From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov  1 00:16:40 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:16:40 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
Message-ID: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>

This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:

is.gd/sgZsW7

It goes to an ArsTechnica link.

But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash searches 
that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come back.

How unpleasant.

g


From dave at donnerjack.com  Thu Nov  1 00:42:51 2012
From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 00:42:51 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>


On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:16 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
> 
> is.gd/sgZsW7
> 
> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
> 
> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come back.

The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries, though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his blog.

--Dave




From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 01:04:09 2012
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 01:04:09 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5091D964.80504@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1351603322-5071558.34081192.fq9UDLmK5003901@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <CA+qr9e73Oirgzd5ftJETz_R+F2+y1VwoTLdAai7383TWZizKeQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5091D964.80504@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e6cQ0=P7AC4umK+ESq1uGKoFtXDYJhXVOJyU7yOjxgO2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Got confirmation everything is fine.

Thanks to asking,

Marc
On Nov 1, 2012 11:17 AM, "George Rosamond" <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:

> On 10/30/12 18:16, Marc Spitzer wrote:
>
>> In Tokyo waiting on the status of the apartment and the cat
>>
>
>
> let us know how it goes mark (offline, of course :)
>
> More than the usual on efnet #nycbug.
>
> Finally looked around today, a real mess.  We should replace these street
> trees with large bushes.
>
> g
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov  1 01:10:23 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 01:10:23 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
Message-ID: <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/01/12 00:42, David Lawson wrote:
> 
> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:16 AM, George Rosamond
> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
>> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
>> 
>> is.gd/sgZsW7
>> 
>> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
>> 
>> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash
>> searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come
>> back.
> 
> The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries,
> though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries
> prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the
> best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his
> blog.

Oh, he certainly does address it.

markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182

I especially like replies to "Why are you telling Amazon what I am
searching for?"

..."Ern, we have root."

Great way to inspire people to use OSS, aint it?  "I have root on your
box so screw you."

"Preserving anonymity" by trusting that project is laughable, at best.
Anonymity is not preserved by trust or policy, it's preserved *by
design*.  Look at Tor, GPG, etc.

And it takes little statistical hacking to deanonymize data like that.
Give an Amazon your IP and queries, and it's not anonymous.  Remember
the "anonymized" AOL data a few years back?

Who cares if it's encrypted at that point.

g



From okan at demirmen.com  Thu Nov  1 09:16:04 2012
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:16:04 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20121101131604.GE17821@clam.khaoz.org>

On Thu 2012.11.01 at 00:16 -0400, George Rosamond wrote:
> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
> 
> is.gd/sgZsW7
> 
> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
> 
> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash
> searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come back.
> 
> How unpleasant.

If I listed how many things are unpleasant...well, the list would never
end.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Nov  1 13:04:34 2012
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:04:34 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
 <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>

On 10/31/12 10:10 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
> On 11/01/12 00:42, David Lawson wrote:
>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:16 AM, George Rosamond
>> <george at ceetonetechnology.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
>>>
>>> is.gd/sgZsW7
>>>
>>> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
>>>
>>> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash
>>> searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come
>>> back.
>> The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries,
>> though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries
>> prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the
>> best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his
>> blog.
> Oh, he certainly does address it.
>
> markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182
>
> I especially like replies to "Why are you telling Amazon what I am
> searching for?"
>
> ..."Ern, we have root."
>
> Great way to inspire people to use OSS, aint it?  "I have root on your
> box so screw you."
>
> "Preserving anonymity" by trusting that project is laughable, at best.
> Anonymity is not preserved by trust or policy, it's preserved *by
> design*.  Look at Tor, GPG, etc.
>
> And it takes little statistical hacking to deanonymize data like that.
> Give an Amazon your IP and queries, and it's not anonymous.  Remember
> the "anonymized" AOL data a few years back?

this whole debacle was pretty interesting to me - esp the initial 
reaction/disregard for privacy from shuttleworth.

regarding anonymizing data that is actively being mined - it really is a 
loaded term.  In Germany for example, you can't store IP addresses and 
associate them with cookies(1) if the user requests so.  Yet once an 
adnetwork has dropped a cookie on your system the IP is almost a moot 
point, they can deduce your geolocation and mine your browsing habbits 
w/o a full IP address.  Once a UUID/cookie is installed on your system 
that is all that matters frankly.  And believe me - there is active work 
happening to correlate these UID's b/w multiple devices.

gathering/mining and analyzing all of this data is *very* expensive and 
it would not be happening if there was monetary value in it.  the fact 
that a company backed by OSS developers is leveraging their user base 
(and good will) for financial gain is pretty appalling IMHO.  not that 
they shouldn't seek novel ways to monetize their product, but the way 
they are going about it is so one sided in favor of amazon is what i 
really have problems with.

-pete

(1)http://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2011/09/articles/use-of-google-analytics-now-lawful-in-germany-subject-to-certain-guidelines/

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov  1 13:52:24 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 13:52:24 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
 <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com> <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <5092B6D8.3020105@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/01/12 13:04, Pete Wright wrote:
> On 10/31/12 10:10 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> On 11/01/12 00:42, David Lawson wrote:
>>> On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:16 AM, George Rosamond
>>> <george at ceetonetechnology.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
>>>>
>>>> is.gd/sgZsW7
>>>>
>>>> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
>>>>
>>>> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash
>>>> searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come
>>>> back.
>>> The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries,
>>> though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries
>>> prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the
>>> best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his
>>> blog.
>> Oh, he certainly does address it.
>>
>> markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182
>>
>> I especially like replies to "Why are you telling Amazon what I am
>> searching for?"
>>
>> ..."Ern, we have root."
>>
>> Great way to inspire people to use OSS, aint it?  "I have root on your
>> box so screw you."
>>
>> "Preserving anonymity" by trusting that project is laughable, at best.
>> Anonymity is not preserved by trust or policy, it's preserved *by
>> design*.  Look at Tor, GPG, etc.
>>
>> And it takes little statistical hacking to deanonymize data like that.
>> Give an Amazon your IP and queries, and it's not anonymous.  Remember
>> the "anonymized" AOL data a few years back?
> 
> this whole debacle was pretty interesting to me - esp the initial
> reaction/disregard for privacy from shuttleworth.
> 
> regarding anonymizing data that is actively being mined - it really is a
> loaded term.  In Germany for example, you can't store IP addresses and



More on the AOL issue, if anyone doesn't remember:

http://techcrunch.com/2006/08/06/aol-proudly-releases-massive-amounts-of-user-search-data/

Hey, there's even a wikipedia page about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_leak

> associate them with cookies(1) if the user requests so.  Yet once an
> adnetwork has dropped a cookie on your system the IP is almost a moot

aka zombie cookie, flash LSO, supercookie, whatever, right?

> point, they can deduce your geolocation and mine your browsing habbits
> w/o a full IP address.  Once a UUID/cookie is installed on your system
> that is all that matters frankly.  And believe me - there is active work
> happening to correlate these UID's b/w multiple devices.

Definitely.  Give an inch and a mile can be grabbed.

Add that to ISPs tagging packets with user zip code, and you have a
wealth of information.

> 
> gathering/mining and analyzing all of this data is *very* expensive and
> it would not be happening if there was monetary value in it.  the fact

Is it really *that* expensive?  Of course Amazon is doing it for a
reason, and it's worthwhile, but aggregating data and storing on itself
isn't.  Having the mechanism to analyze is higher cost, but with any
group's search data, I'm sure it's worth it.

> that a company backed by OSS developers is leveraging their user base
> (and good will) for financial gain is pretty appalling IMHO.  not that
> they shouldn't seek novel ways to monetize their product, but the way
> they are going about it is so one sided in favor of amazon is what i
> really have problems with.
> 

Yeah, this is why I am speaking so, er, sharply, about the issue.

I don't think Ubuntun has funding issues like other projects, first of all.

But to act like it's in the user base's interest is a joke.  Then make
it a f'g package, and not default.

But I just can't get rid of this "I have root on your box" attitude.  Woah.

Arrogance + a complete misunderstanding of OSS

g

> -pete
> 
> (1)http://www.huntonprivacyblog.com/2011/09/articles/use-of-google-analytics-now-lawful-in-germany-subject-to-certain-guidelines/
> 
> 



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Nov  1 14:22:31 2012
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:22:31 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5092B6D8.3020105@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
 <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com> <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
 <5092B6D8.3020105@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <5092BDE7.8030503@nomadlogic.org>

On 11/01/12 10:52, George Rosamond wrote:
>> gathering/mining and analyzing all of this data is *very* expensive and
>> it would not be happening if there was monetary value in it.  the fact
> Is it really *that* expensive?  Of course Amazon is doing it for a
> reason, and it's worthwhile, but aggregating data and storing on itself
> isn't.  Having the mechanism to analyze is higher cost, but with any
> group's search data, I'm sure it's worth it.
>

while initially it seems like a pretty simple problem to solve.  you run 
a website and/or adserver - you drop a cookie in a browser and log every 
time you see that cookie UUID show up when being served another ad or 
page impression in the future.  but lets get a little crazy and serve an 
add that is related to what we suspect your interests are based on past 
impressions, i.e. targeting in the adserver world.

it gets expensive when you want access, process, slice and dice this 
data in a reliable manner so we can target ads at you quickly and 
efficiently.  reliable is the key term here.  sure you can dump all your 
access_logs into S3 - but if you want to do any sort of processing on 
this data you most likely are doing to do some mapreduce'ie type of work 
and eventually dump that processed data into a relational database at 
some point.

then you decide that generating reports isn't enough, you want your 
servers to act on this data in a timely manner...so then you build an 
infrastructure that can do high speed data warehousing and 
analytics...then you realize "oh, poop.  ec2 kinda sucks since it is 
predicated on being unreliable.  now i gotta either duplicate all my ec2 
instances in N+1 regions or build my own global infrasturcture."  and 
then the next thing you know you have a bigger backend supporting your 
adserver or website, just to mine user data.

but i digress...sure, storing data is relatively cheap.  actually 
turning that data into something you can monetize is an expensive 
enterprise.

also...have you seen how the cost of coffee is going up these days(1) 
maybe that is where all the money is going - you gotta feed these coders 
one way or another :)

-pete
(1)http://oqcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/coffee.png

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Thu Nov  1 15:15:19 2012
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 15:15:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <1351797364-5900344.98823235.fqA1JFKmQ023928@rs139.luxsci.com>

On Nov 1, 2012, at 12:16 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> This isn't a linux discussion list, but think this is relevant:
> 
> is.gd/sgZsW7
> 
> It goes to an ArsTechnica link.
> 
> But basically, the new Ubuntu has a default feature with Dash searches that sends them to Amazon, and (unencrypted) ads come back.
> 
> How unpleasant.
> 
> g

Horrible, but sadly not a surprise, from an OS which regularly re-writes it's motd regularly with advertisements, as well as providing information that users/administrators could drop in as a login script:

--
Welcome to Ubuntu 11.10 (GNU/Linux 3.0.0-14-virtual x86_64)

 * Documentation:  https://help.ubuntu.com/

  System information as of Thu Nov  1 15:11:43 EDT 2012

  System load:  x.xx              Processes:           xxx
  Usage of /:   xx.x% of xx.xGB   Users logged in:     xx
  Memory usage: xx%               IP address for eth0: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
  Swap usage:   xx%

  Graph this data and manage this system at https://landscape.canonical.com/
New release '12.04 LTS' available.
Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it.

Get cloud support with Ubuntu Advantage Cloud Guest
  http://www.ubuntu.com/business/services/cloud
--

Kep your barfbags close,
.ike





From freebsd-listen at fabiankeil.de  Thu Nov  1 15:29:18 2012
From: freebsd-listen at fabiankeil.de (Fabian Keil)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:29:18 +0100
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
 <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20121101202918.26e6ed97@fabiankeil.de>

Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> On 10/31/12 10:10 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
> > On 11/01/12 00:42, David Lawson wrote:

> >> The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries,
> >> though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries
> >> prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the
> >> best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his
> >> blog.
> > Oh, he certainly does address it.
> >
> > markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182
> >
> > I especially like replies to "Why are you telling Amazon what I am
> > searching for?"
> >
> > ..."Ern, we have root."
> >
> > Great way to inspire people to use OSS, aint it?  "I have root on your
> > box so screw you."
> >
> > "Preserving anonymity" by trusting that project is laughable, at best.
> > Anonymity is not preserved by trust or policy, it's preserved *by
> > design*.  Look at Tor, GPG, etc.
> >
> > And it takes little statistical hacking to deanonymize data like that.
> > Give an Amazon your IP and queries, and it's not anonymous.  Remember
> > the "anonymized" AOL data a few years back?
> 
> this whole debacle was pretty interesting to me - esp the initial 
> reaction/disregard for privacy from shuttleworth.
> 
> regarding anonymizing data that is actively being mined - it really is a 
> loaded term.  In Germany for example, you can't store IP addresses and 
> associate them with cookies(1) if the user requests so.

Actually you (legally) need the user's consent. Of course you are also
obligated to allow users who consented to the data mining in the past
to opt-out again, but users who never gave consent in the first place
do not have to request anything (?4 I BDSG).

The referenced article is grossly misleading, probably because they didn't
get their information from the actual law, but trusted a (ridiculous)
press release of the "data protection authority of the German federal
state of Hamburg", which has no authority to decide under which conditions
the use of "Google Analytics" is lawful in Germany.

>                                                          Yet once an 
> adnetwork has dropped a cookie on your system the IP is almost a moot 
> point, they can deduce your geolocation and mine your browsing habbits 
> w/o a full IP address.

This isn't really a loop hole, though, because it requires consent as well.

The main problem with the German (and European) privacy laws is that they
are rarely enforced and thus there's no strong incentive to respect them.

Fabian
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From edlinuxguru at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 23:48:31 2012
From: edlinuxguru at gmail.com (Edward Capriolo)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 23:48:31 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Scary Ubuntu privacy junk
In-Reply-To: <20121101202918.26e6ed97@fabiankeil.de>
References: <5091F7A8.7090005@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8FCA5204-F94F-48E4-82D7-55789C72B22C@donnerjack.com>
 <5092043F.1040708@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <5092ABA2.7030901@nomadlogic.org>
 <20121101202918.26e6ed97@fabiankeil.de>
Message-ID: <CAENxBwzAZoh8J7uzz457ensVgF5gogSvjfWTxGPTAqN9UuXn5g@mail.gmail.com>

I was surprised to learn that libraries like the quartz scheduler have
phone home code built in. We had it running on a server with no outbound
and saw activity.


On Thursday, November 1, 2012, Fabian Keil <freebsd-listen at fabiankeil.de>
wrote:
> Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10/31/12 10:10 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> > On 11/01/12 00:42, David Lawson wrote:
>
>> >> The Quantal release version of the Amazon lens encrypts the queries,
>> >> though the beta version did not.  It also anonymizes the queries
>> >> prior to Amazon seeing them, which has always been the case to the
>> >> best of my knowledge.  Mark has addressed both of those points on his
>> >> blog.
>> > Oh, he certainly does address it.
>> >
>> > markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182
>> >
>> > I especially like replies to "Why are you telling Amazon what I am
>> > searching for?"
>> >
>> > ..."Ern, we have root."
>> >
>> > Great way to inspire people to use OSS, aint it?  "I have root on your
>> > box so screw you."
>> >
>> > "Preserving anonymity" by trusting that project is laughable, at best.
>> > Anonymity is not preserved by trust or policy, it's preserved *by
>> > design*.  Look at Tor, GPG, etc.
>> >
>> > And it takes little statistical hacking to deanonymize data like that.
>> > Give an Amazon your IP and queries, and it's not anonymous.  Remember
>> > the "anonymized" AOL data a few years back?
>>
>> this whole debacle was pretty interesting to me - esp the initial
>> reaction/disregard for privacy from shuttleworth.
>>
>> regarding anonymizing data that is actively being mined - it really is a
>> loaded term.  In Germany for example, you can't store IP addresses and
>> associate them with cookies(1) if the user requests so.
>
> Actually you (legally) need the user's consent. Of course you are also
> obligated to allow users who consented to the data mining in the past
> to opt-out again, but users who never gave consent in the first place
> do not have to request anything (?4 I BDSG).
>
> The referenced article is grossly misleading, probably because they didn't
> get their information from the actual law, but trusted a (ridiculous)
> press release of the "data protection authority of the German federal
> state of Hamburg", which has no authority to decide under which conditions
> the use of "Google Analytics" is lawful in Germany.
>
>>                                                          Yet once an
>> adnetwork has dropped a cookie on your system the IP is almost a moot
>> point, they can deduce your geolocation and mine your browsing habbits
>> w/o a full IP address.
>
> This isn't really a loop hole, though, because it requires consent as
well.
>
> The main problem with the German (and European) privacy laws is that they
> are rarely enforced and thus there's no strong incentive to respect them.
>
> Fabian
>
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From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Nov  2 17:44:46 2012
From: nycbug at wynn.com (nycbug at wynn.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:44:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <508FE751.4020409@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>

Greeting-

Just got my internet back on line.  Megapath is still down, but I am up
on wireless with VPN to someone advertising my route.

Took me 3 days to reach someone at megapath that had a clue when I said
stop advertising my route.

I now have tons of inbound email that is flowing in, so I suspect that I will
be digging out of the email backlog for some time.

Home undamaged, one car with tree limb damage.  Wife, cat, and I are fine.

No idea about boat or plane can not reach the airport or the marina.  

I have not read everyone's response, but I hope all are fine.  

-Brett


From spork at bway.net  Fri Nov  2 17:59:07 2012
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 17:59:07 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>

On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nycbug at wynn.com wrote:

> Greeting-
> 
> Just got my internet back on line.  Megapath is still down, but I am up
> on wireless with VPN to someone advertising my route.

FWIW, we saw more than half of our monitored customers come back
around 4:55.  Canal St, Lower East Side, SoHo.  Still seeing some
way-downtown clients down and some people north of the main blackout
area down, but those could be either specific CO issues or some
Megapath weirdness where a random ATM switch across the island is
still dead..

> Took me 3 days to reach someone at megapath that had a clue when I said
> stop advertising my route.

You should always work with an ISP that's a MP wholesaler. :)

> I now have tons of inbound email that is flowing in, so I suspect that I will
> be digging out of the email backlog for some time.
> 
> Home undamaged, one car with tree limb damage.  Wife, cat, and I are fine.
> 
> No idea about boat or plane can not reach the airport or the marina.

Good worries to have though.

> I have not read everyone's response, but I hope all are fine.  

Same here.

Now where can one get gas in Brooklyn???

Charles

-- 
Charles Sprickman
NetEng/SysAdmin
Bway.net - New York's Best Internet www.bway.net
spork at bway.net - 212.982.9800


> -Brett
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Fri Nov  2 18:52:08 2012
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:52:08 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <1351896782-2892311.97894721.fqA2Mq8o5001260@rs139.luxsci.com>

On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nycbug at wynn.com wrote:

> Greeting-
> 
> Just got my internet back on line.  Megapath is still down, but I am up
> on wireless with VPN to someone advertising my route.
> 
> Took me 3 days to reach someone at megapath that had a clue when I said
> stop advertising my route.
> 
> I now have tons of inbound email that is flowing in, so I suspect that I will
> be digging out of the email backlog for some time.
> 
> Home undamaged, one car with tree limb damage.  Wife, cat, and I are fine.
> 
> No idea about boat or plane can not reach the airport or the marina.  
> 
> I have not read everyone's response, but I hope all are fine.  
> 
> -Brett

Excellent!

Best,
.ike





From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Fri Nov  2 18:53:27 2012
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 18:53:27 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
 <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
Message-ID: <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>

On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:

> Now where can one get gas in Brooklyn???

I'll loan you my bike :)

Rocket-
.ike



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 22:12:29 2012
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 22:12:29 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
 <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
 <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>

On 11/2/12 6:53 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
>
>> Now where can one get gas in Brooklyn???
They were saying on NPR that the Coast Guard was keeping gas barges away 
from docks before this and that we should be getting gas as of tonight.
No mention of where though.





From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Nov  2 23:10:03 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 23:10:03 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
 <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
 <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50948B0B.8010201@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/02/12 22:12, Patrick McEvoy wrote:
> On 11/2/12 6:53 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
>>
>>> Now where can one get gas in Brooklyn???
> They were saying on NPR that the Coast Guard was keeping gas barges away
> from docks before this and that we should be getting gas as of tonight.
> No mention of where though.
>

I drove out to the Rockaways with a buddy today, and saw gas lines or 
empty gas stations all along Flatbush Ave.

Now OT...

And if you think the Rockaways look bad online or on TV, you get no 
sense of the scale of the damage until you see it.  Really horrifying. 
It looks like a war zone.

Food lines, long blocks burnt out, FEMA trucks, the water came in from 
the sea and reached the bay, probably at least 4' high as the debris in 
chain-linked fences reveals.  There is no more boardwalk from what I 
could see.  Sections of intact boardwalk, lamp post and "lifeguard on 
duty" sign, are some 300 yards from the original spot.

And lots of people desperate for D batteries.

Yet still had better cell connectivity than in Manhattan.

g


From thornton.richard at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 07:24:12 2012
From: thornton.richard at gmail.com (Richard Thornton)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 07:24:12 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
 <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
 <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-Ry4phDP9v2RT1GgpV3r2NAS+BcGEDNFOwW47KahsQXGBNVQ@mail.gmail.com>

This disaster is  30% storm, 70% sub par infrastructure in ny, nj.  This is
a joke, 5 days no electricity in Princeton area over a wind??? Amazing!!
On Nov 2, 2012 10:17 PM, "Patrick McEvoy" <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/2/12 6:53 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
>>
>>  Now where can one get gas in Brooklyn???
>>>
>> They were saying on NPR that the Coast Guard was keeping gas barges away
> from docks before this and that we should be getting gas as of tonight.
> No mention of where though.
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>
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From raulcuza at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 09:47:17 2012
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ra=C3=BAl_Cuza?=)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 09:47:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <CAP-Ry4phDP9v2RT1GgpV3r2NAS+BcGEDNFOwW47KahsQXGBNVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201211022144.qA2LikVr028438@mail.wynn.com>
 <98EBB0A4-8DF1-46C0-AC68-C4619B3F24A6@bway.net>
 <1351896843-6625799.5409253.fqA2MrRLa002437@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50947D8D.8030403@gmail.com>
 <CAP-Ry4phDP9v2RT1GgpV3r2NAS+BcGEDNFOwW47KahsQXGBNVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <668F20BB-7B9A-41AA-AC27-EA276006B429@gmail.com>

On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:24, Richard Thornton <thornton.richard at gmail.com> wrote:

> This disaster is  30% storm, 70% sub par infrastructure in ny, nj.  This is a joke, 5 days no electricity in Princeton area over a wind??? Amazing!!

If it was just Princeton, I would share your indignation, but it was more wide spread disruption. Even if all the utility companies were fully staffed, which they are not because the staff lived in the area of destruction, they would not be able to repair all areas at once. Where they focus their efforts will say a lot about their effective values. If the repairs are coordinated by goverment officials, then it will be their values put to the test. 

I was going on and on about resource planning for building a successful web application at dinner one night to the rolled eyes of those less fascinated by operational problems. A doctor at the table came back with this: what would happen if NYC area was hit by a fatal infectious disease that has a 100% cure rate using a ventilator? 

There are 140 hospitals in the immediate area with about 30 ICU beds each. Given that they have back up ventilators and that there might be some in the supply chain, you would have about 50 per hospital. That means only 7000 people could be treated at once. This is not taking into account that you need trained people to run the ventilators.

7000 thousand seems like a lot, but it does not take much imagination to see what kind if infection rate would turn this into a tragedy.  

I propose something similar is happening with utility repairs. It also appears to me that the effect of the storm on the repair people is not insignificant. 

Repair could of been faster or avoided if underground electrical equipment was more widely used (assuming flooding does damage it), but is it worth the long term operational costs?

Ra?l

Sent from a mobile eMate 300




From nikolai at fetissov.org  Sat Nov  3 17:27:24 2012
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (Nikolai Fetissov)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 17:27:24 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] post-Sandy status
In-Reply-To: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>

> Just opening up a 'status' thread here.
>
> How is everyone?
>

Sorry I'm late to the party.
We lost power and iternet in CT (and Metro-North).
Lots of trees and wires down, cleanup is still underway.
Back to normal now, will be in the city Monday.

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai


From korszca at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 13:13:38 2012
From: korszca at gmail.com (Korszca Korszca)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:13:38 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] post-Sandy status
In-Reply-To: <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
References: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
Message-ID: <CADfRnuiTf22GUz5OMJC8omwL4L+OQ0yxrmL9V=5SZFR4QOkPUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone, I know it's been a while since I've been to a meeting or
posted but just a heads-up, my part of NJ (dead central NJ on the
shore) has been devastated. I just got power back, been out since
Monday. And the 70s are back here with gas rationing.

If you guys can avoid coastal NJ for a while, I'd highly recommend it.

~Brian


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Nov  4 15:20:57 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 15:20:57 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] post-Sandy status
In-Reply-To: <CADfRnuiTf22GUz5OMJC8omwL4L+OQ0yxrmL9V=5SZFR4QOkPUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
 <CADfRnuiTf22GUz5OMJC8omwL4L+OQ0yxrmL9V=5SZFR4QOkPUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5096CE29.108@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/04/12 13:13, Korszca Korszca wrote:
> Hey everyone, I know it's been a while since I've been to a meeting or
> posted but just a heads-up, my part of NJ (dead central NJ on the
> shore) has been devastated. I just got power back, been out since
> Monday. And the 70s are back here with gas rationing.
>

Wow.  Yeah, spent some time in the Rockaways.  That's been hit badly too.

> If you guys can avoid coastal NJ for a while, I'd highly recommend it.
>

Let us know if we can do anything remote.  Seriously.  (you can ping me 
offlist).

g


From matthewstory at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 15:26:23 2012
From: matthewstory at gmail.com (Matthew Story)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:26:23 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] post-Sandy status
In-Reply-To: <5096CE29.108@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
 <CADfRnuiTf22GUz5OMJC8omwL4L+OQ0yxrmL9V=5SZFR4QOkPUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5096CE29.108@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAB+9ogfUL1zMBH6T_5nski+js-rug3RcGFgR1mLw7L5JjN6bxA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 3:20 PM, George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> On 11/04/12 13:13, Korszca Korszca wrote:
>>
>> Hey everyone, I know it's been a while since I've been to a meeting or
>> posted but just a heads-up, my part of NJ (dead central NJ on the
>> shore) has been devastated. I just got power back, been out since
>> Monday. And the 70s are back here with gas rationing.
>>
>
> Wow.  Yeah, spent some time in the Rockaways.  That's been hit badly too.
>
>
>> If you guys can avoid coastal NJ for a while, I'd highly recommend it.
>>
>
> Let us know if we can do anything remote.  Seriously.  (you can ping me
> offlist).

Back online in the LES, lost power / inet / cell from Monday - Friday
evening.  Office was also down until Saturday morning (Flat-Iron).
Went out to volunteer in the LES yesterday, but it seemed like the
neighborhood had already recovered (at least the parts we were
dispatched to help).

>
>
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



-- 
regards,
matt


From spork at bway.net  Sun Nov  4 16:30:09 2012
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 16:30:09 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] post-Sandy status
In-Reply-To: <01FB318A-6F57-42F1-80EC-1F074C101FD5@bway.net>
References: <508FD4A8.2040907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <30a0cfb40707a07a6a995661c24130fa.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
 <CADfRnuiTf22GUz5OMJC8omwL4L+OQ0yxrmL9V=5SZFR4QOkPUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <01FB318A-6F57-42F1-80EC-1F074C101FD5@bway.net>
Message-ID: <D6BC9819-83FC-46E3-9629-781C2E84D5DE@bway.net>

On Nov 4, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Korszca Korszca wrote:

> Hey everyone, I know it's been a while since I've been to a meeting or
> posted but just a heads-up, my part of NJ (dead central NJ on the
> shore) has been devastated. I just got power back, been out since
> Monday.

I'm much further inland, and JCP&L is not being nearly as speedy
with getting the power back.

The worst damage is "downstream" of my apartment (3rd image):

http://imgur.com/a/oORNq

The dogs were enjoying Park Slope today though, they told me it was
way more high class than the place we're staying in Crown Heights.
My host told me yesterday that the one nice pizza joint in PS is
scared to deliver to CH, perhaps they're stuck in a time warp or
something.

> And the 70s are back here with gas rationing.

Out here (crown heights again, for those not following along at
home) the feds were giving out some gas, but you needed a gas can,
no cars were being served.  The Gulf station on the corner
apparently got a delivery and sold out all while I was out.

> If you guys can avoid coastal NJ for a while, I'd highly recommend it.

If I could avoid all of NJ forever, I would. :)

Charles

> ~Brian
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Nov  9 20:56:48 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 20:56:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
Message-ID: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>

Some people picked up their BeagleBones Wednesday, but I am still 
waiting on others.  It's your turn to chase me to get it :)

I posted the *first* dmesg on dmesgd, just using SK's image.  A lot of 
commits have happened since his build...

http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2421

Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that they 
should vary too much), and that we start opening up the discussion about 
uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.

And we should probably use the February meeting to sort out how to do 
present topics related: u-boot, making a custom image, custom kernel, 
etc., if not before in some hackfest-type scenario.

g


From lists at intricatesoftware.com  Mon Nov 12 00:42:34 2012
From: lists at intricatesoftware.com (Kurt Miller)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 00:42:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
Message-ID: <201211120042.35014.lists@intricatesoftware.com>

On Saturday 03 November 2012 7:24:12 am Richard Thornton wrote:
> This disaster is  30% storm, 70% sub par infrastructure in ny, nj.  This is
> a joke, 5 days no electricity in Princeton area over a wind??? Amazing!!

I'll see your 5 days and raise you to 13 days no power in Port Washington.

There are many on Long Island still without power somewhere around 20-30%
of customers although that might go down to 10% if you believe LIPA in two
more days.

What has happend here make me think of Atlas Shrugged. :-(

-Kurt


From spork at bway.net  Mon Nov 12 01:00:27 2012
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 01:00:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Post-Hurricane Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <201211120042.35014.lists@intricatesoftware.com>
References: <201211120042.35014.lists@intricatesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <AC2895E6-10B6-4C47-AA2E-2C8E044D6E45@bway.net>

On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:42 AM, Kurt Miller wrote:

> On Saturday 03 November 2012 7:24:12 am Richard Thornton wrote:
>> This disaster is  30% storm, 70% sub par infrastructure in ny, nj.  This is
>> a joke, 5 days no electricity in Princeton area over a wind??? Amazing!!
> 
> I'll see your 5 days and raise you to 13 days no power in Port Washington.

Got mine yesterday, 12 days, JCP&L almost hit the two week mark.

The actual on the ground work required to get my place plus a townhome development back was under a day.  The time required to get a few hundred downstream customers up was an additional two days.  So 9 days of no work + 3 days of work = 12 day outage.

> There are many on Long Island still without power somewhere around 20-30%
> of customers although that might go down to 10% if you believe LIPA in two
> more days.

There was a great story about how antiquated LIPA's tracking system was on WNYC.  They even noted that it runs on COBOL which I think they called a "primitive" programming language that "runs on mainframes".

> What has happend here make me think of Atlas Shrugged. :-

Makes me think that loosely regulated utilities will cut costs at every opportunity in an utterly selfish pursuit of profits that's somehow justified by a smug reassurance that they are the chosen "makers", but I'm a socialist commie. :)  We could all build our own generation plants I suppose...

Seriously though, at least with JCP&L (First Energy), they have been posting great profits while cutting costs... meaning: reduced staff, less maintenance, fewer spares of everything on-hand, consolidation across their various territories for better "efficiency" that breaks down when large-scale storms hit, and the service level and MTTR is getting worse each year.

Charles

> -Kurt
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From mikel.king at olivent.com  Thu Nov 15 12:59:14 2012
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:59:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] hackberry a10
Message-ID: <68F1DBB5-DC7D-45D2-BD0E-9A8851948791@olivent.com>

Anyone seen on of these before? Any experience?

https://www.miniand.com/products/Hackberry%20A10%20Developer%20Board



From ericshane at eradman.com  Thu Nov 15 14:40:46 2012
From: ericshane at eradman.com (Eric Radman)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:40:46 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>

On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:56:48PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
> 
> Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that
> they should vary too much), and that we start opening up the
> discussion about uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.

It would be cool if collocation services were available for these boards!
The low space & power requirements would be perfect for a blade-like
chassis and I bet the price could be competitive with VPS.

Eric


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Nov 15 14:48:29 2012
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 11:48:29 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
Message-ID: <50A5470D.8000309@nomadlogic.org>

On 11/15/12 11:40, Eric Radman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:56:48PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>> Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that
>> they should vary too much), and that we start opening up the
>> discussion about uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.
> It would be cool if collocation services were available for these boards!
> The low space&  power requirements would be perfect for a blade-like
> chassis and I bet the price could be competitive with VPS.

On a similar vein (low profile/low power sysetms on a board) I've been 
working on these guys and they seem "ok" so far.  def still having 
growing pains, but they are promising solution:

http://www.seamicro.com/products/sm10K_overview

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From skreuzer at exit2shell.com  Thu Nov 15 15:08:35 2012
From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:08:35 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
Message-ID: <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>


On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Eric Radman <ericshane at eradman.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:56:48PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>> 
>> Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that
>> they should vary too much), and that we start opening up the
>> discussion about uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.
> 
> It would be cool if collocation services were available for these boards!
> The low space & power requirements would be perfect for a blade-like
> chassis and I bet the price could be competitive with VPS.


There is a colo in Austria that is offering to host Raspberry Pis free of charge

https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/





From edlinuxguru at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 15:17:24 2012
From: edlinuxguru at gmail.com (Edward Capriolo)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:17:24 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
Message-ID: <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>

Next tech crazy...

Raspberry Pis cloud


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Steven Kreuzer <skreuzer at exit2shell.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Eric Radman <ericshane at eradman.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:56:48PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that
>>> they should vary too much), and that we start opening up the
>>> discussion about uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.
>>
>> It would be cool if collocation services were available for these boards!
>> The low space & power requirements would be perfect for a blade-like
>> chassis and I bet the price could be competitive with VPS.
>
>
> There is a colo in Austria that is offering to host Raspberry Pis free of charge
>
> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


From billtotman at billtotman.com  Thu Nov 15 15:23:33 2012
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (Bill Totman)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:23:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
 <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF78C047-15A0-44C7-8E94-33E55D83B436@billtotman.com>


On Nov 15, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru at gmail.com> wrote:

> Next tech crazy...
> 
> Raspberry Pis cloud
> 
> 
> <snip>

Another pie in the sky solution?

;)

-bt


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov 15 15:29:26 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:29:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
 <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50A550A6.2070004@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/15/12 15:17, Edward Capriolo wrote:
> Next tech crazy...
>
> Raspberry Pis cloud
>

"Why I Hate Top-Posting" December 5th ;)

More below.

>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Steven Kreuzer <skreuzer at exit2shell.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Eric Radman <ericshane at eradman.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 09, 2012 at 08:56:48PM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I encourage others to start posting their dmesgs (not that
>>>> they should vary too much), and that we start opening up the
>>>> discussion about uses, eg., DNS, SIP server, etc.
>>>
>>> It would be cool if collocation services were available for these boards!
>>> The low space & power requirements would be perfect for a blade-like
>>> chassis and I bet the price could be competitive with VPS.
>>
>>
>> There is a colo in Austria that is offering to host Raspberry Pis free of charge
>>
>> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/

Raspberry Bush?

ShameFUL plug:

http://queair.net/hardware.html

Just let me know offlist.  Cheaper than most people give /29's.

I'm having a blast right now with my BeagleBone.  I think the uses are 
pretty extensive.  Remote monitoring node or onsite agent.  caching DNS. 
  Tor.  SIP server?

Fits anywhere, low power, no noise.  Just minimize writes to the 
microSD.  And if going FreeBSD CURRENT, wait until it's production ready.

We will be taking another batch of BeagleBone orders soon, so keep your 
ears open.

g



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov 15 15:33:17 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:33:17 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] hackberry a10
In-Reply-To: <68F1DBB5-DC7D-45D2-BD0E-9A8851948791@olivent.com>
References: <68F1DBB5-DC7D-45D2-BD0E-9A8851948791@olivent.com>
Message-ID: <50A5518D.2080000@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/15/12 12:59, Mikel King wrote:
> Anyone seen on of these before? Any experience?
>
> https://www.miniand.com/products/Hackberry%20A10%20Developer%20Board
>

Not yet, but I intend to go on an ARM buying spree in the near future.

And for FreeBSD, Tim's install script should easily extend beyond just 
BeagleBones, Raspberry Pis and PandaBoards.

I would be curious to hear other ARM-based hardware people are hacking 
on.  I know Nikolai, Mike N and others are playing with some similar boards.

g



From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Nov 15 16:53:56 2012
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:53:56 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
Message-ID: <20121115165356.139188e4@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:08:35 -0500
Steven Kreuzer <skreuzer at exit2shell.com> wrote:

> 
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 2:40 PM, Eric Radman <ericshane at eradman.com>
> wrote:
> 

> 
> There is a colo in Austria that is offering to host Raspberry Pis
> free of charge
> 
> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/

Greeting-

Sounds like my pi (when I order it) may end up there running BIND as my
secondary DNS server.

How cool!

-Brett


-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com
917-642-6924
718-717-5435


From ahpook at verizon.net  Thu Nov 15 15:51:53 2012
From: ahpook at verizon.net (Ah Pook)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:51:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <50A550A6.2070004@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
 <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <50A550A6.2070004@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <50A555E9.9050400@verizon.net>

Any recommendations for cheapo little touchscreens?  Maybe up to 4x6?  I 
know nothing, but these little boards are making me want to do crazy 
things.  :-D



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Nov 15 23:27:57 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:27:57 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBones
In-Reply-To: <50A555E9.9050400@verizon.net>
References: <509DB460.7080309@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20121115194046.GA27540@SDF.ORG>
 <42F61A35-202B-4411-90AC-7521361EDAB9@exit2shell.com>
 <CAENxBwzETPab96OJbQz6cjxEuoGHst9FQBQjRKtBW3rQAiYEfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <50A550A6.2070004@ceetonetechnology.com> <50A555E9.9050400@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <50A5C0CD.7060409@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 11/15/12 15:51, Ah Pook wrote:
> Any recommendations for cheapo little touchscreens?  Maybe up to 4x6?  I
> know nothing, but these little boards are making me want to do crazy
> things.  :-D

There a bunch around, and look very cool when a bunch of "capes" (aka 
shields) are connected into some steam-punk-esque contraption with an 
LCD, run on 4 x AA batteries.

g



From nycbug at wynn.com  Sat Nov 17 13:33:19 2012
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:33:19 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] beaglebone first impression
In-Reply-To: <507CA412.6010600@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <507CA412.6010600@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20121117133319.296e72fd@ivory.wynn.com>

Greeting-

Picked up my bone from George last night.  Hooked it up to power via
the usb port of my Mac and took a fast tour around the installed Linux
on the 4GB card.  All in all very nice!  I am going to preserve the
linux card and pick up an 8 GB or bigger card for the bone as my
FreeBSD disk.  I can see several tasks that bones will be  doing once I
am happy with the FreeBSD install.  

I think the first thing this one will do is serve as a DNS server.  

Some of my ideas:

1.  ntp server
2.  dns server
3.  file server (just attach usb disk)
4.  tor node
5.  jabber server
6.  dhcp server
7.  weather station (have to muck with the analog inputs and some
                      sensors)
8.  Load balancer - Pound does no disk writes, only reads
9.  vpn server


I may replace some of my old 486 and pentium II boxes with these
things. 


-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Nov 24 09:57:41 2012
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 09:57:41 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] 55 Water fire
Message-ID: <50B0E065.3060607@ceetonetechnology.com>

Just doesn't end, does it?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/23/20-treated-for-smoke-inhalation-after-fire-in-financial-district-building/

I've heard some buildings below Wall St won't have power or heat for months.

One office on Wall I know had its UPS literally smoking a few days after
power was back on.

g


From matt at atopia.net  Sat Nov 24 19:01:47 2012
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 00:01:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD (and Linux) Support Contracts
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1211242351370.42356@endeavour.bitlancer.net>

Hi folks,

We have a few clients we do either:

   * FreeBSD Systems Administration
   * Linux Systems Administration
   * Database Support/Services

... through our LLC.

Many of our clients have requested support contracts lately (as in, a flat 
monthly fee for a certain level of offering and retainer).

In the past, I've just done an hourly minimum per month to cover the 
retainer portion (minimum: 10 hours per month), but many of my clients 
aren't liking this option.  They'd prefer a flat monthly fee and a few 
different levels of support.

I'm trying to price out some contracts.  I know I have some add-ons I'd 
like to include (such as monthly reports on infrastructure, 
recommendations, etc.) that make the support contract more worth-while 
than just hourly consulting.  However, some clients want 9 - 5 support, 
while others want 24x7, and others want quick turn-around, while others 
don't mind waiting a day or two.  And the hardest part for me is 
limitations... do I keep it at a maximum hours per month, or do I limit it 
to a certain amount of issues (as in maxiumum 10 issues per month, each 
issue taking no more than X hours).

Being a small business with limited resources, I can't really offer "24x7 
support, unlimited issues" for a flat monthly fee... at least I don't 
think I could.  I may be able to price that out but it wouldn't be 
competitive.

What are other small businesses doing?  I know many of you own consulting 
shops.  I'd be curious to know what's working for others.

Best,

Matt


From ericshane at eradman.com  Tue Nov 27 22:27:23 2012
From: ericshane at eradman.com (Eric Radman)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:27:23 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD (and Linux) Support Contracts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1211242351370.42356@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1211242351370.42356@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
Message-ID: <20121128032723.GA21278@SDF.ORG>

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:01:47AM +0000, Matt Juszczak wrote:
> Many of our clients have requested support contracts lately (as in,
> a flat monthly fee for a certain level of offering and retainer).
> 
> In the past, I've just done an hourly minimum per month to cover the
> retainer portion (minimum: 10 hours per month), but many of my
> clients aren't liking this option.  They'd prefer a flat monthly fee
> and a few different levels of support.

While larger corporations tend to offer flat support contracts, I think
charging strait up time and materials is the only approach that does not
put you at odds with the customer. Your clients needs to know what's
happening, and charging by the hour gives you much needed leverage in
keeping them involved in what's happening on a daily and weekly basis.

Do you know why they're asking for a flat monthly fee? I'm not in a
position to make specific recommendations, but my intuition is that
they're asking for this because of some other discomfort that they're
not communicating...

> I'm trying to price out some contracts.  I know I have some add-ons
> I'd like to include (such as monthly reports on infrastructure,
> recommendations, etc.) that make the support contract more
> worth-while than just hourly consulting.  However, some clients want
> 9 - 5 support, while others want 24x7, and others want quick
> turn-around, while others don't mind waiting a day or two.

Are you servicing multiple timezones? This could be tricky, unless your
team is also distributed. I worked for 7 years at a small shop, I'd say
that true 24x7 support generally isn't necessary if you can keep the
lines of communication open. At this point it's more about fit between
what you and potential clients.

> What are other small businesses doing?  I know many of you own
> consulting shops.  I'd be curious to know what's working for others.

These are not easy things to solve, so I'm likewise interested in what
others might have to say.

-- 
Eric Radman  |  http://eradman.com


From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Nov 30 13:10:25 2012
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:10:25 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Paul Vixie - Silo Busting in Information Security:
 The ISC SIE Approach
Message-ID: <20121130131025.400100b6@ivory.wynn.com>

Greeting-

I am watching this talk on youtube right now.  You might find it useful
and interesting.  The video is about an hour. I find it interesting, but
then I love this type of thing.

Paul Vixie - Silo Busting in Information Security: The ISC SIE Approach 

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435