From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  2 09:12:08 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 09:12:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC*BUG Upcoming for 2013
Message-ID: <50E44038.9040402@ceetonetechnology.com>

Tonight's meeting has been postponed to next week, January 9th.  There 
will be *no* meeting tonight, January 2nd.

Eitan Adler on "What's New with FreeBSD?" at Suspenders at 645 PM.

Next month will be John Baldwin on SMPng on February 7th.



From nycbug at wynn.com  Wed Jan  2 12:35:05 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 12:35:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBone Update!
Message-ID: <20130102123505.517a7b3e@ivory.wynn.com>

Greeting-

The BeagleBone FreeBSD Port is coming along partly due to wonderful
programmers and partly because I keep testing/breaking/reporting things.

My BeagleBone is now running pretty stable, but without USB.  Some of
the developers seem to think USB should happen in the next few weeks.

To tease those of you that did not order a BeagleBone here is the
output of top while running buildworld:

last pid: 32084;  load averages:  1.30,  1.27,  1.24  up 0+09:27:58    12:31:01
21 processes:  2 running, 19 sleeping

Mem: 140M Active, 528K Inact, 35M Wired, 18M Cache, 35M Buf, 49M Free
Swap: 770M Total, 64M Used, 706M Free, 8% Inuse


  PID USERNAME    THR PRI NICE   SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU COMMAND
32082 root          1  69    0 16000K 15536K RUN      0:02 141.00% cc1
32081 root          1   8    0  8812K  8704K wait     0:00 17.94% cc
32083 root          1  -8    0  9600K  9396K piperd   0:00 16.00% as
25859 root          1   8    0 29340K 29208K wait     0:26  0.00% make
  644 root          1   8    0 10072K   760K nanslp   0:11  0.00% cron
26665 wynkoop       1  40    0 17820K  3452K select   0:02  0.00% sshd
  449 _dhcp         1  40    0 10124K  1568K select   0:01  0.00% dhclient
 1213 root          1   8    0  8860K   896K wait     0:01  0.00% make
  411 root          1  60    0 10124K   748K select   0:01  0.00% dhclient
22646 root          1   8    0  8860K  8580K wait     0:01  0.00% make
 1037 root          1  16    0 10824K  2168K pause    0:01  0.00% csh
26649 root          1  42    0 17820K 12748K select   0:01  0.00% sshd
23262 root          1   8    0  8860K  8612K wait     0:01  0.00% make
26668 wynkoop       1  16    0 10824K 10360K pause    0:01  0.00% csh
  679 root          1   8    0 10996K     4K wait     0:01  0.00% <login>
 1055 root          1   8    0  8860K    12K wait     0:00  0.00% make
32084 wynkoop       1  43    0 11268K 10092K RUN      0:00  0.00% top
22649 root          1   8    0 10440K 10056K wait     0:00  0.00% sh



-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan  2 13:55:38 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac Levy (.ike))
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 13:55:38 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg breakage today?
Message-ID: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

So I may have chosen a bad day for it, but I've had need to wrap my hands around pkg(NG) in FreeBSD 9.1 today.

Question:
Is it me, or are the remote pkg servers offline or something?  I've been following the handbook docs, and can't 'search' or then 'install' anything with it- and I mean anything.

Best,
.ike


--
Sidenote (not trying to flame-bait with this, really):
I haven't kept up with the state of the art with pkg(NG) until now, and it's pretty ugly to see this betaware out in the FreeBSD base, as though it's the only package manager on deck.
I'm not being snarky, but I don't expect to see beta in any RELEASE version of FreeBSD:

# cat /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf
packagesite: http://pkgbeta.FreeBSD.org/freebsd:9:x86:64/latest

Am I just behind some great curve, or is this whole thing a bit sloppy?
(The util and docs are at least thoughtful, I must say).




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  2 14:16:47 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:16:47 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] BeagleBone Update!
In-Reply-To: <20130102123505.517a7b3e@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <20130102123505.517a7b3e@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50E4879F.4050405@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/02/13 12:35, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> Greeting-
>
> The BeagleBone FreeBSD Port is coming along partly due to wonderful
> programmers and partly because I keep testing/breaking/reporting things.

Oh, of course you'll be in the next READE...

;o

>
> My BeagleBone is now running pretty stable, but without USB.  Some of
> the developers seem to think USB should happen in the next few weeks.
>

Yeah, that would be a huge deal, especially for building ports, etc.

> To tease those of you that did not order a BeagleBone here is the
> output of top while running buildworld:
>
> last pid: 32084;  load averages:  1.30,  1.27,  1.24  up 0+09:27:58    12:31:01
> 21 processes:  2 running, 19 sleeping
>
> Mem: 140M Active, 528K Inact, 35M Wired, 18M Cache, 35M Buf, 49M Free
> Swap: 770M Total, 64M Used, 706M Free, 8% Inuse
>
>
>    PID USERNAME    THR PRI NICE   SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU COMMAND
> 32082 root          1  69    0 16000K 15536K RUN      0:02 141.00% cc1
> 32081 root          1   8    0  8812K  8704K wait     0:00 17.94% cc
> 32083 root          1  -8    0  9600K  9396K piperd   0:00 16.00% as
> 25859 root          1   8    0 29340K 29208K wait     0:26  0.00% make
>    644 root          1   8    0 10072K   760K nanslp   0:11  0.00% cron
> 26665 wynkoop       1  40    0 17820K  3452K select   0:02  0.00% sshd
>    449 _dhcp         1  40    0 10124K  1568K select   0:01  0.00% dhclient
>   1213 root          1   8    0  8860K   896K wait     0:01  0.00% make
>    411 root          1  60    0 10124K   748K select   0:01  0.00% dhclient
> 22646 root          1   8    0  8860K  8580K wait     0:01  0.00% make
>   1037 root          1  16    0 10824K  2168K pause    0:01  0.00% csh
> 26649 root          1  42    0 17820K 12748K select   0:01  0.00% sshd
> 23262 root          1   8    0  8860K  8612K wait     0:01  0.00% make
> 26668 wynkoop       1  16    0 10824K 10360K pause    0:01  0.00% csh
>    679 root          1   8    0 10996K     4K wait     0:01  0.00% <login>
>   1055 root          1   8    0  8860K    12K wait     0:00  0.00% make
> 32084 wynkoop       1  43    0 11268K 10092K RUN      0:00  0.00% top
> 22649 root          1   8    0 10440K 10056K wait     0:00  0.00% sh

I pinged Tim Kientzle earlier to offer any assistance we could provide. 
  But probably the best thing people can do is get on the various arm 
lists and start banging away with errors and insights.

This is a living breathing arena in which users testing code can quickly 
translate into better code.

Tim's FreeBSD scripts work for BeagleBone, Raspberry Pi and PandaBoards, 
but there seem to be a bunch of other arm-based boards on the way.

One simple thing to do is hit the /etc/rc.conf in overlay/ for FreeBSD, 
for instance.

A lot of what many of us did on i386 with Soekris, Alix, etc applies.

Certainly enable ntpdate to sync time on boot since there's not RTC 
battery to save:

+ntpdate_enable="YES"
+ntpdate_flags="-b"
+ntpdate_hosts="pool.ntp.org"

And maybe add some other rc stuff:

+rc_debug="YES"
+rc_info="YES"

To minimize disk writes, I also use md(4) in /etc/fstab

/dev/mmcsd0s2a / ufs rw,noatime 1 1
+md /var/log mfs rw,-s10m 0 0
+md /var/run mfs rw, -s5m 0 0
+md /tmp mfs rw,-s40m 0 0

I would use tmpfs(5), but the module doesn't appear to be present, and I 
haven't checked any further.

I will be screwing with arm ports at some point once the usb stack is 
reasonably functional, but I am new to cross-compiling ports for 
different architectures.

At some point I'll post all my little and often insignificant insights 
somewhere.

g


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan  2 14:25:50 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:25:50 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg breakage today?
In-Reply-To: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>
References: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <50E489BE.8090604@nomadlogic.org>

On 1/2/13 10:55 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> So I may have chosen a bad day for it, but I've had need to wrap my hands around pkg(NG) in FreeBSD 9.1 today.
>
> Question:
> Is it me, or are the remote pkg servers offline or something?  I've been following the handbook docs, and can't 'search' or then 'install' anything with it- and I mean anything.

hey .ike - the old school pkg_add repositories are offline due to 
break-in on freebsd.org servers last year.

regarding pkgng repo's i've been building 91amd64 repo's on a server and 
using that to deploy packages on all my machines/jails etc.  feel free 
to use it - and let me know if you'd like anything added:

PACKAGESITE         : http://pkg.nomadlogic.org/91amd64-default/

things are working as expected on my end with this config:
 > pkg search lighttpd
lighttpd-1.4.32_1              A secure, fast, compliant, and very 
flexible Web Server


> Best,
> .ike
>
>
> --
> Sidenote (not trying to flame-bait with this, really):
> I haven't kept up with the state of the art with pkg(NG) until now, and it's pretty ugly to see this betaware out in the FreeBSD base, as though it's the only package manager on deck.
> I'm not being snarky, but I don't expect to see beta in any RELEASE version of FreeBSD:
>
> # cat /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf
> packagesite: http://pkgbeta.FreeBSD.org/freebsd:9:x86:64/latest
>
> Am I just behind some great curve, or is this whole thing a bit sloppy?
> (The util and docs are at least thoughtful, I must say).

my understanding is it is a beta since pkgng is not currently the 
default pkg mgmt tool for 9.1.  last i heard there is still some work 
being done to improve automagic builds of packages.  i'm personally 
pretty stoked with pkgng and think it is a move in the correct direction.

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan  2 15:05:54 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 15:05:54 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg breakage today?
In-Reply-To: <50E489BE.8090604@nomadlogic.org>
References: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50E489BE.8090604@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <1357157166-4627902.14584101.fr02K5s1U030492@rs139.luxsci.com>

On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Pete Wright wrote:

> On 1/2/13 10:55 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> So I may have chosen a bad day for it, but I've had need to wrap my hands around pkg(NG) in FreeBSD 9.1 today.
>> 
>> Question:
>> Is it me, or are the remote pkg servers offline or something?  I've been following the handbook docs, and can't 'search' or then 'install' anything with it- and I mean anything.
> 
> hey .ike - the old school pkg_add repositories are offline due to break-in on freebsd.org servers last year.

Gotcha, I need to read more,

http://www.freebsd.org/news/2012-compromise.html#update20121229

Sad to say I barely noticed, been prepping a migration from an old bleeding-edge Ubuntu shop, by building a gnarly stack up from sources.  All I've  been using is gcc and dtach (on machines built prior to the advisory dates).

> 
> regarding pkgng repo's i've been building 91amd64 repo's on a server and using that to deploy packages on all my machines/jails etc.  feel free to use it - and let me know if you'd like anything added:
> 
> PACKAGESITE         : http://pkg.nomadlogic.org/91amd64-default/
> 
> things are working as expected on my end with this config:
> > pkg search lighted
> lighttpd-1.4.32_1              A secure, fast, compliant, and very flexible Web Server

Dude, that's quite sweet of you, I just gnabbed gcc (and related bits) from your box, which should be all I need to get me through the day!

And, if this pkg server does not belong to the pete at nomadlogic that I know and love, but instead belongs to some random stranger which hijack my box for it's own fun and profit, well, the box will be nuked soon enough- feel free to fun while it lasts.

Thanks Pete!

Best,
.ike




> 
> 
>> Best,
>> .ike
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sidenote (not trying to flame-bait with this, really):
>> I haven't kept up with the state of the art with pkg(NG) until now, and it's pretty ugly to see this betaware out in the FreeBSD base, as though it's the only package manager on deck.
>> I'm not being snarky, but I don't expect to see beta in any RELEASE version of FreeBSD:
>> 
>> # cat /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf
>> packagesite: http://pkgbeta.FreeBSD.org/freebsd:9:x86:64/latest
>> 
>> Am I just behind some great curve, or is this whole thing a bit sloppy?
>> (The util and docs are at least thoughtful, I must say).
> 
> my understanding is it is a beta since pkgng is not currently the default pkg mgmt tool for 9.1.  last i heard there is still some work being done to improve automagic builds of packages.  i'm personally pretty stoked with pkgng and think it is a move in the correct direction.
> 
> -pete
> 
> -- 
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> www.nomadlogic.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 




From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan  2 15:19:47 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 12:19:47 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg breakage today?
In-Reply-To: <1357157166-4627902.14584101.fr02K5s1U030492@rs139.luxsci.com>
References: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50E489BE.8090604@nomadlogic.org>
 <1357157166-4627902.14584101.fr02K5s1U030492@rs139.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <50E49663.5020704@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/02/13 12:05, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
>
>> On 1/2/13 10:55 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> So I may have chosen a bad day for it, but I've had need to wrap my hands around pkg(NG) in FreeBSD 9.1 today.
>>>
>>> Question:
>>> Is it me, or are the remote pkg servers offline or something?  I've been following the handbook docs, and can't 'search' or then 'install' anything with it- and I mean anything.
>> hey .ike - the old school pkg_add repositories are offline due to break-in on freebsd.org servers last year.
> Gotcha, I need to read more,
>
> http://www.freebsd.org/news/2012-compromise.html#update20121229
>
> Sad to say I barely noticed, been prepping a migration from an old bleeding-edge Ubuntu shop, by building a gnarly stack up from sources.  All I've  been using is gcc and dtach (on machines built prior to the advisory dates).
>
>> regarding pkgng repo's i've been building 91amd64 repo's on a server and using that to deploy packages on all my machines/jails etc.  feel free to use it - and let me know if you'd like anything added:
>>
>> PACKAGESITE         : http://pkg.nomadlogic.org/91amd64-default/
>>
>> things are working as expected on my end with this config:
>>> pkg search lighted
>> lighttpd-1.4.32_1              A secure, fast, compliant, and very flexible Web Server
> Dude, that's quite sweet of you, I just gnabbed gcc (and related bits) from your box, which should be all I need to get me through the day!
>
> And, if this pkg server does not belong to the pete at nomadlogic that I know and love, but instead belongs to some random stranger which hijack my box for it's own fun and profit, well, the box will be nuked soon enough- feel free to fun while it lasts.

lol no worries, and it is indeed the traitorous pete wright who left nyc 
for lax!

sounds like you got a lot of fun going on over there there, and i can 
def. empathize - i've just finished rebuilding most of CPAN for 
RHEL5+perl-5.16.2 custom environment - so i'm glad i could help take a 
bit of the frustration out of your day since i've recently been in an 
equally painful situation :)

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan  3 09:35:10 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:35:10 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
Message-ID: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>

Greetings.

Looks like the guy who got the grant to port FreeBSD to this inexpensive 
ARM laptop...

http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/project%20announcements.shtml#Efika

Posted the dmesg to dmesgd :)

http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2430

Anyone looked at those yet?

g


From gnn at neville-neil.com  Thu Jan  3 09:46:44 2013
From: gnn at neville-neil.com (George Neville-Neil)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:46:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
In-Reply-To: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>


On Jan 3, 2013, at 09:35 , George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> Greetings.
> 
> Looks like the guy who got the grant to port FreeBSD to this inexpensive ARM laptop...
> 
> http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/project%20announcements.shtml#Efika
> 
> Posted the dmesg to dmesgd :)
> 
> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2430
> 
> Anyone looked at those yet?

I'm shepherding the project for the Foundation and am building an image at home
at the moment.  I hope to have the box running by this weekend.

Best,
George




From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan  3 10:45:50 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:45:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
In-Reply-To: <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
References: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
Message-ID: <20130103104550.3c90e7f1@ivory.wynn.com>

Greeting-

Never mind....found it.  Looks neat!

http://www.genesi-tech.com/products

-Brett
-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan  3 11:01:43 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:01:43 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
In-Reply-To: <20130103104550.3c90e7f1@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
 <20130103104550.3c90e7f1@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50E5AB67.8090300@nomadlogic.org>

On 1/3/13 7:45 AM, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> Greeting-
>
> Never mind....found it.  Looks neat!
>
> http://www.genesi-tech.com/products

oh this is fantastic news - I was just looking at the Chromebooks and 
wondering when we may be able to put a *BSD on there.  This laptop looks 
like it could fit my bill pretty well.  Now just to find a reliable 
vendor making high density, multi-NIC, ARM blade systems :)

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org



From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 11:05:30 2013
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:05:30 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] pkg breakage today?
In-Reply-To: <50E49663.5020704@nomadlogic.org>
References: <1357152962-9965146.26674188.fr02ItcMZ018453@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50E489BE.8090604@nomadlogic.org>
 <1357157166-4627902.14584101.fr02K5s1U030492@rs139.luxsci.com>
 <50E49663.5020704@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e7ZWoncGxsDycP9p+0v9GMn4HzOd=VFQeFwycWV3to+Rw@mail.gmail.com>

Pete,

thanks for this.

marc


On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> On 01/02/13 12:05, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
>>
>>  On 1/2/13 10:55 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> So I may have chosen a bad day for it, but I've had need to wrap my
>>>> hands around pkg(NG) in FreeBSD 9.1 today.
>>>>
>>>> Question:
>>>> Is it me, or are the remote pkg servers offline or something?  I've
>>>> been following the handbook docs, and can't 'search' or then 'install'
>>>> anything with it- and I mean anything.
>>>>
>>> hey .ike - the old school pkg_add repositories are offline due to
>>> break-in on freebsd.org servers last year.
>>>
>> Gotcha, I need to read more,
>>
>> http://www.freebsd.org/news/**2012-compromise.html#**update20121229<http://www.freebsd.org/news/2012-compromise.html#update20121229>
>>
>> Sad to say I barely noticed, been prepping a migration from an old
>> bleeding-edge Ubuntu shop, by building a gnarly stack up from sources.  All
>> I've  been using is gcc and dtach (on machines built prior to the advisory
>> dates).
>>
>>  regarding pkgng repo's i've been building 91amd64 repo's on a server and
>>> using that to deploy packages on all my machines/jails etc.  feel free to
>>> use it - and let me know if you'd like anything added:
>>>
>>> PACKAGESITE         : http://pkg.nomadlogic.org/**91amd64-default/<http://pkg.nomadlogic.org/91amd64-default/>
>>>
>>> things are working as expected on my end with this config:
>>>
>>>> pkg search lighted
>>>>
>>> lighttpd-1.4.32_1              A secure, fast, compliant, and very
>>> flexible Web Server
>>>
>> Dude, that's quite sweet of you, I just gnabbed gcc (and related bits)
>> from your box, which should be all I need to get me through the day!
>>
>> And, if this pkg server does not belong to the pete at nomadlogic that I
>> know and love, but instead belongs to some random stranger which hijack my
>> box for it's own fun and profit, well, the box will be nuked soon enough-
>> feel free to fun while it lasts.
>>
>
> lol no worries, and it is indeed the traitorous pete wright who left nyc
> for lax!
>
> sounds like you got a lot of fun going on over there there, and i can def.
> empathize - i've just finished rebuilding most of CPAN for
> RHEL5+perl-5.16.2 custom environment - so i'm glad i could help take a bit
> of the frustration out of your day since i've recently been in an equally
> painful situation :)
>
>
> -pete
>
> --
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
--Albert Camus

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-- Winston Churchill

Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense.
--John McCarthy
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Thu Jan  3 11:51:50 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:51:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
In-Reply-To: <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
References: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
Message-ID: <1357231924-6457941.3265933.fr03Gpocl031055@rs139.luxsci.com>

On Jan 3, 2013, at 9:46 AM, George Neville-Neil wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 09:35 , George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
>> Greetings.
>> 
>> Looks like the guy who got the grant to port FreeBSD to this inexpensive ARM laptop...
>> 
>> http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/project%20announcements.shtml#Efika
>> 
>> Posted the dmesg to dmesgd :)
>> 
>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2430
>> 
>> Anyone looked at those yet?
> 
> I'm shepherding the project for the Foundation and am building an image at home
> at the moment.  I hope to have the box running by this weekend.
> 
> Best,
> George

!!! Radness.

"RISC architecture is gonna change everything."
"Yeah. RISC is good."

Best,
.ike





From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan  3 13:25:55 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:25:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD Efika porting
In-Reply-To: <1357231924-6457941.3265933.fr03Gpocl031055@rs139.luxsci.com>
References: <50E5971E.70707@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <37C99C99-F939-42A5-8A62-09D27147B444@neville-neil.com>
 <1357231924-6457941.3265933.fr03Gpocl031055@rs139.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20130103132555.5d170e7a@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:51:50 -0500
"Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
> 
> !!! Radness.
> 
> "RISC architecture is gonna change everything."
> "Yeah. RISC is good."

Greeting-

RISC was king from about the mid 1980's through about 2001 on wall
street.  RISC was just faster with number crunching than CISC.

I think the rise of CISC on wall street is related to the move from
solaris to redhat linux.  I am pretty sure this move was mostly
fostered by the take over of Sun by Oracle.  I know I got nervous with
that take over.

I think it is great that all these small arm boards and systems are
starting to compete with x86 systems.  It would be nice to see more
mips boxes as well.

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 14:46:21 2013
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:46:21 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Just borked hald among other things when upgrading from  9.0 to 9.1 because
between the upgrade and the pkg update libpcre.so.1 went away.

Is there a package to install the old version of pcre in the pkg system?  I
did see the warning in UPDATING from Feb 2012 but no all clear

Thanks,

Marc
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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan  3 15:00:41 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:00:41 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
In-Reply-To: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50E5E369.5040707@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/03/13 11:46, Marc Spitzer wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Just borked hald among other things when upgrading from  9.0 to 9.1 
> because between the upgrade and the pkg update libpcre.so.1 went away.
>
> Is there a package to install the old version of pcre in the pkg 
> system?  I did see the warning in UPDATING from Feb 2012 but no all clear
>

i think i ran into the same issue on my workstation and had to manually 
link libpcre.so.1 to libpcre.so.3 which is certainly not really a good 
thing :/  fwiw this is the version i have installed locally:

 > pkg which /usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.3
/usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.3 was installed by package pcre-8.32


-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Thu Jan  3 15:22:42 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:22:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
In-Reply-To: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130103202241.GD1285@glenbarber.us>

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 02:46:21PM -0500, Marc Spitzer wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Just borked hald among other things when upgrading from  9.0 to 9.1 because
> between the upgrade and the pkg update libpcre.so.1 went away.
> 

ports-mgmt/portmaster, when '-w' is used, will back up old shlibs to
/usr/local/lib/compat to prevent these breakages.

Alternatively (if there were pkgng packages available), 'pkg install -Rf
pcre' will reinstall any packages dependent on pcre.  If you use a local
package building system (ports-mgmt/tinderbox, ports-mgmt/poudriere) and
still have the old version, 'pkg install pcre-8.30_1' may do it.

> Is there a package to install the old version of pcre in the pkg system?  I
> did see the warning in UPDATING from Feb 2012 but no all clear
> 

Through pkgng, no, unless you have a backup in PKG_CACHEDIR (see
pkg.conf(5)).

Glen

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From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 16:23:39 2013
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:23:39 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
In-Reply-To: <50E5E369.5040707@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
 <50E5E369.5040707@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e7W6Wj2qy85e-SEnZUPPn6LQo7vx_pnFSaNybA=fzhPKg@mail.gmail.com>

Pete,

Last time I found an old version on the net and just put the file in the
right place, this time I did the link.  This breaks X among other things on
my desktop.

thanks,

marc


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> On 01/03/13 11:46, Marc Spitzer wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Just borked hald among other things when upgrading from  9.0 to 9.1
>> because between the upgrade and the pkg update libpcre.so.1 went away.
>>
>> Is there a package to install the old version of pcre in the pkg system?
>>  I did see the warning in UPDATING from Feb 2012 but no all clear
>>
>>
> i think i ran into the same issue on my workstation and had to manually
> link libpcre.so.1 to libpcre.so.3 which is certainly not really a good
> thing :/  fwiw this is the version i have installed locally:
>
> > pkg which /usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.3
> /usr/local/lib/libpcre.so.3 was installed by package pcre-8.32
>
>
> -pete
>
> --
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
--Albert Camus

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-- Winston Churchill

Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense.
--John McCarthy
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From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan  3 16:48:36 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:48:36 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
In-Reply-To: <CA+qr9e7W6Wj2qy85e-SEnZUPPn6LQo7vx_pnFSaNybA=fzhPKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
 <50E5E369.5040707@nomadlogic.org>
 <CA+qr9e7W6Wj2qy85e-SEnZUPPn6LQo7vx_pnFSaNybA=fzhPKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130103164836.076a6061@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:23:39 -0500
Marc Spitzer <mspitzer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pete,
> 
> Last time I found an old version on the net and just put the file in
> the right place, this time I did the link.  This breaks X among other
> things on my desktop.

My FreeBSD 9 box is 32 bit, but I can send you the package from that
system if it will help.  I do not have a 64 bit FreeBSD system at the
moment. 

-Brett
-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From mspitzer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 16:57:00 2013
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:57:00 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Libpcre.so.1 pkg package name?
In-Reply-To: <20130103163347.152f8aae@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CA+qr9e601BEgE-Y-Cg9hswnzBirWrnmVf6wfiBxbgaqQ-ND00w@mail.gmail.com>
 <50E5E369.5040707@nomadlogic.org>
 <CA+qr9e7W6Wj2qy85e-SEnZUPPn6LQo7vx_pnFSaNybA=fzhPKg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130103163347.152f8aae@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e43T6VNcsScZNX6TULSdy-0_Ban+17GGMt8PX5eENju0A@mail.gmail.com>

Things are working, sorry for not being clear enough.

thanks

marc


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Brett Wynkoop <wynkoop at wynn.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:23:39 -0500
> Marc Spitzer <mspitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Pete,
> >
> > Last time I found an old version on the net and just put the file in
> > the right place, this time I did the link.  This breaks X among other
> > things on my desktop.
>
> My FreeBSD 9 box is 32 bit, but I can send you the package from that
> system if it will help.  I do not have a 64 bit FreeBSD system at the
> moment.
>
> -Brett
> --
>
> wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
> 917-642-6924
> 718-717-5435
>
>


-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
--Albert Camus

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-- Winston Churchill

Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense.
--John McCarthy
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Fri Jan  4 16:32:54 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 16:32:54 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>

All
  I have a way off topic question . My home heating system is on the fritz
again . It's a antique oil fired steam boiler , it's 85 years old by my
guess . I want to convert to a gas fired steam boiler , but I want one I
can run on batteries or one that doesn't need external power at all. From
my research I could get a standing pilot , micro volt, natural draft
vented, gas fired steam boiler . In that setup the pilot light heats a
thermocouple which generates the micro volt power to run the gas valve and
control system .  Does anyone have this sort of setup ?

The other option would be to go with a electric ignition , natural draft
vented gas fired steam boiler and have a manual switch setup after the
ac/dc transformer to allow me to switch to some  deep cycle marine
batteries , which I could in turn charge via solar or standard electric ?
 The batteries would only be used in a power failure . Anyone ever tried
this ?

Well if anyone has any ideas or can recommended a good boiler let me know .


---
Mark Saad
mark.saad at ymail.com
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From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Jan  4 18:29:34 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 18:29:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>

Greeting-

In any case you will need some source or electric power to run the
thermostat.  For my set up I have a gas fired boiler with a pilot light
and a small battery/inverter combo to run the thermostat.

Thermostat circuits seem to be 24 volts AC in this country.  So I have
a 12 volt battery with a 100 watt inverter (small cig lighter type)
that puts 110 Volts into the transformer for the furnace when there is
a power failure.  I do not have it automated, but I should at some
point do that.

I have not investigated to see if the control circuit will work with
DC.  If so then one could just get a couple of 12 volt 7AH gell cells,
wire them in series and home brew a small 24V dc trickle charger to
power the whole thing all the time.  This is real easy using linear
technology by picking up a transformer and 4 diodes from Radio Shack.

I hope this helps.


-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Jan  7 08:52:45 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 08:52:45 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC*BUG This Week
Message-ID: <50EAD32D.1070501@ceetonetechnology.com>

NYC*BUG January 9th: Eitan Adler on "What's New with FreeBSD?"
NYC*BUG February 7th: John Baldwin on SMPng
BSDCan Call for Papers Open until January 19th

***

January 9 2013 @ 18:45 - Location: Suspenders
http://www.nycbug.org/?action=locations#suspenders

What's New with FreeBSD, Eitan Adler

This will be an open-ended Q&A-style talk covering some new of recent 
enhancements to FreeBSD as well some of the experimental upcoming 
changes. By the end of the talk you should have heard about one FreeBSD 
technology you hadn't heard of before.

About the speaker:

Eitan is a third year student at SUNY Binghamton studying Computer 
Science. He has been using FreeBSD since 6.2. He is a src, ports, and 
doc developer and is part of the BugBusting team.

* * *

BSDCan 2013 will be held 17-18 May, 2013 in Ottawa at the University of
Ottawa. It will be preceded by two days of tutorials on 15-16 May.

NOTE: This will be Fri/Sat with tutorials on Wed/Thu.

We are now accepting proposals for talks.  You have until January 19th.

See the schedule below.

The talks should be designed with a very strong technical content bias.
Proposals of a business development or marketing nature are not
appropriate for this venue.

If you are doing something interesting with a BSD operating system,
please submit a proposal. Whether you are developing a very complex
system using BSD as the foundation, or helping others and have a story
to tell about how BSD played a role, we want to hear about your
experience.  People using BSD as a platform for research are also
encouraged to submit a proposal. Possible topics include:

* How we manage a giant installation with respect to handling spam.
* and/or sysadmin.
* and/or networking.

 From the BSDCan website, the Archives section will allow you to review
the wide variety of past BSDCan presentations as further examples.

Both users and developers are encouraged to share their experiences.

The schedule is:

1 Dec 2012 Proposal acceptance begins
19 Jan 2013 Proposal acceptance ends
19 Feb 2013 Confirmation of accepted proposals

See also <http://www.bsdcan.org/2013/papers.php>

Instructions for submitting a proposal to BSDCan 2013 are available
from: <http://www.bsdcan.org/2013/submissions.php>


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Mon Jan  7 10:12:34 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:12:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NbRq5WXsb1ujJYppp1WCxpiKdnwsamvqoxSeSgPEddQAg@mail.gmail.com>

All
  So I had the first of 5 boiler makers / plumbers show up and tell me what
they can do. This guy said the boilers he installs are 24VAC powered , he
did not think you could easily run them off batteries; and that I should
speak to an electrician .

The funny thing I still can not figure out is, why the hell do boilers user
AC and not DC ? Does anyone know why ?

In other news the system that runs with out electricity, a/k/a a thermopile
powered microvolt boiler, from what I have read, is now outlawed as they
are to inefficient .






On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Brett Wynkoop <nycbug at wynn.com> wrote:

> Greeting-
>
> In any case you will need some source or electric power to run the
> thermostat.  For my set up I have a gas fired boiler with a pilot light
> and a small battery/inverter combo to run the thermostat.
>
> Thermostat circuits seem to be 24 volts AC in this country.  So I have
> a 12 volt battery with a 100 watt inverter (small cig lighter type)
> that puts 110 Volts into the transformer for the furnace when there is
> a power failure.  I do not have it automated, but I should at some
> point do that.
>
> I have not investigated to see if the control circuit will work with
> DC.  If so then one could just get a couple of 12 volt 7AH gell cells,
> wire them in series and home brew a small 24V dc trickle charger to
> power the whole thing all the time.  This is real easy using linear
> technology by picking up a transformer and 4 diodes from Radio Shack.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
>
> -Brett
>
> --
>
> wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
> 917-642-6924
> 718-717-5435
>
>


-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From mikel.king at olivent.com  Mon Jan  7 10:27:10 2013
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:27:10 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NbRq5WXsb1ujJYppp1WCxpiKdnwsamvqoxSeSgPEddQAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>
 <CAMXt9NbRq5WXsb1ujJYppp1WCxpiKdnwsamvqoxSeSgPEddQAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CBC8BD27-E541-4A3E-AE3B-415B8B59F80E@olivent.com>



> All
>   So I had the first of 5 boiler makers / plumbers show up and tell me what they can do. This guy said the boilers he installs are 24VAC powered , he did not think you could easily run them off batteries; and that I should speak to an electrician . 

Use ate least two batteries in series to create a sustained 24Vdc then install one of these bad boys?
	
	http://www.powerstream.com/inv-24vdc-24vac.htm

> The funny thing I still can not figure out is, why the hell do boilers user AC and not DC ? Does anyone know why ? 
> 
> In other news the system that runs with out electricity, a/k/a a thermopile powered microvolt boiler, from what I have read, is now outlawed as they are to inefficient . 




From nycbug at wynn.com  Mon Jan  7 15:23:48 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 15:23:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fw:  OT: I need a new steam boiler
Message-ID: <20130107152348.5fb0d13f@ivory.wynn.com>


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An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Brett Wynkoop <wynkoop at wynn.com>
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 11:34:36 -0500
Size: 2989
URL: <https://lists.nycbug.org:8443/pipermail/talk/attachments/20130107/7343bb09/attachment.eml>

From mark.saad at ymail.com  Mon Jan  7 16:04:13 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 16:04:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <20130107113436.0d8384ae@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>
 <CAMXt9NbRq5WXsb1ujJYppp1WCxpiKdnwsamvqoxSeSgPEddQAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130107113436.0d8384ae@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NYYiWjGVsh4=qVrXFem8ZjoJwFx_4sKn7HZTAodJaAi4g@mail.gmail.com>

Mikel, I will definitely need to buy that inverter. So far every boiler guy
said its 24VAC only no DC .

Brett , thanks for the insight in the use of VAC, I saw some talk about
running a lennox on VDC but I did not follow the line of thought in the
post. .

 The kick in the balls is the efficiency requirements they now have. I will
have to hack the install after its  approved by the town. For one there is
a positive air flow sensor. This is used to determine if you have good
combustion air . No positive air flow the control system trips the boiler .
You end up with a new having to get a new vent  IMHO since this is not a
high pressure boiler used by conEd I could care less about this. I am not
even sure how much this improves the burner.




On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Brett Wynkoop <wynkoop at wynn.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:12:34 -0500
> Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>
> > All
> >   So I had the first of 5 boiler makers / plumbers show up and tell
> > me what they can do. This guy said the boilers he installs are 24VAC
> > powered , he did not think you could easily run them off batteries;
> > and that I should speak to an electrician .
> >
> > The funny thing I still can not figure out is, why the hell do
> > boilers user AC and not DC ? Does anyone know why ?
> >
>
> They are low voltage for safety.
>
> They are AC for simplicity.  No need for rectifiers.
>
> If this was 30 years ago with electromechanical thermostats and
> controls I would say you could interchange DC for the AC, but with the
> new controls I would not do that without talking to the thermostat
> maker and the boiler maker.
>
>
>                               Bi-Metalic-Strip
>
>         24v AC o-------------------------o/ o--------
>                                                      3
>                                                      3 Fuel Solonoid
>                                                      3
>                o--------------------------------------
>
>
> The above is the control circuit of a boiler 30 years ago.  It will run
> either AC or DC as the thermostat and solonoid will normally operate on
> either.
>
> With today's modern units I am sure they have replaced the simple
> bimetalic strip with something electronic and who knows what the fuel
> solonoid looks like.  It may not actually be electromagenitic any more.
>
> Check with the maker of the boiler and control systems.  The installer
> will not know how it works, only that he needs to connect it up like
> the instructions say.
>
> -Brett
>
> --
>
> wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
> 917-642-6924
> 718-717-5435
>
>


-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From mikel.king at olivent.com  Mon Jan  7 16:16:55 2013
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 16:16:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NYYiWjGVsh4=qVrXFem8ZjoJwFx_4sKn7HZTAodJaAi4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130104182934.683f8ec3@ivory.wynn.com>
 <CAMXt9NbRq5WXsb1ujJYppp1WCxpiKdnwsamvqoxSeSgPEddQAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130107113436.0d8384ae@ivory.wynn.com>
 <CAMXt9NYYiWjGVsh4=qVrXFem8ZjoJwFx_4sKn7HZTAodJaAi4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F8BF2899-FB71-40B3-9043-6691F17AC19C@olivent.com>


On Jan 7, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> Mikel, I will definitely need to buy that inverter. So far every boiler guy said its 24VAC only no DC .
> 

You will want to connect the batteries in parallel for the 12Vdc source this will give you more amperage. I have two 15watt solar panels I picked up from Northern Tool that I use to keep my batteries charged, depending on usage you may need larger panels. Also note that that inverter is 40watt but they do sell larger ones depending on need. 

> Brett , thanks for the insight in the use of VAC, I saw some talk about running a lennox on VDC but I did not follow the line of thought in the post. .
> 
>  The kick in the balls is the efficiency requirements they now have. I will have to hack the install after its  approved by the town. For one there is a positive air flow sensor. This is used to determine if you have good combustion air . No positive air flow the control system trips the boiler . You end up with a new having to get a new vent  IMHO since this is not a high pressure boiler used by conEd I could care less about this. I am not even sure how much this improves the burner.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Brett Wynkoop <wynkoop at wynn.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 10:12:34 -0500
> Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
> 
> > All
> >   So I had the first of 5 boiler makers / plumbers show up and tell
> > me what they can do. This guy said the boilers he installs are 24VAC
> > powered , he did not think you could easily run them off batteries;
> > and that I should speak to an electrician .
> >
> > The funny thing I still can not figure out is, why the hell do
> > boilers user AC and not DC ? Does anyone know why ?
> >
> 
> They are low voltage for safety.
> 
> They are AC for simplicity.  No need for rectifiers.
> 
> If this was 30 years ago with electromechanical thermostats and
> controls I would say you could interchange DC for the AC, but with the
> new controls I would not do that without talking to the thermostat
> maker and the boiler maker.
> 
> 
>                               Bi-Metalic-Strip
> 
>         24v AC o-------------------------o/ o--------
>                                                      3
>                                                      3 Fuel Solonoid
>                                                      3
>                o--------------------------------------
> 
> 
> The above is the control circuit of a boiler 30 years ago.  It will run
> either AC or DC as the thermostat and solonoid will normally operate on
> either.
> 
> With today's modern units I am sure they have replaced the simple
> bimetalic strip with something electronic and who knows what the fuel
> solonoid looks like.  It may not actually be electromagenitic any more.
> 
> Check with the maker of the boiler and control systems.  The installer
> will not know how it works, only that he needs to connect it up like
> the instructions say.
> 
> -Brett
> 
> --
> 
> wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
> 917-642-6924
> 718-717-5435
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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From ajstack at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 19:07:33 2013
From: ajstack at gmail.com (Andrew Stack)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 19:07:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>

Mark:

NG/LP boilers tend to me more complicated then plain old oil fired boilers.  They are complicated in the sense that there are more safety features build in like roll out cut off switches, high temp limit switches, gas valve, thermocouple, damper switches...and in some sense the aqua stat....etc..etc...(they are all on the 24 volt side of the secondary)  All these things make sure that the boiler won't fire if the conditions aren't met.  Which really means you won't have an unintended NG explosion.  But I guess any NG explosion is unintended....My recommendation is *NOT* to work around these features.  Especially with steam and NG (different pressures could be dangerous).  Oil fired boilers have there own features/problems/issues.

I think years ago, beckett oil guns made some sort of ignition system that was dc....it was great b/c when your power went out, the boiler would still fire.  Now i think they all use a VAC/transformer type ignition system.....(i could be wrong)

The 24VAC is run off the secondary of the 120VAC transformer.  Look at the wiring diagram on your boiler/owners manual...Or just follow your 120VAC line into the boiler where it terminates.  Perhaps you could subvert the primary on the transformer, back feed the secondary  with 24 volts....and all your controls should work (i.e. the safety features.)  On the secondary side of the transformer...it should all be 24 volt...I don't know if VDC will create more heat in the circuit though......never tried it.  

B/C you have steam.....you probably have a one pipe supply/return......Which means you don't need a circulator pump.  Your idea should work.  Steam gives off nice heat too.  But again, don't compromise the safety features built into the system.

-andrew-



On Jan 4, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> 
> All
>   I have a way off topic question . My home heating system is on the fritz again . It's a antique oil fired steam boiler , it's 85 years old by my guess . I want to convert to a gas fired steam boiler , but I want one I can run on batteries or one that doesn't need external power at all. From my research I could get a standing pilot , micro volt, natural draft vented, gas fired steam boiler . In that setup the pilot light heats a thermocouple which generates the micro volt power to run the gas valve and control system .  Does anyone have this sort of setup ? 
> 
> The other option would be to go with a electric ignition , natural draft vented gas fired steam boiler and have a manual switch setup after the ac/dc transformer to allow me to switch to some  deep cycle marine batteries , which I could in turn charge via solar or standard electric ?  The batteries would only be used in a power failure . Anyone ever tried this ?   
> 
> Well if anyone has any ideas or can recommended a good boiler let me know .
> 
> 
> ---
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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From nycbug at wynn.com  Mon Jan  7 20:43:53 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 20:43:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130107204353.6bc30d28@ivory.wynn.com>

On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 19:07:33 -0500
Andrew Stack <ajstack at gmail.com> wrote:


> The 24VAC is run off the secondary of the 120VAC transformer.  Look
> at the wiring diagram on your boiler/owners manual...Or just follow
> your 120VAC line into the boiler where it terminates.  Perhaps you
> could subvert the primary on the transformer, back feed the
> secondary  with 24 volts....and all your controls should work (i.e.
> the safety features.)  On the secondary side of the transformer...it
> should all be 24 volt...I don't know if VDC will create more heat in
> the circuit though......never tried it.  
> 

o  DO NOT PUT A BATTERY ACROSS YOUR 24 AC line!
   Bad things will happen.....believe me I am a licensed professional
   (yep I used to do something before computers)

o  Here is a proper way to do the backup dc thing using simple off the
   shelf components that you may already have around.

    110 VAC ---> 200 watt UPS --> 110/24 volt furnace xfrmr

Simple  and easy. The hardest part will be putting a plug on the
primary of the transformer to plug it into the UPS.

Your other alternative is something like this:

    110 VAC --> charger -> battery -> inverter -> 24 volt ckt on furnace

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From submodd at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 22:06:31 2013
From: submodd at gmail.com (gm)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2013 22:06:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <20130107204353.6bc30d28@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
 <20130107204353.6bc30d28@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CAOYiD9MF48EKTFa8-6_O1Asm_yv4q0CMhy3vLq5ZtwH_6qxf1Q@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, "Homeowners with home heating oil tanks should be aware that their
tanks may have been
damaged or at risk of leaking as a result of Sandy, and may be eligible for
assistance with
clean-up from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.
For more information, contact:
NY State Department of Environmental Conservation at: (718) 482-7376."

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Brett Wynkoop <nycbug at wynn.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 19:07:33 -0500
> Andrew Stack <ajstack at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > The 24VAC is run off the secondary of the 120VAC transformer.  Look
> > at the wiring diagram on your boiler/owners manual...Or just follow
> > your 120VAC line into the boiler where it terminates.  Perhaps you
> > could subvert the primary on the transformer, back feed the
> > secondary  with 24 volts....and all your controls should work (i.e.
> > the safety features.)  On the secondary side of the transformer...it
> > should all be 24 volt...I don't know if VDC will create more heat in
> > the circuit though......never tried it.
> >
>
> o  DO NOT PUT A BATTERY ACROSS YOUR 24 AC line!
>    Bad things will happen.....believe me I am a licensed professional
>    (yep I used to do something before computers)
>
> o  Here is a proper way to do the backup dc thing using simple off the
>    shelf components that you may already have around.
>
>     110 VAC ---> 200 watt UPS --> 110/24 volt furnace xfrmr
>
> Simple  and easy. The hardest part will be putting a plug on the
> primary of the transformer to plug it into the UPS.
>
> Your other alternative is something like this:
>
>     110 VAC --> charger -> battery -> inverter -> 24 volt ckt on furnace
>
> -Brett
>
> --
>
> wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
> 917-642-6924
> 718-717-5435
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From raulcuza at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 00:01:20 2013
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 00:01:20 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2wr74y=MJLmaDaWa=zqaBTzL_RCiX=E1EOoJH94YKk8oA@mail.gmail.com>

> <snip>
> The 24VAC is run off the secondary of the 120VAC transformer.  Look at the
> wiring diagram on your boiler/owners manual...

The diagrams are also available online if you want to see the
controller diagram before purchasing. E.G.
http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/installation_maintenance/Lennox_GWB8-IE_IOM.pdf

I agree with Brett, but as a non-licensed non-professional
non-electrician (a physic degree can be a dangerous thing), that a UPS
would be the best way to go.

Almost restrained myself from making a comment about using a server
farm instead of a boiler to heat the house.

Ra?l



From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Jan  8 11:32:16 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 11:32:16 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: I need a new steam boiler
In-Reply-To: <CAOnfn2wr74y=MJLmaDaWa=zqaBTzL_RCiX=E1EOoJH94YKk8oA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NYGsLxnaUO9r89qKH552wMu1MRLig6vEwH4o0LWibr4aA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9FBAAEF1-8361-4032-95FC-23CB3ABD0FE8@gmail.com>
 <CAOnfn2wr74y=MJLmaDaWa=zqaBTzL_RCiX=E1EOoJH94YKk8oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9Na=hmR4byRQ12WF6HfKjKDDy+1DyQu-w7w45VCsbi_NQQ@mail.gmail.com>

All
  So I wanted to point out , I had no intention of removing any of the
safety controls. I wanted to just remove some of the extra  sensors /
controls added to improve efficiency and lower emissions; to improve
reliability by simplifying the controls and removing extra trip points in
the boiler control. Most of the boilers I saw had senors to trip the boiler
, IE shut it down safely , if the system is not running efficiently. IMHO I
want heat when its cold, and it the system trips because its only running
at 70% efficiency I will be super pissed . Other then that I wanted to , in
the event of a power failure, a simple way to run the system off a battery.
Either a UPS or a home brewed setup ; using an inverter and maybe a solar
charger.

Based on what everyone said the best setup I see here is this  Boiler ->
Step-down transformer - > NEMA 5-20p plug -> NEMA 5-20r socket -> existing
20amp circuit  .  This way I could reuse a UPS I have to run the setup for
some time.


Then if I wanted to in modify this for stand-by power would do this,


Boiler -> Furnace transfer switch*---> 24VAC Step-down transformer -> NEMA
5-20p plug -> NEMA 5-20r socket -> existing 20amp
circuit                                         |
                                                  |
                                                  \----> 24VDC to 24VAC
inverter -> 24VDC Power , batteries solar etc



http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-TF201W/p1096.html
http://www.powerstream.com/inv-24vdc-24vac.htm

What do you all think, and I missing something ?


On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Raul Cuza <raulcuza at gmail.com> wrote:

> > <snip>
> > The 24VAC is run off the secondary of the 120VAC transformer.  Look at
> the
> > wiring diagram on your boiler/owners manual...
>
> The diagrams are also available online if you want to see the
> controller diagram before purchasing. E.G.
> http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/installation_maintenance/Lennox_GWB8-IE_IOM.pdf
>
> I agree with Brett, but as a non-licensed non-professional
> non-electrician (a physic degree can be a dangerous thing), that a UPS
> would be the best way to go.
>
> Almost restrained myself from making a comment about using a server
> farm instead of a boiler to heat the house.
>
> Ra?l
>



-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  9 10:10:05 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:10:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC*BUG Tonight
Message-ID: <50ED884D.7010704@ceetonetechnology.com>

NYC*BUG January 9th: Eitan Adler on "What's New with FreeBSD?"
NYC*BUG February 7th: John Baldwin on SMPng
BSDCan Call for Papers Open until January 19th
Recertify your BSDA Certification

***

January 9 2013 @ 18:45 - Location: Suspenders
http://www.nycbug.org/?action=locations#suspenders

What's New with FreeBSD, Eitan Adler

This will be an open-ended Q&A-style talk covering some new of recent 
enhancements to FreeBSD as well some of the experimental upcoming 
changes. By the end of the talk you should have heard about one FreeBSD 
technology you hadn't heard of before.

About the speaker:

Eitan is a third year student at SUNY Binghamton studying Computer 
Science. He has been using FreeBSD since 6.2. He is a src, ports, and 
doc developer and is part of the BugBusting team.

* * *

BSDCan 2013 will be held 17-18 May, 2013 in Ottawa at the University of
Ottawa. It will be preceded by two days of tutorials on 15-16 May.

NOTE: This will be Fri/Sat with tutorials on Wed/Thu.

We are now accepting proposals for talks.  You have until January 19th.

See the schedule below.

The talks should be designed with a very strong technical content bias.
Proposals of a business development or marketing nature are not
appropriate for this venue.

If you are doing something interesting with a BSD operating system,
please submit a proposal. Whether you are developing a very complex
system using BSD as the foundation, or helping others and have a story
to tell about how BSD played a role, we want to hear about your
experience.  People using BSD as a platform for research are also
encouraged to submit a proposal. Possible topics include:

* How we manage a giant installation with respect to handling spam.
* and/or sysadmin.
* and/or networking.

 From the BSDCan website, the Archives section will allow you to review
the wide variety of past BSDCan presentations as further examples.

Both users and developers are encouraged to share their experiences.

The schedule is:

1 Dec 2012 Proposal acceptance begins
19 Jan 2013 Proposal acceptance ends
19 Feb 2013 Confirmation of accepted proposals

See also <http://www.bsdcan.org/2013/papers.php>

Instructions for submitting a proposal to BSDCan 2013 are available
from: <http://www.bsdcan.org/2013/submissions.php>

* * *

Is time almost up on your BSDA Certification?

Check out how to update your certification 
http://www.bsdcertification.org/news/bsda-recertification-requirements-published


From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 10:19:06 2013
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:19:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Open Source VM Depot for Azure, no as of yetBSD
Message-ID: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

http://vmdepot.msopentech.com/List/Index?sort=Date&search=bsd

If someone wants to be the first.

Justin
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From nycbug at wynn.com  Wed Jan  9 10:48:35 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:48:35 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Open Source VM Depot for Azure, no as of yetBSD
In-Reply-To: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130109104835.42f67a5d@ivory.wynn.com>

On Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:19:06 -0500
Justin Dearing <zippy1981 at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://vmdepot.msopentech.com/List/Index?sort=Date&search=bsd
> 
> If someone wants to be the first.
> 
> Justin

And why do I want to purchase Microsoft Software to run my free
software on top of their VM?

Oh right, so I can give money to someone that will help bad guys gain
access to my hardware by virtue of their poor software design!

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  9 11:15:20 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:15:20 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Open Source VM Depot for Azure, no as of yetBSD
In-Reply-To: <20130109104835.42f67a5d@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130109104835.42f67a5d@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50ED9798.5040400@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/09/13 10:48, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2013 10:19:06 -0500
> Justin Dearing <zippy1981 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://vmdepot.msopentech.com/List/Index?sort=Date&search=bsd
>>
>> If someone wants to be the first.
>>
>> Justin
>
> And why do I want to purchase Microsoft Software to run my free
> software on top of their VM?
>
> Oh right, so I can give money to someone that will help bad guys gain
> access to my hardware by virtue of their poor software design!

Valid point, but are the FreeBSD EC2 images much different in the way of 
security and data privacy?

It comes down to protocol.  An MS vm system could be fine for testing at 
some places, and on that note it's worthwhile.

g



From nycbug at wynn.com  Wed Jan  9 11:43:06 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 11:43:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Open Source VM Depot for Azure, no as of yetBSD
In-Reply-To: <50ED9798.5040400@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130109104835.42f67a5d@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50ED9798.5040400@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20130109114306.20d342fa@ivory.wynn.com>

On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:15:20 -0500
George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:


> It comes down to protocol.  An MS vm system could be fine for testing
> at some places, and on that note it's worthwhile.
> 
> g

And how much money do you think will end up in the FreeBSD foundation
from my purchase of software to run MS vm system so I can create a disk
image to help MS sell more vm licenses?   

I would rather donate money to various free software projects.  Now if
MS wanted to pay me to develop a VM image for their software I would be
happy to do it, but I am not going to pay them to help make Free
Software extinct or dependent on them to run.

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  9 11:48:38 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:48:38 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Open Source VM Depot for Azure, no as of yetBSD
In-Reply-To: <20130109114306.20d342fa@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CABsCM1PZ4K5WKj9UY+_JP9xFHfeNmsrBttMz09o8WnOTMKp+Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130109104835.42f67a5d@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50ED9798.5040400@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20130109114306.20d342fa@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50ED9F66.8080009@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/09/13 11:43, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:15:20 -0500
> George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>
>
>> It comes down to protocol.  An MS vm system could be fine for testing
>> at some places, and on that note it's worthwhile.
>>
>> g
>
> And how much money do you think will end up in the FreeBSD foundation
> from my purchase of software to run MS vm system so I can create a disk
> image to help MS sell more vm licenses?

Even worse.  Think about the BSD/MIT license.  I mean, OpenSSH.... 
Cisco, anyone?

But that's sort of the point.  Use it here there everywhere, but don't 
sue us.

>
> I would rather donate money to various free software projects.  Now if
> MS wanted to pay me to develop a VM image for their software I would be
> happy to do it, but I am not going to pay them to help make Free
> Software extinct or dependent on them to run.

Of course, but you (and I and we) are not the typical users, 
fortunately/unfortunately.

Providing another 'platform' to use any BSD on is a good thing.

What about some Windows shop looking at testing their software on FBSD? 
  Or looking to compare their software on FreeBSD?

The more the merrier IMHO.

g


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan  9 15:23:39 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:23:39 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] I'm Looking for 1 Extra Shmoo Ticket
Message-ID: <1357763044-8803228.01999315.fr09KNddh010709@rs139.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

Sry to bother with this, but I'm looking for 1 extra ShmooCon Ticket-

If anyone has any leads, I'd be much obliged, hit me off-list.

/salute

Best,
.ike



From mark.saad at ymail.com  Thu Jan 10 16:49:48 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:49:48 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Xorg VESA Driver Fun
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NZ1QfQRBBsj02b1g6t9Q_Yvt-zrrXAGXZNjgjkGuuHibA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Talk
  I am playing with new desktop at work and I am running into a issue with
the video card; I want to see what you all think.

So for starter the system board is an Foxconn D250s which has an Intel
Cedertrail CPU and GPU.  In reality the GPU is actually a PowerVR gpu.
There is a Closed source Linux blob for xorg and there is no chance to make
it work on FreeBSD or any 64bit OS .

So for now I am stuck with the VESA driver .  I want to setup the driver to
drive a 1680x1050 monitor.

I went and did the following steps in a running xorg setup

1. I used cvt to get the new modeline

msaad at stereo-hippo:~> cvt 1680 1050
# 1680x1050 59.95 Hz (CVT 1.76MA) hsync: 65.29 kHz; pclk: 146.25 MHz
Modeline "1680x1050_60.00"  146.25  1680 1784 1960 2240  1050 1053 1059
1089 -hsync +vsync

2. They I used xrandr to add the new mode

msaad at stereo-hippo:~> xrandr --newmode "1680x1050_60.00"  146.25  1680 1784
1960 2240  1050 1053 1059 1089 -HSync +VSync

3. Then I added it with xrandr
msaad at stereo-hippo:~> xrandr --addmode default  "1680x1050_60.00"

4. Then I verified it was added

msaad at stereo-hippo:~> xrandr --verbose
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
Screen 0: minimum 640 x 480, current 1280 x 1024, maximum 1680 x 1050
default connected 1280x1024+0+0 (0x4a) normal (normal) 0mm x 0mm
        Identifier: 0x49
        Timestamp:  2903289
        Subpixel:   no subpixels
        Clones:
        CRTC:       0
        CRTCs:      0
        Transform:  1.000000 0.000000 0.000000
                    0.000000 1.000000 0.000000
                    0.000000 0.000000 1.000000
                   filter:
  1280x1024 (0x4a)    0.0MHz *current
        h: width  1280 start    0 end    0 total 1280 skew    0 clock
0.0KHz
        v: height 1024 start    0 end    0 total 1024           clock
0.0Hz
  1024x768 (0x4b)    0.0MHz
        h: width  1024 start    0 end    0 total 1024 skew    0 clock
0.0KHz
        v: height  768 start    0 end    0 total  768           clock
0.0Hz
  800x600 (0x4c)    0.0MHz
        h: width   800 start    0 end    0 total  800 skew    0 clock
0.0KHz
        v: height  600 start    0 end    0 total  600           clock
0.0Hz
  640x480 (0x4d)    0.0MHz
        h: width   640 start    0 end    0 total  640 skew    0 clock
0.0KHz
        v: height  480 start    0 end    0 total  480           clock
0.0Hz
  1680x1050_60.00 (0x4e)  146.2MHz -HSync +VSync
        h: width  1680 start 1784 end 1960 total 2240 skew    0 clock
65.3KHz
        v: height 1050 start 1053 end 1059 total 1089           clock
60.0Hz

5. Then I tried to switch to the new mode and it did not work.

msaad at stereo-hippo:~> xrandr --output default --mode "1680x1050_60.00"
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed

I tried to set the crtc value and it still does not work .

msaad at stereo-hippo:~> xrandr --output default --crtc 0 --mode
"1680x1050_60.00"
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
xrandr: Configure crtc 0 failed


So does anyone know what I am missing ?



-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From lists at eitanadler.com  Thu Jan 10 16:51:54 2013
From: lists at eitanadler.com (Eitan Adler)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:54 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
Message-ID: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,

I think I wasn't clear in my announcement and discussion after:

- the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on Feburary 28th

- the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is still deprecated, but
doesn't have a definite end-date.  It is still possible to use csup.

- the *documentation* CVS/csup infrastructure is already disabled

-- 
Eitan Adler


From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan 10 19:14:46 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:14:46 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:54 -0500
Eitan Adler <lists at eitanadler.com> wrote:

> Hey,
> 
> I think I wasn't clear in my announcement and discussion after:
> 
> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on
> Feburary 28th
> 
> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is still deprecated, but
> doesn't have a definite end-date.  It is still possible to use csup.
> 
> - the *documentation* CVS/csup infrastructure is already disabled
> 

So you are saying that everyone needs to build/install svn on their
boxes?  Some of the boxes I am working on do not have the disk space
needed to grab ports and build svn.

Is there a plan to put svn in base since it will be needed to grab code
for kernels and world?

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From lists at eitanadler.com  Thu Jan 10 19:18:15 2013
From: lists at eitanadler.com (Eitan Adler)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:18:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CAF6rxgmWcdHDs6WKhT3TenmZghS4Fp4N+sWA7NUA7vtiu4rSFA@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 January 2013 19:14, Brett Wynkoop <nycbug at wynn.com> wrote:>
> So you are saying that everyone needs to build/install svn on their
> boxes?  Some of the boxes I am working on do not have the disk space
> needed to grab ports and build svn.

portsnap will work for ports

freebsd-update will work for source.  As of now, csup will also work for source.

> Is there a plan to put svn in base since it will be needed to grab code
> for kernels and world?

No. The dependencies are too heavy.

-- 
Eitan Adler


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 10 19:23:30 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:30 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/10/13 16:14, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:54 -0500
> Eitan Adler<lists at eitanadler.com>  wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I think I wasn't clear in my announcement and discussion after:
>>
>> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on
>> Feburary 28th
>>
>> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is still deprecated, but
>> doesn't have a definite end-date.  It is still possible to use csup.
>>
>> - the *documentation* CVS/csup infrastructure is already disabled
>>
> So you are saying that everyone needs to build/install svn on their
> boxes?  Some of the boxes I am working on do not have the disk space
> needed to grab ports and build svn.
>
> Is there a plan to put svn in base since it will be needed to grab code
> for kernels and world?
i'm a little confused as to how can't have enough space to install the 
svn package but still have enough space to manually build kernel+world.

i've seen a lot of people bring this argument up on various freebsd 
threads and i'm just not getting it...

having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i 
would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to happen.

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 10 19:26:44 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:26:44 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <CAF6rxgmWcdHDs6WKhT3TenmZghS4Fp4N+sWA7NUA7vtiu4rSFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <CAF6rxgmWcdHDs6WKhT3TenmZghS4Fp4N+sWA7NUA7vtiu4rSFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50EF5C44.1030805@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/10/13 16:18, Eitan Adler wrote:
> freebsd-update will work for source.  As of now, csup will also work for source.


oh interesting - i've never used freebsd-update for source checkouts and 
didn't realize that is possible.  i'll have to take a closer look at the 
man page to figure out how to do that.

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 10 19:44:06 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:44:06 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111003508.GD1358@glenbarber.us>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130111003508.GD1358@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <50EF6056.80205@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/10/13 16:35, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 04:23:30PM -0800, Pete Wright wrote:
>> having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i
>> would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to happen.
>>
> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/
>
> Glen
>
woot - thanks(again) DES!

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From lists at eitanadler.com  Thu Jan 10 19:50:58 2013
From: lists at eitanadler.com (Eitan Adler)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:50:58 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50EF6056.80205@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130111003508.GD1358@glenbarber.us> <50EF6056.80205@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <CAF6rxgkCaQQpBKnwqQ2y_4mDB9jxJrT-HZoHJ5a0n1JazprJbw@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 January 2013 19:44, Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
> On 01/10/13 16:35, Glen Barber wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 04:23:30PM -0800, Pete Wright wrote:
>>>
>>> having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i
>>> would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to happen.
>>>
>> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/
>>
>> Glen
>>
> woot - thanks(again) DES!

Note: this project is *stalled* and in need of someone to finish it.


-- 
Eitan Adler


From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Thu Jan 10 19:35:08 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:35:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20130111003508.GD1358@glenbarber.us>

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 04:23:30PM -0800, Pete Wright wrote:
> having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i 
> would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to happen.
> 

http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/

Glen

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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Thu Jan 10 20:20:13 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac Levy (.ike))
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:20:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1357867262-5419074.44279886.fr0B1KDP0030202@rs139.luxsci.com>

Eitan,

On Jan 10, 2013, at 4:51 PM, Eitan Adler wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I think I wasn't clear in my announcement and discussion after:
> 
> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on Feburary 28th
> 
> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is still deprecated, but
> doesn't have a definite end-date.  It is still possible to use csup.
> 
> - the *documentation* CVS/csup infrastructure is already disabled

More details on freebsd-announce@
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2013-January/001451.html

> 
> -- 
> Eitan Adler


--
In the meantime, based on discussions after your talk, generally NYC*BUG folks expressed:

- We (as FreeBSD users) can certainly keep up better with changes,
  - *Reading* Release Notes
    - Broadcasting/discussing major changes more widely to tech news/etc)
  - *Reading* freebsd-announce at freebsd.org

I think that's it, or did I miss something?

(The jist is, that in the sea of mailing lists, there are really only a few low-volume places where important changes are announced?)

Even if this deprecation feels a bit rushed, as admins, users, and as a community- we can do better too!

Best,
.ike





From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan 10 23:06:37 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:06:37 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:30 -0800
Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> i'm a little confused as to how can't have enough space to install
> the svn package but still have enough space to manually build
> kernel+world.
> 
> i've seen a lot of people bring this argument up on various freebsd 
> threads and i'm just not getting it...
> 
> having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i 
> would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to
> happen.
> 
> -pete
> 

Here we go:

wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % uname -a
FreeBSD beaglebone 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #10: Sat Jan  5
07:03:04 EST 2013
root at beaglebone:/sys/arm/compile/BEAGLEBONE-DEBUG  arm
wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 

wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % df -h
Filesystem        Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
/dev/mmcsd0s2a    7.2G    3.4G    3.3G    51%    /
devfs             1.0k    1.0k      0B   100%    /dev
wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 

That is the state just after make buildworld and before make make
buildkernel.  Many of the guys working on ARM stuff have 4Gb disks.  I
went large with 8Gb.

So now you know.

-Brett
-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Thu Jan 10 23:11:54 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:11:54 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 11:06:37PM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:30 -0800
> Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
> 
> > i'm a little confused as to how can't have enough space to install
> > the svn package but still have enough space to manually build
> > kernel+world.
> > 
> > i've seen a lot of people bring this argument up on various freebsd 
> > threads and i'm just not getting it...
> > 
> > having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i 
> > would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to
> > happen.
> > 
> > -pete
> > 
> 
> Here we go:
> 
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % uname -a
> FreeBSD beaglebone 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #10: Sat Jan  5
> 07:03:04 EST 2013
> root at beaglebone:/sys/arm/compile/BEAGLEBONE-DEBUG  arm
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 
> 
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % df -h
> Filesystem        Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> /dev/mmcsd0s2a    7.2G    3.4G    3.3G    51%    /
> devfs             1.0k    1.0k      0B   100%    /dev
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 
> 
> That is the state just after make buildworld and before make make
> buildkernel.  Many of the guys working on ARM stuff have 4Gb disks.  I
> went large with 8Gb.
> 

Technically, you should 'buildworld' before 'buildkernel' so the kernel
toolchain exists.  Otherwise, kernel build can fail for strange reasons.

That is, of course, unless you have built kernel toolchain prior, which
space issues aside, is a waste of time IMHO.

Glen

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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 11 13:13:49 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:13:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Jan 17: Special Meeting with Kirk McKusick
Message-ID: <50F0565D.9080909@ceetonetechnology.com>

Kirk McKusick, one of the original Berkeley Unix developers who 
continues to play an enormous role in the BSD community, will be 
speaking at a special meeting on Thursday, January 17th at 45 E 20th 
Street in Manhattan at the offices of Axial Market.  The event starts at 
630 PM.

This is not an official NYC*BUG event, but for anyone who knows who Kirk 
is, you should know that the opportunity should not be missed.

We strongly recommend RSVPing at either 
http://thefreebsdproject.eventbrite.com/ or by emailing matt(dot)story 
(at) axialmarket(dot)com.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Jan 11 13:18:32 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:18:32 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50F05778.4060705@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/10/13 20:06, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:30 -0800
> Pete Wright<pete at nomadlogic.org>  wrote:
>
>> i'm a little confused as to how can't have enough space to install
>> the svn package but still have enough space to manually build
>> kernel+world.
>>
>> i've seen a lot of people bring this argument up on various freebsd
>> threads and i'm just not getting it...
>>
>> having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn i
>> would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to
>> happen.
>>
>> -pete
>>
> Here we go:
>
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % uname -a
> FreeBSD beaglebone 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #10: Sat Jan  5
> 07:03:04 EST 2013
> root at beaglebone:/sys/arm/compile/BEAGLEBONE-DEBUG  arm
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ %
>
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % df -h
> Filesystem        Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> /dev/mmcsd0s2a    7.2G    3.4G    3.3G    51%    /
> devfs             1.0k    1.0k      0B   100%    /dev
> wynkoop at beaglebone:~ %
>
> That is the state just after make buildworld and before make make
> buildkernel.  Many of the guys working on ARM stuff have 4Gb disks.  I
> went large with 8Gb.
>
> So now you know.
yes, yes i know.

-p



-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Jan 11 16:36:36 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>

On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:11:54 -0500
Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 11:06:37PM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:23:30 -0800
> > Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > i'm a little confused as to how can't have enough space to install
> > > the svn package but still have enough space to manually build
> > > kernel+world.
> > > 
> > > i've seen a lot of people bring this argument up on various
> > > freebsd threads and i'm just not getting it...
> > > 
> > > having said that - if someone where able to port csup over to svn
> > > i would be a very happy person, but i really don't expect that to
> > > happen.
> > > 
> > > -pete
> > > 
> > 
> > Here we go:
> > 
> > wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % uname -a
> > FreeBSD beaglebone 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #10: Sat Jan  5
> > 07:03:04 EST 2013
> > root at beaglebone:/sys/arm/compile/BEAGLEBONE-DEBUG  arm
> > wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 
> > 
> > wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % df -h
> > Filesystem        Size    Used   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
> > /dev/mmcsd0s2a    7.2G    3.4G    3.3G    51%    /
> > devfs             1.0k    1.0k      0B   100%    /dev
> > wynkoop at beaglebone:~ % 
> > 
> > That is the state just after make buildworld and before make make
> > buildkernel.  Many of the guys working on ARM stuff have 4Gb
> > disks.  I went large with 8Gb.
> > 
> 
> Technically, you should 'buildworld' before 'buildkernel' so the
> kernel toolchain exists.  Otherwise, kernel build can fail for
> strange reasons.
>

And that is exactly what I said I did.  Please re-read the above.  I
have given you the state of my machine AFTER buildworld, but before
BUILDKERNEL.  

The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough room
to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for ports as
well.

Now to try and figure out how to keep pulling kernel and world sources
from the server after CVS is shutdown.  I have just looked at
www.freebsd.org and while they talk about cvs for ports going away and
point everyone at portsnap I see no reference to cvs for kernel and
world going away and no instructions on what to do in that case.  If
cvs is really going away for kernel and core maybe one of the core team
should see to it that the proper notes make it onto the site so as to
now leave people in a lurch.

Thanks!

-Brett
-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Fri Jan 11 16:43:26 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 04:36:36PM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> > > That is the state just after make buildworld and before make make
> > > buildkernel.  Many of the guys working on ARM stuff have 4Gb
> > > disks.  I went large with 8Gb.
> > > 
> > 
> > Technically, you should 'buildworld' before 'buildkernel' so the
> > kernel toolchain exists.  Otherwise, kernel build can fail for
> > strange reasons.
> >
> 
> And that is exactly what I said I did.  Please re-read the above.  I
> have given you the state of my machine AFTER buildworld, but before
> BUILDKERNEL.  
> 

Sorry, I misread it.

> The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough room
> to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for ports as
> well.
> 
> Now to try and figure out how to keep pulling kernel and world sources
> from the server after CVS is shutdown.  I have just looked at
> www.freebsd.org and while they talk about cvs for ports going away and
> point everyone at portsnap I see no reference to cvs for kernel and
> world going away and no instructions on what to do in that case.  If
> cvs is really going away for kernel and core maybe one of the core team
> should see to it that the proper notes make it onto the site so as to
> now leave people in a lurch.
> 

https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base

The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
for ... years now.

Glen

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From lists at eitanadler.com  Fri Jan 11 17:51:31 2013
From: lists at eitanadler.com (Eitan Adler)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:51:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com> <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <CAF6rxgn3M+66V8D89NM04LkwNW75kpdcydw9e0piMkm7Hd452Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 January 2013 16:36, Brett Wynkoop <nycbug at wynn.com> wrote:

> The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough room
> to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for ports as
> well.
>
> Now to try and figure out how to keep pulling kernel and world sources
> from the server after CVS is shutdown.  I have just looked at
> www.freebsd.org and while they talk about cvs for ports going away and
> point everyone at portsnap I see no reference to cvs for kernel and
> world going away and no instructions on what to do in that case.

This was my fault in the way I presented this announcement.

The world and kernel CVS (and csup) infrastructure is *not* going
away.  It is still considered deprecated.  There is no hard date for
when this will be turned off.  It is still a good idea to migrate away
from csup / CVS.

Only the *ports* CVS infrastructure has a hard date for when it will
be disabled: February 28th.

-- 
Eitan Adler


From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Jan 11 18:01:56 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:01:56 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:


> https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base
> 
> The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
> for ... years now.
> 
> Glen
> 

Glen-

Please excuse me, but as an old dog trying to learn new tricks what do
I do with that url?  

Seriously is the use of SVN to update base documented somewhere? 

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Jan 11 18:05:11 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:05:11 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50F09AA7.1030106@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/11/13 15:01, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
> Glen Barber<gjb at FreeBSD.org>  wrote:
>
>
>> https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base
>>
>> The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
>> for ... years now.
>>
>> Glen
>>
> Glen-
>
> Please excuse me, but as an old dog trying to learn new tricks what do
> I do with that url?


that is what is known as a URL which you can use with SVN to perform a 
checkout.  I'd suggest reading the SVN documentation:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/index.html


helpful commands:
svn co
svn up
svn diff
...

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 11 18:05:58 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:05:58 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50F09AD6.5050701@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/11/13 18:01, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
> Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:
>
>
>> https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base
>>
>> The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
>> for ... years now.
>>
>> Glen
>>
>
> Glen-
>
> Please excuse me, but as an old dog trying to learn new tricks what do
> I do with that url?
>
> Seriously is the use of SVN to update base documented somewhere?


It is in the FreeBSD handbook and wiki AFAIK....

svn co svn://blah/blah/blah /usr/ports

svn update /usr/ports

But you have to blow away the old ports tree first.

g



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Fri Jan 11 18:07:14 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:07:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <20130111230714.GC1359@glenbarber.us>

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 06:01:56PM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
> Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> > https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base
> > 
> > The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
> > for ... years now.
> > 
> > Glen
> > 
> 
> Glen-
> 
> Please excuse me, but as an old dog trying to learn new tricks what do
> I do with that url?  
> 
> Seriously is the use of SVN to update base documented somewhere? 
> 

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html

Glen

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From lists at eitanadler.com  Fri Jan 11 18:07:35 2013
From: lists at eitanadler.com (Eitan Adler)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:07:35 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50F09AD6.5050701@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com> <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com> <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09AD6.5050701@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAF6rxgnXpWZWDtbYPG6hvaVXMJTMeyBmmGORQgV1JxB3E5aJgg@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 January 2013 18:05, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> On 01/11/13 18:01, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:26 -0500
>> Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base
>>>
>>> The procedure for svn is similar to that of CVS.  src/ has been in SVN
>>> for ... years now.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>
>> Glen-
>>
>> Please excuse me, but as an old dog trying to learn new tricks what do
>> I do with that url?
>>
>> Seriously is the use of SVN to update base documented somewhere?


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/svn.html

-- 
Eitan Adler


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Jan 11 18:15:06 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:06 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/11/13 13:36, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>
> The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough room
> to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for ports as
> well.
we are talking about ~50MB of data fwiw to install svn and it's 
dependency tree.  obviously a non-trivial amount of disk space (and a 
good reason not to include it in base) but not 100's of MB either.  imho 
- just use packages, it will make your life easier.

notes from when i used to have to do builds on embedded devices when 
cross compilation was not an option - store your source on NFS.  it will:

1) give you better IOPS performance generally when compared to an 
embedded flash disk
2) help reduce wear and tear on flash cells
3) allow you to have multiple branches checked out and stored locally 
for development work.

>
> Now to try and figure out how to keep pulling kernel and world sources
> from the server after CVS is shutdown.  I have just looked at
> www.freebsd.org and while they talk about cvs for ports going away and
> point everyone at portsnap I see no reference to cvs for kernel and
> world going away and no instructions on what to do in that case.  If
> cvs is really going away for kernel and core maybe one of the core team
> should see to it that the proper notes make it onto the site so as to
> now leave people in a lurch.


lets take a deep breath here.

i am not a @freebsd.org member - but i am confident there will be a 
release announcement when the kernel+world before the official EOL of 
cvsup/csup happens.

i'd suggest also considering some of the advantages of moving to svn for 
source distribution as well.  for example, reduced management overhead 
by freebsd.org engineers since they do not have to officially support 
two SCM distribution models.  also, if you are performing local 
development i find it helpful to have the source history in my local 
checkout.  or someone can pickup where DES left off with svnsup.

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From nycbug at wynn.com  Fri Jan 11 18:52:11 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 18:52:11 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50F09AA7.1030106@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111214326.GB1359@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111180156.32c9bc02@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09AA7.1030106@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20130111185211.2a7e151d@ivory.wynn.com>

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:05:11 -0800
Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> that is what is known as a URL which you can use with SVN to perform
> a checkout.  I'd suggest reading the SVN documentation:
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/index.html
> 
> 
> helpful commands:
> svn co
> svn up
> svn diff
> ...
> 
> -pete
> 
 Thanks for the pointer to the DOCS!  Just what I needed.

-Brett


-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From nycbug at wynn.com  Sat Jan 12 01:48:26 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:48:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:06 -0800
Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> On 01/11/13 13:36, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> >
> > The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough
> > room to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for
> > ports as well.
> we are talking about ~50MB of data fwiw to install svn and it's 
> dependency tree.  obviously a non-trivial amount of disk space (and a 
> good reason not to include it in base) but not 100's of MB either.
> imho 
> - just use packages, it will make your life easier.

FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages

I am part of the group trying to get things functional on many of the
current cheap arm boards.  I am doing more breaking of things than
coding, but breaking things is important as well.

So far as your suggestion to mount /usr/src and /usr/ports from nfs it
is very good and I would already have done so, but I do not have any
working boxes with enough disk space.  I am also trying not to buy
anymore boxes.  I have 12 boxes running in my house now.  I am working
hard on this arm stuff with an eye to replacing most of my x86 boxes
with a few small arm boards with mostly non-rotating media.  I figure
my electric bill will drop by more than 50%.

-Brett
-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Sat Jan 12 02:02:19 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 02:02:19 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 01:48:26AM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages
> 

Package building on !x86 platforms is a touchy topic.

FWIW, it is something I have heavy interest in solving, but right now,
lack of access to !x86 architectures for me is the showstopper at the
moment.

Glen

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From edlinuxguru at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 15:00:19 2013
From: edlinuxguru at gmail.com (Edward Capriolo)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:00:19 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <CAENxBwyEBRLXbhdyq_XSwoY2BCTRFfoF1_yG3mzw9RJc_BfZRg@mail.gmail.com>

On a side note svn is good but git is just plain awesome sauce. At first I
was not much of a believer but being able to commit and branch offline is
really really slick.

You can also git follow an svn repo.

On Saturday, January 12, 2013, Glen Barber <gjb at freebsd.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 01:48:26AM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages
>>
>
> Package building on !x86 platforms is a touchy topic.
>
> FWIW, it is something I have heavy interest in solving, but right now,
> lack of access to !x86 architectures for me is the showstopper at the
> moment.
>
> Glen
>
>
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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Sat Jan 12 23:35:43 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:35:43 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com> <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <50F2399F.2010901@nomadlogic.org>

On 1/11/13 11:02 PM, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 01:48:26AM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages
>>
> Package building on !x86 platforms is a touchy topic.
>
> FWIW, it is something I have heavy interest in solving, but right now,
> lack of access to !x86 architectures for me is the showstopper at the
> moment.

ok let's make this happen :)

https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/

only sort of kidding...i'd chick in some money to help if there is 
interest....

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org



From nycbug at wynn.com  Sun Jan 13 13:46:09 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <50F2399F.2010901@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com>
 <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us>
 <50F2399F.2010901@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20130113134609.1a4ed6d7@ivory.wynn.com>

On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:35:43 -0800
Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> On 1/11/13 11:02 PM, Glen Barber wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 01:48:26AM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> >> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages
> >>
> > Package building on !x86 platforms is a touchy topic.
> >
> > FWIW, it is something I have heavy interest in solving, but right
> > now, lack of access to !x86 architectures for me is the showstopper
> > at the moment.
> 
> ok let's make this happen :)
> 
> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/
> 
> only sort of kidding...i'd chick in some money to help if there is 
> interest....

Pete-

When USB is working on the BeagleBone I intend to hang enough disk on
one of my boards,  I have 2 at the moment and plan on getting a third,
to be able to build common packages and have them for people to grab if
desired.  

For my own part I am not a fan of packages.  I have been building most
things I use from source for 30 years.  I only grab a package when I
can not get the source to build for some reason.

I prefer building and installing from ports because then I get to build
with the options I want.  Many programs have build time options.  I
also know that the resulting binaries are linked against the versions
of libraries I have on my system.  This seems to be more important in
the elf world than in the a.out world.  Can anyone explain to me why an
elf binary that was compiled on a system using libfoo.so.1 refuse to
run if you have libfoo.so.2 instead?  In the days of a.out binaries the
program would try to run in the case of libfoo.so --> libfoo.so.2
instead of libfoo.so.1.  If it ran it would issue a warning saying it
had a library mismatch.  I have wondered why the difference for years.
Maybe someone on the list can explain it to me. 

Of course you can work around the elf issue by installing the old
library, or symlinking to the old name, but it does make using packages
a pain if you have updated anything on your system beyond when the base
release was made.

-Brett


-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6924
718-717-5435



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Jan 13 14:04:06 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130113134609.1a4ed6d7@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com> <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130112070219.GD1359@glenbarber.us> <50F2399F.2010901@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130113134609.1a4ed6d7@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <50F30526.6060505@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/13/13 13:46, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:35:43 -0800
> Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
>
>> On 1/11/13 11:02 PM, Glen Barber wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 01:48:26AM -0500, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>>>> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages
>>>>
>>> Package building on !x86 platforms is a touchy topic.
>>>
>>> FWIW, it is something I have heavy interest in solving, but right
>>> now, lack of access to !x86 architectures for me is the showstopper
>>> at the moment.
>>
>> ok let's make this happen :)
>>
>> https://www.edis.at/en/server/colocation/austria/raspberrypi/
>>
>> only sort of kidding...i'd chick in some money to help if there is
>> interest....
>
> Pete-
>
> When USB is working on the BeagleBone I intend to hang enough disk on
> one of my boards,  I have 2 at the moment and plan on getting a third,
> to be able to build common packages and have them for people to grab if
> desired.
>
> For my own part I am not a fan of packages.  I have been building most
> things I use from source for 30 years.  I only grab a package when I
> can not get the source to build for some reason.
>
> I prefer building and installing from ports because then I get to build
> with the options I want.  Many programs have build time options.  I
> also know that the resulting binaries are linked against the versions
> of libraries I have on my system.  This seems to be more important in
> the elf world than in the a.out world.  Can anyone explain to me why an
> elf binary that was compiled on a system using libfoo.so.1 refuse to
> run if you have libfoo.so.2 instead?  In the days of a.out binaries the
> program would try to run in the case of libfoo.so --> libfoo.so.2
> instead of libfoo.so.1.  If it ran it would issue a warning saying it
> had a library mismatch.  I have wondered why the difference for years.
> Maybe someone on the list can explain it to me.
>
> Of course you can work around the elf issue by installing the old
> library, or symlinking to the old name, but it does make using packages
> a pain if you have updated anything on your system beyond when the base
> release was made.


That's all very legitimate, and I generally stick to source (from ports) 
as the preferred method.

However, there's a few things to keep in mind with an embedded system 
like FreeBSD ARM on a BeagleBone:

1.  There's usually (or should be) a narrow purpose to the system, and 
the number of applications installed is minimal.

2.  Prebuilt and custom packages will be simple enough (as in pkg_create 
now)

3.  Pkgng will make a lot of the difficult issues in the past 
irrelevant, as in the port and package versions will be kept 
synchronized, not as the current state where a port is updated and 
patched, while a package is a bit behind and may have a vulnerability 
that's even noted by portaudit.

4.  Not sure if freebsd-update is there, but it will be *my* tool for 
updating the base system, since all your talk of building worlds and 
galaxies is scary on a credit card-sized board with 256M of RAM.

I think Eitan mentioned (or I imagined) that packages will become the 
preferred method of application install instead of ports, which was 
always the case with OpenBSD.  It means not having to maintain local 
ports trees on embedded platforms, via NFS, USB or whatever.  Solve the 
storage issue and you still have a relatively slow processor.

Since I maintain a bunch of FreeBSD-based Soekris and Alix boards, I 
always prebuilt packages based on already installed ports with whatever 
options I need.  On occasion I had issues, but these are not multi-user 
systems, and are again, narrow in their function, and don't have a 
boatload of dependencies.  Of course, bootstrapping packages off of i386 
for i386 platforms is simple enough...

I know there is discussion of easing cross-platform building of 
packages, which would be another wonderful change.  So use that old i386 
box to build your custom ARM packages and be happy, at least some day.

g



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 14 13:02:14 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
Message-ID: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>

was just reading the quarterly report for freebsd and spotted this gem - 
has anyone taken a poke at this yet?

FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)

    Contact: Tom Rhodes <trhodes at FreeBSD.org>

    FSC has been moved into the ports system (see sysutils/fsc) and
    continues to improve outside of the ports tree. Some interesting work
    is being done in the area of services control, system boot, and a
    simplification of the process. Stay tuned for more information in
    status reports that follow.



-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org

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From dru.lavigne at att.net  Mon Jan 14 13:06:26 2013
From: dru.lavigne at att.net (Dru Lavigne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:06:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <1358186727.16594.YahooMailClassic@web184906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1358186786.57082.YahooMailClassic@web184904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


> ? ? was just reading the quarterly
> report for freebsd and spotted this
> ? ? gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet? 
> ? ? 
> ? ? FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
> 


We played with this tool at my FreeBSD class last month. It
works as advertised in a "just works" sort of way. It's on
my todo list to add to the PC-BSD handbook as it's included
in the default install of PC-BSD/TrueOS.
 
Cheers,
 
Dru
 
 



From mikel.king at olivent.com  Mon Jan 14 13:24:49 2013
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:24:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
References: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <002DCC26-2F77-423B-B3ED-C82649FAD09B@olivent.com>


On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> was just reading the quarterly report for freebsd and spotted this gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
> 
> FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
> 
>    Contact: Tom Rhodes <trhodes at FreeBSD.org>
> 
>    FSC has been moved into the ports system (see sysutils/fsc) and
>    continues to improve outside of the ports tree. Some interesting work
>    is being done in the area of services control, system boot, and a
>    simplification of the process. Stay tuned for more information in
>    status reports that follow.
> 
> 
> 
> -pete
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> www.nomadlogic.org
Very interesting. Thanks for bubbling this up. I shall have to give it a go.

m

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From spork at bway.net  Mon Jan 14 13:43:10 2013
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:43:10 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
References: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <C9975807-2C94-48C6-A12C-39E18DBD24F0@bway.net>

On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Pete Wright wrote:

> was just reading the quarterly report for freebsd and spotted this gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
> 
> FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
> 
>    Contact: Tom Rhodes <trhodes at FreeBSD.org>
> 
>    FSC has been moved into the ports system (see sysutils/fsc) and
>    continues to improve outside of the ports tree. Some interesting work
>    is being done in the area of services control, system boot, and a
>    simplification of the process. Stay tuned for more information in
>    status reports that follow.

Has anyone else found more docs besides this?

https://vcs.in-berlin.de/schrank21_fscd/home

C

> 
> -pete
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> www.nomadlogic.org
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Mon Jan 14 13:57:04 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:57:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
References: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <1358189883-9555334.23275677.fr0EIv3mk013258@rs149.luxsci.com>

Thanks for the shout on that,

On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Pete Wright wrote:

> was just reading the quarterly report for freebsd and spotted this gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
> 
> FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
> 
>    Contact: Tom Rhodes <trhodes at FreeBSD.org>
> 
>    FSC has been moved into the ports system (see sysutils/fsc) and
>    continues to improve outside of the ports tree. Some interesting work
>    is being done in the area of services control, system boot, and a
>    simplification of the process. Stay tuned for more information in
>    status reports that follow.
> 
> 
> 
> -pete

URL, for the record:
http://people.freebsd.org/~trhodes/fsc/

Wow- ok, so fundamental changes in play list is now getting pretty large!
(Pretty much everything we all know by muscle-memory :)

Fast times.

Rocket-
.ike





From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 14 14:15:25 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:15:25 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <1358189883-9555334.23275677.fr0EIv3mk013258@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <50F44826.6070109@nomadlogic.org>
 <1358189883-9555334.23275677.fr0EIv3mk013258@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <50F4594D.5000500@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/14/13 10:57, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> Thanks for the shout on that,
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 1:02 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
>
>> was just reading the quarterly report for freebsd and spotted this gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
>>
>> FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
>>
>>     Contact: Tom Rhodes<trhodes at FreeBSD.org>
>>
>>     FSC has been moved into the ports system (see sysutils/fsc) and
>>     continues to improve outside of the ports tree. Some interesting work
>>     is being done in the area of services control, system boot, and a
>>     simplification of the process. Stay tuned for more information in
>>     status reports that follow.
>>
>>
>>
>> -pete
> URL, for the record:
> http://people.freebsd.org/~trhodes/fsc/
>
> Wow- ok, so fundamental changes in play list is now getting pretty large!
> (Pretty much everything we all know by muscle-memory :)
>
> Fast times.
yea no doubt - i really have no idea how i feel about this but am eager 
to give it a spin on a VM this week time permitting.  this may actually 
dovetail nicely with my work to transition away from SysV init scripts 
on gnu/linux boxes and move over to systemd(1).  i'd like to see if fsc 
supports some of the nice features that systemd will eventually provide, 
specifically process babysitting...


-p

(1) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/systemd
     http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From skreuzer at exit2shell.com  Mon Jan 14 17:58:30 2013
From: skreuzer at exit2shell.com (Steven Kreuzer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:58:30 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] a clarification about the csup/CVS announcement
In-Reply-To: <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
References: <CAF6rxgmxb2MbzHduEZ9bJuMaVpTfmLA0EzX139rrvM1Eb_eikQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130110191446.302bc898@ivory.wynn.com> <50EF5B82.9050902@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130110230637.7629fbad@ivory.wynn.com>
 <20130111041154.GF1358@glenbarber.us>
 <20130111163636.0a52dd7c@ivory.wynn.com> <50F09CFA.4030002@nomadlogic.org>
 <20130112014826.445e88b8@ivory.wynn.com>
Message-ID: <4D38FBAB-BFB8-4F44-B102-BEA0657F04A5@exit2shell.com>


On Jan 12, 2013, at 1:48 AM, Brett Wynkoop <nycbug at wynn.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:15:06 -0800
> Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 01/11/13 13:36, Brett Wynkoop wrote:
>>> 
>>> The point is that someone with only 4GB of space has just enough
>>> room to rebuild world and rebuild kernel, but not enough room for
>>> ports as well.
>> we are talking about ~50MB of data fwiw to install svn and it's 
>> dependency tree.  obviously a non-trivial amount of disk space (and a 
>> good reason not to include it in base) but not 100's of MB either.
>> imho 
>> - just use packages, it will make your life easier.
> 
> FreeBSD-10 ARM == no-packages

There is an experimental pkg-ng repo for ARM that you can use but it doesn't have every port

# echo 'PACKAGESITE: http://people.freebsd.org/~gonzo/arm/pkg/' > /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf
# pkg update

> 
> I am part of the group trying to get things functional on many of the
> current cheap arm boards.  I am doing more breaking of things than
> coding, but breaking things is important as well.

if you run into ports that you just can't get to compile on arm, add this to the ports Makefile
and open up a PR

.if ${ARCH} == "arm"
BROKEN=     Does not compile on arm
.endif


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 14 23:14:21 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:14:21 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [OT[ dtrace for linux
Message-ID: <50F4D79D.1000605@nomadlogic.org>

obviously OT - but having dtrace available openly on freebsd is still a 
big win i reckon:

https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/entry/announcement_dtrace_for_oracle_linux

"Today we are announcing the general availability of*DTrace for Oracle 
Linux*. It is available todownload from ULN 
<https://linux.oracle.com/pls/apex/f?p=101:3>for Oracle Linux Support 
customers."

i don't pay for support for orable linux but i'm guessing they are 
charging for a binary blob that gets plopped into a kernel...

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org

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From akosela at andykosela.com  Tue Jan 15 02:11:21 2013
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:11:21 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <1358186786.57082.YahooMailClassic@web184904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1358186727.16594.YahooMailClassic@web184906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <1358186786.57082.YahooMailClassic@web184904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALMnNGhgazEVQjxZb0fP=M=XwTXGP+78kKeO7eqM+_H7jxSUiQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Dru Lavigne <dru.lavigne at att.net> wrote:
>
>>     was just reading the quarterly
>> report for freebsd and spotted this
>>     gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
>>
>>     FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
>>
>
>
> We played with this tool at my FreeBSD class last month. It
> works as advertised in a "just works" sort of way. It's on
> my todo list to add to the PC-BSD handbook as it's included
> in the default install of PC-BSD/TrueOS.

IMHO it should be added to the FreeBSD base too.  This utility
somewhat reminds me of the reincarnation daemon from MINIX.  It's
really neat.

--Andy


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Jan 15 11:44:33 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:44:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>

All
 I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate
reality.

http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure

-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Tue Jan 15 13:10:08 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:10:08 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:44:33AM -0500, Mark Saad wrote:
> All
> ?I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate reality.
> 
> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure

I would keep in mind that phoronix, in the Linux community as well as
others, has a relatively poor reputation.  

Also, that with a user name like BSD sucks and dies, the poster probably
has some personal axe to grind.

There is (was?) a thread on the FreeBSD forums. Regrettably, some posters
are reacting by just insulting Linux--penguin feces, while somewhat
amusing, seems a bit like, Oh yeah?  Well, you're a bigger doody head. 

Just my opinion, of course, but the fact that both BSD and Linux, when
combined, are only a very small percentage when compared to Windows and
Apple users, and still have to try and find fault with each other, is
somewhat of a time waster. 

Of course, try to say that Ubuntu is a great distribution on a Fedora Linux
forum--even between the various distributions, there seems to be a great
deal of ill-will.  My own opinion is that the best way to deal with
something like this is not respond in kind, or even maturely in kind (that
is, penguin feces is a more mature insult than BSD sucks and dies, but
still an insult).

Again, just my opinion, and I'll freely admit I'm a wimp who likes to avoid
conflict, but it seems to me, looking at it, that getting into the insult
fest, even mildly, makes all participants look bad.



-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

Buffy: You know, you could have brought that up to us
before we did it.
Giles: I did! I said there could be dire consequences.
Buffy: Yes, but you say that about chewing too fast.


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Tue Jan 15 13:15:51 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:15:51 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50F59CD7.8040903@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/15/13 08:44, Mark Saad wrote:
> All
>  I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate 
> reality.
>
> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure
>

lol i saw PHK tweet this thread a week or so ago - i'm glad to see it's 
gone up to 11 since then :)

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter =>  @nomadlogicLA




From akosela at andykosela.com  Tue Jan 15 15:07:37 2013
From: akosela at andykosela.com (Andy Kosela)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:07:37 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Scott Robbins <scottro at nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:44:33AM -0500, Mark Saad wrote:
>> All
>>  I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate reality.
>>
>> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure
>
> I would keep in mind that phoronix, in the Linux community as well as
> others, has a relatively poor reputation.
>
> Also, that with a user name like BSD sucks and dies, the poster probably
> has some personal axe to grind.
>
> There is (was?) a thread on the FreeBSD forums. Regrettably, some posters
> are reacting by just insulting Linux--penguin feces, while somewhat
> amusing, seems a bit like, Oh yeah?  Well, you're a bigger doody head.
>
> Just my opinion, of course, but the fact that both BSD and Linux, when
> combined, are only a very small percentage when compared to Windows and
> Apple users, and still have to try and find fault with each other, is
> somewhat of a time waster.
>
> Of course, try to say that Ubuntu is a great distribution on a Fedora Linux
> forum--even between the various distributions, there seems to be a great
> deal of ill-will.  My own opinion is that the best way to deal with
> something like this is not respond in kind, or even maturely in kind (that
> is, penguin feces is a more mature insult than BSD sucks and dies, but
> still an insult).
>
> Again, just my opinion, and I'll freely admit I'm a wimp who likes to avoid
> conflict, but it seems to me, looking at it, that getting into the insult
> fest, even mildly, makes all participants look bad.

Let's all go back to "my Commodore is better than your Atari"
arguments from the good ol days.  :)

I can understand criticism backed up by solid facts and research, but
this thread from the start is so full of childish insults, errors and
fallacies that it only could've been conceived in the mind of 17 years
old wannabe teenager hacker...

--Andy


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Jan 15 16:03:42 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:03:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
 <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NamnvpmEBzAR4U=gBPe8EnwsAG+GH4vyFHa-==s6aaqWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Like I said , lost in the internet ; PHK is in my servers hacking my
jails!!!!

Happy Tuesday .


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Andy Kosela <akosela at andykosela.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Scott Robbins <scottro at nyc.rr.com>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 11:44:33AM -0500, Mark Saad wrote:
> >> All
> >>  I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate
> reality.
> >>
> >>
> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure
> >
> > I would keep in mind that phoronix, in the Linux community as well as
> > others, has a relatively poor reputation.
> >
> > Also, that with a user name like BSD sucks and dies, the poster probably
> > has some personal axe to grind.
> >
> > There is (was?) a thread on the FreeBSD forums. Regrettably, some posters
> > are reacting by just insulting Linux--penguin feces, while somewhat
> > amusing, seems a bit like, Oh yeah?  Well, you're a bigger doody head.
> >
> > Just my opinion, of course, but the fact that both BSD and Linux, when
> > combined, are only a very small percentage when compared to Windows and
> > Apple users, and still have to try and find fault with each other, is
> > somewhat of a time waster.
> >
> > Of course, try to say that Ubuntu is a great distribution on a Fedora
> Linux
> > forum--even between the various distributions, there seems to be a great
> > deal of ill-will.  My own opinion is that the best way to deal with
> > something like this is not respond in kind, or even maturely in kind
> (that
> > is, penguin feces is a more mature insult than BSD sucks and dies, but
> > still an insult).
> >
> > Again, just my opinion, and I'll freely admit I'm a wimp who likes to
> avoid
> > conflict, but it seems to me, looking at it, that getting into the insult
> > fest, even mildly, makes all participants look bad.
>
> Let's all go back to "my Commodore is better than your Atari"
> arguments from the good ol days.  :)
>
> I can understand criticism backed up by solid facts and research, but
> this thread from the start is so full of childish insults, errors and
> fallacies that it only could've been conceived in the mind of 17 years
> old wannabe teenager hacker...
>
> --Andy
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
mark saad | nonesuch at longcount.org
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Tue Jan 15 16:16:34 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:16:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Freebsd service controll
In-Reply-To: <CALMnNGhgazEVQjxZb0fP=M=XwTXGP+78kKeO7eqM+_H7jxSUiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1358186727.16594.YahooMailClassic@web184906.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <1358186786.57082.YahooMailClassic@web184904.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
 <CALMnNGhgazEVQjxZb0fP=M=XwTXGP+78kKeO7eqM+_H7jxSUiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1358284622-1852163.29689863.fr0FLGZAW008315@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:11 AM, Andy Kosela wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Dru Lavigne <dru.lavigne at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>>>    was just reading the quarterly
>>> report for freebsd and spotted this
>>>    gem - has anyone taken a poke at this yet?
>>> 
>>>    FreeBSD Services Control (fsc)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We played with this tool at my FreeBSD class last month. It
>> works as advertised in a "just works" sort of way. It's on
>> my todo list to add to the PC-BSD handbook as it's included
>> in the default install of PC-BSD/TrueOS.
> 
> IMHO it should be added to the FreeBSD base too.  This utility
> somewhat reminds me of the reincarnation daemon from MINIX.  It's
> really neat.
> 
> --Andy

I'm suspicious already, just looked closer and downloaded it,
http://people.freebsd.org/~trhodes/fsc/

> To remove a service either: 
o kill -9 $SERVICE; 
> o fscadm disable $SERVICE. 

Not getting me off on the right foot to like this thing, time to play with it and see what it's about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4

Rocket-
.ike





From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Tue Jan 15 16:21:05 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:21:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NamnvpmEBzAR4U=gBPe8EnwsAG+GH4vyFHa-==s6aaqWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
 <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NamnvpmEBzAR4U=gBPe8EnwsAG+GH4vyFHa-==s6aaqWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1358284922-4302608.44168365.fr0FLL6F8015212@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Mark Saad wrote:

> Like I said , lost in the internet ; PHK is in my servers hacking my jails!!!!

I'd be honored!  :P  PHK would certainly be a cut above most of the folks hacking on various projects in my jails.

Best,
.ike





From ahpook at verizon.net  Tue Jan 15 13:22:55 2013
From: ahpook at verizon.net (Ah Pook)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:22:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <50F59CD7.8040903@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <50F59CD7.8040903@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <50F59E7F.9060100@verizon.net>

On 01/15/2013 01:15 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
> On 01/15/13 08:44, Mark Saad wrote:
>> All
>>  I happened on this fun to read pile of trash , fun to read alternate
>> reality.
>>
>> http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?76481-FreeBSD-jails-are-insecure
>
> lol i saw PHK tweet this thread a week or so ago - i'm glad to see it's
> gone up to 11 since then :)

Heh, yeah.  Ahh, moronix.  It's funny if you read it in the RED INK 
FLOWS LIKE A RIVER OF BLOOD voice.



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Jan 15 16:55:12 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:55:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <1358284922-4302608.44168365.fr0FLL6F8015212@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
 <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NamnvpmEBzAR4U=gBPe8EnwsAG+GH4vyFHa-==s6aaqWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1358284922-4302608.44168365.fr0FLL6F8015212@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <50F5D040.8030300@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/15/13 16:21, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Mark Saad wrote:
>
>> Like I said , lost in the internet ; PHK is in my servers hacking my jails!!!!
>
> I'd be honored!  :P  PHK would certainly be a cut above most of the folks hacking on various projects in my jails.

Same here Ike.

Let's not make it a habit of posting that garbage in the future.  The 
fact that PHK replied and tweeted about it makes it humorous, but 
outside of that, it's utter FUD.

g



From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Jan 15 18:31:24 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:31:24 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OT: Lost in the internet
In-Reply-To: <50F5D040.8030300@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZRF-jK1dM6OkAW1oay_URSym-J2x3GvHd0s_HOHY8zWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130115181008.GB14608@scott1.scottro.net>
 <CALMnNGi_43O=w0vPmvGebjV5a5=2fM462CDkba15j4uQY=sKHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NamnvpmEBzAR4U=gBPe8EnwsAG+GH4vyFHa-==s6aaqWQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1358284922-4302608.44168365.fr0FLL6F8015212@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <50F5D040.8030300@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NbqWWHRqu1gjQS2JBVWTL2K0z0kM43gKg14cYRzHOAHvA@mail.gmail.com>

Well George, PHK's replies  made it BSD related :)


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:55 PM, George Rosamond <
george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> On 01/15/13 16:21, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
>> On Jan 15, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Mark Saad wrote:
>>
>>  Like I said , lost in the internet ; PHK is in my servers hacking my
>>> jails!!!!
>>>
>>
>> I'd be honored!  :P  PHK would certainly be a cut above most of the folks
>> hacking on various projects in my jails.
>>
>
> Same here Ike.
>
> Let's not make it a habit of posting that garbage in the future.  The fact
> that PHK replied and tweeted about it makes it humorous, but outside of
> that, it's utter FUD.
>
>
> g
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>



-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From nikolai at fetissov.org  Thu Jan 17 15:17:55 2013
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (Nikolai Fetissov)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:17:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New home for NYC*BUG meeting audio
Message-ID: <5147e0b5f50a358b186bf07f1173d3e0.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>

Folks,

NYC*BUG meeting audio is now hosted at NYC*BUG site.
All the existing recordings have been copied and I will
not put new ones on my personal site - everything will
go to one proper place under nycbug.org

No separate announcements will be sent, audio files
will just be linked on the event(s) page like this
one for the last meeting http://www.nycbug.org/?action=home&id=10332

Thanks go to Okan for making this happen.

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan 17 15:47:53 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:47:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] New home for NYC*BUG meeting audio
In-Reply-To: <5147e0b5f50a358b186bf07f1173d3e0.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
References: <5147e0b5f50a358b186bf07f1173d3e0.squirrel@www.geekisp.com>
Message-ID: <50F86379.7010702@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/17/13 15:17, Nikolai Fetissov wrote:
> Folks,
>
> NYC*BUG meeting audio is now hosted at NYC*BUG site.
> All the existing recordings have been copied and I will
> not put new ones on my personal site - everything will
> go to one proper place under nycbug.org
>
> No separate announcements will be sent, audio files
> will just be linked on the event(s) page like this
> one for the last meeting http://www.nycbug.org/?action=home&id=10332
>
> Thanks go to Okan for making this happen.
>

And huge thanks to Nikolai for his consistency in dealing with the audio 
for so many years.

g



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Jan 19 18:50:49 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:50:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: 20 significant events in NetBSD history?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.02.1301191737390.21625@t1.m.reedmedia.net>
References: <alpine.NEB.2.02.1301191737390.21625@t1.m.reedmedia.net>
Message-ID: <50FB3159.8070202@ceetonetechnology.com>

This was posted on netbsd-advocacy... reposting for obvious reasons.

g



I plan to write an article celebrating NetBSD's 20th birthday by
summarizing 20 significant events in NetBSD's history.  Please help me
by suggesting any events that you think are noteworthy. You may email me
off-list.

(I have already done many interviews about NetBSD's early history and
have compiled a start of a list toward a longer work.
http://www.reedmedia.net/books/bsd-history/)

Thanks!

  Jeremy C. Reed

echo 'EhZ[h ^jjf0%%h[[Zc[Z_W$d[j%Xeeai%ZW[ced#]dk#f[d]k_d%' | \
  tr            '#-~'            '\-.-{'





From jkeen at verizon.net  Sun Jan 20 18:23:16 2013
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:23:16 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
Message-ID: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net>

If there is anyone on this list who is familiar with/has access to 
FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS, your help would be appreciated with a bug which 
has been reported in the Perl 5/CPAN module called POSIX.  A test in 
this module on that OS/filesystem which previously passed had begun to fail.

You can find the original test failure report here:

https://gist.github.com/6adc1d4586023dc40d7f

The bug tracker report is here:

https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116463

Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan


From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 07:30:27 2013
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:30:27 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
In-Reply-To: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net>
References: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1OaCqs6G3RUKEtPm=N1dUxrc5Cpfv3=drMHXDeO3kXWSg@mail.gmail.com>

James,


Are you just looking for other people to run the test and report results. I
can spin up a VM and do that. Do you just need it tested on a FreeBSD
kernel with ZFS support, or do you need /tmp (the only non /dev path I see
in the test) to be a ZFS partition?

Thanks,

Justin

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 6:23 PM, James E Keenan <jkeen at verizon.net> wrote:

> If there is anyone on this list who is familiar with/has access to FreeBSD
> 9.0 with ZFS, your help would be appreciated with a bug which has been
> reported in the Perl 5/CPAN module called POSIX.  A test in this module on
> that OS/filesystem which previously passed had begun to fail.
>
> You can find the original test failure report here:
>
> https://gist.github.com/**6adc1d4586023dc40d7f<https://gist.github.com/6adc1d4586023dc40d7f>
>
> The bug tracker report is here:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/**Ticket/Display.html?id=116463<https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116463>
>
> Thank you very much.
> Jim Keenan
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>
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From jkeen at verizon.net  Mon Jan 21 15:41:29 2013
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:41:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1358787603.3560.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
References: <mailman.3.1358787603.3560.talk@lists.nycbug.org>
Message-ID: <50FDA7F9.1000005@verizon.net>

On 1/21/13 12:00 PM, talk-request at lists.nycbug.org wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:30:27 -0500
> From: Justin Dearing<zippy1981 at gmail.com>
> To: talk<talk at lists.nycbug.org>
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
> Message-ID:
> 	<CABsCM1OaCqs6G3RUKEtPm=N1dUxrc5Cpfv3=drMHXDeO3kXWSg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> James,
>
>
> Are you just looking for other people to run the test and report results. I
> can spin up a VM and do that. Do you just need it tested on a FreeBSD
> kernel with ZFS support, or do you need /tmp (the only non /dev path I see
> in the test) to be a ZFS partition?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Justin
>

Thanks for your response, Justin.  I'm mainly acting just as a messenger 
here, passing along the test failure report.  So I can't precisely say 
what needs to be done.

However, it would probably be helpful if you were able to download the 
latest monthly development release of Perl 5, version 5.17.8, which you 
can obtain here: 
http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/A/AR/ARC/perl-5.17.8.tar.gz

After that, it's a fairly straightforward unpack/configure/build/test 
sequence:

tar xzvf perl-5.17.8.tar.gz
cd perl-5.17.8
sh ./Configure -des -Dusedevel
make
make test

That would run the full test suite, which on a contemporary laptop, 
would be 15-20 minutes configuration to finish.  If you just want to 
focus on this particular test failure, you would, instead of the last 
two steps, say:

make test_prep
cd t; ./perl harness -v ../ext/POSIX/t/sysconf.t; cd -

You could either mail me your test results or, better still, post them 
directly at either 
https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116463 or to the 
Perl 5 Porters mailing list/newsgroup, which can be reached, among other 
ways, at: news://nntp.perl.org:119/perl.perl5.porters

Feel free to write me off list if you prefer or if you want to be hooked 
up with people more knowledgeable than I about this issue.

Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan

> On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 6:23 PM, James E Keenan<jkeen at verizon.net>  wrote:
>
>> If there is anyone on this list who is familiar with/has access to FreeBSD
>> 9.0 with ZFS, your help would be appreciated with a bug which has been
>> reported in the Perl 5/CPAN module called POSIX.  A test in this module on
>> that OS/filesystem which previously passed had begun to fail.
>>
>> You can find the original test failure report here:
>>
>> https://gist.github.com/**6adc1d4586023dc40d7f<https://gist.github.com/6adc1d4586023dc40d7f>
>>
>> The bug tracker report is here:
>>
>> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/**Ticket/Display.html?id=116463<https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116463>
>>
>> Thank you very much.
>> Jim Keenan


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 21 19:17:17 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:17:17 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
In-Reply-To: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net>
References: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <50FDDA8D.9010805@nomadlogic.org>

On 1/20/13 3:23 PM, James E Keenan wrote:
> If there is anyone on this list who is familiar with/has access to 
> FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS, your help would be appreciated with a bug which 
> has been reported in the Perl 5/CPAN module called POSIX.  A test in 
> this module on that OS/filesystem which previously passed had begun to 
> fail.
>
> You can find the original test failure report here:
>
> https://gist.github.com/6adc1d4586023dc40d7f
>
> The bug tracker report is here:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116463
>


i have multiple machines running 9.1-RELEASE that are utilizing ZFS - i 
can give this a spin tomorrow when I get to work if that helps.

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
www.nomadlogic.org



From jkeen at verizon.net  Tue Jan 22 19:17:53 2013
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:17:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Bug in CPAN module on FreeBSD 9.0 with ZFS
In-Reply-To: <50FDDA8D.9010805@nomadlogic.org>
References: <50FC7C64.9020508@verizon.net> <50FDDA8D.9010805@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <50FF2C31.2040000@verizon.net>

On 1/21/13 7:17 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
> On 1/20/13 3:23 PM, James E Keenan wrote:

>
> i have multiple machines running 9.1-RELEASE that are utilizing ZFS - i
> can give this a spin tomorrow when I get to work if that helps.
>
> -pete
>

Pete++ for the report:
https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=116463#txn-1186033


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan 23 12:33:12 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac Levy (.ike))
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:33:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
Message-ID: <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing with a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.

Best,
.ike


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net>
> Subject: Re: svn - but smaller?
> Date: January 23, 2013 12:05:25 PM EST
> To: freebsd-stable at freebsd.org
> Cc: Mike Tancsa <mike at sentex.net>, Mike Leone <mike.leone at axialmarket.com>
> 
> One of my teammates and I were just doing a write up on this very issue,
> 
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Mike Tancsa wrote:
>> On 1/23/2013 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
>>> 
>>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not 
>>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
>>> 
>> Actually, if you build the port minus the NEON option, its as bad in
>> terms of dependencies.
> 
> --------
> THE UGLY
> 
> Source for SVN:         496M (+)
> Source for FreeBSD 9.1: 746M (actual)
> 
> (df output details below)
> 
> -------
> THE BAD
> 
> After 15+ years of FreeBSD use, I remember what a great thing cvsup was when it hit.
> However, SVN presents several problems for OS use (again):
> 
> 1) License.  Many of SVN's dependencies will never be available in the FreeBSD source.
> While this is totally OK for development, SVN is 3rd party software, this is unacceptable to force as 'the' respected path for OS source builds.
> 
> 2) Heft: cvsup/csup was excellent for 1 thing: grabbing a REL branch.  Perhaps grabbing STABLE or CURRENT.  Systems administrators could QA/test new branches on massive numbers of servers quickly and efficiently.
> 
> --------
> THE GOOD
> 
> We've just resolved this for ourselves, and are wrapping it in a clean sh script:
> (I'd love to know where we can send it for input when we're done?)
> 
> 40 lines of shell could get the jist of what users really need:
> 
> - Download the src using fetch(1)
>  fetch ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/9.1-RELEASE/src.txz
> - Extract the tarball (to /usr/src, or wherever).
>  tar -xf src.txz
> 
> We're hacking out some simple script add-ons out right now for ourselves, to make this more CVSUP like:
> + flag to keep source tarball somewhere (instead of merely un-tarring it in a pipe)
> + flag to un-tar source to a particular directory
> + flag to specify OS version
> + flag to specify RELEASE, STABLE, CURRENT
>  (if they exist, CURRENT may be tricky?)
> + define source server/mirror
> 
> + source config in /etc, (or rc.conf ?), if exists
> 
> --
> Nice-to-have extra features (some necessary for us):
> + define protocol (tricky), e.g. ftp/http/https/other
> + after unpacking, run against mtree (possibly kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources
>  + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
> + checksum tarball (possibly against checksums kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources
>  + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
> + flags to override/change tar options
> 
> ++ also nice to have, more cvsup features, (I need to read through man page again for a sanity check)
> 
> 
> --
> Regarding SVN:
> 
> I know the SVN change is a profound leap foreword in source management and collaboration, (I've carried many shops through CVS/SVN/GIT migrations as an SA).
> 
> Developing/hacking in the FreeBSD source is already simpler, though as an outsider, (no commit bit), the transition has been expectedly rough-edged :)
> 
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ronald Klop wrote:
>> I've read about this initiative.
>> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/
>> Maybe you can help there.
> 
> Aside from the heft/licence issues I noted above, it's a bit late to consider this, cvsup is going away:
> 
> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on Feburary 28th
> 
> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is deprecated, but doesn't have a definite end-date
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Frank Staals wrote:
>>> I'm kind of surprised for the need of this though. Why not simply use
>>> portsnap if you are not actively developing ports? 
>> 
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not 
>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
> 
> 
> For users/administrators, to merely fetch OS sources for a given branch, it goes against the grain of nearly every reason users use FreeBSD to say 'just use svn'.
> 
> Additionally, it's not been fun recently to 'just use portssnap', when the actual binary ports servers have gone through the recent security incident, (as well as all the changes).
> 
> I'm not meaning to be negative here, but this has slid pretty far away from the ideals that *BSD users care about.
> 
> Best,
> .ike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> # uncompressed canonical sources for svn (I believe I missed some dependencies of the dependencies)
> du -d 1 -h
> 5.5M	./apr-1.4.6
> 5.3M	./sqlite-amalgamation-3071300
> 13M	./libtool-2.4.2
> 79M	./perl-5.16.2
> 4.0M	./neon-0.29.6
> 66M	./Python-2.7.1
> 153M	./db-5.3.21
> 55M	./subversion-1.7.8
> 8.6M	./m4-1.4.16
> 3.0M	./expat-2.1.0
> 12M	./pkg-config-0.27.1
> 3.0M	./gdbm-1.10
> 67M	./gettext-0.18.1.1
> 21M	./libiconv-1.14
> 496M	.
> 
> ## FreeBSD 9.1 Source
> $ pwd ; du -d 1 -h
> /usr/src
> 3.2M	./bin
> 11M	./cddl
> 316M	./contrib
> 40M	./crypto
> 2.0M	./etc
> 3.7M	./games
> 5.9M	./gnu
> 1.1M	./include
> 484k	./kerberos5
> 31M	./lib
> 2.1M	./libexec
> 1.3M	./release
> 32k	./rescue
> 7.2M	./sbin
> 3.6M	./secure
> 39M	./share
> 200M	./sys
> 44M	./tools
> 13M	./usr.bin
> 18M	./usr.sbin
> 746M	.




From spork at bway.net  Wed Jan 23 12:43:41 2013
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:43:41 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
In-Reply-To: <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
 <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <45E6926E-6CCA-4B67-BF5A-41DB8D72DD58@bway.net>

On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing with a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.

Deja-vu?  This reminds me of cvsup+modula-3.

http://www.mavetju.org/mail/view_message.php?list=freebsd-current&id=209027

> Best,
> .ike
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net>
>> Subject: Re: svn - but smaller?
>> Date: January 23, 2013 12:05:25 PM EST
>> To: freebsd-stable at freebsd.org
>> Cc: Mike Tancsa <mike at sentex.net>, Mike Leone <mike.leone at axialmarket.com>
>> 
>> One of my teammates and I were just doing a write up on this very issue,
>> 
>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Mike Tancsa wrote:
>>> On 1/23/2013 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not 
>>>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
>>>> 
>>> Actually, if you build the port minus the NEON option, its as bad in
>>> terms of dependencies.
>> 
>> --------
>> THE UGLY
>> 
>> Source for SVN:         496M (+)
>> Source for FreeBSD 9.1: 746M (actual)
>> 
>> (df output details below)
>> 
>> -------
>> THE BAD
>> 
>> After 15+ years of FreeBSD use, I remember what a great thing cvsup was when it hit.
>> However, SVN presents several problems for OS use (again):
>> 
>> 1) License.  Many of SVN's dependencies will never be available in the FreeBSD source.
>> While this is totally OK for development, SVN is 3rd party software, this is unacceptable to force as 'the' respected path for OS source builds.
>> 
>> 2) Heft: cvsup/csup was excellent for 1 thing: grabbing a REL branch.  Perhaps grabbing STABLE or CURRENT.  Systems administrators could QA/test new branches on massive numbers of servers quickly and efficiently.
>> 
>> --------
>> THE GOOD
>> 
>> We've just resolved this for ourselves, and are wrapping it in a clean sh script:
>> (I'd love to know where we can send it for input when we're done?)
>> 
>> 40 lines of shell could get the jist of what users really need:
>> 
>> - Download the src using fetch(1)
>> fetch ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/9.1-RELEASE/src.txz
>> - Extract the tarball (to /usr/src, or wherever).
>> tar -xf src.txz
>> 
>> We're hacking out some simple script add-ons out right now for ourselves, to make this more CVSUP like:
>> + flag to keep source tarball somewhere (instead of merely un-tarring it in a pipe)
>> + flag to un-tar source to a particular directory
>> + flag to specify OS version
>> + flag to specify RELEASE, STABLE, CURRENT
>> (if they exist, CURRENT may be tricky?)
>> + define source server/mirror
>> 
>> + source config in /etc, (or rc.conf ?), if exists
>> 
>> --
>> Nice-to-have extra features (some necessary for us):
>> + define protocol (tricky), e.g. ftp/http/https/other
>> + after unpacking, run against mtree (possibly kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources
>> + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
>> + checksum tarball (possibly against checksums kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources
>> + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
>> + flags to override/change tar options
>> 
>> ++ also nice to have, more cvsup features, (I need to read through man page again for a sanity check)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Regarding SVN:
>> 
>> I know the SVN change is a profound leap foreword in source management and collaboration, (I've carried many shops through CVS/SVN/GIT migrations as an SA).
>> 
>> Developing/hacking in the FreeBSD source is already simpler, though as an outsider, (no commit bit), the transition has been expectedly rough-edged :)
>> 
>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ronald Klop wrote:
>>> I've read about this initiative.
>>> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/
>>> Maybe you can help there.
>> 
>> Aside from the heft/licence issues I noted above, it's a bit late to consider this, cvsup is going away:
>> 
>> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on Feburary 28th
>> 
>> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is deprecated, but doesn't have a definite end-date
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Frank Staals wrote:
>>>> I'm kind of surprised for the need of this though. Why not simply use
>>>> portsnap if you are not actively developing ports? 
>>> 
>> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
>>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not 
>>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
>> 
>> 
>> For users/administrators, to merely fetch OS sources for a given branch, it goes against the grain of nearly every reason users use FreeBSD to say 'just use svn'.
>> 
>> Additionally, it's not been fun recently to 'just use portssnap', when the actual binary ports servers have gone through the recent security incident, (as well as all the changes).
>> 
>> I'm not meaning to be negative here, but this has slid pretty far away from the ideals that *BSD users care about.
>> 
>> Best,
>> .ike
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> # uncompressed canonical sources for svn (I believe I missed some dependencies of the dependencies)
>> du -d 1 -h
>> 5.5M	./apr-1.4.6
>> 5.3M	./sqlite-amalgamation-3071300
>> 13M	./libtool-2.4.2
>> 79M	./perl-5.16.2
>> 4.0M	./neon-0.29.6
>> 66M	./Python-2.7.1
>> 153M	./db-5.3.21
>> 55M	./subversion-1.7.8
>> 8.6M	./m4-1.4.16
>> 3.0M	./expat-2.1.0
>> 12M	./pkg-config-0.27.1
>> 3.0M	./gdbm-1.10
>> 67M	./gettext-0.18.1.1
>> 21M	./libiconv-1.14
>> 496M	.
>> 
>> ## FreeBSD 9.1 Source
>> $ pwd ; du -d 1 -h
>> /usr/src
>> 3.2M	./bin
>> 11M	./cddl
>> 316M	./contrib
>> 40M	./crypto
>> 2.0M	./etc
>> 3.7M	./games
>> 5.9M	./gnu
>> 1.1M	./include
>> 484k	./kerberos5
>> 31M	./lib
>> 2.1M	./libexec
>> 1.3M	./release
>> 32k	./rescue
>> 7.2M	./sbin
>> 3.6M	./secure
>> 39M	./share
>> 200M	./sys
>> 44M	./tools
>> 13M	./usr.bin
>> 18M	./usr.sbin
>> 746M	.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 13:05:06 2013
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:05:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd:  Fwd: svn - but smaller?
In-Reply-To: <CABsCM1PcHaWCHhtZviXC-0ThOsUQX8TvfHUEYTKo3p2cR=mO4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
 <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <CABsCM1PcHaWCHhtZviXC-0ThOsUQX8TvfHUEYTKo3p2cR=mO4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1Mr4aa_Ntm85gK=GuT8BGtqXP9Oq_-LozjNo7X4V269Hw@mail.gmail.com>

Meant to send to everyone

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Justin Dearing <zippy1981 at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
To: Isaac Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net>


Hey,

Has FreeBSD evaluated Fossil as a SCM possibility? http://www.fossil-scm.org.
Its written by the author of SQLite and seems to be his "me too" version of
git/hg. I've not use it except for RO access to the .NET driver for SQLite.
The only reason I bring it up is because due to the license and size of the
code, that its something that could feasibly be included in FreeBSD proper.

Other than license, the one feature that impressed me about it was that the
fossil executable was an embedded web server that not only served as a
server for syncing source code, and providing a human readable view of the
source code in the browser (like hg), it had a full wiki and bug tracking
system.

Justin

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Isaac Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net>wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing with
> a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.
>
> Best,
> .ike
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net>
> > Subject: Re: svn - but smaller?
> > Date: January 23, 2013 12:05:25 PM EST
> > To: freebsd-stable at freebsd.org
> > Cc: Mike Tancsa <mike at sentex.net>, Mike Leone <
> mike.leone at axialmarket.com>
> >
> > One of my teammates and I were just doing a write up on this very issue,
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Mike Tancsa wrote:
> >> On 1/23/2013 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
> >>>
> >>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not
> >>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
> >>>
> >> Actually, if you build the port minus the NEON option, its as bad in
> >> terms of dependencies.
> >
> > --------
> > THE UGLY
> >
> > Source for SVN:         496M (+)
> > Source for FreeBSD 9.1: 746M (actual)
> >
> > (df output details below)
> >
> > -------
> > THE BAD
> >
> > After 15+ years of FreeBSD use, I remember what a great thing cvsup was
> when it hit.
> > However, SVN presents several problems for OS use (again):
> >
> > 1) License.  Many of SVN's dependencies will never be available in the
> FreeBSD source.
> > While this is totally OK for development, SVN is 3rd party software,
> this is unacceptable to force as 'the' respected path for OS source builds.
> >
> > 2) Heft: cvsup/csup was excellent for 1 thing: grabbing a REL branch.
>  Perhaps grabbing STABLE or CURRENT.  Systems administrators could QA/test
> new branches on massive numbers of servers quickly and efficiently.
> >
> > --------
> > THE GOOD
> >
> > We've just resolved this for ourselves, and are wrapping it in a clean
> sh script:
> > (I'd love to know where we can send it for input when we're done?)
> >
> > 40 lines of shell could get the jist of what users really need:
> >
> > - Download the src using fetch(1)
> >  fetch
> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/9.1-RELEASE/src.txz
> > - Extract the tarball (to /usr/src, or wherever).
> >  tar -xf src.txz
> >
> > We're hacking out some simple script add-ons out right now for
> ourselves, to make this more CVSUP like:
> > + flag to keep source tarball somewhere (instead of merely un-tarring it
> in a pipe)
> > + flag to un-tar source to a particular directory
> > + flag to specify OS version
> > + flag to specify RELEASE, STABLE, CURRENT
> >  (if they exist, CURRENT may be tricky?)
> > + define source server/mirror
> >
> > + source config in /etc, (or rc.conf ?), if exists
> >
> > --
> > Nice-to-have extra features (some necessary for us):
> > + define protocol (tricky), e.g. ftp/http/https/other
> > + after unpacking, run against mtree (possibly kept on separate server
> or locally) to validate sources
> >  + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
> > + checksum tarball (possibly against checksums kept on separate server
> or locally) to validate sources
> >  + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist
> > + flags to override/change tar options
> >
> > ++ also nice to have, more cvsup features, (I need to read through man
> page again for a sanity check)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regarding SVN:
> >
> > I know the SVN change is a profound leap foreword in source management
> and collaboration, (I've carried many shops through CVS/SVN/GIT migrations
> as an SA).
> >
> > Developing/hacking in the FreeBSD source is already simpler, though as
> an outsider, (no commit bit), the transition has been expectedly
> rough-edged :)
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ronald Klop wrote:
> >> I've read about this initiative.
> >> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/
> >> Maybe you can help there.
> >
> > Aside from the heft/licence issues I noted above, it's a bit late to
> consider this, cvsup is going away:
> >
> > - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on
> Feburary 28th
> >
> > - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is deprecated, but doesn't have a
> definite end-date
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Frank Staals wrote:
> >>> I'm kind of surprised for the need of this though. Why not simply use
> >>> portsnap if you are not actively developing ports?
> >>
> > On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:
> >> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not
> >> feasible for me, as described in the original post.
> >
> >
> > For users/administrators, to merely fetch OS sources for a given branch,
> it goes against the grain of nearly every reason users use FreeBSD to say
> 'just use svn'.
> >
> > Additionally, it's not been fun recently to 'just use portssnap', when
> the actual binary ports servers have gone through the recent security
> incident, (as well as all the changes).
> >
> > I'm not meaning to be negative here, but this has slid pretty far away
> from the ideals that *BSD users care about.
> >
> > Best,
> > .ike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > # uncompressed canonical sources for svn (I believe I missed some
> dependencies of the dependencies)
> > du -d 1 -h
> > 5.5M  ./apr-1.4.6
> > 5.3M  ./sqlite-amalgamation-3071300
> > 13M   ./libtool-2.4.2
> > 79M   ./perl-5.16.2
> > 4.0M  ./neon-0.29.6
> > 66M   ./Python-2.7.1
> > 153M  ./db-5.3.21
> > 55M   ./subversion-1.7.8
> > 8.6M  ./m4-1.4.16
> > 3.0M  ./expat-2.1.0
> > 12M   ./pkg-config-0.27.1
> > 3.0M  ./gdbm-1.10
> > 67M   ./gettext-0.18.1.1
> > 21M   ./libiconv-1.14
> > 496M  .
> >
> > ## FreeBSD 9.1 Source
> > $ pwd ; du -d 1 -h
> > /usr/src
> > 3.2M  ./bin
> > 11M   ./cddl
> > 316M  ./contrib
> > 40M   ./crypto
> > 2.0M  ./etc
> > 3.7M  ./games
> > 5.9M  ./gnu
> > 1.1M  ./include
> > 484k  ./kerberos5
> > 31M   ./lib
> > 2.1M  ./libexec
> > 1.3M  ./release
> > 32k   ./rescue
> > 7.2M  ./sbin
> > 3.6M  ./secure
> > 39M   ./share
> > 200M  ./sys
> > 44M   ./tools
> > 13M   ./usr.bin
> > 18M   ./usr.sbin
> > 746M  .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan 23 13:06:02 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:06:02 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
In-Reply-To: <45E6926E-6CCA-4B67-BF5A-41DB8D72DD58@bway.net>
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
 <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <45E6926E-6CCA-4B67-BF5A-41DB8D72DD58@bway.net>
Message-ID: <1358964423-2618415.06586812.fr0NI63vF010750@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:43 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
> Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing with a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.
> 
> Deja-vu?  This reminds me of cvsup+modula-3.
> 
> http://www.mavetju.org/mail/view_message.php?list=freebsd-current&id=209027

Spot on, Spork.

Best,
.ike





From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 13:09:55 2013
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:09:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
In-Reply-To: <45E6926E-6CCA-4B67-BF5A-41DB8D72DD58@bway.net>
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
 <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <45E6926E-6CCA-4B67-BF5A-41DB8D72DD58@bway.net>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1NC_-xB7=KL+NRPv3NqysYRXFrFKdKr=vrZgaoOUQmJRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:

> On Jan 23, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing
> with a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.
>
> Deja-vu?  This reminds me of cvsup+modula-3.
>

All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan 23 13:14:30 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:14:30 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd:  Fwd: svn - but smaller?
In-Reply-To: <CABsCM1Mr4aa_Ntm85gK=GuT8BGtqXP9Oq_-LozjNo7X4V269Hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FCE9C67D-253E-484F-95AD-ED5A68D299D2@blackskyresearch.net>
 <1358962442-3823688.28245654.fr0NHXB3n014208@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <CABsCM1PcHaWCHhtZviXC-0ThOsUQX8TvfHUEYTKo3p2cR=mO4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABsCM1Mr4aa_Ntm85gK=GuT8BGtqXP9Oq_-LozjNo7X4V269Hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1358964902-7914671.3964141.fr0NIEUpx023299@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Jan 23, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Justin Dearing wrote:
> Meant to send to everyone
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Justin Dearing <zippy1981 at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?
> To: Isaac Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net>
> 
> 
> Hey,
> 
> Has FreeBSD evaluated Fossil as a SCM possibility? http://www.fossil-scm.org. Its written by the author of SQLite and seems to be his "me too" version of git/hg. I've not use it except for RO access to the .NET driver for SQLite. The only reason I bring it up is because due to the license and size of the code, that its something that could feasibly be included in FreeBSD proper.
> 
> Other than license, the one feature that impressed me about it was that the fossil executable was an embedded web server that not only served as a server for syncing source code, and providing a human readable view of the source code in the browser (like hg), it had a full wiki and bug tracking system.
> 
> Justin

This thread, is merely about use and administration, which is currently fundamentally compromised with all the changes afoot.

Fossil is interesting, but the SCM discussion is *way* out of the scope of my thread, (and was decided several years ago by the FreeBSD developers).  Apparently, SVN was deemed an appropriately modern, stable, and accessible tool- which works well with the FreeBSD workflow and release process.

I'm not saying I don't care, (Fossil is cool), but development tools are a developer choice- and the developers have already made this move.  (Opening this can of worms, creates suburbs of bikesheds...)

Best,
.ike





From mikel.king at olivent.com  Sat Jan 26 08:50:52 2013
From: mikel.king at olivent.com (Mikel King)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:50:52 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] =?windows-1252?q?uncyclopedia=85_=3B-S?=
Message-ID: <93347306-83B6-4AA5-A8D5-DEFD19167417@olivent.com>

stumbled upon this & thought it might brighten you Saturday?

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/FreeBSD



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Jan 27 14:57:31 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac Levy (.ike))
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:57:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
	Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
Message-ID: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the bar' topic:
"Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating System all the sudden?"

I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:

  https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview

Please feel to make edits (esp. if you are a committer and know something I don't!), or email me with corrections and I'll put them in!

Best,
.ike





From spork at bway.net  Sun Jan 27 15:29:33 2013
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:29:33 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
	Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <1FCB7F5D-7BEE-4B3E-8A18-4A787A6C4973@bway.net>

On Jan 27, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the bar' topic:
> "Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating System all the sudden?"
> 
> I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:
> 
>  https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview
> 
> Please feel to make edits (esp. if you are a committer and know something I don't!), or email me with corrections and I'll put them in!

OT slightly, but the article linked at the end is great:

http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2349257

And then you get to the comments?

"Yawn, I can't wait till these type of people retire. I've only been alive 2/3 of the time he's been programming but the 'chaos' is what makes programming fun. "

On the bright side, people like that make sure DevOps Borat has material.

https://twitter.com/DEVOPS_BORAT

"Hard part in devops is make money from wheel after you are reinvent it."

> Best,
> .ike
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Jan 27 15:37:59 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:37:59 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
 Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20130127203759.GA6460@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 02:57:31PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the bar' topic:
> "Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating System all the sudden?"
> 
> I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:
> 
>   https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview

I'm going to mention one thing that I ran into when first using sv
checkout.  I believe it's obvious to those familiar with svn, but not
necessarily to those of us who don't use it.

If doing svn co whatever /usr/src, one should first rm -rf /usr/src if it
exists.  That is, if you do a basic install, include /usr/src, then do svn
co, it may cause problems.  


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

Xander: What's going on here? People are going all Felicity with 
their hair. 



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Sun Jan 27 17:32:29 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:32:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
 Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <20130127203759.GA6460@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <20130127203759.GA6460@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <20130127223229.GP1423@glenbarber.us>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 03:37:59PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 02:57:31PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the bar' topic:
> > "Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating System all the sudden?"
> > 
> > I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:
> > 
> >   https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview
> 
> I'm going to mention one thing that I ran into when first using sv
> checkout.  I believe it's obvious to those familiar with svn, but not
> necessarily to those of us who don't use it.
> 
> If doing svn co whatever /usr/src, one should first rm -rf /usr/src if it
> exists.  That is, if you do a basic install, include /usr/src, then do svn
> co, it may cause problems.  
> 

http://www.FreeBSD.org/handbook/svn.html states:

Warning: If the local directory already exists but was not created by
svn, rename or delete it before the checkout. Checkout over an existing
non-svn directory can cause conflicts between the existing files and
those brought in from the repository.

Glen

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From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Sun Jan 27 17:51:58 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:51:58 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
 Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20130127225158.GQ1423@glenbarber.us>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 02:57:31PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the
> bar' topic:
> "Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating
> System all the sudden?"
> 
> I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm
> trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:
> 
>   https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview
> 
> Please feel to make edits (esp. if you are a committer and know
> something I don't!), or email me with corrections and I'll put them
> in!
> 

I do have a comment about the "Why is this a big deal?" section.

Why is changing the primary source control software such a big deal?
Truthfully, I do not know the one-size-fits-all answer.  I wish it was
not, however, because it is consuming far too many cycles and far too
much time for something that is inevitable.

The warning signs have been there for years.  All FreeBSD src/ commits
go into subversion since its inception.  The availability of the changes
through cvs/cvsup/csup happens as a result of a svn->cvs exporter.

And therein, in my opinion, is what is making this such a big deal.  The
exporter has run for far too long.  It is buggy at best.  It often
crashes when files are replaced.  Most importantly, and this is the part
that bothers me so much about this ongoing topic, it is not secure.

The way I see it, speaking "unofficially", the cvs exporter was provided
as a service to provide time for users to convert their systems to the
new source control system, or to choose an alternative way to obtain the
sources (freebsd-update(8), for example).

This service was far from free (as in time).  Taking into account the
aforementioned crashes, in addition to maintenance, keeping two methods
for obtaining the src/ tree available is expensive.  Additionally, when
a RELENG_N branch is created, manual intervention is needed on the cvs
side.  It is extremely costly.

Now, consider any other software project.  If "foo" decides to switch
from cvs to svn, or cvs to git, or git to svn, or whatever, I can
guarantee two things:

 1.) They will not attempt to put in the effort to make the "old
   system" available.
 2.) There very likely would not be as much talk about the topic as
   there has been for FreeBSD changing source control software.

So, having said all that, here is why I think this is such a big, time
consuming topic:  Until recently, the ports/ and doc/ repositories were
still developed within CVS.  With the cvs exporter for src/, users had
no real reason to switch.

Not moving ports/ and doc/ from cvs to svn sooner, in my opinion, is the
only mistake FreeBSD made.  But again, the warning signs were there all
along.

Glen

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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Jan 27 18:25:29 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:25:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
	Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <20130127225158.GQ1423@glenbarber.us>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <20130127225158.GQ1423@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <1359329162-1994236.5580628.fr0RNPUGr003018@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:51 PM, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 02:57:31PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> To continue to weed through all the noise, on the hot 'at the
>> bar' topic:
>> "Wny is my tool for src fetching, nearly as big as my base Operating
>> System all the sudden?"
>> 
>> I've posted what I can glean as the current state of things, I'm
>> trying to centralize my notes on this topic, here:
>> 
>>  https://wiki.freebsd.org/UsersFetchingSource#preview
>> 
>> Please feel to make edits (esp. if you are a committer and know
>> something I don't!), or email me with corrections and I'll put them
>> in!
>> 
> 
> I do have a comment about the "Why is this a big deal?" section.
> 
> Why is changing the primary source control software such a big deal?
> Truthfully, I do not know the one-size-fits-all answer.  I wish it was
> not, however, because it is consuming far too many cycles and far too
> much time for something that is inevitable.

I just added additional commentary inspired by your post here,

> The warning signs have been there for years.  All FreeBSD src/ commits
> go into subversion since its inception.  The availability of the changes
> through cvs/cvsup/csup happens as a result of a svn->cvs exporter.
> 
> And therein, in my opinion, is what is making this such a big deal.  The
> exporter has run for far too long.  It is buggy at best.  It often
> crashes when files are replaced.  

Thanks for this peek behind the curtain, this makes sense-

> Most importantly, and this is the part
> that bothers me so much about this ongoing topic, it is not secure.

This is game-changing for my attitude.  Neglected systems are dangerous systems.

> 
> The way I see it, speaking "unofficially", the cvs exporter was provided
> as a service to provide time for users to convert their systems to the
> new source control system, or to choose an alternative way to obtain the
> sources (freebsd-update(8), for example).
> 
> This service was far from free (as in time).  Taking into account the
> aforementioned crashes, in addition to maintenance, keeping two methods
> for obtaining the src/ tree available is expensive.  Additionally, when
> a RELENG_N branch is created, manual intervention is needed on the cvs
> side.  It is extremely costly.

As an admin, I can absolutely appreciate the cost of "just another service".

> Now, consider any other software project.  
> If "foo" decides to switch
> from cvs to svn, or cvs to git, or git to svn, or whatever, I can
> guarantee two things:
> 
> 1.) They will not attempt to put in the effort to make the "old
>   system" available.
> 2.) There very likely would not be as much talk about the topic as
>   there has been for FreeBSD changing source control software.

Both true, but not many other software projects are:
- 20+ years old
- have such stable systems
  (There are 4.x boxes still alive and kicking doing meaningful work)

These aspects set expectations for the speed of change, and communication/notice about changes.

Quite seriously, my head is churning on how to keep users (like NYC*BUG users) right out on the forefront for changes- so these problems aren't so disruptive. I'd rather have been aware just how serious cvs changes were back in 2010, (at least I'm upset with myself not to have been paying attention).
However, it seems like I'm not a special case- and that a *lot* of users haven't been prepared enough.

So here we are :)

> So, having said all that, here is why I think this is such a big, time
> consuming topic:  Until recently, the ports/ and doc/ repositories were
> still developed within CVS.  With the cvs exporter for src/, users had
> no real reason to switch.
> 
> Not moving ports/ and doc/ from cvs to svn sooner, in my opinion, is the
> only mistake FreeBSD made.  But again, the warning signs were there all
> along.
> 
> Glen

Change is not easy, I see what you've got on your hands there!

--
Is there any clear path that you know of to end-of-life the src cvsup?

It seems the work that popped up on stable@ this week is a real ray of hope to just seal it all off clean, a (a lightweight, in-base svn fetcher).

Anywhere you can think of where we can be watching, for changes upstream?

Best,
.ike








From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Jan 27 19:02:12 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:02:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
 Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <20130127223229.GP1423@glenbarber.us>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <20130127203759.GA6460@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20130127223229.GP1423@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <20130128000212.GA10285@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 05:32:29PM -0500, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 03:37:59PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 02:57:31PM -0500, Isaac Levy wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > 
> > 
> > I'm going to mention one thing that I ran into when first using sv
> > checkout.  I believe it's obvious to those familiar with svn, but not
> > necessarily to those of us who don't use it.
> > 
> > If doing svn co whatever /usr/src, one should first rm -rf /usr/src if it
> > exists.  That is, if you do a basic install, include /usr/src, then do svn
> > co, it may cause problems.  
> > 
> 
> http://www.FreeBSD.org/handbook/svn.html states:
> 
> Warning: If the local directory already exists but was not created by
> svn, rename or delete it before the checkout. Checkout over an existing
> non-svn directory can cause conflicts between the existing files and
> those brought in from the repository.

Yup, that was due to me.  :)  (Seriously, I mentioned it on the forums and
wblock@ had it fixed in a few minutes)

I was referring to the wiki link given in the original post. 



-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

Buffy: You're missing the whole point of Halloween.
Willow: Free candy?!


From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Sun Jan 27 19:02:41 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:02:41 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request for Review,
 Summary of FreeBSD src fetching problems
In-Reply-To: <1359329162-1994236.5580628.fr0RNPUGr003018@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1359316681-142543.691364919.fr0RJvVul024357@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <20130127225158.GQ1423@glenbarber.us>
 <1359329162-1994236.5580628.fr0RNPUGr003018@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20130128000241.GT1423@glenbarber.us>

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 06:25:29PM -0500, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> > And therein, in my opinion, is what is making this such a big deal.  The
> > exporter has run for far too long.  It is buggy at best.  It often
> > crashes when files are replaced.  
> 
> Thanks for this peek behind the curtain, this makes sense-
> 

This really is not behind the curtain.  Simon would occasionally post to
-stable, -current (and I think -hackers) when the exporter was down.
This has not happened for some time.

> > Most importantly, and this is the part
> > that bothers me so much about this ongoing topic, it is not secure.
> 
> This is game-changing for my attitude.  Neglected systems are
> dangerous systems.
> 

To be clear, I mean specifically the fetch method.  I do not know how
CVS works underneath, but svn does checksumming of the "pristine" copy.
Additionally, svn supports fetching over https.  I do not know if CVS
does.

> Is there any clear path that you know of to end-of-life the src
> cvsup?
> 

I am not sure I understand what you mean.  Do you mean the timeframe
within which it will happen, or migration strategies, etc?

To the best of my knowledge, the cvs exporter will run for the duration
of the stable/9 branch (but not the releng/9.1 or release/9.1.0 or
later).  I may be wrong about this, but I seem to recall it was
mentioned in one of Ken's -RC announcements.

> Anywhere you can think of where we can be watching, for changes
> upstream?
> 

-stable, -current are probably the two to keep an eye on.  There is
a new -ops-announce list, but I think that is intended for maintenance
and service interruption announcements.

Glen

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From matthewstory at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 11:05:20 2013
From: matthewstory at gmail.com (Matthew Story)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:05:20 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk Event -- Pictures and Recap
Message-ID: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>

We've got a re-cap and photos of the event we did a few weeks ago with Kirk
McKusick at AxialMarket.  Glad so many from NYC*BUG could make it out, and
hope that the pictures and re-cap are some consolidation for those of you
that couldn't make it.

Re-Cap:
http://wp.me/p2TjyL-1z

Photos:
http://axialites.tumblr.com/post/40873217723/kirk-mckusick-axial-the-freebsd-project-axial

Was humbling to host Kirk, and more humbling that he stuck around for so
long after his talk to hang out.  Hope everyone who came had a great time.

-- 
regards,
matt
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Jan 29 16:37:53 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 16:37:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] TCP Slow Start - NetBSD
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NZhcZvaHYR9xF7odcOpxE73QYwJfshL=gDphK1AT6G5MA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all
  Any one know if NetBSD allows tuning the TCP Slow start "flightsize". In
FreeBSD there is s sysctl net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize but I can not
find any reference to this in NetBSD nor any related sysctls. Any ideas ?
-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From henry95 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 21:57:58 2013
From: henry95 at gmail.com (Henry Mendez)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:57:58 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk Event -- Pictures and Recap
In-Reply-To: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again Matt and the folks at Axial who helps organize then event. It
was a good time, and an excellent talk.

Much appreciated.

-Henry


On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Matthew Story <matthewstory at gmail.com>wrote:

> We've got a re-cap and photos of the event we did a few weeks ago with
> Kirk McKusick at AxialMarket.  Glad so many from NYC*BUG could make it out,
> and hope that the pictures and re-cap are some consolidation for those of
> you that couldn't make it.
>
> Re-Cap:
> http://wp.me/p2TjyL-1z
>
> Photos:
>
> http://axialites.tumblr.com/post/40873217723/kirk-mckusick-axial-the-freebsd-project-axial
>
> Was humbling to host Kirk, and more humbling that he stuck around for so
> long after his talk to hang out.  Hope everyone who came had a great time.
>
> --
> regards,
> matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Jan 29 22:21:25 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:21:25 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Kirk Event -- Pictures and Recap
In-Reply-To: <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510891B5.6000104@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/29/13 21:57, Henry Mendez wrote:
> Thanks again Matt and the folks at Axial who helps organize then event. It
> was a good time, and an excellent talk.
>
> Much appreciated.
>
> -Henry
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Matthew Story <matthewstory at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> We've got a re-cap and photos of the event we did a few weeks ago with
>> Kirk McKusick at AxialMarket.  Glad so many from NYC*BUG could make it out,
>> and hope that the pictures and re-cap are some consolidation for those of
>> you that couldn't make it.
>>
>> Re-Cap:
>> http://wp.me/p2TjyL-1z
>>
>> Photos:
>>
>> http://axialites.tumblr.com/post/40873217723/kirk-mckusick-axial-the-freebsd-project-axial
>>
>> Was humbling to host Kirk, and more humbling that he stuck around for so
>> long after his talk to hang out.  Hope everyone who came had a great time.

It was an excellent meeting, and huge thanks to Matt and Ike.

I have had emails with Kirk since, and we'd love to do some periodic, 
informal socials when Kirk and Eric are in town, but that won't be until 
September.

We will probably look at getting sponsors to cover an extra night in the 
hotel for them, plus a case or two of their preferred wine.

Events like that are particularly important, and this one had a strong 
affect on a number of attendees not usually at our meetings.  "Great, 
you get why the BSD model is sane"  "Great, your firm uses FreeBSD, now 
start pushes patches upstream."

And it's probably important to point out that Kirk and Eric are in NYC 
six times a year for ACM's Queue magazine, which is filled with some 
great articles.  Two of the columnists are PHK and NYC's very own GNN, 
and if you're not reading their stuff, you're missing out big.

Final quick note: we had a short discussion on admin@ and offline about 
whether this was appropriate to post to talk at ... we are VERY careful 
about the line between NYCBUG and anything that can be conveyed as 
corporate promotion.  We're a voluntary user group, and not a sales 
tool.  Yet those who chimed in agreed this was fine, and it's awesome 
that Kirk could speak to a packed audience like he did.

g



From bcallah at devio.us  Tue Jan 29 22:30:15 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:30:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite on... OpenBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510893C7.6090500@devio.us>

Hi talk --

I'm expecting an EdgeRouter Lite machine in the next few days to help 
with the Octeon port of OpenBSD. I know this machine runs FreeBSD. Is 
anyone here running FreeBSD on this machine? If so, can you please share 
a dmesg (especially if it's appreciably different from the one Juli 
Mallett posted to freebsd-mips) and your thoughts/opinions on the machine.

Thanks!

~Brian


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Jan 29 22:33:53 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:33:53 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite on... OpenBSD
In-Reply-To: <510893C7.6090500@devio.us>
References: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <510893C7.6090500@devio.us>
Message-ID: <510894A1.4060008@ceetonetechnology.com>

On 01/29/13 22:30, Brian Callahan wrote:
> Hi talk --
>
> I'm expecting an EdgeRouter Lite machine in the next few days to help
> with the Octeon port of OpenBSD. I know this machine runs FreeBSD. Is
> anyone here running FreeBSD on this machine? If so, can you please share
> a dmesg (especially if it's appreciably different from the one Juli
> Mallett posted to freebsd-mips) and your thoughts/opinions on the machine.

Ike.... Mike N...

You know who you are... I think you might be helpful here.

g



From mike at myownsoho.net  Wed Jan 30 12:19:37 2013
From: mike at myownsoho.net (Mike N.)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:19:37 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite on... OpenBSD
In-Reply-To: <510894A1.4060008@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CAB+9ogc05mwWvf9LTpBasevx7QLiR3dRT-EVVW+FA1R-BJSu+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1r8CU3BszdhJ31Tq7ftU4m3r9fD_p6Nfay2wnYGKEuKy0NoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <510893C7.6090500@devio.us> <510894A1.4060008@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <767ea31b7abf4027bae25f52a079a95c@myownsoho.net>

 

sry, i haven't touched mips + freeBSD 

I'd love to hear more about the goings-on and what-have-yous. 

mike- 

On 2013-01-29 22:33, George Rosamond wrote: 

> On 01/29/13 22:30, Brian Callahan wrote:
> 
>> Hi talk -- I'm expecting an EdgeRouter Lite machine in the next few days to help with the Octeon port of OpenBSD. I know this machine runs FreeBSD. Is anyone here running FreeBSD on this machine? If so, can you please share a dmesg (especially if it's appreciably different from the one Juli Mallett posted to freebsd-mips) and your thoughts/opinions on the machine.
> 
> Ike.... Mike N...
> 
> You know who you are... I think you might be helpful here.
> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk [1]

-- 
Mike Nichols
mike at myownsoho.net
o. 212 2022194
c. 347 7251661
http://myownsoho.com
 

Links:
------
[1] http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From marcus.james at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 12:35:12 2013
From: marcus.james at gmail.com (James Marcus)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:35:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Off topic Dedicated Internet access
Message-ID: <CAM54t=aY4rZr0aAQADbTk8myev8rsbr1gETq4Bq9=j-h9zu7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
We are looking at getting a new circuit in our building. Lots of ISPs are
pushing cheap 100MB fiber into our area.  I"m wondering if I'm really
getting the best pricing for  2/yr contract 100MB fiber $1950.00 MRC


Anyone ordering similar circuits?


Thanks,
james
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From nycbug at wynn.com  Thu Jan 31 16:44:51 2013
From: nycbug at wynn.com (Brett Wynkoop)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:44:51 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] off topic EIS (Extreme Ice Survey)
Message-ID: <20130131164451.32b99824@ivory.lan>

Greeting-


Since I spent date night last week in a hotel in Belmont California 
reading the "Pilots Operating Handbook - Zlin Savage Cub".  My wife
decided last night we had to take a 2 hour break from our toils for
some make up time.

She took me to a documentary film "Chasing Ice".  I was totally engaged
through the whole film, which was in large part about the technical and
organizational  challenges in putting together the EIS (Extreme Ice
Survey) project.

I think many of you will enjoy the film if you can find some place to
see it. It is not showing in major houses. 

They have some discussion of small computer systems used as controllers
for cameras.

To find a location near you http://www.chasingice.com/

-Brett

-- 

wynkoop at wynn.com               http://prd4.wynn.com/wynkoop/pgp-keys.txt
917-642-6925
718-717-5435

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep 
and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against 
tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson. 


From bonsaime at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 19:35:44 2013
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:35:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] TCP Slow Start - NetBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NZhcZvaHYR9xF7odcOpxE73QYwJfshL=gDphK1AT6G5MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZhcZvaHYR9xF7odcOpxE73QYwJfshL=gDphK1AT6G5MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJU5ZBOHmT49OXiTG9cFWu75sQqX7rRg3VHOYk2uA0AiBktF3A@mail.gmail.com>

What is fightsize and what would you want to adjust it for... like what
conditions? If it's sensitive, im not pressing, but would love to hear.

Evil person that i am has not googled before posting this message... doing
that nowish.
On Jan 29, 2013 4:39 PM, "Mark Saad" <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> Hello all
>   Any one know if NetBSD allows tuning the TCP Slow start "flightsize". In
> FreeBSD there is s sysctl net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize but I can not
> find any reference to this in NetBSD nor any related sysctls. Any ideas ?
> --
>
> Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
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From bonsaime at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 19:39:52 2013
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 19:39:52 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] TCP Slow Start - NetBSD
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBOHmT49OXiTG9cFWu75sQqX7rRg3VHOYk2uA0AiBktF3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXt9NZhcZvaHYR9xF7odcOpxE73QYwJfshL=gDphK1AT6G5MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJU5ZBOHmT49OXiTG9cFWu75sQqX7rRg3VHOYk2uA0AiBktF3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJU5ZBMcbY6DyHav=oged6uiCuxT4pA6bRyFdbaNMJ_187maZw@mail.gmail.com>

> On Jan 29, 2013 4:39 PM, "Mark Saad" <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all
>>   Any one know if NetBSD allows tuning the TCP Slow start "flightsize".
In FreeBSD there is s sysctl net.inet.tcp.slowstart_flightsize but I can
not find any reference to this in NetBSD nor any related sysctls. Any ideas
?
>> --
>>
>> Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
>>
>>
What is fightsize and what would you want to adjust it for... like what
conditions? If it's sensitive, im not pressing, but would love to hear.

Evil person that i am has not googled before posting this message... doing
that nowish.

(adjusted post-mortem) ______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
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