[nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding

[George Rosamond]

Isaac (.ike) Levy:
> 
> On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
>>
>>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>>
>>> Please read the whole thread.
>>>
>>
>> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>>
>> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at
>> most
>> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious
>> developers'
>> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>>  No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>>
>> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other
>> suggestions
>> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority
>> justifications and
>> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>>
>> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We
>>> really
>>> do need the funding.
>>>
>>
>> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
>> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find
>> money
>> is more forthcoming then.
>>
>> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>>
>>
>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>>
>> Everything helps.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
>> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
>> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3
>> would
>> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
>> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely
>> to be
>> profitable.
>>
>>         - Dan C.
> 
> Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were
> truly a community run effort.
> 
> Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is
> unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been
> on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I
> remember.
> 
> OpenBSD is not run by the users.
> 
> We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our
> decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago,
> some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and
> critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I changed
> my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent that *no*
> project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
> So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which
> architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues
> are just not a "user community" decision.
> 
> I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's what
> we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what we're
> doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want with our
> work"
> 
> And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for
> *every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the
> *BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need
> to change much in the project itself :)
> 
> -- 
> With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a contribution
> today.
> 

So glad this didn't turn into an online slugfest...

I'm confused by the post though, Dan.  Most open source devs were not
trained in marketing, publicity, whatever.

But I disagree with Ike... it is very typical of community-run efforts.
 They are not driven by share prices and "packaging."

To expect them to have a fully polished operation, which asks money for
the same reasons, essentially, in a different way, is a bit naive.

If you want to "give" money to operations directly or indirectly which
ask nicely and do, er, messed up things with it, as opposed to giving
money to people who ask for it in more crude ways but do things you
like, then I think you may be confusing form and substance.

And long live substance, IMO.

g