[nycbug-talk] Verizon Woes got you down?

Isaac Levy ike
Tue Dec 20 14:43:16 EST 2005


On Dec 20, 2005, at 2:13 PM, George R. wrote:

>> Yep- but the Europeans actually have laws that protect and cover  
>> more abstract personal civil liberties, (things that reduce the  
>> meme-attacks of advertising, for example... in America we don't  
>> even begin to deal with such things [perhaps based on our  
>> religious, absolutist hanging-on to 19th century scientific  
>> idealism])...
> speaking of abstract!  Laws don't drop out of the sky, and the  
> intense deregulation of the late 70's and early 80's in the US  
> (airlines, trucking, telecom) concretely killed the innovation of  
> Bell Labs.  Nothing about abstract laws.  I mean, most people in  
> the US make the converse case by pointing to the Bill of Rights in  
> the US. . . how funny, but equally nonsensical.

Well, the Bill of Rights, as defined by the fella's who wrote it, is  
designed to serve our interpertations;

- Bill of Rights could be applied to let advertisers post mind- 
numbing chatter on the subways
- Bill of Rights could be applied to protect me from dealing with  
mind-numbing chatter of advertisement on the subway
(it's all moot since the subway is offline today)

Another (more relevant?) Read:
- Bill of Rights could be used to protect private or regulated telco  
industries, to let them provide service as they see fit- (it's their  
business, they can provide what they wish)
- Bill of Rights could be used to protect consumers/citizens from  
private or regulated companies manipulating, influencing, or  
otherwise being the gatekeepers for common infrastructure which  
society has come to rely on

That's what I meant by abstract stuff.

>> What I'm saying is that we don't respect abstract mental/ 
>> conceptual/meme space much in America, so it doesn't surprise me  
>> that people elsewhere do this stuff better...
> And did those of us who are euro-americans lose that gene in the  
> atlantic somewhere?!? :-'

Historically, we perhaps lost it in our quest to escape the  
repressive social and spiritual 'abstracts' which came to apparently  
oppress many of the people who came here...  I'm not arguing that our  
religious scientific faith is necessarily a bad thing, just stating  
that it's where we're at...

So with all of that; Who are the consumers?  Why are we consuming?   
Why are we not filtering the poison they are spooning? (Perhaps  
because it can't be easily quantified?)

> I strongly disagree. . . but it's hard to argue with you since  
> you're speaking in grand abstractions, and not about concrete things.

Exactly my point Gman.

> Ask your jail buddy in Warsawa about abstract space in the Polish  
> economy.  Do you think European firms somehow put Enlightenment  
> principles above their profit margins?  LOL

Not what I'm saying- but they do apparently have better mobile  
service and options in Warsawa than NYC.

>> /me ponders the devaluation of my own .02?
> Well, that will still buy us each a pack of cigarettes in NC.
> g

LOL- it'll buy us each a carton, if the US telcos continue to stifle  
overall business and individual growth, if they continue with  
Trollish, Trollbridge business practices.

It's not until the GDP takes a 'quantifiable' hit that we'll do  
something about this in the US, reinforcing my point.  (Many  
Americans don't stop eating too much McDonalds until they get heart  
disease or something and they have to, so whatever...)

But it's America, I guess I'll hit RadioShack.com and build my own  
darned cellphone, go to HomeDepot.com and build my own personal cell  


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