From bonsaime at gmail.com  Mon Jun  1 08:49:54 2009
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:49:54 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
In-Reply-To: <cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <534a4cab0905280808q61981612ge6c16aed2c064712@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU149-W57DFCC850C5B5A3974E7CEAC500@phx.gbl>
	<aa9991030905280851s6ae33f6cj894240d9992b0a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <aa9991030906010549t5a6cec37lc07d1accf90c10e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Francisco Reyes
<lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> Jesse Callaway writes:
>
>> Hey, I'll take the exam with you. Now we need 2 more people.
>
> I am interested..
> Now we need only one more. :-)
>


Awesome. Anyone interested?

-jesse


From cwolsen at ubixos.com  Tue Jun  2 11:38:19 2009
From: cwolsen at ubixos.com (Christopher Olsen)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:38:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
In-Reply-To: <aa9991030906010549t5a6cec37lc07d1accf90c10e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <534a4cab0905280808q61981612ge6c16aed2c064712@mail.gmail.com>	<BLU149-W57DFCC850C5B5A3974E7CEAC500@phx.gbl>	<aa9991030905280851s6ae33f6cj894240d9992b0a5@mail.gmail.com>	<cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<aa9991030906010549t5a6cec37lc07d1accf90c10e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ef01c9e398$2907a1f0$7b16e5d0$@com>

Are you guys still looking for one more person?

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nycbug.org]
On Behalf Of Jesse Callaway
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:50 AM
To: Francisco Reyes
Cc: talk at lists.nycbug.org; michael.bubb at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Francisco Reyes
<lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> Jesse Callaway writes:
>
>> Hey, I'll take the exam with you. Now we need 2 more people.
>
> I am interested..
> Now we need only one more. :-)
>


Awesome. Anyone interested?

-jesse
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From drulavigne at sympatico.ca  Tue Jun  2 11:55:47 2009
From: drulavigne at sympatico.ca (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:55:47 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c9e398$2907a1f0$7b16e5d0$@com>
References: <534a4cab0905280808q61981612ge6c16aed2c064712@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU149-W57DFCC850C5B5A3974E7CEAC500@phx.gbl>
	<aa9991030905280851s6ae33f6cj894240d9992b0a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
	<aa9991030906010549t5a6cec37lc07d1accf90c10e0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<00ef01c9e398$2907a1f0$7b16e5d0$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU149-W378B4BF09D008F887F857AAC4D0@phx.gbl>



> 
> Are you guys still looking for one more person?


Definitely. The more the merrier :-)

Dru
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090602/997f26b1/attachment.htm>

From akosela at andykosela.com  Wed Jun  3 03:20:09 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:20:09 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] DBSlayer
Message-ID: <4a262429.hySYu/PH5AsKAetC%akosela@andykosela.com>

Anyone been using DBSlayer in a production environment?

 http://code.nytimes.com/projects/dbslayer

It's the open source lightweight database abstraction layer for
high-load websites developed by New York Times.  Seems to be very
interesting project aiming to load balance backend MySQL DB's.

--Andy


From sjt.kar at gmail.com  Wed Jun  3 04:11:08 2009
From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit Karataparambil)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:41:08 +0530
Subject: [nycbug-talk] DBSlayer
In-Reply-To: <4a262429.hySYu/PH5AsKAetC%akosela@andykosela.com>
References: <4a262429.hySYu/PH5AsKAetC%akosela@andykosela.com>
Message-ID: <921ca19c0906030111y2e814eq87b714b0156aeabf@mail.gmail.com>

Seems slightly offtopic.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/meta-acc/

Another project with which I am an Project Admin.
I have close to 15 Projects hosted at source forge.
But none have been able to give any sort of code or
design.

Currently Looking for help. Both interms of Hardware(with
sf removing the compile farms)  and technical.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Andy Kosela <akosela at andykosela.com> wrote:
> Anyone been using DBSlayer in a production environment?
>
> ?http://code.nytimes.com/projects/dbslayer
>
> It's the open source lightweight database abstraction layer for
> high-load websites developed by New York Times. ?Seems to be very
> interesting project aiming to load balance backend MySQL DB's.
>
> --Andy
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
-- Sujit K M


From cwolsen at ubixos.com  Wed Jun  3 06:52:15 2009
From: cwolsen at ubixos.com (Christopher Olsen)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:52:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] colo
Message-ID: <200906031056.n53Au6w8010954@fulton.nycbug.org>

Does anyone recommend a good colo somewhere here in manhattan or one of the other boroughs?

-Christopher

Ubix Technologies
T: 212-514-6270
C: 516-903-2889
32 Broadway Suite 204
New York, NY 10004
http://www.tuve.tv/mrolsen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090603/15c8af3b/attachment.htm>

From mikel.king at olivent.com  Wed Jun  3 07:29:18 2009
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:29:18 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] colo
In-Reply-To: <200906031056.n53Au6w8010954@fulton.nycbug.org>
References: <200906031056.n53Au6w8010954@fulton.nycbug.org>
Message-ID: <F5C25DF1-261E-4329-9569-31AA1127FBBB@olivent.com>

Pilosoft

If you need their contact info hit me off list.

Cheers,
m!

On Jun 3, 2009, at 6:52, Christopher Olsen <cwolsen at ubixos.com> wrote:

> Does anyone recommend a good colo somewhere here in manhattan or one  
> of the other boroughs?
>
> -Christopher
>
> Ubix Technologies
> T: 212-514-6270
> C: 516-903-2889
> 32 Broadway Suite 204
> New York, NY 10004
> http://www.tuve.tv/mrolsen
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090603/384d56ad/attachment.htm>

From akosela at andykosela.com  Wed Jun  3 08:34:19 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:34:19 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] colo
In-Reply-To: <F5C25DF1-261E-4329-9569-31AA1127FBBB@olivent.com>
References: <200906031056.n53Au6w8010954@fulton.nycbug.org>
	<F5C25DF1-261E-4329-9569-31AA1127FBBB@olivent.com>
Message-ID: <4a266dcb.TZ043FI91+IOm4Q3%akosela@andykosela.com>

> On Jun 3, 2009, at 6:52, Christopher Olsen <cwolsen at ubixos.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone recommend a good colo somewhere here in manhattan or one  
> > of the other boroughs?

I would go with NYI, a very solid hosting company which uses primarily
FreeBSD.

--Andy


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jun  3 11:51:59 2009
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:51:59 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article
Message-ID: <4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com>

I know this was posted to /., but it's well worth posting and 
discussing, IMHO.

http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/06/virtual-failure-yippiemove-switches-from-vmware-to-freebsd-jails/

And here's the tinyurl for those who prefer :)

http://tinyurl.com/msvljj

(sorry, had to drop that joke in there)

The conclusion to draw about this article is simple to me: there's no 
perfect solution to virtualization. . . it depends on your needs.

FreeBSD jails are great in terms of system demands. . . . Drop 20 jails 
on a P4 and 4 gig of RAM, each with their own IP, and no problems.

Can you imagine doing that with other virtualization software like 
VMWare, with 20 instances, on those specs?

Jails are the right solution for certain scenarios. . . and I think the 
virtualization debates and discussions tend to compare apples to, er, 
live chickens.

g


From alex at pilosoft.com  Wed Jun  3 12:10:42 2009
From: alex at pilosoft.com (Alex Pilosov)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 12:10:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article
In-Reply-To: <4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0906031206380.15122-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, George Rosamond wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/msvljj
> 
> (sorry, had to drop that joke in there)
> 
> The conclusion to draw about this article is simple to me: there's no
> perfect solution to virtualization. . . it depends on your needs.
Hiring the right people. The post reeks of reckless cluelessness. 

keywords: "huge pile of files" and "hundreds of thousands of files in a 
single folder" then moving to "sqlite over nfs". that's the dailywtf 
material - someone who does this can't be trusted to understand 
virtualization. Then, their best case ended up in 2.5Mbit/s? wtfwtf.

-alex



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jun  3 12:13:48 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:13:48 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article
In-Reply-To: <4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <FFDC2AEA-70FB-4BF1-A8BA-4BD55D1AAD4C@nomadlogic.org>


On 3-Jun-09, at 8:51 AM, George Rosamond wrote:

> I know this was posted to /., but it's well worth posting and
> discussing, IMHO.
>
> http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/06/virtual-failure-yippiemove-switches-from-vmware-to-freebsd-jails/
>
> And here's the tinyurl for those who prefer :)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/msvljj
>
> (sorry, had to drop that joke in there)
>
> The conclusion to draw about this article is simple to me: there's no
> perfect solution to virtualization. . . it depends on your needs.
>
> FreeBSD jails are great in terms of system demands. . . . Drop 20  
> jails
> on a P4 and 4 gig of RAM, each with their own IP, and no problems.
>
> Can you imagine doing that with other virtualization software like
> VMWare, with 20 instances, on those specs?
>
> Jails are the right solution for certain scenarios. . . and I think  
> the
> virtualization debates and discussions tend to compare apples to, er,
> live chickens.


hear hear!  that was an interesting article for sure and you bring up  
a really good point about how hypervisors and jail's fill pretty much  
separate roles...

as an aside there is some fun code comming up in freebsd-8 for  
jailsv2.  the ability to have multiple IP's per jail was one of the  
ones that i think i remember reading about...


-p


From mikel.king at olivent.com  Wed Jun  3 13:19:13 2009
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:19:13 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article
In-Reply-To: 4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com
Message-ID: <20090603171913.72c46493@mail.olivent.com>

_____  

From: George Rosamond [mailto:george at ceetonetechnology.com]
To: NYCBUG [mailto:talk at lists.nycbug.org]
Sent: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:51:59 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article

I know this was posted to /., but it's well worth posting and 
  discussing, IMHO.
  
  http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/06/virtual-failure-yippiemove-switches-from-vmware-to-freebsd-jails/
  
  And here's the tinyurl for those who prefer :)
  
  http://tinyurl.com/msvljj
  
  (sorry, had to drop that joke in there)
  
  The conclusion to draw about this article is simple to me: there's no 
  perfect solution to virtualization. . . it depends on your needs.
  
  FreeBSD jails are great in terms of system demands. . . . Drop 20 jails 
  on a P4 and 4 gig of RAM, each with their own IP, and no problems.
  
  Can you imagine doing that with other virtualization software like 
  VMWare, with 20 instances, on those specs?
  
  Jails are the right solution for certain scenarios. . . and I think the 
  virtualization debates and discussions tend to compare apples to, er, 
  live chickens.
  
  g
The technical issues aside I think overall the sentiment is good, as it does advocate FreeBSD over other potential contenders. 

I'm still flummoxed about the sqlite3 over NFS. I would just never consider that as an option but that's me.

Regards,
Mikel King
CEO, Olivent Technologies
Senior Editor, Daemon News
Columnist, BSD Magazine
6 Alpine Court,
Medford, NY 11763
o: 631.627.3055
skype:mikel.king

http://mikelking.com
http://twitter.com/mikelking
    
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090603/2f5f0670/attachment.htm>

From carton at Ivy.NET  Wed Jun  3 13:30:30 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:30:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] jail article
In-Reply-To: <FFDC2AEA-70FB-4BF1-A8BA-4BD55D1AAD4C@nomadlogic.org> (Pete
	Wright's message of "Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:13:48 -0700")
References: <4A269C1F.10001@ceetonetechnology.com>
	<FFDC2AEA-70FB-4BF1-A8BA-4BD55D1AAD4C@nomadlogic.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0906031206380.15122-100000@bawx.pilosoft.com>
Message-ID: <oqab4p8bt5.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "pw" == Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> writes:
>>>>> "ap" == Alex Pilosov <alex at pilosoft.com> writes:

    pw> hear hear!  that was an interesting article for sure and you
    pw> bring up a really good point about how hypervisors and jail's
    pw> fill pretty much separate

    ap> The post reeks of reckless cluelessness.

    ap> keywords: "huge pile of files" and "hundreds of thousands of
    ap> files in a single folder" then moving to "sqlite over
    ap> nfs". that's the dailywtf material - someone who does this
    ap> can't be trusted to understand virtualization. Then, their
    ap> best case ended up in 2.5Mbit/s? wtfwtf.

+1 alex.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 304 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090603/ae6af19a/attachment.bin>

From mark.saad at ymail.com  Thu Jun  4 13:11:35 2009
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (mark.saad at ymail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:11:35 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soft updates
Message-ID: <53602773-1244135479-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-141029431-@bxe1020.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hey.  
  Why do you not want to Have soft updates on / . I can,t remember the exact reason why this was bad , can someone educate me . 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



From nikolai at fetissov.org  Thu Jun  4 13:23:30 2009
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:23:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] June 2009 meeting audio
Message-ID: <aa64c9647d657623b4a7a62319812742.squirrel@geekisp.com>

Folks,

Recording of Jan Schaumann's presentation is online at
http://www.fetissov.org/public/nycbug/nycbug-06-03-09.mp3

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai




From jschauma at netmeister.org  Thu Jun  4 15:53:26 2009
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:53:26 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] June 2009 meeting audio
In-Reply-To: <aa64c9647d657623b4a7a62319812742.squirrel@geekisp.com>
References: <aa64c9647d657623b4a7a62319812742.squirrel@geekisp.com>
Message-ID: <20090604195326.GA9256@netmeister.org>

nikolai <nikolai at fetissov.org> wrote:
 
> Recording of Jan Schaumann's presentation is online at
> http://www.fetissov.org/public/nycbug/nycbug-06-03-09.mp3

The slides to go along with this are at:
http://www.netmeister.org/misc/bbt.pdf

-Jan
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 186 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090604/86492e15/attachment.bin>

From lists at stringsutils.com  Thu Jun  4 18:58:56 2009
From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes)
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:58:56 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meta-acc ( was DBSlayer)
References: <4a262429.hySYu/PH5AsKAetC%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<921ca19c0906030111y2e814eq87b714b0156aeabf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cone.1244156336.310588.68593.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>

Sujit Karataparambil writes:

> Seems slightly offtopic.
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/meta-acc/
> Another project with which I am an Project Admin.


The description doesn't quite say enough..

Information : Meta Data Accelator is way to accelarate meta data 
translation, look up, data binding on database.

Can you expand on what it is meta-acc does?


From thomas at zaph.org  Thu Jun  4 21:35:00 2009
From: thomas at zaph.org (N.J. Thomas)
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:35:00 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soft updates
In-Reply-To: <53602773-1244135479-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-141029431-@bxe1020.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <53602773-1244135479-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-141029431-@bxe1020.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <20090605013500.GV9250@zaph.org>

* <mark.saad at ymail.com> [2009-06-04 17:11:35+0000]:
> Why do you not want to Have soft updates on / . I can't remember the
> exact reason why this was bad, can someone educate me. 

I believe the reason was that if there is a crash, a partition that has
softupdates turned on would be susceptible to data corruption.

The standard reply to this is that your root partition should be small
and you shouldn't really be writing anything to it anyways, so some
folks say it is okay to turn it on for the root partition.

For production machines, I leave softupdates turned off for the root
partition.

Thomas


From sjt.kar at gmail.com  Fri Jun  5 01:32:17 2009
From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit Karataparambil)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:02:17 +0530
Subject: [nycbug-talk] meta-acc ( was DBSlayer)
In-Reply-To: <cone.1244156336.310588.68593.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <4a262429.hySYu/PH5AsKAetC%akosela@andykosela.com>
	<921ca19c0906030111y2e814eq87b714b0156aeabf@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1244156336.310588.68593.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <921ca19c0906042232w49c55c4dhb8ae51297970747e@mail.gmail.com>

The project is still in pre planning stage. As the team member have been trying
to give an definition? Is it possible? dont know.

The project aims at creating an library based on Hibernate/JDBC/ADO.NET/ACE
for example in Java/Windows/Unix environment the effort is to reduce an look up
of an database query from the Meta Data level for example an Hibernate
query to plain native query by creating an plug in code to translate
the look up. Very Similar to DBSlayer. This intends to be done purely
in C,C++ and some amount of java.

Also the project aims at making UML based design porting at a much easier.
It intends to support argouml based design development much simpler.
Also intends to support an uml based project with code in c,c++,java.


On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:28 AM, Francisco Reyes<lists at stringsutils.com> wrote:
> Sujit Karataparambil writes:
>
>> Seems slightly offtopic.
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/meta-acc/
>> Another project with which I am an Project Admin.
>
>
> The description doesn't quite say enough..
>
> Information : Meta Data Accelator is way to accelarate meta data
> translation, look up, data binding on database.
>
> Can you expand on what it is meta-acc does?
>



-- 
-- Sujit K M


From carton at Ivy.NET  Fri Jun  5 03:45:09 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:45:09 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Soft updates
In-Reply-To: <20090605013500.GV9250@zaph.org> (N.J. Thomas's message of "Thu,
	4 Jun 2009 21:35:00 -0400")
References: <53602773-1244135479-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-141029431-@bxe1020.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<20090605013500.GV9250@zaph.org>
Message-ID: <oqhbyv5dkq.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "njt" == N J Thomas <thomas at zaph.org> writes:

   njt> I believe the reason was that if there is a crash, a partition
   njt> that has softupdates turned on would be susceptible to data
   njt> corruption.

nope, that's incorrect.  softupdates reduces slightly, does not
increase, crash corruption exposure.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 304 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090605/225ae3ac/attachment.bin>

From drulavigne at sympatico.ca  Fri Jun  5 11:08:22 2009
From: drulavigne at sympatico.ca (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:08:22 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?
Message-ID: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>


BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in the next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A format, perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the exam is doing so far or how to host an exam event.

Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?

Does anyone have the time and interest to help write the column? The one for this issue needs to be written by the 15th.

Cheers,

Dru
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090605/0dff0daa/attachment.htm>

From mikel.king at olivent.com  Fri Jun  5 11:31:48 2009
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:31:48 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] =?iso-8859-1?q?questions_for_BSDCG=3F?=
In-Reply-To: BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl
Message-ID: <20090605153148.f7af0f03@mail.olivent.com>

I'd be happy to collate the Q & A and edit it into an article if sent to me in time for the dead line.


Regards,
Mikel King
CEO, Olivent Technologies
Senior Editor, Daemon News
Columnist, BSD Magazine
6 Alpine Court,
Medford, NY 11763
o: 631.627.3055
skype:mikel.king

http://mikelking.com
http://twitter.com/mikelking


----- Original Message -----
From: Dru Lavigne
[mailto:drulavigne at sympatico.ca]
To: talk at lists.nycbug.org
Sent: Fri, 05 Jun
2009 11:08:22 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?


> 
> BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in the
> next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A format,
> perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the exam is doing so
> far or how to host an exam event.
> 
> Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?
> 
> Does anyone have the time and interest to help write the column? The one for
> this issue needs to be written by the 15th.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dru
> 


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Fri Jun  5 11:40:19 2009
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:40:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?
In-Reply-To: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9F985601-9C47-4983-9675-22EBAEE61D65@ymail.com>

Dru
   Has anyone done a comparison of the BSDA, and LPIC Certs ? I think  
that would be helpful for managers who are not familiar with the BSDA  
and what it covers . I am not sure if thats too much to cover in a QA  
article but Ido think it would be helpful.

On Jun 5, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dru Lavigne wrote:

> BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in  
> the next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A  
> format, perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the  
> exam is doing so far or how to host an exam event.
>
> Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?
>
> Does anyone have the time and interest to help write the column? The  
> one for this issue needs to be written by the 15th.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dru
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mark Saad
mark.saad at ymail.com




From mark.saad at ymail.com  Fri Jun  5 11:32:24 2009
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:32:24 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
In-Reply-To: <cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
References: <534a4cab0905280808q61981612ge6c16aed2c064712@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU149-W57DFCC850C5B5A3974E7CEAC500@phx.gbl>
	<aa9991030905280851s6ae33f6cj894240d9992b0a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net>
Message-ID: <C74D4BAB-3109-4AD4-98D9-DA4C54CC89D0@ymail.com>

I would like to take part in this  too. What do I need to do ?

On May 29, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote:

> Jesse Callaway writes:
>
>> Hey, I'll take the exam with you. Now we need 2 more people.
>
> I am interested..
> Now we need only one more. :-)
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mark Saad
mark.saad at ymail.com




From drulavigne at sympatico.ca  Fri Jun  5 12:02:37 2009
From: drulavigne at sympatico.ca (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:02:37 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
In-Reply-To: <C74D4BAB-3109-4AD4-98D9-DA4C54CC89D0@ymail.com>
References: <534a4cab0905280808q61981612ge6c16aed2c064712@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU149-W57DFCC850C5B5A3974E7CEAC500@phx.gbl>
	<aa9991030905280851s6ae33f6cj894240d9992b0a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<cone.1243614999.496464.25331.1000@zoraida.natserv.net> 
	<C74D4BAB-3109-4AD4-98D9-DA4C54CC89D0@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU149-W42678CC22907A47B476A14AC480@phx.gbl>


We're just confirming the date and location. Once that is settled, the event will be added to the registration website and I'll make an announcement on-list.

Cheers,

Dru

> From: mark.saad at ymail.com
> To: lists at stringsutils.com
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:32:24 -0400
> CC: talk at lists.nycbug.org; michael.bubb at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] nycbsdcon / certification exams
> 
> I would like to take part in this  too. What do I need to do ?
> 
> On May 29, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> 
> > Jesse Callaway writes:
> >
> >> Hey, I'll take the exam with you. Now we need 2 more people.
> >
> > I am interested..
> > Now we need only one more. :-)
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090605/f7dba18c/attachment.htm>

From drulavigne at sympatico.ca  Fri Jun  5 12:04:13 2009
From: drulavigne at sympatico.ca (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:04:13 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?
In-Reply-To: <9F985601-9C47-4983-9675-22EBAEE61D65@ymail.com>
References: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
	<9F985601-9C47-4983-9675-22EBAEE61D65@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU149-W40EE3BD2E0663BF6111AFCAC480@phx.gbl>


That is a good idea, I'll do some research for the article and take Mikel up on his offer to help put it together.

Cheers,

Dru


> Dru
>    Has anyone done a comparison of the BSDA, and LPIC Certs ? I think  
> that would be helpful for managers who are not familiar with the BSDA  
> and what it covers . I am not sure if thats too much to cover in a QA  
> article but Ido think it would be helpful.
> 
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dru Lavigne wrote:
> 
> > BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in  
> > the next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A  
> > format, perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the  
> > exam is doing so far or how to host an exam event.
> >
> > Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?
> >
> > Does anyone have the time and interest to help write the column? The  
> > one for this issue needs to be written by the 15th.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dru
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090605/ef5234e5/attachment.htm>

From spork at bway.net  Fri Jun  5 17:17:31 2009
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:17:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?
In-Reply-To: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0906051716300.5939@office-dhcp-35.bway.net>

On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Dru Lavigne wrote:

>
> BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in the next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A format, perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the exam is doing so far or how to host an exam event.
>
> Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?

Are there still two competing BSD certification groups?  If so, what's the 
difference?

Are there any success stories or any sightings of job listings "in the 
wild" that specifically call for any BSD certs?

Charles

> Does anyone have the time and interest to help write the column? The one for this issue needs to be written by the 15th.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dru
>


From matt at atopia.net  Sat Jun  6 19:11:32 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 19:11:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Extended Status
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906061906020.92718@pluto.atopia.net>

I am having trouble getting ExtendedStatus in apache working with FreeBSD. 
I installed apache 2.2.11 from ports, enabled httpd-info.conf in 
httpd.conf, and edited it including turning extended status on. However, 
the only thing that shows is the normal status, not the extended status.

Here's the output of http://server.com/server-status: 
http://pastebin.com/m3c09ce18

Here's the output verifying I have httpd-info.conf enabled: 
http://pastebin.com/m421b1200

Here's my httpd-info.conf file:
http://pastebin.com/m48cdaf53

I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't work.  Could someone who has 
the apache22 port installed perhaps check the size of their mod_status.so 
or something so I can compare?  I'm at a loss here.

Thanks,

Matt


From akosela at andykosela.com  Sun Jun  7 08:19:06 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:19:06 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] questions for BSDCG?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0906051716300.5939@office-dhcp-35.bway.net>
References: <BLU149-W385B6B984FDEA5F07383C6AC480@phx.gbl>
	<alpine.OSX.2.00.0906051716300.5939@office-dhcp-35.bway.net>
Message-ID: <4a2bb03a.qyhnqMC/dSH6am2b%akosela@andykosela.com>

Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Dru Lavigne wrote:
>
> >
> > BSDMag has offered space for a column regarding BSD certification in 
> >the next issue of the mag. We were thinking of writing it in a Q&A 
> >format, perhaps discussing such things as an overview of how the exam
> >is doing so far or how to host an exam event.
> >
> > Does anyone have any questions they'd like to see answered?
>
> Are there still two competing BSD certification groups?  If so, what's the 
> difference?
>
> Are there any success stories or any sightings of job listings "in the 
> wild" that specifically call for any BSD certs?

Yes, I am interested in that part too.  As far as todays trends go,
everybody, especially in the enterprise sector is using RHEL or Windows
Server on x86.  I haven't heard recently any stories about how FreeBSD
is used to power enterprise servers.  Even Yahoo! seems to use a lot of
Linux nowadays.  Lack of support from major hardware vendors like HP,
Dell, IBM, Oracle/Sun seems to kill FreeBSD as an operating system
platform.  It still performs well in network/embedded appliances market
though.  Juniper, Nokia and Cisco are constantly looking for FreeBSD
kernel hackers, but probably even they are using RHEL and/or Windows to
power their system servers and databases.

BSD Certification efforts are a move towards positive direction, but
what we need is an official or even unofficial support from some major
hardware vendors, so companies will once again start thinking about
deploying FreeBSD as in the late nineties.  I remember the times when
sendmail and apache groups were specifically recommending FreeBSD over
Linux.

HP recently started supporting Debian, they even had FreeBSD as one of
their systems in the testdrive program, although it has been recently
shut down.

I spoke to some HP engineers about the trends inside HP, and they told
me they are trying to create standards across the the whole company
based on three operating systems: HP-UX, Windows and RHEL, both on
Itanium and x86.  That means they are very committed to Linux and it
seems very unlikely they will ever support any other open source Unix.

Is FreeBSD going to face similar fate as NetBSD or some other even more
exotic niche operating systems?
 

--Andy


From tekronis at gmail.com  Sun Jun  7 13:42:15 2009
From: tekronis at gmail.com (H. G.)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:42:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Auto-Deployment Solutions
Message-ID: <60131f920906071042u60e6c93dyd1d9427989dcaf19@mail.gmail.com>

Rehat has Kickstart, SuSE has AutoYast, Solaris has Jumpstart..... what are
our options for BSD?
Just curious here....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090607/292afbde/attachment.htm>

From akosela at andykosela.com  Sun Jun  7 14:00:31 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:00:31 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Auto-Deployment Solutions
In-Reply-To: <60131f920906071042u60e6c93dyd1d9427989dcaf19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60131f920906071042u60e6c93dyd1d9427989dcaf19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a2c003f.uL2JE6KC7WjLLByJ%akosela@andykosela.com>

"H. G." <tekronis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rehat has Kickstart, SuSE has AutoYast, Solaris has Jumpstart..... what are
> our options for BSD?
> Just curious here....

man sysinstall

Booting FreeBSD via PXE is also working very nicely.  It usually takes
much less time to netinstall FreeBSD than RedHat. 

--Andy


From carton at Ivy.NET  Sun Jun  7 22:38:53 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:38:53 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Auto-Deployment Solutions
In-Reply-To: <60131f920906071042u60e6c93dyd1d9427989dcaf19@mail.gmail.com> (H.
	G.'s message of "Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:42:15 -0400")
References: <60131f920906071042u60e6c93dyd1d9427989dcaf19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <oqtz2r4fgi.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "hg" == H G <tekronis at gmail.com> writes:

    hg> Rehat has Kickstart, SuSE has AutoYast, Solaris has Jumpstart

haven't used the other two but Jumpstart is a pain in my ass.  It's
very possible to install Solaris by:

 1. netboot installee off another Solaris box

 2. partition disk, installboot, then fssnap+ufsrestore or 'zfs recv'
    filesystem from any other working Solaris box

however you cannot get the ufsdump / 'zfs send' image in any trivial
way---the only way to unlock the bits is to cold-boot the installer on
raw hardware, or use liveupgrade.  Instead of being a simple .tar.gz,
the distribution format of Solaris is a mess of SVR4 packages with
dependencies expressed in multiple legacy ways---for example you must
install in ``package cluster'' granularity, then individual packages
depend on each other in some way noted within the package but
incompletely, then there are ``language options'' (which are further
grouped into ``geographic'' clusters), and finally it matters in what
*ORDER* the packages are installed because they have pre/post-install
shell scripts that do arbitrarily complicated things.  

Jumpstart is this repository of rickety ancient abandonware that
accomplishes all these hairy rules to turn a wheelbarrow of chaotic
packages into, basically, a .tar.gz of '/'.  If it really did JUST
this transformation, .iso -> .tar, it would merely be baroque and
silly, but it does more---it checks for disk space, partition layout,
``non-removeable'' disks (which are defined in a completely arbitrary
way and completely orthogonal to ``hot swap''), amount of free RAM,
u.s.w., and it insists on running on a cold-booted machine not from a
shell prompt.  The whole thing looks to me like an excuse to keep QA
people employed.

Once you've jumpstarted one system, it's totally possible to
sys-unconfig it and replicate it onto other systems using
tar/cpio/dumprestore/sendrecv.  You can do it yourself with no help
from their ``tools'', but they even have an official (cpio-based I
think) facility for doing this called FLAR.  Jumpstart can use flar,
but does not have to.  The fact that both FLAR and jumpstart exist, I
find the height of ridiculousness---if you have FLAR already,
jumpstart ought to be made out of:

 1. an understandable set of commands for installing from [bag of
    packages] into /export/newsystem

 2. FLAR, with ability to create archives from /export/newsystem

however this is not the case!

but whatever.  In Germany you have to do a 5-year apprenticeship to
sweep chimneys, and here you have to learn Jumpstart and FLAR to get a
Solaris job.  I did both in one saturday.  complete waste of time.
all moy Solaris boxes running now are made from 
ufsdump/ufsrestore/installboot media, on filesystems and partition
layouts that the official installer would reject.

oh did i mention there is also liveupgrade.

and for opensolaris they have thrown out the whole bag of this stuff
(jumpstart, flar, and liveupgrade) and replaced it with some ian
murdock retardedness that installs systems which are missing all kinds
of man pages.

these tools are meant to pander to retards, and it's really a disaster
for everyone else.  don't wish for same.  just wish for proper pxe
booting and the possibility to install into a chroot.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 304 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090607/a240bc8c/attachment.bin>

From drulavigne at sympatico.ca  Sat Jun 13 10:28:16 2009
From: drulavigne at sympatico.ca (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:28:16 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDA exam in NYC
Message-ID: <BLU149-W460CA7401BD6507912AE75AC400@phx.gbl>


Hi all,

We've confirmed the date for the BSDA exam as August 2 and the event listing is here:

https://register.bsdcertification.org//register/events/nycbug

You can register and pay for the exam on the same website. I'll be proctoring the exam and look forward to seeing several of you on the 2nd.

Cheers,

Dru
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090613/a1b1e549/attachment.htm>

From techneck at goldenpath.org  Tue Jun 16 14:28:45 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:28:45 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
Message-ID: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>

Scenario:
spamd blacklisting from foreign.txt source file with a list of all 
non-US IP space.
Problem:
Occasionally we spark up a new non-US vendor relationship and need to 
receive email from their email servers but their IP addresses have been 
blacklisted in foreign.txt
Solution:
Subtract their IPs / ISPs netblock from the /8 entry.
Currently, I do this by hand. Googling for network calculators spits 
back a ton of tools that calculate subnets but none of which do this 
sort of network subtraction.
If anyone is aware of such a tool, please share.

Example:
       89 .  0 .  0 .  0   /8
-      89 .208 .106 .  0   /24
-------------------------------



89.0.0.0/9
89.128.0.0/10
89.192.0.0/12
89.208.0.0/18
89.208.128.0/18
89.208.192.0/18
89.208.64.0/19
89.208.96.0/21
89.208.104.0/24
89.208.105.0/24
89.208.107.0/24
89.208.108.0/24
89.208.109.0/24
89.208.110.0/24
89.208.111.0/24
89.208.112.0/20
89.224.0.0/11


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090616/51e718be/attachment.htm>

From techneck at goldenpath.org  Tue Jun 16 16:44:47 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:44:47 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>

Tim A. wrote:
> Scenario:
> spamd blacklisting from foreign.txt source file with a list of all 
> non-US IP space.
> Problem:
> Occasionally we spark up a new non-US vendor relationship and need to 
> receive email from their email servers but their IP addresses have 
> been blacklisted in foreign.txt
> Solution:
> Subtract their IPs / ISPs netblock from the /8 entry.
> Currently, I do this by hand. Googling for network calculators spits 
> back a ton of tools that calculate subnets but none of which do this 
> sort of network subtraction.
> If anyone is aware of such a tool, please share.

Found a python tool called netaddr:
/usr/ports/net/py-netaddr

Just FYI, in case it helps anyone else out there.

I was thinking more of a nifty multi-platform (and windows too) GUI 
tool, but this gets the job done, amen.


From mspitzer at gmail.com  Tue Jun 16 16:56:31 2009
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:56:31 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org> <4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just run a white list as well as a black list, if its in both
white wins.  Makes auditing easier as well

Marc

On 6/16/09, Tim A. <techneck at goldenpath.org> wrote:
> Tim A. wrote:
>> Scenario:
>> spamd blacklisting from foreign.txt source file with a list of all
>> non-US IP space.
>> Problem:
>> Occasionally we spark up a new non-US vendor relationship and need to
>> receive email from their email servers but their IP addresses have
>> been blacklisted in foreign.txt
>> Solution:
>> Subtract their IPs / ISPs netblock from the /8 entry.
>> Currently, I do this by hand. Googling for network calculators spits
>> back a ton of tools that calculate subnets but none of which do this
>> sort of network subtraction.
>> If anyone is aware of such a tool, please share.
>
> Found a python tool called netaddr:
> /usr/ports/net/py-netaddr
>
> Just FYI, in case it helps anyone else out there.
>
> I was thinking more of a nifty multi-platform (and windows too) GUI
> tool, but this gets the job done, amen.
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Albert Camus


From techneck at goldenpath.org  Tue Jun 16 17:46:07 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:46:07 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org> <4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>
	<8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org>

Marc Spitzer wrote:
> Why not just run a white list as well as a black list, if its in both
> white wins.  Makes auditing easier as well
>
> Marc

Thats what I expected to do. They are whitelisted. I'm using pfsense
though and for some reason spamd (on pfsense) is not working like that.

It doesn't offer blacklist-only option via the GUI, I fiddle with the
startup script after reboot to set it to blacklist mode (they get
generated via pfsense configs on bootup).
Because... although most spammers won't try resending (and hence get
whitelisted) quite a few are doing that now. Maybe they're adapting to
spamd's growing popularity, idk. Quite a bit of spam is getting past it
though. While I can live with that from the netblock we have to, I'm
choosing to just blacklist everything I don't have to allow by default.

In blacklist-only mode a pf table <blacklist> gets populated with the
items from blacklist sources, but the whitelist doesn't get populated.
Looking at the pf rules, it seems that is the problem.
But I don't really understand spamd internals. I don't know why its
acting like that. I'm betting its a problem with the pfsense
implementation not being designed to allow for blacklist only option.

I'm thinking of just forwarding port 25 to a real bsd vm to have a
standard spamd install.
Better yet, one of these days I'll break the pfsense habit and just do
it like the big boys do. These damn GUIs are just so addictive.





From carton at Ivy.NET  Tue Jun 16 18:41:48 2009
From: carton at Ivy.NET (Miles Nordin)
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:41:48 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org> (Tim A.'s message of "Tue,
	16 Jun 2009 17:46:07 -0400")
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org> <4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>
	<8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <oq4oufsswj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>

>>>>> "ta" == Tim A <techneck at goldenpath.org> writes:

    ta> pfsense

fucking easybake oven bullshit.


look does this help?  from TFM of pf.conf:

     tableaddr-spec = [ "!" ] tableaddr [ "/" mask-bits ]

can you read these?  It means try putting the elements of your
whitelist at the top of blacklist.txt, prefixing each element with a
'!'.  it is untested.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 304 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090616/c9aa473a/attachment.bin>

From techneck at goldenpath.org  Wed Jun 17 12:31:42 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:31:42 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <oq4oufsswj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>
	<4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>	<8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>	<4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org>
	<oq4oufsswj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
Message-ID: <4A391A6E.5070307@goldenpath.org>

Miles Nordin wrote:
>>>>>> "ta" == Tim A <techneck at goldenpath.org> writes:
>>>>>>             
>
>     ta> pfsense
>
> fucking easybake oven bullshit.
>   

Sign me up for: More easybake, Less bullshit.

>
> look does this help?  from TFM of pf.conf:
>
>      tableaddr-spec = [ "!" ] tableaddr [ "/" mask-bits ]
>
> can you read these?  It means try putting the elements of your
> whitelist at the top of blacklist.txt, prefixing each element with a
> '!'.  it is untested.

If it were only pf I'd hope to rely on simple exclusions like that. But 
I'm not sure how spamd works with the ! operator.
And, I do not see it used in any spamd related files or mentioned in TFM 
except in relation to pf:

rdr pass inet proto tcp from !<spamd-white> to any \
	port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port spamd


Possibly my whole problem here is just in not knowing more about spamd.
Like, spamd only populates the spamd-white table with the its dynamic 
entries, not the static entries from whitelist.txt?
And although a pf table "whitelist" is created, it is never populated 
with any entries either from whitelist.txt or otherwise, nor are there 
any rules using this table, so... idk.
Even if I add the whitelist.txt entries to the <spamd-white> table, 
spamd removes them immediately.
The pfsense spamd package seems a little half-baked. But it works, with 
a little quirkiness.

I've been tempted to toss out the pfsense box and setup a freebsd 
firewall using pf. I can do most of this on my own, but I still find the 
traffic-shaping intimidating.
And, goddamn it, I really like the GUI. It's nice. I've even more often 
wished that there existed a freebsd port for pfsense, like webmin, that 
added this GUI to a standard fbsd box.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090617/0119f6f4/attachment.htm>

From techneck at goldenpath.org  Wed Jun 17 13:16:04 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:16:04 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <4A391A6E.5070307@goldenpath.org>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>	<4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>	<8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>	<4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org>	<oq4oufsswj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>
	<4A391A6E.5070307@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <4A3924D4.3000501@goldenpath.org>

Tim A. wrote:
>
> rdr pass inet proto tcp from !<spamd-white> to any \
> 	port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port spamd
>   

I know I can do this with IPs but can I list multiple tables like this, 
modifying the above rule?

rdr pass inet proto tcp from { !<spamd-white> !<whitelist> } to any \
	port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port spamd

It seems should be easier to fix in PF than it will be in spamd.



From techneck at goldenpath.org  Wed Jun 17 13:49:28 2009
From: techneck at goldenpath.org (Tim A.)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:49:28 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] CIDR Network Subtraction Tool?
In-Reply-To: <4A3924D4.3000501@goldenpath.org>
References: <4A37E45D.4000205@goldenpath.org>	<4A38043F.5000303@goldenpath.org>	<8c50a3c30906161356n757ce671md132617b29b31130@mail.gmail.com>	<4A38129F.7080402@goldenpath.org>	<oq4oufsswj.fsf@castrovalva.Ivy.NET>	<4A391A6E.5070307@goldenpath.org>
	<4A3924D4.3000501@goldenpath.org>
Message-ID: <4A392CA8.1000806@goldenpath.org>

Tim A. wrote:
> Tim A. wrote:
>   
>> rdr pass inet proto tcp from !<spamd-white> to any \
>> 	port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port spamd
>>   
>>     
>
> I know I can do this with IPs but can I list multiple tables like this, 
> modifying the above rule?
>
> rdr pass inet proto tcp from { !<spamd-white> !<whitelist> } to any \
> 	port smtp -> 127.0.0.1 port spamd
>
> It seems should be easier to fix in PF than it will be in spamd.
>   

Well, it did it as an AND. I was looking for an OR.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20090617/e09204c8/attachment.htm>

From matt at atopia.net  Tue Jun 23 17:56:05 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:56:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Code Deployment Question
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906231746460.9904@pluto.atopia.net>

Hi all,

I have to do some code deployment to about 20 webservers as a temporary 
solution.  We're running puppet which works fine for config file 
management (with SVN to store the config files), but I'm trying to figure 
out the code deployment.

here's my thoughts:

- on the dev server, people checkout the code into their own sandboxes, 
which are in their home dir (so multiple people can develop on the same 
site and only check their changes in when needed) - I haven't decided if 
i'm using svn over ssh or just using svnserv to allow people to do 
checkins.

- Once the code is checked in, I need to somehow tell all the webservers 
to do their SVN checkouts (when appropriate).  I guess I would write a 
script that would run every minute and check a config file, and I can push 
the config file via puppet.  Perhaps the config file would just say what 
"version" should be on the webservers.

Thoughts?  Is there something simpler?


From brothers at logn.org  Wed Jun 24 11:52:44 2009
From: brothers at logn.org (Jared Brothers)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:52:44 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Code Deployment Question
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906231746460.9904@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906231746460.9904@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <259abe8d0906240852j6cd78066ya1edc706a47a65a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Matt Juszczak<matt at atopia.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have to do some code deployment to about 20 webservers as a temporary
> solution. ?We're running puppet which works fine for config file
> management (with SVN to store the config files), but I'm trying to figure
> out the code deployment.

> Snip

Here is what I came up with, let me know what you think.  I have
developers create a tag for the version they want deployed.  My
subversion::workingcopy resource does a check out if it hasn't done so
and switches to the latest tag when I change the $branch variable.  I
use iClassify to set variables, but tmtowtdi and ymmv.  Using a
working copy rather than an export leaves .svn directories lying
around, but Apache is configured to hide them with 404s.

# modules/subversion/manifests/init.pp
class subversion {
    package { subversion:
        ensure => installed,
    }
}
define subversion::workingcopy ($repourl, $branch, $copydir) {
    include subversion
    file { "$copydir":
        owner => apache, group => apache, mode => 755,
        ensure => directory,
    }
    # initial check out
    exec { "svnco-$name":
        command => "/usr/bin/svn co --non-interactive $repourl/$branch
$copydir/$name",
        creates => "$copydir/$name/.svn",
        require => [Package[subversion], File["$copydir"]],
    }
    # switch branches
    exec { "svnswitch-$name":
        command => "/usr/bin/svn switch --non-interactive
$repourl/$branch $copydir/$name",
        unless => "/usr/bin/svn info $copydir/$name|/bin/grep -q
'URL:.*$branch\$'",
        require => [Package[subversion], File["$copydir"], Exec["svnco-$name"]],
    }
}

# web-foo.pp
class web-foo {
    if $branch {
        subversion::workingcopy { foo:
            repourl => 'http://svn.example.com/foo/tags',
            branch => "$branch",
            copydir => '/www/foo',
        }
    }
}

-- 
Thanks,
Jared Brothers


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jun 26 14:42:17 2009
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:42:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDFund Visa Card
Message-ID: <4A451689.7020806@ceetonetechnology.com>

If you didn't hear, BSDFund has announced a credit card with the Beastie 
logo.  The card donates money to the projects.

http://bsdfund.org/card/

This is the BSDTalk episode:

http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexter.html

BSDFund has helped out a number of projects. . . most recently with 
Ragge and his PCC porting.

g


From akosela at andykosela.com  Sat Jun 27 06:08:10 2009
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:08:10 +0200
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSDFund Visa Card
In-Reply-To: <4A451689.7020806@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <4A451689.7020806@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <4a45ef8a.9OAC6BTfZD1ezpAU%akosela@andykosela.com>

George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> If you didn't hear, BSDFund has announced a credit card with the Beastie 
> logo.  The card donates money to the projects.
>
> http://bsdfund.org/card/
>
> This is the BSDTalk episode:
>
> http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexter.html
>
> BSDFund has helped out a number of projects. . . most recently with 
> Ragge and his PCC porting.
>
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

--Andy


From matt at atopia.net  Sat Jun 27 10:08:47 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:08:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>

Hi all,

Sorry to bother the list, but this is a problem I just encountered that is 
somewhat time sensitive, so I thought I would get some opinions from the 
group.

I'm moving to a new temporary code deployment solution.  The prior setup 
didn't use SVN at all - people edited on the dev server, and then rsync's 
the code to the production server.

The new setup (TEMPORARY for a few weeks until I can get real 
repositoriees going) is that I checked in the entire webroot into an SVN 
repository, and then I have the webs check that out.  That way, if someone 
edits something, they check it in, and then

This is gigs of code and I didn't have much time to go through it, so I 
added everything to SVN, even log files.  What I'm having trouble with 
right now is this: on the initial checkout to the webservers, it works 
fine, but it creates these log files.  Of course, the log files aren't 
empty - they are in a state that they were in when I checked them into SVN 
originally.  Over time, those log files begin to get written to, to where 
if I do an svn stat in the webroot, it shows they've changed.

No big deal, until I try to run an svn update again after a full check in 
from the dev server - the log files show conflicts, because they've 
changed on both servers.

First, as a disclaimer, I know this is a HORRIBLE temporary solution, but 
I promise it's temporary for those who want to yell :) Does anyone know a 
way to tell SVN "If the file has changed locally, don't check out the 
latest version remotely, and instead ignore it?".  I'd obviously like to 
do this with a flag.

Thanks!

-M


From o_sleep at belovedarctos.com  Sat Jun 27 10:24:07 2009
From: o_sleep at belovedarctos.com (Bjorn Nelson)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:24:07 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <4A462B87.5030106@belovedarctos.com>

Matt Juszczak wrote:
> First, as a disclaimer, I know this is a HORRIBLE temporary solution, but 
> I promise it's temporary for those who want to yell :) Does anyone know a 
> way to tell SVN "If the file has changed locally, don't check out the 
> latest version remotely, and instead ignore it?".  I'd obviously like to 
> do this with a flag.
Not sure about svn, but p4 won't overwrite a file that has the write 
permission bit set.  By default, when you checkin/submit, it makes all 
files ro or rx.

-Bjorn


From billtotman at billtotman.com  Sat Jun 27 10:37:44 2009
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (billtotman at billtotman.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:37:44 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <1727646540-1246113469-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1256443357-@bxe1028.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I haven't looked at SVN in a while, but isn't there a means of pattern exclusion some where in the '.svn' directory(s)?


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net>

Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:08:47 
To: <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts


Hi all,

Sorry to bother the list, but this is a problem I just encountered that is 
somewhat time sensitive, so I thought I would get some opinions from the 
group.

I'm moving to a new temporary code deployment solution.  The prior setup 
didn't use SVN at all - people edited on the dev server, and then rsync's 
the code to the production server.

The new setup (TEMPORARY for a few weeks until I can get real 
repositoriees going) is that I checked in the entire webroot into an SVN 
repository, and then I have the webs check that out.  That way, if someone 
edits something, they check it in, and then

This is gigs of code and I didn't have much time to go through it, so I 
added everything to SVN, even log files.  What I'm having trouble with 
right now is this: on the initial checkout to the webservers, it works 
fine, but it creates these log files.  Of course, the log files aren't 
empty - they are in a state that they were in when I checked them into SVN 
originally.  Over time, those log files begin to get written to, to where 
if I do an svn stat in the webroot, it shows they've changed.

No big deal, until I try to run an svn update again after a full check in 
from the dev server - the log files show conflicts, because they've 
changed on both servers.

First, as a disclaimer, I know this is a HORRIBLE temporary solution, but 
I promise it's temporary for those who want to yell :) Does anyone know a 
way to tell SVN "If the file has changed locally, don't check out the 
latest version remotely, and instead ignore it?".  I'd obviously like to 
do this with a flag.

Thanks!

-M
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

From mikel.king at olivent.com  Sat Jun 27 11:29:33 2009
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:29:33 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <1899C040-C652-4BD3-8635-30289D21F501@olivent.com>

you can svn delete the log files and what not, they will remain in  
their revision level so you will not loose them. a better option may  
be to mlsvn mv them to another location in the repo so that they do  
not get checked out w/ the running code.

Cheers,
m!

On Jun 27, 2009, at 10:08, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Sorry to bother the list, but this is a problem I just encountered  
> that is
> somewhat time sensitive, so I thought I would get some opinions from  
> the
> group.
>
> I'm moving to a new temporary code deployment solution.  The prior  
> setup
> didn't use SVN at all - people edited on the dev server, and then  
> rsync's
> the code to the production server.
>
> The new setup (TEMPORARY for a few weeks until I can get real
> repositoriees going) is that I checked in the entire webroot into an  
> SVN
> repository, and then I have the webs check that out.  That way, if  
> someone
> edits something, they check it in, and then
>
> This is gigs of code and I didn't have much time to go through it,  
> so I
> added everything to SVN, even log files.  What I'm having trouble with
> right now is this: on the initial checkout to the webservers, it works
> fine, but it creates these log files.  Of course, the log files aren't
> empty - they are in a state that they were in when I checked them  
> into SVN
> originally.  Over time, those log files begin to get written to, to  
> where
> if I do an svn stat in the webroot, it shows they've changed.
>
> No big deal, until I try to run an svn update again after a full  
> check in
> from the dev server - the log files show conflicts, because they've
> changed on both servers.
>
> First, as a disclaimer, I know this is a HORRIBLE temporary  
> solution, but
> I promise it's temporary for those who want to yell :) Does anyone  
> know a
> way to tell SVN "If the file has changed locally, don't check out the
> latest version remotely, and instead ignore it?".  I'd obviously  
> like to
> do this with a flag.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -M
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From lists at zaunere.com  Sat Jun 27 13:00:05 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:00:05 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>

> Sorry to bother the list, but this is a problem I just encountered that is
> somewhat time sensitive, so I thought I would get some opinions from the
> group.
> 
> I'm moving to a new temporary code deployment solution.  The prior setup
> didn't use SVN at all - people edited on the dev server, and then rsync's
> the code to the production server.
> 
> The new setup (TEMPORARY for a few weeks until I can get real
> repositoriees going) is that I checked in the entire webroot into an SVN
> repository, and then I have the webs check that out.  That way, if someone
> edits something, they check it in, and then
> 
> This is gigs of code and I didn't have much time to go through it, so I
> added everything to SVN, even log files.  What I'm having trouble with
> right now is this: on the initial checkout to the webservers, it works
> fine, but it creates these log files.  Of course, the log files aren't
> empty - they are in a state that they were in when I checked them into SVN
> originally.  Over time, those log files begin to get written to, to where
> if I do an svn stat in the webroot, it shows they've changed.
> 
> No big deal, until I try to run an svn update again after a full check in
> from the dev server - the log files show conflicts, because they've
> changed on both servers.
> 
> First, as a disclaimer, I know this is a HORRIBLE temporary solution, but

Yes, it is - and likely as permanent as all temporary solutions :)

> I promise it's temporary for those who want to yell :) Does anyone know a
> way to tell SVN "If the file has changed locally, don't check out the
> latest version remotely, and instead ignore it?".  I'd obviously like to
> do this with a flag.

How about just ignore them and/or the directory they're in completely?
Hopefully there's some sane structure, so your log files aren't directly in
the document root, and you'd just ignore the directory they're in.  But you
can also ignore individual files.

http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch07s02.html

search around for svn:ignore

And there's tons of examples around, here's a quick one (even though he uses
Cold Fusion):

http://www.petefreitag.com/item/662.cfm

Or, perhaps just delete them from subversion since you already have them in
the original code base?

svn update
svn rm logs-wherever-they-are
svn commit -m 'temporary'
svn update

H




From matt at atopia.net  Sat Jun 27 16:13:51 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:13:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>

> Yes, it is - and likely as permanent as all temporary solutions :)

Actually, this initial checkin is going so slow.  20 GB to check in... 
wish there was an easier way to create a new repository.


From lists at zaunere.com  Sat Jun 27 16:17:35 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:17:35 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <018501c9f764$4f8bc4c0$eea34e40$@com>

> > Yes, it is - and likely as permanent as all temporary solutions :)
> 
> Actually, this initial checkin is going so slow.  20 GB to check in...
> wish there was an easier way to create a new repository.

Sounds like a lot of stuff that shouldn't probably be in source control -
ie, not source.  Good thing it's only temporary...

H



From matt at atopia.net  Mon Jun 29 14:08:22 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:08:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>

Hi all,

I was able to get the SVN repo solution working, however I'm having some 
permission issues.

Basically, I setup svnserve on one server.  Our webservers checkout from 
that server when we tell it to.  However, we only have one dev environment 
(dev.ourdomain.com) which points to an SVN checkout on a dev server 
(again, as a disclaimer in case someone ever googles my name, a total 
temporary solution for a week or two tops while we setup local sandboxes). 
=)

The problem I'm running into is this: the svn checkout is in 
/usr/local/www/webroot on our SVN server, which is owned recursively by 
www:users and set to 775.  Since everyone is in the users group, it works 
fine, for a while.  But new files in that directory are created with 
individual users permissions (username:users  instead of www:users), which 
is causing a problem later when people try to check files in can't 
overwrite other files.  Eventually, the checkout breaks.

There are a few options:

- Set the setuid bit recursively (and somehow tell freebsd to support 
this, I think there's a way) so that new files are created with the www 
user.

- Somehow make it so that new files created by regular users are created 
as 775.  This is a umask thing obviously, but can a umask be set 
recursively on a single directory only, or is this an environment thing 
only?

- Recursively chown/chmod every minute in a cron *YUCK* and hope no one 
tries to double check in in that time period.

- Write a wrapper that runs setuid to inherit the permissions of www, 
which would hopefully then create the .tmp files and such as user www.

- Allow people to sudo to user www upon checkin

- Run and hide.

Any ideas? :) Thanks all.  Again, this is a temporary solution.  If 
everyone could have their own repository this wouldn't be an issue, and 
that's coming soon.

-Matt


From bcully at gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 14:34:31 2009
From: bcully at gmail.com (Brian Cully)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:34:31 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>

On 29-Jun-2009, at 14:08, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> - Set the setuid bit recursively (and somehow tell freebsd to support
> this, I think there's a way) so that new files are created with the  
> www
> user.

	I don't think there's a way to do this short of setuid  on the  
directory, and the problem there is that new directories won't be  
created setuid regardless of umask (I think).

> - Somehow make it so that new files created by regular users are  
> created
> as 775.  This is a umask thing obviously, but can a umask be set
> recursively on a single directory only, or is this an environment  
> thing
> only?

	It's been a while since I had to deal with SVN administration, but as  
I recall there's an svn umask property. Failing that svn+ssh will  
allow you to set your own umask on a per-client basis. None of these  
apply per-directory.

> - Write a wrapper that runs setuid to inherit the permissions of www,
> which would hopefully then create the .tmp files and such as user www.

	You could also run svnserve as the www user.

> Any ideas? :) Thanks all.  Again, this is a temporary solution.  If
> everyone could have their own repository this wouldn't be an issue,  
> and
> that's coming soon.

	One last option would be a post-update hook (or whatever SVN calls  
it) that chmods appropriately. This would probably be of the easier  
and more fail-safe solutions.

-bjc


From matt at atopia.net  Mon Jun 29 14:46:49 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:46:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>

> 	I don't think there's a way to do this short of setuid  on the 
> directory, and the problem there is that new directories won't be created 
> setuid regardless of umask (I think).

So it's different than the behavior of setgid?  Because setgid is 
recursive.

> 	You could also run svnserve as the www user.

This has nothing to do with the server I don't think.  The server is fine 
- it's running as an svn server remotely.  I'm using svnserve, not svn+ssh 
or file://, so checking things in works fine.  The permissions error I'm 
getting is on the LOCAL checkout.

> 	One last option would be a post-update hook (or whatever SVN calls 
> it) that chmods appropriately. This would probably be of the easier and more 
> fail-safe solutions.

I thought hooks only do thing on the server?  This problem exists with an 
svn checkout, not an svn repository.

Thanks!


From michael.bubb at gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 15:04:37 2009
From: michael.bubb at gmail.com (Michael Bubb)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:04:37 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] "NYC Big Apps" Public Contest
Message-ID: <534a4cab0906291204t41df6873qc110b0385c054967@mail.gmail.com>

Possibly of interest to the group

http://bit.ly/176nif

 - fairly general announcement of a  "NYC Big Apps" Public Contest



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
PR- 294-09
June 29, 2009

MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES FIVE TECHNOLOGY INITIATIVES TO IMPROVE
ACCESSIBILITY, TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACROSS CITY GOVERNMENT

City Providing Data to the Public to Allow for the Development of
Applications for Computers and Mobile Devices as Part of "NYC Big
Apps" Public Contest; 311 and NYC.gov Enhanced through Skype, Twitter
and Google

-- 
Michael Bubb | Hoboken, NJ | 201.736.0870
www.linkedin.com/in/mpbubb


"make up yr mind you Tiresias if you know know damn well or else you
dont"


From marco at metm.org  Mon Jun 29 16:53:30 2009
From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:53:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>	<91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <4A4929CA.2010309@metm.org>




Matt Juszczak wrote:
>> 	I don't think there's a way to do this short of setuid  on the 
>> directory, and the problem there is that new directories won't be created 
>> setuid regardless of umask (I think).
>>     
>
> So it's different than the behavior of setgid?  Because setgid is 
> recursive.
>
>   
You should read drew's post on setting up an svn server.  It covers 
umask and the setgid bit :

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2005/05/12/FreeBSD_Basics.html


Marco


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jun 29 17:03:37 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:03:37 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>

Hello,

> I was able to get the SVN repo solution working, however I'm having some
> permission issues.
>
> Basically, I setup svnserve on one server.  Our webservers checkout from
> that server when we tell it to.  However, we only have one dev environment
> (dev.ourdomain.com) which points to an SVN checkout on a dev server
> (again, as a disclaimer in case someone ever googles my name, a total
> temporary solution for a week or two tops while we setup local
> sandboxes).

...

> - Run and hide.

I'd go for this option...

> Any ideas? :) Thanks all.  Again, this is a temporary solution.  If

Say it three times and click your heals. :)

> everyone could have their own repository this wouldn't be an issue, and
> that's coming soon.

So this is only an issue in the dev environment right?  If Run and hide
isn't an option, the cron to reset is probably the best bet - I've seen this
done.  Or maybe try your luck at lucky 777's - Or maybe have everyone use
the same user?  Wee...

This isn't really a svn problem as I understand it, since this is about just
having multiple people work in the same directory and stepping on each
other's toes - let's hope someone doesn't put in 5 hours of dev on a file,
then have someone else overwrite :) 

But since you already have everything in subversion, why not setup multiple
dev sandboxes?  It should only be a matter of a couple vhosts and CNAMES and
the 1 hour that takes could prevent losing 5 hours of dev.

H




From matt at atopia.net  Mon Jun 29 17:11:28 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:11:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>

> This isn't really a svn problem as I understand it, since this is about just
> having multiple people work in the same directory and stepping on each
> other's toes - let's hope someone doesn't put in 5 hours of dev on a file,
> then have someone else overwrite :)

Yup, agreed.  This isn't an SVN thing.  This is more "how do I make 
freebsd somehow keep all files in a directory, recursively, owned by the 
same user/group".  The cron idea would work, potentially running every 5 
minutes and just doing:

chown -R www:user /usr/local/www/webroot

but its a major hack.  And it only allows people to check in once every 5 
minutes.

> But since you already have everything in subversion, why not setup multiple
> dev sandboxes?  It should only be a matter of a couple vhosts and CNAMES and
> the 1 hour that takes could prevent losing 5 hours of dev.

This is how I did things first =) But the webserver configuration files 
and the code has SO MUCH hardcoded into it, the sites wouldn't work. 
Trust me, I tried.  That's why this is temporary.  Because once I fix the 
code, I'm setting up proper svn (trunk/stable/live) repos, multiple 
sandboxes, etc. etc.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jun 29 17:30:53 2009
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:30:53 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <BCB8DE35-811E-4F83-B462-4FDCEEC4555E@nomadlogic.org>


On 29-Jun-09, at 2:11 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:

>> This isn't really a svn problem as I understand it, since this is  
>> about just
>> having multiple people work in the same directory and stepping on  
>> each
>> other's toes - let's hope someone doesn't put in 5 hours of dev on  
>> a file,
>> then have someone else overwrite :)
>
> Yup, agreed.  This isn't an SVN thing.  This is more "how do I make
> freebsd somehow keep all files in a directory, recursively, owned by  
> the
> same user/group".  The cron idea would work, potentially running  
> every 5
> minutes and just doing:
>
> chown -R www:user /usr/local/www/webroot
>
> but its a major hack.  And it only allows people to check in once  
> every 5
> minutes.
>

sorry i haven't been following this thread too closely but would it be  
possible to restrict access to your repo via a wrapper script that is  
run as the user/group whose permissions you want to preserve?

for example have devs check code in via a script, or alias, that  
performs the ci as the www uid via a pass-wordless sudo command...

again, i havn't read the thread really so i'm not sure if you covered  
this already :)

-p



From bcully at gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 17:36:02 2009
From: bcully at gmail.com (Brian Cully)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:36:02 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <1CA8D99C-882B-4572-986A-59C6E538DEFC@gmail.com>

On 29-Jun-2009, at 14:46, Matt Juszczak wrote:
>> 	I don't think there's a way to do this short of setuid  on the  
>> directory, and the problem there is that new directories won't be  
>> created setuid regardless of umask (I think).
>
> So it's different than the behavior of setgid?  Because setgid is  
> recursive.

	It is - my apologies. I swear I saw different behavior in the past  
where only the `.' directory was checked.

>> 	You could also run svnserve as the www user.
>
> This has nothing to do with the server I don't think.  The server is  
> fine - it's running as an svn server remotely.  I'm using svnserve,  
> not svn+ssh or file://, so checking things in works fine.  The  
> permissions error I'm getting is on the LOCAL checkout.

	You have multiple developers checking out code into the same  
directory? That's completely nuts, but I guess it's par for this course.

	Maybe you give them sudo access and a wrapper script and call it a  
day. It'll all blow up in a week or two anyway and you'll have a  
wonderful opportunity to do things properly as you're rebuilding from  
the rubble of your current environment. It won't be fun, but it at  
least offers a clean break.

-bjc


From matt at atopia.net  Mon Jun 29 17:39:57 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <1CA8D99C-882B-4572-986A-59C6E538DEFC@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<91AC9D17-2D93-4259-B766-FE66C03A96D0@gmail.com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291442560.84362@pluto.atopia.net>
	<1CA8D99C-882B-4572-986A-59C6E538DEFC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291738450.96749@pluto.atopia.net>

> 	You have multiple developers checking out code into the same 
> directory? That's completely nuts, but I guess it's par for this course.

TEMPORARY =) I promise.  This is the largest hack I've ever done, but we 
only had 20 minutes :) Long story.

> 	Maybe you give them sudo access and a wrapper script and call it a 
> day. It'll all blow up in a week or two anyway and you'll have a wonderful 
> opportunity to do things properly as you're rebuilding from the rubble of 
> your current environment. It won't be fun, but it at least offers a clean 
> break.

Yes.  Thinking about this as the option.  Or a script with setuid/setgid 
www:users.


From marco at metm.org  Mon Jun 29 18:02:38 2009
From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <4A4939FE.5070005@metm.org>

Matt Juszczak wrote:
> Yup, agreed. This isn't an SVN thing. This is more "how do I make
> freebsd somehow keep all files in a directory, recursively, owned by the 
> same user/group".  
It's called the setgid bit.
chmod 2775 all the directories in your tree.
chown www:users everything in the tree
If you give write permissions to the group.
You only need the setgid to be set.

The problem is, as you noted above, that users' umask setting can 
override this setgid bit when they create new directories, so you set 
the users' umask. 
you want so set it to 0002  which becomes 775 permissions on new 
directories which is what you want.

here is a script using group repp and reseting the umask so that things 
work as you want them to :

#make directory
[marco at voip ~]$ mkdir test
#set group
[marco at voip ~]$ chown :repp test
[marco at voip ~]$ ls -ld test
drwxr-xr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:01 test
#setgid
[marco at voip ~]$ chmod 2775 test
[marco at voip ~]$ ls -ld test
drwxrwsr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:01 test
#make subdir
[marco at voip ~]$ mkdir test/one
[marco at voip ~]$ ls -l test
total 2
drwxr-xr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:02 one
# default umask is wrong
[marco at voip ~]$ umask
0022
# reset umask
[marco at voip ~]$ umask 0002
[marco at voip ~]$ umask
0002
# second directory keeps proper permissions
[marco at voip ~]$ mkdir test/two
[marco at voip ~]$ ls -l test
total 4
drwxr-xr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:02 one
drwxrwxr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:02 two
# and they stick on into subdirectories
[marco at voip ~]$ mkdir test/two/sub
[marco at voip ~]$ ls -l test/two/
total 2
drwxrwxr-x  2 marco  repp  512 Jun 29 19:08 sub

I've done this multiple times for the  repository itself using svn+ssh.  
Never where people check out the files. 

It seems that rcs was set up to be used in this way -- where the files 
are checked out.  A user checks out a file and it is locked to that 
user, until he checks it back in.

Marco


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jun 29 18:15:19 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:15:19 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <01fa01c9f907$16ab9280$4402b780$@com>

> > This isn't really a svn problem as I understand it, since this is about
just
> > having multiple people work in the same directory and stepping on each
> > other's toes - let's hope someone doesn't put in 5 hours of dev on a
file,
> > then have someone else overwrite :)
> 
> Yup, agreed.  This isn't an SVN thing.  This is more "how do I make
> freebsd somehow keep all files in a directory, recursively, owned by the
> same user/group".  The cron idea would work, potentially running every 5

Here's another, sort of crazy-Web-2.0, approach.  Use WebDav :)  Developers
can only read/write files via DAV, which would also enable them to lock
their files while they're open and thus avoid stepping on each other's
files.

Yes, I did preface it with crazy-Web-2.0...

H




From matt at atopia.net  Mon Jun 29 20:29:24 2009
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:29:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <01fa01c9f907$16ab9280$4402b780$@com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01fa01c9f907$16ab9280$4402b780$@com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906292029060.8036@pluto.atopia.net>

> Here's another, sort of crazy-Web-2.0, approach.  Use WebDav :)  Developers
> can only read/write files via DAV, which would also enable them to lock
> their files while they're open and thus avoid stepping on each other's
> files.
>
> Yes, I did preface it with crazy-Web-2.0...

hehe =)

Since this is a temporary solution, I'm rpetty sure I'm just going to use 
a wrapper that's setuid/gid


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jun 29 23:08:50 2009
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:08:50 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] - Subversion Conflicts
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906292029060.8036@pluto.atopia.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271002070.15994@pluto.atopia.net>
	<013801c9f748$b8183530$28489f90$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906271612180.70805@pluto.atopia.net>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291355410.81260@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01e701c9f8fd$12cfc370$386f4a50$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906291709510.95060@pluto.atopia.net>
	<01fa01c9f907$16ab9280$4402b780$@com>
	<alpine.BSF.2.00.0906292029060.8036@pluto.atopia.net>
Message-ID: <027701c9f930$17b9aa80$472cff80$@com>

> > Here's another, sort of crazy-Web-2.0, approach.  Use WebDav :)
Developers
> > can only read/write files via DAV, which would also enable them to lock
> > their files while they're open and thus avoid stepping on each other's
> > files.
> >
> > Yes, I did preface it with crazy-Web-2.0...
> 
> hehe =)
> 
> Since this is a temporary solution, I'm rpetty sure I'm just going to use
> a wrapper that's setuid/gid

Fair enough, but in all honesty, I have used WebDav quickly to solve the
conundrum of filesystem permissions - occasionally :)

H