[nycbug-talk] (I hate IPv6!) - Thread Fork

Isaac Levy ike at lesmuug.org
Fri Mar 23 19:40:55 EDT 2007

Wordup Chris, All,

On Mar 23, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Chris Buechler wrote:

> Isaac Levy wrote:
>>> I think all you said above pretty much proves my point -
>>> a) ipv6 not ready for prime time
>>> b) nobody gives a damn about v6
>> Alex, you've inspired me to fork this whole topic to a different
>> thread.  This is not a joke.
>> Seriously speaking here, what do you see as the largest problems to
>> the US getting wired and up to speed with IPv6?  Why do you think it
>> won't happen anytime soon?
> Speaking from the perspective of the organizations whose networks I  
> run,

Well Stated,

> it won't happen in the foreseeable future because there's no business
> reason to do so. The benefits of IPv6 aren't enough on their own to
> justify the migration, and public IP's are readily available for  
> little
> or no cost. The driver of migration I foresee is increasing cost of
> public IP's. If they do indeed eventually become as scarce as people
> think they will then the cost will go up substantially enough to drive
> the change. None of the several T1 providers I use charge anything for
> public IP's, and will give you up to a /24 at no cost if you can  
> justify
> having it. The local LEC will give you 5 public IP's for $5/month on a
> business DSL account, and the local cable company charges $5/month per
> IP for additional IP's. At those costs, nobody cares about extra IP
> space because it would take 100+ years of IP charges to equal the cost
> of migrating to IPv6.
> Plus, no ISP around here offers IPv6, probably because they have  
> plenty
> of IPv4 addresses and don't care to deal with the support issues an  
> IPv6
> network would undoubtedly cause. "Local" and "around here" being the
> Louisville KY metro area, nowhere near NYC, but not a hole in the  
> ground
> either with ~1 million people.
> My view is businesses drive IT demand, whether it's an ISP or any  
> other
> sort of vendor or service provider, and businesses won't be pushing  
> for
> IPv6 until the cost of IPv4 is excessive enough to justify the expense
> of conversion. The politics, coolness factor, geek factor, or whatever
> that drives those of you on this list that want IPv6 isn't nearly
> widespread enough to drive any significant change.
> cheers,
> -Chris

Chris, this entire topic has me thinking hard about these issues.  I  
can't concretely persuade 'your organizations' of anything different,  
but I can do something different myself...  so I'll stick mostly to  

While there's no doubt for me that what you, (and Alex, and others)  
are saying here, is right on the mark.  These are precisely the  
reasons behind why a transition is not happening in America.

Your responses are exactly perfect points for me to think through and  
address, insomuch as I believe the business case for IPv6 in America  
is the very opposite- but only after seeing the LIVE IPv6 NETWORKS in  
Japan!  (It's a real shame the dot-com boom hurt us all so badly, but  
I feel like we have to get our asses back up on the horse and ride-  
or we'll never get over it...)

With that, I'm gonna think a lot more about the business case *for*  
IPv6, and exit this thread with these fun quotes:

In the last century or two,

"We will never make a 32-bit operating system, but I'll always love  
     - Bill Gates, unknown date

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously  
considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of  
no value to us."
     - Western Union internal memo, 1876.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"
     - Thomas J. Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943
       (possible misquote) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
     - Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of  
science, 1949

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
     - Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital  
Equipment Corp., 1977

"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."
     - Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".
     - Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872

"Since PDP-11 Unix became operational in February, 1971, over 600  
installations have been put into service."
   - D. M. Ritchie and K. Thompson, 1974, "The UNIX Time-Sharing System"

And one of my favorite network diagrams:

Arpanet, 1969
- running NCP, (replaced 14 years later by the TCP/IP protocol):


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