[nycbug-talk] (no subject)

Marc Spitzer mspitzer at gmail.com
Mon Jul 16 02:20:43 EDT 2007

On 7/15/07, Jonathan Vanasco <nycbug-list at 2xlp.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 2007, at 9:56 PM, Marc Spitzer wrote:
> > It is part of defense in depth.  Face it people screw up all the time,
> > myself included, and having having 2 ways to be "safe" is better then
> > 1.  Also things like -3 TV's should be checked by unit tests before it
> > ever gets to production.  I think that most problems are caused by a
> > lack of discipline not ignorance or malice.  Especially when deadline
> > loom people can be pressured into doing things that may be less then
> > good.
> As long as it is a backup, and not relied upon, its fine.  once you
> introduce it as something peopel rely on, it makes for bad coding.
> since you're also introducing something that is standardized here,
> you also start opening yourself up to new security holes-- and you
> have hackers not only looking to exploit your webapp, but mod_sec or
> whatever other standard firewall app they figure you're running and
> can look for known exploits on.
> those apps are great to bolster a strong defense, but as the only
> defense its irresponsible.

I think I did mention unit tests.  But you only test, and code for,
things you think can happen.  And things that can not happen happen
all the time in computers.  The question is how much paranoia is
prudent and that is something that changes from person to person and
project to project.

I also did not say they were the only defense just that it should be
added to the existing defenses.  The idea that you will not have
exploitable code in your system is foolish, web servers have bugs
after all.  What you will have is code that you think is safe, good
code/app/webserver *and* properly configured, but sooner or later you
will find out you were wrong or you wont find out which could be much
worse.  And yes firewalls have had exploitable code also.  But the
Idea is to have a layered defense here and I have just recommended
adding a layer not lessing the other layers.

Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus

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