From mikel.king Fri Oct 1 06:33:54 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:33:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: reverse DNS In-Reply-To: <20040930173415.7b3ab50b@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20040930173415.7b3ab50b@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <415D3292.4000603@ocsny.com> Asked them to swipe the block to your name servers, which technically they are supposed to do, but most isp just don't bother unless the client explicitly requests is. This is similar to updating your NIC record when transfering from one set of primary nameservers to another. If they have their own block of ips assigned to them by arin then they are required to do this anyway, but since arin lacks the resources to check everyone it usually slides. oh and sorry bout the top post but cell phones only pull a little bit of the message at a time, and cell phone b/w = $. michael wrote: >Sorry, this is off-topic, but I figured someone would know.. > >Our ISP has assigned us a block of IP's. >I need reverse DNS calls to be resolved by our DNS server. >What are the industry key words to use so they understand the request >the first time? > >Thanks in advance, >Michael > > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com t: 212.727.2100x132 +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ From george Fri Oct 1 10:53:49 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:53:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: reverse DNS In-Reply-To: <20040930173415.7b3ab50b@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20040930173415.7b3ab50b@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <20041001145349.GE8456@trot.local> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 05:34:15PM -0400, michael wrote: >Sorry, this is off-topic, but I figured someone would know.. > >Our ISP has assigned us a block of IP's. >I need reverse DNS calls to be resolved by our DNS server. >What are the industry key words to use so they understand the request >the first time? wrote one of those yesterday, for this I had no questions asked. Please deligate ptr records to 66.250.170.210 and 65.84.93.74 for 69.31.83.171 and 66.250.170.208-215 (I think this is everything you need if you run bind on class c) $ORIGIN 170.250.66.in-addr.arpa. $GENERATE 208-215 $ NS $ $GENERATE 208-215 $ NS $ $GENERATE 208-215 $ A 66.250.170.210 $GENERATE 208-215 $ A 65.84.93.74 $ORIGIN 83.31.69.in-addr.arpa. 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa NS 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa NS 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa A 66.250.170.210 171.83.31.69.in-addr.arpa A 65.84.93.74 and as for being OT, I don't think so. my feeling is dns (and good names) is the cornerstone of a good installation. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From dlavigne6 Fri Oct 1 10:59:53 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] IMPORTANT! shmoocon DC, 2005 In-Reply-To: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Security folks know, but if you don't know who the shmoo group is, google > them asap and find out. > > Well, after their countless talks at Security Conferences, and many amazing > tool releases, they are putting on a Proper East Coast Hacker Con, > > http://www.shmoocon.org/cfp.html > > Tomorrow is the last day of Early Registration- so REGISTER NOW, we'll figure > out a NYCBUG convoy to DC later! > > THIS PROMISES TO BE AWESOME. This sounds great. Anyone else thinking of going? Dru From lists Fri Oct 1 14:31:27 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:31:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly Message-ID: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> Begin forwarded message: Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 11:25:21 -0700 Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 1 ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members October 1, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop -XML in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition -Adobe InDesign CS One-on-One -Adobe Encore DVD: In the Studio -Building the Perfect PC -Head First Servlets & JSP -Java Threads, 3rd Edition ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Peter Morville ("Information Architecture for the World Wide Web") Information Architecture & Findability Seminar, San Francisco, CA--October 25 -Dru Lavigne ("BSD Hacks"), EuroBSDCon, Karlsruhe, Germany-- October 27-November 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, Santa Clara, CA--October 25-28 -Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Now Distributes SitePoint Web Development Books -Hacking PayPal -The New Bloglines Web Services -O'Reilly's New Magazine for Technology Projects--"Make" -Move Beyond Amateur Filmmaking -O'Reilly Digital Media Professionals Directory -Open Source Content Management with Plone -FreeBSD Bag of Tricks -Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses -Introduction to Quartz 2D for QuickDraw Programmers -Top Ten Tips for Mac OS X Con 2004 -Troubleshooting Printer Problems -Master Pages in ASP.NET -Reporting Application Errors by Email -Groovy, Java's New Scripting Language ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html Don't forget, you can receive 20% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone (800-998-9938). http://www.oreilly.com/ ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single U.S. address. This offer applies to U.S. delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007523 "Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop" is the ideal guide to JDS: it's clear and direct, but loaded with insights from authors who have spent time working with, supporting, and enhancing the system. The book carefully covers such housekeeping chores as setting up networking, updates, and backups. It enters into great depth concerning the key productivity tools every user needs: email, web browsing, instant messaging, word processing, spreadsheets, and slide presentations. And it includes chapters and appendices on useful tools and system add-ons. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jds/ Chapter 4, "JDS Networking," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jds/chapter/index.html ***XML in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007647 There's a lot to know about XML, and it's constantly evolving. But you don't need to commit every syntax, API, or XSLT transformation to memory; you only need to know where to find it. This powerful new edition is the comprehensive XML reference. Serious users of XML will find coverage on just about everything they need, from fundamental syntax rules, to details of DTD and XML Schema creation, to XSLT transformations, to APIs used for processing XML documents. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlnut3/ Chapter 9, "XPath," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xmlnut3/chapter/index.html ***Adobe InDesign CS One-on-One Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007361 Adobe InDesign is widely regarded as the page layout/publishing program for the new millennium. In this book, Adobe-certified expert Deke McClelland guides you, at your own pace, through twelve step-by-step lessons that are packed with entertaining and informative real-world projects. There are more than 500 full-color photos, diagrams, and screen shots, as well as tips and tricks for tapping into InDesign's most powerful capabilities. Also included are two hours of video instruction on CD that will help you master fundamental and advanced concepts, best practices, and techniques. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobeindesign/ ***Adobe Encore DVD: In the Studio Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006004 If you're looking for a stimulating way to master Adobe Encore DVD and fine-tune your moviemaking skills, here it is. This full-color tutorial will help you push the limits of Adobe Encore DVD by helping you create highly imaginative designs and projects. Designed for Adobe Creative Suite developers and filmmakers, this book combines practical learning materials and project-based lessons. With this comprehensive tutorial, you'll be able to quickly develop professional-looking DVDs studded with special effects worthy of a Hollywood studio. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobedvd/ Chapter 2, "Deconstructing DVDs," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobedvd/chapter/ch02.pdf ***Building the Perfect PC Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596006632 For many computer users, a ready-made system is about as satisfying as a frozen microwave dinner: sure, it works, but it's not exactly what you need or want. Don't accept the assortment of components bundled for your price point; build your own PC. With straightforward language, clear end-to-end instructions, and extensive illustrations, this book covers a variety of complete systems and their components. Regardless of your experience, you can take control and create your ideal machine. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildpc/ Chapter 1, "Fundamentals," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildpc/chapter/index.html ***Head First Servlets & JSP Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596005407 "Head First Servlets & JSP" will help you truly understand the latest version, J2EE 1.4, of Servlets and JSP. You'll learn how to write Servlets and JSPs, what makes the Container tick, how to use the new JSP Expression Language (EL), and even some server-side design patterns. Written by the creators of the Sun Certified Web Component Developer (SCWCD) 1.4 exam, this book will help you pass the exam, talk about Struts at dinner parties, and put Servlets and JSP to work right away. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/headservletsjsp/ ***Java Threads, 3rd Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007825 The new edition of this classic book shows you how to take full advantage of Java's threading facilities, and it brings you up to date with the significant changes in Java 2 Standard Edition version 5.0 (J2SE 5.0). The book incorporates the concurrency utilities from java.util.concurrent, and new chapters cover thread performance, using threads with Swing, threads and Collection classes, thread pools, and threads and I/O. Get a thorough, step-by-step approach to threads programming. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jthreads3/ Chapter 5, "Minimal Synchronization Techniques," is available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jthreads3/chapter/index.html ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Peter Morville ("Information Architecture for the World Wide Web"), Information Architecture & Findability Seminar, San Francisco, CA--October 25 Peter leads a new full-day seminar on information architecture from top to bottom, explaining how search and navigation systems can be designed to support and shape user behavior. http://semanticstudios.com/presentations/iaf/ ***Dru Lavigne ("BSD Hacks"), EuroBSDCon, Karlsruhe, Germany-- October 27-November 2 Dru discusses "But I'm not a developer...how can I contribute to open source?" http://2004.eurobsdcon.org/ ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference, Santa Clara, CA--October 25-28 This conference brings together what you need to know and what you want to experience. You'll learn how to solve the day to day problems of connected computing, leverage the power of scripting, improve the performance of your network, and protect your systems from intrusion. You'll also get up to speed on grid computing, home automation, streaming media, how to build your own TV studio, and much more. Use code DSUG when you register and receive 20% off conference pricing. To register, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/macosx2004/create/ord_mac04 O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference October 25-28, 2004 Westin Santa Clara, Santa Clara, CA http://conferences.oreilly.com/macosxcon/ ***Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 >From embedded solutions to web-commerce and critical business applications, MySQL is everywhere--with more than five million active installations worldwide. To introduce new users to MySQL and help developers and IT professionals keep pace with the latest advancements, MySQL AB has teamed up with O'Reilly Media, Inc. to co-present the third annual MySQL Users Conference, scheduled for April 18-21, 2005, in Santa Clara, CA. For complete conference details visit: http://www.mysqluc.com Visit the submissions page for all the details on tracks and proposal guidelines--this year's theme is "MySQL Everywhere." Proposals are due no later than November 1, 2004. http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/mysqluc2005/create/e_sess ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***O'Reilly Now Distributes SitePoint Web Development Books We're now the exclusive distributor of SitePoint Pty. Ltd.'s books in North America, launching SitePoint books into the retail channel, providing direct sales, warehousing and shipping, plus direct marketing and PR support. Founded by Matt Mickiewicz and Mark Harbottle, SitePoint has enjoyed great success as one of the first online resources for web developers and designers. Today, 1.8 million visitors a month peruse their forums, articles, and blogs. The company launched their book publishing program in September 2001, has six popular titles in print, and is planning to double the number of in-print titles in the coming year. SitePoint books will be available in North American bookstores as early as October 2004. For a list of current and upcoming books, see: http://sitepoint.oreilly.com/ SitePoint's "Around the World" competition asked SitePoint book customers to submit photos of themselves with their favourite SitePoint book in exotic locales, with famous people or local landmarks. The top of Mt. Fuji, Acropolis, Equator, set of NBC News, and the Austrian Alps are just a few of the locations that SitePoint customers took pictures of with their books in order for a chance to win an Apple iPod. To view entries and winners, go to: http://www.sitepoint.com/competition/ipod_competition/ipod_win_21-09-04.php ***Hacking PayPal Here are two hacks designed to make PayPal more customer-friendly, profitable, and accountable, plus an additional hack to catch Instant Payment Notification (IPN) system errors. Get all the tools and details you need to make PayPal more profitable, more flexible, and more convenient from "PayPal Hacks." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/excerpt/paypalhacks_chap1/index.html ***The New Bloglines Web Services Marc Hedlund takes a look at the new Bloglines Web Services APIs and their effect on the RSS/Atom landscape, and presents a complete, three-pane desktop RSS/Atom reader written in just 150 lines of code with the Groovy programming language. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/09/28/bloglines.html ***O'Reilly's New Magazine for Technology Projects--"Make" "Make" is due out in January 2005, is loaded with exciting projects that help you make the most of your technology at home and away from home. http://make.oreilly.com We've received many suggestions about how we can turn "Make" into a great magazine. But there's still time for you to give us your input. Here are some ways you can join us in the creation of this magazine: 1. The "Make" Workshop--Imagine somebody took all your tools away and handed you a $100 gift certificate that you could spend on hardware at your local big box hardware store. What are the essential things you'd buy? Now, up the price to $300--what would you outfit your workshop with? How about $750? 2. What Are You Using These Days?--In each issue we'll run reviews of stuff. We're interested in hearing about the things you already use and love. Tell us about your favorite new (or old!) tool, magazine, book, instructional video, gadget, web site, etc. in a 300-word email. If we decide to run it, we'll pay you. 3. Projects--Do you have an idea for a technology-related project? It doesn't matter if it's large or small. Tell us about it. If we like it, we'll ask you to write it. You can send email suggestions to marsee at oreilly.com and please include "Make Magazine" in the subject line field. --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Move Beyond Amateur Filmmaking The jump from casual video recording to professional filmmaking requires more steps than many artists realize. Sonoma County filmmaker Susan Boyer walks you through the paces in this illuminating article. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2004/09/29/filmmaking.html ***O'Reilly Digital Media Professionals Directory Check out our new nationwide directory of photographers, musicians, and filmmakers. Here's where you can browse our directory, find and rate professionals, and enter your own listings. You must be logged in with your O'Reilly account to create or rate listings. http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/dir/index.csp --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Open Source Content Management with Plone Publishing web sites is easy for geeks. When you're tired of your users asking you to make tiny changes that they could easily handle themselves, it's time to consider a content management system (CMS). If you're a Python or Zope fan, you may have heard of Plone, a powerful and easy-to-use CMS. If not, let Brad Bollenbach convince you to give it a try. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2004/09/23/plone_features.html ***FreeBSD Bag of Tricks Software junkies like Dru Lavigne always file away interesting new programs for their bag of tricks. In this installment of FreeBSD Basics, Dru demonstrates how to use usermin for easy webmail and reveals the convenience and glory of TheOpenCD. http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/09/24/FreeBSD_Basics.html ***Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses O'Reilly is offering a 50% discount on the Linux/Unix Certification Series from their O'Reilly Learning Lab. Save nearly $1000 on these online courses--and earn a University of Illinois System Administration Certificate. Every class includes compelling, hands-on content, root access to a Linux server, an online coach, and a free O'Reilly book. Use the code ORALL1 to get your 50% discount. To enroll for the Learning Lab Linux/Unix Certification Series go to: http://oreilly.useractive.com/linuxa/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Introduction to Quartz 2D for QuickDraw Programmers Apple is moving from QuickDraw to Quartz for the handling of 2D graphics in Mac OS X. Scott Thompson introduces you to the concepts behind Quartz 2D, and explains how to make the transition from QuickDraw. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/09/28/quartz.html ***Top Ten Tips for Mac OS X Con 2004 The upcoming O'Reilly Mac conference will be different than your typical tech gathering--requiring that you prepare differently, too. Program chair Derrick Story shares his top ten "getting ready" tips for this innovative event. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/09/24/conference_tips.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Troubleshooting Printer Problems Not being able to print is rather annoying, for both users and the administrators who come to their aid. Mitch Tulloch shows you how to quickly troubleshoot and solve printing problems. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/09/28/printer_problems.html ***Master Pages in ASP.NET On many web sites, it is important to achieve a consistent "look and feel" as the user moves from page to page. While this was possible with .NET 1.1, it was difficult and required both programmer and designer discipline. ASP.NET 2.0 makes this far easier with the creation of master pages. Jesse Liberty shows you how master pages work in ASP.NET 2.0. http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2004/09/27/libertyonwhidbey.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Reporting Application Errors by Email Even if your application logs an error to a local file, the developer doesn't know there's a problem until a user notices it and sends the log file back. It can be more useful for apps to email their own error messages back. And as Sean C. Sullivan explains, it's not hard to do with either log4j or java.util.logging. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/09/29/smtp-logging.html ***Groovy, Java's New Scripting Language When experienced Java developers hear about Groovy, their first reaction is often, "Oh, no, not another scripting language for Java." Ian Darwin had the same reaction, until he took a good look at Groovy. Ian is the author of "Java Cookbook, 2nd Edition." http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/09/29/groovy.html ================================================ O'Reilly User Group Wiki ================================================ Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups across the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time-- -- --- From sunny-ml Fri Oct 1 14:37:16 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:37:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly In-Reply-To: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Friday 01 October 2004 14:31, michael wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > New Releases > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596007523 amazing, they managed to take the shittiest distro on the planet and write a book about it .... truly amazing .... I'm starting to disbelieve the statement of "there isn't enough market for BSD books" Sunny Dubey From lists Fri Oct 1 15:19:24 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:19:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly In-Reply-To: <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:37:16 -0400 Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Friday 01 October 2004 14:31, michael wrote: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > New Releases > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop > > Publisher: O'Reilly > > ISBN: 0596007523 > > amazing, they managed to take the shittiest distro on the planet and > write a book about it .... truly amazing .... > > I'm starting to disbelieve the statement of "there isn't enough market > for BSD books" > > Sunny Dubey "market" is the key word. Can you imagine some marketing guy talking really fast, stringing together buzzwords, showing his pearly whites? He knows what is hip. He knows what is flashy. He knows the huddled masses. He knows his market. He knows what sells. He does NOT have to know the technology. Right or wrong... Linux sells. Even the shittiest ones.. The public is gobbling it up right now. BSD does not interest him. He sees BSD is boring, backwater, and low market value. There is no sizzle... no sales... no end-of-year bonus. Michael -- --- From george Fri Oct 1 15:27:51 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:27:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly In-Reply-To: <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: On Oct 1, 2004, at 3:19 PM, michael wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:37:16 -0400 > Sunny Dubey wrote: > >> On Friday 01 October 2004 14:31, michael wrote: >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> New Releases >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop >>> Publisher: O'Reilly >>> ISBN: 0596007523 >> >> amazing, they managed to take the shittiest distro on the planet and >> write a book about it .... truly amazing .... >> >> I'm starting to disbelieve the statement of "there isn't enough market >> for BSD books" >> >> Sunny Dubey > > > "market" is the key word. > > Can you imagine some marketing guy talking really fast, stringing > together buzzwords, showing his pearly whites? He knows what is hip. > He knows what is flashy. He knows the huddled masses. He knows his > market. He knows what sells. He does NOT have to know the technology. > > Right or wrong... Linux sells. Even the shittiest ones.. The public is > gobbling it up right now. > > BSD does not interest him. He sees BSD is boring, backwater, and low > market value. There is no sizzle... no sales... no end-of-year bonus. > And let's reiterate Ike's point. . . the man pages and standard documentation are way too good. . . g From dlavigne6 Fri Oct 1 16:04:41 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly In-Reply-To: <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <20041001155123.H581@dru.domain.org> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, michael wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:37:16 -0400 > Sunny Dubey wrote: > >> On Friday 01 October 2004 14:31, michael wrote: >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> New Releases >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ***Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop >>> Publisher: O'Reilly >>> ISBN: 0596007523 >> >> amazing, they managed to take the shittiest distro on the planet and >> write a book about it .... truly amazing .... >> >> I'm starting to disbelieve the statement of "there isn't enough market >> for BSD books" >> >> Sunny Dubey > > > "market" is the key word. > > Can you imagine some marketing guy talking really fast, stringing > together buzzwords, showing his pearly whites? He knows what is hip. > He knows what is flashy. He knows the huddled masses. He knows his > market. He knows what sells. He does NOT have to know the technology. > > Right or wrong... Linux sells. Even the shittiest ones.. The public is > gobbling it up right now. > > BSD does not interest him. He sees BSD is boring, backwater, and low > market value. There is no sizzle... no sales... no end-of-year bonus. That being said, we're starting to see more media pieces showing that Linux isn't quite as hip as it was a few years ago. There are more pieces showing migrations _away_ from Linux and instability issues and misgivings about the GPL. BSD advocacy should be taking advantage of this... Speaking of advocacy, I posted a message requesting pointers to advocacy materials for an Open Source booth and a BSD talk to all 3 BSD mailing lists. My results: 1 request that I scope out donations for a Canadian mirror and a private email asking me why I posted to the OpenBSD list. I'd say that BSD advocacy has a helluva long way to go. Dru From tux Fri Oct 1 18:17:12 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:17:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BYCBUG Banner Message-ID: <017d01c4a804$6877e540$0500a8c0@apollo> http://www.penguinnetwerx.net/bugpics/ It doesn't have the actual logo, but I think it'll do for our purposes... -Kevin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041001/b7c67c0c/attachment.bin From george Fri Oct 1 19:08:00 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:08:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BYCBUG Banner In-Reply-To: <017d01c4a804$6877e540$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <017d01c4a804$6877e540$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: On Oct 1, 2004, at 6:17 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > http://www.penguinnetwerx.net/bugpics/ > > It doesn't have the actual logo, but I think it'll do for our > purposes... > Kick ass job. . .looks great. g From george Fri Oct 1 23:56:16 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:56:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly In-Reply-To: <20041001155123.H581@dru.domain.org> References: <20041001143127.7b9cb0b8@delinux.abwatley.com> <200410011437.16493.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041001151924.3ae0df15@delinux.abwatley.com> <20041001155123.H581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <0281BF68-1427-11D9-A9E9-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 1, 2004, at 4:04 PM, Dru wrote: >> BSD does not interest him. He sees BSD is boring, backwater, and low >> market value. There is no sizzle... no sales... no end-of-year bonus. > > > That being said, we're starting to see more media pieces showing that > Linux > isn't quite as hip as it was a few years ago. There are more pieces > showing migrations _away_ from Linux and instability issues and > misgivings about the GPL. BSD advocacy should be taking advantage of > this... But from what I see, the attacks on Linux are about it being open source, and the attacks on the GPL are also cloaked attacks on open source. Yes, maybe an opening for BSD and the license, but we are also targeted by attacks on open source. It's not just about MS happening to prefer the BSDs and license to Linux. When SCO started its attack on Linux, *some* BSD people argued this was a great chance for "us," seeing that BSD was retarded by the early 90's court cases. . .Understood notion, but dead wrong. It didn't take long for Darl to mention us too. When Linux is attacked as open source, we stand with it. When its sloppy model of development is in question, we concur, IMHO. > Speaking of advocacy, I posted a message requesting pointers to > advocacy materials for an Open Source booth and a BSD talk to all 3 > BSD mailing lists. > My results: 1 request that I scope out donations for a Canadian mirror > and a private email asking me why I posted to the OpenBSD list. I'd > say that BSD advocacy has a helluva long way to go. Oh, surprise. . . There's a core concerned about general *BSD advocacy. . .we have to deal from there. Dru: when did you notice the scenery? ;-) g From mspitze1 Sat Oct 2 04:14:17 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 04:14:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] IMPORTANT! shmoocon DC, 2005 In-Reply-To: <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> References: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041002041417.3426af4d@bogomips.optonline.net> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Dru wrote: > > > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Security folks know, but if you don't know who the shmoo group is, > > google them asap and find out. > > > > Well, after their countless talks at Security Conferences, and many > > amazing tool releases, they are putting on a Proper East Coast > > Hacker Con, > > > > http://www.shmoocon.org/cfp.html > > > > Tomorrow is the last day of Early Registration- so REGISTER NOW, > > we'll figure out a NYCBUG convoy to DC later! > > > > THIS PROMISES TO BE AWESOME. > > > This sounds great. Anyone else thinking of going? yup marc > > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From pete Sat Oct 2 19:17:55 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 18:17:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD get together in queens In-Reply-To: References: <20040929234456.RNNH22385.out006.verizon.net@STACY> <36B55FA4-1276-11D9-8F8B-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20040929220452.4e8c67c0@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <415F3723.10805@nomadlogic.org> Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > >> or if you are on Adkins whisky. Now on to a serious note we have >> Manhattan covered and now Queens just 3 more burrows to go. > > > ...and Jersey. > ...and LA ;) -p -- ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From louis Sat Oct 2 18:38:02 2004 From: louis (Louis Bertrand) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 18:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDing windows In-Reply-To: <20040930050347.GC16032@trot.local> References: <20040929201711.GA11952@trot.local> <003301c4a69b$eccbfdf0$0500a8c0@apollo> <20040930050347.GC16032@trot.local> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, George Georgalis wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 11:16:28PM -0400, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >: Do I need to create a bootable dos cdrom for this application or are > >: there unix tools to resize a fat32 partition? Another way? Ideally I'd > >: like to resize the dd image of the windows partition. > > > >It's not UNIX, but you can create a bootable Linux CD that has QtParted, > >among others, included on the CD: > >http://www.sysresccd.org/systools.en.php > > > >A quote from the SystemRescueCD website: > > > >"QtParted and PartGui: This is the most interesting feature of this CDRom. > >You can use these two graphical partition tools without XFree86 (they work > >with QtEmbedded). They can be considered as the best free PartitionMagic > >clones for Linux. They allow you to see a chart of your hard disk, create, > >format, delete, and modify partitions. You must start with the Frame Buffer > >in order for these utilities to work well. PartGui is not developed anymore, > >then QtParted is the best choice." > > > >I didn't find anything outside of using Linux for this from Google, but that > >doesn't mean there isn't anything out there... > > > > Wow, that's great.... now I don't have to keep different size base > install dd images to rsync with backups via loopback, before I write the > partition, partition table and bootloader back to disk! all I need is > one small dd image and compressed archives to rsync in! If the OS didn't > suck eggs to begin with... Woopie, now I can replace a corrupt install > quickly. > > Seriously, thanks. > > See also "Ghost for Unix" by Hubert Feyrer http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ Ciao --Louis From vze48nnt Sat Oct 2 19:52:01 2004 From: vze48nnt (Robert Kiefer) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:52:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Data Recovery options? Message-ID: <20041002235217.YNQL26805.out003.verizon.net@celeron600> Hi, I've got a 30GB IDE drive (with about 28GB of data) that is DOA. Won't spin up at all. Would anyone on this list have any data recovery service recommendations or advice? This isn't a client's HD, it's personal, so price is certainly a factor here. :) I've gotten wildly disparate quotes from $200 to allmost $2000. Any advice would be appreciated, and thanks in advance. - Robert From george Sat Oct 2 19:58:21 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:58:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDing windows In-Reply-To: References: <20040929201711.GA11952@trot.local> <003301c4a69b$eccbfdf0$0500a8c0@apollo> <20040930050347.GC16032@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041002235821.GA26185@trot.local> On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 06:38:02PM -0400, Louis Bertrand wrote: > >See also "Ghost for Unix" by Hubert Feyrer >http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ I'd seen that but I never saw an advantage over hand rolled solutions. Off list I got pointed to SystemRescueCd, a Linux based distro, and two key programs on it: # QtParted is a Partition Magic clone for Linux. # Partimage is a Ghost/Drive-image clone for Linux QtParted worked perfect, I'll try Partimage sometime which I expect much better than dd because it only transfers the blocks that are in use by the FS, it also incorporates networking, ssl and compression. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From bob Sat Oct 2 20:10:30 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 20:10:30 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] IMPORTANT! shmoocon DC, 2005 In-Reply-To: <20041002041417.3426af4d@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> <20041002041417.3426af4d@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2004, at 4:14 AM, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0400 (EDT) > Dru wrote: > >> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: >> >>> Security folks know, but if you don't know who the shmoo group is, >>> google them asap and find out. >>> >>> Well, after their countless talks at Security Conferences, and many >>> amazing tool releases, they are putting on a Proper East Coast >>> Hacker Con, >>> >>> http://www.shmoocon.org/cfp.html >>> >>> Tomorrow is the last day of Early Registration- so REGISTER NOW, >>> we'll figure out a NYCBUG convoy to DC later! >>> >>> THIS PROMISES TO BE AWESOME. >> >> >> This sounds great. Anyone else thinking of going? I'm there also (so that's at least three NYCBuggers: Ike, Marc, and me) -bob From tux Sat Oct 2 21:34:22 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:34:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Data Recovery options? References: <20041002235217.YNQL26805.out003.verizon.net@celeron600> Message-ID: <002b01c4a8e9$1d38e210$0500a8c0@apollo> : This isn't a client's HD, it's personal, so price is certainly a : factor : here. :) I've gotten wildly disparate quotes from $200 to allmost : $2000. I do data recovery, but only on drives that are able to spin up. I've learned a few tricks over the years, and oddly, one thing I've had great luck with is something that sounds really weird - wrap the drive in a static bag, then again with seran wrap, then stick it in the freezer for about 30-60 minutes. Usually, after it's been on cold storage (pun intended) for about an hour, it'll spin up for a little while after sticking it in a machine - long enough to pull critical data from it. (no charge for that bit of advice :) If that doesn't work, then you're probably not going to have much choice about having someone like Ontrack take a look at it. If it goes that route, call me first, since I can get you a break with Ontrack (I'm a partner) and save you a few bucks. -Kevin From george Sat Oct 2 22:13:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:13:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Data Recovery options? In-Reply-To: <002b01c4a8e9$1d38e210$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <20041002235217.YNQL26805.out003.verizon.net@celeron600> <002b01c4a8e9$1d38e210$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2004, at 9:34 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > : This isn't a client's HD, it's personal, so price is certainly a > : factor > : here. :) I've gotten wildly disparate quotes from $200 to allmost > : $2000. > > I do data recovery, but only on drives that are able to spin up. I've > learned a few tricks over the years, and oddly, one thing I've had > great > luck with is something that sounds really weird - wrap the drive in a > static > bag, then again with seran wrap, then stick it in the freezer for about > 30-60 minutes. Usually, after it's been on cold storage (pun > intended) for > about an hour, it'll spin up for a little while after sticking it in a > machine - long enough to pull critical data from it. (no charge for > that > bit of advice :) Nice. . . > > If that doesn't work, then you're probably not going to have much > choice > about having someone like Ontrack take a look at it. If it goes that > route, > call me first, since I can get you a break with Ontrack (I'm a > partner) and > save you a few bucks. > I have dealt with OnTrack a few times over a long period of time. . .they seem to be at the forefront of the industry. . . g From chsnyder Sun Oct 3 12:21:56 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:21:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] IMPORTANT! shmoocon DC, 2005 In-Reply-To: References: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> <20041002041417.3426af4d@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: I plan on going too, though as a NYCBUG lurker most of y'all don't know me yet. From kstarsinic Sun Oct 3 17:10:21 2004 From: kstarsinic (Kurt Starsinic) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:10:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] IMPORTANT! shmoocon DC, 2005 In-Reply-To: <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> References: <5921D68C-1296-11D9-A73D-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041001105913.H581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <3cf4c086041003141043ecdb02@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:59:53 -0400 (EDT), Dru wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > > Security folks know, but if you don't know who the shmoo group is, google > > them asap and find out. > > > > Well, after their countless talks at Security Conferences, and many amazing > > tool releases, they are putting on a Proper East Coast Hacker Con, > > > > http://www.shmoocon.org/cfp.html > > > > Tomorrow is the last day of Early Registration- so REGISTER NOW, we'll figure > > out a NYCBUG convoy to DC later! > > > > THIS PROMISES TO BE AWESOME. > > > This sounds great. Anyone else thinking of going? I am. - Kurt From ritalin_casa Mon Oct 4 01:38:56 2004 From: ritalin_casa (ritalin_casa at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 05:38:56 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] kernel question: lkm and ucom Message-ID: <100420040538.2269.4160E1EF0006EAAB000008DD22007456720E9C0E0CA10207040E9B079D@comcast.net> Hello, I'm new to the group, please let me know if this is a proper place to ask this type of question. How do I write a lkm driver that uses ucom.c for the tty support? I read the 'Introduction to LKM' and 'Writing a LKM Driver for NetBSD' by Olivier Jaquemet. These two documents say that I'll need to declare a cdevsw device structure for the lkm device. However, ucom already has a cdevsw device structure declared with major number is 66. If I were to use FreeBSD, I can simply register my driver with the ucom device. How do I do that in NetBSD? Should I search the cdevsw device list for the ucom device, and attach it using MOD_DEV? Or is there something else I need to know? I already sucessfully crashed my NetBSD to the point that I lost my X-windows. Thank you so much in advance! rl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041004/8efdb6ad/attachment.html From steve.rieger Mon Oct 4 10:46:10 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:46:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions Message-ID: Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 steve.rieger at tbwachiat.com From tux Mon Oct 4 11:08:54 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:08:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions References: Message-ID: <009201c4aa24$13d99e30$0500a8c0@apollo> : Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, SSH by default doesn't allow root to login directly, which you probably aready know, so I think your question is asking if it's possible to disable "su" from either telnet or SSH sessions so root can't have access to the box except for console sessions? Hmm... I don't think I have a clue, but I'm sure others on the list can help out on this one. -Kevin From steve.rieger Mon Oct 4 11:06:24 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:06:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <009201c4aa24$13d99e30$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: > : Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, > > SSH by default doesn't allow root to login directly, which you probably > aready know, so I think your question is asking if it's possible to disable > "su" from either telnet or SSH sessions so root can't have access to the box > except for console sessions? > > Hmm... I don't think I have a clue, but I'm sure others on the list can help > out on this one. > > -Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > To clarify a bit, I only want people to be able to log in as root from the console, no ssh, telnet is totally disabled. -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From tux Mon Oct 4 11:23:10 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:23:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions References: Message-ID: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> : I only want people to be able to log in as root from the console, no ssh, : telnet is totally disabled. By default, root is denied login access via SSH, but a user can login and do "su" to root. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about though. (That applies not only to BSD, but also in Linux.) From steve.rieger Mon Oct 4 11:15:53 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:15:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: > : I only want people to be able to log in as root from the console, no ssh, > : telnet is totally disabled. > > By default, root is denied login access via SSH, but a user can login and do > "su" to root. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about though. > (That applies not only to BSD, but also in Linux.) > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > Linux for the most part will allow you to login as root via ssh, whereas bsd will not, I want to disable su - via ssh totally, I only want to allow su - toor when logged in via ssh. Root should be allowed only at console, and toor should be used via ssh -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From o_sleep Mon Oct 4 11:19:08 2004 From: o_sleep (Bjorn Nelson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:19:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: Kevin, > : I only want people to be able to log in as root from the console, no > ssh, > : telnet is totally disabled. > > By default, root is denied login access via SSH, but a user can login > and do > "su" to root. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about though. > (That applies not only to BSD, but also in Linux.) I think he is asking if there is a way to do the equivalent of setting CONSOLE=/dev/console in /etc/defaults/login in Solaris. I don't know of an equivalent, but as you mentioned, you can do a lot of authentication tricks in ssh: user, group, key allow for instance. -Bjorn From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 4 11:27:41 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041004112524.T1146@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, > Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas wrote a bit about it here: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you referring to some sort of tripwire database or tightening up permissions? Dru From steve.rieger Mon Oct 4 11:24:51 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:24:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004112524.T1146@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: > > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > >> Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, >> Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... > > > I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas wrote a bit > about it here: > > http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html > > It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) > > I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you referring to > some sort of tripwire database or tightening up permissions? > > Dru > With rcs, I want that in order for anybody to be able change any file or settings in /etc/and the sbin's they would have to check it out with rcs first. I just want to know if this is advisable or is there a better way ti create a backup copy everytime somebody wants to make any change in the /etc and sbin's -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From dave-dated-1097508862.83186e Mon Oct 4 11:34:06 2004 From: dave-dated-1097508862.83186e (Dave Steinberg) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:34:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: > : I only want people to be able to log in as root from the console, no > ssh, > : telnet is totally disabled. > > By default, root is denied login access via SSH, but a user can login > and do > "su" to root. I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about though. > (That applies not only to BSD, but also in Linux.) chmod 500 /usr/bin/su And use caution with your sudoers file to make sure nobody can do 'sudo ksh' or use sudo to launch anything that can execute shell commands (vi, emacs, etc). Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From tux Mon Oct 4 11:52:32 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:52:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: <010001c4aa2a$2b9db280$0500a8c0@apollo> : I want to disable su - via ssh totally, I only want to allow su - : toor when logged in via ssh. Root should be allowed only at console, and : toor should be used via ssh /etc/login.access can be configured to allow or disallow logins from the console, sessions, etc. : Linux for the most part will allow you to login as root via ssh I can't speak for all distros, since I mainly deal with Slackware and Debian (both of which specifically do not allow root to login directly via SSH). On Linux, SSH access can be configured by editing /etc/sshd.conf but in BSD it's a bit different (see above.) You might also want to check to see if "sudo" has been installed, and if so, which users (if any) are allowed to do sudo commands, which would effectively bypass users needing to su to root/toor to do anything major on the box via a session of any type. From ike Mon Oct 4 11:56:42 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:56:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: Hi All, A Darwin Tangent on this topic- sudo rocks, On Oct 4, 2004, at 11:34 AM, Dave Steinberg wrote: > chmod 500 /usr/bin/su > > And use caution with your sudoers file to make sure nobody can do > 'sudo ksh' or use sudo to launch anything that can execute shell > commands (vi, emacs, etc). Darwin, by default, does not allow any user to directly su to root, from a console, or otherwise. The root user 'is not enabled', and therefore all root level access control is done via sudo. (the system root user has no password) Here's Apple's current official word on the subject: http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2001/qa1013.html Here's some info on how to bypass this idea and enable root for your Darwin box: http://macosx.org/software/utilities/rootpass.html -- That stated, it is basically manditory that users with root priviliges use 'sudo csh' or 'sudo ksh' or 'sudo bash' or whatever shell, to get a full root shell- but of course, this is strongly discouraged. I personally feel this has been a strong positive decision from the Darwin teams, made early on, insomuch as it requires application and system design to adhere to sudo usage, which in the end, can be a MUCH safer and saner way of working. In the early days of Darwin, enabling root was somewhat necessary, but after years of working with sudo now, I much prefer this way of working, and don't enable root login via su on any mac I touch- desktop or server. I have also somewhat implemented this sort of policy once on a FreeBSD server, with ok success. (by making the root shell /sbin/nologin ) -- With regard to root login, all you need to know for the ssh daemon is in it's config file, usually in /etc/sshd_config . Best, .ike From tux Mon Oct 4 12:20:26 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:20:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NJ/NYC Area Data Storage Facility Message-ID: <012601c4aa2e$11b35740$0500a8c0@apollo> Does anyone own/run a data storage facility in the NJ/NYC area? I have access to a secure facility, but I don't have the $$$ for the required T-line, servers, etc. to start one up on my own. I have a growing customer base that is requiring offsite data storage with no way to presently meet the demand and would be interested if anyone here knows of a place. Please contact me OL if you have any suggestions. Thanks, Kevin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041004/a068bb90/attachment.bin From alex Mon Oct 4 12:39:28 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] NJ/NYC Area Data Storage Facility In-Reply-To: <012601c4aa2e$11b35740$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Does anyone own/run a data storage facility in the NJ/NYC area? I have > access to a secure facility, but I don't have the $$$ for the required > T-line, servers, etc. to start one up on my own. I have a growing > customer base that is requiring offsite data storage with no way to > presently meet the demand and would be interested if anyone here knows > of a place. Data Storage? You mean a datacenter, probably - data storage is a whole lot of paper boxes in a warehouse. :) That being said - I own/run an ISP. We have a carrier-class datacenter at 55 Broad St, multiple points of presence in carrier facilities in NYC (at 25 Broadway and 60 Hudson St) and our own dark fiber interconnecting us to other carriers. You are most welcome to come by and tour our facilities. -alex From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 4 14:09:17 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: >> >>> Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, >>> Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... >> >> >> I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas wrote a bit >> about it here: >> >> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html >> >> It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) >> >> I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you referring to >> some sort of tripwire database or tightening up permissions? >> >> Dru >> > With rcs, I want that in order for anybody to be able change any file or > settings in /etc/and the sbin's they would have to check it out with rcs > first. > > I just want to know if this is advisable or is there a better way ti create > a backup copy everytime somebody wants to make any change in the /etc and > sbin's That's a cool idea. Anyone either implementing this or seen it implemented out in the wild? Dru From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 4 14:21:05 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: advocacy materials (fwd) Message-ID: <20041004141550.B1146@dru.domain.org> With permission, I've forwarded some correspondence I received from Bruce regarding a new book that is available for advocating FreeBSD. He's sending me some copies for GTEC and I'll be posting a review once I have a chance to read the book. His reasons for writing the book are included below. Dru ----- Hi, Dru. Regarding your GTEC booth post inquiring about FreeBSD advocacy materials on advocacy at freebsd.org... I can send you 3 copies of a 150 page book that I have recently written, to be given away free, thrown in the trash, whatever you want. The book is basically a rationale for using FreeBSD and the BSD license. It is aimed at traditional IT professionals and academic/government computing staff types. I'm particularly interested in young grad student research types---I think many of these are potentially going to get burned by the GPL. The book contains more history that hopefully illuminates things than most books of this type. BTW, I've found that many CS faculty, even OS and system researchers, are not aware of the legal issues. Book Title: "Elements of Operating System and Internet History: A FreeBSD Rationale" Jacket text: "This book contains a non-technical introduction to the FreeBSD operating system, followed by elements of history relevant to FreeBSD. This book contains a rationale for adopting FreeBSD and an introduction to open source and open source licensing. This book can also serve as a survey of how operating systems and Internet engineering came to be the way they are today." When I wrote "recently written" that means finished last week! However, I have been experimenting with various publish-on-demand schemes in silicon valley for about 5 years. I've now got a system where I can usually get 1 day turnaround. Some of the material in this book comes from an earlier book I first did 4 years ago (but only sold to UCSC). I originally got dragged into this book to provide some material for a FreeBSD-based lab at UCSC. I've been doing OS engineering for some 30 years and been in the silicon valley area over 20... I've watched a lot of manuals get written... (not that I'm good at it). One reason I've tried to do a good job on this is I indirectly noted a high-profile "cluster" (the UCSC system that first mapped the human genome) use Linux, when it could have used FreeBSD and the senior tech-types wanted to use FreeBSD. But somehow FreeBSD just didn't have the "presence" and momentum of Linux. (I think they did end up finally going to FreeBSD for the NFS server). This scenario is likely being repeated numerous times. Having in-hand some sort of management-oriented "exec summary" or "white paper" book might prove helpful. I will get a web-page up sometime next week. I will ping when it's ready. From steve.rieger Mon Oct 4 14:43:03 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:43:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: > > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: >>> >>>> Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, >>>> Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... >>> >>> >>> I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas wrote a bit >>> about it here: >>> >>> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html >>> >>> It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) >>> >>> I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you referring to >>> some sort of tripwire database or tightening up permissions? >>> >>> Dru >>> >> With rcs, I want that in order for anybody to be able change any file or >> settings in /etc/and the sbin's they would have to check it out with rcs >> first. >> >> I just want to know if this is advisable or is there a better way ti create >> a backup copy everytime somebody wants to make any change in the /etc and >> sbin's > > > That's a cool idea. Anyone either implementing this or seen it implemented > out in the wild? > > Dru > I did it a long time ago on solaris, and it worked great, but I wondered if anybody did this on fbsd,.... Or perhaps you have a better way of ensuring change management on certain dir's -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From tillman Mon Oct 4 15:33:58 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:33:58 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 02:09:17PM -0400, Dru wrote: > That's a cool idea. Anyone either implementing this or seen it implemented > out in the wild? I've both seen it implemented and tried it myself. It was somewhat unsatisfying because RCS is specific to the local machine. So I went to CVS. Which was somewhat unsatisfying because I still had to pull down changes from each box rather than centrally push them out. So I implemented a Kerberos realm and used ClusterIt to enable parallel network shells to do maintenance with. Which was still somewhat unsatisfying because I have a heterogenous environment, and the various Unixen do not make centralized configuration easy. So I ended up at http://www.infrastructures.org/ and starting poking at cfengine and other tools like that. The folks there have been working on this very topic for a long time, and there's a lot of value in having the dead-ends marked off with warning signs ;-) Thinking about how to manage a large Unix-but-heterogenous environment has been a hobby of mine for a long time. It's one of those problem spaces with endless (and endlessly fascinating) complexity and the best "90% solutions" are of the simple-and-elegant type. I'm the kind of Unix geek that sees those types of solutions as a form of art, with their own intrinsic beauty. So ... yeah. Side-tracked. Heh. -T -- "Being generous is inborn; being altruistic is a learned perversity. No resemblance." -- Robert Heinlein From louis Mon Oct 4 15:45:34 2004 From: louis (Louis Bertrand) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: [snip] > In the early days of Darwin, enabling root was somewhat necessary, but > after years of working with sudo now, I much prefer this way of > working, and don't enable root login via su on any mac I touch- desktop > or server. > I have also somewhat implemented this sort of policy once on a FreeBSD > server, with ok success. (by making the root shell /sbin/nologin ) > That's pretty ballsy. What happens if you have to boot into single user mode? (BTW I agree, sudo rocks on Darwin/OS X) Ciao --Louis From louis Mon Oct 4 15:52:46 2004 From: louis (Louis Bertrand) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, > Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... > One trick that helps me manage config files is to manually create restore points. Let's say I want to edit /etc/group: cd /etc sudo mv group group.orig # (invent your own journaling scheme) sudo cp group.orig group sudo vi group # So now you have the new version and the original with correct timestamp # . . . later if you want to restore the original . . . sudo mv group.orig group # Mod time unchanged It's not exactly a long term thing, but it's useful for putting things back the way they were if the changes don't work. Ciao --Louis From ike Mon Oct 4 16:48:17 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:48:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: <00c001c4aa26$114f10d0$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: Word Louis, On Oct 4, 2004, at 3:45 PM, Louis Bertrand wrote: >> I have also somewhat implemented this sort of policy once on a FreeBSD >> server, with ok success. (by making the root shell /sbin/nologin ) >> > That's pretty ballsy. What happens if you have to boot into single > user mode? > (BTW I agree, sudo rocks on Darwin/OS X) > > Ciao > --Louis Heh- wow. Darned good question. To be honest, that's something I didn't think about at all- interesting. I guess, I'd employ the strategy I've grown up on from the Mac world, where booting from CD and fixing a system is the common way of doing things. I actually just made a nice FreeBSD repair kit, straight out of Dru's BSD Hacks book, (Hack # 71), which could be used to boot a server and deal with the sort of problem which would require a single-user boot. But, delightfully, the FreeBSD server in question hasn't gone down since I set it up, (it's a very simple and specific-use system), so I guess reliability can become a pitfall . (Oh, the problems we have in BSD-land, where systems are TOO reliable!) Rocket- .ike From mspitze1 Mon Oct 4 22:11:10 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:11:10 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041004221110.31f5dc12@bogomips.optonline.net> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Dru wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > >> > >>> Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, > >>> Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... > >> > >> > >> I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas > >wrote a bit> about it here: > >> > >> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html > >> > >> It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) > >> > >> I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you > >referring to> some sort of tripwire database or tightening up > >permissions?> > >> Dru > >> > > With rcs, I want that in order for anybody to be able change any > > file or settings in /etc/and the sbin's they would have to check it > > out with rcs first. > > > > I just want to know if this is advisable or is there a better way ti > > create a backup copy everytime somebody wants to make any change in > > the /etc and sbin's > > > That's a cool idea. Anyone either implementing this or seen it > implemented out in the wild? There is one problem with it though, I know I am entirely too good at finding problems, everybody has to be good all the time or your system does not work. An alternative is to either tar up /etc every night or run a batch job with your favorite VC(rcs, cvs, arch,...) software as a cron job. After all if it broke on Tuesday and you can see all changes between Tuesday 1:30 am and now it should be pretty easy to fix or roll back. And you do not have to remember to be good all the time. marc > > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From bschonhorst Tue Oct 5 09:39:39 2004 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:39:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <014AC37A-16D4-11D9-95E8-000A9573D036@vcsnyc.org> On Oct 4, 2004, at 2:09 PM, Dru wrote: > > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: > >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Steve Rieger wrote: >>> >>>> Is it possible to disable root access except from console logins, >>>> Do you guys recommend putting rcs on /etc and /sbin etc... >>> >>> >>> I think you're looking for "man 5 login.access". Michael Lucas wrote >>> a bit >>> about it here: >>> >>> http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001/06/28/Big_Scary_Daemons.html >>> >>> It's also in hack #34 of BSD Hacks ;-) >>> >>> I'm not sure what you're asking about with "rcs"... Are you >>> referring to >>> some sort of tripwire database or tightening up permissions? >>> >>> Dru >>> >> With rcs, I want that in order for anybody to be able change any file >> or >> settings in /etc/and the sbin's they would have to check it out with >> rcs >> first. >> >> I just want to know if this is advisable or is there a better way ti >> create >> a backup copy everytime somebody wants to make any change in the /etc >> and >> sbin's > > > That's a cool idea. Anyone either implementing this or seen it > implemented out in the wild? I set something similar up at an ISP I worked for. We used CVS to manage changes made to all configuration files dealing with web hosting. So when a customer added features to their hosting package, say they wanted a static IP, a script would be run that would update the files and check it back in to CVS. Before I left, we had planned to managed our DNS servers in a similar fashion. Made for an excellent way to track changes or any typos that might pop up. -brad ______________ Brad Schonhorst Network Administrator Village Community School From bschonhorst Tue Oct 5 09:48:42 2004 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:48:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D7E737-16D5-11D9-95E8-000A9573D036@vcsnyc.org> > > One trick that helps me manage config files is to manually create > restore points. Let's say I want to edit /etc/group: > > cd /etc > sudo mv group group.orig # (invent your own journaling scheme) > sudo cp group.orig group > sudo vi group > # So now you have the new version and the original with correct > timestamp > > # . . . later if you want to restore the original . . . > sudo mv group.orig group # Mod time unchanged I generally do that to any files I change on machines that I am the sole administrator. The problem (like all computer problems) occurs when you introduce other users/admins to the box. The one time someone forgets to copy the original will probably be the one time they introduce breakage. From george Tue Oct 5 13:15:08 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:15:08 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:33:58PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > >It was somewhat unsatisfying because RCS is specific to the local >machine. So I went to CVS. my best practice understanding is RCS for config files, and CVS for code (and some people use CVS for docs). Guess you rsync /etc from a gold server to RCS configs across hosts? Also, if it's not over engineering for your site, cfengine may be best practice for your configs. ...enough for what I've heard... > >Which was somewhat unsatisfying because I still had to pull down changes >from each box rather than centrally push them out. So I implemented a >Kerberos realm and used ClusterIt to enable parallel network shells to >do maintenance with. me wants to try Kerberos someday. don't think LDAP will make it into my systems. > >Which was still somewhat unsatisfying because I have a heterogenous >environment, and the various Unixen do not make centralized >configuration easy. > >So I ended up at http://www.infrastructures.org/ and starting poking at >cfengine and other tools like that. The folks there have been working on >this very topic for a long time, and there's a lot of value in having >the dead-ends marked off with warning signs ;-) nice site. they have an interesting page on pushpull issues. Which is a decent segue to my present issues. first off I'm thinking to use CVSup and unison [1] to resolve. Three problems, 1) for the purpose of NFS, sync /etc/passwd, group and mount points. 2) get "root read only" (and other ownership/perms) files from golden box to production. 3) sync data partitions in real or near real time for 3 or more sites with slow links. (boss says need functionality, not perfection, in practice only one site will change at a time, heh) So what are people doing about #1? Will CVSup do for #2? how? Is unison going to work for #3? Anybody do something similar? Anybody who can solve any two of above gets all their drinks on me at next meeting! slosh the sysmin (tm) // George [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/index.html Unison is a file-synchronization tool for Unix and Windows. It allows two replicas of a collection of files and directories to be stored on different hosts (or different disks on the same host), modified separately, and then brought up to date by propagating the changes in each replica to the other. like rsync but bidirectional -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From steve.rieger Tue Oct 5 13:17:56 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:17:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Net SNMP question Message-ID: I need to get net-snmp with the perl modules, There are a few ways, source. /ports/net-mgmt.net-snmp5 and then ports/net-mgmt/p5-net-snmp, I would like to install from ports, but my ports for p5-net-snmp tels me that I need perl greater than 5.6 , I have 5.8.5 from ports and 5.00503 as base. Am runing fbsd 4.10, Is this an use.perl ports issue, or am I missing something here >From what you guys have been through what is the best advise... thanx -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From tillman Tue Oct 5 15:39:09 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:39:09 -0600 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041005193909.GP35869@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:15:08PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:33:58PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > >Which was somewhat unsatisfying because I still had to pull down changes > >from each box rather than centrally push them out. So I implemented a > >Kerberos realm and used ClusterIt to enable parallel network shells to > >do maintenance with. > > me wants to try Kerberos someday. don't think LDAP will make it into my > systems. After using it for a year or two, I wrote the Keberos5 chapter of the Handbook ... and I've been meaning to re-write it ever since ;-) It's definitely an addictive technology. Very Unixish in the "lego brick" sense. Currently I use Kerberos for authentication, NIS for authorization & meta-data (the passwd field is set to 'krb5'), and IPsec in transport mode to secure NIS. But I could rip out any given piece of it and re-architect if necessary, or even build a gateway to other authentication & authorization technologies. Very nice. > >So I ended up at http://www.infrastructures.org/ and starting poking at > >cfengine and other tools like that. The folks there have been working on > >this very topic for a long time, and there's a lot of value in having > >the dead-ends marked off with warning signs ;-) > > nice site. they have an interesting page on pushpull issues. The mailing list is probably more important than the web site ... > Which is a decent segue to my present issues. ... as the folks there talk about the issues you mention almost exclusively :-) -T -- When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path. - Ancient Fremen Wisdom From ike Tue Oct 5 15:40:12 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:40:12 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi George, All, On Oct 5, 2004, at 1:15 PM, George Georgalis wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:33:58PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: [... snip- lots of fun sync stuff ...] > first off I'm thinking to use CVSup and unison [1] to resolve. > > Three problems, > 1) for the purpose of NFS, sync /etc/passwd, group and mount points. > 2) get "root read only" (and other ownership/perms) files from golden > box to production. > 3) sync data partitions in real or near real time for 3 or more sites > with slow links. (boss says need functionality, not perfection, in > practice only one site will change at a time, heh) > > So what are people doing about #1? > Will CVSup do for #2? how? > Is unison going to work for #3? Anybody do something similar? > > Anybody who can solve any two of above gets all their drinks on me at > next meeting! slosh the sysmin (tm) Well, George, I can't say that I'm answering these very directly, but for everyone's edification here, there is a VERY cool distributed data toolkit I wanted to mention called spread- http://www.spread.org/ I've experienced it in the context of Zope/ZEO use, basically keeping concurrency between object databases across hardwares, and in one case, across geo-diverse servers. It's cool, simple to use, and FAST (in the context of what it is designed to do!). It's darned cool stuff, and I've found it to be clean and portable across various open *NIX's so far. In a nutshell, you can write shell scripts that use spread, or an app (with bindings likely in your language of choice), to keep concurrency between files across a network. Spread does not make any assumptions about lower levels of the network, so you can secure it however you wish (stunnel or vpn perhaps?). -- Now, I'd imagine, that it wouldn't be all that difficult to write a daemon that maintains real-time (er, network real-time ) concurrency between the config files on one machine, and 'backups' on another machine, where hooks to spread could be used to pump each change into a CVS or SVN repository. It would be the way I'd go- but I'm not doing this right now. (Though this sounds fun, and I'd love to figure it into a short paying Job in the future, therefore enabling it to get in my current radar...). Hrm. But, there may be much better ways, so I'll keep lurking on this thread... Rocket- .ike > > // George > > [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/index.html > Unison is a file-synchronization tool for Unix and Windows. It allows > two replicas of a collection of files and directories to be stored > on different hosts (or different disks on the same host), modified > separately, and then brought up to date by propagating the changes in > each replica to the other. like rsync but bidirectional From steve.rieger Tue Oct 5 15:55:07 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:55:07 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: > Hi George, All, > > On Oct 5, 2004, at 1:15 PM, George Georgalis wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 01:33:58PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > [... snip- lots of fun sync stuff ...] > >> first off I'm thinking to use CVSup and unison [1] to resolve. >> >> Three problems, >> 1) for the purpose of NFS, sync /etc/passwd, group and mount points. >> 2) get "root read only" (and other ownership/perms) files from golden >> box to production. >> 3) sync data partitions in real or near real time for 3 or more sites >> with slow links. (boss says need functionality, not perfection, in >> practice only one site will change at a time, heh) >> >> So what are people doing about #1? >> Will CVSup do for #2? how? >> Is unison going to work for #3? Anybody do something similar? >> >> Anybody who can solve any two of above gets all their drinks on me at >> next meeting! slosh the sysmin (tm) > > Well, George, I can't say that I'm answering these very directly, but > for everyone's edification here, there is a VERY cool distributed data > toolkit I wanted to mention called spread- > > http://www.spread.org/ > > I've experienced it in the context of Zope/ZEO use, basically keeping > concurrency between object databases across hardwares, and in one case, > across geo-diverse servers. It's cool, simple to use, and FAST (in the > context of what it is designed to do!). > > It's darned cool stuff, and I've found it to be clean and portable > across various open *NIX's so far. > > In a nutshell, you can write shell scripts that use spread, or an app > (with bindings likely in your language of choice), to keep concurrency > between files across a network. Spread does not make any assumptions > about lower levels of the network, so you can secure it however you > wish (stunnel or vpn perhaps?). > > -- > Now, I'd imagine, that it wouldn't be all that difficult to write a > daemon that maintains real-time (er, network real-time ) concurrency > between the config files on one machine, and 'backups' on another > machine, where hooks to spread could be used to pump each change into a > CVS or SVN repository. > > It would be the way I'd go- but I'm not doing this right now. (Though > this sounds fun, and I'd love to figure it into a short paying Job in > the future, therefore enabling it to get in my current radar...). Hrm. > > But, there may be much better ways, so I'll keep lurking on this > thread... > > Rocket- > .ike > > > >> >> // George >> >> [1] http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/index.html >> Unison is a file-synchronization tool for Unix and Windows. It allows >> two replicas of a collection of files and directories to be stored >> on different hosts (or different disks on the same host), modified >> separately, and then brought up to date by propagating the changes in >> each replica to the other. like rsync but bidirectional > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG (real_name)s mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > Fbsd has clusterit in ports which is kinda cool, -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From tillman Tue Oct 5 15:57:28 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:57:28 -0600 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041005195728.GQ35869@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:15:08PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > Which is a decent segue to my present issues. > > first off I'm thinking to use CVSup and unison [1] to resolve. > > Three problems, > 1) for the purpose of NFS, sync /etc/passwd, group and mount points. > 2) get "root read only" (and other ownership/perms) files from golden > box to production. These two I can take a crack at with some pretty simple architecture, not up to cfengine snuff but "good enough", assuming that "mount points" means "/etc/fstab" ;-) Use rcp and push the critical files from a golden master. No, seriously: Kerberized rcp is secure, data session encrypted (with the '-x' switch), and can be easily automated from cron with the use of a keytab on the golden master in place of a password (without needing to deal with the mess of putting matching keys on all the clients machines). Push is better than pull in this sort of situation simply because failure detection and resolution is centralized. The script, running on the golden master, can contain all kinds of safety checks and can email details of inconsistencies to your cell phone or whatever you use for notifications. Heck, if you use something like rt3 to track problems you can have the script create a trouble ticket for you and dump details into the ticket automatically. You can also use mtree to check ownership/permissions and reset them if necesasry. The mtree master file can be rcp'ed in from a golden master (and should be, as a local copy is vulnerable to tampering). On the golden master use RCS or non-networked Subversion (local repository) to track changes to config files that are being pushed out. Oh, ok, scp with rsa keys would also work. But key management is a pain, and I'm a Kerberos nut ;-) -T -- "Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered a capital crime. For a first offense, that is." -- Robert Heinlein From nycbug Tue Oct 5 16:11:01 2004 From: nycbug (A Nice Bug) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:11:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Net SNMP question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041005201100.GA34231@florian.hastek.net> Hi! Steve Rieger: > I need to get net-snmp with the perl modules, > > There are a few ways, source. /ports/net-mgmt.net-snmp5 and then > ports/net-mgmt/p5-net-snmp, I would like to install from ports, but my ports > for p5-net-snmp tels me that I need perl greater than 5.6 , I have 5.8.5 > from ports and 5.00503 as base. Am runing fbsd 4.10, > Is this an use.perl ports issue, or am I missing something here Doesn't everyone use.perl (unless you explicitly need to keep multiple versions on your box)? I would take the newer Perl if given a choice ... Check this: http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=396223 >ports/net-mgmt/p5-net-snmp isn't this the Net::SNMP perl module? The article above explains the difference between that and the Perl stuff that comes with: > /ports/net-mgmt/net-snmp5 the port of net-snmp 5.x From tillman Tue Oct 5 16:16:56 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:16:56 -0600 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041005201656.GR35869@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:55:07PM -0400, Steve Rieger wrote: > Fbsd has clusterit in ports which is kinda cool, It's a *very* cool tool :-) Here's a (lightweight/humourous) article I wrote on it a while ago: http://prod.seekingfire.com/documents/toolshed/clusterit.html Please note that I'm still in the process of designing that site (the article was originally under the rospa.ca domain, which is sadly no more), so the URL might disappear or move in the near future. The hostname will undoubtably change as I get ready to go "public". -T -- "Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." -- Robert Heinlein From george Tue Oct 5 21:34:19 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:34:19 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041005201656.GR35869@seekingfire.com> References: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041005201656.GR35869@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041006013419.GM11104@trot.local> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 02:16:56PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: >On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:55:07PM -0400, Steve Rieger wrote: >> Fbsd has clusterit in ports which is kinda cool, > >It's a *very* cool tool :-) > >Here's a (lightweight/humourous) article I wrote on it a while ago: > >http://prod.seekingfire.com/documents/toolshed/clusterit.html nice, but what if you have blue AND green lights on your servers! seriously, once at a large site (65 servers), we has something similar, but it was very pedestrian, not much more than a loop that did 'ssh $2@$groupnode $3' for each computer in group $1. clusterit looks much more developed... that was the same site where the admin got all pissed at me because my rsync cron deleted 4 hours of his dev work on a production machine, after he had forgotten we agreed the consultant, me, would set up the rsync cron. really so many ways to do change management, but if all the admins don't agree, none of them work. >Please note that I'm still in the process of designing that site (the >article was originally under the rospa.ca domain, which is sadly no >more), so the URL might disappear or move in the near future. The >hostname will undoubtably change as I get ready to go "public". nice to see the the glider hacker emblem, I forgot about that, interesting mouse over too... didn't dig it out of all the css, is it free? I looked at the bash performance toolshed too, will have to post a couple bash bugs I came across recently. (or maybe someone can tell me why they aren't bugs!) a script breaks (doesn't reiterate the recursion) when I take out the debugging echo "here I am" lines, and the printf builtin fails to do the "\n" even " \n" when it should... I got to reproduce the problem outside the script, maybe this weekend. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From george Tue Oct 5 21:54:18 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:54:18 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041006015418.GN11104@trot.local> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 03:40:12PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: >for everyone's edification here, there is a VERY cool distributed data >toolkit I wanted to mention called spread- > >http://www.spread.org/ > >I've experienced it in the context of Zope/ZEO use, basically keeping >concurrency between object databases across hardwares, and in one case, >across geo-diverse servers. It's cool, simple to use, and FAST (in the >context of what it is designed to do!). err, umm, sounds nice but I don't really see any examples of use on the website and the user guide is a 52 page pdf... Does it have utility in under 60 minutes? >In a nutshell, you can write shell scripts that use spread, or an app >(with bindings likely in your language of choice), to keep concurrency >between files across a network. Spread does not make any assumptions >about lower levels of the network, so you can secure it however you >wish (stunnel or vpn perhaps?). Like I said, sounds good, but without seeing how it works, I'm inclined to try unison first which I don't expect to be much different than rsync. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From tillman Tue Oct 5 23:29:23 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:29:23 -0600 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041006013419.GM11104@trot.local> References: <5F5E1D91-1706-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041005201656.GR35869@seekingfire.com> <20041006013419.GM11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041006032923.GD35869@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:34:19PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > nice, but what if you have blue AND green lights on your servers! Then you have use LDAP instead of Kerberos, of course! > seriously, once at a large site (65 servers), we has something > similar, but it was very pedestrian, not much more than a loop that > did 'ssh $2@$groupnode $3' for each computer in group $1. clusterit > looks much more developed... It makes AIX admins with PSSP experience get all teary-eyed with joy. I found that unnerving. (Hopefully Lonny isn't on this list *grin*). > really so many ways to do change management, but if all the admins > don't agree, none of them work. That's the bottom line, yup. Benjy Feen (mostly on the SAGE-members@ mailing list) has a great memo/rant on that topic at http://www.monkeybagel.com/memebucket.html (scroll down to "Esteemed colleagues"). I /seriously/ have to get a pipe wrench. Heh. > nice to see the the glider hacker emblem, I forgot about that, Yeah. In spite of the fact that it didn't really catch on, I liked the logo enough to keep it. > interesting mouse over too... didn't dig it out of all the css, is it > free? Yup. It utilizes JavaScript, though, which annoys some folks ;-) > I looked at the bash performance toolshed too, Thanks! I'm most proud of the stuff aimed at a more technical audience, which I now have up at http://prod.seekingfire.com/documents/. The graphics for the filesystem layout in the Linux File System Hierarchy brochure is particularly nice, partly because it's dynamic and will redraw itself if I change the LaTeX around a bit. Yay, it was a productive evening. Only 3 major items left before the site can change it's hostname to "www" and go public :-) -T -- "It's hard to find people in society who can administer UNIX and professionally carry a weapon." -- Jim Williams, former FBI Computer Intrusion Squad agent From george Wed Oct 6 00:15:50 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 00:15:50 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041005195728.GQ35869@seekingfire.com> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> <20041005195728.GQ35869@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041006041550.GO11104@trot.local> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: >On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:15:08PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: >> Which is a decent segue to my present issues. >> >> first off I'm thinking to use CVSup and unison [1] to resolve. >> >> Three problems, >> 1) for the purpose of NFS, sync /etc/passwd, group and mount points. >> 2) get "root read only" (and other ownership/perms) files from golden >> box to production. > >These two I can take a crack at with some pretty simple architecture, >not up to cfengine snuff but "good enough", assuming that "mount points" >means "/etc/fstab" ;-) Ahem, as soon as my dev todo list is below panic level (sound familiar?), I'll be porting my bike shed to BSD. Actually, I'd be running a, top of the foodchain, BSD workstation right now, but I couldn't work out cons25 to linux termcap issues, which was a show stopper for my last migration attempt. Long as I'm venting, not to happy about this either: http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0409.3/0641.html two of my messages each to linux kernel list _and_ driver authors went unanswered. my particular SATA disk (seagate 160Gb) is on a blacklist now that changes performance from ~47MB/sec to ~14MB/sec, yet nobody seems concerned that it doesn't belong on the black list... I remove my disk from the driver black list, and put the disk in production. Blah... but for now, yes I'm talking fstab. I'm not pro-cfengine either, maybe if I was more happy with a stock OS/Distro it'd be an option. > >Use rcp and push the critical files from a golden master. No, seriously: >Kerberized rcp is secure, data session encrypted (with the '-x' switch), >and can be easily automated from cron with the use of a keytab on the >golden master in place of a password (without needing to deal with the >mess of putting matching keys on all the clients machines). Push is >better than pull in this sort of situation simply because failure >detection and resolution is centralized. umm, are you suggesting push passwd et al for NFS, and pull everything else from the gold master? but doesn't that mean compromise of any host can lead to compromise of all hosts -- since auth tokens for root on each, is on each? Isn't important to use one of push / pull but not both? I've always favored push, but after reading infrastructures.org pushpull, and considering a readonly CVSup, I'm thinking pull from gold.... kerberos, is sweet, but it's black magic to me, short term I'd rather maintain ssh keys. (BTW - when a box comes up, you can manually add a passphrase into ssh-agent then start crond with that environment and exit; to get passphrase ssh under cron :) ) > >The script, running on the golden master, can contain all kinds of >safety checks and can email details of inconsistencies to your cell >phone or whatever you use for notifications. Heck, if you use something >like rt3 to track problems you can have the script create a trouble >ticket for you and dump details into the ticket automatically. oh good idea, mon scripts submit rt tickets ;-) > >You can also use mtree to check ownership/permissions and reset them if >necesasry. The mtree master file can be rcp'ed in from a golden master >(and should be, as a local copy is vulnerable to tampering). never heard of mtree, but it looks like it will "help the hack" I want to avoid. I would rather make a jail for each client on the gold master, then the clients can just no passphrase ssh rsync pull their junk, as root. > >On the golden master use RCS or non-networked Subversion (local >repository) to track changes to config files that are being pushed out. > >Oh, ok, scp with rsa keys would also work. But key management is a pain, >and I'm a Kerberos nut ;-) I got the concept of kerberos down, I think, but like I said ssh keys would be easier for me. I don't know anything about NIS either accept I understand NIS+ is lame. But I don't think auth is really an issue here, doesn't it really come down to auth tokens are on the client or not; and allowing them to get all the uid/gid/perms but not more than the particular files for the client. But let me backup a little, for NFS do I need to sync any other files than: /etc/shadow /etc/passwd /etc/group I guess there is no practical (easy) way to have some extra accounts on a LAN box while keeping the global users from the NFS server synced too? Ironically, you (I think) recommended infrastructures.org, but I was really wanting to solve my root read pull only specific config problem; rsync push to each and every client from gold was never an issue. But you win a couple drinks anyway. :-) // George Dang, Twins played good. -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From ike Wed Oct 6 06:01:12 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:01:12 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 5, 2004, at 3:55 PM, Steve Rieger wrote: > Fbsd has clusterit in ports which is kinda cool, Mmmm... This looks yummy. Rocket- .ike From ike Wed Oct 6 06:07:59 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:07:59 -0400 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041006041550.GO11104@trot.local> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> <20041005195728.GQ35869@seekingfire.com> <20041006041550.GO11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <99CF20D8-177F-11D9-896F-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Gah! On Oct 6, 2004, at 12:15 AM, George Georgalis wrote: > oh good idea, mon scripts submit rt tickets ;-) Just had a flashback to RT2... /me starts to twitch at my desk here... ;) Rocket- .ike From george Wed Oct 6 09:49:14 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:49:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: glider logo Message-ID: <20041006134914.GA18465@trot.local> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:29:23PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: >On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:34:19PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: >> nice to see the the glider hacker emblem, I forgot about that, > >Yeah. In spite of the fact that it didn't really catch on, I liked the >logo enough to keep it. > >> interesting mouse over too... didn't dig it out of all the css, is it >> free? > >Yup. It utilizes JavaScript, though, which annoys some folks ;-) seems doable with a css a:hover (now that that is availcbl. // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From tillman Wed Oct 6 10:33:59 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:33:59 -0600 Subject: config management Re: [nycbug-talk] A couple of security related questions In-Reply-To: <20041006041550.GO11104@trot.local> References: <20041004140827.P1146@dru.domain.org> <20041004193358.GH35869@seekingfire.com> <20041005171508.GF11104@trot.local> <20041005195728.GQ35869@seekingfire.com> <20041006041550.GO11104@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041006143359.GG35869@seekingfire.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 12:15:50AM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 01:57:28PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > but for now, yes I'm talking fstab. I'm not pro-cfengine either, > maybe if I was more happy with a stock OS/Distro it'd be an option. In theory cfengine can handle a heterogenous environment. I'm too lazy to make that work, though ;-) > >Use rcp and push the critical files from a golden master. No, seriously: > >Kerberized rcp is secure, data session encrypted (with the '-x' switch), > >and can be easily automated from cron with the use of a keytab on the > >golden master in place of a password (without needing to deal with the > >mess of putting matching keys on all the clients machines). Push is > >better than pull in this sort of situation simply because failure > >detection and resolution is centralized. > > umm, are you suggesting push passwd et al for NFS, and pull everything > else from the gold master? but doesn't that mean compromise of any host > can lead to compromise of all hosts -- since auth tokens for root on > each, is on each? No. Kerberos isn't like SSH rsa keys -- there would be no auth tokens on any host but the gold master. And if you're using Kerberos, the /etc/master.passwd file has all the password disabled (or they can be unique per-host as a backup if you prefer) as all authentication takes place over the network in a secure fashion. > Isn't important to use one of push / pull but not both? I've always > favored push, but after reading infrastructures.org pushpull, and > considering a readonly CVSup, I'm thinking pull from gold.... Pushing meta-network, but not pulling anything. If you have NFS mounts you need on all clients (/usr/home, let's say) the golden master can do this (in pseudo-scripting-code): rcp -x /usr/local/golden/etc/fstab $client:/etc/fstab rsh -x $client 'mount -a' The idea is to push out the critical files via rcp, not via NFS. I only mentioned NFS originally because you were talking about /etc/fstab and it seems likely that you wanted to ensure NFS mountpoints were correct. > kerberos, is sweet, but it's black magic to me, short term I'd rather > maintain ssh keys. (BTW - when a box comes up, you can manually add a > passphrase into ssh-agent then start crond with that environment and > exit; to get passphrase ssh under cron :) ) ssh keys would work in this case too, if you don't mind the key management issues and the potential for key compromise. Using different key pairs per host would limit the spread of an intrusion. > >The script, running on the golden master, can contain all kinds of > >safety checks and can email details of inconsistencies to your cell > >phone or whatever you use for notifications. Heck, if you use > >something like rt3 to track problems you can have the script create a > >trouble ticket for you and dump details into the ticket > >automatically. > > oh good idea, mon scripts submit rt tickets ;-) Your help desk will /love/ it *evil grin* > >You can also use mtree to check ownership/permissions and reset them > >if necesasry. The mtree master file can be rcp'ed in from a golden > >master (and should be, as a local copy is vulnerable to tampering). > > never heard of mtree, but it looks like it will "help the hack" I want > to avoid. I would rather make a jail for each client on the gold > master, then the clients can just no passphrase ssh rsync pull their > junk, as root. mtree is part of FreeBSD, it's used durign the installworld process to build the filesystem tree and fix up permissions. So it's built into the base OS and is designed to precisely answer the problem of confirming fielsystem permissions and fixing them if necessary. THink of it as a Tripwire replacement built into the OS. > But I don't think auth is really an issue here, doesn't it really come > down to auth tokens are on the client or not; and allowing them to get > all the uid/gid/perms but not more than the particular files for the > client. I like using Kerberos with NIS because auth tokens are never on the client (or on the "wire"/network, for that matter) as long as the connections original from the golden master and ticket forwarding isn't enabled. If you have IPs to burn, you could run a jail per client and run with a minimal set of meta-data (passwd, group, etc) that applies only to that jail. Maintenance probably becomes painful, though. > But let me backup a little, for NFS do I need to sync any other files > than: /etc/shadow /etc/passwd /etc/group NIS can serve those files, though you'd probably want to combine NIS with a central auth mechanism and run the RPC traffic over IPsec out of healthy paranoia. For that matter I like running all my RPC traffic over IPsec in transport mode -- I got a free NFS speed increase out of it! I did some testing a few months ago using a Sun Ultra 5 @360MHz running -current and a generic Celeron 400Mhz box. Here's the "plain text" speeds (using netperf to simulate NFS): [root at caliban ~]# /usr/local/netperf/netperf -t UDP_STREAM -H athena UDP UNIDIRECTIONAL SEND TEST to athena : histogram Socket Message Elapsed Messages Size Size Time Okay Errors Throughput bytes bytes secs # # 10^6bits/sec 9216 9216 10.01 13004 6587 95.81 Using Blowfish as the crypto algorithm rather than 3des, here's the results between the same machines: [root at caliban ~]# /usr/local/netperf/netperf -t UDP_STREAM -H secathena UDP UNIDIRECTIONAL SEND TEST to secathena : histogram Socket Message Elapsed Messages Size Size Time Okay Errors Throughput bytes bytes secs # # 10^6bits/sec 9216 9216 10.01 14744 0 108.63 108.63, greater than 100mbit max of the ethernet segment I was using, is due to using 'deflate' compression algorithm in IPsec. That's a 13% virtual "bandwidth" boost. Naturally, latency suffers. There's always a trade-off. With faster harder the negatives get smaller as the CPUs are able to do the crypto work much faster than the network can feed them. So, since I don't really trust RPC traffic for security, I create a VLAN and configure all hosts to only accept IPsec transport mode traffic on it. I then run my RPC services on that VLAN. It's even better than tcpwrappers/hosts.allow: I can cryptographically confirm that the host isn't spoofing it's IP. > I guess there is no practical (easy) way to have some extra accounts > on a LAN box while keeping the global users from the NFS server synced > too? NIS does that. NIS users are _in addition to_ existing local users. > Ironically, you (I think) recommended infrastructures.org, but I was > really wanting to solve my root read pull only specific config > problem; rsync push to each and every client from gold was never an > issue. But you win a couple drinks anyway. :-) Yup, that was me. I'm in a different country (hey, BSD lists are few and far between, I take what I can get) so I'll just have mine in spirit ;-) -T -- Do not consciously seek enlightenment. -Muso Kokushi From tillman Wed Oct 6 10:36:54 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:36:54 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: glider logo In-Reply-To: <20041006134914.GA18465@trot.local> References: <20041006134914.GA18465@trot.local> Message-ID: <20041006143654.GH35869@seekingfire.com> On Wed, Oct 06, 2004 at 09:49:14AM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:29:23PM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > >On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:34:19PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > >> interesting mouse over too... didn't dig it out of all the css, is it > >> free? > > > >Yup. It utilizes JavaScript, though, which annoys some folks ;-) > > seems doable with a css a:hover (now that that is availcbl. If someone takes on writing that, I'd love to get a copy of their code under an open license. I don't consider myself to be wizardly enough with css to do it myself with the small amount of spare time that I have available :-) -T -- Without a goal, a life is nothing. Sometimes the goal becomes a man's entire life, an all-consuming passion. But once that goal is achieved, what then? Oh, poor man, what then? - Lady Helena Atreides, her personal journals From j Thu Oct 7 07:30:54 2004 From: j (Freeman, Joshua) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:30:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] uh oh Message-ID: <319FD9EAB7A43E43895ACA5AA1F81E05F885CC@xmail.nybg.org> I'm at home on my OSX box. I'm running 'terminal'. I'm trying to ssh to my freebsd box at work. I've done it before without any problems. Today, I get this: buffer_get: trying to get more bytes 128 than in buffer 1 Does this mean the machine has been compromised in some way? If I ssh to a linux box on the same network and the ssh to the freebsd box, that works no problem. It's just ssh-ing from home to the box which is throwing that error. Like I said, this USED to work, no problem. We only set it up this past Monday. :-( J. Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041007/8e700799/attachment.html From dlavigne6 Thu Oct 7 09:33:30 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] sample magazine article Message-ID: <20041007090319.D581@dru.domain.org> Here's an example of a non-technical article written for a non-computer magazine. While this particular article is about Open Source rather than BSD, it still shows how to get the word out to an audience. If anyone is interested in how the author got "in" to the magazine, I can ask. Dru http://www.managementmag.com/index.cfm/ci_id/2007/la_id/1 From JBrown Thu Oct 7 10:28:18 2004 From: JBrown (Brown, James Jim) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:28:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] uh oh Message-ID: Hi Josh, There are references here: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2003-April/003306.html http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/121/261925/2002-03-08/2002-03-14/2 Looks like a damaged key. Hope this helps, Jim B. -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Sent: 10/7/04 7:30 AM Subject: [nycbug-talk] uh oh I'm at home on my OSX box. I'm running 'terminal'. I'm trying to ssh to my freebsd box at work. I've done it before without any problems. Today, I get this: buffer_get: trying to get more bytes 128 than in buffer 1 Does this mean the machine has been compromised in some way? If I ssh to a linux box on the same network and the ssh to the freebsd box, that works no problem. It's just ssh-ing from home to the box which is throwing that error. Like I said, this USED to work, no problem. We only set it up this past Monday. :-( J. Joshua S. Freeman Director, Information Technology, NYBG v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 jfreeman at nybg dot org <> Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ThruPoint, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041007/0f176173/attachment.html From tux Thu Oct 7 11:25:36 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:25:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBUG Banner Message-ID: <00a701c4ac81$e8aff1e0$0500a8c0@apollo> Just received confirmation from Michael Welsh that he's received the banner, so from now on it should (hopefully) be present at the meetings. I don't know if anyone in particular has been/will be appointed Official Keeper of the Banner, but whoever handles it, the biggest thing to remember when rolling it up after use is to roll it on the tube and keep the letters on the OUTSIDE so they don't get stretched/wrinkled. I'd prefer not to have to replace it every so often because the letters start to fall off (although the guy who made it would probably enjoy that :) -Kevin From jfreeman Thu Oct 7 11:19:38 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:19:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] uh oh In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Excellent.. Thanks Jim... I shoulda just googled in the first place... Doh! J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > From: "Brown, James (Jim)" > Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:28:18 -0400 > To: "'talk at lists.nycbug.org '" > Subject: RE: [nycbug-talk] uh oh > > Hi Josh, > > There are references here: > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2003-April/003306.html > http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/121/261925/2002-03-08/2002-03-14/2 > > Looks like a damaged key. > > Hope this helps, > Jim B. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org > To: talk at lists.nycbug.org > Sent: 10/7/04 7:30 AM > Subject: [nycbug-talk] uh oh > > I'm at home on my OSX box. I'm running 'terminal'. I'm trying to ssh > to my freebsd box at work. I've done it before without any problems. > > Today, I get this: > > buffer_get: trying to get more bytes 128 than in buffer 1 > > Does this mean the machine has been compromised in some way? > > If I ssh to a linux box on the same network and the ssh to the freebsd > box, that works no problem. It's just ssh-ing from home to the box > which is throwing that error. > > Like I said, this USED to work, no problem. We only set it up this past > Monday. > > :-( > > J. > > Joshua S. Freeman > Director, Information Technology, NYBG > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > jfreeman at nybg dot org > > > > > <> > > > Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and > confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message > is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for > delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from > your computer. Thank you. ThruPoint, Inc. > > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG (real_name)s mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From steve.rieger Thu Oct 7 15:30:57 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 15:30:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Reconfigure php4-snmp Message-ID: Net-snmp is installed as version 5, Now I would like to install php4-snmp but it has a saved configure which tells it to install for ucd-snmp, how can I unconfigure this, and tell him to install php4-snmp against the one installed currently (v5.) -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From george Fri Oct 8 00:34:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 00:34:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk Meeting Message-ID: <659033B4-18E3-11D9-B4CA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Great news. . . We have final confirmation on the room for Kirk's meeting Saturday, 2 pm, October 16th. It will be at Columbia University at 116th & Broadway (1/9 trains, or the "red line" for you tourists), Mathematics building, Rm. 312. Start spreading the word. . . IMO, this is the type of meeting that you should spam your address lists about. . . For those who aren't familiar with Kirk, check out www.mckusick.com. . . Big thanks to Ike on getting the room arranged. . . g From lists Fri Oct 8 09:20:23 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 09:20:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] de Raadt interview Message-ID: <20041008092023.7417a682@delinux.abwatley.com> Staying on the cutting edge By Sam Varghese Online Technology Editor October 8, 2004 - 12:00AM Winter has ended in Melbourne but I'm not the sort to venture out without at least a sweater. However, the cold doesn't seem to bother Theo de Raadt as we sit in the lobby of the city's Duxton Hotel, a day after the end of the annual summit of the Australian Unix and Open Source User Group. read the whole article: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/07/1097089476287.html "The Age" Melbourne's oldest newspaper, turns 150 on October 17 this year. -- --- From george Fri Oct 8 16:19:36 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:19:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . Message-ID: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Another bit about next week's meeting. . . We will not only have Kirk speaking on BSD history, but also Eric Allman, the creator of Sendmail, will be speaking about the sender id controversy. More details will be available on the www site and the flier, which we hope people will be able to distribute widely. . . g From matador-gtabug Fri Oct 8 16:30:12 2004 From: matador-gtabug (matador-gtabug at matadorsplace.com) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . In-Reply-To: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! As a user of qmail, I wish I could bring Dan Berstein to the forum as well. And let them duke it out. I'd pay to see that ! Go qmail ! Someone ask Mr. Allman why sendmail.cf is so long/crazy ? >From : http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/usail/mail/configuration/ --BEGIN-- The sendmail.cf has long been renowned for sending system administrators away fleeing in panic. Because sendmail has to read this file to find it's configuration every time it is invoked, the design of the file emphasizes easy computer parsing, rather than human sanity. So, it's not the easiest thing in the world to read and understand. Just take a look at it on any system; it has traditionally been described as looking like an explosion in a punctuation factory. --END-- I don't want to get into mail wars, hehehe, sorry. Everyone have a great Columbus Day ! We in Canada call it "Thanksgiving". You guys have that in November. --Matador (from GTABUG - Greater Toronto Area BSD Users Group) > Another bit about next week's meeting. . . > > We will not only have Kirk speaking on BSD history, but also Eric > Allman, the creator of Sendmail, will be speaking about the sender id > controversy. > > More details will be available on the www site and the flier, which we > hope people will be able to distribute widely. . . > > g > From rick Fri Oct 8 16:53:07 2004 From: rick (Rick Aliwalas) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . In-Reply-To: <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> References: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 matador-gtabug at matadorsplace.com wrote: > Someone ask Mr. Allman why sendmail.cf is so long/crazy ? As opposed to what, windows registry? ;) You're not supposed to edit the cf file anyway - just the mc file. Don't believe the hype. If I can manage to get sendmail working, it can't be all that bad... -rick From bob Fri Oct 8 17:31:05 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:31:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . In-Reply-To: References: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> Message-ID: <5C1E3C8E-1971-11D9-8CA6-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:53 PM, Rick Aliwalas wrote: > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 matador-gtabug at matadorsplace.com wrote: > >> Someone ask Mr. Allman why sendmail.cf is so long/crazy ? > > As opposed to what, windows registry? ;) > > You're not supposed to edit the cf file anyway - just the mc file. > Don't believe the hype. If I can manage to get sendmail working, it > can't be all that bad... There isn't really anything fundamentally wrong with the idea of a registry.. The fact that it's implemented as a single file database on Windows is kind of a pain, but actually working with key/value pairs in a standard way across ALL applications on the entire system isn't bad! If regedit displayed the information in a more useful way it would probably be much more acceptable. It's certainly not hard at all to manipulate the registry with scripts written in a language like Python or Perl (both of which work quite well on Windows). Mac OS X implements three vaguely similar systems, the SystemConfiguration database (designed for monitoring purposes.. stuff like the current network settings, battery level, and the airport signal strength go here), the NetInfo database (designed for more static local and domain configurations, basically like /etc), and the Preferences system (scattered amongst plist files in a few known locations: ~/Library/Preferences, /Library/Preferences, /Network/Library/Preferences, and /System/Library/Preferences, for configuring individual applications). The advantages of the Mac OS X system is that it's easy to migrate or remove the settings that matter to users (because they are just plist files, and applications always know how to recreate them if they don't exist), the highly volatile data (SystemConfiguration) is designed for performance and can be monitored asynchronously, and the NetInfo database is designed like LDAP for the same uses as LDAP (it currently integrates with LDAP and might be replaced by LDAP in the future...). Additionally, Mac OS X property lists support more data types (strings, numbers/booleans, dates, arrays, arbitrary data, and dictionaries) in a more consistent way than the Windows registry. -bob From george Fri Oct 8 23:30:48 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:30:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . In-Reply-To: <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> References: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> Message-ID: <9C8D934A-19A3-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 8, 2004, at 4:30 PM, matador-gtabug at matadorsplace.com wrote: > Ha ! Ha ! Ha ! > > As a user of qmail, I wish I could bring Dan Berstein to the forum as > well. And let them duke it out. > > I'd pay to see that ! > > Go qmail ! > > Someone ask Mr. Allman why sendmail.cf is so long/crazy ? (i have spent hours fighting through the cf file several years back, and at no moment enjoyed it. sometimes you *have* to on specific problems) this has been adequately answered. . . . but you should hear Eric's answers. . . blunt and to the point. . .at USENIX, his answers were uncharacteristic for a developer. . . "i don't know, they don't let me touch the code anymore" Self-deprecating and funny from someone, unlike DJB, whose mta *still* pushes most of the mail on the internet, as it has for decades. . . give me that over arrogance and software that hasn't progressed from 1.03 (or whatever qmail is at now). . .Eric is truly entertaining to listen to, and his technical history is obviously brilliant. I truly am looking forward to his talk on sender id and the ietf debates. . .he has been in the trenches on this. . . >> From : > http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/usail/mail/configuration/ > > --BEGIN-- > The sendmail.cf has long been renowned for sending system > administrators > away fleeing in panic. > > Because sendmail has to read this file to find it's configuration every > time it is invoked, the design of the file emphasizes easy computer > parsing, rather than human sanity. So, it's not the easiest thing in > the > world to read and understand. Just take a look at it on any system; it > has > traditionally been described as looking like an explosion in a > punctuation > factory. > --END-- > > I don't want to get into mail wars, hehehe, sorry. > > Everyone have a great Columbus Day ! > > We in Canada call it "Thanksgiving". You guys have that in November. > > --Matador (from GTABUG - Greater Toronto Area BSD Users Group) > >> Another bit about next week's meeting. . . >> >> We will not only have Kirk speaking on BSD history, but also Eric >> Allman, the creator of Sendmail, will be speaking about the sender id >> controversy. >> >> More details will be available on the www site and the flier, which we >> hope people will be able to distribute widely. . . >> >> g >> > > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From george Fri Oct 8 23:32:28 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:32:28 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] chownat ? In-Reply-To: <200409261429.25302.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200409261429.25302.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041009033228.GB17954@trot.local> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 02:29:25PM -0400, Sunny Dubey wrote: >A while back, George G. posted a link to some great software known has >chownat. > >Problem is the link is awol (you need a user/pw to view the page). The >freshmeat entry for it is gone too. Oh! here it is ;-) // George #!/usr/bin/perl # # Copyright (c) 2004 Samy Kamkar # # chownat, pronounced "chone nat", v0.07-beta # developed 08/16/04 # # chownat allows two peers behind two seperate NATs # with NO port forwarding and NO DMZ to communicate # with each other. more importantly, it opens up a # tunnel between the two machines so one peer can # access a service, such as a web server, on the other # machine which is also behind a NAT. there is NO # middle man, NO proxy, NO 3rd party, and the # application runs as an unprivileged user on both # ends. # # example usage: # nat1 w/ssh server$ ./chownat.pl -d -s 22 nat2.com # nat2$ ./chownat.pl -d -c 1234 nat1.com # # nat2 runs `ssh -p 1234 username at localhost` to ssh as 'username' to # machine nat1 and gets right through any NATs on either or both sides # # ####################################################################### # check for correct usage my ($DEBUG, $mode, $localport, $remoteaddr, $remoteport) = &usage(); my $localhost = "localhost"; my $size = 4096; use strict; use Socket; use IO::Select; &debug("Opening socket on port $remoteport"); socket(CHOWNAT, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp")) or die "socket: $!"; bind(CHOWNAT, sockaddr_in($remoteport, INADDR_ANY)) || die "bind: $!"; $remoteaddr = inet_aton($remoteaddr); $remoteport = sockaddr_in($remoteport, $remoteaddr); # client mode if ($mode eq "-c") { # open a port on the machine to allow connections &client_bind($localport); # we received a connection to the local port while (my $ipaddr = accept(SOCK, WAITCLI)) { &debug("Received a connection to the local port"); # establish a "connection" with the remote chownat &client_chownat_connect(); my %connections; my $id = 0; my $expected = 0; my $select = IO::Select->new(\*SOCK, \*CHOWNAT); my $command; my $inputlen; my @ready; my $closed = 0; my @buffer; while (!$closed) { while (@ready = $select->can_read(5)) { foreach my $fh (@ready) { if (fileno($fh) == fileno(SOCK)) { # Read a buffer full of data unless (sysread($fh, $_, $size)) { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 1Attempting to disconnect"); &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; $closed = 1; } else { $buffer[$id] = $_; send(CHOWNAT, "09" . chr($id++) . $_, 0, $remoteport); } } else { # We got a packet from the remote CHOWNAT unless (recv($fh, $command, $size, 0)) { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 2Attempting to disconnect"); &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; $closed = 1; } next unless length($command)>=3; # ignore keep-alives my $data = substr($command, 3, length($command)-3, ""); # remote NAT wants to close the connection if ($command eq "02\n") { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 3Attempting to disconnect"); &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; $closed = 1; } # connection opened elsif ($command eq "03\n") { next; } # remote chownat is missing some packets elsif ($command =~ /^08(.)/s) { my $got = ord($1); &debug("Remote host needs packet $got, we're on $id"); foreach ($got .. $id - 1) { send(CHOWNAT, "09" . chr($_) . $buffer[$_], 0, $remoteport); } } # Got data from remote CHOWNAT for our local socket elsif ($command =~ /^09(.)/s) { my $got = ord($1); &debug("Got packet $got, expected packet $expected", ($got == $expected ? 4 : 1)); # make sure this is the expected packet if ($got != $expected) { &debug("Asking for packet $expected"); # we got the wrong packet, ask for the right one send(CHOWNAT, "08" . chr($expected), 0, $remoteport); } else { # send data from remote chownat to our client send(SOCK, $data, 0); $expected = 0 if $expected++ == 255; } } } # else } # foreach fh } # while select # Send keep-alive send(CHOWNAT, "", 0, $remoteport); } # while not closed } # while accept exit; } # server mode elsif ($mode eq "-s") { my $select = IO::Select->new(\*CHOWNAT); my $command; my @ready; my @buffer; my $id = 0; my $expected = 0; while (1) { while(@ready = $select->can_read(5)) { foreach my $fh (@ready) { if (fileno(SOCK) && fileno $fh == fileno SOCK) { # send to chownat unless (sysread($fh, $_, $size)) { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 4Attempting to disconnect"); &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; } else { $buffer[$id] = $_; send(CHOWNAT, "09". chr($id++) . $_, 0, $remoteport); } } # send to client else { unless (recv($fh, $command, $size, 0)) { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 5Attempting to disconnect"); &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; } next unless length($command)>=3; # ignore keep-alives my $data = substr($command, 3, length($command)-3, ""); # user is trying to connect to me -- new connection if ($command eq "01\n") { # send back "you're connected!" &debug("REMOTE: 6Attempted to connect to us, initializing connection"); &server_chownat_connect($remoteport); # open a real connection to the local port we are tunneling my $paddr = sockaddr_in($localport, inet_aton($localhost)); # close any SOCK that might already be open close(SOCK); socket(SOCK, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, getprotobyname('tcp')) || die "socket: $!"; connect(SOCK, $paddr) || die "Can't open socket to $localhost:$localport: $!"; &debug("Connection to local daemon (port $localport) opened"); $select->add(\*SOCK); } # user is disconnecting elsif ($command eq "02\n") { $id = 0; $expected = 0; @buffer = (); &debug("REMOTE: 7Attempting to disconnect"); # &chownat_disconnect($remoteport); # send(CHOWNAT,"02\n",0,$remoteport); $select->remove(\*SOCK); close SOCK; } # user is handshaking elsif ($command eq "03\n") { &debug("REMOTE: handshake", 5); send(CHOWNAT, "03\n", 0, $remoteport); next; } # remote chownat is missing some packets elsif ($command =~ /^08(.)/s) { my $got = ord($1); &debug("Remote host needs packet $got, we're on $id"); foreach ($got .. $id - 1) { send(CHOWNAT, "09" . chr($_) . $buffer[$_], 0, $remoteport); } } # Got data from remote CHOWNAT for our local socket elsif ($command =~ /^09(.)/s) { my $got = ord($1); &debug("Got packet $got, expected packet $expected", ($got == $expected ? 4 : 1)); # make sure this is the expected packet if ($got != $expected) { # we got the wrong packet, ask for the right one send(CHOWNAT, "08" . chr($expected), 0, $remoteport); } else { # send data from remote chownat to our client send(SOCK, $data, 0); $expected = 0 if $expected++ == 255; } } } #else } #foreach fh } #while select #Send keep-alive send(CHOWNAT, "", 0, $remoteport); } #while not closed } else { die "Invalid mode.\n"; } sub usage { my $debug = 0; if ($ARGV[0] eq "-d") { $debug++; shift(@ARGV); } if ($ARGV[0] eq "-d") { $debug++; shift(@ARGV); } if ($ARGV[0] eq "-dd") { $debug = 2; shift(@ARGV); } $ARGV[3] ||= 2222; die << "EOF" chownat 0.07-beta usage: $0 [-d] <-c|-s> [communication port] -d debug mode, two -d's for verbose debug mode -c client mode, you connect other applications to localhost:local_port and it tunnels to the dest host -s server mode, anyone who connects to you gets tunneled to whatever is already running on localhost:local_port local port to listen on or connect to depending on if -c or -s is used destination host to connect to or allow connections from [comm port] port to communicate on, default of 2222 example: on machine \"nat1\" running an ssh server behind a nat: nat1\$ ./chownat.pl -d -s 22 nat2.com on machine \"nat2\" behind another nat: nat2\$ ./chownat.pl -d -c 1234 nat1.com nat2 can now run `ssh -p 1234 username\@localhost` to ssh as 'username' to nat1 and break straight through both NATs / firewalls EOF if @ARGV != 4 || $ARGV[0] !~ /^-[cs]$/ || $ARGV[1] !~ /^\d+$/ || $ARGV[2] =~ /[^a-zA-Z\d.-]/ || $ARGV[3] !~ /^\d+$/; return ($debug, @ARGV); } sub debug { my $msg = shift; $msg =~ s/\r?\n//g; print "DEBUG: $msg\n" if (shift > 1 ? $DEBUG > 1 : $DEBUG >= 1); } # server side -- accepts and establishes a connection with the remote chownat sub server_chownat_connect { my $data; while (1) { &debug("Connecting.."); send(CHOWNAT, "03\n", 0, $_[0]); eval { $SIG{ALRM}=sub{die}; alarm(1); recv(CHOWNAT,$data,3,0); alarm(0); }; # we're connected if ($data eq "03\n") { &debug("REMOTE: Connection opened to remote end"); last; } } return 1; } # client side -- establishes a connection with the remote chownat sub client_chownat_connect { my $data; # open up a connection to the remote side &debug("Opening a connection to the remote end"); while (1) { &debug("8Attempting to connect.."); # open the connection send(CHOWNAT, "01\n", 0, $remoteport); eval { $SIG{ALRM}=sub{die}; alarm(1); recv(CHOWNAT,$data,$size,0); alarm(0); }; # we're connected if ($data eq "03\n") { send(CHOWNAT, "03\n", 0, $remoteport); &debug("REMOTE: Connection opened to remote end"); last; } select(undef, undef, undef, 0.25); } return 1; } # client side -- binds a socket to allow local connections sub client_bind { my $localport = shift; &debug("Binding a new socket to $localport"); socket(WAITCLI, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, getprotobyname('tcp')); setsockopt(WAITCLI, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, pack("l", 1)); bind(WAITCLI, sockaddr_in($localport, INADDR_ANY)) || die "Cannot bind to $localport: $!\n"; listen(WAITCLI, 1); } # disconnect from remote chownat sub chownat_disconnect { my $data; &debug("9Attempting to disconnect"); # let the remote NAT know we're disconnecting &debug("Trying to disconnect.."); send(CHOWNAT, "02\n", 0, $_[0]); eval { $SIG{ALRM} = sub { die }; alarm(1); recv(CHOWNAT,$data,3,0); alarm(0); }; if ($data eq "02\n") { send(CHOWNAT, "02\n", 0, $_[0]); } &debug("REMOTE: Disconnected"); } From george Fri Oct 8 23:42:25 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 23:42:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] de Raadt interview In-Reply-To: <20041008092023.7417a682@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041008092023.7417a682@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <3BF03014-19A5-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 8, 2004, at 9:20 AM, michael wrote: > Staying on the cutting edge > By Sam Varghese > Online Technology Editor > October 8, 2004 - 12:00AM > > Winter has ended in Melbourne but I'm not the sort to venture out > without at least a sweater. However, the cold doesn't seem to bother > Theo de Raadt as we sit in the lobby of the city's Duxton Hotel, a day > after the end of the annual summit of the Australian Unix and Open > Source User Group. > > read the whole article: > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/07/1097089476287.html > I think the point about vendors and open source is fascinating. The general attitude has been that the open source community needs the vendors. But there are specific issues not to be flexible on, like licensing. More generally, I think we can't just idealize the relation that IBM, eg, has to Linux and claim that it's somehow the direction that the BSDs need to move. It's like the coke or pepsi funding the Olympics. It seems like some selfless sacrifice of funds to fund some harmless sports event. It ended up that the primary soda sponsor made sure no one with the other soda in hand was allowed in the stadium, or that if the other logo was on your shirt, you had to turn it inside out. okay, a stretch. . .but. . .i'm tired and the yankees just won. g From george Sun Oct 10 15:38:54 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:38:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] batteries. . . Message-ID: <057133C4-1AF4-11D9-8162-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Almost every time I google on battery-related issues, this site comes up. . . Seems like a decent resource on everything from cell phones to laptop batteries. . . http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm g From okan Tue Oct 12 08:38:18 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:38:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nysa Message-ID: <20041012123818.GB76040@yinaska.pair.com> not sure how many people are on nysa, but there's a meeting tomorrow night if anyone is interested: (sorry pete :) http://www.nysa.org/meetings.html okan -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From dlavigne6 Tue Oct 12 08:51:10 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] sample magazine article Message-ID: <20041012085051.N565@dru.domain.org> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Brown, James (Jim) wrote: > ... > BSD, it still shows how to get the word out to an audience. If anyone is > interested in how the author got "in" to the magazine, I can ask. > ... > > > Hi Dru, > > I'm interested, yes. I'd like to devote more time to writing, > as soon as my life slows down to a 31 hour day. I had a chance to talk with the author on Friday. In this particular case, the magazine contacted him. He's an economist who happens to be quite vocal about Open Source. Someone who had heard him speak knew an editor at CMP Media and suggested to him that he contact the author for an article. Dru From jfreeman Tue Oct 12 12:56:48 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:56:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb Message-ID: Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on freebsd 4 stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. TIA, J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From tillman Tue Oct 12 12:59:56 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:59:56 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 12:56:48PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on freebsd 4 > stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb Thought running the /etc/periodic/weekly/310.locate script is probably a better idea. -T -- "Never appeal to a man's ``better nature.'' He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage." -- Robert Heinlein From scottro Tue Oct 12 13:10:39 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:10:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> References: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:59:56AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 12:56:48PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > > Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on freebsd 4 > > stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. > > /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb > > Thought running the /etc/periodic/weekly/310.locate script is probably a > better idea. Quick note (not a lecture, just point of info as judging from your posts you're always eager to learn--Josh, that is--err, not that Tillman isn't eager to learn, uh, oh the heck with it :) ). Doing a man locate would have given you the information. (If you forget in the future, once you do man locate, just page down to the end, where they list the files....errr, not that it ever happens to me, you understand but, err uh, a friend of mine--yeah, that's it, a friend of mine, sometimes has that problem) :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Willow, you're alive. Willow: Aren't I usually? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBbBAP+lTVdes0Z9YRAvyzAKC5fGrjATIrb9VOmm3BrK3+Xuia2QCgiPk6 PBXn9MUoZcUC/7SpoLLcu4w= =K57w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tillman Tue Oct 12 13:23:10 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:23:10 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> References: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20041012172310.GH89784@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 01:10:39PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:59:56AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 12:56:48PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > > > Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on freebsd 4 > > > stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. > > > > /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb > > > > Thought running the /etc/periodic/weekly/310.locate script is probably a > > better idea. [typo. s/Thought/though/] > Quick note (not a lecture, just point of info as judging from your posts > you're always eager to learn--Josh, that is--err, not that Tillman isn't > eager to learn, uh, oh the heck with it :) ). Already finished that second cup of coffee, eh? ;-) -T -- Page xxviii: More than any other computer system today, Unix will repay every moment that you spend learning and experimenting. - Harley Hahn, _The Unix Companion_ From scottro Tue Oct 12 13:38:06 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:38:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: <20041012172310.GH89784@seekingfire.com> References: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> <20041012172310.GH89784@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041012173806.GA3754@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:23:10AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 01:10:39PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:59:56AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > > Quick note (not a lecture, just point of info as judging from your posts > > you're always eager to learn--Josh, that is--err, not that Tillman isn't > > eager to learn, uh, oh the heck with it :) ). > > Already finished that second cup of coffee, eh? ;-) Oh puhleezeee--I'm on my 4th bottle of Diet Mountain Dew, with one of the highest caffeine contents in the US. :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: I wish dating was like slaying. You know, simple, direct, stake through the heart, no muss, no fuss. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBbBZ++lTVdes0Z9YRArevAKC/wT+uFUZKE+CMCghVtTGJGnJOYgCeLBis nlEYmfuPlSg2un7yiBv7f2I= =IysU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tillman Tue Oct 12 13:41:18 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:41:18 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: <20041012173806.GA3754@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> References: <20041012165956.GF89784@seekingfire.com> <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> <20041012172310.GH89784@seekingfire.com> <20041012173806.GA3754@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <20041012174118.GI89784@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 01:38:06PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:23:10AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > > > > Already finished that second cup of coffee, eh? ;-) > > Oh puhleezeee--I'm on my 4th bottle of Diet Mountain Dew, with one of > the highest caffeine contents in the US. :) /me uses a straight face It doesn't show, really. ;-) -T -- "If liberty and equality, as is thought by some are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost." -- Aristotle, _Politics_ From jesse Tue Oct 12 14:18:23 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:18:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ABEF5BC-1C7B-11D9-8BEE-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> I see a whole host of replies. But I'll chime in.... use a more primitive and more powerful tool called 'find' find / -name updatedb also check out your cron jobs. There's probably a weekly job to run locate.updatedb in there. On Oct 12, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on > freebsd 4 > stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. > > TIA, > > J. > > > -- > > COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ > Joshua S. Freeman > Dir. of Information Technology > New York Botanical Garden > v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 > > This message (including any attachments) contains confidential > information > intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific > purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended > recipient, you > should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution > of > this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly > prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From jfreeman Tue Oct 12 15:52:26 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:52:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb In-Reply-To: <20041012171039.GB3474@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: Thanks Scott! I appreciate it! Doh! I shoulda thought of it myself! J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > From: Scott Robbins > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:10:39 -0400 > To: "NYCBUG discussion list > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Updatedb > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 10:59:56AM -0600, Tillman Hodgson wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 12:56:48PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: >>> Can someone kindly tell me where the command 'updatedb' lives on freebsd 4 >>> stable? I need to update the 'locate' database. >> >> /usr/libexec/locate.updatedb >> >> Thought running the /etc/periodic/weekly/310.locate script is probably a >> better idea. > > Quick note (not a lecture, just point of info as judging from your posts > you're always eager to learn--Josh, that is--err, not that Tillman isn't > eager to learn, uh, oh the heck with it :) ). > > Doing a > > man locate > > would have given you the information. (If you forget in the future, > once you do man locate, just page down to the end, where they list the > files....errr, not that it ever happens to me, you understand but, err > uh, a friend of mine--yeah, that's it, a friend of mine, sometimes has > that problem) :) > > > - -- > > Scott > > GPG KeyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Buffy: Willow, you're alive. > Willow: Aren't I usually? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFBbBAP+lTVdes0Z9YRAvyzAKC5fGrjATIrb9VOmm3BrK3+Xuia2QCgiPk6 > PBXn9MUoZcUC/7SpoLLcu4w= > =K57w > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From george Tue Oct 12 17:10:55 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:10:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Eric Allman/Kirk McKusick meeting this Saturday Message-ID: <34DC48DE-1C93-11D9-85E2-000D9328615E@sddi.net> We're getting the word out for the meeting this Saturday, but it would be great if other NYCBUG members posted and got fliers around. The beautiful flier (thanks to Ike) is available on the homepage. If you need a blurb to copy and paste to other sites, you can use what I posted to Daemon News. This should be a great meeting, and I hope everyone is looking forward to it as much as I am. There will be a raffle, with books and gift certificates from Computer Book Works (78 Reade Street just above City Hall) available. g From spork Tue Oct 12 17:18:46 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Eric Allman/Kirk McKusick meeting this Saturday In-Reply-To: <34DC48DE-1C93-11D9-85E2-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <34DC48DE-1C93-11D9-85E2-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: This looks like it's going to be a great meeting... I have a quick question for anyone more familiar with the Upper West Side than I am. If I come in for this, I have to drive since trains don't run on the weekend from here (Montclair, NJ). Is parking a serious pain up around Columbia? Any garages that are reasonably priced? Thanks, Charles On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > We're getting the word out for the meeting this Saturday, but it would be > great if other NYCBUG members posted and got fliers around. > > The beautiful flier (thanks to Ike) is available on the homepage. If you > need a blurb to copy and paste to other sites, you can use what I posted to > Daemon News. > > This should be a great meeting, and I hope everyone is looking forward to it > as much as I am. > > There will be a raffle, with books and gift certificates from Computer Book > Works (78 Reade Street just above City Hall) available. > > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From okan Tue Oct 12 17:59:00 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:59:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Eric Allman/Kirk McKusick meeting this Saturday In-Reply-To: References: <34DC48DE-1C93-11D9-85E2-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041012215900.GA92726@yinaska.pair.com> On Tue 2004.10.12 at 17:18 -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > This looks like it's going to be a great meeting... > > I have a quick question for anyone more familiar with the Upper West Side > than I am. If I come in for this, I have to drive since trains don't run > on the weekend from here (Montclair, NJ). Is parking a serious pain up > around Columbia? Any garages that are reasonably priced? Reasonable priced? heh. Well, you have one at 97th, btw Broadway and West End. Then you have a few at 116th(and 120th) and Seminary (one West of Broadway). I have no idea what the prices are though, I don't have a car ;) Yes, parking can be a pain in the area(from recent memory with a borrowed pick-up truck for moving), but since the meeting is on a weekend, it may be much better. Parking on Riverside Drive is usually a good bet too. Since it is the weekend, Broadway, Amsterdam and 120th Street have non-metered parking on the weekend, for the most part. Good Luck, Okan > Thanks, > > Charles > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >We're getting the word out for the meeting this Saturday, but it would be > >great if other NYCBUG members posted and got fliers around. > > > >The beautiful flier (thanks to Ike) is available on the homepage. If you > >need a blurb to copy and paste to other sites, you can use what I posted > >to Daemon News. > > > >This should be a great meeting, and I hope everyone is looking forward to > >it as much as I am. > > > >There will be a raffle, with books and gift certificates from Computer > >Book Works (78 Reade Street just above City Hall) available. > > > >g > > > >_______________________________________________ > >talk talk mailing list > >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >% Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > >% We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From krook Tue Oct 12 19:39:05 2004 From: krook (Daniel Krook) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:39:05 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Eric Allman/Kirk McKusick meeting this Saturday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Is parking a serious pain up > around Columbia? It can be, but I lived on 118th between Amsterdam and Morningside drive until May of this year and didn't have much trouble finding a spot for my truck very often. >From the West Side Highway going south, get off at 125th, then continue straight past Fairway till the stop sign before the on ramp. Take a left and continue straight onto 125th street, then take a right onto Amsterdam Ave heading south. Take a left onto 118th (just before the Law School overpass) and troll there, or continue on to take a left on onto Morningside and then another left onto 119th. You're pretty much guaranteed to find a spot quick by circling that block. From there it's a five minute walk to the center of campus. Good luck. Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From lists Wed Oct 13 08:31:15 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:31:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD UPDATING Message-ID: <20041013083115.6c9f1235@delinux.abwatley.com> If you are not on the FreeBSD announce list... "This is a belated announcement of the new ``/usr/ports/UPDATING'' file. Like its counterpart in /usr/src, this file lists special updating instructions and caveats. " Read the whole post: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2004-October/000962.html -- --- From scottro Wed Oct 13 10:28:37 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:28:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD UPDATING In-Reply-To: <20041013083115.6c9f1235@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041013083115.6c9f1235@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <20041013142837.GA1163@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:31:15AM -0400, michael wrote: > If you are not on the FreeBSD announce list... > > "This is a belated announcement of the new ``/usr/ports/UPDATING'' file. > Like its counterpart in /usr/src, this file lists special updating > instructions and caveats. " > > Read the whole post: > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2004-October/000962.html The big issues here are the library version bumps. One thing that, judging from freebsdforums.org many people are not clear about is whether or not all ports and packages must be updated, and if so, can one then remove the old libraries. Judging from experiences posted on the forums, yes, one should probably upgrade all ports. However, once doing so, some things still need the old libraries--for instance, native opera even if built from ports is a binary rather than a source package. The workaround here is cd /usr/src/lib/compat/compat4x.i386 make depend && make && make install This has pretty much worked for everyone. (Thanks to phoenix on FreeBSDforums for the tip) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Joyce: You belong in a good old fashioned college with keg parties and boys. Not here with Hellmouths and vampires. Buffy: Not really seeing the distinction. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBbTuU+lTVdes0Z9YRApIwAKCk3BkmER8Dv2r6dkJChUdCagNA1QCZAW4z 0mcYD2aBCFMVeVRYTITcMhI= =jorF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From george Tue Oct 12 18:42:50 2004 From: george (george at rob.us.to) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] meeting update. . . References: <601E0F0C-1967-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <36006.199.212.243.14.1097267412.squirrel@199.212.243.14> <9C8D934A-19A3-11D9-BC85-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <200410122242.i9CMgoGB025797@localhost.localdomain> it took me a while to write a sendmail.cf ruleset but it was worth it. (or maybe not, now that i've invested a bit of time.) so in honor of eric's speech, i offer my ruleset to anyone who wants it. it allows me to relay through another smtp server using a modified version of the %-hack. so if spam rules prevent me from sending email directly (which I prefer) to, say, john at hotmail.com, i can route it through my mail host with john%hotmail.com at rob.us.to. SParseLocal=98 R$* % $* < @ $* > $* $1 @ $2 < @ $3 > $4 R$* @ $* @ $* < @ $* > $* $1 % $2 @ $3 < @ $4 > $5 R$* @ $* < @ $* > $* $: $>MailerToTriple < $3 > $1 < @ $2 > $4 From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 13 14:41:08 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license Message-ID: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license for those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the differences between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the BSD license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. Dru From ike Wed Oct 13 14:46:45 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:46:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <3B97BEAC-1D48-11D9-BBB6-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi Dru, All, On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:41 PM, Dru wrote: > > I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license > for those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so > explanation: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing > > Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the > differences between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the > benefits of the BSD license? My audience will be government and mostly > non-technical. > > Dru In that context, I really like to direct folks to the Open Source Initiative, as they are pretty license agnostic, and provide great comparisons and information at their site, as well as a boatload of licenses: http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ Rocket- .ike From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 13 15:08:08 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <3B97BEAC-1D48-11D9-BBB6-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> <3B97BEAC-1D48-11D9-BBB6-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041013150759.V581@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Dru, All, > > On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:41 PM, Dru wrote: > >> >> I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license for >> those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so explanation: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing >> >> Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the differences >> between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the BSD >> license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. >> >> Dru > > In that context, I really like to direct folks to the Open Source Initiative, > as they are pretty license agnostic, and provide great comparisons and > information at their site, as well as a boatload of licenses: > > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ Yup, saw that but wasn't really impressed with their explanation of the BSD license. There will be copies of "Understanding Open Source and Free Software Licensing" available at the trade show. However, since there didn't seem to be an existing slide presentation regarding the BSDs available for trade show use (not that I could find), I'm going to make my slides available so the next person doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. Would the group like to make comment on the rough draft of the slides? Right now they're in .sxi (OpenOffice Impress) format but I can convert to a PDF. If I can't attach to the list, I can upload them to www.theopensourceadvocate.org . I also can't seem to get colour into my slides. This is probably due to the fact that I've never created slides before. Any tips on how to jazz up the slides are certainly appreciated :-) Dru From jesse Wed Oct 13 20:06:19 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:06:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041013150759.V581@dru.domain.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> <3B97BEAC-1D48-11D9-BBB6-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041013150759.V581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: On Oct 13, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Dru wrote: > > > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Hi Dru, All, >> >> On Oct 13, 2004, at 2:41 PM, Dru wrote: >> >>> I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD >>> license for those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this >>> so-so explanation: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing >>> Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the >>> differences between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the >>> benefits of the BSD license? My audience will be government and >>> mostly non-technical. >>> Dru >> >> In that context, I really like to direct folks to the Open Source >> Initiative, as they are pretty license agnostic, and provide great >> comparisons and information at their site, as well as a boatload of >> licenses: >> >> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/ > > > Yup, saw that but wasn't really impressed with their explanation of > the BSD license. There will be copies of "Understanding Open Source > and Free Software Licensing" available at the trade show. However, > since there didn't seem to be an existing slide presentation regarding > the BSDs available for trade show use (not that I could find), I'm > going to make my slides available so the next person doesn't have to > reinvent the wheel. > > Would the group like to make comment on the rough draft of the slides? > Right now they're in .sxi (OpenOffice Impress) format but I can > convert to a PDF. If I can't attach to the list, I can upload them to > www.theopensourceadvocate.org . > > I also can't seem to get colour into my slides. This is probably due > to the fact that I've never created slides before. Any tips on how to > jazz up the slides are certainly appreciated :-) > > Dru > The list seems to be happy with attachments. From george Thu Oct 14 01:31:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 01:31:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Friday night. . . Message-ID: <4B79FDD2-1DA2-11D9-9A81-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Dru Lavigne will be coming into town, and equally, if not more important , the Yankees will be looking to take three in a row from their New England lessers on Friday night. For those who don't know, Dru regularly writes for O'Reilly's OnLamp and is the author of BSD Hacks. She also happens to be on this list . . . Whoever is around, feel free to come by my place. . .email me offlist for directions. Open invite, bring beer. g From SKiefer Thu Oct 14 01:40:39 2004 From: SKiefer (SKiefer at bigben-interactive.de) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:40:39 +0200 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: talk Digest, Vol 11, Issue 10 Message-ID: <05462752802344@mail.bigben-interactive.de> Vielen Dank f?r Ihre Nachricht! Ich bin am Donnerstag, den 21.10.2004 wieder im Haus. In dringenden F?llen erreichen Sie mich Mobil : 0174-3474064 ch werde Ihnen schnellstm?glich antworten, sobald ich wieder im Haus bin. Thank you for your mail. I am out of the office until thursday, october 21th 2004. In urgent cases please call me on my cellphone contact +49 174 34 740 64 I will get back to you as soon I am back in the office. Viele Gr??e, best regards, Stefan Kiefer From jesse Thu Oct 14 02:21:19 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:21:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD UPDATING In-Reply-To: <20041013142837.GA1163@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> References: <20041013083115.6c9f1235@delinux.abwatley.com> <20041013142837.GA1163@nyserve1.starlofashions.com> Message-ID: <42C89692-1DA9-11D9-AB4B-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> On Oct 13, 2004, at 10:28 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:31:15AM -0400, michael wrote: >> If you are not on the FreeBSD announce list... >> >> "This is a belated announcement of the new ``/usr/ports/UPDATING'' >> file. >> Like its counterpart in /usr/src, this file lists special updating >> instructions and caveats. " >> >> Read the whole post: >> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2004-October/ >> 000962.html > > The big issues here are the library version bumps. One thing that, > judging from freebsdforums.org many people are not clear about is > whether or not all ports and packages must be updated, and if so, can > one then remove the old libraries. > > Judging from experiences posted on the forums, yes, one should probably > upgrade all ports. However, once doing so, some things still need the > old libraries--for instance, native opera even if built from ports is a > binary rather than a source package. The workaround here is > > cd /usr/src/lib/compat/compat4x.i386 > make depend && make && make install Ok. So try going into where the dependencies were and rebuild them? I don't know much about how shared libraries are registered. What does this do in the case of this Opera upgrade? > > This has pretty much worked for everyone. (Thanks to phoenix on > FreeBSDforums for the tip) > > > - -- > > Scott > > GPG KeyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Joyce: You belong in a good old fashioned college with keg > parties and boys. Not here with Hellmouths and vampires. > Buffy: Not really seeing the distinction. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFBbTuU+lTVdes0Z9YRApIwAKCk3BkmER8Dv2r6dkJChUdCagNA1QCZAW4z > 0mcYD2aBCFMVeVRYTITcMhI= > =jorF > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From steve.rieger Thu Oct 14 10:33:20 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:33:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Couple a questions Message-ID: This is a bit long and contains many different topics, so I apologize if I got you thinking too hard..... Am currently replicating mysql, and using freevrpd to have failover, the primary mysql server created the bin files that grow quite large, (there are about 20 db's and 4 are very intensive with a lot of transactions) in the past 24 hours the files grew to 41 MG's is there a way to do a logrotate on this, and how. For security reasons I want to save the command histories of all my users to a file that they can not edit, if I were to change the permissions on the .profile to read only how would I tell the shell to save all the commands and not only the last 100, how would I tell the sh to save the history to a protected file. Does anybody know of an external sata drive that has raid capabilities and can be connected to 2 servers at the same time that works with freebsd 4.10 Am in the process of setting up rsync to mirror my primary box to the failover, problem I have is that rsync does not have read permissions (on the master server) on some files that I want to rsync, namely the mysql databases, and some .htaccess etc... files, how can I get around this Is there a better way of mirroring /usr/local/www, /var/db/mysql, and a few other dir, betwix two servers. Thanx for reading hope y'all (spent some time in alabama, (ex- military)) have a great day -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From pete Thu Oct 14 10:22:24 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax Message-ID: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> hey, does anyone know of a good reference for PS1 syntax in tcsh specifically, and even better would be a ref. for .tcshrc in general. i'd like to have my PS1 truncate the path after a certain amount of chars so i don't end up with a commandline like this: [wright at korna]/shots/edu/trnpst_wright/pix/out/trnpst_wright_tt17a_comp_v44/tvfa_lg10> i know if several good bash PS1 configs...but i'm not too sure if they are portable to csh and tcsh. -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From bob Thu Oct 14 11:00:24 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:00:24 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax In-Reply-To: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 10:22 AM, pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > does anyone know of a good reference for PS1 syntax in tcsh > specifically, and even better would be a ref. for .tcshrc in general. > i'd like to have my PS1 truncate the path after a certain amount of > chars so i don't end up with a commandline like this: > > [wright at korna]/shots/edu/trnpst_wright/pix/out/ > trnpst_wright_tt17a_comp_v44/tvfa_lg10> > > i know if several good bash PS1 configs...but i'm not too sure if they > are > portable to csh and tcsh. I don't think PS1 is even used with tcsh, I think that is a bash thing.. I've always used "set prompt" in tcsh.. look in the man page under prompt for all the %commands. -bob From pete Thu Oct 14 10:37:21 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax In-Reply-To: References: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <4143.160.33.20.11.1097764641.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > On Oct 14, 2004, at 10:22 AM, pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > >> does anyone know of a good reference for PS1 syntax in tcsh >> specifically, and even better would be a ref. for .tcshrc in general. >> i'd like to have my PS1 truncate the path after a certain amount of >> chars so i don't end up with a commandline like this: >> >> [wright at korna]/shots/edu/trnpst_wright/pix/out/ >> trnpst_wright_tt17a_comp_v44/tvfa_lg10> >> >> i know if several good bash PS1 configs...but i'm not too sure if they >> are >> portable to csh and tcsh. > > I don't think PS1 is even used with tcsh, I think that is a bash > thing.. I've always used "set prompt" in tcsh.. look in the man page > under prompt for all the %commands. > yea i realized that after i send the email regarding PS1. unfortunatly i'm on a linux box w/ typical linux man's....i also don't have access to any of my outside boxen that would probably have real online doc :( -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From pete Thu Oct 14 11:36:11 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax In-Reply-To: References: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <4143.160.33.20.11.1097764641.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <31579.160.33.20.11.1097768171.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > I've attached a bunch of .tschrc files from > http://tcshrc.sourceforge.net/ they should give you a good foundation > for the prompt and various other options that you can set with tcshrc. > cool thanks, i saw that on sf.net, so i suppose you've had good success with this then... cheers! pete ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From desecrate Thu Oct 14 12:12:15 2004 From: desecrate (desecrate) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 12:12:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax In-Reply-To: <31579.160.33.20.11.1097768171.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <4143.160.33.20.11.1097764641.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <31579.160.33.20.11.1097768171.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: There is only 2 problem's i have had with it thus far. 1) You have to edit the Makefile and change this line (using FreeBSD 5.3-BETA7): /bin/cp -u src/tcshrc.local $(HOME)/.tcshrc.local to /bin/cp -f src/tcshrc.local $(HOME)/.tcshrc.local because the -u causes an error 2) You have edit the .tcshrc.alias file and change: alias ls 'ls --color' to alias ls 'ls -G' the --color causes ls to fail, -G does the color instead From pete Thu Oct 14 11:49:23 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] tcsh PS1 syntax In-Reply-To: References: <64898.160.33.20.11.1097763744.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <4143.160.33.20.11.1097764641.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <31579.160.33.20.11.1097768171.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <41040.160.33.20.11.1097768963.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > There is only 2 problem's i have had with it thus far. > > 1) You have to edit the Makefile and change this line (using FreeBSD > 5.3-BETA7): > /bin/cp -u src/tcshrc.local $(HOME)/.tcshrc.local > to > /bin/cp -f src/tcshrc.local $(HOME)/.tcshrc.local > because the -u causes an error cool > > 2) You have edit the .tcshrc.alias file and change: > alias ls 'ls --color' > to > alias ls 'ls -G' > the --color causes ls to fail, -G does the color instead > ok thx for the pointers! -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From trish Thu Oct 14 13:11:09 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041014130638.I1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > > I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license for > those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so > explanation: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing > > Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the differences > between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the BSD > license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. > > Dru I once wriote an article o the BSD licenmsing for a layperson in an issue of Open Magazine years ago. The magazine is now defunct, but some people may retain copies.... mine are lost... so I can't find them... however I think the one point that someone who is a BSD licensing advocate can drive home is that modified works can be recopyrighted and modifications kept internal, with no licensing clause that mandates sharing the changes... This is a big boon to both government and private sector development where things can indeed remain internal or classified. -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From trish Thu Oct 14 13:12:36 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Friday night. . . In-Reply-To: <4B79FDD2-1DA2-11D9-9A81-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <4B79FDD2-1DA2-11D9-9A81-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041014131201.D1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > Dru Lavigne will be coming into town, and equally, if not more > important , the Yankees will be looking to take three in a row from > their New England lessers on Friday night. > > For those who don't know, Dru regularly writes for O'Reilly's OnLamp > and is the author of BSD Hacks. She also happens to be on this list . > . . > > Whoever is around, feel free to come by my place. . .email me offlist > for directions. > > Open invite, bring beer. > > g > wanna send me an address? :) -Trish (who may or may not make it, depending on how mobile I am) -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From dlavigne6 Thu Oct 14 13:32:44 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041014130638.I1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> <20041014130638.I1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <20041014133102.L605@dru.domain.org> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Trish Lynch wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > >> >> I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license for >> those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so >> explanation: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing >> >> Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the differences >> between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the BSD >> license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. >> >> Dru > > > I once wriote an article o the BSD licenmsing for a layperson in an issue > of Open Magazine years ago. The magazine is now defunct, but some people > may retain copies.... > > mine are lost... so I can't find them... > > however I think the one point that someone who is a BSD licensing advocate > can drive home is that modified works can be recopyrighted and > modifications kept internal, with no licensing clause that mandates > sharing the changes... > > > This is a big boon to both government and private sector development where > things can indeed remain internal or classified. Exactly. And that is the audience for this venue. I'll poke about archive.org to see if they have a cached copy. Dru From dlavigne6 Thu Oct 14 13:43:11 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 13:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] first draft Message-ID: <20041014134059.S290@laptop.domain.org> Here's the first draft of the slides in OpenOffice Impress format. Comments on missing content or reword suggestions appreciated. This is only a 20 minute presentation and it's intended audience is non-techies at trade shows. Dru -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gtec.sxi Type: application/zip Size: 9517 bytes Desc: Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041014/026516a7/attachment.zip From bob Thu Oct 14 14:45:34 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:45:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041014133102.L605@dru.domain.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> <20041014130638.I1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> <20041014133102.L605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <3B8354A4-1E11-11D9-BD1D-000A95686CD8@redivi.com> On Oct 14, 2004, at 1:32 PM, Dru wrote: > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Trish Lynch wrote: > >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: >> >>> I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD >>> license for >>> those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so >>> explanation: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing >>> >>> Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the >>> differences >>> between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the >>> BSD >>> license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. >> >> I once wriote an article o the BSD licenmsing for a layperson in an >> issue >> of Open Magazine years ago. The magazine is now defunct, but some >> people >> may retain copies.... >> >> mine are lost... so I can't find them... >> >> however I think the one point that someone who is a BSD licensing >> advocate >> can drive home is that modified works can be recopyrighted and >> modifications kept internal, with no licensing clause that mandates >> sharing the changes... >> >> This is a big boon to both government and private sector development >> where >> things can indeed remain internal or classified. > > Exactly. And that is the audience for this venue. I'll poke about > archive.org to see if they have a cached copy. I prefer BSD/MIT style licenses because they give the developer (me goddamnit!) freedom to do whatever they need to do: You can link to whatever you want. You can distribute some, all, or none of the code to whomever you want to whenever it makes sense to do so and you won't get sued or slashdotted (in a bad way) because of it. Saves money on development (you can recycle BSD code into anything you do) Saves on IP lawyer fees. I also consider it to be more in line with the intent of open source (share because you want to, not because you're legally obligated to). I only contribute to [L]GPL (Free as in Herpes) projects in the rare-ish circumstance when there isn't a more liberally licensed product that does the same thing. When I do, it's rarely ever more than bugfixes or a port to my platform. The intent of GPL style licenses, and probably even more so the personalities of the people who use the license on purpose, definitely rub me the wrong way and I generally feel like I've wasted my time the long run... There is an occasional win though: Twisted , a project I contribute to, moved from LGPL to MIT recently. -bob From trish Thu Oct 14 16:43:47 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041014133102.L605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041014164311.L1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > > > Exactly. And that is the audience for this venue. I'll poke about > archive.org to see if they have a cached copy. > > Dru > > Look under "Pat Lynch", I'm not sure they were ever online though, since it was a print magazine. -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From george Thu Oct 14 17:13:51 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:13:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Tom Rhodes interview onto Slashdot Message-ID: Thought this was good to see: http://bsd.slashdot.org/bsd/04/10/14/1417236.shtml?tid=122 I did this interview with Tom Rhodes a while back for DN EZine. . .and someone posted onto Slashdot. Even got an email about it this am with comments. Good thing I was at the Yankee game last night and am brain-dead today! g From george Thu Oct 14 17:47:06 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:47:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] kirk/eric Message-ID: <97A313C0-1E2A-11D9-A58E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Any one interested/able to do a digital recording of the kirk/eric meeting on saturday? it would be great to post online. . . and would help me do an article on DN for it, of course. g From tux Thu Oct 14 20:32:27 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:32:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD Message-ID: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under FreeBSD (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it seems they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD list - see http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/003575.html) The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one for $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something actually work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). Suggestions? Comments? -Kevin From george Thu Oct 14 20:27:57 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:27:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under > FreeBSD > (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it > seems > they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD > list - > see > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/ > 003575.html) > > The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one > for > $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something > actually > work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). > > Suggestions? Comments? > had no problems with the netgear fa411. . . think it's a g card, but i may be wrong. I've worked with a whole number of other cards with FBSD, but can't remember particularly model numbers at this point. . . Lots of cards are fine at this point. . .including 32-bit CardBus. . . I'd suggest find a model you like at the price you like, and check the hardware compatibility list. g From george Thu Oct 14 20:32:07 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:32:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under > FreeBSD > (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it > seems > they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD > list - > see > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/ > 003575.html) > > The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one > for > $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something > actually > work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). > > Suggestions? Comments? Duh. .. correction. . .that's NOT a wireless card. . .stupid me. . The one i have at home that is a g card is the linksys WPC11 card. . .worked fine, under FBSD. g From tux Thu Oct 14 20:50:07 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:50:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <001501c4b251$4f465140$0500a8c0@apollo> : I'd suggest find a model you like at the price you like List (Retail): $119 + My Price (`cuz I'm sPeciAl): $47.60 = what's not to like? :) : and check the hardware compatibility list. I should've waited before posting - I found it listed in the ath(4) manpage, the HCL, and a few other places that claim it to be supported by 5.2.1+ ..and no, I can't get any more, sorry - I'm only allowed to get ONE for "testing and marketing" and can't resell it for 6 months... Kevin From dlavigne6 Thu Oct 14 21:53:39 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > >> Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under FreeBSD >> (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it seems >> they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD list - >> see >> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/003575.html) >> >> The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one for >> $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something actually >> work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). >> >> Suggestions? Comments? >> > > had no problems with the netgear fa411. . . think it's a g card, but i may be > wrong. I've worked with a whole number of other cards with FBSD, but can't > remember particularly model numbers at this point. . . > > Lots of cards are fine at this point. . .including 32-bit CardBus. . . Does anyone know if this is true for 4.10? I had fun this week trying to find _any_ of the wireless models mentioned in "man wi". They all appear to be about 3 years old and no longer sold (not in Canada anyways). Before I RTFMd and printed out the list of models, I had made the mistake of just picking up a Dlink (3 revisions higher than the model # listed in the manpage). FreeBSD saw the insertion but gave an error message along the lines of "32-bit not supported". Dru From george Thu Oct 14 22:17:01 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:17:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <4C5073A7-1E50-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 14, 2004, at 9:53 PM, Dru wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> >> On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: >> >>> Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under >>> FreeBSD >>> (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it >>> seems >>> they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD >>> list - >>> see >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/ >>> 003575.html) >>> The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get >>> one for >>> $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something >>> actually >>> work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). >>> Suggestions? Comments? >> >> had no problems with the netgear fa411. . . think it's a g card, but >> i may be wrong. I've worked with a whole number of other cards with >> FBSD, but can't remember particularly model numbers at this point. . >> . >> >> Lots of cards are fine at this point. . .including 32-bit CardBus. . . > > > Does anyone know if this is true for 4.10? I had fun this week trying > to find _any_ of the wireless models mentioned in "man wi". They all > appear to be about 3 years old and no longer sold (not in Canada > anyways). Before I RTFMd and printed out the list of models, I had > made the mistake of just picking up a Dlink (3 revisions higher than > the model # listed in the manpage). > FreeBSD saw the insertion but gave an error message along the lines of > "32-bit not supported". > It's all a bit pickier with 4.x, of course. . .but i think there was some cardbus in 4.x. . from what i remember. . .not necessarily without some hacking. . . g From pete Thu Oct 14 21:52:39 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <1107.65.74.254.191.1097805159.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> >> On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: >> >>> Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under >>> FreeBSD >>> (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it >>> seems >>> they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD >>> list - >>> see >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/003575.html) >>> >>> The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one >>> for >>> $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something >>> actually >>> work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). >>> >>> Suggestions? Comments? >>> >> >> had no problems with the netgear fa411. . . think it's a g card, but i >> may be >> wrong. I've worked with a whole number of other cards with FBSD, but >> can't >> remember particularly model numbers at this point. . . >> >> Lots of cards are fine at this point. . .including 32-bit CardBus. . . > > > Does anyone know if this is true for 4.10? I had fun this week trying to > find _any_ of the wireless models mentioned in "man wi". They all appear > to be about 3 years old and no longer sold (not in Canada anyways). Before > I > RTFMd and printed out the list of models, I had made the mistake of just > picking up a Dlink (3 revisions higher than the model # listed in the > manpage). > FreeBSD saw the insertion but gave an error message along the lines of > "32-bit not supported". > hey dru i was running a cisco card i got from a job using the an driver on that laptop. I currently use it on my x31. here is the dmesg: an0: at port 0x240-0x27f irq 11 slot 0 on pccard0 an0: got RSSI <-> dBM map an0: Ethernet address: 00:0a:8a:47:c3:ff an0: detached an0: at port 0x240-0x27f irq 11 slot 0 on pccard0 an0: got RSSI <-> dBM map an0: Ethernet address: 00:0a:8a:47:c3:ff Not sure if there are any Aironet cards on ebay, but i've had great success with mine. -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From dlavigne6 Thu Oct 14 22:40:24 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <1107.65.74.254.191.1097805159.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> <1107.65.74.254.191.1097805159.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041014223909.K605@dru.domain.org> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 14, 2004, at 8:32 PM, Kevin Reiter wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone found a PCMCIA wireless (802.11g) card that works under >>>> FreeBSD >>>> (4.x or 5.x)? I've done some checking on the 3COM 3CRPAG175 and it >>>> seems >>>> they work under -CURRENT (according to an April post to the FreeBSD >>>> list - >>>> see >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-mobile/2004-April/003575.html) >>>> >>>> The reason I ask about this particular model is because I can get one >>>> for >>>> $48 (no, not eBay - through 3COM) and would like to have something >>>> actually >>>> work on my laptop (so I can get rid of Winblows). >>>> >>>> Suggestions? Comments? >>>> >>> >>> had no problems with the netgear fa411. . . think it's a g card, but i >>> may be >>> wrong. I've worked with a whole number of other cards with FBSD, but >>> can't >>> remember particularly model numbers at this point. . . >>> >>> Lots of cards are fine at this point. . .including 32-bit CardBus. . . >> >> >> Does anyone know if this is true for 4.10? I had fun this week trying to >> find _any_ of the wireless models mentioned in "man wi". They all appear >> to be about 3 years old and no longer sold (not in Canada anyways). Before >> I >> RTFMd and printed out the list of models, I had made the mistake of just >> picking up a Dlink (3 revisions higher than the model # listed in the >> manpage). >> FreeBSD saw the insertion but gave an error message along the lines of >> "32-bit not supported". >> > > hey dru i was running a cisco card i got from a job using the an driver on > that laptop. I currently use it on my x31. here is the dmesg: > > an0: at port 0x240-0x27f irq 11 slot 0 on pccard0 > an0: got RSSI <-> dBM map > an0: Ethernet address: 00:0a:8a:47:c3:ff > an0: detached > an0: at port 0x240-0x27f irq 11 slot 0 on pccard0 > an0: got RSSI <-> dBM map > an0: Ethernet address: 00:0a:8a:47:c3:ff > > > Not sure if there are any Aironet cards on ebay, but i've had great > success with mine. Thanks. I'll check when I'm in the States. The only thing I've seen up here is Linksys and Netgear. Even the smaller shops (not big chain stores) don't seem to sell anything else. Dru From dan Thu Oct 14 22:39:02 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20041014223909.K605@dru.domain.org> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> <1107.65.74.254.191.1097805159.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041014223909.K605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041014223739.B48701@xeon.unixathome.org> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > Thanks. I'll check when I'm in the States. The only thing I've seen up > here is Linksys and Netgear. Even the smaller shops (not big chain stores) > don't seem to sell anything else. I have a NetGear MA401 working well here under 4.10-stable. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From dan Thu Oct 14 22:41:20 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] What's this I hear about an event on Saturday? Message-ID: <20041014223950.C48701@xeon.unixathome.org> I hear you folks are doing something on Saturday? What's that all about? I'm heading down on Friday after work. I probably won't get there until Saturday afternoon. I'll stop somewhere on the way down. I'll be driving back on Sunday. I'll be up for breakfast somewhere before I go. Say, do they do good breakfasts down there? Should I bring my own? -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From jrobinson852 Fri Oct 15 08:50:37 2004 From: jrobinson852 (J Robinson) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] kirk/eric In-Reply-To: <97A313C0-1E2A-11D9-A58E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041015125037.67787.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Is an RSVP required for tomorrow's event? jrobinson _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com From george Fri Oct 15 08:52:01 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:52:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] kirk/eric In-Reply-To: <20041015125037.67787.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041015125037.67787.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01D110ED-1EA9-11D9-8B57-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 15, 2004, at 8:50 AM, J Robinson wrote: > Is an RSVP required for tomorrow's event? > > jrobinson > no. From okan Fri Oct 15 08:58:55 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:58:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license In-Reply-To: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> References: <20041013143802.W581@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041015125855.GA19782@yinaska.pair.com> On Wed 2004.10.13 at 14:41 -0400, Dru wrote: > > I'm looking for a good URL explaining the benefits of the BSD license for > those who are unfamiliar with it. So far I've found this so-so > explanation: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_and_GPL_licensing > > Anyone aware of a better URL to either an explanation of the differences > between the two licenses or a whitepaper touting the benefits of the BSD > license? My audience will be government and mostly non-technical. This is a link I keep around for a few reasons: http://www.softpanorama.org/Copyright/License_classification/index.shtml The rest of the site has plenty of other stuff. Hope you can find something useful... Okan > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From rick Fri Oct 15 09:39:23 2004 From: rick (Rick Aliwalas) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] WiFi PCMCIA Cards on FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> References: <000901c4b24e$77162630$0500a8c0@apollo> <0FE783B7-1E41-11D9-A023-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041014214753.W605@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > Does anyone know if this is true for 4.10? I had fun this week trying to > find _any_ of the wireless models mentioned in "man wi". They all appear > to be about 3 years old and no longer sold (not in Canada anyways). Before I > RTFMd and printed out the list of models, I had made the mistake of just > picking up a Dlink (3 revisions higher than the model # listed in the manpage). Beware of the Dlink's they changed chipsets from one rev to another and you can never find out which rev you're getting till you actually look at the card. The Netgate cards work really well with OpenBSD/wi. I challenge you to find any other vendor who puts *BSD support on their web site. They use the Prism chipset so you can create a host-based access point. Plus, they have 200mW of transmit power. I've found most cards to be 50mW-100mw range. If your coffee gets cold, just put it next to a running card and the microwaves will heat it back up ;) http://www.netgate.com/EL2511.html -rick From george Thu Oct 14 19:01:56 2004 From: george (george at rob.us.to) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] good explanation of BSD license References: <20041014164311.L1198@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <200410142301.i9EN1uU0025978@localhost.localdomain> The new york state bar association just had a continuing legal education (CLE) class in intellectual property ("bridging the gap" they called it, ie an introductory class) and one of the topics they discussed, if i remember correctly, was open source licensing. maybe within there was something about BSD, i don't know but it could/should. you could try to call one of the attorneys to request materials on that particular seminar topic. goto www.nysba.org/cle/fall2004 and look for the course and the presenters. i threw out the flyer for the class myself and didn't attend. gm Trish Lynch writes: > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > > > > > > > Exactly. And that is the audience for this venue. I'll poke about > > archive.org to see if they have a cached copy. > > > > Dru > > > > > > Look under "Pat Lynch", I'm not sure they were ever online though, since > it was a print magazine. > > > -- > Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net > Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org > EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet > Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From george Sun Oct 17 01:48:03 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:48:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk/Eric Meeting Message-ID: <1C46BE2C-2000-11D9-A218-000D9328615E@sddi.net> For those who didn't make the meeting today at Columbia. . . It turned out great. Some 75 people attended. Eric provided us his slides which will be on the site in the next day or so. Additionally, two people did digital audio recordings, which will be online soon. It's possible that Kirk and Eric will be able to provide us meetings on an annual basis. Thanks to all who made it a success. . .Michael, Ike, . . . g From ike Sun Oct 17 03:54:53 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:54:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk/Eric Meeting In-Reply-To: <1C46BE2C-2000-11D9-A218-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <1C46BE2C-2000-11D9-A218-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2004, at 1:48 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > Thanks to all who made it a success. . .Michael, Ike, . . . > Solid credit is due to our now West-Coast infiltratin' Pete, who hooked us up with our gracious hosts at Columbia, Leo Pinchas Gertsenshteyn, and Eric Garrido. Also special thanks to Leo for hooking everybody up with a post-meeting restaurant! Also, thanks Kirk and Eric for speaking today, it was a serious pleasure having you both in New York! Rocket- .ike From ike Sun Oct 17 03:57:13 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 03:57:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk/Eric Meeting In-Reply-To: References: <1C46BE2C-2000-11D9-A218-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <2818CAD0-2012-11D9-84BD-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 17, 2004, at 3:54 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: >> Thanks to all who made it a success Oh yeah- he works so much on nycbug it's nearly transparent, folks, without George, this meeting would never have happened. George, thanks! Rocket- .ike From nickf Sun Oct 17 20:30:29 2004 From: nickf (Nikolai N. Fetissov) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:30:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mp3 of Eric/Kirk meeting Message-ID: <41730EA5.2040500@peachisland.com> Hi everybody, I put my audio recording of Saturday meeting with Eric Allman and Kirk McKisick here: http://www.peachisland.com/nycbug/nycbug-10-16-04.mp3 It's about 16M in size. Cheers, -- nickf3 From george Sun Oct 17 20:34:29 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:34:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mp3 of Eric/Kirk meeting In-Reply-To: <41730EA5.2040500@peachisland.com> References: <41730EA5.2040500@peachisland.com> Message-ID: <7927D43D-209D-11D9-BD7F-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 17, 2004, at 8:30 PM, Nikolai N. Fetissov wrote: > Hi everybody, > I put my audio recording of Saturday meeting > with Eric Allman and Kirk McKisick here: > http://www.peachisland.com/nycbug/nycbug-10-16-04.mp3 > It's about 16M in size. > Cheers, > Great. . .thanks. . .we'll grab a copy and put on our www site. . .and keep a link to you also. Thanks Nikolai. g From george Mon Oct 18 10:21:31 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:21:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Allman comments on GMail Message-ID: <01D0E207-2111-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> For those who were at Eric's talk on Saturday. . .or who've listened to the audio. http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys g From nycbug Mon Oct 18 10:35:09 2004 From: nycbug (nycbug) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:35:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Allman comments on GMail In-Reply-To: <01D0E207-2111-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <01D0E207-2111-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041018143509.GA316@florian.hastek.net> G. Rosamond: > For those who were at Eric's talk on Saturday. . .or who've listened to > http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys How wierd - I was just reading that very page. Interesting.. dig txt _domainkey.yahoo.com From chsnyder Mon Oct 18 12:10:56 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:10:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? Message-ID: I set up a login class for the first time today, which looks like this in /etc/login.conf: student:\ :filesize=4M:\ :maxproc=3:\ :host.allow=209.11.29.178,localhost:\ :tc=default: Ran cap_mkdb and logged in as a student via ssh. I was limited to only 3 processes, which was good (this will be an scponly account). But I was able to log in from a host which was not in the host.allow list. Does ssh bypass this somehow? Or is host.allow ignored? I read TFM and it only said that idletime was unimplemented... chris. From george Mon Oct 18 12:18:07 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:18:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C0AFFBE-2121-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:10 PM, csnyder wrote: > I set up a login class for the first time today, which looks like this > in /etc/login.conf: > > student:\ > :filesize=4M:\ > :maxproc=3:\ > :host.allow=209.11.29.178,localhost:\ > :tc=default: > > Ran cap_mkdb and logged in as a student via ssh. I was limited to only > 3 processes, which was good (this will be an scponly account). But I > was able to log in from a host which was not in the host.allow list. > > Does ssh bypass this somehow? Or is host.allow ignored? I read TFM and > it only said that idletime was unimplemented... > Try /etc/hosts.allow. . . g From george Mon Oct 18 12:26:13 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:26:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq Message-ID: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> for those who haven't seen it. . . we now have a group faq. .. http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=FAQ any input is appreciated. . .and yes, marc, i still need to finish list netiquette. ;-' g From chsnyder Mon Oct 18 12:54:32 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:54:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? In-Reply-To: <4C0AFFBE-2121-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <4C0AFFBE-2121-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:18:07 -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > Try /etc/hosts.allow. . . Nah, I only want this restriction to apply to a particular login class. And anyway, I think that only applies to tcp-wrapped applications, of which ssh is not one. From bob Mon Oct 18 12:59:02 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:59:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:26, G. Rosamond wrote: > for those who haven't seen it. . . > > we now have a group faq. .. > > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=FAQ > > any input is appreciated. . .and yes, marc, i still need to finish > list netiquette. ;-' It could really use some hyperlinks.. for the mailing lists, directions to apple, etc. -bob From hans Mon Oct 18 13:16:25 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:16:25 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705071997@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > I set up a login class for the first time today, which looks like this > in /etc/login.conf: > > student:\ > :filesize=4M:\ > :maxproc=3:\ > :host.allow=209.11.29.178,localhost:\ > :tc=default: > > Ran cap_mkdb and logged in as a student via ssh. I was limited to only > 3 processes, which was good (this will be an scponly account). But I > was able to log in from a host which was not in the host.allow list. > > Does ssh bypass this somehow? Or is host.allow ignored? I read TFM and > it only said that idletime was unimplemented... Yeah, it bypasses some stuff... http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2003-December/02887 8.html http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=sshd_config See AllowUsers maybe and UseLogin That said, I never was able to get it to work exactly right. H From george Mon Oct 18 13:35:29 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:35:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: <1AC602AA-212C-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:26, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> for those who haven't seen it. . . >> >> we now have a group faq. .. >> >> http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=FAQ >> >> any input is appreciated. . .and yes, marc, i still need to finish >> list netiquette. ;-' > > It could really use some hyperlinks.. for the mailing lists, > directions to apple, etc. > Yes. . .MW? g From george Mon Oct 18 13:40:50 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:40:50 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: G. Rosamond > Date: October 18, 2004 1:35:04 PM EDT > To: csnyder > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? > > > On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:51 PM, csnyder wrote: > >> I'd use /etc/hosts.allow, except I only want this restriction to apply >> to a particular login class. And anyway, I think that only applies to >> tcp-wrapped applications, of which ssh is not one. >> >> > > i know, but . . . > > # Wrapping sshd(8) is not normally a good idea, but if you > # need to do it, here's how > #sshd : .evil.cracker.example.com : deny > > but it doesn't deal with the login class you've created. . .true. > > in the past i found a number of problems with the login.conf doing > implementation, particularly with passwd restrictions. . . > > g > From chsnyder Mon Oct 18 13:43:38 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:43:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705071997@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705071997@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: Ack... sshd does not use login by default. Well crap, but at least the process (and possibly filesize) restrictions are in effect, which will be good enough. I might play with UseLogin to see if that adds the extra layer to the onion. Thanks, Hans and George. From george Mon Oct 18 13:46:23 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:46:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] host.allow capability in login.conf ignored? In-Reply-To: References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705071997@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: On Oct 18, 2004, at 1:43 PM, csnyder wrote: > Ack... sshd does not use login by default. > > Well crap, but at least the process (and possibly filesize) > restrictions are in effect, which will be good enough. I might play > with UseLogin to see if that adds the extra layer to the onion. > > Thanks, Hans and George. > There may be some other hacks. . .you might want to search here: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix- dev&w=2&r=1&s=login.conf&q=b I did see one response to this question to use hosts.allow or from a packet filter, but it still doesn't utilize your login class. g From lists Mon Oct 18 13:48:00 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:48:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <1AC602AA-212C-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> <1AC602AA-212C-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041018134800.6ac6318d@delinux.abwatley.com> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:35:29 -0400 "G. Rosamond" wrote: On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > It could really use some hyperlinks.. for the mailing lists, > > directions to apple, etc. > > > > Yes. . .MW? > Boy, that really is sloppy work. I just fired the intern... and the NYCBUG gardener, just for good measure. That should show the staff to stay on their toes! How did Bob know about the changes? It is not syndicated. Michael -- --- From george Mon Oct 18 13:54:23 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:54:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <20041018134800.6ac6318d@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> <1AC602AA-212C-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041018134800.6ac6318d@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: On Oct 18, 2004, at 1:48 PM, michael wrote: >> >> Yes. . .MW? >> > > Boy, that really is sloppy work. I just fired the intern... and the > NYCBUG gardener, just for good measure. That should show the staff to > stay on their toes! > Doh. . .I had meant to mention before it was posted. . .but ultimately I agree with Michael, fire the intern. It's worked for many governments before. . . > How did Bob know about the changes? It is not syndicated. > Michael From ike Mon Oct 18 13:59:35 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:59:35 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview Message-ID: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> For those of you who abstain from slashdot, or skipped this, Rob Pike is a really cool figure in UNIX history, and currently is working at Google: http://tinyurl.com/4ufzf -or- http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/04/10/18/1153211.shtml? tid=189&tid=156&tid=130&tid=11 Rocket, .ike From bob Mon Oct 18 13:59:42 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:59:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <20041018134800.6ac6318d@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <02EC240A-2127-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> <1AC602AA-212C-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041018134800.6ac6318d@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <7CAE2BC4-212F-11D9-9236-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 18, 2004, at 13:48, michael wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:35:29 -0400 > "G. Rosamond" wrote: > > > On Oct 18, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: >>> It could really use some hyperlinks.. for the mailing lists, >>> directions to apple, etc. >>> >> >> Yes. . .MW? > > Boy, that really is sloppy work. I just fired the intern... and the > NYCBUG gardener, just for good measure. That should show the staff to > stay on their toes! > > How did Bob know about the changes? It is not syndicated. Well, I do read my email. A feed would be a lot better, though :) -bob From chsnyder Mon Oct 18 16:40:19 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:40:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:59:35 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > For those of you who abstain from slashdot, or skipped this, Rob Pike > is a really cool figure in UNIX history... Intriguing -- I thought one of the big takeways was the Unix Room at Bell Labs, where development happened because programmers weren't isolated in their own offices. Then again, maybe they were all just brilliant... For those interested in trying Acme -- Pike's uber-editor for Plan9 -- there is a Unix variant called Wily: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz/wily/ chris. From ike Mon Oct 18 17:03:55 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:03:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 18, 2004, at 4:40 PM, csnyder wrote: > Intriguing -- I thought one of the big takeways was the Unix Room at > Bell Labs, where development happened because programmers weren't > isolated in their own offices. Heck yeah- been missing this kind of thing for a while. I work alone 99% of the time, being self-employed, so I envy the idea of being around people... (and being at the wifi cafe in my neighborhood, even though half the crowd is on a laptop, doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else is hacking anything at all- (mostly folks doing their mail, writing in word processors, surfing the broadband net, etc, and I'm the freak in the corner who catches folks staring blankly at my screen full of shells). I'd really love to carve out someplace to congregate ad-hock regularly and work around other indie folks... (or even just folks who can untether from the cubicle), and work on actual work stuff, or other stuff... But focus would be to casually go about whatever work one is doing. Not like an installfest, where the focus is to learn very directly, but to just do one's work and hang out 'around the coffee machine', metaphorically. Hrm.... I'm kindof thinking out loud here, but I do have a sweet amount of space here in williamsburg, it would be fun to host some open hacking workdays... (wifi, coffee, ashtrays, and an ok stereo... [which could turn into beer into the evening] ) Would anyone really care to schlep out here? Or does anyone have any better ideas? Should I find a couch for my office? :) 'Brooklyn Labs'? (er, sorry Gman, I mean 'Villiamsburg Labs') Rocket- .ike From spork Mon Oct 18 17:09:30 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > Heck yeah- been missing this kind of thing for a while. I work alone 99% of > the time, being self-employed, so I envy the idea of being around people... Preach it! Any Jerseyites want to look at this idea out here? I would love a workday around people. But then again, I probably wouldn't get any work done. :) Charles > (and being at the wifi cafe in my neighborhood, even though half the crowd is > on a laptop, doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else is hacking anything at > all- (mostly folks doing their mail, writing in word processors, surfing the > broadband net, etc, and I'm the freak in the corner who catches folks staring > blankly at my screen full of shells). > > I'd really love to carve out someplace to congregate ad-hock regularly and > work around other indie folks... (or even just folks who can untether from > the cubicle), and work on actual work stuff, or other stuff... But focus > would be to casually go about whatever work one is doing. Not like an > installfest, where the focus is to learn very directly, but to just do one's > work and hang out 'around the coffee machine', metaphorically. > > Hrm.... > > I'm kindof thinking out loud here, but I do have a sweet amount of space here > in williamsburg, it would be fun to host some open hacking workdays... (wifi, > coffee, ashtrays, and an ok stereo... [which could turn into beer into the > evening] ) > > Would anyone really care to schlep out here? Or does anyone have any better > ideas? Should I find a couch for my office? :) > > 'Brooklyn Labs'? (er, sorry Gman, I mean 'Villiamsburg Labs') > > Rocket- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From fifi Mon Oct 18 17:16:51 2004 From: fifi (Mike Sawicki) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:16:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041018211650.GS37230@HAX.ORG> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 05:09:30PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > > >Heck yeah- been missing this kind of thing for a while. I work alone 99% > >of the time, being self-employed, so I envy the idea of being around > >people... > > Preach it! > > Any Jerseyites want to look at this idea out here? I would love a workday > around people. But then again, I probably wouldn't get any work done. :) > Where in Jersey are you? Mike Sawicki (fifi at HAX.ORG) From spork Mon Oct 18 17:22:01 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: <20041018211650.GS37230@HAX.ORG> References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041018211650.GS37230@HAX.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Mike Sawicki wrote: >> Any Jerseyites want to look at this idea out here? I would love a workday >> around people. But then again, I probably wouldn't get any work done. :) > > Where in Jersey are you? Montclair, which is just a hop skip and a jump from Newark. We have a nice cafe' with good coffee but no internet. Charles > Mike Sawicki (fifi at HAX.ORG) From bob Mon Oct 18 17:23:40 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:23:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Oct 18, 2004, at 17:03, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 18, 2004, at 4:40 PM, csnyder wrote: > >> Intriguing -- I thought one of the big takeways was the Unix Room at >> Bell Labs, where development happened because programmers weren't >> isolated in their own offices. > > Heck yeah- been missing this kind of thing for a while. I work alone > 99% of the time, being self-employed, so I envy the idea of being > around people... (and being at the wifi cafe in my neighborhood, even > though half the crowd is on a laptop, doesn't necessarily mean that > anyone else is hacking anything at all- (mostly folks doing their > mail, writing in word processors, surfing the broadband net, etc, and > I'm the freak in the corner who catches folks staring blankly at my > screen full of shells). > > I'd really love to carve out someplace to congregate ad-hock regularly > and work around other indie folks... (or even just folks who can > untether from the cubicle), and work on actual work stuff, or other > stuff... But focus would be to casually go about whatever work one is > doing. Not like an installfest, where the focus is to learn very > directly, but to just do one's work and hang out 'around the coffee > machine', metaphorically. > > Hrm.... > > I'm kindof thinking out loud here, but I do have a sweet amount of > space here in williamsburg, it would be fun to host some open hacking > workdays... (wifi, coffee, ashtrays, and an ok stereo... [which could > turn into beer into the evening] ) > > Would anyone really care to schlep out here? Or does anyone have any > better ideas? Should I find a couch for my office? :) > > 'Brooklyn Labs'? (er, sorry Gman, I mean 'Villiamsburg Labs') I'd probably come out every now and again.. but I'm taking my laptop in for repair tomorrow (the dvd-r sounds like a jet engine), so not anytime immediately soon :) -bob From ike Mon Oct 18 17:30:09 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:30:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Oct 18, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > I'd probably come out every now and again.. Saweeeet, > but I'm taking my laptop in for repair tomorrow (the dvd-r sounds like > a jet engine), so not anytime immediately soon :) Not so sweet! I'm thinking I could try hosting something in willamsburg in the next 2 weeks or so- so by the time your rig is fixed... I'm getting exited now :) Rocket- .ike From jesse Mon Oct 18 19:55:46 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:55:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <3AAF6138-2161-11D9-BF8E-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> On Oct 18, 2004, at 5:03 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 18, 2004, at 4:40 PM, csnyder wrote: > >> Intriguing -- I thought one of the big takeways was the Unix Room at >> Bell Labs, where development happened because programmers weren't >> isolated in their own offices. > > Heck yeah- been missing this kind of thing for a while. I work alone > 99% of the time, being self-employed, so I envy the idea of being > around people... (and being at the wifi cafe in my neighborhood, even > though half the crowd is on a laptop, doesn't necessarily mean that > anyone else is hacking anything at all- (mostly folks doing their > mail, writing in word processors, surfing the broadband net, etc, and > I'm the freak in the corner who catches folks staring blankly at my > screen full of shells). > > I'd really love to carve out someplace to congregate ad-hock regularly > and work around other indie folks... (or even just folks who can > untether from the cubicle), and work on actual work stuff, or other > stuff... But focus would be to casually go about whatever work one is > doing. Not like an installfest, where the focus is to learn very > directly, but to just do one's work and hang out 'around the coffee > machine', metaphorically. > > Hrm.... > > I'm kindof thinking out loud here, but I do have a sweet amount of > space here in williamsburg, it would be fun to host some open hacking > workdays... (wifi, coffee, ashtrays, and an ok stereo... [which could > turn into beer into the evening] ) > > Would anyone really care to schlep out here? Or does anyone have any > better ideas? Should I find a couch for my office? :) > > 'Brooklyn Labs'? (er, sorry Gman, I mean 'Villiamsburg Labs') > > Rocket- > .ike > > I'm all over this. However, I would get really freaked out if your stereo turns into beer, or even the coffee for that matter. vote kerry. I was talking with a friend of mine about setting up a space and maybe charging money for juice or a membership. Entrance always being free, a membership would have like some other privileges. Your own cup or something. From jesse Mon Oct 18 19:59:08 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:59:08 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Oct 18, 2004, at 5:30 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 18, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> I'd probably come out every now and again.. > > Saweeeet, > >> but I'm taking my laptop in for repair tomorrow (the dvd-r sounds >> like a jet engine), so not anytime immediately soon :) > > Not so sweet! I'm thinking I could try hosting something in > willamsburg in the next 2 weeks or so- so by the time your rig is > fixed... > > I'm getting exited now :) > > Rocket- > .ike > ok, I understand... Just hanging out while working on stuff. Not for playing music, etc. From ike Mon Oct 18 20:00:53 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:00:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Rob Pike Slashdot Interview In-Reply-To: References: <789EDB0F-212F-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38D964BE-2149-11D9-99D8-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: Nah, On Oct 18, 2004, at 7:59 PM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > ok, I understand... Just hanging out while working on stuff. Not for > playing music, etc. > > nah- whatever happens happens, I sure know I listen to a hell of a lot of music while I work... Rocket- .ike From mspitze1 Mon Oct 18 21:27:19 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:27:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] nyc*bug faq In-Reply-To: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <6D477BF6-2122-11D9-83C7-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041018212719.65b416dd@bogomips.optonline.net> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:26:13 -0400 "G. Rosamond" wrote: > for those who haven't seen it. . . > > we now have a group faq. .. > > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=FAQ > > any input is appreciated. . .and yes, marc, i still need to finish > list netiquette. ;-' I was too polite to bring it up... marc From ike Tue Oct 19 11:10:00 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:10:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] thank-you gift for Kirk Mckusick and Eric Allman Message-ID: Hi everyone, Saturday's special meeting was awesome, great turnout- great lectures. Since I was helping out, I'm charged with putting together a little ad-hock thank-you package for Kirk and Eric. Since they are avid wine collectors, http://www.mckusick.com/~mckusick/images/winecellar.jpg http://www.sendmail.org/~eric/eric_wine.html an idea came up to take a small collection for a bottle, and send them a bottle of wine as a NYC*BUG thank-you, and I've taken the ball to make it happen. I'm taking donations, and I'll be spending every dime received on the package, including shipping to California. I'll spend any spare change on chocolates or something to throw in. There's a great wine/liquor store in my neighborhood where I'll get proper assistance to pick a good wine. *Don't feel obliged, this is just a fun little thank you for these guys taking time out of their trip. -- Below is a link to my personal PayPal account, I'll suggest $5.00, but feel free to toss in more- (better wine?). Deadline/cutoff is Wedsday Night, (Tomorrow!), I'll be buying it Thursday. http://tinyurl.com/6wwft -or- https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ business=ike%40structuredsystems.net&item_name=wine+McKusick- Allman&no_note=1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US Rocket, .ike From steve.rieger Tue Oct 19 16:07:36 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:07:36 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Zabbix agent Message-ID: Does anybody on this list have zabbix agent compiled as static If so can you send me a copy -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From george Tue Oct 19 17:30:03 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:30:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSViews review of the BSD family Message-ID: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> For those who haven't see it. . . Not a very useful review, IMO, as it seems to rest on very dated information on many points and utter confusion on others. From reading Bugtraq, I would hardly think that NetBSD "is not secure." And I hardly think that FBSD is in a "precarious" position due to the simultaneous 4.x and 5.x branch existences. . .He probably thinks they are competing "distros." And actually, if I didn't know better, I wouldn't be very excited by the future of the BSDs from this article. . . Really just posting for the records, as it's been Slashdot'd. And I do think that it would be useful to post a detailed response to this in our library. . . g It's an exciting era in the Berkeley Software Distribution world; indeed, things started off with a litigious bang over a decade ago, but now BSD solutions are more varied than ever before and offer the user heretofore unprecedented choice and power. So many are the options today that it's time for a roll call from the various distributions. Paul Webb submitted the following editorial to osOpinion/osViews which takes a look at what each BSD has to offer and also looks at where each is going. -- Each of the four major BSD projects are pushing forward with development and experiencing growth, diversifying the Open Source playing field's offerings Let's take a look at what each project is up to these days. FreeBSD FreeBSD is in a precarious state. While it has almost hit critical mass in the corporate world, their latest growing pains have left potential adopters confused. The new FreeBSD 5 branch offers some exciting technology, generally regarded as comparable with or superior to what is offered in Linux. The FreeBSD foundation is still upgrading its FreeBSD 4.x line and suggesting its use for production environments over FreeBSD 5. The reasons for this are very simple -- FreeBSD 5 won't be ready for prime time until FreeBSD 5.4 or 5.5 -- but users are left confused and timid. FreeBSD's last major release, which now sits highly optimized at version 4.10, works just as well as always. For systems already running with FreeBSD 4.x that see no need to adopt the new technology in FreeBSD 5 or jump to Linux, this operating system is a godsend in stability and continued support. FreeBSD 4.11 is scheduled for a February '05 release, while plans for FreeBSD 4.12 are on the backburner should FreeBSD 5 not achieve -STABLE status by the fourth quarter of 2005. But what if you need the technology available in FreeBSD 5 and don't want to jump to Linux? FreeBSD 5, currently available at FreeBSD 5.2.1 with FreeBSD 5.3 in late beta, tantalizes the BSD world with the culmination of several year's hard work and narrow escapes. Back in the late Nineties, when WindRiver bought BSD/OS (a closed-source BSD operating system owned by the now-defunct BSDI), FreeBSD users were promised a next-generation BSD made possible by crossing the ultra-robust corporate OS with its Open Source counterpart. While WindRiver let go of its plans leaving the future of FreeBSD in peril, the realization of its goal is almost here thanks to the FreeBSD community and Apple Computer, Inc.'s contribution of FreeBSD code. That almost is a killer, though, in that it now causes potential users to look elsewhere for modern operating system features elsewhere until FreeBSD 5 is blessed as stable. Given FreeBSD's track record and the corporate sponsors now behind its operating system, however, it has a bright future ahead of it despite these stumbling blocks. Sadly, the same can't be said for its two little brothers, NetBSD and OpenBSD. NetBSD NetBSD's claims to fame aren't its optimization or secure code -- it's instead known for running on a wider variety of platforms than any other operating system out there, including Linux. NetBSD's binary releases include support for an amazing 40 platforms and an additional 12 platforms in the source code. In other words, it runs on everything but the kitchen sink. NetBSD forked from the 386BSD/4.4 BSD merger in 1993 and continued on its own in parallel to FreeBSD since then, albeit at a slower pace. It's currently at version 2.6.1, with aggressive testing on the new NetBSD 2.0 promising fruition by the first half of 2005. Those familiar with NetBSD swear by it, though its use in serious environments is limited. It is not secure and device driver support is paltry at best. NetBSD's true usefulness comes in providing developers of other operating systems -- such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux -- with hardware support to base their own new ports off of. For instance, much of the code for the PowerPC FreeBSD port comes from NetBSD. OpenBSD implemented support for AMD64 by means of hefty imports from the NetBSD source tree, and Linux runs on Motorola's ColdFire processor family thanks to the work previously for NetBSD's port. Though it's the unsung hero of the BSD family and Linux, you can safely ignore NetBSD unless you have old or obscure hardware or are looking to port your operating system project to new hardware. Its desktop and production applications are so limited as to be nonexistent and this isn't likely to change even after NetBSD 2.0 is released. OpenBSD Forking from NetBSD in 1995 after a very heated -- and embarrassing -- personal argument, OpenBSD's one and only focus is to offer security. Every line of code is hand-audited and, as the site claims, there hasn't been a hole in the default install in over seven years. Striking a balance in hardware support somewhere between FreeBSD and NetBSD, OpenBSD runs on very few platforms and even then only in single-processor mode. Sticking with Intel and compatible chips is a safe bet as its Alpha and PowerPC ports are still in their infancy. OpenBSD is updated every three or four months and doesn't experience the major upheavals that FreeBSD is confronting now: When OpenBSD is updated, there is no question as to whether or not it's secure or ready for production. Oftentimes it stands in on a general computer to emulate a specific network device, though in a highly secure fashion. If you're in the market for a firewall, OpenBSD can make an aging Pentium system do the job better than pricier hardware. OpenBSD isn't acceptable as a desktop system or 3D workstation, however. One factor that mars OpenBSD's fair weather is its primary developer, Theo de Raadt. This individual is known to be highly unstable and even destructive at times. OpenBSD's very birth, as noted above, is owed to one of his infamous tantrums and many users have been flamed off the Internet due to his bad moods and compulsive control issues. Though excellent for network equipment, developers may wish to remain wary of this platform and its creator. Darwin Apple Computer, Inc.'s Darwin operating system is now the most widely-shipped UNIX in the world, with a user-base of over 10 million strong and growing. The current platform has been out for over a year with Darwin 7.5 corresponding to Mac OS X v10.3.5. Darwin 7.6 will be released before 2005 with another one or two follow-ons before Darwin 8 goes live, which has been in development since last January. Darwin 8.0b1, the first beta for Apple's next Mac OS X release, shows many improvements over Darwin 7. First and foremost, it includes 64-bit memory addressing and optimizations for Apple processors going back all the way to the PowerPC G3. Many of its libraries and userland will be synced with FreeBSD 5.2, while also enhancing Linux API compatibility and support for AMD64. Other points of improvement are symmetric multi-threading (SMT), NetBSD and OpenBSD binary support, next-generation on-the-fly file de-fragmentation, integration of TrustedBSD security hooks, support for Java 1.5, XHTML 2.0 and CSS 3.0, and a myriad of minor improvements sure to make thousands of developers and end-users happy. Clearly, Darwin is the most inclusive and feature-complete BSD -- and, indeed, UNIX -- out there. With so much going on with Darwin, it might be hard to realize that it's not right for everyone. There are certain groups who might not be happy with it. Developers, for instance, have expressed frustration over how fast Apple's evolves its operating system, which can sometimes make it hard to create applications that run on more than one version of Mac OS X. Another point of contention is hardware support. While Darwin supports the PowerPC G3, G4 and G5 processors and all of Apple's mainboards and other devices, it only runs on Intel's Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III and Pentium 4 families. Darwin 8 will fix this, with support for AMD chips, but it could be as long as eight more months off. The future burns brightly for Apple's Darwin BSD. Final Thoughts If you're looking for a software solution in the Berkeley Software Distribution family, you won't be disappointed. All four major projects are continually updated and developed whether you need a general workstation solution, network security, hardware development, or a desktop operating system. The BSD world has never looked brighter than now and each project is geared for major upgrades in the near future, guaranteeing a continuity of utility in the years to come. :: From okan Tue Oct 19 17:45:13 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:45:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSViews review of the BSD family In-Reply-To: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041019214513.GC61060@yinaska.pair.com> to top post: grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. i wish i had the time to say more and make that voice heard - maybe later this fall. these articles are so frustrating to read, it maybe worth the time/money to drop a few projects to counter this stuff... On Tue 2004.10.19 at 17:30 -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > For those who haven't see it. . . > > Not a very useful review, IMO, as it seems to rest on very dated > information on many points and utter confusion on others. > > From reading Bugtraq, I would hardly think that NetBSD "is not secure." > And I hardly think that FBSD is in a "precarious" position due to the > simultaneous 4.x and 5.x branch existences. . .He probably thinks they > are competing "distros." > > And actually, if I didn't know better, I wouldn't be very excited by > the future of the BSDs from this article. . . > > Really just posting for the records, as it's been Slashdot'd. > > And I do think that it would be useful to post a detailed response to > this in our library. . . > > g > > > It's an exciting era in the Berkeley Software Distribution world; > indeed, things started off with a litigious bang over a decade ago, but > now BSD solutions are more varied than ever before and offer the user > heretofore unprecedented choice and power. So many are the options > today that it's time for a roll call from the various distributions. > Paul Webb submitted the following editorial to osOpinion/osViews which > takes a look at what each BSD has to offer and also looks at where each > is going. > -- > > Each of the four major BSD projects are pushing forward with > development and experiencing growth, diversifying the Open Source > playing field's offerings Let's take a look at what each project is up > to these days. > > FreeBSD > > FreeBSD is in a precarious state. While it has almost hit critical mass > in the corporate world, their latest growing pains have left potential > adopters confused. The new FreeBSD 5 branch offers some exciting > technology, generally regarded as comparable with or superior to what > is offered in Linux. The FreeBSD foundation is still upgrading its > FreeBSD 4.x line and suggesting its use for production environments > over FreeBSD 5. The reasons for this are very simple -- FreeBSD 5 won't > be ready for prime time until FreeBSD 5.4 or 5.5 -- but users are left > confused and timid. > > FreeBSD's last major release, which now sits highly optimized at > version 4.10, works just as well as always. For systems already running > with FreeBSD 4.x that see no need to adopt the new technology in > FreeBSD 5 or jump to Linux, this operating system is a godsend in > stability and continued support. FreeBSD 4.11 is scheduled for a > February '05 release, while plans for FreeBSD 4.12 are on the > backburner should FreeBSD 5 not achieve -STABLE status by the fourth > quarter of 2005. But what if you need the technology available in > FreeBSD 5 and don't want to jump to Linux? > > FreeBSD 5, currently available at FreeBSD 5.2.1 with FreeBSD 5.3 in > late beta, tantalizes the BSD world with the culmination of several > year's hard work and narrow escapes. Back in the late Nineties, when > WindRiver bought BSD/OS (a closed-source BSD operating system owned by > the now-defunct BSDI), FreeBSD users were promised a next-generation > BSD made possible by crossing the ultra-robust corporate OS with its > Open Source counterpart. While WindRiver let go of its plans leaving > the future of FreeBSD in peril, the realization of its goal is almost > here thanks to the FreeBSD community and Apple Computer, Inc.'s > contribution of FreeBSD code. > > That almost is a killer, though, in that it now causes potential users > to look elsewhere for modern operating system features elsewhere until > FreeBSD 5 is blessed as stable. Given FreeBSD's track record and the > corporate sponsors now behind its operating system, however, it has a > bright future ahead of it despite these stumbling blocks. Sadly, the > same can't be said for its two little brothers, NetBSD and OpenBSD. > > NetBSD > > NetBSD's claims to fame aren't its optimization or secure code -- it's > instead known for running on a wider variety of platforms than any > other operating system out there, including Linux. NetBSD's binary > releases include support for an amazing 40 platforms and an additional > 12 platforms in the source code. In other words, it runs on everything > but the kitchen sink. NetBSD forked from the 386BSD/4.4 BSD merger in > 1993 and continued on its own in parallel to FreeBSD since then, albeit > at a slower pace. It's currently at version 2.6.1, with aggressive > testing on the new NetBSD 2.0 promising fruition by the first half of > 2005. > > Those familiar with NetBSD swear by it, though its use in serious > environments is limited. It is not secure and device driver support is > paltry at best. NetBSD's true usefulness comes in providing developers > of other operating systems -- such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux -- > with hardware support to base their own new ports off of. For instance, > much of the code for the PowerPC FreeBSD port comes from NetBSD. > OpenBSD implemented support for AMD64 by means of hefty imports from > the NetBSD source tree, and Linux runs on Motorola's ColdFire processor > family thanks to the work previously for NetBSD's port. > > Though it's the unsung hero of the BSD family and Linux, you can safely > ignore NetBSD unless you have old or obscure hardware or are looking to > port your operating system project to new hardware. Its desktop and > production applications are so limited as to be nonexistent and this > isn't likely to change even after NetBSD 2.0 is released. > > OpenBSD > > Forking from NetBSD in 1995 after a very heated -- and embarrassing -- > personal argument, OpenBSD's one and only focus is to offer security. > Every line of code is hand-audited and, as the site claims, there > hasn't been a hole in the default install in over seven years. Striking > a balance in hardware support somewhere between FreeBSD and NetBSD, > OpenBSD runs on very few platforms and even then only in > single-processor mode. Sticking with Intel and compatible chips is a > safe bet as its Alpha and PowerPC ports are still in their infancy. > > OpenBSD is updated every three or four months and doesn't experience > the major upheavals that FreeBSD is confronting now: When OpenBSD is > updated, there is no question as to whether or not it's secure or ready > for production. Oftentimes it stands in on a general computer to > emulate a specific network device, though in a highly secure fashion. > If you're in the market for a firewall, OpenBSD can make an aging > Pentium system do the job better than pricier hardware. OpenBSD isn't > acceptable as a desktop system or 3D workstation, however. > > One factor that mars OpenBSD's fair weather is its primary developer, > Theo de Raadt. This individual is known to be highly unstable and even > destructive at times. OpenBSD's very birth, as noted above, is owed to > one of his infamous tantrums and many users have been flamed off the > Internet due to his bad moods and compulsive control issues. Though > excellent for network equipment, developers may wish to remain wary of > this platform and its creator. > > Darwin > > Apple Computer, Inc.'s Darwin operating system is now the most > widely-shipped UNIX in the world, with a user-base of over 10 million > strong and growing. The current platform has been out for over a year > with Darwin 7.5 corresponding to Mac OS X v10.3.5. Darwin 7.6 will be > released before 2005 with another one or two follow-ons before Darwin 8 > goes live, which has been in development since last January. > > Darwin 8.0b1, the first beta for Apple's next Mac OS X release, shows > many improvements over Darwin 7. First and foremost, it includes 64-bit > memory addressing and optimizations for Apple processors going back all > the way to the PowerPC G3. Many of its libraries and userland will be > synced with FreeBSD 5.2, while also enhancing Linux API compatibility > and support for AMD64. > > Other points of improvement are symmetric multi-threading (SMT), NetBSD > and OpenBSD binary support, next-generation on-the-fly file > de-fragmentation, integration of TrustedBSD security hooks, support for > Java 1.5, XHTML 2.0 and CSS 3.0, and a myriad of minor improvements > sure to make thousands of developers and end-users happy. Clearly, > Darwin is the most inclusive and feature-complete BSD -- and, indeed, > UNIX -- out there. > > With so much going on with Darwin, it might be hard to realize that > it's not right for everyone. There are certain groups who might not be > happy with it. Developers, for instance, have expressed frustration > over how fast Apple's evolves its operating system, which can sometimes > make it hard to create applications that run on more than one version > of Mac OS X. > > Another point of contention is hardware support. While Darwin supports > the PowerPC G3, G4 and G5 processors and all of Apple's mainboards and > other devices, it only runs on Intel's Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium > III and Pentium 4 families. Darwin 8 will fix this, with support for > AMD chips, but it could be as long as eight more months off. The future > burns brightly for Apple's Darwin BSD. > > Final Thoughts > > If you're looking for a software solution in the Berkeley Software > Distribution family, you won't be disappointed. All four major projects > are continually updated and developed whether you need a general > workstation solution, network security, hardware development, or a > desktop operating system. The BSD world has never looked brighter than > now and each project is geared for major upgrades in the near future, > guaranteeing a continuity of utility in the years to come. :: > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From george Tue Oct 19 17:47:22 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:47:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OSViews review of the BSD family In-Reply-To: <20041019214513.GC61060@yinaska.pair.com> References: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041019214513.GC61060@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <7504679C-2218-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 19, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > to top post: > > grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. i wish i had the time > to say more and make that voice heard - maybe later this fall. these > articles are so frustrating to read, it maybe worth the time/money > to drop a few projects to counter this stuff... > > to snip a lot: yes. . .ditto Okan. . . Maybe we could have something, say, by a security officer from each project, then someone from each project on new releases upcoming (NBSD 2.0, OBSD 3.6, FBSD 5.3). ROAR. g From nycbug Tue Oct 19 18:01:59 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:01:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: OSViews review of the BSD family In-Reply-To: <7504679C-2218-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041019214513.GC61060@yinaska.pair.com> <7504679C-2218-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041019220159.GA9528@florian.hastek.net> Guys, guys, guys .. G. Rosamond: > > >grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. i wish i had the time > >to say more and make that voice heard - maybe later this fall. these > >articles are so frustrating to read, it maybe worth the time/money > >to drop a few projects to counter this stuff... > Maybe we could have something, say, by a security officer from each > project, then someone from each project on new releases upcoming (NBSD > 2.0, OBSD 3.6, FBSD 5.3). > > ROAR. Isn't this from osviews/ osopinion? Yes, it is. Didn't they have a reviewer named Eugenia .. (something)? Pay no attention.. their reviews were always not to be taken seriously. Slashdot loves to post links to them. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire. What a waste of time. IIRC there was a comment about that particular reviewer that summed up the situation perfectly (and I paraphrase): " .. she reviews operating systems and rates them by how many windows could be opened up on the desktop after the first reboot .." OTOH, you're probably right - deserves a strong response, just on principle. Harold From george Tue Oct 19 19:35:37 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:35:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" Message-ID: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug site. There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in our library section, IMHO. yes, i write compulsively and i did not even reread this. * * * * I hold the frustration many others have with the recent osOpinion/osViews article that recently ran titled "The State of Demon (sic) Address" by Paul Webb. What "demon" he refers to is a mystery: he must be referring to the "daemon" logo of the BSDs and more generally with the "daemon" of processes on a UNIX box. Parenthetically, my reading of the article is based upon a posting supplied by a helpful Slashdot reader, as the osViews web site was not prepared to handle the traffic generated by article about a often considered peripheral operating system family. I am restricted by only having access to this particular post. Paul Webb seems quite excited by the state of the BSD projects, which is rather surprising considering his review is full of dated and confused information. I myself wonder if Paul has ever installed BSD, much less viewed any of the projects web sites in the past few months with non-enebriated eyes. Paul breaks up his meager review by project: FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD then Darwin. It's notable to mention that he makes no mention of DragonFlyBSD, which has caused excitement beyond the DragonFly community. It's safe to guess that as it's only been around a year or so means that Paul hasn't quite caught up with it yet. FreeBSD Paul's approach to FreeBSD is way more confusing than the project itself having 4.x stable and 5.x "new technology" branches. Sure, having two branches in simultaneous development may be confusing to the sysadmin figuring out which one to run for this or that server. However, it's far more confusing to read an excited interview that opens with the first project being in a "precarious state." What is this, a Vincent Price movie? He is delighted that FreeBSD has almost hit a critical mass in the corporate world, which is not provided any backing with any particular data. Not that FreeBSD doesn't have critical mass, there's just no indication as to why Paul believes this. FreeBSD has certainly made its name a long way before the recent Netcraft news that some 2.5 million web hosts now run FreeBSD, to which Paul may or may not be referring. But maybe Paul hasn't yet entered the world of seach engines so hasn't heard of Yahoo! or the extra specialized and covert existence of Pair and Verio, all of whom are dedicated FreeBSD users. What a wonder it will be when Paul finds that the internet is actually searchable with indexed searches. Maybe with that new search engine capability, Paul could find the FreeBSD web site, mysteriously parked at freebsd.org and provide some clues to the the 4.x and 5.x branch issue to which he refers repeatedly. Fortunately, as I had bookmarked "FreeBSD.org" from a previous search in my web browser, this author was able to quickly bring up the site. In a large off-yellowish box in the right margin with red lettering, the site states: New Technology Release: 5.2.1 then a little lower down: Production Release: 4.10 That should make things a bit clearer, my friend. And if you really want to get into the nuts and bolts of FreeBSD, you might even want to delve into the "Early Adopter's Guide" under that 5.2.1 section, which clearly states that: . . . the Release Engineering Team specifically discourages users from updating from older FreeBSD releases to 5.2.1- RELEASE unless they are aware of (and prepared to deal with) possible regressions in the newer releases. Specifically, for more conservative users, we recommend running 4.X releases (such as 4.9-RELEASE) for the near-term future. We feel that such users are probably best served by upgrading to 5.X only after a 5-STABLE development branch has been created; this may be around the time of 5.3-RELEASE. This seems pretty clear to me, but then again I am also familiar with the old refrain of RTFM, something as important with building a production server as it is with writing a software review. NetBSD If FreeBSD developers are angered by Paul's review of their project, I could only wonder how the NetBSD and OpenBSD developers feel. Maybe they are marching to Paul's home as I write. First, Paul seems to judge operating system by development by self-assigned version numbers, which is pretty funny in itself. He states that after NetBSD forked in 1993, it has "continued on its own in parallel to FreeBSD. . . . albeit at a slower pace. Does that mean Microsoft Office 2004 is a thousand units better than 2003? Or that while NetBSD is currently at 1.6.2, not 2.6.2 as Paul states, it is behind OpenBSD 3.6 by 2.0.something? How developers label their software branches and how they mark their development can not be compared by the version numbers of other projects. Certainly the enormous portability of NetBSD to dozens of architectures and the brilliance of pkgsrc accounts for some significant pace of development. Now comes the real gems of the review: "It is not secure" and "you can safely ignore NetBSD unless you have old or obscure hardware or are looking to port your operating system project to new hardware." Woah. Where do we start? To say NetBSD is "not secure" is pretty scary. Paul, turn that web browser window to that new site Yahoo.com, and look for this cool list called BugTraq. For your information, it lists vulnerabilities released to the security community, and they are usually mentioned there first. And like the rest of the BSD community, NetBSD developers don't hide their vulnerabilities, they publicize them and fix them as soon as possible. They also tend to be the ones who publicize them first. And sure, NetBSD runs great on obscure hardware, but to "safely ignore NetBSD" would be a huge mistake. Although it may not be the biggest mistake Paul makes. There is real excitement about pkgsrc from a number of sysadmins I know. A cross platform package system with over 4000 ports and counting is hardly something to ignore. Maybe Paul should browse these before arguing that "(i)ts desktop and production applications are so limited to be nonexistennt" And then of course you can't forget to mention embedded systems, an area in which NetBSD is a serious force. OpenBSD If NetBSD developers are marching on Paul's home right now, they might not be able to find it, OpenBSD developers already got there and have burned it down. You can look at Paul's basic factual errors first, such as "the site claims, there hasn't been a hole in the default install in over seven years." Actually, if Paul read the technical news circuit online, he would know that OpenBSD celebrated its eighth birthday recently, and the site was updated to account for that. Or his foolish mistake of stating that "OpenBSD runs on very few platforms", when it actually runs on twelve, and the new OpenBSD 3.6 does run SMP. Or that "OpenBSD is updated every three or four months" when the OpenBSD developers have religiously stuck to six month intervals in their release schedule since the beginning. Most people who run OpenBSD know that, without major apocalyptic happenings in the universe, a new OpenBSD is released every May 1st and November 1st. But what is really shocking about Paul's review is his personal attack on Theo de Raadt, someone who "is known to be highly unstable and even destructive at times. . . " and who has "infamous tantrums" and "many users have been flamed off the Internet due to his bad moods and compulsive control issues." Finally, Paul warns us that "developers may wish to remain wary of this platform and its creator." Woah. Pretty strong words there tiger. Paul? Are you still there? Software reviews are not meant to be personality profiles. Does Theo have a reputation as a compulsively serious developer? Absolutely. Is this based on being "highly unstable"? Unless Paul has known Theo for any length of time, and was his shrink, or at least has witnessed this behavior in person, Paul really should keep his personal inferences out of his software reviews. Theo is not known for being an easy-going person. He is very much dedicated to OpenBSD, and intends to keep focus on maintaining an operating system that doesn't cower to foolish assumptions about security or "revised" licensing schemes. And the oft-repeated comments about "if you can't code it in C, please don't bother us" is the basis of the project, not pleading for new users without any technical background looking for a cool pc in their dorm room to impress their friends with. Paul, if you are going to do a software review, stick to focusing on the technology of the operating system, not on the personalities behind that OS. Darwin I must honestly state that I no longer have the patience to read Paul's Darwin section. It's nice that he does mention that Darwin is part of the BSD family, but I'm beginning to think that Paul leaving out DragonFlyBSD from his BSD review could only make Matt Dillon smile. And Then Paul's Final Thoughts. . . It's fair to believe that there was a lag of months between Paul's review of each BSD and his "Final Thoughts" wrap-up. He espouses how great each is as a "workstation solution, network security. . ." Wait, maybe the Slashdot poster who put up the text was referring to another article. From dlavigne6 Tue Oct 19 19:45:24 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] short, but hopefully sweet Message-ID: <20041019194414.Y544@dru.domain.org> My blog on Saturday's event: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/5765 Dru From scottro Tue Oct 19 20:15:40 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:15:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041020001540.GB62456@scottro11.homeunix.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:35:37PM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug site. > There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in our > library section, IMHO. > > yes, i write compulsively and i did not even reread this. > > * * * * > > I hold the frustration many others have with the recent > osOpinion/osViews article that recently ran titled "The State of Demon > (sic) Address" by Paul Webb. What "demon" he refers to is a mystery: > he must be referring to the "daemon" logo of the BSDs and more > generally with the "daemon" of processes on a UNIX box. George while I like many of your points, my impression is that by reacting so angrily, we almost make ourselves look bad. For instance, the Demon could have easily been a typo--if the gentleman is familiar with Linux, he probably knows that. This is just my impression and my impression only. Perhaps it comes with getting old. :-( ~I~ think that a calmer article, making many of the same points, would be a better way to go. Yet, this may simply be because I'm old and feeble. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Forrest: This is the burden we bear, brother. We have a gig that would inevitably cause any girl living to think we are cool upon cool. Yet, we must Clark Kent our way through the dating scene, never to use our unfair advantage. Thank God we're pretty. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBda4s+lTVdes0Z9YRAvnDAJ4/jcyYIsTjPCeb6HtT0PhN3X6uIQCbBqBo 7M+qwB7XKTw7fp9FCKNZ6yA= =VadE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlavigne6 Tue Oct 19 21:13:05 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? Message-ID: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought was a mistaken belief... Dru From pete Tue Oct 19 20:39:12 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of 'state of demon address' In-Reply-To: <20041020001540.GB62456@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020001540.GB62456@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <1469.65.74.254.193.1098232752.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:35:37PM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: >> if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug site. >> There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in our >> library section, IMHO. >> >> yes, i write compulsively and i did not even reread this. >> >> * * * * >> >> I hold the frustration many others have with the recent >> osOpinion/osViews article that recently ran titled "The State of Demon >> (sic) Address" by Paul Webb. What "demon" he refers to is a mystery: >> he must be referring to the "daemon" logo of the BSDs and more >> generally with the "daemon" of processes on a UNIX box. > > > George while I like many of your points, my impression is that by > reacting so angrily, we almost make ourselves look bad. For instance, > the Demon could have easily been a typo--if the gentleman is familiar > with Linux, he probably knows that. > > This is just my impression and my impression only. Perhaps it comes > with getting old. :-( > > ~I~ think that a calmer article, making many of the same points, would > be a better way to go. > > Yet, this may simply be because I'm old and feeble. > i've just read george's post and the article and i can honestly agree w/ like %90 of what george is saying here. having said that, i don't think we should put up his review - or any direct review - of this article up on our site. what i think we should do is to write our own review of the *BSDs on the site, maybe in a similar vein as Paul but done properly. i think that should be our response to this piece of flame bait, and hopefully it will also open other people's eyes to that what's going on. (i think i may even start working on an outline for fbsd now) -p > > - -- > > Scott Robbins > > PGP keyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 > > Forrest: This is the burden we bear, brother. We have a gig that > would inevitably cause any girl living to think we are cool upon > cool. Yet, we must Clark Kent our way through the dating scene, > never to use our unfair advantage. Thank God we're pretty. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) > > iD8DBQFBda4s+lTVdes0Z9YRAvnDAJ4/jcyYIsTjPCeb6HtT0PhN3X6uIQCbBqBo > 7M+qwB7XKTw7fp9FCKNZ6yA= > =VadE > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From george Tue Oct 19 21:12:51 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:12:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:13 PM, Dru wrote: > > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I > thought was a mistaken belief... > > Dru > Yes. It's their method of trying to inspire cd sales. There doesn't seem to be any magic bullets. It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD popularity and publicity has increased so drastically. g From pete Tue Oct 19 20:40:53 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <2069.65.74.254.193.1098232853.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought > was a mistaken belief... > i've run into this issue myself...and i thus became a subscriber through bsdmall. so at least it worked for me. i think there has been some chatter about this on misc@ as well lately... -p > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From mlists Tue Oct 19 21:16:23 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:16:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041020011623.GK10561@bizintegrators.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:13:05PM -0400, Dru wrote: > > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought > was a mistaken belief... > Yeah, its been like this forever. :) From pete Tue Oct 19 20:44:48 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: OSViews review of the BSD family In-Reply-To: <20041019220159.GA9528@florian.hastek.net> References: <09FD2B26-2216-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041019214513.GC61060@yinaska.pair.com> <7504679C-2218-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041019220159.GA9528@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: <4386.65.74.254.193.1098233088.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > Isn't this from osviews/ osopinion? Yes, it is. Didn't they have a > reviewer named Eugenia .. (something)? you are thinking of osnews.com, this site is osviews.com. yea and i couldn't believe eugenia got paid to write for them :) -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From klimenta Tue Oct 19 21:37:01 2004 From: klimenta (Kliment Andreev) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:37:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041020011623.GK10561@bizintegrators.com> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <20041020011623.GK10561@bizintegrators.com> Message-ID: <4175C13D.1010306@futurebit.com> mlists at bizintegrators.com wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:13:05PM -0400, Dru wrote: > >>http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO >> >>I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought >>was a mistaken belief... > > Yeah, its been like this forever. :) http://openbsd.sabotage.org/ I have a laptop running OpenBSD as a dialin server. I bought 4 t-shirts from their site in the past 2 years. I am definitely buying the next release. Those guys deserve MUCH MORE than that. From bob Tue Oct 19 21:40:18 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:40:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: On Oct 19, 2004, at 21:12, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:13 PM, Dru wrote: > >> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO >> >> I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I >> thought was a mistaken belief... > > Yes. It's their method of trying to inspire cd sales. There doesn't > seem to be any magic bullets. > > It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD > popularity and publicity has increased so drastically. Yeah, I've known about this for a long while also. I'll tell you what though, Theo would have had at least one more purchase of OpenBSD from me if he offered a purchase method that allows you do download the ISO same-day. I just don't have the schedule, organization skills, and patience to order a CD a few days before I'll have time to use it :) Yes, I know I could get a subscription, but I'd still rather just have access to download it and make my own ISO when I need it. -bob From george Tue Oct 19 21:48:04 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:48:04 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 21:12, G. Rosamond wrote: >> It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD >> popularity and publicity has increased so drastically. > > Yeah, I've known about this for a long while also. I'll tell you what > though, Theo would have had at least one more purchase of OpenBSD from > me if he offered a purchase method that allows you do download the ISO > same-day. I just don't have the schedule, organization skills, and > patience to order a CD a few days before I'll have time to use it :) > so get a bsdmall.com subscription and your credit card will be charged with each release and you'll get the cd automatically. http://bsdmall.com/cdsub.html > Yes, I know I could get a subscription, but I'd still rather just have > access to download it and make my own ISO when I need it. > > -bob This would make the most sense to me if you had a subscription, and you then had access to download the ISO as soon as it was available. Of course people will cheat this method, give it to their friends and co-workers, but that would certainly increase attraction of having a subscription. But then they could also have one of those one-time-only downloads by email url. g From pete Tue Oct 19 21:18:02 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <1120.65.74.254.193.1098235082.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Oct 19, 2004, at 21:12, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > > >>> It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD >>> popularity and publicity has increased so drastically. >> >> Yeah, I've known about this for a long while also. I'll tell you what >> though, Theo would have had at least one more purchase of OpenBSD from >> me if he offered a purchase method that allows you do download the ISO >> same-day. I just don't have the schedule, organization skills, and >> patience to order a CD a few days before I'll have time to use it :) >> > > so get a bsdmall.com subscription and your credit card will be charged > with each release and you'll get the cd automatically. > > http://bsdmall.com/cdsub.html > >> Yes, I know I could get a subscription, but I'd still rather just have >> access to download it and make my own ISO when I need it. >> >> -bob > > This would make the most sense to me if you had a subscription, and you > then had access to download the ISO as soon as it was available. Of > course people will cheat this method, give it to their friends and > co-workers, but that would certainly increase attraction of having a > subscription. But then they could also have one of those one-time-only > downloads by email url. just thought i'd add this to the thread, i know a fair amount of people have already recived thier 3.6 cd's due to thier sub's or pre-orders. so that is another benefit of shelling out the $ for a hard copy. -p > g > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From bob Tue Oct 19 21:57:16 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:57:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <5E65CC4C-223B-11D9-B752-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 19, 2004, at 21:48, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Oct 19, 2004, at 21:12, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > > >>> It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD >>> popularity and publicity has increased so drastically. >> >> Yeah, I've known about this for a long while also. I'll tell you >> what though, Theo would have had at least one more purchase of >> OpenBSD from me if he offered a purchase method that allows you do >> download the ISO same-day. I just don't have the schedule, >> organization skills, and patience to order a CD a few days before >> I'll have time to use it :) >> > > so get a bsdmall.com subscription and your credit card will be charged > with each release and you'll get the cd automatically. > > http://bsdmall.com/cdsub.html > >> Yes, I know I could get a subscription, but I'd still rather just >> have access to download it and make my own ISO when I need it. > > This would make the most sense to me if you had a subscription, and > you then had access to download the ISO as soon as it was available. > Of course people will cheat this method, give it to their friends and > co-workers, but that would certainly increase attraction of having a > subscription. But then they could also have one of those > one-time-only downloads by email url. Yeah, the one-time-download would be the way to go. You get one free download (incl. with subscription), then $x per additional download. If you offered this service, I'd subscribe. -bob From george Tue Oct 19 22:07:53 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:07:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <5E65CC4C-223B-11D9-B752-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <5E65CC4C-223B-11D9-B752-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> method, give it to their friends and co-workers, but that would >> certainly increase attraction of having a subscription. But then >> they could also have one of those one-time-only downloads by email >> url. > > Yeah, the one-time-download would be the way to go. You get one free > download (incl. with subscription), then $x per additional download. > If you offered this service, I'd subscribe. > > -bob BSD Mall can't. . . the ISO is copyrighted by Theo. It's his decision on this sort of stuff. We only distribute the cd. g From bob Tue Oct 19 22:25:33 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:25:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <156FC63D-223A-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <5E65CC4C-223B-11D9-B752-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: <51B9D0E4-223F-11D9-B752-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 19, 2004, at 22:07, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> > > > >>> method, give it to their friends and co-workers, but that would >>> certainly increase attraction of having a subscription. But then >>> they could also have one of those one-time-only downloads by email >>> url. >> >> Yeah, the one-time-download would be the way to go. You get one free >> download (incl. with subscription), then $x per additional download. >> If you offered this service, I'd subscribe. > > BSD Mall can't. . . the ISO is copyrighted by Theo. It's his decision > on this sort of stuff. We only distribute the cd. BSD Mall could get permission from the copyright holder... it's more likely to happen than Theo sorting out such a distribution channel himself :) -bob From spork Tue Oct 19 22:52:49 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought was > a mistaken belief... I've only tinkered with OpenBSD on and off, but I've always followed this advice from that page: "We suggest that people who want to download OpenBSD for free use the FTP install option. For those that need a bootable CD for their system, bootdisk ISO images (named cd35.iso) are available for a number of platforms which will then permit the rest of the system to be installed via FTP. These ISO images are only a few megabytes in size, and contain just the installation tools, not the actual file sets." In general, I'm fond of ftp installs anyhow. It is nice that there's a "mini" multi-platform ISO to kickstart the process on floppy-less boxes. Charles > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From scottro Tue Oct 19 23:09:41 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:09:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041020030941.GC14904@scottro11.homeunix.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:52:49PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > > >http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > > install option. For those that need a bootable CD for their system, > bootdisk ISO images (named cd35.iso) are available for a number of > platforms which will then permit the rest of the system to be installed > via FTP. These ISO images are only a few megabytes in size, and contain > just the installation tools, not the actual file sets." > > In general, I'm fond of ftp installs anyhow. It is nice that there's a > "mini" multi-platform ISO to kickstart the process on floppy-less boxes. Not to mention floppy quality control, which has become an oxymoron. I remember the first time I tried to install OBSD--I think I went through, literally, 5 or 6 floppies before getting one to work. TOTAL THREAD HIJAKC --err HIJACK. Seems that 5.3 is up to stable--I had thought it would be RC1, but did a buildworld and got stable. Quick note--for anyone intending to do a portupgrade of openoffice to 1.1.4--cvsup your ports if you haven't since last night. A bug was discovered by (modest cough) me in a patch--sent a quick email to the maintainer, who sent a patch for the patch, and shortly afterwards, another fellow who I guess is another maintainer sent an apologetic email--apparently a mistype on his part--and it is now fixed. So see Tillman, it's a good thing I drink all that caffeine, or it might still be broken. :) Y'know though, it's things like that where one considers--could you see that happening with Windows XP? And actually, considering I don 't know enough to be able to figure out the exact cause of the problem and send a patch myself, probably wouldn't have happened in Linux either. So, take ~that~ OSviews. (see, note how I cleverly brought it back to the original--oh, never mind, that was the other thread of the night) Ok, I'll stop now. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Xander: Jeez. You mean Oz just sent for his stuff and didn't even call her? That's pretty harsh. Anya: I only wish I had my powers back. I'd liquefy his entrails for her. Xander: That's sweet. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBddb1+lTVdes0Z9YRAtZuAKCZFgxBBij+VEKbStYs12/6Uq6+nQCeIeOh fv7HPX22q52NZQvlypziz14= =hYap -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mspitze1 Tue Oct 19 23:41:26 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:41:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041019234126.57f9821b@bogomips.optonline.net> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Dru wrote: > > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I > thought was a mistaken belief... > > Dru yup been that way for as long as I have tracked OBSD, 2.something marc From joshmccormack Wed Oct 20 00:25:52 2004 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:25:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <29BC8360-2235-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <4175E8D0.3060404@travelersdiary.com> G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:13 PM, Dru wrote: > >> >> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO >> >> I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I >> thought was a mistaken belief... >> >> Dru >> > > Yes. It's their method of trying to inspire cd sales. There doesn't > seem to be any magic bullets. > > It's amazing that their cd sales continue to drop, while OBSD popularity > and publicity has increased so drastically. > > g Their fantastic net install is hurting CD sales, from what I hear. I did net install as I didn't have a CD drive, and it was the easiest OS install I think I've ever done. Josh From ike Wed Oct 20 02:37:51 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:37:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <90A1D008-2262-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hey George, On Oct 19, 2004, at 7:35 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug > site. There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in > our library section, IMHO. > > yes, i write compulsively and i did not even reread this. > > * * * * Yo- I'd ask that you not post this (well written) rebuttal to the site, UNTIL, you read the response Dru gave me last month here: http://tinyurl.com/4tl3p -or- http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2004-September/002754.html While I agree with 99% of what you wrote, (sup' with whimping out on the Darwin section Gman?, [it's equally, insultingly, lame with disinformation]), I think your time could be better spent directly writing about *BSD stuff, SOLID, INFORMED, and TRUSTED information. Where's the pages we can point to which explain the culture, development cycles, and strengths of the various *BSD's? (And explain why they're not 'distros'.) Then, next slashdotting of crud like this, we just ALL post responses with nothing more than NYC*BUG urls to solid information... My 02? Rocket- .ike From ike Wed Oct 20 02:52:15 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:52:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] thank-you gift for Kirk Mckusick and Eric Allman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93AFB354-2264-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi All, On Oct 19, 2004, at 11:10 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > *Don't feel obliged, this is just a fun little thank you for these > guys taking time out of their trip. Reporting before bed here, we're doing great collecting dough for Kirk and Eric's wine gift- here's the tally tonight, donations in chronological order, minus PayPal fees (/me shrugs): donation -fees $20 -n/a $5 -$0.45 $5 -$0.45 $50 -$1.75 $5 -$0.45 $20 -$0.88 $5 -$0.45 $20 -$0.88 -- $130 - -$5.31 -- $124.69 Current Total, Wed Oct 20 02:47:01 EDT 2004 Woo-hoo! So we're really getting somewhere here! Deadline, again, is tonight- THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED! Also, minor possible change, it looks like I've been advised to get a gift certificate to wine.com, insomuch as I found out picking wine for wine collectors, would be like writing a nice bash prompt .profile for these guys (insert better UNIX metaphor here if you like). Best, .ike From bob Wed Oct 20 03:46:45 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:46:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <90A1D008-2262-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <90A1D008-2262-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <31078698-226C-11D9-A2F8-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 20, 2004, at 2:37, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hey George, > > On Oct 19, 2004, at 7:35 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug >> site. There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in >> our library section, IMHO. >> >> yes, i write compulsively and i did not even reread this. >> >> * * * * > > Yo- I'd ask that you not post this (well written) rebuttal to the > site, UNTIL, you read the response Dru gave me last month here: > > http://tinyurl.com/4tl3p > -or- > http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2004-September/002754.html > > While I agree with 99% of what you wrote, (sup' with whimping out on > the Darwin section Gman?, [it's equally, insultingly, lame with > disinformation]), I think your time could be better spent directly > writing about *BSD stuff, SOLID, INFORMED, and TRUSTED information. > Where's the pages we can point to which explain the culture, > development cycles, and strengths of the various *BSD's? (And explain > why they're not 'distros'.) """ Other points of improvement are symmetric multi-threading (SMT), NetBSD and OpenBSD binary support, next-generation on-the-fly file de-fragmentation, integration of TrustedBSD security hooks, support for Java 1.5, XHTML 2.0 and CSS 3.0, and a myriad of minor improvements sure to make thousands of developers and end-users happy. Clearly, Darwin is the most inclusive and feature-complete BSD -- and, indeed, UNIX -- out there. """ Ok, I'll bite. First of all, since when does Darwin support NetBSD and OpenBSD binaries? I would be pretty surprised if this was the case, I sure didn't notice. Not that it would do you much good anyway. I heard that NetBSD (perhaps it was FreeBSD) has a compatibility layer *to* Darwin, but not *from* Darwin. As for TrustedBSD security hooks, that at least sounds reasonable, but I haven't heard anything about it either way. Java 1.5, XHTML, and CSS related software IS NOT PART OF DARWIN FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, that shit ONLY ships with OS X proper. -bob From okan Wed Oct 20 08:43:40 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:43:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> On Tue 2004.10.19 at 19:35 -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > if i get some positive comments here, i will submit to the nycbug site. > There's nothing wrong with us putting up pieces like this in our > library section, IMHO. I know many people have said to hold back on posting this, which I kinda agree with, however I'd like to acknowledge that you actually wrote a response. Thank you for that. Back to ....... Cheers, Okan -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From tillman Wed Oct 20 10:09:20 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:09:20 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? In-Reply-To: <20041020030941.GC14904@scottro11.homeunix.net> References: <20041019211120.H544@dru.domain.org> <20041020030941.GC14904@scottro11.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20041020140920.GT53845@seekingfire.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 11:09:41PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > TOTAL THREAD HIJAKC --err HIJACK. > > Seems that 5.3 is up to stable--I had thought it would be RC1, but did > a buildworld and got stable. Yeah, I saw that in the "cvs-src summary for October 11-18" email: =============== Notable changes =============== RELENG_5_3 moves into RC, RELENG_5 becomes -STABLE -------------------------------------------------- Scott Long (scottl) created the RELENG_5_3 branch, moving 5.3 from beta to Release Candidate status. At the same time, he made the RELENG_5 branch into the new -STABLE. http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200410161926.i9GJQEQA026728 I guess I should start planning my migrations. Most of them are of the "install 5.3 on a new machines and replace an existing RELENG_4 machine with it", cascade and repeat variety. I've got one box with mor SCSI devices than I can count that's heavily vinum dependent (now gvinum, I guess) that I'm dreading converting. It might live as RELENG_4 for another year or so. > Quick note--for anyone intending to do a portupgrade of openoffice to > 1.1.4--cvsup your ports if you haven't since last night. A bug was > discovered by (modest cough) me in a patch--sent a quick email to the > maintainer, who sent a patch for the patch, and shortly afterwards, > another fellow who I guess is another maintainer sent an apologetic > email--apparently a mistype on his part--and it is now fixed. You know, I still don't have a machine beefy enough to build OO.org[1], and http://projects.imp.ch/openoffice/ still has 1.1.0_1 as the most recent package set. Any chance you have packages suitable for 4-STABLE kicking around on an FTP site? > So see Tillman, it's a good thing I drink all that caffeine, or it > might still be broken. :) LOL! And you were only up until 11, so it seems you avoided the usual side-effects ;-) > So, take ~that~ OSviews. (see, note how I cleverly brought it back to > the original--oh, never mind, that was the other thread of the night) > > Ok, I'll stop now. See, with a bit more caffeine you might've keep on truckin' *grin*. -T 1. Of course, I tend to collect older hardware so "beefy" is definitely relative in this case. http://www.seekingfire.com/projects/e3hardware/ -- Everything leads us to believe that there exists a certain point of the intelligence at which life and death, the real and the imaginary, the past and the future ... cease to be perceived as opposites. Andre Breton From JBrown Wed Oct 20 11:07:51 2004 From: JBrown (Brown, James Jim) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:07:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org To: NYC Bug List Sent: 10/19/04 9:13 PM Subject: [nycbug-talk] did you guys know this? http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO I never would have believed it if I hadn't had to research what I thought was a mistaken belief... Dru My understanding is that it's the format that is copyrighted, not the content. There has been at least one CD install project for OBSD. Check the archives from undeadly.org. I remember it being about a year ago, maybe a bit more. What I ususally do is download all the sets and run my installs off a local FTP server. Saves time. Best Regards, Jim B. Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ThruPoint, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041020/57b52878/attachment.html From ike Wed Oct 20 11:38:45 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:38:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 20, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > > > I know many people have said to hold back on posting this, which I > kinda agree with, however I'd like to acknowledge that you actually > wrote a response. Thank you for that. > > Back to ....... > > Cheers, > Okan I totally agree, George, thanks for writing this. Rocket- .ike From george Wed Oct 20 12:36:40 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:36:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 20, 2004, at 11:38 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 20, 2004, at 8:43 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > >> >> >> I know many people have said to hold back on posting this, which I >> kinda agree with, however I'd like to acknowledge that you actually >> wrote a response. Thank you for that. >> >> Back to ....... >> >> Cheers, >> Okan > > I totally agree, George, thanks for writing this. > The consensus has been against posting it. Therefore I won't. But my case for it is putting it up since it's a polemical attack against a conscious or subconscious attack. I also think we should make an attempt to include more debate on the site. . .not just the list. maybe a library section on 'opinions' so it's understood that this is one individual's opinion in NYCBUG. I mostly agree with Dru's points a while back on this, but I also see nothing wrong with the "eye-for-an-eye" approach to this stuff when the demand is there . . .particularly when my piece, in hindsight, actually sums up the responses on OBSD-misc and OSViews itself. A full piece could become a referenced piece when people google the article. I had a great senior yearbook quote. . ."Thanks for the flowers, but i wish you hadn't waited for the funeral." But yes, I will follow and accept the consensus. g also. . . Yes, it had a nasty tone, but have anyone else watched the Yankees these past three games? From tillman Wed Oct 20 12:45:54 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:45:54 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041020164554.GF53845@seekingfire.com> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 12:36:40PM -0400, G. Rosamond wrote: > > also. . . Yes, it had a nasty tone, but have anyone else watched the > Yankees these past three games? The "Yankees" ... that's either a baseball team or a hockey team, right? ;-) -T -- "To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks." -- Robert Heinlein From ike Wed Oct 20 13:07:37 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:07:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <8ADD18E4-22BA-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Word, On Oct 20, 2004, at 12:36 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > I had a great senior yearbook quote. . ."Thanks for the flowers, but i > wish you hadn't waited for the funeral." Damn. Not bad. > > > > But yes, I will follow and accept the consensus. > > g > > also. . . Yes, it had a nasty tone, but have anyone else watched the > Yankees these past three games? Yeah- made a baseball fan out of me... (seriously!) Rocket- .ike From sunny-ml Wed Oct 20 13:55:02 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:55:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <200410201355.03005.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 12:36, G. Rosamond wrote: > g > > also. . . Yes, it had a nasty tone, but have anyone else watched the > Yankees these past three games? I think u might find this funny ..... http://opencurve.org/~sunny/misc/linda_shirt.jpg Sunny Dubey a Mets fan From dan Wed Oct 20 14:01:04 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <200410201355.03005.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410201355.03005.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041020140009.A24123@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > http://opencurve.org/~sunny/misc/linda_shirt.jpg That is similar to a common rugby shirt: I support two two team. New Zealand, and anyone playing against Australia. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From ike Wed Oct 20 14:17:15 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:17:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? Message-ID: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi all, I've got a new one for myself here, and am shouting out for a url or somesuch to point me in the right direction. It's low priority here, this is for personal fun... I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how to properly diagnose the broken drives, and don't want to trash the ones which are still funcitoning- but I'm even having problems booting with the drives plugged in (disk geometry crapola). Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something which justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some new drives... Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) Rocket- .ike From dave-dated-1098901605.c003f7 Wed Oct 20 14:27:13 2004 From: dave-dated-1098901605.c003f7 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:27:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: > I've got a new one for myself here, and am shouting out for a url or > somesuch to point me in the right direction. It's low priority here, > this is for personal fun... > > I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how > to properly diagnose the broken drives, and don't want to trash the > ones which are still funcitoning- but I'm even having problems booting > with the drives plugged in (disk geometry crapola). > > Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort > out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something > which justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some > new drives... > > Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as > I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and > intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) Atactl can provide details on SMART values if your drives support it. Then again, I've never really come across anything too interesting from SMART diagnostics, but maybe I just haven't seen the right disks. It always felt like black magic to me, so I dunno. :-) Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From spork Wed Oct 20 14:27:44 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: The best I can offer is to browse Freshports.org for recently added ports. I remember someone pointing me to something that was designed to "check out" flakey IDE drives... I just can't remember the name. Charles On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got a new one for myself here, and am shouting out for a url or somesuch > to point me in the right direction. It's low priority here, this is for > personal fun... > > I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how to > properly diagnose the broken drives, and don't want to trash the ones which > are still funcitoning- but I'm even having problems booting with the drives > plugged in (disk geometry crapola). > > Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort out > which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something which > justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some new drives... > > Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as I've > grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and intuitive gui > tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) > > Rocket- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From tux Wed Oct 20 14:41:48 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:41:48 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <019b01c4b6d4$780b8780$0500a8c0@apollo> : Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort : out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something : which justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some new : drives... Years ago I used to use Norton Utilities, but I don't think you can get it unless you buy the super-duper-high-dollar package it comes with now that's a huge POS IMHO - Norton SystemWorks. I might still have a copy here I can .zip of .iso for ya.. : Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as : I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and : intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) Try looking here: http://www.sysresccd.org/ Some pretty good tools all on 1 bootable CD. I particularly like the partimaged tool.. Let me know if you want more, 'cuz I've got Ton-O-Stuff(tm) :) -Kevin From marco Wed Oct 20 14:35:54 2004 From: marco (marco at metm.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:35:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041020183553.GF27945@metm.org> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 02:17:15PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > >Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort >out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something >which justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some new >drives... > >Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as >I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and >intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) > the va-ctcs are just some perl scripts which run generic programs like gcc to test hardware. It includes a test for hardisks. It is linux based (developed my va linux), but may work for the bsds as it uses pretty generic stuff. (perhaps trish knows... :) http://sourceforge.net/projects/va-ctcs/ also there is this older project specifically for ide harddisks that analyses the smart info (never used it) http://csl.cse.ucsc.edu/smart.shtml -- Marco From jesse Wed Oct 20 14:55:18 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:55:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <96528D8D-22C9-11D9-A34F-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> On Oct 20, 2004, at 2:27 PM, Dave Steinberg wrote: >> I've got a new one for myself here, and am shouting out for a url or >> somesuch to point me in the right direction. It's low priority here, >> this is for personal fun... >> >> I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how >> to properly diagnose the broken drives, and don't want to trash the >> ones which are still funcitoning- but I'm even having problems >> booting with the drives plugged in (disk geometry crapola). >> >> Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me >> sort out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for >> something which justifies the time spent doing this over just >> purchasing some new drives... >> >> Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as >> I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and >> intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) > > Atactl can provide details on SMART values if your drives support it. > Then again, I've never really come across anything too interesting > from SMART diagnostics, but maybe I just haven't seen the right disks. > It always felt like black magic to me, so I dunno. :-) > > Regards, > -- > Dave Steinberg > http://www.geekisp.com/ > SMART will at least tell you which ones are sketchy. Check the vendor IBM, WD, Seagate, Maxtor... they ought to have a floppy you can make with diagnostics. THe + here is that RMA is almost non-disputable if in the time limit. From nycbug Wed Oct 20 15:11:46 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:11:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041020191146.GA671@florian.hastek.net> Isaac Levy: > I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how > to properly diagnose the broken drives - mfr diagnostic program (usually downloadable diskette) - mfr firmware upgrade (if applicable or supported) - replace any questionable cabling with known good - smart diagnostics if drive supports SMART - fsck check bad blocks Out of warranty drives are usually not worth your valuable time! From ike Wed Oct 20 15:21:51 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:21:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <20041020191146.GA671@florian.hastek.net> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041020191146.GA671@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: <4B4DE2CD-22CD-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 20, 2004, at 3:11 PM, a nice bug wrote: > Out of warranty drives are usually not worth your valuable time! After looking at the options, and doing priceline for drive prices, I'm beginning to think so- (a big ! is in a cartoon bubble over my head right now). Rocket- .ike From pete Wed Oct 20 15:05:06 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah Message-ID: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> http://news.com.com/Hacker+strikes+university+computer+system/2100-7349_3-5418388.html this was on freebsd-chat today... -pete ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ike Wed Oct 20 15:43:57 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:43:57 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <6226EFD8-22D0-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 20, 2004, at 3:05 PM, pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > http://news.com.com/Hacker+strikes+university+computer+system/2100 > -7349_3-5418388.html > > this was on freebsd-chat today... Wholly moses. Rocket- .ike From george Wed Oct 20 15:46:45 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:46:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo Message-ID: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From fifi Wed Oct 20 15:46:26 2004 From: fifi (Mike Sawicki) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:46:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> Message-ID: <20041020194625.GF37230@HAX.ORG> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 03:46:45PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > MCI in Carteret has been good. It's right off the Turnpike, exit 12. Mike Sawicki (fifi at HAX.ORG) From chsnyder Wed Oct 20 15:52:18 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:52:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <6226EFD8-22D0-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <6226EFD8-22D0-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: Slashdot comment ( http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=126365&cid=10575302 ) says it was an MS SQL Server box. From lists Wed Oct 20 16:06:46 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:06:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:05:06 -0700 (PDT) pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > > http://news.com.com/Hacker+strikes+university+computer+system/2100-7349_3-5418388.html > > this was on freebsd-chat today... > > -pete > Your are not bragging are ya, pete? -- --- From ike Wed Oct 20 16:14:33 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:14:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: On Oct 20, 2004, at 4:06 PM, michael wrote: > Your are not bragging are ya, pete? Suspicious indeed after your move out west! Hrm... .ike From pete Wed Oct 20 15:48:10 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <27657.160.33.20.11.1098301690.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:05:06 -0700 (PDT) > pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > >> >> http://news.com.com/Hacker+strikes+university+computer+system/2100-7349_3-5418388.html >> >> this was on freebsd-chat today... >> >> -pete >> well being a so-cal resident i can't mask how much i hate the bay area ;p but no, this isn't the box that i root'd at UCB...er i mean i've never done anything like that ;) ok i should be quite now before i get myself in trouble. -p > > Your are not bragging are ya, pete? > > > -- > --- > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From ike Wed Oct 20 16:38:20 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:38:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <27657.160.33.20.11.1098301690.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041020160646.79f5236c@delinux.abwatley.com> <27657.160.33.20.11.1098301690.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Oct 20, 2004, at 3:48 PM, pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > well being a so-cal resident i can't mask how much i hate the bay area > ;p Um, we gotta do a rescue mission- the California sun is doing something to Pete's head. http://thehound.net/19930227/mp3s/start56.mp3 > but no, this isn't the box that i root'd at UCB...er i mean i've never > done anything like that ;) Yeah, that makes sense- you'd be rooting the *NIX boxen. > ok i should be quite now before i get myself > in trouble. No comment. Rocket- .ike From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 20 17:06:25 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] review of "state of demon address" In-Reply-To: <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <949C4D6A-2227-11D9-83DE-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020124340.GA27297@yinaska.pair.com> <211EF246-22AE-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <38618C8E-22B6-11D9-8CFA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041020165450.L544@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > But my case for it is putting it up since it's a polemical attack against a > conscious or subconscious attack. I also think we should make an attempt to > include more debate on the site. . .not just the list. maybe a library > section on 'opinions' so it's understood that this is one individual's > opinion in NYCBUG. > > I mostly agree with Dru's points a while back on this, but I also see nothing > wrong with the "eye-for-an-eye" approach to this stuff when the demand is > there . . .particularly when my piece, in hindsight, actually sums up the > responses on OBSD-misc and OSViews itself. A full piece could become a > referenced piece when people google the article. I see 2 separate entities here both of which could prove very useful. The first deals with strategic article placement as discussed earlier. I think we all agree that George's piece doesn't belong there. The second is George's "debate" idea which I think is a very useful resource and George's opinion piece could be a good starting point. The question is, what's the best way of achieving this without creating something that deteriorates into Slashdot drivel? Debates should be passionate and give equal airtime to both points of view. Perhaps an impartial moderator is the key (always present in debates). Would be interesting to see George and Paul Webb go head to head, assuming we could track down the mystery Paul--Osviews didn't give a description or email... Anonymity isn't all that useful in debates. Dru From sunny-ml Wed Oct 20 17:14:03 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:14:03 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> Message-ID: <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:46, George Georgalis wrote: > Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? The former Exodus (now Savvis) datacenter somewhere in NJ ? (IIRC Newark) I don't know who resells space there there, but I remember hearing good things about that datacenter sorry for the lack of info. Sunny Dubey From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 20 17:39:15 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors Message-ID: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said that Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on his RedHat laptop instead. It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? Or is there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? Dru From mlists Wed Oct 20 17:36:26 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:36:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041020213626.GL10561@bizintegrators.com> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 05:14:03PM -0400, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:46, George Georgalis wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > > The former Exodus (now Savvis) datacenter somewhere in NJ ? (IIRC Newark) There is one in Jersey City and one in Wheehawken that I know of for sure. From chrisc Wed Oct 20 18:44:38 2004 From: chrisc (Chris Coleman) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] DN Ezine Message-ID: <20041020154313.O64843@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Hi, I'm looking for content for the next two issues of DN Ezine. If you can write about BSD, its a really good way to get your name out as well as help other BSD users by letting them know what you use BSD for. Also, I also need quite a bit of help editing the content we do receive. The last issue I had very little help and it shows. -Chris From pete Wed Oct 20 18:35:43 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <3290.65.74.254.193.1098311743.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into > video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said that > Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on his > RedHat laptop instead. > > It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if > there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? Or is > there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? > assuming you both have the same model, or atleast video chipset, you may want to try copying the working XFree86-4 config file to the target machine. I'm willing to bet it's something with the X config and not the video card, or I/O port, itself. Altho I could be completely wrong, which despite my last name, is often the case ;) -pete (sometimes) wright > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 20 19:27:11 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <3290.65.74.254.193.1098311743.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> <3290.65.74.254.193.1098311743.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041020192510.A544@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > >> >> Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into >> video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said that >> Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on his >> RedHat laptop instead. >> >> It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if >> there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? Or is >> there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? >> > > assuming you both have the same model, or atleast video chipset, you may > want to try copying the working XFree86-4 config file to the target > machine. I'm willing to bet it's something with the X config and not the > video card, or I/O port, itself. Altho I could be completely wrong, which > despite my last name, is often the case ;) Hmmm. Even the startup messages didn't display. They did on other laptops running Suse, 2000, Redhat, etc. The guy said he thought it was because it was an older projector. I'm just wondering if I'll hit the same issue in Germany. Dru From george Wed Oct 20 19:50:12 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:50:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] DN Ezine In-Reply-To: <20041020154313.O64843@ithildin.daemonnews.org> References: <20041020154313.O64843@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Message-ID: On Oct 20, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Chris Coleman wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for content for the next two issues of DN Ezine. If you > can > write about BSD, its a really good way to get your name out as well as > help other BSD users by letting them know what you use BSD for. > > Also, I also need quite a bit of help editing the content we do > receive. > The last issue I had very little help and it shows. > And September is online: http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200409/ I did a video interview with Matt Dillon from DragonFly that is in here. . . Writing for DN is a great way to get those how-to's, faq's, white papers, etc, online with a great audience. I strongly encourage people to get involved with DN. . .it's the main vehicle of the BSD community. . .no walls between the projects there. . . g From dlavigne6 Wed Oct 20 20:36:31 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <20041020192510.A544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> <3290.65.74.254.193.1098311743.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041020192510.A544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041020203328.U544@dru.domain.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > >> >>> >>> Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into >>> video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said that >>> Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on his >>> RedHat laptop instead. >>> >>> It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if >>> there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? Or is >>> there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? >>> >> >> assuming you both have the same model, or atleast video chipset, you may >> want to try copying the working XFree86-4 config file to the target >> machine. I'm willing to bet it's something with the X config and not the >> video card, or I/O port, itself. Altho I could be completely wrong, which >> despite my last name, is often the case ;) > > > Hmmm. Even the startup messages didn't display. They did on other laptops > running Suse, 2000, Redhat, etc. The guy said he thought it was because it > was an older projector. I'm just wondering if I'll hit the same issue in > Germany. Got it. It's a CMOS setting. Go to Display->Boot Display Device, choose Both (as opposed to LCD or CRT). Dru From pete Wed Oct 20 20:24:51 2004 From: pete (pete at nomadlogic.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <20041020203328.U544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> <3290.65.74.254.193.1098311743.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <20041020192510.A544@dru.domain.org> <20041020203328.U544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <3932.65.74.254.193.1098318291.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> > > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Dru wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: >> >>> >>>> >>>> Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into >>>> video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said >>>> that >>>> Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on his >>>> RedHat laptop instead. >>>> >>>> It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if >>>> there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? >>>> Or is >>>> there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? >>>> >>> >>> assuming you both have the same model, or atleast video chipset, you >>> may >>> want to try copying the working XFree86-4 config file to the target >>> machine. I'm willing to bet it's something with the X config and not >>> the >>> video card, or I/O port, itself. Altho I could be completely wrong, >>> which >>> despite my last name, is often the case ;) >> >> >> Hmmm. Even the startup messages didn't display. They did on other >> laptops >> running Suse, 2000, Redhat, etc. The guy said he thought it was because >> it >> was an older projector. I'm just wondering if I'll hit the same issue in >> Germany. > > > Got it. It's a CMOS setting. Go to Display->Boot Display Device, choose > Both (as opposed to LCD or CRT). ahh execellent! it's funny, i actually remeber setting that in the BIOS when i was trouble shooting some other stuff. -p ~~~oO00Oo~~~ Pete Wright email: pete at nomadlogic.org mobile: 917.415.9866 web: www.nomadlogic.org/~pete********* From mspitze1 Wed Oct 20 22:18:59 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:18:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] woah In-Reply-To: <6226EFD8-22D0-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <54882.160.33.20.11.1098299106.squirrel@www.nomadlogic.org> <6226EFD8-22D0-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041020221859.48c719c2@bogomips.optonline.net> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:43:57 -0400 Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 20, 2004, at 3:05 PM, pete at nomadlogic.org wrote: > > > http://news.com.com/Hacker+strikes+university+computer+system/2100 > > -7349_3-5418388.html > > > > this was on freebsd-chat today... > > Wholly moses. See less government is better government. marc > > Rocket- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From mspitze1 Wed Oct 20 22:23:43 2004 From: mspitze1 (Marc Spitzer) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:23:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041020222343.6f4e2143@bogomips.optonline.net> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Dru wrote: > > Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into > video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said > that Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on > his RedHat laptop instead. > > It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if > there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? > Or is there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? I have a T30 and it has worked on the few rare occasions when I have done it, not recently though. If I remember correctly there is one of the blue special keys(fn key + key) that switches the video between the connector in back and the screen. and this was on 4.X Hope it helps, marc > > Dru > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month From dan Wed Oct 20 22:26:31 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] laptops and projectors In-Reply-To: <20041020222343.6f4e2143@bogomips.optonline.net> References: <20041020173429.X544@dru.domain.org> <20041020222343.6f4e2143@bogomips.optonline.net> Message-ID: <20041020222554.V86120@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Marc Spitzer wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:39:15 -0400 (EDT) > Dru wrote: > > > > > Anyone know the answer to this one? The projector at GTEC (plugs into > > video port of laptop) wouldn't display my laptop screen. The guy said > > that Debian laptops have the same problem. We had to put my slides on > > his RedHat laptop instead. > > > > It's obviously not hardware as we both had Thinkpads. Anyone know if > > there's some sort of kernel option I need to compile into my kernel? > > Or is there some sort of driver needed that BSD doesn't support? > > I have a T30 and it has worked on the few rare occasions when I have > done it, not recently though. If I remember correctly there is one of > the blue special keys(fn key + key) that switches the video between the > connector in back and the screen. and this was on 4.X Sometimes you have to press it a few times, to get it right. I think. Also, try booting with it connected to the projector. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From george Wed Oct 20 22:38:22 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:38:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] osviews article. . . Message-ID: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> at least there's *some* good news tonight. . http://osviews.com/modules.php? op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2557 From dan Wed Oct 20 22:40:27 2004 From: dan (Dan Langille) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] osviews article. . . In-Reply-To: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041020224007.E86120@xeon.unixathome.org> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > at least there's *some* good news tonight. . > > http://osviews.com/modules.php? > op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2557 "This article has been removed because many points made within it have been deemed unfactual." Good on them. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference: http://www.bsdcan.org/ From nycbug Wed Oct 20 22:54:25 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:54:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: osviews article. . . In-Reply-To: <20041020224007.E86120@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020224007.E86120@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20041021025425.GA2284@florian.hastek.net> Dan Langille: > "This article has been removed because many points made within it have > been deemed unfactual." > > Good on them. Hilariously, it doesn't help their case that, even when crafting a retraction, some part of it comes out utterly wrong - "unfactual" isn't a word in the English language. A moment of free levity and now back to the real world. Harold From bob Wed Oct 20 23:07:32 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:07:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: osviews article. . . In-Reply-To: <20041021025425.GA2284@florian.hastek.net> References: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041020224007.E86120@xeon.unixathome.org> <20041021025425.GA2284@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: <598799F4-230E-11D9-A940-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 20, 2004, at 22:54, a nice bug wrote: > Dan Langille: > >> "This article has been removed because many points made within it have >> been deemed unfactual." >> >> Good on them. > > Hilariously, it doesn't help their case that, even when crafting a > retraction, some part of it comes out utterly wrong - "unfactual" > isn't a word in the English language. A moment of free levity and > now back to the real world. I came across one of those last night in the man page for darwin's installer(8): "authentification". I kinda like it. -bob From jeff.knight Wed Oct 20 23:21:54 2004 From: jeff.knight (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:21:54 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <2ca9ba910410202021302f6f31@mail.gmail.com> Check out http://grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm not *BSD (FreeDOS!), but very thorough On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:17:15 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me sort > out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for something > which justifies the time spent doing this over just purchasing some new > drives... I'm Jeff Knight, and I approved this message From o_sleep Thu Oct 21 00:38:11 2004 From: o_sleep (O_Sleep) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:38:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <037BD2E2-231B-11D9-9E56-003065A248EA@belovedarctos.com> On Oct 20, 2004, at 2:27 PM, Dave Steinberg wrote: >> I've got a new one for myself here, and am shouting out for a url or >> somesuch to point me in the right direction. It's low priority here, >> this is for personal fun... >> >> I've got a fistfull of failing drives here. I'm not sure exactly how >> to properly diagnose the broken drives, and don't want to trash the >> ones which are still funcitoning- but I'm even having problems >> booting with the drives plugged in (disk geometry crapola). >> >> Does anyone know any good shell utilities to diagnose and help me >> sort out which drives are good and bad, any BSD os? Looking for >> something which justifies the time spent doing this over just >> purchasing some new drives... >> >> Perhaps tools I can use after booting from CD? (btw, I'm stumped as >> I've grown up in the Mac world of drive repair, always simple and >> intuitive gui tools for this kind of thing when I need it...) > > Atactl can provide details on SMART values if your drives support it. > Then again, I've never really come across anything too interesting > from SMART diagnostics, but maybe I just haven't seen the right disks. > It always felt like black magic to me, so I dunno. :-) I didn't find this tool, but I did find /sbin/atacontrol FreeBSD. Typing atacontrol cap channel drive (e.g. atacontrol cap 0 0 ) returns a bunch of info including SMART status. Mine says Support: yes Enable: no. Anyone know how to enable SMART? -Bjorn From ike Thu Oct 21 00:40:09 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:40:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] osviews article. . . In-Reply-To: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <46AC12DD-230A-11D9-B65E-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <4A074B40-231B-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 20, 2004, at 10:38 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > at least there's *some* good news tonight. . > > http://osviews.com/modules.php? > op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2557 Solid. Rocket- .ike From dave-dated-1098965021.4a0779 Thu Oct 21 08:04:06 2004 From: dave-dated-1098965021.4a0779 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:04:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] how to test dying disks? In-Reply-To: <037BD2E2-231B-11D9-9E56-003065A248EA@belovedarctos.com> References: <452F6136-22C4-11D9-8BD1-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <037BD2E2-231B-11D9-9E56-003065A248EA@belovedarctos.com> Message-ID: <4EB19ADC-2359-11D9-990F-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> >> Atactl can provide details on SMART values if your drives support it. >> Then again, I've never really come across anything too interesting >> from SMART diagnostics, but maybe I just haven't seen the right >> disks. It always felt like black magic to me, so I dunno. :-) > > I didn't find this tool, but I did find /sbin/atacontrol FreeBSD. > Typing atacontrol cap channel drive (e.g. atacontrol cap 0 0 ) > returns a bunch of info including SMART status. Mine says Support: > yes Enable: no. Anyone know how to enable SMART? They're the same tools basically, OpenBSD just calls it atactl. On OpenBSD at least, the man page has details about enabling smart, and reading the values (and a suggestion for a super-simple monitoring script via cron). http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi? query=atactl&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=OpenBSD+Current&arch=i386&forma t=html Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From george Thu Oct 21 14:48:29 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:48:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party Message-ID: We are going to be co-sponsoring a holiday party with New York PHP this December 15th. It looks like it could be an enormous event, as the New York Linux User Group, LESMUUG and others are joining in the efforts. This could potentially become an annual event. We are on the verge of getting a number of significant corporate backers for the event, including publishers, software vendors, etc. We are looking to rent a space either at a hotel or a bar, and depending on corporate sponsors, we hope to have at least a couple of drinks free per person. Within a week or two, there will be a site up to do RSVPs. For this event, we encourage all to bring their significant others and coworkers. If anyone needs a copy of the corporate/user group invite, please email me off list, and I can send it. It will also be available on the event www site. I would also recommend that we cancel our December monthly meeting, as the other groups are doing, so that we can focus attention to this event. Be sure to keep December 15th open. It should be an awesome event, and hopefully the first step in getting the New York City user groups to do more joint events. g From trish Thu Oct 21 15:03:09 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041021150234.I1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:46, George Georgalis wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > > The former Exodus (now Savvis) datacenter somewhere in NJ ? (IIRC Newark) > > I don't know who resells space there there, but I remember hearing good things > about that datacenter > > sorry for the lack of info. > Jersey City and Weehawken as far as I know. -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From george Thu Oct 21 15:18:55 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:18:55 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> Message-ID: <20041021191854.GB8387@run> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 03:46:45PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: >Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > Thanks all for the pointers, will provide impressions when I have them... // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From spork Thu Oct 21 15:22:02 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041021191854.GB8387@run> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <20041021191854.GB8387@run> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, George Georgalis wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 03:46:45PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? I didn't see any mention of them, but NAC.net has a facility in Parsipany (sp?), NJ. Not sure if you need something closer to the NYC area or not. There's also a nice facility run by Tellurian.net, but they are out in Sussex county somewhere. Charles > > Thanks all for the pointers, will provide impressions when I have them... > > // George > > -- > George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE > http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From joshmccormack Thu Oct 21 15:22:51 2004 From: joshmccormack (Josh McCormack) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:22:51 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41780C8B.1030006@travelersdiary.com> G. Rosamond wrote: > We are going to be co-sponsoring a holiday party with New York PHP this > December 15th. > > It looks like it could be an enormous event, as the New York Linux User > Group, LESMUUG and others are joining in the efforts. This could > potentially become an annual event. It's an exciting era in the Berkeley Software Distribution party world. The FreeBSD folks, confused and timid from multiple branches of their OS may not make it. The netBSD people are too insecure and useless to make it, though the party will be based on their port of a previous party. The OpenBSD guys and gals will likely not make in the door, do to embarrassing explosions of vitriol. Parties are warned to avoid them in the parking lot. The Darwin elite are already working on next years party, which might work well for Gentoo-ists from the NYLUG, who started preparing for this years party last month and will be set with the most up to date part ever some time in late January. The rest of the NYLUG may only be attending in emulation. Otherwise, should be a great time for all. Josh From valen Thu Oct 21 16:09:45 2004 From: valen (Valen Jones) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:09:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041021191854.GB8387@run> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <20041021191854.GB8387@run> Message-ID: <20041021200944.GA29865@panix.com> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 03:18:55PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 03:46:45PM -0400, George Georgalis wrote: > >Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > > > > Thanks all for the pointers, will provide impressions when I have them... > > // George > Hi, I'm just lurking here, but I have some information about colos in NJ. There is a "Carrier Hotel" in downtown Newark where several companies have colo space. It is an old building where they have located all the cabling in the former elevator shafts. I don't recall which companies are there, but I know that datapipe - http://www.datapipe.com - is subleasing space there. From alex Thu Oct 21 16:09:55 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041021200944.GA29865@panix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Valen Jones wrote: > There is a "Carrier Hotel" in downtown Newark where several companies > have colo space. It is an old building where they have located all the > cabling in the former elevator shafts. I don't recall which companies > are there, but I know that datapipe - http://www.datapipe.com - is > subleasing space there. That's 165 Halsey. There are bunch of colos in there: Equinix, Qwest, MCI, etc. datapipe has space in equinix suite. -alex From george Thu Oct 21 15:03:53 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:03:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party Message-ID: We are going to be co-sponsoring a holiday party with New York PHP this December 15th. It looks like it could be an enormous event, as the New York Linux User Group, LESMUUG and others are joining in the efforts. This could potentially become an annual event. We are on the verge of getting a number of significant corporate backers for the event, including publishers, software vendors, etc. We are looking to rent a space either at a hotel or a bar, and depending on corporate sponsors, we hope to have at least a couple of drinks free per person. Within a week or two, there will be a site up to do RSVPs. For this event, we encourage all to bring their significant others and coworkers. If anyone needs a copy of the corporate/user group invite, please email me off list, and I can send it. It will also be available on the event www site. I would also recommend that we cancel our December monthly meeting, as the other groups are doing, so that we can focus attention to this event. Be sure to keep December 15th open. It should be an awesome event, and hopefully the first step in getting the New York City user groups to do more joint events. g From sunny-ml Thu Oct 21 16:56:47 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:56:47 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041021150234.I1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <200410201714.03251.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041021150234.I1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <200410211656.47797.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Thursday 21 October 2004 15:03, you wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > > On Wednesday 20 October 2004 15:46, George Georgalis wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend a high grade colo facility in NJ? > > > > The former Exodus (now Savvis) datacenter somewhere in NJ ? (IIRC Newark) > > > > I don't know who resells space there there, but I remember hearing good > > things about that datacenter > > > > sorry for the lack of info. > > Jersey City and Weehawken as far as I know. yeah I remember them hosting irc.exodus.net for a while ... which seemed to be the main link between the US/CA and the EU, heh (and then there was the skirmish with the exodus.jp server) Sunny Dubey a former EFnet fan ... From lists Thu Oct 21 17:12:14 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:12:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw: Newsletter from O'Reilly Message-ID: <20041021171214.2ab82442@delinux.abwatley.com> Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:59:00 -0700 Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, October 21 ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members October 21, 2004 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -iPod and iTunes Hacks -JUnit Pocket Guide -SELinux -SWT: A Developer's Notebook -Build Your Own Database Driven Website Using PHP and MySQL, 3rd Edition -Real World Web Services -iPod Fan Book -Modding Mac OS X -SQL in a Nutshell, 2nd Edition -Mac OS X Power Hound, Panther Edition -Windows XP Power Hound ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Dan Gillmor ("We The Media"), Barnes & Noble, San Jose--November 4 -MySQL ComCon Europe, Germany Frankfurt-- November 9-10 -Niel M. Bornstein (".NET and XML"), XML 2004 Conference and Exposition, Washington, DC--November 15-19 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Attending the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference? Come Join Us! -Last Chance to Register for O'Reilly's Mac OS X Conference -Call for Participation: The MySQL Users Conference-- Proposals are due by November 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Enter for a Chance to Win Top-of-the-Line Components So You Can Build Your Own Perfect PC -Point-and-Click Phishing -Google Your Desktop -Turning the Tables Using CSS -Displaying Pocket PC and Smartphone Screens on Your PC -Storming the Microsoft Edifice -Seven Cool Mono Apps -Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses -Mac OS X Power Hound Helpful Hints, Part 1 -TenCon Fly-by -Extend your AirPort Network with AirPort Express -Power Hound Tips for Online Protection -Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 -Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 2 -An Introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming with the Spring Framework, Part 2 -Create and Read J2SE 5.0 Annotations with the ASM Bytecode Toolkit ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? 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If you want to get under the hood and tap every iPod trick available, this book will take you beyond the obvious with 100 undocumented tips, tricks, and trade secrets that will delight, entertain, and add astonishing power to your iPod and iTunes experience. Explore, experiment, create shortcuts, and unearth cool and unexpected things. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodtuneshks 10 sample hacks are available online: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ipodtuneshks/chapter/index.html ***JUnit Pocket Guide Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596007434 While there are bits of documentation all over the place, there is no go-to manual that serves as a quick reference for JUnit. Until now. This Pocket Guide meets that need, bringing together all the hard-to-remember information, syntax, and rules for working with JUnit, as well as delivering the insight and sage advice that can only come from a technology's creator. 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This new edition also includes more code examples and a bonus chapter on structured PHP programming that introduces techniques for organizing real-world PHP applications. ***Real World Web Services Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600642X The core idea behind this book is simple: after years of hype, what are the major players really doing with web services? Standards bodies may wrangle and platform vendors may preach, but at the end of the day, what are the technologies that are actually in use and how can developers incorporate them into their own applications? 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Sessions on diverse topics such as"Performance Tuning J2EE Applications deployed on MySQL," "Lowering TCOs for SAP Environments with MaxDB," and a two-part introduction to MySQL Cluster will be presented by MySQL core developers, expert trainers and MySQL community leaders. http://mysqlcomconeurope.com/ ***Niel M. Bornstein (".NET and XML"), XML 2004 Conference and Exposition, Washington, DC--November 15-19 Niel presents a tutorial based on his book at this annual event. Marriott Wardman Park Hotel, Washington, DC. http://www.xmlconference.org/xmlusa/ ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***Last Chance to Register for O'Reilly's Mac OS X Conference Join us for the third annual Mac OS X Conference, October 25-28, 2004, in Santa Clara, California. 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Brian is the author of O'Reilly's new "Spam Kings." http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/13/phishing.html ***Google Your Desktop ...And the rest of your file system, mailbox, and instant messenger conversations--even your browser cache. The Google Desktop is your own private little Google server. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/14/google_desktop.html ***Turning the Tables Using CSS Have you noticed web pages loading a bit faster than usual? You might thank Eric Meyer, an expert and author on the subject of cascading style sheets (CSS), a standards-based method of coding web sites. apple.com's Nancy Eaton talks to Eric about the distinct advantages of CSS and the dark days of the browser wars. 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Sam is a coauthor of"Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop." http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/10/14/storming_microsoft_edifice.html ***Seven Cool Mono Apps Edd Dumbill takes a look at seven of the cool open source programs being built on Mono. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2004/10/18/mono.html ***Save 50% on Linux/Unix System Administration Online Courses O'Reilly is offering a 50% discount on the Linux/Unix Certification Series from their O'Reilly Learning Lab. Save nearly $1000 on these online courses--and earn a University of Illinois System Administration Certificate. Every class includes compelling, hands-on content, root access to a Linux server, an online coach, and a free O'Reilly book. Use the code ORALL1 to get your 50% discount. To enroll for the Learning Lab Linux/Unix Certification Series go to: http://oreilly.useractive.com/linuxa/ --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Mac OS X Power Hound Helpful Hints, Part 1 Author Rob Griffiths has hand-picked 16 of his favorite hints and organized them into this two-part series. This week, in part one, you'll discover eight tricks to help your Mac OS X system run smoother, and see new ways to personalize your working environment. Examples include activating Expose with a multi-button mouse, saving iTunes Music Store videos and trailers, and customizing the Dock "poof." http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/excerpt/osxph_1004/index.html ***TenCon Fly-by Over the past weeks Derrick Story has been pointing out some of the new content we've added to the O'Reilly Mac OS X Conference. Here's his collection of What's New blurbs and weblogs to create a convenient fly-by of event highlights. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/10/19/tencon_flyby.html ***Extend your AirPort Network with AirPort Express Sometimes one access point just isn't enough for our wireless networks, even at home. Wei Meng Lee shows you how to extend your network with AirPort Express, and explains what's going on under the hood. http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2004/10/12/airport_express.html --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Power Hound Tips for Online Protection The Internet is a dangerous place, and sometimes the dangers come from unexpected quarters. So in addition to taking the usual online precautions, the Power Hound offers some tips about how to protect yourself against dangers you may have never even thought of, excerpted from O'Reilly's newly released Windows XP Power Hound. http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/excerpt/winxppu_ch6/index.html ***Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 What does it take to build the perfect bleeding-edge PC? First you need to pick the perfect components. From processor to power supply, Bob and Barbara Thompson have assembled their ideal mix of high-performance components that will run on both Linux and Windows. Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 1 http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/10/05/PerfectPC.html ***Building the Perfect Bleeding-Edge PC, Part 2 You've gotten all the parts--now it's time for the nitty-gritty of putting it all together. Here are step-by-step instructions for building the PC of your dreams, from Bob and Barbara Thompson, authors of "Building the Perfect PC." http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2004/10/12/PerfectPC.html --------------------- Java --------------------- ***An Introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming with the Spring Framework, Part 2 Russ Miles continues his introduction to Aspect-Oriented Programming (AOP) in Spring by delving into the around advice, which allows you to not just add to an existing method implementation, but to completely replace it. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/10/20/springaop2.html ***Create and Read J2SE 5.0 Annotations with the ASM Bytecode Toolkit Continuing his examination of the ASM bytecode-manipulation toolkit, Eugene Kuleshov shows how ASM can be used to access J2SE 5.0 attributes, even from earlier JVM versions that don't support attributes. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2004/10/20/asm.html ================================================ O'Reilly User Group Wiki ================================================ Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups across the globe are up to: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi Until next time -- --- From chsnyder Thu Oct 21 18:54:06 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:54:06 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party In-Reply-To: <41780C8B.1030006@travelersdiary.com> References: <41780C8B.1030006@travelersdiary.com> Message-ID: Rock on! The PHP guys will be at the bar if you need us. From george Thu Oct 21 18:55:49 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:55:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party In-Reply-To: References: <41780C8B.1030006@travelersdiary.com> Message-ID: <5A4423D4-23B4-11D9-9BF6-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 21, 2004, at 6:54 PM, csnyder wrote: > Rock on! > > The PHP guys will be at the bar if you need us. > It's NYC*BUG and NYPHP who are leading this effort. . . chris h, hans and me at this point. . .we have the ball rolling.. . g From bob Thu Oct 21 18:57:33 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:57:33 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97C71E84-23B4-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 21, 2004, at 14:48, G. Rosamond wrote: > holiday party New York December 15th. > > enormous event > > significant corporate backers > > either at a hotel or a bar, at least a couple of drinks free per > person. Can I RSVP now?! :) -bob From lists Thu Oct 21 23:28:01 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC Message-ID: <20041021232452.X52229@zoraida.natserv.net> Anyone can recommend an ISP for a T1 in NYC? As an alternative I am considering SHDSL. http://acedsl.com/shdsl.html From alex Thu Oct 21 23:36:12 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041021232452.X52229@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: Eh, as usual, I'll throw in my hat. ;) T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year term, 0 setup. SHDSL is useless - it is nearly as expensive as T1, but without any of SLA guarantees of a T1. MTTR (mean time to repair) on a T1 circuit is 4 hours, on DSL circuit 48 hours. -alex On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Anyone can recommend an ISP for a T1 in NYC? > > As an alternative I am considering SHDSL. > http://acedsl.com/shdsl.html > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From spork Thu Oct 21 23:55:13 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 23:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041021232452.X52229@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20041021232452.X52229@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Anyone can recommend an ISP for a T1 in NYC? We can do that: http://www.bway.net/bway/dsl/t1.html This is the Covad Telextend T1, but as Alex noted, the MTTR is 4 hours on this, but in NYC that's generally wishful thinking no matter who your provider is. :) We also offer SDSL with either an ADSL or SDSL backup option, it's a nice transparent failover solution. We also have SDSL at a slightly lower price as well. We have real humans that answer the phone and no phone queue. We also gladly welcome all sorts of "odd" requests that other ISPs don't deal with. Thanks, Charles > As an alternative I am considering SHDSL. > http://acedsl.com/shdsl.html > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From lists Fri Oct 22 07:38:10 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041022073721.G57425@zoraida.natserv.net> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > SHDSL is useless - it is nearly as expensive as T1, but without any of SLA > guarantees of a T1. The URL I posted they have an SLA. >MTTR (mean time to repair) on a T1 circuit is 4 hours, >on DSL circuit 48 hours. Good to know. How long does it usually take to get a T1 installed? From lists Fri Oct 22 07:39:10 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 07:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041022073849.M57425@zoraida.natserv.net> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year > term, 0 setup. Did you have a provider in mind? You did not post any URL. From dlavigne6 Fri Oct 22 09:23:36 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports Message-ID: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> Here's an interesting piece from the Effector mailing list (www.eff.org): ~ New Passports Will Leak Personal Data The next generation of US passports will have embedded RFIDs, and some reports suggest that the information the chips broadcast won't be encrypted. Meaning anyone with an RFID reader could passively scan you, pulling the most intimate personal data right out of your pocket. Unbelievable: Dru From alex Fri Oct 22 10:18:32 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041022073849.M57425@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > > > T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year > > term, 0 setup. > > Did you have a provider in mind? > You did not post any URL. Sorry, www.pilosoft.com ;) -- Alex Pilosov | DSL, Colocation, Hosting Services President | alex at pilosoft.com (800) 710-7031 Pilosoft, Inc. | http://www.pilosoft.com From alex Fri Oct 22 09:55:32 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041022073721.G57425@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > > > SHDSL is useless - it is nearly as expensive as T1, but without any of SLA > > guarantees of a T1. > > The URL I posted they have an SLA. Sorry - anyone can give you an SLA on anything, but it doesn't really matter. Verizon treats your expensive SHDSL lines the same way they treat your grandma's home ADSL line. > >MTTR (mean time to repair) on a T1 circuit is 4 hours, > >on DSL circuit 48 hours. > > How long does it usually take to get a T1 installed? Between 2 weeks and a month. From jbaltz Fri Oct 22 11:13:13 2004 From: jbaltz (Jerry B. Altzman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need NJ colo In-Reply-To: <20041021200944.GA29865@panix.com> References: <20041020194645.GA17462@sta> <20041021191854.GB8387@run> <20041021200944.GA29865@panix.com> Message-ID: <41792389.5010802@omnipod.com> Valen Jones wrote: > There is a "Carrier Hotel" in downtown Newark where several companies have colo space. It is an old building where they have located all the cabling in the former elevator shafts. I don't recall which companies are there, but I know that datapipe - http://www.datapipe.com - is subleasing space there. 165 Halsey St. //jbaltz -- jerry b. altzman jbaltz at omnipod.com +1 646 230 8750 Thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe. From jesse Fri Oct 22 11:22:34 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:22:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports In-Reply-To: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <32A58EEE-243E-11D9-BE1A-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> On Oct 22, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Dru wrote: > > Here's an interesting piece from the Effector mailing list > (www.eff.org): > > > ~ New Passports Will Leak Personal Data > The next generation of US passports will have embedded RFIDs, > and some reports suggest that the information the chips > broadcast won't be encrypted. Meaning anyone with an RFID > reader could passively scan you, pulling the most intimate > personal data right out of your pocket. Unbelievable: > > > Dru > Speaking of which CryptoGram is now RSS as well as the familiar monthly email. Time to pull out the collection of anti-static bags and keep the shiniest! This works with EZ-Pass, where there is most likely more wattage. From bob Fri Oct 22 12:00:22 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:00:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports In-Reply-To: <32A58EEE-243E-11D9-BE1A-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> References: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> <32A58EEE-243E-11D9-BE1A-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> Message-ID: <7A78F733-2443-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 22, 2004, at 11:22, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Dru wrote: > >> >> Here's an interesting piece from the Effector mailing list >> (www.eff.org): >> >> >> ~ New Passports Will Leak Personal Data >> The next generation of US passports will have embedded RFIDs, >> and some reports suggest that the information the chips >> broadcast won't be encrypted. Meaning anyone with an RFID >> reader could passively scan you, pulling the most intimate >> personal data right out of your pocket. Unbelievable: >> >> >> Dru >> > > Speaking of which CryptoGram is now RSS as well as the familiar > monthly email. > > > > Time to pull out the collection of anti-static bags and keep the > shiniest! This works with EZ-Pass, where there is most likely more > wattage. EZ-Pass uses an active transponder (self-powered, uses a battery) and runs on a completely different frequency than the kind of passive transponder (powered by the reader's signal) that would go into a passport. The same techniques aren't necessarily going to work. -bob From george Fri Oct 22 12:54:38 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:54:38 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Simon Lok meeting Message-ID: <0FA0493D-244B-11D9-9930-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Simon Lok is posed to speak for us November 3rd. I first met Simon a few years back after he did a NYLUG meeting on security. He attacked the common wisdom approaches to security of the day (all you need is a firewall, etc) and was thoroughly brilliant. As soon as we formed NYC*BUG, I contacted him about speaking for us. His firm's infrastructure is all OpenBSD, and his product is OpenBSD-based. If you haven't read the Forbes article about him yet, there's a link on the NYC*BUG homepage. Simon told me recently that the hard copy of the article is a bit different, but I haven't read it yet. Lots of people have played with all-in-one wonder boxes, looking to solve a variety of network needs with one box. Simon seems to be the first actually getting somewhere with it, unlike the rest of us. Anyway, this should be an interesting meeting, particularly for those looking to use *BSD for a product. g From jesse Fri Oct 22 12:59:40 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:59:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports In-Reply-To: <7A78F733-2443-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> References: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> <32A58EEE-243E-11D9-BE1A-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> <7A78F733-2443-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Oct 22, 2004, at 12:00 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2004, at 11:22, Jesse Callaway wrote: > >> >> On Oct 22, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Dru wrote: >> >>> >>> Here's an interesting piece from the Effector mailing list >>> (www.eff.org): >>> >>> >>> ~ New Passports Will Leak Personal Data >>> The next generation of US passports will have embedded RFIDs, >>> and some reports suggest that the information the chips >>> broadcast won't be encrypted. Meaning anyone with an RFID >>> reader could passively scan you, pulling the most intimate >>> personal data right out of your pocket. Unbelievable: >>> >>> >>> Dru >>> >> >> Speaking of which CryptoGram is now RSS as well as the familiar >> monthly email. >> >> >> >> Time to pull out the collection of anti-static bags and keep the >> shiniest! This works with EZ-Pass, where there is most likely more >> wattage. > > EZ-Pass uses an active transponder (self-powered, uses a battery) and > runs on a completely different frequency than the kind of passive > transponder (powered by the reader's signal) that would go into a > passport. The same techniques aren't necessarily going to work. > > -bob > > I'm certain that if you wrap your passport in foil you'll see no outside EMF inside the little rectangular space. And since you say it's a passive transponder, you shouldn't see much inside of the magic space either. It would need to be some sort of toxic ray in order for dense anti-static bag not to block it. From bob Fri Oct 22 13:18:14 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:18:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports In-Reply-To: References: <20041022092010.X544@dru.domain.org> <32A58EEE-243E-11D9-BE1A-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> <7A78F733-2443-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: <5B3E25F4-244E-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 22, 2004, at 12:59, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2004, at 12:00 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: > >> >> On Oct 22, 2004, at 11:22, Jesse Callaway wrote: >> >>> >>> On Oct 22, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Dru wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Here's an interesting piece from the Effector mailing list >>>> (www.eff.org): >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ New Passports Will Leak Personal Data >>>> The next generation of US passports will have embedded RFIDs, >>>> and some reports suggest that the information the chips >>>> broadcast won't be encrypted. Meaning anyone with an RFID >>>> reader could passively scan you, pulling the most intimate >>>> personal data right out of your pocket. Unbelievable: >>>> >>>> >>>> Dru >>>> >>> >>> Speaking of which CryptoGram is now RSS as well as the familiar >>> monthly email. >>> >>> >>> >>> Time to pull out the collection of anti-static bags and keep the >>> shiniest! This works with EZ-Pass, where there is most likely more >>> wattage. >> >> EZ-Pass uses an active transponder (self-powered, uses a battery) and >> runs on a completely different frequency than the kind of passive >> transponder (powered by the reader's signal) that would go into a >> passport. The same techniques aren't necessarily going to work. > > I'm certain that if you wrap your passport in foil you'll see no > outside EMF inside the little rectangular space. And since you say > it's a passive transponder, you shouldn't see much inside of the magic > space either. It would need to be some sort of toxic ray in order for > dense anti-static bag not to block it. Well, not knowing what frequency they're using in particular, it's hard to say. "no outside EMF" is definitely not correct for foil. It will *probably* prevent the RFID tag from being read in this case, but without knowing the specifics or without having tried it I wouldn't assert that it works or not. I've worked with passive RFID tags that can be read from tens of feet away over two years ago.. with current technology at a much closer distance it might be able to work through a thin layer of foil. -bob From alex Fri Oct 22 13:24:39 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] RFID passports In-Reply-To: <5B3E25F4-244E-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Bob Ippolito wrote: > Well, not knowing what frequency they're using in particular, it's hard > to say. "no outside EMF" is definitely not correct for foil. It will > *probably* prevent the RFID tag from being read in this case, but > without knowing the specifics or without having tried it I wouldn't > assert that it works or not. I've worked with passive RFID tags that > can be read from tens of feet away over two years ago.. with current > technology at a much closer distance it might be able to work through a > thin layer of foil. Excellent point. anti-static bag != faraday cage ;) -alex From lists Fri Oct 22 22:03:51 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> > T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year > term, 0 setup. Besides setup cost how does your service compares to http://www.bway.net/bway/dsl/t1.html From alex Fri Oct 22 22:33:31 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > > T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year > > term, 0 setup. > > Besides setup cost how does your service compares to > > http://www.bway.net/bway/dsl/t1.html Our service is a real, honest-to-god T1. No DSL or any jazz. Verizon gets lots of money for the T1 loop and they love it. I do not know whether TeleXtend T1 (what covad and bway offer) is a proper T1 or a repackaged SDSL 1.5M offering. It probably is a proper T1 - in which case, you are comparing two similar T1 carriers (us and bway). Bway are good people (and Charles is on this list), so I'm not going to be saying anything against them. ;) Compare yourself - talk to the people involved, visit our offices, and make your decision. -alex From spork Fri Oct 22 22:44:41 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 alex at pilosoft.com wrote: > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >>> T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year >>> term, 0 setup. >> >> Besides setup cost how does your service compares to >> >> http://www.bway.net/bway/dsl/t1.html > Our service is a real, honest-to-god T1. No DSL or any jazz. Verizon gets > lots of money for the T1 loop and they love it. I do not know whether > TeleXtend T1 (what covad and bway offer) is a proper T1 or a repackaged > SDSL 1.5M offering. It probably is a proper T1 - in which case, you are > comparing two similar T1 carriers (us and bway). Telextend is a T1 loop into the CO where it hits Covad's DSLAM. From that point on it rides the ATM backbone like SDSL or ADSL, but at a higher priority (or so they tell us) than SDSL. First hop latency seems to support this. The whole idea behind this service is to get the T1 repair time I suppose. > Bway are good people (and Charles is on this list), so I'm not going to be > saying anything against them. ;) Compare yourself - talk to the people > involved, visit our offices, and make your decision. We're tiny compared to Alex. He built an empire of sorts pretty quickly. :) I'd take his suggestion. Our office is "open", so feel free to stop by and talk to people in person. While of course we'd love your business, I'm very happy to see people go with ANY local business. The big boys don't know how to service small customers anymore. C > -alex > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From alex Fri Oct 22 22:44:07 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Telextend is a T1 loop into the CO where it hits Covad's DSLAM. From > that point on it rides the ATM backbone like SDSL or ADSL, but at a > higher priority (or so they tell us) than SDSL. First hop latency seems > to support this. The whole idea behind this service is to get the T1 > repair time I suppose. Makes sense. > > > Bway are good people (and Charles is on this list), so I'm not going to be > > saying anything against them. ;) Compare yourself - talk to the people > > involved, visit our offices, and make your decision. > > We're tiny compared to Alex. He built an empire of sorts pretty quickly. > :) > > I'd take his suggestion. Our office is "open", so feel free to stop by > and talk to people in person. While of course we'd love your business, > I'm very happy to see people go with ANY local business. The big boys > don't know how to service small customers anymore. > > C > > > -alex > > > > _______________________________________________ > > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > > From mikel.king Fri Oct 22 23:14:14 2004 From: mikel.king (mikel king) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:14:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> References: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> Message-ID: <4179CC86.1050207@ocsny.com> Francisco Reyes wrote: >> T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year >> term, 0 setup. > > > Besides setup cost how does your service compares to > Francisco, Where are you located because that is very important in pricing out a t1, sure you can be quoted $x for a t1, but the nasty tasting local loop charge that Verizon slaps on is based upon the distance between you and the destination. On a side note it is worth mentioning; it is extremely rare to be within the zero mile designation...but I have seen as recently as a week ago...a customer got a t1 from us for under 4 bills...but that is only because they had basically no local loop. Additionally mttr actually means mean time to respond. Verizon has a 4 hour window to respond to your call regarding a downed t1, not repair it. I can also tell you for certain a dsl line is treated no differently than a pots line. Verizon has absolutely no guarantee as to how long it will take to repair you downed circuit in either case. For instance if ConEd is digging in the street and rips out a 20-30 foot section of t3, in front of your building. I can guarantee you will not be back up within 24 hours let alone 4, no matter what you SLA with your ISP says. I've been doing this 18 years, so trust me on this one if you are that concerned about being down you'd better have a backup, and one that does not run through the same mux as your primary. You'd better be willing to pay extra for it as well. One example a from last year. The building a client of mine was in had their basement flooded, because of construct that was happening in the building next door. The big problem was that it wasn't a water main that they broke. It was the sewage main, nothing quite says how much the sh*t hit the fan that day. But after seeing the mux waste deep in sewer water...It too over 2 weeks for that building to get ALL of their circuits repaired. And do you know what Verizon gave the companies that were down. Nothing. The Construction company in the next building did finally end up paying Verizon for the damaged equipment but the 40 or so floors of offices in that building got... -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org http://www.MySql.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. +------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041022/d87cc9c7/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mikel.king.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 306 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041022/d87cc9c7/attachment.vcf From ike Sat Oct 23 00:15:20 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:15:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <4179CC86.1050207@ocsny.com> References: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> <4179CC86.1050207@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <273D3528-24AA-11D9-9733-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Mikel, Crew, On Oct 22, 2004, at 11:14 PM, mikel king wrote: > I can also tell you for certain a dsl line is treated no differently > than a pots line. NYC is a nightmare for this. I've experienced NO utility to be treated well here. Unrelated parallel- a new bar just opened across the street from me, sweet space, 2 halves. The Heating/AC for the back half of the space had an order for more electrical to be run to it, as all their juice is used up front. They put in an order for it over a year ago. 1 month ago the city re-paved the street, and directly after, the bar owner reccieved a letter stating that the city won't let ConEd rip up the street to lay electrical for another year, since they just paved the new road. Now the bar owner is having to pay his full lease/mortgage on a space which is only half lit for electrical, and nothing he can do about it except open the half that's open. I NY, and it's tough and creative inhabitants. > I can also tell you for certain a dsl line is treated no differently > than a pots line. Verizon has absolutely no guarantee as to how long > it will take to repair you downed circuit in either case Yep, I've been around the wailing and gnashing of teeth on SLA failures here too... (Part of what made me stick to app. dev. and let the pros do heavy networking). My .02?- if your app/connectivity is critical to some extent, put it all in colocation at a solid facility- the bandwidth available will be much higher and cheaper. Apples vs. Oranges I know, but hey, it's NYC. > but the 40 or so floors of offices in that building got... Mikel isn't just talking... Rocket- .ike From matt Sat Oct 23 03:27:23 2004 From: matt (Matt Juszczak) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party In-Reply-To: <97C71E84-23B4-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> References: <97C71E84-23B4-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> Message-ID: <20041023032722.L8301@neptune.atopia.net> Me too! On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Bob Ippolito wrote: > On Oct 21, 2004, at 14:48, G. Rosamond wrote: > >> holiday party New York December 15th. >> >> enormous event >> >> significant corporate backers >> >> either at a hotel or a bar, at least a couple of drinks free per person. > > Can I RSVP now?! :) > > -bob > > _______________________________________________ > talk talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > % Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > % We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > > !DSPAM:41783f00822691382610357! > From dlavigne6 Sat Oct 23 09:04:16 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) Message-ID: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for distribution. The stories themselves are available at: http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf The printable advertising flyer is in PDF and approximately 950 KB in size. Right now, I'm looking for websites interested in hosting the flyer. Til then, anyone who wants a copy and can receive an attachment that size, let me know and I'll send you a copy. Again, a big thanks to all who contributed :-) Dru From mikel.king Sat Oct 23 09:33:11 2004 From: mikel.king (mikel king) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:33:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <273D3528-24AA-11D9-9733-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <20041022220327.G59827@zoraida.natserv.net> <4179CC86.1050207@ocsny.com> <273D3528-24AA-11D9-9733-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <417A5D97.1090501@ocsny.com> Isaac Levy wrote: > Mikel, Crew, > > On Oct 22, 2004, at 11:14 PM, mikel king wrote: > >> I can also tell you for certain a dsl line is treated no differently >> than a pots line. > {SNIP} Thanks Ike, I know sometime I can go off...But I whole heartedly agree if you want SLA go COLO. -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org http://www.MySql.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. +------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mikel.king.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 306 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041023/e925c4b7/attachment.vcf From george Sat Oct 23 10:44:09 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:44:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Simon Lok on CNBC Message-ID: > http://moneycentral.msn.com/Content/CNBCTV/TV_Info/GuestList.asp From gb.nycbug.org Sat Oct 23 11:13:50 2004 From: gb.nycbug.org (George Bourozikas) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:13:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200410231113.51134.gb.nycbug.org@olivesandhoney.com> On Friday 22 October 2004 22:44, Charles Sprickman wrote: [...] > While of course we'd love > your business, I'm very happy to see people go with ANY local > business. The big boys don't know how to service small customers > anymore. > > C I'll second that. I have clients with both bway.net and pilosoft and I cannot stress enough how important fast, personal customer care is. --george From lists Sat Oct 23 11:28:41 2004 From: lists (Az) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:28:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Holiday Party References: <97C71E84-23B4-11D9-9963-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> <20041023032722.L8301@neptune.atopia.net> Message-ID: <001a01c4b916$93f4ce90$6400a8c0@home> Me 3 !!! > Me too! > > On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Bob Ippolito wrote: > > > On Oct 21, 2004, at 14:48, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > >> holiday party New York December 15th. > >> > >> enormous event > >> > >> significant corporate backers > >> > >> either at a hotel or a bar, at least a couple of drinks free per person. > > > > Can I RSVP now?! :) > > > > -bob > > > > _______________________________________________ From alex Fri Oct 22 23:48:36 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <4179CC86.1050207@ocsny.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, mikel king wrote: > Francisco Reyes wrote: > > >> T1 anywhere in Manhattan 425$, anywhere in 5 boroughs 475$/month, 1 year > >> term, 0 setup. > > > > > > Besides setup cost how does your service compares to > Where are you located because that is very important in pricing out > a t1, sure you can be quoted $x for a t1, but the nasty tasting local > loop charge that Verizon slaps on is based upon the distance between you > and the destination. On a side note it is worth mentioning; it is > extremely rare to be within the zero mile designation...but I have seen > as recently as a week ago...a customer got a t1 from us for under 4 > bills...but that is only because they had basically no local loop. Note that quote above is *including* the loop, and it *does* depend on your location. > Additionally mttr actually means mean time to respond. Verizon has a > 4 hour window to respond to your call regarding a downed t1, not repair > it. I can also tell you for certain a dsl line is treated no differently > than a pots line. Verizon has absolutely no guarantee as to how long it > will take to repair you downed circuit in either case. For instance if > ConEd is digging in the street and rips out a 20-30 foot section of t3, > in front of your building. I can guarantee you will not be back up > within 24 hours let alone 4, no matter what you SLA with your ISP says. Sorry, no. MTTR is mean time to repair. You are *guaranteed* that VZ will look at it in 4 hours [usually, VZ looks at it immediately after call to hicap repair], PLUS the mean time to *repair* it *is* 4 hours [which is what I am referring to]. -alex From alex Sat Oct 23 00:16:09 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: ISP for T1 in NYC In-Reply-To: <273D3528-24AA-11D9-9733-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > Unrelated parallel- a new bar just opened across the street from me, > sweet space, 2 halves. The Heating/AC for the back half of the space > had an order for more electrical to be run to it, as all their juice is > used up front. They put in an order for it over a year ago. 1 month > ago the city re-paved the street, and directly after, the bar owner > reccieved a letter stating that the city won't let ConEd rip up the > street to lay electrical for another year, since they just paved the new > road. Sounds like its time for cogeneration. Altogether, probably won't be as expensive (if its not in a residential neighbourhood and no noise issues. Noise issues are going to be a huge pain if any). Diesel genset + install is probably <25k$. > My .02?- if your app/connectivity is critical to some extent, put it all > in colocation at a solid facility- the bandwidth available will be much > higher and cheaper. Apples vs. Oranges I know, but hey, it's NYC. Yeap. -alex From tillman Sat Oct 23 19:11:01 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:11:01 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041023231101.GF37913@seekingfire.com> On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 09:04:16AM -0400, Dru wrote: > > At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for > distribution. There's now a copy at I've put it up at http://www.seekingfire.com/projects/bsd/40380_FLYER_BSD_SS-1.pdf. It's a really nice flyer--I'm impressed. -T -- Truth is a chameleon. - Zensunni Aphorism From dlavigne6 Sat Oct 23 20:02:42 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] MirOS Message-ID: <20041023200033.K562@dru.domain.org> Have any of you guys either heard of this project or tried it out before? http://mirbsd.bsdadvocacy.org Dru From tillman Sat Oct 23 22:20:30 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:20:30 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Anyone using Bricolage mind giving me some pointers? Message-ID: <20041024022029.GG37913@seekingfire.com> Howdy folks, I have a simple Bricolage publishing server set up, and a front end server attached to it. I'm looking for a bit of help in getting over the initial "how do I get a simple site visible when published so I can start visually figuring out how things tie together" hump. Anyone familiar with bricolage have some time to spare? -T -- "The simplest questions are the most profound. Where were you born? Where is your home? Where are you going? What are you doing? Think about these once in a while, and watch your answers change." -- Richard Bach's _Illusions_ From dave-dated-1099183064.066131 Sat Oct 23 20:38:18 2004 From: dave-dated-1099183064.066131 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:38:18 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] MirOS In-Reply-To: <20041023200033.K562@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023200033.K562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: > Have any of you guys either heard of this project or tried it out > before? > > http://mirbsd.bsdadvocacy.org I have never actually tried MirOS, but I've had semiregular communications with the project leader, Thorsten Glaser, for some time. He's no doubt a smart guy, and my understanding is that he puts together a very good system. He's also quite friendly, and easy to talk to. MirOS is still largely OpenBSD plus some things and minus some others, but its probably at the point where the system has a distinct feel (at least from reading the CVS logs) - though again I can't speak from experience. Also there's nothing wrong with that - and such a statement shouldn't diminish the work he and others have put into their system. It's a massive effort just to follow another project. Most of the work that goes into MirBSD is userland, at least at this point, though Thorsten does occasionally tweak stuff in the kernel. He also does a couple of things that I think OpenBSD should - like enabling softdep by default and skipping the fsck on bootup on a softdep enabled filesystem. Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From george Sun Oct 24 20:10:13 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:10:13 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk/Eric Meeting: Wine.com Message-ID: <3E202637-261A-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> We have collected some money to send a thank you Wine.com gift certificate to Kirk and Eric for the meeting they gave us last weekend. There were some nice contributions, but we'd like to see more people contribute, if possible. They did us an enormous favor speaking in New York City, and there's no better way to encourage them to do it again than by contributing. https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ business=ike%40structuredsystems.net&item_name=wine+McKusick- Allman&no_note=1&tax=0¤cy_code=USD&lc=US We'll cut if off tomorrow and send them the gift certificate tomorrow from Wine.com nevertheless. George From dlavigne6 Fri Oct 22 17:44:05 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories Message-ID: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for distribution. Flyer is attached. Stories themselves are available at: http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf Again, a big thanks to all who contributed :-) Dru -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 40380_FLYER_BSD_SS-1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 974862 bytes Desc: Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041022/516672a7/attachment.pdf From george Sun Oct 24 20:18:41 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:18:41 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories In-Reply-To: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> References: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <6C857C54-261B-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 22, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Dru wrote: > > At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available > for distribution. > > Flyer is attached. Stories themselves are available at: > > http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf > > Again, a big thanks to all who contributed :-) > I only count 2 NYC*BUG members. . .Not bad though. . . :-) I think this is a great tool. . .it's nice to not only talk about the seemingly mystical backends of Yahoo, Pair, Verio, etc. Dru: is there a reason why there's no introduction for this? It would have been useful. g From dlavigne6 Sun Oct 24 20:36:13 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories In-Reply-To: <6C857C54-261B-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> <6C857C54-261B-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041024202957.H562@dru.domain.org> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 22, 2004, at 5:44 PM, Dru wrote: > >> >> At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for >> distribution. >> >> Flyer is attached. Stories themselves are available at: >> >> http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf >> >> Again, a big thanks to all who contributed :-) >> > > I only count 2 NYC*BUG members. . .Not bad though. . . :-) > > I think this is a great tool. . .it's nice to not only talk about the > seemingly mystical backends of Yahoo, Pair, Verio, etc. > > Dru: is there a reason why there's no introduction for this? It would have > been useful. That would be a good question for O'Reilly. It might have been missed somewhere between the time lag when the idea was first put forth and the final rush to have them available for EuroBSDCon. The person in charge of putting everything together also changed half-way through... I'll wait til I have an answer back on the errata before I ask. I'm rooting for a second edition myself :-) It wouldn't hurt for everyone who thought this was a great idea to write a quick note to O'Reilly thanking them for the resource... Dru From lists Mon Oct 25 07:24:02 2004 From: lists (lists at genoverly.net) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:24:02 +0200 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mac OS X rootkit surfaces Message-ID: <0MKyxe-1CM2zC2vLZ-0002TC@mrelay.perfora.net> whoa.. anybody seen this in the wild? Michael By John Leyden Published Monday 25th October 2004 10:06 GMT One of the first pieces of malicious code targeting Apple's Mac OS X operating system has been discovered. The Mac OS X malware, dubbed Opener, is a rootkit for Mac OS X machines that contains a variety of destructive functionality including a keylogger and backdoor components. http://www.theregister.com/2004/10/25/mac_rootkit_opener/ From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 09:19:59 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD trademark Message-ID: <20041025090951.G690@dru.domain.org> I was googling for "BSD Success Stories" and the 10th hit was this: http://www.bsdsoftlink.com/success/successstories.htm Surprised, I looked up the BSD trademark: http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm BSD is result 14; BSD Softlink is results 9-12. (on a side note, I hadn't realized UUnet had taken over the registration) Is this okay? If not, who do I talk to? Dru From tux Mon Oct 25 09:57:50 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:57:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD trademark References: <20041025090951.G690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <002e01c4ba9a$9f798e10$0500a8c0@apollo> : Is this okay? If not, who do I talk to? For BSD (trademark holder): Correspondent FRACINE M. HANSON (Attorney of record) FRACINE M. HANSON COOLEY GODWARD LLP ONE MARITIME PLAZA, 20TH FLOOR SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94111-3580 From jschauma Mon Oct 25 10:32:49 2004 From: jschauma (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:32:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD trademark In-Reply-To: <20041025090951.G690@dru.domain.org> References: <20041025090951.G690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041025143249.GB25381@netmeister.org> Dru wrote: > > I was googling for "BSD Success Stories" and the 10th hit was this: > > http://www.bsdsoftlink.com/success/successstories.htm > > Surprised, I looked up the BSD trademark: > > http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm > > BSD is result 14; BSD Softlink is results 9-12. (on a side note, I hadn't > realized UUnet had taken over the registration) > > Is this okay? If not, who do I talk to? I don't see why they would not be ok. The term ``Berkeley Software Distribution'' first appeared, I believe, around 1977 or so. It was then shortened to ``XXBSD'' (with XX being a number). Any subsequent ``products'' so to speak have always been ``SomethingBSD'', not ``BSD''. The BSD you cite has a last listed owner of WindRiver Systems, which should sound familiar. I think they'd have a valid claim to register the trademark ``BSD'' based on their first commercial use in 1991, two years before NetBSD was first released (which was the first of the three main BSDs). BSD Softlink registered ``BSD Softlink'' (and others), which also doesn't seem to conflict or confuse other trademarks. But then again, what the hell do I know about these things... ;-) -Jan -- chown -R us:enemy your_base -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041025/18a115ba/attachment.bin From jfreeman Mon Oct 25 11:40:07 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:40:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? Message-ID: We're trying to debug some issues we're having getting bakBone's NetVault backup software on our FreeBSD 4.10 box... Apparently we're getting these in our /var/log/messages : Oct 14 14:13:00 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '44' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Oct 19 14:16:16 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '48' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Oct 19 15:06:32 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '50' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Oct 19 15:33:48 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '51' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Oct 20 11:07:35 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '52' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t3l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Oct 20 13:06:19 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '53' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (SONY SDX-700C): had channel error' Oct 20 13:26:22 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' Job: '53' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t3l0 (HP C1533A): had channel error' Our tech. at Spectralogic wanted us to run ioscan but I can't find it.. I don't think it's installed... It may not even be a FreeBSD app.. There may be some other app. In BSD that does what ioscan does. Any advice/suggestions appreciated. J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From chsnyder Mon Oct 25 11:21:32 2004 From: chsnyder (csnyder) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:21:32 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Adaptive firewalling in FreeBSD -- how can? Message-ID: I'm seeing a lot of failed logins for random users in the auth.log lately -- something trying out a list of 10-20 username/password combinations over ssh. Is there a simple way to dynamically block hosts with too many (more than six) failed ssh logins in a row? chris. From george Mon Oct 25 11:55:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:55:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Adaptive firewalling in FreeBSD -- how can? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4B5304-269E-11D9-9F4D-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 25, 2004, at 11:21 AM, csnyder wrote: > I'm seeing a lot of failed logins for random users in the auth.log > lately -- something trying out a list of 10-20 username/password > combinations over ssh. > > Is there a simple way to dynamically block hosts with too many (more > than six) failed ssh logins in a row? > Either you can play with MaxStartups or maybe script it . . .into a firewall ruleset like with pf. Have you thought of just using key-based authentication? It would make attempts useless. g From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 12:04:06 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041025115414.R690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > We're trying to debug some issues we're having getting bakBone's NetVault > backup software on our FreeBSD 4.10 box... > > Apparently we're getting these in our /var/log/messages > > : > > Oct 14 14:13:00 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '44' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > Oct 19 14:16:16 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '48' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > Oct 19 15:06:32 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '50' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > Oct 19 15:33:48 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '51' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > Oct 20 11:07:35 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '52' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t3l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > Oct 20 13:06:19 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '53' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (SONY SDX-700C): had > channel error' > Oct 20 13:26:22 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '53' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t3l0 (HP C1533A): had channel > error' > > > Our tech. at Spectralogic wanted us to run ioscan but I can't find it.. I > don't think it's installed... > > It may not even be a FreeBSD app.. There may be some other app. In BSD that > does what ioscan does. > > Any advice/suggestions appreciated. Hmm, ioscan is an HP/UX tool: http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/usail/man/hpux/ioscan.1.html I've gotten used to "kenv" on 5.x, but it doesn't show irq info on 4.x... If it's just a matter of finding out which hardware is using what IRQ, I usually just: dmesg |grep irq HTH, Dru From tillman Mon Oct 25 12:07:29 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:07:29 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories In-Reply-To: <20041024202957.H562@dru.domain.org> References: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> <6C857C54-261B-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041024202957.H562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041025160729.GQ37913@seekingfire.com> On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 08:36:13PM -0400, Dru wrote: > It wouldn't hurt for everyone who thought this was a great idea to write a > quick note to O'Reilly thanking them for the resource... Is there an address that would be particularly effective to reach? -T -- When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of scripture are not enough. When you have realized understanding, even one word is too much. Fen-Yang From dave-dated-1099325530.9fe9e1 Mon Oct 25 12:12:46 2004 From: dave-dated-1099325530.9fe9e1 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:12:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? In-Reply-To: <20041025115414.R690@dru.domain.org> References: <20041025115414.R690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: > If it's just a matter of finding out which hardware is using what IRQ, > I usually just: > > dmesg |grep irq There's also scanpci on OpenBSD, which may be of some use: SCANPCI(1) SCANPCI(1) NAME scanpci - scan/probe PCI buses SYNOPSIS scanpci [-v12OfV] DESCRIPTION Scanpci is a utility that can be used to scan PCI buses and report information about the configuration space set? tings for each PCI device. On most platforms, scanpci can only be run by the root user. And pcitweak, likewise. Check the online man pages for more details. Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From jfreeman Mon Oct 25 12:15:37 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:15:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? In-Reply-To: <20041025161044.GA28263@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: Well, in truth.. We have yet to get this all to work properly... My sysads who are not deeply freebsd aware are itching to reformat the drives and install windows server 2003.... Thanks for the info! J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > From: Harold Sinclair > Organization: hastek > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:10:44 -0400 > To: "Joshua S. Freeman" > Cc: "NYCBUG discussion list > Subject: Re: Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? > > Joshua S. Freeman: >> Oct 14 14:13:00 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' >> Job: '44' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel >> error' >> Oct 19 14:16:16 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' >> Job: '48' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel >> error' >> Oct 19 15:06:32 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > > You have scsi issues. > > Try syssat and iostat on freebsd. These are good tools of course. > Judging from the error message you have a hardware problem. > Especially if it wasn't doing this before:) > > > Harold > > > > From nycbug Mon Oct 25 12:15:59 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:15:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Where does ioscan live on 4.10 stable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041025161559.GA28335@florian.hastek.net> Joshua S. Freeman: > Oct 14 14:13:00 pawpaw NetVault[33485]: Client: 'pawpawnv' Class: 'Media' > Job: '44' Warnlevel: 'Error' Msg: 'pawpawnv b0t2l0 (HP C1533A): had channel You probably have scsi hardware issues - especially if this wasn't happening before. Move the tape drive to a free channel see if it persists. Try iostat and systat on FreeBSD - these are good tools. Once in systat do :vmstat From jfreeman Mon Oct 25 13:24:37 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:24:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More questions about our spectralogic box. Message-ID: The tech at spectralogic has given me this command: time dd if=/dev/zero of =/dev/rmt/0cb bs=256K count=1000 He wants me to run this command.. Now, as far as I know , our two tape drives in the spectralogic are at /dev/sa0 and /dev/sa1 Which BSD command will show me the devices on the scsi bus? I need to scan the scsi bus and see the devices there. I knew what this was several weeks ago when I was struggling with bacula.. But I haven't used it since then and have forgotten it. Please help! Thanks! J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From tillman Mon Oct 25 13:43:25 2004 From: tillman (Tillman Hodgson) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:43:25 -0600 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More questions about our spectralogic box. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041025174325.GT37913@seekingfire.com> On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 01:24:37PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > Which BSD command will show me the devices on the scsi bus? I need to scan > the scsi bus and see the devices there. I knew what this was several weeks > ago when I was struggling with bacula.. But I haven't used it since then and > have forgotten it. `camcontrol` or `scsicontrol`, depending on your flavour. "devlist" is the argument that you're probably most interested in. FreeBSD example: [root at athena ~]# camcontrol devlist -v scbus0 on ahc0 bus 0: at scbus0 target 4 lun 0 (pass0,da0) at scbus0 target 5 lun 0 (pass1,da1) at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 (pass2,da2) < > at scbus0 target -1 lun -1 () scbus1 on ahc1 bus 0: at scbus1 target 1 lun 0 (pass3,cd0) at scbus1 target 2 lun 0 (pass4,sa0) at scbus1 target 3 lun 0 (pass5,sa1) at scbus1 target 10 lun 0 (pass6,da3) at scbus1 target 11 lun 0 (pass7,da4) < > at scbus1 target -1 lun -1 () scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0: < > at scbus-1 target -1 lun -1 (xpt0) For further details on a SCSI target, try the inquiry command: [root at athena ~]# camcontrol inquiry sa0 pass4: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device pass4: Serial Number DR016BW pass4: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 15) -T -- If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, you have learned how to live. Lin Yu-T'ang From jfreeman Mon Oct 25 14:27:09 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:27:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] More questions about our spectralogic box. In-Reply-To: <20041025174325.GT37913@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: Thanks Much Tillman... Indeed.. Camcontrol was what I was looking for! Thanks! J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > From: Tillman Hodgson > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:43:25 -0600 > To: "NYCBUG discussion list > Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] More questions about our spectralogic box. > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 01:24:37PM -0400, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: >> Which BSD command will show me the devices on the scsi bus? I need to scan >> the scsi bus and see the devices there. I knew what this was several weeks >> ago when I was struggling with bacula.. But I haven't used it since then and >> have forgotten it. > > `camcontrol` or `scsicontrol`, depending on your flavour. "devlist" is > the argument that you're probably most interested in. FreeBSD example: > > [root at athena ~]# camcontrol devlist -v > scbus0 on ahc0 bus 0: > at scbus0 target 4 lun 0 (pass0,da0) > at scbus0 target 5 lun 0 (pass1,da1) > at scbus0 target 6 lun 0 (pass2,da2) > < > at scbus0 target -1 lun -1 () > scbus1 on ahc1 bus 0: > at scbus1 target 1 lun 0 (pass3,cd0) > at scbus1 target 2 lun 0 (pass4,sa0) > at scbus1 target 3 lun 0 (pass5,sa1) > at scbus1 target 10 lun 0 (pass6,da3) > at scbus1 target 11 lun 0 (pass7,da4) > < > at scbus1 target -1 lun -1 () > scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0: > < > at scbus-1 target -1 lun -1 (xpt0) > > For further details on a SCSI target, try the inquiry command: > > [root at athena ~]# camcontrol inquiry sa0 > pass4: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 > device > pass4: Serial Number DR016BW > pass4: 5.000MB/s transfers (5.000MHz, offset 15) > > -T > > > -- > If you can spend a perfectly useless afternoon in a perfectly useless manner, > you have learned how to live. > Lin Yu-T'ang > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month From ike Mon Oct 25 14:51:25 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:51:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: Hi Dru, On Oct 23, 2004, at 9:04 AM, Dru wrote: > The printable advertising flyer is in PDF and approximately 950 KB in > size. Right now, I'm looking for websites interested in hosting the > flyer. Til then, anyone who wants a copy and can receive an attachment > that size, let me know and I'll send you a copy. Woo-hoo! I'll gladly take a printable copy for distribution here... email should do fine with a 950k attachment. > > Again, a big thanks to all who contributed :-) Thanks for putting it together! This is awesome. Rocket, .ike From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 15:00:53 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories In-Reply-To: <20041025160729.GQ37913@seekingfire.com> References: <20041022174042.Y544@dru.domain.org> <6C857C54-261B-11D9-A7AF-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041024202957.H562@dru.domain.org> <20041025160729.GQ37913@seekingfire.com> Message-ID: <20041025145546.N690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Tillman Hodgson wrote: > On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 08:36:13PM -0400, Dru wrote: >> It wouldn't hurt for everyone who thought this was a great idea to write a >> quick note to O'Reilly thanking them for the resource... > > Is there an address that would be particularly effective to reach? Hmmm. I guess until I'm told otherwise nuts at oreilly.com might be a good place to start. If you want a more direct approach, there's a "Contact Us" list at the bottom of http://www.onlamp.com Dru From lists Mon Oct 25 15:51:39 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:51:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:51:25 -0400 Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Dru, > > On Oct 23, 2004, at 9:04 AM, Dru wrote: > > > The printable advertising flyer is in PDF and approximately 950 KB > > in size. Right now, I'm looking for websites interested in hosting > > the flyer. Til then, anyone who wants a copy and can receive an > > attachment that size, let me know and I'll send you a copy. > Is that the flyer on our website? http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Library -- --- From ike Mon Oct 25 15:57:20 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:57:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <1452C097-26C0-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 25, 2004, at 3:51 PM, michael wrote: > > Is that the flyer on our website? > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Library Doh- that's the one. Rocket- .ike From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 16:08:49 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <20041025160841.F690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, michael wrote: > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:51:25 -0400 > Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Hi Dru, >> >> On Oct 23, 2004, at 9:04 AM, Dru wrote: >> >>> The printable advertising flyer is in PDF and approximately 950 KB >>> in size. Right now, I'm looking for websites interested in hosting >>> the flyer. Til then, anyone who wants a copy and can receive an >>> attachment that size, let me know and I'll send you a copy. >> > > Is that the flyer on our website? > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Library Yes. Dru From bob Mon Oct 25 16:05:15 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:05:15 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <20041025155139.575aeb25@delinux.abwatley.com> Message-ID: <2FFCA23C-26C1-11D9-959B-000A95BA5446@redivi.com> On Oct 25, 2004, at 15:51, michael wrote: > On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:51:25 -0400 > Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Hi Dru, >> >> On Oct 23, 2004, at 9:04 AM, Dru wrote: >> >>> The printable advertising flyer is in PDF and approximately 950 KB >>> in size. Right now, I'm looking for websites interested in hosting >>> the flyer. Til then, anyone who wants a copy and can receive an >>> attachment that size, let me know and I'll send you a copy. >> > > Is that the flyer on our website? > http://nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=Library apparently it's a FLIER on the website ;) -bob From ike Mon Oct 25 16:13:22 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:13:22 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Mac OS X rootkit surfaces In-Reply-To: <0MKyxe-1CM2zC2vLZ-0002TC@mrelay.perfora.net> References: <0MKyxe-1CM2zC2vLZ-0002TC@mrelay.perfora.net> Message-ID: <521D9FAE-26C2-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi Michael, On Oct 25, 2004, at 7:24 AM, wrote: > whoa.. anybody seen this in the wild? Not seen this thing- but seen plenty of other nasties. Trust, trust trust- always the only way in... Rocket- .ike > Michael > > By John Leyden > Published Monday 25th October 2004 10:06 GMT > > One of the first pieces of malicious code targeting Apple's Mac OS X > operating system has been discovered. The Mac OS X malware, dubbed > Opener, is a rootkit for Mac OS X machines that contains a variety of > destructive functionality including a keylogger and backdoor > components. > > http://www.theregister.com/2004/10/25/mac_rootkit_opener/ From sunny-ml Mon Oct 25 16:15:02 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:15:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Saturday 23 October 2004 09:04, Dru wrote: > At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for > distribution. > > The stories themselves are available at: > > http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf why not bsd.oreilly.com ?? these little things count! it creates a shift in mentality and such. (and its only a few more lines in the vhost.conf file, heh) Sunny Dubey From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 16:28:15 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041025162713.Q690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Saturday 23 October 2004 09:04, Dru wrote: >> At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for >> distribution. >> >> The stories themselves are available at: >> >> http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf > > why not bsd.oreilly.com ?? > > these little things count! it creates a shift in mentality and such. (and its > only a few more lines in the vhost.conf file, heh) Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) I've already requested that a link be placed on www.onlamp.com/bsd. Dru From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 16:29:22 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Saturday 23 October 2004 09:04, Dru wrote: >> At long last! The stories have been formatted and a flyer is available for >> distribution. >> >> The stories themselves are available at: >> >> http://linux.oreilly.com/news/bsd_ss.pdf > > why not bsd.oreilly.com ?? > > these little things count! it creates a shift in mentality and such. (and its > only a few more lines in the vhost.conf file, heh) Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) I've already requested that a link be placed on www.onlamp.com/bsd. Dru From sunny-ml Mon Oct 25 17:41:14 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:41:14 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Monday 25 October 2004 16:29, Dru wrote: > Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) > heh, what would I say ? "this is nameless hax0r from NYC, please add bsd.o.com! kthx bye" haha that being said I think its really important that people eat their own dog food. If was a clueless twit, and I saw "http://linux.o.com/BSD_Advocate.pdf" I'd probably think to myself "Linux is BSD's older brother". I also think "marketing from the server room" is doomed to fail. For every example of corporate BSD usage you can show me, I can easily show you examples of corporate NT usage. Sure people like you and I will be able to distinguish fact from FUD, but the PHB reading that PDF can't. I don't mean to offend when I say this, but such written material IMO is not going to help the BSD cause. IMHO how available an OS to users at *home* is what is going to help it in the corporate sector/adoption. People took the concepts they learned of Windows 95/98 at home, and took it to the work place with Windows NT4/2000. Everyone downloaded some copy of Slackware/Redhat and eventually had most ISPs running on it. etc etc etc What BSD really needs is a whole bunch of BSD guys to show up at random computing conferences, and to simply boot BSD on their laptops, with their BSD wallpaper. That IMO is extremely powerful and priceless advertising. People are going to look at these "cool BSD guys" and they are going to want to do the same thing .... at home! Once they get comfy with it at home, they start bringing it to the work place, and loading it up on machines their manager isn't going to care about. The rest is history. Of course I'm over-simplifying this, but hopefully you all get the idea. Sunny Dubey From steve.rieger Mon Oct 25 17:51:01 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:51:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories In-Reply-To: <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: Hi all, am jumping in a bit late on this one I just finished and won a major battle against MS, the corp I work at was loking for a mail solution with calendering, and project management. After much talk and recruiting the development team, we are going with freebsd, for everything, web, mail, groupware, (open-xchange) ldap, pgsql, etc..... So for all of those that think that bsd is dead I say not, I preffer it over linux, and is as dear to me as solaris. That's all > On Monday 25 October 2004 16:29, Dru wrote: > >> Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) >> > > heh, what would I say ? > > "this is nameless hax0r from NYC, please add bsd.o.com! > kthx > bye" > > haha > > that being said > > I think its really important that people eat their own dog food. If was a > clueless twit, and I saw "http://linux.o.com/BSD_Advocate.pdf" I'd probably > think to myself "Linux is BSD's older brother". > > I also think "marketing from the server room" is doomed to fail. For every > example of corporate BSD usage you can show me, I can easily show you > examples of corporate NT usage. Sure people like you and I will be able to > distinguish fact from FUD, but the PHB reading that PDF can't. > > I don't mean to offend when I say this, but such written material IMO is not > going to help the BSD cause. > > IMHO how available an OS to users at *home* is what is going to help it in the > corporate sector/adoption. People took the concepts they learned of Windows > 95/98 at home, and took it to the work place with Windows NT4/2000. Everyone > downloaded some copy of Slackware/Redhat and eventually had most ISPs running > on it. etc etc etc > > What BSD really needs is a whole bunch of BSD guys to show up at random > computing conferences, and to simply boot BSD on their laptops, with their > BSD wallpaper. That IMO is extremely powerful and priceless advertising. > People are going to look at these "cool BSD guys" and they are going to want > to do the same thing .... at home! Once they get comfy with it at home, they > start bringing it to the work place, and loading it up on machines their > manager isn't going to care about. The rest is history. > > Of course I'm over-simplifying this, but hopefully you all get the idea. > > Sunny Dubey > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From JBrown Mon Oct 25 18:28:00 2004 From: JBrown (Brown, James Jim) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:28:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org To: talk at lists.nycbug.org Sent: 10/25/04 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) On Monday 25 October 2004 16:29, Dru wrote: > Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) > heh, what would I say ? "this is nameless hax0r from NYC, please add bsd.o.com! kthx bye" haha that being said I think its really important that people eat their own dog food. If was a clueless twit, and I saw "http://linux.o.com/BSD_Advocate.pdf" I'd probably think to myself "Linux is BSD's older brother". I also think "marketing from the server room" is doomed to fail. For every example of corporate BSD usage you can show me, I can easily show you examples of corporate NT usage. Sure people like you and I will be able to distinguish fact from FUD, but the PHB reading that PDF can't. I don't mean to offend when I say this, but such written material IMO is not going to help the BSD cause. IMHO how available an OS to users at *home* is what is going to help it in the corporate sector/adoption. People took the concepts they learned of Windows 95/98 at home, and took it to the work place with Windows NT4/2000. Everyone downloaded some copy of Slackware/Redhat and eventually had most ISPs running on it. etc etc etc What BSD really needs is a whole bunch of BSD guys to show up at random computing conferences, and to simply boot BSD on their laptops, with their BSD wallpaper. That IMO is extremely powerful and priceless advertising. People are going to look at these "cool BSD guys" and they are going to want to do the same thing .... at home! Once they get comfy with it at home, they start bringing it to the work place, and loading it up on machines their manager isn't going to care about. The rest is history. Of course I'm over-simplifying this, but hopefully you all get the idea. Sunny Dubey Fortunately I'm one of those people who already runs BSD on my laptop and have the nifty KDE desktop. I like this approach and I think it's fun to meet people and talk about BSD stuff. But we really need to find ways to get the word out to large corporations regarding BSD. They are the ones that are going to spend the big $$$. I've often speculated that if BSD was not caught in lawsuit hell during the time IBM was evaluating Linux (sometime during 1997-1999) I believe they would have gone with BSD instead. The licensing, the maturity of the code base and the wide user base were all as good as, or better than Linux at that time. Here's a case in point- IBM supports Linux on their HS20 BladeCenters. If they at least supported a BSD installation, there would be more interest from corporations wary of Windows DLL hell and not impressed with Linux either, especially RH Advanced Server. There *should* be another choice. But right now there isn't because of the lack of IBM support. And companies can't put their money into BSD if there isn't at least a supported option. HP is the same way. These are a very strong platform for BSD and they *can* be made to: 1. work well; and 2. be supported by IBM/HP. If this could be done- I think more interest and committment would roll our way. Best Regards, Jim B. Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ThruPoint, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041025/9eaaeb97/attachment.html From jfreeman Mon Oct 25 18:32:34 2004 From: jfreeman (Joshua S. Freeman) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:32:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie question Message-ID: Currently, when my freebsd 4.10 stable server boots up, both /etc/bacula/bacula start runs and /usr/netvault/bin/nvpmgr startup runs automagically. I need, actually, for now, while testing the drives in my library, to set things so NEITHER of them start at startup. How does one control these things in FreeBSD? TIA, J. -- COMPUTER HELPDESK (when inside the Garden): http://helpdesk.nybg.org/ Joshua S. Freeman Dir. of Information Technology New York Botanical Garden v: 718 817 8937 m: 347 392 2560 This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual/group of individuals and a specific purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not an intended recipient, you should delete this message. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. From steve Mon Oct 25 19:47:49 2004 From: steve (Steve) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 19:47:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20041025234753.OHPM29353.out011.verizon.net@STACY> I would check to see if they are enabled in /etc/rc.conf In place of yes stats no -- Steve Rieger -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org] On Behalf Of Joshua S. Freeman Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 6:33 PM To: NYCBUG discussion list References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <9970AB07-26E2-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi Sunny, All, On Oct 25, 2004, at 5:41 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Monday 25 October 2004 16:29, Dru wrote: > >> Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) >> > > heh, what would I say ? > > "this is nameless hax0r from NYC, please add bsd.o.com! > kthx > bye" Yes- I'm gonna do it. > > haha > > that being said > > I think its really important that people eat their own dog food. If > was a > clueless twit, and I saw "http://linux.o.com/BSD_Advocate.pdf" I'd > probably > think to myself "Linux is BSD's older brother". Yep. > > I also think "marketing from the server room" is doomed to fail. For > every > example of corporate BSD usage you can show me, I can easily show you > examples of corporate NT usage. Sure people like you and I will be > able to > distinguish fact from FUD, but the PHB reading that PDF can't. > > I don't mean to offend when I say this, but such written material IMO > is not > going to help the BSD cause. I have to strongly disagree here, everything is useful to 'the BSD cause'. I'd also state that it's stuff like this that rocketed Linux into the enterprise computing enviornments in the late 90's, (i.e. how many glossy Linux white-papers are filling the landfills post dot-bomb?) > > IMHO how available an OS to users at *home* is what is going to help > it in the > corporate sector/adoption. People took the concepts they learned of > Windows > 95/98 at home, and took it to the work place with Windows NT4/2000. > Everyone > downloaded some copy of Slackware/Redhat and eventually had most ISPs > running > on it. etc etc etc > > What BSD really needs is a whole bunch of BSD guys to show up at random > computing conferences, and to simply boot BSD on their laptops, with > their > BSD wallpaper. This is something I've seen a LOT of actually, Macs all over, and BSD laptops in the hands of major heavys at a lot of conferences. The little Daemon shows up where it counts. > That IMO is extremely powerful and priceless advertising. > People are going to look at these "cool BSD guys" and they are going > to want > to do the same thing .... at home! Once they get comfy with it at > home, they > start bringing it to the work place, and loading it up on machines > their > manager isn't going to care about. The rest is history. > > Of course I'm over-simplifying this, but hopefully you all get the > idea. I see your point, and think it's valuable Sunny, but I don't believe it invalidates things like this flyer. Today for instance, I distributed the PDF to a client who got to see some statements about BSD which they can apply to their own business practices, (they run BSD, and have for several years now, at my reccommendation). They have had so few problems with BSD over the years, that in their case, they really appreciated hearing something that re-enforced how they work. Sure, folks like us aren't swayed by stuff like this, but we're not who it's for IMO. This, to me, is like putting on a clean pressed shirt to go out into the world. It's silly, and ultimately eqates to wearing a clean pressed shirt... It says nothing and everything, all at once. :) Rockin' my .02?- .ike From ike Mon Oct 25 20:16:00 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:16:00 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Newbie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3776AAB6-26E4-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi Joshua, All, On Oct 25, 2004, at 6:32 PM, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > How does one control these things in FreeBSD? Files that are: /etc/rc* check the man page for 'rc', it gives a clear and detailed rundown of the daemon startup process. It's all really quite simple, the system executes various system daemons which are configured in the rc.conf, and other scripts like rc.firewall load rulesets into ipfw, etc... Others like rc.local, simply contain a number of shell commands to execute, (which can do things like start daemons etc...). Note that rc.shutdown is in there too, it's for stuff that you want to run before the system is shut down, (databases, etc...) Kindof a short answer, but that's really all there is to it. Rocket- .ike From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 20:25:03 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251615.02578.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041025162917.U690@dru.domain.org> <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <20041025201610.E690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Monday 25 October 2004 16:29, Dru wrote: > >> Wanna email O'Reilly and ask? ;-) >> > > heh, what would I say ? > > "this is nameless hax0r from NYC, please add bsd.o.com! > kthx > bye" Either that or something along the lines of "I'm a regular reader and was curious as to why BSD Success Stories is at linux.oreilly.com and not bsd.oreilly.com". You know, the few sentences you sent in your original email were just fine :-) Never underestimate the cumulative effect of the nameless individual... > haha > > that being said > > I think its really important that people eat their own dog food. If was a > clueless twit, and I saw "http://linux.o.com/BSD_Advocate.pdf" I'd probably > think to myself "Linux is BSD's older brother". > > I also think "marketing from the server room" is doomed to fail. For every > example of corporate BSD usage you can show me, I can easily show you > examples of corporate NT usage. Sure people like you and I will be able to > distinguish fact from FUD, but the PHB reading that PDF can't. > > I don't mean to offend when I say this, but such written material IMO is not > going to help the BSD cause. I'm not offended. Written material is just one thing out of a 100 different things that can be and should be done. Even the pieces of the puzzle that don't particularly appeal to me advocacy-wise still have their place in the bigger picture. > IMHO how available an OS to users at *home* is what is going to help it in the > corporate sector/adoption. People took the concepts they learned of Windows > 95/98 at home, and took it to the work place with Windows NT4/2000. Everyone > downloaded some copy of Slackware/Redhat and eventually had most ISPs running > on it. etc etc etc > > What BSD really needs is a whole bunch of BSD guys to show up at random > computing conferences, and to simply boot BSD on their laptops, with their > BSD wallpaper. That IMO is extremely powerful and priceless advertising. > People are going to look at these "cool BSD guys" and they are going to want > to do the same thing .... at home! Once they get comfy with it at home, they > start bringing it to the work place, and loading it up on machines their > manager isn't going to care about. The rest is history. > > Of course I'm over-simplifying this, but hopefully you all get the idea. I agree completely. Even better, get in the habit of carrying around give-away CDs (Freesbie, OpenCD, etc.) I don't know how many times I've brought up Open Source at the local Futureshop (insert local PC shop name here) and people were fascinated by the Live CD idea (you mean I can try it out without losing my data???) Even the ones who aren't interested in the big scary Unix are more than happy to try out Firefox, OpenOffice, and Gimp. Heck, they're legally free and not virus laden :-) Dru From dlavigne6 Mon Oct 25 20:39:28 2004 From: dlavigne6 (Dru) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041025202900.B690@dru.domain.org> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Brown, James (Jim) wrote: > Here's a case in point- IBM supports Linux on their HS20 BladeCenters. > If they at least supported a BSD installation, there would be > more interest from corporations wary of Windows DLL hell and not > impressed with Linux either, especially RH Advanced Server. > > There *should* be another choice. But right now there isn't because > of the lack of IBM support. And companies can't put their money into > BSD if there isn't at least a supported option. > > HP is the same way. > > These are a very strong platform for BSD and they *can* be made to: > 1. work well; and 2. be supported by IBM/HP. > > If this could be done- I think more interest and committment would > roll our way. Call me an organization freak, but when I see a need I have a tremendous urge to: -find out the extent of that need by gathering as many facts as I can -create awareness of the existence of that need -organize a campaign to get that need filled What can I say? I'm hyped up for EuroBSDCon as my talk (I hope) will at least get people thinking about the frameworks that are needed but missing. In the past year, I've seen a lot of things that need to be done, a lot of people who would be willing to go up to bat and give it a try, and a dismaying lack of organization. Dru From nycbug Mon Oct 25 21:43:07 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:43:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Newbie question In-Reply-To: <3776AAB6-26E4-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <3776AAB6-26E4-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041026014307.GA30606@florian.hastek.net> Heya, Isaac Levy: > Hi Joshua, All, > On Oct 25, 2004, at 6:32 PM, Joshua S. Freeman wrote: > >How does one control these things in FreeBSD? > > Files that are: > /etc/rc* > > check the man page for 'rc', it gives a clear and detailed rundown of > the daemon startup process. > > It's all really quite simple, the system executes various system > daemons which are configured in the rc.conf, and other scripts like > rc.firewall load rulesets into ipfw, etc... Others like rc.local, > simply contain a number of shell commands to execute, (which can do > things like start daemons etc...). > > Note that rc.shutdown is in there too, it's for stuff that you want to > run before the system is shut down, (databases, etc...) Let's not forget our friends in /usr/local/etc/rc.d ! From george Mon Oct 25 21:45:16 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:45:16 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Schneier's doghouse Message-ID: This is from the security guru Bruce Schneier. . .his Doghouse of the month refers to various security-related idiocies he finds. . . . Doghouse: Merced County Merced County is in California, and they explained why they chose electronic voting machines Election Systems & Software (ES&S). There are a bunch of vague selection criteria, but this one is quite explicit: "Uses 1,064 bit encryption, not 128 which is less secure." I am simply too appalled to comment further. http://web.co.merced.ca.us/elections/touchvote.html (although i don't see this comment on that page) g From ahpook Mon Oct 25 23:01:29 2004 From: ahpook (Ah Pook) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:01:29 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20041025201610.E690@dru.domain.org> References: <20041023090215.N562@dru.domain.org> <200410251741.14369.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <20041025201610.E690@dru.domain.org> Message-ID: <200410252301.29373.ahpook@optonline.net> On Monday 25 October 2004 08:25 pm, Dru wrote: > I agree completely. Even better, get in the habit of carrying around > give-away CDs (Freesbie, OpenCD, etc.) People love free stuff. CDs are nice because not everybody has the time or inclination to download them, even if they know where to find them. I'll tell you though, I've never seen so many willing listeners as when you start handing out stickers. OBSD's greatest trick - it works every time. From trish Tue Oct 26 09:53:44 2004 From: trish (Trish Lynch) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... Message-ID: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> my company is looking at a place to host about 5 email delivery (POP/IMAP) boxes for a small sister company (they don't want it here for other reasons) Anyone have any reputable small hosting providers that woudn't mind? -Trish -- Trish Lynch trish at bsdunix.net Ecartis Core Team trish at listmistress.org EFNet IRC Operator/SysAdmin @ irc.dkom.at AilleCat at EFNet Key fingerprint = 781D 2B47 AA4B FC88 B919 0CD6 26B2 1D62 6FC1 FF16 From george Tue Oct 26 10:00:27 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:00:27 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <63B0FA76-2757-11D9-8250-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 26, 2004, at 9:53 AM, Trish Lynch wrote: > my company is looking at a place to host about 5 email delivery > (POP/IMAP) > boxes for a small sister company (they don't want it here for other > reasons) > > Anyone have any reputable small hosting providers that woudn't mind? > Strongly recommend Bruno and Co. ..who's on the list. www.bizintegrators.com OBSD shop. g From ike Tue Oct 26 10:05:23 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:05:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <63B0FA76-2757-11D9-8250-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> <63B0FA76-2757-11D9-8250-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <1492124E-2758-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 26, 2004, at 10:00 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > Strongly recommend Bruno and Co. ..who's on the list. > > www.bizintegrators.com > > OBSD shop. > > g Yep- second that here, I have an account with them- they do a totally great job in the bitstorm that now is email... Rocket- .ike From dave-dated-1099404520.c38136 Tue Oct 26 10:09:17 2004 From: dave-dated-1099404520.c38136 (Dave Steinberg) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:09:17 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <9FAF26C2-2758-11D9-990F-0030656E7E7A@redterror.net> > my company is looking at a place to host about 5 email delivery > (POP/IMAP) > boxes for a small sister company (they don't want it here for other > reasons) > > Anyone have any reputable small hosting providers that woudn't mind? Yeah actually, I run GeekISP (http://www.geekisp.com/) a small OpenBSD-only hosting company. I dare say the anti-spam features that I've got are pretty much top of the line. Anyway, check it out. :-) Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From mlists Tue Oct 26 12:59:37 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:59:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <1492124E-2758-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> <63B0FA76-2757-11D9-8250-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <1492124E-2758-11D9-8835-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041026165937.GD6916@bizintegrators.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 10:05:23AM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 26, 2004, at 10:00 AM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >Strongly recommend Bruno and Co. ..who's on the list. > > > >www.bizintegrators.com > > > >OBSD shop. > > > >g > > Yep- second that here, I have an account with them- they do a totally > great job in the bitstorm that now is email... > Present. My email is bruno at bizintegrators.com. Thanks guys, you are so fast.. Bruno From lists Tue Oct 26 17:04:16 2004 From: lists (Francisco Reyes) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <20041026170154.P11100@zoraida.natserv.net> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Trish Lynch wrote: > my company is looking at a place to host about 5 email delivery (POP/IMAP) > boxes for a small sister company You looking to collocate 5 machines or just to handle the mail? I use http://hub.org for all my hosting. Their pricing structure works great for hosting email. You get a VM and pay for disk/usage. You configure all the email accounts you want. If you need the machines collocated.. At one point I was talking to http://addy.com about collocating some boxes with them and they seem like were willing to do it for a good price. I have used them for nearly 10 years for hosting and mail. Also had a dedicated machine once with them. From pete Tue Oct 26 20:45:49 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:45:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll Message-ID: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but sometimes you have to switch over to the dark side and run...gasp linux. so what distro do folks around here prefer. i'll start it off myself: debian anyway i thought it'd just be fun to see who runs what.... -p ps-->this has nothing to due to me defecting and moving that other coast, i've always been able to barely tolerate debian ;p -- ~~oO00Oo~~ Peter Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete 917.415.9866 From nycbug Tue Oct 26 20:48:42 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:48:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041027004842.GA35526@florian.hastek.net> Pete Wright: > linux. so what distro do folks around here prefer. > > debian SuSE flawless German engineering, and Green too ;) From george Tue Oct 26 20:49:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:49:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but > sometimes you have to switch over to the We should actually consider doing this on the site. . . favorite packet filter favorite method of installing apps window manager/desktop environment mua mta www browser etc. > dark side and run...gasp linux. so what distro do folks around here > prefer. i'll start it off myself: > > debian apt go west coast. > > anyway i thought it'd just be fun to see who runs what.... > > > -p > > ps-->this has nothing to due to me defecting and moving that other > coast, i've always been able to barely tolerate debian ;p > sure. . .that's an attempt to undercut the sentiment about you here .. . g From tux Tue Oct 26 21:04:44 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:04:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: poll References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> <20041027004842.GA35526@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: <002301c4bbc0$f35efca0$0500a8c0@apollo> : so what distro do folks around here prefer. The first is still the best - Slackware. I also use Xandros and Debian when I'm in the mood to break something :) (WTF does Debian insist on installing Exim when installing Apache and screwing up my MTA?!? Then again, that's why I use a BSD...) From alex Tue Oct 26 21:16:06 2004 From: alex (alex at pilosoft.com) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > > > hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but > > sometimes you have to switch over to the > > We should actually consider doing this on the site. . . > > favorite packet filter > favorite method of installing apps > window manager/desktop environment > mua > mta > www browser How about...BEST TOOL FOR A JOB? That being said, anything written by djb is disqualified ;) -alex From scottro Tue Oct 26 21:21:34 2004 From: scottro (Scott Robbins) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:21:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041027012134.GB594@scottro11.homeunix.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 08:45:49PM -0400, Pete Wright wrote: > hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but > sometimes you have to switch over to the dark side and run...gasp > linux. so what distro do folks around here prefer. i'll start it off > myself: > > debian Arch Linux. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Giles: Nothing left but skin and cartilage. Xander: In other words, this was no boating accident. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBfvge+lTVdes0Z9YRAi9eAJ49mOfFcNhqzBAlt7snxcJ2LAtM8QCfa1R1 0A3rO8dANEf+qfTvk54bDkk= =2cKZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nikolai.fetissov Tue Oct 26 22:30:50 2004 From: nikolai.fetissov (Nikolai N. Fetissov) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:30:50 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] email hosting needed... In-Reply-To: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> References: <20041026095224.J1479@ultra.bsdunix.net> Message-ID: <417F085A.7070301@peachisland.com> I switched to GeekISP couple of months ago. It's all OBSD shop, so far has been great. -- Nikolai N. Fetissov PeachIsland Engineering, LLC Trish Lynch wrote: > my company is looking at a place to host about 5 email delivery (POP/IMAP) > boxes for a small sister company (they don't want it here for other > reasons) > > Anyone have any reputable small hosting providers that woudn't mind? > > -Trish > From ike Wed Oct 27 01:22:46 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:22:46 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <3C773A24-27D8-11D9-97AD-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 26, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > anyway i thought it'd just be fun to see who runs what.... MKLinux Rocks- was my first UNIX. :) Still have it running in the office (for history's sake). The MKLinux mailing list still runs, though you'd hardly think so. Rocket- .ike From ike Wed Oct 27 01:34:59 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:34:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ACX100 Firmware Licensing-Important Message for all the BSD's Message-ID: Hi All, Pete directed me to a current issue in the OpenBSD community that is of interest to all of us, and ALL open source operating systems. (I hope most would agree this is important enough to warrant this cross-post, sorry to those of you who subscribe to the OpenBSD-misc list.) ACX100 Firmware Licensing -- Open source software runs on on hardware. That said, the OpenBSD teams have run into a wall with Texas Instruments, as some specific 802.11b wireless chipsets have firmware which carries restrictive licenses, and the OpenBSD team, (and others), cannot legally include the driver with the operating system. NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Dragonfly, and all of the Linux's, more, are all affected, though currently, the OpenBSD team is wailing and gnashing teeth... Distributing a driver a given operating system is something we all can take for granted, > Having to install a firmware file only found on a CDROM > sold with the card after install is crazy. Ryan Mcbride, (who many of us know to be the author of PF and CARP), had this to say on he OpenBSD-MISC list: > We'd like to support the Texas Instruments ACX100 802.11b wireless > chipset (DLink DWL-520+, DWL-650+, and others), but we can't include a > working driver without the firmware binary blob, which is available but > has a restrictive license. We have tried to contact TI, through all > the > channels available to us. They have not even replied to our mail. > > We are simply trying to have a frank discussion with the right people, > and noone inside TI thus far is helping us find the right people. > Perhaps you -- as consumers -- can convince them to talk to us? I'm emailing here to solicit the help of our NYC*BUG community(!), > > Any other contacts you might have at TI would also be helpful. > > Bill Carney +1 707 521 3069 > Mr Taketo Fukui 81-3-4331-2060 > Dr John T Coffey +1 707 284 2224 > Mr Srikanth Gummadi +1 707 284 2209 > Dr Srinath Hosur (214) 480-4432 > Dr Jie Liang (214) 480-4105 > Mr Joe Mueller 858 646 3358 > Mr Lior Ophir (972) 9 970-6542 > Dr Stephen Pope (510) 841-8315 > Mr Yoram Solomon (408) 965-2196 > Tim Riker > DuVal, Mary" > Anand Dabak > "Anand G. Dabak" > Tim Schmidl > Sean Coffey > Srikanth Gummadi > Srinath Hosur > Muhammad Ikram > Joseph Mueller > Lior Ophir > Stephen Pope > Ian Sherlock > Manoneet Singh > Richar Williams > Hirohisa Yamaguchi How can you help? You can email the above list of individuals at TI, and ask that they change their restrictive licensing for their firmware. Feel free to use Ryan McBride's email as a template, (posted in full below). This may seem like a rash action, blindly emailing everyone listed here, but they have been warned. Also pasted below, Theo de Radt explains more about how this kind of action got Adaptec to open up before in a similar manner. It got their attention, and in the end, made them money selling more hardware, and made Adaptec hardware very well supported across all open source operating systems. Those of us who work in larger organizations, or small and complicated ones, know all too well the complexities of politics and un-informed business red tape can wreak havoc. Theo de Radt described later in this list thread, > These companies are huge and they shelter their internal decision > makers; even after weeks orr months of effort it is still impossible > for us to talk to the right people, and even then, they try to ignore > us because they do not think our concerns are important enough. > > As consumers, you can change that. It worked before. Worth trying, > no? Worth trying, I think so! With that, I've pasted below the full emails which I've quoted here, and would like to ask for everyone to get involved! Send an email from your company address to the above addresses, and, if your organization has a CTO/CIO/Manager/etc..., use this information and make sure they send an email too! Best, .ike ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ryan McBride Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:33:49 +0000 Subject: ACX100 Firmware Licensing To: misc at openbsd.org We'd like to support the Texas Instruments ACX100 802.11b wireless chipset (DLink DWL-520+, DWL-650+, and others), but we can't include a working driver without the firmware binary blob, which is available but has a restrictive license. We have tried to contact TI, through all the channels available to us. They have not even replied to our mail. We are simply trying to have a frank discussion with the right people, and noone inside TI thus far is helping us find the right people. Perhaps you -- as consumers -- can convince them to talk to us? Any other contacts you might have at TI would also be helpful. Bill Carney +1 707 521 3069 Mr Taketo Fukui 81-3-4331-2060 Dr John T Coffey +1 707 284 2224 Mr Srikanth Gummadi +1 707 284 2209 Dr Srinath Hosur (214) 480-4432 Dr Jie Liang (214) 480-4105 Mr Joe Mueller 858 646 3358 Mr Lior Ophir (972) 9 970-6542 Dr Stephen Pope (510) 841-8315 Mr Yoram Solomon (408) 965-2196 Tim Riker DuVal, Mary" Anand Dabak "Anand G. Dabak" Tim Schmidl Sean Coffey Srikanth Gummadi Srinath Hosur Muhammad Ikram Joseph Mueller Lior Ophir Stephen Pope Ian Sherlock Manoneet Singh Richar Williams Hirohisa Yamaguchi ----- Forwarded message from Ryan McBride ----- From: Ryan McBride Subject: ACX100 Firmware Licensing Greetings Since I do not know which one of you to contact, I am contacting all of you in the hopes that someone can redirect me to the responsible party who can help me. I am contacting on behalf of the open source operating system called OpenBSD, but the message applies to all of the other open source operating systems (Linux, the other BSD's, etc). In open source operating systems the support for some 802.11 devices, drivers such as TIs ACX100 chip, is lagging because the vendors are taking rather restrictive approaches regarding their technology. We have begun working on a driver for this chip, but it will be crippled in our operating system due to the absence of a freely available firmware image. Our policy is as follows: We will include a firmware from a vendor if it is freely redistributable. It can be a binary blob of data. It must be copyrighted, of course, but that is in the interest of the vendor. Our user community is very compatibility driven in their purchasing decisions; they seek out the components that are stable and well supported, and it is not the ACX100 varients that they will select. Even if a free driver exists, they will avoid these cards since the firmware is not included in the operating system, so you are selling fewer cards than you could. I don't know if the open source operating systems are rising as much some of the press leads us to believe, but if they are, you can no longer afford to turn your back on a fickle and technically savvy community. In the past, vendors have gotten by because there were no options, but now that some have begun opening up with freely licensed firmware and usable technical documentation, open source users have a choice, and they will be chosing the best supported cards, ie those from vendors who cooperate with the open source projects. There is another threat to your business model of remaining closed. Some vendors like RealTek and Ralink have come out with fully documented chipsets. Even Intel's Centrino-associated chipsets are now fully documented, and Cisco's remain documented. And of course we fully support the old Lucent, Prism, and Symbol devices. Texas Instruments can avoid getting sidelined in the open source market, by working with us to release the firmware in a way we can use it. Other companies that have met with the same firmware choices? Qlogic ISP scsi/fiberchannel PCI cards 3com Ethernet cards that do IPSEC offloading Adaptec Intel 100mbit card firmware upgrades for bugs NCR for their scsi products There are about 20 other smaller companies on the list too. This is a copyright notice from a Qlogic SCSI card firmware: * Copyright (C) 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 Qlogic, Inc. * All rights reserved. * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms are permitted provided * that the following conditions are met: * 1. Redistribution of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistribution in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. The name of the author may not be used to endorse or promote products * derived from this software without specific prior written permission * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHOR ``AS IS'' AND ANY EXPRESS OR * IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES * OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. * IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, * INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT * NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, * DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY * THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF * THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE. Four years ago the open source community told Qlogic that they had to make their firmware free, or the driver would be deleted from the various operating systems. They resisted us. The driver was deleted from a couple of operating systems. A few days later they contacted us again to make the firmware free, and the driver was re-added. We told our users what was going on, and told them who to talk to. Five years ago, Adaptec was refusing to give us documentation for their scsi cards. We worked persistantly to build up communication with Adaptec and were shunned. So we gave a list of contacts (much like the cc: list you see above to our user community). Our users contacted 40 email addresses at Adaptec. A few days later Adaptec mailed us 2 of every cards they made, along with 2 copies of the manuals for every chipset they made. And we wrote support for all their devices, and they have sold thousands and thousands of cards as a result. After Qlogic and Adaptec started giving documentation to, all the other vendors stepped into line very quickly. The same thing happened with Ethernet chipsets after Taiwanese companies started making DEC Tulip semi-clones. The market for secrets fell apart, price and the customer rule now. We hope to see TI release a set of ACX100 firmware images with a copyright notice as shown above. We can talk about it. We know how to craft a copyright notice that will be in your interests, and also will be sufficient for the full range of Open Source project requirements. Otherwise vendors who have opened their firmware and/or documentation, are going to eat into your business, or seen another way, you will lose a business opportunity. In a few days I will be giving the list of contact information to our user community -- please consider them your customers, your potential customers, or your lost customers. If I am not convincing enough, perhaps they can be. -Ryan -- Ryan McBride, OpenBSD Project mcbride at openbsd.org ----- End forwarded message ----- ###################################################################### ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Theo de Raadt Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:05:52 -0600 Subject: Re: ACX100 Firmware Licensing To: misc at openbsd.org > We'd like to support the Texas Instruments ACX100 802.11b wireless > chipset (DLink DWL-520+, DWL-650+, and others), but we can't include a > working driver without the firmware binary blob, which is available but > has a restrictive license. We have tried to contact TI, through all > the > channels available to us. They have not even replied to our mail. > > We are simply trying to have a frank discussion with the right people, > and noone inside TI thus far is helping us find the right people. > Perhaps you -- as consumers -- can convince them to talk to us? > > Any other contacts you might have at TI would also be helpful. > > Bill Carney +1 707 521 3069 > Mr Taketo Fukui 81-3-4331-2060 > Dr John T Coffey +1 707 284 2224 > Mr Srikanth Gummadi +1 707 284 2209 > Dr Srinath Hosur (214) 480-4432 > Dr Jie Liang (214) 480-4105 > Mr Joe Mueller 858 646 3358 > Mr Lior Ophir (972) 9 970-6542 > Dr Stephen Pope (510) 841-8315 > Mr Yoram Solomon (408) 965-2196 > Tim Riker > DuVal, Mary" > Anand Dabak > "Anand G. Dabak" > Tim Schmidl > Sean Coffey > Srikanth Gummadi > Srinath Hosur > Muhammad Ikram > Joseph Mueller > Lior Ophir > Stephen Pope > Ian Sherlock > Manoneet Singh > Richar Williams > Hirohisa Yamaguchi For those of you new to this type of (shall we call it) activism, let me tell you something. I think 6 years ago we asked our user community to contact Adaptec in the same way. We had been requesting documentation for their scsi chips, and Adaptec had been giving us the round-about for over a year. It was going nowhere. We asked our users to email the 30-some email addresses which we had attempted dialogue with over the year. Five hours later I had a phone call from Adaptec asking me to stop our users from mailing them. I said it was `beyond my control'. They said that a few of the people were HR staff. I said it was `beyond my control'. Next day, Adaptec asked for two of our addresses. They express shipped boxes containing a full compliment of cards, as well as documentation for all their chips. As a result today you will find that Adaptec scsi support in OpenBSD is solid. (Similar approaches with other vendors have had impact as well; OpenBSD -- and other systems -- are better as a result). The QLogic story is similar. In this case, we are not asking TI for documentation for their boards. A driver already exists. I believe it was reverse engineered by some Linux people, and BSD work is in progress. We just want to discuss with TI what licensing changes might be possible so that the firmware for their cards can be included in Open Source operating system releases. Having to install a firmware file only found on a CDROM sold with the card after install is crazy. These companies are huge and they shelter their internal decision makers; even after weeks orr months of effort it is still impossible for us to talk to the right people, and even then, they try to ignore us because they do not think our concerns are important enough. As consumers, you can change that. It worked before. Worth trying, no? Just tell the right TI people to come talking to me. Thanks. From tux Wed Oct 27 02:13:42 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 02:13:42 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ACX100 Firmware Licensing-Important Message for allthe BSD's References: Message-ID: <00b501c4bbec$1f2c7620$0500a8c0@apollo> Out of all those addresses listed, I only had one (1) bounce back: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 5.1.2 ... Host unknown (Name server: hc.ti.com: host not found) -Kevin From ike Wed Oct 27 03:22:53 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:22:53 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] ACX100 Firmware Licensing-Important Message for allthe BSD's In-Reply-To: <00b501c4bbec$1f2c7620$0500a8c0@apollo> References: <00b501c4bbec$1f2c7620$0500a8c0@apollo> Message-ID: <03FAA8A2-27E9-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 27, 2004, at 2:13 AM, Kevin Reiter wrote: > Out of all those addresses listed, I only had one (1) bounce back: > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 550 5.1.2 ... Host unknown (Name server: hc.ti.com: > host > not found) Terrific! Below, for simpler copy/paste with the addresses, are the TI contacts again: bcarney at ti.com, fukui at ti.com, coffey at ti.com, sgummadi at ti.com, hosur at ti.com, jliang at iee.org, mueller at ti.com, lior.ophir at ti.com, spp at ti.com, yoram at ti.com, tim at ti.com, m-duval at ti.com, dabak at ti.com, dabak at hc.ti.com, schmidl at ti.com, coffey at ti.com, sgummadi at ti.com, hosur at ti.com, mzi at ti.com, mueller at ti.com, lior.ophir at ti.com, spp at ti.com, isherlock at ti.com, msingh at ti.com, richard at ti.com, h-yamaguchi4 at ti.com, Best, .ike From lists Wed Oct 27 08:34:26 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:34:26 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20041027083426.2e63f26e@delinux.abwatley.com> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:45:49 -0400 Pete Wright wrote: > hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but > sometimes you have to switch over to the dark side and run...gasp > linux. so what distro do folks around here prefer. i'll start it off > myself: > > debian gentoo -- --- From sunny-ml Wed Oct 27 09:41:54 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:41:54 -0400 Subject: BSD on HP Proliant machines (was: RE: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd)) Message-ID: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Monday 25 October 2004 18:28, Brown, James (Jim) wrote: > HP is the same way. > > These are a very strong platform for BSD and they *can* be made to: > 1. work well; and 2. be supported by IBM/HP. > > If this could be done- I think more interest and committment would > roll our way. (yes, this was top posted) At one of my offices, they purchased an HP Proliant server. While getting Linux on it. I was highly annoyed at the speed in which the fans were spinning. In order to turn down the speed of the fans I had to install binary only software called HPASM. Apparently HPASM is software that runs on all HP Proliant machines, and does basic server management stuff. (Like turning down the bloody fans.) It does some other cool stuff like kernel crashing detection. This software is released in RPM only format for RHEL and SuSE-Ent. Having it ported to both debian and mandrake was largely trivial for me, but it may annoy and scare other non-RPM junkies away from trying to extract and install. It might even force lots of people to stick to RHEL and SuSE-Ent. (The HPASM software also sucks because of its dependencies on older releases of the GNU GlibC/C++ libraries). There is no port of this software to BSD. None at all. Which means that if you wanted the cool features this software provides (and some sanity for your ear drums), HP servers are not the way to go for BSD machines. It might be possible to run HPASM under the linux binary emulation system. (recent versions of the HPASM software are done entirely in usermode, and binary only kernel modules are not needed anymore.) However this would be a crappy solution. Sunny Dubey From dave-dated-1099492289.4260ef Wed Oct 27 10:32:08 2004 From: dave-dated-1099492289.4260ef (Dave Steinberg) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:32:08 -0400 Subject: BSD on HP Proliant machines (was: RE: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: > It might be possible to run HPASM under the linux binary emulation > system. > (recent versions of the HPASM software are done entirely in usermode, > and > binary only kernel modules are not needed anymore.) However this > would be a > crappy solution. Why crappy? If it works, what's the issue? (Maybe it doesn't, just curious... :) Regards, -- Dave Steinberg http://www.geekisp.com/ From mikel.king Wed Oct 27 10:41:25 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:41:25 -0400 Subject: BSD on HP Proliant machines (was: RE: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <417FB395.6060208@ocsny.com> Just curious which model proliant was it? Sunny Dubey wrote: >On Monday 25 October 2004 18:28, Brown, James (Jim) wrote: > > > >>HP is the same way. >> >>These are a very strong platform for BSD and they *can* be made to: >>1. work well; and 2. be supported by IBM/HP. >> >>If this could be done- I think more interest and committment would >>roll our way. >> >> > >(yes, this was top posted) > >At one of my offices, they purchased an HP Proliant server. > >While getting Linux on it. I was highly annoyed at the speed in which the >fans were spinning. In order to turn down the speed of the fans I had to >install binary only software called HPASM. > >Apparently HPASM is software that runs on all HP Proliant machines, and does >basic server management stuff. (Like turning down the bloody fans.) It does >some other cool stuff like kernel crashing detection. > >This software is released in RPM only format for RHEL and SuSE-Ent. Having it >ported to both debian and mandrake was largely trivial for me, but it may >annoy and scare other non-RPM junkies away from trying to extract and >install. It might even force lots of people to stick to RHEL and SuSE-Ent. > >(The HPASM software also sucks because of its dependencies on older releases >of the GNU GlibC/C++ libraries). > >There is no port of this software to BSD. None at all. > >Which means that if you wanted the cool features this software provides (and >some sanity for your ear drums), HP servers are not the way to go for BSD >machines. > >It might be possible to run HPASM under the linux binary emulation system. >(recent versions of the HPASM software are done entirely in usermode, and >binary only kernel modules are not needed anymore.) However this would be a >crappy solution. > >Sunny Dubey >_______________________________________________ >% NYC*BUG talk mailing list >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >%Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists >%We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > -- Cheers, Mikel King Optimized Computer Solutions, INC 39 West Fourteenth Street Second Floor New York, NY 10011 http://www.ocsny.com t: 212.727.2100x132 +------------------------------------------+ You may like them. You will see. You may like them in a tree. http://www.FreeBSD.org http://www.OpenOffice.org http://www.Mozilla.org +------------------------------------------+ How do you spell cooperation? Pessimists use each other, but optimists help each other. Collaboration feeds your spirit, while competition only stokes your ego. You'll find the best way to get along. +------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20041027/1ab3ba57/attachment.html From pete Wed Oct 27 10:43:02 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:43:02 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: BSD on HP Proliant machines In-Reply-To: References: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <417FB3F6.3080400@nomadlogic.org> Dave Steinberg wrote: >> It might be possible to run HPASM under the linux binary emulation >> system. >> (recent versions of the HPASM software are done entirely in usermode, >> and >> binary only kernel modules are not needed anymore.) However this >> would be a >> crappy solution. > > > Why crappy? If it works, what's the issue? (Maybe it doesn't, just > curious... :) > > Regards, from my perspective, i would like to try to keep my systems as simple as possible i.e. no messing around with installing linux emulation just to controll firmware. it seems like it's just another layer of unneeded complexity created on the vendors part (i think this holds true even in regard to the rpm only format of distribution). -p From sunny-ml Wed Oct 27 10:41:46 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:41:46 -0400 Subject: BSD on HP Proliant machines (was: RE: [nycbug-talk] BSD Success Stories (fwd)) In-Reply-To: References: <200410270941.54988.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <200410271041.47094.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 10:32, Dave Steinberg wrote: > Why crappy? If it works, what's the issue? (Maybe it doesn't, just > curious... :) well, I would assume when one purchases such an expensive server, they are going to have real uses for it (unless they were duped into purchasing it) real usage would mean stability and not playing games there seems to be a big difference between: HPASM --> linux --> hardware and HPASM --> linux --> linux-emu --> BSD --> hardware (I have no idea what HP's warrenty, SLA's, etc state about which OS should be running on the box) Sunny Dubey From o_sleep Wed Oct 27 10:49:43 2004 From: o_sleep (Bjorn Nelson) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:49:43 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <7024C986-2827-11D9-9249-003065B84EC8@belovedarctos.com> > hey i have a poll for the nycbug. i know we love bsd an all, but > sometimes you have to switch over to the dark side and run...gasp > linux. so what distro do folks around here prefer. i'll start it off > myself: > > debian > > anyway i thought it'd just be fun to see who runs what.... Considering the only reason I would run linux over bsd is if I had to. Which means it is an app that needs to run on a "certified" OS. It is limited to two options: Redhat or SUSE. I choose SUSE. There is more room for growth at Novell. SUSE is as well supported as RedHat (almost) and with the other projects at Novell being integrating, I think it will have some things that you won't be able to find elsewhere. -Bjorn From george Wed Oct 27 12:01:56 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:01:56 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license Message-ID: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> More on the firmware issues. . .This is from OBSD-misc, and we had initially discussed Intel's Centrino as NYC*BUG was launched . . . Of course there's another email to hit at Intel. Begin forwarded message: > From: Jason Crawford > Date: October 27, 2004 11:34:47 AM EDT > To: jketreno at linux.intel.com > Cc: misc at openbsd.org > Subject: Re: Fw: Firmware license > Reply-To: Jason Crawford > > While Intel may feel it is not in Intel's best interest to release > its wireless firmware under the BSD license, there are many companies > that do business with open source code, not worrying about "IP" > issues, and they have gained many customers in the open source world > that they would otherwise not have had. And since Intel is not a > company that will want any customers from the Open Source world, I > will no longer be buying or recommending any Intel products, including > at my place of work where I have purchasing power. Just because code > is released Open Source does not mean you will lose profits, I hope > that your lawyers will see it that way soon. > > > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:54:40 -0400 (EDT), Sunny Raspet > wrote: >> For what it's worth, I just received this from Mr. Ketrenos after >> contacting him to express my displeasure with Intel's licensing. I >> found it interesting enough to share with the list. >> >> Enjoy, or not, as the case may be. >> >> -Sunny Raspet >> >> --- Forwarded message follows --- >> >> From jketreno at linux.intel.com Tue Oct 26 16:30:44 2004 >> Received: from orsfmr001.jf.intel.com (fmr12.intel.com >> [134.134.136.15]) >> by rincewind.mordac.info (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id >> i9QKUh2F004061 >> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) >> Received: from talaria.jf.intel.com (talaria.jf.intel.com >> [10.7.209.7]) >> by orsfmr001.jf.intel.com (8.12.9-20030918-01/8.12.9/d: major- >> outer.mc,v 1.15 2004/01/30 18:16:28 root Exp $) with ESMTP id >> i9QKX97Z003202; >> Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:33:10 GMT >> Received: from linux.intel.com (hdlrvguser-343.hd.intel.com >> [10.127.53.106]) >> by talaria.jf.intel.com (8.12.9-20030918-01/8.12.9/d: major- >> inner.mc,v 1.11 2004/07/29 22:51:53 root Exp $) with ESMTP id >> i9QKPRUI009498; >> Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:25:29 GMT >> Message-ID: <417EB444.1000905 at linux.intel.com> >> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:04 -0500 >> From: James Ketrenos >> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) >> Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 >> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: undisclosed-recipient-list at linux.intel.com >> Subject: Firmware license >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.31 (www . roaringpenguin . com / >> mimedefang) >> Status: R Simple headers >> >> You are receiving this email because you recently made an inquiry >> regarding the >> license terms surrounding the firmware for the Intel PRO/Wireless >> network adapters. >> >> After speaking with Intel legal and business teams, the conclusion is >> that the >> BSD model outlined by you and others is not compatible with the >> restrictions >> Intel must place on the firmware. We appreciate the nature of the >> request but >> are unable to support a BSD release. The firmware is made of Intel >> code and >> code provided by third parties, and the license obligations we have to >> the third >> party code prevents us from releasing the code under a BSD license. >> >> It is Intel's intent that the license covering the firmware be >> sufficient to >> allow [re]distribution to end users while ensuring that the >> intellectual >> property of Intel and its suppliers be properly protected. It is our >> experience >> that the majority of users have been satisfied with the current >> license >> provisions and/or understand Intel's position, and are able comply >> with >> the >> license while enabling distribution to their end users. While we >> understand that >> the preference would be the release of the firmware driver under the >> BSD, we >> have enabled you with the means to redistribute the firmware to third >> parties >> through a broad, albeit proprietary, license. >> >> While we appreciate the open discussion on the issue re the BSD >> request, we >> trust that you will understand that Intel has provided its analysis of >> the >> request. Accordingly, this will be treated as the final messaging for >> this >> particular firmware driver issue. >> >> James > > From george Wed Oct 27 12:26:01 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:26:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license Message-ID: more on Intel. . .this could obviously profit all the BSDs. . . g Begin forwarded message: > From: Theo de Raadt > Date: October 27, 2004 11:54:41 AM EDT > To: Jason Crawford > Cc: jketreno at linux.intel.com, misc at openbsd.org > Subject: Re: Fw: Firmware license > > Now are are talking about Intel, not TI. > > I have decided that in light of > > - the lack of a frank dialogue on this issue (no phone calls) > - Intel's policy is not coming from a person in Intel legal or > who is capable of setting policy > - The extremely hardline stance shown below > > It is time to take this to the next level. > > As consumers, here is the list of people at Intel that you can contact > regarding this issue. We have been working for about a week and a bit > to generate this list of contacts. It really is hard to generate such > lists, because these companies really shelter their decision makers. > We may have some of them wrong. Sorry, but noone at Intel ever told us > who else to talk to. > > But as customers perhaps you can ask these people to get the message > through to the right people at Intel, so that they will finally start > up a frank dialogue on what open source friendly licensing means. > Intel > is one of the last vendors on the same page. > > In an age where AMD and VIA and Adaptec and many Taiwanese hardware > manufacturers are publishing complete documentation and mailing us > development hardware, there is a serious disconnect with reality at > Intel. Since they are a large manufacturer, perhaps we can save them > from their arrogance. > > I have attempted to get the issue of Open Source friendly licensing on > the table at Intel. One person has told us that their existing > license is fine, because it is being used by some Linux vendors, but > to this day they still have not told us which Linux vendors those are. > I believe that it is a lie. > > I am below the radar at Intel Legal. Maybe they will listen to their > customers. > > roxanne.r.gryder at intel.com > vivek.g.gupta at intel.com > keith.holt at intel.com > changwen.liu at intel.com > art.martin at intel.com > joe.pitarresi at intel.com > emily.h.qi at intel.com > john.sadowsky at intel.com > charlie.tai at intel.com > james.mike.wilson at intel.com > salwan.searty at intel.com > crystal.xiong at intel.com > jketreno at linux.intel.com > Mr Boyd Bangerter boyd.bangerter at intel.com (503) 264-7773 > Mr Eric Jacobsen eric.a.jacobsen at intel.com (480) 554-6078 > Mr Ducan Kitchin duncan.kitchin at intel.com +1 503 264 2727 > Mr Uriel Lemberger uriel.lemberger at intel.com +972 (4) 8655701 > Dr Ali Sadri ali.s.sadri at intel.com (858) 385-4571 > Dr Adrian Stephens adrian.p.stephons at intel.com +44 1223 763457 > Dr Chin C Tsien chih.c.tsien at intel.com +1 858 385 4317 > Dr Jesse Walker jesse.walker at intel.com +1 503 712 1849 > > > I have left one person off this list since they appear to be willing > to have a dialogue still. If that too falls apart, I will be posting > Peter's information as well. > > Companies who don't respect their customers do not deserve respect in > kind. > > Cheers. > > > >> While Intel may feel it is not in Intel's best interest to release >> its wireless firmware under the BSD license, there are many companies >> that do business with open source code, not worrying about "IP" >> issues, and they have gained many customers in the open source world >> that they would otherwise not have had. And since Intel is not a >> company that will want any customers from the Open Source world, I >> will no longer be buying or recommending any Intel products, including >> at my place of work where I have purchasing power. Just because code >> is released Open Source does not mean you will lose profits, I hope >> that your lawyers will see it that way soon. >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:54:40 -0400 (EDT), Sunny Raspet >> wrote: >>> For what it's worth, I just received this from Mr. Ketrenos after >>> contacting him to express my displeasure with Intel's licensing. I >>> found it interesting enough to share with the list. >>> >>> Enjoy, or not, as the case may be. >>> >>> -Sunny Raspet >>> >>> --- Forwarded message follows --- >>> >>> From jketreno at linux.intel.com Tue Oct 26 16:30:44 2004 >>> Received: from orsfmr001.jf.intel.com (fmr12.intel.com >>> [134.134.136.15]) >>> by rincewind.mordac.info (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id >>> i9QKUh2F004061 >>> for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:30:44 -0400 (EDT) >>> Received: from talaria.jf.intel.com (talaria.jf.intel.com >>> [10.7.209.7]) >>> by orsfmr001.jf.intel.com (8.12.9-20030918-01/8.12.9/d: major- >>> outer.mc,v 1.15 2004/01/30 18:16:28 root Exp $) with ESMTP id >>> i9QKX97Z003202; >>> Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:33:10 GMT >>> Received: from linux.intel.com (hdlrvguser-343.hd.intel.com >>> [10.127.53.106]) >>> by talaria.jf.intel.com (8.12.9-20030918-01/8.12.9/d: major- >>> inner.mc,v 1.11 2004/07/29 22:51:53 root Exp $) with ESMTP id >>> i9QKPRUI009498; >>> Tue, 26 Oct 2004 20:25:29 GMT >>> Message-ID: <417EB444.1000905 at linux.intel.com> >>> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:32:04 -0500 >>> From: James Ketrenos >>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) >>> Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 >>> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en >>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>> To: undisclosed-recipient-list at linux.intel.com >>> Subject: Firmware license >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.31 (www . roaringpenguin . com / >>> mimedefang) >>> Status: R Simple headers >>> >>> You are receiving this email because you recently made an inquiry >>> regarding the >>> license terms surrounding the firmware for the Intel PRO/Wireless >>> network adapters. >>> >>> After speaking with Intel legal and business teams, the conclusion is >>> that the >>> BSD model outlined by you and others is not compatible with the >>> restrictions >>> Intel must place on the firmware. We appreciate the nature of the >>> request but >>> are unable to support a BSD release. The firmware is made of Intel >>> code and >>> code provided by third parties, and the license obligations we have >>> to >>> the third >>> party code prevents us from releasing the code under a BSD license. >>> >>> It is Intel's intent that the license covering the firmware be >>> sufficient to >>> allow [re]distribution to end users while ensuring that the >>> intellectual >>> property of Intel and its suppliers be properly protected. It is our >>> experience >>> that the majority of users have been satisfied with the current >>> license >>> provisions and/or understand Intel's position, and are able comply >>> with >>> the >>> license while enabling distribution to their end users. While we >>> understand that >>> the preference would be the release of the firmware driver under the >>> BSD, we >>> have enabled you with the means to redistribute the firmware to third >>> parties >>> through a broad, albeit proprietary, license. >>> >>> While we appreciate the open discussion on the issue re the BSD >>> request, we >>> trust that you will understand that Intel has provided its analysis >>> of >>> the >>> request. Accordingly, this will be treated as the final messaging >>> for >>> this >>> particular firmware driver issue. >>> >>> James > > From george Wed Oct 27 12:37:11 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:37:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: BSD Support for Centrino Message-ID: <7344277F-2836-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: G. Rosamond > Date: October 27, 2004 12:36:29 PM EDT > To: jketreno at linux.intel.com > Subject: BSD Support for Centrino > > Greetings: > > I am a regular user of the BSDs as a systems administrator for many > years, not to mention a published technical writer and someone with > heavy involvement in the New York City User Group scene. > > I would like to express my frustration at Intel's lack of interest in > supporting the BSDs with their Centrino platform. Providing the BSD > developers the necessary documentation at minimum is critical. > > The BSDs, as you may be aware, are not a new and ephemeral operating > system family. The origins come from the 1970's and they continue > their strong presence in whole industries, such as with ISPs, and > whole professions, such as with those involved in network security, > like myself. > > I implore you to join with AMD, VIA, Adaptec and others who take open > source software seriously. The developers of the BSD community are > committed to porting important technologies to their operating system > family. A similar commitment from Intel would be welcomed. > > I look forward to your follow-up. > > George Rosamond, GSEC > From jbaltz Wed Oct 27 13:08:37 2004 From: jbaltz (Jerry B. Altzman) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:08:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] poll In-Reply-To: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> References: <417EEFBD.6090404@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <417FD615.7010109@omnipod.com> Pete Wright wrote: > debian Gentoo. Love those ports. Feels almost like a home away from home. > -p //jbaltz -- jerry b. altzman jbaltz at omnipod.com +1 646 230 8750 Thank you for contributing to the heat death of the universe. From sunny-ml Wed Oct 27 13:27:09 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:27:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 12:01, G. Rosamond wrote: > More on the firmware issues. . .This is from OBSD-misc, and we had > initially discussed Intel's Centrino as NYC*BUG was launched . . . > > Of course there's another email to hit at Intel. I don't think Intel is going to care. If millions of screaming linux folks can't get them to change, few people will. Intel's responce to us linux folks was to create a sourceforge project with OSS drivers that required the use of the binary only firmware[1]. The best part was the *intel employees* on that project itself couldn't use the *full* specs either.[2] Also, laptop ODM's, resellers, etc weren't to hot on Centrino either. But Intel didn't care, and forced it down their throats as well. So long as Intel is the *only* provider if high performance, low power x86 CPUs, they can keep doing as they want. They have a monopoly on the laptop market, and they know it. Sunny Dubey [1]http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net [2]read the about blurb From ike Wed Oct 27 13:31:20 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:31:20 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > They have a monopoly on the laptop > market, and they know it. Wait- I thought Apple did? ;) Rocket- .ike From sunny-ml Wed Oct 27 13:34:07 2004 From: sunny-ml (Sunny Dubey) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:34:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <200410271334.07247.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 13:31, Ike wrote: > On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > > They have a monopoly on the laptop > > market, and they know it. > > Wait- I thought Apple did? ?;) bah, use a real laptop a thinkpad :P Sunny Dubey From okan Wed Oct 27 13:37:21 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:37:21 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> On Wed 2004.10.27 at 13:31 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > > >They have a monopoly on the laptop > >market, and they know it. > > Wait- I thought Apple did? ;) and you would hope apple would do better on this front as well, but they don't. > Rocket- > .ike > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From chrisc Wed Oct 27 13:28:54 2004 From: chrisc (Chris Coleman) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: BSD Support for Centrino In-Reply-To: <7344277F-2836-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <7344277F-2836-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041027102818.J64843@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Can you add this to the Contact Campaigns at http://advocacy.daemonnews.org/viewforum.php?f=17 So others can join in. -Chris On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, G. Rosamond wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: G. Rosamond > > Date: October 27, 2004 12:36:29 PM EDT > > To: jketreno at linux.intel.com > > Subject: BSD Support for Centrino > > > > Greetings: > > > > I am a regular user of the BSDs as a systems administrator for many > > years, not to mention a published technical writer and someone with > > heavy involvement in the New York City User Group scene. > > > > I would like to express my frustration at Intel's lack of interest in > > supporting the BSDs with their Centrino platform. Providing the BSD > > developers the necessary documentation at minimum is critical. > > > > The BSDs, as you may be aware, are not a new and ephemeral operating > > system family. The origins come from the 1970's and they continue > > their strong presence in whole industries, such as with ISPs, and > > whole professions, such as with those involved in network security, > > like myself. > > > > I implore you to join with AMD, VIA, Adaptec and others who take open > > source software seriously. The developers of the BSD community are > > committed to porting important technologies to their operating system > > family. A similar commitment from Intel would be welcomed. > > > > I look forward to your follow-up. > > > > George Rosamond, GSEC > > > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From ike Wed Oct 27 13:41:01 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:41:01 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <5E7EC5B0-283F-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:37 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote: >> Wait- I thought Apple did? ;) > > and you would hope apple would do better on this front as well, but > they don't. Yep- I'll totally agree here. Rocket- .ike From spork Wed Oct 27 13:44:10 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Wed 2004.10.27 at 13:31 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: >> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: >> >>> They have a monopoly on the laptop >>> market, and they know it. >> >> Wait- I thought Apple did? ;) > > and you would hope apple would do better on this front as well, but > they don't. As much as I admire the diligence of those that put Linux on their powerbooks, the usefulness of that has always escaped me. I'm generally happy with the BSD that runs on my ibook and my G5 tower. :) Charles >> Rocket- >> .ike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> % NYC*BUG talk mailing list >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists >> %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > -- > Okan Demirmen > PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 > PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From george Wed Oct 27 13:47:45 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:47:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: <4EE17ECD-2840-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:44 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Okan Demirmen wrote: > >> On Wed 2004.10.27 at 13:31 -0400, Isaac Levy wrote: >>> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: >>> >>>> They have a monopoly on the laptop >>>> market, and they know it. >>> >>> Wait- I thought Apple did? ;) >> >> and you would hope apple would do better on this front as well, but >> they don't. > > As much as I admire the diligence of those that put Linux on their > powerbooks, the usefulness of that has always escaped me. > > I'm generally happy with the BSD that runs on my ibook and my G5 > tower. :) > I generally am also happy about the *BSD-derived OS* on my iBook, except I can't crack WEP due to Apple's chipset for the AirportExtreme card. And as a consultant wandering Manhattan and beyond on a daily basis, it's frustrating. g From ike Wed Oct 27 14:07:02 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:07:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <4EE17ECD-2840-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> <4EE17ECD-2840-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <00AEA3B0-2843-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:47 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > I generally am also happy about the *BSD-derived OS* on my iBook, > except I can't crack WEP due to Apple's chipset for the AirportExtreme > card. And as a consultant wandering Manhattan and beyond on a daily > basis, it's frustrating. > > g I'm not 100% on this, but I believe the AirPort G card issue has more to do with external chipset manufacturers than it does apple? They just put the chips in a different form factor... I'm under the impression this is a problem for most G cards? George, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'd love to resolve these issues myself too... Rocket- .ike From spork Wed Oct 27 14:24:53 2004 From: spork (Charles Sprickman) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <00AEA3B0-2843-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> <4EE17ECD-2840-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <00AEA3B0-2843-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Isaac Levy wrote: > I'm not 100% on this, but I believe the AirPort G card issue has more to do > with external chipset manufacturers than it does apple? They just put the > chips in a different form factor... > I'm under the impression this is a problem for most G cards? Looking at the kismac wiki, it appears that the AE card is Broadcom and that other broadcom cards have the same issue. Of course if you have a powerbook with a pcmcia slot, you're all set as you can throw just about any card in there. Any chipset that allows "passive" capture can do WEP cracking, but currently the Broadcom cards don't allow this. A rundown on "active vs. passive" is here: http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/wiki/wiki.php/KisMAC/FAQTechnicalPassiveVsActive Supported cards are here: http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/hardwarelist.php Charles > George, correct me if I'm wrong, as I'd love to resolve these issues myself > too... > > Rocket- > .ike > > From ike Wed Oct 27 14:28:23 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:28:23 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> <03CB06CC-283E-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> <20041027173721.GA44078@yinaska.pair.com> <4EE17ECD-2840-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <00AEA3B0-2843-11D9-9864-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: >> I'm under the impression this is a problem for most G cards? > > Looking at the kismac wiki, it appears that the AE card is Broadcom > and that other broadcom cards have the same issue. Of course if you > have a powerbook with a pcmcia slot, you're all set as you can throw > just about any card in there. > > Any chipset that allows "passive" capture can do WEP cracking, but > currently the Broadcom cards don't allow this. A rundown on "active > vs. passive" is here: > > http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/wiki/wiki.php/ > KisMAC/FAQTechnicalPassiveVsActive > > Supported cards are here: > > http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/hardwarelist.php > > Charles SWEET. Thanks for nailing the right links Charles! Rocket- .ike From lists Wed Oct 27 16:58:31 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:58:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NetBSD review Message-ID: <20041027165831.12d6006b@delinux.abwatley.com> ServerWatch > Reviews October 27, 2004 NetBSD, for When Portability and Stability Matter NetBSD: Ultra-portable and stable Unix variant of the *BSD operating system family The BSD family tree is almost biblical in lineage. The original BSD begat 2BSD, which begat 4.3BSD, which begat 386BSD, which begat FreeBSD and NetBSD, which begat OpenBSD. Or something like that. The actual diagram of BSD history may look like a Rorschach test, but there are currently three major flavors of BSD actively developed and used: FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. Technically, one could argue Apple's OS X is a fourth BSD family OS, but it is a special case. Read the whole review: http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3427681 -- --- From macuser Wed Oct 27 19:32:49 2004 From: macuser (Pastor Mac) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:32:49 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Wireless Cards for OSX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <83A534E8-2870-11D9-AF93-00306577F390@nac.net> On Wednesday, October 27, 2004, at 02:28 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: >>> I'm under the impression this is a problem for most G cards? >> >> Looking at the kismac wiki, it appears that the AE card is Broadcom >> and that other broadcom cards have the same issue. Of course if you >> have a powerbook with a pcmcia slot, you're all set as you can throw >> just about any card in there. >> >> Any chipset that allows "passive" capture can do WEP cracking, but >> currently the Broadcom cards don't allow this. A rundown on "active >> vs. passive" is here: >> >> http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/wiki/wiki.php/ >> KisMAC/FAQTechnicalPassiveVsActive >> >> Supported cards are here: >> >> http://binaervarianz.de/projekte/programmieren/kismac/hardwarelist.php >> I received a link to this page via a list I'm on for older Mac clones (yes, I'm running OS X on a pre-G3 beige Umax S900) and while the page I'm linking to is OS X specific it does do a nice job of summarizing chipsets and models and cross-reference material as needed. Worth a look. Pax, Pastor Mac On OS X Grace is when life itself is more than good enough. --Garrison Keillor From tux Wed Oct 27 22:35:19 2004 From: tux (Kevin Reiter) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:35:19 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC Job Op Message-ID: <001b01c4bc96$c5b77f30$0500a8c0@apollo> Sorry for the cross post, but I figure there's members of both lists who might be looking for work... I just spoke with Morris today while on a job I'm doing in NYC, and I'm already happily self-employed. I know he's looking for Linux/UNIX admins to help him out. I just spoke with him and asked his permission to post his message to the group. If anyone's interested, give him a call. He also forwarded 2 job postings he has online: http://www.yorkson.com/jobs/?jobid=0016 http://www.yorkson.com/jobs/?jobid=0014 -Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morris W. Stemp" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Contact Info : We are hiring full time techs if you are interested. Maybe making some : offers very soon so call me if you would like to talk. : : : Morris W. Stemp : Stemp Systems Group, Inc. : 38-01 Queens Blvd : Long Island City, NY 11101-1727 : Tel: 718-784-7376 Cell: 917-748-7388 Fax: 718-504-4402 : http://www.stempsystems.com From louis Wed Oct 27 22:55:15 2004 From: louis (Louis Bertrand) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Centrino support in BSD operating systems (fwd) Message-ID: My contribution. Dunno if it will help. Ciao --Louis ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:52:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Louis Bertrand To: roxanne.r.gryder at intel.com, vivek.g.gupta at intel.com, keith.holt at intel.com, changwen.liu at intel.com, art.martin at intel.com, joe.pitarresi at intel.com, emily.h.qi at intel.com, john.sadowsky at intel.com, charlie.tai at intel.com, james.mike.wilson at intel.com, salwan.searty at intel.com, salwan.searty at intel.com, crystal.xiong at intel.com, jketreno at linux.intel.com, boyd.bangerter at intel.com, eric.a.jacobsen at intel.com, duncan.kitchin at intel.com, uriel.lemberger at intel.com, ali.s.sadri at intel.com, adrian.p.stephons at intel.com, chih.c.tsien at intel.com, jesse.walker at intel.com Cc: Louis Bertrand Subject: Centrino support in BSD operating systems Hello, First, please accept my apologies for apparently "spamming" several email addresses at Intel. The list I have is said to include persons who may set or influence firmware and intellectual property policy at Intel. I would appreciate having the correct contact information for an official with the authority to set or influence this policy. I would like to add my voice to the pleas to support BSD licensed operating systems such as OpenBSD, FreeBSD and NetBSD with the Centrino laptop and wireless chipset. The BSD operating systems are unable to include Intel firmware because of restrictive licensing on the binary-only portion. I urge Intel to change its policy and open source this component. Intel's dominance of the market is clearly due to aggressive fabrication technology that yields high performance small geometry components, not some "secret sauce" hardware interface. There would be little loss of market advantage in releasing the source code. In fact, such a move would signal a thawing in the traditionally "cold war" relationship Intel has had with open source operating system developers. As well, the generous BSD license could mean that the reliable and secure code written by BSD developers would be available for Intel's own use internally, and in products. I currently teach full time in the Computer Systems Technology program at Durham College (www.durhamcollege.ca). Our school and our sister institution (www.uoit.ca) leases IBM Thinkpads to students as part of the academic program. Having BSD operating systems as part of my teacher toolkit would be an asset. Thanking you for your attention, Louis Bertrand http://www.bertrandtech.on.ca/ OpenBSD: Secure by default. http://www.openbsd.org/ From george Wed Oct 27 23:16:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:16:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Centrino support in BSD operating systems (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Louis Bertrand wrote: > My contribution. Dunno if it will help. > > Ciao > --Louis > some spam *is* good. . . I hit the same list. . .but sent it to each person individually. We are looking to implement some things on the NYC*BUG www site to push these things forward. . . Such as. . .online petitions, form submission petition, further information on the particular cases, standard form letters to copy and paste, etc. Input would be useful . .. I think enough emails could have an impact. . .guess i should respond to those who didn't think it would earlier. . . g From george Wed Oct 27 23:21:31 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:21:31 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Firmware license In-Reply-To: <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> References: <868FEB1D-2831-11D9-BF20-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <200410271327.09890.sunny-ml@opencurve.org> Message-ID: <768EB282-2890-11D9-B98D-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Sorry for the delayed response on this . .. . On Oct 27, 2004, at 1:27 PM, Sunny Dubey wrote: > On Wednesday 27 October 2004 12:01, G. Rosamond wrote: >> More on the firmware issues. . .This is from OBSD-misc, and we had >> initially discussed Intel's Centrino as NYC*BUG was launched . . . >> >> Of course there's another email to hit at Intel. > > I don't think Intel is going to care. There's two points to doing petitions and emails. . .first to attempt to pressure and say yes there is a market, but also to educate those doing the petitioning on the issues relevant to open source developers. > > If millions of screaming linux folks can't get them to change, few > people > will. Intel's responce to us linux folks was to create a sourceforge > project > with OSS drivers that required the use of the binary only firmware[1]. > The > best part was the *intel employees* on that project itself couldn't > use the > *full* specs either.[2] I'm aware of that. . . > > Also, laptop ODM's, resellers, etc weren't to hot on Centrino either. > But > Intel didn't care, and forced it down their throats as well. Okay. . . > > So long as Intel is the *only* provider if high performance, low power > x86 > CPUs, they can keep doing as they want. They have a monopoly on the > laptop > market, and they know it. Agree. . .but things do change. . .Lots of firms have made the changes, and I think the clear courting of AMD to the open source market maybe is a sign. Your insight is always valuable, but I think the attempt is worth it. . .I know lots of emails have been pumped out of the OBSD-misc list. Intel and TI are both aware, but the barrages are useful in reminding them. I don't have blind faith in pleading to large corporations. But I also know that just the act of this taking place breaks down some barriers within the open source community. The other firms that have done it weren't monopolies, that is true. But Intel is not some invulnerable empire when it comes to competition. g From steve.rieger Thu Oct 28 11:51:25 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:51:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kern secure level issue Message-ID: I just set my kern secure level to 3, and now fetchmail is not getting, or imap is not picking up my emails does this sound right -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From nycbug Thu Oct 28 11:58:44 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:58:44 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Kern secure level issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028155844.GA44292@florian.hastek.net> Steve Rieger: > I just set my kern secure level to 3, and now fetchmail is not getting, or > imap is not picking up my emails does this sound right If your /var is on another disk it may no longer be able to be written to; some user processes may then fail. PS - I never did it - it always sounds like overkill! Harold From steve.rieger Thu Oct 28 12:50:34 2004 From: steve.rieger (Steve Rieger) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:50:34 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Kern secure level issue In-Reply-To: <20041028155844.GA44292@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: This is my rc.conf file would anything here disable me from connecting via imap inetd_enable="NO" portmap_enable="YES" kern_securelevel_enable="YES" kern_securelevel="1" nfs_reserved_port_only="YES" sendmail_enable="NONE" sshd_enable="YES" #usbd_enable="YES" linux_enable=YES clear_tmp_enable="YES" icmp_drop_redirect="YES" icmp_log_redirect="YES" log_in_vain="YES" accounting_enable="YES" ifconfig_fxp0="inet 10.20.2.206 netmask 255.255.0.0" defaultrouter="10.20.0.1" hostname="xxxxxxxxxx" ifconfig_fxp0_alias0="10.20.2.207 netmask 0xffffffff" nagios_enable=YES Also another question Am running freevrrpd on 10.20.2.206 When the failover box takes that ip certain monitoring tools that will only respond to .206 will not update the failover server, because the ip addy is not binded (or is it bound) to the server. Any insights > Steve Rieger: >> I just set my kern secure level to 3, and now fetchmail is not getting, or >> imap is not picking up my emails does this sound right > > If your /var is on another disk it may no longer be able to be > written to; some user processes may then fail. PS - I never did it - > it always sounds like overkill! > > Harold > > > -- Steve Rieger Ext; 1131 Cell 646-335-8915 DC 173*101254*4 From satadru Thu Oct 28 16:14:59 2004 From: satadru (satadru pramanik) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:14:59 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media Message-ID: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> Hey guys, quick question... I dunno how many OpenBSD afficionados are on this list that happened to order the CDs in anticipation of the next release, but you've got at least one. If there are any others... Have you received your CDs? I need to use an OpenBSD cd for a router install TOMORROW, and I'd rather not install 3.5 since 3.6 is days away from a release. My order went out much earlier in the month, and I was hoping it would have shipped by now, but it hasn't. If one of you has received your copies of the CDs, is there any chance one of you could message me privately about getting a copy of the CD? I really only need the first disk, so an image I could burn would suffice (or just one made from the i386 install folder.) If any of you are in Manhattan, I could even stop by and pick up a copy today or tomorrow morning. In other news, are there any stores in Manhattan that carry 3.6 yet? I checked J&R (as reported on the openbsd web site) but they only carry linux... Regards, Satadru From chrisc Thu Oct 28 16:24:45 2004 From: chrisc (Chris Coleman) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media In-Reply-To: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> References: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> Message-ID: <20041028132417.V13595@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Hi, I just shipped OpenBSD 3.6 to all the subscribers of BSDMall.com -Chris On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, satadru pramanik wrote: > Hey guys, quick question... I dunno how many OpenBSD afficionados are > on this list that happened to order the CDs in anticipation of the > next release, but you've got at least one. > > If there are any others... Have you received your CDs? > > I need to use an OpenBSD cd for a router install TOMORROW, and I'd > rather not > install 3.5 since 3.6 is days away from a release. > > My order went out much earlier in the month, and I was hoping it would > have shipped by now, but it hasn't. If one of you has received your > copies of the CDs, is there any chance one of you could message me > privately about getting a copy of the CD? I really only need the first > disk, so an image I could burn would suffice (or just one made from the > i386 install folder.) > > If any of you are in Manhattan, I could even stop by and pick up a copy > today or tomorrow morning. > > In other news, are there any stores in Manhattan that carry 3.6 yet? > > I checked J&R (as reported on the openbsd web site) but they only carry > linux... > > Regards, > > Satadru > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From rick Thu Oct 28 16:30:48 2004 From: rick (Rick Aliwalas) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media In-Reply-To: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> References: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, satadru pramanik wrote: > Hey guys, quick question... I dunno how many OpenBSD afficionados are > on this list that happened to order the CDs in anticipation of the > next release, but you've got at least one. > > If there are any others... Have you received your CDs? > > I need to use an OpenBSD cd for a router install TOMORROW, and I'd rather not > install 3.5 since 3.6 is days away from a release. You could install a snapshot from a mirror. -rick > > My order went out much earlier in the month, and I was hoping it would have > shipped by now, but it hasn't. If one of you has received your copies of the > CDs, is there any chance one of you could message me privately about getting > a copy of the CD? I really only need the first disk, so an image I could > burn would suffice (or just one made from the i386 install folder.) > > If any of you are in Manhattan, I could even stop by and pick up a copy today > or tomorrow morning. > > In other news, are there any stores in Manhattan that carry 3.6 yet? > > I checked J&R (as reported on the openbsd web site) but they only carry > linux... > > Regards, > > Satadru > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From pete Thu Oct 28 17:05:21 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:05:21 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media In-Reply-To: <20041028132417.V13595@ithildin.daemonnews.org> References: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> <20041028132417.V13595@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Message-ID: <41815F11.9030900@nomadlogic.org> Chris Coleman wrote: >Hi, > >I just shipped OpenBSD 3.6 to all the subscribers of BSDMall.com > > > woo hoo thanks chris!! -p From mlists Thu Oct 28 17:10:11 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:10:11 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media In-Reply-To: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> References: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> Message-ID: <20041028211011.GM6916@bizintegrators.com> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 04:14:59PM -0400, satadru pramanik wrote: > Hey guys, quick question... I dunno how many OpenBSD afficionados are > on this list that happened to order the CDs in anticipation of the > next release, but you've got at least one. Pre-ordered the second day it was announced, I think it was August 27th. > > If there are any others... Have you received your CDs? Not yet. From personal experience, either my luck is bad, or CDs coming to New York area are slow to arrive. > > I need to use an OpenBSD cd for a router install TOMORROW, and I'd > rather not > install 3.5 since 3.6 is days away from a release. > > My order went out much earlier in the month, and I was hoping it would > have shipped by now, but it hasn't. If one of you has received your > copies of the CDs, is there any chance one of you could message me > privately about getting a copy of the CD? I really only need the first > disk, so an image I could burn would suffice (or just one made from the > i386 install folder.) Chances are very small, but I might have a recent snapshot, from september, at home somewhere. Can't check from here, but I can check tonight and if you're interested I can burn it on a CD and give it to you tomorrow in Manhattan. With snapshot you can cvs sync to -stable pretty fast. I don't guarantee that the CD will be bootable. :) > > If any of you are in Manhattan, I could even stop by and pick up a copy > today or tomorrow morning. > > In other news, are there any stores in Manhattan that carry 3.6 yet? Probably not. From satadru Thu Oct 28 17:24:09 2004 From: satadru (satadru pramanik) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:24:09 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] good place to buy NICS Message-ID: Does anybody know where I can pick up an intel etherexpress type card in the city? I've heard time and time again that they are the most recommended cards for OpenBSD. I've checked the local superstores, and they only seem the have the standard dlink/linksys type stuff. Satadru From george Thu Oct 28 17:45:02 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:45:02 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux - 9083 - xanthan Message-ID: <9F6D5FA8-292A-11D9-8DCA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> fyi. . .for those interested. . . Begin forwarded message: > From: petitions at petitiononline.com (PetitionOnline) > Date: October 28, 2004 4:33:39 PM EDT > To: George > Subject: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under > Linux - 9083 - xanthan > Reply-To: forceflow2 at sc.rr.com > > Dear George, > > This email message is sent to you from PetitionOnline.com to confirm > your signature as "George" on the online petition: > > "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" > > hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: > > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ > > Your signature on the petition is already complete, and there is no > need > to reply to this message. > > Your signature number for this petition is 9083. > > At PetitionOnline.com, we host the petition you've signed, but we > didn't > create it. If you would like to comment on the petition, you can > contact > the author of the petition by email, at: > > Bradley Mcalister, forceflow2 at sc.rr.com > > > -- * -- > Please contribute $1.00 or more and help maintain PetitionOnline.com as > a premiere free speech forum. Your contribution is completely > voluntary -- > and generous support from visitors like you is what keeps > PetitionOnline > going! Contributing is quick, easy, private, and secure, directly to > PetitionOnline.com: > https://artifice.securesites.com/cgi-bin/support_petitiononline.cgi > > or with PayPal, including international currencies and eChecks: > https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ > business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_shipp > ing=1&cn=Comments > > or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: > https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV > -- * -- > > > If you would like to help some more to support the cause of this > petition, it would be great to take a moment now and send a quick email > message to let some friends and allies know about it. > > Here's some text you can just copy and paste into your own email > message > to help spread the word about this petition: > > + --------- copy from here --------- + > > Dear Friends, > > I have just read and signed the online petition: > > "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" > > hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition > service, at: > > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ > > I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might > agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and > consider > signing yourself. > > Best wishes, > > George > > + --------- down to here ---------- + > + paste into your own email, & send + > > > A note along those lines, sent from you to your friends, can make an > especially effective contribution to the petition. A successful > petition is a grassroots collaborative effort, and now it's your turn. > The power of the Internet is in your hands -- so spread the word! > > Note, however, that in helping to promote this petition you are > expressly prohibited from sending unsolicited bulk mail messages > ("junk mail" or "spam"). This includes, but is not limited to, > bulk-mailing of commercial advertising, information announcements, and > political tracts. Such material may only be sent to those who have > specifically requested it. > > Confirmation in Error? > > On the other hand, if you believe you have received this confirmation > of > signature in error, and, if you received the email _directly_ from > PetitionOnline.com, then please forward THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE, with > a brief explanation, to: > > support at PetitionOnline.com > > An erroneous signature confirmation is most often caused by a > typographic error by a legitimate signer. With millions of email > addresses on the internet, there are very many addresses that are only > one letter apart. However, an erroneous signature confirmation could > also be caused by abuse of the petition system, so all confirmation > errors will be investigated carefully. > > By the way, we don't keep any email distribution lists associated with > petition signers at PetitionOnline.com, so there is never any mail > list here you'd need to be unsubscribed from. > > We honor you for the courage of your convictions. And we thank you > for participating in the free and open expression of public opinion. > > Best wishes, > > Kevin Matthews > Director > PetitionOnline.com > > > Notice: (The lawyers make us say this) > > www.PetitionOnline.com provides free hosting of public petitions for > responsible public advocacy. There is NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED > ENDORSEMENT OF THIS PETITION or other hosted petitions by Artifice, > Inc. or our sponsors. > > http://www.PetitionOnline.com > > It's quick and easy. Create your own free online petition today at > www.PetitionOnline.com! > > + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > Artifice, Inc. http://www.artifice.com > http://www.GreatBuildings.com > http://www.HomeDesignStore.com > http://www.ArchitectureWeek.com > 541.345.7421 voice . 541.345.7438 fax . Eugene, Oregon, USA > new tools and media for creative living and grassroots democracy > + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > > Privacy Policy: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/privacy-pets.html > > Unsubscribe: > This Signature Confirmation email message is not part of any mailing > list at PetitionOnline.com. It is a one time communication in > response to signing a > petition at PetitionOnline.com. There is simply nothing to > unsubscribe from. > > Contributions to help support PetitionOnline.com are warmly > appreciated via > PayPal in U.S. Dollars, Canadian Dollars, Euros, Pounds Sterling, and > Yen. > PayPal accepts eChecks as well as major credit cards. Contributing is > secure, fast, and easy: > https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ > business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_shipp > ing=1&cn=Comments > > Or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: > https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV > > Or if you prefer to contribute offline, please make checks payable to: > > Artifice, Inc. > PetitionOnline.com > PO Box 1588 > Eugene, OR 97440 > > Thank you! > > + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > > From jesse Thu Oct 28 20:14:45 2004 From: jesse (Jesse Callaway) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:14:45 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux - 9083 - xanthan In-Reply-To: <9F6D5FA8-292A-11D9-8DCA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <9F6D5FA8-292A-11D9-8DCA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <89EDCC82-293F-11D9-B202-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> I think this kind of thing is so stupid. It's not a minor product. It's well worth Intel's while to make a really nice book all about how to program for the Centrino. I can understand if a printer driver or USB gadget might be slow to come to this market, but this is not really in that scope. Everyone agree that there is -only- foul play involved? Is this possible illegal? On Oct 28, 2004, at 5:45 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > fyi. . .for those interested. . . > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: petitions at petitiononline.com (PetitionOnline) >> Date: October 28, 2004 4:33:39 PM EDT >> To: George >> Subject: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under >> Linux - 9083 - xanthan >> Reply-To: forceflow2 at sc.rr.com >> >> Dear George, >> >> This email message is sent to you from PetitionOnline.com to confirm >> your signature as "George" on the online petition: >> >> "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" >> >> hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: >> >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ >> >> Your signature on the petition is already complete, and there is no >> need >> to reply to this message. >> >> Your signature number for this petition is 9083. >> >> At PetitionOnline.com, we host the petition you've signed, but we >> didn't >> create it. If you would like to comment on the petition, you can >> contact >> the author of the petition by email, at: >> >> Bradley Mcalister, forceflow2 at sc.rr.com >> >> >> -- * -- >> Please contribute $1.00 or more and help maintain PetitionOnline.com >> as >> a premiere free speech forum. Your contribution is completely >> voluntary -- >> and generous support from visitors like you is what keeps >> PetitionOnline >> going! Contributing is quick, easy, private, and secure, directly to >> PetitionOnline.com: >> >> https://artifice.securesites.com/cgi-bin/support_petitiononline.cgi >> >> or with PayPal, including international currencies and eChecks: >> https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ >> business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_ship >> ping=1&cn=Comments >> >> or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: >> https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV >> -- * -- >> >> >> If you would like to help some more to support the cause of this >> petition, it would be great to take a moment now and send a quick >> email >> message to let some friends and allies know about it. >> >> Here's some text you can just copy and paste into your own email >> message >> to help spread the word about this petition: >> >> + --------- copy from here --------- + >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> I have just read and signed the online petition: >> >> "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" >> >> hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition >> service, at: >> >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ >> >> I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might >> agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and >> consider >> signing yourself. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> George >> >> + --------- down to here ---------- + >> + paste into your own email, & send + >> >> >> A note along those lines, sent from you to your friends, can make an >> especially effective contribution to the petition. A successful >> petition is a grassroots collaborative effort, and now it's your turn. >> The power of the Internet is in your hands -- so spread the word! >> >> Note, however, that in helping to promote this petition you are >> expressly prohibited from sending unsolicited bulk mail messages >> ("junk mail" or "spam"). This includes, but is not limited to, >> bulk-mailing of commercial advertising, information announcements, >> and political tracts. Such material may only be sent to those who >> have specifically requested it. >> >> Confirmation in Error? >> >> On the other hand, if you believe you have received this confirmation >> of >> signature in error, and, if you received the email _directly_ from >> PetitionOnline.com, then please forward THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE, with >> a brief explanation, to: >> >> support at PetitionOnline.com >> >> An erroneous signature confirmation is most often caused by a >> typographic error by a legitimate signer. With millions of email >> addresses on the internet, there are very many addresses that are >> only one letter apart. However, an erroneous signature confirmation >> could also be caused by abuse of the petition system, so all >> confirmation errors will be investigated carefully. >> >> By the way, we don't keep any email distribution lists associated >> with petition signers at PetitionOnline.com, so there is never any >> mail list here you'd need to be unsubscribed from. >> >> We honor you for the courage of your convictions. And we thank you >> for participating in the free and open expression of public opinion. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Kevin Matthews >> Director >> PetitionOnline.com >> >> >> Notice: (The lawyers make us say this) >> >> www.PetitionOnline.com provides free hosting of public petitions for >> responsible public advocacy. There is NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED >> ENDORSEMENT OF THIS PETITION or other hosted petitions by Artifice, >> Inc. or our sponsors. >> >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com >> >> It's quick and easy. Create your own free online petition today at >> www.PetitionOnline.com! >> >> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + >> Artifice, Inc. http://www.artifice.com >> http://www.GreatBuildings.com >> http://www.HomeDesignStore.com >> http://www.ArchitectureWeek.com >> 541.345.7421 voice . 541.345.7438 fax . Eugene, Oregon, USA >> new tools and media for creative living and grassroots democracy >> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + >> >> Privacy Policy: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/privacy-pets.html >> >> Unsubscribe: >> This Signature Confirmation email message is not part of any mailing >> list at PetitionOnline.com. It is a one time communication in >> response to signing a >> petition at PetitionOnline.com. There is simply nothing to >> unsubscribe from. >> >> Contributions to help support PetitionOnline.com are warmly >> appreciated via >> PayPal in U.S. Dollars, Canadian Dollars, Euros, Pounds Sterling, and >> Yen. >> PayPal accepts eChecks as well as major credit cards. Contributing is >> secure, fast, and easy: >> https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ >> business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_ship >> ping=1&cn=Comments >> >> Or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: >> https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV >> >> Or if you prefer to contribute offline, please make checks payable to: >> >> Artifice, Inc. >> PetitionOnline.com >> PO Box 1588 >> Eugene, OR 97440 >> >> Thank you! >> >> + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From nycbug Thu Oct 28 21:14:07 2004 From: nycbug (a nice bug) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:14:07 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Fwd: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux - 9083 - xanthan In-Reply-To: <89EDCC82-293F-11D9-B202-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> References: <9F6D5FA8-292A-11D9-8DCA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <89EDCC82-293F-11D9-B202-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> Message-ID: <20041029011407.GA46487@florian.hastek.net> Jesse Callaway: > .. > Everyone agree that there is -only- foul play involved? Is > this possible illegal? Neither, I think. What law is there that says a company must publicly divulge (let alone publish in book form suitable for engineers) its proprietary designs and methods - none I think but please correct me if I'm wrong. Now, if Intel continues to labor under a disadvantaged business model in order to "protect themselves" then that is another matter! Sometimes it's hard to remember that the Open Source View of the World isn't the only view of the world... Harold > On Oct 28, 2004, at 5:45 PM, G. Rosamond wrote: > > >fyi. . .for those interested. . . > > > >Begin forwarded message: > > > >>From: petitions at petitiononline.com (PetitionOnline) > >>Date: October 28, 2004 4:33:39 PM EDT > >>To: George > >>Subject: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under > >>Linux - 9083 - xanthan > >>Reply-To: forceflow2 at sc.rr.com > >> > >>Dear George, > >> > >>This email message is sent to you from PetitionOnline.com to confirm > >>your signature as "George" on the online petition: > >> > >> "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" > >> > >>hosted on the web by our free online petition service, at: > >> > >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ > >> > >>Your signature on the petition is already complete, and there is no > >>need > >>to reply to this message. > >> > >>Your signature number for this petition is 9083. > >> > >>At PetitionOnline.com, we host the petition you've signed, but we > >>didn't > >>create it. If you would like to comment on the petition, you can > >>contact > >>the author of the petition by email, at: > >> > >> Bradley Mcalister, forceflow2 at sc.rr.com > >> > >> > >> -- * -- > >>Please contribute $1.00 or more and help maintain PetitionOnline.com > >>as > >>a premiere free speech forum. Your contribution is completely > >>voluntary -- > >>and generous support from visitors like you is what keeps > >>PetitionOnline > >>going! Contributing is quick, easy, private, and secure, directly to > >>PetitionOnline.com: > >> > >>https://artifice.securesites.com/cgi-bin/support_petitiononline.cgi > >> > >>or with PayPal, including international currencies and eChecks: > >>https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ > >>business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_ship > >>ping=1&cn=Comments > >> > >>or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: > >> https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV > >> -- * -- > >> > >> > >>If you would like to help some more to support the cause of this > >>petition, it would be great to take a moment now and send a quick > >>email > >>message to let some friends and allies know about it. > >> > >>Here's some text you can just copy and paste into your own email > >>message > >>to help spread the word about this petition: > >> > >> + --------- copy from here --------- + > >> > >>Dear Friends, > >> > >>I have just read and signed the online petition: > >> > >> "Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux" > >> > >>hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition > >>service, at: > >> > >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/xanthan/ > >> > >>I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might > >>agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and > >>consider > >>signing yourself. > >> > >>Best wishes, > >> > >>George > >> > >> + --------- down to here ---------- + > >> + paste into your own email, & send + > >> > >> > >>A note along those lines, sent from you to your friends, can make an > >>especially effective contribution to the petition. A successful > >>petition is a grassroots collaborative effort, and now it's your turn. > >>The power of the Internet is in your hands -- so spread the word! > >> > >>Note, however, that in helping to promote this petition you are > >>expressly prohibited from sending unsolicited bulk mail messages > >>("junk mail" or "spam"). This includes, but is not limited to, > >>bulk-mailing of commercial advertising, information announcements, > >>and political tracts. Such material may only be sent to those who > >>have specifically requested it. > >> > >>Confirmation in Error? > >> > >>On the other hand, if you believe you have received this confirmation > >>of > >>signature in error, and, if you received the email _directly_ from > >>PetitionOnline.com, then please forward THIS ENTIRE MESSAGE, with > >>a brief explanation, to: > >> > >> support at PetitionOnline.com > >> > >>An erroneous signature confirmation is most often caused by a > >>typographic error by a legitimate signer. With millions of email > >>addresses on the internet, there are very many addresses that are > >>only one letter apart. However, an erroneous signature confirmation > >>could also be caused by abuse of the petition system, so all > >>confirmation errors will be investigated carefully. > >> > >>By the way, we don't keep any email distribution lists associated > >>with petition signers at PetitionOnline.com, so there is never any > >>mail list here you'd need to be unsubscribed from. > >> > >>We honor you for the courage of your convictions. And we thank you > >>for participating in the free and open expression of public opinion. > >> > >>Best wishes, > >> > >>Kevin Matthews > >>Director > >>PetitionOnline.com > >> > >> > >>Notice: (The lawyers make us say this) > >> > >>www.PetitionOnline.com provides free hosting of public petitions for > >>responsible public advocacy. There is NO EXPRESS OR IMPLIED > >>ENDORSEMENT OF THIS PETITION or other hosted petitions by Artifice, > >>Inc. or our sponsors. > >> > >> http://www.PetitionOnline.com > >> > >>It's quick and easy. Create your own free online petition today at > >>www.PetitionOnline.com! > >> > >>+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > >> Artifice, Inc. http://www.artifice.com > >> http://www.GreatBuildings.com > >> http://www.HomeDesignStore.com > >> http://www.ArchitectureWeek.com > >> 541.345.7421 voice . 541.345.7438 fax . Eugene, Oregon, USA > >> new tools and media for creative living and grassroots democracy > >>+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > >> > >> Privacy Policy: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/privacy-pets.html > >> > >>Unsubscribe: > >>This Signature Confirmation email message is not part of any mailing > >>list at PetitionOnline.com. It is a one time communication in > >>response to signing a > >>petition at PetitionOnline.com. There is simply nothing to > >>unsubscribe from. > >> > >>Contributions to help support PetitionOnline.com are warmly > >>appreciated via > >>PayPal in U.S. Dollars, Canadian Dollars, Euros, Pounds Sterling, and > >>Yen. > >>PayPal accepts eChecks as well as major credit cards. Contributing is > >>secure, fast, and easy: > >>https://www.paypal.com/xclick/ > >>business=support%40petitiononline.com&item_name=PetitionOnline&no_ship > >>ping=1&cn=Comments > >> > >>Or if you prefer, via the Amazon.com Honor System, online at: > >> https://www.amazon.com/paypage/P3KXN6BPYN3FLV > >> > >>Or if you prefer to contribute offline, please make checks payable to: > >> > >> Artifice, Inc. > >> PetitionOnline.com > >> PO Box 1588 > >> Eugene, OR 97440 > >> > >>Thank you! > >> > >>+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >% NYC*BUG talk mailing list > >http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >%Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > >%We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month From bschonhorst Fri Oct 29 10:13:37 2004 From: bschonhorst (Brad Schonhorst) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:13:37 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD 3.6 media In-Reply-To: <20041028132417.V13595@ithildin.daemonnews.org> References: <0B15BCAB-291E-11D9-8481-000A95EB7FDC@umich.edu> <20041028132417.V13595@ithildin.daemonnews.org> Message-ID: CAN't WAIT!! I've been waiting to move a server of mine until I got the new cd... On Oct 28, 2004, at 4:24 PM, Chris Coleman wrote: > Hi, > > I just shipped OpenBSD 3.6 to all the subscribers of BSDMall.com > > -Chris > > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, satadru pramanik wrote: > >> Hey guys, quick question... I dunno how many OpenBSD afficionados are >> on this list that happened to order the CDs in anticipation of the >> next release, but you've got at least one. >> >> If there are any others... Have you received your CDs? >> >> I need to use an OpenBSD cd for a router install TOMORROW, and I'd >> rather not >> install 3.5 since 3.6 is days away from a release. >> >> My order went out much earlier in the month, and I was hoping it would >> have shipped by now, but it hasn't. If one of you has received your >> copies of the CDs, is there any chance one of you could message me >> privately about getting a copy of the CD? I really only need the >> first >> disk, so an image I could burn would suffice (or just one made from >> the >> i386 install folder.) >> >> If any of you are in Manhattan, I could even stop by and pick up a >> copy >> today or tomorrow morning. >> >> In other news, are there any stores in Manhattan that carry 3.6 yet? >> >> I checked J&R (as reported on the openbsd web site) but they only >> carry >> linux... >> >> Regards, >> >> Satadru >> >> _______________________________________________ >> % NYC*BUG talk mailing list >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists >> %We meet the first Wednesday of the month >> > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > ______________ Brad Schonhorst Network Administrator Village Community School From hans Fri Oct 29 13:25:51 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:25:51 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: MySQL 4.1 at Our Next Meetup Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705536237@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Hey folks, MySQL 4.1 was just released into production, and we're having a meetup to discuss and answer questions, which I'll be moderating. http://mysql.meetup.com/7/ > Your Organizer, Hans Zaunere, sent the following message to the > members of New York City MySQL Meetup Group. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > We're looking forward to a great Meetup on Monday, November > 1st. MySQL folks will be attending to answer your technical > and non-technical questions, and to discuss the new 4.1 > release. There are many great new features in this release, > and here's a primer: > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39171538,00.htm > http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3428201 > > I look forward to meeting everyone at this next meetup. > > Hans Zaunere > MySQL Hope to see everyone there, --- Hans Zaunere, Sales Engineer MySQL, Inc. www.mysql.com Office: +1 212.213.1131 Are you MySQL certified? www.mysql.com/certification From george Fri Oct 29 15:06:39 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:06:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new DN EZine online for October Message-ID: Just in time for October. . the Daemon News EZine is online. . . It includes a bunch of stuff, including something from a NYC*BUG member other than me. . . Mr. King. Also, I put in a short piece about the Kirk/Eric meeting. g From lists Fri Oct 29 15:30:52 2004 From: lists (michael) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:30:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD in the news Message-ID: <20041029153052.09a3ad6d@delinux.abwatley.com> It seems the SMP is hot news on ZDNet and ONLAMP. Is this an OpenBSD media blitz?! A pre-launch hooplah?! http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39171948,00.htm http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/10/28/openbsd_3_6.html The daemons should come out all year.. not just halloween! -- --- From mikel.king Fri Oct 29 16:04:12 2004 From: mikel.king (Mikel King) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:04:12 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new DN EZine online for October In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4182A23C.8040005@ocsny.com> Thanks for the vote of confidence George... Guys as always there are some really good articles in it. I feel very priviliged to have been able to read through it a bit while it was being put together, although I haven't quite gotten the hang of the whole zdesk thingie yet. I certainly hope everyone gives it a good read. Cheers, m! From pete Fri Oct 29 16:10:07 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:10:07 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] new DN EZine online for October In-Reply-To: <4182A23C.8040005@ocsny.com> References: <4182A23C.8040005@ocsny.com> Message-ID: <4182A39F.4040006@nomadlogic.org> Mikel King wrote: > Thanks for the vote of confidence George... > > Guys as always there are some really good articles in it. I feel very > priviliged to have been able to read through it a bit while it was > being put together, although I haven't quite gotten the hang of the > whole zdesk thingie yet. I certainly hope everyone gives it a good read. > hey i have a question about the ezine v. the print edition. do all articles that appear online make to the print edition? just curious, and waiting in anticipation for my first issue of the print edition to arrive. -pete > > Cheers, > m! > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month From bob Sat Oct 30 14:45:39 2004 From: bob (Bob Ippolito) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:45:39 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] NSA recommendations for securing Mac OS X 10.3 (client) Message-ID: I took a look at this yesterday, it's good stuff... although I wouldn't physically disable half the hardware in my powerbook :) http://www.pycs.net/bbum/2004/10/28/#200410281 -bob From george Sat Oct 30 15:38:52 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:38:52 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] New BSD User Group in Rochester Message-ID: <5418947E-2AAB-11D9-8F1C-000D9328615E@sddi.net> For those interested and in that neck of the woods: from http://balius.com/bsduroc/ BSD Users of Rochester (BSDuROC) At the moment I am trying to get a ground formed. I use BSD (OpenBSD, MAC OS X) everyday and there must be others in the area that either do the same or are interested in learning more. For now this "group" is just a mailing list (http://lists.balius.com/) but hopefully someday enough people will be interested and meetings will happen. g From george Sat Oct 30 18:27:40 2004 From: george (George Georgalis) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:27:40 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] need badblocks, bad disk check program Message-ID: <20041030222740.GA21241@sta> There is a program on DragonFlyBSD to write/read test a disk for errors. Anybody know what it is? // George -- George Georgalis, systems architect, administrator Linux BSD IXOYE http://galis.org/george/ cell:646-331-2027 mailto:george at galis.org From louis Sat Oct 30 21:50:51 2004 From: louis (Louis Bertrand) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 21:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Re: Fwd: Signature Confirmation - Intel Support of Centrino Under Linux - 9083 - xanthan In-Reply-To: <20041029011407.GA46487@florian.hastek.net> References: <9F6D5FA8-292A-11D9-8DCA-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <89EDCC82-293F-11D9-B202-000A95BD8054@theholymountain.com> <20041029011407.GA46487@florian.hastek.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, a nice bug wrote: > > Jesse Callaway: > > .. > > Everyone agree that there is -only- foul play involved? Is > > this possible illegal? > > Neither, I think. What law is there that says a company must > publicly divulge (let alone publish in book form suitable for > engineers) its proprietary designs and methods - none I think but > please correct me if I'm wrong. > > Now, if Intel continues to labor under a disadvantaged business > model in order to "protect themselves" then that is another matter! > > Sometimes it's hard to remember that the Open Source View of the > World isn't the only view of the world... > > Harold > Intel's dominance of the market is due to aggressive marketing and advanced IC processing techology that can deliver small geometries and fast devices. It's silly to claim that concealing an ABI will make or break the company. Ciao --Louis From lists Sat Oct 30 19:05:00 2004 From: lists (Az) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:05:00 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] change sendmail port from 25 to something else Message-ID: <41841E1C.8050304@experiencedstudents.com> Hi All i wanted to run sendmail on some other port than 25 since optimumonline blocks it , and i dont want to use their relay to send my emails. how do i change the sendmail port ? where do i have to look for it ? thanx Az From pete Sat Oct 30 23:08:44 2004 From: pete (Pete Wright) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:08:44 -0700 Subject: [nycbug-talk] change sendmail port from 25 to something else In-Reply-To: <41841E1C.8050304@experiencedstudents.com> References: <41841E1C.8050304@experiencedstudents.com> Message-ID: <4184573C.5050209@nomadlogic.org> Az wrote: > Hi All > i wanted to run sendmail on some other port than 25 since > optimumonline blocks it , and i dont want to use their relay to send > my emails. > how do i change the sendmail port ? > where do i have to look for it ? one thing to do that may be a little less complex would be to setup a firewall rule to move requests originating from port 25 on the LAN to another port on the external interface. if you don't have a firewall you can config to do this (like pf) then i'd imagine the sendmail man page would be the best place to start. -p > thanx > Az > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- ~~oO00Oo~~ Peter Wright pete at nomadlogic.org www.nomadlogic.org/~pete 917.415.9866 From mlists Sun Oct 31 01:56:25 2004 From: mlists (mlists at bizintegrators.com) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:56:25 -0400 Subject: [nycbug-talk] change sendmail port from 25 to something else In-Reply-To: <41841E1C.8050304@experiencedstudents.com> References: <41841E1C.8050304@experiencedstudents.com> Message-ID: <20041031055625.GB6916@bizintegrators.com> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 11:05:00PM +0000, Az wrote: > Hi All > i wanted to run sendmail on some other port than 25 since optimumonline > blocks it , and i dont want to use their relay to send my emails. > how do i change the sendmail port ? > where do i have to look for it ? http://www.sendmail.org/faq/section3.html#3.39 From ike Sun Oct 31 11:36:33 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:36:33 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thanks from NYC BSD User Group Message-ID: <0697079E-2B5B-11D9-AF60-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hello Kirk, Eric, We, the NYC *BSD Users Group, took a collection to send you a small gift, to express our appreciation for both of you taking your time to speak while in NYC! People really had a great time at the event, and both of your lectures have generated *considerable* buzz and discussion in the NY technical communities. You are both welcome anytime here in NYC, and we'd love to see you both come back! -- We know you both are wine collectors, so a $100 gift certificate for WINE.COM should arrive in the mail this week, as well as a package containing 2 of these wine bags, (the only unique NY/Wine item we could come up with): http://builtny.com/2btote.php On behalf of every NYC*BUG member, and the greater NY technical community, best wishes and thank you both! .ike -- ps- the packages were sent to the Berkeley address found on Kirk's Consultancy page, I hope that's ok: http://www.mckusick.com/consultancy.html From ike Sun Oct 31 11:45:55 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:45:55 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Thanks from NYC BSD User Group In-Reply-To: <0697079E-2B5B-11D9-AF60-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> References: <0697079E-2B5B-11D9-AF60-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <55A1D4B8-2B5C-11D9-AF60-000D9368D406@lesmuug.org> Hi All, On Oct 31, 2004, at 11:36 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > -- > We know you both are wine collectors, so a $100 gift certificate for > WINE.COM should arrive in the mail this week, as well as a package > containing 2 of these wine bags, (the only unique NY/Wine item we > could come up with): > http://builtny.com/2btote.php I just wanted to give a quick shout out and thank everyone who donated for the thank-you gift here! I know it's not like we're all flowing with dot-com cash or whatever these days, so it's really cool that we could pull this off as a group. Rocket- .ike From ike Sun Oct 31 13:08:56 2004 From: ike (Isaac Levy) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:08:56 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: MySQL 4.1 at Our Next Meetup In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705536237@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705536237@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: Hi Hans, Hey man- I wanna' come! Where do I go, what do I need? Rocket- .ike On Oct 29, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote: > > Hey folks, > > MySQL 4.1 was just released into production, and we're having a meetup > to discuss and answer questions, which I'll be moderating. > > http://mysql.meetup.com/7/ > >> Your Organizer, Hans Zaunere, sent the following message to the >> members of New York City MySQL Meetup Group. >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> We're looking forward to a great Meetup on Monday, November >> 1st. MySQL folks will be attending to answer your technical >> and non-technical questions, and to discuss the new 4.1 >> release. There are many great new features in this release, >> and here's a primer: >> >> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39171538,00.htm >> http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3428201 >> >> I look forward to meeting everyone at this next meetup. >> >> Hans Zaunere >> MySQL > > > Hope to see everyone there, > > > --- > Hans Zaunere, Sales Engineer > MySQL, Inc. www.mysql.com > Office: +1 212.213.1131 > > Are you MySQL certified? > www.mysql.com/certification > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > From hans Sun Oct 31 13:44:30 2004 From: hans (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:44:30 -0800 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FW: MySQL 4.1 at Our Next Meetup Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8705536958@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > Hi Hans, > > Hey man- I wanna' come! Where do I go, what do I need? Sweet... The Meetup starts at 7:00 PM, tomorrow, November 1st, at: Dip 416 3rd Ave (Btw 29th & 30th) New York, NY 10016 Don't need to bring anything; just questions and stuff you want to discuss. Hope to see a gang of you folks there. If you do plan on coming, please RSVP at http://mysql.meetup.com/7/ so that we can arrange chairs, etc. for enough people. H > > Hey folks, > > > > MySQL 4.1 was just released into production, and we're having a meetup > > to discuss and answer questions, which I'll be moderating. > > > > http://mysql.meetup.com/7/ > > > >> Your Organizer, Hans Zaunere, sent the following message to the > >> members of New York City MySQL Meetup Group. > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> We're looking forward to a great Meetup on Monday, November > >> 1st. MySQL folks will be attending to answer your technical > >> and non-technical questions, and to discuss the new 4.1 > >> release. There are many great new features in this release, > >> and here's a primer: > >> > >> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39171538,00.htm > >> http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3428201 > >> > >> I look forward to meeting everyone at this next meetup. > >> > >> Hans Zaunere > >> MySQL > > > > > > Hope to see everyone there, > > > > > > --- > > Hans Zaunere, Sales Engineer > > MySQL, Inc. www.mysql.com > > Office: +1 212.213.1131 > > > > Are you MySQL certified? > > www.mysql.com/certification > > > > _______________________________________________ > > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month > > From george Sun Oct 31 15:58:28 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:58:28 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soekris 4801 and OBSD 3.6 Message-ID: <9D662B0C-2B7F-11D9-B111-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Anyone have a kernel file that works for OBSD 3.6 and Soekris 4801. . .? I starting making some adjustments while comparing the GENERIC 3.6 kernel and the Soekris kernels I found around, but it seems beyond the mere basic stuff in my skill set with kernel hacking. I dealt with the bios and NMBCLUSTERS problems. . .but there seems to be a bit more. All googling has produced is OBSD 3.5 kernels, and checked both Soekris-tech and OBSD misc. Any insight would be appreciated. . . g From okan Sun Oct 31 16:03:18 2004 From: okan (Okan Demirmen) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:03:18 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soekris 4801 and OBSD 3.6 In-Reply-To: <9D662B0C-2B7F-11D9-B111-000D9328615E@sddi.net> References: <9D662B0C-2B7F-11D9-B111-000D9328615E@sddi.net> Message-ID: <20041031210318.GB37158@yinaska.pair.com> On Sun 2004.10.31 at 15:58 -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: > Anyone have a kernel file that works for OBSD 3.6 and Soekris 4801. . .? uhm, I use GENERIC without any issues. in the past i made smaller kernels and such, but with the last 2 releases (3.5, 3.6 and of course -current) everything works and my flash is big enough (128) to hold a default install. - plus it's got all the cool things by default (gpio, etc)... unless you want to hack, i'd say use GENERIC ;) > I starting making some adjustments while comparing the GENERIC 3.6 > kernel and the Soekris kernels I found around, but it seems beyond the > mere basic stuff in my skill set with kernel hacking. I dealt with the > bios and NMBCLUSTERS problems. . .but there seems to be a bit more. 3.6 pulled NMBCLUSTERS out for various reasons...it is now a sysctl. > All googling has produced is OBSD 3.5 kernels, and checked both > Soekris-tech and OBSD misc. > > Any insight would be appreciated. . . GENERIC ;) and makes my life easy when upgrading every few weeks with -current. okan > g > > _______________________________________________ > % NYC*BUG talk mailing list > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > %Be sure to check out our Jobs and NYCBUG-announce lists > %We meet the first Wednesday of the month -- Okan Demirmen PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB3670934 PGP-Fingerprint: 226D B4AE 78A9 7F4E CD2B 1B44 C281 AF18 B367 0934 From george Sun Oct 31 16:06:01 2004 From: george (G. Rosamond) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:06:01 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soekris 4801 and OBSD 3.6 In-Reply-To: <20041031210318.GB37158@yinaska.pair.com> References: <9D662B0C-2B7F-11D9-B111-000D9328615E@sddi.net> <20041031210318.GB37158@yinaska.pair.com> Message-ID: On Oct 31, 2004, at 4:03 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > On Sun 2004.10.31 at 15:58 -0500, G. Rosamond wrote: >> Anyone have a kernel file that works for OBSD 3.6 and Soekris 4801. . >> .? > > uhm, I use GENERIC without any issues. in the past i made smaller > kernels and such, but with the last 2 releases (3.5, 3.6 and of > course -current) everything works and my flash is big enough (128) > to hold a default install. - plus it's got all the cool things by > default (gpio, etc)... That's cool. . .my CF card is 128 meg too. . . > > unless you want to hack, i'd say use GENERIC ;) Cool. . .of course that's the *easy* route. . .will use GENERIC for now. . .and do my own messing around with it. . . >> I starting making some adjustments while comparing the GENERIC 3.6 >> kernel and the Soekris kernels I found around, but it seems beyond the >> mere basic stuff in my skill set with kernel hacking. I dealt with >> the >> bios and NMBCLUSTERS problems. . .but there seems to be a bit more. > > 3.6 pulled NMBCLUSTERS out for various reasons...it is now a sysctl. >> All googling has produced is OBSD 3.5 kernels, and checked both >> Soekris-tech and OBSD misc. >> >> Any insight would be appreciated. . . > > GENERIC ;) and makes my life easy when upgrading every few weeks with > -current. > Of course. . .good point Okan. . .I just love the idea of a super scrubbed kernel on the Soekris box, despite the tone about it on OBSD-misc. . . g