From ike at lesmuug.org Fri Jan 1 17:33:26 2010 From: ike at lesmuug.org (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 17:33:26 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] PXE/TFTPd Sanity In-Reply-To: <7A90C2E9-B58E-4D96-9605-0F94A5E3AC04@nomadlogic.org> References: <89150BF1-2C17-48CC-BE09-99A4B7CABBCA@lesmuug.org> <7A90C2E9-B58E-4D96-9605-0F94A5E3AC04@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Peter Wright wrote: > On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I've CC'd Pete here, because I'm hoping he can refresh my memory on stuff he showed us years ago... Sorry Pete- don't mean to call you out on list, but guess I am :) >> >> Anyhow, at work, we're heading toward the tipping point where we're going to drown without network installs (for fairly homogenous software, and nearly homegenous hardware). It's been quite some time since I've hacked around with PXE, (back then it was just for installing OpenBSD on Soekris boards), so I'm not totally clueless- but diving back into it I sure feel clueless :) >> Been spending a bunch of time digging through Wikipedia and the net at large, and still don't feel like I found the path foreword. >> >> -- >> Here's my questions, even just some URL's would make my day: >> >> - Has any unified software/packaging come about for doing network installs, or is it all still all just a matter of setting up TFTPD and a DHCP server? >> - Have any neat accounting utilities/database tools come along for storing MAC addresses, and their corresponding IP/boot-media info? >> > > for my deployment servers I have standardized on cobbler. it runs on RHEL/Fedora (ugg) but scales quite well (read 20k + servers managed w/ no performance issues): > https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/ > > bells and whistles: > - cli + webUI > - manages dhcpd > - manages bind > - is written in its own API and supports xmlrpc > - written in python > - tight lib-virt integration (thats a linux'y API to support different hypervisor tech, currently speaks Xen and KVM) > --> so it doesn't matter if you are building a real "bare-metal" server of a VM > >> >> Our reqs are simple: Set up a long-lasting PXE boot enviornment so we can install: >> + FreeBSD >> + OpenBSD >> + CentOS/Linux (our immediate need) >> > > cobbler works great for CentOS/RHEL/Fedora/SuSE as these distro's use kickstart for automagic builds. > > Cobbler makes heavy usage of templates (called snippets) to auto-generate kickstarts on demand. this may seem confusing at first but think of it this way. I write a "snippet" of code to setup the root password on my node and every system that inherits this snippet shares this once piece of code. so if i need to update my default root pass i just need to update one snippet and all kickstarts will pick up this change. beats having to edit a bunch of different kickstarts when making small changes. features like this should make it easier to support this system over time. > > > it's quite feature rich, but since it is being developed by RedHat its obviously not super portable atm. the lead developer is very keen to have other platforms supported by it. I worked on trying to get Ubuntu support working for a while but cried when i realized that a) ubuntu is crap and b) debian pre-seeds are needlessly complicated and are not as flexible as kickstarts. we eventually got ubuntu support working via some patches - but hopefully we'll "man up" and move away from ubuntu shortly. > > > whew - having said that you can easily support freebsd (i was netbooting OSX clients which took a little elbow grease but worked - so the code is pretty flexible). the advantage of using something like cobbler is that you can treat it as your single source of MAC, IP, Hostname info. so when we get a new box first thing we do is enter it into our cobbler provisioning server and assign it a kickstart or OS. > > > >> -- >> After we get our install media situation setup, we'll move on to the various OS options for install- (CentOS Kickstart, FreeBSD installer scripts, post-flight config scripts, etc...) >> > > I have not done *too* much work with freebsd installer scripts - but it should be quite easy to integrate it into cobbler. let me know if you run into any issues - i'm obviously quite happy with this code and have put a bit of work into it myself. > > -pete Thanks Pete! This is a really great overview- makes me more comfortable to spend time trying out cobbler, (the RH part still makes me wary, but so does our own CentOS use...) With that, I wonder if more tools based on more classic/general UNIX or BSD are coming down the pike? Or, since BSD/UNIX folks have been deploying massive installs for years, the base UNIX tools are usually more than sufficient? (Shell scripts, tarballs, etc...) Rocket- .ike From spork at bway.net Fri Jan 1 18:10:03 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:10:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] SpamAssassin heads-up Message-ID: All, There's a rule in the current stable version of spamass that will mark all mails in the year 2010 as "in the future". It's also scored a bit high: score FH_DATE_PAST_20XX 2.075 3.384 3.554 3.188 # n=2 Needless to say, that's enough to tip some HAM into the SPAM pile. A fix was committed and should be picked up by sa-update, but if you're not running sa-update, maybe have a look at doing so. To complicate matters, one of the two mirrors, "daryl.dostech.ca" is currently down and/or slow, which might cause a cron'd sa-update to fail. source: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spamassassin-users/201001.mbox/thread C From spork at bway.net Fri Jan 1 18:15:07 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:15:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD "router shell" In-Reply-To: <4D718867-51D6-403A-B974-E39BAC4F2219@lesmuug.org> References: <4D718867-51D6-403A-B974-E39BAC4F2219@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> This is new to me, thought I'd share: >> >> http://www.nmedia.net/nsh/ >> >> "NSH consolidates configuration for interfaces, bridging, routing, PF >> packet filtering, NAT, queueing, BGP, OSPF, RIP, IPsec, DHCP, DVMRP, SNMP, >> relayd, sshd, inetd, ftp-proxy, resolv.conf and NTP. It presents the user >> with a vaguely cisco-like interface with all configuration in one easy to >> read text list. >> >> It also gives the user access to system information and diagnostics. NSH >> replaces the userland commands which handle these functions, and talks >> directly to the OpenBSD kernel or control utility for daemon >> functionality." > > I'd be interested to hear how your trip goes with this down the road > once you've used it... I probably won't be using it anytime soon - I really dig the idea, but for the time being I just can't wrestle with pf QoS stuff without some hand-holding, so I'm probably going to end up giving Vyatta a spin as a Cisco replacement at one site that has to do hard rate-limiting on each VLAN... But if I ever find the need to drop an OpenBSD "router" somewhere and QoS is either not needed or very simple, this would be a no-brainer. I may also find that Vyatta totally sucks... C > Rocket- > .ike > > > From skreuzer at exit2shell.com Sat Jan 2 13:50:49 2010 From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 13:50:49 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD "router shell" In-Reply-To: References: <4D718867-51D6-403A-B974-E39BAC4F2219@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: On Jan 1, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Thu, 31 Dec 2009, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> >>> This is new to me, thought I'd share: >>> >>> http://www.nmedia.net/nsh/ >>> >>> "NSH consolidates configuration for interfaces, bridging, routing, PF >>> packet filtering, NAT, queueing, BGP, OSPF, RIP, IPsec, DHCP, DVMRP, SNMP, >>> relayd, sshd, inetd, ftp-proxy, resolv.conf and NTP. It presents the user >>> with a vaguely cisco-like interface with all configuration in one easy to >>> read text list. >>> >>> It also gives the user access to system information and diagnostics. NSH >>> replaces the userland commands which handle these functions, and talks >>> directly to the OpenBSD kernel or control utility for daemon >>> functionality." >> >> I'd be interested to hear how your trip goes with this down the road >> once you've used it... > > I probably won't be using it anytime soon - I really dig the idea, but for > the time being I just can't wrestle with pf QoS stuff without some > hand-holding, so I'm probably going to end up giving Vyatta a spin as a > Cisco replacement at one site that has to do hard rate-limiting on each > VLAN... > > But if I ever find the need to drop an OpenBSD "router" somewhere and QoS > is either not needed or very simple, this would be a no-brainer. > > I may also find that Vyatta totally sucks... For some reason, I thought Vyatta was based on OpenBSD, but when I gave it a spin, it turns out its based on Debian Linux. Much like nsh, they have a cisco like interface to configure the appliance that abstracts having to deal with all the various little networking subsystems. As of right now, I have not found any advantage to using Vyatta over pfSense in terms of functionality. However, under the hood, pfSense is based on FreeBSD so I am going to make a bold claim and say that chances are its more secure and stable (flame on) -- Steven Kreuzer http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer From mspitzer at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 14:06:18 2010 From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 14:06:18 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] PXE/TFTPd Sanity In-Reply-To: References: <89150BF1-2C17-48CC-BE09-99A4B7CABBCA@lesmuug.org> <7A90C2E9-B58E-4D96-9605-0F94A5E3AC04@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <8c50a3c31001021106m28f13c85h3bdd090df1f29335@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > > Thanks Pete! ?This is a really great overview- makes me more comfortable to spend time trying out cobbler, (the RH part still makes me wary, but so does our own CentOS use...) > > With that, I wonder if more tools based on more classic/general UNIX or BSD are coming down the pike? ?Or, since BSD/UNIX folks have been deploying massive installs for years, the base UNIX tools are usually more than sufficient? ?(Shell scripts, tarballs, etc...) > > Rocket- > .ike My personnel take on it is that it takes a vendor to make this happen. The reason for this is that the commercial vendor is looking at this as a Value add/necessary tool to help drive sales in mid/large sized accounts, small accounts don't need it so much. And it takes a fair chunk of stuff to test this out, bunch of servers etc. This makes it not so good for hacking at home. And you really do need that two racks of 1u servers to exercise the program so you can find the places where it sucks and fix it. thanks, marc -- Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better. --Albert Camus The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. --Margaret Thatcher From pete at nomadlogic.org Mon Jan 4 12:55:26 2010 From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:55:26 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] PXE/TFTPd Sanity In-Reply-To: References: <89150BF1-2C17-48CC-BE09-99A4B7CABBCA@lesmuug.org> <7A90C2E9-B58E-4D96-9605-0F94A5E3AC04@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20100104175522.GB60782@pv.nomadlogic.org> On Fri, Jan 01, 2010 at 05:33:26PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Dec 31, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Peter Wright wrote: > > On Dec 30, 2009, at 11:33 AM, Isaac Levy wrote: > > > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I've CC'd Pete here, because I'm hoping he can refresh my memory on stuff he showed us years ago... Sorry Pete- don't mean to call you out on list, but guess I am :) > >> > >> Anyhow, at work, we're heading toward the tipping point where we're going to drown without network installs (for fairly homogenous software, and nearly homegenous hardware). It's been quite some time since I've hacked around with PXE, (back then it was just for installing OpenBSD on Soekris boards), so I'm not totally clueless- but diving back into it I sure feel clueless :) > >> Been spending a bunch of time digging through Wikipedia and the net at large, and still don't feel like I found the path foreword. > >> > >> -- > >> Here's my questions, even just some URL's would make my day: > >> > >> - Has any unified software/packaging come about for doing network installs, or is it all still all just a matter of setting up TFTPD and a DHCP server? > >> - Have any neat accounting utilities/database tools come along for storing MAC addresses, and their corresponding IP/boot-media info? > >> > > > > for my deployment servers I have standardized on cobbler. it runs on RHEL/Fedora (ugg) but scales quite well (read 20k + servers managed w/ no performance issues): > > https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/ > > > > bells and whistles: > > - cli + webUI > > - manages dhcpd > > - manages bind > > - is written in its own API and supports xmlrpc > > - written in python > > - tight lib-virt integration (thats a linux'y API to support different hypervisor tech, currently speaks Xen and KVM) > > --> so it doesn't matter if you are building a real "bare-metal" server of a VM > > > >> > >> Our reqs are simple: Set up a long-lasting PXE boot enviornment so we can install: > >> + FreeBSD > >> + OpenBSD > >> + CentOS/Linux (our immediate need) > >> > > > > cobbler works great for CentOS/RHEL/Fedora/SuSE as these distro's use kickstart for automagic builds. > > > > Cobbler makes heavy usage of templates (called snippets) to auto-generate kickstarts on demand. this may seem confusing at first but think of it this way. I write a "snippet" of code to setup the root password on my node and every system that inherits this snippet shares this once piece of code. so if i need to update my default root pass i just need to update one snippet and all kickstarts will pick up this change. beats having to edit a bunch of different kickstarts when making small changes. features like this should make it easier to support this system over time. > > > > > > it's quite feature rich, but since it is being developed by RedHat its obviously not super portable atm. the lead developer is very keen to have other platforms supported by it. I worked on trying to get Ubuntu support working for a while but cried when i realized that a) ubuntu is crap and b) debian pre-seeds are needlessly complicated and are not as flexible as kickstarts. we eventually got ubuntu support working via some patches - but hopefully we'll "man up" and move away from ubuntu shortly. > > > > > > whew - having said that you can easily support freebsd (i was netbooting OSX clients which took a little elbow grease but worked - so the code is pretty flexible). the advantage of using something like cobbler is that you can treat it as your single source of MAC, IP, Hostname info. so when we get a new box first thing we do is enter it into our cobbler provisioning server and assign it a kickstart or OS. > > > > > > > >> -- > >> After we get our install media situation setup, we'll move on to the various OS options for install- (CentOS Kickstart, FreeBSD installer scripts, post-flight config scripts, etc...) > >> > > > > I have not done *too* much work with freebsd installer scripts - but it should be quite easy to integrate it into cobbler. let me know if you run into any issues - i'm obviously quite happy with this code and have put a bit of work into it myself. > > > > -pete > > Thanks Pete! This is a really great overview- makes me more comfortable to spend time trying out cobbler, (the RH part still makes me wary, but so does our own CentOS use...) > > With that, I wonder if more tools based on more classic/general UNIX or BSD are coming down the pike? Or, since BSD/UNIX folks have been deploying massive installs for years, the base UNIX tools are usually more than sufficient? (Shell scripts, tarballs, etc...) > hey no problem. i agree its kinda lame that it is tightly coupled to a vendor, but all things considered it mostly just works which i think is a good thing. other tools i've used in the past are homegrown scripts which can take up a lot of time, and eventually become maint. headaches imho. another tool i've used in large installs is xcat from IBM. its written in ksh, and while it works is not a feature rich as cobbler. http://xcat.sourceforge.net/ this may have progressed quite a bit since i've used it last (i replaced our xcat system with cobbler+cfengine about 2 years, year-and-a-half ago). -p From okan at demirmen.com Mon Jan 4 21:22:04 2010 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:22:04 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings Message-ID: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> are folks interested in nycbug "events" outside of the monthly meetings? how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - that could be positive or negative :) as informal as the monthly meetings are, how about something even less? choose a day/time/place to meet and let the "event" grow organicly from talk@ - hack on something, bring something to hack on, bring stuff others may want to see, touch, feel; have a few drinks...whatever. interest? other ideas? From okan at demirmen.com Mon Jan 4 21:25:05 2010 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:25:05 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] password repository In-Reply-To: <074363BF-9605-4915-9932-3303B9809ABC@lesmuug.org> References: <20091230164654.GW14500@clam.khaoz.org> <074363BF-9605-4915-9932-3303B9809ABC@lesmuug.org> Message-ID: <20100105022505.GH23623@clam.khaoz.org> On Thu 2009.12.31 at 14:09 -0500, Isaac Levy wrote: > PKI dreaminess :) > > Ideally, PKI does seem to deal with this problem in a most ideal fashion- but it doesn't sound like it scales back/forth well for dynamic groups over time- (e.g. Sysadmins in a group/work enviornment, people coming/going, etc...). For example, what to do when someone leaves the group? Or how does a new user get access to the old data, (before their key was put in the mix?). that's the problem ;) ...not an easy one to solve, or one that should be even... > > The best web-based thing I've found was PassPack. It's totally > > awesome. Each user has their own login to PassPack. Users can share > > passwords and assign read/write privileges to them per item being > > shared. > > Hrm? I dug around for it online and there's tons of other noise... Sounds awful dangerous, but interesting- i'm not sure i'm giving my passwords to someone else ;) i want to understand the best practices/procedures that may be applied and apply them myself, be it in software or not. good stuff all - thanks! cheers, okan From okan at demirmen.com Mon Jan 4 21:27:36 2010 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:27:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD "router shell" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100105022736.GI23623@clam.khaoz.org> On Wed 2009.12.30 at 23:37 -0500, Charles Sprickman wrote: > This is new to me, thought I'd share: > > http://www.nmedia.net/nsh/ > > "NSH consolidates configuration for interfaces, bridging, routing, PF > packet filtering, NAT, queueing, BGP, OSPF, RIP, IPsec, DHCP, DVMRP, SNMP, > relayd, sshd, inetd, ftp-proxy, resolv.conf and NTP. It presents the user > with a vaguely cisco-like interface with all configuration in one easy to > read text list. > > It also gives the user access to system information and diagnostics. NSH > replaces the userland commands which handle these functions, and talks > directly to the OpenBSD kernel or control utility for daemon > functionality." before investing time, make sure it will stay close to whatever release you plan on running. right now it "supports" 4.5 - i don't know anything about nsh, but i can tell you things change at a good pace. i do however know the author is fully aware of the rate of change... nothing useful from me here, but i'll send anyway ;) From okan at demirmen.com Mon Jan 4 21:34:20 2010 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 21:34:20 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc from freenode to efnet Message-ID: <20100105023420.GJ23623@clam.khaoz.org> fyi, moved #nycbug from freenode to efnet (and you can do ssl on efnet). From george at ceetonetechnology.com Mon Jan 4 22:30:40 2010 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:30:40 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <4B42B260.1070801@ceetonetechnology.com> Okan Demirmen wrote: > are folks interested in nycbug "events" outside of the monthly meetings? > > how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in > the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - > that could be positive or negative :) > > as informal as the monthly meetings are, how about something even less? > choose a day/time/place to meet and let the "event" grow organicly from > talk@ - hack on something, bring something to hack on, bring stuff > others may want to see, touch, feel; have a few drinks...whatever. > > interest? other ideas? I like it. g From george at ceetonetechnology.com Mon Jan 4 22:30:57 2010 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:30:57 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] irc from freenode to efnet In-Reply-To: <20100105023420.GJ23623@clam.khaoz.org> References: <20100105023420.GJ23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <4B42B271.5000105@ceetonetechnology.com> Okan Demirmen wrote: > fyi, moved #nycbug from freenode to efnet (and you can do ssl on efnet). > cool. g From jschauma at netmeister.org Mon Jan 4 23:27:06 2010 From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 23:27:06 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <20100105042705.GD27327@netmeister.org> Okan Demirmen wrote: > how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in > the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - > that could be positive or negative :) Just get together for beers. If you pick a place in the East Village, I might show, too, occasionally. :-) -Jan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available URL: From slynch2112 at me.com Tue Jan 5 00:02:46 2010 From: slynch2112 at me.com (Siobhan Lynch) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:02:46 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <4B42B260.1070801@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <4B42B260.1070801@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: <4B42C7F6.6090004@me.com> George Rosamond wrote: > Okan Demirmen wrote: >> are folks interested in nycbug "events" outside of the monthly meetings? >> >> how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in >> the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - >> that could be positive or negative :) >> >> as informal as the monthly meetings are, how about something even less? >> choose a day/time/place to meet and let the "event" grow organicly from >> talk@ - hack on something, bring something to hack on, bring stuff >> others may want to see, touch, feel; have a few drinks...whatever. >> >> interest? other ideas? > > I like it. > > g Sortof like how F(B)UNY used to do our "meetings" - it was more of a social call than a technical session, worked out well, and its definitely something missing here. A good balance of both would be great, if its often enough and on different nights, I might even be able to get out in between parenting, working, and disability rights activism. -Trish > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From chsnyder at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 10:34:07 2010 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] password repository In-Reply-To: <20100105022505.GH23623@clam.khaoz.org> References: <20091230164654.GW14500@clam.khaoz.org> <074363BF-9605-4915-9932-3303B9809ABC@lesmuug.org> <20100105022505.GH23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote: >> > The best web-based thing I've found was PassPack. It's totally >> > awesome. Each user has their own login to PassPack. Users can share >> > passwords and assign read/write privileges to them per item being >> > shared. >> >> Hrm? ?I dug around for it online and there's tons of other noise... ?Sounds awful dangerous, but interesting- > > i'm not sure i'm giving my passwords to someone else ;) ?i want to > understand the best practices/procedures that may be applied and apply > them myself, be it in software or not. > PassPack is really interesting, actually. The guy who put it together is a big proponent of "zero-knowledge hosting", whereby the application provider has no access to the data that users are storing in the application. It uses JavaScript implementations of standard cryptographic libraries to encrypt and decrypt passwords in the browser. All you are sending and retrieving from the website is the encrypted data. It's open source, and from what I can tell, done right. The crypto implementations are independent libraries written by academics. If nothing else, it's a working prototype for data security and privacy in the cloud era. From lists at stringsutils.com Tue Jan 5 11:15:24 2010 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:15:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: Okan Demirmen writes: > interest? Yes. > other ideas? Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. From isaac at diversaform.com Tue Jan 5 15:27:12 2010 From: isaac at diversaform.com (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:27:12 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Okan Demirmen writes: > >> interest? > > Yes. Yes here too- > >> other ideas? > > Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. > Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. > I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. I really like this idea- especially if the speaker really works heavily with that particular *BSD, I think there would something for everyone to learn... Rocket- .ike From george at ceetonetechnology.com Tue Jan 5 15:38:19 2010 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:38:19 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> Message-ID: <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> Isaac Levy wrote: > On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > >> Okan Demirmen writes: >> >>> interest? >> >> Yes. > > Yes here too- > >> >>> other ideas? >> >> Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. >> Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. >> I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. > > I really like this idea- especially if the speaker really works heavily > with that particular *BSD, I think there would something for everyone to > learn... speaker? We're talking apples and, er, volvos here. . Aren't we talking about something a bit looser than a speaker? What's the diff with our regular meetings then? g From nikolai at fetissov.org Tue Jan 5 15:47:16 2010 From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:47:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: > Isaac Levy wrote: >> On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: >> >>> Okan Demirmen writes: >>> >>>> interest? >>> >>> Yes. >> >> Yes here too- >> >>> >>>> other ideas? >>> >>> Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. >>> Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. >>> I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. >> >> I really like this idea- especially if the speaker really works heavily >> with that particular *BSD, I think there would something for everyone to >> learn... > > speaker? We're talking apples and, er, volvos here. . > > Aren't we talking about something a bit looser than a speaker? What's > the diff with our regular meetings then? > Looser then a speaker, hah? Drunk loose speaker? :) From marco at metm.org Tue Jan 5 15:45:11 2010 From: marco at metm.org (Marco Scoffier) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:45:11 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <20100105042705.GD27327@netmeister.org> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <20100105042705.GD27327@netmeister.org> Message-ID: <4B43A4D7.9000805@metm.org> Jan Schaumann wrote: > Okan Demirmen wrote: > > >> how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in >> the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - >> that could be positive or negative :) >> > > Just get together for beers. If you pick a place in the East Village, I > might show, too, occasionally. :-) > +1 East Village :) From mark.saad at ymail.com Tue Jan 5 16:14:18 2010 From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:14:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <4B43A4D7.9000805@metm.org> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <20100105042705.GD27327@netmeister.org> <4B43A4D7.9000805@metm.org> Message-ID: <6253.65305.qm@web113515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> > > Jan Schaumann wrote: > > Okan Demirmen wrote: > > > >> how about getting together in the middle of the month, say some day in > >> the 2nd-3rd week of each month; sure, we get to see each other more - > >> that could be positive or negative :) > >> > > > > Just get together for beers. If you pick a place in the East Village, I > > might show, too, occasionally. :-) > > > +1 East Village :) +2 East Village I say we do the first meeting at karpaty-pub / aka sly fox . Its good and dark . :) http://maps.google.com/places/us/new-york/2-ave/142/-karpaty-pub > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Mark Saad mark.saad at ymail.com From isaac at diversaform.com Tue Jan 5 18:15:41 2010 From: isaac at diversaform.com (Isaac Levy) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:15:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> Message-ID: <5D7B6EDE-A6D6-4803-A383-6290D9980169@diversaform.com> On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:38 PM, George Rosamond wrote: > Isaac Levy wrote: >> On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>> Okan Demirmen writes: >>> >>>> interest? >>> >>> Yes. >> Yes here too- >>> >>>> other ideas? >>> >>> Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. >>> Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. >>> I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. >> I really like this idea- especially if the speaker really works >> heavily with that particular *BSD, I think there would something >> for everyone to learn... > > speaker? We're talking apples and, er, volvos here. . OK- then I missed the point, > > Aren't we talking about something a bit looser than a speaker? > What's the diff with our regular meetings then? > > g I have no idea really. I mean, if anybody just showed up, who may or may not know anything about, say, NetBSD, why should I go? (I'm not a NetBSD user- but am "very technical" and would likely learn something cool from an overview on it, from somebody who uses it). Why should I go? Why not just stay home and install NetBSD and hack around? Rocket- .ike From bonsaime at gmail.com Tue Jan 5 21:31:16 2010 From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 21:31:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] password repository In-Reply-To: References: <20091230164654.GW14500@clam.khaoz.org> <074363BF-9605-4915-9932-3303B9809ABC@lesmuug.org> <20100105022505.GH23623@clam.khaoz.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote: > >>> > The best web-based thing I've found was PassPack. It's totally >>> > awesome. Each user has their own login to PassPack. Users can share >>> > passwords and assign read/write privileges to them per item being >>> > shared. >>> >>> Hrm? ?I dug around for it online and there's tons of other noise... ?Sounds awful dangerous, but interesting- >> >> i'm not sure i'm giving my passwords to someone else ;) ?i want to >> understand the best practices/procedures that may be applied and apply >> them myself, be it in software or not. >> > > PassPack is really interesting, actually. The guy who put it together > is a big proponent of "zero-knowledge hosting", whereby the > application provider has no access to the data that users are storing > in the application. > > It uses JavaScript implementations of standard cryptographic libraries > to encrypt and decrypt passwords in the browser. All you are sending > and retrieving from the website is the encrypted data. It's open > source, and from what I can tell, done right. The crypto > implementations are independent libraries written by academics. > > If nothing else, it's a working prototype for data security and > privacy in the cloud era. > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > hey, sorry about not filling in on the details... It's a part of my all too efficient mental shortcut system. I did some research and thought it "good enough". Of course, nobody in their right mind would trust me to say something is "good enough" without any qualifications... including myself, which leads to why I'm a little too efficient in this department ; ) -jesse From george at ceetonetechnology.com Tue Jan 5 22:32:53 2010 From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:32:53 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] announce forward: meeting tomorrow Message-ID: <4B440465.8090902@ceetonetechnology.com> If you're not on announce, you should be lists.nycbug.org. . . but here is the email that just went out: > A bunch of things for all to know. . . read on at any rate, kind public. > > Note that NYCBUG is (finally) on: > > Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=264110491163 > Linkedin > > And on IRC, #nycbug has been moved to efnet > > * * * > > This month's meeting is. . . > > January 06, 2010 > Hadoop a Worldwind Tour > > 6:45 PM, Suspenders Restaurant > http://www.suspendersbar.com/location.php > > This presentation gives a brief high level overview of Hadoop. Next, we > hit the ground running with a quick practical example of how Hadoop > solves a "big data" problem. We also discuss how the demonstrated Hadoop > processing model scales out to terabytes of data and hundreds or even > thousands of computers. > > slides are at http://www.nycbug.org/files/meeting_2010-01.pdf > > Edward Capriolo, works at About.com System Operations. When not in > break-fix mode, he researches high/traffic high-availability and > scalable solutions. Edward is a committer to the Apache Hadoop Hive sub > project. > > * * * > > February will be Aidan Cully on Systems Programming on a Chip > > March will be Professor Ike Levy on pfSense in a Commercial Environment, or it's not just for kids anymore > > * * * > > Note that BSDCan is moving full steam ahead. > > http://www.bsdcan.org/2010/ > > It will be held May 13-14, with two days of tutorials beforehand. > > * * * > > Also, there will be a BSD Certification exam and SME session on February 7. > > See http://www.bsdcertification.org for more details. > > * * * > > And if you've made it this far in the email, then the easter egg is. . . > > NYCBSDCon 2010 will be happening in late October. > From bonsaime at gmail.com Wed Jan 6 00:13:49 2010 From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:13:49 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] beyond monthly meetings In-Reply-To: <5D7B6EDE-A6D6-4803-A383-6290D9980169@diversaform.com> References: <20100105022204.GG23623@clam.khaoz.org> <29F97C8C-01CB-4025-BCCB-9FE92B63DE00@diversaform.com> <4B43A33B.5030303@ceetonetechnology.com> <5D7B6EDE-A6D6-4803-A383-6290D9980169@diversaform.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:38 PM, George Rosamond wrote: >> >> Isaac Levy wrote: >>> >>> On Jan 5, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Francisco Reyes wrote: >>>> >>>> Okan Demirmen writes: >>>> >>>>> interest? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>> >>> Yes here too- >>>> >>>>> other ideas? >>>> >>>> Could be informal meetings around a hack/topic. >>>> Or even something like mini "intros" to a BSD.. >>>> I for one would like to learn more Net/Open. >>> >>> I really like this idea- especially if the speaker really works heavily >>> with that particular *BSD, I think there would something for everyone to >>> learn... >> >> speaker? ?We're talking apples and, er, volvos here. . > > OK- then I missed the point, > >> >> Aren't we talking about something a bit looser than a speaker? ?What's the >> diff with our regular meetings then? >> >> g > > I have no idea really. ?I mean, if anybody just showed up, who may or may > not know anything about, say, NetBSD, why should I go? ?(I'm not a NetBSD > user- but am "very technical" and would likely learn something cool from an > overview on it, from somebody who uses it). ?Why should I go? ?Why not just > stay home and install NetBSD and hack around? > > Rocket- > .ike > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > It's more social, anarchic. Whereas in the meetings (shut up, i go to them invisibly) I appreciate order and less peanut gallery, though questions are always nice. It's the answers from the audience I don't like. A "let's talk later" is much more appreciated than a sub-dissertation stealing focus from the guest lecturer. Which I appreciate nobody doing while my friend Ed Capriolo gives his talk tomorrow night. I would much rather get the expert opinion on the matter at hand than to get someone's possibly equally expert opinion on some altogether other matter. That is what the talk list is for, not the Talk. This other venue and meeting would be a place for all to speak their mind on things such as linux, netbsd, the pope, etc. Being there and hacking on net may or may not be more productive than hacking at home, but there would be the immediate benefit of actual people who you can say "Hey!" to and get their opinion. I can't answer for Okan, but this is the type of scenario I'm interested in for sure. To answer directly to your questions, Ike. I dunno, I'm thinking something to attract people who are knowledgeable about a particular subject might be good. In general, no particular topic. But as the need arise possibly like what? Could we give out sterling silver loving cups to those who are deemed most helpful. How about everyone has to pony up $5 to anyone who: 1. commits to a BSD project (packages, and documentation obviously included) while at the meeting 2. provides the most useful BSD related information/tip to those in attendance (through ballot with each person's name) The money can be used towards drinks for self or all, or charity as the awarded sees fit. Thought being on #2 is if there 1/3 or more vote for one person then they get the pot, otherwise nobody gets it. So basically if there are 3 people then you'd have to think long and hard about who you really thought deserves the prize money and cast your non-secret votes. Someone would walk away with $10 here. (this is starting to get complicated here...) It might take verification to see what is actually a helpful tip and what is just a straight out drunken lie. In this case voting would be done the next day and payment via paypal... If the winner does not want to claim the prize, then the aforementioned charity clause goes into effect and the winner must provide a cause (likely a BSD project, or developer, but could be a food charity etc) I don't think $5 is too much to ask, but this voting thing might be too much. Or it could be fun! What do you all think? -jesse From nikolai at fetissov.org Thu Jan 7 13:29:52 2010 From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:29:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] January 2010 meeting audio Message-ID: Folks, Audio of Edward Capriolo's presentation is online at: http://www.fetissov.org/public/nycbug/nycbug-01-06-10.mp3 Cheers, -- Nikolai From spork at bway.net Fri Jan 8 03:26:08 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 03:26:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? Message-ID: Howdy, There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something that basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all the linking magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a nice retention config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of everyone rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at this point, and I'm not a big fan of writing something when it already exists. Thanks, Charles From isaac at diversaform.com Fri Jan 8 09:14:27 2010 From: isaac at diversaform.com (Isaac Levy) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:14:27 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Hi Charles, On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Howdy, > > There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something that > basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all the > linking magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a nice > retention config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... > > Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of > everyone rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at this > point, and I'm not a big fan of writing something when it already > exists. > > Thanks, > > Charles Been using ZFS for both our NFS servers and backup machines, and we rolled our own scripts to snapshot the volumes, pulled from cron. The hardest part was getting people various groups to come clean on their backup needs, so we could get the frequency vs. storage needs to fit our budget. Best, .ike From skreuzer at exit2shell.com Fri Jan 8 09:44:52 2010 From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:44:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Hadoop Meeting Message-ID: If you didn't attend the meeting we had on Hadoop on Wednesday, it was probably a good thing because we wouldn't have been able to fit you in the room. It was one of the larger meetings we have had, with ~45 people in attendance. Seems there is quite a bit of interest in Hadoop so I figured I would dig through some of my bookmarks and post links to resources I found useful when researching Hadoop. Yahoo! is most likely the largest Hadoop shops and the Hadoop team at Yahoo has a really good blog that they update frequently http://developer.yahoo.net/blogs/hadoop/ The NY Times is another large Hadoop shop and they blog quite a bit about it as well http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/hadoop/ 5 Common Questions About Hadoop http://www.cloudera.com/blog/2009/05/14/5-common-questions-about-hadoop/ 10 MapReduce Tips http://www.cloudera.com/blog/2009/05/18/10-mapreduce-tips/ Is anyone using, or planning to use Hadoop at work or home? What type of problems are you looking to solve? -- Steven Kreuzer http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer From skreuzer at exit2shell.com Fri Jan 8 13:33:15 2010 From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:33:15 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] BSD Magazine is going free Message-ID: Michal Gladecki the Editor-in-Chief of BSD Magazine just posed to freebsd-announce that all back issues of BSD magazine are available to download for free and you can sign up for their newsletter and future issues will be sent to you via email. Front page has all the details: http://bsdmag.org/ -- Steven Kreuzer http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer From mark.saad at ymail.com Fri Jan 8 16:47:10 2010 From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 13:47:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Custom release Message-ID: <462383.68914.qm@web113508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello Talk I have a FreeBSD question thats sort of a blast from the past. Does anyone remember how to do a make release on 4.11 and have it build you a custom kernel ? Will make release pass KERNCONF=NYSMP to the make buildkernel part of the make release ? -- Mark Saad mark.saad at ymail.com From spork at bway.net Sat Jan 9 00:17:41 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:17:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? In-Reply-To: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> References: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: > Hi Charles, > > On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> Howdy, >> >> There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something that >> basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all the linking >> magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a nice retention >> config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... >> >> Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of everyone >> rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at this point, and I'm >> not a big fan of writing something when it already exists. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Charles > > > Been using ZFS for both our NFS servers and backup machines, and we rolled > our own scripts to snapshot the volumes, pulled from cron. OT a bit, but FreeBSD or Solaris? Are you happy with the stability of the whole kit and kaboodle? > The hardest part was getting people various groups to come clean on their > backup needs, so we could get the frequency vs. storage needs to fit our > budget. That I'm OK with. What I hate is any type of perl or shell script that has to deal with days, weeks, months and years. I've got a serious mental block on that stuff.. Most of my time hacking this mess together will be looking for perl modules I imagine. I am finding a TON of "rolling snapshot" scripts, but I really want to come closer to emulating a good old-fashioned backup setup that lets me keep X yearly, Y monthly, Z weekly and ZZ daily sets of backups. Gnash gnash gnash. C > Best, > .ike > > From isaac at diversaform.com Sat Jan 9 08:29:39 2010 From: isaac at diversaform.com (Isaac Levy) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:29:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? In-Reply-To: References: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Message-ID: On Jan 9, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: > >> Hi Charles, >> >> On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >> >>> Howdy, >>> There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something >>> that basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all >>> the linking magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a >>> nice retention config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... >>> Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of >>> everyone rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at >>> this point, and I'm not a big fan of writing something when it >>> already exists. >>> Thanks, >>> Charles >> >> >> Been using ZFS for both our NFS servers and backup machines, and we >> rolled our own scripts to snapshot the volumes, pulled from cron. > > OT a bit, but FreeBSD or Solaris? FreeBSD 7.1 (very conservative builds), and we're slowly moving the storage systems to 8.0, where ZFS is no longer listed as 'experimental'. All on huge greybox Intel hardware. > Are you happy with the stability of the whole kit and kaboodle? Absolutely. > >> The hardest part was getting people various groups to come clean on >> their backup needs, so we could get the frequency vs. storage needs >> to fit our budget. > > That I'm OK with. What I hate is any type of perl or shell script > that has to deal with days, weeks, months and years. I've got a > serious mental block on that stuff.. Most of my time hacking this > mess together will be looking for perl modules I imagine. I believe we did it all in shell scripts without much grief, and any perl we use has no add-on modules. > > I am finding a TON of "rolling snapshot" scripts, but I really want > to come closer to emulating a good old-fashioned backup setup that > lets me keep X yearly, Y monthly, Z weekly and ZZ daily sets of > backups. Gnash gnash gnash. May I suggest dropping shell scripts into /etc/periodic/daily , weekly , monthly? Reliable, portable, easy- IMHO. Rocket- .ike > > C > >> Best, >> .ike >> >> > From jhb at freebsd.org Sat Jan 9 20:12:39 2010 From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 20:12:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Custom release In-Reply-To: <462383.68914.qm@web113508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <462383.68914.qm@web113508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201001092012.39494.jhb@freebsd.org> On Friday 08 January 2010 04:47:10 pm Mark Saad wrote: > Hello Talk > I have a FreeBSD question thats sort of a blast from the past. Does > anyone remember how to do a make release on 4.11 and have it build you a > custom kernel ? Will make release pass KERNCONF=NYSMP to the make > buildkernel part of the make release ? make KERNELS=NYSMP release I think this will merely put the kernel in /boot/kernel.NYSMP on the machines, I do not think it changes what ends up as /boot/kernel. You might need to patch that up post-install. -- John Baldwin From spork at bway.net Sat Jan 9 20:33:48 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 20:33:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? In-Reply-To: References: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Jan 9, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: >> >>> Hi Charles, >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >>> >>>> Howdy, >>>> There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something that >>>> basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all the linking >>>> magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a nice retention >>>> config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... >>>> Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of >>>> everyone rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at this >>>> point, and I'm not a big fan of writing something when it already exists. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Charles >>> >>> >>> Been using ZFS for both our NFS servers and backup machines, and we rolled >>> our own scripts to snapshot the volumes, pulled from cron. >> >> OT a bit, but FreeBSD or Solaris? > > FreeBSD 7.1 (very conservative builds), and we're slowly moving the storage > systems to 8.0, where ZFS is no longer listed as 'experimental'. > All on huge greybox Intel hardware. > >> Are you happy with the stability of the whole kit and kaboodle? > > Absolutely. Good to know. Since this is strictly a server for backups (well, and some jails as hot standbys...), I'm going with 8.0 in hopes that the new ZFS stuff fixes more bugs than 8.0 in general introduces. >>> The hardest part was getting people various groups to come clean on their >>> backup needs, so we could get the frequency vs. storage needs to fit our >>> budget. >> >> That I'm OK with. What I hate is any type of perl or shell script that has >> to deal with days, weeks, months and years. I've got a serious mental >> block on that stuff.. Most of my time hacking this mess together will be >> looking for perl modules I imagine. > > I believe we did it all in shell scripts without much grief, and any perl we > use has no add-on modules. I hate doing date/time conversion. It makes me nuts. I want "human readable" snapshot names, so I have to delve into all that mess of turning things like tank/backup at Thursday into something usable. I just hate that. >> >> I am finding a TON of "rolling snapshot" scripts, but I really want to come >> closer to emulating a good old-fashioned backup setup that lets me keep X >> yearly, Y monthly, Z weekly and ZZ daily sets of backups. Gnash gnash >> gnash. > > May I suggest dropping shell scripts into /etc/periodic/daily , weekly , > monthly? > > Reliable, portable, easy- IMHO. I've found some bits to cobble together for a short term solution. Long term, I'm reading through the rsnapshot script (which is what I want to emulate anyhow), and I think it's possible for me to hack that thing into a zfs backup system. It's well-written and very well-commented. In short, I need to make subroutines for zfs snapshot listing, creation and deletion and then figure out how to swap those out for rsnapshot's directory creation/rotation/hardlinking stuff. It looks totally possible, and there's plenty of stuff worth re-using in rsnapshot. Wish me luck. :) C > Rocket- > .ike > > > >> >> C >> >>> Best, >>> .ike >>> >>> >> > From lists at stringsutils.com Sat Jan 9 20:40:24 2010 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:40:24 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? References: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Message-ID: Charles Sprickman writes: > I am finding a TON of "rolling snapshot" scripts, but I really want to > come closer to emulating a good old-fashioned backup setup that lets me > keep X yearly, Y monthly, Z weekly and ZZ daily sets of backups. Gnash > gnash gnash. Nothing to do with ZFS.. but have you looked at rdiff-backup? From skreuzer at exit2shell.com Mon Jan 11 15:50:25 2010 From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:50:25 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Arp Networks Message-ID: <69658914-A8A3-4127-A995-CEEB00164A0C@exit2shell.com> I am curious if anyone has ever hosted with Arp Networks? They offer FreeBSD and OpenBSD virtual private servers for $10 bucks a month, and each customer gets an IPv6 block by default http://www.arpnetworks.com/vps -- Steven Kreuzer http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer From bonsaime at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 01:07:36 2010 From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:07:36 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mailing list spam harvesters Message-ID: Sorry for being so darn off topic, but I guess a good number of people on this list might admin mailing lists themselves. Please see below about zeusmail.org being used as a source of de-bot-chaury. -jesse ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Steve Atkins Date: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [mailop] Zeusmail.org To: mailop On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Stephen Gran wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 08:33:36PM +0000, Andy Davidson said: >> Hi, >> >> I have seen a number of subscriptions from plausible.name at zeusmail.org >> to a number of mailing lists which I help with, including this one. >> >> I have decided to remove the address from this list (and others) after >> discussion with the mods, because the subscription attempts appear to >> be an automated robot that is parsing and joining lists via Mailman >> pages. >> >> Graeme also found this discussion, showing other list maintainers have >> come to the same conclusion. >> >> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/listwork/2009-November/1105-iy.html >> >> Have other moderators seen the same behaviour ? > > We just had 11000 unique addresses in the zeusmail.org domain sign up to > mailing lists in a 12 hour span. ?We removed them all silently. > >> Is someone connected to Zeusmail who can explain the behaviour ? >> >> Zeusmail.org is of course using a whois privacy service. :-) > > They appear to be on lots of people's radar, but what they actually do, > I don't actually know. Targeted spam, possibly phishing. Presumably to email addresses harvested from mailing lists, likely using either the list address or other posters address in the from line, so as to avoid filters. I've no hard evidence for that, yet, as they're still in their harvesting mode, but it's a pretty well understood approach and nobody legitimate hides their domain registration and has no web pages. I'd need some pretty solid evidence to change my mind on that. They're the same folks as ec-group.biz, who were doing the same thing early last year (signing up lots of @ec-group.biz email addresses) and who appear to have a long history in the online fraud business. Cheers, ?Steve _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop at mailop.org http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop From riegersteve at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 01:12:02 2010 From: riegersteve at gmail.com (riegersteve at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:12:02 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mailing list spam harvesters Message-ID: <54331170-1263449527-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-784011420-@bda123.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> It was also posted on nanog. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From spork at bway.net Thu Jan 14 01:47:39 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:47:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] mailing list spam harvesters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Jesse Callaway wrote: > Sorry for being so darn off topic, but I guess a good number of people > on this list might admin mailing lists themselves. > > Please see below about zeusmail.org being used as a source of de-bot-chaury. Interesting. A demo list I have saw it's first subscribe in years a few days ago. The address? Jodie.Manzanarez at zeusmail.org Charles > -jesse > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Steve Atkins > Date: Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [mailop] Zeusmail.org > To: mailop > > > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Stephen Gran wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 08:33:36PM +0000, Andy Davidson said: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have seen a number of subscriptions from plausible.name at zeusmail.org >>> to a number of mailing lists which I help with, including this one. >>> >>> I have decided to remove the address from this list (and others) after >>> discussion with the mods, because the subscription attempts appear to >>> be an automated robot that is parsing and joining lists via Mailman >>> pages. >>> >>> Graeme also found this discussion, showing other list maintainers have >>> come to the same conclusion. >>> >>> http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/listwork/2009-November/1105-iy.html >>> >>> Have other moderators seen the same behaviour ? >> >> We just had 11000 unique addresses in the zeusmail.org domain sign up to >> mailing lists in a 12 hour span. ?We removed them all silently. >> >>> Is someone connected to Zeusmail who can explain the behaviour ? >>> >>> Zeusmail.org is of course using a whois privacy service. :-) >> >> They appear to be on lots of people's radar, but what they actually do, >> I don't actually know. > > Targeted spam, possibly phishing. > > Presumably to email addresses harvested from mailing lists, likely using > either the list address or other posters address in the from line, so as > to avoid filters. > > I've no hard evidence for that, yet, as they're still in their harvesting mode, > but it's a pretty well understood approach and nobody legitimate hides > their domain registration and has no web pages. I'd need some pretty > solid evidence to change my mind on that. They're the same folks as > ec-group.biz, who were doing the same thing early last year (signing up > lots of @ec-group.biz email addresses) and who appear to have > a long history in the online fraud business. > > Cheers, > ?Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > mailop mailing list > mailop at mailop.org > http://chilli.nosignal.org/mailman/listinfo/mailop > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From lists at zaunere.com Thu Jan 14 08:02:58 2010 From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:02:58 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] mailing list spam harvesters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <064b01ca9519$e702ec90$b508c5b0$@com> > > Please see below about zeusmail.org being used as a source of de-bot- > > chaury. > > Interesting. A demo list I have saw it's first subscribe in years a few > days ago. The address? Jodie.Manzanarez at zeusmail.org NYPHP banned zeusmail.org several months ago. From seeing very strange subscription patterns, followed by our only ever spam attack on a mailing list, it was a done deal. Banned, unsubscribed, and holding steady... for now. H From jhlists at hirschman.net Thu Jan 14 16:24:45 2010 From: jhlists at hirschman.net (jh lists) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:24:45 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? Message-ID: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> I'm considering Slicehost, but they don't seem to be terribly FreeBSD friendly, nor do they have really great bandwidth options. Anyone found anything better? From dave at donnerjack.com Thu Jan 14 16:46:02 2010 From: dave at donnerjack.com (David Lawson) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:46:02 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? In-Reply-To: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> Message-ID: <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> I'm personally really fond of Linode, but I don't know how their BSD support is. I've also heard good things about Rimu. --Dave On Jan 14, 2010, at 4:24 PM, jh lists wrote: > I'm considering Slicehost, but they don't seem to be terribly FreeBSD friendly, nor do they have really great bandwidth options. > > Anyone found anything better? > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From chris.townsend at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 17:09:39 2010 From: chris.townsend at gmail.com (Chris Townsend) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:09:39 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? In-Reply-To: <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> Message-ID: Panix does a fine job. -cpt On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 4:46 PM, David Lawson wrote: > I'm personally really fond of Linode, but I don't know how their BSD support is. ?I've also heard good things about Rimu. > > --Dave > On Jan 14, 2010, at 4:24 PM, jh lists wrote: > >> I'm considering Slicehost, but they don't seem to be terribly FreeBSD friendly, nor do they have really great bandwidth options. >> >> Anyone found anything better? >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk at lists.nycbug.org >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > From njt at ayvali.org Thu Jan 14 17:14:00 2010 From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:14:00 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? In-Reply-To: <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> Message-ID: <20100114221400.GR24393@zaph.org> * David Lawson [2010-01-14 16:46:02-0500]: > I'm personally really fond of Linode, but I don't know how their BSD > support is. I've also heard good things about Rimu. Linode is excellent, but their BSD support is experimental: http://www.linode.com/wiki/index.php/BSD_Howto I looked at this page when I signed up for a Linode account a while back, but never attempted it to use FreeBSD on it. Now that 8.0 is out with better Xen support, things may have changed. Thomas From lists at stringsutils.com Thu Jan 14 17:59:16 2010 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:59:16 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> Message-ID: jh lists writes: > I'm considering Slicehost, but they don't seem to be terribly FreeBSD > friendly, nor do they have really great bandwidth options. I like http://hub.org Have been using them for years. They are primarily FreeBSD, but have added some Linux recently. From mark.saad at ymail.com Thu Jan 14 22:20:18 2010 From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? In-Reply-To: References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> Message-ID: <551823.58860.qm@web113505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Someone talked about arp networks a while ago. They appear to use kvm / qemu and offer Open, Free and Linux. http://www.arpnetworks.com/vps -- Mark Saad mark.saad at ymail.com From spork at bway.net Fri Jan 15 17:03:34 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:03:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: sublet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, I apologize for the repost. Same space is available, and it's going for $800 now with no internet/phone. Additionally another space is opening on 2/15, and we also have a window office for $900. All the other perks remain - we're an ISP and we can provide all sorts of interesting connectivity and hosting options to a tenant who needs to have staging/devel servers, production boxes etc. colocated with us at the office or at 111 8th Avenue. Hit me up with any questions... Thanks, Charles On Sat, 7 Nov 2009, Charles Sprickman wrote: > Hello all, > > Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, perhaps even spammy, but I thought this > might be a good place to find a tenant. > > Bway.net has an office available for sublet, it's approximately 10'x13' and > it's in our office at Prince and Broadway. One Cisco VoIP phone with > unlimited calling and it's own DID is included, basic internet connectivity > (ethernet) as well as power, heat, A/C, etc. Location is nice, subway stop > right at the building (N/R) and one up at Houston (V/F/D/B). > > The office is big enough for two or three people. There's a minimal kitchen > in the office, and you can also use the conference area. > > Listing is on Craigslist: > > http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/off/1454673315.html > > In the past we've had tenants that had little need for some of the perks that > are available: > > -100Mb/s bandwidth over metro-e at this location (we'd include either capped > or burstable in the office, could be talked into a deal if you need lots) > -small co-lo room (we'd discount co-location and bandwidth) > -co-lo at 111 8th Ave/Level3 (again, a discount for a tenant) > -depending on your line of business, we can refer customers to you > > Contact me if you have any questions... > > Thanks, > > Charles > > ___ > Charles Sprickman > NetEng/SysAdmin > Bway.net - New York's Best Internet - www.bway.net > spork at bway.net - 212.655.9344 > > From spork at bway.net Sat Jan 16 01:28:38 2010 From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:28:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs backup scripts? In-Reply-To: References: <2F08D750-F0FD-487D-BFF6-F725B0078D50@diversaform.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: > On Jan 9, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, Isaac Levy wrote: >> >>> Hi Charles, >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Charles Sprickman wrote: >>> >>>> Howdy, >>>> There's lots of stuff out there, but I'm looking for something that >>>> basically works like "rsnapshot", but rather than doing all the linking >>>> magic rsnapshot does, it uses zfs snapshots (and has a nice retention >>>> config for daily/weekly/yearly snapshots)... >>>> Has anyone found such a beast? This might very well be a case of >>>> everyone rolling their own, as that's what I'm tempted to do at this >>>> point, and I'm not a big fan of writing something when it already exists. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Charles >>> >>> >>> Been using ZFS for both our NFS servers and backup machines, and we rolled >>> our own scripts to snapshot the volumes, pulled from cron. >> >> OT a bit, but FreeBSD or Solaris? > > FreeBSD 7.1 (very conservative builds), and we're slowly moving the storage > systems to 8.0, where ZFS is no longer listed as 'experimental'. > All on huge greybox Intel hardware. > >> Are you happy with the stability of the whole kit and kaboodle? > > Absolutely. > >> >>> The hardest part was getting people various groups to come clean on their >>> backup needs, so we could get the frequency vs. storage needs to fit our >>> budget. >> >> That I'm OK with. What I hate is any type of perl or shell script that has >> to deal with days, weeks, months and years. I've got a serious mental >> block on that stuff.. Most of my time hacking this mess together will be >> looking for perl modules I imagine. > > I believe we did it all in shell scripts without much grief, and any perl we > use has no add-on modules. > >> >> I am finding a TON of "rolling snapshot" scripts, but I really want to come >> closer to emulating a good old-fashioned backup setup that lets me keep X >> yearly, Y monthly, Z weekly and ZZ daily sets of backups. Gnash gnash >> gnash. > > May I suggest dropping shell scripts into /etc/periodic/daily , weekly , > monthly? > > Reliable, portable, easy- IMHO. Well, here's what I've come up with so far. It's getting a trial this week and then off to the co-lo with it. I'll just do a little brain dump here for anyone interested, since I think I'm now a ZFS fanboy. First off, I had no budget. This was going to be made with 4 1TB WD RE3 drives (about $660) and some leftover hardware. Long story short, getting the scraps together was going to cost about as much as buying some new parts anyhow. Here's my parts list: $164 - Supermicro server-class board w/6 SATA ports onboard, serial console redirection, etc. model # X7SBL-LN1 (splurge!) $110 - 4GB ECC RAM (damn cheap for ECC, and yes more RAM would be better) $45 - Mini tower case and some fans, very cheap, but nice drive mounting and good airflow around the drives $45 - 500W power supply $62 - 2.4GHz dual-core Celeron $0 - FreeBSD/amd64 8.0 So a bit over $1100 for a box with 4TB of raw storage, and money spent where it counts (RE3 drives, ECC RAM, server mobo). Since I'm not totally comfortable with a ZFS boot, I took the first two drives and made a 40GB slice on each for the OS, then mirrored them with gmirror. The remainder of the space goes into a RAIDZ pool for about 2.5TB of usable space. Performance is better than I expected, I measured about 125MB/s writes and 142MB/s reads off the zfs pool - very good for only 4 drives doing software RAID on a celeron with a filesystem not known as a speed demon, IMHO. For backing stuff up, I used this set of scripts as a base: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=3689 It seems relatively sane, looks like a great base to build on, and I like the simple config layout and parallel backups across multiple sites or groups of machines. To rotate out old snapshots and manage my retention, I'm playing around with this: http://www.scottlu.com/2009/04/managing-zfs-snapshots.html It seems like many people opt for a continuous set of "rolling" snapshots. Since I'm backing up a bunch of stuff that changes quite a bit each day (email is the bulk of the space), that's not totally practical. I need to emulate a more traditional yearly, monthly, weekly and daily rotation to save space. I highly encourage anyone who's ever been curious about zfs to bring up an 8.0 box and screw around with it. There are lots of things to like, my favorite so far is really the simplicity of setting it up. I've played with vinum, took a stab at Linux's LVM, and this is really simple. I think making the volume manager and the filesystem one big lump managed with only two binaries is ZFS' biggest asset. Snapshots, checksumming of data, the ease of adding more drives, and the send/recv stuff are just icing on the cake. Charles > Rocket- > .ike > > > >> >> C >> >>> Best, >>> .ike >>> >>> >> > From nylug at sky-haven.net Sat Jan 16 20:34:40 2010 From: nylug at sky-haven.net (nylug at sky-haven.net) Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:34:40 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] Best Virtual Machine Hosting? In-Reply-To: <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> References: <4B4F8B9D.3090108@hirschman.net> <8CC4646C-3F19-44BB-A65A-CD372934A458@donnerjack.com> Message-ID: <4B526930.5030402@sky-haven.net> David Lawson wrote: > I'm personally really fond of Linode, but I don't know how their BSD support is. I've also heard good things about Rimu. This is assuming you meant www.rimuhosting.net... Rimuhosting's probably a perfectly fine Linux virtual hosting provider, but last I checked they insist on building their own DomU kernels for the Xen guests, so any reasonably conventional FreeBSD installation is probably not possible. That said, it's worth contacting them to ask. They're fairly responsive and they're bright people. From lists at stringsutils.com Wed Jan 20 17:09:41 2010 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:09:41 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] Google patents MapReduce Message-ID: Google has recently recieved a patent on MapReduce. The article doesn't say a whole lot that would be "news" to anyone and in the end it comes down to not knowing what Google's plans are for the patent. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/01/googles-mapreduce-patent-wha t-does-it-mean-for-hadoop.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss Short URl.. http://tinyurl.com/yh83qof Preview.. http://preview.tinyurl.com/yh83qof From skreuzer at exit2shell.com Thu Jan 21 09:38:52 2010 From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:38:52 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] Google patents MapReduce In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jan 20, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Francisco Reyes wrote: > Google has recently recieved a patent on MapReduce. > The article doesn't say a whole lot that would be "news" to anyone and in the end it comes down to not knowing what Google's plans are for the patent. > > http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/01/googles-mapreduce-patent-wha t-does-it-mean-for-hadoop.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss > > Short URl.. > http://tinyurl.com/yh83qof > > Preview.. > http://preview.tinyurl.com/yh83qof > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk This article lists a few reasons why its in Google's best interest to not enforce the patent. http://gigaom.com/2010/01/19/why-hadoop-users-shouldnt-fear-googles-new-mapreduce-patent/ Does this mean we can officially call Google evil? -- Steven Kreuzer http://www.exit2shell.com/~skreuzer From lists at stringsutils.com Thu Jan 21 14:05:37 2010 From: lists at stringsutils.com (Francisco Reyes) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:05:37 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT] Google patents MapReduce References: Message-ID: Steven Kreuzer writes: > This article lists a few reasons why its in Google's best interest to not enforce the patent. > http://gigaom.com/2010/01/19/why-hadoop-users-shouldnt-fear-googles-new-mapreduce-patent/ I don't even understand how the patent was granted to begin with. As the article points out so many of the concepts that make up MapReduce have existed for so long that if it really came down to it Yahoo and IBM may be able to fight to get the patent invalidated. > Does this mean we can officially call Google evil? Unless they do something with the patent we can't really say what their motive is. From compustretch at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 09:46:19 2010 From: compustretch at gmail.com (forest mars) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:46:19 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 75% of Linux code now written by paid devs Message-ID: Somewhat horribly written article that nonetheless contains some surprising statistics about the state of Linux development, most of which seems to be cribbed from Jonathan Corbet's Linux.conf.au talk: http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm forest mars -- "In theory, theory and practice are exactly the same. In practice, they're completely different." ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email is: [ ] private: do not forward [ x ] o.k. to forward [ ] o.k. to blog [ ] ask first -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBRkjTLDbz7LySoccvEQJDcQCguZZj4M4kOVOlOX4CtbgR0rppsdovAjra 3RRXIlkdzuYI0YJz4WyvKlTn =MLhk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------ The New TLDs are Here! Switch to Name.Space: http://namespace.org/switch Support new domains & keep free media free! Register yours today! https://secure.name-space.com/registry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsa.bsd at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 10:51:51 2010 From: jsa.bsd at gmail.com (Joseph S. Atkinson) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:51:51 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 75% of Linux code now written by paid devs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B59C997.9060707@gmail.com> On 1/22/2010 9:46 AM, forest mars wrote: > Somewhat horribly written article that nonetheless contains some > surprising statistics about the state of Linux development, most of > which seems to be cribbed from Jonathan Corbet's Linux.conf.au > talk: > > http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm > > I'm surprised this is news to anyone. I've been under the impression that the likes of Red Hat, Novell, IBM, etc. had been steering Linux development since the 90s. The 18% of "unaffiliated" code shouldn't be assumed to be from the community at broad either. A large part of them probably come from small firms who pushed local fixes upstream but didn't use it as a means of self promotion. > > > forest mars > -- > "In theory, theory and practice are exactly the same. > In practice, they're completely different." > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > This email is: > [ ] private: do not forward > [ x ] o.k. to forward > [ ] o.k. to blog > [ ] ask first > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and > its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) > > iQA/AwUBRkjTLDbz7LySoccvEQJDcQCguZZj4M4kOVOlOX4CtbgR0rppsdovAjra > 3RRXIlkdzuYI0YJz4WyvKlTn > =MLhk > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > The New TLDs are Here! > Switch to Name.Space: http://namespace.org/switch > Support new domains & keep free media free! Register yours today! > https://secure.name-space.com/registry > > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk at lists.nycbug.org > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk From akosela at andykosela.com Fri Jan 22 12:06:37 2010 From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:06:37 +0100 Subject: [nycbug-talk] 75% of Linux code now written by paid devs In-Reply-To: <4B59C997.9060707@gmail.com> References: <4B59C997.9060707@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4b59db1d.0Azxp29YPgpM9ACa%akosela@andykosela.com> "Joseph S. Atkinson" wrote: > On 1/22/2010 9:46 AM, forest mars wrote: > > Somewhat horribly written article that nonetheless contains some > > surprising statistics about the state of Linux development, most of > > which seems to be cribbed from Jonathan Corbet's Linux.conf.au > > talk: > > > > http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm > > > > > > I'm surprised this is news to anyone. I've been under the impression > that the likes of Red Hat, Novell, IBM, etc. had been steering Linux > development since the 90s. The 18% of "unaffiliated" code shouldn't be > assumed to be from the community at broad either. A large part of them > probably come from small firms who pushed local fixes upstream but > didn't use it as a means of self promotion. I wonder what is the situation regarding this in the FreeBSD camp. It's no mystery that many prominent developers work for companies who base their products on BSD code, e.g. Blue Coat's Qing Li, Yahoo developers, Cisco, Juniper etc. -- Andy Kosela akosela at andykosela.com From matt at atopia.net Tue Jan 26 21:46:19 2010 From: matt at atopia.net (matt at atopia.net) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 02:46:19 +0000 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: objective C Message-ID: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908-@bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi all, I consider myself to be an experienced systems admin, mysql DBA, lamp developer, etc. However, where my weakness lies is not knowing a solid, lower level programming language like C and/or object C. What would be the best way to learn something like this? Books? Classes? Auditing a college course? Thanks for any advice you can give. I figure as most of you are systems admins as well, many have dabbled in the realms of C. Matt From nikolai at fetissov.org Wed Jan 27 09:04:34 2010 From: nikolai at fetissov.org (nikolai) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:04:34 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: objective C In-Reply-To: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908- @bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908-@bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> > Hi all, > > I consider myself to be an experienced systems admin, mysql DBA, lamp > developer, etc. However, where my weakness lies is not knowing a solid, > lower level programming language like C and/or object C. > > What would be the best way to learn something like this? Books? Classes? > Auditing a college course? > > Thanks for any advice you can give. I figure as most of you are systems > admins as well, many have dabbled in the realms of C. > Matt, These two classic but still excellent books will get you pretty far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_(book) http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/tpop/ Cheers, -- Nikolai From okan at demirmen.com Wed Jan 27 09:41:35 2010 From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:41:35 -0500 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: objective C In-Reply-To: <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> References: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908-@bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> Message-ID: <20100127144135.GI23397@clam.khaoz.org> On Wed 2010.01.27 at 09:04 -0500, nikolai wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I consider myself to be an experienced systems admin, mysql DBA, lamp > > developer, etc. However, where my weakness lies is not knowing a solid, > > lower level programming language like C and/or object C. > > > > What would be the best way to learn something like this? Books? Classes? > > Auditing a college course? > > > > Thanks for any advice you can give. I figure as most of you are systems > > admins as well, many have dabbled in the realms of C. > > > > > Matt, > > These two classic but still excellent books will get you pretty far: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_(book) > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/tpop/ in addition, read simple and good code; you will start to understand, and then you can play. knowing what "good" code is hard though without experience - the interwebs (heck and even some books) have way way way more bad code than good - shy away in most cases, or at least ask yourself as you read...look for simple bits from something you want to understand. cheers, okan From akosela at andykosela.com Wed Jan 27 09:48:10 2010 From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:48:10 +0100 Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: objective C In-Reply-To: <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> References: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908-@bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> Message-ID: <4b60522a.bWxsReposABM3n/n%akosela@andykosela.com> "nikolai" wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I consider myself to be an experienced systems admin, mysql DBA, lamp > > developer, etc. However, where my weakness lies is not knowing a solid, > > lower level programming language like C and/or object C. > > > > What would be the best way to learn something like this? Books? Classes? > > Auditing a college course? > > > > Thanks for any advice you can give. I figure as most of you are systems > > admins as well, many have dabbled in the realms of C. > > > > > Matt, > > These two classic but still excellent books will get you pretty far: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language_(book) > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/tpop/ Yes, these are very good books on C. I can personally recommend excellent courses by Marshall Kirk McKusick which are suited if you already at least can read C code and would like to know what is going on under the hood in the UNIX system. http://www.mckusick.com/courses/index.html -- Andy Kosela akosela at andykosela.com From matt at atopia.net Wed Jan 27 12:34:44 2010 From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:34:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: objective C In-Reply-To: <4b60522a.bWxsReposABM3n/n%akosela@andykosela.com> References: <935590471-1264560375-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1468677908-@bda188.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <093ccf2ed6e64fd81049bcb0d2de6837.squirrel@geekisp.com> <4b60522a.bWxsReposABM3n/n%akosela@andykosela.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who sent me suggestions!