From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  2 09:58:07 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:58:07 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] January meeting
Message-ID: <477BA67F.1040600@ceetonetechnology.com>

FYI. . .

No meeting tonight. . . it will be held January 9th.

http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/announce/2008-January/000142.html

George


From techneck at goldenpath.org  Wed Jan  2 12:05:05 2008
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:05:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Proof that road runner sucks?
In-Reply-To: <3cc535c80712230938v263f671j27c4e0cd8416e0ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <476D9B7E.5070205@neuropunks.org>	<20071223090034.2bac3ec1@openpad.genoverly.com>
	<3cc535c80712230938v263f671j27c4e0cd8416e0ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477BC441.3010902@goldenpath.org>

Andy Kosela wrote:
> On Dec 23, 2007 3:00 PM, michael <lists at genoverly.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:19:26 -0500
>> Max Gribov <max at neuropunks.org> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> So my cable connection is really slow. Calling Road Runner is
>>> pointless, because ive already turned off and on my cable modem.
>>> So i decided to tcpdump on the wire directly from cable modem to my
>>> laptop. Heres some interesting tcpdump..
>>>
>>>       
>> [snip]
>>     
>>> we can see arp requests by rr.com router for someone called
>>> cpe-68-174-122-163.nyc.res.rr.com. OK i can understand that, even if
>>> it makes those requests several times a second making my connection
>>> crap. What i dont understand is how mindspring.com got there.
>>> Obviously, im lacking knowledge of cable networks to comprehend
>>> something this crazy. And more to the point of why rr sucks:
>>>
>>>       
>> [snip]
>>     
>>> look at the times of those arps. Now consider the fact that their
>>> network is doing this all the time, at least today - dozens of arp
>>> requests per second.
>>>
>>> I guess besides complaining about paying for crappy service, can
>>> anyone shed light on why would i see so much arp traffic, and why
>>> would there be mindspring arp traffic?..
>>>
>>> Just venting, really.. happy holidays!
>>>       
>> I noticed the same thing here, when I first got my hookup.  There was
>> a lot of mindspring and earthlink arp traffic.  I just did a quick dump
>> this morning (I dumped with -n to prevent dns traffic) and found around
>> 1000 arp requests in 60 seconds.  A little grep, awk, and sort shows
>> that it is concentrated to only a few sources.
>>
>> I also found (well, google found) that we are not the first ones to
>> notice and it is not specific to our geography.
>>     
>
> Using cable modem means you share a network with all other
> subscribers. In concept it's very similar to LAN network - that's why
> you see all those ARP's.
> Cable modems are transmitting Ethernet broadcast packets to every
> subscriber on the neighborhood - this is definetly a big security
> risk. In LAN's
> the way to prevent those type of broadcast flooding is to employ
> VLAN's logically separating traffic.
>
> The ARP problem will be solved by the next-generation cable modems
> that implement the DOCSIS 1.1 protocol. Instead of broadcasting ARP
> packets over the entire cable segment, DOCSIS 1.1 makes sure that each
> customer will only see the ARP messages intended for his or her
> machine. As an added protection, DOCSIS 1.1 is also capable of
> encrypting all information sent over the cable itself, with a separate
> encryption key for each customer. This security measure prevents an
> attacker from splicing their own cable modem into the backbone, the
> way that some people used to hook up unauthorized cable decoders to
> get free cable TV service.

The CM (Cable Modem) does alot more interesting communications that you 
might not be aware of than this example.

The broadcast traffic is completely normal, even in 1.1. And that is not 
what's effecting the speed issues.
Actually, they're (Time Warner, and everyone else) already up to 1.1, 
and implementing 2.0 in some areas.
The security features are optional and administratively burdensome. So, 
there's still alot of 1.1 deployment that doesn't turn it on.

Max's problem is probably related to Cable Modem or line issues.
You can probably pull diagnostics up on 192.168.100.1 though its not 
going to say much of anything useful to you.
Time Warner had serious issues over the past 2 weeks throughout the 
North East, and specifically in NYC.
If all that happened is it "slowed down" for you, consider yourself lucky.
Mine and many others were out for a week. (Thankfully, I have Optimum at 
the other house, so spent the time there.)
Locally, the most you can do is check the RF power signal and noise 
levels and be certain your layer 1 gear & layout is ok (cable, 
connectors, taps / splitters / amplifiers).

I've always found my Cable Modem fascinating. Mainly, because it's 
shrouded in so much mystery.
The DOCSIS specification itself stipulates that IP and ethernet bridging 
operate transparently to CM/CMTS host communications, and that you and I 
(as the users) are not to have access to the Control or Management 
interfaces. You might get read access through the ethernet interface, 
but you won't get write access.
Read/Write access is only available via the RF and on-board test interfaces.
You may find an on-board TTL interface that with a TTL-to-Serial adapter 
will give CLI access to the (probably) vxworks OS.
There should also be a JTAG port for directly accessing the boards 
components.

All very appealing to the rebel in me. But there's good reason for these 
end user restrictions.
While it's nice to get in there and play around for shits & giggles. I 
wouldn't want every twit out there wrecking havoc on my Cable segment.
While uncapping is not possible in most providers networks anymore 
(Traffic Shaping, duh!), there's still a good bit of trouble you can 
cause if you wanted to.

One interesting project I've not gotten around to yet (still looking for 
the part: DOCSIS PCI card with linux / bsd drivers) is building an NSM 
box with a RF / DOCSIS interface tapped into the coax before the CM.
Then, not only could you monitor the IP and bridged ethernet traffic 
that reaches the eth port, but also the control and management CM/CMTS 
host traffic that's only visible via the RF port.

CM & CMTS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_modem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMTS

Specifications:
http://www.cablemodem.com/
http://www.cablemodem.com/specifications/specifications11.html
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From dan at langille.org  Wed Jan  2 16:51:08 2008
From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:51:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
Message-ID: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org>

Hi folks,

I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm 
tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:

- drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
- drive, then train
- drive, get a lift with someone else

I'd be coming up 95 from the south and getting onto 78E (NJ turnpike) 
and into the Holland tunnel.  If I was to train part of the way, what 
would your recommendation be?

thanks

-- 
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/


From mspitzer at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 18:17:53 2008
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:17:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org>
References: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30801021517v2e8e9a70w8d8c610c1060621a@mail.gmail.com>

I dont have specifics, but be careful of NJ commuter trains, they tend
to stop running early from what I have heard.  Look into amtrack.

marc

On Jan 2, 2008 4:51 PM, Dan Langille <dan at langille.org> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm
> tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:
>
> - drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
> - drive, then train
> - drive, get a lift with someone else
>
> I'd be coming up 95 from the south and getting onto 78E (NJ turnpike)
> and into the Holland tunnel.  If I was to train part of the way, what
> would your recommendation be?
>
> thanks
>
> --
> Dan Langille
>
> BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
> PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From marco at metm.org  Thu Jan  3 01:51:17 2008
From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:51:17 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org>
References: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org>
Message-ID: <477C85E5.5090900@metm.org>

Hi Dan,

I take NJ transit many times a week.  It is much cheaper than Amtrak and 
more frequent, the Trenton line runs on the same rails as the Amtrak NE 
Corridor for much of the trip:

http://www.njtransit.com/  (can't link to the schedule, they use cookies 
I guess)

I would recommend taking an express NJ Transit from Trenton, Driving on 
the NJ Turnpike is exhausting on a good day and often a total 
nightmare.  Plus if you are coming in the evenings you will be going 
against the commute like me so you always get a good seat...

Good Luck,

-- 
Marco

Dan Langille wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm 
> tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:
>
> - drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
> - drive, then train
> - drive, get a lift with someone else
>
> I'd be coming up 95 from the south and getting onto 78E (NJ turnpike) 
> and into the Holland tunnel.  If I was to train part of the way, what 
> would your recommendation be?
>
> thanks
>
>   



From trish at bsdunix.net  Thu Jan  3 05:41:57 2008
From: trish at bsdunix.net (=?utf-8?B?VHJpc2ggTHluY2g=?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:41:57 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <477C85E5.5090900@metm.org>
References: <477C074C.5060602@langille.org><477C85E5.5090900@metm.org>
Message-ID: <1402113517-1199356925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-688340086-@bxe011.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I concur - NJ transit runs pretty much all night too, contrary to popular belief - though if you need crash space - you can call me and crash up here in the Bronx. (I generally don't come to meetings because of familial obligations - though let me know if you do come in, I'll try and find a babysitter)

-Trish
-- 
Trish Lynch
M: 646-401-1405
H: 201-378-0434  

-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Scoffier <marco at metm.org>

Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:51:17 
To:Dan Langille <dan at langille.org>
Cc:talk at lists.nycbug.org
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State


Hi Dan,

I take NJ transit many times a week.  It is much cheaper than Amtrak and
more frequent, the Trenton line runs on the same rails as the Amtrak NE
Corridor for much of the trip:

http://www.njtransit.com/  (can't link to the schedule, they use cookies
I guess)

I would recommend taking an express NJ Transit from Trenton, Driving on
the NJ Turnpike is exhausting on a good day and often a total
nightmare.  Plus if you are coming in the evenings you will be going
against the commute like me so you always get a good seat...

Good Luck,

--
Marco

Dan Langille wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm
> tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:
>
> - drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
> - drive, then train
> - drive, get a lift with someone else
>
> I'd be coming up 95 from the south and getting onto 78E (NJ turnpike)
> and into the Holland tunnel.  If I was to train part of the way, what
> would your recommendation be?
>
> thanks
>
>

_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

From nycbug at cyth.net  Thu Jan  3 10:29:21 2008
From: nycbug at cyth.net (Ray Lai)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:29:21 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 in New York
Message-ID: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>

Google ads pointed me to http://us.ntt.net/.  Anyone know anything
about these guys?  Here is their IPv6 page:
http://us.ntt.net/products/ipv6/

-Ray-


From techneck at goldenpath.org  Thu Jan  3 15:43:50 2008
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:43:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 in New York
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477D4906.5090301@goldenpath.org>

They're big, like the Japanese AT&T:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Telegraph_and_Telephone

Figures it'd be a Japanese company.
Meet your IPv6 masters! (bow)

Same thing I found when I looked for IPv6 ISPs (in America) a while back.
Haven't done much with it. Everyone else I ask about IPv6, though, is 
just like "yea, let us get back to you on that."
NTT is the only one publicly offering it in America as far as I know.

No big deal though, right? Who needs IPv6? Running out of IPv4 addresses 
is a good thing (they go up in value!) ... er, wait a sec...

Ray Lai wrote:
> Google ads pointed me to http://us.ntt.net/.  Anyone know anything
> about these guys?  Here is their IPv6 page:
> http://us.ntt.net/products/ipv6/
>
> -Ray-
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>   



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan  3 16:18:50 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:18:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 in New York
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477D513A.7040107@ceetonetechnology.com>

Ray Lai wrote:
> Google ads pointed me to http://us.ntt.net/.  Anyone know anything
> about these guys?  Here is their IPv6 page:
> http://us.ntt.net/products/ipv6/
> 
> -Ray-

yeah. . . NTT as in Verio.  You know *them*, right Ray?

There's a recent BSDNews article on it. . .

g


From skreuzer at exit2shell.com  Thu Jan  3 16:32:07 2008
From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:32:07 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] 4 Root Name Servers go IPv6
Message-ID: <20080103213207.GA7208@scruffy.exit2shell.com>

Greetings-

I was going to reply to Ray's email, but I figured even though it was
related to IPv6, its offtopic enough from his question to start a new
thread.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080102-icann-to-add-ipv6-addresses-for-root-dns-servers.html

>From the article:

Just before year's end, ICANN/IANA sent out a short message saying that
"on 4 February 2008, IANA will add AAAA records for the IPv6 addresses
of the four root servers whose operators have requested it." The
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is mostly
responsible for the global Domain Name System, the Internet Assigned
Numbers Authority (IANA) is the part of ICANN. That means that as of
February 4, 2008, it will (theoretically) be possible for two IPv6 hosts
to communicate across the IPv6 Internet without having to rely on any
IPv4 infrastructure

We may be getting closer to being able to ping6 your microwave
from your iphone

--
Steven Kreuzer
http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer


From jkeen at verizon.net  Thu Jan  3 18:49:57 2008
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:49:57 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1199379610.4460.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1199379610.4460.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
Message-ID: <ECFD485C-B907-4962-9047-0A6841CDD142@verizon.net>


Dan Langille wrote:

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:51:08 -0500
> From:
> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
> To: talk at lists.nycbug.org
> Message-ID: <477C074C.5060602 at langille.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm
> tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:
>
> - drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
> - drive, then train

Given that our meeting site, Suspenders, is just a few blocks from  
the World Trade Center, if you're coming by train you can take NJ  
Transit/Amtrak to Newark and transfer there to the PATH train to  
WTC.  It will be < 10 minutes walk to restaurant and enable you to  
avoid taking subway from NYC Penn Station in midtown.


From carton at Ivy.NET  Thu Jan  3 23:01:13 2008
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:01:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] 4 Root Name Servers go IPv6
In-Reply-To: <20080103213207.GA7208@scruffy.exit2shell.com> (Steven Kreuzer's
	message of "Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:32:07 -0500")
References: <20080103213207.GA7208@scruffy.exit2shell.com>
Message-ID: <oq1w8ydyt2.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

castrovalva:~$ for t in {a..m}; do dig ${t}.root-servers.net +noall +answer aaaa; done
castrovalva:~$ for t in {a..m}; do dig ${t}.gtld-servers.net +noall +answer aaaa; done
a.gtld-servers.net.     149310  IN      AAAA    2001:503:a83e::2:30
b.gtld-servers.net.     149310  IN      AAAA    2001:503:231d::2:30
castrovalva:~$ dig tld1.ultradns.net aaaa +noall +answer
tld1.ultradns.net.      86364   IN      AAAA    2001:502:d399::1

so, not for the root servers, but for .com, .net, and .org there is
AAAA DNS already.
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From bonsaime at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 12:13:01 2008
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:13:01 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <ECFD485C-B907-4962-9047-0A6841CDD142@verizon.net>
References: <mailman.3.1199379610.4460.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
	<ECFD485C-B907-4962-9047-0A6841CDD142@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <aa9991030801040913p5e3f332ds3d47163eb8caf6b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 3, 2008 6:49 PM, James E Keenan <jkeen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Dan Langille wrote:
>
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:51:08 -0500
> > From:
> > Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
> > To: talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > Message-ID: <477C074C.5060602 at langille.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I now live in Warrington, PA.  That's about 2 hours from NYC.  I'm
> > tempted to come into the meetings.  I'm looking at options:
> >
> > - drive all the way there, roughly 2.5 hours
> > - drive, then train
>
> Given that our meeting site, Suspenders, is just a few blocks from
> the World Trade Center, if you're coming by train you can take NJ
> Transit/Amtrak to Newark and transfer there to the PATH train to
> WTC.  It will be < 10 minutes walk to restaurant and enable you to
> avoid taking subway from NYC Penn Station in midtown.
>


Good suggestion. This is a real time saver, Dan.

-jesse


From marco at metm.org  Fri Jan  4 12:46:33 2008
From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:46:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <aa9991030801040913p5e3f332ds3d47163eb8caf6b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1199379610.4460.talk@lists.nycbug.org>	<ECFD485C-B907-4962-9047-0A6841CDD142@verizon.net>
	<aa9991030801040913p5e3f332ds3d47163eb8caf6b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477E70F9.1070606@metm.org>

Jesse Callaway wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2008 6:49 PM, James E Keenan <jkeen at verizon.net> wrote:
>   
>> Given that our meeting site, Suspenders, is just a few blocks from
>> the World Trade Center, if you're coming by train you can take NJ
>> Transit/Amtrak to Newark and transfer there to the PATH train to
>> WTC.  It will be < 10 minutes walk to restaurant and enable you to
>> avoid taking subway from NYC Penn Station in midtown.
>>
>>     
>
>
> Good suggestion. This is a real time saver, Dan.
>   
Hmm.  I beg to differ but I think the PATH from newark to world trade 
takes quite a while like >30mins whereas NJT from Newark to Penn Station 
is fast  <10mins, and then you can catch any A/C or 2/3 downtown to 
Fulton St. (very frequent trains) to be the same walking distance from 
Suspenders.


I haven't taken the PATH very often, but the times I have it seems slow 
and infrequent compared to the New York subway A/C or 2/3 lines.

Have you had a better experience with the PATH ?

-- 
Marco



From bonsaime at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 13:26:05 2008
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:26:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Getting to the meeting from out of State
In-Reply-To: <477E70F9.1070606@metm.org>
References: <mailman.3.1199379610.4460.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
	<ECFD485C-B907-4962-9047-0A6841CDD142@verizon.net>
	<aa9991030801040913p5e3f332ds3d47163eb8caf6b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<477E70F9.1070606@metm.org>
Message-ID: <aa9991030801041026k7df77725k63f50a0c12dd05a0@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 4, 2008 12:46 PM, Marco Scoffier <marco at metm.org> wrote:
> Jesse Callaway wrote:
> > On Jan 3, 2008 6:49 PM, James E Keenan <jkeen at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Given that our meeting site, Suspenders, is just a few blocks from
> >> the World Trade Center, if you're coming by train you can take NJ
> >> Transit/Amtrak to Newark and transfer there to the PATH train to
> >> WTC.  It will be < 10 minutes walk to restaurant and enable you to
> >> avoid taking subway from NYC Penn Station in midtown.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Good suggestion. This is a real time saver, Dan.
> >
> Hmm.  I beg to differ but I think the PATH from newark to world trade
> takes quite a while like >30mins whereas NJT from Newark to Penn Station
> is fast  <10mins, and then you can catch any A/C or 2/3 downtown to
> Fulton St. (very frequent trains) to be the same walking distance from
> Suspenders.
>
>
> I haven't taken the PATH very often, but the times I have it seems slow
> and infrequent compared to the New York subway A/C or 2/3 lines.
>
> Have you had a better experience with the PATH ?
>
> --
> Marco
>
>

You know, I've never timed it between the two. I can't truthfully
confirm this. Ya got me!

-jesse


From jkeen at verizon.net  Fri Jan  4 18:58:35 2008
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:58:35 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Parrot virtual machine project on BSD
Message-ID: <FA75D379-257F-4FD2-9F99-58A2A9906362@verizon.net>

Fellow NYCBUG folks:

New years greetings from the Parrot project (http:// 
www.parrotcode.org/).  Parrot, a virtual machine designed to  
efficiently compile and execute bytecode for dynamic languages, has  
been the major focus of my open source development efforts for the  
last year, and I'd like to have other NYCBUG members take a look at  
Parrot.

Parrot has had a strong spurt in its development in the last month  
(http://use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/35272), but our development  
efforts on BSD are not as strong as those on Linux and Win32.  We're  
getting nightly smoke testing on FreeBSD and Dragonfly and  
intermittent smoking on Darwin.  But we don't have any smoking on  
NetBSD or OpenBSD.  Outside of BSD, we have some smoke testing on  
Solaris, but none currently on AIX, Irix, HPUX or other Unices.   And  
we could really use some people who are even moderately knowledgeable  
about compilers on any of those OSes.

I'd be interested in speaking with any one who can make a non-Linux  
*nix box available for regular smoke testing of Parrot.  And if  
you're looking to contribute to a major open source project, I'd be  
even *more* interested in speaking with you.  I plan to attend this  
Wednesday's meeting and look forward to speaking with any and all.

Thank you very much.

Jim Keenan



From quigongene at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 09:24:54 2008
From: quigongene at gmail.com (gene cronk)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:24:54 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 in New York
In-Reply-To: <477D513A.7040107@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <7765c0380801030729l74ed6f94s8014f8e78d50766d@mail.gmail.com>
	<477D513A.7040107@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <7bb72ca70801070624m23c68b13i90731c46287ca640@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 3, 2008 4:18 PM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:

> Ray Lai wrote:
> > Google ads pointed me to http://us.ntt.net/.  Anyone know anything
> > about these guys?  Here is their IPv6 page:
> > http://us.ntt.net/products/ipv6/
> >
> > -Ray-
>
> yeah. . . NTT as in Verio.  You know *them*, right Ray?
>
> There's a recent BSDNews article on it. . .
>
> g
>

I, for one, welcome our new Japanese overlords.  (Sorry, had to).

--Gene
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  9 10:54:47 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:54:47 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Tonight's meeting location change
Message-ID: <4784EE47.2020907@ceetonetechnology.com>

We apologize for the inconvenience, but tonight's meeting will be held 
at Pilosoft at 55 Broad Street instead of the usual Suspenders.

More info, including directions, in the announce post:

http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/announce/2008-January/000144.html

It's just a few blocks away.

But you're already on that list :)

George


From swygue at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 16:22:27 2008
From: swygue at gmail.com (Rodrique Heron)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:22:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
Message-ID: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>

Guys-

I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 
6.2.  I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote 
server, but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf

host_ip="192.168.2.4"
remote_server="192.168.2.6"

rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server

pass in quick all
pass out quick all

Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look for.

Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.


Any ideas ?

Thanks



From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Jan  9 16:37:32 2008
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 16:37:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
In-Reply-To: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
References: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>

On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:22 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
> Guys-
> 
> I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 
> 6.2.  I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote 
> server, but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf
> 
> host_ip="192.168.2.4"
> remote_server="192.168.2.6"
> 
> rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server
> 
> pass in quick all
> pass out quick all
> 
> Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
> think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look for.
> 
> Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
> rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.
> 
> 
> Any ideas ?

where is $remote_server, network-wise?


From rodrique_heron at baruch.cuny.edu  Wed Jan  9 16:42:59 2008
From: rodrique_heron at baruch.cuny.edu (Rodrique Heron)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:42:59 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>
References: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
	<20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>
Message-ID: <20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>



Okan Demirmen wrote:
> On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:22 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
>   
>> Guys-
>>
>> I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 
>> 6.2.  I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote 
>> server, but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf
>>
>> host_ip="192.168.2.4"
>> remote_server="192.168.2.6"
>>
>> rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server
>>
>> pass in quick all
>> pass out quick all
>>
>> Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
>> think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look for.
>>
>> Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
>> rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.
>>
>>
>> Any ideas ?
>>     
>
> where is $remote_server, network-wise?
>   

$remote_server is in the same broadcast domain if that's what you mean. 
Both servers are plugged into the same stack.

> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>   


From skreuzer at exit2shell.com  Wed Jan  9 17:12:05 2008
From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:12:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>
References: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
	<20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>
	<20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>
Message-ID: <20080109221205.GA55963@scruffy.exit2shell.com>

On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:42:59PM -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
> 
> 
> Okan Demirmen wrote:
> > On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:22 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
> >   
> >> Guys-
> >>
> >> I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 
> >> 6.2.  I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote 
> >> server, but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf
> >>
> >> host_ip="192.168.2.4"
> >> remote_server="192.168.2.6"
> >>
> >> rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server
> >>
> >> pass in quick all
> >> pass out quick all
> >>
> >> Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
> >> think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look for.
> >>
> >> Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
> >> rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.
> >>
> >>
> >> Any ideas ?
> >>     
> >
> > where is $remote_server, network-wise?
> >   
> 
> $remote_server is in the same broadcast domain if that's what you mean. 
> Both servers are plugged into the same stack.
> 

Stupid question: Are you sure sshd is listening on 192.168.2.6, and there
is no firewall rule on 192.168.2.6 blocking traffic from 192.168.2.4

-- 
Steven Kreuzer
http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer


From rodrique_heron at baruch.cuny.edu  Wed Jan  9 17:14:34 2008
From: rodrique_heron at baruch.cuny.edu (Rodrique Heron)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:14:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20080109221205.GA55963@scruffy.exit2shell.com>
References: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
	<20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>
	<20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>
	<20080109221205.GA55963@scruffy.exit2shell.com>
Message-ID: <20080109220610.E286915EC1C@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>



Steven Kreuzer wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:42:59PM -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
>   
>> Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>     
>>> On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:22 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Guys-
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 
>>>> 6.2.  I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote 
>>>> server, but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf
>>>>
>>>> host_ip="192.168.2.4"
>>>> remote_server="192.168.2.6"
>>>>
>>>> rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server
>>>>
>>>> pass in quick all
>>>> pass out quick all
>>>>
>>>> Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
>>>> think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look for.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
>>>> rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas ?
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> where is $remote_server, network-wise?
>>>   
>>>       
>> $remote_server is in the same broadcast domain if that's what you mean. 
>> Both servers are plugged into the same stack.
>>
>>     
>
> Stupid question: Are you sure sshd is listening on 192.168.2.6, and there
> is no firewall rule on 192.168.2.6 blocking traffic from 192.168.2.4
>   
Positively sure, I can ssh from 192.168.2.4 to 192.168.2.6 with no problems.




From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Jan  9 18:06:24 2008
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:06:24 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Is PF rdr broken in 6.2
In-Reply-To: <20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>
References: <47853B13.3070109@gmail.com>
	<20080109213732.GN13946@clam.khaoz.org>
	<20080109213436.57C8715EC7B@smtp25.baruch.cuny.edu>
Message-ID: <20080109230624.GP13946@clam.khaoz.org>

On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:42 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
>
>
> Okan Demirmen wrote:
>> On Wed 2008.01.09 at 16:22 -0500, Rodrique Heron wrote:
>>   
>>> Guys-
>>>
>>> I'm trying to accomplish a very simple redirect using PF on FreeBSD 6.2.  
>>> I want to forward all incoming port 22 connections to a remote server, 
>>> but can't get it to work. I have this in /etc/pf.conf
>>>
>>> host_ip="192.168.2.4"
>>> remote_server="192.168.2.6"
>>>
>>> rdr on em0 proto tcp from any to $host_ip port 22 -> $remote_server
>>>
>>> pass in quick all
>>> pass out quick all
>>>
>>> Forwarding is enabled (net.inet.ip.forwarding: 1) even though I don't 
>>> think I need it, tcpdump shows traffic, but I'm not sure what to look 
>>> for.
>>>
>>> Also, I have a jail on this server, if I enabled it and change the rdr 
>>> rule to redirect to the jail address it works fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any ideas ?
>>>     
>>
>> where is $remote_server, network-wise?
>>   
>
> $remote_server is in the same broadcast domain if that's what you mean. 
> Both servers are plugged into the same stack.

oh of course :) if i had read your macros, it would have been obivous...

in any case, you can't do what you are trying to do, rdr to another
host not behind pf(4) - rdr is a translation.


From nikolai at fetissov.org  Thu Jan 10 13:06:28 2008
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:06:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] January 2008 meeting audio
Message-ID: <20612.204.153.88.2.1199988388.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>

Folks,

Audio of Angelos' SSARES talk is available at
http://www.fetissov.org/public/nycbug/

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai


From jim at zaah.com  Thu Jan 10 13:17:12 2008
From: jim at zaah.com (Jim Cassata)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:17:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
Message-ID: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site IPSEC
VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good reference
materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
wizard on user's XP laptops.

Thanks,

Jim Cassata


From nycbug at cyth.net  Thu Jan 10 13:25:23 2008
From: nycbug at cyth.net (Ray Lai)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:25:23 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site IPSEC
> VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good reference
> materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> wizard on user's XP laptops.

Here is a talk given by msf@ about IPsec improvements, including the
steps to set up IPsec on Windows:

http://openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon07-ipsec/

-Ray-


From lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org  Thu Jan 10 13:29:26 2008
From: lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org (Brian A. Seklecki)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:29:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080110132704.A66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>




On Thu, 10 Jan 2008, Jim Cassata wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site IPSEC
> VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good reference
> materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> wizard on user's XP laptops.

ipsec-tools has made confirmed progress talking to hybrid-xauth clients 
(w/ PAM & RADIUS, etc.) such as Cisco.  I'm not sure where isakmpd(8) 
stands, but development is equally charged.

isakmpd(8) works great for P2P or L2L tunnel subnets, with exception of 
that nasty "IPSEC encapsualtion happens before local directly attached 
subnets are evaluated when unequal length subnets are define" bug --- but 
there is a work-around for that.

~BAS


From bonsaime at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:43:10 2008
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:43:10 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>
References: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa9991030801101043w10f8eed2mf306814b424f5a73@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 10, 2008 1:25 PM, Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site IPSEC
> > VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good reference
> > materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> > client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> > wizard on user's XP laptops.
>
> Here is a talk given by msf@ about IPsec improvements, including the
> steps to set up IPsec on Windows:
>
> http://openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon07-ipsec/
>
> -Ray-
>

Ah! If only I'd seen these drunk kitties earlier! Thanks Ray... (er msf!)

-jesse


From carton at Ivy.NET  Thu Jan 10 18:16:20 2008
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 18:16:20 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <20080110132704.A66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org> (Brian A.
	Seklecki's message of "Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:29:26 -0500 (EST)")
References: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20080110132704.A66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
Message-ID: <oqtzll9sqj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "bas" == Brian A Seklecki <lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org> writes:

   bas> ipsec-tools has made confirmed progress talking to
   bas> hybrid-xauth clients (w/ PAM & RADIUS, etc.) such as Cisco.
   bas> I'm not sure where isakmpd(8) stands, but development is
   bas> equally charged.

hybrid-xauth a.k.a. ``Mutual Group Authentication'' is (correct me if
I'm wrong) the Cisco VPN Dialer feature that arranges things so
individual road warriors don't have enough information loaded into VPN
Dialer configs on their laptops to impersonate the central head-end
server and start collecting the passwords of other employees.

   bas> isakmpd(8) works great for P2P or L2L tunnel subnets, with
   bas> exception of that nasty "IPSEC encapsualtion happens before
   bas> local directly attached subnets are evaluated when unequal
   bas> length subnets are define" bug

the what?
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan 10 20:56:31 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:56:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] next meeting on OpenSSH
Message-ID: <4786CCCF.9040508@ceetonetechnology.com>

This past September OpenSSH turned 8 years old.

Without exception, I think everyone in and around NYCBUG utilizes 
OpenSSH, beyond just as a replacement for telnet.

For our next meeting (February 6th, back to the first Wednesday of the 
month), we are going to have an 'open meeting' for anyone with 
interesting uses of OpenSSH to have their say.

Maybe you are resourcefully dealing with SSH brute force attacks, or 
maybe doing something with public key management across a bunch of 
different boxes.

This is your chance to give a brief spiel on your creativity with OpenSSH.

Please contact admin@ to mention your idea that you'd like to raise at 
the next meeting.

George


From lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org  Fri Jan 11 05:29:08 2008
From: lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org (Brian A. Seklecki)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 05:29:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <oqtzll9sqj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
References: <537046.25498.qm@web30410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20080110132704.A66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
	<oqtzll9sqj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <20080111052648.C66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>


> the what?

If you do a hub-and-spoke P2P and your organization has a say.../19 of 
private IP space at the HQ and all of the facilities have a /24 or /25 of 
space, your isakmpd.conf will have unequal size subnet masks.

A branch router with with this config will recieve a packet on its LAN 
interface from the /24 or /25, process it, and transmit a return packet to 
the LAN node.

But IPSEC is evaluated before locally connected subnets, so the packet 
from the printer on the LAN will get transmitted to the /19 across the VPN 
IPSEC tunnel to the HQ (which silently drops it)

Its the way the stack is designed in ip_output();

l8*
 	-lava (Brian A. Seklecki - Pittsburgh, PA, USA)
 	       http://www.spiritual-machines.org/


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 11 20:47:11 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:47:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] useful site on FBSD RAID
Message-ID: <47881C1F.9070704@ceetonetechnology.com>

Thought this was useful:

http://nico.schottelius.org/documentations/freebsd/freebsd-raid-monitoring

A bunch of tools and scripts organized by RAID driver for FreeBSD. . .

g


From lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org  Sat Jan 12 20:18:05 2008
From: lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org (Brian A. Seklecki)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:18:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] useful site on FBSD RAID
In-Reply-To: <47881C1F.9070704@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <47881C1F.9070704@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20080112201655.P66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:

> Thought this was useful:
>
> http://nico.schottelius.org/documentations/freebsd/freebsd-raid-monitoring

Also, www.nagiosexchange.org has some useful RAID monitoring scripts. 
~BAS

>
> A bunch of tools and scripts organized by RAID driver for FreeBSD. . .
>


From trish at bsdunix.net  Sat Jan 12 23:50:11 2008
From: trish at bsdunix.net (=?utf-8?B?VHJpc2ggTHluY2g=?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 04:50:11 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] useful site on FBSD RAID
In-Reply-To: <20080112201655.P66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
References: <47881C1F.9070704@ceetonetechnology.com><20080112201655.P66279@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
Message-ID: <674173473-1200199820-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-896670989-@bxe011.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I keep reading that as "nagio sexchange" instead of "nagios exchange" - too much of my personal life intruding on the technical knowledge?

-Siobhan Patricia Lynch
-- 
Trish Lynch
M: 646-401-1405
H: 201-378-0434  

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian A. Seklecki" <lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org>

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:18:05 
To:George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
Cc:NYCBUG <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] useful site on FBSD RAID


On Fri, 11 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:

> Thought this was useful:
>
> http://nico.schottelius.org/documentations/freebsd/freebsd-raid-monitoring

Also, www.nagiosexchange.org has some useful RAID monitoring scripts.
~BAS

>
> A bunch of tools and scripts organized by RAID driver for FreeBSD. . .
>
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Jan 15 09:45:18 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:45:18 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dru's new book
Message-ID: <478CC6FE.2060206@ceetonetechnology.com>

Dru's new book has just been released entitled FreeBSD Basics:

http://www.reedmedia.net/books/freebsd-basics/

I have one copy coming on the way. . . and it would be good to have 
several people do reviews. . .

If anyone hasn't read Dru's stuff before. . . uh, you must have been 
hiding under a rock for a long time.

The table of contents is here: http://tinyurl.com/2arhyh

Let me know off list if you're interested in doing a review.

I also have a copy of the new BIND book, based on the ISC documentation. 
  Also let me know if anyone's interested in doing a review offlist.

George


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 16 08:54:06 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:54:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
Message-ID: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>

Wow.

http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/

g


From nycbug-list at 2xlp.com  Wed Jan 16 19:36:21 2008
From: nycbug-list at 2xlp.com (Jonathan Vanasco)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:36:21 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Asian Hosting
Message-ID: <A5A3CF9E-D565-43AA-BF6C-5A4E65A90068@2xlp.com>

All-

A contact needs to host in an Asian center, which can handle managed  
hosting [BSD or Linux.. possibly even windows:( ] .  Does anyone have  
a recomendation?  Bob suggested Ike having friends in Japan (hint  
hint)...

The contact was also leaning towards Singapore/Japan for his perceived  
connectivity issues. 
  


From lists at stringsutils.com  Thu Jan 17 00:34:27 2008
From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:34:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>

George Rosamond writes:

> http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/


>What does the acquisition of MySQL by Sun mean for MySQL users?
>Given Sun's proven track record as the largest contributor to Open Source,

Maybe my job doesn't give me time to read as many news as I used to... but 
has Sun really contributed that much to open sourse?

Digging around I see: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris and open Java
http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1889


From bob at redivi.com  Thu Jan 17 03:27:20 2008
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:27:20 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 16, 2008 9:34 PM, Francisco Reyes <lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> George Rosamond writes:
>
> > http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/
>
>
> >What does the acquisition of MySQL by Sun mean for MySQL users?
> >Given Sun's proven track record as the largest contributor to Open Source,
>
> Maybe my job doesn't give me time to read as many news as I used to... but
> has Sun really contributed that much to open sourse?
>
> Digging around I see: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris and open Java
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1889

Well there's OpenSolaris, or at least parts of it such as ZFS and
dtrace. They've also put out press releases about PostgreSQL, though I
don't know what their actual contribution was... probably just Solaris
related hardware and performance work. Java is a big deal, though it
would've been a lot better for everyone had they opened it a couple
years ago.

-bob


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan 17 09:31:48 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:31:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>	
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>

Bob Ippolito wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2008 9:34 PM, Francisco Reyes <lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
>> George Rosamond writes:
>>
>>> http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/
>>
>>> What does the acquisition of MySQL by Sun mean for MySQL users?
>>> Given Sun's proven track record as the largest contributor to Open Source,
>> Maybe my job doesn't give me time to read as many news as I used to... but
>> has Sun really contributed that much to open sourse?
>>
>> Digging around I see: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris and open Java
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1889
> 
> Well there's OpenSolaris, or at least parts of it such as ZFS and
> dtrace. They've also put out press releases about PostgreSQL, though I
> don't know what their actual contribution was... probably just Solaris
> related hardware and performance work. Java is a big deal, though it
> would've been a lot better for everyone had they opened it a couple
> years ago.

There's been lots on this on the NYPHP talk list.

I need to read the Sun site a bit more thoroughly about their licensing, 
particularly with OpenSolaris, before I'd call it open source though. 
Most references note that their open source licensing isn't exactly that.

What is clear, however, is that if the traditional database stack is 
often Oracle on Solaris, what does this mean. . . database-lite stack of 
  MySQL on OpenSolaris?

Or is it leverage against Oracle?

Does Sun see this as a way of getting consulting work based on open 
source software?  So why didn't they just start hacking away at MySQL 
more to do that . . . it's not like the GPL'd license is going to change 
when they purchase it.

I find it hard to believe that MySQL as a firm is worth $1 billion.

Pretty amazing to see a technology acquisition like this in the midst of 
the stock indices plummeting, the credit crunch mess and housing collapse.

g


From tekronis at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 10:22:08 2008
From: tekronis at gmail.com (H. G.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:22:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk]  Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <60131f920801170714s79ab77a4td72d2d6b9399b23f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<60131f920801170714s79ab77a4td72d2d6b9399b23f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60131f920801170722m4f43fac9o76fa1234497956d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 17, 2008 9:31 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:

> Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 2008 9:34 PM, Francisco Reyes <lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> >> George Rosamond writes:
> >>
> >>> http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/
> >>
> >>> What does the acquisition of MySQL by Sun mean for MySQL users?
> >>> Given Sun's proven track record as the largest contributor to Open
> Source,
> >> Maybe my job doesn't give me time to read as many news as I used to...
> but
> >> has Sun really contributed that much to open sourse?
> >>
> >> Digging around I see: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris and open Java
> >> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1889
> >
> > Well there's OpenSolaris, or at least parts of it such as ZFS and
> > dtrace. They've also put out press releases about PostgreSQL, though I
> > don't know what their actual contribution was... probably just Solaris
> > related hardware and performance work. Java is a big deal, though it
> > would've been a lot better for everyone had they opened it a couple
> > years ago.
>
> There's been lots on this on the NYPHP talk list.
>
> I need to read the Sun site a bit more thoroughly about their licensing,
> particularly with OpenSolaris, before I'd call it open source though.
> Most references note that their open source licensing isn't exactly that.
>
> What is clear, however, is that if the traditional database stack is
> often Oracle on Solaris, what does this mean. . . database-lite stack of
>  MySQL on OpenSolaris?
>
> Or is it leverage against Oracle?
>
> Does Sun see this as a way of getting consulting work based on open
> source software?  So why didn't they just start hacking away at MySQL
> more to do that . . . it's not like the GPL'd license is going to change
> when they purchase it.
>
> I find it hard to believe that MySQL as a firm is worth $1 billion.
>
> Pretty amazing to see a technology acquisition like this in the midst of
> the stock indices plummeting, the credit crunch mess and housing collapse.
>
>
> g
>

It probably started when Oracle declared a sort of "break point" with the
announcement that they were going to release their own Linux.  Even long-
time Solaris+Oracle stacked customers would begin thinking, "Well hey,
if this is Linux coming _DIRECTLY_ from Oracle, then wouldn't it make
sense to simply go that way?".  Stability or not, they'd go with the Oracle
branded -nux simply because its coming from Oracle.

Perhaps Sun was thinking to itself, "2 can play that game"?
Perhaps you may soon be hearing things like, "Even though Oracle is
reputable piece of software, you won't be needing half of the features
that their product offers for your use case.  MySQL has been engineered
to work optimally with our operating system, giving you the best in
stability that we could possibly deliver to you.  Sign up for our Sun
SolarDB Support plan...."

As for the $1 billion price tag, I really think its more a result of
perceived hype.  You get a good idea of that if you look at the most
recent example before this, where Schwartz changed Sun's stock
ticker from SUNW to JAVA.  When asked why, the answer was
"Java is Everywhere!"

Theres also the matter of Sun's transition into a much more software-
based company; they're planning to close down a lot of their datacenters.
So this is probably the first in a series of moves to attempt to consolidate
stakes in what is supposedly considered as "bulwark" software
in the Open Source world.

MySQL, whether its better or worse than the alternatives, undoubtedly has
a massive footprint in both the free and commercial domain.  I'm thinking if
Apache was backed by a commercial company in much the same way that
MySQL is, it would probably have been acquired next.  There is a good
chunk of change to be made on support when customers start deploying
MySQL on Solaris with Sun's blessing.

I remember reading someone's suggestion that the overall trend
is that tech companies are moving to provide more and more
"stacked solutions" to their clients, instead of simply "components".
For example, you can not only get just an operating system from Red Hat,
but a full-on "solution", which is RHEL + the JBoss stack and associated
wares.  We also all know about how Oracle does not only offer its
database system, but now full-blown data "solutions", which include an
operating system, database, OLAP and other tools/stacks/doohickeys.

BTW, George, even with the financial situation getting uglier and uglier,
it still won't ever be difficult for an entity that large to borrow money
for
acquisitions and other moves.  I'm pretty sure the financial lords have
already things drawn and quartered in the unlikely event that their
"investment" was in danger.
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From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 11:12:11 2008
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:12:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30801170812l6f5f87a9i2b73c4261a535430@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 17, 2008 9:31 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>
> Does Sun see this as a way of getting consulting work based on open
> source software?  So why didn't they just start hacking away at MySQL
> more to do that . . . it's not like the GPL'd license is going to change
> when they purchase it.
>

MySQL is *dual* licensed, if I *buy* the commercial license version I
am not subject to any of the gpl conditions.  If I am a mysql
commercial user this is *very* important due to MySQL's history of
using licensing to drive users into commercial license purchase.  The
one I remember off the top of my head was MySQL promising that the
client libs would remain lgpled for ever then changing the license to
gpl.  And gpl land is getting even weirder where licensing is
concerned.

The thing is now sun *owns* it.

marc
-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan 17 11:23:04 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:23:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30801170812l6f5f87a9i2b73c4261a535430@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>	
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>	
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>	
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<8c50a3c30801170812l6f5f87a9i2b73c4261a535430@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478F80E8.6050603@ceetonetechnology.com>

Marc Spitzer wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2008 9:31 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>> Does Sun see this as a way of getting consulting work based on open
>> source software?  So why didn't they just start hacking away at MySQL
>> more to do that . . . it's not like the GPL'd license is going to change
>> when they purchase it.
>>
> 
> MySQL is *dual* licensed, if I *buy* the commercial license version I
> am not subject to any of the gpl conditions.  If I am a mysql
> commercial user this is *very* important due to MySQL's history of
> using licensing to drive users into commercial license purchase.  The
> one I remember off the top of my head was MySQL promising that the
> client libs would remain lgpled for ever then changing the license to
> gpl.  And gpl land is getting even weirder where licensing is
> concerned.
> 
> The thing is now sun *owns* it.

I started to reply to this, beginning with I'm aware that there's two 
licenses, and that patches for the commercial version are better and 
more current. . . and then wondering how this interplays with the GPL. . .

Then I remembered, this is why I like the BSD license. . . because it's 
three sentences and I know what it means.

:)

g


From nycbug-list at 2xlp.com  Thu Jan 17 12:37:06 2008
From: nycbug-list at 2xlp.com (Jonathan Vanasco)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:37:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EA11168-016D-49EE-BC25-FE4AA9FDF0AA@2xlp.com>

 From what I've been able to glean, Sun has pretty-much-been one of  
the largest proponents of PostgreSQL for a long time - and i've heard  
that they're one of the larger $ backers for development (though I  
can't find any real docs on that).  I'm mostly worried about what  
this means for Postgres, as I prefer that to MySQL by quite a bit.   
If they lose clout or bonded development, that would suck.

The deal makes a lot of sense to me though.  I doubt we'll see much  
of any change in terms of licensing or sales.  MySQL and Postgres are  
both 'enterprise grade' now - they have been for years ( though I  
think you're smoking crack if you trust mysql's referential  
integrity ).  This gives Sun a chance to compete against Oracle.

Even yesterday someone said to me "We think the system needs to be on  
MsSql.  Oracle is overkill, and all the other vendors have said that  
SqlServer is the way to go, because open source software like MySQL  
can't handle .5M or 1M hits a day and will crash."  I gave him a  
bunch of links and referred him to 4 vendors saying "choose one of  
these guys over us.. just don't go with the idiots who are telling  
you that Microsoft is the answer and MySQL will break".  With Sun  
behind it ,  MySQL AB is going to reposition as an Oracle  
competitor.  Maybe MySQL gpl will suck less too.

This makes me wonder what will happen to Vertica too- rumors were  
that Sun wanted that to compete against Oracle too.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 17 13:53:00 2008
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:53:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6EA11168-016D-49EE-BC25-FE4AA9FDF0AA@2xlp.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EA11168-016D-49EE-BC25-FE4AA9FDF0AA@2xlp.com>
Message-ID: <20080117185300.GB58862@sunset.nomadlogic.org>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 12:37:06PM -0500, Jonathan Vanasco wrote:
>  From what I've been able to glean, Sun has pretty-much-been one of  
> the largest proponents of PostgreSQL for a long time - and i've heard  
> that they're one of the larger $ backers for development (though I  
> can't find any real docs on that).  I'm mostly worried about what  
> this means for Postgres, as I prefer that to MySQL by quite a bit.   
> If they lose clout or bonded development, that would suck.
> 

Sun provides pay for support of pgsql on Solaris (and linux i belive as
well).  If i remeber correctly enterpriseDB is actually contraced out to
perform specific engineering consulting services while sun provides
basically front line support.  

> The deal makes a lot of sense to me though.  I doubt we'll see much  
> of any change in terms of licensing or sales.  MySQL and Postgres are  
> both 'enterprise grade' now - they have been for years ( though I  
> think you're smoking crack if you trust mysql's referential  
> integrity ).  This gives Sun a chance to compete against Oracle.
>
i'm not sure they really want to compete against oracle or anything like
that.  i'm also not too sure that this is a play to compete with Oracle
Linux, which is bascially a CentOS clone with most of ORA's sysctl knobs
pre-set.

 
frankly i have no idea what gonna happen - but i'll tell ya one thing,
this is not gonna stop me from running either ORA or pgsql :)

-pete

-- 
~~oO00Oo~~
Peter Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete
310.869.9459



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 17 13:59:11 2008
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:59:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20080117185911.GC58862@sunset.nomadlogic.org>

On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 09:31:48AM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
> Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 2008 9:34 PM, Francisco Reyes <lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> >> George Rosamond writes:
> >>
> >>> http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/
> >>
> >>> What does the acquisition of MySQL by Sun mean for MySQL users?
> >>> Given Sun's proven track record as the largest contributor to Open Source,
> >> Maybe my job doesn't give me time to read as many news as I used to... but
> >> has Sun really contributed that much to open sourse?
> >>
> >> Digging around I see: OpenOffice, OpenSolaris and open Java
> >> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=1889
> > 
> > Well there's OpenSolaris, or at least parts of it such as ZFS and
> > dtrace. They've also put out press releases about PostgreSQL, though I
> > don't know what their actual contribution was... probably just Solaris
> > related hardware and performance work. Java is a big deal, though it
> > would've been a lot better for everyone had they opened it a couple
> > years ago.
> 
> There's been lots on this on the NYPHP talk list.
> 
> I need to read the Sun site a bit more thoroughly about their licensing, 
> particularly with OpenSolaris, before I'd call it open source though. 
> Most references note that their open source licensing isn't exactly that.
> 

sure it is :)  seriously though, i've doing some development work on
solaris and open-solaris lately and i've noticed a couple things that i
find positive.  i think it's great that there are sun engineers as well
as other developers on the @opensolaris mailing lists.  while it is
definatly not the same development model as *BSD or the linux kernel,
i'll take it as a step in the right direction.  it's nice to be able to
follow specific bugs pop up and see that engineers are working on them
with out you having to purchase a support contract etc...


> What is clear, however, is that if the traditional database stack is 
> often Oracle on Solaris, what does this mean. . . database-lite stack of 
>   MySQL on OpenSolaris?
> 
or DB appliances?  hey maybe the network *is* the computer ;)

<snip>

yea that shocked me too...

> Pretty amazing to see a technology acquisition like this in the midst of 
> the stock indices plummeting, the credit crunch mess and housing collapse.
> 
yea in one day not only does sun aquire MySQL but ORA aquires
BEA....crazy.

-p


-- 
~~oO00Oo~~
Peter Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete
310.869.9459



From trish at bsdunix.net  Thu Jan 17 14:33:50 2008
From: trish at bsdunix.net (Siobhan Patricia Lynch)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:33:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <20080117185911.GC58862@sunset.nomadlogic.org>
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<20080117185911.GC58862@sunset.nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20080117142221.J79485@daemon.bsdunix.net>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Pete Wright wrote:

>> I need to read the Sun site a bit more thoroughly about their licensing,
>> particularly with OpenSolaris, before I'd call it open source though.
>> Most references note that their open source licensing isn't exactly that.
>>
>
> sure it is :)  seriously though, i've doing some development work on
> solaris and open-solaris lately and i've noticed a couple things that i
> find positive.  i think it's great that there are sun engineers as well
> as other developers on the @opensolaris mailing lists.  while it is
> definatly not the same development model as *BSD or the linux kernel,
> i'll take it as a step in the right direction.  it's nice to be able to
> follow specific bugs pop up and see that engineers are working on them
> with out you having to purchase a support contract etc...
>
>

I'm now working as the project lead for a company that is working on a 
Turnkey PCIDSS (Payment Card Industry Data Security Specification) Box 
for retail chains, and we're using OpenSolaris. it is definitely Open 
Source, though my big issues have to do with the closed nature of the 
development teams themselves. For instance, there is an El Torito boot 
bug in GRUB that was reported over a year ago, the person even submitted a 
(rather good) patch as well. It still is not fixed in the current version, 
not allowing me to boot off external USB CD/DVDs. The way I see it is, 
things go so *slow* in the Open Solaris community, while BSD development 
is a bit faster, Linux even faster still.

Granted its very stable, and some of the features (like zones with 
exclusive IP stacks bound to virtual NICs) are nice, and aren;t available 
anywhere else. Jails don;t have stack exclusivity, and thier own routing 
tables, they share it with the host and the other jails.

Anyway, I am somewhat enjoying the OpenSolaris building I'm doing these 
days.


Siobhan Patricia Lynch
Lead Security Engineer
Reliant Security
W: 877-353-0290 ext 3
M: 646-401-1405
F: 646-224-8974

-- 
Siobhan Patricia Lynch				   trish at bsdunix.net
Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919  0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16


From carton at Ivy.NET  Thu Jan 17 18:03:27 2008
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:03:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <6EA11168-016D-49EE-BC25-FE4AA9FDF0AA@2xlp.com> (Jonathan
	Vanasco's message of "Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:37:06 -0500")
References: <478E0C7E.1080201@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<cone.1200548067.961202.17828.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<6a36e7290801170027j6d5b88dare194dc360a277a03@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EA11168-016D-49EE-BC25-FE4AA9FDF0AA@2xlp.com>
	<478F66D4.7070701@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<60131f920801170714s79ab77a4td72d2d6b9399b23f@mail.gmail.com>
	<60131f920801170722m4f43fac9o76fa1234497956d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oqsl0w6on4.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "jv" == Jonathan Vanasco <nycbug-list at 2xlp.com> writes:
>>>>> "hg" == H G <tekronis at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> "gr" == George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> writes:

    jv>  From what I've been able to glean, Sun has pretty-much-been
    jv> one of the largest proponents of PostgreSQL for a long time -
    jv> and i've heard that they're one of the larger $ backers for
    jv> development (though I can't find any real docs on that).  I'm
    jv> mostly worried about what this means for Postgres, as I prefer
    jv> that to MySQL by quite a bit.  If they lose clout or bonded
    jv> development, that would suck.

^^^ what he said, exactly.

including the clout part.  When Sun started releasing their own
Postgres port and announcing their intent to do some Postgres/Solaris
performance optimization, I thought, ``great---at least one clan of
wizards has stuck their staffs in the mud to say, `people who know the
difference use Postgres.' ''

Instantly after the MySQL purchase, Postgres lost massive clout.

    hg> "stacked solutions" to their clients, instead of simply
    hg> "components".

if mysql makes its way into some stacked solution from Sun, Postgres
will lose huge amounts of further clout.

    gr> it's not like the GPL'd license is going to change when they
    gr> purchase it.

that's the thing that sucks about the buy-your-way-out-of-the-GPL
stuff---they can if they want to because they've retained single
copyright ownership.  I'm much more inclined to spend my time working
on someone else's code if it's under FSF ownership.  but yeah I think
MySQL's future licensing is only more secure by Sun owning it.

    hg> MySQL, whether its better or worse than the alternatives,
    hg> undoubtedly has a massive footprint in both the free and
    hg> commercial domain.

It is crap, and using it may or may not cause problems for you, but
it's guaranteed to make you stupider, like learning BASIC.

But if you want to use this huge body widely-available
extremely-useful PHP crap, or tap into the pool of cheap PHP
developers, there's no choice, is there?  As my old housemate used to
say, start swimming downstream.

    gr> I need to read the Sun site a bit more thoroughly about their
    gr> licensing, particularly with OpenSolaris, before I'd call it
    gr> open source though.  Most references note that their open
    gr> source licensing isn't exactly that.

the CDDL is fine, even according to Stallman.  The SCSL that Java used
to be under is the problem one.

The problem with OpenSolaris is that it's not ALL open-source, and
they're being deliberately misleading with the way they name things.
The realistic way to use it and do development on it is to install the
latest SXCE DVD, and then overwrite parts of it with OpenSolaris.  And
there used to be this long explanation about how OpenSolaris isn't
actually a complete operating system---it's the name for a tarball of
source releases through a ``gate'', limited to ``core OS and
networking components,'' which can overwrite parts of Solaris Express
Community Edition.  

People kept getting confused and thinking Solaris became OpenSolaris
when Sun changed the license.  About a year ago Sun just quit
correcting them.  Since the error is in their favour, why bother.

from OpenSolaris source you can't:

 * build your own install CD's like you can with BSD or Linux.  The
   only supported way to install is to download their DVD image,
   install that, do a nightly build of OpenSolaris under that binary
   environment, then use BFU to install what you built over top of
   Solaris Express.

 * check out the source for released/supported Solaris 10 Update 4
   from Mercurial, change one line, rebuild, and BFU over your S10U4
   system.  The stable branches are not open-source AFAIK.  The
   binaries built from them are free-as-in-free-beer, but if you run
   stable Solaris you can't get the source code for what you're
   actually running.

 * build any kind of bootable operating system, make any forked
   ``Distribution,'' that includes open-source software only.  Even
   Nexenta includes lots of Sun binary bits.  It's certainly not the
   outdated throw-over-the-wall crap that Apple pulls---it's possible
   to collaborate with them given what they realease---but it's still
   missing key chunks that probably won't get magically replaced by
   some industrious Linuxmonkey ever.

 * buy any complete system from Sun that includes source code for all
   the drivers.  It takes some care to do this with BSD or Linux, but
   (modulo 3D acceleration) is very doable.

There are three licenses:

CDDL: the open-source part of OpenSolaris that's in Mercurial

OpenSolaris Binary License: the binary stuff that's in Nexenta.
permits redistribution.

<forget the name>: the (binary) license of Solaris Express.  You have
to register on their web forum and legally declare the number of
(free) copies you're using to download stable Solaris or Solaris
Express DVD's.  They keep tweaking this one, but the license gives
them the sort of sneaky problematic control they had over Java.

as for Sun's contribution to open source history, though, Solaris is
huge and of high quality, and although the release is not as complete
as I'd like it's possible to get work done over there unlike on
Darwin, so even without OpenOffice and Java they are a big player.

I'm a little pessimistic that grumbling and agitation by individual
developers will ever lead to a more complete OpenSolaris release,
because anyone who matters and is doing enough work to get blocked by
missing source code can probably get a job there if he wants one.
unless they don't pay enough or one of their competitors agitates for
a more complete release, I don't think we'll get one.

And their claims of ``all _new_ work we're doin gon Solaris will be
open source'' are bogus because they do not apply to drivers.  The
claim really should apply to drivers since unlike Linux zealots, they
are designing mass-produced motherboards and spec'ing the chips that
go into them.  They hold all the cards and still deal crappy hands.
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From alex at pilosoft.com  Thu Jan 17 18:18:11 2008
From: alex at pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:18:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <oqsl0w6on4.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171814110.5836-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Miles Nordin wrote:

> including the clout part.  When Sun started releasing their own Postgres
> port and announcing their intent to do some Postgres/Solaris performance
> optimization, I thought, ``great---at least one clan of wizards has
> stuck their staffs in the mud to say, `people who know the difference
> use Postgres.' ''
> 
> Instantly after the MySQL purchase, Postgres lost massive clout.
pgsql didn't have clout. pgsql was always 'for us by us' mentality. 
cluebies used pgsql. pgsql has been growing and getting better without 
massive corporate sponsorships, really, this isn't going to change. 

<snip>
> 
> that's the thing that sucks about the buy-your-way-out-of-the-GPL
> stuff---they can if they want to because they've retained single
> copyright ownership.  I'm much more inclined to spend my time working on
> someone else's code if it's under FSF ownership.  but yeah I think
> MySQL's future licensing is only more secure by Sun owning it.
Don't forget that pgsql is bsd licensed. anyone can use it and sell it and 
not give anything back. that didn't seem to hurt pgsql.

> But if you want to use this huge body widely-available
> extremely-useful PHP crap, or tap into the pool of cheap PHP
> developers, there's no choice, is there?  As my old housemate used to
> say, start swimming downstream.
very much agreed. php and mysql are perfect combination, for clueless 
developers.

-alex



From nycbug-list at 2xlp.com  Fri Jan 18 12:49:13 2008
From: nycbug-list at 2xlp.com (Jonathan Vanasco)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:49:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171814110.5836-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171814110.5836-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
Message-ID: <5AD17DAB-38DB-4C8A-8159-6212784A3940@2xlp.com>


On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Alex Pilosov wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Miles Nordin wrote:
>
>> including the clout part.  When Sun started releasing their own  
>> Postgres
>> port and announcing their intent to do some Postgres/Solaris  
>> performance
>> optimization, I thought, ``great---at least one clan of wizards has
>> stuck their staffs in the mud to say, `people who know the difference
>> use Postgres.' ''
>>
>> Instantly after the MySQL purchase, Postgres lost massive clout.
> pgsql didn't have clout. pgsql was always 'for us by us' mentality.
> cluebies used pgsql. pgsql has been growing and getting better without
> massive corporate sponsorships, really, this isn't going to change.

Pg has clout in that it is the 'for us & by us' , and many of the  
smarter firms use it over mysql, and that there was some big-tech  
interest behind it.  Just this week I had to defend Pg as a choice of  
Oracle, and my dialogue was "Sun backs it".  MySQL has tons of  
publicity on enterprise level deployments from large firms... I need  
a new "Postgres is legit for enterprise" diversion... citing IMDB  
might not cut it. 


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Jan 18 13:43:08 2008
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:43:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <5AD17DAB-38DB-4C8A-8159-6212784A3940@2xlp.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171814110.5836-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
	<5AD17DAB-38DB-4C8A-8159-6212784A3940@2xlp.com>
Message-ID: <20080118184304.GA15306@sunset.nomadlogic.org>

On Fri, Jan 18, 2008 at 12:49:13PM -0500, Jonathan Vanasco wrote:
> 
> On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Alex Pilosov wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Miles Nordin wrote:
> >
> >> including the clout part.  When Sun started releasing their own  
> >> Postgres
> >> port and announcing their intent to do some Postgres/Solaris  
> >> performance
> >> optimization, I thought, ``great---at least one clan of wizards has
> >> stuck their staffs in the mud to say, `people who know the difference
> >> use Postgres.' ''
> >>
> >> Instantly after the MySQL purchase, Postgres lost massive clout.
> > pgsql didn't have clout. pgsql was always 'for us by us' mentality.
> > cluebies used pgsql. pgsql has been growing and getting better without
> > massive corporate sponsorships, really, this isn't going to change.
> 
> Pg has clout in that it is the 'for us & by us' , and many of the  
> smarter firms use it over mysql, and that there was some big-tech  
> interest behind it.  Just this week I had to defend Pg as a choice of  
> Oracle, and my dialogue was "Sun backs it".  MySQL has tons of  
> publicity on enterprise level deployments from large firms... I need  
> a new "Postgres is legit for enterprise" diversion... citing IMDB  
> might not cut it. 

how 'bout Sony Online Entertainment:
http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid39_gci1174189,00.html

that's just off the top of my head though ;)

-pete


-- 
~~oO00Oo~~
Peter Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete
310.869.9459



From bob at redivi.com  Fri Jan 18 17:07:29 2008
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:07:29 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun Acquires MySQL
In-Reply-To: <5AD17DAB-38DB-4C8A-8159-6212784A3940@2xlp.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171814110.5836-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
	<5AD17DAB-38DB-4C8A-8159-6212784A3940@2xlp.com>
Message-ID: <6a36e7290801181407j8931ef3p9172ff0c07082f6f@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 18, 2008 9:49 AM, Jonathan Vanasco <nycbug-list at 2xlp.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 17, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Alex Pilosov wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Miles Nordin wrote:
> >
> >> including the clout part.  When Sun started releasing their own
> >> Postgres
> >> port and announcing their intent to do some Postgres/Solaris
> >> performance
> >> optimization, I thought, ``great---at least one clan of wizards has
> >> stuck their staffs in the mud to say, `people who know the difference
> >> use Postgres.' ''
> >>
> >> Instantly after the MySQL purchase, Postgres lost massive clout.
> > pgsql didn't have clout. pgsql was always 'for us by us' mentality.
> > cluebies used pgsql. pgsql has been growing and getting better without
> > massive corporate sponsorships, really, this isn't going to change.
>
> Pg has clout in that it is the 'for us & by us' , and many of the
> smarter firms use it over mysql, and that there was some big-tech
> interest behind it.  Just this week I had to defend Pg as a choice of
> Oracle, and my dialogue was "Sun backs it".  MySQL has tons of
> publicity on enterprise level deployments from large firms... I need
> a new "Postgres is legit for enterprise" diversion... citing IMDB
> might not cut it.
>

Skype?

-bob


From skreuzer at exit2shell.com  Fri Jan 18 17:16:00 2008
From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:16:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE Available
Message-ID: <20080118221600.GC21396@scruffy.exit2shell.com>

Looks like some of us might spend the weekend cvsup'ing ;)

http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.3R/announce.html

This release continues the development of the 6-STABLE branch providing
performance and stability improvements, many bug fixes and new features.u
Some of the highlights:

    * KDE updated to 3.5.8, GNOME updated to 2.20.1, Xorg updated to 7.3
    * BIND updated to 9.3.4
    * sendmail updated to 8.14.2
    * lagg(4) driver ported from OpenBSD/NetBSD
    * unionfs file system re-implemented
    * freebsd-update(8) now supports an upgrade command

-- 
Steven Kreuzer
http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 18 18:15:41 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:15:41 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon
Message-ID: <4791331D.1050506@ceetonetechnology.com>

I realize the MySQL/Postgres/Sun/Oracle/GPL discussion is fascinating 
and all, but. . .

We have Columbia University booked for Oct 11/12. . . Saturday and Sunday.

:)

While we missed 2007, we are sure that the successes of 2005 and 2006 
can be continued.

You'll note that the www site has been updated:

http://www.nycbsdcon.org/

We appreciate all input on issues of sponsors, speakers, etc., and we 
look forward to hearing them at the meetings.

George


From jkeen at verizon.net  Sat Jan 19 12:16:46 2008
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:16:46 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1200762006.17070.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1200762006.17070.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
Message-ID: <2508DAD1-7F52-4B46-931C-F551E5AA230D@verizon.net>


On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:15:41 -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>
> You'll note that the www site has been updated:
>
> http://www.nycbsdcon.org/
>
>

Site still says:  "Bringing the BSD Community Together in 2006".


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Jan 21 11:41:27 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:41:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon
In-Reply-To: <2508DAD1-7F52-4B46-931C-F551E5AA230D@verizon.net>
References: <mailman.3.1200762006.17070.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
	<2508DAD1-7F52-4B46-931C-F551E5AA230D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4794CB37.9030008@ceetonetechnology.com>

James E Keenan wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:15:41 -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>> You'll note that the www site has been updated:
>>
>> http://www.nycbsdcon.org/
>>
>>
> 
> Site still says:  "Bringing the BSD Community Together in 2006".

did we not?

:)

g


From josh at rivels.org  Tue Jan 22 09:21:28 2008
From: josh at rivels.org (Josh Rivel)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:21:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [slightly OT] VOIP provider?
Message-ID: <20080122142128.GB8257@rivels.org>

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a VOIP hosted PBX provider.
We're currently using InfoHighway (which was acquired by Broadview)
and are very unhappy with them.  Prior to that we were using M5,
and also very dissatisfied.

Our contract with InfoHighway is up around March, and I'd like to start
looking at alternatives.

Thanks,
Josh


From techneck at goldenpath.org  Wed Jan 23 16:12:38 2008
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:12:38 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [slightly OT] VOIP provider?
In-Reply-To: <20080122142128.GB8257@rivels.org>
References: <20080122142128.GB8257@rivels.org>
Message-ID: <4797ADC6.4050103@goldenpath.org>

Josh Rivel wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone can recommend a VOIP hosted PBX provider.
> We're currently using InfoHighway (which was acquired by Broadview)
> and are very unhappy with them.  Prior to that we were using M5,
> and also very dissatisfied.
>
> Our contract with InfoHighway is up around March, and I'd like to start
> looking at alternatives.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
I use these as PSTN gateways, but they provide Hosted PBX as well:

http://www.junctionnetworks.com/

http://vitelity.net/

http://www.iax.cc/

What I like best about these guys is their simplicity and ease of use. 
This is how it ought to be IMO.
Create an account, fund it, setup/manage it, use it.
That's all internet though, you have to get to them, they don't hook you 
up, they're not last-mile ISPs.
Unless you or your ISPs make suitable arrangements for your path to 
their network (not likely, just saying, it's feasible), you will 
experience intermittent quality issues.
It's the internet, VOIP over the internet will occasionally suffer. You 
can mitigate it a little with selection of codecs. But the problem isn't 
going away.

If you need rock solid reliability, pristine quality, your surest best 
is always to get the voip your last-mile provider is providing.
In my case, given the areas I was working with, Optimum Lightpath turned 
out to offer the most bang-for-the-buck and just plain awesome flexibility.

They use these Atrica Fiber muxs that break off  "Virtual" PRIs, 
deducted in 1.5Mbs increments from whatever size pipe you're paying for 
at no additional cost. They do the PSTN termination on the otherside and 
give you a PRI hand off for your PBX.  (Or in your case you'd just take 
hosted PBX accounts too, which they do.) They'll hand it off anyway you 
like and just deduct that handoff's bandwidth from your limit.

Anyway, the build-out's in process now, so I can't speak for the 
Lightpath service in production yet, but I'm psyched.


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 25 10:53:39 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:53:39 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
Message-ID: <479A0603.7010602@ceetonetechnology.com>

Seems pretty useful as a how-to

http://nighthack.org/wiki/EeeBSD

I know at least one person in NYCBUG who has one. . .

George


From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com  Fri Jan 25 13:20:12 2008
From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:20:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <479A0603.7010602@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <479A0603.7010602@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <e22ad7830801251020r6b9f9f0fud43e2762248515c9@mail.gmail.com>

I realize I'm cheap, but doesn't the pricing of these seem really off?
There's not much difference between them and standard laptops in
pricing, and a lot in power. Is the weight that big a difference?

Josh


On 1/25/08, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> Seems pretty useful as a how-to
>
> http://nighthack.org/wiki/EeeBSD
>
> I know at least one person in NYCBUG who has one. . .
>
> George
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


-- 
Josh McCormack
Owner, InteractiveQA
Social Network Development & QA testing
http://www.interactiveqa.com
917.620.4902


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 25 13:28:37 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:28:37 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <e22ad7830801251020r6b9f9f0fud43e2762248515c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <479A0603.7010602@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<e22ad7830801251020r6b9f9f0fud43e2762248515c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <479A2A55.4010801@ceetonetechnology.com>

Josh McCormack wrote:
> I realize I'm cheap, but doesn't the pricing of these seem really off?
> There's not much difference between them and standard laptops in
> pricing, and a lot in power. Is the weight that big a difference?
> 

It's around two pounds, and feels *nice*. . .

Oh, initially, 6 mos before their release, they were cheap with great specs.

It's just as we approached the release date, the specs worsened and 
price *doubled*.

There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the EEE. 
.. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the DragonFly 
blog I caught this off of.

I think the initial stuff was exciting. . . then I watched how Asus 
dealt with the release, warned people about doing upgrades themselves 
(overruled), apparently removed the second free mini-pci slot, screwed 
over the small vendors (such as GCS that many of us use), etc., so I 
lost the appetite for the EEEs.

Ike picked one up though. . . and it is sweet. . .

I'm going to watch how this low-priced UMPC market develops, and then 
make a move at some point.  But battery life better beat what the EEE is 
doing.

So yes, Josh, it probably makes sense just to go with the Lenovo X series :)

George


From alex at pilosoft.com  Fri Jan 25 13:36:40 2008
From: alex at pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:36:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <479A2A55.4010801@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251335480.31497-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:

> There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the EEE.  
> .. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the DragonFly
> blog I caught this off of.
f all that

nokia 810 is where its *at*

better UMPC than all other UMPCs. 

not x86, but you don't want it to be. oh, and it runs linux natively. 
which, i suppose, on nycbug, wouldn't necessary be a plus, but...



From josh at rivels.org  Fri Jan 25 13:44:13 2008
From: josh at rivels.org (Josh Rivel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:44:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [slightly OT] VOIP provider?
In-Reply-To: <4797ADC6.4050103@goldenpath.org>
References: <20080122142128.GB8257@rivels.org>
	<4797ADC6.4050103@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <20080125184413.GB21539@rivels.org>

Tim-

Tim A. wrote...
> I use these as PSTN gateways, but they provide Hosted PBX as well:

[snip]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.  Unfortunately Optimum Lightpath
is not available to us (we're downtown, right near Suspenders and not
in a lit building - we can't even get a cable modem!)

Currently we have four T1's from InfoHighway, and their VOIP server
is publicly accessible on the internet (don't get me started about
all the security issues I found with them *after* we started using them, but
let's just say I know who all their clients are, have the MAC addresses
of all their phones, all their speed dials, internal network information,
etc.)

When we had M5 we had a private T1 for VOIP traffic direct into them,
then two T1's for data.

Ideally I'd like one carrier just for data, with maybe a 10mb line or so
(We have 6mb now and constantly max it out) and two separate T1's just for
VOIP traffic.

Josh


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 25 13:45:55 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:45:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251335480.31497-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251335480.31497-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
Message-ID: <479A2E63.7030305@ceetonetechnology.com>

Alex Pilosov wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:
> 
>> There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the EEE.  
>> .. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the DragonFly
>> blog I caught this off of.
> f all that
> 
> nokia 810 is where its *at*

I think Will BSDTalk has one of those. . . right Thomas?

> 
> better UMPC than all other UMPCs. 

Too tablet-y. . . and that keyboard looks rough.

> 
> not x86, but you don't want it to be. oh, and it runs linux natively. 

Yes, we know there are other things out there besides x86.  Or at least 
heard rumors.

> which, i suppose, on nycbug, wouldn't necessary be a plus, but...

But it does mean that it may be reasonably documented.

I don't think anyone here would consider the fact that something runs 
linux natively a bad thing. . .

g




From alex at pilosoft.com  Fri Jan 25 13:55:07 2008
From: alex at pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:55:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [slightly OT] VOIP provider?
In-Reply-To: <20080125184413.GB21539@rivels.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251353320.31866-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, Josh Rivel wrote:

> Currently we have four T1's from InfoHighway, and their VOIP server is
> publicly accessible on the internet (don't get me started about all the
> security issues I found with them *after* we started using them, but
> let's just say I know who all their clients are, have the MAC addresses
> of all their phones, all their speed dials, internal network
> information, etc.)
ftp access for configs is a dangerous thing. unfortunately, it is also the 
standard for ip phones autoconfig.

> 
> When we had M5 we had a private T1 for VOIP traffic direct into them,
> then two T1's for data.
> 
> Ideally I'd like one carrier just for data, with maybe a 10mb line or so
> (We have 6mb now and constantly max it out) and two separate T1's just
> for VOIP traffic.
what we provide is usually t1 + dsl for backup.

-alex





From ruben at mrbrklyn.com  Sat Jan 26 21:59:03 2008
From: ruben at mrbrklyn.com (Ruben Safir)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:59:03 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251335480.31497-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
References: <479A2A55.4010801@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0801251335480.31497-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
Message-ID: <20080127025903.GA31579@www2.mrbrklyn.com>

On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 01:36:40PM -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:
> 
> > There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the EEE.  
> > .. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the DragonFly
> > blog I caught this off of.
> f all that
> 
> nokia 810 is where its *at*
> 

Only if you want a machine that bricks easy and you need a magnifying glass
to read.  I purchased an ASUS EEE last week and it has a lot of things going
for it including a nice, readable keyboard, excellent wifi, and a bunch of
ports for things like a mouse, or monitor if you chose, a flash drive or
memory sticks.

Ruben

> better UMPC than all other UMPCs. 
> 
> not x86, but you don't want it to be. oh, and it runs linux natively. 
> which, i suppose, on nycbug, wouldn't necessary be a plus, but...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess you missed that one."

? Copyright for the Digital Millennium


From alex at pilosoft.com  Sat Jan 26 21:28:22 2008
From: alex at pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:28:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <20080127025903.GA31579@www2.mrbrklyn.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801262126230.15312-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Ruben Safir wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 01:36:40PM -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
> > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:
> > 
> > > There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the
> > > EEE.  .. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the
> > > DragonFly blog I caught this off of.
> > f all that
> > 
> > nokia 810 is where its *at*
> > 
> 
> Only if you want a machine that bricks easy and you need a magnifying
> glass to read.  I purchased an ASUS EEE last week and it has a lot of
> things going for it including a nice, readable keyboard, excellent wifi,
> and a bunch of ports for things like a mouse, or monitor if you chose, a
> flash drive or memory sticks.
Holy cow, Ruben's post that had no typos. 

Of course, he's still a crackpot.



-alex



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Jan 26 21:32:36 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:32:36 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FBSD on an Asus EEE
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801262126230.15312-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801262126230.15312-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
Message-ID: <479BED44.5030503@ceetonetechnology.com>

Alex Pilosov wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Ruben Safir wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 01:36:40PM -0500, Alex Pilosov wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's other low-priced UMPCs out there. . . not just OLPC and the
>>>> EEE.  .. There's also http://www.everex.com/press/ as noted in the
>>>> DragonFly blog I caught this off of.
>>> f all that
>>>
>>> nokia 810 is where its *at*
>>>
>> Only if you want a machine that bricks easy and you need a magnifying
>> glass to read.  I purchased an ASUS EEE last week and it has a lot of
>> things going for it including a nice, readable keyboard, excellent wifi,
>> and a bunch of ports for things like a mouse, or monitor if you chose, a
>> flash drive or memory sticks.
> Holy cow, Ruben's post that had no typos. 
> 
> Of course, he's still a crackpot.

be nyce. . .

inappropriate alex. . . that's not how this list werks.

you know that.

Geogre


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Jan 27 22:24:33 2008
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:24:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] cool FreeBSD port for jails
Message-ID: <479D4AF1.8040101@ceetonetechnology.com>

For a host jail system, this will run a portaudit on each jail's 
portaudit status, and can send them to individual jail admins.

https://anonsvn.h3q.com/projects/jailaudit/

George


From dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca  Tue Jan 29 13:28:38 2008
From: dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca (Dru)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:28:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dell server
Message-ID: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>


Someone on this list probably knows the answer to this question. Anything 
to be wary of running FreeBSD 6.2 on this hardware?

Cheers,

Dru

---


> Hey Dru,
>
> I'm thinking of buying this Dell server.  However, will FreeBSD run on it?

> Here's the link on Dell's site:

> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/2850_specs.pdf


From lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org  Tue Jan 29 13:46:18 2008
From: lavalamp at spiritual-machines.org (Brian A. Seklecki)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:46:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dell server
In-Reply-To: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
References: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
Message-ID: <20080129134507.W5392@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, Dru wrote:

>
> Someone on this list probably knows the answer to this question. Anything
> to be wary of running FreeBSD 6.2 on this hardware?
>

The 2950 R2 and R3 (Revision) are relatively stable.  Order addon em(4) 
cards and disable bce(4).  Avoid the PERC6 and stick with the PERC5.  See 
my recent summaries on freebsd-question at .

The 860 is essentialy a desktop in a rack case and is 100% solid.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Tue Jan 29 13:50:05 2008
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:50:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dell server
In-Reply-To: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
References: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
Message-ID: <20080129185001.GA9640@sunset.nomadlogic.org>

I've been running Free6.x on the 2650 with no issues.  I believe the main
difference is the fact that the 2650 uses the bge NIC and the 2850 uses
the em NIC.  I personally have had mixed results with the em driver
(works great on my IBM thinkpad...not too good on an IBM e325 1U
server).

HTH
-pete

On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 01:28:38PM -0500, Dru wrote:
> 
> Someone on this list probably knows the answer to this question. Anything 
> to be wary of running FreeBSD 6.2 on this hardware?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dru
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> > Hey Dru,
> >
> > I'm thinking of buying this Dell server.  However, will FreeBSD run on it?
> 
> > Here's the link on Dell's site:
> 
> > http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/2850_specs.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
~~oO00Oo~~
Peter Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org/~pete
310.869.9459



From dave at donnerjack.com  Tue Jan 29 13:50:30 2008
From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:50:30 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dell server
In-Reply-To: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
References: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
Message-ID: <37581B59-06CF-47F2-B23B-B45AB8D9EB4D@donnerjack.com>

As I recall, there used to be a bug in the USB keyboard handling in  
the kernel that made the first boot of that model a little exciting if  
it had a DRAC installed, you had to boot a rescue environment and  
tweak something in order to get it to boot clean.  That may be fixed  
in 6.2, I haven't done one of those in a while.  Other than that, I  
never ran into any problems with them.

--Dave
On Jan 29, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dru wrote:

>
> Someone on this list probably knows the answer to this question.  
> Anything
> to be wary of running FreeBSD 6.2 on this hardware?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dru
>
> ---
>
>
>> Hey Dru,
>>
>> I'm thinking of buying this Dell server.  However, will FreeBSD run  
>> on it?
>
>> Here's the link on Dell's site:
>
>> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/2850_specs.pdf
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



From dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca  Tue Jan 29 14:02:40 2008
From: dlavigne6 at sympatico.ca (Dru)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:02:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Dell server
In-Reply-To: <20080129134507.W5392@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
References: <20080129132711.X631@dru.domain.org>
	<20080129134507.W5392@arbitor.digitalfreaks.org>
Message-ID: <20080129140208.H631@dru.domain.org>



On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, Brian A. Seklecki wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, Dru wrote:
>
>> 
>> Someone on this list probably knows the answer to this question. Anything
>> to be wary of running FreeBSD 6.2 on this hardware?
>> 
>
> The 2950 R2 and R3 (Revision) are relatively stable.  Order addon em(4) cards 
> and disable bce(4).  Avoid the PERC6 and stick with the PERC5.  See my recent 
> summaries on freebsd-question at .
>
> The 860 is essentialy a desktop in a rack case and is 100% solid.


Thanks, all. I knew I'd get several quick answers from this list :-)

Cheers,

Dru


From jim at zaah.com  Wed Jan 30 18:41:10 2008
From: jim at zaah.com (Jim Cassata)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201361.93235.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I should have said pptp or L2tp vpn. for roaming mobile users, not site
to site. Can OpenBSD do this as well?

--- Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:

> On Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site
> IPSEC
> > VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good
> reference
> > materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> > client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> > wizard on user's XP laptops.
> 
> Here is a talk given by msf@ about IPsec improvements, including the
> steps to set up IPsec on Windows:
> 
> http://openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon07-ipsec/
> 
> -Ray-
> 


Thanks,

Jim Cassata
(516) 319-4267

This message may contain confidential or privileged information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein.  If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.


From nycbug at cyth.net  Wed Jan 30 20:07:40 2008
From: nycbug at cyth.net (Ray Lai)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:07:40 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <201361.93235.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>
	<201361.93235.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7765c0380801301707g113fc4f5nab77e26f292fbec9@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 30, 2008 6:41 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> I should have said pptp or L2tp vpn. for roaming mobile users, not site
> to site. Can OpenBSD do this as well?

I believe there are ports to do this sort of thing, though I have no
experience with VPNs.

-Ray-


> --- Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site
> > IPSEC
> > > VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good
> > reference
> > > materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> > > client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> > > wizard on user's XP laptops.
> >
> > Here is a talk given by msf@ about IPsec improvements, including the
> > steps to set up IPsec on Windows:
> >
> > http://openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon07-ipsec/
> >
> > -Ray-
> >
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim Cassata
> (516) 319-4267
>
> This message may contain confidential or privileged information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein.  If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Jan 30 20:36:33 2008
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:36:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD as a VPN device
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380801301707g113fc4f5nab77e26f292fbec9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380801101025m2f70617dg68a3f8d1ad36d729@mail.gmail.com>
	<201361.93235.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7765c0380801301707g113fc4f5nab77e26f292fbec9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080131013633.GE30027@clam.khaoz.org>

On Wed 2008.01.30 at 20:07 -0500, Ray Lai wrote:
> On Jan 30, 2008 6:41 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> > I should have said pptp or L2tp vpn. for roaming mobile users, not site
> > to site. Can OpenBSD do this as well?
> 
> I believe there are ports to do this sort of thing, though I have no
> experience with VPNs.

poptop, a pptp server.

> -Ray-
> 
> 
> > --- Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM, Jim Cassata <jim at zaah.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I am new to this group. We are using OpenBSD 4.2 for site to site
> > > IPSEC
> > > > VPN. I was wondering if anyone could point me to some good
> > > reference
> > > > materials or links to also use one these boxes for terminating
> > > > client(less) VPNs. Best thing would be able to use the built in VPN
> > > > wizard on user's XP laptops.
> > >
> > > Here is a talk given by msf@ about IPsec improvements, including the
> > > steps to set up IPsec on Windows:
> > >
> > > http://openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon07-ipsec/
> > >
> > > -Ray-
> > >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim Cassata
> > (516) 319-4267
> >
> > This message may contain confidential or privileged information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein.  If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk