[nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding

Mon Jan 20 21:37:15 EST 2014

On 1/20/2014 9:32 PM, Raúl Cuza wrote:
> Sent without help from A.I. | ' L ' |
>
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 15:28, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com
> <mailto:george at ceetonetechnology.com>> wrote:
>
>> Isaac (.ike) Levy:
>>>
>>> On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:crossd at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
>>>> <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>>>>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>>>>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>>>>
>>>>> Please read the whole thread.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>>>>
>>>> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at
>>>> most
>>>> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious
>>>> developers'
>>>> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>>>> No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>>>>
>>>> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other
>>>> suggestions
>>>> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority
>>>> justifications and
>>>> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>>>>
>>>> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>>>>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We
>>>>> really
>>>>> do need the funding.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
>>>> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find
>>>> money
>>>> is more forthcoming then.
>>>>
>>>> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>>>>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>>>>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>>>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>>>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities
>>>> that
>>>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them
>>>> forward.  Or
>>>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>>>>
>>>> Everything helps.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
>>>> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
>>>> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3
>>>> would
>>>> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
>>>> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely
>>>> to be
>>>> profitable.
>>>>
>>>>        - Dan C.
>>>
>>> Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were
>>> truly a community run effort.
>>>
>>> Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is
>>> unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been
>>> on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I
>>> remember.
>>>
>>> OpenBSD is not run by the users.
>>>
>>> We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our
>>> decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago,
>>> some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and
>>> critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I changed
>>> my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent that *no*
>>> project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
>>> So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which
>>> architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues
>>> are just not a "user community" decision.
>>>
>>> I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's what
>>> we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what we're
>>> doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want with our
>>> work"
>>>
>>> And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for
>>> *every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the
>>> *BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need
>>> to change much in the project itself :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a contribution
>>> today.
>>>
>>
>> So glad this didn't turn into an online slugfest...
>>
>> I'm confused by the post though, Dan.  Most open source devs were not
>> trained in marketing, publicity, whatever.
>>
>> But I disagree with Ike... it is very typical of community-run efforts.
>> They are not driven by share prices and "packaging."
>>
>> To expect them to have a fully polished operation, which asks money for
>> the same reasons, essentially, in a different way, is a bit naive.
>>
>> If you want to "give" money to operations directly or indirectly which
>> ask nicely and do, er, messed up things with it, as opposed to giving
>> money to people who ask for it in more crude ways but do things you
>> like, then I think you may be confusing form and substance.
>>
>> And long live substance, IMO.
>>
>> g
>> _______________________________________________
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>> talk at lists.nycbug.org <mailto:talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> It looks like someone saved the day.
>
> http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/19/romanian-billionaire-saves-openbsd/ (I
> did not check the veracity of this page.)
>

You should read this instead:
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=139024400731106&w=2

~Brian