[nycbug-talk] WiFi use liability. . .

[Isaac Levy]

Words,

On Apr 21, 2005, at 6:00 PM, George R. wrote:
>> So I've got an opposing view,
> yes, i was baiting *you* on this dot_ike. . .

:P  bring it on friend.

On Apr 21, 2005, at 6:00 PM, George R. wrote:
> Okay . . . . but that's not responding to my point about liability.

Dude, liability my tailfeathers.  What about IP spoofing?

http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1674

And viola, whaddya' know, from the 'Shareware Connection', downloadble 
windows gui software to 'Spoof Ip Address':

http://www.sharewareconnection.com/titles/spoof-ip-address.htm

Ain't that cute?

--
Just to show I'm not just a whiner/complainer, I will throw in a 
solution: IPV6?  Where are we all at with this?  STAND UP MY BROTHA'S 
AND LETS GET OUR BUTTS IN GEAR TO MOVE BEYOND ALL OUR CURRENT BORING 
JUNK!

(perhaps I'll donate space for an IPV6 howto/network-installfest thing 
at my house?  I've got plenty of space...  Like a Lan party, with less 
first person shooter gaming...)

On Apr 21, 2005, at 6:00 PM, George R. wrote:

> And most importantly, in the era of the USA Patriot Act, etc, it 
> really doesn't take much legal precedence to pay for the "sins" of 
> others. . .

Right.  I know offline you can hit me for being hypocritical as I say, 
*THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE AREN'T IN THE RIGHT TO TAKE THIS TO THE STREETS.* 
  Are we Americans, or are we spineless fearful 'patriots'?

> Even think of what's happening to service providers today: someone did 
> X wrong on your network, give us your logs.  Why open yourself up to 
> that scenario?

Whole other discussion there- MANY issues, but one I'll comment on 
here, is to continue to chant *ARE WE AMERICANS OR RAT-FINKS*?

>
> And if you go through that EFF document again on sysadmins and logging 
> at http://www.eff.org/osp/, you'll realize the broadness of the 
> definition of an "Online Service Provider" could probably include you 
> and your open AP.

I fully understand the implications of this issue, and I would then 
argue beyond my idealistic rant above, I'd actually advocate that just 
like logging to /dev/null, (i.e. longrunning discussion about UK 
rules), it's saner to just leave AP's open- as it's ridiculous to find 
the packets that actually went *across* the wires, in a heavily used 
AP- let alone to go back to the IP spoofing issues...

The really dangerous crackers, the ones who'll get the feds knocking on 
your door, are well beyond all this kids-play we're discussing here- 
and none of this kind of lockdown will help.  (Yes, I'm saying the sky 
is  indeed falling- and we gotta relax and live with it.)

--
I gotta say, I'm engaging this issue so hard because it's a discussion 
I explicitly do *not* want to be having in 2 years- I'm advocating we 
all move on, open our AP's, and quit wasting time with cruddy HARDWARE 
VAPORWARE- and we all grow up to IPV6, which would enable mass-scale 
mesh topologies to emerge quickly, become practical, and take us all 
into new territory and *USES* for all this connectivity...

Rocket-
.ike