From george at ceetonetechnology.com Tue Oct 3 10:46:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 14:46:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] NYC*BUG Wednesday: *BSD Tor Bridge Installfest Message-ID: <016ac7aa-69d3-1eb2-e14a-83c43efcb9df@ceetonetechnology.com> October 4, Wednesday *BSD Tor Bridge Installfest, The Tor BSD Diversity Project 18:45, LMHQ, 150 Broadway, 20th Floor, Manhattan Tor is a public and open-source anonymity network, playing a critical role for users facing censorship and surveillance around the globe. There is one glaring weakness about the Tor network: an overwhelming dominance of Linux-based nodes. Since March 2015, The Tor BSD Diversity Project has worked to rectify this operating system monoculture. TDP managed a number of feats, including porting Tor Browser to OpenBSD. For this hands-on installfest, the goal is to start addressing the massive monoculture in Tor bridges, which serve as private gateways for users blocked from the Tor network. That monoculture is stark as the TDP statistics illustrate. Bridge operating system diversity is even worse than for public relays. Bridges are ideal services to run from a residential network. Many BSD users in New York City maintain fast, underutilized internet connections that can easily help increase diversity. As Tor bridge IPs are not publicly listed, there is little worry about geting any flack from internet service providers. Popular small embedded systems, from armv7 BeagleBones to amd64 APU boards, are ideal hardware platforms for a residential bridge. Each of the BSD projects provide strong support for an array of small systems. This meeting will feature a brief introduction to TDP, a quick overview of some diversity statistics, followed by hands-on configuration of hardware on-hand. To make this installfest worthwhile, come prepared with: * appropriate hardware to install the BSD of your choice on, with appropriate cables and install media * an IP address reserved on your private residential network for the Tor bridge Adequate power and bandwidth will be available, along with other NYC*BUG attendees ready and willing to assist. The Tor BSD Diversity Project launched in March 2015 to inject more *BSD into the Tor public anonymity network. Since then, TDP accomplished a number of important milestones, including porting Tor Browser to OpenBSD with a current effort to port TB to FreeBSD. From george at ceetonetechnology.com Wed Oct 4 10:00:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 14:00:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] VGA HDMI adapter Message-ID: For tonight's meeting, I have a quick video issue... I have VGA out on my laptop, but need to connect to HDMI. Anyone have an adapter? g From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 5 11:40:41 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 11:40:41 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? Message-ID: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hey All, Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism ? I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of the laptop design. I'm still way overdue for a laptop refresh, and have just been unable to bite the bullet on a new Dell or Lenovo- (long list of hardware drawbacks for me). These laptops seem incredibly straightforward, and some features are a bit wild, (radio/camera hardware kill switches), but otherwise they just look like a *sane* modern laptop?! All their stuff on the site about being the 'good guys' feels weird, but whatever- I guess it's better marketing message than most. -- Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? graphics not sucking? etc... Thoughts? Best, .ike From bcully at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 13:05:26 2017 From: bcully at gmail.com (Brian Cully) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 13:05:26 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> > On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > Hey All, > > Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism > ? > > I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of > the laptop design. And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. > Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? > graphics not sucking? etc... My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. -bjc From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 5 14:11:41 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 14:11:41 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: > > > On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > > > Hey All, > > > > Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism > > ? > > > > I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of > > the laptop design. > > And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. > > > Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? > > graphics not sucking? etc... > > My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. > > One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. > > Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. > > -bjc This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD last summer: https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/freebsd-librem-update/ Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy I'd love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware before I bought one... Rocket- .ike From spork at bway.net Thu Oct 5 14:25:44 2017 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 14:25:44 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> > On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: >> >>> On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >>> >>> Hey All, >>> >>> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism >>> ? >>> >>> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of >>> the laptop design. >> >> And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. >> >>> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? >>> graphics not sucking? etc... >> >> My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. >> >> One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. >> >> Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. >> >> -bjc > > This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD last > summer: > > https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/freebsd-librem-update/ > > Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy I'd > love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware > before I bought one? There seems to be lots of controversy about the claims this company has made. Are the points in this older article now moot or not? https://www.pcworld.com/article/2960524/laptop-computers/why-linux-enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed And having to go back to 2008 for true Stallman-approved FreeDom: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2879086/the-free-software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html There is a rant out there somewhere that I read recently that without ditching proprietary BIOS/UEFI/blobs, this laptop is no more secure than anything else on the market. Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) Charles > > Rocket- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 5 14:42:27 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 14:42:27 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> Message-ID: <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Word, On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 02:25 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > > > On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: > >> > >>> On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey All, > >>> > >>> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism > >>> ? > >>> > >>> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of > >>> the laptop design. > >> > >> And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. > >> > >>> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? > >>> graphics not sucking? etc... > >> > >> My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. > >> > >> One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. > >> > >> Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. > >> > >> -bjc > > > > This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD last > > summer: > > > > https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/freebsd-librem-update/ > > > > Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy I'd > > love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware > > before I bought one? > > There seems to be lots of controversy about the claims this company has > made. > > Are the points in this older article now moot or not? > > https://www.pcworld.com/article/2960524/laptop-computers/why-linux-enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed > > > And having to go back to 2008 for true Stallman-approved FreeDom: > > https://www.pcworld.com/article/2879086/the-free-software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html > Fascinating. For me, not sure I care about FSF stamp of approval, (the *BSD's don't have that, so...) The other bits about proprietary components, well, reality strikes. I think these older claims about 100% open hardware are indeed not quite possible right now. Yet, compared to what I've been looking at lately, this gear seems *way* saner - and I'm just excited that their Linux distro is all about no-binary-blobs. Very encouraging for solid *BSD support! Will I ever "100% trust" my hardware? Never have. Unless I make it all from scratch, (mine the ore for the copper), no. > > There is a rant out there somewhere that I read recently that without > ditching proprietary BIOS/UEFI/blobs, this laptop is no more secure than > anything else on the market. > > Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) I'll assume you are kidding :P http://www.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=view&id=10356 Since that talk, I've happily switched from OpenBSD to FreeBSD for my primary personal rig- and *love it*. Why I don't want a MBP (was given a shiny new one at work): - I no longer want anything to do with Mac OS. - USBc, *nothing but USBc*. That blows for so many reasons. - USBc - requires data exchange just to *charge the rig* - Bag full of adapters and peripherals. - Apple USBc mixed up wth thunderbolt, and bang DMA!!! What could go wrong! - Simply not interested in running anything but OSX on this hardware. Other Lenovo/Dell-XPS models I've been angling for: - USBc charging - Lots more proprietary hardware - More dependence on bluetooth and gimmiky crapola - Most of them: HDD/RAM soldered down, Particularly the HDD, that bugs me! So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems almost too good to be true- *for me* :) Best, .ike > > Charles > > > > > Rocket- > > .ike > > > > _______________________________________________ > > talk mailing list > > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 5 20:05:28 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 20:05:28 -0400 Subject: [talk] dmesg writes, usb stick booting Message-ID: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi All, I'm interested in doing some laptop hardware evaluations. I remember some years ago, somebody had made a cool multi-bsd bootable image, which had a writable partition which mounted under each BSD on it? (Was this Dru Lavigne if I remember correctly?) Did anyone keep that up? (I somehow remember it being a script which allowed a user to specify the disk image for each OS being loaded, so it was easier to keep up with OS updates.) -- Anyhow, if nobody remembers that gem - I'm totally looking for any easy instructions on making *BSD from USB media, with a writable partition (to simply get dmesg output). FreeBSD/OpenBSD are my particular targets, but any general instructions would be most appreciated. Thanks! Best, .ike From george at ceetonetechnology.com Thu Oct 5 20:27:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 00:27:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] dmesg writes, usb stick booting In-Reply-To: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <9d662985-7bc9-d81e-c478-53062ece6d2f@ceetonetechnology.com> Isaac (.ike) Levy: > Hi All, > > I'm interested in doing some laptop hardware evaluations. > > I remember some years ago, somebody had made a cool multi-bsd bootable > image, which had a writable partition which mounted under each BSD on > it? (Was this Dru Lavigne if I remember correctly?) > BSD Certification Group... it was Jim Brown who has done these. > Did anyone keep that up? (I somehow remember it being a script which > allowed a user to specify the disk image for each OS being loaded, so it > was easier to keep up with OS updates.) Jim is on list (I think)... so he can reply, but I think the build script is out there. It's QEMU based IIRC. > > -- > Anyhow, if nobody remembers that gem - I'm totally looking for any easy > instructions on making *BSD from USB media, with a writable partition > (to simply get dmesg output). FreeBSD/OpenBSD are my particular > targets, but any general instructions would be most appreciated. Can you clarify? So you want all the BSDs to boot off usb, and then to have a writeable slice for dumping the dmesg? And dmesgd is a great destination for those dmesgs! I can now see hundreds of BSD people around the globe wandering big-box computer stores booting off USB sticks before security arrives... g From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 5 21:05:59 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2017 21:05:59 -0400 Subject: [talk] dmesg writes, usb stick booting In-Reply-To: <9d662985-7bc9-d81e-c478-53062ece6d2f@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> <9d662985-7bc9-d81e-c478-53062ece6d2f@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: <1507251959.1531170.1129566504.0BD2441E@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 08:27 PM, George Rosamond wrote: > Isaac (.ike) Levy: > > Hi All, > > > > I'm interested in doing some laptop hardware evaluations. > > > > I remember some years ago, somebody had made a cool multi-bsd bootable > > image, which had a writable partition which mounted under each BSD on > > it? (Was this Dru Lavigne if I remember correctly?) > > > > BSD Certification Group... it was Jim Brown who has done these. > > > Did anyone keep that up? (I somehow remember it being a script which > > allowed a user to specify the disk image for each OS being loaded, so it > > was easier to keep up with OS updates.) > > Jim is on list (I think)... so he can reply, but I think the build > script is out there. It's QEMU based IIRC. Ahh- I remember that too- the training disk. I'm talking about something different- actually booting the OS to get clean dmesg(8) output. The thing I'm speaking of was made specifically for laptop shopping :) > > > > > -- > > Anyhow, if nobody remembers that gem - I'm totally looking for any easy > > instructions on making *BSD from USB media, with a writable partition > > (to simply get dmesg output). FreeBSD/OpenBSD are my particular > > targets, but any general instructions would be most appreciated. > > Can you clarify? > > So you want all the BSDs to boot off usb, and then to have a writeable > slice for dumping the dmesg? Yes- but I'm looking for the lazy man's instructions. FreeBSD handbook kind of 1-2-3 instructions. The kind of thing I can even ask someone else to do, with minimal fuss. > > And dmesgd is a great destination for those dmesgs! Naturally :) > > I can now see hundreds of BSD people around the globe wandering big-box > computer stores booting off USB sticks before security arrives... Wait, I've been doing that for years- (but just reading them not keeping them). Best, .ike > > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From pete at nomadlogic.org Fri Oct 6 12:44:03 2017 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:44:03 -0700 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On 10/05/2017 11:42, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > Word, > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 02:25 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >>> On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: >>>>> On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey All, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of >>>>> the laptop design. >>>> And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. >>>> >>>>> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? >>>>> graphics not sucking? etc... >>>> My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. >>>> >>>> One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. >>>> >>>> -bjc >>> This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD last >>> summer: >>> >>> https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/freebsd-librem-update/ >>> >>> Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy I'd >>> love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware >>> before I bought one? >> There seems to be lots of controversy about the claims this company has >> made. >> >> Are the points in this older article now moot or not? >> >> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2960524/laptop-computers/why-linux-enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html >> >> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed >> >> >> And having to go back to 2008 for true Stallman-approved FreeDom: >> >> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2879086/the-free-software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html >> > Fascinating. For me, not sure I care about FSF stamp of approval, (the > *BSD's don't have that, so...) > > The other bits about proprietary components, well, reality strikes. > I think these older claims about 100% open hardware are indeed not quite > possible right now. Yet, compared to what I've been looking at lately, > this gear seems *way* saner - and I'm just excited that their Linux > distro is all about no-binary-blobs. Very encouraging for solid *BSD > support! > > Will I ever "100% trust" my hardware? Never have. Unless I make it all > from scratch, (mine the ore for the copper), no. > >> There is a rant out there somewhere that I read recently that without >> ditching proprietary BIOS/UEFI/blobs, this laptop is no more secure than >> anything else on the market. >> >> Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) > I'll assume you are kidding :P > http://www.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=view&id=10356 > Since that talk, I've happily switched from OpenBSD to FreeBSD for my > primary personal rig- and *love it*. > > Why I don't want a MBP (was given a shiny new one at work): > - I no longer want anything to do with Mac OS. > - USBc, *nothing but USBc*. That blows for so many reasons. > - USBc - requires data exchange just to *charge the rig* > - Bag full of adapters and peripherals. > - Apple USBc mixed up wth thunderbolt, and bang DMA!!! What could go > wrong! > - Simply not interested in running anything but OSX on this hardware. > > Other Lenovo/Dell-XPS models I've been angling for: > - USBc charging > - Lots more proprietary hardware > - More dependence on bluetooth and gimmiky crapola > - Most of them: HDD/RAM soldered down, Particularly the HDD, that bugs > me! > > So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems > almost too good to be true- *for me* :) i'm in the same boat as you .ike in regards to MBP and macOS in general.? i got myself a System76 latptop a couple months ago and i'm actually really happy with it.? the design of the laptop shell isn't super sexy tbh - but it does have a matte LCD screen which i'm really happy about since i work outside frequently. i've been doing my hacking of the updated drm-next code on this guy as well - so gfx have been pretty great if you don't mind running current on freebsd.? my understanding is that openbsd also has support for the i915 gfx as well, but i'm not %100 sure it's fully accelerated - but i suspect stability would be much better! :) http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3207 this is a bit out of date but should give you an idea as to the hw specs. -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From pete at nomadlogic.org Fri Oct 6 12:49:37 2017 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 09:49:37 -0700 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On 10/06/2017 09:44, Pete Wright wrote: > >> So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems >> almost too good to be true- *for me* :) > > i'm in the same boat as you .ike in regards to MBP and macOS in > general.? i got myself a System76 latptop a couple months ago and i'm > actually really happy with it.? the design of the laptop shell isn't > super sexy tbh - but it does have a matte LCD screen which i'm really > happy about since i work outside frequently. > > i've been doing my hacking of the updated drm-next code on this guy as > well - so gfx have been pretty great if you don't mind running current > on freebsd.? my understanding is that openbsd also has support for the > i915 gfx as well, but i'm not %100 sure it's fully accelerated - but i > suspect stability would be much better! :) > > http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3207 > > this is a bit out of date but should give you an idea as to the hw specs. > should have just updated dmesgd before posting - this is the current status of this HW: http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3348 this is using stock freebsd 12-CURRENT + an incoming patch for my iwm wifi nic.? gfx are now powered by the official "drm-next-kmod" pkg which is sweet. -p -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From ike at blackskyresearch.net Fri Oct 6 19:31:59 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:31:59 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> sent from my mobile > On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > > > >> On 10/06/2017 09:44, Pete Wright wrote: >> >>> So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems >>> almost too good to be true- *for me* :) >> >> i'm in the same boat as you .ike in regards to MBP and macOS in general. i got myself a System76 latptop a couple months ago and i'm actually really happy with it. the design of the laptop shell isn't super sexy tbh - but it does have a matte LCD screen which i'm really happy about since i work outside frequently. >> >> i've been doing my hacking of the updated drm-next code on this guy as well - so gfx have been pretty great if you don't mind running current on freebsd. my understanding is that openbsd also has support for the i915 gfx as well, but i'm not %100 sure it's fully accelerated - but i suspect stability would be much better! :) >> >> http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3207 >> >> this is a bit out of date but should give you an idea as to the hw specs. >> > > should have just updated dmesgd before posting - this is the current status of this HW: > http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3348 > > this is using stock freebsd 12-CURRENT + an incoming patch for my iwm wifi nic. gfx are now powered by the official "drm-next-kmod" pkg which is sweet. > > -p Unmmmmm, holy cow Pete- rgephy0 is a gigabit Ethernet port?! On a laptop?! That's like a dream come true... Guess I'll be pouring through the System76 site next :) Rocket- .ike > > -- > Pete Wright > pete at nomadlogic.org > @nomadlogicLA > From pete at nomadlogic.org Fri Oct 6 20:25:07 2017 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 17:25:07 -0700 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> Message-ID: <0672bf4c-4abd-e754-34c0-61ee1239a64a@nomadlogic.org> On 10/06/2017 16:31, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > > sent from my mobile >> On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Pete Wright wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 10/06/2017 09:44, Pete Wright wrote: >>> >>>> So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems >>>> almost too good to be true- *for me* :) >>> i'm in the same boat as you .ike in regards to MBP and macOS in general. i got myself a System76 latptop a couple months ago and i'm actually really happy with it. the design of the laptop shell isn't super sexy tbh - but it does have a matte LCD screen which i'm really happy about since i work outside frequently. >>> >>> i've been doing my hacking of the updated drm-next code on this guy as well - so gfx have been pretty great if you don't mind running current on freebsd. my understanding is that openbsd also has support for the i915 gfx as well, but i'm not %100 sure it's fully accelerated - but i suspect stability would be much better! :) >>> >>> http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3207 >>> >>> this is a bit out of date but should give you an idea as to the hw specs. >>> >> should have just updated dmesgd before posting - this is the current status of this HW: >> http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3348 >> >> this is using stock freebsd 12-CURRENT + an incoming patch for my iwm wifi nic. gfx are now powered by the official "drm-next-kmod" pkg which is sweet. >> >> -p > Unmmmmm, holy cow Pete- rgephy0 is a gigabit Ethernet port?! On a laptop?! That's like a dream come true... > > Guess I'll be pouring through the System76 site next :) i'm not saying they are the best ever - but i'm happy enough with this guy :) also the iwm driver is pretty solid and fast using some pending patches to enable it. -p -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From sjt.kar at gmail.com Sat Oct 7 10:44:34 2017 From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit K M) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 20:14:34 +0530 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > Hey All, > > Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism > ? > > I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of > the laptop design. > > I'm still way overdue for a laptop refresh, and have just been unable to > bite the bullet on a new Dell or Lenovo- (long list of hardware > drawbacks for me). > > These laptops seem incredibly straightforward, and some features are a > bit wild, (radio/camera hardware kill switches), but otherwise they just > look like a *sane* modern laptop?! All their stuff on the site about > being the 'good guys' feels weird, but whatever- I guess it's better > marketing message than most. > > -- > Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? > graphics not sucking? etc... Looks like they package it with PureOS, You would still have trouble using BSD. From jpb at jimby.name Sat Oct 7 16:51:16 2017 From: jpb at jimby.name (Jim B.) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 16:51:16 -0400 Subject: [talk] dmesg writes, usb stick booting In-Reply-To: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507248328.1513614.1129520384.2D6B0A13@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20171007205116.GA88224@jimby.name> * Isaac (.ike) Levy [2017-10-05 20:05]: > Hi All, > > I'm interested in doing some laptop hardware evaluations. > > I remember some years ago, somebody had made a cool multi-bsd bootable > image, which had a writable partition which mounted under each BSD on > it? (Was this Dru Lavigne if I remember correctly?) > > Did anyone keep that up? (I somehow remember it being a script which > allowed a user to specify the disk image for each OS being loaded, so it > was easier to keep up with OS updates.) > > -- > Anyhow, if nobody remembers that gem - I'm totally looking for any easy > instructions on making *BSD from USB media, with a writable partition > (to simply get dmesg output). FreeBSD/OpenBSD are my particular > targets, but any general instructions would be most appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Best, > .ike For USB booting, you can download a TrueOS .img and write it directly to a raw USB device. The current stable repo is at: http://download.trueos.org/master/amd64/ and includes md5 and sha256 sums. It's not multi-BSD, but it will allow you to boot to the install program, where you can open a terminal window and run dmesg. That might get you close to what you want. In fact, if you install TrueOS as the "PersonaCrypt" version, you end up with a bootable USB that boots directly into a usable system, and (best part) leaves no traces behind when you are done. That's probably the closest to your original ask. The BSDCG study DVDs were on optical media with an EL Torito boot loader. A script on the .iso boot block allowed you do boot any of the four DVDs. Creating those DVDs is outlined (at a high level) here: http://bsdcg.blogspot.com/2016/09/creating-bsdcg-study-dvd.html A third option is to modify the OpenBSD installation script and add code to run dmesg (or do something else). I outlined how I did that for a disk wiping setup using OpenBSD and TFTP. See: http://jimby.name:81/obsd/obsd_wiper.pdf for details on the scripts and how to rebuild the OpenBSD image. That use case is for disk wiping not for dmesg, but you might be able to use the techniques there. Just before emailing this note I found these via the Big G: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html http://liveusb-openbsd.sourceforge.net/ Layered on top of all this is the fact that most of the time, you still have to modify the BIOS boot order to boot from USB. It may or may not be bootable before the hard disk. Best, Jim B. From bcallah at devio.us Fri Oct 13 11:33:45 2017 From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 11:33:45 -0400 Subject: [talk] NYC*BUG December meeting: OpenBSD porting workshop? Message-ID: Hi everyone -- A couple years back, I ran an OpenBSD porting workshop as a NYC*BUG meeting. I'd like to run another workshop. It looks like it would be December 6. All you'd need is yourself and a laptop with OpenBSD -current (from when we get close to the workshop). Maybe I'll set up a virtualbox image with stuff already set up for people who prefer to go that route and if there's a clamoring for that. You can either come with software you want to port, or I'll have some pieces of software that I think would make good first porting attempts. You can also take on and update your favorite unmaintained port. For a long list of unmaintained ports that could use updating, see: http://portroach.openbsd.org/the%20openbsd%20ports%20mailing-list%20%3Cports at openbsd.org%3E.html I'd also like to tailor the workshop to what people want. So if there's something about ports you want to learn, let me know that too. Is this something people would want to attend and do? ~Brian From okan at demirmen.com Sat Oct 14 14:01:35 2017 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:01:35 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > > > sent from my mobile > > On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 10/06/2017 09:44, Pete Wright wrote: > >> > >>> So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems > >>> almost too good to be true- *for me* :) > >> > >> i'm in the same boat as you .ike in regards to MBP and macOS in > general. i got myself a System76 latptop a couple months ago and i'm > actually really happy with it. the design of the laptop shell isn't super > sexy tbh - but it does have a matte LCD screen which i'm really happy about > since i work outside frequently. > >> > >> i've been doing my hacking of the updated drm-next code on this guy as > well - so gfx have been pretty great if you don't mind running current on > freebsd. my understanding is that openbsd also has support for the i915 > gfx as well, but i'm not %100 sure it's fully accelerated - but i suspect > stability would be much better! :) > >> > >> http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3207 > >> > >> this is a bit out of date but should give you an idea as to the hw > specs. > >> > > > > should have just updated dmesgd before posting - this is the current > status of this HW: > > http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=3348 > > > > this is using stock freebsd 12-CURRENT + an incoming patch for my iwm > wifi nic. gfx are now powered by the official "drm-next-kmod" pkg which is > sweet. > > > > -p > > Unmmmmm, holy cow Pete- rgephy0 is a gigabit Ethernet port?! On a > laptop?! That's like a dream come true... > > ?How is a gigabit Ethernet port a dream yet to come true for you on a laptop? I haven't had anything but gig ports on laptops for quite some time now... ? > Guess I'll be pouring through the System76 site next :) > > ?Yeah, interesting for sure... ? > Rocket- > .ike > > > > > > -- > > Pete Wright > > pete at nomadlogic.org > > @nomadlogicLA > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okan at demirmen.com Sat Oct 14 14:09:09 2017 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:09:09 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > Word, > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 02:25 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > > > > > On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy < > ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: > > >> > > >>> On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hey All, > > >>> > > >>> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism > > >>> ? > > >>> > > >>> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every > aspect of > > >>> the laptop design. > > >> > > >> And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be > eyeing one of these seriously. > > >> > > >>> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? > > >>> graphics not sucking? etc... > > >> > > >> My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been > particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on > Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was > super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my > understanding is that the support there is a lot better. > > >> > > >> One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the > touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. > > >> > > >> Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye > on this. > > >> > > >> -bjc > > > > > > This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD > last > > > summer: > > > > > > https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/ > freebsd-librem-update/ > > > > > > Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy > I'd > > > love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware > > > before I bought one? > > > > There seems to be lots of controversy about the claims this company has > > made. > > > > Are the points in this older article now moot or not? > > > > https://www.pcworld.com/article/2960524/laptop-computers/why-linux- > enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html > > enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html> > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism- > Librem-Still-Blobbed > > Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed> > > > > And having to go back to 2008 for true Stallman-approved FreeDom: > > > > https://www.pcworld.com/article/2879086/the-free- > software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html > > software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html> > > Fascinating. For me, not sure I care about FSF stamp of approval, (the > *BSD's don't have that, so...) > > The other bits about proprietary components, well, reality strikes. > I think these older claims about 100% open hardware are indeed not quite > possible right now. Yet, compared to what I've been looking at lately, > this gear seems *way* saner - and I'm just excited that their Linux > distro is all about no-binary-blobs. Very encouraging for solid *BSD > support! > > Will I ever "100% trust" my hardware? Never have. Unless I make it all > from scratch, (mine the ore for the copper), no. > > > > > There is a rant out there somewhere that I read recently that without > > ditching proprietary BIOS/UEFI/blobs, this laptop is no more secure than > > anything else on the market. > > > > Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) > > I'll assume you are kidding :P > http://www.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=view&id=10356 > Since that talk, I've happily switched from OpenBSD to FreeBSD for my > primary personal rig- and *love it*. > > Why I don't want a MBP (was given a shiny new one at work): > - I no longer want anything to do with Mac OS. > - USBc, *nothing but USBc*. That blows for so many reasons. > - USBc - requires data exchange just to *charge the rig* > - Bag full of adapters and peripherals. > - Apple USBc mixed up wth thunderbolt, and bang DMA!!! What could go > wrong! > - Simply not interested in running anything but OSX on this hardware. > > Other Lenovo/Dell-XPS models I've been angling for: > - USBc charging > - Lots more proprietary hardware > - More dependence on bluetooth and gimmiky crapola > - Most of them: HDD/RAM soldered down, Particularly the HDD, that bugs > me! > > So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems > almost too good to be true- *for me* :) > ?So a couple of observations - these are all intel which should be widely supported in the *BSD's, from graphics to what-not; maybe not the latest acceleration released like 2 minutes ago, but close.? I do primarily follow one BSD, and at least hot new graphics to suspend/sleep/resume work with minimal regression, if any, once in-play for a few weeks. I curious what proprietary crap you all are running into. The main issue tends to revolve around wireless chipsets. Granted, I've yet to run into the annoyances of usbc and soldered down disks. But really, this is all commodity hardware and it's that how we use our portable devices today anyway? Random thoughts is all :) Yeah, I do like the look at least of these 2 vendors... Best, > .ike > > > > > > Charles > > > > > > > > Rocket- > > > .ike > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > talk mailing list > > > talk at lists.nycbug.org > > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sun Oct 15 13:33:40 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 13:33:40 -0400 Subject: [talk] How to ban x11 from ports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, im having a hard time building git without gtk, which brings in all kinds of xorg dependencies. Its not building, chokes on various packages, most of then are x11 related. My system is totally headless I never boot into X. Though it was once on my system. Does anyone know how to completely ban Xorg related packages from ports. I tried this $ cat /etc/make.conf WITHOUT_X11=yes With no success. ~fire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sun Oct 15 13:50:24 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 13:50:24 -0400 Subject: [talk] How to ban x11 from ports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update: I was able to install git, after updating perl to 5.24.3, git still installed gtk and a bunch of Xorg and ui deps which makes me sad but is no longer blocking my development. ~fire On Oct 15, 2017 1:33 PM, "fire crow" wrote: > Hi, im having a hard time building git without gtk, which brings in all > kinds of xorg dependencies. > > Its not building, chokes on various packages, most of then are x11 related. > > My system is totally headless I never boot into X. Though it was once on > my system. > > Does anyone know how to completely ban Xorg related packages from ports. > > I tried this > $ cat /etc/make.conf > WITHOUT_X11=yes > > With no success. > > ~fire > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raulcuza at gmail.com Sun Oct 15 21:55:52 2017 From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 21:55:52 -0400 Subject: [talk] How to ban x11 from ports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 1:50 PM, fire crow wrote: > Update: > I was able to install git, after updating perl to 5.24.3, git still > installed gtk and a bunch of Xorg and ui deps which makes me sad but is no > longer blocking my development. > > ~fire > > On Oct 15, 2017 1:33 PM, "fire crow" wrote: >> >> Hi, im having a hard time building git without gtk, which brings in all >> kinds of xorg dependencies. >> >> Its not building, chokes on various packages, most of then are x11 >> related. >> >> My system is totally headless I never boot into X. Though it was once on >> my system. >> >> Does anyone know how to completely ban Xorg related packages from ports. >> >> I tried this >> $ cat /etc/make.conf >> WITHOUT_X11=yes >> >> With no success. >> >> ~fire > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk Hola fire, The git website only has Linux/OSX instructions, but the source install instructions there do not include GTK or other X11 requirements. They might be assumed because on another page it says git-gui and gitk are included (https://git-scm.com/downloads/guis). Does the Makefile have a way of not building these parts of git? Ra?l From fire at firecrow.com Sun Oct 15 22:44:14 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 22:44:14 -0400 Subject: [talk] How to ban x11 from ports In-Reply-To: <20171016022141.GR8257@safeword.mike-burns.com> References: <20171016022141.GR8257@safeword.mike-burns.com> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2017 10:21 PM, "Mike Burns" wrote: On 2017-10-15 21.55.52 -0400, Raul Cuza wrote: > > On Oct 15, 2017 1:33 PM, "fire crow" wrote: > >> Hi, im having a hard time building git without gtk, which brings in all > >> kinds of xorg dependencies. > >> > >> Does anyone know how to completely ban Xorg related packages from ports. > >> > >> I tried this > >> $ cat /etc/make.conf > >> WITHOUT_X11=yes > > The git website only has Linux/OSX instructions, but the source > install instructions there do not include GTK or other X11 > requirements. They might be assumed because on another page it says > git-gui and gitk are included (https://git-scm.com/downloads/guis). > Does the Makefile have a way of not building these parts of git? I assume they're talking about installing git from FreeBSD ports ("ports" because it's in the subject line, "FreeBSD" because of /etc/make.conf), not from source. I see a GUI=off configuration for the git port; does that help? -Mike Yes freebsd ports apologies for not specifying. I was able to successfully install git on a fresh system without gtk entering into the mix, when i failed before i had BATCH="YES" in /etc/make.conf and the only thing i can think of is that for some strange reason it set 'git-ui' automatically. Also that box had a lot of thrash in x11 dependencies so that may have accounted for it. In summary its resolved, not completely sure how but its working the way I want now. ~fire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raulcuza at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:37:49 2017 From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:37:49 -0400 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability Message-ID: While researching the WIFI vulnerability announced today [ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/10/severe-flaw-in-wpa2-protocol-leaves-wi-fi-traffic-open-to-eavesdropping/ ] I discovered a BSD related slant on the news. >From https://www.krackattacks.com/ [quote] Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end of an embargo. [/quote] Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, they will now be given the information later so they will not release patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? Ra?l From franco at opnsense.org Mon Oct 16 09:53:41 2017 From: franco at opnsense.org (Franco Fichtner) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:53:41 +0200 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E453FD5-E30E-43F8-852A-574C1721ACAC@opnsense.org> Hi, > On 16. Oct 2017, at 3:37 PM, Raul Cuza wrote: > > disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I > allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this But, err, it was released on August 30 which matches "end of August": https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/6.1/common/027_net80211_replay.patch.sig Agreed pre-CERT/CC disclosure deadline hardly sounds like a compromise to "allow" "silent" patching. Cheers, Franco From mj at mjturner.net Mon Oct 16 10:26:23 2017 From: mj at mjturner.net (Michael-John Turner) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:26:23 +0100 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20171016142623.xgk3a4ixkdvugcwn@saucer.turnde.net> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 09:37:49AM -0400, Raul Cuza wrote: >Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, >they will now be given the information later so they will not release >patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from >Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? Here's a bit more about this from Stefan Sperling: https://lobste.rs/s/dwzplh/krack_attacks_breaking_wpa2#c_gg2kzl Cheers, MJ -- Michael-John Turner * mj at mjturner.net * http://mjturner.net/ From slynch2112 at me.com Mon Oct 16 11:53:01 2017 From: slynch2112 at me.com (Siobhan Lynch) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:53:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [talk] =?utf-8?q?OpenBSD_Repremianded_for_Patching_Krack_Attacks?= =?utf-8?q?_Vunerability?= Message-ID: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> On Oct 16, 2017, at 09:37 AM, Raul Cuza wrote From https://www.krackattacks.com/ [quote] Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end of an embargo. [/quote] Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, they will now be given the information later so they will not release patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? Ra?l ------ LOL, yeah I noticed that as well.... its been a minute since I was neck-deep in the BSD community, but my reaction was "wow .... some things never change"? - it's nice to know Theo and the OpenBSD folx are pretty much exactly the same as they've always been. Some things will always remain constant.... OpenBSD's nature seems a constant. :) -Trish --? Siobhan P. Lynch slynch2112 at me.com trish at secopsunlimited.com? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akosela at andykosela.com Mon Oct 16 17:30:03 2017 From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 23:30:03 +0200 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> References: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> Message-ID: On Monday, October 16, 2017, Siobhan Lynch wrote: > > On Oct 16, 2017, at 09:37 AM, Raul Cuza > wrote > > > From https://www.krackattacks.com/ > [quote] > > Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? > > OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before > CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt > replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open > source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a > month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a > suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative > disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I > allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this > was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by > inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, > OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end > of an embargo. > [/quote] > > Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, > they will now be given the information later so they will not release > patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from > Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? > > Ra?l > > ------ > > LOL, yeah I noticed that as well.... its been a minute since I was > neck-deep in the BSD community, but my reaction was "wow .... some things > never change" - it's nice to know Theo and the OpenBSD folx are pretty > much exactly the same as they've always been. Some things will always > remain constant.... OpenBSD's nature seems a constant. :) > > -Trish > > > A few months embargo?? You must be kidding me. It seems that only OpenBSD project is taking seriously their userbase and their security. --Andy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.saad at ymail.com Mon Oct 16 18:34:46 2017 From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 18:34:46 -0400 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: References: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> Message-ID: All I?ll keep it short; amazing work; I can?t stand the nifty name game , a lot of researchers have adopted . We should all try to get someone to name their newly found issue after a bit of Aztec mythology. I want to see the Centzonmimixcoa exploit . --- Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com > On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Andy Kosela wrote: > > > >> On Monday, October 16, 2017, Siobhan Lynch wrote: >> >> On Oct 16, 2017, at 09:37 AM, Raul Cuza wrote >> >> >> From https://www.krackattacks.com/ >> [quote] >> >> Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? >> >> OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before >> CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt >> replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open >> source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a >> month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a >> suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative >> disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I >> allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this >> was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by >> inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, >> OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end >> of an embargo. >> [/quote] >> >> Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, >> they will now be given the information later so they will not release >> patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from >> Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? >> >> Ra?l >> >> ------ >> >> LOL, yeah I noticed that as well.... its been a minute since I was neck-deep in the BSD community, but my reaction was "wow .... some things never change" - it's nice to know Theo and the OpenBSD folx are pretty much exactly the same as they've always been. Some things will always remain constant..... OpenBSD's nature seems a constant. :) >> >> -Trish >> >> > > A few months embargo?? You must be kidding me. It seems that only OpenBSD project is taking seriously their userbase and their security. > > --Andy > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmatalka at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:55:05 2017 From: mmatalka at gmail.com (Malcolm Matalka) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 13:55:05 +0000 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: (Andy Kosela's message of "Mon, 16 Oct 2017 23:30:03 +0200") References: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> Message-ID: <86mv4oy30m.fsf@gmail.com> Andy Kosela writes: > On Monday, October 16, 2017, Siobhan Lynch wrote: > >> >> On Oct 16, 2017, at 09:37 AM, Raul Cuza > > wrote >> >> >> From https://www.krackattacks.com/ >> [quote] >> >> Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? >> >> OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before >> CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt >> replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open >> source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a >> month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a >> suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative >> disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I >> allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this >> was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by >> inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, >> OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end >> of an embargo. >> [/quote] >> >> Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, >> they will now be given the information later so they will not release >> patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from >> Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? >> >> Ra?l >> >> ------ >> >> LOL, yeah I noticed that as well.... its been a minute since I was >> neck-deep in the BSD community, but my reaction was "wow .... some things >> never change" - it's nice to know Theo and the OpenBSD folx are pretty >> much exactly the same as they've always been. Some things will always >> remain constant.... OpenBSD's nature seems a constant. :) >> >> -Trish >> >> >> > A few months embargo?? You must be kidding me. It seems that only OpenBSD > project is taking seriously their userbase and their security. > > --Andy According to an OpenBSD dev, they agreed to the initial embargo reluctantly and then the rules around the embargo changed and they weren't willing to go along with it so they went by the original embargo: https://lobste.rs/s/dwzplh/krack_attacks_breaking_wpa2#c_pbhnfz > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From spork at bway.net Wed Oct 18 16:01:28 2017 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 16:01:28 -0400 Subject: [talk] OpenBSD Repremianded for Patching Krack Attacks Vunerability In-Reply-To: <86mv4oy30m.fsf@gmail.com> References: <4186cabe-1f43-40c1-9070-7e7447a40366@me.com> <86mv4oy30m.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A67AF64-FF5E-4F06-AEFE-796867C9EBD0@bway.net> > On Oct 18, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Malcolm Matalka wrote: > > Andy Kosela writes: > >> On Monday, October 16, 2017, Siobhan Lynch wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 09:37 AM, Raul Cuza >> > wrote >>> >>> >>> From https://www.krackattacks.com/ >>> [quote] >>> >>> Why did OpenBSD silently release a patch before the embargo? >>> >>> OpenBSD was notified of the vulnerability on 15 July 2017, before >>> CERT/CC was involved in the coordination. Quite quickly, Theo de Raadt >>> replied and critiqued the tentative disclosure deadline: ?In the open >>> source world, if a person writes a diff and has to sit on it for a >>> month, that is very discouraging?. Note that I wrote and included a >>> suggested diff for OpenBSD already, and that at the time the tentative >>> disclosure deadline was around the end of August. As a compromise, I >>> allowed them to silently patch the vulnerability. In hindsight this >>> was a bad decision, since others might rediscover the vulnerability by >>> inspecting their silent patch. To avoid this problem in the future, >>> OpenBSD will now receive vulnerability notifications closer to the end >>> of an embargo. >>> [/quote] >>> >>> Because the OpenBSD project has quick turn around time on bug patches, >>> they will now be given the information later so they will not release >>> patches before other projects. Why does this remind of a story from >>> Flash Boys by Michael Lewis? >>> >>> Ra?l >>> >>> ------ >>> >>> LOL, yeah I noticed that as well.... its been a minute since I was >>> neck-deep in the BSD community, but my reaction was "wow .... some things >>> never change" - it's nice to know Theo and the OpenBSD folx are pretty >>> much exactly the same as they've always been. Some things will always >>> remain constant.... OpenBSD's nature seems a constant. :) >>> >>> -Trish >>> >>> >>> >> A few months embargo?? You must be kidding me. It seems that only OpenBSD >> project is taking seriously their userbase and their security. >> >> --Andy > > According to an OpenBSD dev, they agreed to the initial embargo > reluctantly and then the rules around the embargo changed and they > weren't willing to go along with it so they went by the original > embargo: > > https://lobste.rs/s/dwzplh/krack_attacks_breaking_wpa2#c_pbhnfz Tangent: Ruckus, one of the best enterprise APs out there (on the RF side) STILL does not have this patched and will not have it patched until at least 10/30. They are on the list of companies that had access to the details in August. How sad is that? Charles > > >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pete at nomadlogic.org Thu Oct 19 11:11:42 2017 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 08:11:42 -0700 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> On 10/18/2017 19:42, fire crow wrote: > Hi Pete/Talk, > i'm having a kernel panic when trying to run the latest > freebsd-base-graphics branch. wondering if anyone else has seen this > issue or how i can report it/who i can debug it with. > > here are the steps i have taken > > $ git clone https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/freebsd-base-graphics > $ git checkout drm-next > $ mv /usr/src /usr/src.current > $ mkdir /usr/src > $ cp freebsd-base-graphics/* /usr/src > $ cd /usr/src > $ make -j2 buildworld > $ make -j2 kernel > $ shutdown -r now > then i arrive in the kernel panic ( screenshot attached) > > here is what pciconf says about my graphics card > $ pciconf -lv | grep -A 2 vgapci > vgapci0 at pci0:0:2:0 class=0x030000 card=0x390517aa chip=0x22b18086 > rev=0x35 hdr=0x0 > vender = 'Intel Corporation' > device = 'Atom/Celeron/PEndium Processor x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx > Integrated Graphics Controller' > > and here is my /boot/loader.conf > if_iwm_load="YES" > iwm3160fw_load="YES" > i915kms_load="YES" > hw.vga.textmode=1 > kern.vt.fb.default_mode="1336x768" > > all suggestions welcome > ~fire hrm, i don't think this Atom chipset uses Intel HD Graphics (aka i915 GPU's).? having said that i'm surprised it results in a panic. one thing you can try is to build/install a stock 12-CURRENT world and kernel on your system, then install the drm-next-kmod port/pkg: $ pkg info|grep drm-next drm-next-kmod-g20170918??????? DRM modules for the linuxkpi-based KMS components $ this is what i'm running now since the drm-next devs have merged their code upstream, so no need to run code off of the drm-next github branch anymore!? it's possible there is some instability in that repo right now as i think they are updating things for linux-4.10 compatibility - so give the port/pkg a shot and see if that helps. -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From spork at bway.net Thu Oct 19 19:20:23 2017 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 19:20:23 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> > On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: > > Word, > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 02:25 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> >>> On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017, at 01:05 PM, Brian Cully wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 5-Oct-2017, at 11:40, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey All, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of >>>>> the laptop design. >>>> >>>> And not too pricey. If I hadn?t just bought a new laptop, I?d be eyeing one of these seriously. >>>> >>>>> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? >>>>> graphics not sucking? etc... >>>> >>>> My experience with Intel HD graphics on FreeBSD has not been particularly good, even with TrueOS, whereas it works pretty flawlessly on Ubuntu. The other thing is the usage of the Atheros WiFi chipset, which was super bad for me over USB, although this at least is PCI, and my understanding is that the support there is a lot better. >>>> >>>> One last thing, for me at least, would be just how bad the touchpad is. I?ve never had a good touchpad outside of the Mac laptop lines. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the heads-up, though. I?ll definitely be keeping my eye on this. >>>> >>>> -bjc >>> >>> This fella, Eric McCorkle, seems to have been using one for FreeBSD last >>> summer: >>> >>> https://ericmccorkleblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/16/freebsd-librem-update/ >>> >>> Some year old comments on the trackpad etc... nothing damning. Boy I'd >>> love one in my hands for a day to scope the reality of the hardware >>> before I bought one? >> >> There seems to be lots of controversy about the claims this company has >> made. >> >> Are the points in this older article now moot or not? >> >> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2960524/laptop-computers/why-linux-enthusiasts-are-arguing-over-purisms-sleek-idealistic-librem-laptops.html >> >> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed >> >> >> And having to go back to 2008 for true Stallman-approved FreeDom: >> >> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2879086/the-free-software-foundation-loves-this-laptop-but-you-wont.html >> > > Fascinating. For me, not sure I care about FSF stamp of approval, (the > *BSD's don't have that, so...) > > The other bits about proprietary components, well, reality strikes. > I think these older claims about 100% open hardware are indeed not quite > possible right now. Yet, compared to what I've been looking at lately, > this gear seems *way* saner - and I'm just excited that their Linux > distro is all about no-binary-blobs. Very encouraging for solid *BSD > support! > > Will I ever "100% trust" my hardware? Never have. Unless I make it all > from scratch, (mine the ore for the copper), no. > >> >> There is a rant out there somewhere that I read recently that without >> ditching proprietary BIOS/UEFI/blobs, this laptop is no more secure than >> anything else on the market. >> >> Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) > > I'll assume you are kidding :P > http://www.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=view&id=10356 > Since that talk, I've happily switched from OpenBSD to FreeBSD for my > primary personal rig- and *love it*. > > Why I don't want a MBP (was given a shiny new one at work): This will be long because I normally don?t run into people that talk about the merits of different operating systems. If it?s too sprawling for talk@, let me know! My bad analogy hot take on this is: Windows = DNC (dominates, take what you?re given) OS-X = DSA (they?re trying, really they are and the old dude from VT is cool and likes guns) Desktop *nix = Pure Marxism (exists in theory) Or for the other side of the political spectrum: Windows = RNC (capitalism is awesome, but we suck at making it work for middle class) OS-X = Rand Paul Libertarianism (you can?t have weed, but you can have tax cuts because ?takers?) Desktop *nix = (smash the state, invisible hand is the only option, social darwinism, mostly theory) > - I no longer want anything to do with Mac OS. What?s your biggest complaint there? I?m not onboard the whole ?ios-ification? thing, I keep waiting for it to come and it hasn?t. And there?s such an ecosystem of terrific software out there that just doesn?t exist in FOSS versions (Pixelmator, Photoshop, other graphics/video/audio stuff that I need often enough to miss). And iTerm2 + tmux integration. Certainly there are going to be security issues, but in my various dayjobs I?ve yet to encounter a malware-infested Mac. And a unified interface, I have a hard time leaving that. I?ve poked at a few current unix desktops in vmware (another options not available on desktop unix) and found them to be the UI equivalent of a vomited-up pizza. :) I also dearly love Little Snitch, never seen anything like that on desktop *nix. Not only does it act as a nice outbound firewall to show what?s trying to phone home, but it also works with the os-x code-signing stuff to block unsigned apps from network communications. It?s pretty slick. I?m also a fan of the whole code-signing model as well, but I?m happy to hear how that?s a flawed security measure. > - USBc, *nothing but USBc*. That blows for so many reasons. I only recently discovered that, my prior/dying MBP had the magsafe connector, which is one of the best inventions ever compared to the idiocy of a barrel-plug that will both yank your laptop off the counter and more than likely do damage to the mainboard. My new MBP is USB-c and it?s love/hate. On the upside I can charge it in the car with no fancy add-ons. On the downside, I have to carry a dongle for normal USB. But my use case is that I?m either on the couch with it or at a coffee shop, neither of which involve wires or dongles (and if I forego Chrome for Safari, 8 hours of working on a charge is a real thing). There is a headphone/mic jack too. :) And of course, in a few years, windows laptops will also only have USB-c. It?s inevitable. Long term you will learn to love your single-standard jack. And none of this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111004.gif I am of course going to have to buy one of these sorts of things: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Stouchi-Connection-Charging/dp/B075XM3SHX/ > - USBc - requires data exchange just to *charge the rig* I still say this is the eventual standard, but there are options for this: https://www.amazon.com/PortaPow-Specialised-Block-Charge-USB-C/dp/B01AY9TDYK/ > - Bag full of adapters and peripherals. Depends on your use case - I?m on wifi about 99.9% of the time. I have an ethernet dongle, but that?s it. Oh, and an old Keyspan USB to serial - these are all dwarfed by other things I need to carry if I do go in to ?work? (misc. serial console cables and such are way more bulky). And less stuff to carry overall - single charger for phone, tablet, laptop means less power cubes. But I do like this dude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU (DONGLES!) > - Apple USBc mixed up wth thunderbolt, and bang DMA!!! What could go > wrong! See cable above. And in my use case I totally don?t find myself plugging into random shit. And as I discovered with my 2011 MBP, you can boot linux and fiddle with stuff in the EFI filesystem or use the ?nvram? utility in single user w/SIP disabled to turn off various things (in my case, disabling the fried NVidia GPU). When you?re talking about shadowy figures sneaking up to you in public and plugging stuff into your laptop to own you, you?re already a target and I don?t know if a *BSD/Linux laptop will save you. > - Simply not interested in running anything but OSX on this hardware. Except in a VM. And speaking of VMs, OS-X now has a built-in VM system just waiting for a GUI: https://veertu.com/veertu-desktop/ > > Other Lenovo/Dell-XPS models I've been angling for: > - USBc charging > - Lots more proprietary hardware > - More dependence on bluetooth and gimmiky crapola > - Most of them: HDD/RAM soldered down, Particularly the HDD, that bugs > me! The soldered in SSD sucks. Laptops are becoming big phones and that trend is not reversing. The RAM bothers me less because RAM generally doesn?t fail. SSDs wear out. > So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems > almost too good to be true- *for me* :) I suspect that in 5 years or so the laptop market is going to be even more phone-like and disposable, not just on the Apple side. > > Best, > .ike > > >> >> Charles >> >>> >>> Rocket- >>> .ike >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> talk mailing list >>> talk at lists.nycbug.org >>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 19 23:13:31 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:13:31 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <796B09D8-552E-4299-944D-E1B6E65F1A4C@blackskyresearch.net> Message-ID: <2a545566-7e37-0c0d-a4ce-c063b4221397@blackskyresearch.net> On 10/14/2017 14:01, Okan Demirmen wrote: > ? How is a gigabit Ethernet port a dream yet to come true for you on a > laptop? I haven't had anything but gig ports on laptops for quite some > time now... Oh Okan, I envy your stance- stay away from this terrifying USBc future as long as you can :) Rocket- .ike From ike at blackskyresearch.net Thu Oct 19 23:14:59 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 23:14:59 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <283fe49f-8f64-c1d3-6409-c33e9fb88c5d@blackskyresearch.net> On 10/07/2017 10:44, Sujit K M wrote: > On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:10 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy > wrote: >> Hey All, >> >> Has anyone heard anything good/bad about the laptops from Purism >> ? >> >> I can't believe my eyes they look too cool. Like nearly every aspect of >> the laptop design. >> >> I'm still way overdue for a laptop refresh, and have just been unable to >> bite the bullet on a new Dell or Lenovo- (long list of hardware >> drawbacks for me). >> >> These laptops seem incredibly straightforward, and some features are a >> bit wild, (radio/camera hardware kill switches), but otherwise they just >> look like a *sane* modern laptop?! All their stuff on the site about >> being the 'good guys' feels weird, but whatever- I guess it's better >> marketing message than most. >> >> -- >> Big scary question marks for use as a *BSD laptop: Sleep/Resume? >> graphics not sucking? etc... > > Looks like they package it with PureOS, You would still have trouble using > BSD. Looks like the big final puri.sm hurdle is actually the bootloader, but that's second hand info so... Best, .ike From ike at blackskyresearch.net Fri Oct 20 12:41:56 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 12:41:56 -0400 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> Message-ID: Wordup Spork! For you, someone I've respected for years, a considered yet terse response follows. (warning: verbosity breeds verbosity :) This is a *BSD list, so it's kindof boring to discuss other Operating Systems- yet, this post is certainly contextually relevant to the *BSD's. Charles, in general- I think it's great if you like your Mac. Yet, I am trying below to genuinely answer your questions about why *I* have abandoned Apple and have nothing but disdain for their platform, so, you'll have to put up with a grumpy ike if you read on below, you've scratched a number of things in computing I truly loathe these days, On 10/19/2017 19:20, Charles Sprickman wrote: >>> Hey, have you considered a MBP? :) >> >> I'll assume you are kidding :P >> http://www.nycbug.org/index.cgi?action=view&id=10356 >> Since that talk, I've happily switched from OpenBSD to FreeBSD for my >> primary personal rig- and *love it*. >> >> Why I don't want a MBP (was given a shiny new one at work): > > This will be long because I normally don?t run into people that talk > about the merits of different operating systems. If it?s too sprawling > for talk@, let me know! My bad analogy hot take on this is> > Windows = DNC (dominates, take what you?re given) Not sure where you hang out day to day, but I'm pretty sure Windows no longer dominates- Apple is the new Microsoft (in numbers, here). I'll leave the political parties out of it and just address the statements, > OS-X = DSA (they?re trying, really they are and the old dude from VT is > cool and likes guns) /me winces, The actual socio-political issues at Apple corp are way more fascinating to me than this comparison, for example, https://www.wired.com/story/apple-campus/ > Desktop *nix = Pure Marxism (exists in theory) Why? I'm typing this right now on a *real* (not theory) FreeBSD desktop- which I love using, also was loving OpenBSD as desktop for a year, (after 30+ years of Apple). I started with the lightweight XFCE, which I still like best, but have been using big fat KDE for a while now- due to the subtle (and mac-like) window movements and interactions. So far, KDE has become easier on my old eyes, (and it's still way lighter weight than the OSX finder, particularly if you don't turn on the fancy 3d-enhanced stuff). > > Or for the other side of the political spectrum: > > Windows = RNC (capitalism is awesome, but we suck at making it work for > middle class) I think that's Apple now, the Apple Stores aren't exactly there for the the common man. > OS-X = Rand Paul Libertarianism (you can?t have weed, but you can have > tax cuts because ?takers?) Will move on, too much to unpack there. > Desktop *nix = (smash the state, invisible hand is the only option, > social darwinism, mostly theory) > This one I find odd, why do you see a *nix desktop as as "smash the state"? I'm curious. That's certainly not why I want a *BSD laptop. I simply want a computer that does precisely I want it to do. I want to hack on the source. I want to know and use my hardware however I choose to use it. I want to understand and audit various aspects which relate to my security needs and wants. >> - I no longer want anything to do with Mac OS. > > What?s your biggest complaint there? I responded with a short list before- but the jist: - I want a machine that I can do what I wish with it - that I can secure as I see fit - that is my personal computer- (not a rented/metered device tuned for a broad user base) An Apple rig these days does not do much what I want it to do, and does a lot of things I do *not* want it to. I'm a UNIX hacker, and a specific and "advanced" user. Perhaps now more than ever, I'm not part of the broad audience. > I?m not onboard the whole > ?ios-ification? thing, I keep waiting for it to come and it hasn?t. Sure it has, IMHO. Software updates from the App Store, (and requisite apple account). ADC login required to get the clang/llvm compiler. (OK, so that's *sortof* cute-hacky workaround nowadays, but regardless). And the most ios-ification thing I can think of: the manner in which signed apps are rolled out. By default, Apple takes responsibility for a *huge* amount of what can happen on your machine- with ambiguous terms for how they handle this profound liability. I'm not saying they are evil, I'm just saying that their handling of the signing of programs which run (or do not run) on my computer is subject to forces *way* outside of my control, and are totally opaque to me. > And > there?s such an ecosystem of terrific software out there that just > doesn?t exist in FOSS versions (Pixelmator, Photoshop, other > graphics/video/audio stuff that I need often enough to miss). I'm not sticking to an OS platform for any single software. I do miss Photoshop and illustrator, but not much. The product hasn't changed since I first picked up PaintWorks plus when I was 8 years old, (except it's all cloud annoy). Yet, I find Gimp usable- after all these years it's stable and fantastic for my needs. Inkscape I may never quite get used to, but will see. I'd never recommend or force Gimp on anyone, but I personally like it quite a lot for my casual needs. 3D tools, well... for a project, I recently became proficient in SketchUp on a Mac, and it's done nothing but open up a world of *way better* open source apps (that I have yet to master enough to be proficient with). So I don't miss the Mac there either. OmniGraffle, in my NYC*BUG talk- I sang sad songs about how I miss it. But hey- there's other ways to make structured graphs and draw- from LibreOffice, to GraphVis, to Inkscape plus plenty of other tools I haven't even tried yet. > And iTerm2 > + tmux integration. Certainly there are going to be security issues, Yes there certainly are security issues there. No comment on iTerm2, I typically use whatever terminal is available- (I believe they all do UTF-8 and proper terminal emulation these days- all else is uninteresting candy to me). I'm not a tmux(1) user, but it certainly does not require a mac :) > but > in my various dayjobs I?ve yet to encounter a malware-infested Mac. I have. >From my view, Mac is the new Windows, circa 1997... Right as bad things were proliferating, (internet), truly bad times were just around the corner... > And > a unified interface, I have a hard time leaving that. I?ve poked at a > few current unix desktops in vmware (another options not available on > desktop unix) and found them to be the UI equivalent of a vomited-up > pizza. :) I find that a bit harsh, (I'm using KDE right now , and it suits my needs- and with some work, I got most of the things I cared about in the OSX Finder- plus some new X11 things I'd always wanted, (particularly on the scriptability front). I do however miss *very nice* column view in Finder, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_columns In my old NYC*BUG presentation, the X11 desktop was an unfamiliar UI to me- however the biggest point I had to grow though when leaving the Mac (for OpenBSD/XFCE then). But, a few weeks of using it, and boom- I was as fast and comfortable as before- and the desktop felt natural. Programs I don't like? I delete them :) (Or rather, uninstall them from ports etc...). My machine. > > I also dearly love Little Snitch, never seen anything like that on > desktop *nix. Sure, as a gui tool, sure- it stands out. But for years I've used: - PF/IPFW outbond rules? (been doing that for years myself, even just logs are rad, no?) - Capsicum (FreeBSD), pledge(2) (OpenBSD) - Super easy and mind-blowing dtrace one-liners (FreeBSD) Applications are themselves incorporating great (and transparent) sandboxing, particularly browsers- good work in Firefox/Chrome on this right now. And there's plenty of system level sandboxing, from chroot(8) to jail(8) etc... (And don't raise the idea "dtrace is there on a modern mac". Implementation and apple maintenance So half-assed they obviously stopped caring some time ago and it still just sits there, like many of their man pages for missing utils- because nobody at Apple has taken time to untangle how they jammed it in in the first place...) > Not only does it act as a nice outbound firewall to show > what?s trying to phone home, but it also works with the os-x > code-signing stuff to block unsigned apps from network communications. Right. Yet, the signing/blocking/etc decisions are being made at a massive company with constantly shifting goals- angry birds sort of goals- and a short attention span that can only be profitable in silicon valley. Does nothing but make me annoyed using *my* machine. While I respect Apple's engineering here immensely, and respect their intent, I'd think the NYC DMV would do a better job of managing signed software and weather or not it runs on my computer. (The NYC DMV actually is a pretty effective org these days, why not! ;) > It?s pretty slick. I?m also a fan of the whole code-signing model as > well, but I?m happy to hear how that?s a flawed security measure. Bigsigh. 1) Crypto implemented in Hardware. Good for 2nd factor type measures. Bad for places where you need good trust. 2) The code-signing model is a blackbox. Companies like Google and Bloomberg have been *on their knees* to get to just *use it* for their internal auth needs- but after ? years, Apple continues not to GAF. Just this week: The WEP2-pocalapyse! (Did we not learn from WPA? Everyone who trusts their wireless network and is compromised this week because they ran naked mission-critical SQL or somesuch nonsense over their wireless- well, IMHO, they deserve it.) Even the Yubikeys this week, RSA implementation flawed because of a vendor chip mistake. (I use the heck out of Yubikeys for 2fa, but surely not for RSA signing/private keygen- for my applied needs it makes no sense at all.) Blackbox models are just bad security, regardless of Apple (or anyone's) intent. Continuing this discussion makes me cranky so if you want to go further please just go re-read some Schneider. > >> - USBc, *nothing but USBc*. That blows for so many reasons. > > I only recently discovered that, my prior/dying MBP had the magsafe > connector, which is one of the best inventions ever compared to the > idiocy of a barrel-plug that will both yank your laptop off the counter > and more than likely do damage to the mainboard. MagSafe: Best invention ever. I wonder if it's really patented, particularly now they killed the product? :) > My new MBP is USB-c and > it?s love/hate. On the upside I can charge it in the car with no fancy > add-ons. Do you USB-c your laptop right into *your car*? I cannot comprehend. Honestly. Not sure I want to know more. > On the downside, I have to carry a dongle for normal USB. But > my use case is that I?m either on the couch with it or at a coffee shop, > neither of which involve wires or dongles (and if I forego Chrome for > Safari, 8 hours of working on a charge is a real thing). Firefox user here. I find Chromium great on FreeBSD for YouTube etc... Safari: well, I guess I have that on this KDE machine, (Konqueror fork). Sortof kidding, sortof not. > > There is a headphone/mic jack too. :) Macbooks appear to still have those. The iPhone mess they've made has really ruined *my* experience with my music- major love lost for their "Bravery". > > And of course, in a few years, windows laptops will also only have > USB-c. It?s inevitable. Long term you will learn to love your > single-standard jack. Why will I learn to love this single-standard jack? And why do people keep putting it that way? I've been through *many* cable/port stnadards over the years, Spork you have too. They come and go. None are guaranteed to last. It's great if *you* like it. I do not, for specific usability, security, and complexity issues. I prefer to use separate products for floor wax and dessert topping. > > And none of this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111004.gif > > I am of course going to have to buy one of these sorts of things: > > https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Stouchi-Connection-Charging/dp/B075XM3SHX/ > It's neat to see a 3rd party mag-safe thingie. It doesn't get me excited about buying an Apple laptop. This "but I need a 3rd party dongle to do a thing I want" business is why I've hated most non-apple laptops over the years. > >> - USBc - requires data exchange just to *charge the rig* > > I still say this is the eventual standard, but there are options for this: Because you think it will be an eventual standard, does not address my concern that the technology is unacceptably insecure to me. It's like saying to me `Yeah, I know it's harmful but we'll all be doing do it anyhow eventually here.` "Eventual standard" is a bold claim to start with, and disregards my legitimate beef with USBc. As I stated before, I'm *not* happy to require data exchange in order to initiate the simple act of charging (male to male cables). You seem to be just fine with that. Perhaps when you get owned one day by plugging into power when your laptop was dying, you'll change your mind. First time that happened to me was Defcon 10, a hacked-up firewire drive- made me learn to be wary of DMA ports. Since then, anyone who's not dug into the related exploits/meat of the Snowden docs, well, I don't think they have anything relevant to say on security today. From the tools to their documented, widespread, dragnet applied use. > > https://www.amazon.com/PortaPow-Specialised-Block-Charge-USB-C/dp/B01AY9TDYK/ > >> - Bag full of adapters and peripherals. > > Depends on your use case - I?m on wifi about 99.9% of the time. I have > an ethernet dongle, but that?s it. Oh, and an old Keyspan USB to serial > - these are all dwarfed by other things I need to carry if I do go in to > ?work? (misc. serial console cables and such are way more bulky). Great for you. > > And less stuff to carry overall - single charger for phone, tablet, > laptop means less power cubes. One standard to rule them all. I have yet to see that work. Even new iPhone is still not USBc. > > But I do like this dude: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU (DONGLES!) > >> - Apple USBc mixed up wth thunderbolt, and bang DMA!!! What could go >> wrong! > > See cable above. Are you trolling me Spork? Nothing from that (very very funny and sad) video makes me excited about carrying more dongles. > And in my use case I totally don?t find myself plugging > into random shit. And as I discovered with my 2011 MBP, you can boot > linux and fiddle with stuff in the EFI filesystem or use the ?nvram? > utility in single user w/SIP disabled to turn off various things (in my > case, disabling the fried NVidia GPU). > When you?re talking about > shadowy figures sneaking up to you in public and plugging stuff into > your laptop to own you, you?re already a target and I don?t know if a > *BSD/Linux laptop will save you. That's not the common case, and disregards the actual security problem I'm presenting. The common case is infected/flawed devices/dongles. We've seen this for years in non-DMA stuff, from even USB sticks- to other peripherial/dongles. We've even seen the mass application by "shadowy figures" through the programs instituted by the NSA- and in that case I'm less worried about the NSA, and more worried about people taking advantage of their backdoors. When you paint the picture as something so wild and sinister, you work against simple hardware security here. Yet perhaps I missed your point? > >> - Simply not interested in running anything but OSX on this hardware. > > Except in a VM. > > And speaking of VMs, OS-X now has a built-in VM system just waiting for > a GUI: https://veertu.com/veertu-desktop/ For development, I use many forms of VM all day long. I have no interest in running *the computer I want to run*, inside a *computer I do not like or trust*. Unless I missed your point, moving on: > >> >> Other Lenovo/Dell-XPS models I've been angling for: >> - USBc charging >> - Lots more proprietary hardware >> - More dependence on bluetooth and gimmiky crapola >> - Most of them: HDD/RAM soldered down, Particularly the HDD, that bugs >> me! > > The soldered in SSD sucks. Laptops are becoming big phones and that > trend is not reversing. The RAM bothers me less because RAM generally > doesn?t fail. SSDs wear out. Finally we agree. > >> So, with that tip-of-the-iceberg ranting done, this Purism rig seems >> almost too good to be true- *for me* :) > > I suspect that in 5 years or so the laptop market is going to be even > more phone-like and disposable, not just on the Apple side. Cool. And there will be no more servers because the cloud will take care of that too. (Now I'm grumpy and will probably ignore this thread for the weekend to regain my sanity.) Spork: we are due for a beer at a NYC*BUG meeting, no? Next round on me :) Rocket- .ike From fire at firecrow.com Sat Oct 21 00:21:18 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 04:21:18 +0000 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. $ kldload vesa module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl ~fire On Oct 19, 2017 11:11 AM, "Pete Wright" wrote: > > > On 10/18/2017 19:42, fire crow wrote: > >> Hi Pete/Talk, >> i'm having a kernel panic when trying to run the latest >> freebsd-base-graphics branch. wondering if anyone else has seen this >> issue or how i can report it/who i can debug it with. >> >> here are the steps i have taken >> >> $ git clone https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/freebsd-base-graphics >> $ git checkout drm-next >> $ mv /usr/src /usr/src.current >> $ mkdir /usr/src >> $ cp freebsd-base-graphics/* /usr/src >> $ cd /usr/src >> $ make -j2 buildworld >> $ make -j2 kernel >> $ shutdown -r now >> then i arrive in the kernel panic ( screenshot attached) >> >> here is what pciconf says about my graphics card >> $ pciconf -lv | grep -A 2 vgapci >> vgapci0 at pci0:0:2:0 class=0x030000 card=0x390517aa chip=0x22b18086 >> rev=0x35 hdr=0x0 >> vender = 'Intel Corporation' >> device = 'Atom/Celeron/PEndium Processor x5-E8000/J3xxx/N3xxx >> Integrated Graphics Controller' >> >> and here is my /boot/loader.conf >> if_iwm_load="YES" >> iwm3160fw_load="YES" >> i915kms_load="YES" >> hw.vga.textmode=1 >> kern.vt.fb.default_mode="1336x768" >> >> all suggestions welcome >> ~fire >> > > hrm, i don't think this Atom chipset uses Intel HD Graphics (aka i915 > GPU's). having said that i'm surprised it results in a panic. one thing > you can try is to build/install a stock 12-CURRENT world and kernel on your > system, then install the drm-next-kmod port/pkg: > > $ pkg info|grep drm-next > drm-next-kmod-g20170918 DRM modules for the linuxkpi-based KMS > components > $ > > this is what i'm running now since the drm-next devs have merged their > code upstream, so no need to run code off of the drm-next github branch > anymore! it's possible there is some instability in that repo right now as > i think they are updating things for linux-4.10 compatibility - so give the > port/pkg a shot and see if that helps. > > -pete > > > -- > Pete Wright > pete at nomadlogic.org > @nomadlogicLA > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scottro11 at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 01:19:07 2017 From: scottro11 at gmail.com (Scott Robbins) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:19:07 -0400 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 04:21:18AM +0000, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl I have a page, by now probably outdated (and I've been really ill, so no time or energy to follow up But it seems as as if the docs wound up in 5 different places and are inconsistent these days. Eventually, using http://srobb.net/freebsdintel.html got me having a so so Intel integrated card experience. Not as good as Linux. For example, if I got out of X after it started, I would have to ssh in a reboot to get access again, that sort of thing. Same issues with Intel wireless dual band cards, 50MBS speeds on LAN with Linux, 2 MB on BSD. (This is mentioned at some places in man pages) I have not had health to follow up on this for about a month though, so maybe it's improved. However from what I've seen, FreeBSD, and even OpenBSD, are requiring more time, energy and research to use as a nice laptop. Conversely, my desktops, (NVidas) are just about as good with FreeBSD. But even 2-3 year old laptops give me problems. Then again, I don't know how much we give up in blobs and the like to get the Linux stuff to work easily. I haven't tried any Atheros cards, and won't have a chance to for awhile,but as far as wireless Intel, the dual band stuff for iwm isn't working well. If this sounds as trollish and awful as it may look to me, apologies. Again, long period of illness right now and sometimes overly medicated. But for a laptop in a NOC to get into a server, Free/OpenBSD will be fine For a smooth scrollin', web browsin', fast graphic thing, might be better off saving that for your workstation. (With NVidia) There are lots of threads on the Intel stuff on forums. Some folks got things to work. One person feels the problem is that FreeBSD developers use Mac but OpenBSD people do it right. But, if you get lucky you may find someone with similar hardware who solved your problem. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 From gnn at neville-neil.com Sat Oct 21 12:30:54 2017 From: gnn at neville-neil.com (George Neville-Neil) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:30:54 -0700 Subject: [talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> Message-ID: On 20 Oct 2017, at 22:19, Scott Robbins wrote: > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 04:21:18AM +0000, fire crow wrote: >> Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and >> drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. >> Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im >> trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: >> MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > >> sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl I have a page, by >> now probably outdated (and I've been really ill, so no time or energy >> to follow up But it seems as as if the docs wound up in 5 different >> places and are inconsistent these days. Eventually, using >> http://srobb.net/freebsdintel.html got me having a so so Intel >> integrated card experience. Not as good as Linux. For example, if I > got out of X after it started, I would have to ssh in a reboot to get > access again, that sort of thing. > > Same issues with Intel wireless dual band cards, 50MBS speeds on LAN > with > Linux, 2 MB on BSD. (This is mentioned at some places in man pages) > > I have not had health to follow up on this for about a month though, > so > maybe it's improved. However from what I've seen, FreeBSD, and even > OpenBSD, are requiring more time, energy and research to use as a > nice laptop. > Conversely, my desktops, (NVidas) are just about as good with FreeBSD. > > But even 2-3 year old laptops give me problems. > > Then again, I don't know how much we give up in blobs and the like to > get > the Linux stuff to work easily. I haven't tried any Atheros cards, and > won't have a chance to for awhile,but as far as wireless Intel, the > dual > band stuff for iwm isn't working well. > > If this sounds as trollish and awful as it may look to me, apologies. > Again, long period of illness right now and sometimes overly > medicated. > > But for a laptop in a NOC to get into a server, Free/OpenBSD will be > fine > > For a smooth scrollin', web browsin', fast graphic thing, might be > better > off saving that for your workstation. (With NVidia) > > > There are lots of threads on the Intel stuff on forums. > Some folks got things to work. One person feels the problem is that > FreeBSD developers use Mac but OpenBSD people do it right. But, if you > get > lucky you may find someone with similar hardware who solved your > problem. > > > > -- FreeBSD HEAD + X11 and WiFi just works on my X270. See my updates on twitter @gvnn3 Best, George From pete at nomadlogic.org Sat Oct 21 13:03:49 2017 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 10:03:49 -0700 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <85b5bd23-d122-bf96-36e7-427b1817ff09@nomadlogic.org> On 10/20/2017 21:21, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and > drm-next-kmod from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im > currently looking at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying > to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl does your console load w/o attempting to load the vesa driver?? if it does you might want to take a stab at using the SCFB xorg driver: xf86-video-scfb-0.0.4_5??????? X.Org syscons display driver It's a software driver, which while it may be slow - but it certainly is usable for browsing, hacking and email.? it is what i was using on my systems until we could get the drm-next code in a semi-usable state. i'm not %100 sure why vesa would refuse to load the as a kmod - might be worth pinging freebsd-x11@ if you get frustrated with it :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From fire at firecrow.com Sat Oct 21 13:13:07 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:13:07 +0000 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <85b5bd23-d122-bf96-36e7-427b1817ff09@nomadlogic.org> References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> <85b5bd23-d122-bf96-36e7-427b1817ff09@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Oct 21, 2017 1:03 PM, "Pete Wright" wrote: On 10/20/2017 21:21, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl > does your console load w/o attempting to load the vesa driver? if it does you might want to take a stab at using the SCFB xorg driver: xf86-video-scfb-0.0.4_5 X.Org syscons display driver It's a software driver, which while it may be slow - but it certainly is usable for browsing, hacking and email. it is what i was using on my systems until we could get the drm-next code in a semi-usable state. i'm not %100 sure why vesa would refuse to load the as a kmod - might be worth pinging freebsd-x11@ if you get frustrated with it :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA Thanks, I was able to get scfb working a couple months ago if i remember right. It was slow but usable. Thing is im not in X anymore, im just rocking on the inital vt console to develop, using links for a browser etc. Im only after smaller text and nicer fonts, but trying to pull it off in a world without X. Readig vesa kmod code now, im hoping i can just update what devices the driver identifies and use existing code for it. Fingera crossed. ~fire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sat Oct 21 13:40:36 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:40:36 +0000 Subject: [talk] Fwd: In-Reply-To: <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> Message-ID: On Oct 21, 2017 1:19 AM, "Scott Robbins" wrote: On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 04:21:18AM +0000, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl I have a page, by now probably outdated (and I've been really ill, so no time or energy to follow up But it seems as as if the docs wound up in 5 different places and are inconsistent these days. Eventually, using http://srobb.net/freebsdintel.html got me having a so so Intel integrated card experience. Not as good as Linux. For example, if I got out of X after it started, I would have to ssh in a reboot to get access again, that sort of thing. Same issues with Intel wireless dual band cards, 50MBS speeds on LAN with Linux, 2 MB on BSD. (This is mentioned at some places in man pages) Ive been able to get intel wireless working with the combination of if_iwm and iwm3160fw modules. The dedicated graphics on the atom chip is giving me the headaches ~fire I have not had health to follow up on this for about a month though, so maybe it's improved. However from what I've seen, FreeBSD, and even OpenBSD, are requiring more time, energy and research to use as a nice laptop. Conversely, my desktops, (NVidas) are just about as good with FreeBSD. But even 2-3 year old laptops give me problems. Then again, I don't know how much we give up in blobs and the like to get the Linux stuff to work easily. I haven't tried any Atheros cards, and won't have a chance to for awhile,but as far as wireless Intel, the dual band stuff for iwm isn't working well. If this sounds as trollish and awful as it may look to me, apologies. Again, long period of illness right now and sometimes overly medicated. But for a laptop in a NOC to get into a server, Free/OpenBSD will be fine For a smooth scrollin', web browsin', fast graphic thing, might be better off saving that for your workstation. (With NVidia) There are lots of threads on the Intel stuff on forums. Some folks got things to work. One person feels the problem is that FreeBSD developers use Mac but OpenBSD people do it right. But, if you get lucky you may find someone with similar hardware who solved your problem. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sat Oct 21 13:43:45 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:43:45 +0000 Subject: [talk] Log kernel info for vesa driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Off hand does anyone know how to log information from inside a kernel module, debugging vesa.ko. ~fire On Oct 21, 2017 1:14 PM, "fire crow" wrote: On Oct 21, 2017 1:03 PM, "Pete Wright" wrote: On 10/20/2017 21:21, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl > does your console load w/o attempting to load the vesa driver? if it does you might want to take a stab at using the SCFB xorg driver: xf86-video-scfb-0.0.4_5 X.Org syscons display driver It's a software driver, which while it may be slow - but it certainly is usable for browsing, hacking and email. it is what i was using on my systems until we could get the drm-next code in a semi-usable state. i'm not %100 sure why vesa would refuse to load the as a kmod - might be worth pinging freebsd-x11@ if you get frustrated with it :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA Thanks, I was able to get scfb working a couple months ago if i remember right. It was slow but usable. Thing is im not in X anymore, im just rocking on the inital vt console to develop, using links for a browser etc. Im only after smaller text and nicer fonts, but trying to pull it off in a world without X. Readig vesa kmod code now, im hoping i can just update what devices the driver identifies and use existing code for it. Fingera crossed. ~fire _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sat Oct 21 14:57:20 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 18:57:20 +0000 Subject: [talk] Log kernel info for vesa driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 21, 2017 1:43 PM, "fire crow" wrote: Hi all, Off hand does anyone know how to log information from inside a kernel module, debugging vesa.ko. ~fire Nvm, found it, uprintf, https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/arch-handbook/driverbasics-kld.html ~fire On Oct 21, 2017 1:14 PM, "fire crow" wrote: On Oct 21, 2017 1:03 PM, "Pete Wright" wrote: On 10/20/2017 21:21, fire crow wrote: > Hi thanks for the tips, 12.0 current from the svn head and drm-next-kmod > from ports didnt load up when vt initialized on boot. Im currently looking > at the vesa kmod, getting this error that im trying to work out. > > $ kldload vesa > module_register_init: MOD_LOAD (vesa, 0x< f and numbers>, 0) error 19 > sysctl_unregister_oid: failed to unregister sysctl > does your console load w/o attempting to load the vesa driver? if it does you might want to take a stab at using the SCFB xorg driver: xf86-video-scfb-0.0.4_5 X.Org syscons display driver It's a software driver, which while it may be slow - but it certainly is usable for browsing, hacking and email. it is what i was using on my systems until we could get the drm-next code in a semi-usable state. i'm not %100 sure why vesa would refuse to load the as a kmod - might be worth pinging freebsd-x11@ if you get frustrated with it :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete at nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA Thanks, I was able to get scfb working a couple months ago if i remember right. It was slow but usable. Thing is im not in X anymore, im just rocking on the inital vt console to develop, using links for a browser etc. Im only after smaller text and nicer fonts, but trying to pull it off in a world without X. Readig vesa kmod code now, im hoping i can just update what devices the driver identifies and use existing code for it. Fingera crossed. ~fire _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk at lists.nycbug.org http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at netgate.com Sat Oct 21 21:56:59 2017 From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 20:56:59 -0500 Subject: [talk] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <3555e2a2-ee4f-4be1-15aa-4fd27d2a7845@nomadlogic.org> <20171021051907.GA16909@scott1.scottro.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:30 AM, George Neville-Neil wrote: > > FreeBSD HEAD + X11 and WiFi just works on my X270. See my updates on > twitter @gvnn3 > ?And if that's too spendy, the same combination worked great on my X230 before I gave it to Renato to take back to Brazil. I was considering buying another X230 off FleaBay, but when gnn@ got his X270 working, (he's modest resume works!), I started thinking about another X1 Carbon (gave my Gen4 to one of our internal accounting people who needed to run Windows) or joining the X270 club. The x270 will get over 20 hours on batteries. Jim ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fire at firecrow.com Sun Oct 22 22:59:16 2017 From: fire at firecrow.com (fire crow) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 02:59:16 +0000 Subject: [talk] Fwd: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sent this to freebad-drivers thought id reach out locally as well ~firecrow ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "fire crow" Date: Oct 22, 2017 22:35 Subject: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c To: Cc: Hi, I'm trying to log infirmation about video devices in the `vid_register` function in `sys/dev/fb/fb.c` and it appears that using `uprintf` is causing a kernel panic. Is there another logging facility I can use? Thanks ~fire -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcallah at devio.us Sun Oct 22 23:10:19 2017 From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 23:10:19 -0400 Subject: [talk] Fwd: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/22/17 22:59, fire crow wrote: > Sent this to freebad-drivers thought id reach out locally as well > free bad drivers, indeed. ~Brian > ~firecrow > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "fire crow" > > Date: Oct 22, 2017 22:35 > Subject: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c > To: > > Cc: > > Hi, > I'm trying to log infirmation about video devices in the > `vid_register` function in `sys/dev/fb/fb.c` and it appears that > using `uprintf` is causing a kernel panic. Is there another > logging facility I can use? > > Thanks > ~fire > > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcallah at devio.us Sun Oct 22 23:14:24 2017 From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 23:14:24 -0400 Subject: [talk] Fwd: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/22/17 23:10, Brian Callahan wrote: > > On 10/22/17 22:59, fire crow wrote: >> Sent this to freebad-drivers thought id reach out locally as well >> > > free bad drivers, indeed. > For the record, not a commentary on the code quality of FreeBSD; I just enjoy pointing out typos that really make a difference, since it happens to me all the time :) ~Brian > ~Brian > >> ~firecrow >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "fire crow" > >> Date: Oct 22, 2017 22:35 >> Subject: Logging information from inside fb/fb.c >> To: > >> Cc: >> >> Hi, >> I'm trying to log infirmation about video devices in the >> `vid_register` function in `sys/dev/fb/fb.c` and it appears that >> using `uprintf` is causing a kernel panic. Is there another >> logging facility I can use? >> >> Thanks >> ~fire >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From george at ceetonetechnology.com Thu Oct 26 11:13:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:13:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> Message-ID: <05f73300-6b22-4c8a-238d-a389d8873fe8@ceetonetechnology.com> Isaac (.ike) Levy: > Wordup Spork! > > For you, someone I've respected for years, a considered yet terse Well, that killed the thread, but thought this might be of interest: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/?st=j98luls6&sh=175c6a05 Browsed through it quickly after a discussion about it, but it comes down to things like GPIO for the kill switch (in which the wireless card pleasantly asks to shutdown), Intel ME access to RAM, and so on. g From george at ceetonetechnology.com Thu Oct 26 11:51:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 15:51:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true? In-Reply-To: <05f73300-6b22-4c8a-238d-a389d8873fe8@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> <05f73300-6b22-4c8a-238d-a389d8873fe8@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: <0e452ca1-24da-4397-3786-2b1a4fd22a9e@ceetonetechnology.com> George Rosamond: > Isaac (.ike) Levy: >> Wordup Spork! >> >> For you, someone I've respected for years, a considered yet terse > > Well, that killed the thread, but thought this might be of interest: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3anjgm/on_the_librem_laptop_purism_doesnt_believe_in/?st=j98luls6&sh=175c6a05 > > Browsed through it quickly after a discussion about it, but it comes > down to things like GPIO for the kill switch (in which the wireless card > pleasantly asks to shutdown), Intel ME access to RAM, and so on. How about the Novena? i.MX6 Freescale. I don't think I've seen it specifically mentioned on the fbsd-arm@ list, although I could be mistaken. https://www.kosagi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=473 Also on wikipedia "(computing_platform)" g From njt at ayvali.org Thu Oct 26 17:53:09 2017 From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:53:09 -0700 Subject: [talk] OmniGraffle replacement (was Re: puri.sm laptops - Too good to be true?) In-Reply-To: References: <1507218041.539012.1129036848.73C03CB7@webmail.messagingengine.com> <644B03D6-81C7-415C-B407-04472273620B@gmail.com> <1507227101.594241.1129142176.5CD08DEF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <7442B379-99BB-4EAA-9CC8-5D074287458F@bway.net> <1507228947.603358.1129228048.7AFF4A97@webmail.messagingengine.com> <00BCA451-8DFD-416B-B39F-2FCCB0A8BC28@bway.net> Message-ID: <20171026215309.GT30348@ayvali.org> * Isaac (.ike) Levy [2017-10-20 12:41:56-0400]: > OmniGraffle, in my NYC*BUG talk- I sang sad songs about how I miss it. > But hey- there's other ways to make structured graphs and draw- from > LibreOffice, to GraphVis, to Inkscape plus plenty of other tools Had to to do network diagrams for work recently. draw.io came in handy. But I found out a short time later that LibreOffice plus some modern stencils (https://extensions.libreoffice.org/extensions/vrt-network-equipment was the site cited) is actually the best modern open-source tool for the job. Just fyi. Thomas From jkeenan at pobox.com Sat Oct 28 20:46:01 2017 From: jkeenan at pobox.com (James E Keenan) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2017 20:46:01 -0400 Subject: [talk] Wed Nov 01: Social meeting at Suspenders Message-ID: Since it appears that we do not have a technical meeting scheduled for the first Wednesday in November, let's have an unsanctioned, strictly unofficial social meeting at our usual haunt. Suspenders 108 Greenwich St north of Rector St (trains 1, R, W) around 6:30 pm on Wednesday November 1 for food and beverage. No need to RSVP, but if you like ping me off list or on freenode #nycbug. Beer will be purchased for anyone who can diagnose a situation where a configuration program I use fails on FreeBSD when BSD make is used but succeeds where GNU make is. Jim Keenan (IRC: kid51) From _ at thomaslevine.com Sun Oct 29 08:46:14 2017 From: _ at thomaslevine.com (Thomas Levine) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 12:46:14 +0000 Subject: [talk] Wed Nov 01: Social meeting at Suspenders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20171029124616.608457F91F@mailuser.nyi.internal> Perhaps the succesful analyst will be interested in my nascient plan to organize a make symposuium next year in the Skopje, capital of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. I think it would be nice to have at least one talk about portable makefiles, one talk about BSD make, one talk about GNU make or autotools, and one talk about plan 9 mk. From george at ceetonetechnology.com Sun Oct 29 15:06:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 19:06:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] Wed Nov 01: Social meeting at Suspenders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1b871577-55b1-999c-bf36-e3c31c49155d@ceetonetechnology.com> James E Keenan: > Since it appears that we do not have a technical meeting scheduled for > the first Wednesday in November, let's have an unsanctioned, strictly > unofficial social meeting at our usual haunt. Objection! ;) Sure... cool. Good. Yes, everyone should go if they can. I'll even add to an announce@ > > Suspenders > 108 Greenwich St > north of Rector St (trains 1, R, W) > > around 6:30 pm on Wednesday November 1 for food and beverage. > > No need to RSVP, but if you like ping me off list or on freenode #nycbug. > This type of initiative should be the norm, not the exception. > Beer will be purchased for anyone who can diagnose a situation where a > configuration program I use fails on FreeBSD when BSD make is used but > succeeds where GNU make is. Post it! On a related note, we have a bunch of speakers and topics, but our next room reservation is for January. admin@ needs to be a bit more proactive is sorting out room reservations early (hint, hint) g From viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com Sun Oct 29 21:16:36 2017 From: viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com (Robert Menes) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:16:36 -0400 Subject: [talk] Wed Nov 01: Social meeting at Suspenders In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should be able to make it. If not, there's always December. --Robert On Oct 28, 2017 21:02, "James E Keenan" wrote: > Since it appears that we do not have a technical meeting scheduled for the > first Wednesday in November, let's have an unsanctioned, strictly > unofficial social meeting at our usual haunt. > > Suspenders > 108 Greenwich St > north of Rector St (trains 1, R, W) > > around 6:30 pm on Wednesday November 1 for food and beverage. > > No need to RSVP, but if you like ping me off list or on freenode #nycbug. > > Beer will be purchased for anyone who can diagnose a situation where a > configuration program I use fails on FreeBSD when BSD make is used but > succeeds where GNU make is. > > Jim Keenan > (IRC: kid51) > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From george at ceetonetechnology.com Mon Oct 30 11:33:00 2017 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:33:00 +0000 Subject: [talk] NYC*BUG Upcoming Message-ID: <56e29f54-1f8c-15aa-e5c0-ea991b470d6b@ceetonetechnology.com> The next planned meeting is January 3, and we'll be back monthly for the new year with a bunch of great meeting topics. Details coming soon. This Wednesday some people are informally getting together at Suspenders at 108 Greenwich Street at 630 PM to chat. The BSDCan 2018 web site is now up at https://www.bsdcan.org/2018/ and the call for papers opens on December 1. From bcallah at devio.us Mon Oct 30 13:48:09 2017 From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:48:09 -0400 Subject: [talk] The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again Message-ID: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> Hello all -- It has recently come to my attention that I desperately need a new laptop. Recently, I made a port of the SNOBOL4 languages (because hey, there's an implementation being maintained, and I'm sure people can use it) and as part of the build process, the software runs some benchmarks and asks you to submit the benchmark output via email. So I did, and come to find out I had the lowest benchmark numbers ever received from an i386 or amd64 machine. So yay, I'm the World Record Holder for slowest laptop. Let's fix that. What are your recommendations? I do have some hard requirements: the GPU needs to support close to the newest OpenGL versions. The one I have now only does OpenGL 1, and that means some ports I want to finish I can't because I have no idea if they work or not because the GPU can't display them! Also needs to be cheap, because I'm a broke grad student. CPU power I'm more meh on. I realize that faster CPU means less time waiting for compiles but clearly I've gotten along just fine all these years... It should also be noted to those who know the laptop personally, yes, I'm talking about the one with the handle on it. It needs to go. Thanks! ~Brian From okan at demirmen.com Mon Oct 30 15:43:22 2017 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:43:22 -0400 Subject: [talk] The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again In-Reply-To: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> References: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Brian Callahan wrote: > Hello all -- > > It has recently come to my attention that I desperately need a new laptop. > Recently, I made a port of the SNOBOL4 languages (because hey, there's an > implementation being maintained, and I'm sure people can use it) and as > part of the build process, the software runs some benchmarks and asks you > to submit the benchmark output via email. So I did, and come to find out I > had the lowest benchmark numbers ever received from an i386 or amd64 > machine. So yay, I'm the World Record Holder for slowest laptop. Let's fix > that. > > What are your recommendations? I do have some hard requirements: the GPU > needs to support close to the newest OpenGL versions. The one I have now > only does OpenGL 1, and that means some ports I want to finish I can't > because I have no idea if they work or not because the GPU can't display > them! > > Also needs to be cheap, because I'm a broke grad student. CPU power I'm > more meh on. I realize that faster CPU means less time waiting for compiles > but clearly I've gotten along just fine all these years... > > It should also be noted to those who know the laptop personally, yes, I'm > talking about the one with the handle on it. It needs to go. > > Thanks! > > ~Brian > ?Have you considered the x230? - it can be found fairly inexpensively.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thornton.richard at gmail.com Mon Oct 30 15:54:22 2017 From: thornton.richard at gmail.com (Richard Thornton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:54:22 -0400 Subject: [talk] The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again In-Reply-To: References: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> Message-ID: Checkout. https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-X230-Laptop-Ultraportable/dp/B00L5WMYDS On Oct 30, 2017 3:43 PM, "Okan Demirmen" wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Brian Callahan wrote: > >> Hello all -- >> >> It has recently come to my attention that I desperately need a new >> laptop. Recently, I made a port of the SNOBOL4 languages (because hey, >> there's an implementation being maintained, and I'm sure people can use it) >> and as part of the build process, the software runs some benchmarks and >> asks you to submit the benchmark output via email. So I did, and come to >> find out I had the lowest benchmark numbers ever received from an i386 or >> amd64 machine. So yay, I'm the World Record Holder for slowest laptop. >> Let's fix that. >> >> What are your recommendations? I do have some hard requirements: the GPU >> needs to support close to the newest OpenGL versions. The one I have now >> only does OpenGL 1, and that means some ports I want to finish I can't >> because I have no idea if they work or not because the GPU can't display >> them! >> >> Also needs to be cheap, because I'm a broke grad student. CPU power I'm >> more meh on. I realize that faster CPU means less time waiting for compiles >> but clearly I've gotten along just fine all these years... >> >> It should also be noted to those who know the laptop personally, yes, I'm >> talking about the one with the handle on it. It needs to go. >> >> Thanks! >> >> ~Brian >> > > ?Have you considered the x230? - it can be found fairly inexpensively.? > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ike at blackskyresearch.net Mon Oct 30 17:03:40 2017 From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:03:40 -0400 Subject: [talk] The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again In-Reply-To: References: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> Message-ID: <1509397420.3794722.1156063256.25584E74@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017, at 03:54 PM, Richard Thornton wrote: > Checkout. > https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Thinkpad-X230-Laptop-Ultraportable/dp/B00L5WMYDS > > On Oct 30, 2017 3:43 PM, "Okan Demirmen" wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Brian Callahan wrote: > > > >> Hello all -- > >> > >> It has recently come to my attention that I desperately need a new > >> laptop. Recently, I made a port of the SNOBOL4 languages (because hey, > >> there's an implementation being maintained, and I'm sure people can use it) > >> and as part of the build process, the software runs some benchmarks and > >> asks you to submit the benchmark output via email. So I did, and come to > >> find out I had the lowest benchmark numbers ever received from an i386 or > >> amd64 machine. So yay, I'm the World Record Holder for slowest laptop. > >> Let's fix that. > >> > >> What are your recommendations? I do have some hard requirements: the GPU > >> needs to support close to the newest OpenGL versions. The one I have now > >> only does OpenGL 1, and that means some ports I want to finish I can't > >> because I have no idea if they work or not because the GPU can't display > >> them! > >> > >> Also needs to be cheap, because I'm a broke grad student. CPU power I'm > >> more meh on. I realize that faster CPU means less time waiting for compiles > >> but clearly I've gotten along just fine all these years... > >> > >> It should also be noted to those who know the laptop personally, yes, I'm > >> talking about the one with the handle on it. It needs to go. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> ~Brian > >> > > > > ?Have you considered the x230? - it can be found fairly inexpensively.? I'd also sortof recommend a used/refurb x230 - the price is right- except for one thing: IMHO the display really blows. Dim, not very good resolution, and for better and worse quite directional viewing (annoys me- but nice on a plane/train/cafe against shoulder-surfers). Caveat to that statement, I've been corrupted by shiny retina displays on work laptops. Bios: oldschool. Wifi annoy: proprietary Lenovo, bios won't recognize other cards. I used a "USB nub" for some years, until OpenBSD put the drivers into ports, (and I use FreeBSD now and that works [via binary blob, natch]). Otherwise, hardware as expected AOK cool. Here's a dmesg, http://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=2812 Best, .ike From sjt.kar at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 10:03:40 2017 From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit K M) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 19:33:40 +0530 Subject: [talk] Fwd: The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again In-Reply-To: References: <48eb54b1-4cd8-8d12-ae94-28c3021a49fd@devio.us> Message-ID: +talk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sujit K M Date: Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [talk] The OpenBSD Laptop Thread, again To: Brian Callahan > What are your recommendations? I do have some hard requirements: the GPU > needs to support close to the newest OpenGL versions. The one I have now I don't know the exact details. But T450 was supposed to be the Ideal Developer machines. But no longer available. Some alternates are given below. But are costly. https://www.slant.co/options/14449/alternatives/~lenovo-thinkpad-t450-14-alternatives The other ones I used was the were Dell Inspirion ones where you could have quad core i3 with decent graphics. But again Costly. -- -- Sujit K M blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/) From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com Tue Oct 31 13:42:28 2017 From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:42:28 -0400 Subject: [talk] NYC*BUG Upcoming In-Reply-To: <56e29f54-1f8c-15aa-e5c0-ea991b470d6b@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <56e29f54-1f8c-15aa-e5c0-ea991b470d6b@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: <55572317-017D-4B78-B785-EB542B0D28C3@gmail.com> If anyone has any extra NYCBUG stickers from the last con, could you bring a few please? TIA, Patrick > On Oct 30, 2017, at 11:33 AM, George Rosamond wrote: > > The next planned meeting is January 3, and we'll be back monthly for the > new year with a bunch of great meeting topics. Details coming soon. > > This Wednesday some people are informally getting together at Suspenders > at 108 Greenwich Street at 630 PM to chat. > > The BSDCan 2018 web site is now up at https://www.bsdcan.org/2018/ and > the call for papers opens on December 1. > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk