. if freshports went beyond fbsd, it would be great there, although the variations in versions doesn't mean the general reviews need to be separated by bsd project. g From george Wed Aug 10 19:36:03 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:36:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSCON ports idea In-Reply-To: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> References: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <42FA8F63.1080809@sddi.net> Dru wrote: > > Here's an idea that was brought up at OSCON by a Mac user who has > recently become a FreeBSD newbie after dabbling a bit with Linux. > > All these years he had heard of BSD but was under the impression that > there was no software for it. (I can hear everyone shouting "ports > collection" but stay with me here.) The reason why? Every time he went > to an open source software site (firefox, xmms, acrobat, abiword, > webmagick, gaim, nvu, digikam...) the download page had links for > Windows, several Linux distros and Mac. No BSD link. Just the scary > "source for Unix". (aaah, this is why all my students think tarballs are > the way to go...) > > I checked out some sites yesterday. Audacity even had the audacity to > use the beastie icon to go to downloads for several Linux binaries! > (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/) although it does say "linux/unix". . . but no bsd option when you follow the link. i know kirk's copyright is against commercial misuse, but i wish this kind of thing had some safeguards. . . > > Now, we all know better. But this guy did bring up a valid point on > perception. A nice little project would be to hit the top used open > source software sites and give them the URL to the FreeBSD package along > with a nice little beastie pic. Anyone interested, I've already compiled > a list of the top 50 I can send to you. Otherwise, it's on my list of > things to do if I ever get bored (ha ha). This is a point that needs to be taken well and honestly. It's a common perception of non-BSD users. Yeah, the replies of ports/pkgs, Linux emulation when necessary, etc., are all our reactions, but for those new to the BSDs, it is a bit confusing. it would be cool to automate this online, so that you'd fill out a form with the contact email address for the app, the link (s) for the port/pkg, etc. another thing on the to-do list. . . g From lists Wed Aug 10 19:45:54 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:45:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050810194554.28fb5844@genoverly.com> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:45:28 -0400 "George R." wrote: > Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision > > with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . The idea is > that there's so many ports out there, and over time we all find the > ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but I know from my > experience, I tend to learn more about ports on this list than > anywhere else. How would you lay it out? +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Ports we find useful | +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | | | | | | Category | SubCategory | /usr/ports/path | why I like it | | | | | | +-----------------------------------------------------------+ It could be a little bit of maintenance chore, but if done right, could prove to be valuable. > The other way is that I watch as cvsup updates ports, > and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' .. so it is not just me.. haha Michael From dlavigne6 Wed Aug 10 19:58:13 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050810194554.28fb5844@genoverly.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050810194554.28fb5844@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <20050810195707.W699@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, michael wrote: >> The other way is that I watch as cvsup updates ports, >> and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' > > .. so it is not just me.. haha And for the truly impatient, freshports has an RSS feed :-) Dru From mikel.king Wed Aug 10 22:00:55 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:00:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050810173311.W699@dru.domain.org> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050810173311.W699@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <2444C14A-A2DB-493F-9D1D-2EADE6FEB926@ocsny.com> On Aug 10, 2005, at 5:38 PM, Dru wrote: > > > On Tue, 9 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > > > >> Have an idea, and was wondering what others think on the list. >> >> There are lots of ports and pkgs. . . we all know enough that we >> don't know them all, and there are frequently queries to the list >> that are easily satisfied by a port or pkg somewhere. >> >> Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site >> revision with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . >> The idea is that there's so many ports out there, and over time we >> all find the ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but >> I know from my experience, I tend to learn more about ports on >> this list than anywhere else. The other way is that I watch as >> cvsup updates ports, and think 'hey, that looks interesting. . .' >> >> Dru's comments about porteasy struck me, as did Marc's input on >> port-maintenance-tools. >> >> Thoughts on this? >> >> Maybe we could categorize by category or function. It would be >> more of a place to browse and find new things, not a replacement >> for freshports or ports browser. >> >> > > > Thinking along the same vein but going down a different fork in the > road, here's a different approach: > > - ask the projects what they think about having an extra hyperlink > called "reviews" next to the ports that have them > > The advantage to this is one stop shopping. The disadvantage is > coordinating the reviews and the commits. > > Along the same lines, it might be easier to approach Dan and see > what he thinks about such a thing for freshports... > > I have another ports idea, but I'll put it in a separate email. > > Dru > I think the latter approach would be best. As it would require the least effort from the developers, and definitely fp or even dn would be the best place to add this sort of end user drive db. Cheers, Mikel King CIO, Director of Network Operations Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com t:212.727.2100x132 +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From george Wed Aug 10 22:16:16 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:16:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050810194554.28fb5844@genoverly.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050810194554.28fb5844@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <20050811021616.GA946@sta.duo> On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 07:45:54PM -0400, michael wrote: >On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:45:28 -0400 >"George R." wrote: > > > >> Would it be useful to create an area on the upcoming www site revision >> >> with port reviews? (sorry to jump in your space MW). . . The idea is >> that there's so many ports out there, and over time we all find the >> ones we like/need in a desktop or server context, but I know from my >> experience, I tend to learn more about ports on this list than >> anywhere else. > > > >How would you lay it out? >+-----------------------------------------------------------+ >| Ports we find useful | >+-----------------------------------------------------------+ >| | | | | >| Category | SubCategory | /usr/ports/path | why I like it | >| | | | | >+-----------------------------------------------------------+ Hi! +----------------------------------------------------+ | Ports we find useful | +----------------------------------------------------+ | | | | | /usr/ports/path | positive hits | expand comments | | | | | +----------------------------------------------------+ BTW, I keep a master make.conf file that I drop in new hosts. in addition to the expected stuff, I put lines like this # /usr/ports/sysutils/portupgrade which are a note to help me find Makefiles, and remind me what I like but then I run something like this... sed -e '/^# \/usr\/ports/s/^# //' /etc/make.conf | grep ^/usr/ports \ | while read port; do cd $port && make install done Which takes care of building my must have ports. Next step, preset options for packages like gettext so it works non-interactive. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From okan Wed Aug 10 22:21:25 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:21:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> On Tue 2005.08.09 at 21:45 -0400, George Rosamond wrote: > Thoughts on this? How about just going to the source of the problem? When you find a port that you think everyone should know about, go to the author and tell them that there is a Free/Net/OpenBSD port with a link or reference they themselves can put on their "supported platforms" list. Now another project would be to correlate all the various *BSD ports into one location and then let the community help develop ports for the BSD's that don't have them yet. Help the *BSD's that way. For example: milter-regex: "sendmail milter plugin for regular expression filtering" freebsd: mail/milter-regex/ netbsd: mail/milter-regex/ openbsd: mail/milter-regex/ (bad example) symon: "active monitoring tool" freebsd: net-mgmnt/symon/ netbsd: NULL openbsd: net/symon/ now if someone who thinks symon is very key, they can make sure a netbsd port gets done, i.e. they do it themselves with the help of the other 2 ports already done... so you can take this further into flavors/subpackages and versions if one wishes... ideas, that's all. From hzs202 Wed Aug 10 22:47:18 2005 From: hzs202 (hzs202 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:47:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More Help w/ Mutt Message-ID: <20050811024718.GA7848@gmail.com> Hi All, Some of you know I recently setup Mutt on a dual-boot FBSD/Linux Machine and there are some things that I still tinkering with. Like for instance I have Procmail delivering *mail-list* mail to mailboxes setup by .muttrc. However, all the mail delivered in these mailboxes has a (0) in the mail size column. Why is this, do I need to setup some kind of hook. I certainly hope not, for something so trivial. Anyway, see both my .muttrc file and .procmailrc file below: ********************************************************************** .muttrc mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.freebsd/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.freebsd mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.perl/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.perl mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.nycbug/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.nycbug mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.canyu/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.canyu mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.ubuntu-users/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.ubuntu-users mailboxes ~/Mail/mail-lists.ubuntu-news/ mailboxes {localhost/ssl}Mail.mail-lists.ubuntu-news mailboxes `echo $HOME/Mail/*` ********************************************************************* .procmailrc MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail # Formail Variable FORMAIL=/usr/bin/formail # Mail-list Variable MAILLIST=$MAILDIR :0: * ^TO_*questions at freebsd.org $MAILLIST/mail-lists.freebsd/list.freebsd :0: * ^TO_beginners at perl.org $MAILLIST/mail-lists.perl/lists.perl :0: * ^TO_talk at lists.nycbug.org $MAILLIST/mail-lists.nycbug/lists.nycbug Again, the problem is that Mutt does not recognize the size of the mail-files droped in the mail-list mailboxes. A little help would be great guys. Thanks Best, -- Hakim Singhji New York University hzs202 at nyu.edu Don't relax! It's only your tension that's holding you together. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050810/47bcfb76/attachment.bin From george Wed Aug 10 22:50:25 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 22:50:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:21:25PM -0400, Okan Demirmen wrote: >On Tue 2005.08.09 at 21:45 -0400, George Rosamond wrote: >Now another project would be to correlate all the various *BSD ports >into one location and then let the community help develop ports for the >BSD's that don't have them yet. Help the *BSD's that way. isn't pkgsrc a lot like this? As far as new ports go, I'd love to see a ps and netstat replacement that works like these command lines do in linux. ps -e f -o pid,user,cmd --sort=user 30502 root \_ /usr/sbin/sshd 30504 geo | \_ /usr/sbin/sshd 30505 geo | \_ -bash 1346 geo | \_ ps -e f -o pid,user,cmd --sort=user netstat -ptuna Active Internet connections (servers and established) Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State PID/Program name tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:515 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 2409/lpd tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:80 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 766/apache udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:123 0.0.0.0:* 355/ntpd notice the nice legible forest (pstree) output of ps, and the inclusion of PIDs in the linux netstat. Of course (for those that know my story) my main task is making an openbsd kernel that doesn't rename my ata disk when I add/remove a sata drive... or just uses partition labels in fstab to mount the right partition in the right place, sigh, but I've got other porting from linux issues to resolve . ...thanks for your python patch Okan. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From george Wed Aug 10 23:24:11 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:24:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More Help w/ Mutt In-Reply-To: <20050811024718.GA7848@gmail.com> References: <20050811024718.GA7848@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050811032411.GC946@sta.duo> On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:47:18PM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: >Hi All, > >Some of you know I recently setup Mutt on a dual-boot FBSD/Linux Machine >and there are some things that I still tinkering with. Like for instance >I have Procmail delivering *mail-list* mail to mailboxes setup by >.muttrc. However, all the mail delivered in these mailboxes has a (0) in >the mail size column. Why is this, do I need to setup some kind of >hook. I certainly hope not, for something so trivial. Anyway, see both >my .muttrc file and .procmailrc file below: mailboxes setup by mutt? you could just do mkdir -p mailboxes/mailbox/{new,cur,tmp} >.procmailrc > >MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail ># Formail Variable >FORMAIL=/usr/bin/formail ># Mail-list Variable >MAILLIST=$MAILDIR >:0: >* ^TO_talk at lists.nycbug.org >$MAILLIST/mail-lists.nycbug/lists.nycbug The second ":" is to lock the mbox, you don't need it for maildir. here's how I do procmail... #VERBOSE="yes" LOGFILE=$HOME/.procmail-logfile SENDMAIL=/var/qmail/bin/sendmail SENDMAILFLAGS="-oem -oi" MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail DEFAULT=$MAILDIR/stray/ # anything not explicitly sorted goes in the stray maildir :0 * ^Sender:.talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org |safecat bsd-nycbug bsd-nycbug/new I stopped using TO_ a long time ago because mail list mail is only mail list mail if it came from the maillist server. You may have to build safecat, the advantage of using safecat that way instead of just bsd-nycbug/ (per the MAILDIR env set above it goes in $HOME/Mail/bsd-nycbug/) safecat touches the mtime of bsd-nycbug/ when it creates a tmp file, so I can see the order of last mail deliveries with "ls -rlt $HOME/Mail" >Again, the problem is that Mutt does not recognize the size of the >mail-files droped in the mail-list mailboxes. A little help would be >great guys. Thanks Heh, I'm a mutt head. Looks like you are using %l in your index_format see man muttrc, it's in there by default. %l number of lines in the message (does not work with maildir, mh, and possibly IMAP folders) Try this in your $HOME/.muttrc set hdr_format="%6C %Z %{%m/%d} %-15.15F (%4c) %s" it will use 4 spaces to show the number of bytes (%c) in the email. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From lists Thu Aug 11 10:43:41 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly Message-ID: <20050811104341.4b36e63f@genoverly.com> Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:51:28 -0700 From: Marsee Henon Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, August 10 ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members August 10, 2005 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -PC Pest Control -Computer Privacy Annoyances -Start Your Engines -Linux in a Nutshell, 5th Edition -Linux Made Easy -Degunking Your Mac, Tiger Edition -Host Integrity Monitoring Using Osiris and Samhain -Open Source for the Enterprise -Car PC Hacks -Adobe Photoshop CS2 One-on-One -Using Moodle -Nokia Smartphone Hacks -Propellerhead Reason Tips and Tricks -Learning Perl, 4th Edition -Mac OS X: The Missing Manual, Tiger Edition -MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Chris Date ("Database in Depth") Keynotes NoCOUG Next Conference, San Ramon, CA--August 18 -Scott Berkun ("The Art of Project Management") Leads Dr. Dobbs Great Writers NetSeminar--Aug 31 -O'Reilly at PhotoShop World, Boston, MA--September 7-8 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -ETech 2006 CFP Now Open -Registration is Open for EuroOSCON ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Connection Launched at OSCON -Learning Lab August Special -What Is Flickr (and Hot Tips for Using It) -An Interview with Chris Date -Small Screen Testing in Firefox -Don't Waste Time With Black Hat SEO Strategies -Business for Geeks at OSCON 2005 -The Practicality of OO PHP -Porting Test::Builder to Perl 6 -Problems in Oracle Reports -Automator Automaton--David Pogue's Podcast -What Is NeoOffice/J (and Can It Replace MS Office) -An In-Depth Look at Vista, Part 1 -Internet Security Annoyances -Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 -Give Your Business Logic a Framework with Drools -Digital Photography Hack: A Hands-Free Shooting Rig -Bay Area Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--November 12 & 13 -Hacking Ebook Readers ---------------------------------------------------------------- >From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Announcing "Picn*x14", Sunnyvale, CA--August 14 ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? 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Employers can quickly search through O'Reilly Connection to find job or consultant candidates with the specific qualifications they need. Because profiles on O'Reilly Connection display members' networks, they provide a richer picture than a standard resume. During the beta period, O'Reilly Connection is offering free job postings to all members. http://connection.oreilly.com/ ***Learning Lab August Special In our practice-based, self-paced courses, you can build your online portfolio with plenty of instructor feedback and a free O'Reilly book for reference. For a limited time, use the discount passcode "tarsier" to save an extra 15% off any of our courses--including all University of Illinois Certificate Series. http://oreilly.useractive.com/courses/certificates.php3 ***What Is Flickr (and Hot Tips for Using It) Flickr is an online photo management and sharing application. And it's also one of the most innovative photo services available today. In this article, Giles Turnbull shows you how Flickr works, then introduces you to some of the great tools you can use to interact with it. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/02/flickr.html ***An Interview with Chris Date In this extensive conversation, Chris Date debunks a lot of misinformation on "weaknesses of the relational model;" discusses the impact of his classic book, "The Third Manifesto;" evaluates the future of SQL as well as his past comments on the language; and closes with his thoughts on the future of DBMSs. Chris is the author of "Database in Depth: Relational Theory for Practitioners." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/07/29/cjdate.html ***Small Screen Testing in Firefox Want to test how your webpages will look on PDA's and cell phones? Alex uncovers a nifty Firefox utility that allows you to do just that. http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=284188 ***Don't Waste Time With Black Hat SEO Strategies Dan Thies recounts an email from a reader of his blog who wasted dozens of hours setting up an elaborate scheme to fool Google--only to fall flat on his face. http://www.sitepoint.com/blog-post-view.php?id=278042 --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Business for Geeks at OSCON 2005 In his sold-out opening day tutorial at O'Reilly's Open Source Conference (OSCON) 2005, Marc Hedlund, O'Reilly's entrepreneur-in-residence, gave a crash course in seeing work from the business point of view. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/08/04/oscon2005_1.html ***The Practicality of OO PHP PHP is an easy language for doing practical things immediately. The easiest ways to begin aren't always the best ways to stay productive, though. PHP's support for object orientation requires a little more learning and a little more discipline, but it has many benefits for larger projects. David Day explains the basics of OO in PHP 4. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/php/2005/07/28/oo_php.html ***Porting Test::Builder to Perl 6 With Pugs and Parrot playing nicely and bringing Perl 6 to the rest of us, enterprising early adopters are experimenting with porting their popular Perl 5 modules to Perl 6. O'Reilly editor chromatic recently pushed the limits of Pugs by porting Test::Builder to Perl 6. Here's what he learned about Perl 6, Pugs, and his design along the way. chromatic is the coauthor of "Perl Testing: A Developer's Notebook." http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2005/07/28/test_builder_p6.html ***Problems in Oracle Reports Noel Davis looks at problems in Oracle Reports, Skype for Linux, MediaWiki, Kate, Kwrite, Shorewall, ekg, libgadu, PHPNews, phpSurveyor, Affix, Heartbeat, and phpPgAdmin. http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/07/29/security_alerts.html --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Automator Automaton--David Pogue's Podcast Listen to David Pogue cover Automator workflows that can help save on computing time. Learn how to use Automator to automate backups, zip up applications, and set alarms for automatic processing. (4 minutes, 26 seconds) http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/09/tigerpodcast3.html ***What Is NeoOffice/J (and Can It Replace MS Office) NeoOffice/J is the long-awaited Mac-friendly version of OpenOffice. This open source project provides Mac users with most of the functionality of Microsoft Office, but for free. Is NeoOffice robust enough to serve as your only office suite in a Microsoft-dominated world? Matthew Russell explores. Plus, an in-depth interview with its lead developer, Patrick Lubby. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/09/neooffice.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***An In-Depth Look at Vista, Part 1 The long wait for the first beta of Microsoft's new Windows OS is finally over. Wei-Meng Lee took it for a spin and gives a detailed overview of Vista. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/08/02/vista.html ***Internet Security Annoyances Spyware, Trojans, worms, viruses, phishing, and now pharming--all security issues that can lead to a disenchanting internet experience. This excerpt from Internet Annoyances can help you prevent these kinds of security breaches with tips on configuring your home router for maximum security, constructing your own personal firewall, and more. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/excerpt/internetannoy_chap9/index.html ***Localization in ASP.NET 2.0 The Web is an international place. Why shouldn't your websites be ready for international visitors? With the introduction of ASP.NET 2.0, Microsoft aims to make it easy to localize your website for individual users, no matter where they hail from. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how you can localize your ASP.NET 2.0 web applications. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/08/08/localizingaspnet20.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Give Your Business Logic a Framework with Drools It's almost too easy to express your business logic as a spaghetti-code fiasco. The result is hard to test, hard to maintain, and hard to update. Rule engines offer an alternative: express your business logic as rules, outside of your Java code, in a format even the business side of the office can understand. Paul Browne uses the open source Drools framework to introduce the idea. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/08/03/drools.html --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Digital Photography Hack: A Hands-Free Shooting Rig Here's how to build a hands-free photography rig using an iSight, a Bluetooth headset, a backpack, and a dash of AppleScript that enables you to capture images on the go by simply speaking, "Take shot." Romain Guy shows you how to build it. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/05/photography.html --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***Bay Area Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--November 12 & 13 Join us for MAKE magazine's first ever Maker Faire--a hands-on event featuring Makers whose science and technology projects will amaze you and ignite your imagination. Bring your family and friends to the San Mateo Fairgrounds for a weekend of hands-on exploration, recipe-sharing, creative mischief-making and wholesome play. For more information, go to: http://makezine.com/faire/ ***Hacking Ebook Readers The Sony Librie is a stunning, e-ink eBook reading device with the most print-like book reading experience you can have at this time (the display moves microscopic black and white particles held within spherical microcapsules). For the most part, it hasn't been a success in the market--Sony crippled it with DRM and only released in it Japan. But the hackers and tinkerers of the world have taken this device and modded the firmware. Now we're going to show you how to make non-DRMed eBooks for free http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/08/how_to_make_drm_1.html ***For more information on MAKE, go to: http://www.makezine.com/ ================================================ >From Your Peers ================================================ ***Announcing "Picn*x14", Sunnyvale, CA--August 14 August marks the 14th birthday of the Linux kernel, and the local Linux community is throwing its annual picnic and barbecue to celebrate. The picnic is a free, family-friendly event. Free food and soft-drinks will be provided to those who RSVP in advance. Sports, games, and geeky activities will take place. http://www.linuxpicnic.org/ For maps and directions, see: http://www.linuxpicnic.org/directions/ To RSVP for this event, visit: http://www.linuxpicnic.org/rsvp/ ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- From hzs202 Thu Aug 11 12:43:57 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:43:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) Message-ID: Hello All, Firstly, I must say that I have been feeling rather lonely with respect to my interests in Information Technology. Most of my acquaintances and family members involved in IT or application development are focused on Microsoft products or a business oriented aspect of information technology as opposed to technology development. Today, I read an article on ZDNet (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-5806608.html) that inspired me... and reminded me why I decided to devote my career to systems and application development in Unix environments. Paul Murphy wrote the article entitled "The Unity of Unix" and quite frankly it was a long overdue publication of significance. As a student of Information Technology it is important for me to remember that the premise of my involvement was not for a paycheck but for the academic significance associated with Unix. Paul reminds us (Unix people) of this when he writes: > "In this context, it's important to remember where Unix and open source came from: > they're implementations of core academic traditions in the development of community and > the publication of results". Also, the opinion that "Unix market is too fragmented" is discussed in Murphy's article and approached from a position that is closely related to my own conclusions. I have had this discussion with many people and have even lost a few OS comparisons about the uniformity and consistency of Unix as opposed to MS OS products. Murphy supports the compatibility of Unix when he states: > "Unix doesn't have Microsoft's surface consistency, but theory drives change to build a > record of continuity as ideas are tested, accepted, and implemented. As a result, the > examples in Kernighan and Ritchie's 1978 The C Programming Language (which is still > required reading at NYU) work today..." The bottom line is that Unix is Unix and the benefits come from openness,_the community_, and 50 years of tradition. In that respect it does not matter whether your tool of choice is Red Hat, Solaris or Darwin but it work and if it work is it working well (3). > "Remember, a rising tide lifts all boats: the more Macs and Sun machines get installed, > the more value your Red Hat certification will really have." cross-posted: talk at lists.nycbug, canyu at forums.nyu.edu Best, -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Weak minds discuss people". From eksffa Thu Aug 11 14:18:10 2005 From: eksffa (Patrick Tracanelli) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:18:10 -0300 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSCON ports idea In-Reply-To: <42FA8F63.1080809@sddi.net> References: <20050810173823.Y699@dru.domain.org> <42FA8F63.1080809@sddi.net> Message-ID: <42FB9662.40802@freebsdbrasil.com.br> > it would be cool to automate this online, so that you'd fill out a form > with the contact email address for the app, the link (s) for the > port/pkg, etc. > > another thing on the to-do list. . . > > g Agree. I think there should be one form for applications suggestion and a second (or second part of the same form), suggesting links refering to port|pkgsrc and/or package (if available) for all major BSD systems; I think I can deal with that; -- Patrick Tracanelli FreeBSD Brasil LTDA. (31) 3281-9633 / 3281-3547 sip://316601 at sip.freebsdbrasil.com.br http://www.freebsdbrasil.com.br "Long live Hanin Elias, Kim Deal!" From dlavigne6 Thu Aug 11 15:01:51 2005 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <20050811145648.I571@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Okan Demirmen wrote: > Now another project would be to correlate all the various *BSD ports > into one location and then let the community help develop ports for the > BSD's that don't have them yet. Help the *BSD's that way. You mean something like a "bsdsoftware.org" or some other cool sounding domain name someone could volunteer to register and provide content for? (general hint to the Universe or anyone desiring the fame that comes with a make-work project..) > symon: "active monitoring tool" > freebsd: net-mgmnt/symon/ > netbsd: NULL > openbsd: net/symon/ > > now if someone who thinks symon is very key, they can make sure > a netbsd port gets done, i.e. they do it themselves with the > help of the other 2 ports already done... > > so you can take this further into flavors/subpackages and versions if one > wishes... > > ideas, that's all. Cool idea, having links to each project's ports/packages in one location. Might also get more people interested in donating their skills to maintaining software and possibly earning a commit bit. Would also be helpful if, say, BSD Certification required a component showing proven time-in supporting one of the projects. Dru From steve.rieger Thu Aug 11 16:01:47 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:01:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nfs client fbsd 5.4 Message-ID: <8134C3B2-3320-4164-B709-31BD5BC789A4@tbwachiat.com> i thought that i have the ability to mount nfs with the hard option in my /etc/fstab but obviously i dont and so i have a question for you people am currently mounting all my websites via nfs off a san (about 1TB) with the following options nfs-server:/export/http /http nfs rw,noatime 0 0 what can i do to make a (even slight) increase in speed/stat times, am getting too many smarty issues, to be comfortable to sleep at night. -- Steve Rieger AIM chozrim ICQ 53956607 Cell 646 335 8915 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. 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From nomadlogic Thu Aug 11 16:12:51 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:12:51 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nfs client fbsd 5.4 In-Reply-To: <8134C3B2-3320-4164-B709-31BD5BC789A4@tbwachiat.com> References: <8134C3B2-3320-4164-B709-31BD5BC789A4@tbwachiat.com> Message-ID: <57d710000508111312d5fec66@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > > i thought that i have the ability to mount nfs with the hard option > in my /etc/fstab but obviously i dont > > and so i have a question for you people > > am currently mounting all my websites via nfs off a san (about 1TB) > with the following options > nfs-server:/export/http /http nfs rw,noatime 0 0 looks like you are using more of a NAS topology instead of a SAN topology ;) what can i do to make a (even slight) increase in speed/stat times, > am getting too many smarty issues, to be comfortable to sleep at night. first thing i'd due is check your read/write buffer size between the nas and your client. Depending on the size/frequence of the data you are moving maybe having 16k blocks or 32k blocks will give you better performance than the default, which i belive is 8k. Also, check your network settings....are you using gig-e between the nfs client and server? if so try using "fat packets", some switches support MTU of 9600. this will improve performace greatly for large data sets. i'd also finally check how you have your disks RAID'd, are you happy with your disk I/O etc.. HTH -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050811/e2534dff/attachment.html From max Thu Aug 11 16:47:28 2005 From: max (max) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:47:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nfs client fbsd 5.4 In-Reply-To: <57d710000508111312d5fec66@mail.gmail.com> References: <8134C3B2-3320-4164-B709-31BD5BC789A4@tbwachiat.com> <57d710000508111312d5fec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050811204728.GA73560@neuropunks.org> On top of this, may be you should consider afs or coda? NFS is pretty slow usually. migration is a pain, but it would be worth it. On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 01:12:51PM -0700, pete wright wrote: > On 8/11/05, Steve Rieger wrote: > > > > i thought that i have the ability to mount nfs with the hard option > > in my /etc/fstab but obviously i dont > > > > and so i have a question for you people > > > > am currently mounting all my websites via nfs off a san (about 1TB) > > with the following options > > nfs-server:/export/http /http nfs rw,noatime 0 0 > > > > looks like you are using more of a NAS topology instead of a SAN topology ;) > > what can i do to make a (even slight) increase in speed/stat times, > > am getting too many smarty issues, to be comfortable to sleep at night. > > > first thing i'd due is check your read/write buffer size between the nas and > your client. Depending on the size/frequence of the data you are moving > maybe having 16k blocks or 32k blocks will give you better performance than > the default, which i belive is 8k. Also, check your network settings....are > you using gig-e between the nfs client and server? if so try using "fat > packets", some switches support MTU of 9600. this will improve performace > greatly for large data sets. > > i'd also finally check how you have your disks RAID'd, are you happy with > your disk I/O etc.. > > HTH > -pete > > > > -- > ~~o0OO0o~~ > Pete Wright > www.nycbug.org > NYC's *BSD User Group > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month From mspitzer Thu Aug 11 18:37:24 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:37:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> On 8/10/05, George Georgalis wrote: > On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 10:21:25PM -0400, Okan Demirmen wrote: > >On Tue 2005.08.09 at 21:45 -0400, George Rosamond wrote: > > >Now another project would be to correlate all the various *BSD ports > >into one location and then let the community help develop ports for the > >BSD's that don't have them yet. Help the *BSD's that way. > > isn't pkgsrc a lot like this? As far as new ports go, I'd love to see > a ps and netstat replacement that works like these command lines do in > linux. Replacement bad, break scripts etc.... /usr/pkgsrc/sysutild/pstree good, installs as proctree so there is no confusion. > > ps -e f -o pid,user,cmd --sort=user > 30502 root \_ /usr/sbin/sshd > 30504 geo | \_ /usr/sbin/sshd > 30505 geo | \_ -bash > 1346 geo | \_ ps -e f -o pid,user,cmd --sort=user > > > netstat -ptuna > Active Internet connections (servers and established) > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address Foreign Address State PID/Program name > tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:515 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 2409/lpd > tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:80 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 766/apache > udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:123 0.0.0.0:* 355/ntpd > lsof -i4 is damm close, if i read the man page I could probably get the proc name as well. marc From mspitzer Thu Aug 11 19:04:52 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:04:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508111604672224bf@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/05, Hakim Singhji wrote: > Hello All, > > Firstly, I must say that I have been feeling rather lonely with > respect to my interests in Information Technology. Most of my > acquaintances and family members involved in IT or application > development are focused on Microsoft products or a business oriented > aspect of information technology as opposed to technology development. > Today, I read an article on ZDNet > (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-5806608.html) that inspired me... > and reminded me why I decided to devote my career to systems and > application development in Unix environments. > > Paul Murphy wrote the article entitled "The Unity of Unix" and quite > frankly it was a long overdue publication of significance. As a > student of Information Technology it is important for me to remember > that the premise of my involvement was not for a paycheck but for the > academic significance associated with Unix. Paul reminds us (Unix > people) of this when he writes: > > > "In this context, it's important to remember where Unix and open source came from: > > they're implementations of core academic traditions in the development of community and > > the publication of results". Actually open source is as old as computers, think 1950-60 mainframes. They came with the source code for everything. The reason was source code was not considered valuable, the vendor made his money on the box and support. > The bottom line is that Unix is Unix and the benefits come from > openness,_the community_, and 50 years of tradition. In that respect there was no unix in 1955, 40 possibly and 35 is a good bet > it does not matter whether your tool of choice is Red Hat, Solaris or > Darwin but it work and if it work is it working well (3). ok Linux is not unix, It just kinda looks like it. > > > "Remember, a rising tide lifts all boats: the more Macs and Sun machines get installed, > > the more value your Red Hat certification will really have." That makes no sense, if solaris sells enough boxes to marginalize redhat how will RHEC be *more* valuable to have. All of the major linux distros I have worked/played with, from an admin POV, are worlds unto them selves all the tools are different and the config files are stored in different places. And the same can be said with any if them and any of the bsds or solaris. Also please keep in mind that much of the open source software out there is only developed because it is funded, it does not have a self sustaining mass of volunteers that are committed to it for its own sake. It can be a show piece to help someone get a job or software that is generated in the process of an academic doing funded research or companies that want to use software that does X not sell it. Most of these projects stop when the money goes away or the student gets a job. marc From maudeuser Thu Aug 11 20:15:09 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from a USB CD drive? Message-ID: <20050812001509.83670.qmail@web31607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello - I want to install FreeBSD 5.3 onto a rackmount server that came with two SATA hard drives (it came with no CD or floppy). I will borrow a keyboard and monitor because I was informed today on this list that a "headless install" from my laptop over a null-modem cable would slow. I was going to buy a cheap USB floppy drive today (I saw prices from $30 to $50) but at jandr.com in NYC today I saw a USB CD-RW/DVD+/-RW on sale for $99 (Panasonic DVRS706) so I got that instead, figuring it was "more bang for the buck". Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from this USB CD drive? If not, what sort of CD drive can I install from? Thanks. - Steve Brooklyn NYC --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050811/d430bac9/attachment.html From jpb Thu Aug 11 21:20:37 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:20:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from a USB CD drive? In-Reply-To: <20050812001509.83670.qmail@web31607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050812001509.83670.qmail@web31607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050812012037.GB74776@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Maude User [2005-08-11 20:15]: > Hello - > > I want to install FreeBSD 5.3 onto a rackmount server that came with two SATA hard drives > (it came with no CD or floppy). I will borrow a keyboard and monitor because I was informed > today on this list that a "headless install" from my laptop over a null-modem cable would slow. > > I was going to buy a cheap USB floppy drive today (I saw prices from $30 to $50) but at jandr.com in NYC today I saw a USB CD-RW/DVD+/-RW on sale for $99 > (Panasonic DVRS706) so I got that instead, figuring it was "more bang for the buck". > > Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from this USB CD drive? > > If not, what sort of CD drive can I install from? While I don't know the specfic equipment in your question, the general response is that it is the BIOS that determines 'bootability' i.e. whether a device can be used as a boot device. Check the BIOS setting first, there may be a setting for booting from USB. If not, try 'removable drives' if it is shown. If that fails, you might be able to boot from a network device using PXE booting. Check the handbook (and your BIOS documentation) regarding PXE boot support. If all that fails, try removing the hard disk and placing it in another compatible system which has a bootable CD ROM. And if *that* fails, post again. I'll be really interested to hear your curs^w comments. Best Regards, Jim B. From jfranks214 Thu Aug 11 22:12:43 2005 From: jfranks214 (Jonathan Franks) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:12:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More on gmail and mailing lists In-Reply-To: <20050809072408.GB9103@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> References: <20050808193140.GA61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050809072408.GB9103@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Message-ID: On Aug 9, 2005, at 3:24 AM, David Rio Deiros wrote: > On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 03:31:40PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > >> I sent a feature request to them--I'll keep you guys posted of any >> answers. >> > > Thanks Scott. Yes... thank you. This has been eating away at my insides for months now. (okay not quite, but it freaked me out a bit when I first switched to gmail for CDBUG) -Jonathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050811/63d28fd7/attachment.html From maudeuser Thu Aug 11 22:52:25 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from a USB CD drive? In-Reply-To: <20050812012037.GB74776@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050812025225.5271.qmail@web31601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for this info. The handbook chapter on BIOS (see below) doesn't mention "USB" but it says the machine can boot from "Removable Devices" so it sounds like your first suggestion about booting from removable drives would work. It also says something about PXE so it looks like your second suggestion would also work. Thanks, -- Steve PS - More detail below about this server's specs (link below) -- it's a Tyan GS12 motherboard: --> Integrated LAN controller (Intel 82547GI CSA & 82541GI PCI 10/100/1000 GbE LAN controllers) with two RJ-45 LAN connectors --> Supports Intel P4 processor 800/533 MHz FSB --> Supports up to 2 IDE HDD devices (Serial ATA and Ultra ATA/100 connectors) --> Supports RAID 0, 1 --> One 32-bit/33 MHz PCI v2.3 slot --> Four USB 2.0 ports --> Phoenix BIOS on 4Mb Flash ROM; UCR and PXE (LAN remote boot); SM BIOS 2.3.1 (backward compatible w/ DMI 2.0) http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gs12b5103_spec.html In the handbook (link to PDF below), the BIOS chapter says: > The Boot Menu allows you to set the priority of the booting devices: > - Removable Devices > - Hard Drive > - CD-ROM > - IBA GE Slot 0208 v1216 (LAN Intel 82547GI) ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_gs12b5103_100.pdf Jim Brown wrote: * Maude User [2005-08-11 20:15]: > Hello - > > I want to install FreeBSD 5.3 onto a rackmount server that came with two SATA hard drives > (it came with no CD or floppy). I will borrow a keyboard and monitor because I was informed > today on this list that a "headless install" from my laptop over a null-modem cable would slow. > > I was going to buy a cheap USB floppy drive today (I saw prices from $30 to $50) but at jandr.com in NYC today I saw a USB CD-RW/DVD+/-RW on sale for $99 > (Panasonic DVRS706) so I got that instead, figuring it was "more bang for the buck". > > Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from this USB CD drive? > > If not, what sort of CD drive can I install from? While I don't know the specfic equipment in your question, the general response is that it is the BIOS that determines 'bootability' i.e. whether a device can be used as a boot device. Check the BIOS setting first, there may be a setting for booting from USB. If not, try 'removable drives' if it is shown. If that fails, you might be able to boot from a network device using PXE booting. Check the handbook (and your BIOS documentation) regarding PXE boot support. If all that fails, try removing the hard disk and placing it in another compatible system which has a bootable CD ROM. And if *that* fails, post again. I'll be really interested to hear your curs^w comments. Best Regards, Jim B. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050811/23a10f97/attachment.html From lists Thu Aug 11 23:11:11 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050811230816.R58509@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > fbsetbg -t image #this is just a bit of eyecandy did that but no background changed. > exec evilwm -term aterm > Then, to open a terminal ctrl+alt+ return No border. :-( > To move it around, the same commands as vi (with ctl+alt) l for right, h > for left j for down k for up. A few other things as well. And to resize? How about borders? So what is good about that WM? smaller memory footprint? From scottro Thu Aug 11 23:42:57 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:42:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050811230816.R58509@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> <20050811230816.R58509@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050812034257.GA43707@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 11:11:11PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >fbsetbg -t image #this is just a bit of eyecandy > > did that but no background changed. Hrrm, odd. Try it when the wm is running and see what happens. > > >exec evilwm -term aterm > > >Then, to open a terminal ctrl+alt+ return > > No border. :-( There's a 1 pixel border by default--if you put in my commands as I typed it, I think that made it borderless. > > >To move it around, the same commands as vi (with ctl+alt) l for right, h > >for left j for down k for up. A few other things as well. > > And to resize? > How about borders? When you start it, in .xinitrc you can specify border width with a -bw option. There's a maximize toggle. Resize is a mouse button thing http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/usage.shtml > > So what is good about that WM? smaller memory footprint? Smaller than flux, certainly. It was ok, but didn't move me that much. As for the fbsetbg, that is assuming that a) you have fluxbox installed and b) feh or something else that can do the background. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Mayor Wilkins: She's pretty, Angel. A little skinny. Still don't understand why it couldn't work out with you and my Faith. I guess you kinda just have strange tastes in women. Angel: Yeah, well, what can I say? I like 'em sane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC/BrB+lTVdes0Z9YRAssXAJwI5jHo0CGpVXm523Pg6EFpFFSS+QCfcQW8 OEMAd/ujQcr37CxEHnO22Q4= =XDer -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Thu Aug 11 23:45:02 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:45:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More on gmail and mailing lists In-Reply-To: References: <20050808193140.GA61843@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050809072408.GB9103@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Message-ID: <20050812034502.GB43707@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 10:12:43PM -0400, Jonathan Franks wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2005, at 3:24 AM, David Rio Deiros wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 08, 2005 at 03:31:40PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > I sent a feature request to them--I'll keep you guys posted of any > answers. > > > > Thanks Scott. > > > Yes... thank you. This has been eating away at my insides for months now. (okay > not quite, but it freaked me out a bit when I first switched to gmail for > CDBUG) Well, they haven't answered me. I guess they consider it a good feature. Actually, it's not a disasterous one. If you're using mutt, and save your sent mail, you have a copy. However, yes it's a nuisance, because you don't know if the list has received it, and I hope that they at least allow you the option. Maybe I'll write again with a, "Ok, if you don't wanna do that, how about giving me the option of whether I want to do it or not?" - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike: Should I really trust you? Adam: Scout's honor. Spike: You were a Boy Scout? Adam: Parts of me. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC/Bs++lTVdes0Z9YRAi7nAJ9Zm1KNzzhuhYNOaUglWLuyhuC0ZQCcCrZb Ovcq1Tk7Fibn4Hmm76Tcc+Y= =wvaA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Fri Aug 12 00:54:18 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:54:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:37:24PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >Replacement bad, break scripts etc.... I'd be happy with a backwords compatable ps upgrade. even a wrapper could do it with a little work... >/usr/pkgsrc/sysutild/pstree good, installs as proctree so there is no confusion. I find that terribly hard to read compaired to my example, and with few switches to adjust output. >lsof -i4 is damm close, if i read the man page I could probably get >the proc name as well. that is a fine replacement... thanks. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From nomadlogic Fri Aug 12 11:08:31 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:08:31 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> Message-ID: <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> On 8/11/05, George Georgalis wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:37:24PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > >Replacement bad, break scripts etc.... > > I'd be happy with a backwords compatable ps upgrade. > even a wrapper could do it with a little work... > > >/usr/pkgsrc/sysutild/pstree good, installs as proctree so there is no > confusion. > > I find that terribly hard to read compaired to my example, and with few > switches to adjust output. george, i know you have brought up this before. have you checked out possibly porting gnu's "ps" to bsd? just curious... -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050812/aea4254f/attachment.html From ike Fri Aug 12 11:36:25 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:36:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ShmooCon 2006 In-Reply-To: <42F8FEEC.7070805@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <42F8FEEC.7070805@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <04A256BB-D6BD-4205-A279-23BDB10B308A@lesmuug.org> Thanks Kevin, On Aug 9, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > For those who didn't know, registration is now open. > > This year's dates are January 13-15, 2006, in Washington, D.C. > > Registration: > http://www.shmoocon.org/registration.html > > > -Kev I'll endorse this one BIG TIME- last year ROCKED, one of the best conferences I've ever been to. Think DefCon, but on the east coast, with way less debauchery and WAY MORE MEATY CONTENT. Everyone Register!!!!! Rocket- .ike From ike Fri Aug 12 11:44:48 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:44:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" Message-ID: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> Hi All, FYI- Today in The Register (UK), "NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/12/ny_security_breaches_disclosure/ Rocket, .ike From mikel.king Fri Aug 12 11:52:33 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:52:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" In-Reply-To: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> References: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <71F66732-AA6B-47F4-90E6-A84DE02B7D32@ocsny.com> Thanks Ike! Hope all is well. On Aug 12, 2005, at 11:44 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi All, > > FYI- Today in The Register (UK), > > "NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/12/ > ny_security_breaches_disclosure/ > > Rocket, > .ike > > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From mspitzer Fri Aug 12 13:48:52 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:48:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305081210482f526910@mail.gmail.com> On 8/12/05, pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/11/05, George Georgalis wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:37:24PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > > > >Replacement bad, break scripts etc.... > > > > I'd be happy with a backwords compatable ps upgrade. > > even a wrapper could do it with a little work... > > > > >/usr/pkgsrc/sysutild/pstree good, installs as proctree so there is no > confusion. > > > > I find that terribly hard to read compaired to my example, and with few > > switches to adjust output. > > george, i know you have brought up this before. have you checked out > possibly porting gnu's "ps" to bsd? just curious... If I remember correctly gnu ps is systemV not bsd for the most part, could not find an on line man page for it. To make it a drop in replacement would be a lot of work over a long time. It would have to be kept in sync after all. If you really want this functionality it would be better to add it to the current ps and submit a patch to the maintainers. That way it is their job to keep up with it not yours. marc From jpb Fri Aug 12 13:59:00 2005 From: jpb (Jim Brown) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:59:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" In-Reply-To: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> References: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20050812175900.GA80462@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> * Isaac Levy [2005-08-12 11:44]: > Hi All, > > FYI- Today in The Register (UK), > > "NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/12/ny_security_breaches_disclosure/ > > Rocket, > .ike > Does anyone have a pointer to the actual legislation? Thanks, Jim B. From tillman Fri Aug 12 15:52:30 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:52:30 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nfs client fbsd 5.4 In-Reply-To: <20050811204728.GA73560@neuropunks.org> References: <8134C3B2-3320-4164-B709-31BD5BC789A4@tbwachiat.com> <57d710000508111312d5fec66@mail.gmail.com> <20050811204728.GA73560@neuropunks.org> Message-ID: <20050812195230.GB95605@seekingfire.com> On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 03:47:28PM -0500, max wrote: > On top of this, may be you should consider afs or coda? NFS is pretty slow usually. > migration is a pain, but it would be worth it. I'm a huge fan of Kerberos-enabled technologies like AFS, but it's not going to work well on FreeBSD. OpenAFS is in the "you might get it compile and run without crashing. Maybe." stage of the game. I'd love to use OpenAFS for distributed portions of my file serving infrastructure but I basically have to migrate to RHES to get the sort of community support that I'd need. FreeBSD seems to be a second or third tier platform with that project. NFS is both well-understood and fast when tuned properly. I have posted some benchmarks to various FreeBSD mailing lists that google should be able to turn up. Interestingly, it's possible to get faster-than-wire-speed file transfer with NFS if one uses IPsec in transport mode running both compression and a low-CPU-overhead encryption like blowfish. That particualr example is from a UltraSparc 5 client running 5.x to an Intel celeron 900 running 4.11, so we're definitely not talking about fast or modern CPUs. It hit about 105% of wirespeed if memory serves correctly. -T -- Painted cakes are real, too. Dogen From jfreeman Fri Aug 12 16:07:11 2005 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:07:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record Message-ID: So, this dual boot Thinkpad... I had FreeBSD nicely installed on the first partition last week.. This week I installed XP Pro on the second... I believe there is stuff I can do in XP so that when the machine starts up I can either go into FreeBSD or XP but I have no idea what that might be... Anyone here have experience with this? J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From george Fri Aug 12 16:12:45 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:12:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050812201245.GA26111@sta.duo> On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 08:08:31AM -0700, pete wright wrote: >On 8/11/05, George Georgalis wrote: >> > >george, i know you have brought up this before. have you checked out >possibly porting gnu's "ps" to bsd? just curious... I forgot, if I did bring it up before... yeah, but (asside from the other work things I need to do) I'd prefer making a fix in the main line vs a port. That means avoiding gnu code. Since what I want is as nominal as my c experience, I could do it in maybe a month if I'm not disturbed, ;) I migh make a patch to pstree that changes the output format, that would certainly be easier... // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From george Fri Aug 12 16:16:08 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:16:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42FD0388.8020207@sddi.net> Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > So, this dual boot Thinkpad... > > I had FreeBSD nicely installed on the first partition last week.. This week > I installed XP Pro on the second... > > I believe there is stuff I can do in XP so that when the machine starts up I > can either go into FreeBSD or XP but I have no idea what that might be... > Anyone here have experience with this? > > J. MS always takes over your boot partition, which is why everyone stated that Windows should be installed first and FBSD second, so you could choose FBSD's boot manager for the OS selection. I would just reinstall FBSD again on the partition for FBSD. It's probably the simplest and quickest solution. g From j Fri Aug 12 16:20:42 2005 From: j (Freeman, Joshua) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:20:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record Message-ID: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106C8@xmail.nybg.org> doh! Thanks George... I guess it was as an afterthought that I decided to re-install XP with our version rather than with the pre-installed version.. installing FreeBSD should be a breeze now.. Thanks! J. Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org -----Original Message----- From: George R. [mailto:george at sddi.net] Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 4:16 PM To: Freeman, Joshua Cc: NYCBUG discussion list Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > So, this dual boot Thinkpad... > > I had FreeBSD nicely installed on the first partition last week.. This week > I installed XP Pro on the second... > > I believe there is stuff I can do in XP so that when the machine starts up I > can either go into FreeBSD or XP but I have no idea what that might be... > Anyone here have experience with this? > > J. MS always takes over your boot partition, which is why everyone stated that Windows should be installed first and FBSD second, so you could choose FBSD's boot manager for the OS selection. I would just reinstall FBSD again on the partition for FBSD. It's probably the simplest and quickest solution. g -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050812/967102fd/attachment.html From george Fri Aug 12 16:25:43 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:25:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" In-Reply-To: <20050812175900.GA80462@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> References: <47DFC546-6DAB-4A55-BBBB-0E8944ECD1E5@lesmuug.org> <20050812175900.GA80462@sixshooter.v6.thrupoint.net> Message-ID: <20050812202543.GB26111@sta.duo> On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 01:59:00PM -0400, Jim Brown wrote: >* Isaac Levy [2005-08-12 11:44]: >> Hi All, >> >> FYI- Today in The Register (UK), >> >> "NY enacts security breaches disclosure law" >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/12/ny_security_breaches_disclosure/ >> >> Rocket, >> .ike >> Whoo Hoo! ...seems to have passed March 8, 2005, and effective 19 days later. >Does anyone have a pointer to the actual legislation? I think it's one or both of these and enclosed links http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A01525&amp;sh=t http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S03141&amp;sh=t surprisingly short! see also http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/CIP/priv/breach.htm // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From nomadlogic Fri Aug 12 16:28:12 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:28:12 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <20050812201245.GA26111@sta.duo> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> <20050812201245.GA26111@sta.duo> Message-ID: <57d7100005081213285245d02a@mail.gmail.com> On 8/12/05, George Georgalis wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 08:08:31AM -0700, pete wright wrote: > >On 8/11/05, George Georgalis wrote: > >> > > > >george, i know you have brought up this before. have you checked out > >possibly porting gnu's "ps" to bsd? just curious... > > I forgot, if I did bring it up before... yeah, but (asside from the > other work things I need to do) I'd prefer making a fix in the main > line vs a port. That means avoiding gnu code. Since what I want is as > nominal as my c experience, I could do it in maybe a month if I'm not > disturbed, ;) > > I migh make a patch to pstree that changes the output format, that would > certainly be easier... yea that'd probably be the way to go, i'm not sure i would personally want BSD "ps" changed to mimick gnu "ps" at all though, and i'm sure there are others who would feel the same way. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050812/c97c1517/attachment.html From george Fri Aug 12 17:09:01 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:09:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ports. . . In-Reply-To: <57d7100005081213285245d02a@mail.gmail.com> References: <42F95C38.6010508@sddi.net> <20050811022147.GB28180@nitrogen.khaoz.org> <20050811025025.GB946@sta.duo> <8c50a3c305081115371d2e04a2@mail.gmail.com> <20050812045418.GA17717@sta.duo> <57d71000050812080813ad2de6@mail.gmail.com> <20050812201245.GA26111@sta.duo> <57d7100005081213285245d02a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050812210901.GC26732@sta.duo> On Fri, Aug 12, 2005 at 01:28:12PM -0700, pete wright wrote: >On 8/12/05, George Georgalis wrote: > >yea that'd probably be the way to go, i'm not sure i would personally want >BSD "ps" changed to mimick gnu "ps" at all though, and i'm sure there are >others who would feel the same way. > This is a question, not an opinion. What harm would adding the an 'f' (forest, a la pstree) output switch, cause to bsd ps? I don't know that anything else would be required -- just a little work to take the "ps -axwo pid,user,ppid,command" output and make some ascii art from the ppid (a little hierchy art is inserted at the front of the "command" output string). // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From tux Fri Aug 12 17:50:25 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 17:50:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106C8@xmail.nybg.org> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106C8@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <42FD19A1.4030104@penguinnetwerx.net> Freeman, Joshua wrote: > doh! > > Thanks George... I guess it was as an afterthought that I decided to > re-install XP with our version rather than with the pre-installed version.. > > installing FreeBSD should be a breeze now.. You can also install gag as opposed to reinstalling FreeBSD - I use it exclusively for boot managers when running multiple O/S's on a box. (You can even use icons on the GUI menu - makes it look purdy compared to the BSD-supplied ones.) http://gag.sourceforge.net -Kev From dan Fri Aug 12 18:01:51 2005 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:01:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: <42FD19A1.4030104@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106C8@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <42FCE40F.2905.C521C26@localhost> On 12 Aug 2005 at 17:50, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Freeman, Joshua wrote: > > doh! > > > > Thanks George... I guess it was as an afterthought that I decided to > > re-install XP with our version rather than with the pre-installed version.. > > > > installing FreeBSD should be a breeze now.. > > You can also install gag as opposed to reinstalling FreeBSD - I use it > exclusively for boot managers when running multiple O/S's on a box. (You > can even use icons on the GUI menu - makes it look purdy compared to the > BSD-supplied ones.) > > http://gag.sourceforge.net FWIW, GAG is what I recommend too. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From klimenta Fri Aug 12 18:06:12 2005 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:06:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from a USB CD drive? In-Reply-To: <20050812025225.5271.qmail@web31601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050812025225.5271.qmail@web31601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42FD1D54.10000@runbox.com> Maude User wrote: > Thanks for this info. > > The handbook chapter on BIOS (see below) doesn't mention "USB" but it > says the machine > can boot from "Removable Devices" so it sounds like your first > suggestion about booting from > removable drives would work. Even if you boot from the USB CD, there is a chance that FreeBSD load won't recognize the USB chipset, so you won't be able to choose the source for the installation media. From j Fri Aug 12 18:28:06 2005 From: j (Freeman, Joshua) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:28:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record Message-ID: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106CB@xmail.nybg.org> LOL well, I reinstalled FreeBSD into the partitions I already had... installed the BootMgr.... that install went fine.. When I reboot the system now, it prompts me to hit F1 for FBSD or F2 for ?? It boots fine into FBSD but it eventually stops booting and hangs when booting into XP.. there's the pretty XP screen and a cursor arrow but not much else.... So.. I would boot into FBSD and then install GAG? J. Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org on behalf of Dan Langille Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 6:01 PM To: NYCBUG discussion list Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record On 12 Aug 2005 at 17:50, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Freeman, Joshua wrote: > > doh! > > > > Thanks George... I guess it was as an afterthought that I decided to > > re-install XP with our version rather than with the pre-installed version.. > > > > installing FreeBSD should be a breeze now.. > > You can also install gag as opposed to reinstalling FreeBSD - I use it > exclusively for boot managers when running multiple O/S's on a box. (You > can even use icons on the GUI menu - makes it look purdy compared to the > BSD-supplied ones.) > > http://gag.sourceforge.net FWIW, GAG is what I recommend too. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ _______________________________________________ % NYC*BUG talk mailing list http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists %We meet the first Wednesday of the month -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050812/c6d1a431/attachment.html From tux Fri Aug 12 18:39:24 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:39:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106CB@xmail.nybg.org> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106CB@xmail.nybg.org> Message-ID: <42FD251C.3070206@penguinnetwerx.net> Freeman, Joshua wrote: > LOL > > well, I reinstalled FreeBSD into the partitions I already had... > installed the BootMgr.... > > that install went fine.. > > When I reboot the system now, it prompts me to hit F1 for FBSD or F2 for ?? > > It boots fine into FBSD but it eventually stops booting and hangs when > booting into XP.. there's the pretty XP screen and a cursor arrow but > not much else.... > > So.. I would boot into FBSD and then install GAG? You can install gag whenever you want - it allows you to update it once it's been installed. I believe there are instructions within the .zip file that explain how to install it, but from my limited memory, you write the image to a floppy (from Win32 or *nix), then boot to the floppy and choose your options there (like to install it to the hard drive, what O/Ss you have, GUI buttons to use, and soforth.) It should remain intact if you find you have to reinstall Windows again, but I like to keep the floppy disk handy just in case :-) -Kev From mikel.king Fri Aug 12 19:16:25 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:16:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Can I install FreeBSD 5.3 from a USB CD drive? In-Reply-To: <42FD1D54.10000@runbox.com> References: <20050812025225.5271.qmail@web31601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42FD1D54.10000@runbox.com> Message-ID: <23154C6E-862B-4CAA-83E8-7A22367553D9@ocsny.com> On Aug 12, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Kliment Andreev wrote: > Maude User wrote: > >> Thanks for this info. >> The handbook chapter on BIOS (see below) doesn't mention "USB" >> but it says the machine >> can boot from "Removable Devices" so it sounds like your first >> suggestion about booting from >> removable drives would work. >> > > Even if you boot from the USB CD, there is a chance that FreeBSD > load won't recognize the USB chipset, so you won't be able to > choose the source for the installation media. At that point though couldn't you point it to an ftp or some other network source... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050812/32fc2555/attachment.html From hzs202 Sat Aug 13 14:52:46 2005 From: hzs202 (hzs202 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:52:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users Message-ID: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> Hi All, Earlier this week there was a thread concerning Gmail and a quirky little function that support which is annoying for mailist users. The function disallowed the sender to see his/her original post. Well I think I found a workaround that has been working for me. If you create a filter for the list and dump in into a *label* (special Gmail feature) you should be able to see your post both in the label and when you download you email. For instance when I run: # fetchmail -aF I get my original post delivered to my nycbug mailbox. It is working for me... in fact I should see this post the next time I run fetchmail. Best, -- Hakim Singhji New York University hzs202 at nyu.edu There is a 20% chance of tomorrow. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 13345 bytes Desc: PGP Key 0x9582C8C4. Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050813/87c43255/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050813/87c43255/attachment-0001.bin From scottro11 Sat Aug 13 16:14:32 2005 From: scottro11 (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:14:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 13, 2005 at 02:52:46PM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: > Hi All, > > Earlier this week there was a thread concerning Gmail and a quirky > little function that support which is annoying for mailist users. The > function disallowed the sender to see his/her original post. Well I > think I found a workaround that has been working for me. > > If you create a filter for the list and dump in into a *label* (special > Gmail feature) you should be able to see your post both in the label and > when you download you email. For instance when I run: Ok, I'm testing this now. Of course, I did it backwards, but that's me. I created a label called nycbug, then went to filters and chose if to nycbug.org apply label nycbug. So, let's see what happens. :) - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: So, do we have to speak Spanish when we see him?' Cause I don't know anything much besides 'Doritos' and 'chihuahua.' -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC/lSo+lTVdes0Z9YRApPpAJ9dC+4cbPJzgtOicl6O4P3aB4mUkwCeLsYA t7Cva1O0eLsh7qqB8+1xJN4= =klRG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro11 Sat Aug 13 16:25:21 2005 From: scottro11 (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:25:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: On 8/13/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2005 at 02:52:46PM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > Earlier this week there was a thread concerning Gmail and a quirky > > little function that support which is annoying for mailist users. The > > function disallowed the sender to see his/her original post. Well I > > think I found a workaround that has been working for me. > > > > If you create a filter for the list and dump in into a *label* (special > > Gmail feature) you should be able to see your post both in the label and > > when you download you email. For instance when I run: > > Ok, I'm testing this now. Of course, I did it backwards, but that's me. > I created a label called nycbug, then went to filters and chose if to > nycbug.org apply label nycbug. So, let's see what happens. :) > Hrrm, didn't seem to work for me. I see it on the webpage in my nycbug label section but I didn't get it in my gmail inbox. Hakim, did you have better luck? If so, would you give your exact steps? (I can't see the label being made before the filter making a difference, especially since it seems as if it's doing what they say it'll do, putting it in the label section. Or, did you add to filter options to put it into the inbox. The only filter option I chose was to apply the label. Scott From scottro11 Sat Aug 13 16:27:38 2005 From: scottro11 (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:27:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 13, 2005 at 04:25:21PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > On 8/13/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2005 at 02:52:46PM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > Ok, I'm testing this now. Of course, I did it backwards, but that's me. > > I created a label called nycbug, then went to filters and chose if to > > nycbug.org apply label nycbug. So, let's see what happens. :) > > > > > Hrrm, didn't seem to work for me. I see it on the webpage in my > nycbug label section but I didn't get it in my gmail inbox. > > Hakim, did you have better luck? If so, would you give your exact > steps? (I can't see the label being made before the filter making a > difference, especially since it seems as if it's doing what they say > it'll do, putting it in the label section. Or, did you add to filter > options to put it into the inbox. The only filter option I chose was > to apply the label. Further update--when I replied to the mail from the web interface, it worked, that is, it went into my gmail inbox. Hrrm. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: Demons after money. Whatever happened to the still-beating heart of a virgin? No one has any standards anymore. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFC/le6+lTVdes0Z9YRAuazAKC302y8ql1omoYoPn1S4A/lQ0WkkQCfWsaZ 3+6/6ZCd5ipSqmXSpyLq1j4= =4sM4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists Sat Aug 13 18:34:47 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508111604672224bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508111604672224bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050813182900.S79430@zoraida.natserv.net> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > Also please keep in mind that much of the open source software out > there is only developed because it is funded, it does not have a self > sustaining mass of volunteers that are committed to it for its own > sake. I would agree if you said "a number of open source projects".. or a "significant percentage".. but "much".. seems to imply a significantly large percentage... What do you think would be the percentage of open source that is funded? Alo you said that once funding goes away the project goes too.. I would have to disagree with that. No doubt that is true for many projects.. which didn't get a critical mass. Of the projects that saw their birth through fundind, I believe that if a large percentage of individuals and companies came to depend on the project that it has a good chance to survive even after funding goes away. From lists Sat Aug 13 18:36:39 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD on a desktop (revisited) In-Reply-To: <20050812034257.GA43707@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050803132759.GA10169@freek.com> <20050803165543.GA1573@zoo-crew.org> <20050807123641.E50595@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050807172148.GC23057@mail.scottro.net> <20050807212801.H53450@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050808020531.GC1452@mail.scottro.net> <20050811230816.R58509@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050812034257.GA43707@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050813183522.X79430@zoraida.natserv.net> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: >> So what is good about that WM? smaller memory footprint? > > Smaller than flux, certainly. > > It was ok, but didn't move me that much. Didn't move me at all.. although a small footprint is important I want to be able to be up and running wiht a minimal level of work.. I find the XFCE port gets me up and running in no time and the memory utilization is acceptable. :-) From lists Sat Aug 13 18:38:43 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: <42FD19A1.4030104@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106C8@xmail.nybg.org> <42FD19A1.4030104@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050813183802.C79430@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, Kevin Reiter wrote: > You can also install gag ... > http://gag.sourceforge.net Another vote for gag. I find it is the easiest boot manager I have tried so far. From lists Sat Aug 13 18:40:31 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] XP ate my boot record In-Reply-To: <42FD251C.3070206@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05029106CB@xmail.nybg.org> <42FD251C.3070206@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050813183924.P79430@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, Kevin Reiter wrote: > the image to a floppy (from Win32 or *nix), then boot to the floppy and If I recall correctly.. the image can also be written to a CD for those without a floppy or who just prefer to have a CD around.. I always carry GAG on my "toolbox" CDs that I always carry. :-) From mspitzer Sat Aug 13 23:37:00 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:37:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) In-Reply-To: <20050813182900.S79430@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <8c50a3c30508111604672224bf@mail.gmail.com> <20050813182900.S79430@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305081320377c64f03e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/13/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > Also please keep in mind that much of the open source software out > > there is only developed because it is funded, it does not have a self > > sustaining mass of volunteers that are committed to it for its own > > sake. > > I would agree if you said "a number of open source projects".. or a > "significant percentage".. but "much".. seems to imply a > significantly large percentage... > > What do you think would be the percentage of open source that is funded? I would say better than half, with no real proof to back it up. This covers paid work, software generated as part of funded research and people doing it to help them get work. > > > Alo you said that once funding goes away the project goes too.. > I would have to disagree with that. No doubt that is true for many > projects.. which didn't get a critical mass. Of the projects that saw Perhaps goes away was a poor choice of words, stops would have been better. > their birth through fundind, I believe that if a large percentage of > individuals and companies came to depend on the project that it has a > good chance to survive even after funding goes away. We look at funding differently, from my pov the above is a switch in the *source* of funding, not a change in status from funded to not funded. A business decision was made by a company to spend money(developer time) to support a product that is necessary, or just cheaper then the other options. I think you are talking about venture capitol or grants. I am talking about non hobby time, if someone gets paid to do it it is funding. marc > From lists Sun Aug 14 00:08:47 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP Message-ID: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> Someone launched a dictionary attack against my machine. Nothing new... However, I always use IP2Location to see where the attack is coming from.. just for my curiosity. This particular IP, 167.206.75.27, was from New York so I figure I would try to find the ISP to complain. dig -x reports ;; ANSWER SECTION: 27.75.206.167.in-addr.arpa. 78337 IN PTR ros75-27.optonline.net. but then dig ros75-27.optonline.net ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;ros75-27.optonline.net. IN A Tried traceroute and mtr, but got nowhere. Not even ping did anything when I tried ping 167.206.75.27 Is it possibly the attacker just spoofed the IP? From lists Sun Aug 14 00:11:40 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305081320377c64f03e@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508111604672224bf@mail.gmail.com> <20050813182900.S79430@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305081320377c64f03e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050814000949.S98172@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I think you are talking about venture capitol or grants. I am talking > about non hobby time, if someone gets paid to do it it is funding. Ok. Got it.. Wasn't thinking about it that way. Agree.. more than before. :-) From george Sun Aug 14 00:13:12 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:13:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <42FEC4D8.4000802@sddi.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > Someone launched a dictionary attack against my machine. > Nothing new... > > However, I always use IP2Location to see where the attack is coming > from.. just for my curiosity. > > This particular IP, 167.206.75.27, was from New York so I figure I would > try to find the ISP to complain. > > dig -x reports > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > 27.75.206.167.in-addr.arpa. 78337 IN PTR ros75-27.optonline.net. > > but then > dig ros75-27.optonline.net > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;ros75-27.optonline.net. IN A > > Tried traceroute and mtr, but got nowhere. > Not even ping did anything when I tried > ping 167.206.75.27 > > > Is it possibly the attacker just spoofed the IP? Sure, that's possible. . . Optonline very infrequently changes it's dynamic clients from what i've seen. And there are enough home routers out there that do not reply to pings. . . From my experiences, these ssh dictionary attacks come from zombied boxes, although it could certainly be intentional. g From tux Sun Aug 14 00:18:34 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:18:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <42FEC61A.2040106@penguinnetwerx.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > Someone launched a dictionary attack against my machine. > Nothing new... > > However, I always use IP2Location to see where the attack is coming > from.. just for my curiosity. > > This particular IP, 167.206.75.27, was from New York so I figure I would > try to find the ISP to complain. > > dig -x reports > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > 27.75.206.167.in-addr.arpa. 78337 IN PTR ros75-27.optonline.net. > > but then > dig ros75-27.optonline.net > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;ros75-27.optonline.net. IN A > > Tried traceroute and mtr, but got nowhere. > Not even ping did anything when I tried > ping 167.206.75.27 > > > Is it possibly the attacker just spoofed the IP? If they didn't, they're either extremely stupid or missing most of the grey matter between their ears.. I know if I tried that kind of attack on someone (not that I would, but if I *did*) I'd spoof the source IP as much as possible by bouncing off proxies, zombies, etc. Normally, from what I see in my own logs (since I'm also on optonline) script kiddies don't even try to mask their IP, mainly because they don't know how to do that - they just run the script/exploit/whatever and see what happens. Adding their IP to my "ignore" list for awhile seems to do the trick most times. Doing an nmap scan of their box for the more peskier ones puts *them* on red alert, and it usually stops immediately (gotta love that :) I'd say if you're getting hit with a dict attack, the person on the other end at least knows a little bit and will try (however feeble) to hide at least a little bit. Of course, I just had a pot of coffee, so I could go on and on about this, so I'll shaddup and let the other folks get a few words in now :) -Kev From lists Sun Aug 14 01:10:53 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <42FEC4D8.4000802@sddi.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> <42FEC4D8.4000802@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050814011005.M98432@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > Optonline very infrequently changes it's dynamic clients from what i've seen. > And there are enough home routers out there that do not reply to pings. . . Not responding to ping I understand.. but shouldn't a traceroute or mtr show at least the route up to that machine? That's what surprised me the most. From tux Sun Aug 14 01:15:42 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:15:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <20050814011005.M98432@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> <42FEC4D8.4000802@sddi.net> <20050814011005.M98432@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <42FED37E.8050908@penguinnetwerx.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > >> Optonline very infrequently changes it's dynamic clients from what >> i've seen. And there are enough home routers out there that do not >> reply to pings. . . > > > Not responding to ping I understand.. but shouldn't a traceroute or mtr > show at least the route up to that machine? > > That's what surprised me the most. root at perseus [~]# traceroute 167.206.75.27 traceroute to 167.206.75.27 (167.206.75.27), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets 1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.306 ms 0.286 ms 0.222 ms 2 * * * 3 dstswr2-vlan2.rh.okldnj.cv.net (67.83.248.162) 9.109 ms 8.664 ms 10.513 ms 4 r4-ge9-0.mhe.prnynj.cv.net (67.83.248.133) 8.353 ms 9.526 ms 9.047 ms 5 r2-srp3-0.wan.prnynj.cv.net (65.19.112.130) 9.752 ms 8.599 ms 8.953 ms 6 r1-srp3-0.wan.hcvlny.cv.net (65.19.96.1) 12.800 ms 12.378 ms 12.513 ms 7 r2-srp5-0.cst.hcvlny.cv.net (65.19.104.4) 11.171 ms 10.786 ms 11.297 ms 8 65.19.104.33 (65.19.104.33) 13.385 ms 12.966 ms 10.080 ms 9 r4-ge-1-0-0.cst.hcvlny.cv.net (65.19.105.134) 11.088 ms 15.148 ms 10.605 ms 10 central-state.cst.lightpath.net (167.206.107.34) 15.359 ms 18.217 ms 17.193 ms 11 ros75-27.optonline.net (167.206.75.27) 17.405 ms 15.383 ms 18.385 ms root at perseus [~]# ping -c 4 167.206.75.27 PING 167.206.75.27 (167.206.75.27): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 167.206.75.27: icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=15.993 ms 64 bytes from 167.206.75.27: icmp_seq=1 ttl=245 time=15.218 ms 64 bytes from 167.206.75.27: icmp_seq=2 ttl=245 time=20.247 ms 64 bytes from 167.206.75.27: icmp_seq=3 ttl=245 time=15.224 ms --- 167.206.75.27 ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 15.218/16.671/20.247/2.089 ms From bruno Sun Aug 14 01:16:39 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:16:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050814051639.GL28132@loftmail.com> On Sun, Aug 14, 2005 at 12:08:47AM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Someone launched a dictionary attack against my machine. > Nothing new... > > However, I always use IP2Location to see where > the attack is coming from.. just for my curiosity. > > This particular IP, 167.206.75.27, was from New York so I figure I would > try to find the ISP to complain. > > dig -x reports > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > 27.75.206.167.in-addr.arpa. 78337 IN PTR ros75-27.optonline.net. > > but then > dig ros75-27.optonline.net > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;ros75-27.optonline.net. IN A > > Tried traceroute and mtr, but got nowhere. > Not even ping did anything when I tried > ping 167.206.75.27 > > > Is it possibly the attacker just spoofed the IP? It pings, at least now. Those are usually hacked zombies. To report, do a whois on the IP/subnet. OrgName: Cablevision Systems Corp. OrgAbuseEmail: abuse at cv.net From lists Sun Aug 14 19:51:27 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <20050814051639.GL28132@loftmail.com> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> <20050814051639.GL28132@loftmail.com> Message-ID: <20050814194514.B20643@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, bruno wrote: > It pings, at least now. Ok. When I tried that didn't work. > Those are usually hacked zombies. To report, do a whois on the IP/subnet. > > OrgName: Cablevision Systems Corp. > OrgAbuseEmail: abuse at cv.net Thanks. didn't know one could do a whois on an IP address. Found some other very interesting paramemters.. too. This will be usefull in future research when research attacks. From lists Sun Aug 14 19:57:00 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Researching ISP for an IP In-Reply-To: <42FEC61A.2040106@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050814000042.D98172@zoraida.natserv.net> <42FEC61A.2040106@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <20050814195159.I20643@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, Kevin Reiter wrote: > I'd say if you're getting hit with a dict attack, the person on the other > end at least knows a little bit and will try (however feeble) to hide at > least a little bit. Most of my attacks are from China/Asia.. If I had to guess I would say over 95% of the attacks I get are from china. From tux Mon Aug 15 02:19:26 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:19:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BigSister Message-ID: <430033EE.1010703@penguinnetwerx.net> All, Has anyone had any success getting BigSister to work OK on FreeBSD? I'm using 4.11 and can't seem to get it to start or even autogenerate the html files (as indicated by the docs). Nothing at all shows up in /var/log/messages, and I've included "bigsister_enable="YES" in /etc/rc.conf. Changed my usual httpd.conf to only include /usr/local/bigsister/www/ to rule out any conflicts with other directories (didn't help, tho). Am I forgetting something, or is there an issue with it that I can't find? (and if anyone can help me out with sample configs without all the extra confusing stuff, I'd appreciate it!) Thx, Kev From hzs202 Mon Aug 15 11:05:56 2005 From: hzs202 (hzs202 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:05:56 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: [nycbug-talk] "The Unity of Unix" by Paul Murphy (ZDNet) In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050813204037f8f9b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c3050813204037f8f9b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050815150556.GC7841@gmail.com> On 13/08/05 23:40 -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > In the future would you considder not posting to more then one closed > mailing lists so that the people who respond to you do not get bounced > messages in there in box. My apologies to the entire mail-list... I forgot that CANYU was a closed list. I was just inspired by the article and hastily responded, again my apolgies. Best, -- Hakim Singhji New York University hzs202 at nyu.edu You will have a long and boring life. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 13345 bytes Desc: PGP Key 0x9582C8C4. Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050815/32656eff/attachment.bin From hzs202 Mon Aug 15 11:07:48 2005 From: hzs202 (hzs202 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:07:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <20050815150748.GD7841@gmail.com> On 13/08/05 16:27 -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > Further update--when I replied to the mail from the web interface, it > worked, that is, it went into my gmail inbox. Hrrm. Yes... that is exactly what happened for. Best, -- Hakim Singhji New York University hzs202 at nyu.edu The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n. -- John Milton -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050815/675ffe1d/attachment-0001.bin From scottro11 Mon Aug 15 11:16:09 2005 From: scottro11 (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:16:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: <20050815150748.GD7841@gmail.com> References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> <20050815150748.GD7841@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050815151609.GD22832@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 11:07:48AM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: > On 13/08/05 16:27 -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > Further update--when I replied to the mail from the web interface, it > > worked, that is, it went into my gmail inbox. Hrrm. > > Yes... that is exactly what happened for. Heh, you left off a word here that has confused me. Is it working for you or not? That is, if you send from mutt, does it get into the gmail inbox? I'm going to send this from gmail (via mutt) and see. Thanks. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I told one lie... I had one drink... Giles: Yes. And you were very nearly devoured by a giant demon snake. The words, 'Let that be a lesson' are a tad redundant at this juncture. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDALG5+lTVdes0Z9YRAiwjAJ41MdflV5aa0KV41kxajLUWDjThWgCePxya ASZpCv6XczqyXvN1jAwP+6Y= =I0yP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From hzs202 Mon Aug 15 11:35:17 2005 From: hzs202 (Hakim Singhji) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:35:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: <20050815151609.GD22832@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> <20050815150748.GD7841@gmail.com> <20050815151609.GD22832@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: "It doesn't work". Only if sent from GMail Web-client. On 8/15/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 11:07:48AM -0400, hzs202 at gmail.com wrote: > > On 13/08/05 16:27 -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > Further update--when I replied to the mail from the web interface, it > > > worked, that is, it went into my gmail inbox. Hrrm. > > > > Yes... that is exactly what happened for. > > Heh, you left off a word here that has confused me. Is it working for > you or not? That is, if you send from mutt, does it get into the gmail > inbox? > > I'm going to send this from gmail (via mutt) and see. > > Thanks. > > > > - -- > > Scott > > GPG KeyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Buffy: I told one lie... I had one drink... > Giles: Yes. And you were very nearly devoured by a giant demon > snake. The words, 'Let that be a lesson' are a tad redundant at > this juncture. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFDALG5+lTVdes0Z9YRAiwjAJ41MdflV5aa0KV41kxajLUWDjThWgCePxya > ASZpCv6XczqyXvN1jAwP+6Y= > =I0yP > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > -- Hakim Singhji hzs202 at nyu.edu "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Weak minds discuss people". From scottro Mon Aug 15 11:42:01 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:42:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Mailist Workaround For Gmail Users In-Reply-To: References: <20050813185246.GA8629@gmail.com> <20050813201432.GA89611@mail.scottro.net> <20050813202738.GA89899@mail.scottro.net> <20050815150748.GD7841@gmail.com> <20050815151609.GD22832@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050815154201.GA23303@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 11:35:17AM -0400, Hakim Singhji wrote: > "It doesn't work". Only if sent from GMail Web-client. Ah, got it. Ok, for now, time to unsubscribe my gmail. :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I gotta stop him before he unleashes unholy havoc and it's just another Tuesday night in Sunnydale. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDALfJ+lTVdes0Z9YRAhQKAKCfDLx2kM1EhnYCAGiIrWaDtRuTuQCfXcoJ 6TF0Mh7omQy2EqKc3VrG2I8= =NEaF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Mon Aug 15 21:41:59 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:41:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] the conference is on. . . Message-ID: <43014467.1060603@sddi.net> Yes, it's being posted to announce-NYCBUG, but it's certainly worth posting here too. . . NYCBSDCon Set for September 17th at Manhattan's Columbia University New York City BSD Conference (NYCBSDCon), a one day technical conference hosted by the New York City *BSD User Group (www.nycbug.org), will be held on Saturday, September 17th at Columbia University. The all day conference will include a variety of speakers representing the BSD projects and the open source community. Highlighted speakers include: Marshall Kirk McKusick, an original member of the University of California at Berkley's BSD Unix developer group. Dru Lavigne, a well-known BSD advocate, educator and author whose most recent works include "BSD Hacks." Dru is also chair of the BSD Certification Group (www.bsdcertification.org). Bruce Momjian, co-founder of the PostgreSQL global developer group and has worked on PostgreSQL since 1996. He works for Software Research Associates (SRA) in their PostgreSQL support division. Michael Lucas, a long-time BSD user and author of "Absolute BSD" and "Absolute OpenBSD." Jason Dixon - As the principal of DixonGroup Consulting LLC, Jason Dixon focuses on solving real-world security and infrastructure challenges with free and open source software. Phillip Moore, formerly of Morgan Stanley, where he was Executive Director of UNIX Engineering as a senior architect. NYCBSDCon is organized by NYC*BUG, a technical user group that formed in December 2003 that has evolved into a fundamental part of the BSD Community. Besides their regular monthly meetings at the Soho Apple Store, NYC*BUG has done fundraising for the BSD projects and contributed a number of useful online applications such as "BSDTracker" and "dmesgd." Additional sponsors include USENIX, New York Internet and SRA America. Members of the press are also invited to attend. Coffee and snacks will be provided throughout the day. An evening party in cooperation with OrgCom, organizers of the New York Technical Community Holiday Party 2004, is planned at a local establishment. The event will be open to the public, and attendees are encouraged to network and meet with the New York technical community. Who: Developers, systems administrators, end-users of the BSD operating systems and related open source projects When: Saturday, September 17th, 2005 registration opens at 8:30 am Cost: $20 pre-registration online until September 10th $40 day of the conference * all conference attendees will pay during the morning of the event as the conference fee is not high, only cash will be accepted Where: Columbia University at Broadway and 116th Street 1/9 train to 116th Street To register and to learn more, please visit http://www.nycbsdcon.org From bschonhorst Mon Aug 15 22:45:26 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUGCon Announcements Message-ID: <53994.168.100.249.178.1124160326.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> Hey all- I'm getting ready to start releasing the information on NYCBUGCon to all the BSD advocacy lists and web sites. It would be good if they weren't bombarded with announcement submissions from all of us NYCBUGGERS. If you already posted something or plan to, would you mind letting me know where so I can mark it off the list. Looking forward to a great conference! -brad From mspitzer Tue Aug 16 01:30:23 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:30:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd/pf issue Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508152230327d01aa@mail.gmail.com> I am trying to update some client firewalls, from fbsd 4.9/ipf to obsd 3.7/pf and its not working. When I have the obsd box up it seems to confuse the network. There iis cluster stops working, you can only get to one of the ips and all the rest do not work. The switches are dell 3324's and I think they are running 2003 on the webservers. Obsd is 3.7, cvs is about a week old. Now could carp, think it is off or pfsync be causing the problems? Thanks marc From mspitzer Tue Aug 16 01:45:53 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:45:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Stagnant software you would like to see actively developed again? Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> We all have cool tools that are no longer activly developed. What are yours? One of mine is the tcl extension Tnm, aka scotty. Back in the day it rocked, and it is still very nice. here is a url http://wiki.tcl.tk/691 From scottro Tue Aug 16 09:18:36 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:18:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus Message-ID: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I posted the announcement to bsdnexus forums. (Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's on my wife's birthday.) :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Cordelia, your mouth is open, sound is coming from it, this is never good. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDAees+lTVdes0Z9YRAl6RAKCPlp8IzSLnIGgfXEP8NE6EYbYcpACeMF79 DXiAIXkt5PJY17Zxovbi5fA= =GQPk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Tue Aug 16 09:34:07 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:34:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] other forums where I've posted an announcement of the conference Message-ID: <20050816133407.GB51778@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On the PCBSD and Desktop BSD forums, one isn't allowed to post to the announcement section but I've sent a note to the admin in both places. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: She's playing you. She tried to kill you. Angel: That was just. . . That was just a cry for help. Buffy: A cry for help is when you say Help in a loud voice. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDAetP+lTVdes0Z9YRAk/zAJ9WmMFVe+o59VhJFERI0JUFMcNE8gCgloBG lixt+nIkIqUwkIvT7nBJEwI= =/IVH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From okan Tue Aug 16 09:35:36 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:35:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd/pf issue In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508152230327d01aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508152230327d01aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050816133558.GD30469@nitrogen.khaoz.org> On Tue 2005.08.16 at 01:30 -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I am trying to update some client firewalls, from fbsd 4.9/ipf to obsd > 3.7/pf and its not working. When I have the obsd box up it seems to > confuse the network. There iis cluster stops working, you can only > get to one of the ips and all the rest do not work. The switches are > dell 3324's and I think they are running 2003 on the webservers. > > Obsd is 3.7, cvs is about a week old. > > Now could carp, think it is off or pfsync be causing the problems? i'm assuming you've looked for arp issues, right? are you replacing one fbsd 4.9/ipf with a pair of carp'd obsd boxes? i'd say, first remove the complexity if there are issue - one to one - then add the second obsd firewall in once everything is right - done a few inline firewall swaps like this. cheers From mspitzer Tue Aug 16 09:50:33 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:50:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd/pf issue In-Reply-To: <20050816133558.GD30469@nitrogen.khaoz.org> References: <8c50a3c30508152230327d01aa@mail.gmail.com> <20050816133558.GD30469@nitrogen.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508160650471f6d4@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/05, Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Tue 2005.08.16 at 01:30 -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > I am trying to update some client firewalls, from fbsd 4.9/ipf to obsd > > 3.7/pf and its not working. When I have the obsd box up it seems to > > confuse the network. There iis cluster stops working, you can only > > get to one of the ips and all the rest do not work. The switches are > > dell 3324's and I think they are running 2003 on the webservers. > > > > Obsd is 3.7, cvs is about a week old. > > > > Now could carp, think it is off or pfsync be causing the problems? > > i'm assuming you've looked for arp issues, right? are you replacing one > fbsd 4.9/ipf with a pair of carp'd obsd boxes? i'd say, first remove the > complexity if there are issue - one to one - then add the second obsd > firewall in once everything is right - done a few inline firewall swaps > like this. yup, and that is what I am doing. marc > > cheers > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From bschonhorst Tue Aug 16 10:08:28 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <50274.141.155.7.52.1124201308.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> > I posted the announcement to bsdnexus forums. > > (Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had > to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's > on my wife's birthday.) :) Cool, thanks for letting me know Scott. I'll add it to the list of contacted groups. -Brad From scottro Tue Aug 16 10:32:33 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:32:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <50274.141.155.7.52.1124201308.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> <50274.141.155.7.52.1124201308.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> Message-ID: <20050816143233.GB52270@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 10:08:28AM -0400, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > > I posted the announcement to bsdnexus forums. > > > > (Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had > > to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's > > on my wife's birthday.) :) > > Cool, thanks for letting me know Scott. I'll add it to the list of > contacted groups. As mentioned in a follow up post, I sent emails to PCBSD and the Desktop BSD forum owners--I just got an email from Kris Moore (developer of PCBSD) that he's put it in their announcement section. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Cordelia: Do you know what he's going to do to me when he finds out I let his car get stolen? I mean, what are the chances that a vampire has full insurance with a low deductible? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDAfkB+lTVdes0Z9YRAhXtAJ4wZLPP4n8FxXhzl0VasO5/BdAchACfbBkh sJtsYyXjynj3F096ItWzTxE= =CAUq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tillman Tue Aug 16 10:59:53 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:59:53 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Stagnant software you would like to see actively developed again? In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050816145953.GR32919@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 01:45:53AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > We all have cool tools that are no longer activly developed. What are > yours? One of mine is the tcl extension Tnm, aka scotty. Back in the > day it rocked, and it is still very nice. here is a url > http://wiki.tcl.tk/691 I've always liked Scotty and Tkined, so I'll add my "me too" to that one. Web-based tools like Nagios are nice, but there's a place for "fat clients" too. There's more info on Tkined at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~schoenw/scotty/. I wish xfig was under more active development. The modal controls via mouse buttons actually works well for that sort of software, and a lot of the recent effort has gone into Visio clones (Dia, Kivio, etc). That's hardly innovative -- heck, last time I checked they didn't even integrate nicely with LaTeX. Xfig with LaTeX was a killer combination for technical documentation. Well, ok, metaplot for graphs too. Metaplot and xfig and LaTeX. And a bunch of latex packages. And automated document generation with perl. I'm a bit of a LaTeX fan ;-) There's a little doc I wrote on using metapot and LaTeX at http://www.seekingfire.com/documents/papers/automated_reporting/automated_reporting.pdf. It's not a serious paper, I was just feeling whimsical and wanted to show a co-worker how to use metaplot (he later automated their monthly reporting for the Unix systems with it). -T -- "Our opinions become fixed at the point where we stopped thinking." -- Renan From mspitzer Tue Aug 16 12:19:38 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:19:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pf login question Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508160919c599ecb@mail.gmail.com> I know that PF will log packet headers in libpcap format, but this has no rule info attched to it. Is there a way to get ipf style logging/monitoring enabled? I would like to see src.port -> dest.port rule# action(pass, block), is there an easy way to generate this or turn it on. I read the pf faq if it is there I must have missed it. thanks marc From bruno Tue Aug 16 12:38:43 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:38:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pf login question In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508160919c599ecb@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508160919c599ecb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050816163843.GT28132@loftmail.com> On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 12:19:38PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > I know that PF will log packet headers in libpcap format, but this has > no rule info attched to it. Is there a way to get ipf style > logging/monitoring enabled? I would like to see src.port -> dest.port > rule# action(pass, block), is there an easy way to generate this or > turn it on. I read the pf faq if it is there I must have missed it. man pf.conf and search for label. From mspitzer Tue Aug 16 12:50:18 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:50:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pf login question In-Reply-To: <20050816163843.GT28132@loftmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508160919c599ecb@mail.gmail.com> <20050816163843.GT28132@loftmail.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305081609501cff3614@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/05, bruno wrote: > man pf.conf and search for label. thanks From lists Wed Aug 17 14:43:00 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > (Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had > to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's > on my wife's birthday.) :) You could come from 8:30AM till noon.. I am sure she would understand. :-) .. although I doubt my wife would.. he he.. From george Wed Aug 17 14:49:03 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:49:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <4303869F.70901@sddi.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > >> (Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had >> to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's >> on my wife's birthday.) :) > > > You could come from 8:30AM till noon.. I am sure she would understand. :-) > .. although I doubt my wife would.. he he.. On that note, we'd like to encourage everyone to register ASAP, as we need a clear picture of attendance for various reasons, including the caterer (for coffee, donuts, soda, etc.) And if you have any input ideas, email me off-list. On the various announces that have gone out on mailing lists and sites, keep an eye out for any discussions. . . George From scottro Wed Aug 17 15:00:38 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:00:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <4303869F.70901@sddi.net> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> <4303869F.70901@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050817190038.GA98655@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 02:49:03PM -0400, George R. wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: > >On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > >>(Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had > >>to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's > >>on my wife's birthday.) :) > >You could come from 8:30AM till noon.. I am sure she would understand. :-) > >.. although I doubt my wife would.. he he.. > > On that note, we'd like to encourage everyone to register ASAP, as we need a > clear picture of attendance for various reasons, including the caterer (for > coffee, donuts, soda, etc.) I'm trying to figure out how to do it without getting a divorce. :) I haven't heard back from the DesktopBSD fellow. It's a small forum, I could just put it in their lounge, but having just been a casual forum member, I feel that is out of place. > > And if you have any input ideas, email me off-list. Pick a day that isn't my wife's birthday. :0 oooooohhh--you said OFFlist. > > On the various announces that have gone out on mailing lists and sites, keep an > eye out for any discussions. . . There has been some on bsdnexus, mainly people in nearby areas, such as Boston, looking into coming. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Anya: Listen, I have this little project I'm working on, and I heard you were the person to ask if... Willow: Yeah, that's me. Reliable dog-geyser-person. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDA4lW+lTVdes0Z9YRAqp8AJ99FAb4zUp7x3azV/ozVgJr+RYcgwCgjT5L vvJlJwiZlx5mqIEFE2Psf3c= =v/mQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scottro Wed Aug 17 15:01:20 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:01:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Announced conference on BSDnexus In-Reply-To: <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050816131836.GA51633@uws1.starlofashions.com> <20050817144204.M63558@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050817190120.GB98655@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 02:43:00PM -0400, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Scott Robbins wrote: > > >(Though, as that's a very casual forum, where we're all friends, I had > >to add the comment that you guys probably don't want me to come as it's > >on my wife's birthday.) :) > > You could come from 8:30AM till noon.. I am sure she would understand. :-) > .. although I doubt my wife would.. he he.. > She may be working--she's a children's ballet teacher, so I might have the day. I have to figure out how to broach the subject though. :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: Dorkhead? You lash me with your words! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDA4mA+lTVdes0Z9YRAshMAJ9zbny8L0ld6rhf5Mtao85fr27TbACfU4o/ myCadMBEuByfq3NDOFyE9xA= =AfNT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Wed Aug 17 20:30:36 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:30:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] media contact volunteer needed for NYCBSDCon Message-ID: <4303D6AC.8020508@sddi.net> Okay. . . . well the word has gotten out, and the story sits at the top of Daemon News and Undeadly, which is great. One extra role that would be infinitely useful is having someone contact various members of the technical press, online and hard copy. Now, granted, as much of a smashing success that the holiday party was last year, and despite the promises of coverage from a few online publications, there was no coverage online after the event. A bit strange considering that hundreds of people networked and drank for free, and the crowd represented many of the best and brightest of the NYC technology community. For this event, as it's likely to be the first of many, it seems incumbent to contact such entities as Wired, CNet and the various CMP publications. Not to mention, it would is critical that pieces are written up by NYCBUG members after the conference. Any volunteers out there to work on this? Email me off list. . . g From bob Thu Aug 18 01:43:42 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 19:43:42 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bizgres, pg_autovacuum on FreeBSD Message-ID: I've started to muck about with PostgreSQL/Bizgres on FreeBSD this week, and I've had to do some hacking that may be useful to some of you: (rc script for pg_autovacuum) http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/pg_autovacuum-rc-for- freebsd/ (porting Bizgres to FreeBSD) http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/bizgres-on-freebsd-and- mac-os-x/ What's it take to put together an article for the NYCBUG site? These sorts of things are probably better off living there than on my blog -- which is generally just code stuff. Oh, and I'm finally leaving Hawaii for SF on Monday.. but I'll be back in NYC in for the latter half of September, and will be making it to the con! Unfortunately I have a bachelor party to attend that night, so I won't be at the after-con activities for very long if at all. However, I'm in town for a little over two weeks so get in touch if you wanna grab drinks or something. I should be able to make the LESMUUG meeting too. -bob From george Fri Aug 19 00:52:25 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:52:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Michael Lucas blog to NYCBSDCon Message-ID: <43056589.5090804@sddi.net> Michael Lucas' most recent blog at OnLamp provides some insight into his meeting that he'll be doing at NYCBSDCon. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2005/08/18/Big_Scary_Daemons.html Good step-by-step on using Netflow and its add-ons for network monitoring. . . g From maudeuser Fri Aug 19 01:29:11 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot Message-ID: <20050819052911.16107.qmail@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All -- SUMMARY: I have a new server which I'm unable to boot up after talking to tech support from various vendors over the phone. Since I don't have any spare CPUs or motherboards around for troubleshooting I'd like to find a shop or person in NYC I can take it to. I'm asking the nycbug list if you can recommend a shop or person in New York who does troubleshooting / configuration / installation for hardware and FreeBSD. MORE DETAILS: This is a 1U rackmount server (Tyan GS12 barebones) from buy.com, the RAM & CPU are from axiontech.com and the hard drives are from monarchcomputer.com. (Detailed specs below.) I have been unable to get it to boot into the BIOS setup, even after talking to tech support at Tyan. Orginally I had registered, ECC RAM in it because the Tyan website erroneously said the GS12 motherboard required "unbuffered, reg./ECC" which I now know is a contradiction in terms (the site has been fixed since I talked to them - I have a screenshot of the old incorrect version though!). On the phone they told me "registered" = "buffered" and they said this server actually requires _unbuffered_. Now I have 2 x 1024MB of _unbuffered_, non-ECC RAM and it still won't boot into BIOS Setup. The old CRT monitor I'm using appears to be correctly connected because the greenish screen "blinks" once when I power on the server, and goes all white when I unplug the monitor from the VGA port - but I don't get anything at all on the monitor. Today Tyan had me reset the CMOS and it still wouldn't boot into the BIOS Setup. They say I have the correct RAM and CPU installed so the next step would be swapping in a different CPU to see if there's something wrong with my CPU, or putting my CPU in a different motherboard to see if there's something wrong with my motherboard. I was really nervous about getting a server because all my life I've just done database programming, and if the hardware broke I always had a help desk to turn to. I've been very confused trying to understand all the different specs for motherboards, CPUs and RAM and what goes with what - and after the past few days of frustration I'm tempted to return everything to the vendors and I'll only be out the shipping costs. But on the other hand, I think it's about time I learned about hardware and OSes so I want to stick with it and get this thing up and running so I can get back to learning PostgreSQL and Ruby on Rails! Unfortunately I don't have any spare CPUs or motherboards to test with, so I think the best thing to do now would be to find a shop or a person in the New York area I can take the machine to for troubleshooting. I'm looking for someone who's knowledgeable about rackmount servers and FreeBSD and who hopefully also wouldn't mind if I hung out and watched a bit so maybe I could learn a few things about configuring hardware and the OS. THE GORY DETAILS: The specs for the server machine are below: Processor Support -- Single socket 478 -- Supports Intel P4 Northwood or Prescott processor -- Supports 533/800 MHz FSB Chipset -- Intel 875P MCH -- MCH+ICH-5R -- SMC LPC47M172 Super I/O chip Memory -- Two 64-bits wide DDR data channels -- Single/dual-channel mode support -- Four 184-pin DDR DIMM slots -- Up to 4GB unbuffered DDR -- Supports non-ECC/ECC-type memory External I/O Ports -- One 9-pin UART Serial port -- One VGA port -- Two RJ-45 LAN connectors -- Two USB2.0 ports Networking -- Two 1000Base-T, 100Base-TX and 10Base-T Ethernet LAN ports (Intel 82541 and 82547GI controllers) Storage Capacity -- Upt to two PATA HDDs or two SATA HDDs -- SATA HDDs support RAID0, RAID1 (for Win2000/XP) BIOS -- Phoenix BIOS on 4MB flash (FWH) -- ACPI 2.0 / APM 1.2 -- Detect function of hardware monitoring -- Quick boot and multiple boot options -- LAN remote boot (PXE) support http://www.tyan.com/products/html/gs12b5103_spec.html In the handbook (link to PDF below), the BIOS chapter says: The Boot Menu allows you to set the priority of the booting devices: - Removable Devices - Hard Drive - CD-ROM - IBA GE Slot 0208 v1216 (LAN Intel 82547GI) ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_gs12b5103_100.pdf Tyan tech support has confirmed that once we get into BIOS setup and tell it to boot from a Removable Device, this will allow it to boot from a USD CD-ROM. I picked up a LaCie d2 DVD+/-RW/CD-RW dual-layer burner at J+R to boot from (and back up onto). I have FreeBSD 5.3 Boot, Disk1 and Disk2 CDs, which I had no problem installing on my laptop dual-boot with WinXP-Pro. Installed hardware is as follows: - CPU: Intel P4 "Northwood" 2.8GHz, 512K L2, 533MHz FSB http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=72592 - RAM: 2 x OCZ 1024MB, DDR400, PC3200, unbuffered, no ECC, 400MHz http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=59961 - HDs: 2 x Western Digital SATA 250GB, 8MB Cache http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code= M&Product_Code=150938&Category_Code=SATAHardDrives Back when I was a Mac person I would just take the whole thing into TekServe, but for an Intel machine with FreeBSD I don't know where to turn in the New York area. So I'd like to know if there's any shops or people in New York you could recommend who would be good with configuring a rackmount server to run FreeBSD. Thanks for any help. -- Steve in Brooklyn --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050818/de3e8874/attachment.html From maudeuser Fri Aug 19 01:33:02 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] (Typo in my previous post) Message-ID: <20050819053302.90235.qmail@web31615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wrong: "Tyan tech support has confirmed that once we get into BIOS setup and tell it to boot from a Removable Device, this will allow it to boot from a USD CD-ROM." Should be: "Tyan tech support has confirmed that once we get into BIOS setup and tell it to boot from a Removable Device, this will allow it to boot from a USB CD-ROM." -- Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050818/b44289db/attachment.html From alex Fri Aug 19 01:39:51 2005 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: <20050819052911.16107.qmail@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Maude User wrote: > SUMMARY: I have a new server which I'm unable to boot up after talking > to tech support from various vendors over the phone. Since I don't have > any spare CPUs or motherboards around for troubleshooting I'd like to > find a shop or person in NYC I can take it to. I'm asking the nycbug > list if you can recommend a shop or person in New York who does > troubleshooting / configuration / installation for hardware and FreeBSD. You don't need BSD clue. You need hardware clue. > MORE DETAILS: This is a 1U rackmount server (Tyan GS12 barebones) from > buy.com, the RAM & CPU are from axiontech.com and the hard drives are > from monarchcomputer.com. (Detailed specs below.) I have been unable to > get it to boot into the BIOS setup, even after talking to tech support > at Tyan. Identify which RAM. See below. > Orginally I had registered, ECC RAM in it because the Tyan website > erroneously said the GS12 motherboard required "unbuffered, reg./ECC" > which I now know is a contradiction in terms (the site has been fixed > since I talked to them - I have a screenshot of the old incorrect > version though!). On the phone they told me "registered" = "buffered" > and they said this server actually requires _unbuffered_. Now I have 2 x > 1024MB of _unbuffered_, non-ECC RAM and it still won't boot into BIOS > Setup. The old CRT monitor I'm using appears to be correctly connected > because the greenish screen "blinks" once when I power on the server, > and goes all white when I unplug the monitor from the VGA port - but I > don't get anything at all on the monitor. I am willing to bet you have "high-density" (AKA 128x8) memory, which won't work in this motherboard (or in almost any intel mobo). Get "low density" memory and see. > Today Tyan had me reset the CMOS and it still wouldn't boot into the > BIOS Setup. They say I have the correct RAM and CPU installed so the > next step would be swapping in a different CPU to see if there's > something wrong with my CPU, or putting my CPU in a different > motherboard to see if there's something wrong with my motherboard. > > I was really nervous about getting a server because all my life I've > just done database programming, and if the hardware broke I always had a > help desk to turn to. I've been very confused trying to understand all > the different specs for motherboards, CPUs and RAM and what goes with > what - and after the past few days of frustration I'm tempted to return > everything to the vendors and I'll only be out the shipping costs. But > on the other hand, I think it's about time I learned about hardware and > OSes so I want to stick with it and get this thing up and running so I > can get back to learning PostgreSQL and Ruby on Rails! > > Unfortunately I don't have any spare CPUs or motherboards to test with, > so I think the best thing to do now would be to find a shop or a person > in the New York area I can take the machine to for troubleshooting. I'm > looking for someone who's knowledgeable about rackmount servers and > FreeBSD and who hopefully also wouldn't mind if I hung out and watched a > bit so maybe I could learn a few things about configuring hardware and > the OS. What puzzles me is *why* people assume they know all about PC hardware and try to assemble server themselves instead of buying one from Dell. You spent more money on parts and far more money on time, than if you just bought Dell 750 server. That being said, we'll help you out. Come to 55 Broad with your server. We have pretty much every imaginable PC part in stock as a spare. -alex From jvanasco Fri Aug 19 11:06:16 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:06:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2005, at 1:39 AM, alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > What puzzles me is *why* people assume they know all about PC hardware > and > try to assemble server themselves instead of buying one from Dell. You > spent more money on parts and far more money on time, than if you just > bought Dell 750 server. wow, those 750 servers are cheap ($650!) eracks.com has good prices too - and come with open/free installed i didn't know about the dell though, i might have to order that. the 4yr old eracks server we had as a firewall died last week (re my earlier crazed postings) - i think the powersupply blew and screwed the mobo/cpu. i've got 3 nics and an assortment of random crap literally held together by scotch tape. From spork Fri Aug 19 14:43:10 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > On Aug 19, 2005, at 1:39 AM, alex at pilosoft.com wrote: >> What puzzles me is *why* people assume they know all about PC hardware and >> try to assemble server themselves instead of buying one from Dell. You >> spent more money on parts and far more money on time, than if you just >> bought Dell 750 server. > > wow, those 750 servers are cheap ($650!) OT, but I see the base price as about $2026. Where's the $650 figure come from? Further OT, but Li at GCServe.com gets one of my employer's really great deals on SuperMicro 1U's. We just took delivery of two 1Us with 3.0 P4, two 36GB Seagate 10K/U320 scsi drives, Adaptec zero-channel raid card, 2GB of RAM and two built-in GigE ports for about $1400/each. Seems like an excellent deal for a SCSI/RAID setup. Charles > eracks.com has good prices too - and come with open/free installed > > i didn't know about the dell though, i might have to order that. the 4yr old > eracks server we had as a firewall died last week (re my earlier crazed > postings) - i think the powersupply blew and screwed the mobo/cpu. i've got > 3 nics and an assortment of random crap literally held together by scotch > tape. > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From george Fri Aug 19 15:40:17 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:40:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <430635A1.6030304@sddi.net> Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: > >> On Aug 19, 2005, at 1:39 AM, alex at pilosoft.com wrote: >> >>> What puzzles me is *why* people assume they know all about PC >>> hardware and >>> try to assemble server themselves instead of buying one from Dell. You >>> spent more money on parts and far more money on time, than if you just >>> bought Dell 750 server. >> >> >> wow, those 750 servers are cheap ($650!) > > > OT, but I see the base price as about $2026. Where's the $650 figure > come from? > > Further OT, but Li at GCServe.com gets one of my employer's really great > deals on SuperMicro 1U's. We just took delivery of two 1Us with 3.0 P4, > two 36GB Seagate 10K/U320 scsi drives, Adaptec zero-channel raid card, > 2GB of RAM and two built-in GigE ports for about $1400/each. Seems like > an excellent deal for a SCSI/RAID setup. I have been dealing with GCS for probably 10 years now. . . and Lee there made a funny point to me once. Customers take it in stride when a major vendor's box has a component crash, like some "high-quality" maxtor drive (WTF is the mtbf? 12 hours?), it's taken in stride. When a small unknown vendor has a component die, customers go through the ceiling automatically. Maybe supermicro is a bad example of an unknown vendor, but you get my point. g From jvanasco Fri Aug 19 15:47:44 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:47:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > OT, but I see the base price as about $2026. Where's the $650 > figure come from? http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/ pedge_750?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd Depending on how/where/what you click, they seem to have different pricing schemes I just searched for "server 750" Under small business, the base config is 649 Under medium business the base is 2026 the difference between the two seems to be about $200 in actual hardware From bschonhorst Fri Aug 19 16:06:18 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: <20050819052911.16107.qmail@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050819052911.16107.qmail@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62752.168.100.249.178.1124481978.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> > Hello All -- > SUMMARY: I have a new server which I'm unable to boot up after talking to > tech > support from various vendors over the phone. Since I don't have any spare > CPUs or > motherboards around for troubleshooting I'd like to find a shop or person > in NYC I can take > it to. I'm asking the nycbug list if you can recommend a shop or person in > New York > who does troubleshooting / configuration / installation for hardware and > FreeBSD. > Although it sounds like you found someone to help already, FFR, the *BSDTracker Resource DB has several entries of places to get BSD service: http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=BSDTracker From lists Fri Aug 19 16:18:40 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: <430635A1.6030304@sddi.net> References: <430635A1.6030304@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20050819161748.V28678@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > I have been dealing with GCS for probably 10 years now. . . and Lee there > made a funny point to me once. Another vote for GCS. Ever since George mentioned them to me some year+ ago have ordered about 4 system from the for clients and 1 personal. So far it has been a great experience. From lists Fri Aug 19 16:21:23 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] network kvm In-Reply-To: <20050714182756.GA7364@sta.duo> References: <20050714182756.GA7364@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050819162044.A28678@zoraida.natserv.net> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, George Georgalis wrote: > I've never used a network kvm, only read about them in ads. George did you get any recommendations from that thread a month ago? I saved your question, but don't recall followups.. at least I didn't save any. From lists Fri Aug 19 16:37:35 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs Message-ID: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any recommendations? In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of directories. So far I see on ports cfgstoragemk-1.0_1 MRTG configuration generator for storage monitoring via SNMP cricket-1.0.5_1 A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system nagios-1.2_2,1 Extremely powerful network monitoring system nocol-4.3_1 Network/Service monitoring software nocol-4.3_1 Network/Service monitoring software Going throug archives see different comments recommending different options, but nothing conclusive... Thinking of rolling my own scrits, but figure it was worth checking first. From nomadlogic Fri Aug 19 16:51:46 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:51:46 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any > recommendations? > > In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of directories. > > So far I see on ports > cfgstoragemk-1.0_1 > MRTG configuration generator for storage monitoring via SNMP > > cricket-1.0.5_1 > A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services with cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). nagios-1.2_2,1 > Extremely powerful network monitoring system also quite good, although frankly the configuration system can turn into a mess for a large number of systems. I would suggest getting a perl/DB front end for it. we monitor a *huge* amount of machines with nagios and aside from having to edit some header files to accomidate our hosts it runs pretty great. In my experience nagios seems to be the most flexible and robust solution going, it can be a pain to configure but by the same token you can get it to do alot of different things (SNMP checks, scripts, etc..). For the type of checks you want to run, this may be your best bet as most of those checks already exist or are online as plugins. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/0b6b2e3b/attachment.html From nycbug Fri Aug 19 16:57:50 2005 From: nycbug (Ray Lai) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:57:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Stagnant software you would like to see actively developed again? In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050819205750.GB15734@syntax.cyth.net> On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 01:45:53AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > We all have cool tools that are no longer activly developed. What are > yours? One of mine is the tcl extension Tnm, aka scotty. Back in the cdparanoia rocks. I'm not sure if it counts, considering it works so well even though it hasn't been updated in years. I'm not even sure what there is to improve for it. -Ray- From lists Fri Aug 19 16:58:17 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050819165611.L28863@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: >> cricket-1.0.5_1 > works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services with > cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). How about cricket by itself? How come you integrated it into Nagios? > nagios-1.2_2,1 > > also quite good, although frankly the configuration system can turn into a > mess for a large number of systems Only have about 15 machines. Thanks for the suggestion. Will take a look at nagios. Does it come with template/sample configurations? Also how are the compile requirements for it? Have, unfortunately, some pre 4.11 machines and right now it would be great if I didn't have to fight with upgrading the ports for all the machines right now. From spork Fri Aug 19 17:01:54 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> >> cricket-1.0.5_1 >> A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system > > works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services with > cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). Hmmm... Are you somehow using your nagios configs to generate cricket configs? I've been looking for an *easy* way to graph everything that nagios monitors. > nagios-1.2_2,1 >> Extremely powerful network monitoring system > > also quite good, although frankly the configuration system can turn into a > mess for a large number of systems. I would suggest getting a perl/DB front > end for it. we monitor a *huge* amount of machines with nagios and aside > from having to edit some header files to accomidate our hosts it runs pretty > great. I'll second Nagios. It is hard to setup, but so is every other app - you do somehow have to get all the devices and services into any system, and that's always a pain. I toyed with Zabbix for a little while and even though it had a web frontend for configuration, that seemed more tedious than editing nagios config files. I ended up doing most of my host checks with snmp, as that seemed the easiest after also using check_by_ssh and nrpe, YMMV. net-snmp is pretty easy to "extend" - I made a few snmp checks that deal with qmail (out of the box net-snmp can give sendmail info). There's even an snmp mib you can walk that shows you all installed ports and their versions, that was kind of a surprise. > In my experience nagios seems to be the most flexible and robust solution > going, it can be a pain to configure but by the same token you can get it to > do alot of different things (SNMP checks, scripts, etc..). For the type of > checks you want to run, this may be your best bet as most of those checks > already exist or are online as plugins. The only thing right now that's really got me worried about Nagios is that the latest version (2.x branch, which is what's in the ports tree now) does not play well with FreeBSD's thread library (4.x or 5.x) and I've had little success in getting Ethan to interface with a few helpful people on -hackers. To me, it looks like Nagios is not doing something correctly with threads based on the responses I saw on -hackers. On the Nagios devel list people just suggest running Linux to "fix" it. So that's all a little dicey. I hate seeing software go from "it runs on unix" to "runs best on linux" for no good reason. Charles > -p > > > -- > ~~o0OO0o~~ > Pete Wright > www.nycbug.org > NYC's *BSD User Group > From george Fri Aug 19 17:01:57 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:01:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: <20050819161748.V28678@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <430635A1.6030304@sddi.net> <20050819161748.V28678@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <430648C5.80209@sddi.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > >> I have been dealing with GCS for probably 10 years now. . . and Lee >> there made a funny point to me once. > > > Another vote for GCS. Ever since George mentioned them to me some year+ > ago have ordered about 4 system from the for clients and 1 personal. So > far it has been a great experience. My comment wasn't so much about GCS than about name-brand vendors versus no-name vendors. While the adage that "No one has ever been fired for picking IBM" is true, at least from my experience, it's also true that big vendors often rely on their laurels than quality. I've worked with a number of very expensive digital video recording systems, and nothing makes me laugh harder than paying $6500 for a system from a large name, only to find that it has Maxtor drives inside. Alex isn't dead wrong on the issue of buying Dell, and simplifying your acquisition. And they certainly have better support than many unknown smaller firms. But for those who regularly order hardware and do system configurations, it's not only usually cheaper, but also you can really know what's inside and adjust according to your needs. g From spork Fri Aug 19 17:05:48 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot In-Reply-To: <430648C5.80209@sddi.net> References: <430635A1.6030304@sddi.net> <20050819161748.V28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <430648C5.80209@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: >> >>> I have been dealing with GCS for probably 10 years now. . . and Lee there >>> made a funny point to me once. >> >> Another vote for GCS. Ever since George mentioned them to me some year+ ago >> have ordered about 4 system from the for clients and 1 personal. So far it >> has been a great experience. > > My comment wasn't so much about GCS than about name-brand vendors versus > no-name vendors. [...] > Alex isn't dead wrong on the issue of buying Dell, and simplifying your > acquisition. And they certainly have better support than many unknown > smaller firms. But for those who regularly order hardware and do system > configurations, it's not only usually cheaper, but also you can really know > what's inside and adjust according to your needs. I'd just like to clarify that Lee will "build" a system, so it is a preconfigured "package" that he will warranty as a unit. In the case of the Supermicro SuperServers, those are essentially the same as a Dell as far as having a bunch of stuff designed to work together. I only specify drive brand/size and processor speed. The thing ships from SuperMicro with the board and everything in place; Lee's guys just add CPUs, memory, and put drives in the hot-swap carriers. Charles > g > From ike Fri Aug 19 18:02:45 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:02:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bizgres, pg_autovacuum on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <653BD85F-9C9E-4501-BA7B-E42BB2637CE9@lesmuug.org> Hi Bob, On Aug 18, 2005, at 1:43 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > I've started to muck about with PostgreSQL/Bizgres on FreeBSD this > week, and I've had to do some hacking that may be useful to some of > you: > > (rc script for pg_autovacuum) > http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/pg_autovacuum-rc-for- > freebsd/ > > (porting Bizgres to FreeBSD) > http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/bizgres-on-freebsd-and- > mac-os-x/ > > What's it take to put together an article for the NYCBUG site? > These sorts of things are probably better off living there than on > my blog -- which is generally just code stuff. NYC*BUG submissions are pretty simple, http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Submission The article from your blog is great stuff to put on the NYC*BUG site, IMHO. > > Oh, and I'm finally leaving Hawaii for SF on Monday.. but I'll be > back in NYC in for the latter half of September, and will be making > it to the con! Unfortunately I have a bachelor party to attend > that night, so I won't be at the after-con activities for very long > if at all. However, I'm in town for a little over two weeks so get > in touch if you wanna grab drinks or something. I should be able > to make the LESMUUG meeting too. SWEET. Looking foreword to seeing you- jealous as hell of Hawaii- bring some sand and sun back... Rocket- .ike From george Fri Aug 19 18:07:56 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:07:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bizgres, pg_autovacuum on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <653BD85F-9C9E-4501-BA7B-E42BB2637CE9@lesmuug.org> References: <653BD85F-9C9E-4501-BA7B-E42BB2637CE9@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <4306583C.4050608@sddi.net> Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Bob, > > On Aug 18, 2005, at 1:43 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> I've started to muck about with PostgreSQL/Bizgres on FreeBSD this >> week, and I've had to do some hacking that may be useful to some of you: >> >> (rc script for pg_autovacuum) >> http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/pg_autovacuum-rc-for- >> freebsd/ >> >> (porting Bizgres to FreeBSD) >> http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/08/17/bizgres-on-freebsd-and- >> mac-os-x/ >> >> What's it take to put together an article for the NYCBUG site? These >> sorts of things are probably better off living there than on my blog >> -- which is generally just code stuff. > > > NYC*BUG submissions are pretty simple, > > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Submission > > The article from your blog is great stuff to put on the NYC*BUG site, > IMHO. Agree. . . and now that we have some good contacts at SRAA. . . this is particularly good stuff. I'm actually going to be grabbing those who maintain postgres from each project, and getting them to work a bit more with the SRAA people in the near future. > >> >> Oh, and I'm finally leaving Hawaii for SF on Monday.. but I'll be >> back in NYC in for the latter half of September, and will be making >> it to the con! Unfortunately I have a bachelor party to attend that >> night, so I won't be at the after-con activities for very long if at >> all. However, I'm in town for a little over two weeks so get in >> touch if you wanna grab drinks or something. I should be able to >> make the LESMUUG meeting too. > > > SWEET. Looking foreword to seeing you- jealous as hell of Hawaii- > bring some sand and sun back... Wait, isn't nycbsdcon being held at your place in HI? Why would anyone have it in NYC? Uh, oh, I already booked my ticket. . . g From mspitzer Fri Aug 19 18:13:10 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:13:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any > recommendations? > > In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of directories. > > nagios-1.2_2,1 > Extremely powerful network monitoring system get the 2.0 branch, dead stable at work and where you should be. You need to not put it in /usr/local, unless you are running netbsd(housekeeping issue). now for service monitoring/trending take a look at smokeping, dont know if it is in ports though. Also most monitoring solutions use snmp, you may or may not want that to be turned on. And while rrd, cricket & smokeping etc, is way cool it does result in data loss by design. You may just want to stick data in postgress or sqlite and crunch what you want out of it, avg and max disk usage by hour for example. I have done stuff like this in hpux using rexec + df+ awk with charts drawn in excel to show the bosses, many years ago, it was not that complex. Happy hacking, marc From bschonhorst Fri Aug 19 18:14:44 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] new to FreeBSD wireless Message-ID: <65429.168.100.249.178.1124489684.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> The front page of news.com.com has an article about FreeBSD 6 and its support for many wireless devices: http://news.com.com/ I have been using an iBook since OS X came about but recently decided it was time to give BSD a try. I picked up a new TINY Fujitsu P7010 and now have it running FreeBSD 6. ( For anyone interested, I documented the setup of my first BSD laptop here: http://plumblossom.org/p7010d.htm ) Wireless support was obviously a must for the laptop ( hence running CURRENT to get support for my Atheros card. ) As someone new to BSD wireless I was wondering if you guys could share with me some of your favorite tools for wireless use. I have been somewhat frustrated with the steps I currently take to discover new wireless access points. To get wireless access: 1) Run Kismet, find some SSIDs that are open 2) Reboot! I can't seem to get my card out of Promisc mode otherwise 3) run ifconfig ath0 ssid = ENTERNAME (other commands as needed) 4) run dhclient Are there any other options, I'd like to avoid rebooting after running Kismet. I feel like I must be missing something. ifconfig destroy won't work for some reason, I'm guessing its because the entry comes from Kismet rather than the ifconfig create command. Any other tools to see what access points are floating around out there? I understand the bsd airtools contains dstumbler but it won't work with the Atheros chipset. Curious though, do you need to reboot after using dstumbler? Thanks all! Brad From nomadlogic Fri Aug 19 18:26:00 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:26:00 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57d7100005081915261fdbce65@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/05, Charles Sprickman wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >> > >> cricket-1.0.5_1 > >> A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system > > > > works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services with > > cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). > > Hmmm... Are you somehow using your nagios configs to generate cricket > configs? I've been looking for an *easy* way to graph everything that > nagios monitors. yea i totally mispoke there, we have our cricket graph's intergrated into nagio's web interface. the cricket checks run via cron i believe. > > In my experience nagios seems to be the most flexible and robust > solution > > going, it can be a pain to configure but by the same token you can get > it to > > do alot of different things (SNMP checks, scripts, etc..). For the type > of > > checks you want to run, this may be your best bet as most of those > checks > > already exist or are online as plugins. > > The only thing right now that's really got me worried about Nagios is that > the latest version (2.x branch, which is what's in the ports tree now) > does not play well with FreeBSD's thread library (4.x or 5.x) and I've had > little success in getting Ethan to interface with a few helpful people on > -hackers. To me, it looks like Nagios is not doing something correctly > with threads based on the responses I saw on -hackers. On the Nagios > devel list people just suggest running Linux to "fix" it. So that's all a > little dicey. I hate seeing software go from "it runs on unix" to "runs > best on linux" for no good reason. yea i'll second those concerns with the nagios 2.x branch. i've also found the mailing lists to be...ummm...how should I say it, not up to par ;) although this may be due to the fact that it's one of the few lists i sub. to that have a large number of junior admins and windows users on it ;) -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/7f9dce8e/attachment.html From bob Fri Aug 19 19:32:39 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:32:39 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3469EF95-A612-4E73-B98F-7DB0339FAD45@redivi.com> On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:51 AM, pete wright wrote: > On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any > recommendations? > > In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of > directories. > > So far I see on ports > cfgstoragemk-1.0_1 > MRTG configuration generator for storage monitoring via SNMP > > cricket-1.0.5_1 > A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system > > works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services > with cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). > > nagios-1.2_2,1 > Extremely powerful network monitoring system > > > also quite good, although frankly the configuration system can turn > into a mess for a large number of systems. I would suggest getting > a perl/DB front end for it. we monitor a *huge* amount of machines > with nagios and aside from having to edit some header files to > accomidate our hosts it runs pretty great. > > In my experience nagios seems to be the most flexible and robust > solution going, it can be a pain to configure but by the same token > you can get it to do alot of different things (SNMP checks, > scripts, etc..). For the type of checks you want to run, this may > be your best bet as most of those checks already exist or are > online as plugins. Nagios seems to work well, but it's the worst piece of garbage I've ever put into production. The configuration language is custom, verbose, ill documented, and brain damaged. The web interface is mad oldschool and ugly. I haven't looked at the code, but I suspect that I probably wouldn't have been able to deploy it in good conscience if I had (the Wordpress dilemma). However, I haven't seen anything better, so I second that Nagios recommendation. Just set aside a day or two to edit configuration files. Unless you're using something to generate Nagios configuration files, expect to be writing at least 60 lines of configuration across three or four different files for each host. -bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/9984f0fb/attachment.html From nomadlogic Fri Aug 19 20:46:16 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:46:16 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <3469EF95-A612-4E73-B98F-7DB0339FAD45@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d7100005081913512a607c2d@mail.gmail.com> <3469EF95-A612-4E73-B98F-7DB0339FAD45@redivi.com> Message-ID: <57d71000050819174627607b51@mail.gmail.com> On 8/19/05, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > > On Aug 19, 2005, at 10:51 AM, pete wright wrote: > > On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > > Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any > > recommendations? > > > > In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of > > directories. > > > > So far I see on ports > > cfgstoragemk-1.0_1 > > MRTG configuration generator for storage monitoring via SNMP > > > > cricket-1.0.5_1 > > A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system > > > works well for us here, we track a considerable amount of services with > cricket (we tie it into our nagios setup). > > nagios-1.2_2,1 > > Extremely powerful network monitoring system > > > > also quite good, although frankly the configuration system can turn into a > mess for a large number of systems. I would suggest getting a perl/DB front > end for it. we monitor a *huge* amount of machines with nagios and aside > from having to edit some header files to accomidate our hosts it runs pretty > great. > > In my experience nagios seems to be the most flexible and robust solution > going, it can be a pain to configure but by the same token you can get it to > do alot of different things (SNMP checks, scripts, etc..). For the type of > checks you want to run, this may be your best bet as most of those checks > already exist or are online as plugins. > > > Nagios seems to work well, but it's the worst piece of garbage I've ever > put into production. The configuration language is custom, verbose, ill > documented, and brain damaged. The web interface is mad oldschool and ugly. > I haven't looked at the code, but I suspect that I probably wouldn't have > been able to deploy it in good conscience if I had (the Wordpress dilemma). > here here, although you can fix the web unglyness. However, I haven't seen anything better, so I second that Nagios > recommendation. Just set aside a day or two to edit configuration files. > Unless you're using something to generate Nagios configuration files, expect > to be writing at least 60 lines of configuration across three or four > different files for each host. > heh, try configuring it for litterally thousands of unix workstations/servers/compute nodes/switches etc... ;) I'm testing out config front ends now, and if i remember i'll post back to this thread with my recommendations next week or so. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/fb06514c/attachment.html From maudeuser Fri Aug 19 21:11:59 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot Message-ID: <20050820011159.56387.qmail@web31610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Alex wrote: > I am willing to bet you have "high-density" (AKA 128x8) memory, which > won't work in this motherboard (or in almost any intel mobo). Get "low > density" memory and see. > ... Come to 55 Broad with your server. We > have pretty much every imaginable PC part in stock as a spare. I want to thank Alex for his help. I brought this server to his place at 55 Broad this evening, he swapped in some "low-density" memory sticks, and the machine booted fine. Thank you Alex - and thanks to Jonathan for later pointing out http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=BSDTracker . - Steve --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/dc71fb2b/attachment.html From maudeuser Fri Aug 19 21:37:43 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Newbie can't boot server - needs person or shop in NYC with mobos & CPUs to troubleshoot Message-ID: <20050820013743.79742.qmail@web31603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> JVanasco wrote: > I just searched for "server 750" > > Under small business, the base config is $649 > Under medium business the base is $2,026 > > The difference between the two seems to be about $200 in actual > hardware. I looked at Dell 750s and HP Proliants first, but I then saw I could put together: + 1 x Tyan GS12 barebones rackmount server (buy.com) + 1 x Intel Northwood 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB P4 CPU (axiontech.com) + 2 x OCZ 1024MB DDR400 PC3200 unbuffered non-ECC dual-channel DIMMs (axiontech.com) + 2 x Western Digital 250GB 8MB cache HDs (monarchcomputer.com) for under $1,200 (before shipping), so the "a la carte" approach sounded like a better deal and might allow me to optimize it a bit more for FreeBSD. For example, I figured I could go with single- instead of dual-processor because I read FreeBSD's SMP support wasn't mature (which made sense: parallelizing an OS must be hard in a sequential language such as C); and I chose Northwood instead of Prescott because Northwood runs cooler at about the same speed, and the Prescott's hyperthreading exposed FreeBSD to a security vulnerability. The "base" Dell 750 is priced low, but once you throw in some optional (but actually pretty essential) add-ons, it starts to look way overpriced. I was confident that an average computer user could select and install a CPU, RAM and hard drive(s) based on specs published by the component vendors. However, as published information about component compatibilities is spotty, out-of-date or hard for a novice to understand, I've had to return my RAM twice so far. (Evidently I need unbuffered a/k/a unregistered RAM, and Alex showed it has to be low-density.) Hopefully the third set of RAM sticks I get will work! -- Steve --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/4f8cbea8/attachment.html From bpalmer Fri Aug 19 22:25:56 2005 From: bpalmer (Brandon Palmer) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:25:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <3469EF95-A612-4E73-B98F-7DB0339FAD45@redivi.com> Message-ID: <20050820022556.198F9C0A1@crimelabs.net> I'm throwing in my vote for Nagios. We've used it for almost 4 years to monitor our entire production and development environment. We've had to write a web-based front end to edit the configuration files (presently our dyn_nagios.cfg is ~35k lines long). We've looked at other solutions (Mercury, HP OpenView, etc), but none can match the flexability and power of Nagios, not to mention the cost. - Brandon On 8/19/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any recommendations? nagios-1.2_2,1 Extremely powerful network monitoring system -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050819/61ee2156/attachment.html From george Fri Aug 19 23:44:26 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:44:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] problem with zsh Message-ID: <20050820034426.GA22219@sta.duo> something is not working with # /usr/ports/shells/zsh && make install why does it require a manual symlink? ... I tried this on a few systems with the same result. # uname -sr FreeBSD 5.4-STABLE # pwd /usr/local/lib/zsh # ls 4.2.5 libzsh-4.2.5.so # echo $PWD > /etc/ld.so.conf # echo $PWD > /etc/ld-elf.so.conf # ldconfig # zsh /libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libzsh-4.2.5.so" not found, required by "zsh" # echo '' > /etc/ld.so.conf # echo '' > /etc/ld-elf.so.conf # ldconfig # ldconfig -r | grep zsh # ln -s zsh/libzsh-4.2.5.so ../ # ldconfig -r | grep zsh # zsh # exit // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From njt Sat Aug 20 00:28:02 2005 From: njt (N.J. Thomas) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Stagnant software you would like to see actively developed again? In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050820042802.GE28065@ayvali.org> * Marc Spitzer [2005-08-16 01:45:53 -0400]: > We all have cool tools that are no longer activly developed. What are > yours? MIT's Zephyr messaging system. Gaim and its various supported IM protocols are nice, but for me, Zephyr still tops them all. Thomas -- N.J. Thomas njt at ayvali.org Etiamsi occiderit me, in ipso sperabo From mspitzer Sat Aug 20 01:05:04 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:05:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Stagnant software you would like to see actively developed again? In-Reply-To: <20050820042802.GE28065@ayvali.org> References: <8c50a3c30508152245781b9ec3@mail.gmail.com> <20050820042802.GE28065@ayvali.org> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050819220530ed6ba0@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, N.J. Thomas wrote: > * Marc Spitzer [2005-08-16 01:45:53 -0400]: > > We all have cool tools that are no longer activly developed. What are > > yours? > > MIT's Zephyr messaging system. Gaim and its various supported IM > protocols are nice, but for me, Zephyr still tops them all. > > Thomas Why is it so good? I am IM challenged so just curious. marc > > -- > N.J. Thomas > njt at ayvali.org > Etiamsi occiderit me, in ipso sperabo > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From rick Sat Aug 20 01:48:41 2005 From: rick (Rick Aliwalas) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Going through the ports see a whole batch of monitoring packages. Any > recommendations? > > In particular looking to monitor disk, memory and a couple of directories. You might check into http://hobbitmon.sourceforge.net/ . It's the an evolution of Big Brother. -rick > > So far I see on ports > cfgstoragemk-1.0_1 > MRTG configuration generator for storage monitoring via SNMP > > cricket-1.0.5_1 > A high performance, extremely flexible monitoring system > > nagios-1.2_2,1 > Extremely powerful network monitoring system > > nocol-4.3_1 > Network/Service monitoring software > > nocol-4.3_1 > Network/Service monitoring software > > Going throug archives see different comments recommending different options, > but nothing conclusive... > > Thinking of rolling my own scrits, but figure it was worth checking first. > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From mikel.king Sat Aug 20 08:42:29 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 08:42:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Article: FreeBSD 6.0 to target wireless devices Message-ID: <294B2A92-A18B-48CF-8B05-AD70E588952C@ocsny.com> FreeBSD 6.0 to target wireless devices FreeBSD is hoping to move beyond the server and desktop market by tackling wireless devices. FreeBSD developer Scott Long said on Thursday that the next version of the open-source BSD-based operating system, planned for release in September, includes support for "a lot more" wireless cards and for wireless security standards such as the Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA). http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9593_22-5839526.html From tux Sat Aug 20 15:57:34 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:57:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSS now FREE for home/personal use Message-ID: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> Not sure if anyone's been keeping up with this or not, but in order to get some newer soundcards working (like my Audigy II) on FreeBSD or DragonFlyBSD, this is one of the best ways to go. As of yesterday, it's now FREE. w00t! http://www.opensound.com/ From tux Sat Aug 20 16:01:06 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 16:01:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSS now FREE for home/personal use In-Reply-To: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <43078C02.5000400@penguinnetwerx.net> Kevin Reiter wrote: > Not sure if anyone's been keeping up with this or not, but in order to > get some newer soundcards working (like my Audigy II) on FreeBSD or > DragonFlyBSD, this is one of the best ways to go. As of yesterday, it's > now FREE. w00t! > > http://www.opensound.com/ Correction: It wasn't yesterday that it turned free - I misread another post somewhere DATED yesterday :( Looks like it's been free since last month.. From lists Sat Aug 20 17:01:21 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > now for service monitoring/trending take a look at smokeping, dont > know if it is in ports though. Interesting package. > Also most monitoring solutions use snmp, you may or may not want that > to be turned on. Given that I don't know the status of the firewall on all these machines, for now I want easy/safe solutions. > And while rrd, cricket & smokeping etc, is way cool it does result in > data loss by design. What do you mean? They only show the current status? > You may just want to stick data in postgress or > sqlite and crunch what you want out of it Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the output of df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for now.. until I really have time to go through each fo the packages people suggested. Of the packages mentioned (criket, nagios, big brother) any suggestions as to which one is relatively easy AND secure? From netmantej Sat Aug 20 18:20:51 2005 From: netmantej (Tim Jacques) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [nycbug-talk] new to FreeBSD wireless] Message-ID: <4307ACC3.9040500@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [nycbug-talk] new to FreeBSD wireless Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad Schonhorst To: talk at lists.nycbug.org The front page of news.com.com has an article about FreeBSD 6 and its support for many wireless devices: http://news.com.com/ I have been using an iBook since OS X came about but recently decided it was time to give BSD a try. I picked up a new TINY Fujitsu P7010 and now have it running FreeBSD 6. ( For anyone interested, I documented the setup of my first BSD laptop here: http://plumblossom.org/p7010d.htm ) Wireless support was obviously a must for the laptop ( hence running CURRENT to get support for my Atheros card. ) As someone new to BSD wireless I was wondering if you guys could share with me some of your favorite tools for wireless use. I have been somewhat frustrated with the steps I currently take to discover new wireless access points. To get wireless access: 1) Run Kismet, find some SSIDs that are open 2) Reboot! I can't seem to get my card out of Promisc mode otherwise 3) run ifconfig ath0 ssid = ENTERNAME (other commands as needed) 4) run dhclient Are there any other options, I'd like to avoid rebooting after running Kismet. I feel like I must be missing something. ifconfig destroy won't work for some reason, I'm guessing its because the entry comes from Kismet rather than the ifconfig create command. Any other tools to see what access points are floating around out there? I understand the bsd airtools contains dstumbler but it won't work with the Atheros chipset. Curious though, do you need to reboot after using dstumbler? Thanks all! Brad ------------------------------------------------------------------ hello all.. i use a netgear wg511t with the ath/ath-hal modules. dell inspiron 2650 with freebsd 5.3 (4-cd jewel case set) so far i have found: wistumbler2- an x based ap detection utility. nice and simple. it has been a little nervous on my system though.. it core dumped a few times. other than that it detects accurately. bsd-airtools- contains an ap detection utility called dstumbler. with the (-s) option it works well with my (ath0) card. without the (-s) option it gives an ioctl error and halts. kismet- with the radiotap_fbsd_b capture source i am able to capture 11b and 11g. it seems to play nice with ethereal.. i like it.... i have an ethernet adapter in the box also. i disable the ethernet before i enable the wifi. (ifconfig) i have not had to reboot... have a great day.. tim.. _______________________________________________ % NYC*BUG talk mailing list http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists %We meet the first Wednesday of the month From mspitzer Sat Aug 20 20:33:31 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:33:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSS now FREE for home/personal use In-Reply-To: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050820173326842352@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Not sure if anyone's been keeping up with this or not, but in order to get > some newer soundcards working (like my Audigy II) on FreeBSD or > DragonFlyBSD, this is one of the best ways to go. As of yesterday, it's > now FREE. w00t! > > http://www.opensound.com/ it said it requires you to download the software every 4 months and I did not see a licence posted. It did say you can use it for personel use for no charge. I do not think that this is free for a BSD group. Personelly I do not think GPL is free, but that is another rant. marc > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From tux Sat Aug 20 21:40:07 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:40:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSS now FREE for home/personal use In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050820173326842352@mail.gmail.com> References: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> <8c50a3c3050820173326842352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4307DB77.1020708@penguinnetwerx.net> Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >>Not sure if anyone's been keeping up with this or not, but in order to get >>some newer soundcards working (like my Audigy II) on FreeBSD or >>DragonFlyBSD, this is one of the best ways to go. As of yesterday, it's >>now FREE. w00t! >> >>http://www.opensound.com/ > > > it said it requires you to download the software every 4 months and I > did not see a licence posted. It did say you can use it for personel > use for no charge. I do not think that this is free for a BSD group. > Personelly I do not think GPL is free, but that is another rant. The EULA is at the end of this post for those interested. As far as being "free for a BSD group", I was merely letting people know that there is now a "no cost" oss sound driver available for *BSD. Much the same as when people make suggestions on software for a particular purpose. It wasn't meant to indicate that everybody on this list can join together en masse to get in on a deal on a particular piece of software - hey, if you need it, it's now free for personal use. If I have to check every 4 months for an update, so be it. It wouldn't be any different than, say, running cvsup on the ports collection every week, or checking for patches, or stuff like that... Personally, if I don't have to whip out my credit card or reach into my pocket for cash in order to get software I'm looking for, it can't be all that bad, regardless of the license (and who is going to knock on my door if I forget to check for new versions every x interval?). Bottom line: Sound on my workstations/laptop so I can get rid of M$ and replace it with FreeBSD. For me, it's worth it. 'Nuff said. ========================================= SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT -------------------------- PLEASE CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE. INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE INDICATES THAT YOU HAVE ACCEPTED THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. 4Front Technologies provdes this program and licenses its use to you, the licensee, pursuant to the following terms. 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Use, duplication or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs (a) through (d) of the Commercial Computer-Restricted Rights clause at DFAR 52.227-19 when applicable, or in subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013, or at 252.211-7015. (3) U.S. GOVERNMENT EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. None of the Software or underlying information or technology may be downloaded or otherwise exported or reexported to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods. Manufacturer is 4Front Technologies. ______________________________________________________________________________ 4Front Technologies 4035 Lafayette Place Unit F Culver City, CA 90232 U.S.A. Tel: (+01) 310-202-8530 WWW: http://www.opensound.com Fax: (+01) 310-202-0496 E-mail: info at opensound.com From tux Sat Aug 20 21:49:01 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:49:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >> now for service monitoring/trending take a look at smokeping, dont >> know if it is in ports though. > > > Interesting package. Smokeping is in ports. On the 4.11-RELEASE box I tested it on, it kept core dumping, and I didn't get it working well enough using the various options, so I moved on to something else. > Of the packages mentioned (criket, nagios, big brother) any suggestions > as to which one is relatively easy AND secure? Big Brother can be secured by putting it behind your firewall and checking it through a VPN. There's probably other ways, but that's how we do it, and it works fairly well, since there's about 4 monitors for each client through a VPN session - Big Brother, and 3 BASE screens (outside/attack, and various others across the LAN, depending on the client.) .01 x 2 From lists Sat Aug 20 22:45:48 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Performance analyzis/monitoring Message-ID: <20050820210745.B42195@zoraida.natserv.net> 15 days into my first FreeBSD admin job. A lot of it has been learning what the company does, where everything is.. Now that I am starting to settle a little bit actually get to start looking at long term issues instead of all the daily small "fires". Performance analyzis/monitoring is my next big job to tackle. Any recommended readings? So far looked at the tuning man page. So far when a machine is underperforming I look at: top systat -io w swapinfo Plan to re-read the vmstat page (have not looked at it on a while). also have to re-read/look at systat -vmstat too. Any other recommended programs to check performance? Specially to check Swap (don't find systat -swap very usefull either). Have several machines indicating usage of swap over 100MB So far sorting "top" swap by memory and resident size, but that just shows what programs are using the most memory.. no way to tell if those are the ones that actually hit the swap. Also what are acceptable values for w? Looking at archives I see recommendations of 2 for single cpu, 3-4 for dual CPU. I have machines that during their normal operating are between 2 and 5 for their 15 minute average with high fluctuations in the 5 minute. From mspitzer Sat Aug 20 23:18:08 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:18:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > And while rrd, cricket & smokeping etc, is way cool it does result in > > data loss by design. > > What do you mean? They only show the current status? As far as I know they are all using a rrd(round robin database backend) and that by design cosolidates data as part of its storagr stratigy. Good place to start: http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/rrdtool/tut/rrdtutorial.en.html > > > You may just want to stick data in postgress or > > sqlite and crunch what you want out of it > > Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the > mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the output of > df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for now.. If you know postgres, why play with mysql? > until I really have time to go through each fo the packages people > suggested. > > Of the packages mentioned (criket, nagios, big brother) any suggestions as > to which one is relatively easy AND secure? I can not speak for the others but nagios, use 2.x on netbsd) does have a learning curve, after you understand it it is not that bad to add stuff. Also if you want to log events to a db in 2.x you will probablly need to write some scripts to log the info. The db api was yanked in 2.x, after reading the reasons I think this is a good thing for the project. marc From mspitzer Sat Aug 20 23:22:30 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:22:30 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508202022f665616@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > Smokeping is in ports. On the 4.11-RELEASE box I tested it on, it kept > core dumping, and I didn't get it working well enough using the various > options, so I moved on to something else. How did you install it? make install or portinstall -R smokping? It is picky about the perl it uses and some modules, make install is some what deficient in managing dependencies. It has been dead solid on netbsd running on a scrap grade pc marc From lists Sat Aug 20 23:36:00 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050820233058.I43104@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: >> df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for now.. > > If you know postgres, why play with mysql? Because there are 10+ machines at work that use it. :-( It's going to be a while before I can migrate everything to PostgreSQL. The more I have to use MySQL the less I want to deal with it. With the setup I "inheritted", my first step is to understand as much as I can the operation and how everything is configured before I try to make any major changes. From bob Sat Aug 20 23:44:45 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:44:45 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> On Aug 20, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/20/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: >> >> Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the >> mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the >> output of >> df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for >> now.. >> > > If you know postgres, why play with mysql? Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if you can! -bob From mspitzer Sun Aug 21 00:09:24 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:09:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSS now FREE for home/personal use In-Reply-To: <4307DB77.1020708@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <43078B2E.8090309@penguinnetwerx.net> <8c50a3c3050820173326842352@mail.gmail.com> <4307DB77.1020708@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305082021095b60c954@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Marc Spitzer wrote: > > On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > > > >>Not sure if anyone's been keeping up with this or not, but in order to get > >>some newer soundcards working (like my Audigy II) on FreeBSD or > >>DragonFlyBSD, this is one of the best ways to go. As of yesterday, it's > >>now FREE. w00t! > >> > >>http://www.opensound.com/ > > > > > > it said it requires you to download the software every 4 months and I > > did not see a licence posted. It did say you can use it for personel > > use for no charge. I do not think that this is free for a BSD group. > > Personelly I do not think GPL is free, but that is another rant. > > The EULA is at the end of this post for those interested. > > As far as being "free for a BSD group", I was merely letting people know > that there is now a "no cost" oss sound driver available for *BSD. Much Well 4 month download and install cycle is a cost, unless the end users time has no value. > the same as when people make suggestions on software for a particular > purpose. It wasn't meant to indicate that everybody on this list can join > together en masse to get in on a deal on a particular piece of software - > hey, if you need it, it's now free for personal use. If I have to check > every 4 months for an update, so be it. It wouldn't be any different > than, say, running cvsup on the ports collection every week, or checking > for patches, or stuff like that... The difference is the *requirement* to do so. Also if they change there policy any time they want and since I must accept the new policy or stop using the product. > > Personally, if I don't have to whip out my credit card or reach into my > pocket for cash in order to get software I'm looking for, it can't be all > that bad, regardless of the license (and who is going to knock on my door > if I forget to check for new versions every x interval?). or it could turn itself off/nag screen/eat your MBR all sorts of fun stuff sure it can. Think if by installing something you grant rights to collect personnel data and let it be sold. Think legal email harvesting for an easy one. Since spamers are going to jail for using hot addresses a new source has great commercial potential. > > Bottom line: Sound on my workstations/laptop so I can get rid of M$ and > replace it with FreeBSD. For me, it's worth it. I was not arguing with your choice, but with your use of language And as far as the licence goes I really like the use of such a bold threat in the licence, such a good opinion of their clients. I wonder what their help desk is like? marc > > 'Nuff said. > > > ========================================= > > SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT > -------------------------- > > PLEASE CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE > INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE. INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE INDICATES THAT YOU HAVE > ACCEPTED THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. > > 4Front Technologies provdes this program and licenses its use to you, the > licensee, pursuant to the following terms. You assume responsibility for the > selection of the program to achieve your intended results. Further, you are > responsible for the installation, use and results obtained from this program. > > LICENSE > You, the licensee, have the non-exclusive right to use the hardware, software > and its documentation. You may only use the software on a single computer at > one time. You may not distribute copies of the software or documentation to > others nor are you licensed to sell or lend it to others.You may copy the > program for "backup" purposes only. You agree to replicate the copyright note > shown below on any such copies. > > If you violate the terms and conditions set forth, eg, sharing your licenses > with a third party or illegally trading OSS licenses, your license will be > terminated without any refund and we will report any fraud to the SPA. We > appreciate your cooperation in this matter. > > COPYRIGHT > THE PROGRAM IS COPYRIGHTED AND EXCEPT AS PERMITTED BY THIS AGREEMENT, YOU > MAY NOT DUPLICATE THE PROGRAM OR DISCLOSE IT TO ANY OTHER PARTY. IF YOU > TRANSFER POSSESSION OF THIS PROGRAM TO ANOTHER PARTY, YOUR LICENSE IS > AUTOMATICALLY TERMNIATED. > > TERM > This license agreement is effective until terminated. You may terminate it > voluntarily at any time. Voluntary termination by you must be accompanied by > the full destruction of the licensed copies thereof. Should you fail to > comply > with the terms and conditions, your license will be automatically terminated > by 4Front Technologies. > > SUPPORT > 4Front Technologies will provide free technical support for the software for > a period of 1 year from the date of purchase. After the expiration of this > period, you may choose to renew the support by signing a Technical Support > Contract with 4Front Technologies. > > GENERAL WARRANTY > THE SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTED AND LICENSED "AS-IS". ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER > EXPRESSED > OR IMPLIED, ARE DISCLAIMED AS TO THE SOFTWARE'S QUALITY, PERFORMANCE OR > FITNESS > FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE LICENSEE BEARS THE ENTIRE RISK RELATING TO > THE > QUALITY, PERFORMANCE AND FITNESS OF THE SOFTWARE. > > LIABILITY > IN NO EVENT SHALL 4FRONT TECHNOLOGIES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, > INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT > LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, > OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF > LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING > NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, > EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. OUR SOLE OBLIGATION TO > YOU SHALL BE THE REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT OF A NON-CONFORMING PROGRAM IN THE > SOFTWARE. > > MISCELLANEOUS > > (1) This Agreement shall be governed by State of California law. > > (2) U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication or disclosure by > the Government is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs > (a) through (d) of the Commercial Computer-Restricted Rights clause at > DFAR 52.227-19 when applicable, or in subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of the > Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS > 252.227-7013, or at 252.211-7015. > > (3) U.S. GOVERNMENT EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. None of the Software or underlying > information or technology may be downloaded or otherwise exported or > reexported to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods. > Manufacturer is 4Front Technologies. > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > 4Front Technologies > 4035 Lafayette Place Unit F > Culver City, CA 90232 > U.S.A. > > Tel: (+01) 310-202-8530 WWW: http://www.opensound.com > Fax: (+01) 310-202-0496 E-mail: info at opensound.com > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From tux Sun Aug 21 00:10:19 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:10:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30508202022f665616@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> <8c50a3c30508202022f665616@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4307FEAB.4040109@penguinnetwerx.net> Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >>Francisco Reyes wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: >>> >> >>Smokeping is in ports. On the 4.11-RELEASE box I tested it on, it kept >>core dumping, and I didn't get it working well enough using the various >>options, so I moved on to something else. > > > How did you install it? make install or portinstall -R smokping? It > is picky about the perl it uses and some modules, make install is > some what deficient in managing dependencies. It has been dead solid > on netbsd running on a scrap grade pc I installed it via ports via make install (as I do almost everything.) I plan on trying it again once I'm finished with the test box I'm using for another project, which *should* be this week sometime. I'll let you know if I have better luck using portinstall... Thx Kev From mspitzer Sun Aug 21 00:12:45 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:12:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305082021127e94ae2a@mail.gmail.com> On 8/20/05, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > On 8/20/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >> > >> Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the > >> mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the > >> output of > >> df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for > >> now.. > >> > > > > If you know postgres, why play with mysql? > > Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than > anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to > be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 > queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if > you can! what is the select vs insert ratio? guess is fine, just curious. marc > > -bob > > From mspitzer Sun Aug 21 00:25:55 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:25:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <4307FEAB.4040109@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> <8c50a3c30508202022f665616@mail.gmail.com> <4307FEAB.4040109@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050820212551185e08@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > > I installed it via ports via make install (as I do almost everything.) I > plan on trying it again once I'm finished with the test box I'm using for > another project, which *should* be this week sometime. I'll let you know > if I have better luck using portinstall... The version management for the freebsd ports tree sucks big time, if the exec/so is installed it does not even bother to check for version info. Pkgsrc does a much better job in this case. Freebsd punts by using 3rd party tools, portupgrade for example. marc From bob Sun Aug 21 00:49:26 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:49:26 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305082021127e94ae2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <8c50a3c305082021127e94ae2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <243789E0-0230-455E-A82B-090F7CB3B811@redivi.com> On Aug 20, 2005, at 6:12 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/20/05, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Aug 20, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: >> >> >>> On 8/20/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: >>>> >>>> Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the >>>> mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the >>>> output of >>>> df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for >>>> now.. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> If you know postgres, why play with mysql? >>> >> >> Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than >> anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to >> be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 >> queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if >> you can! >> > > what is the select vs insert ratio? guess is fine, just curious. Since the last time we had to restart it (3d 7h): >>> (100.0 * inserts)/all 26.201134462676947 >>> (100.0 * selects)/all 34.751826337623328 >>> (100.0 * updates)/all 39.047039199699725 The updates are to facilitate "materialized views" of SUM(*) queries, because MySQL really sucks at optimizing that sort of thing, so I had to do it myself. Our batches are very small (we try and keep it as near-real-time as we can), so while I could reduce the update count using temp tables (or more code out of the database) for some of the aggregation, it's not really worth it. Regardless of what the usage statistics are, it doesn't mean that: - Deadlocking should happen for no good reason -- which ends up saturating all of the connections and wedges the daemon if you don't catch it in time (we actually had a SELECT query that was locking unrelated tables the other day -- even just other SELECTS!) - Replication should stop without error in a strictly master/slave configuration - Tables should have a fixed size and then throw errors until you resize the table (IOTW: don't use MyISAM, or set the max row length early) MyMISTAKE! :) -bob From mspitzer Sun Aug 21 01:18:40 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:18:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <243789E0-0230-455E-A82B-090F7CB3B811@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <8c50a3c305082021127e94ae2a@mail.gmail.com> <243789E0-0230-455E-A82B-090F7CB3B811@redivi.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508202218340f5c37@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/05, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2005, at 6:12 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > On 8/20/05, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > > >> > >> On Aug 20, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >> > >> > >>> On 8/20/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Today is "learn mysql" day, but plan tomorrow to take a look at the > >>>> mentioned packages.. although I am tempted to just capture the > >>>> output of > >>>> df, du and "w" for now and dump it into a PostgreSQL database for > >>>> now.. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> If you know postgres, why play with mysql? > >>> > >> > >> Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than > >> anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to > >> be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 > >> queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if > >> you can! > >> > > > > what is the select vs insert ratio? guess is fine, just curious. > > Since the last time we had to restart it (3d 7h): > > >>> (100.0 * inserts)/all > 26.201134462676947 > >>> (100.0 * selects)/all > 34.751826337623328 > >>> (100.0 * updates)/all > 39.047039199699725 > > The updates are to facilitate "materialized views" of SUM(*) queries, > because MySQL really sucks at optimizing that sort of thing, so I had > to do it myself. Our batches are very small (we try and keep it as > near-real-time as we can), so while I could reduce the update count > using temp tables (or more code out of the database) for some of the > aggregation, it's not really worth it. > > Regardless of what the usage statistics are, it doesn't mean that: > - Deadlocking should happen for no good reason -- which ends up > saturating all of the connections and wedges the daemon if you don't > catch it in time (we actually had a SELECT query that was locking > unrelated tables the other day -- even just other SELECTS!) > - Replication should stop without error in a strictly master/slave > configuration > - Tables should have a fixed size and then throw errors until you > resize the table (IOTW: don't use MyISAM, or set the max row length > early) > > MyMISTAKE! :) > > -bob > > Sticken with postgres, will look at ingres when it gets ported. marc From cbuechler Sun Aug 21 01:43:46 2005 From: cbuechler (Chris Buechler) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:43:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: On 8/20/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > >> now for service monitoring/trending take a look at smokeping, dont > >> know if it is in ports though. > > > > > > Interesting package. > > Smokeping is in ports. On the 4.11-RELEASE box I tested it on, it kept > core dumping, and I didn't get it working well enough using the various > options, so I moved on to something else. > The version in ports does *not* work well at all anymore on FreeBSD, not sure why. I had the same or similar issues on multiple 4.11 and 5.4 boxes. I'm running the 2.0rc5 version on a manual install. I hate avoiding ports unless completely necessary, but in this case I do. Works great. I have email notification and everything working flawlessly. You can grab it here: http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~oetiker/webtools/smokeping/pub/?M=D/ -Chris From lists Sun Aug 21 13:43:15 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> Message-ID: <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than anyone > should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to be robust and > reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 queries/sec and have > > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if you can! I have 20 to 60 queries per second and MySQL is using up 50% to 70% of CPU. What optimizations have you done that you could recommend? I am just starting to read up on MySQL and looking into optimizations. Our queries are primarily against a single table using index access. We use mySQl primarily in conjunction with Postfix so the queries are just lookups of email addresses. From spork Sun Aug 21 14:00:03 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than anyone >> should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed to be robust and >> reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing ~150 queries/sec and have >> > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if you can! > > I have 20 to 60 queries per second and MySQL is using up 50% to 70% of CPU. > What optimizations have you done that you could recommend? I enjoy it when mysql does this while handling a whopping 20-40 selects/second: PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 60151 mysql 64 0 86832K 47436K CPU1 0 35.6H 96.73% 96.73% mysqld It's bogus of course, the thing is just spinning on something and once it's stopped/restarted it uses almost no CPU. Annoying as hell though. At least these days it can be gracefully shutdown when hung like that. It used to require a -9 to stop it. I need to check out where Postgres is at with replication, and how well vpopmail is supporting Postgres... Charles > I am just starting to read up on MySQL and looking into optimizations. > > Our queries are primarily against a single table using index access. We use > mySQl primarily in conjunction with Postfix so the queries are just lookups > of email addresses. > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From bob Sun Aug 21 14:07:28 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:07:28 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <366A526B-01A9-4AF0-A24F-0E70DF2943CB@redivi.com> On Aug 21, 2005, at 7:43 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > >> Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL than >> anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are supposed >> to be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, we're doing >> ~150 queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay >> away if you can! >> > > > I have 20 to 60 queries per second and MySQL is using up 50% to 70% > of CPU. What optimizations have you done that you could recommend? > > I am just starting to read up on MySQL and looking into optimizations. > > Our queries are primarily against a single table using index > access. We use mySQl primarily in conjunction with Postfix so the > queries are just lookups of email addresses. Try adding a column with a MD5 hash of the email address, and an index that covers the hash instead. Don't bother indexing the column also, and don't bother indexing both, because the hash has such high selectivity that another index would simply take up space. -- the second part is only necessary if you care about MD5 collisions :) SELECT * FROM addresses WHERE email_hash=MD5(email) AND email=email; For whatever reason, this made a measurable difference for us.. but this was a TEXT column, VARCHAR is probably not so bad. Other than that, our queries use indexed integers to find rows. Also, normalizing things helps considerably. Normalized data takes up less space, which means less I/O bottleneck. Jeremy Zawodny's MySQL Optimization book, his blog, and the various presentations he's done are all pretty good. However, make sure to backup regularly and don't trust replication unless you're going to babysit it. Even if it doesn't report any errors in slave status, some of your tables might not be replicating! Try not to get too tied down to MySQL, you might wanna switch too :) -bob From bob Sun Aug 21 14:15:24 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:15:24 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Aug 21, 2005, at 8:00 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > >> On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: >> >> >>> Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL >>> than anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are >>> supposed to be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, >>> we're doing ~150 queries/sec and have > 4GB data in there, but >>> still. Stay away if you can! >>> >> >> I have 20 to 60 queries per second and MySQL is using up 50% to >> 70% of CPU. What optimizations have you done that you could >> recommend? >> > > I enjoy it when mysql does this while handling a whopping 20-40 > selects/second: > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU CPU > COMMAND > 60151 mysql 64 0 86832K 47436K CPU1 0 35.6H 96.73% 96.73% > mysqld > > It's bogus of course, the thing is just spinning on something and > once it's stopped/restarted it uses almost no CPU. Annoying as > hell though. At least these days it can be gracefully shutdown when > hung like that. It used to require a -9 to stop it. > > I need to check out where Postgres is at with replication, and how > well vpopmail is supporting Postgres... Slony-I is probably what you want for replication. For backup purposes, you can look into the PITR (point-in-time recovery) features in 8.0. Basically, the WAL (write-ahead log) can be shipped off to another machine when they're rolled over, and using these you can reconstruct the database on another machine if anything goes wrong. However, you can't actually run the database until something goes wrong, because you can't add PITR logs to a running database.. You can also do something similar with Slony-I log shipping, except Slony-I logs can be imported into a live database. The (only) reasons to consider PITR are that it's already there, and that it's simple to configure. -bob From lists Sun Aug 21 14:33:46 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:33:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0MKp2t-1E6ude0lVQ-0003bT@mrelay.perfora.net> talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org wrote on Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:00 PM: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > > > > Uh yeah. I've had more bad experiences this month with MySQL > > > than anyone should ever have with a RDBMS. These things are > > > supposed to be robust and reliable, MySQL is neither. Granted, > > > we're doing ~150 queries/sec and have > > > > 4GB data in there, but still. Stay away if you can! > > > > I have 20 to 60 queries per second and MySQL is using up 50% to 70% > > of CPU. What optimizations have you done that you could recommend? > > I enjoy it when mysql does this while handling a whopping 20-40 > selects/second: > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU > CPU COMMAND > 60151 mysql 64 0 86832K 47436K CPU1 0 35.6H 96.73% > 96.73% mysqld > > It's bogus of course, the thing is just spinning on something and once > it's stopped/restarted it uses almost no CPU. Annoying as hell > though. At least these days it can be gracefully shutdown when hung > like that. It used to require a -9 to stop it. It's because of the threading libraries - it's a classic thread problem on FreeBSD. Download the LinuxThreads binary from dev.mysql.com and use that. H From lists Sun Aug 21 14:51:58 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <20050821145111.E9052@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: > It's bogus of course, the thing is just spinning on something and once it's > stopped/restarted Is there an equivalent to apache's graceful restart for MySQL? Just trying to do the least amount of damage on the restart. From lists Sun Aug 21 14:55:51 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <366A526B-01A9-4AF0-A24F-0E70DF2943CB@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> <366A526B-01A9-4AF0-A24F-0E70DF2943CB@redivi.com> Message-ID: <20050821145255.P9052@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Try adding a column with a MD5 hash of the email address, and an index that > covers the hash instead. The queries are coming from Postfix, not sure we can change how postfix does it queries. > Also, normalizing things helps considerably. Normalized data takes up less > space, which means less I/O bottleneck. Again, our use is primarily with Postfix. Nothing fancy. We do use it for some apps, but the utilization problems are with the Postfix usage. > Jeremy Zawodny's MySQL Optimization book, his blog, and the various > presentations he's done are all pretty good. Thanks. > However, make sure to backup regularly and don't trust replication unless > you're going to babysit it. Even if it doesn't report any errors in slave > status, some of your tables might not be replicating! Thanks for the warning. > Try not to get too tied down to MySQL, you might wanna switch too :) You bet I want to switch. Just have to understand the operation better before I even consider it. Only 3 weeks into this new job. Have not even got to look at the configuration of each machine yet. :-( From lists Sun Aug 21 14:56:57 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: <0MKp2t-1E6ude0lVQ-0003bT@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKp2t-1E6ude0lVQ-0003bT@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <20050821145635.Q9052@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > It's because of the threading libraries - it's a classic thread problem on > FreeBSD. > > Download the LinuxThreads binary from dev.mysql.com and use that. Will I need to re-compile MySQL to make it use the LinuXthreads? From bob Sun Aug 21 15:01:14 2005 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 09:01:14 -1000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821145255.P9052@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> <366A526B-01A9-4AF0-A24F-0E70DF2943CB@redivi.com> <20050821145255.P9052@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <8C19D098-1A4B-4DDF-AA78-66539369A6C6@redivi.com> On Aug 21, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > >> Try adding a column with a MD5 hash of the email address, and an >> index that covers the hash instead. >> > > The queries are coming from Postfix, not sure we can change how > postfix does it queries. > > >> Also, normalizing things helps considerably. Normalized data >> takes up less space, which means less I/O bottleneck. >> > > Again, our use is primarily with Postfix. Nothing fancy. We do use > it for some apps, but the utilization problems are with the Postfix > usage. It might be trying to do too much concurrency, which would explain this kinda problem. See if postfix has any facility to do MySQL connection pooling, and take a look at how many connections you have with mytop. -bob From lists Sun Aug 21 15:10:31 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:10:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821145635.Q9052@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <0MKp2t-1E6vDD1Mnf-0004cT@mrelay.perfora.net> Francisco Reyes wrote on Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:57 PM: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > > > It's because of the threading libraries - it's a classic thread > > problem on FreeBSD. > > > > Download the LinuxThreads binary from dev.mysql.com and use that. > > Will I need to re-compile MySQL to make it use the LinuXthreads? Most likely not - it's generally best to use the binaries MySQL has built. Depending on the versions you want, go to dev.mysql.com and click downloads, then select the version, and then the version of FreeBSD you're running. H From lists Sun Aug 21 15:13:24 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:13:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821145111.E9052@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <0MKoyl-1E6vG02rDf-0005sO@mrelay.perfora.net> talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org wrote on Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:52 PM: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Charles Sprickman wrote: > > > It's bogus of course, the thing is just spinning on something and > > once it's stopped/restarted > > Is there an equivalent to apache's graceful restart for MySQL? > > Just trying to do the least amount of damage on the restart. Nope - just stop and start it. From lists Sun Aug 21 15:18:06 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:18:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <8C19D098-1A4B-4DDF-AA78-66539369A6C6@redivi.com> Message-ID: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org wrote on Sunday, August 21, 2005 3:01 PM: > On Aug 21, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > > > > > > Try adding a column with a MD5 hash of the email address, and an > > > index that covers the hash instead. > > > > > > > The queries are coming from Postfix, not sure we can change how > > postfix does it queries. An index is an index - it doesn't matter if it's across an MD5 or an email address. > > > Also, normalizing things helps considerably. Normalized data > > > takes up less space, which means less I/O bottleneck. > > > > > > > Again, our use is primarily with Postfix. Nothing fancy. We do use > > it for some apps, but the utilization problems are with the Postfix > > usage. Try turning on query caching. > It might be trying to do too much concurrency, which would explain > this kinda problem. See if postfix has any facility to do MySQL > connection pooling, and take a look at how many connections you have > with mytop. Postfix generally generates a lot of the same queries - many small fast queries. Try enabling query cache. For simple SELECT statements, you should have no problem handling thousands of concurrent connections. But before any of that, get the right binary. The number one problem with MySQL on FreeBSD is that people use the wrong binary. H From lists Sun Aug 21 15:22:22 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <8C19D098-1A4B-4DDF-AA78-66539369A6C6@redivi.com> References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c305082020182fa566e@mail.gmail.com> <627B94A1-DE24-40CB-9A40-1F56B900FFD3@redivi.com> <20050821113857.U8252@zoraida.natserv.net> <366A526B-01A9-4AF0-A24F-0E70DF2943CB@redivi.com> <20050821145255.P9052@zoraida.natserv.net> <8C19D098-1A4B-4DDF-AA78-66539369A6C6@redivi.com> Message-ID: <20050821152133.E9136@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Bob Ippolito wrote: > It might be trying to do too much concurrency, which would explain this kinda > problem. Thanks will check. > See if postfix has any facility to do MySQL connection pooling, and > take a look at how many connections you have with mytop. I already installed Mytop in the worst offender. 150+ connections. Is there any way to see what each is doing? From lists Sun Aug 21 16:12:10 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <20050821161107.D9619@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > Postfix generally generates a lot of the same queries - many small fast > queries. Try enabling query cache. Once I figure out how, I will. :-) Will look t the manual tonight. > But before any of that, get the right binary. The number one problem with > MySQL on FreeBSD is that people use the wrong binary. Will use the link you gave me. Does that mean that it's better to use that binary than the one from ports? From tux Sun Aug 21 16:13:50 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:13:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Building a Jail on 5.4 - make error Message-ID: <4308E07E.3020806@penguinnetwerx.net> All, Just got a new install of 5.4 done this morning, and before I start loading all kinds of crap on it for testing, I figured the best way to do it would be to use jails. So, I pulled up the manpage for jail, and following the instructions, I created a shellscript called "make_jail.sh" with the following contents: kevin at olympus [~]$ cat make_jail.sh #!/bin/sh D=/usr/local/jails/jail1 cd /usr/src mkdir -p $D make world DESTDIR=$D cd etc make distribution DESTDIR=$D mount_devfs devfs $D/dev cd $D ln -sf dev/null kernel When I ran it, I received this error: cd: can't cd to /usr/src/tools/regression/usr.bin/make -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Building an up-to-date make(1) -------------------------------------------------------------- cd: can't cd to /usr/src/usr.bin/make *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/src. Any ideas why it's looking for usr.bin instead of usr/bin ? If I knew which file to edit to correct it, I'd do it, but I couldn't find anything with usr.bin. I'm going to see if Ike's jailing presentation is still on the website to see if that gives me better joy in the meantime, but I'd still like to know what's causing that error if anyone knows. TIA -Kev From cbuechler Sun Aug 21 16:37:34 2005 From: cbuechler (Chris Buechler) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:37:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Building a Jail on 5.4 - make error In-Reply-To: <4308E07E.3020806@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <4308E07E.3020806@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: On 8/21/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > > Any ideas why it's looking for usr.bin instead of usr/bin ? If I knew > which file to edit to correct it, I'd do it, but I couldn't find > anything with usr.bin. > that's normal, there should be a usr.bin dir under /usr/src. cmb at bsd1$ ls /usr/src/usr.bin/make Makefile cond.c job.c make.c suff.c Makefile.dist config.h job.h make.h targ.c PSD.doc dir.c list.h nonints.h util.c arch.c dir.h lst.h parse.c var.c buf.c for.c lst.lib pathnames.h var.h buf.h hash.c main.c sprite.h var_modify.c compat.c hash.h make.1 str.c Sounds like you don't have a complete copy of src on the system. cvsup your src and give it another try. > I'm going to see if Ike's jailing presentation is still on the website > to see if that gives me better joy in the meantime, but I'd still like > to know what's causing that error if anyone knows. > presentation is still up on http://jailing.net. http://jailing.net/Members/ike/bsdcan2005/jailingFinal-forPDF.pdf/view -Chris From lists Sun Aug 21 16:45:57 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:45:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050821161107.D9619@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <0MKoyl-1E6whZ2ffN-0000KN@mrelay.perfora.net> Francisco Reyes wrote on Sunday, August 21, 2005 4:12 PM: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > > > Postfix generally generates a lot of the same queries - many small > > fast queries. Try enabling query cache. > > Once I figure out how, I will. :-) > Will look t the manual tonight. http://www.mysql.com/query_cache > > But before any of that, get the right binary. The number one > > problem with MySQL on FreeBSD is that people use the wrong binary. > > Will use the link you gave me. > Does that mean that it's better to use that binary than the one from > ports? Generally, yes - unless you want to dive into some of the ports' compile options, the binary from mysql.com is typically the way to go. H From tux Sun Aug 21 16:52:42 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:52:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Building a Jail on 5.4 - make error In-Reply-To: References: <4308E07E.3020806@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <4308E99A.4090908@penguinnetwerx.net> Chris Buechler wrote: > On 8/21/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: > > >>Any ideas why it's looking for usr.bin instead of usr/bin ? If I knew >>which file to edit to correct it, I'd do it, but I couldn't find >>anything with usr.bin. >> > > > that's normal, there should be a usr.bin dir under /usr/src. > > cmb at bsd1$ ls /usr/src/usr.bin/make > Makefile cond.c job.c make.c suff.c > Makefile.dist config.h job.h make.h targ.c > PSD.doc dir.c list.h nonints.h util.c > arch.c dir.h lst.h parse.c var.c > buf.c for.c lst.lib pathnames.h var.h > buf.h hash.c main.c sprite.h var_modify.c > compat.c hash.h make.1 str.c > I didn't know that :) > > Sounds like you don't have a complete copy of src on the system. > cvsup your src and give it another try. > That's what I was thinking right after I sent that post. Sources are being copied as I write this.. > >>I'm going to see if Ike's jailing presentation is still on the website >>to see if that gives me better joy in the meantime, but I'd still like >>to know what's causing that error if anyone knows. >> > > > presentation is still up on http://jailing.net. > http://jailing.net/Members/ike/bsdcan2005/jailingFinal-forPDF.pdf/view Grabbed it, thanks! From tux Sun Aug 21 17:46:50 2005 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:46:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Building a Jail on 5.4 - make error In-Reply-To: <4308E99A.4090908@penguinnetwerx.net> References: <4308E07E.3020806@penguinnetwerx.net> <4308E99A.4090908@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <4308F64A.1040307@penguinnetwerx.net> Kevin Reiter wrote: > Chris Buechler wrote: > >> On 8/21/05, Kevin Reiter wrote: >> >> > > That's what I was thinking right after I sent that post. Sources are > being copied as I write this.. > ..it's building nicely now.. Thanks Ike for a great job on the jail docs :) From mspitzer Sun Aug 21 20:53:28 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:53:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pf login question In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305081609501cff3614@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c50a3c30508160919c599ecb@mail.gmail.com> <20050816163843.GT28132@loftmail.com> <8c50a3c305081609501cff3614@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050821175379786fee@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/05, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/16/05, bruno wrote: > > man pf.conf and search for label. > > thanks > Actually this is the answer to my problem: tcpdump -n -e -ttt -i pflog0 I was doing it with out the -e and all the rule info from pf is stored in the 'layer 2' info. Just goes to shown that it is more importnat to read the directions on things you know then on things you don't. marc From bschonhorst Mon Aug 22 10:39:55 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 10:39:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server Message-ID: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> So I've been playing around with a soekris net4801 and want it to send its pflog data to a separate logging server. The openbsd documentation (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/logging.html) seems to suggest using cron to make the pflog into a text file and then ship that over to your log server. This is an ok option but I was hoping to send the data over in real time. Anyone figure out any alternative methods? -Brad From okan Mon Aug 22 10:43:21 2005 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 10:43:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server In-Reply-To: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> References: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> Message-ID: <20050822144343.GB2331@nitrogen.khaoz.org> On Mon 2005.08.22 at 10:39 -0400, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > So I've been playing around with a soekris net4801 and want it to > send its pflog data to a separate logging server. The openbsd > documentation (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/logging.html) seems to > suggest using cron to make the pflog into a text file and then ship > that over to your log server. > > This is an ok option but I was hoping to send the data over in real > time. Anyone figure out any alternative methods? dup-to From bschonhorst Mon Aug 22 10:51:18 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 10:51:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server In-Reply-To: <20050822144343.GB2331@nitrogen.khaoz.org> References: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> <20050822144343.GB2331@nitrogen.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <75577138-6F9E-465A-9549-5AFBB27BB7A2@vcsnyc.org> On Aug 22, 2005, at 10:43 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Mon 2005.08.22 at 10:39 -0400, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > >> So I've been playing around with a soekris net4801 and want it to >> send its pflog data to a separate logging server. The openbsd >> documentation (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/logging.html) seems to >> suggest using cron to make the pflog into a text file and then ship >> that over to your log server. >> >> This is an ok option but I was hoping to send the data over in real >> time. Anyone figure out any alternative methods? >> > > dup-to Perfect! Will give it a try tonight! Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050822/cabcccc1/attachment.html From marco Mon Aug 22 10:54:34 2005 From: marco (Marco Scoffier) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 10:54:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions Message-ID: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> Hello all, I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files (images, videos). I was debating how to do this for a while, and decided that because of the technical naivet? of the uploaders, anonymous ftp would be the way to go, I do have an http upload page but some large files are 750M+ and ftp at least does resume partial uploads. Anyway I setup vsftpd, to allow anonymous uploads and block all downloads (don't want the warez kiddies using the server as a drop off point). But I am getting quite a few obvious warez uploads of 1mbtest.ptf and space.asp which looks like a script to get the characteristics of the server, which won't work because there is no http access to the machine. None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test uploads, but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about this. Any ideas? Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set up a no privaledges account, rather than go anonymous, seems like more of a hassle to risk having a real user id and password, even with really restricted privs, going out over ftp. Thanks, -- Marco From lists Mon Aug 22 11:31:20 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:31:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> Message-ID: <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 10:54:34 -0400 Marco Scoffier wrote: > Hello all, > > I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files > (images, videos). I was debating how to do this for a while, and > decided that because of the technical naivet? of the uploaders, > anonymous ftp would be the way to go, I do have an http upload page > but some large files are 750M+ and ftp at least does resume partial > uploads. > > Anyway I setup vsftpd, to allow anonymous uploads and block all > downloads (don't want the warez kiddies using the server as a drop off > point). But I am getting quite a few obvious warez uploads of > 1mbtest.ptf and space.asp which looks like a script to get the > characteristics of the server, which won't work because there is no > http access to the machine. > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test > uploads, but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about this. > Any ideas? Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set up a no > privaledges account, rather than go anonymous, seems like more of a > hassle to risk having a real user id and password, even with really > restricted privs, going out over ftp. > > Thanks, > > -- > Marco I run vsftp on FreeBSD, it is great stuff. Anon is tough, I block it. vsftp has a lot of flexibility, why not create a single user for them to upload? I set their password using mysql auth, so no shell access. You can use vsftp to tweak their rights. Add group to /etc/groups ftpusers:*:201:ftpsecure 1. vipw and create account including group 201, ftpuser:*:1007:201:User&:/usr/local/ftp/ftpuser:/nonexistent 2. create directory in /usr/local/ftp and chown to new user 3. update the password database, (using mysql auth) 4. test Michael From nomadlogic Mon Aug 22 11:33:13 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:33:13 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> Message-ID: <57d710000508220833525db39b@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/05, Marco Scoffier wrote: > > Hello all, > > I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files (images, > videos). I was debating how to do this for a while, and decided that > because of the technical naivet? of the uploaders, anonymous ftp would > be the way to go, I do have an http upload page but some large files are > 750M+ and ftp at least does resume partial uploads. > > Anyway I setup vsftpd, to allow anonymous uploads and block all > downloads (don't want the warez kiddies using the server as a drop off > point). But I am getting quite a few obvious warez uploads of 1mbtest.ptf > and space.asp which looks like a script to get the characteristics of > the server, which won't work because there is no http access to the > machine. > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test uploads, > but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about this. Any ideas? > Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set up a no privaledges > account, rather than go anonymous, seems like more of a hassle to risk > having a real user id and password, even with really restricted privs, > going out over ftp. I had to do a similar setup once when i was in new york. we where dealing with advertising people, so you know they were rating pretty low in the inteli^H^H^H technology meter :^) sadly the best solution we came up with was using pro-ftpd in a chroot'd environment having users authenticate off a db; then we and had a php coder write a web frontend for it (which was a fricking mess, but the $$$ people wanted that so we did it). they could also obviosly use an ftp client to login as well. having the users *not* have real accounts on the system made me feel a little better, and from what i hear it's working pretty solidy as well. From my research two years ago pro-ftpd seemed to be the best choice for doing DB authentication....although maybe vsftpd and others have that support now as well. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050822/334a8220/attachment.html From jvanasco Mon Aug 22 11:34:16 2005 From: jvanasco (Jonathan Vanasco) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:34:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <4b7ee99882f465af4c90068a740e1d81@mastersofbranding.com> On Aug 21, 2005, at 3:18 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote: > Postfix generally generates a lot of the same queries - many small fast > queries. Try enabling query cache. For simple SELECT statements, you > should have no problem handling thousands of concurrent connections. There might also be a query cache or table in postfix itself that you can configure to have a longer timeout. I believe exim does this, but i could be wrong. On Aug 21, 2005, at 3:22 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > I already installed Mytop in the worst offender. 150+ connections. > Is there any way to see what each is doing? That doesn't sound unreasonable or slow. I think the default max_connects for mysql is 150 or 200, and most machines should handle that fine But bob is right about connection pooling. What's the volume of email that's going through the system? also, you said primarily for postfxi -- does that mean that imap and other mail related services aren't working against this db either? On Aug 21, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > For whatever reason, this made a measurable difference for us.. but > this was a TEXT column, VARCHAR is probably not so bad. Other than > that, our queries use indexed integers to find rows. if you want speed and disk size is not an issue, abandon VARCHAR -- but only if you can do it on the entire row tables entirely of fixed-length records (such as char, int, set) take advantage of an internal mysql optimization that has the record location computed based on the index data. once a variable length record is in there, it has to 'figure stuff out'. at least that was the case in mysql 2 years ago - but i doubt that changed, as its a pretty logical cause and effect. From bruno Mon Aug 22 11:50:36 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:50:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> Message-ID: <20050822155036.GB28132@loftmail.com> On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 10:54:34AM -0400, Marco Scoffier wrote: > Hello all, > > I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files (images, > videos). I was debating how to do this for a while, and decided that > because of the technical naivet? of the uploaders, anonymous ftp would > be the way to go, I do have an http upload page but some large files are > 750M+ and ftp at least does resume partial uploads. > > Anyway I setup vsftpd, to allow anonymous uploads and block all > downloads (don't want the warez kiddies using the server as a drop off > point). But I am getting quite a few obvious warez uploads of 1mbtest.ptf > and space.asp which looks like a script to get the characteristics of > the server, which won't work because there is no http access to the > machine. > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test uploads, > but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about this. Any ideas? > Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set up a no privaledges > account, rather than go anonymous, seems like more of a hassle to risk > having a real user id and password, even with really restricted privs, > going out over ftp. Yes, a few times. Ended up with a nice collection of software. :) I'm sure they test downloads also, if you disabled it you should be fine. If not, just clean it up every few hours and they will give up. Watch for hidden directories, or tricks like adding spaces behind dir names. This is the nature of the Internet.. -bruno From nomadlogic Mon Aug 22 11:52:31 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:52:31 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <57d71000050822085218cfed1f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/05, michael wrote: > > > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test > > uploads, but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about this. > > Any ideas? Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set up a no > > privaledges account, rather than go anonymous, seems like more of a > > hassle to risk having a real user id and password, even with really > > restricted privs, going out over ftp. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Marco > > I run vsftp on FreeBSD, it is great stuff. Anon is tough, I block it. > vsftp has a lot of flexibility, why not create a single user for them to > upload? I set their password using mysql auth, so no shell access. You > can use vsftp to tweak their rights. sweet, hey michael so is mysql auth part of the stock vsftp package or is there some vodoo that will get that working. proftpd's DB auth when i hacked it some time ago was not too fun....what was nice about what we did though was that the ftp daemon did not need access to /etc/passwd, so producers could create/delete ftp accounts directly on the DB. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050822/1d899b77/attachment.html From lists Mon Aug 22 12:49:14 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:49:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <57d71000050822085218cfed1f@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> <57d71000050822085218cfed1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050822124914.14cd5a97@genoverly.com> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:52:31 -0700 pete wright wrote: > On 8/22/05, michael wrote: > > > > > > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test > > > uploads, but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about > > > this. Any ideas? Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set > > > up a no privaledges account, rather than go anonymous, seems like > > > more of a hassle to risk having a real user id and password, even > > > with really restricted privs, going out over ftp. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -- > > > Marco > > > > I run vsftp on FreeBSD, it is great stuff. Anon is tough, I block > > it. vsftp has a lot of flexibility, why not create a single user for > > them to upload? I set their password using mysql auth, so no shell > > access. You can use vsftp to tweak their rights. > > > > sweet, hey michael so is mysql auth part of the stock vsftp package or > is there some vodoo that will get that working. proftpd's DB auth > when i hacked it some time ago was not too fun....what was nice about > what we did though was that the ftp daemon did not need access to > /etc/passwd, so producers could create/delete ftp accounts directly > on the DB. -pete > > > -- > ~~o0OO0o~~ > Pete Wright > www.nycbug.org > NYC's *BSD User Group I wouldn't call it voodoo . I had set up email (courier-imap, postfix) to hold user auth, so, I figured.. why not ftp?. I was constrained to MySQL. xinetd takes the call on port 20 and routes them to vsftpd and its conf file. On logon, pam gets the auth request. /etc/pam.d/ftp has the entries to look up the users in the db rather than system accounts. vsftpd has a vsftp_user_conf directive that contains a directory and for each user if you want user-specific confs, which is nice. Sample conf called by xinetd: ->grep ^[^#] /usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.conf anonymous_enable=NO local_enable=YES write_enable=YES anon_upload_enable=NO anon_mkdir_write_enable=NO dirmessage_enable=YES connect_from_port_20=YES xferlog_enable=YES xferlog_file=/usr/local/var/log/vsftpd.log banner_file=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.banner_file secure_chroot_dir=/usr/local/share/vsftpd/empty chroot_local_user=YES user_config_dir=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd_user_conf Michael From nomadlogic Mon Aug 22 12:58:36 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:58:36 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822124914.14cd5a97@genoverly.com> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> <57d71000050822085218cfed1f@mail.gmail.com> <20050822124914.14cd5a97@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <57d710000508220958459dd4e1@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/05, michael wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:52:31 -0700 > pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/22/05, michael wrote: > > > > > > > > > > None of the uploads work, but I am kind of annoyed at these test > > > > uploads, but I'm thinking there is very little I can do about > > > > this. Any ideas? Anyone else have a similar set up? Would you set > > > > up a no privaledges account, rather than go anonymous, seems like > > > > more of a hassle to risk having a real user id and password, even > > > > with really restricted privs, going out over ftp. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Marco > > > > > > I run vsftp on FreeBSD, it is great stuff. Anon is tough, I block > > > it. vsftp has a lot of flexibility, why not create a single user for > > > them to upload? I set their password using mysql auth, so no shell > > > access. You can use vsftp to tweak their rights. > > > > > > > > sweet, hey michael so is mysql auth part of the stock vsftp package or > > is there some vodoo that will get that working. proftpd's DB auth > > when i hacked it some time ago was not too fun....what was nice about > > what we did though was that the ftp daemon did not need access to > > /etc/passwd, so producers could create/delete ftp accounts directly > > on the DB. -pete > > > > > > -- > > ~~o0OO0o~~ > > Pete Wright > > www.nycbug.org > > NYC's *BSD User Group > > I wouldn't call it voodoo . I had set up email (courier-imap, > postfix) to hold user auth, so, I figured.. why not ftp?. I was > constrained to MySQL. > > xinetd takes the call on port 20 and routes them to vsftpd and its conf > file. On logon, pam gets the auth request. /etc/pam.d/ftp has the > entries to look up the users in the db rather than system accounts. ahh...I never though about PAM /me slap's head for missing the obvious vsftpd has a vsftp_user_conf directive that contains a directory and for > each user if you want user-specific confs, which is nice. > > Sample conf called by xinetd: > > ->grep ^[^#] /usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.conf > anonymous_enable=NO > local_enable=YES > write_enable=YES > anon_upload_enable=NO > anon_mkdir_write_enable=NO > dirmessage_enable=YES > connect_from_port_20=YES > xferlog_enable=YES > xferlog_file=/usr/local/var/log/vsftpd.log > banner_file=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.banner_file > secure_chroot_dir=/usr/local/share/vsftpd/empty > chroot_local_user=YES > user_config_dir=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd_user_conf > > > > Michael > execellent thanks once again senor genoverly. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050822/c0e8dd21/attachment.html From marco Mon Aug 22 13:05:59 2005 From: marco (Marco Scoffier) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:05:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822124914.14cd5a97@genoverly.com> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822113120.2e2411f7@genoverly.com> <57d71000050822085218cfed1f@mail.gmail.com> <20050822124914.14cd5a97@genoverly.com> Message-ID: <20050822170559.GE12639@ns.metm.org> On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 12:49:14PM -0400, michael wrote: >I wouldn't call it voodoo . I had set up email (courier-imap, >postfix) to hold user auth, so, I figured.. why not ftp?. I was >constrained to MySQL. > >xinetd takes the call on port 20 and routes them to vsftpd and its conf >file. On logon, pam gets the auth request. /etc/pam.d/ftp has the >entries to look up the users in the db rather than system accounts. > >vsftpd has a vsftp_user_conf directive that contains a directory and for >each user if you want user-specific confs, which is nice. > >Sample conf called by xinetd: > > ->grep ^[^#] /usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.conf >anonymous_enable=NO >local_enable=YES >write_enable=YES >anon_upload_enable=NO >anon_mkdir_write_enable=NO >dirmessage_enable=YES >connect_from_port_20=YES >xferlog_enable=YES >xferlog_file=/usr/local/var/log/vsftpd.log >banner_file=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.banner_file >secure_chroot_dir=/usr/local/share/vsftpd/empty >chroot_local_user=YES >user_config_dir=/usr/local/etc/vsftpd/vsftpd_user_conf > > Thanks for the detailed tips. I'll be working on my PAM foo. I need to get better working with heavily multi user environments (more that setting up groups properly). Thanks, -- Marco From lists Mon Aug 22 15:22:06 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKoyl-1E6vKY1tvL-00066W@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <20050822151245.T21892@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > Try turning on query caching. That alone has been very helpfull. Utilization was 50% to 70% and was doing mostly 20 to 70 queries/second. Now utilization is mostly under 40% and QPS is 40 to 120 QPS. > But before any of that, get the right binary. The number one problem with > MySQL on FreeBSD is that people use the wrong binary. I will eventually try that. I see is as a riskier proposition. The cache setting is a win win (little risk, performance increase, cpu utilization reduction). Any suggestions on values for the cache size? Started at 64K, then 128K now at 256K. Also the docs don't indicate if this memory is coming from the currently used memory pool, or if this is in excess of that. The one machine I am trying right now, is already using 128MB of swap so I am very concerned about memory.. Looking to see what I can move out of that machine. From lists Mon Aug 22 18:36:25 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server In-Reply-To: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> References: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> Message-ID: <20050822183458.U22974@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > So I've been playing around with a soekris net4801 and want it to send its > pflog data to a separate logging server. What do you have installed on the soekris? > The openbsd documentation > (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/logging.html) seems to suggest using cron to > make the pflog into a text file and then ship that over to your log server. Why not syslog to a different machine? I have a Soekris running M0n0Wall and I send the syslog output to a FreeBSD machine. I did have to change a setting in the FreeBSD machine to accept connections though. From lists Mon Aug 22 18:39:35 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> Message-ID: <20050822183833.M22974@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Marco Scoffier wrote: > I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files (images, > videos). Are the users using Windows? Why not tell them to use winscp and create a single user for them. It will be secure and easy to use. Other than having to tell them how to setup winscp once, the rest will be very easy for them to do. From nomadlogic Mon Aug 22 19:05:31 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:05:31 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <20050822183833.M22974@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822183833.M22974@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <57d710000508221605750f71f6@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/05, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Marco Scoffier wrote: > > > I have set up an ftp server to get people to upload large files (images, > > videos). > > Are the users using Windows? > Why not tell them to use winscp and create a single user for them. > It will be secure and easy to use. Other than having to tell them how to > setup winscp once, the rest will be very easy for them to do. except that untrained users will have a valid unix login setup on a windows box ;^) -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050822/44087655/attachment.html From george Mon Aug 22 19:27:17 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:27:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] [Fwd: [Jobs] Oracle problem for vendor. . .] Message-ID: <430A5F55.2040408@sddi.net> Posted to jobs, but no response. . . Please contact me off list if you could assist the vendor with this issue. . . g -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Jobs] Oracle problem for vendor. . . Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:14:46 -0400 From: George R. Reply-To: george at sddi.net To: jobs at lists.nycbug.org A vendor of mine just called about a problem with Lucent's QIP for IP Management, which uses an Oracle backend. .. It looks like a one-shot consulting job. Contact me offlist is it's your piece of pie. When starting the database up. . . SVRMGR> connect internal Connected. SVRMGR> shutdown immediate; ORA-01109: database not open Database dismounted. ORACLE instance shut down. SVRMGR> startup ORACLE instance started. Total System Global Area 236630000 bytes Fixed Size 69616 bytes Variable Size 79093760 bytes Database Buffers 157286400 bytes Redo Buffers 180224 bytes Database mounted. ORA-00320: cannot read file header from log 3 of thread 1 ORA-00312: online log 3 thread 1: '/usr/raid/ora/qipd/ora1/oradata/INHO/redo03.log' ORA-27091: skgfqio: unable to queue I/O Additional information: 1 Additional information: 1 SVRMGR> alter database clear logfile group 3; alter database clear logfile group 3 * ORA-01624: log 3 needed for crash recovery of thread 1 ORA-00312: online log 3 thread 1: '/usr/raid/ora/qipd/ora1/oradata/INHO/redo03.log' _______________________________________________ Jobs mailing list Jobs at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs From spork Mon Aug 22 19:40:41 2005 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Misc. Junk Giveaway Message-ID: All, Bway.net will be moving offices soon. This next week I will be sorting stuff into "junk" and "keep" piles... I don't have an exact date/time, and I'm looking for some input on this, but we'll be opening up the office for anyone that wants to pick through the "junk" pile. Let me know if anyone would be interested in picking through their mess, and what a good time is. Some examples: -lots and lots of narrow scsi junk (enclosures, cabling, adapters, terminators) -misc Sun and SGI oddball parts and cables -misc really old PCs and assorted parts -outdated weird networking gear -wang terminals and large cpu unit -tons of misc cables Thanks, Charles ___ Charles Sprickman NetEng/SysAdmin Bway.net - New York's Best Internet - www.bway.net spork at bway.net - 212.655.9344 From bschonhorst Mon Aug 22 20:43:22 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server In-Reply-To: <20050822183458.U22974@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> <20050822183458.U22974@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <63917.168.100.249.178.1124757802.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> > On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > >> So I've been playing around with a soekris net4801 and want it to send >> its >> pflog data to a separate logging server. > > What do you have installed on the soekris? A heavily modified version of flashdist. >> The openbsd documentation >> (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/logging.html) seems to suggest using cron >> to >> make the pflog into a text file and then ship that over to your log >> server. > > Why not syslog to a different machine? > I have a Soekris running M0n0Wall and I send the syslog output to a > FreeBSD machine. I did have to change a setting in the FreeBSD machine to > accept connections though. hmm. Thats what I had originally hoped to do but i wasn't sure how to do that without losing realtime viewing. I ended up using the dup-to flag (thanks Okan) to send blocked packets to my log server. The log server has pf running and logs all incomming packets (the ones sent from the gateway.) I also opened up 514 UDP so i could send regular syslogs at it. What does your syslog.conf file look like in order to send pflog to log server? Or did you change the log location in /etc/rc.conf to send pflog over somehow? -brad From lists Mon Aug 22 20:50:26 2005 From: lists (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:50:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <20050822151245.T21892@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <0MKp2t-1E7Mzl0Xcd-0001fr@mrelay.perfora.net> Francisco Reyes wrote on Monday, August 22, 2005 3:22 PM: > On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, Hans Zaunere wrote: > > > Try turning on query caching. > > That alone has been very helpfull. Utilization was 50% to 70% and was > doing mostly 20 to 70 queries/second. Now utilization is > mostly under 40% > and QPS is 40 to 120 QPS. > > > But before any of that, get the right binary. The number one > > problem with MySQL on FreeBSD is that people use the wrong binary. > > I will eventually try that. I see is as a riskier proposition. The cache > setting is a win win (little risk, performance increase, cpu > utilization reduction). Ehh, well - watch MySQL on a four-way SMP FreeBSD 4.7 box and come back to me :) You can skirt around the right binary, but especially when you start getting higher concurrencies, it won't be fun. There's little fuss/risk, but do be aware of MySQL's version changes (noteably 4.0 -> 4.1). > Any suggestions on values for the cache size? Started at 64K, then 128K > now at 256K. All depends on the schema, hit ratios of the cache after some uptime, and how much RAM you have. > Also the docs don't indicate if this memory is coming from the currently > used memory pool, or if this is in excess of that. The one machine I am > trying right now, is already using 128MB of swap so I am very > concerned about memory.. Looking to see what I can move out of that > machine. Again depends on schema - noteably what storage engine. Different storage engines do different things. If you're swapping - especially if you're using MyISAM, pull back on some buffer sizes. The query cache is a fixed size, so if you set it to something, it won't grow. Other things will, including the kernel's reliance on disk caches. H From lists Mon Aug 22 22:07:12 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anonymous ftp upload questions In-Reply-To: <57d710000508221605750f71f6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050822145434.GG26689@ns.metm.org> <20050822183833.M22974@zoraida.natserv.net> <57d710000508221605750f71f6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050822220541.M24269@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, pete wright wrote: > except that untrained users will have a valid unix login setup on a windows > box ;^) If all they have to do is drop files you could give them write access, but no read access to a particular directory.. or some other simmilar arrangement. Besides if you give no rights to the user in question the damage he/she will be able to do with the shared ID will be minimal. From lists Mon Aug 22 22:18:31 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] pflog to remote server In-Reply-To: <63917.168.100.249.178.1124757802.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> References: <065C6FA9-0764-4135-BC87-92898C5D0580@vcsnyc.org> <20050822183458.U22974@zoraida.natserv.net> <63917.168.100.249.178.1124757802.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> Message-ID: <20050822221457.M24269@zoraida.natserv.net> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > What does your syslog.conf file look like in order to send pflog to log > server? Or did you change the log location in /etc/rc.conf to send pflog > over somehow? On the receiving machine in /etc/rc.conf syslogd_flags="-axi " Also did some entries in /etc/syslog.conf to indicate the file to save the data to. Don't have the exact setup because don't have access from home to the machine. From dan Mon Aug 22 23:02:20 2005 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:02:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCan 2005 t-shirts Message-ID: <430A597C.25342.C95FC10@localhost> If you didn't get a chance to get a BSDCan 2005 t-shirt, I printed some more up. See this link for details: http://www.freebsddiary.org/bsdcan-2005-t-shirt.php If you want to combine orders into one shipment, we can adjust the shipping fee. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Tue Aug 23 01:11:28 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:11:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MIT swap October field trip and other upcoming events. . . Message-ID: <430AB000.3090602@sddi.net> Anyone interested. . .? Maybe we could jump on Canal street buses in October to check this out. .. Max should probably provide some details, as he went this past Sunday. 7 am bus, no less. It would be our first field trip that wasn't related to a conference. http://web.mit.edu/w1mx/www/swapfest.shtml Thoughts? Then maybe a DC field trip and we could all crash at Nako's while we visit the cryptography museum . . . And what about Shmoo this year? A number of us went last year, and it was by far the most interesting security conference I've attended, with heavy BSD flavor. http://www.shmoocon.org/ g From bschonhorst Tue Aug 23 10:29:10 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:29:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Blogging NYCBSDCon Message-ID: For those of you who haven't seen this yet, Dan Langille posted an entry about the upcoming NYCBSDCon on his news blog at freebsddiary. http://www.freebsddiary.org/nycbsdcon-2005.php It would be great if some NYCBuggers ( i think thats the prefered term :) could provide some coverage of the conference, both before and during. Shoot me an email off list if you plan too, I've been trying to keep track of any postings about the event. -Brad From lists Tue Aug 23 10:32:40 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:32:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Blogging NYCBSDCon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050823103240.7de9fa80@genoverly.com> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:29:10 -0400 Brad Schonhorst wrote: > For those of you who haven't seen this yet, Dan Langille posted an > entry about the upcoming NYCBSDCon on his news blog at freebsddiary. > http://www.freebsddiary.org/nycbsdcon-2005.php > > It would be great if some NYCBuggers ( i think thats the prefered > term :) could provide some coverage of the conference, both before > and during. Shoot me an email off list if you plan too, I've been > trying to keep track of any postings about the event. > > > > -Brad NYCBUG is also sponsoring a photo album if anyone wants to post pictures. Look for an announcement before the event. Michael From nomadlogic Tue Aug 23 11:16:35 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:16:35 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDCan 2005 t-shirts In-Reply-To: <430A597C.25342.C95FC10@localhost> References: <430A597C.25342.C95FC10@localhost> Message-ID: <57d71000050823081627aef05@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/05, Dan Langille wrote: > > If you didn't get a chance to get a BSDCan 2005 t-shirt, I printed > some more up. See this link for details: > > http://www.freebsddiary.org/bsdcan-2005-t-shirt.php > > If you want to combine orders into one shipment, we can adjust the > shipping fee. I'm down for getting one of these shirts...as an honorary BSDCan attendee this year ;^) Anyone else interested? -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050823/c8c69b69/attachment.html From ike Tue Aug 23 14:56:02 2005 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:56:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new to FreeBSD wireless In-Reply-To: <65429.168.100.249.178.1124489684.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> References: <65429.168.100.249.178.1124489684.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> Message-ID: <88A8B4FD-E243-4614-9835-0CBAAE05BE96@lesmuug.org> Hi Brad, On Aug 19, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > The front page of news.com.com has an article about FreeBSD 6 and its > support for many wireless devices: > http://news.com.com/ > > I have been using an iBook since OS X came about but recently > decided it > was time to give BSD a try. I picked up a new TINY Fujitsu P7010 > and now > have it running FreeBSD 6. ( For anyone interested, I documented the > setup of my first BSD laptop here: http://plumblossom.org/p7010d.htm ) Woohoo! Great screen-shot :) > > Wireless support I think, based on the lack of responses here, that this may be something nobody else happens to be dealing with- but I for one am curious about... In a recent interview with Scott Long some places online, ( http:// bsdnews.com/view_story.php3?story_id=5137 ) he was talking about the Wireless Support being solidified in the 6.0 branch of FreeBSD, which in a nutshell I'd think means it's all kindof beta for now... (it ain't stable till it's STABLE) I'd subscribe to the appropriate FreeBSD mailing list and ask there, you may simply have a relevant bug on your hands. (I'm just not certain which list to subscribe to): http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL -or- http://tinyurl.com/623qw Rocket- .ike From bschonhorst Tue Aug 23 15:21:02 2005 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:21:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new to FreeBSD wireless In-Reply-To: <88A8B4FD-E243-4614-9835-0CBAAE05BE96@lesmuug.org> References: <65429.168.100.249.178.1124489684.squirrel@www.geekisp.com> <88A8B4FD-E243-4614-9835-0CBAAE05BE96@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Aug 23, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Brad, > > On Aug 19, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Brad Schonhorst wrote: > > >> The front page of news.com.com has an article about FreeBSD 6 and its >> support for many wireless devices: >> http://news.com.com/ >> >> I have been using an iBook since OS X came about but recently >> decided it >> was time to give BSD a try. I picked up a new TINY Fujitsu P7010 >> and now >> have it running FreeBSD 6. ( For anyone interested, I documented the >> setup of my first BSD laptop here: http://plumblossom.org/ >> p7010d.htm ) >> > > Woohoo! Great screen-shot :) I was wondering if anyone would catch that ;) > >> >> Wireless support >> > > > I think, based on the lack of responses here, that this may be > something nobody else happens to be dealing with- but I for one am > curious about... > cool, I was afraid it was one of those questions with the really obvious answer... > In a recent interview with Scott Long some places online, ( http:// > bsdnews.com/view_story.php3?story_id=5137 ) he was talking about > the Wireless Support being solidified in the 6.0 branch of FreeBSD, > which in a nutshell I'd think means it's all kindof beta for now... > (it ain't stable till it's STABLE) > > I'd subscribe to the appropriate FreeBSD mailing list and ask > there, you may simply have a relevant bug on your hands. (I'm just > not certain which list to subscribe to): > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ > eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL > -or- > http://tinyurl.com/623qw The more i think about it, its probably freebsd-current but I was really hoping to avoid that one cause of the volume.... -brad From hubert Tue Aug 23 23:20:44 2005 From: hubert (Hubert Feyrer) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:20:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Lectures @ Stevens: Open Source and System Administration Message-ID: There will be two courses at Stevens Institute of Technology at Hoboken, NJ, this fall that may be of interest to you, "Open Source" and "System Administration": 1) "Open Source" (CS765E) Open Source became popular in public with the discussion about using it in the cities of Austin (Texas), Mexico City (Mexico) or in European cities like Bergen (Norway) or Munich (Germany). But Open Source systems consist of a lot more than the Linux operating systems and other software Topics covered in the lecture include: Historical background of Free and Open Source Software; Alternatives to the Office standard; Architecture of Open Source systems; the Open Source toolchain (compilers, GNU autoconf, libtool); Manual software installation - configure ; make ; make install and beyond; Managing source code with RCS and CVS; License models and their effects; Earning money with free software; Source-based packaging systems; Role of the Internet in Open Source software; and many more. Instructor: Hubert Feyrer Scheduled: Monday, 6:15 - 8:45pm, see homepage for place Homepage: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OS/en/ Flyer: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OSflyer.pdf 2) "System Administration" (CS765D) Now there you are with your shiny RedHat, MacOS X or whatever installation, you've clicked all the buttons that the GUI came with, but you still don't know what's going on inside the machine? Fear not, help is at hand! This lecture is intended for Unix neophytes who want to know what to do with the system, and how, without relying on fancy user interfaces. Experienced users will gain deeper understanding in the various subsystems of Unix, their interaction and configuration. Topics discussed in the lecture include: A historical overview of the history of Unix, and why there is no such thing called Unix; the login process - diving into the system; tools to use standalone and for process automation; retrieving information about the system; Process automation shell scripting with /bin/sh; examining system startup and shutdown as application of shell scripts; networking under Unix: basics, secure communication, managing clusters of workstations; the X Window System; security considerations; using Perl for user management in a heterogeneous Unix+Windows environment; software management; backups. Focus in examples is put on, but not limited to, Solaris, NetBSD and Linux. Instructor: Hubert Feyrer Scheduled: Wednesday, 6:15 - 8:45pm, see homepage for place Homepage: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OS/en/ Flyer: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OSflyer.pdf Interested parties are asked to enroll at Stevens as Special Students by August 29th, for all the gory details please see http://gradschool.stevens-tech.edu/admissions/domestic.html. If this is not of interest to you, please bear with me. Please send any questions regarding the courses to me via email. Thanks! - Hubert From george Tue Aug 23 23:24:56 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:24:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Lectures @ Stevens: Open Source and System Administration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <430BE888.6020700@sddi.net> Sorry to top-post, but. . . As an FYI, we usually don't allow any adverts like this, but you may recognize the name Hubert Feyrer. . . he's a NetBSD developer and creator of G4U. . . I think he's courses are very relevant to talk members, and I recommended he post to the list. . . he's visiting from Germany for a bit, and enrolling in his courses means he gets to stay for a while ;-) g Hubert Feyrer wrote: > > There will be two courses at Stevens Institute of Technology at Hoboken, > NJ, this fall that may be of interest to you, "Open Source" and "System > Administration": > > 1) "Open Source" (CS765E) > > Open Source became popular in public with the discussion about using it > in the cities of Austin (Texas), Mexico City (Mexico) or in European > cities like Bergen (Norway) or Munich (Germany). But Open Source systems > consist of a lot more than the Linux operating systems and other software > > Topics covered in the lecture include: Historical background of Free and > Open Source Software; Alternatives to the Office standard; Architecture > of Open Source systems; the Open Source toolchain (compilers, GNU > autoconf, libtool); Manual software installation - configure ; make ; > make install and beyond; Managing source code with RCS and CVS; License > models and their effects; Earning money with free software; Source-based > packaging systems; Role of the Internet in Open Source software; and > many more. > > Instructor: Hubert Feyrer > Scheduled: Monday, 6:15 - 8:45pm, see homepage for place > Homepage: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OS/en/ > Flyer: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OSflyer.pdf > > > 2) "System Administration" (CS765D) > > Now there you are with your shiny RedHat, MacOS X or whatever > installation, you've clicked all the buttons that the GUI came with, but > you still don't know what's going on inside the machine? Fear not, help > is at hand! This lecture is intended for Unix neophytes who want to know > what to do with the system, and how, without relying on fancy user > interfaces. Experienced users will gain deeper understanding in the > various subsystems of Unix, their interaction and configuration. > > Topics discussed in the lecture include: A historical overview of the > history of Unix, and why there is no such thing called Unix; the login > process - diving into the system; tools to use standalone and for > process automation; retrieving information about the system; Process > automation shell scripting with /bin/sh; examining system startup and > shutdown as application of shell scripts; networking under Unix: basics, > secure communication, managing clusters of workstations; the X Window > System; security considerations; using Perl for user management in a > heterogeneous Unix+Windows environment; software management; backups. > Focus in examples is put on, but not limited to, Solaris, NetBSD and Linux. > > Instructor: Hubert Feyrer > Scheduled: Wednesday, 6:15 - 8:45pm, see homepage for place > Homepage: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OS/en/ > Flyer: http://www.cs.stevens.edu/~feyrer/OSflyer.pdf > > > Interested parties are asked to enroll at Stevens as Special Students by > August 29th, for all the gory details please see > http://gradschool.stevens-tech.edu/admissions/domestic.html. > If this is not of interest to you, please bear with me. > > Please send any questions regarding the courses to me via email. > > Thanks! > > > - Hubert > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > From hubert Tue Aug 23 23:39:51 2005 From: hubert (Hubert Feyrer) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:39:51 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Lectures @ Stevens: Open Source and System Administration In-Reply-To: <430BE888.6020700@sddi.net> References: <430BE888.6020700@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, George R. wrote: > As an FYI, we usually don't allow any adverts like this, but you may > recognize the name Hubert Feyrer. . . he's a NetBSD developer and creator of > G4U. . . Sorry for the spam, I wasn't aware it's not wanted. FWIW, both lectures _do_ cover BSD. :-) - Hubert From steve.rieger Wed Aug 24 11:15:40 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:15:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nagios config tools Message-ID: so we had this decent discussion about nagios config helpers. for those of you that used it what is your feedback on the various tools out there. -- Steve Rieger AIM chozrim ICQ 53956607 Cell 646 335 8915 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com I had the blues because I had no shoes until upon the street, I met a man who had no feet. Biker Blues This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050824/5126a647/attachment.html From mspitzer Thu Aug 25 17:54:24 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:54:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Monitoring programs In-Reply-To: References: <20050819162455.H28678@zoraida.natserv.net> <8c50a3c3050819151343b32e0f@mail.gmail.com> <20050820165733.K40050@zoraida.natserv.net> <4307DD8D.6050904@penguinnetwerx.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305082514546ea9635d@mail.gmail.com> Here is something that you might want to take a look at, it can use nagios plugins also. http://moodss.sourceforge.net/ marc From lists Thu Aug 25 21:29:55 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly Message-ID: <20050825212955.3574e011@genoverly.com> Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:34:03 -0700 Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, August 25 ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members August 25, 2005 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -FrontPage 2003: The Missing Manual -No Nonsense XML Web Development with PHP -Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide -The Unofficial LEGO Builder's Guide -XML Pocket Reference, 3rd Edition -Network Security Evaluation Using the NSA IEM -Fast Guide to Propellerhead Reason, 2nd Edition -Oracle DBA Pocket Guide -Windows XP Cookbook -Digital Identity -Host Integrity Monitoring Using Osiris and Samhain -Agile Web Development with Rails -MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Sinan Si Alhirr ("UML in a Nutshell"), Project Management Institute, Bloomington, IL--September 13 -O'Reilly at Microsoft PDC 2005, Los Angeles, CA--September 13-16 -David Pogue (Missing Manual Series) Gloucester County College, Sewell, NJ--October 22 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -ETech 2006 CFP Now Open -Registration is Open for EuroOSCON ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -MAKE: Blog is Nominated for "Best of the Web" on Business Week -Visualizing the O'Reilly Connection Network Using FOAF and Graphviz -What is AdSense -SafariU: Create Your Own Textbook in No Time -Learning Lab August Special -Identity Management Architectures and Digital Identity -Linux for Video Production -How to Decide What Bugs to Fix When, Part 1 -PHP 6.0 Ingredients -Web Apps with Tiger: Getting Started -Build a Simple 3D Pipeline in Tcl -Turn Your Old Mac into a Home-Automation System -What is Visual Studio -Setting Up Vonage with Your PC -Using Drools in Your Enterprise Java Application -Hacking Swing with Undocumented Classes and Properties -Ten Tips for Improving Your Podcasts -Get Cooking With Photoshop and CSS -Mobile Video: Working with MPEG-4 Clips on Mobile Phones -MAKE: Audio--Natalie Jeremijenko -How to get RSS Feeds on Your Watch ---------------------------------------------------------------- >From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Charleston Code Camp, Charleston, SC--September 17 ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? 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For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***FrontPage 2003: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600950X This book puts FrontPage 2003's features in context, with clear and thorough chapters that provide valuable shortcuts, workarounds, and just plain common sense, no matter where you weigh in on the technical scale. You will learn to build web pages, simple or sophisticated, and find out how to manage and publish your website. You'll also learn to create forms, work with databases, and integrate FrontPage with Microsoft Office. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/frontpagetmm/ Chapter 7, "Cascading Style Sheets," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/frontpagetmm/chapter/index.html ***No Nonsense XML Web Development with PHP Publisher: SitePoint ISBN: 097524020X Practical and concise, this book teaches XML from the ground up and explains how XML can be put to use in real-world projects. Written in a tutorial style, it presents various XML methodologies and techniques in an easy-to-understand way, building a basis for further exploration. This book also covers buzz topics such as RSS and Web Services. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/097524020X/ ***Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100655 This practical pocket guide covers basic Eclipse concepts as well as features that are not commonly understood, such as Perspectives and Launch Configurations. You'll learn how to write and debug your Java code and how to integrate that code with tools such as Ant and JUnit. You'll also get a collection of tips and tricks to handle common tasks in your Java development cycle. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/eclipsepg/ Chapter 6, "Tips and Tricks," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/eclipsepg/chapter/index.html ***The Unofficial LEGO Builder's Guide Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 1593270542 In "The Unofficial LEGO Builder's Guide," readers will discover everything from how to craft sturdy walls and a basic sphere to more advanced concepts such as scale and design. Illustrations demonstrate construction tips that can be applied to a wide variety of original creations made from real bricks. Includes essential terminology and an overview of different types of LEGO pieces. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270542/index.html ***XML Pocket Reference, 3rd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100507 This perennial bestseller has been revised once again to give you quick access to the latest goods. In addition to its comprehensive look at XML, this third edition has been updated with new material on Namespaces and XML Schema, along with RELAX NG and Schematron. Featuring a well-organized format that gets right to the point, this compact book is perfect for getting XML answers quick and on the fly. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlpr3/ ***Network Security Evaluation Using the NSA IEM Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490350 Finally, a book that gives you everything you need to provide the most comprehensive technical security posture evaluation for any organization. The NSA's recommended methodology is described in depth, leading you through each step in providing customers with analysis customized to their organization. From setting scope and legal coordination to the final report and trending metrics, this book has it all. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490350/index.html ***Fast Guide to Propellerhead Reason, 2nd Edition Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775937 This in-depth guide takes you through every separate Reason device as well as all the devices and changes introduced with the V2.5 update. Every control and function is clearly explained. In addition, standard and exotic techniques are introduced at the points where you will find them most useful, and step-by-step programming tutorials help increase your hands-on skills with Reason. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1870775937/ ***Oracle DBA Pocket Guide Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100493 This handy reference is designed to help administrators make more effective use of their time by presenting a compact summary of DBA tasks in an easy-to-use form. With this book by your side, you'll have instant access to the most important concepts, best practices, tips, and checklists. Key topics include architecture, installation, configuration, tuning, and backup/recovery. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/oracledbapg/ ***Windows XP Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007256 Useful to anyone that has to use, deploy, administer, or automate Windows XP, this handy reference guide provides practical solutions for the most common Windows XP tasks. The over 300 step-by-step recipes enable you to install, manage, and support your operating system with ease. This book also covers Microsoft's XP Service Pack 2. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/windowsxpckbk/ Chapter 6, "System Properties, Startup, and Shutdown," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/windowsxpckbk/chapter/index.html ***Digital Identity Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008783 This fascinating book shows how an enterprise-wide "identity management architecture" (IMA) can provide security while ensuring that interactions with customers, employees, partners, and suppliers are richer and more flexible. Through a detailed, real-world view of the concepts, issues, and technologies behind IMA, this book shows CIOs, other IT professionals, product managers, and programmers how security planning can support business goals and opportunities rather than holding them at bay. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/digidentity/ Chapter 13, "An Architecture for Digital Identity," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/digidentity/chapter/index.html ***Host Integrity Monitoring Using Osiris and Samhain Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490180 Host Integrity Monitoring is the most effective way to determine if some form of malicious attack or threat has compromised your network security to modify the filesystem, system configuration, or runtime environment of monitored hosts. This book provides foundation information on host integrity monitoring as well as specific, detailed instruction on using best of breed products Osiris and Samhain. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490180/index.html ***Agile Web Development with Rails Publisher: Pragmatic ISBN: 097669400X This book shows you how easy it is to install Rails using your web server of choice. In the extended tutorial sections, you'll create a complete online store application to see how a full Rails application is developed. Further, you'll learn how to exploit the Rails service frameworks to send emails, implement web services, and create dynamic, user-centric web pages. There are also extensive chapters on testing, deployment, and scaling. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/097669400X/ ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four. Subscribe at: https://www.pubservice.com/MK/Subnew.aspx?PC=MK&PK=M5ZUGLA ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Sinan Si Alhirr ("UML in a Nutshell"), Project Management Institute, Bloomington, IL--September 13 Author Sinan presents "The Art of Agility: Project Management and Software Development" at the Project Management Institute (PMI) Central Illinois Chapter. http://www.pmi-cic.org/ ***O'Reilly at Microsoft PDC 2005, Los Angeles, CA--September 13-16 Visit us at booth #1017 and discover our growing line of Microsoft developer, administrator, and advanced Office books. O'Reilly editors and product manager will be on hand to answer your questions. Our Microsoft publishing team is looking forward to this sold out show. http://msdn.microsoft.com/events/pdc/ ***David Pogue (Missing Manual Series) Gloucester County College, Sewell, NJ--October 22 In partnership with Gloucester County College, the Macintosh Users Group of Southern New Jersey is sponsoring an afternoon with author and "New York Times" columnist, David Pogue. For event details and registration information, go to: http://www.mugsnj.org/Pogue2005/index.html ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***ETech 2006 CFP Now Open O'Reilly's Emerging Technology Conference 2006 is scheduled for March 6-9 in San Diego. We invite technologists, strategists, CTOs, chief scientists, researchers, programmers, hackers, standards workers, business developers, and entrepreneurs to lead sessions and tutorials at ETech. This year's challenge focuses on the amazing amount of digital data in our worlds: how do we visualize the data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? Proposals are due by September 19th. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/etech/ ***Registration is Open for EuroOSCON Join developers, systems and network administrators, and IT managers at the very first O'Reilly European Open Source Convention in Amsterdam on October 17-20. EuroOSCON will explore the best and newest open source technologies, particularly for companies, governments, and nonprofits. EuroOSCON showcases the diversity in open source while maintaining a practical edge. http://conferences.oreilly.com/eurooscon/ Use code "euos05usrg" when you register, and receive 25% off the registration price. To register for the conference, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/eurooscon/create/ord_euos05 ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***MAKE: Blog is Nominated for "Best of the Web" on Business Week Cast your vote today and help us make number one. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/bestofweb.htm ***Visualizing the O'Reilly Connection Network Using FOAF and Graphviz Timothy M. O'Brien gathered some interesting imagery and offered insight into the growing network in the O'Reilly Connection. Just over a month old and the network already looks as busy as the air traffic pattern over O'Hare. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7631 ***What is AdSense Looking for ways to generate some cash for that website you've been developing? Google's AdSense may be your answer. This introduction to AdSense will help you decide if the program, which allows you to sell advertising space for other people's ads on your own site, is right for you. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/07/26/WhatIsAdSense.html ***SafariU: Create Your Own Textbook in No Time With the SafariU web-based service, you can build your own custom textbook or online syllabus in a few hours drawing from the extensive list of top technical titles and 5,000 plus article database. Your printed custom book can be on local bookstore shelves in as little as two weeks. The online syllabus and electronic version of your book are accessible immediately. The service is free to qualified instructors. Visit SafariU to sign up for access. https://www.safariu.com/ ***Learning Lab August Special In our practice-based, self-paced courses, you can build your online portfolio with plenty of instructor feedback and a free O'Reilly book for reference. For a limited time, use the discount passcode "tarsier" to save an extra 15% off any of our courses--including all University of Illinois Certificate Series. http://oreilly.useractive.com/courses/certificates.php3 ***Identity Management Architectures and Digital Identity Building an identity management infrastructure requires a strategy; one that takes into account not only the technology, but the politics and economics surrounding digital identity. Phil Windley calls such a strategy an identity management architecture, or IMA. Here, he defines what an IMA is, and discusses the key components and myths to developing one. Phil is the author of O'Reilly's "Digital Identity." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2005/08/19/digitaldentity.html --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Linux for Video Production Linux and open source software is traditionally good for developers and system administrators, and recently good for business users. When will it be good for multimedia users? A handful of projects are making video production and editing possible (and useful). Jono Bacon examines the present and future of video production with Linux and open source software. Jono is the coauthor of "Linux Desktop Hacks." http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/08/18/linux_video.html ***How to Decide What Bugs to Fix When, Part 1 There are two challenges to making smart bug decisions: first, understanding how to make good bug-fix decisions; and second, creating and following rules that make it easy to stick to those decisions when the pressure is high. In this first installment of a two-part essay, Scott Berkun, author of "The Art of Project Management," provides the core ideas you need to make your own bug-fixing rules. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/08/11/fixingbugs.html ***PHP 6.0 Ingredients A wish-list of PHP 6.0 features leads to controversy among some PHP users and Web Hosts. Find out what Tom Rutter thinks of the wish list and what he thinks is missing. http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2005/08/15/php-60-ingredients/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Web Apps with Tiger: Getting Started Morbus is back with more web serving tools and tricks, updated for Mac OS X Tiger. In this first article, he'll take you on a whirlwind tour through the basics: turning on the Apache web server, learning a teensy bit of its configuration, then enabling and testing PHP. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/16/apache.html ***Build a Simple 3D Pipeline in Tcl Are you interested in playing with 3D graphics for games? In this article, Michael Norton shows you how to assemble a game console to experiment with using Tcl, which is a great tool for playing with graphics algorithms. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/08/12/tcl.html ***Turn Your Old Mac into a Home-automation System Automating your home--so the lights turn on automatically when darkness falls, the heat turns on a half an hour before you're due home, or a security camera watches the house while you're out--isn't that hard to do. Gordon Meyer, author of "Smart Home Hacks," tells you how. http://www.macworld.com/2005/08/features/oldmacnewtricks3/index.php --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***What Is Visual Studio What can you really do with Visual Studio? James Avery discusses some of the various applications you can build using Visual Studio, some of its most compelling development features, and what you need to know to get started writing quality applications in Visual Studio. James is the author of "Visual Studio Hacks." http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/08/22/ whatisVisualStudio.html ***Setting Up Vonage with Your PC If you're looking to save money on phone calls and get extra VoIP features, Vonage is a good bet. Russell Shaw shows you how to set up Vonage with your PC. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/08/23/Vonage.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Using Drools in Your Enterprise Java Application Enterprise Java developers have many fine framework choices at the presentation and persistence levels, but what about the business logic that sits in the middle? Do you want to recompile a mass of if...then spaghetti code every time a manager drops a new gotcha in your lap? In this article, Paul Browne suggests that a rule engine like Drools may be an ideal fit for this task. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/08/24/drools.html ***Hacking Swing with Undocumented Classes and Properties Joshua Marinacci, coauthor of "Swing Hacks," shows you six undocumented features, classes, and properties that let you hack into Swing. From how to hide a frame from the Windows task bar to how to make Mac OS X windows truly transparent, these undocumented hacks can add a level of polish that will make your apps stand out from the rest. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/08/10/swinghacks.html --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Ten Tips for Improving Your Podcasts Jack Herrington, author of "Podcasting Hacks," offers his top ten suggestions for creating great podcasts. He starts with the basics: reducing noise, getting a good microphone, proper microphone technique, show prep, and format, and closes with tips that deal with improving the content of your show. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/08/10/improvingpodcasts.html ***Get Cooking With Photoshop and CSS With Photoshop, CSS, and a little creativity, you can enjoy a feast of design options. Corrie shows how easy it is to tweak the graphic ingredients of your designs to produce completely different results. She cooks up three tasty design styles in Photoshop, then shows, step-by-step, how to reproduce them using CSS. http://www.sitepoint.com/article/get-cooking-photoshop-css ***Mobile Video: Working with MPEG-4 Clips on Mobile Phones MPEG-4 files can be struggle to work with, but the format is so good it's worth taming. In this article, Douglas Dixon uses the QuickTime Player to view and deconstruct clips created by several camera phones. He examines the details of the MPEG-4 format for mobile phones--called 3GPP--and works around some of the idiosyncrasies of different devices that create slightly different formats. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/08/24/mpeg4.html --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***MAKE: Audio--Natalie Jeremijenko MAKE: Audio rolls out a new type of show: A MAKER profile of Natalie Jeremijenko, who builds toxic-sensing robot dogs from discarded toys, as read by Dale Dougherty, MAKE publisher. This is an enhanced podcast; it will play audio *and* show the actual pages of MAKE Magazine from volume 02 when you click on them. We hope to do more of these--please let us know what you think. Don't forget to add the MAKE feed to iTunes 4.9. Click this link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=74069835 and click SUBSCRIBE. ***How to Get RSS Feeds on Your Watch Phil Torrone show's us how to get MSN filter content or any news via RSS on a SPOT watch: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/08/how_to_get_msn.html#more You can also get MAKE shows via ODEO! http://odeo.com/channel/1178/view MAKE Show Archive: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/make_podcast/ ***For more information on MAKE, go to: http://www.makezine.com/ ================================================ >From Your Peers ================================================ ***Charleston Code Camp,Charleston, SC--September 17 Learn Today, Compile Tonight! Interested in learning something new, without being bored to tears by an endless, 8 hour parade of Powerpoints? At Charleston Code Camp, you'll see real code that does real stuff, on a variety of topics such as Enterprise Development, Mobile Development, ASP.NET and more...and the best part is, after you're done, you'll be able to download everything at home and keep using it. For more information: http://gcnug.org/codecamp ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ Michael From nomadlogic Fri Aug 26 11:25:17 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:25:17 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] DAAP client Message-ID: <57d71000050826082543ccc5ce@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, Totally off on a tagent here but figured someone may have an idea about this. I recently set up mt-daapd (a multithreaded daap server capable of streaming mp3's to iTunes). I've been looking for a good daap client for *nix for a bit and the only thing i've turned up is "appleplayer" which looks like a clunky java program. Does anyone know of a good *nix daap player out there? Ideally it'll work on bsd, linux and if we are lucky IRIX ;) thanks, pete ps---> noticed bsdcert.org made the front page of /. today awesome! -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050826/cc773a16/attachment.html From driodeiros Fri Aug 26 14:15:32 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:15:32 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Would a G5 be able to handle it? Message-ID: <20050826181531.GA9493@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Hi there, Perhaps this is kind of off topic but I thought I would be interesting. A friend of mine is planing to buy a G5 for his mini sound studio. He is planing to record cds for different music bands which are trying to start in the music world. He doesn't know if he should buy the most powerful G5 (Dual G5 2.7G) or to go for the cheapest one (Dual G5 2G). I asked him what he is planning to run and he told me that he wants to use a sound program (Protools if I remember correctly) with a DIgi002 soundcard from digidesign to capture 24 sound channels. The sample rate for each channel will be 96Khz, having 24bits for each sample. Once having the samples, the program will apply some "effects" to them in realtime. Apparently the soundcard does not offer hardware processing so the CPU(s) will do all the sound processing. I read the protools requirements but they don't mention anything about the # of channels/Cpu requirements. I calculated some numbers considering G5 speed, memory speed, channels and data per channel, but they are pretty rough because I don't know exactly how many instructions/opcodes the CPU will trace in order to perform the sound processing for every channel. Any advice? Thanks, David From nomadlogic Fri Aug 26 14:34:29 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:34:29 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Would a G5 be able to handle it? In-Reply-To: <20050826181531.GA9493@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> References: <20050826181531.GA9493@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> Message-ID: <57d71000050826113424623575@mail.gmail.com> On 8/26/05, David Rio Deiros wrote: > > Hi there, > > Perhaps this is kind of off topic but I thought I would be interesting. > > A friend of mine is planing to buy a G5 for his mini > sound studio. He is planing to record cds for different music > bands which are trying to start in the music world. > > He doesn't know if he should buy the most powerful G5 (Dual G5 2.7G) > or to go for the cheapest one (Dual G5 2G). > > I asked him what he is planning to run and he told me that he > wants to use a sound program (Protools if I remember correctly) > with a DIgi002 soundcard from digidesign to capture 24 sound > channels. The sample rate for each channel will be 96Khz, > having 24bits for each sample. Once having the samples, > the program will apply some "effects" to them in realtime. > > Apparently the soundcard does not offer hardware processing so > the CPU(s) will do all the sound processing. I read the > protools requirements but they don't mention anything about the > # of channels/Cpu requirements. > > I calculated some numbers considering G5 speed, memory speed, channels > and data per channel, but they are pretty rough because I don't > know exactly how many instructions/opcodes the CPU will trace > in order to perform the sound processing for every channel. > > Any advice? I know some other people on this list work with sound studio's some times so they may have more info (cough jesse cough) but I think you would be fine with a slower G5. It may be a better investment to purchase a digitizer that does hardware processing though, as this will lengthen the use of the CPU you choose to purchase. From what I remember about protools is that it is not too CPU hungry, especially if you can off load processing to hardware boards. There are some pretty bright folks at Tekserve (at least they where a year ago) in the audio department. I'm sure they can give you the skinny and even let you demo units as well. -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050826/875278ef/attachment.html From tillman Sat Aug 27 19:33:15 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:33:15 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references Message-ID: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> Howdy folks, I'm looking for ways to set up an IPsec tunnel between an OS X 10.4 road warrior laptop and my -current FreeBSD box (on sparc64, though it shouldn't matter). I normally use OpenVPN for remtoe tunnels, but I'm really not happy with OpenVPN on OS X. I've never worked with IPsec in a road warrior scenario (where one IP is unknown), only in transport mode to secure host-to-host activity on a local ethernet (where it's quite handy for things like NIS). Are there any good references out there that someone could point me too? Thanks muchly, -T -- I am only one. But still I am one. I cannot do everything, and because I cannot do everything I will not refuse to do the something that I can do. - Edward Everett hyde From hubert Sat Aug 27 20:06:57 2005 From: hubert (Hubert Feyrer) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 02:06:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > I've never worked with IPsec in a road warrior scenario (where one IP is > unknown), only in transport mode to secure host-to-host activity on a > local ethernet (where it's quite handy for things like NIS). > > Are there any good references out there that someone could point me too? AFAIK the most recent (non-kame, now in ipsec-tools) racoon ship configs for that in src/racoon/samples/roadwarrior. At least NetBSD has some files in http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/crypto/dist/ipsec-tools/src/racoon/samples/roadwarrior/, and some of the IPsec documentation in http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipsec/rasvpn.html or http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipsec/ may help you. It should be useful with the latest IPsec-tools, which NetBSD has. Dunno how easy it is to get them on MacOS X or FreeBSD. Good luck! - Hubert From tillman Sat Aug 27 20:12:42 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:12:42 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 05:33:15PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > Howdy folks, > > I'm looking for ways to set up an IPsec tunnel between an OS X 10.4 road > warrior laptop and my -current FreeBSD box (on sparc64, though it > shouldn't matter). I normally use OpenVPN for remtoe tunnels, but I'm > really not happy with OpenVPN on OS X. > > I've never worked with IPsec in a road warrior scenario (where one IP is > unknown), only in transport mode to secure host-to-host activity on a > local ethernet (where it's quite handy for things like NIS). > > Are there any good references out there that someone could point me too? [Following up on my own post] There's a few issues I'm trying to learn about specifically: * road warriors often have dynamic IPs * When setting up the IP-in-IP tunnel (via a gif0 tunnel), how does one create such a tunnel if the other IP is unknown? * road warriors may be behind NATing firewalls * I don't need to do routing, aside from a single static route, as this is a laptop rather than a network * Dynamic routing wouldn't be hard -- I use BGP and OSPF with Quagga for all internetwork-tunneling needs ... * But none of the IPsec examples I've found cover this road warrior situation :-) For example, Richard's: http://taosecurity.blogspot.com/2005/01/ipsec-tunnels-with-freebsd-although.html covers tunneling between two networks, with both ends havign static IPs on the external side. If IPsec just doesn't work well for this sort of situation (dynamic IP that may be NATed), are there any recommendations for an OS X -> FreeBSD tunneling solution? -T -- When you can do nothing what can you do? - Zen koan From tillman Sat Aug 27 20:16:15 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:16:15 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20050828001615.GD1610@seekingfire.com> On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 02:06:57AM +0200, Hubert Feyrer wrote: > AFAIK the most recent (non-kame, now in ipsec-tools) racoon ship configs > for that in src/racoon/samples/roadwarrior. > > At least NetBSD has some files in > http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/crypto/dist/ipsec-tools/src/racoon/samples/roadwarrior/, > and some of the IPsec documentation in > http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipsec/rasvpn.html or > http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/network/ipsec/ may help you. > It should be useful with the latest IPsec-tools, which NetBSD has. Dunno > how easy it is to get them on MacOS X or FreeBSD. I'm not sure whether my racoon is IPsec-tools or not, though it does appear fairly recent: [root at caliban /usr/local/etc/rc.d]# pkg_info -W /usr/local/sbin/racoon /usr/local/sbin/racoon was installed by package racoon-20050510a There's no "roadwarrior" file on my disk though. I'll dig through the NetBSD documentation you mentioend (thanks!) and see if I can understand the concepts based on the config files. -T -- "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." -- Robert Heinlein From joshmccormack Sat Aug 27 20:50:29 2005 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:50:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <43110A55.9050009@travelersdiary.com> Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 05:33:15PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > >>Howdy folks, >> >>I'm looking for ways to set up an IPsec tunnel between an OS X 10.4 road >>warrior laptop and my -current FreeBSD box (on sparc64, though it >>shouldn't matter). I normally use OpenVPN for remtoe tunnels, but I'm >>really not happy with OpenVPN on OS X. What doesn't work well with OpenVPN on OS X? Josh From tillman Sat Aug 27 22:32:19 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:32:19 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <43110A55.9050009@travelersdiary.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> <43110A55.9050009@travelersdiary.com> Message-ID: <20050828023219.GE1610@seekingfire.com> On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 08:50:29PM -0400, Josh McCormack wrote: > Tillman Hodgson wrote: > >On Sat, Aug 27, 2005 at 05:33:15PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > > >>Howdy folks, > >> > >>I'm looking for ways to set up an IPsec tunnel between an OS X 10.4 road > >>warrior laptop and my -current FreeBSD box (on sparc64, though it > >>shouldn't matter). I normally use OpenVPN for remtoe tunnels, but I'm > >>really not happy with OpenVPN on OS X. > > What doesn't work well with OpenVPN on OS X? The GUI, http://tunnelblick.net/, doesn't seem to support shared-key, only RSA certs with a password. I'm otherwise very happen with OpenVPN and prefer to use it where I can. -T -- "Humans hardly ever learn from the experience of others. They learn -- when they do, which isn't often -- on their own, the hard way." -- Robert Heinlein From mspitzer Sun Aug 28 03:00:58 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:00:58 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305082800005377c984@mail.gmail.com> On 8/27/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > If IPsec just doesn't work well for this sort of situation (dynamic IP > that may be NATed), are there any recommendations for an OS X -> FreeBSD > tunneling solution? > Ipsec is probably not your best choice, openvpn over tcp is or setting up something like stunnel or ssh as a secure tunnel. You need to have a lot of stuff open on the firewall inbound: ike: udp 500 natt: udp 4500 ah: protocol 51 esp: protocol 50 pptp is almost as bad: pptp: tcp 1423, outbound connection not a big deal gre: protocol 47, inbound can be a problem marc From L.Bogert Sun Aug 28 12:11:44 2005 From: L.Bogert (Larry Bogert) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:11:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 21, Issue 41 In-Reply-To: <20050828070106.A9B7AA87A4@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20050828070106.A9B7AA87A4@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <19ebad069f6d78e9bad5ecae582eb680@ieee.org> Hi David, I'm forwarding your message to a friend who does exactly what you're proposing (he's a musician and mixes his own material). He's been using a dual-G4 tower with ProTools for some time now, and gets very satisfactory results, so I suspect the lower G5 is sufficient, but I'd rather you get the nitty gritty from him. Larry Bogert On Aug 28, 2005, at 3:01 AM, talk-request at lists.nycbug.org wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:15:32 -0700 > From: David Rio Deiros > Subject: [nycbug-talk] Would a G5 be able to handle it? > To: talk at lists.nycbug.org > Message-ID: <20050826181531.GA9493 at david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi there, > > Perhaps this is kind of off topic but I thought I would be interesting. > > A friend of mine is planing to buy a G5 for his mini > sound studio. He is planing to record cds for different music > bands which are trying to start in the music world. > > He doesn't know if he should buy the most powerful G5 (Dual G5 2.7G) > or to go for the cheapest one (Dual G5 2G). > > I asked him what he is planning to run and he told me that he > wants to use a sound program (Protools if I remember correctly) > with a DIgi002 soundcard from digidesign to capture 24 sound > channels. The sample rate for each channel will be 96Khz, > having 24bits for each sample. Once having the samples, > the program will apply some "effects" to them in realtime. > > Apparently the soundcard does not offer hardware processing so > the CPU(s) will do all the sound processing. I read the > protools requirements but they don't mention anything about the > # of channels/Cpu requirements. > > I calculated some numbers considering G5 speed, memory speed, channels > and data per channel, but they are pretty rough because I don't > know exactly how many instructions/opcodes the CPU will trace > in order to perform the sound processing for every channel. > > Any advice? > > Thanks, > > David > > From driodeiros Sun Aug 28 12:27:58 2005 From: driodeiros (David Rio Deiros) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:27:58 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 21, Issue 41 In-Reply-To: <19ebad069f6d78e9bad5ecae582eb680@ieee.org> References: <20050828070106.A9B7AA87A4@virtu.nyphp.org> <19ebad069f6d78e9bad5ecae582eb680@ieee.org> Message-ID: <20050828162758.GA24581@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 12:11:44PM -0400, Larry Bogert wrote: > Hi David, > > I'm forwarding your message to a friend who does exactly what you're > proposing (he's a musician and mixes his own material). He's been > using a dual-G4 tower with ProTools for some time now, and gets very > satisfactory results, so I suspect the lower G5 is sufficient, but I'd > rather you get the nitty gritty from him. Thank you very much Larry ! From jvanasco Sun Aug 28 13:49:50 2005 From: jvanasco (jonathan vanasco) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 13:49:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Would a G5 be able to handle it? In-Reply-To: <57d71000050826113424623575@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050826181531.GA9493@david-rio-deiros-mac-mini.local> <57d71000050826113424623575@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161F11A2-A37F-4DB1-A6DA-6C6C080B948E@mastersofbranding.com> find a digi list and ask there having done a lot of production in the past on g4s using protools and logic, my experience is that depending on the effects you want to use, your mileage may vary ie; some effects worked fine and rendered essentially real-time on a g4, while others took hours to process i know lots of people who do production and harddisk recording on stuff way lower than the lowest g5 -- but depending on what your friend wants to put through his system, he made need a faster machine or a dedicated card sonicstate.com used to be a really good resource for synth stuff -- but i haven't been into that scene for 6 years From g Sun Aug 28 17:28:35 2005 From: g (Gordon Smith) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:28:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <0MKp2t-1E7Mzl0Xcd-0001fr@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <0ILY003MLBNOOG49@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> > Again depends on schema - noteably what storage engine. Different storage > engines do different things. If you're swapping - especially if you're > using MyISAM, pull back on some buffer sizes. The query cache is a fixed > size, so if you set it to something, it won't grow. Other things will, > including the kernel's reliance on disk caches. If query concurrency is a problem and the app is implemented using the MyISAM table type/engine, ***if you're prepared to do thorough testing using non-production systems*** you might want to consider using the InnoDB engine. InnoDB is better than MyISAM when multiple queries request access to the same tables. MyISAM is fast, but seems to only allow one query to hit a table at a given time; other queries have to wait for the table lock to be released, so any performance advantage you may have had on a query-by-query basis is lost. Since InnoDB supports transactions and MyISAM does not, you'll need to make certain that autocommit is enabled so that each executed SQL statement will be committed. Autocommit is supposed to be enabled for each connection by default (e.g. unless MySQL is configured otherwise), but please test for this to be certain with your MySQL version. Autocommit should be configurable in the MySQL configuration files independently of your application. Other options may need to be set differently as well. InnoDB gives you more configurability than MyISAM, so once you're using InnoDB you'll have somewhat more direct control over MySQL configuration if you want to invest the time in additional tuning of your app. Hope this helps. G From lists Sun Aug 28 21:51:07 2005 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: MySQL In-Reply-To: <0ILY003MLBNOOG49@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0ILY003MLBNOOG49@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <20050828214746.W35103@zoraida.natserv.net> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Gordon Smith wrote: > InnoDB gives you more configurability than MyISAM, so once you're using > InnoDB you'll have somewhat more direct control over MySQL configuration if > you want to invest the time in additional tuning of your app. Thanks for all the pointers. My hope is to migrate to PostgreSQL as soon as possible. There are numerous production machines which are in operation 24x7 supporting postfix.. it would not be easy to work on the MySQL DB.. specially that I am not familiar with it.. and there was nobody familiar with it either.. so I see no reason keeping MySQL around. Pretty much just trying to find "easy fixes" for the mean time. From cbuechler Mon Aug 29 11:35:51 2005 From: cbuechler (Chris Buechler) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:35:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: On 8/27/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > * road warriors may be behind NATing firewalls That's the killer right there - FreeBSD does *not* support NAT-T at this point, so IPsec isn't a viable option for most road warrior type deployments. It will not work when the client is behind NAT. NetBSD does support NAT-T with ipsec-tools, though I can't say I've tried it. NAT-T kernel support is still missing at this point from FreeBSD (at least in 6.0 and earlier as of now, not sure of any plans or timelines to include it). As for configuration, there are a couple of FreeBSD-based firewall projects that have a GUI front end for IPsec, you could just grab the resultant .conf files to use on a regular FreeBSD box. http://pfsense.org - ipsec-tools on FreeBSD 6.0 http://m0n0.ch/wall/ - old racoon on FreeBSD 4.11 cheers, -Chris From mspitzer Mon Aug 29 12:12:40 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:12:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to start a startup school, free and in Boston Message-ID: <8c50a3c30508290912a8bd06e@mail.gmail.com> Someone might want to do a day trip: http://startupschool.org/ marc From scottro Mon Aug 29 20:34:06 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:34:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Petition to CodeWeavers Message-ID: <20050830003406.GB73272@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm not sure how many people would be interested in this but, anyway, a friend and I got interested in doing it, so... =========================================================== We've posted a petition (www.bsdnexus.com/petition.asp) requesting CodeWeavers to release its CrossOver Office software for *BSD. Please read the rest of this announcement if you might be interested in running Windows software on FreeBSD. This petition calls for CodeWeavers to release their well-regarded Linux CrossOver Office product for BSD. CodeWeavers have stated that "[we] DO plan on supporting FreeBSD someday in the future," but have set no firm dates for their completion. It is our intention that a public show of interest would demonstrate the support necessary for CodeWeavers to commit to a profitable new product platform. Note that the petition requires that you provide a valid user email address. Your address will not be shown publicly, and will be used only for maintaining the integrity of the petition (so we can validate the signatures, if necessary, and provide you with updates about the petition progress). It will not be redistributed or made available to any entity other than the poll organizers and CodeWeavers without your permission. To receive email addresses from the petition, CodWeavers similarly must agree only to use them for the purposes of marketing, testing or selling CrossOver Office for BSD. Again, the url if you are interested, is at http://www.bsdnexus.com/petition.asp - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Principal Snyder: There are things I will not tolerate: students loitering on campus after school, horrible murders with hearts being removed. And also smoking. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDE6l++lTVdes0Z9YRAidKAKCtLGKdoTPK+7sCeahHRx46JMpGyACgjtfi 66GZ0FAPJouXEmNLX2OpgaQ= =tNiu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From maudeuser Mon Aug 29 23:45:53 2005 From: maudeuser (Maude User) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Setting up a home network with FreeBSD (not connected to the Internet yet) Message-ID: <20050830034554.37847.qmail@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All - I have a 1U rackmount server (running FreeBSD 5.4) and a laptop (dual-boot running WinXP-Pro and FreeBSD 5.3) and I'd like to connect the two in a home network (not connected to the Internet) so I can learn web development using Apache, PHP, Python, Plone, Ruby, MySQL, PostgreSQL etc. Later I'll co-locate the server in a datacenter. I'd like the home network setup to be similar to the eventual co-lo setup so that it would provide a realistic environment for learning and testing, with minimal changes once I migrate the server from my home to co-lo. The server has two 1000Base-T, 100Base-TX and 10Base-T Ethernet LAN RJ45 ports (Intel 82541GI and 82547GI controllers), supporting TCP, UPD, IPv4. For the time being, the only client connecting to this server will be the laptop. I don't have broadband at home, so neither the server nor the laptop will be connected to the Internet. There's a cybercafe in the neighborhood with broadband where I can download files, lookup documentation and burn CDs. I was able to borrow someone's keyboard and monitor to install FreeBSD onto the server - but after HTTP and FTP and NFS are set up I was hoping I could return the keyboard and monitor and be able to install and configure any additional packages using the laptop as the console. The laptop has an internal CD-RW. The server has a USB CD-RW - but no monitor or keyboard. Is this just a simple "intranet" I'm setting up here? Can anyone point me to documentation that would answer the following types of questions: - What sort of cables should I get? - Since the server won't be connected to the Internet for now, can I pick any old IP address, host name and domain name? - Once the network is set up, can I use something like SSH or Webmin from the laptop to install and configure packages on the server, without attaching a keyboard and monitor? - What security should I be setting up NOW, so that the server will be secure once it goes co-lo? Thanks for any help. Scott in Brooklyn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From steve.rieger Tue Aug 30 10:04:30 2005 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:04:30 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Setting up a home network with FreeBSD (not connected to the Internet yet) In-Reply-To: <20050830034554.37847.qmail@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050830034554.37847.qmail@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Aug 29, 2005, at 11:45 PM, Maude User wrote: > Hello All - > > - Once the network is set up, can I use something > like SSH or Webmin from the laptop to install and > configure packages on the server, without > attaching a keyboard and monitor? > > - What security should I be setting up NOW, so that > the server will be secure once it goes co-lo? > > Thanks for any help. > > Scott in Brooklyn > alot of ancronyms come to mind. first off just assign any ip address to the "server" set up apache to do virtual hosting at any ip address. install ssh and get if you have space the who9le dists dir from any of the fbsd ftp servers. why use webmin tn install anything use either source or ports. This e-mail is intended only for the named person or entity to which it is addressed and contains valuable business information that is privileged, confidential and/or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is strictly prohibited. All contents are the copyright property of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies or a client of such agencies. If you are not the intended recipient, you are nevertheless bound to respect the worldwide legal rights of TBWA\Chiat\Day, its agencies and its clients. We require that unintended recipients delete the e-mail and destroy all electronic copies in their system, retaining no copies in any media. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail to disclaimer at tbwachiat.com. We appreciate your cooperation. We make no warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of this e-mail and accept no liability for its content or use. Any opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of TBWA\Chiat\Day or any of its agencies or affiliates. From mikel.king Tue Aug 30 10:51:50 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:51:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Beastie of an OS (review of FreeBSD 6.0b3) Message-ID: The following article was obviously written by a linux guy, and overall he gives it a thumbs up. There isn't anything earth shattering in the article from a typical BSD user's perspective, but linux users who read might be persuaded to give it a go. Excerpt: Once a distro goes into beta 3, most of the major choices are in place. In looking at the 3rd testing versions of distributions, one can get a fairly good idea of what a distro might be like once it's released. The only experience I've had with a BSD clone or derivative was with my PC-BSD review some months ago. That install was as simple as 1, 2, 3... or click, click, click. I'd heard the horror stories about other BSD installs, yet downloaded 6.0 beta 3 with hope. Was this going to be a brain-burning, hair-pulling, data-losing proposition? What happened with my attempted FreeBSD 6.0 Beta 3 install? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/2393 From nomadlogic Tue Aug 30 11:37:33 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:37:33 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Setting up a home network with FreeBSD (not connected to the Internet yet) In-Reply-To: <20050830034554.37847.qmail@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050830034554.37847.qmail@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57d7100005083008372e8ef95f@mail.gmail.com> On 8/29/05, Maude User wrote: > > Hello All - > > I have a 1U rackmount server (running FreeBSD 5.4) > and a laptop (dual-boot running WinXP-Pro and > FreeBSD 5.3) and I'd like to connect the two in a > home network (not connected to the Internet) so I > can learn web development using Apache, PHP, > Python, Plone, Ruby, MySQL, PostgreSQL etc. > > Later I'll co-locate the server in a datacenter. I'd > like the home network setup to be similar to the > eventual co-lo setup so that it would provide a > realistic environment for learning and testing, > with minimal changes once I migrate the server > from my home to co-lo. > > The server has two 1000Base-T, 100Base-TX and > 10Base-T Ethernet LAN RJ45 ports (Intel 82541GI > and 82547GI controllers), supporting TCP, UPD, IPv4. > > For the time being, the only client connecting to > this server will be the laptop. I don't have > broadband at home, so neither the server nor the > laptop will be connected to the Internet. There's a > cybercafe in the neighborhood with broadband where > I can download files, lookup documentation and > burn CDs. > > I was able to borrow someone's keyboard and > monitor to install FreeBSD onto the server - but > after HTTP and FTP and NFS are set up I was hoping > I could return the keyboard and monitor and be > able to install and configure any additional > packages using the laptop as the console. The > laptop has an internal CD-RW. The server has a USB > CD-RW - but no monitor or keyboard. > > Is this just a simple "intranet" I'm setting up here? > Can anyone point me to documentation that would > answer the following types of questions: > > - What sort of cables should I get? > > - Since the server won't be connected to the > Internet for now, can I pick any old IP address, > host name and domain name? > > - Once the network is set up, can I use something > like SSH or Webmin from the laptop to install and > configure packages on the server, without > attaching a keyboard and monitor? > > - What security should I be setting up NOW, so that > the server will be secure once it goes co-lo? > > Thanks for any help. > > Scott in Brooklyn First thing I would check out is this URL: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html This should also be installed on both of you FreeBSD systems (in /usr/share/doc/en/books/handbook). This will ans were %90 of your questions. Shortly, you do not need a keyboard and mouse to install or run any freebsd system. Provided it has a serial console. SSH should have been installed by default on your FreeBSD system, this is where you should do %99 of your administration on the system (IMO). As far as networking goes this URL may be helpfull: http://freebsd.rogness.net/ FreeBSD is a great OS, although the first place to start when using it is to read up on the available documentation. It will save alot of headaches in the future. -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050830/d9d0c313/attachment.html From nomadlogic Tue Aug 30 11:41:44 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:41:44 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Beastie of an OS (review of FreeBSD 6.0b3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57d7100005083008414b5a375b@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/05, Mikel King wrote: > > > The following article was obviously written by a linux guy, and > overall he gives it a thumbs up. There isn't anything earth > shattering in the article from a typical BSD user's perspective, but > linux users who read might be persuaded to give it a go. heh, can't help myself...but I think he's got things a little backwards here ;) "Can you install Slackware? Then you can install FreeBSD. In fact it even looks very much like Slackware's." oh yea, and slackware also came up with the idea of packaging applications in .pkg's as well... -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050830/973508ac/attachment.html From mspitzer Tue Aug 30 12:23:17 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:23:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Beastie of an OS (review of FreeBSD 6.0b3) In-Reply-To: <57d7100005083008414b5a375b@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d7100005083008414b5a375b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305083009232720f303@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/05, pete wright wrote: > > > On 8/30/05, Mikel King wrote: > > > > The following article was obviously written by a linux guy, and > > overall he gives it a thumbs up. There isn't anything earth > > shattering in the article from a typical BSD user's perspective, but > > linux users who read might be persuaded to give it a go. > > > heh, can't help myself...but I think he's got things a little backwards > here ;) > > > "Can you install Slackware? Then you can install FreeBSD. In fact it even > looks very much like Slackware's." > > oh yea, and slackware also came up with the idea of packaging applications > in .pkg's as well... > My favorite was that freebsd had the "linux command" which, How come so many linux people have no sense of history. Ahh to be young again. marc From mikel.king Tue Aug 30 17:09:55 2005 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:09:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anyone know of a good source... Message-ID: <4EF32394-9A4A-4D05-9259-4ECE554A338B@ocsny.com> Anyone know of a good source for entry level (low 30s) PC Techs? Some one who might be capable of learning MAC and BSD...? Thanks in advance. From scottro Tue Aug 30 20:42:38 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:42:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf Message-ID: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This question came up on bsdforums, and none of the obvious answers seem to work. I'm sure I'm missing something in either ports or make's man pages, but I can't figure it out. Here's the situation. The OP has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf Now, he wants to build /usr/ports/devel/subversion. Its makefile has an if defined WITH_RUBY line. Yes, he can comment it out in make.conf, or write a script to switch make.confs and all that. However, he was wondering, (and so am I now) how to undefine it on the command line. Doing make WITH_RUBY=no or false or 0 didn't work, nor did -DWITH_RUBY=no. There's no option in the Makefile for WITHOUT_RUBY. The OP on forums used that one for an example. It seems there has to be an easy way to do this on the command line, but I am not getting it in make's man page. Googling brought me no joy either, probably bad search terms, but now the question is annoying me. So, I'd be grateful if someone gives me the answer. Hopefully yours, - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Riley: When I'm around you Buffy I find myself needing to know the plural of apocalypse. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFPz++lTVdes0Z9YRAhz0AJ912OwNk4uDljVBnOrno23bRm1RtQCeKS5t 5t0YAc76DF03/ngPwDG5cjM= =Yid4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitzer Wed Aug 31 00:01:35 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:01:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> On 8/30/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > This question came up on bsdforums, and none of the obvious answers seem > to work. I'm sure I'm missing something in either ports or make's man > pages, but I can't figure it out. > > Here's the situation. The OP has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf > > Now, he wants to build /usr/ports/devel/subversion. Its makefile has > an if defined WITH_RUBY line. from the make man page: -E variable Specify a variable whose environment value (if any) will override macro assignments within makefiles. -e Specify that environment values override macro assignments within makefiles for all variables. and -V variable Print make's idea of the value of variable, in the global con- text. Do not build any targets. Multiple instances of this option may be specified; the variables will be printed one per line, with a blank line for each null or undefined variable. -X When using the -V option to print the values of variables, do not recursively expand the values. for debuging That should give you the mechanics for testing and over ridding the defaults Now on to the bugs/krap in the makefile: this: .if defined(WITH_RUBY) shoud be this: .if (defined(WITH_RUBY) && (WITH_RUBY == "YES")) or even better: .if (defined(WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY) && (WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY == "YES")) file a bugreport, feel free to send in a patch also and my make is very rusty so there might be a syntax issue. if he added the second half you could override the global setting with a -D or -e or -E by setting the var to no plan B is to not use make.conf to set variables but to use the config file for portinstall/portupgrade(can never remember the port name) which allows you to set port options on a per port basis marc -- "We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." -Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD From joshmccormack Wed Aug 31 00:12:38 2005 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:12:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <43152E36.5070705@travelersdiary.com> OpenBSD has supported it since 3.6 apparently: "Turn isakmpd(8) NAT-T support on. The crowd goes wild." - http://www.openbsd.org/plus36.html Using OpenVPN negates the need, too. Josh Chris Buechler wrote: > On 8/27/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > >>* road warriors may be behind NATing firewalls > > > > That's the killer right there - FreeBSD does *not* support NAT-T at > this point, so IPsec isn't a viable option for most road warrior type > deployments. It will not work when the client is behind NAT. > > NetBSD does support NAT-T with ipsec-tools, though I can't say I've tried it. > > NAT-T kernel support is still missing at this point from FreeBSD (at > least in 6.0 and earlier as of now, not sure of any plans or timelines > to include it). > > As for configuration, there are a couple of FreeBSD-based firewall > projects that have a GUI front end for IPsec, you could just grab the > resultant .conf files to use on a regular FreeBSD box. > http://pfsense.org - ipsec-tools on FreeBSD 6.0 > http://m0n0.ch/wall/ - old racoon on FreeBSD 4.11 > > cheers, > -Chris > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From tillman Wed Aug 31 00:21:09 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:21:09 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20050831042109.GD35219@seekingfire.com> On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 11:35:51AM -0400, Chris Buechler wrote: > On 8/27/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > > * road warriors may be behind NATing firewalls > > > That's the killer right there - FreeBSD does *not* support NAT-T at > this point, so IPsec isn't a viable option for most road warrior type > deployments. It will not work when the client is behind NAT. Ahhh, ok, that's going to be a problem. Anyone worked with the Tunnelblick GUI on OS X to get OpenVPN going? If I can resolve the issues I'm having with it, perhaps I can stick with OpenVPN and that would be great. -T -- I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it. - A.S.R. quote (Lieven Marchand) From scottro Wed Aug 31 00:21:22 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:21:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 12:01:35AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/30/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Here's the situation. The OP has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf > > > > Now, he wants to build /usr/ports/devel/subversion. Its makefile has > > an if defined WITH_RUBY line. (Much useful information snipped for brevity--see man make) > > > this: > .if defined(WITH_RUBY) > > shoud be this: > .if (defined(WITH_RUBY) && (WITH_RUBY == "YES")) > > or even better: > .if (defined(WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY) && (WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY == "YES")) > > file a bugreport, feel free to send in a patch also > > and my make is very rusty so there might be a syntax issue. I was about to post a followup to this. One of the most knowledgeable people on the forums posted an answer quite similar to yours, suggesting that the original poster send in a PR, though his suggested syntax was a bit different, simply adding an .if defined(WITHOUT_RUBY). My make is almost non-existant, so I'm not sure which solution would be best, though I rather like the && RUBY== "YES" better. Either way, I have my answer which is, that as things are, it would involve hacking the Makefile. > plan B is to not use make.conf to set variables but to use the config > file for portinstall/portupgrade(can never remember the port name) > which allows you to set port options on a per port basis > > marc Thank you--this really is a ~good~ list. > > -- > "We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to > form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that > we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it > can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, > inefficiency and demoralization." > -Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD Well of course things are different now. :) (Snicker, cough) My favorite is that quote decrying the youth of today that we children of the 60's figured was from Nixon or whoever and turned out to be by Aristotle. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: I suspect your mother would want to... put it on the refrigerator. Buffy: Yeah. She saw these scores and her head spun around and exploded. Giles: I've been on the Hellmouth too long, that was metaphorical, yes? Buffy: Yes. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFTBB+lTVdes0Z9YRAmPkAKCwbDmVSV449Rre2exAB2KH/QrPUgCfb1qh /krec1V/W8uajyNldsPEkNs= =sUEs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitzer Wed Aug 31 02:02:58 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:02:58 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 12:01:35AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > this: > > .if defined(WITH_RUBY) > > > > shoud be this: > > .if (defined(WITH_RUBY) && (WITH_RUBY == "YES")) > > > > or even better: > > .if (defined(WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY) && (WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY == "YES")) > > > > file a bugreport, feel free to send in a patch also > > > > and my make is very rusty so there might be a syntax issue. > > I was about to post a followup to this. One of the most knowledgeable > people on the forums posted an answer quite similar to yours, suggesting > that the original poster send in a PR, though his suggested syntax was a > bit different, simply adding an .if defined(WITHOUT_RUBY). I disagree, there is no way to unset a set make variable from the command line, from what I read in the man page, and that can, and will, lead to problems. after all on other ports you want ruby. Now with the WITH_SUBVERSION_RUBY way you have control over the switch on a per port basis and you can override the defaults with a make -E VAR=no or some such thing. > > My make is almost non-existant, so I'm not sure which solution would be > best, though I rather like the && RUBY== "YES" better. nope too general, from a maintenance POV you *want* to control this on a per port basis, going foward you will be much happier. You will have one consistant way to control how the port builds. For some you want X for others you don't. I got this from pkgsrc on netbsd. > > Either way, I have my answer which is, that as things are, it would > involve hacking the Makefile. I would not call this hacking, trimming perhaps. marc -- "We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." -Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD From scottro Wed Aug 31 07:19:03 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:19:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 02:02:58AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 12:01:35AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > this: > > > .if defined(WITH_RUBY) > > > > > > shoud be this: > > > .if (defined(WITH_RUBY) && (WITH_RUBY == "YES")) > > > > > > > I was about to post a followup to this. One of the most knowledgeable > > people on the forums posted an answer quite similar to yours, suggesting > > that the original poster send in a PR, though his suggested syntax was a > > bit different, simply adding an .if defined(WITHOUT_RUBY). > > I disagree, there is no way to unset a set make variable from the > command line, from what I read in the man page, and that can, and > will, lead to problems. after all on other ports you want ruby. Hrrm, I must have not phrased this correctly. The poster on the forums agreed, that there was no way to unset it as it stood, from the command line, and was simply suggesting a possible change to the Makefile. > > I would not call this hacking, trimming perhaps. Say we agree on the word, "editing"? :) Thanks again. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: I'll have you know that I have very, um, many relaxing hobbies. Buffy: Such as? Giles: Well, um...I enjoy cross-referencing. Buffy: Do you stuff your own shirts or do you send 'em out? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFZIn+lTVdes0Z9YRAiyCAJ9QHozXMoWnmGxN0S9uFiJI4Vi9ZACgroHz VlCHSWO4Y5p4dXDhHDR9+cY= =hcST -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sequethin Wed Aug 31 07:33:47 2005 From: sequethin (Mike Hernandez) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:33:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050831042109.GD35219@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> <20050831042109.GD35219@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <3060c2390508310433614e1f66@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > Anyone worked with the Tunnelblick GUI on OS X to get OpenVPN going? If > I can resolve the issues I'm having with it, perhaps I can stick with > OpenVPN and that would be great. > > -T > Actually just yesterday I successfully set up a vpn from my freebsd box at home to my powerbook using openvpn from ports and tunnelblick. I had some issues with my netgear wireless router/firewall at first - it doesn't seem to want to forward udp packets. But with tcp it works fine. I can send you my configs if you want, just let me know. Mike From tillman Wed Aug 31 08:44:46 2005 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 06:44:46 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <3060c2390508310433614e1f66@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> <20050831042109.GD35219@seekingfire.com> <3060c2390508310433614e1f66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831124446.GG35219@seekingfire.com> On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 07:33:47AM -0400, Mike Hernandez wrote: > On 8/31/05, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > Anyone worked with the Tunnelblick GUI on OS X to get OpenVPN going? If > > I can resolve the issues I'm having with it, perhaps I can stick with > > OpenVPN and that would be great. > > Actually just yesterday I successfully set up a vpn from my freebsd > box at home to my powerbook using openvpn from ports and tunnelblick. > I had some issues with my netgear wireless router/firewall at first - > it doesn't seem to want to forward udp packets. But with tcp it works > fine. I can send you my configs if you want, just let me know. I'd appreciate that muchly, thanks. I've normally used simple static shared keys, one per host, and all terminating on the same sparc64 tunnel server running FreeBSD -current from 25 Apr 2005. I tend to upgrade this particular box fairly slowly because of the network disruption it causes. Anyway, Tunnelblick doesn't seem to like static keys and wants to use teh full OpenSSL PKI stuff. I gave it one try, rushed for time and from a remote location where I didn't have easy access to any sort of documentation, and (not surprisingly) it didn't work. The biggest problem is that while I was setting it up I changed the config file a few times by hand in ~/Library/openvpn. But Tunnelblick seems to ignore my changes ... when I edit the configuration from within Tunnelblick (it calls TextEdit to do the dirty work), I get a different version of the file. And that version points to the wrong certificate name, as well as having other errors. It looks like an early version of my config. I looked around but I can't figure out where it's getting this configuration from ... any idea where OpenVPN stores it's config files? The website refers to ~/Library/openvpn, but that seems to be only for storing certificates. -T -- "If 'everybody knows' such-and-such, then it ain't so, by at least ten thousand to one." -- Robert Heinlein From sequethin Wed Aug 31 09:19:31 2005 From: sequethin (Mike Hernandez) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:19:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] road-warrior IPsec setup: looking for references In-Reply-To: <20050831124446.GG35219@seekingfire.com> References: <20050827233315.GB1610@seekingfire.com> <20050828001242.GC1610@seekingfire.com> <20050831042109.GD35219@seekingfire.com> <3060c2390508310433614e1f66@mail.gmail.com> <20050831124446.GG35219@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <3060c23905083106199224c0e@mail.gmail.com> My config is attached. It belongs in ~/Library/openvpn/ I've also created a directory called keys in ~/Library/openvpn where I keep the keys/certs (as you'll see in the config). I've been using the PKI method only because I found a few sites that walked me through it. Maybe you'll find them helpful? http://girasoli.org/?p=30 (probably have seen this link, it was in the openvpn howto) http://blog.innerewut.de/articles/2005/07/04/openvpn-2-0-on-openbsd (this gave some insight even though I'm using freebsd at home) Let me know how it turns out. Mike -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: openvpn.conf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050831/4e9c36dd/attachment.obj From mspitzer Wed Aug 31 10:51:42 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:51:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> Message-ID: <8c50a3c305083107511f74c242@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 02:02:58AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > I was about to post a followup to this. One of the most knowledgeable > > > people on the forums posted an answer quite similar to yours, suggesting > > > that the original poster send in a PR, though his suggested syntax was a > > > bit different, simply adding an .if defined(WITHOUT_RUBY). > > > > I disagree, there is no way to unset a set make variable from the > > command line, from what I read in the man page, and that can, and > > will, lead to problems. after all on other ports you want ruby. > > Hrrm, I must have not phrased this correctly. The poster on the forums > agreed, that there was no way to unset it as it stood, from the command > line, and was simply suggesting a possible change to the Makefile. no you were clear, my issues with WITHOUT_RUBY are the same as WITH_RUBY 1: no way to turn it off, WITHOUT_RUBY=="no" is still defined so the branch is taken. This is generally not how I would expect things to happen, I said no and no is no. 2: too general, it should be WITHOUT_SUBVERSION_RUBY. I might want ruby some where else basically once it is in /etc/make.conf you are screwed with the .if defined(X) method and that is my real problem with it and in the course of an upgrade/install I want to update all installed dependencies I have no control over which individual ports get X and which do not get X, some ports have large dependency trees on other ports and I am stuck with 1 value for all of them. marc -- "We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." -Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD From max Wed Aug 31 10:56:13 2005 From: max (max) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:56:13 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD jails and custom kernels Message-ID: <20050831145613.GA24310@neuropunks.org> Hello, I have a jail question. Can I make custom kernel per jail? Basically, I need COMPAT_LINUX, but I dont feel really good about recompiling the kernel on the host itself, since its a production machine, but it has some jails that I can happily destroy if anything goes wrong. I looked on google, nothing too relevant, and from jail howto's that ive seen, we always link /kernel to /dev/null and use the main host's kernel. I can see why it would be pretty hard to implement, to have a full kernel instance per jail, but im still wondering if its possible. Thanks! max From nomadlogic Wed Aug 31 11:08:12 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:08:12 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD jails and custom kernels In-Reply-To: <20050831145613.GA24310@neuropunks.org> References: <20050831145613.GA24310@neuropunks.org> Message-ID: <57d7100005083108086ba46759@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/05, max wrote: > Hello, > I have a jail question. Can I make custom kernel per jail? > Basically, I need COMPAT_LINUX, but I dont feel really good about recompiling the kernel on the host itself, since its a production machine, but it has some jails that I can happily destroy if anything goes wrong. > I looked on google, nothing too relevant, and from jail howto's that ive seen, we always link /kernel to /dev/null and use the main host's kernel. > I can see why it would be pretty hard to implement, to have a full kernel instance per jail, but im still wondering if its possible. > Thanks! > No you can not make a custom kernel per jail. You can, and often should, make a custom userland per jail as this run's ontop of the host Kernel+Userland. This paper provides a good background on the thoery behind the operation of jails in FreeBSD: http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/papers/jail/jail.html In short, jail's are not a virtual machine they are an extension of the concept of chroot. -pete -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group From max Wed Aug 31 11:12:44 2005 From: max (max) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:12:44 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD jails and custom kernels In-Reply-To: <57d7100005083108086ba46759@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050831145613.GA24310@neuropunks.org> <57d7100005083108086ba46759@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831151244.GA96410@neuropunks.org> Pete, you are totally right, Im aware, i do setup custom userland per jail. Since im stoopid and keep forgetting we dont live in 80's and/or world of monolithic kernels, freebsd linux.ko totally slipped my mind : ) Thanks Mike, Pete. On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 08:08:12AM -0700, pete wright wrote: > On 8/31/05, max wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a jail question. Can I make custom kernel per jail? > > Basically, I need COMPAT_LINUX, but I dont feel really good about recompiling the kernel on the host itself, since its a production machine, but it has some jails that I can happily destroy if anything goes wrong. > > I looked on google, nothing too relevant, and from jail howto's that ive seen, we always link /kernel to /dev/null and use the main host's kernel. > > I can see why it would be pretty hard to implement, to have a full kernel instance per jail, but im still wondering if its possible. > > Thanks! > > > > No you can not make a custom kernel per jail. You can, and often > should, make a custom userland per jail as this run's ontop of the > host Kernel+Userland. > > This paper provides a good background on the thoery behind the > operation of jails in FreeBSD: > > http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/papers/jail/jail.html > > In short, jail's are not a virtual machine they are an extension of > the concept of chroot. > > -pete > > > > > > -- > ~~o0OO0o~~ > Pete Wright > www.nycbug.org > NYC's *BSD User Group > From scottro Wed Aug 31 11:32:31 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:32:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c305083107511f74c242@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083107511f74c242@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831153231.GB11385@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 10:51:42AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hrrm, I must have not phrased this correctly. The poster on the forums > > agreed, that there was no way to unset it as it stood, from the command > > line, and was simply suggesting a possible change to the Makefile. > > no you were clear, my issues with WITHOUT_RUBY are the same as WITH_RUBY > > 1: no way to turn it off, WITHOUT_RUBY=="no" is still defined so the > branch is taken. This is generally not how I would expect things to > happen, I said no and no is no. However, (I've looked through the man pages, and I'm not clear on this, forgive me if it's a stupid question) Suppose he has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf. Now, the subversion Makefile has something like .if defined WITHOUT_RUBY blah blah. Can he do make -DWITHOUT_RUBY install for that one port (/devel/subversion) and keep it for all other ports? What am I missing? Thanks for you patience and help with this. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I can't believe you got into Oxford! Willow: It's pretty exciting. Oz: That's some deep academia there. Buffy: That's where they make Gileses! Willow: I know! I can learn, and have scones! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFc2P+lTVdes0Z9YRAnqFAJ4zweeO0I6RpxF4WqYJx8iPG/jryACgs/l9 wU2aCRl1wPfNZ+4xb7fw9PY= =Sa0v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitzer Wed Aug 31 12:25:08 2005 From: mspitzer (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:25:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <20050831153231.GB11385@uws1.starlofashions.com> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083107511f74c242@mail.gmail.com> <20050831153231.GB11385@uws1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <8c50a3c3050831092541067901@mail.gmail.com> On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 10:51:42AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Hrrm, I must have not phrased this correctly. The poster on the forums > > > agreed, that there was no way to unset it as it stood, from the command > > > line, and was simply suggesting a possible change to the Makefile. > > > > no you were clear, my issues with WITHOUT_RUBY are the same as WITH_RUBY > > > > 1: no way to turn it off, WITHOUT_RUBY=="no" is still defined so the > > branch is taken. This is generally not how I would expect things to > > happen, I said no and no is no. > > However, (I've looked through the man pages, and I'm not clear on this, > forgive me if it's a stupid question) > > Suppose he has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf. Now, the subversion > Makefile has something like .if defined WITHOUT_RUBY blah blah. > > Can he do make -DWITHOUT_RUBY install for that one port > (/devel/subversion) and keep it for all other ports? > > What am I missing? the WITH_X and WITHOUT_X method are: 1: set in a global name space, child processes inherit them, so no fine grained control 2: the .if defined(X) is too coarse, no way to un set X so it can not be turned off. 3: you now need to manage the interaction of 2 chunks of code consistently across all ports. Does without take precedence over with and other questions also. This needs to be done correctly or, if you are lucky, the port will die during build. If you are not lucky you now have flaky code in production and the real fun begins. It is all about managing complexity, I want fine grained control over what is going on , VAR is specific to the port involved, and I want a specific positive action necessary, VAR="YES", to turn something on. This allows me to control my system and not live at work, or groups I help run, because weird shit is happening. I just want things to work quietly so I can go and do fun stuff at work or home. Remember Ports are supposed to be LESS work then tar balls. marc -- "We trained very hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." -Gaius Petronius, 1st Century AD From scottro Wed Aug 31 13:37:59 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:37:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Undefining a variable set in make.conf In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c3050831092541067901@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050831004238.GA24299@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083021014e0ad887@mail.gmail.com> <20050831042121.GB50873@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c3050830230218810769@mail.gmail.com> <20050831111903.GA58117@mail.scottro.net> <8c50a3c305083107511f74c242@mail.gmail.com> <20050831153231.GB11385@uws1.starlofashions.com> <8c50a3c3050831092541067901@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050831173759.GD11913@uws1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 12:25:08PM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 10:51:42AM -0400, Marc Spitzer wrote: > > > On 8/31/05, Scott Robbins wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > > > > 1: no way to turn it off, WITHOUT_RUBY=="no" is still defined so the > > > branch is taken. This is generally not how I would expect things to > > > happen, I said no and no is no. > > > > However, (I've looked through the man pages, and I'm not clear on this, > > forgive me if it's a stupid question) > > > > Suppose he has WITH_RUBY defined in /etc/make.conf. Now, the subversion > > Makefile has something like .if defined WITHOUT_RUBY blah blah. > > > > Can he do make -DWITHOUT_RUBY install for that one port > > (/devel/subversion) and keep it for all other ports? > > > > What am I missing? > > the WITH_X and WITHOUT_X method are: > > 1: set in a global name space, child processes inherit them, so no > fine grained control > > 2: the .if defined(X) is too coarse, no way to un set X so it can not > be turned off. > > 3: you now need to manage the interaction of 2 chunks of code > consistently across all ports. Does without take precedence over with > and other questions also. This needs to be done correctly or, if you > are lucky, the port will die during build. If you are not lucky you > now have flaky code in production and the real fun begins. > > It is all about managing complexity, I want fine grained control over > what is going on , VAR is specific to the port involved, and I want a > specific positive action necessary, VAR="YES", to turn something on. > This allows me to control my system and not live at work, or groups I > help run, because weird shit is happening. I just want things to work > quietly so I can go and do fun stuff at work or home. Remember Ports > are supposed to be LESS work then tar balls. OK, I have a better idea about it now. Thank you very much Marc, for your time with this. - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Willow: I knew it! I knew it! Well, not in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I knew there was something I didn't know. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFer3+lTVdes0Z9YRAga3AKC3992zyHR30J0x+8eCKJyT950AWgCfSiFY 7B9J0CB4zJbIBjYk46SD6ws= =PBkf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Wed Aug 31 18:15:42 2005 From: george (George R.) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:15:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon status Message-ID: <43162C0E.3020208@sddi.net> Things are moving along for September 17th NYCBSDCon. The speaker list has solidified, and it's a great line-up, particularly for a hastily organized day conference. Max and Nathan are taking care of a/v for the conference. We have some people trying to pull the technical press to the event, although that usually doesn't happen first time 'round. On the NYCBSDCon www site, there is a PDF for download so others can spread the news. These need to get into TekServe, Computer Book Works, internet cafes, etc. http://nycbsdcon.org/downloads/NYCBSDCon_flyer.pdf Send out an email to your technical contacts and let them know. Let's not keep this a secret. We'll be putting out another press release in the next week or so, but everyone should remember that we will NOT have an Apple Store meeting September on the first Wednesday of the month. If you haven't looked over the details of the event, check out www.nycbsdcon.org. And if you haven't registered, I strongly recommend you do so now. g From lists Wed Aug 31 18:32:42 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:32:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Que and Sams Open Source User Group Newsletter Message-ID: <20050831183242.269e457b@genoverly.com> ----------------------------------------------------------- Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:53:46 -0500 Subject: Que and Sams Open Source User Group Newsletter ------------------------------------------------------------- --- Welcome to the Que and Sams Open Source User Group Newsletter ---------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the Que and Sams User Group Newsletter, we will bring you up to date on our new publications and special promotions each month. This newsletter is designed to draw Que and Sams Publishing closer to our user groups and user groups closer to us. 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Battle of the Movie-Making Tools: Why Windows XP Movie Maker 2 Beats Apple's iMovie HD By Matthew David Aug 19, 2005 http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=377090 2. Get Organized with Word's Outline Tools By Peter G. Aitken Aug 19, 2005 http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=404839 3. Strategies for Adding Home Automation Features By Mark Soper Aug 19, 2005 http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=398089 4.. Exploring ISA Server 2004 Tools and Concepts Aug 15, 2005 http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=410690 5. Moving About the File System Aug 15, 2005 http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=410278 See All Chapters & Articles http://www.samspublishing.com/articles/index.asp From george Wed Aug 31 20:48:23 2005 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:48:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] on using the fluxbox WM Message-ID: <20050901004823.GB18977@sta.duo> After the recent WM discussion I thought I'd give the lightweight fluxbox windomanager a spin. There is one feature I can't work out of the docs though. I run some applications from xinitrc before I start fluxbox, at least one of them I want to run without a border, no grab handles nothing. It would seem the ToggleDecor Window Operation would do the trick, but I only see that as a key bindings option. Is there some way to disable decorations on a particular app, automatically? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator < http://galis.org/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From scottro Wed Aug 31 21:03:36 2005 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:03:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] on using the fluxbox WM In-Reply-To: <20050901004823.GB18977@sta.duo> References: <20050901004823.GB18977@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050901010336.GA77206@mail.scottro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 08:48:23PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > After the recent WM discussion I thought I'd give the lightweight > fluxbox windomanager a spin. > > There is one feature I can't work out of the docs though. > > I run some applications from xinitrc before I start fluxbox, at > least one of them I want to run without a border, no grab handles > nothing. > > It would seem the ToggleDecor Window Operation would do the trick, > but I only see that as a key bindings option. Is there some way > to disable decorations on a particular app, automatically? Yes. Oh, you want the answer? Sheesh, I thought you were just asking if it could be done. :) I'm assuming you're running the devel version, that is, something like 0.9.12 or whatever. Let's say the app is aterm. Create, if it isn't in your $HOME/.fluxbox directory already, a file called apps [app] (aterm) [Deco] {NONE} [end] > Hopefully it's clear in the email, the word aterm is in normal parentheses and NONE is in curly braces. BTW, that's covered on my fluxbox page. http://home.nyc.rr.com/computertaijutsu/fluxbox.html - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Every time you show up like this, you risk all your parts, you know that? Spike: I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a good reason. As usual, I'm here to help you and I... are you naked under there? Buffy: Get out. Spike: No, I'm serious. I mean, not about the naked part... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFDFlNo+lTVdes0Z9YRAsuqAJ9Rt/C5Jd0xtk3dMWF1V5hzhBJm0ACfXtN0 cHspGlp05+LOpAOFy/nK5ec= =k001 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists Wed Aug 31 21:07:02 2005 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:07:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] on using the fluxbox WM In-Reply-To: <20050901004823.GB18977@sta.duo> References: <20050901004823.GB18977@sta.duo> Message-ID: <20050831210702.1297a275@genoverly.com> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:48:23 -0400 "George Georgalis" wrote: > After the recent WM discussion I thought I'd give the lightweight > fluxbox windomanager a spin. > > There is one feature I can't work out of the docs though. > > I run some applications from xinitrc before I start fluxbox, at > least one of them I want to run without a border, no grab handles > nothing. > > It would seem the ToggleDecor Window Operation would do the trick, > but I only see that as a key bindings option. Is there some way > to disable decorations on a particular app, automatically? > > // George > It is not fluxbox specific, but, Eterm has switches for that, if that is the app to which you are referring. You can execute if from xinitrc or from your menu as an item. To get a transparent window with yellow text: {Eterm --borderless --buttonbar 0 --trans --shade 0 --scrollbar false -f yellow --font-fx none} Except for your cursor, the window completely disappears. You can use [CTRL] drag-left-mouse-button to move it around and [CTRL] drag-right-mouse-button to change the shape. Go Fluxbox! Michael From nomadlogic Wed Aug 31 21:51:07 2005 From: nomadlogic (pete wright) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:51:07 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd in kernel pppoe stability Message-ID: <57d7100005083118515dece433@mail.gmail.com> hey all, i've been running my soekris box with openbsd to connect to my dsl router (which is in bridged mode) for my main 'net connect. i've been having *serious* connectivity problems, so bad in fact I've got a cron running every five min's to check my pppoe interface. if it's down it bring's it back up (does the whole ppp authentication dance). yuck! i was assuming that in kernel pppoe would be better than using a userland implementation. i'm hoping that i'm still correct, my first assumption is that covad sucks and so does my dsl router. but before i waste a night on the phone with covad, has anyone had any stability issues with 3.7 and in kernel pppoe setups? i'm using a real vanilia setup...pretty much strait from the man page. nothing crazy going on in pf land either...some filtering and redirection..... thx -p -- ~~o0OO0o~~ Pete Wright www.nycbug.org NYC's *BSD User Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20050831/d0839096/attachment.html From bruno Wed Aug 31 23:12:27 2005 From: bruno (bruno) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 23:12:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] openbsd in kernel pppoe stability In-Reply-To: <57d7100005083118515dece433@mail.gmail.com> References: <57d7100005083118515dece433@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050901031227.GY28132@loftmail.com> On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 06:51:07PM -0700, pete wright wrote: > hey all, > i've been running my soekris box with openbsd to connect to my dsl router > (which is in bridged mode) for my main 'net connect. i've been having > *serious* connectivity problems, so bad in fact I've got a cron running > every five min's to check my pppoe interface. if it's down it bring's it > back up (does the whole ppp authentication dance). yuck! i was assuming that > in kernel pppoe would be better than using a userland implementation. i'm > hoping that i'm still correct, my first assumption is that covad sucks and > so does my dsl router. but before i waste a night on the phone with covad, > has anyone had any stability issues with 3.7 and in kernel pppoe setups? i'm > using a real vanilia setup...pretty much strait from the man page. nothing > crazy going on in pf land either...some filtering and redirection..... Check the misc list, there is a lot of posts about same / similar subject, you might find something that you can use there. I've only done userland ppp, a while ago, probably before they put pppd into kernel, maybe try that one. Unless your email means you already went from userland to kernel, in hope it would work better. :) At that point, it might indeed be something else, like a crapy dsl bridge. Have you tried sniffing the local net, might give some insight.