From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:08:17 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:08:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalation
	alerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780903312019tcbce673w50298ba0ed90660a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780903312019tcbce673w50298ba0ed90660a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312208h10e91aa3p67780b71f2da613@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php

Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
escalation).

The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
get notified).

Cheers,
Brian

P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.

--
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From riegersteve at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:14:37 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Message-ID: <1819642499-1238562895-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-152635938-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.

Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
------Original Message------
From: Brian Gupta
Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
To: NYC BUG
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08

http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php

Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
escalation).

The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
get notified).

Cheers,
Brian

P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.

--
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

From riegersteve at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:15:37 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:15:37 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <1819642499-1238562895-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-copy_sent_folder-1531512609-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1819642499-1238562895-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-copy_sent_folder-1531512609-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <1312409032-1238562957-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-740931005-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Sed s/8/x

--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

-----Original Message-----
From: riegersteve at gmail.com

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37 
To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?


Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.

Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
------Original Message------
From: Brian Gupta
Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
To: NYC BUG
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08

http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php

Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
escalation).

The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
get notified).

Cheers,
Brian

P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.

--
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:20:57 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:20:57 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <1312409032-1238562957-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-740931005-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1819642499-1238562895-cardhu_blackberry.rim.net-copy_sent_folder-1531512609-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<1312409032-1238562957-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-740931005-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312220s116ae0f9tbdaff60626868d9d@mail.gmail.com>

Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
 :(

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sed s/8/x
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>
>
> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>
> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
> To: NYC BUG
> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>
> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>
> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
> escalation).
>
> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
> get notified).
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From riegersteve at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:21:51 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:21:51 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Message-ID: <1218942690-1238563327-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-256942866-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Yes you can

Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
------Original Message------
From: Brian Gupta
To: Steve Rieger
Cc: NYC BUG
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20

Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
 :(

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sed s/8/x
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>
>
> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>
> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
> To: NYC BUG
> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>
> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>
> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
> escalation).
>
> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
> get notified).
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/



--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:27:44 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:27:44 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <1218942690-1238563327-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-256942866-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1218942690-1238563327-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-256942866-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312227t5298c216qa966bc3d96ca972c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks alot! Gonna check it out...  Do you recommend any starting points?

Cheers,
Brian

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes you can
>
> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> To: Steve Rieger
> Cc: NYC BUG
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>
> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
> ?:(
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sed s/8/x
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>
>>
>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>
>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Brian Gupta
>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>> To: NYC BUG
>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>
>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>
>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>> escalation).
>>
>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>> get notified).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brian
>>
>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From riegersteve at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:28:37 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:28:37 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Message-ID: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

What data are you trying to send
Gimme an example
------Original Message------
From: Brian Gupta
To: Steve Rieger
Cc: NYC BUG
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:27

Thanks alot! Gonna check it out...  Do you recommend any starting points?

Cheers,
Brian

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes you can
>
> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> To: Steve Rieger
> Cc: NYC BUG
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>
> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
> ?:(
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sed s/8/x
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>
>>
>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>
>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Brian Gupta
>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>> To: NYC BUG
>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>
>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>
>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>> escalation).
>>
>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>> get notified).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brian
>>
>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/



--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:36:58 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:36:58 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312236t6ba63fcfie7a8a2b064ab6874@mail.gmail.com>

Basically, right now we have both nagios and RT3 send emails to a
sendmail alias that forwards all alerts to all pagers and SMS phones
on my team. (This is pretty annoying for those middle of the night
tickets and alerts, especially since we have an oncall rotation in
place).

An example would be a typical Nagios alert email, or an RT ticket
subject... Do you need actual examples? If so, I can take this off
list.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:28 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> What data are you trying to send
> Gimme an example
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> To: Steve Rieger
> Cc: NYC BUG
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:27
>
> Thanks alot! Gonna check it out... ?Do you recommend any starting points?
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes you can
>>
>> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Brian Gupta
>> To: Steve Rieger
>> Cc: NYC BUG
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>>
>> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
>> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
>> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
>> ?:(
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sed s/8/x
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>
>>>
>>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>>
>>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>>> To: NYC BUG
>>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>>
>>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>>
>>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>>> escalation).
>>>
>>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>>> get notified).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From riegersteve at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:42:08 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:42:08 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780903312236t6ba63fcfie7a8a2b064ab6874@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><5b5090780903312236t6ba63fcfie7a8a2b064ab6874@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <369420218-1238564545-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1254121218-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Here's how I would to this

Zabbix checks for nagios alerts and sends a message to the oncall only (easy to set up)

Take rt out of the notification process and use post mortem to trap solutions.



--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:36:58 
To: <riegersteve at gmail.com>
Cc: NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall 
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?


Basically, right now we have both nagios and RT3 send emails to a
sendmail alias that forwards all alerts to all pagers and SMS phones
on my team. (This is pretty annoying for those middle of the night
tickets and alerts, especially since we have an oncall rotation in
place).

An example would be a typical Nagios alert email, or an RT ticket
subject... Do you need actual examples? If so, I can take this off
list.

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:28 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> What data are you trying to send
> Gimme an example
> ------Original Message------
> From: Brian Gupta
> To: Steve Rieger
> Cc: NYC BUG
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:27
>
> Thanks alot! Gonna check it out... ?Do you recommend any starting points?
>
> Cheers,
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes you can
>>
>> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Brian Gupta
>> To: Steve Rieger
>> Cc: NYC BUG
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>>
>> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
>> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
>> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
>> ?:(
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sed s/8/x
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>
>>>
>>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>>
>>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>>> To: NYC BUG
>>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>>
>>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>>
>>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>>> escalation).
>>>
>>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>>> get notified).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>_______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/

From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 01:50:13 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:50:13 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <369420218-1238564545-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1254121218-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5b5090780903312236t6ba63fcfie7a8a2b064ab6874@mail.gmail.com>
	<369420218-1238564545-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1254121218-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312250y58ee5e29x87e767a1cf698384@mail.gmail.com>

Post mortem? Basically we have clients that have a magic email address
that is guaranteed to get them an oncall engineer any time of day...
Currently that email address feeds into RT, which has a pager alias to
page-all set as a watcher on the emergency queue.

-Brian

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:42 AM,  <riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's how I would to this
>
> Zabbix checks for nagios alerts and sends a message to the oncall only (easy to set up)
>
> Take rt out of the notification process and use post mortem to trap solutions.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com>
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:36:58
> To: <riegersteve at gmail.com>
> Cc: NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
> ? ? ? ?escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>
>
> Basically, right now we have both nagios and RT3 send emails to a
> sendmail alias that forwards all alerts to all pagers and SMS phones
> on my team. (This is pretty annoying for those middle of the night
> tickets and alerts, especially since we have an oncall rotation in
> place).
>
> An example would be a typical Nagios alert email, or an RT ticket
> subject... Do you need actual examples? If so, I can take this off
> list.
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:28 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What data are you trying to send
>> Gimme an example
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Brian Gupta
>> To: Steve Rieger
>> Cc: NYC BUG
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:27
>>
>> Thanks alot! Gonna check it out... ?Do you recommend any starting points?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Brian
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes you can
>>>
>>> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>> To: Steve Rieger
>>> Cc: NYC BUG
>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>>>
>>> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
>>> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
>>> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
>>> ?:(
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sed s/8/x
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>>>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>>>
>>>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>>>> To: NYC BUG
>>>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>>>
>>>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>>>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>>>> escalation).
>>>>
>>>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>>>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>>>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>>>> get notified).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>>
>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>>
>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Wed Apr  1 02:05:56 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 02:05:56 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
	escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780903312250y58ee5e29x87e767a1cf698384@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1804925057-1238563733-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1520479567-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5b5090780903312236t6ba63fcfie7a8a2b064ab6874@mail.gmail.com>
	<369420218-1238564545-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1254121218-@bxe1144.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5b5090780903312250y58ee5e29x87e767a1cf698384@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780903312305l15943517m4cce8b4f56a70022@mail.gmail.com>

Finally found a hack that will work. Basically we need to setup
escalation and rotation in Nagios, and then use this to have RT
tickets create a new Nagios event:
http://wiki.bestpractical.com/view/SendNagiosAlert

-Brian

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com> wrote:
> Post mortem? Basically we have clients that have a magic email address
> that is guaranteed to get them an oncall engineer any time of day...
> Currently that email address feeds into RT, which has a pager alias to
> page-all set as a watcher on the emergency queue.
>
> -Brian
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:42 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's how I would to this
>>
>> Zabbix checks for nagios alerts and sends a message to the oncall only (easy to set up)
>>
>> Take rt out of the notification process and use post mortem to trap solutions.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via Blackberry
>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:36:58
>> To: <riegersteve at gmail.com>
>> Cc: NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall
>> ? ? ? ?escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>
>>
>> Basically, right now we have both nagios and RT3 send emails to a
>> sendmail alias that forwards all alerts to all pagers and SMS phones
>> on my team. (This is pretty annoying for those middle of the night
>> tickets and alerts, especially since we have an oncall rotation in
>> place).
>>
>> An example would be a typical Nagios alert email, or an RT ticket
>> subject... Do you need actual examples? If so, I can take this off
>> list.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:28 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What data are you trying to send
>>> Gimme an example
>>> ------Original Message------
>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>> To: Steve Rieger
>>> Cc: NYC BUG
>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:27
>>>
>>> Thanks alot! Gonna check it out... ?Do you recommend any starting points?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:21 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Yes you can
>>>>
>>>> Its called zabbiz sender, you can send any data to zabbix and have it act based on your triggers
>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>>> To: Steve Rieger
>>>> Cc: NYC BUG
>>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:20
>>>>
>>>> Can I send emails into Zabbix? IE: I can't rip out my entire
>>>> monitoring and ticketing infrastructures to get this functionality, so
>>>> it would have to work as a messaging gateway for what I have in place.
>>>> ?:(
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:15 AM, ?<riegersteve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sed s/8/x
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: riegersteve at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 05:14:37
>>>>> To: Brian Gupta<brian.gupta at gmail.com>; <talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org>; NYC BUG<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to toot my own horn but zabbix has this built in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twill send an sms/email and if the alarm is not ack'd in 8 minutes will escalate
>>>>> ------Original Message------
>>>>> From: Brian Gupta
>>>>> Sender: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org
>>>>> To: NYC BUG
>>>>> Subject: [nycbug-talk] Does anyone know of an open source oncall escalationalerting gateway similar to Telalert?
>>>>> Sent: Mar 31, 2009 22:08
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.mir3.com/Products/TelAlert/index.php
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically we need a messaging gateway that can handle oncall
>>>>> rotations, escalations, and pager, email and sms responses. (To stop
>>>>> escalation).
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea would be to feed alerts from our ticketing and monitoring
>>>>> systems into it, so that everyone doesn't get paged every time there
>>>>> is an event. (and if the primary doesn't respond, others will still
>>>>> get notified).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. - Telalert is ridiculously expensive. IE: $20,000+ for a starter license.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>>>
>>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>>>
>>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>> talk mailing list
>>>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>>
>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via Blackberry
>>> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> - Brian Gupta
>
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/


From carton at Ivy.NET  Wed Apr  1 15:55:43 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:55:43 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] SMIT for OpenSolaris just checked in
Message-ID: <oqprfwrvwg.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

This is fantastic news!  Looks like IBM and Sun cultures can cooperate
after all, to everyone's benefit.  I'm thrilled to have this high
quality IBM software available to a wider audience.

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Topics:
    2009/211 SMIT for OpenSolaris
    SMIT for OpenSolaris [PSARC/2009/211 Self Review]
    [/export/onnv-gate] push
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From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Apr  2 00:39:30 2009
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:39:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun News Roundup
In-Reply-To: <oq4oxn0wns.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
References: <F812BFA6-184C-4EC1-B004-232123034E1B@exit2shell.com>
	<oq63i52yaa.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<692204DA-39F3-4AAB-905F-BEA2BA8608D9@exit2shell.com>
	<oqk56k1bhm.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<9170ABD5-DD81-499B-8339-88C23AF80A03@nomadlogic.org>
	<49c2ca7b.Yu60CU+yajGIXeNc%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<46F034FD-F38B-40FC-8F6D-E82BB5460784@exit2shell.com>
	<oqd4cc120g.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30903201944l7cb28713k52ce28ac6909973@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq4oxn0wns.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30904012139i6774a269geb0736bf1f5b4c5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Miles Nordin <carton at ivy.net> wrote:
>>>>>> "ms" == Marc Spitzer <mspitzer at gmail.com> writes:
>
> ? ?ms> Was not most of the orignal GNU products rebranded BSD, and
> ? ?ms> BSD licenced, tools?
>
> Maybe, but I wasn't aware of it. ?I thought their project started by
> working on some proprietary Unix platform, replacing the tools
> one-by-one. ?Do you have some citation? ?Not that I necessarily agree
> with you it's a problem or some kind of ``hypocricy'' if they did it,
> though.

Umm you were the person arguing intent as something *seperate* as
complying with the letter of the license.  Please argue consistantly
across both sides of the issue.

>
> I just think you're slinging around a lot more than FUD to claim such
> a thing if it's not true. ?Trolling is one thing, but making up
> garbage to get a rise out of someone is something else entirely, so I
> hope you've some reason to believe it, other than you think it might
> piss me off. ?One can't prove a negative, so if this did happen then
> the burden of proof is on you. ?That said, here's the best I could do:

Please provide *proof of malicious intent.*, and while you are at it
please provide some proof that I am at least wrong befor you go
accusing me of doing malicious things.  Just to remind you the two
things I said were definatly rebranded bsd code, flex and bison just
to be clear.

>
> ?http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/bison.git/tree/REFERENCES
>
> ? describes differences between bison and yacc, but does not say one
> ? is based on code from the other. ?It does say it uses a different
> ? algorithm suggesting it was at least rewritten.

Bison two was rewritten Bison1 was rebranded initally.  And swaping
out the algorithim does not mean it is not based on a particular code
base.

>
> ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection#History
> ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.misc/msg/32eda22392c20f98
>
> ? which does say they ``extended'' another compiler, but also says
> ? they rewrote it in C instead of some other Pascal-like language
> ? called Pastel. ?Copyright protects the expression of ideas, not
> ? ideas themselves, so translating from one language into another
> ? should decisively remove any taint that may or may not have existed
> ? on the sources with which they started.
>

GCC was the weakest, as I stated, of my claims.

> so, I'd say it looks pretty unlikely.
>
> Another thing to keep in mind is that ``clean room'' techniques may
> not have been well-known back then, because the problem of rewriting
> source code that you already have, to change it from one license to
> another, was probably not well-known---if you had the code, you kind
> of just did what you liked with it because why-not-seems-reasonable,
> which is how the AT&T lawsuit happened (CSRG and AT&T were both doing
> huge amounts of it).
>

The only thing bsd1 required was a credit where credit was due to
rebrand to gpl.  Now on to my understanding of the ATT lawsuit:
1: AT sued BSDI
2: BSDI said we wrote 4 files and we will defend those, the rest we
got from CSRG with this shiny certificat of not having ATT code in it
and a tape we did not need.
3: CSRG got pulled into the suit
4: they could prove that they did not give out ATT code
5: it was settled and sealed
6: there was a CA FOIR fileds to unseal the judgment and it was
publicly avalable
7: you should go read docs referenced in 6

Now please stop slandering people though your ignorance.


> IIRC Stallman developed cleanroom techniques for reimplementing the
> Lisp Machine work he was doing in crappy, free form (emacs). ?so, if
> anything he was kind of fucking up a LOT less than BSD people of the
> time, giving a lot more respect to the specific copyright on the
> source code he had in his hands.

Please list how the BSD people were not honoring copyright?  And RMS
just did not want to get sued and loose.


>
> ? ?ms> There is no real way to argue that GPLing a BSD project is not
> ? ?ms> a violation of the authors intent.
>
> so, first, for the _text_ of the license itself, obviously it's okay
> with the BSD license to re-release as GPL provided you don't delete
> the BSD restrictions. ?BSD license does not have a problem with the
> _additional restrictions_ imposed by the GPL, even though presumably
> that's what you personally have a problem with. ?While you have no
> problem with releases where you get no source code at all---a view
> which I still cannot understand.

But I am using your definitioin of intent, something other then what
the licences says.  This is in reference to your whining about how Sun
is not honoring the GPLs *intent* while complying with the license.
Can you please stay on one set of definitions durring a converstion.
After all the GPL does not have a problem with *not assinging
copyright to the FSF* after all, although you did rant about *exactly*
that behavior on Suns part.

>
> The problem with living under both sets of restrictions concurrently,
> is GPL will not allow you to redistribute a work subject to
> 4-clause-BSD + GPL at the same time because the advertising clause is
> an ``additional restriction''---a work with both licenses stuck at the
> top becomes as if the work had traditional
> copyright-to-prevent-copying. ?If the original holder of the copyright
> offers it under dual-_either_, BSD or GPL, then a subsequent
> redistributor could pick GPL, remove the ``additional restrictions''
> along with the rest of the BSD license, and release as GPL-only---by
> giving permission to subsequent redistributors to remove BSD whenever
> they like iff they keep GPL, the GPL ``additional restrictions''
> clause becomes happy.

So what you are saying is that the GPL is incompatable with the BSDv1
Licence that was what many of the inital imports, lexx and yacc for
example, were licensed.  ohh my.

>
> But if the original holder released as 4-clause BSD only, as you
> allege was the original source of most GNU tools including gcc, flex,
> and bison, then of course BSD has a problem with deleting the BSD
> license text from the redistributed copy altogether, because it says
> in its text you can't.

I specifically stated flex and yacc yes, gcc could be.


>
> You allege GNU simply removed the BSD copyright. ?Why would they not
> instead alter their license slightly to permit it to coexist with the
> advertising clause? ?Doing so wouldn't have compromised their goals
> (in fact, they DID it with v3), and would have let them *legally* take
> all the BSD work, slap GPL restrictions on it, and continue from
> there. ?They didn't. ?I don't know why not. ?But the fact that they
> didn't suggests they didn't start with BSD source.

One thing to keep in mind was that there is the BSDv2 is effectivly
public domain, ie it removes the advertising clause.  And iff I
remember correctly all the CSRG code was rereleased under v2 if you
wanted to use it.

>
> BUT you're asking me to defend from something slightly different, both
> harder (because it's hazy) and easier (because one can't prove a
> negative), than actual strict compliance with the text: you want the
> _intent_ of the BSD developers.

You were complaining about the intent of the GPL, I just retargeted
your argument.

>
> I'm not sure I have to argue any of this as part of my beef with
> Sun---there's no reason Sun and GNU can't both be wrong. ?Sun doesn't
> lose all their rights to complain about someone doing shifty things
> with the CDDL like ``greenbytes'' might be, or Microsoft trying to
> break Java in exactly the way Sun predicted they would and thus
> violating the license, just because they're themselves being shifty
> with the GPL. ?irc arguing may work that way. ?the Daily News may work
> that way. ?but the world doesn't.

If they are complying with the license they are not being shifty.  But
they do not need to aid the FSF in any way not compelled by said
license.  Are they complying with the license?

>
> Nevertheless I think it would be extremely easy to argue, starting
> with the common intent-statement BSD-license authors make of, ``we
> just want as many people to use our code as possible,'' and next, the
> change to three-clause BSD license from the four-clause, the purpose
> of which was to make it GPLv2 compatible by removing the ``additional
> restriction'' the GPL couldn't accept---almost every BSD author
> contactable agrees to 3-clause and thus implicitly to having their
> work forked as GPL.

I do not see the argument

>
> I guess where your side goes from here, is to point at Theo and say
> ``choice of license doesn't indicate intent with a BSD developer,
> because many of them (a) aren't capable of articulating their intent
> clearly and consistently, and (b) tend to understand licenses rather
> incompletely. ?They say things like `I'm apolitical. ?I just want to
> get work done.' ?'' ?Well, obviously that situation is hard to even
> comprehend, much less debate, but---if the author's intent is, ``I
> want as many people as possible to use my work as long as they're not
> Linux,'' AND if FSF really did start with BSD code which seems pretty
> fucking unlikely, well then, I win again because Linux didn't exist
> back then!

Did I say I have a side?  I just asked a question, sauce for the goos
is sauce for the gander, is it not?

>
> ? ?ms> does not the FSF heavely and massivly misrepresent the word
> ? ?ms> free in their message? ?GPL can not be free as the word is
> ? ?ms> defined in the dictionary,
>
> their core message includes definition of exactly what they mean by
> the word: the ``four essential freedoms.''

As a matter of using the english language we have these rules.  One of
them is that you can not define aq word to mean something that
contradicts its already afreed upon definitions. n In this case the
definition that the FSF contradicst is "without cost or encumberance"
.  The encumberance part kinda shitcans the GPLs claim to be free as
the word is used in the english language.  The FSF lies about it and
its intent, apple/objectiveC is a fairly well known case of where gpl
is definatly not without encumberance, there for not free.


>
> ?http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html
>
> They even take pains to avoid the word free whenever practical because
> of its multiple meanings: using it as ``software freedom'' or
> replacing it with ``libre''. ?If you go look at the actual message
> coming out of FSF, I think it's virtually impossible to make the case
> they're trying to profit from confusion.

they may have cleaned it up since the last time I looked at it,
probably on advice of counsel.

>
> If you're saying, ``I feel like I might have been confused and they
> profited, for like two seconds, five years ago before I started hating
> everything GPL, because here, look!, look at my dictionary,'' well in
> that case I have to agree with you, that might have happened.

My point is not that third parties got screwed by not reading the
license but that they lied in promoting it.

>
> but IIRC my use of the word free was not the FSF's.

But GPL is not free.

marc

>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From nikolai at fetissov.org  Thu Apr  2 10:11:14 2009
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 10:11:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] April 2009 meeting audio
Message-ID: <1cb7998e1565a70ec7189c654cb7bd39.squirrel@geekisp.com>

Folks,

Audio recording of Brian Cully git presentation is online at:
http://www.fetissov.org/public/nycbug/nycbug-04-01-09.mp3

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai




From carton at Ivy.NET  Thu Apr  2 12:06:58 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:06:58 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun News Roundup
In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30904012139i6774a269geb0736bf1f5b4c5d@mail.gmail.com>
	(Marc Spitzer's message of "Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:39:30 -0400")
References: <F812BFA6-184C-4EC1-B004-232123034E1B@exit2shell.com>
	<oq63i52yaa.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<692204DA-39F3-4AAB-905F-BEA2BA8608D9@exit2shell.com>
	<oqk56k1bhm.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<9170ABD5-DD81-499B-8339-88C23AF80A03@nomadlogic.org>
	<49c2ca7b.Yu60CU+yajGIXeNc%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<46F034FD-F38B-40FC-8F6D-E82BB5460784@exit2shell.com>
	<oqd4cc120g.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30903201944l7cb28713k52ce28ac6909973@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq4oxn0wns.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30904012139i6774a269geb0736bf1f5b4c5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oq63hnrqe5.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "ms" == Marc Spitzer <mspitzer at gmail.com> writes:

    ms> the GPL does not have a problem with *not assinging copyright
    ms> to the FSF* after all, although you did rant about *exactly*
    ms> that behavior on Suns part.

no, that is not the Sun behavior about which I complained.  Please
reread more carefully.
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From carton at Ivy.NET  Thu Apr  2 14:10:15 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:10:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun News Roundup
In-Reply-To: <oq63hnrqe5.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET> (Miles Nordin's message of
	"Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:06:58 -0400")
References: <F812BFA6-184C-4EC1-B004-232123034E1B@exit2shell.com>
	<oq63i52yaa.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<692204DA-39F3-4AAB-905F-BEA2BA8608D9@exit2shell.com>
	<oqk56k1bhm.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<9170ABD5-DD81-499B-8339-88C23AF80A03@nomadlogic.org>
	<49c2ca7b.Yu60CU+yajGIXeNc%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<46F034FD-F38B-40FC-8F6D-E82BB5460784@exit2shell.com>
	<oqd4cc120g.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30903201944l7cb28713k52ce28ac6909973@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq4oxn0wns.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30904012139i6774a269geb0736bf1f5b4c5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq63hnrqe5.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <oq1vsbrkoo.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "c" == Miles Nordin <carton at ivy.net> writes:

     c> no, that is not the Sun behavior about which I complained.
     c> Please reread more carefully.

I just reread myself.  I wasn't specific at all, so snipping at Mark
to reread was unfair.

The problem I see when I follow the cooltools link, 

 http://cooltools.sunsource.net/gcc/

is that Sun has split gcc into two pieces, the front and back ends.
They've arranged for the two pieces to be connected to each other by
handing off files in /tmp, to evade the ``linking'' trigger in the GPL
(they disabled -pipe just to be extra careful).  Then they've replaced
the back-end with this Dr. Claw piece of unblushingly proprietary
software: no-source, $0 but no permission to redistribute binaries,
click-wrap garbage about agreeing not to publish benchmarks, u.s.w.

I believe that it *is* legal, and I also like the *function* of the
tool.  But don't like what Sun's done.  Sun is currently trading on a
reputation for creating and supporting open source communities, and
preserving said reputation should require respect for the communities
that create open source and their intent in choosing the licenses that
preserve them, and I think this grabby /tmp-linking trick disrespects
GNU's free software or (for Mark) ``software libre'' licenses, which
are certainly credible enough to deserve said respect, whether it's the
license you choose for your own community or not.
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From matt at atopia.net  Thu Apr  2 19:03:23 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:03:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Box randomly locks up,
	dmesg full of swapzone warnings?
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904021901490.1755@pluto.atopia.net>

Around 5:30 today, one of my FreeBSD boxes randomly locked up and just 
stopped responding to everything: web, ssh, etc..  I haven't been able to 
find the source of the problem yet.  After a hard reboot, I started 
parsing some logs, and came across this:

Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase 
kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto last message repeated 39 times
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase 
kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto last message repeated 81 times
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase 
kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:


If you notice.  They all occured in the same SECOND.  With the repeat 
notices, that's over 100 of the same message in a period of a second. 
Does this mean the box was swapping and at that speciifc point, swap was 
full?

No idea what could cause the box to swap - it runs web and mail.  I'm 
currently looking through some logs (web is next) to see what could have 
possibly happened.

-Matt


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Apr  2 20:13:00 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:13:00 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Box randomly locks up,
	dmesg full of swapzone warnings?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904021901490.1755@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904021901490.1755@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <8CAD05D5-F4DE-4817-978C-F84BE0D2AD7B@nomadlogic.org>


On 2-Apr-09, at 4:03 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> Around 5:30 today, one of my FreeBSD boxes randomly locked up and just
> stopped responding to everything: web, ssh, etc..  I haven't been  
> able to
> find the source of the problem yet.  After a hard reboot, I started
> parsing some logs, and came across this:
>
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase
> kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase  
> kern.maxswzone
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto last message repeated 39 times
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase
> kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase  
> kern.maxswzone
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto last message repeated 81 times
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase
> kern.maxswzoneswap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone
> Apr  2 17:34:25 pluto kernel:
>
>
> If you notice.  They all occured in the same SECOND.  With the repeat
> notices, that's over 100 of the same message in a period of a second.
> Does this mean the box was swapping and at that speciifc point, swap  
> was
> full?
>
> No idea what could cause the box to swap - it runs web and mail.  I'm
> currently looking through some logs (web is next) to see what could  
> have
> possibly happened.
>

hey matt - i remember something similar to this happening to me at one  
point when i got spam'd with some rather large attachments.   
spamassasin ended up eating up a ton of RAM and caused the system to  
start paging out to disk.

not sure if this is your case, but maybe it'll help trouble shoot your  
problem....

-p




From matt at atopia.net  Thu Apr  2 23:38:23 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:38:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Box randomly locks up,
 dmesg full of swapzone warnings?
In-Reply-To: <8CAD05D5-F4DE-4817-978C-F84BE0D2AD7B@nomadlogic.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904021901490.1755@pluto.atopia.net>
	<8CAD05D5-F4DE-4817-978C-F84BE0D2AD7B@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904022337520.50337@pluto.atopia.net>

> hey matt - i remember something similar to this happening to me at one point 
> when i got spam'd with some rather large attachments.  spamassasin ended up 
> eating up a ton of RAM and caused the system to start paging out to disk.
>
> not sure if this is your case, but maybe it'll help trouble shoot your 
> problem....

I bet you that's it.  SpamAssassin uses a ton of resources on my BSD 
boxes.  I always see it at 99% CPU, etc.  Thanks for the heads up!


From bruno at loftmail.com  Fri Apr  3 00:18:10 2009
From: bruno at loftmail.com (Bruno Scap)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:18:10 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Box randomly locks up,
	dmesg full of swapzone warnings?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904022337520.50337@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904021901490.1755@pluto.atopia.net>
	<8CAD05D5-F4DE-4817-978C-F84BE0D2AD7B@nomadlogic.org>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904022337520.50337@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <20090403041810.GA9211@loftmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 11:38:23PM -0400, Matt Juszczak wrote:
> > hey matt - i remember something similar to this happening to me at one point 
> > when i got spam'd with some rather large attachments.  spamassasin ended up 
> > eating up a ton of RAM and caused the system to start paging out to disk.
> >
> > not sure if this is your case, but maybe it'll help trouble shoot your 
> > problem....
> 
> I bet you that's it.  SpamAssassin uses a ton of resources on my BSD 
> boxes.  I always see it at 99% CPU, etc.  Thanks for the heads up!

Ideally you should have spamd procs in RAM (calculate how many you
could fit in by looking with top at their sizes), once they start
swapping they just slow down your server since they never really get
any smaller in size.  To make this work you might have to start
refusing connections (with temp failure) when you reach max # of
spamds, which is also a problem if the load never drops, at which time
you might need another server or more RAM in this one.






From kacanski_s at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  3 19:06:22 2009
From: kacanski_s at yahoo.com (Aleksandar Kacanski)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Accusys ACS-61100 support for Freebsd 7.x
Message-ID: <570779.12159.qm@web53612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi,
I have been looking around for driver support or any work that someone might be doing on Accusys SATA raid cards.
Does anyone knows if there is a way to support this type of hardware on FreeBSD side?
I have a source and binaries for linux 2.6.x kernels.
I am not sure short of hacking source code and trying to compile as native driver on bsd what else is there for me.
I would like to stay with FreeBSD because I think that zfs performs better on BSD than ZFS-fuse.

 --Aleksandar (Sasha) Kacanski



      


From nycbug at cyth.net  Sat Apr  4 03:39:28 2009
From: nycbug at cyth.net (Ray Lai)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 00:39:28 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening Services
Message-ID: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>

http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-services.html

I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!

Thoughts?

-Ray-


From lists at kithalsted.com  Sat Apr  4 04:13:32 2009
From: lists at kithalsted.com (Kit Halsted)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 04:13:32 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening
	Services
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6758E4A0-2E1C-4485-BF19-430422750578@kithalsted.com>

I hate them for the same reasons cited in the article. I tolerated  
them for a while, when I used Eudora for mail & many, many URLs were  
made stupidly long by some horrible IBM/Lotus dynamic server-side  
malware, but now URLs are mostly of a more reasonable length & most  
mail apps can parse even the absurdly long ones.

IMO, they are convenient evils to be tolerated at best.

Cheers,
-Kit
<relurk>

On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:39 AM, Ray Lai wrote:

> http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-services.html
>
> I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
> tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
> services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
> layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Ray-
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



From akosela at andykosela.com  Sat Apr  4 13:33:10 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 19:33:10 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening
 Services
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49d799d6.lhQEPPSkz3AE+0OR%akosela@andykosela.com>

Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:

> http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-services.html
>
> I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
> tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
> services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
> layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!
>
> Thoughts?

Good read.  I never really liked those type of "services".  You don't
have to be a mastermind to conclude that such shortened URLs can take
you to a place where you don't want to go to.

"The most obvious risk associated with URL shortening is that it's
difficult to know where the URL will take you, until you click it. The
true destination of the URL is opaque."

Is there a way to check such URLs before clicking on them?

--Andy


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Apr  4 13:57:28 2009
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 13:57:28 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening
	Services
In-Reply-To: <49d799d6.lhQEPPSkz3AE+0OR%akosela@andykosela.com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d799d6.lhQEPPSkz3AE+0OR%akosela@andykosela.com>
Message-ID: <49D79F88.2090806@ceetonetechnology.com>

Andy Kosela wrote:
> Ray Lai <nycbug at cyth.net> wrote:
> 
>> http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-services.html
>>
>> I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
>> tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
>> services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
>> layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!
>>
>> Thoughts?
> 
> Good read.  I never really liked those type of "services".  You don't
> have to be a mastermind to conclude that such shortened URLs can take
> you to a place where you don't want to go to.
> 
> "The most obvious risk associated with URL shortening is that it's
> difficult to know where the URL will take you, until you click it. The
> true destination of the URL is opaque."
> 
> Is there a way to check such URLs before clicking on them?
> 

wget?  Just a thought.

Can't traceroute a tinyurl.

Yeah, can't argue with the article, and always had my issues with 
tinyurl stuff esp masquerading the actual URL.  Even if it's valid, I'd 
like to know if it's worth my time.  Esp if Ray posts it ;)

But we all know that it has been a 'quick' solution to long sloppy URLs, 
and there's reasons that many people began using tinyurl and similar 
services *because* of technical lists. . .  I mean, even list archive 
links can be very long.

g


From jschauma at netmeister.org  Sat Apr  4 14:28:19 2009
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:28:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL
	Shortening	Services
In-Reply-To: <49d799d6.lhQEPPSkz3AE+0OR%akosela@andykosela.com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
	<49d799d6.lhQEPPSkz3AE+0OR%akosela@andykosela.com>
Message-ID: <20090404182819.GA5173@netmeister.org>

Andy Kosela <akosela at andykosela.com> wrote:
 
> Is there a way to check such URLs before clicking on them?

Most of these services allow for this.  For tinyurl, go to:
http://tinyurl.com/preview.php

-Jan
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From lists at zaunere.com  Sat Apr  4 14:33:39 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 14:33:39 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening
	Services
In-Reply-To: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0e5901c9b553$dfc2fa20$9f48ee60$@com>

> http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-
> services.html

To prevent wrap for future thread followers, here we go:

http://tinyurl.com/dxk943

> I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
> tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
> services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
> layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!
> 
> Thoughts?

unweary needed something to post about.

I especially love the conclusion:

"A hacker or spammer is empowered by using a "benign" URL shortening service
that everyone uses and everyone trusts"

If that's an advantage that hackers/spammers have then I'll sleep easier
tonight.  And by that measure, it's also an advantage most search engines -
like Google - have every time you click a search result.

The fact is a destination URL is dangerous - if we want to continue the
paranoia - whether you know the domain, path, etc. ahead of time or not.

Perhaps a new service would convert the above link to:

tiny.com/er32-unweary.com

So at least the domain is visible.  But then again, that's not really safety
either.

H




From mspitzer at gmail.com  Mon Apr  6 17:44:14 2009
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:44:14 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Sun News Roundup
In-Reply-To: <oq1vsbrkoo.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
References: <F812BFA6-184C-4EC1-B004-232123034E1B@exit2shell.com>
	<9170ABD5-DD81-499B-8339-88C23AF80A03@nomadlogic.org>
	<49c2ca7b.Yu60CU+yajGIXeNc%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<46F034FD-F38B-40FC-8F6D-E82BB5460784@exit2shell.com>
	<oqd4cc120g.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30903201944l7cb28713k52ce28ac6909973@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq4oxn0wns.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<8c50a3c30904012139i6774a269geb0736bf1f5b4c5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<oq63hnrqe5.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<oq1vsbrkoo.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30904061444of5c475ao9a1284556b0224e9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/4/2 Miles Nordin <carton at ivy.net>:
>>>>>> "c" == Miles Nordin <carton at ivy.net> writes:
>
> ? ? c> no, that is not the Sun behavior about which I complained.
> ? ? c> Please reread more carefully.
>
> I just reread myself. ?I wasn't specific at all, so snipping at Mark
> to reread was unfair.
>
> The problem I see when I follow the cooltools link,
>
> ?http://cooltools.sunsource.net/gcc/
>
> is that Sun has split gcc into two pieces, the front and back ends.
> They've arranged for the two pieces to be connected to each other by
> handing off files in /tmp, to evade the ``linking'' trigger in the GPL
> (they disabled -pipe just to be extra careful). ?Then they've replaced
> the back-end with this Dr. Claw piece of unblushingly proprietary
> software: no-source, $0 but no permission to redistribute binaries,
> click-wrap garbage about agreeing not to publish benchmarks, u.s.w.

cool someone finally fixed the deliberate design flaw added into gcc
to maintain ideological purity.  So this is a sauce goose gander
moment.  Now let ten thousand flowers of commercial compilers appear.

>
> I believe that it *is* legal, and I also like the *function* of the
> tool. ?But don't like what Sun's done. ?Sun is currently trading on a
> reputation for creating and supporting open source communities, and
> preserving said reputation should require respect for the communities
> that create open source and their intent in choosing the licenses that
> preserve them, and I think this grabby /tmp-linking trick disrespects
> GNU's free software or (for Mark) ``software libre'' licenses, which
> are certainly credible enough to deserve said respect, whether it's the
> license you choose for your own community or not.

Well that is where we will have to agree to disagree.  The thing is
that I do not see how using the courts to compel good behavior
actually creates a virtuous group of people.  In this matter I think
Sun was morally superior to FSF/GNU in the apple objectiveC front end
incident.  Sun just threw money at a problem to manage business risk,
FSF lied about the terms of their license and then sued over those
terms.  Its free, until you read the fine print/have something we
want.

marc

ps yes apple should have run the license through legal first but that
is not the issue.




>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From dan at langille.org  Wed Apr  8 13:47:26 2009
From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:47:26 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsd.nycbug.org down?
Message-ID: <49DCE32E.3050107@langille.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Folks:

Is freebsd.nycbug.org down?  I ask because I just tried to cvsup and failed.

cheers.

- --
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/
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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Apr  8 14:07:31 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:07:31 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsd.nycbug.org down?
In-Reply-To: <49DCE32E.3050107@langille.org>
References: <49DCE32E.3050107@langille.org>
Message-ID: <3FBBFC5B-056B-4252-B043-558ADA4160D4@nomadlogic.org>


On 8-Apr-09, at 10:47 AM, Dan Langille wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Folks:
>
> Is freebsd.nycbug.org down?  I ask because I just tried to cvsup and  
> failed.
>

hey dan, yea that system locked up a while ago and I don't think it's  
been bounced.  i've updated my sources list to use another server in  
the us until we figure out what happened to freebsd.nycbug.org...

-p


From dan at langille.org  Wed Apr  8 14:51:19 2009
From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:51:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsd.nycbug.org down?
In-Reply-To: <3FBBFC5B-056B-4252-B043-558ADA4160D4@nomadlogic.org>
References: <49DCE32E.3050107@langille.org>
	<3FBBFC5B-056B-4252-B043-558ADA4160D4@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <49DCF227.1020806@langille.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pete Wright wrote:
> On 8-Apr-09, at 10:47 AM, Dan Langille wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Folks:
>>
>> Is freebsd.nycbug.org down?  I ask because I just tried to cvsup and  
>> failed.
>>
> 
> hey dan, yea that system locked up a while ago and I don't think it's  
> been bounced.  i've updated my sources list to use another server in  
> the us until we figure out what happened to freebsd.nycbug.org...

No worries. This hasn't held me up; I went to another server, but
thought I should mention it here.  So... thanks.

- --
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/
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ReAAoP3XIRCcAX7SkCAioPfjFUkWZPKX
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From maddaemon at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 17:22:19 2009
From: maddaemon at gmail.com (maddaemon at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:22:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] The Security Implications of URL Shortening
	Services
In-Reply-To: <0e5901c9b553$dfc2fa20$9f48ee60$@com>
References: <7765c0380904040039p2ceb8ed5ndd9964fbf7e82a22@mail.gmail.com>
	<0e5901c9b553$dfc2fa20$9f48ee60$@com>
Message-ID: <6c1774c50904081422r319f12a6tebc6a03f965cd244@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
>> http://unweary.com/2009/04/the-security-implications-of-url-shortening-
>> services.html
>
> To prevent wrap for future thread followers, here we go:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dxk943
>
>> I post this because some people on this list (*ahem* George) love
>> tinyurl. I never understood why there's so much love for these
>> services. They introduce latency, obfuscate the target, and add a
>> layer of dependency: tinyurl, believe it or not, may go down!
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> unweary needed something to post about.
>
> I especially love the conclusion:
>
> "A hacker or spammer is empowered by using a "benign" URL shortening service
> that everyone uses and everyone trusts"
>
> If that's an advantage that hackers/spammers have then I'll sleep easier
> tonight. ?And by that measure, it's also an advantage most search engines -
> like Google - have every time you click a search result.
>
> The fact is a destination URL is dangerous - if we want to continue the
> paranoia - whether you know the domain, path, etc. ahead of time or not.
>
> Perhaps a new service would convert the above link to:
>
> tiny.com/er32-unweary.com
>
> So at least the domain is visible. ?But then again, that's not really safety
> either.
>
> H
>

Or you can use the preview feature, so you wind up with something like this:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/dxk943

-- 

<insert witty random quote here>


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Apr  8 17:24:37 2009
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:24:37 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] freebsd.nycbug.org down?
In-Reply-To: <49DCF227.1020806@langille.org>
References: <49DCE32E.3050107@langille.org>	<3FBBFC5B-056B-4252-B043-558ADA4160D4@nomadlogic.org>
	<49DCF227.1020806@langille.org>
Message-ID: <49DD1615.2030901@ceetonetechnology.com>

Dan Langille wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Pete Wright wrote:
>> On 8-Apr-09, at 10:47 AM, Dan Langille wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Folks:
>>>
>>> Is freebsd.nycbug.org down?  I ask because I just tried to cvsup and  
>>> failed.
>>>
>> hey dan, yea that system locked up a while ago and I don't think it's  
>> been bounced.  i've updated my sources list to use another server in  
>> the us until we figure out what happened to freebsd.nycbug.org...
> 
> No worries. This hasn't held me up; I went to another server, but
> thought I should mention it here.  So... thanks.
> 

yeah... thanks Dan.

We are discussing this whole setup... and would like to do something 
nice and full.

We need a bunch of decent drives. . . and would like to get official 
cvsup status.

We'll let everyone know on this.

g


From matt at thehour.com  Wed Apr  8 17:14:53 2009
From: matt at thehour.com (Matt Terenzio)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 17:14:53 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Postgres memory usage FreeBSD
Message-ID: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>


Recently added some RAM to a FreeBSD system. Is it likely that I need to
recompile the kernel in order for Postgresql to be able to take advantage of
the extra ram?


 


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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Apr  8 18:17:55 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 15:17:55 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Postgres memory usage FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>
References: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>
Message-ID: <00B4179C-AB27-4183-88EF-385EF2804D46@nomadlogic.org>


On 8-Apr-09, at 2:14 PM, Matt Terenzio wrote:

>
> Recently added some RAM to a FreeBSD system. Is it likely that I  
> need to
> recompile the kernel in order for Postgresql to be able to take  
> advantage of
> the extra ram?
>
>
Hi Matt,
Not much to go on here - is your system 32bit or 64bit.  How much  
memory did you have before the upgrade, how much after?  If you system  
is 32bit is PAE enabled?  After adding the RAM did you see the new  
memory in "dmesg" or in "top" even?

taking a wild guess - you should be all set (assuming you are using a  
default kernel on a 64bit system).

-pete
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From bcully at gmail.com  Wed Apr  8 18:55:30 2009
From: bcully at gmail.com (Brian Cully)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 18:55:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Postgres memory usage FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <00B4179C-AB27-4183-88EF-385EF2804D46@nomadlogic.org>
References: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>
	<00B4179C-AB27-4183-88EF-385EF2804D46@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <5BF645B5-F4E7-4F28-8257-7804963E7473@gmail.com>

Assuming you're using gcc, try compiling postgres -m64.

I believe the defaults are still for 32 bit, which makes sense: most  
applications gain no benefit from 64, and many lose.

-bjc

On Apr 8, 2009, at 18:17, Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

>
> On 8-Apr-09, at 2:14 PM, Matt Terenzio wrote:
>
>>
>> Recently added some RAM to a FreeBSD system. Is it likely that I  
>> need to
>> recompile the kernel in order for Postgresql to be able to take  
>> advantage of
>> the extra ram?
>>
>>
> Hi Matt,
> Not much to go on here - is your system 32bit or 64bit.  How much  
> memory did you have before the upgrade, how much after?  If you  
> system is 32bit is PAE enabled?  After adding the RAM did you see  
> the new memory in "dmesg" or in "top" even?
>
> taking a wild guess - you should be all set (assuming you are using  
> a default kernel on a 64bit system).
>
> -pete
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From matt at thehour.com  Wed Apr  8 19:15:55 2009
From: matt at thehour.com (Matt Terenzio)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:15:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Postgres memory usage FreeBSD
References: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>
	<00B4179C-AB27-4183-88EF-385EF2804D46@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <33C9E6D4AA2E9741B021194BBF4AF40D0123EF64@thehourexchange.thehour.com>

---Not much to go on here - 

I apologize. I thought it would be a resounding "yes recompile" and as usual on this list, I'm wrong.

But. . .

No It's a FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (GENERIC) i386. It was running with only 256k and now has 1.5 GB

top->

last pid: 14785;  load averages:  0.37,  0.27,  0.21                                                                     up 0+03:03:19  18:59:23
47 processes:  2 running, 45 sleeping
CPU states: 64.0% user,  0.0% nice, 35.3% system,  0.8% interrupt,  0.0% idle
Mem: 65M Active, 216M Inact, 141M Wired, 1636K Cache, 112M Buf, 1060M Free
Swap: 1500M Total, 1500M Free

I'm running off to see what PAE enabled is all about. As usual a learning experience awaits.

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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Apr  8 19:21:38 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:21:38 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Postgres memory usage FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <33C9E6D4AA2E9741B021194BBF4AF40D0123EF64@thehourexchange.thehour.com>
References: <C6028C0D.2BF2%matt@thehour.com>
	<00B4179C-AB27-4183-88EF-385EF2804D46@nomadlogic.org>
	<33C9E6D4AA2E9741B021194BBF4AF40D0123EF64@thehourexchange.thehour.com>
Message-ID: <406EE1AF-EAAE-44B2-94B7-C3AB2C2B071C@nomadlogic.org>


On 8-Apr-09, at 4:15 PM, Matt Terenzio wrote:

> ---Not much to go on here -
>
> I apologize. I thought it would be a resounding "yes recompile" and  
> as usual on this list, I'm wrong.
>
> But. . .
>
> No It's a FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (GENERIC) i386. It was running with  
> only 256k and now has 1.5 GB
>
> top->
>
> last pid: 14785;  load averages:  0.37,  0.27,   
> 0.21 
>                                                                       
> up 0+03:03:19  18:59:23
> 47 processes:  2 running, 45 sleeping
> CPU states: 64.0% user,  0.0% nice, 35.3% system,  0.8% interrupt,   
> 0.0% idle
> Mem: 65M Active, 216M Inact, 141M Wired, 1636K Cache, 112M Buf,  
> 1060M Free
> Swap: 1500M Total, 1500M Free
>
> I'm running off to see what PAE enabled is all about. As usual a  
> learning experience awaits.
>
>

I reckon you mean your system was 259MB not kb right?  Anywho - you  
are fine with 1.5GB of RAM on a 32bit system with or without PAE.

-p

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From matt at atopia.net  Fri Apr 17 13:42:20 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>

We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50 
servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, and 
thought I'd get a second opinion.

First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking of 
using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their appropriate 
files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an update 
via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn.  This 
is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?

Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50 servers 
we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell, some 
IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory ranges). 
Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to 
create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from source 
on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version each 
time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of its 
specific hardware).

Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can 
provide.  Thanks!

-Matt


From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 22:37:02 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:37:02 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>

Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How
do you plan to handle package installation? That's one thing where CMS can
really help.

-Brian

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
> servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, and
> thought I'd get a second opinion.
>
> First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking of
> using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their appropriate
> files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an update
> via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn.  This
> is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>
> Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50 servers
> we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell, some
> IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory ranges).
> Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
> create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from source
> on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version each
> time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of its
> specific hardware).
>
> Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
> provide.  Thanks!
>
> -Matt
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
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From matt at atopia.net  Fri Apr 17 23:01:23 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>

That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of 
intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted" route, 
we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:

./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>

which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary 
ports (all the same version of course), install php, etc.  Then, we'd push 
the configuration files via svn as well.

If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN, 
so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.

I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited, 
and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your poison.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:

> Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How do you plan to handle package installation?
> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
> 
> -Brian
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>       We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>       servers total. ?I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, and
>       thought I'd get a second opinion.
>
>       First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking of
>       using an SVN-based setup. ?Each server would checkout their appropriate
>       files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an update
>       via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn. ?This
>       is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine. ?Thoughts?
>
>       Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages. ?Across the 50 servers
>       we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets. ?Some will be Dell, some
>       IBM, etc. ?Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory ranges).
>       Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
>       create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from source
>       on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version each
>       time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of its
>       specific hardware).
>
>       Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>       provide. ?Thanks!
>
>       -Matt
>       _______________________________________________
>       talk mailing list
>       talk at lists.nycbug.org
>       http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Brian Gupta
> 
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> 
>

From dave at donnerjack.com  Fri Apr 17 23:23:55 2009
From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:23:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <30BCE179-DD1F-4B9A-985D-D4169B883146@donnerjack.com>

Actually, if puppet has good BSD support, the package management,  
particularly across multiple hardware architectures and the like,  
seems like a really good fit for it.  From what I recall of the (quite  
old at this point) presentation I saw about it, that was a big  
advantage.  I'm not sure how CFEngine works with package management,  
I'm sure it has a facility for it, but I know a couple admins, several  
of whom are BSD users, who are using it and quite happy with it.   
Fifty boxes is kind of small for that level of administrative  
overhead, but what you pay in effort up front, you get back in the  
long term.

--Dave
On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of  
> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted"  
> route, we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>
> ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>
> which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install  
> necessary ports (all the same version of course), install php, etc.   
> Then, we'd push the configuration files via svn as well.
>
> If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages  
> in SVN, so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.
>
> I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems  
> limited, and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your  
> poison.
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>> Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one  
>> question. How do you plan to handle package installation?
>> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>> -Brian
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>  
>> wrote:
>>      We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes -  
>> about 50
>>      servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat  
>> debating, and
>>      thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>
>>      First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was  
>> thinking of
>>      using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their  
>> appropriate
>>      files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs  
>> an update
>>      via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or  
>> svn.  This
>>      is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>
>>      Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the  
>> 50 servers
>>      we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be  
>> Dell, some
>>      IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory  
>> ranges).
>>      Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make  
>> package to
>>      create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports  
>> from source
>>      on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package  
>> version each
>>      time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the  
>> benefits of its
>>      specific hardware).
>>
>>      Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input  
>> anyone can
>>      provide.  Thanks!
>>
>>      -Matt
>>      _______________________________________________
>>      talk mailing list
>>      talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>      http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From matt at atopia.net  Fri Apr 17 23:30:40 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:30:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <30BCE179-DD1F-4B9A-985D-D4169B883146@donnerjack.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<30BCE179-DD1F-4B9A-985D-D4169B883146@donnerjack.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172330250.55540@pluto.atopia.net>

When you say you know several admins using "it" and quite happy with "it", 
are you referring to CFEngine or Puppet?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, David Lawson wrote:

> Actually, if puppet has good BSD support, the package management, 
> particularly across multiple hardware architectures and the like, seems like 
> a really good fit for it.  From what I recall of the (quite old at this 
> point) presentation I saw about it, that was a big advantage.  I'm not sure 
> how CFEngine works with package management, I'm sure it has a facility for 
> it, but I know a couple admins, several of whom are BSD users, who are using 
> it and quite happy with it.  Fifty boxes is kind of small for that level of 
> administrative overhead, but what you pay in effort up front, you get back in 
> the long term.
>
> --Dave
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>
>> That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of 
>> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted" route, 
>> we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>> 
>> ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>> 
>> which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary ports 
>> (all the same version of course), install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the 
>> configuration files via svn as well.
>> 
>> If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN, 
>> so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.
>> 
>> I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited, 
>> and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>> 
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>> 
>>> Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How 
>>> do you plan to handle package installation?
>>> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>> -Brian
>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>>     We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>>>     servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, 
>>> and
>>>     thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>>
>>>     First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking 
>>> of
>>>     using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their 
>>> appropriate
>>>     files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an 
>>> update
>>>     via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn. 
>>> This
>>>     is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>>
>>>     Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50 
>>> servers
>>>     we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell, 
>>> some
>>>     IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory 
>>> ranges).
>>>     Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
>>>     create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from 
>>> source
>>>     on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version 
>>> each
>>>     time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of 
>>> its
>>>     specific hardware).
>>>
>>>     Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>>>     provide.  Thanks!
>>>
>>>     -Matt
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     talk mailing list
>>>     talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>     http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


From riegersteve at gmail.com  Fri Apr 17 23:35:50 2009
From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:35:50 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172330250.55540@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net><5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net><30BCE179-DD1F-4B9A-985D-D4169B883146@donnerjack.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172330250.55540@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <762357709-1240025754-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1686816463-@bxe1209.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Check out rubix
We use it here at ticketmaster to manage over 10k servers from a central location

Will even install oracle, sap, tomcat, etc...

If you need more info let me know

--
Sent via Blackberry
I can be reached at 310-947-8565

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>

Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:30:40 
To: David Lawson<dave at donnerjack.com>
Cc: <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions


When you say you know several admins using "it" and quite happy with "it", 
are you referring to CFEngine or Puppet?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, David Lawson wrote:

> Actually, if puppet has good BSD support, the package management, 
> particularly across multiple hardware architectures and the like, seems like 
> a really good fit for it.  From what I recall of the (quite old at this 
> point) presentation I saw about it, that was a big advantage.  I'm not sure 
> how CFEngine works with package management, I'm sure it has a facility for 
> it, but I know a couple admins, several of whom are BSD users, who are using 
> it and quite happy with it.  Fifty boxes is kind of small for that level of 
> administrative overhead, but what you pay in effort up front, you get back in 
> the long term.
>
> --Dave
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>
>> That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of 
>> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted" route, 
>> we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>> 
>> ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>> 
>> which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary ports 
>> (all the same version of course), install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the 
>> configuration files via svn as well.
>> 
>> If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN, 
>> so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.
>> 
>> I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited, 
>> and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>> 
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>> 
>>> Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How 
>>> do you plan to handle package installation?
>>> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>> -Brian
>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>>     We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>>>     servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, 
>>> and
>>>     thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>>
>>>     First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking 
>>> of
>>>     using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their 
>>> appropriate
>>>     files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an 
>>> update
>>>     via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn. 
>>> This
>>>     is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>>
>>>     Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50 
>>> servers
>>>     we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell, 
>>> some
>>>     IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory 
>>> ranges).
>>>     Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
>>>     create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from 
>>> source
>>>     on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version 
>>> each
>>>     time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of 
>>> its
>>>     specific hardware).
>>>
>>>     Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>>>     provide.  Thanks!
>>>
>>>     -Matt
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     talk mailing list
>>>     talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>     http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

From matt at atopia.net  Sat Apr 18 00:18:21 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:18:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <762357709-1240025754-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1686816463-@bxe1209.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net><5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net><30BCE179-DD1F-4B9A-985D-D4169B883146@donnerjack.com><alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172330250.55540@pluto.atopia.net>
	<762357709-1240025754-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1686816463-@bxe1209.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904180018150.59603@pluto.atopia.net>

I wasn't able to find this anywhere..

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, riegersteve at gmail.com wrote:

> Check out rubix
> We use it here at ticketmaster to manage over 10k servers from a central location
>
> Will even install oracle, sap, tomcat, etc...
>
> If you need more info let me know
>
> --
> Sent via Blackberry
> I can be reached at 310-947-8565
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>
> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:30:40
> To: David Lawson<dave at donnerjack.com>
> Cc: <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
>
>
> When you say you know several admins using "it" and quite happy with "it",
> are you referring to CFEngine or Puppet?
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, David Lawson wrote:
>
>> Actually, if puppet has good BSD support, the package management,
>> particularly across multiple hardware architectures and the like, seems like
>> a really good fit for it.  From what I recall of the (quite old at this
>> point) presentation I saw about it, that was a big advantage.  I'm not sure
>> how CFEngine works with package management, I'm sure it has a facility for
>> it, but I know a couple admins, several of whom are BSD users, who are using
>> it and quite happy with it.  Fifty boxes is kind of small for that level of
>> administrative overhead, but what you pay in effort up front, you get back in
>> the long term.
>>
>> --Dave
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>>
>>> That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of
>>> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted" route,
>>> we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>>>
>>> ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>>>
>>> which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary ports
>>> (all the same version of course), install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the
>>> configuration files via svn as well.
>>>
>>> If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN,
>>> so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.
>>>
>>> I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited,
>>> and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How
>>>> do you plan to handle package installation?
>>>> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>>> -Brian
>>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>>>     We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>>>>     servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating,
>>>> and
>>>>     thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>>>
>>>>     First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking
>>>> of
>>>>     using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their
>>>> appropriate
>>>>     files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an
>>>> update
>>>>     via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn.
>>>> This
>>>>     is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>     Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50
>>>> servers
>>>>     we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell,
>>>> some
>>>>     IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory
>>>> ranges).
>>>>     Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
>>>>     create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from
>>>> source
>>>>     on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version
>>>> each
>>>>     time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of
>>>> its
>>>>     specific hardware).
>>>>
>>>>     Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>>>>     provide.  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>     -Matt
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     talk mailing list
>>>>     talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>>     http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>> --
>>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 02:49:45 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:49:45 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com>

Matt,

I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since you
are running a centralized configuration management system, you can keep your
config files in puppet.

Puppet understands a number of resources types. These include:
- Files
- Users
- Packages
- Services
- Cron
- sshkeys

and many more.. See here for a relatively full list:
http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference

In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event that what you need
to do is not yet supported.

Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object hierarchy. Very
cool when work with related machine types.

I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as compared to your
SVN proposal).

Thanks,
Brian

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of
> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go the "ports scripted" route, we'll
> most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>
> ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>
> which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary ports
> (all the same version of course), install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the
> configuration files via svn as well.
>
> If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN,
> so that you can "check out" the repository of packages.
>
> I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited,
> and CF Engine seems complex.  Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>  Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How
>> do you plan to handle package installation?
>> That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>
>> -Brian
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>      We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>>      servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating,
>> and
>>      thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>
>>      First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking
>> of
>>      using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their
>> appropriate
>>      files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an
>> update
>>      via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn.
>>  This
>>      is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>
>>      Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50
>> servers
>>      we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be Dell,
>> some
>>      IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory
>> ranges).
>>      Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package
>> to
>>      create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from
>> source
>>      on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version
>> each
>>      time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of
>> its
>>      specific hardware).
>>
>>      Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>>      provide.  Thanks!
>>
>>      -Matt
>>      _______________________________________________
>>      talk mailing list
>>      talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>      http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
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From dan at langille.org  Sat Apr 18 09:20:49 2009
From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:20:49 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Google Maps - File Save As
Message-ID: <49E9D3B1.5060602@langille.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I have a map for BSDCan 2008.  I plan to have one for 2009.  Problem is,
I cannot do a File Save As, and use last year as a starting point for
this year.  Or can I?

See http://tinyurl.com/2lzthw

- --
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/
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From matt at atopia.net  Sat Apr 18 19:17:48 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:17:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>

Setting this up on two test servers and seeing how it does :) I had just 
read before that it had serious limitations working with multiple 
operating systems.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:

> Matt,
> 
> I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since you are running a centralized configuration
> management system, you can keep your config files in puppet.
> 
> Puppet understands a number of resources types. These include:
> - Files
> - Users
> - Packages
> - Services
> - Cron
> - sshkeys
> 
> and many more.. See here for a relatively full list: http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference
> 
> In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event that what you need to do is not yet supported.
> 
> Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object hierarchy. Very cool when work with related machine types.
> 
> I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as compared to your SVN proposal).
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>       That's what I'm trying to figure out. ?These two questions sort of intertwine themselves. ?If we decide to go
>       the "ports scripted" route, we'll most likely have scripts like this in SVN:
>
>       ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>
>       which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary ports (all the same version of course),
>       install php, etc. ?Then, we'd push the configuration files via svn as well.
>
>       If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in SVN, so that you can "check out" the
>       repository of packages.
>
>       I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems limited, and CF Engine seems complex.
>       ?Seems like it's a pick your poison.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>       Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one question. How do you plan to handle
>       package installation?
>       That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>
>       -Brian
>
>       On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>       ? ? ?We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>       ? ? ?servers total. ?I have two things which I'm still somewhat debating, and
>       ? ? ?thought I'd get a second opinion.
>
>       ? ? ?First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was thinking of
>       ? ? ?using an SVN-based setup. ?Each server would checkout their appropriate
>       ? ? ?files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs an update
>       ? ? ?via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or svn. ?This
>       ? ? ?is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine. ?Thoughts?
>
>       ? ? ?Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages. ?Across the 50 servers
>       ? ? ?we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets. ?Some will be Dell, some
>       ? ? ?IBM, etc. ?Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory ranges).
>       ? ? ?Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make package to
>       ? ? ?create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports from source
>       ? ? ?on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package version each
>       ? ? ?time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the benefits of its
>       ? ? ?specific hardware).
>
>       ? ? ?Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone can
>       ? ? ?provide. ?Thanks!
>
>       ? ? ?-Matt
>       ? ? ?_______________________________________________
>       ? ? ?talk mailing list
>       ? ? ?talk at lists.nycbug.org
>       ? ? ?http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
> 
>
>       --
>       - Brian Gupta
>
>       New York City user groups calendar:
>       http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Brian Gupta
> 
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
> 
>

From dan at langille.org  Sat Apr 18 19:50:29 2009
From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:50:29 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Google Maps - File Save As
In-Reply-To: <49E9D3B1.5060602@langille.org>
References: <49E9D3B1.5060602@langille.org>
Message-ID: <49EA6745.50600@langille.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dan Langille wrote:
> I have a map for BSDCan 2008.  I plan to have one for 2009.  Problem is,
> I cannot do a File Save As, and use last year as a starting point for
> this year.  Or can I?
> 
> See http://tinyurl.com/2lzthw
> 

This solution worked.

http://sites.google.com/site/gmapstips/copy-move-features-between-my-maps

See the new map (a work in progress): http://tinyurl.com/dctggn

- --
Dan Langille

BSDCan - The Technical BSD Conference : http://www.bsdcan.org/
PGCon  - The PostgreSQL Conference:     http://www.pgcon.org/
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From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Sat Apr 18 23:54:52 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:54:52 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904182054j2fc428ffl66c3b8fcd584015a@mail.gmail.com>

Feel free to ping me if you have any questions, or better yet, ping the
mailing list for the NY Puppet UG: http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-nyc

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> Setting this up on two test servers and seeing how it does :) I had just
> read before that it had serious limitations working with multiple operating
> systems.
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>  Matt,
>>
>> I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>> you are running a centralized configuration
>> management system, you can keep your config files in puppet.
>>
>> Puppet understands a number of resources types. These include:
>> - Files
>> - Users
>> - Packages
>> - Services
>> - Cron
>> - sshkeys
>>
>> and many more.. See here for a relatively full list:
>> http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference
>>
>> In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event that what you
>> need to do is not yet supported.
>>
>> Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object hierarchy. Very
>> cool when work with related machine types.
>>
>> I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as compared to
>> your SVN proposal).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>      That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two questions sort of
>> intertwine themselves.  If we decide to go
>>      the "ports scripted" route, we'll most likely have scripts like this
>> in SVN:
>>
>>      ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>>
>>      which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile, install necessary
>> ports (all the same version of course),
>>      install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the configuration files via svn as
>> well.
>>
>>      If we decide to go a package route, we might even put the packages in
>> SVN, so that you can "check out" the
>>      repository of packages.
>>
>>      I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine: puppet seems
>> limited, and CF Engine seems complex.
>>       Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>>
>>      Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again, but one
>> question. How do you plan to handle
>>      package installation?
>>      That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>
>>      -Brian
>>
>>      On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>> wrote:
>>           We're launching an entirely new setup across FreeBSD boxes -
>> about 50
>>           servers total.  I have two things which I'm still somewhat
>> debating, and
>>           thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>
>>           First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the boxes, I was
>> thinking of
>>           using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would checkout their
>> appropriate
>>           files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server when it needs
>> an update
>>           via config files that would be fetched often via either ftp or
>> svn.  This
>>           is neat and flexible, but not as complex as CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>
>>           Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.  Across the 50
>> servers
>>           we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.  Some will be
>> Dell, some
>>           IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address larger memory
>> ranges).
>>           Should I set up a single server for each class (and do make
>> package to
>>           create packages for each box), or should I just compile ports
>> from source
>>           on each box, verifying that I'm installing the same package
>> version each
>>           time (which will allow each box to take advantage of the
>> benefits of its
>>           specific hardware).
>>
>>           Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate any input anyone
>> can
>>           provide.  Thanks!
>>
>>           -Matt
>>           _______________________________________________
>>           talk mailing list
>>           talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>           http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      --
>>      - Brian Gupta
>>
>>      New York City user groups calendar:
>>      http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>>
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>
>> [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
>>
>>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
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From matt at atopia.net  Fri Apr 24 13:24:04 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (matt at atopia.net)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:24:04 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
Message-ID: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert or something I can get a call on it. 

I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas on good providers for this service. 

M 



From dave at donnerjack.com  Fri Apr 24 14:14:54 2009
From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:14:54 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <3E0FF1C4-5997-49DA-97F7-FD7AE2ED1875@donnerjack.com>

Providers, no.  We use Asterisk with an AGI script for it.  I didn't  
set it up, so I don't know details, but I could get them if you were  
interested.  I'd be a little leery of doing e-mail that way, otherwise  
you'll end up with Asterisk calling you asking if you want to extend  
the length of your penis or buy some cheap Cialis, but it's an option.

--Dave
On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:24 PM, matt at atopia.net wrote:

> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert  
> or something I can get a call on it.
>
> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas  
> on good providers for this service.
>
> M
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



From matt at thehour.com  Fri Apr 24 14:22:06 2009
From: matt at thehour.com (Matt MT. Terenzio)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:22:06 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <C6177B8E.2E67%matt@thehour.com>

You can rig up your own service by using http://twilio.com It may cost you
five dollars a month or so.


On 4/24/09 1:24 PM, "matt at atopia.net" <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert or
> something I can get a call on it.
> 
> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas on good
> providers for this service.
> 
> M 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Matthew Terenzio
Web Development Director
The Hour Publishing Co.
203 354 1087
 




From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Apr 24 14:26:50 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:26:50 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <3E0FF1C4-5997-49DA-97F7-FD7AE2ED1875@donnerjack.com> (David
	Lawson's message of "Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:14:54 -0400")
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<3E0FF1C4-5997-49DA-97F7-FD7AE2ED1875@donnerjack.com>
Message-ID: <oq7i19syad.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "dl" == David Lawson <dave at donnerjack.com> writes:

    dl> you'll end up with Asterisk calling you asking if you want to
    dl> extend the length of your penis [with] Cialis,

oh thank god.  I thought it was just me getting those.
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From jim at zaah.com  Fri Apr 24 14:29:14 2009
From: jim at zaah.com (Jim Cassata)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:29:14 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <e292a9570904241129u23e58512h6aab9754a58dc999@mail.gmail.com>

We just use the cell_number at carrier_email_for_SMS.com and get SMS
alerts from Nagios.

Works for every big carrier. (verizon, AT&T, etc)

Thanks

Jim Cassata
Infrastructure Manager
Zaah Technologies, Inc.
Desk 631.873.2046
Cell 516.319.4267



On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:24 PM,  <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert or something I can get a call on it.
>
> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas on good providers for this service.
>
> M
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


From thenorthsecedes at gmail.com  Fri Apr 24 14:35:50 2009
From: thenorthsecedes at gmail.com (Eric Lee)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:35:50 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <C6177B8E.2E67%matt@thehour.com>
References: <C6177B8E.2E67%matt@thehour.com>
Message-ID: <EDB4103A-3D5C-4474-ACB9-77EA1C642EC0@gmail.com>

Semi-related question, but since we're on the topic of phone services,  
does anyone know of a twilio.com-like service for SMS messages?

E.g. I send an SMS to 212.555.5555 and programatically some service  
forwards the text + number to my app?

Sending SMS's to carriers seems easy (just turn it into email) but  
doing the reverse is non-trivial.

-Eric

On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Matt MT. Terenzio wrote:

> You can rig up your own service by using http://twilio.com It may  
> cost you
> five dollars a month or so.
>
>
> On 4/24/09 1:24 PM, "matt at atopia.net" <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>
>> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an  
>> alert or
>> something I can get a call on it.
>>
>> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas  
>> on good
>> providers for this service.
>>
>> M
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> Matthew Terenzio
> Web Development Director
> The Hour Publishing Co.
> 203 354 1087
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From dave at donnerjack.com  Fri Apr 24 14:37:23 2009
From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:37:23 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <e292a9570904241129u23e58512h6aab9754a58dc999@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<e292a9570904241129u23e58512h6aab9754a58dc999@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA64365E-1C49-4E4D-9F93-BD35C677B1F3@donnerjack.com>

Yeah, we do that as well, but SMSes are non-time guaranteed, and in  
some situations, non-delivery guaranteed, so for critical alerts we  
generate a call via Asterisk.

--Dave
On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Jim Cassata wrote:

> We just use the cell_number at carrier_email_for_SMS.com and get SMS
> alerts from Nagios.
>
> Works for every big carrier. (verizon, AT&T, etc)
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim Cassata
> Infrastructure Manager
> Zaah Technologies, Inc.
> Desk 631.873.2046
> Cell 516.319.4267
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:24 PM,  <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an  
>> alert or something I can get a call on it.
>>
>> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas  
>> on good providers for this service.
>>
>> M
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



From matt at thehour.com  Fri Apr 24 15:03:12 2009
From: matt at thehour.com (Matt Terenzio)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:03:12 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
References: <C6177B8E.2E67%matt@thehour.com>
	<EDB4103A-3D5C-4474-ACB9-77EA1C642EC0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33C9E6D4AA2E9741B021194BBF4AF40D0123EF8D@thehourexchange.thehour.com>


 
Semi-related question, but since we're on the topic of phone services,  
does anyone know of a twilio.com-like service for SMS messages?


You could check out Xanthem

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From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Apr 24 15:00:49 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:00:49 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <EDB4103A-3D5C-4474-ACB9-77EA1C642EC0@gmail.com> (Eric Lee's
	message of "Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:35:50 -0400")
References: <C6177B8E.2E67%matt@thehour.com>
	<EDB4103A-3D5C-4474-ACB9-77EA1C642EC0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oq3abxswpq.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "el" == Eric Lee <thenorthsecedes at gmail.com> writes:

    el> E.g. I send an SMS to 212.555.5555 and programatically some
    el> service forwards the text + number to my app?

    el> Sending SMS's to carriers seems easy (just turn it into email)
    el> but doing the reverse is non-trivial.

it is non-trivial because of the telco cartels.  Within the US they've
agreed among themselves they will only route inbound messages to
either plain-old-sheep cel customers, or holders of ``short codes''
those five-digit numbers on ads.  The laconi.ca guy who spoke at
Unigroup looked into short codes, and not only do you have to pay a
couple thousand a month but you also have to sign all kinds of
agreements and let them inspect your business intentions and so on,
and the cartel can change their mind, too.  It's as bad as developing
iphone apps.

You can get an aussie or UK inbound SMS number for ~$0.01/message
without this american business-garbage:

 http://www.clickatell.com/pricing/basic_coverage.php

This suits me badly because I can't receive both phone calls and SMS
at the same number, but it is what I would try first in your spot.

Maybe this will change soon, from Google Voice, breaking into the SMS
cartel and forming it into a different, more subtle kind of evil.

You can also hook a SIM up to Asterisk or some other scripting
language to evade the shortcode agreements:

 http://trixbox.org/wiki/chan-mobile
 http://web.archive.org/web/20071221101858/http://www.nobaq.net/~niki/chan_cellphone/v17/tmp/doc/cellphone.txt

there are older standalone fixed devices made for SMS that take SIM's
and have RS232 ports but these are too expensive and I think mostly a
sucker-tax on people who can't figure out how to do the same thing
with plain old locked-down handsets.
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From bonsaime at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 00:16:44 2009
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:16:44 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
Message-ID: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to write a one-liner c program which will set my hardware
clock because I've forgotten how to normally do this.

Two things I'd like to know.

1. How do you normally do this?
2. My program won't compile, FreeBSD 7.1 powerpc.

#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/systm.h>

These are the only two lines. I hope to eventually stick resettodr()
in there, but it dies with just this. I am trying to compile with "cc
 thefile.c". There are a bunch of errors that come up, the first of
which is

/usr/include/sys/systm.h:221: error: expected declaration specifiers
or '...' before 'uintfptr_t'

Is my system source out of sync with the kernel? Here's my sys/systm.h
version tag and uname.

$FreeBSD: src/sys/sys/systm.h,v 1.260.2.3.2.1 2008/11/25 02:59:29 kensmith Exp $
FreeBSD ghee.localdomain 7.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE-p5 #1: Fri
Apr 24 14:44:52 EDT 2009
root at ghee.localdomain:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  powerpc

And yes... I did just update, so this is my first suspect.

-jesse


From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Sat Apr 25 23:39:17 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:39:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904252039v168ceda7tc6a99b521620b02e@mail.gmail.com>

"man date"

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to write a one-liner c program which will set my hardware
> clock because I've forgotten how to normally do this.
>
> Two things I'd like to know.
>
> 1. How do you normally do this?
> 2. My program won't compile, FreeBSD 7.1 powerpc.
>
> #include <sys/types.h>
> #include <sys/systm.h>
>
> These are the only two lines. I hope to eventually stick resettodr()
> in there, but it dies with just this. I am trying to compile with "cc
>  thefile.c". There are a bunch of errors that come up, the first of
> which is
>
> /usr/include/sys/systm.h:221: error: expected declaration specifiers
> or '...' before 'uintfptr_t'
>
> Is my system source out of sync with the kernel? Here's my sys/systm.h
> version tag and uname.
>
> $FreeBSD: src/sys/sys/systm.h,v 1.260.2.3.2.1 2008/11/25 02:59:29 kensmith
> Exp $
> FreeBSD ghee.localdomain 7.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE-p5 #1: Fri
> Apr 24 14:44:52 EDT 2009
> root at ghee.localdomain:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  powerpc
>
> And yes... I did just update, so this is my first suspect.
>
> -jesse
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
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From mspitzer at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 00:35:57 2009
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:35:57 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>

This might help:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-March/144321.html

What does your C code look like?

marc


On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to write a one-liner c program which will set my hardware
> clock because I've forgotten how to normally do this.
>
> Two things I'd like to know.
>
> 1. How do you normally do this?
> 2. My program won't compile, FreeBSD 7.1 powerpc.
>
> #include <sys/types.h>
> #include <sys/systm.h>
>
> These are the only two lines. I hope to eventually stick resettodr()
> in there, but it dies with just this. I am trying to compile with "cc
> ?thefile.c". There are a bunch of errors that come up, the first of
> which is
>
> /usr/include/sys/systm.h:221: error: expected declaration specifiers
> or '...' before 'uintfptr_t'
>
> Is my system source out of sync with the kernel? Here's my sys/systm.h
> version tag and uname.
>
> $FreeBSD: src/sys/sys/systm.h,v 1.260.2.3.2.1 2008/11/25 02:59:29 kensmith Exp $
> FreeBSD ghee.localdomain 7.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE-p5 #1: Fri
> Apr 24 14:44:52 EDT 2009
> root at ghee.localdomain:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC ?powerpc
>
> And yes... I did just update, so this is my first suspect.
>
> -jesse
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From matt at atopia.net  Sun Apr 26 19:04:43 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:04:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904200941380.44895@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904182054j2fc428ffl66c3b8fcd584015a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780904182056n41ac6997sd3a8414e9e12eb52@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904200941380.44895@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904261903240.92373@pluto.atopia.net>

We're working on using puppet, but I had a quick question.  I've setup a 
build server and build packages for everything we need.  Now I'm trying to 
figure out the best way to deploy those packages.  My initial reaction is 
to use an SVN repository to "checkout" the packages to each box and 
install the ones needed.   But does puppet include some sort of file 
transfer configuration so I can push packages using that?


On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> Makes sense :) I'm actually enjoying working with it right now.  Tying it 
> into LDAP.
>
> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>> Just realized a thinko in my original email:
>> 
>> "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>> you are running a centralized configuration
>> management system, you can keep your config files in puppet."
>> 
>> was supposed to read:
>> 
>> "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>> you are running a centralized configuration
>> management system, you can keep your config files and puppet recipes in
>> SVN."
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>       Feel free to ping me if you have any questions, or better yet,
>>       ping the mailing list for the NY Puppet UG:
>>       http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-nyc
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>> wrote:
>>       Setting this up on two test servers and seeing how it does
>>       :) I had just read before that it had serious limitations
>>       working with multiple operating systems.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>> 
>> Matt,
>> 
>> I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With
>> puppet, since you are running a centralized configuration
>> management system, you can keep your config files in
>> puppet.
>> 
>> Puppet understands a number of resources types. These
>> include:
>> - Files
>> - Users
>> - Packages
>> - Services
>> - Cron
>> - sshkeys
>> 
>> and many more.. See here for a relatively full list:
>> http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference
>> 
>> In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event
>> that what you need to do is not yet supported.
>> 
>> Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object
>> hierarchy. Very cool when work with related machine types.
>> 
>> I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as
>> compared to your SVN proposal).
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brian
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak
>> <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>> ? ? ?That's what I'm trying to figure out. ?These two
>> questions sort of intertwine themselves. ?If we decide to
>> go
>> ? ? ?the "ports scripted" route, we'll most likely have
>> scripts like this in SVN:
>> 
>> ? ? ?./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>> 
>> ? ? ?which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile,
>> install necessary ports (all the same version of course),
>> ? ? ?install php, etc. ?Then, we'd push the configuration
>> files via svn as well.
>> 
>> ? ? ?If we decide to go a package route, we might even put
>> the packages in SVN, so that you can "check out" the
>> ? ? ?repository of packages.
>> 
>> ? ? ?I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine:
>> puppet seems limited, and CF Engine seems complex.
>> ? ? ??Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>> 
>> ? ? ?Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again,
>> but one question. How do you plan to handle
>> ? ? ?package installation?
>> ? ? ?That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>> 
>> ? ? ?-Brian
>> 
>> ? ? ?On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak
>> <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>> ? ? ?? ? ?We're launching an entirely new setup across
>> FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>> ? ? ?? ? ?servers total. ?I have two things which I'm
>> still somewhat debating, and
>> ? ? ?? ? ?thought I'd get a second opinion.
>> 
>> ? ? ?? ? ?First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the
>> boxes, I was thinking of
>> ? ? ?? ? ?using an SVN-based setup. ?Each server would
>> checkout their appropriate
>> ? ? ?? ? ?files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server
>> when it needs an update
>> ? ? ?? ? ?via config files that would be fetched often via
>> either ftp or svn. ?This
>> ? ? ?? ? ?is neat and flexible, but not as complex as
>> CFEngine. ?Thoughts?
>> 
>> ? ? ?? ? ?Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.
>> ?Across the 50 servers
>> ? ? ?? ? ?we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.
>> ?Some will be Dell, some
>> ? ? ?? ? ?IBM, etc. ?Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address
>> larger memory ranges).
>> ? ? ?? ? ?Should I set up a single server for each class
>> (and do make package to
>> ? ? ?? ? ?create packages for each box), or should I just
>> compile ports from source
>> ? ? ?? ? ?on each box, verifying that I'm installing the
>> same package version each
>> ? ? ?? ? ?time (which will allow each box to take
>> advantage of the benefits of its
>> ? ? ?? ? ?specific hardware).
>> 
>> ? ? ?? ? ?Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate
>> any input anyone can
>> ? ? ?? ? ?provide. ?Thanks!
>> 
>> ? ? ?? ? ?-Matt
>> ? ? ?? ? ?_______________________________________________
>> ? ? ?? ? ?talk mailing list
>> ? ? ?? ? ?talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> ? ? ?? ? ?http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ? ? ?--
>> ? ? ?- Brian Gupta
>> 
>> ? ? ?New York City user groups calendar:
>> ? ? ?http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>> 
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> 
>> [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>> 
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> - Brian Gupta
>> 
>> New York City user groups calendar:
>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>> 
>> 
>

From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Sun Apr 26 20:44:56 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:44:56 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904261903240.92373@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904182054j2fc428ffl66c3b8fcd584015a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780904182056n41ac6997sd3a8414e9e12eb52@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904200941380.44895@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904261903240.92373@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904261744heb49fcxe48ba758f3a524a3@mail.gmail.com>

What are these packages? Tarballs? Native OS packages?

Typically people either:
1) Use network repos for packages. eg: ports reops, debian apt repos, etc.
(Setting up a standards compliant network repo, and usign the coresponding
puppet package provider is prolly the best practice).
2) Use the "puppet files" filebucket, and serve them out of puppet itself.
(As one would distribute config files). Puppet probably isn't the best file
server in the world, but the advantage is you don't have to setup seperate
servers. We started with this option, and then eventually for performance
and scaling optimization, setup custom network repos to handle custom
packages. (Which we built using puppet).  :)
3) Use some other webserver to distribute the packages, and use execs to DL
the packages from the hosts. (You can always manage these in puppet, but use
the other webserver for distribution.)

One thing, I think you are probably at a stage when you want to keep your
puppet files and puppet code in SVN.. Let me know if you need help with
this. (Basically you edit the files on your desktop laptop, check them into
svn, and then check them out on the puppetmaster server. We do this
automatically. If some one checks something into SVN, within 5 mins, it will
be on the puppetmaster. I'm not sure if this is a best practice, but it sure
does make life simple.

Cheers,
Brian

On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> We're working on using puppet, but I had a quick question.  I've setup a
> build server and build packages for everything we need.  Now I'm trying to
> figure out the best way to deploy those packages.  My initial reaction is to
> use an SVN repository to "checkout" the packages to each box and install the
> ones needed.   But does puppet include some sort of file transfer
> configuration so I can push packages using that?
>
>
>
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>
>  Makes sense :) I'm actually enjoying working with it right now.  Tying it
>> into LDAP.
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>>
>>  Just realized a thinko in my original email:
>>>
>>> "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>>> you are running a centralized configuration
>>> management system, you can keep your config files in puppet."
>>>
>>> was supposed to read:
>>>
>>> "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>>> you are running a centralized configuration
>>> management system, you can keep your config files and puppet recipes in
>>> SVN."
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>      Feel free to ping me if you have any questions, or better yet,
>>>      ping the mailing list for the NY Puppet UG:
>>>      http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-nyc
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>      Setting this up on two test servers and seeing how it does
>>>      :) I had just read before that it had serious limitations
>>>      working with multiple operating systems.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>>>
>>> Matt,
>>>
>>> I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With
>>> puppet, since you are running a centralized configuration
>>> management system, you can keep your config files in
>>> puppet.
>>>
>>> Puppet understands a number of resources types. These
>>> include:
>>> - Files
>>> - Users
>>> - Packages
>>> - Services
>>> - Cron
>>> - sshkeys
>>>
>>> and many more.. See here for a relatively full list:
>>> http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference
>>>
>>> In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event
>>> that what you need to do is not yet supported.
>>>
>>> Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object
>>> hierarchy. Very cool when work with related machine types.
>>>
>>> I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as
>>> compared to your SVN proposal).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak
>>> <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>>      That's what I'm trying to figure out.  These two
>>> questions sort of intertwine themselves.  If we decide to
>>> go
>>>      the "ports scripted" route, we'll most likely have
>>> scripts like this in SVN:
>>>
>>>      ./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>>>
>>>      which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile,
>>> install necessary ports (all the same version of course),
>>>      install php, etc.  Then, we'd push the configuration
>>> files via svn as well.
>>>
>>>      If we decide to go a package route, we might even put
>>> the packages in SVN, so that you can "check out" the
>>>      repository of packages.
>>>
>>>      I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine:
>>> puppet seems limited, and CF Engine seems complex.
>>>       Seems like it's a pick your poison.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>>>
>>>      Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again,
>>> but one question. How do you plan to handle
>>>      package installation?
>>>      That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>>>
>>>      -Brian
>>>
>>>      On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak
>>> <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>>>           We're launching an entirely new setup across
>>> FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>>>           servers total.  I have two things which I'm
>>> still somewhat debating, and
>>>           thought I'd get a second opinion.
>>>
>>>           First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the
>>> boxes, I was thinking of
>>>           using an SVN-based setup.  Each server would
>>> checkout their appropriate
>>>           files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server
>>> when it needs an update
>>>           via config files that would be fetched often via
>>> either ftp or svn.  This
>>>           is neat and flexible, but not as complex as
>>> CFEngine.  Thoughts?
>>>
>>>           Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.
>>>  Across the 50 servers
>>>           we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.
>>>  Some will be Dell, some
>>>           IBM, etc.  Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address
>>> larger memory ranges).
>>>           Should I set up a single server for each class
>>> (and do make package to
>>>           create packages for each box), or should I just
>>> compile ports from source
>>>           on each box, verifying that I'm installing the
>>> same package version each
>>>           time (which will allow each box to take
>>> advantage of the benefits of its
>>>           specific hardware).
>>>
>>>           Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate
>>> any input anyone can
>>>           provide.  Thanks!
>>>
>>>           -Matt
>>>           _______________________________________________
>>>           talk mailing list
>>>           talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>>           http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      --
>>>      - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>>      New York City user groups calendar:
>>>      http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>> [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Brian Gupta
>>>
>>> New York City user groups calendar:
>>> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/
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From matt at atopia.net  Mon Apr 27 13:54:09 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:54:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New Setup Questions
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780904261744heb49fcxe48ba758f3a524a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904171339070.4088@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904171937m46735746q8a34a8db72732ba9@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904172259310.52462@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904172349y27e0eb24ycccc002bffd3a46c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904181917320.41675@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904182054j2fc428ffl66c3b8fcd584015a@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780904182056n41ac6997sd3a8414e9e12eb52@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904200941380.44895@pluto.atopia.net> 
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0904261903240.92373@pluto.atopia.net>
	<5b5090780904261744heb49fcxe48ba758f3a524a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904271352400.29892@pluto.atopia.net>

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:

> What are these packages? Tarballs? Native OS packages?

These are FreeBSD packages made with "make package-recursive".

> Typically people either:
> 1) Use network repos for packages. eg: ports reops, debian apt repos, etc. (Setting up a standards compliant network
> repo, and usign the coresponding puppet package provider is prolly the best practice).

You can do this with the freebsd packages?  The only thing I've seen 
people do is mount nfs mounts.

> 2) Use the "puppet files" filebucket, and serve them out of puppet itself. (As one would distribute config files). Puppet
> probably isn't the best file server in the world, but the advantage is you don't have to setup seperate servers. We
> started with this option, and then eventually for performance and scaling optimization, setup custom network repos to
> handle custom packages. (Which we built using puppet).? :)

ahh :)

> 3) Use some other webserver to distribute the packages, and use execs to DL the packages from the hosts. (You can always
> manage these in puppet, but use the other webserver for distribution.)

Mkaes sense.

> One thing, I think you are probably at a stage when you want to keep your puppet files and puppet code in SVN.. Let me
> know if you need help with this. (Basically you edit the files on your desktop laptop, check them into svn, and then
> check them out on the puppetmaster server. We do this automatically. If some one checks something into SVN, within 5
> mins, it will be on the puppetmaster. I'm not sure if this is a best practice, but it sure does make life simple.

Sounds good to me.  We're actually already doing that.  We have one SVN 
repo for packages (easy to check out) and we have another SVN repo for 
puppet.

  > Cheers,
> Brian
> 
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>       We're working on using puppet, but I had a quick question. ?I've setup a build server and build packages for
>       everything we need. ?Now I'm trying to figure out the best way to deploy those packages. ?My initial reaction
>       is to use an SVN repository to "checkout" the packages to each box and install the ones needed. ? But does
>       puppet include some sort of file transfer configuration so I can push packages using that?
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>
>       Makes sense :) I'm actually enjoying working with it right now. ?Tying it into LDAP.
>
>       On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>             Just realized a thinko in my original email:
>
>             "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>             you are running a centralized configuration
>             management system, you can keep your config files in puppet."
>
>             was supposed to read:
>
>             "I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With puppet, since
>             you are running a centralized configuration
>             management system, you can keep your config files and puppet recipes in
>             SVN."
>
>             On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Brian Gupta <brian.gupta at gmail.com> wrote:
>             ? ? ?Feel free to ping me if you have any questions, or better yet,
>             ? ? ?ping the mailing list for the NY Puppet UG:
>             ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-nyc
> 
>
>             On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>
>             wrote:
>             ? ? ?Setting this up on two test servers and seeing how it does
>             ? ? ?:) I had just read before that it had serious limitations
>             ? ? ?working with multiple operating systems.
> 
>
>             On Sat, 18 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>             Matt,
>
>             I'm gonna talk about puppet since that's what I know. With
>             puppet, since you are running a centralized configuration
>             management system, you can keep your config files in
>             puppet.
>
>             Puppet understands a number of resources types. These
>             include:
>             - Files
>             - Users
>             - Packages
>             - Services
>             - Cron
>             - sshkeys
>
>             and many more.. See here for a relatively full list:
>             http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference
>
>             In addition.. Puppet can exec arbitrary code in the event
>             that what you need to do is not yet supported.
>
>             Puppet let's you structure nodes and classes in an object
>             hierarchy. Very cool when work with related machine types.
>
>             I'm curious how you found puppet limited? (Particularly as
>             compared to your SVN proposal).
>
>             Thanks,
>             Brian
>
>             On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Matt Juszczak
>             <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>             ? ? ?That's what I'm trying to figure out. ?These two
>             questions sort of intertwine themselves. ?If we decide to
>             go
>             ? ? ?the "ports scripted" route, we'll most likely have
>             scripts like this in SVN:
>
>             ? ? ?./webserver-setup.sh -h<option1> -i<option2>
>
>             ? ? ?which will basically do a cvsup /etc/ports-supfile,
>             install necessary ports (all the same version of course),
>             ? ? ?install php, etc. ?Then, we'd push the configuration
>             files via svn as well.
>
>             ? ? ?If we decide to go a package route, we might even put
>             the packages in SVN, so that you can "check out" the
>             ? ? ?repository of packages.
>
>             ? ? ?I've looked at puppet, and I've looked at CF engine:
>             puppet seems limited, and CF Engine seems complex.
>             ? ? ??Seems like it's a pick your poison.
> 
>
>             On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Brian Gupta wrote:
>
>             ? ? ?Not to start up the cfengine vs puppet debate again,
>             but one question. How do you plan to handle
>             ? ? ?package installation?
>             ? ? ?That's one thing where CMS can really help.
>
>             ? ? ?-Brian
>
>             ? ? ?On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Matt Juszczak
>             <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
>             ? ? ?? ? ?We're launching an entirely new setup across
>             FreeBSD boxes - about 50
>             ? ? ?? ? ?servers total. ?I have two things which I'm
>             still somewhat debating, and
>             ? ? ?? ? ?thought I'd get a second opinion.
>
>             ? ? ?? ? ?First, instead of using CFEngine to manage the
>             boxes, I was thinking of
>             ? ? ?? ? ?using an SVN-based setup. ?Each server would
>             checkout their appropriate
>             ? ? ?? ? ?files via SVN, and I would "trigger" each server
>             when it needs an update
>             ? ? ?? ? ?via config files that would be fetched often via
>             either ftp or svn. ?This
>             ? ? ?? ? ?is neat and flexible, but not as complex as
>             CFEngine. ?Thoughts?
>
>             ? ? ?? ? ?Second, I'm trying to decide how to do packages.
>             ?Across the 50 servers
>             ? ? ?? ? ?we'll have about 6 or 7 different hardware sets.
>             ?Some will be Dell, some
>             ? ? ?? ? ?IBM, etc. ?Most will be 64 bit boxes (to address
>             larger memory ranges).
>             ? ? ?? ? ?Should I set up a single server for each class
>             (and do make package to
>             ? ? ?? ? ?create packages for each box), or should I just
>             compile ports from source
>             ? ? ?? ? ?on each box, verifying that I'm installing the
>             same package version each
>             ? ? ?? ? ?time (which will allow each box to take
>             advantage of the benefits of its
>             ? ? ?? ? ?specific hardware).
>
>             ? ? ?? ? ?Those are my two questions, and I'd appreciate
>             any input anyone can
>             ? ? ?? ? ?provide. ?Thanks!
>
>             ? ? ?? ? ?-Matt
>             ? ? ?? ? ?_______________________________________________
>             ? ? ?? ? ?talk mailing list
>             ? ? ?? ? ?talk at lists.nycbug.org
>             ? ? ?? ? ?http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
> 
>
>             ? ? ?--
>             ? ? ?- Brian Gupta
>
>             ? ? ?New York City user groups calendar:
>             ? ? ?http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
>             --
>             - Brian Gupta
>
>             New York City user groups calendar:
>             http://nyc.brandorr.com/
>
>             [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
> 
> 
> 
>
>             --
>             - Brian Gupta
>
>             New York City user groups calendar:
>             http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> 
> 
>
>             --
>             - Brian Gupta
>
>             New York City user groups calendar:
>             http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> - Brian Gupta
> 
> New York City user groups calendar:
> http://nyc.brandorr.com/
> 
> [tooltip_18px_18px.png]
> 
>

From bonsaime at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 15:25:45 2009
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:25:45 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Marc/Brian,

Those two pound includes are it so far.

Anyway,  it turns out that this header specifies stuff that's for
writing kernel code, and can't be used without special treatment. I
was definitely barking up the wrong tree.

date, and the various adjxxx commands haven't been helping out. I'll
just leave the computer on for a few days and see if it fixes itself
via whatever the hell it is that ntpd thinks its doing to the hardware
clock. For what it's worth the securelevel is -1, and ntp.conf has the
panic 0 option.

System time is totally fine, it's just momentarily in 1904 on boot up.
Fresh CMOS battery was installed recently.

-jesse

On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Marc Spitzer <mspitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> This might help:
>
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2007-March/144321.html
>
> What does your C code look like?
>
> marc
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm trying to write a one-liner c program which will set my hardware
>> clock because I've forgotten how to normally do this.
>>
>> Two things I'd like to know.
>>
>> 1. How do you normally do this?
>> 2. My program won't compile, FreeBSD 7.1 powerpc.
>>
>> #include <sys/types.h>
>> #include <sys/systm.h>
>>
>> These are the only two lines. I hope to eventually stick resettodr()
>> in there, but it dies with just this. I am trying to compile with "cc
>> ?thefile.c". There are a bunch of errors that come up, the first of
>> which is
>>
>> /usr/include/sys/systm.h:221: error: expected declaration specifiers
>> or '...' before 'uintfptr_t'
>>
>> Is my system source out of sync with the kernel? Here's my sys/systm.h
>> version tag and uname.
>>
>> $FreeBSD: src/sys/sys/systm.h,v 1.260.2.3.2.1 2008/11/25 02:59:29 kensmith Exp $
>> FreeBSD ghee.localdomain 7.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE-p5 #1: Fri
>> Apr 24 14:44:52 EDT 2009
>> root at ghee.localdomain:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC ?powerpc
>>
>> And yes... I did just update, so this is my first suspect.
>>
>> -jesse
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
> Albert Camus
>


From marco at metm.org  Mon Apr 27 16:31:46 2009
From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:31:46 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49F61632.6080103@metm.org>



Jesse Callaway wrote:
> Hey Marc/Brian,
>
> Those two pound includes are it so far.
>
> Anyway,  it turns out that this header specifies stuff that's for
> writing kernel code, and can't be used without special treatment. I
> was definitely barking up the wrong tree.
>
> date, and the various adjxxx commands haven't been helping out. I'll
> just leave the computer on for a few days and see if it fixes itself
> via whatever the hell it is that ntpd thinks its doing to the hardware
> clock. For what it's worth the securelevel is -1, and ntp.conf has the
> panic 0 option.
>
> System time is totally fine, it's just momentarily in 1904 on boot up.
> Fresh CMOS battery was installed recently.
>   

ntpd won't update the date when it is too far out of sync, you've got to 
run "date". 

Unfortunately I think the formatting of bsd's date is a total pain in 
the axx.   It is so bad that I feel it has gotten you to consider 
compiling C to get at the system libraries.    On linux I've run a bunch of

ssh <remote> date --set \"`date`\"

to set the date of faulty machines.  I just spend a few mins trying to 
figure out how to do the same on FreeBSD and it was non-obvious...

Marco


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Apr 27 17:08:43 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:08:43 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
Message-ID: <A3377913-AC63-4A72-87FC-355AA5C99E36@nomadlogic.org>


On 27-Apr-09, at 1:31 PM, Marco Scoffier wrote:

>
>
> Jesse Callaway wrote:
>> Hey Marc/Brian,
>>
>> Those two pound includes are it so far.
>>
>> Anyway,  it turns out that this header specifies stuff that's for
>> writing kernel code, and can't be used without special treatment. I
>> was definitely barking up the wrong tree.
>>
>> date, and the various adjxxx commands haven't been helping out. I'll
>> just leave the computer on for a few days and see if it fixes itself
>> via whatever the hell it is that ntpd thinks its doing to the  
>> hardware
>> clock. For what it's worth the securelevel is -1, and ntp.conf has  
>> the
>> panic 0 option.
>>
>> System time is totally fine, it's just momentarily in 1904 on boot  
>> up.
>> Fresh CMOS battery was installed recently.
>>
>
> ntpd won't update the date when it is too far out of sync, you've  
> got to
> run "date".
>
hrm i assumed that the iburst keyword in a ntp.conf file would  
compensate for way out of sync clocks.  reading the man page now it  
looks like it just reduces the amount of time it takes to bring a  
system clock back in sync but sending packets more frequently to the  
server.

fwiw - i think you could also use: ntpdate -B my.ntp.server for force  
the system to get back in sync.  the ntpdate man page recommends using  
-b for init scripts (/etc/rc.local for example).

-p



From carton at Ivy.NET  Mon Apr 27 17:14:35 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:14:35 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <49F61632.6080103@metm.org> (Marco Scoffier's message of "Mon,
	27 Apr 2009 16:31:46 -0400")
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
Message-ID: <oqhc09pzno.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "ms" == Marco Scoffier <marco at metm.org> writes:

    ms> trying to figure out how to do the same on FreeBSD and it was
    ms> non-obvious...

rdate works with a simple server built into inetd

ntpdate works with ntp servers but cannot be run while ntpd is
running.  FreeBSD ships with init scripts to run it automatically
before ntpd.

the -g option of ntpd avoids the bashfulness you describe and thus the
need for ntpdate, but was buggy on some versions of ntpd in my
experience.  in /etc/rc.conf:

ntpd_enable="YES"       ntpd_flags="-g"


or the rather silly but equivalent:

ntpd_enable="YES"       ntpd_sync_on_start="YES"


ntpd also has problems if bind is not available when it starts.  It's
supposed to spawn a thread to keep retrying the lookups in the
background and reconfigure ntpd over the ntpdc command channel when
nameservice becomes available, but there are two problems with this:

 * I can't confirm -g continues to work in that case.  -g is supposed
   to apply once, at boot, but preserve sanity checking for
   whacked-out servers after boot.  You can see how a naive
   implementation would mess this up.

 * ntpd uses UDP and needs to control its source address, so it binds
   to individual interfaces.  If not all your interfaces are up before
   ntpd starts, that's a problem.  bind has code to watch the routing
   socket and rebind interfaces that appear, but often gets fucked up
   because of privilege dropping.

 * if you try to ``lock down'' your ntpd by enabling all kinds of
   fancy security, you'll deny access to the background DNS process.
   You have to allow passwordless admin access to 127.0.0.1 for the
   background dns resolver trick to work.

ntpd.conf
-----8<-----
restrict default nomodify
restrict 127.0.0.1      # no restrictions.  needs 'modify' permission 
                        # so ntpd_initres works.
restrict 192.168.2.1 nomodify notrust nopeer  #untrusted ci$co client
-----8<-----


With all this together I've not gotten the whole damn thing to work
smoothly.
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From bonsaime at gmail.com  Mon Apr 27 19:23:41 2009
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:41 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <oqhc09pzno.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org> <oqhc09pzno.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <aa9991030904271623v5e19b324i1558ce6bfb89a629@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Miles Nordin <carton at ivy.net> wrote:
>>>>>> "ms" == Marco Scoffier <marco at metm.org> writes:
>
> ? ?ms> trying to figure out how to do the same on FreeBSD and it was
> ? ?ms> non-obvious...
>
> rdate works with a simple server built into inetd
>
> ntpdate works with ntp servers but cannot be run while ntpd is
> running. ?FreeBSD ships with init scripts to run it automatically
> before ntpd.
>
> the -g option of ntpd avoids the bashfulness you describe and thus the
> need for ntpdate, but was buggy on some versions of ntpd in my
> experience. ?in /etc/rc.conf:
>
> ntpd_enable="YES" ? ? ? ntpd_flags="-g"
>
>
> or the rather silly but equivalent:
>
> ntpd_enable="YES" ? ? ? ntpd_sync_on_start="YES"
>
>
> ntpd also has problems if bind is not available when it starts. ?It's
> supposed to spawn a thread to keep retrying the lookups in the
> background and reconfigure ntpd over the ntpdc command channel when
> nameservice becomes available, but there are two problems with this:
>
> ?* I can't confirm -g continues to work in that case. ?-g is supposed
> ? to apply once, at boot, but preserve sanity checking for
> ? whacked-out servers after boot. ?You can see how a naive
> ? implementation would mess this up.
>
> ?* ntpd uses UDP and needs to control its source address, so it binds
> ? to individual interfaces. ?If not all your interfaces are up before
> ? ntpd starts, that's a problem. ?bind has code to watch the routing
> ? socket and rebind interfaces that appear, but often gets fucked up
> ? because of privilege dropping.
>
> ?* if you try to ``lock down'' your ntpd by enabling all kinds of
> ? fancy security, you'll deny access to the background DNS process.
> ? You have to allow passwordless admin access to 127.0.0.1 for the
> ? background dns resolver trick to work.
>
> ntpd.conf
> -----8<-----
> restrict default nomodify
> restrict 127.0.0.1 ? ? ?# no restrictions. ?needs 'modify' permission
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# so ntpd_initres works.
> restrict 192.168.2.1 nomodify notrust nopeer ?#untrusted ci$co client
> -----8<-----
>
>
> With all this together I've not gotten the whole damn thing to work
> smoothly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>

Hey,

Thanks all. The "system" clock updates pretty quickly given there is
network access.

Anyway, like I said it's all about setting the *hardware* clock so
that it keeps time between boots. Supposedly this just gets set
magically when the system clock gets updated. Now, I noticed that I
don't have an nvram special device file and I wonder if this has
something to do with the issue. I'll take a look and let everyone know
what I come up with.

It's running on a G4 system, so there might be something funny with
the CMOS writeability. The hardware is considered Tier 2 in FreeBSD...
maybe it's time to throw OpenBSD on it.... or Debian ; )

-jesse

-jesse


From akosela at andykosela.com  Tue Apr 28 04:02:22 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:02:22 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <A3377913-AC63-4A72-87FC-355AA5C99E36@nomadlogic.org>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
	<A3377913-AC63-4A72-87FC-355AA5C99E36@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <49f6b80e.3jyO1Z1CUv70IGB1%akosela@andykosela.com>

Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> fwiw - i think you could also use: ntpdate -B my.ntp.server for force  
> the system to get back in sync.  the ntpdate man page recommends using  
> -b for init scripts (/etc/rc.local for example).

I would be careful with issuing 'ntpdate -b' as it uses settimeofday(2)
on production servers.  I remember crashing dovecot and mySQL this way.

--Andy


From techneck at goldenpath.org  Tue Apr 28 09:32:49 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:32:49 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <49F70581.7060609@goldenpath.org>

matt at atopia.net wrote:
> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert or something I can get a call on it. 
>
> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas on good providers for this service. 
>
> M 

Does it technically have to be a phone call, or would SMS suffice?
I think most (if not all?) CSPs provide SMS gateways.
For example:
number at vtext.com

Last I played with it, actually, it accepted email from just about 
everything you'd expect it shouldn't.

They go both ways too, Email to SMS, SMS to Email.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateways


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Tue Apr 28 13:23:04 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:23:04 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <49f6b80e.3jyO1Z1CUv70IGB1%akosela@andykosela.com>
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
	<A3377913-AC63-4A72-87FC-355AA5C99E36@nomadlogic.org>
	<49f6b80e.3jyO1Z1CUv70IGB1%akosela@andykosela.com>
Message-ID: <587F848A-57A6-4500-89DC-460C62CC01C0@nomadlogic.org>


On 28-Apr-09, at 1:02 AM, Andy Kosela wrote:

> Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
>
>> fwiw - i think you could also use: ntpdate -B my.ntp.server for force
>> the system to get back in sync.  the ntpdate man page recommends  
>> using
>> -b for init scripts (/etc/rc.local for example).
>
> I would be careful with issuing 'ntpdate -b' as it uses  
> settimeofday(2)
> on production servers.  I remember crashing dovecot and mySQL this  
> way.
>
oh yea - good point.  not something you'd want to call from rc.local  
eh? :)

-p



From matt at atopia.net  Tue Apr 28 14:08:18 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:08:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <49F70581.7060609@goldenpath.org>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<49F70581.7060609@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0904281408060.23041@pluto.atopia.net>

> Does it technically have to be a phone call, or would SMS suffice?

Phone call is required.  SMS would be easy, it just doesn't wake us up :)


From carton at Ivy.NET  Tue Apr 28 15:21:48 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:21:48 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] sys/systm.h
In-Reply-To: <49f6b80e.3jyO1Z1CUv70IGB1%akosela@andykosela.com> (Andy Kosela's
	message of "Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:02:22 +0200")
References: <aa9991030904242116m20582205ie9a733209c1f1a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<8c50a3c30904252135m4aca7924xdcf60b854aa3b3c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa9991030904271225l19470fbey990273cf32b0d15f@mail.gmail.com>
	<49F61632.6080103@metm.org>
	<A3377913-AC63-4A72-87FC-355AA5C99E36@nomadlogic.org>
	<49f6b80e.3jyO1Z1CUv70IGB1%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<587F848A-57A6-4500-89DC-460C62CC01C0@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <oqzle0oa7n.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "ak" == Andy Kosela <akosela at andykosela.com> writes:
>>>>> "pw" == Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> writes:

    ak> I would be careful with issuing 'ntpdate -b' as it uses
    ak> settimeofday(2) on production servers.  I remember crashing
    ak> dovecot and mySQL this way.

it will also break Quagga adjacencies.  Any program it breaks is
miscoded: there are timer interfaces that work even when the clock is
reset, like setitimer, alarm, and timer_create/timer_settime with
CLOCK_MONOTONIC.  but a lot of these old BASIC programmers just
gettimeofday, add five minutes, set an alarm clock.  quagga has a
whole baroque abstracted timer factory inside it coded upon this
foolish foundation, and integrated to their Windows 3.1-style
cooperative threading model.  If they were cooking eggs in their
kitchen they would know better than to do something so dumb (since not
every clock in the house will agree), but for some reason when they
sit down at a keyboard they ``just want to get things done'' and if
the eggs come out right one time their eyes glaze over and they go off
to snarf down some more chocolate ice cream.

to be fair, the Quagga maintainer, he was like ``good point.  we don't
have the timer_create on all OS we support, but it could be rewritten
with setitimer, which would not stop the synchronization of hello
messages but at least would make it robust to clock resets.  do it and
I'll import it.'' and I never did it---I just take care when resetting
the clock on nodes that run Quagga because sysadmining around this
nest of problems is easy and programming is hard.  also I wasn't
really interested in rewriting it from one broken interfacec to
another.  I wanted to write it in timer_create to fix the HELLO
message synchronization problem, and he made it clear that patch would
not be accepted.  but...yeah...laziness.  :(

    pw> oh yea - good point.  not something you'd want to call from
    pw> rc.local eh? :)

no, Pete, you're missing the point.  That's exactly where you do want
to call it, before dovecot and mysql and quagga and other fragile
programs are started.  What you arguably should not do, is emulate
these ex-auto-mechanics who fire off rdate every five minutes from
cron because they ran into one of ntpd's failsafes, didn't understand
why it was put there, and no longer trust ntpd.

not that i trust ntpd.  but...yeah...i think you should use ntpd!

just...maybe have some other auto-mechanic-like mechanism to alert you
when clocks are off, instead of trusting ntpd will let you forget
about clocks, because ntpd seems to have all kinds of reasons for
silently failing, some legitimate some not.
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From brian.gupta at gmail.com  Tue Apr 28 20:59:43 2009
From: brian.gupta at gmail.com (Brian Gupta)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:59:43 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: email 2 phone services
In-Reply-To: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1709017503-1240593810-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1152625368-@bxe1247.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5b5090780904281759x353e9790ka6dfe81d73232435@mail.gmail.com>

Matt, I looked into an email to phone call option, but it didn't seem feasible.

What we ended up doing to solve this problem was to go old school.   I
got Skytel pagers for my team. They are loud and realert
unacknowledged messages. (It takes serious effort to sleep through
these, if you have the volume on max). If you go this route, you are
gonna want to track down Motorola T900s, as the new pagers they are
selling aren't nearly as loud and don't have the battery life of the
T900s. (The T900s are almost always available on Ebay for very cheap).

If you want together, maybe at a puppet meeting, I can demo the pager for you.

Cheers,
Brian

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:24 PM,  <matt at atopia.net> wrote:
> I need an email 2 phone service so that if nagios spits out an alert or something I can get a call on it.
>
> I found email2phone.net but I am wondering if others have any ideas on good providers for this service.
>
> M
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>




-- 
- Brian Gupta

New York City user groups calendar:
http://nyc.brandorr.com/