From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:21 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 23:01:21 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD svnup finding
Message-ID: <52255101.5010201@ceetonetechnology.com>

I was having some issues with upgrading ports on FreeBSD for a long
while.. and figured out the issue was with svnup.

So svnup doesn't trim *anything* by default.. you have to add:

trim_tree=1

To have *any* trimming done.  So even any old patches located in files/
are not trimmed, which was causing everything from pkgconf to perl to fail.

I now have that variable set just in the ports section of the
svnup.conf, although it could also be in the main section.

g


From venture37 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  4 18:23:50 2013
From: venture37 at gmail.com (Sevan / Venture37)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 02:23:50 +0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request to remove submission to dmesgd
Message-ID: <5227B2F6.4010706@gmail.com>

Hi guys,
I submitted a dmesg output from an out of date OpenBSD snapshot last 
night by mistake, can someone with the ability remove 
http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2482

Thanks.


Sevan


From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Sep  4 19:05:47 2013
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 19:05:47 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Request to remove submission to dmesgd
In-Reply-To: <5227B2F6.4010706@gmail.com>
References: <5227B2F6.4010706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACs0eVTnAaX-fTSaj=Q2OhGCWXPQizX8BD8_gmGqNdSby9-SiQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Sevan / Venture37 <venture37 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I submitted a dmesg output from an out of date OpenBSD snapshot last night
> by mistake, can someone with the ability remove
> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2482

gone


From spork at bway.net  Wed Sep  4 19:55:13 2013
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 19:55:13 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs/pgsql brain dump
Message-ID: <27BF6ABE-4B8C-4AB5-B902-593EEB583EE5@bway.net>

Some random thoughts I jotted down during the presentation:

*set the zfs recordsize to 8K on a filesystem (eg: /var/db/pgsql) so zfs blocks match db blocks
*full_page_writes = off is safe on zfs (or any other COW filesystem) and gives some performance gains
*reduce the ARC to leave some RAM for PG, on a 32GB host, I have this in loader.conf: vfs.zfs.arc_max="16G"
*for managing streaming replication, repmgr is great (http://www.repmgr.org/); it simplifies swapping a master/slave and creating new slaves down to a few commands
*pgpool (http://pgpool.net/) is nice for pooling and load balancing over a number of slaves, but the FreeBSD port is very out of date, grab the source, hope a few linuxisms are now fixed
*Someone asked about ZIL on SSDs, this is a very quick and dirty benchmark on two $80 SATA drives and two $150 Intel 320 SSDs for ZIL:  https://ns.morefoo.com/zil/pgbench_w_sys/ - we use this on slaves to save some cash, masters are all SSD.  The main drawback with SSD ZIL is it does nothing for reads.
*SSDs in general, keep spares, if you have no budget for a few dozen SAS drives, having a ton of hot spares is still orders of magnitude cheaper.  Intel 320s are safe as are their new semi-enterprise line (can't remember the model at the moment, ask me if you're curious and I'll dig it up)
*SSD safety and notes on battery/cap backed SSDS: http://blog.2ndquadrant.com/intel_ssd_now_off_the_sherr_sh/
*pgtune is awesome if you need some quick guidance on tuning: https://github.com/gregs1104/pgtune
*Two books that are awesome, particularly Greg Smith's tuning book which has excellent explanations of hardware:  http://www.packtpub.com/postgresql-90-high-performance/book and http://www.packtpub.com/postgresql-9-admin-cookbook/book

Feel free to argue with any of the above. :)

Charles


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Sep  4 20:07:49 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 17:07:49 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs/pgsql brain dump
In-Reply-To: <27BF6ABE-4B8C-4AB5-B902-593EEB583EE5@bway.net>
References: <27BF6ABE-4B8C-4AB5-B902-593EEB583EE5@bway.net>
Message-ID: <5227CB55.4070606@nomadlogic.org>

On 09/04/13 16:55, Charles Sprickman wrote:
> Some random thoughts I jotted down during the presentation:
>
thanks charles - really sad i couldn't make this meeting today :/

> *set the zfs recordsize to 8K on a filesystem (eg: /var/db/pgsql) so zfs blocks match db blocks

fantastic advice.  was recently doing some burn-in testing and was 
caught by zfs defaul recordsize being 128k blocks, adjusting my tests to 
use 128k blocks more than doubled my aggregate throughput.

lesson: blocksizes do matter!

> *full_page_writes = off is safe on zfs (or any other COW filesystem) and gives some performance gains
> *reduce the ARC to leave some RAM for PG, on a 32GB host, I have this in loader.conf: vfs.zfs.arc_max="16G"
> *for managing streaming replication, repmgr is great (http://www.repmgr.org/); it simplifies swapping a master/slave and creating new slaves down to a few commands
> *pgpool (http://pgpool.net/) is nice for pooling and load balancing over a number of slaves, but the FreeBSD port is very out of date, grab the source, hope a few linuxisms are now fixed
> *Someone asked about ZIL on SSDs, this is a very quick and dirty benchmark on two $80 SATA drives and two $150 Intel 320 SSDs for ZIL:  https://ns.morefoo.com/zil/pgbench_w_sys/ - we use this on slaves to save some cash, masters are all SSD.  The main drawback with SSD ZIL is it does nothing for reads.

+1 on the intl 320 SSD cards

> *SSDs in general, keep spares, if you have no budget for a few dozen SAS drives, having a ton of hot spares is still orders of magnitude cheaper.  Intel 320s are safe as are their new semi-enterprise line (can't remember the model at the moment, ask me if you're curious and I'll dig it up)
> *SSD safety and notes on battery/cap backed SSDS: http://blog.2ndquadrant.com/intel_ssd_now_off_the_sherr_sh/
> *pgtune is awesome if you need some quick guidance on tuning: https://github.com/gregs1104/pgtune
> *Two books that are awesome, particularly Greg Smith's tuning book which has excellent explanations of hardware:  http://www.packtpub.com/postgresql-90-high-performance/book and http://www.packtpub.com/postgresql-9-admin-cookbook/book
>
+1 on Greg's high perf psql book!

=pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Wed Sep  4 22:16:17 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 22:16:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs/pgsql brain dump
In-Reply-To: <27BF6ABE-4B8C-4AB5-B902-593EEB583EE5@bway.net>
References: <27BF6ABE-4B8C-4AB5-B902-593EEB583EE5@bway.net>
Message-ID: <20130905021617.GA63041@glenbarber.us>

I wasn't there, but I'll never turn up an opportunity to argue with you.
:)

On Wed, Sep 04, 2013 at 07:55:13PM -0400, Charles Sprickman wrote:
> *reduce the ARC to leave some RAM for PG, on a 32GB host, I have
> this in loader.conf: vfs.zfs.arc_max="16G"

pjd wrote up some configurations he recommends, if it is useful:

http://blogs.freebsdish.org/pjd/2010/08/06/from-sysinstall-to-zfs-only-configuration

In his notes, he states that vm.kmem_size should be about 150% of RAM,
and vfs.zfs.arc_max should be about 50% (as you have it).

> *SSDs in general, keep spares, if you have no budget for a few
> dozen SAS drives, having a ton of hot spares is still orders of
> magnitude cheaper.  Intel 320s are safe as are their new semi-enterprise
> line (can't remember the model at the moment, ask me if you're
> curious and I'll dig it up)

Intel 335?

> Feel free to argue with any of the above. :)
> 

Hrm.  I must be losing my touch.  This wasn't much arguing at all, was
it?  :-)

Glen

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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Sep  5 22:49:30 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2013 22:49:30 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon organizing meeting
Message-ID: <522942BA.90406@ceetonetechnology.com>

So we're holding the organizing meeting on Monday, September 9.

(for those not on announce@, please subscribe.)

The quick spiel is this:

Monday, September 9
7 PM
Suspenders backroom
111 Broadway

NYCBSDCon organizing meeting

We will discuss a new direction for organizing NYCBSDCon.  Instead of
attempting biannual two day conferences, we are looking at doing
day-long events focused on a particular theme.

Our first target date is February 1, 2014.  The conference theme will be
"The BSDs in Userland" looking at practical applications of the BSDs in
production environments.

We encourage everyone to get involved in the organizing effort.  Whether
you've been involved before, or it's your first time, there will be
roles for everyone to play.

*****

There are a number of informal discussions going on outside of talk@
about the focus on the conference and how to angle the presentations.

It is a vital discussion to have and to hammer out.  Our events matter
in the context of both the BSD projects, not to mention within the
larger technical community in New York.


From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  6 09:36:15 2013
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 09:36:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] RSA/DSA for encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <82B8A5E2-6DC1-4223-AD93-8EAD5CBE0B8C@free.fr>
References: <201308071358.r77DwLhs028247@rs103.luxsci.com>
 <CACs0eVRtuEya9qqEh-P3zM7KonqD2H2HFY2VP-4NSd42n86r-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <521D353C.8060607@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVSGsm1OrJYR02wbq_NoyibZ--P4Qk05prsAcCAtKph8hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <521D576B.5000600@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVSysyyQJ6a_qUgKUKj=Yywk01R__KGEDzS4yZ5cPUTUDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <521D5B5E.9020605@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <01DFC240-D230-4618-AA65-D1DED95C2D14@free.fr>
 <CACs0eVRcpfFex+H+FEuOOAc-qWi5Fs9O8YMYuUMbEw17BpL_iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <82B8A5E2-6DC1-4223-AD93-8EAD5CBE0B8C@free.fr>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1NOC9rK0KGR+nsVN_XSqF9tgzRXPCEnofcGUZCyY_Jbpg@mail.gmail.com>

>From Schneier <http://www.theguardian.com/profile/bruceschneier>'s Guardian
article today:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance

>Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve
systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can.
I'm ignorant of the inner working of elliptic-curve systems. Obviously
Bruce is an authority, but is he right here? Are the older algorithms safer
from NSA evesdropping?




On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 3:05 AM, idMac <idmac at free.fr> wrote:

> Thank you, I'll search where I read it !
>
>
> > On 28 ao?t 2013, at 14:38, Okan Demirmen <okan at demirmen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 7:57 AM, idMac <idmac at free.fr> wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I know it's not enough but it could be 'one more edge' to improve
> secured
> >> access, it's the yubikey.
> >> Or just a usb stick transformed to be used with pamusb lib.
> >
> > Yes, I totally agree, especially with yubikey.
> >
> >> Another thing, ECDSA is better than RSA until size is lower than 1024 or
> >> 2048 bits I read. (But I would have confirmation/infirmation of it)
> >> For example, RSA key with more than 4096 could be stronger than ECDSA
> key
> >> with 4096 bits.
> >>
> >> Is it true ?
> >
> > I won't post potentially mis-information, and leave it to someone
> > else...archives are a killer :)
> >
> >> Thank you,
> >> Julien
> >>
> >> On 28 Aug, 2013, at 4:07 AM, George Rosamond <
> george at ceetonetechnology.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Okan Demirmen:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:50 PM, George Rosamond
> >> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Okan Demirmen:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:24 PM, George Rosamond
> >> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Okan Demirmen:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy
> >> <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I'd love to know what people's thoughts are on the state of older
> >> RSA/DSA encryption, versus the future of eliptic curve ECDSA:
> >>
> >>
> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/517781/math-advances-raise-the-prospect-of-an-internet-security-crisis/
> >>
> >> --
> >> A few years ago, a number of us were wary of the brand-spankin'-new ECC
> >> crypto for use in SSH public keys.  And then months later, there were
> >> some ECDSA/ssh implementation problems exposed:
> >>
> >> http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=130613765816780&w=2
> >>
> >> So, that was 2 years ago, ECDSA implementations are now no longer in
> >> their infancy.
> >>
> >> --
> >> What are people's thoughts on the practicality of starting to use ECDSA
> >> keys?
> >>
> >> Has anyone here seen their use mandated over RSA/DSA in a business
> setting?
> >> Has anyone just jumped into ECDSA bliss, and not looked back?
> >>
> >>
> >> Not that this might mean much, but I use them.
> >>
> >> As for policies in a business setting; I gather such technical
> >> policies are made by people like you, so it's likely up to what folks
> >> like you write in said policies :)
> >>
> >>
> >> So I'm in the process of getting a client to pickup better practices
> >> with SSH, and found out even OSX 10.7.5 doesn't support ecdsa.
> >>
> >> AFAIK, Putty doesn't either yet, and I doubt SSH for Windows does
> either.
> >>
> >>
> >> So many things there just blew my mind...but OK, I'll mend myself later
> :)
> >>
> >> I'd simply recommend to them to start using keys, regardless of type -
> >> get them in the habit, and whenever these other tools get support for
> >> the new fangle stuff, just add to authorized keys and migrate.  Just
> >> get them in the habit of thinking about keys instead.  I'm sure you
> >> know all this....
> >>
> >>
> >> Like most of the sane world, they are using keys.. with passwds.  I'm
> >> going the next step.
> >>
> >>
> >> I figured.  So here's my issue, and you can call it a double-edged
> >> sword if you want - one is storing private keys on client that lives
> >> in an extremely hostile environment - that is the vector that needs to
> >> be addressed.  Sure, remove keys and use passwords instead - then
> >> we're back to that debate.
> >>
> >> Double-edged? Maybe, but think about the use-case and attack vectors -
> >> that's all I'm saying.
> >>
> >>
> >> So this would be much easier if we could have IRC synchronized with
> >> talk@  ;)  (efnet #nycbug)
> >>
> >> Security and its related fields are often relative, and dependent upon
> >> adversaries in question.  And part of the relative and cumulative issue
> >> is with user behavior.
> >>
> >> Don't require a strict security policy on passwds and 12 other things
> >> overnight.  Once they figure out how to create and remember multiple
> >> long passwds, then you build off that, for instance.  So you have them
> >> comfortably using SSH, then keys.  And keys with passwds doesn't seem so
> >> initimidating.
> >>
> >> g
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> >> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Fri Sep  6 12:26:10 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 16:26:10 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] RSA/DSA for encryption: has it's time come?
Message-ID: <201309061626.r86GQAEE012493@rs101.luxsci.com>


On September 6, 2013 09:36:15 AM EDT, Justin Dearing 
<zippy1981 at gmail.com> wrote:

>> From Schneier <http://www.theguardian.com/profile/bruceschneier>'s Guardian
> article today:
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance
>
>> Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve
> systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can.
> I'm ignorant of the inner working of elliptic-curve systems. Obviously
> Bruce is an authority, but is he right here? Are the older algorithms safer
> from NSA evesdropping?

He dives into the bits a bit more in his blog,
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/the_nsas_crypto_1.html

But in this post, his rationale apears to merely be well-informed conjecture:
"Certainly the fact that the NSA is pushing elliptic-curve cryptography 
is some indication that it can break them more easily."

Would I trust Schneier on this?  Heck yeah.  Do I want more concrete 
information, ABSOLUTELY.

--
In the meantime, everyone has multiple keys- of different algorithms, 
in places which matter, right?  :)

Rocket-
.ike




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Sep  6 12:50:47 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 12:50:47 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] RSA/DSA for encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <201309061626.r86GQAEE012493@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201309061626.r86GQAEE012493@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <522A07E7.3020700@ceetonetechnology.com>

Isaac (.ike) Levy:
> 
> On September 6, 2013 09:36:15 AM EDT, Justin Dearing
> <zippy1981 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> From Schneier <http://www.theguardian.com/profile/bruceschneier>'s
>>> Guardian
>> article today:
>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance
>>
>>
>>> Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve
>> systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can.
>> I'm ignorant of the inner working of elliptic-curve systems. Obviously
>> Bruce is an authority, but is he right here? Are the older algorithms
>> safer
>> from NSA evesdropping?
> 
> He dives into the bits a bit more in his blog,
> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/the_nsas_crypto_1.html
> 
> But in this post, his rationale apears to merely be well-informed
> conjecture:
> "Certainly the fact that the NSA is pushing elliptic-curve cryptography
> is some indication that it can break them more easily."
> 
> Would I trust Schneier on this?  Heck yeah.  Do I want more concrete
> information, ABSOLUTELY.
> 
> -- 
> In the meantime, everyone has multiple keys- of different algorithms, in
> places which matter, right?  :)

I have been following this stuff, like most other people, and
readjusting the threat model in my head.

The problem is, to unfortunately quote Rumsfeld, there aren't just
'known unknowns' but there are also 'unknown unknowns'.

Methodology remains important.  Layered and time-based security.
Determining the adversaries, the stakes involved, the costs to both the
target and adversary... it's not just some simple binary question.  And
security/anonymity/privacy need to be in the design of solutions, and
verifiable, privacy policies/assurances/reputations are not only
useless, they provide false security.

Guessing about the integrity of ecdsa is beyond any of us.  If Schneier
doesn't really have some hard and fast answer, who does?

One his articles talks about his own adjustments in procedures... air
walling with a new PC, etc.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance

I think we all need to get acquainted to the array of tools:

* file/block wiping (man rm for -P, bcwipe, etc)
* gnupg for email, files, etc
* the native encryption tools on the bsds (softraid, geli/gbde)
* Tor client software (of course I was expected to mention that)
* RUN Tor NODES.  Please.  Whatever bandwidth >=20K you can swing.  On
BSDs.  There's Debian monoculture hell right now on that network.  Even
if all the relays were all OpenBSD current snapshots, it would still be
a monoculture hell (although entirely more comforting at least ;)

But Schneier's argument is about engineers reworking protocol beyond
mere tools.  Even non-devs here have a role though.  Become a
'translator' for non-techs.

Jan S posted this to Stanford's Liberation Tech list, one of the big
forums for these discussions.  He is hopefully going to be doing that
talk in NYC in the near future (not for us...)

https://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/2013-September/011310.html

So much to think about, argue and figure out... but I for one, would
love to see the BSDs fit into these questions more effectively.  First
step, FBSD www site should drop goog analytics :)  More on that topic in
a later thread.

Sorry for long ramble... those who know me realize I'm living in this
'space' for a long while.

g


From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep  6 15:18:27 2013
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:18:27 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] PostgreSQL + ZFS on FreeBSD Audio?
Message-ID: <522A2A83.5030009@gmail.com>

Missed the last meeting. Does anyone know if was recorded?
P


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Fri Sep  6 16:03:55 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 20:03:55 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] PostgreSQL + ZFS on FreeBSD Audio?
Message-ID: <201309062003.r86K3tXH007304@rs103.luxsci.com>


On September 6, 2013 03:18:27 PM EDT, Patrick McEvoy 
<mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Missed the last meeting. Does anyone know if was recorded?
> P

Audio up,

http://www.nycbug.org/?action=home&id=10339

Best,
.ike




From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep  6 16:45:17 2013
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2013 16:45:17 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] PostgreSQL + ZFS on FreeBSD Audio?
In-Reply-To: <201309062003.r86K3tXH007304@rs103.luxsci.com>
References: <201309062003.r86K3tXH007304@rs103.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <522A3EDD.6060208@gmail.com>

On 9/6/13 4:03 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
> On September 6, 2013 03:18:27 PM EDT, Patrick McEvoy
> <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Missed the last meeting. Does anyone know if was recorded?
>> P
>
> Audio up,
>
> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=home&id=10339
>
> Best,
> .ike
>
Cool! Thanks.
P


From mspitzer at gmail.com  Fri Sep  6 18:33:29 2013
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 18:33:29 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] PostgreSQL + ZFS on FreeBSD Audio?
In-Reply-To: <201309062003.r86K3tXH007304@rs103.luxsci.com>
References: <201309062003.r86K3tXH007304@rs103.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e6RCLwGSzi6afFmNDaphiYXNozoKYBMEiEvaKTkxgrz+w@mail.gmail.com>

Cool thanks, I wanted to see that on but new years got in the way

marc


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy
<ike at blackskyresearch.net>wrote:

>
> On September 6, 2013 03:18:27 PM EDT, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Missed the last meeting. Does anyone know if was recorded?
>> P
>>
>
> Audio up,
>
> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=**home&id=10339<http://www.nycbug.org/?action=home&id=10339>
>
> Best,
> .ike
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk<http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>



-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
--Albert Camus

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-- Winston Churchill

Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense.
--John McCarthy
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From bcallah at devio.us  Sat Sep  7 01:40:58 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2013 01:40:58 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] A New *BSD Video Podcast (and shameless plug for my
	blog)
Message-ID: <522ABC6A.5020102@devio.us>

Hi talk --

There's a new weekly *BSD video podcast called BSD Now. The first 
episode was released yesterday. Their site is http://www.bsdnow.tv/ and 
you can watch the video on YouTube at 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCWbYMwy7BE

Those on the nycbug irc channel already know but for everyone else: I 
wrote up a review of the episode on my blog 
http://blog.anthrobsd.net/022.html

I mostly write about *BSD advocacy topics. (like I said, shameless plug 
- but I think it will be of interest to the nycbug community :-) )

~Brian


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Sep  8 12:41:18 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:41:18 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
Message-ID: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

Wanted to share some of the excitement, I was beginning to think this day would never come:

I have seen the kame.net turtle swimming, in Brooklyn.  I got IPv6 internet connectivity at home, via bway.net DSL, and PFSense 2.1.  Small step for mankind, but I'm leaping up and down over it!

$ traceroute6 www.kame.net
traceroute6 to orange.kame.net (2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7) from 2607:d300:400:202::200, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
 1  dsl-ike-1.v6.bway.net  0.943 ms  1.027 ms  0.804 ms
 2  dsl-1-5.v6.bway.net  7.572 ms  7.968 ms  7.959 ms
 3  ge-9-16.car4.newyork1.level3.net  7.895 ms  7.869 ms  8.056 ms
 4  2001:1900:19:5::8  7.337 ms  7.715 ms  8.121 ms
 5  ntt-level3-40g.newyork1.level3.net  9.050 ms  8.181 ms  8.538 ms
 6  ae-2.r22.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  7.703 ms  8.192 ms  8.716 ms
 7  ae-4.r21.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  87.058 ms  86.447 ms  86.691 ms
 8  ae-0.r20.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  91.569 ms  96.513 ms  96.750 ms
 9  as-3.r20.tokyjp01.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  184.096 ms  182.371 ms  262.385 ms
10  ae-2.r24.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  176.980 ms  174.575 ms  171.101 ms
11  po-1.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ra.gin.ntt.net  185.841 ms  171.228 ms  176.871 ms
12  ge-8-2.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ce.gin.ntt.net  197.859 ms  195.162 ms  195.575 ms
13  ve44.foundry6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  186.157 ms  194.800 ms  198.215 ms
14  2001:200::180a:a6ba:dbff:fe1d:19f4  200.877 ms  200.561 ms  187.447 ms
15  2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7  185.424 ms  188.674 ms  192.542 ms
$ 

--
My home bway.net DSL is lit up passing native dual-stack V4/V6, no tunnels.  Charles Sprickman, a NYC*BUG oldschooler, was on the other end and has really driven the whole thing on the bway.net side.  (Thanks spork!!!)  I believe they are the first (and only?) ISP serving residential IPv6.
A word of warning: I had to setup my own DSL modem, the provisioned gear is *not* nice to work with, and Bway has only rolled out a few of these.  If you do this, expect some difficult DIY setup time.  I'm certain this will get better as they roll more of these out...

In PfSense 2.1 (currently RC1), IPv6 capabilities have become a full-fledged equal citizen, making it very simple and clear for an IPv6 neophyte like myself to get it all working sanely.  The IPv6 UI elements surely beat any of the V6 bits in the large brand-name enterprise products I handle regularly at work.
For fun/testing, I even set up "clones" of the wireless interface, so I could have an IPv6-only AP, an IPv4-only AP, and a dual-stack AP.  Kindof stupid, but I wanted to separate them as I explore and start messing around with slicing up the *massive* block of addresses I now have.

I'm still confused and learning more about DHCPv6 vs. stateless auto-negotiation and whatnot, but on my first pass setup, the PFSense DHCPv6 lights up machines on my network with no fuss or problems.

--
No NAT!

One of the most difficult parts of IPv6 connectivity, for me, is the "every IP is internet routable" aspect.  Both awesome, and frightening.  Obviously this raises security, privacy, and anonymity issues that are pretty open ended for IPv6.  As I dive into the fray, at least there are tools as mature as PF :)

Best,
.ike





From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Sep  8 12:47:57 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:47:57 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
In-Reply-To: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:41 PM, "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Wanted to share some of the excitement, I was beginning to think this day would never come:
> 
> I have seen the kame.net turtle swimming, in Brooklyn.  I got IPv6 internet connectivity at home, via bway.net DSL, and PFSense 2.1.  Small step for mankind, but I'm leaping up and down over it!
> 
> $ traceroute6 www.kame.net
> traceroute6 to orange.kame.net (2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7) from 2607:d300:400:202::200, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
> 1  dsl-ike-1.v6.bway.net  0.943 ms  1.027 ms  0.804 ms
> 2  dsl-1-5.v6.bway.net  7.572 ms  7.968 ms  7.959 ms
> 3  ge-9-16.car4.newyork1.level3.net  7.895 ms  7.869 ms  8.056 ms
> 4  2001:1900:19:5::8  7.337 ms  7.715 ms  8.121 ms
> 5  ntt-level3-40g.newyork1.level3.net  9.050 ms  8.181 ms  8.538 ms
> 6  ae-2.r22.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  7.703 ms  8.192 ms  8.716 ms
> 7  ae-4.r21.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  87.058 ms  86.447 ms  86.691 ms
> 8  ae-0.r20.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  91.569 ms  96.513 ms  96.750 ms
> 9  as-3.r20.tokyjp01.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  184.096 ms  182.371 ms  262.385 ms
> 10  ae-2.r24.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  176.980 ms  174.575 ms  171.101 ms
> 11  po-1.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ra.gin.ntt.net  185.841 ms  171.228 ms  176.871 ms
> 12  ge-8-2.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ce.gin.ntt.net  197.859 ms  195.162 ms  195.575 ms
> 13  ve44.foundry6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  186.157 ms  194.800 ms  198.215 ms
> 14  2001:200::180a:a6ba:dbff:fe1d:19f4  200.877 ms  200.561 ms  187.447 ms
> 15  2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7  185.424 ms  188.674 ms  192.542 ms
> $ 
> 
> --
> My home bway.net DSL is lit up passing native dual-stack V4/V6, no tunnels.  Charles Sprickman, a NYC*BUG oldschooler, was on the other end and has really driven the whole thing on the bway.net side.  (Thanks spork!!!)  I believe they are the first (and only?) ISP serving residential IPv6.
> A word of warning: I had to setup my own DSL modem, the provisioned gear is *not* nice to work with, and Bway has only rolled out a few of these.  If you do this, expect some difficult DIY setup time.  I'm certain this will get better as they roll more of these out...
> 
> In PfSense 2.1 (currently RC1), IPv6 capabilities have become a full-fledged equal citizen, making it very simple and clear for an IPv6 neophyte like myself to get it all working sanely.  The IPv6 UI elements surely beat any of the V6 bits in the large brand-name enterprise products I handle regularly at work.
> For fun/testing, I even set up "clones" of the wireless interface, so I could have an IPv6-only AP, an IPv4-only AP, and a dual-stack AP.  Kindof stupid, but I wanted to separate them as I explore and start messing around with slicing up the *massive* block of addresses I now have.
> 
> I'm still confused and learning more about DHCPv6 vs. stateless auto-negotiation and whatnot, but on my first pass setup, the PFSense DHCPv6 lights up machines on my network with no fuss or problems.
> 
> --
> No NAT!
> 
> One of the most difficult parts of IPv6 connectivity, for me, is the "every IP is internet routable" aspect.  Both awesome, and frightening.  Obviously this raises security, privacy, and anonymity issues that are pretty open ended for IPv6.  As I dive into the fray, at least there are tools as mature as PF :)
> 
> Best,
> .ike

--
A quick glance at the barren wasteland of the IPv6 internet, (disabling v4 connectivity to get a real www view of who's showed up to the party):

V4/V6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.ietf.org/
http://www.nyi.net/
https://isc.sans.edu/
http://www.iij.ad.jp/en/
http://www.wide.ad.jp/
http://www.sixxs.net/
http://www.ccc.de/

Hrm, all these folks appear to rock full V6 for www,
https://www.facebook.com/
http://www.nsa.gov/
http://www.nsa.gov/kids/index.htm
http://www.whitehouse.gov/

Dead when I tried to hit it,
http://ipv6.netflix.com/

Interesting- site pretty badly broken, (v4 CDN), yet homepage html loads,
http://ipv6.cnn.com/

Funny, apparently search etc? are all functional via IPv6,
  https://www.google.com/
Additionally, *using* google IPv6-only is a total waste- it returns 'regular' results from IPv4-land.  They got the plumbing, but it's pointless if they don't use it in the product...
Yet, apparently neglected and broken,
  http://ipv6test.google.com/
  (links from a nice FAQ: http://www.google.com/ipv6/faq.html)

Not much appears to work except the www homepage,
http://www.yahoo.com/

NOPE:
https://twitter.com/
http://amazon.com/
http://www.paypal.com/
http://www.ebay.com/
http://www.aws.com/

Extreme disappointments, (for how much they talk about IPv6),
http://www.arstechnica.com/
  http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/01/ipv6-takes-one-step-forward-ipv4-two-steps-back-in-2012/2/
http://www.wired.com/





From billtotman at billtotman.com  Sun Sep  8 13:14:56 2013
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (Bill Totman)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 13:14:56 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
In-Reply-To: <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <A81D8E14-5E2F-48D2-90E4-5F8A7DB0311A@billtotman.com>

On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:47, "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:

> On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:41 PM, "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Wanted to share some of the excitement, I was beginning to think this day would never come:
>> 
>> I have seen the kame.net turtle swimming, in Brooklyn.  I got IPv6 internet connectivity at home, via bway.net DSL, and PFSense 2.1.  Small step for mankind, but I'm leaping up and down over it!
>> 
>> $ traceroute6 www.kame.net
>> traceroute6 to orange.kame.net (2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7) from 2607:d300:400:202::200, 64 hops max, 12 byte packets
>> 1  dsl-ike-1.v6.bway.net  0.943 ms  1.027 ms  0.804 ms
>> 2  dsl-1-5.v6.bway.net  7.572 ms  7.968 ms  7.959 ms
>> 3  ge-9-16.car4.newyork1.level3.net  7.895 ms  7.869 ms  8.056 ms
>> 4  2001:1900:19:5::8  7.337 ms  7.715 ms  8.121 ms
>> 5  ntt-level3-40g.newyork1.level3.net  9.050 ms  8.181 ms  8.538 ms
>> 6  ae-2.r22.nycmny01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  7.703 ms  8.192 ms  8.716 ms
>> 7  ae-4.r21.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  87.058 ms  86.447 ms  86.691 ms
>> 8  ae-0.r20.sttlwa01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net  91.569 ms  96.513 ms  96.750 ms
>> 9  as-3.r20.tokyjp01.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  184.096 ms  182.371 ms  262.385 ms
>> 10  ae-2.r24.tokyjp05.jp.bb.gin.ntt.net  176.980 ms  174.575 ms  171.101 ms
>> 11  po-1.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ra.gin.ntt.net  185.841 ms  171.228 ms  176.871 ms
>> 12  ge-8-2.a15.tokyjp01.jp.ce.gin.ntt.net  197.859 ms  195.162 ms  195.575 ms
>> 13  ve44.foundry6.otemachi.wide.ad.jp  186.157 ms  194.800 ms  198.215 ms
>> 14  2001:200::180a:a6ba:dbff:fe1d:19f4  200.877 ms  200.561 ms  187.447 ms
>> 15  2001:200:dff:fff1:216:3eff:feb1:44d7  185.424 ms  188.674 ms  192.542 ms
>> $ 
>> 
>> --
>> My home bway.net DSL is lit up passing native dual-stack V4/V6, no tunnels.  Charles Sprickman, a NYC*BUG oldschooler, was on the other end and has really driven the whole thing on the bway.net side.  (Thanks spork!!!)  I believe they are the first (and only?) ISP serving residential IPv6.
>> A word of warning: I had to setup my own DSL modem, the provisioned gear is *not* nice to work with, and Bway has only rolled out a few of these.  If you do this, expect some difficult DIY setup time.  I'm certain this will get better as they roll more of these out...
>> 
>> In PfSense 2.1 (currently RC1), IPv6 capabilities have become a full-fledged equal citizen, making it very simple and clear for an IPv6 neophyte like myself to get it all working sanely.  The IPv6 UI elements surely beat any of the V6 bits in the large brand-name enterprise products I handle regularly at work.
>> For fun/testing, I even set up "clones" of the wireless interface, so I could have an IPv6-only AP, an IPv4-only AP, and a dual-stack AP.  Kindof stupid, but I wanted to separate them as I explore and start messing around with slicing up the *massive* block of addresses I now have.
>> 
>> I'm still confused and learning more about DHCPv6 vs. stateless auto-negotiation and whatnot, but on my first pass setup, the PFSense DHCPv6 lights up machines on my network with no fuss or problems.
>> 
>> --
>> No NAT!
>> 
>> One of the most difficult parts of IPv6 connectivity, for me, is the "every IP is internet routable" aspect.  Both awesome, and frightening.  Obviously this raises security, privacy, and anonymity issues that are pretty open ended for IPv6.  As I dive into the fray, at least there are tools as mature as PF :)
>> 
>> Best,
>> .ike
> 
> --
> A quick glance at the barren wasteland of the IPv6 internet, (disabling v4 connectivity to get a real www view of who's showed up to the party):
> 
> V4/V6
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
> http://www.ietf.org/
> http://www.nyi.net/
> https://isc.sans.edu/
> http://www.iij.ad.jp/en/
> http://www.wide.ad.jp/
> http://www.sixxs.net/
> http://www.ccc.de/
> 
> Hrm, all these folks appear to rock full V6 for www,
> https://www.facebook.com/
> http://www.nsa.gov/
> http://www.nsa.gov/kids/index.htm
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/
> 
> Dead when I tried to hit it,
> http://ipv6.netflix.com/
> 
> Interesting- site pretty badly broken, (v4 CDN), yet homepage html loads,
> http://ipv6.cnn.com/
> 
> Funny, apparently search etc? are all functional via IPv6,
>  https://www.google.com/
> Additionally, *using* google IPv6-only is a total waste- it returns 'regular' results from IPv4-land.  They got the plumbing, but it's pointless if they don't use it in the product...
> Yet, apparently neglected and broken,
>  http://ipv6test.google.com/
>  (links from a nice FAQ: http://www.google.com/ipv6/faq.html)
> 
> Not much appears to work except the www homepage,
> http://www.yahoo.com/
> 
> NOPE:
> https://twitter.com/
> http://amazon.com/
> http://www.paypal.com/
> http://www.ebay.com/
> http://www.aws.com/
> 
> Extreme disappointments, (for how much they talk about IPv6),
> http://www.arstechnica.com/
>  http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/01/ipv6-takes-one-step-forward-ipv4-two-steps-back-in-2012/2/
> http://www.wired.com/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Ok folks, we have our own IPv6 'Lewis', who will be our IPv6 'Clark'?

Sorry, Captain Meriwether, but, when you're 1st you get the glory AND the funny moniker.  ;)

-bt


From jpb at jimby.name  Sun Sep  8 13:54:51 2013
From: jpb at jimby.name (Jimmy B.)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 13:54:51 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Call For Participation: BSDP Working Group
Message-ID: <20130908175451.GB29394@jimby.name>


Hello All,

I've done some work recently on the BSDP Lab Exam, and reached
a point where I would like to get a wider group involved.

Currently, we have the following elements in place for the BSDP
Lab Exam:

 - Identified a list of tasks for an exam session (a 'form' in
   psychometric terms). The list of tasks is aligned with the
   knowledge domain percentages set by our psychometrician.

 - Developed a written scenario that incorporates the list of
   tasks noted above. The scenario forms the basis of the lab
   exam booklet that the candidate uses to take the exam.
   (The scenario is similar to one I presented at NYCBSDCon a
   couple of years ago.)

 - Developed a set of test scripts that test the completion of
   each task.  Most of the scripts for the first form are done.
   There are a few issues with some tests that need some
   attention.

   The test scripts are written in Perl and make use of two
   CPAN modules - the Test::More test harness and the
   Net::OpenSSH module for connectivity to the virtual
   machines.

There are a number of small (and larger) projects to be done
before we are ready to roll this out.

1. Finalize all tests and clean up the code for the first form.
   Development of new tests for other forms is also needed.

2. Develop a professional looking report that can be created
   immediately upon test completion for the candidate.

3. Develop an install DVD that can be used to prep workstations
   for a lab exam.  A prototype DVD exists and can be used
   as a reference but a better idea would be ZFS snapshots.

4. Develop a Quality Assurance (QA) group for the scripts and
   DVD, exam booklet, test report, and anything else.
   The importance of this group cannot be overestimated.  We
   have been successful in the BSDA exam because we have had
   many eyes looking at the process.

5. Develop a step by step guide for setting up a test center. An
   earlier version of this guide can be used, but needs some work.

6. Develop some brochure materials and banner ads for the BSDP
   exams.

... and more.


What I'm looking for is a group of 3-5 people to assist in the
above tasks.  With some help, I think we can meet the following
goals:

 - Demo of lab exam for vBSD Conference (October, 2013) with a
   shorter list of exam tasks, and not the same ones as above.
   Demo would be 2 exam workstations, exam fileserver, and network
   gear.

 - First Beta Exam in February 2014, hopefully at NYCBSDCon or after.

 - We will need to plan additional Beta Exams in early 2014.

 - Official launch at BSDCan in 2014.


Time commitment is what we need at this point.  If you can put
3-5 hours a week on some of the above items we will be successful.


Please let me know if you are interested and I'll organize a
kickoff meeting.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Jim B.



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Sep  8 14:23:15 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 14:23:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Call For Participation: BSDP Working Group
In-Reply-To: <20130908175451.GB29394@jimby.name>
References: <20130908175451.GB29394@jimby.name>
Message-ID: <522CC093.2020900@ceetonetechnology.com>

Jimmy B.:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I've done some work recently on the BSDP Lab Exam, and reached
> a point where I would like to get a wider group involved.
> 
> Currently, we have the following elements in place for the BSDP
> Lab Exam:
> 
>  - Identified a list of tasks for an exam session (a 'form' in
>    psychometric terms). The list of tasks is aligned with the
>    knowledge domain percentages set by our psychometrician.
> 
>  - Developed a written scenario that incorporates the list of
>    tasks noted above. The scenario forms the basis of the lab
>    exam booklet that the candidate uses to take the exam.
>    (The scenario is similar to one I presented at NYCBSDCon a
>    couple of years ago.)
> 
>  - Developed a set of test scripts that test the completion of
>    each task.  Most of the scripts for the first form are done.
>    There are a few issues with some tests that need some
>    attention.
> 
>    The test scripts are written in Perl and make use of two
>    CPAN modules - the Test::More test harness and the
>    Net::OpenSSH module for connectivity to the virtual
>    machines.
> 
> There are a number of small (and larger) projects to be done
> before we are ready to roll this out.
> 
> 1. Finalize all tests and clean up the code for the first form.
>    Development of new tests for other forms is also needed.
> 
> 2. Develop a professional looking report that can be created
>    immediately upon test completion for the candidate.
> 
> 3. Develop an install DVD that can be used to prep workstations
>    for a lab exam.  A prototype DVD exists and can be used
>    as a reference but a better idea would be ZFS snapshots.
> 
> 4. Develop a Quality Assurance (QA) group for the scripts and
>    DVD, exam booklet, test report, and anything else.
>    The importance of this group cannot be overestimated.  We
>    have been successful in the BSDA exam because we have had
>    many eyes looking at the process.
> 
> 5. Develop a step by step guide for setting up a test center. An
>    earlier version of this guide can be used, but needs some work.
> 
> 6. Develop some brochure materials and banner ads for the BSDP
>    exams.
> 
> ... and more.
> 
> 
> What I'm looking for is a group of 3-5 people to assist in the
> above tasks.  With some help, I think we can meet the following
> goals:
> 
>  - Demo of lab exam for vBSD Conference (October, 2013) with a
>    shorter list of exam tasks, and not the same ones as above.
>    Demo would be 2 exam workstations, exam fileserver, and network
>    gear.
> 
>  - First Beta Exam in February 2014, hopefully at NYCBSDCon or after.
> 
>  - We will need to plan additional Beta Exams in early 2014.
> 
>  - Official launch at BSDCan in 2014.
> 
> 
> Time commitment is what we need at this point.  If you can put
> 3-5 hours a week on some of the above items we will be successful.
> 
> 
> Please let me know if you are interested and I'll organize a
> kickoff meeting.
> 

Great opportunity.  Thanks Jim.

There's a number of new people in NYC around NYC*BUG, and I think it's
worth emphasizing its huge importance.

The issue today for BSD using entities is finding people with a strong
BSD background.  And not being able to find those people is critical to
them continuing and for others, adopting, BSDs for their infrastructure.

The BSD Certification Group is part of providing an answer to that problem.

Is it because we put certs on a pedestal?  Er, no.  Many of the better
sysadmins on this list don't even have BA's, much less BS's.  And at
least a couple have their GEDs.  So certifications are not worshiped here.

But BSDCG is community driven, and is extremely practical.  It's not
very expensive, and the materials are free or dirt cheap.  We started it
as a tool for building the BSDs in the production environments, not to
have people add expensive acronyms after their name.

So ping JPB and get involved.  It's a critical effort for our scene, in
NYC more than everywhere else.

Jim: we can certainly arrange some SME sessions in NYC at some point to
let people get involved in a one-off manner at least.

g



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Sep  8 14:30:24 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 14:30:24 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
In-Reply-To: <A81D8E14-5E2F-48D2-90E4-5F8A7DB0311A@billtotman.com>
References: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <A81D8E14-5E2F-48D2-90E4-5F8A7DB0311A@billtotman.com>
Message-ID: <1378665062-9001745.32496951.fr88IUOjC003433@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Sep 8, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Bill Totman <billtotman at billtotman.com> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:47, "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
> I got IPv6 internet connectivity at home, via bway.net DSL, and PFSense 2.1.
<snip>
>>> --
>>> Charles Sprickman, a NYC*BUG oldschooler, was on the other end and has really driven the whole thing on the bway.net side.  (Thanks spork!!!)  I believe they are the first (and only?) ISP serving residential IPv6.
<snip>
> Ok folks, we have our own IPv6 'Lewis', who will be our IPv6 'Clark'?
> 
> Sorry, Captain Meriwether, but, when you're 1st you get the glory AND the funny moniker.  ;)
> 
> -bt

I certainly believe Charles Sprickman deserves the title here, as well as Boris Kochergin, who appears to have driven the IPv6 rollout at NYI?

I'm just some goofball following the trail out in the wilderness :)

Rocket-
.ike





From billtotman at billtotman.com  Sun Sep  8 14:53:44 2013
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (Bill Totman)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 14:53:44 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
In-Reply-To: <1378665062-9001745.32496951.fr88IUOjC003433@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CE523FE3.E85F%billtotman@billtotman.com>

On 9/8/13 2:30 PM, "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:


>On Sep 8, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Bill Totman <billtotman at billtotman.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:47, "Isaac (.ike) Levy"
>><ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
>> I got IPv6 internet connectivity at home, via bway.net DSL, and PFSense
>>2.1.
><snip>
>>>> --
>>>> Charles Sprickman, a NYC*BUG oldschooler, was on the other end and
>>>>has really driven the whole thing on the bway.net side.  (Thanks
>>>>spork!!!)  I believe they are the first (and only?) ISP serving
>>>>residential IPv6.
><snip>
>> Ok folks, we have our own IPv6 'Lewis', who will be our IPv6 'Clark'?
>> 
>> Sorry, Captain Meriwether, but, when you're 1st you get the glory AND
>>the funny moniker.  ;)
>> 
>> -bt
>
>I certainly believe Charles Sprickman deserves the title here, as well as
>Boris Kochergin, who appears to have driven the IPv6 rollout at NYI?
>
>I'm just some goofball following the trail out in the wilderness :)
>
>Rocket-
>.ike

Oregon Trail style - got it.

-bt





From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Sep  8 15:07:55 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 15:07:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] IPv6 Lit in my Brooklyn Apartment
In-Reply-To: <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1378658525-383442.593030308.fr88GfKnR018832@rs149.luxsci.com>
 <1378658882-1141504.89013952.fr88GlwKg024474@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <1378668182-9905578.16565774.fr88JMCuH012129@rs149.luxsci.com>

On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:

> A quick glance at the barren wasteland of the IPv6 internet,

(I'm just looking at public www resources, still not checked active developer resources, source code access and bug reporting, MX services, etc?)

http://www.freebsd.org/      IPv6 services AOK
http://netbsd.org/           IPv6 services AOK
http://www.openbsd.org/      !!! Woah this actually surprises me, no IPv6 www services?
http://www.dragonflybsd.org/ IPv6 services AOK
http://pfsense.org/          IPv6 services AOK

Overall, awesome.

---
Now,

https://www.kernel.org/     no IPv6 www services
http://www.ubuntu.com/      no IPv6 www services
http://ipv6.centos.org/     no IPv6 www services
http://www.redhat.com/      no IPv6 www services
http://www.opensolaris.com/ no IPv6 www services
http://openindiana.org/     no IPv6 www services

http://www.sourceforge.net/ no IPv6 www services
https://github.com/         no IPv6 www services

http://www.apple.com/       IPv6 www 'homepage' services, but,
- App Store, no IPv6 www services (requisite for software updates)
http://store.apple.com/     no IPv6 www services
http://www.microsoft.com/   no IPv6 www services
http://www.oracle.com/      no IPv6 www services

http://www.cisco.com/         IPv6 services AOK
http://www.juniper.net/us/en/ IPv6 services AOK
http://www.netgear.com/       no IPv6 www services
http://brocade.com/           no IPv6 www services

Registrars,
http://www.register.com/    no IPv6 www services
http://www.godaddy.com/     no IPv6 www services
http://en.gandi.net/        no IPv6 www services
http://fr.gandi.net/        no IPv6 www services

Browsers,
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/ IPv6 services, homepage badly broken, many assets not loading
http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/  no IPv6 downloads
https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/  IPv6 services/download AOK
http://www.epicbrowser.com/  no IPv6 www services
http://www.opera.com/        no IPv6 www services

Wow.

Rocket-
.ike





From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Sep  8 14:43:55 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 14:43:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
Message-ID: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>

I have a Zenbook, using the AR9485 Atheros card.  Unfortunately, it won't
be supported until 10 is released.  I've played a bit with CURRENT on this
machine, but don't have the time or patience right now.

I've tried a few of the options posted by the person who has created the
driver to get it working on 9.2-RC3 but had no luck, and I don't want to
spend a lot of time on it at this point.


So, my first question, as I like the small form factor, has anyone used one
of these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162037

It's a Buffalo WLI-UC-GNM, which does not seem to be specified in man(4)
run, though a WLI-UC-GN is specified.  Some googling seems to indicate that
it's supported, though one person was having trouble with it a year ago.  

What I'm finding, going through the various man pages, e.g., run, rum,
urtw, etc., is that many of the cards listed are fairly old.  For example,
the Asus USB-N13 is supported, but only in version A1.  B&H had the card in
stock, including a used one for $12.00, but after skating over, bringing
the laptop, it turned out that both the used and the new one were version
B1, which is not supported.  (They were very nice there, they allowed me to
try, despite what I'd seen on BSD forums, take the used one out of the box
which will mean more work for them wrapping the plastic back, and try it on
my laptop.)

So, firstly, 10 RELEASE should be out within a few months, so I could be
patient, but as my wife, who teaches dance to children frequently tells me,
I have less restraint than some of her creative movement students (who are
Kindergarten or pre-Kindergarten age.)

I like the Buffalo one that I linked because of it's small form factor, but
if no one has tried that, has anyone tried one that definitely worked for
them that is still available?  I don't want to spend much over $20.00, and
would prefer the small form factor.  After 10 hits RELEASE, I'll probably
wind up offering it as a known to work USB wireless on this list.  :)

So, TL;DR

Has anyone tried the Buffalo WLI-UC-GNM as a USB wireless and found it to
work?  
Does anyone have a USB wireless that they have found to work that is still
readily available for not much more than $20.00?

Thanks for any input.


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From bcallah at devio.us  Sun Sep  8 16:51:14 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 16:51:14 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>

On 9/8/2013 2:43 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> I have a Zenbook, using the AR9485 Atheros card.  Unfortunately, it won't
> be supported until 10 is released.  I've played a bit with CURRENT on this
> machine, but don't have the time or patience right now.
>
> I've tried a few of the options posted by the person who has created the
> driver to get it working on 9.2-RC3 but had no luck, and I don't want to
> spend a lot of time on it at this point.
>
>
> So, my first question, as I like the small form factor, has anyone used one
> of these?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162037
>
> It's a Buffalo WLI-UC-GNM, which does not seem to be specified in man(4)
> run, though a WLI-UC-GN is specified.  Some googling seems to indicate that
> it's supported, though one person was having trouble with it a year ago.
>
> What I'm finding, going through the various man pages, e.g., run, rum,
> urtw, etc., is that many of the cards listed are fairly old.  For example,
> the Asus USB-N13 is supported, but only in version A1.  B&H had the card in
> stock, including a used one for $12.00, but after skating over, bringing
> the laptop, it turned out that both the used and the new one were version
> B1, which is not supported.  (They were very nice there, they allowed me to
> try, despite what I'd seen on BSD forums, take the used one out of the box
> which will mean more work for them wrapping the plastic back, and try it on
> my laptop.)
>
> So, firstly, 10 RELEASE should be out within a few months, so I could be
> patient, but as my wife, who teaches dance to children frequently tells me,
> I have less restraint than some of her creative movement students (who are
> Kindergarten or pre-Kindergarten age.)
>
> I like the Buffalo one that I linked because of it's small form factor, but
> if no one has tried that, has anyone tried one that definitely worked for
> them that is still available?  I don't want to spend much over $20.00, and
> would prefer the small form factor.  After 10 hits RELEASE, I'll probably
> wind up offering it as a known to work USB wireless on this list.  :)
>
> So, TL;DR
>
> Has anyone tried the Buffalo WLI-UC-GNM as a USB wireless and found it to
> work?
> Does anyone have a USB wireless that they have found to work that is still
> readily available for not much more than $20.00?
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
>

Does FreeBSD not have urtwn(4)? I use this on OpenBSD/{macppc,sgi} with 
no problems:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230973235744

If FreeBSD doesn't have urtwn(4) you still have options:

AFAIK, urtw(4) doesn't come in a small form factor; generally they look 
like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALFA-AWUS036H-USB-Wireless-G-WiFi-Adapter-5dBi-Antenna-REALTEK-RTL8187L-/171122065537

Something like this should work ("should" as in I haven't tested it 
myself but the chipset claimed in the ad is supported) with run(4):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ralink-RT3070-802-11n-WiFi-USB-WIRELESS-N-card-adapter-/261117253939
You have to be careful with Ralink as not all chipsets are supported 
(like RT5370, which is disappointing because they're also pretty small).

Though honestly, if this is just a stop-gap for you, I would scour eBay 
for some used dongle I knew was supported and cheap and call it a day.

HTH

~Brian


From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Sun Sep  8 17:00:08 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 17:00:08 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
Message-ID: <20130908210008.GA2304@glenbarber.us>

On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 04:51:14PM -0400, Brian Callahan wrote:
> Does FreeBSD not have urtwn(4)? I use this on OpenBSD/{macppc,sgi}
> with no problems:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230973235744

urtwn(4) is in head/ as of r153139.

Glen

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From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Sep  8 17:19:48 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 17:19:48 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <20130908210008.GA2304@glenbarber.us>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us> <20130908210008.GA2304@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <20130908211948.GC26234@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 05:00:08PM -0400, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 04:51:14PM -0400, Brian Callahan wrote:
> > Does FreeBSD not have urtwn(4)? I use this on OpenBSD/{macppc,sgi}
> > with no problems:
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/230973235744
> 
> urtwn(4) is in head/ as of r153139.

Yes, the thing is, that once head becomes RELEASE, I'm fine with the
built-in card.  :)  

Thanks for confirming what I'd thought, (see my other response).



-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Sep  8 17:19:53 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 17:19:53 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
Message-ID: <20130908211953.GD26234@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 04:51:14PM -0400, Brian Callahan wrote:
> On 9/8/2013 2:43 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:


> >I have a Zenbook, using the AR9485 Atheros card.  Unfortunately, it won't
> >be supported until 10 is released.  I've played a bit with CURRENT on this
> >machine, but don't have the time or patience right now.
> >
> >So, TL;DR
> >
> >Has anyone tried the Buffalo WLI-UC-GNM as a USB wireless and found it to
> >work?
> >Does anyone have a USB wireless that they have found to work that is still
> >readily available for not much more than $20.00?
> >
> >Thanks for any input.
> >
> >
> 
> Does FreeBSD not have urtwn(4)? I use this on OpenBSD/{macppc,sgi}
> with no problems:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230973235744

I _think_ it's getting ported over to 10, but I'm not sure.  Out of the
adapters I've been checking, I've forgotten which it is, but there was
another USB adapter (or more than one--I've been researching for a couple
of days now, though not intensively, and have lost track) that are
supported in OpenBSD (which won't install on this Zenbook for whatever
reason--or it will install, but crashes on first boot) that are getting
ported over, but at present are only in HEAD.  

> 
> If FreeBSD doesn't have urtwn(4) you still have options:
> 
> AFAIK, urtw(4) doesn't come in a small form factor; generally they
> look like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALFA-AWUS036H-USB-Wireless-G-WiFi-Adapter-5dBi-Antenna-REALTEK-RTL8187L-/171122065537
> 
> Something like this should work ("should" as in I haven't tested it
> myself but the chipset claimed in the ad is supported) with run(4):
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ralink-RT3070-802-11n-WiFi-USB-WIRELESS-N-card-adapter-/261117253939
> You have to be careful with Ralink as not all chipsets are supported
> (like RT5370, which is disappointing because they're also pretty
> small).
> 
> Though honestly, if this is just a stop-gap for you, I would scour
> eBay for some used dongle I knew was supported and cheap and call it
> a day.

Best idea.  At present, I also threw a small FreeBSD install on a
VirtualBox running on a minimal Fedora, so I can go with that for now as
well.  
> 
> HTH

It does, thank you.  I might just go with that ebay one, and if it's not
supported, well, I've lost 10 dollars.  Sigh, now I'll spend the rest of
the day wondering if I should buy the one that you've found.  And many
thanks for doing the ebay check for me.


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Mon Sep  9 01:16:34 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:16:34 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <20130908211840.GB26234@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
 <20130908211840.GB26234@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <20130909051634.GA8559@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 05:18:40PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote:
> 
> 
> > >I have a Zenbook, using the AR9485 Atheros card.  Unfortunately, it won't
> > >be supported until 10 is released.  I've played a bit with CURRENT on this
> > >machine, but don't have the time or patience right now.

Well, the upshot was that I gave CURRENT another shot. I'm not sure what
went wrong last time, but previously, various ports that I frequently use
didn't compile, and this time they did.  So, as this is a light use
machine, I can just leave this working version of CURRENT in place till it
becomes a release.  

Thanks to those who responded.

Sincerely,

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Mon Sep  9 01:25:42 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:25:42 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <20130909051634.GA8559@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
 <20130908211840.GB26234@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20130909051634.GA8559@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <20130909052542.GD2343@glenbarber.us>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 01:16:34AM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 08, 2013 at 05:18:40PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > > >I have a Zenbook, using the AR9485 Atheros card.  Unfortunately, it won't
> > > >be supported until 10 is released.  I've played a bit with CURRENT on this
> > > >machine, but don't have the time or patience right now.
> 
> Well, the upshot was that I gave CURRENT another shot. I'm not sure what
> went wrong last time, but previously, various ports that I frequently use
> didn't compile, and this time they did.  So, as this is a light use
> machine, I can just leave this working version of CURRENT in place till it
> becomes a release.  
> 

Did you file reports about the parts that did not work?

How else do you think -CURRENT becomes a -RELEASE without valuable
testing and problem reports?  :-)

Glen

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From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Mon Sep  9 07:54:21 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 07:54:21 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] USB wireless for FreeBSD 9.x
In-Reply-To: <20130909052542.GD2343@glenbarber.us>
References: <20130908184355.GA23599@scott1.scottro.net>
 <522CE342.7020506@devio.us>
 <20130908211840.GB26234@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20130909051634.GA8559@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20130909052542.GD2343@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <20130909115421.GC14523@scott1.scottro.net>

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 01:25:42AM -0400, Glen Barber wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 01:16:34AM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote:


> > Well, the upshot was that I gave CURRENT another shot. I'm not sure what
> > went wrong last time, but previously, various ports that I frequently use
> > didn't compile, and this time they did.  So, as this is a light use
> > machine, I can just leave this working version of CURRENT in place till it
> > becomes a release.  
> > 
> 
> Did you file reports about the parts that did not work?

No, because I couldn't duplicate it. These were ports by the way, not the
system itself, specifically hunspell, which was making firefox fail, and so
on. 
> 

> How else do you think -CURRENT becomes a -RELEASE without valuable
> testing and problem reports?  :-)

I agree in principle, and in the past have been diligent about filing
PR's.  I've always made sure I could duplicate the issue though.
and this seemed to be specific to one, or at most two,
installs.  (Firefox failed twice) but at that point, I'd been playing
around with so many other things on the machine that I must have done
something--or maybe I just built from a bad snapshot.  

The one that worked without effort was installed from the latest CURRENT
snapshot, the one from the 7th.  The one that failed was from the 31st. 

Regardless, you make a valid point, and I did consider filing a PR,
but couldn't duplicate it on a quickly done VM, so didn't do so.
In addition, the fact that these are two very commonly used programs and I
couldn't find anything on google made me figure that it was one of those
annoying Just Me(TM) issues.


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Sep 11 09:51:29 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:51:29 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
Message-ID: <52307561.2020000@ceetonetechnology.com>

This is from the FBSD ARM list.. .may be of interest to some people on
this list.

g


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:25:06 +0100
From: Andrew Wafaa <Andrew.Wafaa at arm.com>
To: arm at freebsd.org <arm at freebsd.org>

To all those interested,

ARM have finally published the reference manual for ARMv8 \o/ You can
grab a copy [0] now, you will need to accept the EULA first.

Regards,

Andy

0 -
http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html


--
Andrew Wafaa - Principal Engineer, Open Source - ARM Ltd.
Tel: +44 1223 405981 Mob: +44 7974 074546



-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
the information in any medium.  Thank you.

ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1
9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2548782

_______________________________________________
freebsd-arm at freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"




From bcallah at devio.us  Wed Sep 11 10:17:15 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:17:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
In-Reply-To: <52307561.2020000@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52307561.2020000@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <52307B6B.1010004@devio.us>

On 9/11/2013 9:51 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> This is from the FBSD ARM list.. .may be of interest to some people on
> this list.
>
> g

Hot on the heels of this announcement, here's how Linus feels about ARM 
SoC developers:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/11/torvalds_suggests_poison_and_sabotage_for_arm_soc_designers/

(totally no bias from me...)

>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:25:06 +0100
> From: Andrew Wafaa <Andrew.Wafaa at arm.com>
> To: arm at freebsd.org <arm at freebsd.org>
>
> To all those interested,
>
> ARM have finally published the reference manual for ARMv8 \o/ You can
> grab a copy [0] now, you will need to accept the EULA first.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> 0 -
> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html
>
>
> --
> Andrew Wafaa - Principal Engineer, Open Source - ARM Ltd.
> Tel: +44 1223 405981 Mob: +44 7974 074546
>
>
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
> the information in any medium.  Thank you.
>
> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
> Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2557590
> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1
> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2548782
>
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-arm at freebsd.org mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Sep 11 10:33:21 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:33:21 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
Message-ID: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>


On September 11, 2013 10:17:15 AM EDT, Brian Callahan 
<bcallah at devio.us> wrote:

> On 9/11/2013 9:51 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> This is from the FBSD ARM list.. .may be of interest to some people on
>> this list.
>>
>> g
>
> Hot on the heels of this announcement, here's how Linus feels about 
> ARM SoC developers:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/11/torvalds_suggests_poison_and_sabotage_for_arm_soc_designers/
>
> (totally no bias from me...)
>

Well, I guess that opens the door wide for more businesses to adopt 
*BSD on ARM, as the "internet of things" becomes more of a thing.

With that, sorry to shift the conversation sideways, but I see a few 
big-picture roadblocks:

- General USB support for various ARM hardwares.  Sore spot, I know- 
but it's a pretty serious blocker for *BSD to take off in the emerging 
maker/builder/application ARM community.

- General *solid* Ethernet support for various ARM hardwares.  It's 
simply no good to deploy, and have the nic jam up.

I know these are problems because of cost- inexpensive hw is not 
quality, as well as being a moving target.  (My comments come after my 
*very light* tinkering with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on arm- and years and 
years of soekris/pcengines fun...)

--
What can non OS-developers (like myself) do to help these two issues along?

Best,
.ike



>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:25:06 +0100
>> From: Andrew Wafaa <Andrew.Wafaa at arm.com>
>> To: arm at freebsd.org <arm at freebsd.org>
>>
>> To all those interested,
>>
>> ARM have finally published the reference manual for ARMv8 \o/ You can
>> grab a copy [0] now, you will need to accept the EULA first.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> 0 -
>> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Wafaa - Principal Engineer, Open Source - ARM Ltd.
>> Tel: +44 1223 405981 Mob: +44 7974 074546
>>
>>
>>
>> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
>> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
>> the information in any medium.  Thank you.
>>
>> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
>> Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2557590
>> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1
>> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2548782
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> freebsd-arm at freebsd.org mailing list
>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>




From bcallah at devio.us  Wed Sep 11 10:43:43 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:43:43 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
In-Reply-To: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <5230819F.1080906@devio.us>


On 09/11/13 10:33, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>
> On September 11, 2013 10:17:15 AM EDT, Brian Callahan 
> <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
>
>> On 9/11/2013 9:51 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>> This is from the FBSD ARM list.. .may be of interest to some people on
>>> this list.
>>>
>>> g
>>
>> Hot on the heels of this announcement, here's how Linus feels about 
>> ARM SoC developers:
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/11/torvalds_suggests_poison_and_sabotage_for_arm_soc_designers/ 
>>
>>
>> (totally no bias from me...)
>>
>
> Well, I guess that opens the door wide for more businesses to adopt 
> *BSD on ARM, as the "internet of things" becomes more of a thing.
>
> With that, sorry to shift the conversation sideways, but I see a few 
> big-picture roadblocks:
>
> - General USB support for various ARM hardwares.  Sore spot, I know- 
> but it's a pretty serious blocker for *BSD to take off in the emerging 
> maker/builder/application ARM community.
>
> - General *solid* Ethernet support for various ARM hardwares. It's 
> simply no good to deploy, and have the nic jam up.
>
> I know these are problems because of cost- inexpensive hw is not 
> quality, as well as being a moving target.  (My comments come after my 
> *very light* tinkering with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on arm- and years and 
> years of soekris/pcengines fun...)
>
> -- 
> What can non OS-developers (like myself) do to help these two issues 
> along?
>

* Documentation, documentation, documentation (almost certainly why some 
devices are supported while others have no interest)
* Test everything, and I mean everything, if you have a supported board. 
Detailed bug reports are awesome. (+patches if you can)
* Get new hardware into the hands of *BSD developers with an interest in 
ARM.

> Best,
> .ike
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:25:06 +0100
>>> From: Andrew Wafaa <Andrew.Wafaa at arm.com>
>>> To: arm at freebsd.org <arm at freebsd.org>
>>>
>>> To all those interested,
>>>
>>> ARM have finally published the reference manual for ARMv8 \o/ You can
>>> grab a copy [0] now, you will need to accept the EULA first.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> 0 -
>>> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Andrew Wafaa - Principal Engineer, Open Source - ARM Ltd.
>>> Tel: +44 1223 405981 Mob: +44 7974 074546
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>>> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
>>> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
>>> the information in any medium.  Thank you.
>>>
>>> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
>>> Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2557590
>>> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1
>>> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2548782
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> freebsd-arm at freebsd.org mailing list
>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>



From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Sep 11 13:34:48 2013
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:34:48 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
In-Reply-To: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CACs0eVSnP2+ejnLUezzSuTGSMrWi=jvRNtxmhRmJqCpHBwnASg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Isaac (.ike) Levy
<ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
>
> On September 11, 2013 10:17:15 AM EDT, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/11/2013 9:51 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>
>>> This is from the FBSD ARM list.. .may be of interest to some people on
>>> this list.
>>>
>>> g
>>
>>
>> Hot on the heels of this announcement, here's how Linus feels about ARM
>> SoC developers:
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/11/torvalds_suggests_poison_and_sabotage_for_arm_soc_designers/
>>
>> (totally no bias from me...)
>>
>
> Well, I guess that opens the door wide for more businesses to adopt *BSD on
> ARM, as the "internet of things" becomes more of a thing.

His rant is about hardware designers, not really what's running on top
of them.  While *BSD on them is interesting, Linux barely runs on
these things for similar reasons- it's a crap shoot.  Businesses care
about running their own (heavily) modified version of whatever OS they
choose to (barely) run the crap they've created - they don't entirely
care about the ecosystem.

> With that, sorry to shift the conversation sideways, but I see a few
> big-picture roadblocks:
>
> - General USB support for various ARM hardwares.  Sore spot, I know- but
> it's a pretty serious blocker for *BSD to take off in the emerging
> maker/builder/application ARM community.
>
> - General *solid* Ethernet support for various ARM hardwares.  It's simply
> no good to deploy, and have the nic jam up.
>
> I know these are problems because of cost- inexpensive hw is not quality, as
> well as being a moving target.  (My comments come after my *very light*
> tinkering with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on arm- and years and years of
> soekris/pcengines fun...)
>
> --
> What can non OS-developers (like myself) do to help these two issues along?
>
> Best,
> .ike
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: ARM Architecture Reference Manual availability
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:25:06 +0100
>>> From: Andrew Wafaa <Andrew.Wafaa at arm.com>
>>> To: arm at freebsd.org <arm at freebsd.org>
>>>
>>> To all those interested,
>>>
>>> ARM have finally published the reference manual for ARMv8 \o/ You can
>>> grab a copy [0] now, you will need to accept the EULA first.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> 0 -
>>>
>>> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Wafaa - Principal Engineer, Open Source - ARM Ltd.
>>> Tel: +44 1223 405981 Mob: +44 7974 074546
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>>> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
>>> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
>>> the information in any medium.  Thank you.
>>>
>>> ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
>>> Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2557590
>>> ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1
>>> 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No:  2548782
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> freebsd-arm at freebsd.org mailing list
>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe at freebsd.org"
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Wed Sep 11 13:42:43 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:42:43 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVSnP2+ejnLUezzSuTGSMrWi=jvRNtxmhRmJqCpHBwnASg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
 <CACs0eVSnP2+ejnLUezzSuTGSMrWi=jvRNtxmhRmJqCpHBwnASg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HsxQz0E-w44nyqz6jYTAwFhuT_Vw8k3LJSw_ztgUFvwEjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Very few of the decision makers in these businesses consider that being
'ecosystem' friendly might improve their sales, most of them concentrate on
getting to market as soon as they can, with whatever crapware they can put
on top to make it work 'well enough' to sell.

In their defense, this is the current nature of 'the game' and most
companies don't have resources to play nice with others.

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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Sep 11 22:04:45 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:04:45 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: ARM Architecture Reference Manual
	availability
In-Reply-To: <CADn+HsxQz0E-w44nyqz6jYTAwFhuT_Vw8k3LJSw_ztgUFvwEjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201309111433.r8BEXLra002839@rs101.luxsci.com>
 <CACs0eVSnP2+ejnLUezzSuTGSMrWi=jvRNtxmhRmJqCpHBwnASg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADn+HsxQz0E-w44nyqz6jYTAwFhuT_Vw8k3LJSw_ztgUFvwEjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5231213D.9020808@nomadlogic.org>

On 09/11/2013 10:42 AM, Brian Coca wrote:
> Very few of the decision makers in these businesses consider that being
> 'ecosystem' friendly might improve their sales, most of them concentrate
> on getting to market as soon as they can, with whatever crapware they
> can put on top to make it work 'well enough' to sell.
>
> In their defense, this is the current nature of 'the game' and most
> companies don't have resources to play nice with others.
>

while i tend to agree with most of your argument, but i'd offer this 
counterpoint.  in my dealings with hardware vendors, and the engineers 
doing the actual work, is that they target an OS for much the same 
reasons "normal" people do:

- they are comfortable with OS to begin with
- it is well documented and easy to extend for their purposes
- it has a license that allows them to extend as they see fit.

i think that is why i have seen netbsd and freebsd pop up in a 
surprising amount of embedded systems of late.

in fact i was just working with a dev (who is based in silicon valley 
and india) who does his FPGA work on freebsd, but has to support linux 
due to business cases of his endusers.  we had a good laugh about that 
actually...

-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Thu Sep 12 07:40:12 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 11:40:12 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
	encryption: has it's time come?
Message-ID: <201309121140.r8CBeC11010580@rs101.luxsci.com>


Morning All,

It appears more likely that ECC standards were backdoored by the NSA, 
with NIST involvement (or lack thereof?).

I hate to re-post slashdot, but the summary is concise:
http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/09/11/1224252/are-the-nist-standard-elliptic-curves-back-doored

The trick, it seems, is in some random seed numbers which aren't random 
at all:
"The random numbers in these curve parameters were supposed to be 
selected via a "verifiably random" process...
Unfortunately it turns out the actual inputs used were opaque 256 bit 
numbers, chosen ad-hoc with no justifications provided."

Good times.

--
If anyone sees relevant updates to this ongoing issue, please feel free 
to post to this thread!

Best,
.ike




From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Thu Sep 12 08:20:00 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 08:20:00 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <201309121140.r8CBeC11010580@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201309121140.r8CBeC11010580@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>

I was surprised when the elliptical curve crypto started to be adopted as
many have fought against it for years, specially the NSA.  For a while I
thought it was both ignorance and 'anti-DJB sentiment', now it seems they
were just waiting to get a shoe into breaking it.

I suspect the same thing happened with dnscurve (fixes dnssec's big
vulnerability on the initial request), but I don't expect adoption to now
soar.
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Fri Sep 13 09:08:10 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:08:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
	encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

All<br/>  I see you compromised ec rant and raise you a trojened random number generator . Here is the missing part of how to predict the entropy .  So I'd bet there is a way we can test for this , but should we even bother ?  Why hide when you just look uninteresting ? <br/><br/>http://m.slashdot.org/story/191549<br/><br/>
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From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 10:17:44 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:17:44 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>

Sooo ... now I have to keep everything in my head to keep it safe? ... oh
wait, they are working on that
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-scans-reveal-dogs-thoughts
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Sep 13 10:38:15 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:38:15 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>

Brian Coca:
> Sooo ... now I have to keep everything in my head to keep it safe? ... oh
> wait, they are working on that
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-scans-reveal-dogs-thoughts

Don't worry, DARPA is working on breaking that too.

The operational question to me that we should really cover is: what
changes are you doing now individually and in organizations?

There is a real fear running up everyone's backs whether they admit it
or not.  Whether 3-letter government agencies (3LGAs) are an adversary
or not is secondary.  *Someone* can break/mitm/compromise/whatever.

So throwing it back to list...

What have you changed?

What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
influenced by you?

Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....

In NYC*BUG, we have reverted to rlogin/ftp/telnet, since we have given up.

;)

g



From mark.saad at ymail.com  Fri Sep 13 10:41:59 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:41:59 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NbP1+vMP5NPss901P0zWfB3RvcUn3oho-a8ay6ccS4+sQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Brian Coca <briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> Sooo ... now I have to keep everything in my head to keep it safe? ... oh
> wait, they are working on that
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-scans-reveal-dogs-thoughts
>
>
Well let me say, I am not advocating tin foil hat usage ( not sure if that
blocks the brain scans or not), nor am I saying abandon crypto. However if
you are in arms race sometimes the best way to win is to let the other side
thing you have given up.
-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 10:49:32 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:49:32 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NbP1+vMP5NPss901P0zWfB3RvcUn3oho-a8ay6ccS4+sQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbP1+vMP5NPss901P0zWfB3RvcUn3oho-a8ay6ccS4+sQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HsxLb83ELwyUXcH_dO4mQSM2eXDXypVAybns3RwaHcpXWQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think good practices should still help you in cases like this, specially
if don't rely on a single technology, this is why I run a pf AND iptables
firewalls (behind the corporate cisco).

A tin foil hat alone isn't enough, but eat enough lead paint and your brain
is sure to be secure!!
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From okan at demirmen.com  Fri Sep 13 10:58:39 2013
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 10:58:39 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:38 AM, George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> Brian Coca:
>> Sooo ... now I have to keep everything in my head to keep it safe? ... oh
>> wait, they are working on that
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-scans-reveal-dogs-thoughts
>
> Don't worry, DARPA is working on breaking that too.
>
> The operational question to me that we should really cover is: what
> changes are you doing now individually and in organizations?
>
> There is a real fear running up everyone's backs whether they admit it
> or not.  Whether 3-letter government agencies (3LGAs) are an adversary
> or not is secondary.  *Someone* can break/mitm/compromise/whatever.
>
> So throwing it back to list...
>
> What have you changed?
>
> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
> influenced by you?

Zero.

> Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
> office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....

Nothing new.

> In NYC*BUG, we have reverted to rlogin/ftp/telnet, since we have given up.

and the root password is derivable from 8 letters used in a word in
this sentence.


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Sep 13 11:13:49 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:13:49 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] ARMv6 FreeBSD pkgng repo
Message-ID: <52332BAD.9050505@ceetonetechnology.com>

The old repo on mirrors.nycbug.org was too dated since the pkgs were
built pre-EABI support and pre-Clang.

We now have new builds and the pkgs are once again workable on CURRENT
with pkgng.

Obviously, this makes life easier for those using FreeBSD on armv6 with
Raspberry Pis, BeagleBones, etc.

Just add the following to your /usr/local/etc/pkg.conf file:

PACKAGESITE	: http://mirrors.nycbug.org/pub/FreeBSD_ARM/pkg/

Ping me off list if there's any issues... or any (simple) pkg requests.

We'll keep this operational more or less until the FreeBSD project has
their arm pkg repo back online.

Side note, these are all built natively on an RPi and BBone, not with
poudriere or in qemu... it's being kept simple.

g


From billtotman at billtotman.com  Fri Sep 13 13:54:11 2013
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (Bill Totman)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:54:11 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CE58C933.F277%billtotman@billtotman.com>

On 9/13/13 10:38 AM, "George Rosamond" <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:


>Brian Coca:
>> Sooo ... now I have to keep everything in my head to keep it safe? ...
>>oh
>> wait, they are working on that
>> 
>>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brain-scans-reveal-dogs
>>-thoughts
>
>Don't worry, DARPA is working on breaking that too.
>
>The operational question to me that we should really cover is: what
>changes are you doing now individually and in organizations?
>
>There is a real fear running up everyone's backs whether they admit it
>or not.  Whether 3-letter government agencies (3LGAs) are an adversary
>or not is secondary.  *Someone* can break/mitm/compromise/whatever.
>
>So throwing it back to list...
>
>What have you changed?
>
>What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>influenced by you?
>
>Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
>office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....
>
>In NYC*BUG, we have reverted to rlogin/ftp/telnet, since we have given up.

Way to blow our security-through-obscurity initiative, George.

-bt

>
>;)
>
>g
>
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Sep 13 14:00:05 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 11:00:05 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org>

On 09/13/2013 07:58 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:

>> So throwing it back to list...
>>
>> What have you changed?
>>
>> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>> influenced by you?
>
> Zero.

same here - although the incompetent IT department at my day-job is not 
insisting on not allowing encrypted IM's because..."compliance".  so 
that's awesome.

>
>> Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
>> office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....
>
> Nothing new.
>

same here, i think being a practical paranoid has prepped me for this 
inevitable day where it's known that telecomunications is an inherently 
unsafe communication medium.  as is anything that requires 3rd party trust.

-pete




-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Sep 13 14:52:39 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 14:52:39 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>

Pete Wright:
> On 09/13/2013 07:58 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
> 
>>> So throwing it back to list...
>>>
>>> What have you changed?
>>>
>>> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>>> influenced by you?
>>
>> Zero.
> 
> same here - although the incompetent IT department at my day-job is not
> insisting on not allowing encrypted IM's because..."compliance".  so
> that's awesome.

I have some technical clients who are very conscious of the fact that
there has been a shift for non-technical people.

The argument that privacy has to be designed, as opposed to being
promises or policy is has reasserted itself.  If a provider *can* access
data of its clients, then there isn't privacy.

Can't find them ATM, but this is a great spot to see useful articles on
the topic, including a lot of stuff on the changes in people's thinking
recently:

https://twitter.com/liberationtech

And LibTech's list is a central place for discussions around this stuff
today.

(hi again Jan!)

> 
>>
>>> Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
>>> office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....
>>
>> Nothing new.
>>
> 
> same here, i think being a practical paranoid has prepped me for this
> inevitable day where it's known that telecomunications is an inherently
> unsafe communication medium.  as is anything that requires 3rd party trust.

Very much the case for me also.  But I am convinced more of our 'tools'
will start accounting for the 'new world' and I'm keeping tabs on that.

Thanks for being relevant Pete.  I shifted this thread for a reason.

g


From spork at bway.net  Fri Sep 13 17:48:12 2013
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:48:12 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
	encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org> <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <3EAF630B-918C-496B-90F3-0D82FA882037@bway.net>


On Sep 13, 2013, at 2:52 PM, George Rosamond wrote:

> Pete Wright:
>> On 09/13/2013 07:58 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>> 
>>>> So throwing it back to list...
>>>> 
>>>> What have you changed?
>>>> 
>>>> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>>>> influenced by you?
>>> 
>>> Zero.
>> 
>> same here - although the incompetent IT department at my day-job is not
>> insisting on not allowing encrypted IM's because..."compliance".  so
>> that's awesome.
> 
> I have some technical clients who are very conscious of the fact that
> there has been a shift for non-technical people.
> 
> The argument that privacy has to be designed, as opposed to being
> promises or policy is has reasserted itself.  If a provider *can* access
> data of its clients, then there isn't privacy.
> 
> Can't find them ATM, but this is a great spot to see useful articles on
> the topic, including a lot of stuff on the changes in people's thinking
> recently:
> 
> https://twitter.com/liberationtech
> 
> And LibTech's list is a central place for discussions around this stuff
> today.
> 
> (hi again Jan!)
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
>>>> office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....
>>> 
>>> Nothing new.
>>> 
>> 
>> same here, i think being a practical paranoid has prepped me for this
>> inevitable day where it's known that telecomunications is an inherently
>> unsafe communication medium.  as is anything that requires 3rd party trust.
> 
> Very much the case for me also.  But I am convinced more of our 'tools'
> will start accounting for the 'new world' and I'm keeping tabs on that.

So NIST is now officially not recommending the use of "Dual_EC_DRBG":

http://www.propublica.org/documents/item/785571-itlbul2013-09-supplemental#document/p2

> 
> Thanks for being relevant Pete.  I shifted this thread for a reason.
> 
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 18:05:21 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 18:05:21 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <3EAF630B-918C-496B-90F3-0D82FA882037@bway.net>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org>
 <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <3EAF630B-918C-496B-90F3-0D82FA882037@bway.net>
Message-ID: <CADn+HsyZ8-XwNgBB1Dg-HDu1djKyUH9mJJpur3gsVrmBaX1S7w@mail.gmail.com>

At this point I would ask if any govt organization would be discouraging a
particular encryption (or randomness generator) cause the NSA cannot crack
it.

It is no fun being paranoid when they ARE out to get you!
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From okan at demirmen.com  Tue Sep 17 09:45:22 2013
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 09:45:22 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org>
 <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CACs0eVTd9hcifVB_Kw21ACa920b+yApDfBm45EFmcHHM30zJ-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> Pete Wright:
>> On 09/13/2013 07:58 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>
>>>> So throwing it back to list...
>>>>
>>>> What have you changed?
>>>>
>>>> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>>>> influenced by you?
>>>
>>> Zero.
>>
>> same here - although the incompetent IT department at my day-job is not
>> insisting on not allowing encrypted IM's because..."compliance".  so
>> that's awesome.
>
> I have some technical clients who are very conscious of the fact that
> there has been a shift for non-technical people.
>
> The argument that privacy has to be designed, as opposed to being
> promises or policy is has reasserted itself.  If a provider *can* access
> data of its clients, then there isn't privacy.

I'm curious to see what sort of shift is real and what is just talk.
Users, mostly non-technical who happen to be the vast majority)
willingly give up privacy for convience.  Why do financial
institutions have online presences when they are so expensive to
build, maintain and protect - for the consumer who has shown the
willingness to drop the bar - financials later win since they can now
save money on the physical side, yet haven't applied any of those
concepts to the virtual - why should they when the public barely asks
for it; the only protections they take are ones for themselves.
Nothing wrong with that.

Take a survey of your non-technical friends and families - what's
really different?  They expect their favorite online shoe store to
suddenly not have the ability to do what exactly?

We talk about "tools" and "technology" fixes; one example: we still
have mysterious sources of SPAM, no?  Don't we have a mail spec that
allows one to trace the origin of an email address being "sold" or
"leaked"?  Yes, we certainly have had that for ages - super duper
simple "tech" fix for an end user....how many times have your friends
and/or family members used it?  Heck, how many online providers even
allow for such email addresses? - why would they want to protect the
user's address if it will bite them in the ass later on???

How many non-tech users read the fine print?  Of course, I barely read
the fine print when I crack open a bottle of soda, but at least I know
what I'm getting into.

I am not saying things will never change, I'm just saying the vast
majority of the internet, which is now a business, doesn't entirely
care.  Users at large are not demanding it; they might want someone
else (ie the service provider they are using) to make changes -
somehow, sometime, but they will not walk away if the provider does
nothing.

Signed,
Mr Negativity

> Can't find them ATM, but this is a great spot to see useful articles on
> the topic, including a lot of stuff on the changes in people's thinking
> recently:
>
> https://twitter.com/liberationtech
>
> And LibTech's list is a central place for discussions around this stuff
> today.
>
> (hi again Jan!)
>
>>
>>>
>>>> Factors of authentication, keys used, additional encryption added,
>>>> office or home Tor, pgp/gpg....
>>>
>>> Nothing new.
>>>
>>
>> same here, i think being a practical paranoid has prepped me for this
>> inevitable day where it's known that telecomunications is an inherently
>> unsafe communication medium.  as is anything that requires 3rd party trust.
>
> Very much the case for me also.  But I am convinced more of our 'tools'
> will start accounting for the 'new world' and I'm keeping tabs on that.
>
> Thanks for being relevant Pete.  I shifted this thread for a reason.
>
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Sep 17 10:58:12 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:58:12 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD SNMP OID Question
Message-ID: <52386E04.5070305@ymail.com>

All
  Can someone shed some light on a OID mystery I have. I am using cacti
to trend some snmp data off a bunch of FreeBSD servers.

I noticed someone added a graph to a cluster for UCDavis - ssRawSwapIn /
UCDavis - ssRawSwapOut  . The OIDs are .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62 /
.1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.63  Their description is  Number of blocks swapped
in / Number of blocks swapped out .

The mystery is the graphs show pages swapping in and out all the time.
However the sysctls for swap usage show no indication of swap being used

# sysctl -a |fgrep -i swap
vm.swap_enabled: 1
vm.nswapdev: 1
vm.swap_async_max: 4
vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10
vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2
vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsout: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsin: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swapout: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swapin: 0
vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0
vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0
vm.swap_idle_enabled: 0

# uptime
 2:51PM  up 203 days, 22:29, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00


# snmpwalk -c MyPassword -v2c -Of server00 .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62.0
.iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.ucdavis.systemStats.ssRawSwapIn.0
= Counter32: 3588



I am using net-snmp-5.4.2.1 on FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64



See *http://net-snmp.sourceforge.net/docs/mibs/ucdavis.html






-- 
Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Sep 17 11:58:28 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:58:28 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] [HEADSUP] Retiring the PC-BSD pkg repo
Message-ID: <52387C24.7010803@ymail.com>

All
  In light of the current pc-bsd pkgng repo being hosted by the cdn
scale engines. We have decided to remove the pkgng repos for PC-BSD from
mirrors.nycbug.org as we can no longer reliably stay in sync with the
upstream masters.

For anyone using our repo as their mirror please update your pkg.conf to
reflect the new pc-bsd approved packagesite.

packagesite:
http://pkg.cdn.pcbsd.org/{9-STABLE,9.1-RELEASE,9.2-RELEASE}/amd64


We will continue to maintain the iso mirror for pc-bsd and hope to keep
this as long as we can.

See also
http://wiki.pcbsd.org/index.php/Turn_FreeBSD_into_PC-BSD%C2%AE

-- 
Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com


From bonsaime at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 13:56:59 2013
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 13:56:59 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD SNMP OID Question
In-Reply-To: <52386E04.5070305@ymail.com>
References: <52386E04.5070305@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJU5ZBOhYdNEsJA4gXQZcMxGGh0NtzPTVDvUH=ipXmA16qs+1w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm also running the same kernel version and arch. But I get a couple more
lines in my grep of sysctl:

$ sysctl -a |fgrep -i swap
1 PART ada1p3 4294967296 512 i 3 o 244813153280 ty freebsd-swap xs GPT xt
516e7cb5-6ecf-11d6-8ff8-00022d09712b
z0xfffffe00087beb00 [shape=box,label="SWAP\nswap\nr#3"];
    <name>SWAP</name>
      <name>swap</name>
        <type>freebsd-swap</type>
vm.swap_enabled: 1
vm.nswapdev: 1
vm.swap_async_max: 4
vm.swap_reserved: 2013835264
vm.swap_total: 4294967296
vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10
vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2
vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsout: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsin: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swapout: 0
vm.stats.vm.v_swapin: 0
vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0
vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0
vm.swap_idle_enabled: 0
$ uname -a
FreeBSD zip 9.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE #0 r243825: Tue Dec  4 09:23:10
UTC 2012     root at farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
amd64


Dunno what the xml is from, not going to look now... but the
vm.swap_reserved/total don't seem to show up in you sysctl output.




On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> All
>   Can someone shed some light on a OID mystery I have. I am using cacti
> to trend some snmp data off a bunch of FreeBSD servers.
>
> I noticed someone added a graph to a cluster for UCDavis - ssRawSwapIn /
> UCDavis - ssRawSwapOut  . The OIDs are .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62 /
> .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.63  Their description is  Number of blocks swapped
> in / Number of blocks swapped out .
>
> The mystery is the graphs show pages swapping in and out all the time.
> However the sysctls for swap usage show no indication of swap being used
>
> # sysctl -a |fgrep -i swap
> vm.swap_enabled: 1
> vm.nswapdev: 1
> vm.swap_async_max: 4
> vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10
> vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2
> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsout: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsin: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swapout: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swapin: 0
> vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0
> vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0
> vm.swap_idle_enabled: 0
>
> # uptime
>  2:51PM  up 203 days, 22:29, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
>
>
> # snmpwalk -c MyPassword -v2c -Of server00 .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62.0
> .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.ucdavis.systemStats.ssRawSwapIn.0
> = Counter32: 3588
>
>
>
> I am using net-snmp-5.4.2.1 on FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64
>
>
>
> See *http://net-snmp.sourceforge.net/docs/mibs/ucdavis.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
-jesse
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Tue Sep 17 14:03:08 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:03:08 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] FreeBSD SNMP OID Question
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBOhYdNEsJA4gXQZcMxGGh0NtzPTVDvUH=ipXmA16qs+1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52386E04.5070305@ymail.com>
 <CAJU5ZBOhYdNEsJA4gXQZcMxGGh0NtzPTVDvUH=ipXmA16qs+1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NaezM4bJYTxgpBHuxbkpJBWcW_7UoixBvx31JjiOAL5Wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm also running the same kernel version and arch. But I get a couple more
> lines in my grep of sysctl:
>
>
> $ sysctl -a |fgrep -i swap
> 1 PART ada1p3 4294967296 512 i 3 o 244813153280 ty freebsd-swap xs GPT xt
> 516e7cb5-6ecf-11d6-8ff8-00022d09712b
> z0xfffffe00087beb00 [shape=box,label="SWAP\nswap\nr#3"];
>     <name>SWAP</name>
>       <name>swap</name>
>         <type>freebsd-swap</type>
>
> vm.swap_enabled: 1
> vm.nswapdev: 1
> vm.swap_async_max: 4
> vm.swap_reserved: 2013835264
> vm.swap_total: 4294967296
>
> vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10
> vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2
> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsout: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsin: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swapout: 0
> vm.stats.vm.v_swapin: 0
> vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0
> vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0
> vm.swap_idle_enabled: 0
> $ uname -a
> FreeBSD zip 9.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE #0 r243825: Tue Dec  4
> 09:23:10 UTC 2012     root at farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
> amd64
>
>
> Dunno what the xml is from, not going to look now... but the
> vm.swap_reserved/total don't seem to show up in you sysctl output.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>
>> All
>>   Can someone shed some light on a OID mystery I have. I am using cacti
>> to trend some snmp data off a bunch of FreeBSD servers.
>>
>> I noticed someone added a graph to a cluster for UCDavis - ssRawSwapIn /
>> UCDavis - ssRawSwapOut  . The OIDs are .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62 /
>> .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.63  Their description is  Number of blocks swapped
>> in / Number of blocks swapped out .
>>
>> The mystery is the graphs show pages swapping in and out all the time.
>> However the sysctls for swap usage show no indication of swap being used
>>
>> # sysctl -a |fgrep -i swap
>> vm.swap_enabled: 1
>> vm.nswapdev: 1
>> vm.swap_async_max: 4
>> vm.swap_idle_threshold2: 10
>> vm.swap_idle_threshold1: 2
>> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsout: 0
>> vm.stats.vm.v_swappgsin: 0
>> vm.stats.vm.v_swapout: 0
>> vm.stats.vm.v_swapin: 0
>> vm.disable_swapspace_pageouts: 0
>> vm.defer_swapspace_pageouts: 0
>> vm.swap_idle_enabled: 0
>>
>> # uptime
>>  2:51PM  up 203 days, 22:29, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
>>
>>
>> # snmpwalk -c MyPassword -v2c -Of server00 .1.3.6.1.4.1.2021.11.62.0
>>
>> .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.ucdavis.systemStats.ssRawSwapIn.0
>> = Counter32: 3588
>>
>>
>>
>> I am using net-snmp-5.4.2.1 on FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64
>>
>>
My mistake this is a 7-STABLE amd64 install not a 9.1-RELEASE. I never got
around to upgrading this install.
All of the 9.x servers also show that xml bit. Not sure exactly what that
is either.


>
>>
>> See *http://net-snmp.sourceforge.net/docs/mibs/ucdavis.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -jesse
>



-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Sep 17 21:31:55 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 21:31:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Elliptic Curve Backdoor? [was] RSA/DSA for
 encryption: has it's time come?
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVTd9hcifVB_Kw21ACa920b+yApDfBm45EFmcHHM30zJ-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+HswkbMYuBxQFRTV_C=njM_teE9o0DH6uAaLYEDrvgKKt6w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1379077690.13204.YahooMailIosMobile@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CADn+HsxZ+roW8L_3_cNN0gqmTTr1SmjKqHDR3HvpELy0LvrJFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52332357.6030907@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVQg-mPZTNJapEUQNuOeYGknK-T7c_M41iDmZuR8UsZj5w@mail.gmail.com>
 <523352A5.4060106@nomadlogic.org> <52335EF7.4080803@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CACs0eVTd9hcifVB_Kw21ACa920b+yApDfBm45EFmcHHM30zJ-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5239028B.1030506@ceetonetechnology.com>

Okan Demirmen:
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, George Rosamond
> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>> Pete Wright:
>>> On 09/13/2013 07:58 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>>
>>>>> So throwing it back to list...
>>>>>
>>>>> What have you changed?
>>>>>
>>>>> What changes have taken place in your organization, whether or not
>>>>> influenced by you?
>>>>
>>>> Zero.
>>>
>>> same here - although the incompetent IT department at my day-job is not
>>> insisting on not allowing encrypted IM's because..."compliance".  so
>>> that's awesome.
>>
>> I have some technical clients who are very conscious of the fact that
>> there has been a shift for non-technical people.
>>
>> The argument that privacy has to be designed, as opposed to being
>> promises or policy is has reasserted itself.  If a provider *can* access
>> data of its clients, then there isn't privacy.
> 
> I'm curious to see what sort of shift is real and what is just talk.
> Users, mostly non-technical who happen to be the vast majority)
> willingly give up privacy for convience.  Why do financial
> institutions have online presences when they are so expensive to
> build, maintain and protect - for the consumer who has shown the
> willingness to drop the bar - financials later win since they can now
> save money on the physical side, yet haven't applied any of those
> concepts to the virtual - why should they when the public barely asks
> for it; the only protections they take are ones for themselves.
> Nothing wrong with that.

I took some time to reply to this email... you're hitting the core of
the question: what *is* the net effect, at the end of the day.

End users?  Do some web searching... the articles are out there.  Some
are surveys (vague, shallow polling, really) which point to habit and
perception changes.

But you can't ignore the larger 'policy' shifts... whether governments
or organizations.

There has been some significant rifts in Congress.  No, I don't follow
it closely, and don't find it meaningful, but I will say, such a series
of harsh votes reflects something larger in society.

Brazil's initiatives are enormous, plus the obvious geo-political
push-backs from lots of governments, whether they actually mean it or
not.  I mean, if the Mexican government goes ballistic about some of the
Snowden disclosures, you don't think it has an impact on the population
there?

And then we have some vendors, who while not uber-popular, are certainly
known by a layer of the population: Lavabit's shutdown, and Silent
Circle's cessation of their email service.

Look at the fear in the US cloud space from non-US entities.  You don't
think that's a shift?

> 
> Take a survey of your non-technical friends and families - what's
> really different?  They expect their favorite online shoe store to
> suddenly not have the ability to do what exactly?
> 

Well, while I love using a mom-o-meter, anecdotes aren't the full picture.

I do note, conversation-wise, I've had some revealing discussions.  Many
in technology weren't surprised by many of the earlier disclosures.  We
knew that level of surveillance *could* happen, and when there's a way,
well, a large 3-letter government agency will find a way.  Then we know
Echeleon, Carnivore, the impact of the USA Patriot Act on online service
providers, etc.

But before the disclosures, how far did you actually discussing these
things, without sounding creepy?

Now the most non-technical people around have this embedded in their
consciousness.  It's there.  Scratch and you'll find it.

> We talk about "tools" and "technology" fixes; one example: we still
> have mysterious sources of SPAM, no?  Don't we have a mail spec that
> allows one to trace the origin of an email address being "sold" or
> "leaked"?  Yes, we certainly have had that for ages - super duper
> simple "tech" fix for an end user....how many times have your friends
> and/or family members used it?  Heck, how many online providers even
> allow for such email addresses? - why would they want to protect the
> user's address if it will bite them in the ass later on???

Oh, yes, the market.  Well, that's the direction that goes into.  The
reality is that online service providers will not face a brick wall with
privacy-concerned consumers, but there may very well some online service
providers that start doing things different.  The recent Google Voice
auth changes, despite the obvious irony.

I will bet that in the next few months, it won't be about a wave of
principled shutdowns a la Lavabit, as much as authentication changes in
many online systems that were considered hindrances before.

There is a significant shift in privacy enhancing tools.  The number of
Tor relays has gone through the ceiling over the past few months.  It's
huge.  Look at metrics.torproject.org.

> 
> How many non-tech users read the fine print?  Of course, I barely read
> the fine print when I crack open a bottle of soda, but at least I know
> what I'm getting into.

No one does.  Look for that Carnegie Mellon study on the years it would
take someone to read all the convoluted and frankly irrelevant privacy
policies they encounter on a daily basis.

> 
> I am not saying things will never change, I'm just saying the vast
> majority of the internet, which is now a business, doesn't entirely
> care.  Users at large are not demanding it; they might want someone
> else (ie the service provider they are using) to make changes -
> somehow, sometime, but they will not walk away if the provider does
> nothing.
> 

Well, I argued pretty hard how they had changed above, and we've had the
discussion offline a bit too.

But I am convinced that there will increasing shifts in how online
service providers do things, more messiness in the clouds, and some
vendors will begin to brag about their privacy measures.

Go ask people at Duck Duck Go about their dramatic usage stat changes.
I am not arguing they are a valid solution, but it certainly does
reflect something very real.

> Signed,
> Mr Negativity

It's fine to be critical and even pessimistic.  But if you add blind to
it by not seeing the streams of articles in policy-focused web sites
(say, Foreign Policy), the uncomfortable rationalization of the
marketing people (yeah, stop the NSA... but *we're* different), etc,
then you're missing the larger trends.

<snip>

g and his $0.03



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Sun Sep 22 10:17:39 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 10:17:39 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Maker Faire Today - a few embedded boards
Message-ID: <1379859482-710685.96063372.fr8MEHTIh021281@rs149.luxsci.com>

Hi All,

My first time at Maker Faire in Queens yesterday was a blast, some relevant things to post here.

Along with a massive "Learn to Solder" booth- (oriented toward kids) there were loads of robots, construction kits and systems, aerial robotics/quadricopters, tons of 3d printers, there were also tons of bizarre independent vendors for embedded computers.  The EFF had a booth, the NY TOOL chapter was doing their thing, all good stuff.  Apparently, the world of Aurduino is diversifying out to UNIX capable hardware- and massive expansion, on more powerful embedded computers.

If your'e thinking of heading out to Maker Faire today, I think these booths will be of interest to NYC*BUG folks:

--
UDOO

http://www.udoo.org/
A new ARM board company from Italy- it's analog/digital pinout matches the Arduino, to take advantage of using Arduino shields- graphics card on board, etc?

George R. and I spent some time Speaking to their developers about *BSD, about compilers, etc?  They brought one relevant thing- an ARM standard.

http://www.secoqseven.com/
http://www.qseven-standard.org/
interesting list of boards,
http://www.qseven-standard.org/index.php?id=43

An ARM hardware standard?  I'd be interested to hear people's feedback on this.  Anything that makes it less cumbersome to develop for an architecture is good, no?

--
CHIPKIT

http://chipkit.net/
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=CHIPKIT-UNO32

MIPS based embedded boards, again, pinouts to fit Arduino shields, apparently focused on being *tiny*.

--
MINNOWBOARD

http://minnowboard.org/
The shiny new intel board- they've got some to look at, and one driving a tabletop robotic arm.

--
MY FAVORITE

Unrelated to UNIX, I was delighted to find a Gieger Counter which plugs into an iPhone/iPad:
http://www.radiation-watch.org/

It's amazing that they produced a useful Gieger Counter for less than $50.
(I think this guy sold out yesterday).

Best,
.ike





From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 23 12:02:55 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:02:55 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Maker Faire Today - a few embedded boards
In-Reply-To: <1379859482-710685.96063372.fr8MEHTIh021281@rs149.luxsci.com>
References: <1379859482-710685.96063372.fr8MEHTIh021281@rs149.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <5240662F.7080504@ceetonetechnology.com>

Isaac (.ike) Levy:
> Hi All,
> 
> My first time at Maker Faire in Queens yesterday was a blast, some
> relevant things to post here.
> 
> Along with a massive "Learn to Solder" booth- (oriented toward kids)
> there were loads of robots, construction kits and systems, aerial
> robotics/quadricopters, tons of 3d printers, there were also tons of
> bizarre independent vendors for embedded computers.  The EFF had a
> booth, the NY TOOL chapter was doing their thing, all good stuff.
> Apparently, the world of Aurduino is diversifying out to UNIX capable
> hardware- and massive expansion, on more powerful embedded
> computers.

"TOOOL"

Arduino?  Very much... the shields have been part of things since the
beginning, but blinky/blink or "hello, world" only goes so far.

> 
> If your'e thinking of heading out to Maker Faire today, I think these
> booths will be of interest to NYC*BUG folks:
> 
> -- UDOO
> 
> http://www.udoo.org/ A new ARM board company from Italy- it's
> analog/digital pinout matches the Arduino, to take advantage of using
> Arduino shields- graphics card on board, etc?
> 
> George R. and I spent some time Speaking to their developers about
> *BSD, about compilers, etc?  They brought one relevant thing- an ARM
> standard.
> 
> http://www.secoqseven.com/ http://www.qseven-standard.org/ 
> interesting list of boards, 
> http://www.qseven-standard.org/index.php?id=43
> 
> An ARM hardware standard?  I'd be interested to hear people's
> feedback on this.  Anything that makes it less cumbersome to develop
> for an architecture is good, no?
> 

Definitely.  It's "just another arm board" in some ways, but not in
others.  There seems to be a race to have better specs though (CPU, RAM,
gigabit NICs), not cheaper.

GNN: they are the ones I mentioned.. seems like cross-architecture
compatibility hell is quite broad and deep, and their interest was
piqued by the Clang and PCC mentions.

> -- CHIPKIT
> 
> http://chipkit.net/ 
> http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=CHIPKIT-UNO32
> 
> MIPS based embedded boards, again, pinouts to fit Arduino shields,
> apparently focused on being *tiny*.
> 

So they are one of the manufacturers of retrobsd.org compat boards.
Interestingly, they will be releasing a board comparable to the RPi, but
MIPS.

> -- MINNOWBOARD
> 
> http://minnowboard.org/ The shiny new intel board- they've got some
> to look at, and one driving a tabletop robotic arm.

At $200 it's sort of out of the RPi space, but it's also a refreshingly
honest release by Intel.  Nice specs, like a lot of mini-ITX sort of boards.

A late response to the surge of RPi and arm boards, but will x86 become
relevant in this space again?

I'm still wondering about *who* they imagine using it.  Do the same
people want a gigabit NIC as those who want HDMI?  Is there an audience
for shrunken desktops as full desktops?

Why is POE such an alien concept?

> 
> -- MY FAVORITE
> 
> Unrelated to UNIX, I was delighted to find a Gieger Counter which
> plugs into an iPhone/iPad: http://www.radiation-watch.org/
> 
> It's amazing that they produced a useful Gieger Counter for less than
> $50. (I think this guy sold out yesterday).

Yes, very cool stuff.

I have to say, a lot of the stuff for sale at the main tent is not only
overpriced, but getting junkier.  It's surprising.  I know the maker toy
scene for a while, but for $20 we give you a tin can and two cams and an
axle is just too much.

g


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Sep 25 17:01:07 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 21:01:07 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Question FreeBSD 10.x release schedule (huh?)
Message-ID: <201309252101.r8PL17QD011742@rs102.luxsci.com>


Hi All,

I think I'm missing something serious here:
Why, if FreeBSD 9.2 is running a month behind, did 10.x release
schedule get put up on the freebsd.org homepage?

I proabably missed something on list(s), but it's frustrating- was just
pointing a new *BSD user at the site to go try it, confusion ensued...

Best,
.ike




From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Wed Sep 25 17:07:00 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:07:00 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Question FreeBSD 10.x release schedule (huh?)
In-Reply-To: <201309252101.r8PL17QD011742@rs102.luxsci.com>
References: <201309252101.r8PL17QD011742@rs102.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20130925210700.GD2335@glenbarber.us>

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 09:01:07PM +0000, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> I think I'm missing something serious here:
> Why, if FreeBSD 9.2 is running a month behind, did 10.x release
> schedule get put up on the freebsd.org homepage?
> 

We're finishing up the release notes.  The 9.2-RELEASE builds should
begin in (hopefully) no more than 2 days.

Glen

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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Sep 25 19:31:09 2013
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac Levy)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 19:31:09 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Question FreeBSD 10.x release schedule (huh?)
In-Reply-To: <20130925210700.GD2335@glenbarber.us>
References: <201309252101.r8PL17QD011742@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <20130925210700.GD2335@glenbarber.us>
Message-ID: <680CB658-ADC7-4AE9-A83C-AE7D9FFA93BE@blackskyresearch.net>

On Sep 25, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 09:01:07PM +0000, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
>> I think I'm missing something serious here:
>> Why, if FreeBSD 9.2 is running a month behind, did 10.x release
>> schedule get put up on the freebsd.org homepage?
> 
> We're finishing up the release notes.  The 9.2-RELEASE builds should
> begin in (hopefully) no more than 2 days.
> 
> Glen

That's awesome news- no need to rush a good thing with 9.2 :)

My question was about the 10.x release schedule suddenly being front and center, (with aggressive dates at that!). Why the apparent push?

--
Commentary:

It's confusing to new users, as well as old farts like me.

Getting a chance to put a REL to use, and not just dev on it, o spend lifer upgrading, is very important to sustaining the project.  If we don't get to use (and maintain) the OS, what's the point of it's existence?

--
So, being more positive- what's happening that gets three major versions of one OS, up on the FreeBSD  homepage even?  What's the rush?

Best,
.ike




From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Wed Sep 25 20:40:08 2013
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 20:40:08 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Question FreeBSD 10.x release schedule (huh?)
In-Reply-To: <680CB658-ADC7-4AE9-A83C-AE7D9FFA93BE@blackskyresearch.net>
References: <201309252101.r8PL17QD011742@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <20130925210700.GD2335@glenbarber.us>
 <680CB658-ADC7-4AE9-A83C-AE7D9FFA93BE@blackskyresearch.net>
Message-ID: <20130926004008.GE2335@glenbarber.us>

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 07:31:09PM -0400, Isaac Levy wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Glen Barber <gjb at FreeBSD.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 09:01:07PM +0000, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> >> I think I'm missing something serious here:
> >> Why, if FreeBSD 9.2 is running a month behind, did 10.x release
> >> schedule get put up on the freebsd.org homepage?
> > 
> > We're finishing up the release notes.  The 9.2-RELEASE builds should
> > begin in (hopefully) no more than 2 days.
> > 
> > Glen
> 
> That's awesome news- no need to rush a good thing with 9.2 :)
> 
> My question was about the 10.x release schedule suddenly being
> front and center, (with aggressive dates at that!). Why the apparent
> push?
> 
> --
> Commentary:
> 
> It's confusing to new users, as well as old farts like me.
> 
> Getting a chance to put a REL to use, and not just dev on it, o
> spend lifer upgrading, is very important to sustaining the project.
> If we don't get to use (and maintain) the OS, what's the point of
> it's existence?
> 
> --
> So, being more positive- what's happening that gets three major
> versions of one OS, up on the FreeBSD  homepage even?  What's the
> rush?
> 

9.2-RELEASE is way behind (before it even started).  The "dot-zero"
releases always happen every 2 years.  There is no rush, it just
appears that way with 9.2 being so late to get started.

Glen

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From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Fri Sep 27 19:30:16 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 19:30:16 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] avoiding coldboot key stealing
Message-ID: <CADn+Hswh+v3iHJqTYCXJ4ts8u53n_TCq+f0TeW_stbQ8o6TdBw@mail.gmail.com>

Via hacker news I saw this http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor,
it claims to avoid storing AES decrypted keys in ram by using the CPU's
debug registers, also it seems Linux only for now.

Anything similar out there for use with ssh/ssl and (I know, too much to
ask) cipher agnostic? My search-foo returns mostly nil.

I'll almost consider using a laptop (other than my phone) if there is.
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From sjt.kar at gmail.com  Sun Sep 29 06:40:55 2013
From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit K M)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:10:55 +0530
Subject: [nycbug-talk] avoiding coldboot key stealing
In-Reply-To: <CADn+Hswh+v3iHJqTYCXJ4ts8u53n_TCq+f0TeW_stbQ8o6TdBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADn+Hswh+v3iHJqTYCXJ4ts8u53n_TCq+f0TeW_stbQ8o6TdBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPOgtA8WWcG=DWstHr3us_tWH7-YzJwBQnxS-cKgrw2aZuOdg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 5:00 AM, Brian Coca <briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com> wrote:
> Via hacker news I saw this http://www1.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/tresor, it
> claims to avoid storing AES decrypted keys in ram by using the CPU's debug
> registers, also it seems Linux only for now.

The patch is linux kernel based. Could be happening in any OS.

> Anything similar out there for use with ssh/ssl and (I know, too much to
> ask) cipher agnostic? My search-foo returns mostly nil.

These are network protocols. I don't think you need to do have a register based
encryption. If you consider it with HTTPS/FTPS etc. It would take up too much
processor time to put this on the register.

> I'll almost consider using a laptop (other than my phone) if there is.

Even laptops would have the same issues.


From okan at demirmen.com  Mon Sep 30 12:54:06 2013
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:54:06 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
Message-ID: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>

For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:

1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist

Thanks.


From mikel.king at gmail.com  Mon Sep 30 13:03:24 2013
From: mikel.king at gmail.com (mikel king)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:03:24 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <963A99FF-E609-42C2-898F-6CB5E02C2D48@gmail.com>

#2 is kind of nice?


On Sep 30, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen <okan at demirmen.com> wrote:

> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
> 
> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
> 
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Mon Sep 30 13:09:32 2013
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:09:32 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HsxUMou=nZ+eqWhw4dZR8h3L7v=GYjsB7g+ZadSoUKOx=w@mail.gmail.com>

All look good in w3m ;-)

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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Sep 30 13:20:01 2013
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:20:01 -0700
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5249B2C1.9080602@nomadlogic.org>

On 09/30/2013 09:54 AM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>
> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>

liking #2 :)

-p


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA


From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Mon Sep 30 13:27:12 2013
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:27:12 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>

On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>
> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

+1 on #2
Looks good.
P


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Mon Sep 30 14:16:47 2013
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:16:47 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
> > For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
> > please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
> >
> > 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
> > 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
> > 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
> >
> > Thanks.
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> +1 on #2
> Looks good.
> P
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


I like #2


-- 

Mark Saad | mark.saad at ymail.com
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 30 14:24:51 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:24:51 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5249C1F3.30607@ceetonetechnology.com>

Mark Saad:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
>>> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>>>
>>> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
>>> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
>>> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> +1 on #2
>> Looks good.
>> P
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
> 
> 
> I like #2

Wow.  What quick responses on this.  Aren't we all just a bunch of
graphics ppl now.  What will happen when our new logo is formally released?

;)

Number 1 looks best to me, after some earlier revisions, althoug 2 is
totally acceptable too.

g



From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Mon Sep 30 17:54:39 2013
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 17:54:39 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 02:16:47PM -0400, Mark Saad wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
> > > For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
> > > please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
> > >
> > > 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
> > > 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
> > > 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
> > >

I like 2.  It has the first current topic written out, rather than making
the user click on the link, and then has links to all the other things.  A
little more space between the announcement of Boris' talk and and the link
to Moe Nassar's might or might not be nice too.  (Note that I have no
graphics knowledge, but that's my impression.)


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 30 22:40:14 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:40:14 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <524A360E.4010406@ceetonetechnology.com>

Scott Robbins:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 02:16:47PM -0400, Mark Saad wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>>> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
>>>> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
>>>> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
>>>> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>>>>
> 
> I like 2.  It has the first current topic written out, rather than making
> the user click on the link, and then has links to all the other things.  A
> little more space between the announcement of Boris' talk and and the link
> to Moe Nassar's might or might not be nice too.  (Note that I have no
> graphics knowledge, but that's my impression.)

Well Scott, you have shown you have no graphics knowledge, since you
agreed with a lot of other people who also have none either ;)

I agree on space between 'next' and upcoming events too.

Someone doing the tallying here?

Also, Okan dropped in the new logo, which there was pretty strong
consensus for a few meetings ago.

g


From billtotman at billtotman.com  Mon Sep 30 22:45:07 2013
From: billtotman at billtotman.com (Bill Totman)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:45:07 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <CE6FAF5C.10708%billtotman@billtotman.com>

On 9/30/13 5:54 PM, "Scott Robbins" <scottro at nyc.rr.com> wrote:


>On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 02:16:47PM -0400, Mark Saad wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy
>><mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
>> 
>> > On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>> > > For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
>> > > please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>> > >
>> > > 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
>> > > 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
>> > > 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>> > >
>
>I like 2.  It has the first current topic written out, rather than making
>the user click on the link, and then has links to all the other things.  A
>little more space between the announcement of Boris' talk and and the link
>to Moe Nassar's might or might not be nice too.  (Note that I have no
>graphics knowledge, but that's my impression.)
>

+1 on the spacing

-bt

>
>-- 
>Scott Robbins
>PGP keyID EB3467D6
>( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
>gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
>
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From bcallah at devio.us  Mon Sep 30 22:51:29 2013
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <524A360E.4010406@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>
 <524A360E.4010406@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSO.2.00.1309302250280.26860@wolfman.devio.us>



On Mon, 30 Sep 2013, George Rosamond wrote:

> Scott Robbins:
>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 02:16:47PM -0400, Mark Saad wrote:
>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>>>> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
>>>>> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
>>>>> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
>>>>> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>>>>>
>>
>> I like 2.  It has the first current topic written out, rather than making
>> the user click on the link, and then has links to all the other things.  A
>> little more space between the announcement of Boris' talk and and the link
>> to Moe Nassar's might or might not be nice too.  (Note that I have no
>> graphics knowledge, but that's my impression.)
>
> Well Scott, you have shown you have no graphics knowledge, since you
> agreed with a lot of other people who also have none either ;)
>

Way to throw all of us under the bus there ;-)

> I agree on space between 'next' and upcoming events too.
>
> Someone doing the tallying here?
>

Option 2 is far and away in the lead.

> Also, Okan dropped in the new logo, which there was pretty strong
> consensus for a few meetings ago.
>

Just noticed that. Nice new logo!

~Brian


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 30 22:57:46 2013
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:57:46 -0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] www.nycbug.org homepage
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSO.2.00.1309302250280.26860@wolfman.devio.us>
References: <CACs0eVT16bMR8zCx4=zr6XS+8HNCO7cMU-voP5-xnB6pzWpFvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5249B470.1040200@gmail.com>
 <CAMXt9NbrQtMopqhnoi56saG6uXuMdE5q_C3AdPqa-LF0uihrZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20130930215438.GD1339@scott1.scottro.net>
 <524A360E.4010406@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <alpine.BSO.2.00.1309302250280.26860@wolfman.devio.us>
Message-ID: <524A3A2A.900@ceetonetechnology.com>

Brian Callahan:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013, George Rosamond wrote:
> 
>> Scott Robbins:
>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 02:16:47PM -0400, Mark Saad wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Patrick McEvoy
>>>> <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/30/13 12:54 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:
>>>>>> For those who think the homepage might need a different look/feel,
>>>>>> please consider voicing your opinion(s) on the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=llist
>>>>>> 2) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=slist
>>>>>> 3) http://www.nycbug.org/?action=event&do=ylist
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> I like 2.  It has the first current topic written out, rather than
>>> making
>>> the user click on the link, and then has links to all the other
>>> things.  A
>>> little more space between the announcement of Boris' talk and and the
>>> link
>>> to Moe Nassar's might or might not be nice too.  (Note that I have no
>>> graphics knowledge, but that's my impression.)
>>
>> Well Scott, you have shown you have no graphics knowledge, since you
>> agreed with a lot of other people who also have none either ;)
>>
> 
> Way to throw all of us under the bus there ;-)

We have hundreds of people on this list.  Maybe six of them know that
white and off-white are different colors, and I don't mean in hex.  Our
original logo was done by someone in NYPHP a long time ago.

On the other hand, it's nice how our "functionalism" all comes to the
same opinion.

And if we didn't have an Ike, we'd have to create him.  He's one of the
few who grasps (or imagines?) the interconnection of engineering and art :)

> 
>> I agree on space between 'next' and upcoming events too.
>>
>> Someone doing the tallying here?
>>
> 
> Option 2 is far and away in the lead.

Cool.

Other comments on 2, *if* that's the majority?

> 
>> Also, Okan dropped in the new logo, which there was pretty strong
>> consensus for a few meetings ago.
>>
> 
> Just noticed that. Nice new logo!

Agree.  Does the rest of the logo (New York City... bridge for learning)
match the fonts?

Seems like too many fonts going on with page.. .that, I do remember from
my pre-press days, is a no-no.

g