From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Thu Jan  2 12:04:47 2014
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:04:47 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
Message-ID: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>


Hi All,

This thread boils up again and again over the years here:

For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips on 
acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.  Thoughts?

Thanks!

Best,
.ike




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan  2 12:15:05 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:15:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <52C59E99.1000308@ceetonetechnology.com>

Isaac (.ike) Levy:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> This thread boils up again and again over the years here:
> 
> For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips on
> acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.  Thoughts?
> 

One interesting (relatively recent) option is that some registrar's
offer them cheaply or free.

Gandi.net, for instance.

Ultimately, it's a "suckage" degree, as you note.

g



From bonsaime at gmail.com  Thu Jan  2 13:55:44 2014
From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:55:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net
> wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
> This thread boils up again and again over the years here:
>
> For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips on
> acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.  Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best,
> .ike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


Huge fan of DigiCert, myself. Once they verify your ownership of a domain
they can let you abuse that to pump out certs rather quickly and cheaply.
They also have great service and will let you modify a cert in case a
mistake was made with no hassle.

-- 
-jesse
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From venture37 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  2 14:20:36 2014
From: venture37 at gmail.com (Sevan / Venture37)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 23:20:36 +0400
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+U3Mf6YyO1fNfeg1eby1M8fHyURSGZmRU0woDnf1NPg30k5eA@mail.gmail.com>

CAcert or StartSSL


Sevan


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan  2 14:51:57 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 11:51:57 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52C5C35D.2080700@nomadlogic.org>

On 01/02/2014 10:55 AM, Jesse Callaway wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy
> <ike at blackskyresearch.net <mailto:ike at blackskyresearch.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi All,
>
>     This thread boils up again and again over the years here:
>
>     For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips
>     on acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.
>       Thoughts?
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     Best,
>     .ike
>
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     talk mailing list
>     talk at lists.nycbug.org <mailto:talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>     http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/__listinfo/talk
>     <http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>
>
>
> Huge fan of DigiCert, myself. Once they verify your ownership of a
> domain they can let you abuse that to pump out certs rather quickly and
> cheaply. They also have great service and will let you modify a cert in
> case a mistake was made with no hassle.
>

oh sweet was going to suggest DynEtc but it looks like they transfered 
their SSL business to DigiCert.  Hopefully they have their shit together 
like DynEtc :)

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA


From briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com  Thu Jan  2 15:08:13 2014
From: briancoca+nycbug at gmail.com (Brian Coca)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CADn+HswPyj_JzDBaW2WrXwLxy9n_yy9fmZCZpYcrNBX6ZqUdqA@mail.gmail.com>

I see a few to try out next from previous posts, sadly I cannot give you a
'good' one.

 I can give you ones to avoid, like godaddy, verisign/symantec and
affiliates (they've bought many that used to be good like thawte). I'm on
the fence about Entrust, I've had mixed results with their support.

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From jbaltz at 3phasecomputing.com  Thu Jan  2 15:30:31 2014
From: jbaltz at 3phasecomputing.com (Jerry Altzman)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:30:31 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CAP6zgGVJZK+vvtPEEEDd3=GnpLm5Teht6sM4F_3wuwULGCO9Ug@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net
> wrote:

> For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips on
> acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.  Thoughts?
>

I've always had good luck from rapidssl (now Geotrust). Cheap, fast,
relatively pain-free.


> .ike
>

//jbaltz
-- 
jerry b. altzman  jbaltz at 3phasecomputing.com  +1 718 763 7405 x112
http://www.linkedin.com/in/lorvax    twitter: @jbaltz3phase
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From bob at redivi.com  Thu Jan  2 15:40:11 2014
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 12:40:11 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <CAP6zgGVJZK+vvtPEEEDd3=GnpLm5Teht6sM4F_3wuwULGCO9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <CAP6zgGVJZK+vvtPEEEDd3=GnpLm5Teht6sM4F_3wuwULGCO9Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACwMPm9GpS8DMPNk811WD2DJSna5hTeMQv9rdDh_3oRTYvO3uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Jerry Altzman
<jbaltz at 3phasecomputing.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy <
> ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
>
>> For lightweight personal use, I'm wondering if anyone had any tips on
>> acquiring a cert from any CA that doesn't *completely* suck.  Thoughts?
>>
>
> I've always had good luck from rapidssl (now Geotrust). Cheap, fast,
> relatively pain-free.
>

I can vouch for rapidssl, we used them at Mochi Media for years with no
issues that I know of? I wasn't directly responsible for ops, but I tried
to keep up with what was going on.
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Thu Jan  2 17:58:04 2014
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:58:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPKKYS3AxL6uUtpzRnehX_vKtPWgL=5HBZNU7A7G8DhbHvTj7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Huge fan of DigiCert, myself. Once they verify your ownership of a domain
> they can let you abuse that to pump out certs rather quickly and cheaply.
> They also have great service and will let you modify a cert in case a
> mistake was made with no hassle.
>
> Plus 1 for DigiCert.

They have per-certificate notification settings that allow you to choose
when to be reminded (or not) that a cert is going to expire. I hate getting
pointless renewal spam.
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From jpb at jimby.name  Fri Jan  3 11:42:17 2014
From: jpb at jimby.name (Jim B.)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 11:42:17 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Where to get SSL Certs?
In-Reply-To: <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201401021704.s02H4lMN019713@rs102.luxsci.com>
 <CAJU5ZBPVAw0cuj-8L4uHzBq5RrZ7VxdYEWydQFR8vRf6TxDaQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140103164217.GA46103@jimby.name>

* Jesse Callaway <bonsaime at gmail.com> [2014-01-02 14:22]:
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Isaac (.ike) Levy <ike at blackskyresearch.net
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge fan of DigiCert, myself. Once they verify your ownership of a domain
> they can let you abuse that to pump out certs rather quickly and cheaply.
> They also have great service and will let you modify a cert in case a
> mistake was made with no hassle.
> 
> -- 
> -jesse


+1 for DigiCert.  Reasonably priced, and good service.  We use them for BSDCG.
And we did have to prove ownership of the domain, but it was fairly straightforward.

You can also comparison shop at sslshopper.com to learn features and pricing.
Very useful info.

Cheers,
Jim B.



From bcallah at devio.us  Sat Jan  4 17:20:58 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 17:20:58 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
Message-ID: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>

Hi talk --

I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD 
graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I 
would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my i386 
ports testing; the old GPU card died.

It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's all 
I need.

Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on 
Wednesday, I can take it from you then.

Thanks!

~Brian


From spork at bway.net  Sat Jan  4 17:45:32 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 17:45:32 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
Message-ID: <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net>

On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan wrote:

> Hi talk --
> 
> I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.

AGP, PCI, PCI-X, PCI-e?

Asking on-list since others may have the same question.

> 
> It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's all I need.
> 
> Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ~Brian
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From bcallah at devio.us  Sat Jan  4 17:53:06 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 17:53:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net>
Message-ID: <52C890D2.4030207@devio.us>


On 01/04/14 17:45, Charles Sprickman wrote:
> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan wrote:
>
>> Hi talk --
>>
>> I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.
> AGP, PCI, PCI-X, PCI-e?

AGP. Sorry if that was unclear.

> Asking on-list since others may have the same question.
>
>> It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's all I need.
>>
>> Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> ~Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From spork at bway.net  Sat Jan  4 17:58:55 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 17:58:55 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <52C890D2.4030207@devio.us>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net> <52C890D2.4030207@devio.us>
Message-ID: <C6AA4AE1-7366-4C07-883D-226DC5D4F6FB@bway.net>

On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:53 PM, Brian Callahan wrote:

> 
> On 01/04/14 17:45, Charles Sprickman wrote:
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi talk --
>>> 
>>> I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old *****AGP***** ATI/AMD graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.
>> AGP, PCI, PCI-X, PCI-e?
> 
> AGP. Sorry if that was unclear.

I AM BLIND.

> 
>> Asking on-list since others may have the same question.
>> 
>>> It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's all I need.
>>> 
>>> Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> ~Brian
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 




From bcallah at devio.us  Sat Jan  4 18:16:15 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 18:16:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <C6AA4AE1-7366-4C07-883D-226DC5D4F6FB@bway.net>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net> <52C890D2.4030207@devio.us>
 <C6AA4AE1-7366-4C07-883D-226DC5D4F6FB@bway.net>
Message-ID: <52C8963F.8040600@devio.us>

Someone has stepped forward.

Thanks everyone!

~Brian


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Jan  4 18:25:29 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 18:25:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <52C8963F.8040600@devio.us>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <693282F6-1402-43F9-9F89-338FB44F9326@bway.net> <52C890D2.4030207@devio.us>
 <C6AA4AE1-7366-4C07-883D-226DC5D4F6FB@bway.net> <52C8963F.8040600@devio.us>
Message-ID: <52C89869.4050809@ceetonetechnology.com>

Brian Callahan:
> Someone has stepped forward.
> 
> Thanks everyone!

Great.

Just to fill the talk@ in on this, developers should feel free to ping
the list with reasonable hardware requests like Brian did.

Yes, there are lists for donations on each of the BSD project web sites,
but some are outdated, and this list is more immediate and regionally
based (well, more or less :), so that likely facilitates the needs being
matched quickly and in person.

Obviously, other relevant requests also work... for testing, engineer
contacts at specific manufacturers, etc.  I thought about creating a
separate list for that in the past, but it really makes sense just to
keep it on talk@, or even add to announces when appropriate.

g


From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  4 18:59:14 2014
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 18:59:14 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1MpTMGqBc4FsQ981EJTCcXJoUBsaJP8ukM2pyr0UEY==A@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,

Out of curosity, is there a point to testing the i386 ports on bare metal
as opposed to a VM or is it just the hardware you have on hand?

Justin


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:

> Hi talk --
>
> I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD graphics
> card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I would be much
> appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my i386 ports testing; the
> old GPU card died.
>
> It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's all I
> need.
>
> Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on Wednesday,
> I can take it from you then.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~Brian
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From bcallah at devio.us  Sat Jan  4 19:47:13 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 19:47:13 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <CABsCM1MpTMGqBc4FsQ981EJTCcXJoUBsaJP8ukM2pyr0UEY==A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <CABsCM1MpTMGqBc4FsQ981EJTCcXJoUBsaJP8ukM2pyr0UEY==A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52C8AB91.3050308@devio.us>

On 1/4/2014 6:59 PM, Justin Dearing wrote:
> Brian,
>
> Out of curosity, is there a point to testing the i386 ports on bare
> metal as opposed to a VM or is it just the hardware you have on hand?
>

QEMU is terribly slow...

~Brian

> Justin
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
> <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>> wrote:
>
>     Hi talk --
>
>     I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD
>     graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I
>     would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my
>     i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.
>
>     It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's
>     all I need.
>
>     Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on
>     Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
>
>     Thanks!
>
>     ~Brian



From zippy1981 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  4 22:48:06 2014
From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:48:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <52C8AB91.3050308@devio.us>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <CABsCM1MpTMGqBc4FsQ981EJTCcXJoUBsaJP8ukM2pyr0UEY==A@mail.gmail.com>
 <52C8AB91.3050308@devio.us>
Message-ID: <CABsCM1OQHqE+Z9+DoSJBAnetJ-S1vCLFKv-YsHfuWp0kny9v1A@mail.gmail.com>

I thought qemu was the fastest out there? Are you compiling all the ports?
I don't know what fast enough is for you, but I'm able to build RPMs from
source just fine with the smallest linux VM azure will give you. Ditto for
single core Virtualbox and hyper-V vms.


On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:

> On 1/4/2014 6:59 PM, Justin Dearing wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>>
>> Out of curosity, is there a point to testing the i386 ports on bare
>> metal as opposed to a VM or is it just the hardware you have on hand?
>>
>>
> QEMU is terribly slow...
>
> ~Brian
>
>  Justin
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
>> <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi talk --
>>
>>     I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP ATI/AMD
>>     graphics card they have lying around and are willing to part with, I
>>     would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use for my
>>     i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.
>>
>>     It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's ATI/AMD that's
>>     all I need.
>>
>>     Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on
>>     Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
>>
>>     Thanks!
>>
>>     ~Brian
>>
>
>
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From bcallah at devio.us  Sun Jan  5 02:06:15 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 02:06:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Small hardware request
In-Reply-To: <CABsCM1OQHqE+Z9+DoSJBAnetJ-S1vCLFKv-YsHfuWp0kny9v1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52C8894A.7030201@devio.us>
 <CABsCM1MpTMGqBc4FsQ981EJTCcXJoUBsaJP8ukM2pyr0UEY==A@mail.gmail.com>
 <52C8AB91.3050308@devio.us>
 <CABsCM1OQHqE+Z9+DoSJBAnetJ-S1vCLFKv-YsHfuWp0kny9v1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52C90467.2000406@devio.us>

On 1/4/2014 10:48 PM, Justin Dearing wrote:
> I thought qemu was the fastest out there? Are you compiling all the
> ports? I don't know what fast enough is for you, but I'm able to build
> RPMs from source just fine with the smallest linux VM azure will give
> you. Ditto for single core Virtualbox and hyper-V vms.
>

Virtualbox and hyper-V are non-options (no OpenBSD host support).
Besides, testing graphical applications is infinitely more valuable on 
real hardware.

>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
> <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>> wrote:
>
>     On 1/4/2014 6:59 PM, Justin Dearing wrote:
>
>         Brian,
>
>         Out of curosity, is there a point to testing the i386 ports on bare
>         metal as opposed to a VM or is it just the hardware you have on
>         hand?
>
>
>     QEMU is terribly slow...
>
>     ~Brian
>
>         Justin
>
>
>         On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
>         <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>
>         <mailto:bcallah at devio.us <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>>> wrote:
>
>              Hi talk --
>
>              I have a tiny hardware request: if someone has an old AGP
>         ATI/AMD
>              graphics card they have lying around and are willing to
>         part with, I
>              would be much appreciative. This is for the machine I use
>         for my
>              i386 ports testing; the old GPU card died.
>
>              It need not be high end or anything, as long as it's
>         ATI/AMD that's
>              all I need.
>
>              Please contact me off-list. If you're coming to the meeting on
>              Wednesday, I can take it from you then.
>
>              Thanks!
>
>              ~Brian
>
>
>
>
>



From nikolai at fetissov.org  Tue Jan  7 14:50:44 2014
From: nikolai at fetissov.org (Nikolai Fetissov)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 14:50:44 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Audio for tomorrow meeting?
Message-ID: <F1854AF5-A0D7-4276-B375-A84B66873F48@fetissov.org>

Folks,

I won't be able to attend the meeting tomorrow unfortunately.
Can somebody please pick up recording the audio?

Cheers,
--
 Nikolai


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  8 08:08:39 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 08:08:39 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon tickets
Message-ID: <52CD4DD7.6010201@ceetonetechnology.com>

As the con site states, we will be selling tickets to NYCBSDCon 2014
tonight before the meeting tonight.

We will only offer a couple of opportunities to purchase the tickets for
$25 (cash) face-to-face, so make sure you are on announce at .

Online registration will open in a few days, but the price will be
significantly higher.

g


From john.joe.villa at gmail.com  Wed Jan  8 09:48:29 2014
From: john.joe.villa at gmail.com (John Villa)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:48:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon tickets
In-Reply-To: <52CD4DD7.6010201@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52CD4DD7.6010201@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAD3Z-xsMx1yqhDhZoFi=e+=sNSf30vUhuQ89DTuDFO+Dpr+Pmg@mail.gmail.com>

When can I get some tickets?


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 8:08 AM, George Rosamond <
george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> As the con site states, we will be selling tickets to NYCBSDCon 2014
> tonight before the meeting tonight.
>
> We will only offer a couple of opportunities to purchase the tickets for
> $25 (cash) face-to-face, so make sure you are on announce at .
>
> Online registration will open in a few days, but the price will be
> significantly higher.
>
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan  8 10:52:50 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 10:52:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYCBSDCon tickets
In-Reply-To: <CAD3Z-xsMx1yqhDhZoFi=e+=sNSf30vUhuQ89DTuDFO+Dpr+Pmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52CD4DD7.6010201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CAD3Z-xsMx1yqhDhZoFi=e+=sNSf30vUhuQ89DTuDFO+Dpr+Pmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52CD7452.9050401@ceetonetechnology.com>

John Villa:
> When can I get some tickets?
> 

The announce states we'll be doing registration tonight at the meeting.

Online registration will be up in the very near-future.

And we may do some additional face-to-face registrations for $25 in the
next month.

g



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Jan  9 10:13:49 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:13:49 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52B32014.5020202@thegridsource.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219021106.GA9319@jimby.name> <52B268F9.8050002@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219044554.GA9635@jimby.name> <52B312DC.80308@thegridsource.com>
 <52B314B3.4020901@ceetonetechnology.com> <52B32014.5020202@thegridsource.com>
Message-ID: <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com>

Jared Davenport:
> 
> 
> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> Jared Davenport:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18 
>>>>>> 12:20]:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the verbose 
>>>>> output:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however that
>>>> FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to release.
>>>> 
>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based on
>>>> FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
>>>> 
>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD, try 
>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or even 8.3 
>>>> directly.
>>>> 
>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>> 
>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>> 
>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with
>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>> 
>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for posting JD!
>> 
>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not sure
>>> why.
>> 
>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>> 
>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much matter.
> 
> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 2.08.00, 
> specifically,
> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
> 
> I've added the BIOS message here: http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
> 
>> 
>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should help
>> in the /etc/rc.conf:
>> 
>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>> 
>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...

Reraising the thread...

Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC Engines
directly?  Pricing?

I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very
near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.

g



From jared at thegridsource.com  Thu Jan  9 14:40:06 2014
From: jared at thegridsource.com (Jared Davenport)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:40:06 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219021106.GA9319@jimby.name> <52B268F9.8050002@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219044554.GA9635@jimby.name> <52B312DC.80308@thegridsource.com>
 <52B314B3.4020901@ceetonetechnology.com> <52B32014.5020202@thegridsource.com>
 <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> Jared Davenport:
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18 
>>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>>  12:20]:
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the verbose
>>>>>>  output:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however that 
>>>>> FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to release.
>>>>> 
>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based on 
>>>>> FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD, try
>>>>>  installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or even
>>>>> 8.3 directly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>>> 
>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with 
>>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>>> 
>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for posting JD!
>>> 
>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not sure 
>>>> why.
>>> 
>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>>> 
>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much matter.
>> 
>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 2.08.00,
>>  specifically, 
>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
>> 
>> I've added the BIOS message here: http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
>> 
>>> 
>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should
>>> help in the /etc/rc.conf:
>>> 
>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>>> 
>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
> 
> Reraising the thread...
> 
> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC Engines 
> directly?  Pricing?
> 
> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very 
> near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.

PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't production-ready
quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the final version.

For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save power and
heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with heat
dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues first-hand.

> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________ talk mailing list 
> talk at lists.nycbug.org http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Thu Jan  9 18:06:40 2014
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:06:40 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219021106.GA9319@jimby.name> <52B268F9.8050002@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219044554.GA9635@jimby.name> <52B312DC.80308@thegridsource.com>
 <52B314B3.4020901@ceetonetechnology.com> <52B32014.5020202@thegridsource.com>
 <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com> <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
Message-ID: <1F8481A8-17EA-4972-BE85-FFC89179F737@ymail.com>



> On Jan 9, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 
>> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> Jared Davenport:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18 
>>>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the verbose
>>>>>>> output:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however that 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to release.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based on 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD, try
>>>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or even
>>>>>> 8.3 directly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with 
>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>>>> 
>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
>>>> 
>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not sure 
>>>>> why.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>>>> 
>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much matter.
>>> 
>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 2.08.00,
>>> specifically, 
>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
>>> 
>>> I've added the BIOS message here: http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should
>>>> help in the /etc/rc.conf:
>>>> 
>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>>>> 
>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
>> 
>> Reraising the thread...
>> 
>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC Engines 
>> directly?  Pricing?
>> 
>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very 
>> near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.
> 
> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't production-ready
> quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the final version.
> 
> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save power and
> heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with heat
> dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues first-hand.
> 

Do you know why they ,pcengines, are not using tiny bios on this board ? Also can do they have any docs on updating , or building a coreboot image ?

Mark 

>> 
>> g
>> 
> 



From jhb at freebsd.org  Thu Jan  9 17:50:02 2014
From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 17:50:02 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com> <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
Message-ID: <4255246.dDCsl0fyHv@ralph.baldwin.cx>

On Thursday, January 09, 2014 02:40:06 PM Jared Davenport wrote:
> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> > Jared Davenport:
> >> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> >>> Jared Davenport:
> >>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 22:57]:
> >>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>  12:20]:
> >>>>> [snip]
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> Thanks Jim,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the verbose
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>  output:
> >>>>>> http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however that
> >>>>> FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to release.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based on
> >>>>> FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD, try
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>  installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or even
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 8.3 directly.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
> >>>> 
> >>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with
> >>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
> >>>> 
> >>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd:
> >>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks for posting JD!
> >>> 
> >>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not sure
> >>>> why.
> >>> 
> >>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
> >>> 
> >>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much matter.
> >> 
> >> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 2.08.00,
> >> 
> >>  specifically,
> >> 
> >> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
> >> 
> >> I've added the BIOS message here: http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
> >> 
> >>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should
> >>> help in the /etc/rc.conf:
> >>> 
> >>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
> >>> 
> >>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
> > 
> > Reraising the thread...
> > 
> > Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC Engines
> > directly?  Pricing?
> > 
> > I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very
> > near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.
> 
> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't production-ready
> quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the final version.
> 
> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save power and
> heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with heat
> dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues first-hand.

Does 9.2 still hang on boot?  If so, can you get a verbose dmesg from
9.2 and 'devinfo -u' and 'devinfo -rv' output from 8.4?

-- 
John Baldwin


From jared at thegridsource.com  Thu Jan  9 20:03:52 2014
From: jared at thegridsource.com (Jared Davenport)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 20:03:52 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <4255246.dDCsl0fyHv@ralph.baldwin.cx>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com> <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
 <4255246.dDCsl0fyHv@ralph.baldwin.cx>
Message-ID: <52CF46F8.2050205@thegridsource.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 01/09/2014 05:50 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
> On Thursday, January 09, 2014 02:40:06 PM Jared Davenport wrote:
>> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
>>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the
>>>>>>>> verbose
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> output: http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however
>>>>>>> that FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to
>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based
>>>>>>> on FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD,
>>>>>>> try
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 8.3 directly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
>>>>> 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not
>>>>>> sure why.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much
>>>>> matter.
>>>> 
>>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot
>>>> 2.08.00,
>>>> 
>>>> specifically,
>>>> 
>>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
>>>> 
>>>> I've added the BIOS message here:
>>>> http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
>>>> 
>>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should 
>>>>> help in the /etc/rc.conf:
>>>>> 
>>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>>>>> 
>>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
>>> 
>>> Reraising the thread...
>>> 
>>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC
>>> Engines directly?  Pricing?
>>> 
>>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very 
>>> near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.
>> 
>> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't
>> production-ready quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the
>> final version.
>> 
>> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save power
>> and heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with heat 
>> dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues first-hand.
> 
> Does 9.2 still hang on boot?  If so, can you get a verbose dmesg
> from 9.2 and 'devinfo -u' and 'devinfo -rv' output from 8.4?

Sorry for the long wait,

Here are the outputs:

devinfo -rv
  http://pastebin.com/QYKd6Mvq

devinfo -u
  http://pastebin.com/rUgPgGkm

root@:~ # uname -a
FreeBSD  8.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE #0 r251259: Sun Jun  2
21:26:57 UTC 2013
root at bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64




> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSz0b1AAoJEHIvhc7WejMgLEIIAKBjRWwnnJMVs/GlutH2CG+8
1TOJo1nP7+MzAqZ92WbJLrVox32eqWXsVSMcZ87wW0crB/vSzfYonRYzPLvNp16V
2nT/zVWwfFLw2ocl9y7KTXXrmsL/nwk/Caw3cEYIevapNQHO4+kPYdUpJeqy6Xqh
U5LiGu33dY2mYoN5Cfw2tdQaYifpvjJvDhYh4SgGQcLNeFc5+HXZTBqmfe2wq0PJ
zvc36un7NUJ71aLbgw5FWvItsEPYrU5VIliMwjiY9z8rPSgLencU2aVDA4g9p34I
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=4Zax
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From njt at ayvali.org  Fri Jan 10 10:46:26 2014
From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:46:26 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] February NYLUG meeting: GNN on FreeBSD vs Linux
Message-ID: <20140110154626.GC62317@zaph.org>

just fyi,

It doesn't seem to be up on their website yet but at last night's NYLUG
meeting they mentioned that their February talk would feature George
Neville-Neil on a comparison of FreeBSD and Linux.

Thomas


From jared at thegridsource.com  Fri Jan 10 15:21:29 2014
From: jared at thegridsource.com (Jared Davenport)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:21:29 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <1F8481A8-17EA-4972-BE85-FFC89179F737@ymail.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219021106.GA9319@jimby.name> <52B268F9.8050002@thegridsource.com>
 <20131219044554.GA9635@jimby.name> <52B312DC.80308@thegridsource.com>
 <52B314B3.4020901@ceetonetechnology.com> <52B32014.5020202@thegridsource.com>
 <52CEBCAD.40601@ceetonetechnology.com> <52CEFB16.7060406@thegridsource.com>
 <1F8481A8-17EA-4972-BE85-FFC89179F737@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <52D05649.2050701@thegridsource.com>



On 01/09/2014 06:06 PM, Mark Saad wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 9, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Jared Davenport 
>> <jared at thegridsource.com> wrote:
>> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote: Jared 
>>> Davenport:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote: Jared 
>>>>> Davenport:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote: * Jared
>>>>>>> Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote: * Jared 
>>>>>>>>> Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> [2013-12-18 
>>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the 
>>>>>>>> verbose output:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however 
>>>>>>> that FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to 
>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based 
>>>>>>> on FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run
>>>>>>> FreeBSD, try installing a slightly older version - 9.1,
>>>>>>> 9.2, or even 8.3 directly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
>>>>> 
>>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not 
>>>>>> sure why.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much 
>>>>> matter.
>>>> 
>>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 
>>>> 2.08.00, specifically, 
>>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
>>>> 
>>>> I've added the BIOS message here: 
>>>> http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should
>>>>>  help in the /etc/rc.conf:
>>>>> 
>>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>>>>> 
>>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
>>> 
>>> Reraising the thread...
>>> 
>>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC 
>>> Engines directly?  Pricing?
>>> 
>>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very 
>>> near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.
>> 
>> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't 
>> production-ready quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the 
>> final version.
>> 
>> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save
>> power and heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with
>> heat dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues
>> first-hand.
>> 
> 
> Do you know why they ,pcengines, are not using tiny bios on this 
> board ? Also can do they have any docs on updating , or building a 
> coreboot image ?
> 
> Mark

I asked the developer and here is the two reason he gave.  I'm just
relaying this information:

1) tinyBIOS is a bit behind the times in such areas as ACPI, large
disk support etc.

2) The complexity of new chipsets like the AMD fusion parts is such
that you want to take the basic support code from the supplier as far
as possible. Otherwise I would probably still be debugging.

The source code for coreboot (~430mb) can be found here:

http://www.pcengines.ch/file/coreboot_source.zip

No word on how to build or update it just yet

> 
>>> 
>>> g
>>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ talk mailing list 
> talk at lists.nycbug.org http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 10 22:34:43 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:34:43 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] February NYLUG meeting: GNN on FreeBSD vs Linux
In-Reply-To: <20140110154626.GC62317@zaph.org>
References: <20140110154626.GC62317@zaph.org>
Message-ID: <52D0BBD3.8080204@ceetonetechnology.com>

N.J. Thomas:
> just fyi,
> 
> It doesn't seem to be up on their website yet but at last night's NYLUG
> meeting they mentioned that their February talk would feature George
> Neville-Neil on a comparison of FreeBSD and Linux.
> 

Yes, and other people should check-out that meeting.

We need more BSD talks at other UGs in NYC.  Which, to me, is the point
of Brian's talk the other night.

It was his practice run, in a sense, and now he can do it for others.

g



From mspitzer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 11 13:09:04 2014
From: mspitzer at gmail.com (Marc Spitzer)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 13:09:04 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs graphing in cati
Message-ID: <CA+qr9e5biR7f+juJvD2OTeWVya=26GZb3UByq6LhAbyH6Jrhgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Came across this for work/solaris but I figured it might be a good starting
point for Freebsd ZFS solution, the client side is all shell/net-snmp
configuration.  Anyway here it is:
http://forums.cacti.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47979

Marc

-- 
Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
--Albert Camus

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
-- Winston Churchill

Do the arithmetic or be doomed to talk nonsense.
--John McCarthy
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From jkeen at verizon.net  Sat Jan 11 12:19:42 2014
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 12:19:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
Message-ID: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>

Friends,

Several months ago I was given a brand new Asus Ultrabook, 2 cores, 
running on Intel Core i3-32-3217U running Windows 8.

I'm not a Windows hater.  I used it on $jobs up until 2006 and on my 
personal desktop until 2004.  But this version of Windows is so 
different from what I used to use that I'm not strongly motivated to use 
this machine, accept perhaps for when I need Microsoft Word.  (For the 
record, I'm not enamored of the iOS-ization of Mac in 10.6+, either. 
Give me a comfortable keyboard, a mouse and a Unix command-line, and I'm 
happy.)

Last night I wiped the dust off the Asus -- literally.  The thought 
occurred to me:  Could I make this a dual-boot machine, with a *nix 
system on the other side?  Hmm, I ran Windows98 and RedHat 7.3 on my old 
desktop for several years a decade ago.  I'm familiar with Ubuntu, which 
I used as my desktop at a $job for six years.  (And I've run Debian on 
my Linode since 2005, though that's not a desktop.)

Having attended NYCBUG since 2005 or so, I've noticed that very few 
presenters at either the monthly meetings or the Cons run a non-Apple 
BSD on their laptops.  At the 2010 Con there were more presenters 
running Windows than PC-BSD.

Brian Callahan's presentation at NYCBUG this week suggested that it 
might be viable to run OpenBSD, at least, on a laptop.  I'm at a point 
where I need a more powerful, Unix-based laptop for my 
home/open-source-development use, so I'm motivated to explore options. 
I'm wondering if there is anyone in the NYC vicinity who could help me 
do this.  I know that I'm unlikely to embark on this sitting at home by 
myself, so I'm definitely willing to bring this Asus to wherever someone 
who could help me lives or works. And I'm very willing to compensate 
someone for this in beer, food, cash or perhaps a contribution to an 
appropriate BSD foundation.  (If I don't do this, eventually I'll break 
down and buy a new Mac, but I'm sure the foundation or anyone on this 
list can use that $$ more than Apple.)

Assuming I do get a BSD up and running, there will be beneficial 
results.  I will use it to run smoke tests of Perl and Perl libraries on 
that BSD.  Those smoke tests will be publicly posted, raising that BSD's 
visibility in the Perl community.  I periodically make presentations at 
Perl user groups (like New York Perlmongers) and conferences; if people 
at those meetings saw me booting up a non-Apple BSD, they'd say, "Cool! 
  What's that?"  And, who knows -- I might eventually be able to make a 
software contribution back to the BSD I'm running.

So, if you'd like to offer me some in-person help with this, please 
contact me off-list.  (You're free to kibbitz on-list as much as you 
want.  I know you'll do that anyway. ;-) ) Getting this done before the 
Feb 08 Con would be a definite plus.

Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sat Jan 11 15:34:20 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 15:34:20 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>

James E Keenan:
> Friends,
> 
> Several months ago I was given a brand new Asus Ultrabook, 2 cores,
> running on Intel Core i3-32-3217U running Windows 8.
> 
> I'm not a Windows hater.  I used it on $jobs up until 2006 and on my
> personal desktop until 2004.  But this version of Windows is so
> different from what I used to use that I'm not strongly motivated to use
> this machine, accept perhaps for when I need Microsoft Word.  (For the
> record, I'm not enamored of the iOS-ization of Mac in 10.6+, either.
> Give me a comfortable keyboard, a mouse and a Unix command-line, and I'm
> happy.)
> 
> Last night I wiped the dust off the Asus -- literally.  The thought
> occurred to me:  Could I make this a dual-boot machine, with a *nix
> system on the other side?  Hmm, I ran Windows98 and RedHat 7.3 on my old
> desktop for several years a decade ago.  I'm familiar with Ubuntu, which
> I used as my desktop at a $job for six years.  (And I've run Debian on
> my Linode since 2005, though that's not a desktop.)
> 
> Having attended NYCBUG since 2005 or so, I've noticed that very few
> presenters at either the monthly meetings or the Cons run a non-Apple
> BSD on their laptops.  At the 2010 Con there were more presenters
> running Windows than PC-BSD.
> 
> Brian Callahan's presentation at NYCBUG this week suggested that it
> might be viable to run OpenBSD, at least, on a laptop.  I'm at a point
> where I need a more powerful, Unix-based laptop for my
> home/open-source-development use, so I'm motivated to explore options.
> I'm wondering if there is anyone in the NYC vicinity who could help me
> do this.  I know that I'm unlikely to embark on this sitting at home by
> myself, so I'm definitely willing to bring this Asus to wherever someone
> who could help me lives or works. And I'm very willing to compensate
> someone for this in beer, food, cash or perhaps a contribution to an
> appropriate BSD foundation.  (If I don't do this, eventually I'll break
> down and buy a new Mac, but I'm sure the foundation or anyone on this
> list can use that $$ more than Apple.)
> 
> Assuming I do get a BSD up and running, there will be beneficial
> results.  I will use it to run smoke tests of Perl and Perl libraries on
> that BSD.  Those smoke tests will be publicly posted, raising that BSD's
> visibility in the Perl community.  I periodically make presentations at
> Perl user groups (like New York Perlmongers) and conferences; if people
> at those meetings saw me booting up a non-Apple BSD, they'd say, "Cool!
>  What's that?"  And, who knows -- I might eventually be able to make a
> software contribution back to the BSD I'm running.
> 
> So, if you'd like to offer me some in-person help with this, please
> contact me off-list.  (You're free to kibbitz on-list as much as you
> want.  I know you'll do that anyway. ;-) ) Getting this done before the
> Feb 08 Con would be a definite plus.

Well, at some point in the next week or two, I'll be registering people
for the con, most likely at Suspenders in the evening.

You bring the appropriate install media, and I'm sure someone, such as
myself, can help you out.

And if more people are interested, we can make it an impromptu installfest.

Before then, it might be useful to boot it off *some* BSD and upload the
dmesg to dmesgd so we have an idea of the relevant chipsets.

g


From assaf at eml.cc  Sun Jan 12 11:35:50 2014
From: assaf at eml.cc (Assaf Rutenberg)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:35:50 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>

Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks.

Assaf

George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>James E Keenan:
>> Friends,
>> 
>> Several months ago I was given a brand new Asus Ultrabook, 2 cores,
>> running on Intel Core i3-32-3217U running Windows 8.
>> 
>> I'm not a Windows hater.  I used it on $jobs up until 2006 and on my
>> personal desktop until 2004.  But this version of Windows is so
>> different from what I used to use that I'm not strongly motivated to
>use
>> this machine, accept perhaps for when I need Microsoft Word.  (For
>the
>> record, I'm not enamored of the iOS-ization of Mac in 10.6+, either.
>> Give me a comfortable keyboard, a mouse and a Unix command-line, and
>I'm
>> happy.)
>> 
>> Last night I wiped the dust off the Asus -- literally.  The thought
>> occurred to me:  Could I make this a dual-boot machine, with a *nix
>> system on the other side?  Hmm, I ran Windows98 and RedHat 7.3 on my
>old
>> desktop for several years a decade ago.  I'm familiar with Ubuntu,
>which
>> I used as my desktop at a $job for six years.  (And I've run Debian
>on
>> my Linode since 2005, though that's not a desktop.)
>> 
>> Having attended NYCBUG since 2005 or so, I've noticed that very few
>> presenters at either the monthly meetings or the Cons run a non-Apple
>> BSD on their laptops.  At the 2010 Con there were more presenters
>> running Windows than PC-BSD.
>> 
>> Brian Callahan's presentation at NYCBUG this week suggested that it
>> might be viable to run OpenBSD, at least, on a laptop.  I'm at a
>point
>> where I need a more powerful, Unix-based laptop for my
>> home/open-source-development use, so I'm motivated to explore
>options.
>> I'm wondering if there is anyone in the NYC vicinity who could help
>me
>> do this.  I know that I'm unlikely to embark on this sitting at home
>by
>> myself, so I'm definitely willing to bring this Asus to wherever
>someone
>> who could help me lives or works. And I'm very willing to compensate
>> someone for this in beer, food, cash or perhaps a contribution to an
>> appropriate BSD foundation.  (If I don't do this, eventually I'll
>break
>> down and buy a new Mac, but I'm sure the foundation or anyone on this
>> list can use that $$ more than Apple.)
>> 
>> Assuming I do get a BSD up and running, there will be beneficial
>> results.  I will use it to run smoke tests of Perl and Perl libraries
>on
>> that BSD.  Those smoke tests will be publicly posted, raising that
>BSD's
>> visibility in the Perl community.  I periodically make presentations
>at
>> Perl user groups (like New York Perlmongers) and conferences; if
>people
>> at those meetings saw me booting up a non-Apple BSD, they'd say,
>"Cool!
>>  What's that?"  And, who knows -- I might eventually be able to make
>a
>> software contribution back to the BSD I'm running.
>> 
>> So, if you'd like to offer me some in-person help with this, please
>> contact me off-list.  (You're free to kibbitz on-list as much as you
>> want.  I know you'll do that anyway. ;-) ) Getting this done before
>the
>> Feb 08 Con would be a definite plus.
>
>Well, at some point in the next week or two, I'll be registering people
>for the con, most likely at Suspenders in the evening.
>
>You bring the appropriate install media, and I'm sure someone, such as
>myself, can help you out.
>
>And if more people are interested, we can make it an impromptu
>installfest.
>
>Before then, it might be useful to boot it off *some* BSD and upload
>the
>dmesg to dmesgd so we have an idea of the relevant chipsets.
>
>g
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Jan 12 11:58:02 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:58:02 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <52D2C99A.4090809@ceetonetechnology.com>

Assaf Rutenberg:
> Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks.
> 
> Assaf

Nice.

So to the both of you, make sure you bring the boot media for the BSD of
your choice, and that it's recognized.

Ping me offlist to discuss which BSD and which version, if necessary.

I'll let you know which night this week... but it should be this week.

g



From mike at myownsoho.net  Sun Jan 12 12:48:28 2014
From: mike at myownsoho.net (Mike N.)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:48:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <52D2C99A.4090809@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <52D2C99A.4090809@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <fa44ed2c49ce1f84edd732a0c51c3bbc@myownsoho.net>



On 2014-01-12 11:58, George Rosamond wrote: 

> Assaf Rutenberg:
> 
>> Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks. Assaf
> 
> Nice.
> 
> So to the both of you, make sure you bring the boot media for the BSD of
> your choice, and that it's recognized.
> 
> Ping me offlist to discuss which BSD and which version, if necessary.
> 
> I'll let you know which night this week... but it should be this week.
> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk [1]

I'd like to tag along since i'm interested in the various intricacies of
setting up slices, dual-booting, etc. 

I have external USB dvd drive as well (for those who don't have media
drives). 

Links:
------
[1] http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Jan 12 13:48:12 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 13:48:12 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>


Bah, forgot to cc the list.
(And then, sent it to the list from the wrong address)


On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 12:25:20PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 11:35:50AM -0500, Assaf Rutenberg wrote:
> > Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks.
> > 
> I don't know about that one.  I have successfully installed FreeBSD 9x and
> 10x on  my ultrabook UX31E. 
> 
> However, wireless only worked with 10x, I couldn't get it working with 9.2. 
> They change the specs from time to time so that's no guarantee of anything.
> Also, I don't have Windows on the machine.  It seems to me that it was
> fairly straightforward though--the UX31E comes with a USB to ethernet
> dongle that was recognized during install by both 9.2 and 10, (but not by
> some earlier FreeBSD versions.)
> 
> I also tried to install OpenBSD on it, but couldn't get it to boot--I do't
> remember the exact error--IIRC, it installed, but upon reboot gave a kernel
> panic.  In all cases, the machine was sharing the disk with Linux. 
> 
> I repeat, this is the UX31E, an older Ultrabook, so your results may not
> match mine.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scott Robbins
> PGP keyID EB3467D6
> ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
> 

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Jan 12 13:53:34 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 13:53:34 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <52D2E4AE.50807@ceetonetechnology.com>

Scott Robbins:
> 
> Bah, forgot to cc the list.
> (And then, sent it to the list from the wrong address)
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 12:25:20PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 11:35:50AM -0500, Assaf Rutenberg wrote:
>>> Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks.
>>>
>> I don't know about that one.  I have successfully installed FreeBSD 9x and
>> 10x on  my ultrabook UX31E. 
>>
>> However, wireless only worked with 10x, I couldn't get it working with 9.2. 
>> They change the specs from time to time so that's no guarantee of anything.
>> Also, I don't have Windows on the machine.  It seems to me that it was
>> fairly straightforward though--the UX31E comes with a USB to ethernet
>> dongle that was recognized during install by both 9.2 and 10, (but not by
>> some earlier FreeBSD versions.)
>>
>> I also tried to install OpenBSD on it, but couldn't get it to boot--I do't
>> remember the exact error--IIRC, it installed, but upon reboot gave a kernel
>> panic.  In all cases, the machine was sharing the disk with Linux. 
>>
>> I repeat, this is the UX31E, an older Ultrabook, so your results may not
>> match mine.

Right, so the point to me is that the more preliminary work you spend on
dealing with it pre-installfest, the better.

Try booting of a cd/usb/whatever, put the dmesg in dmesgd on nycbug.org,
search and see about others' experiences.

g



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 13 13:38:52 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:38:52 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] zfs graphing in cati
In-Reply-To: <CA+qr9e5biR7f+juJvD2OTeWVya=26GZb3UByq6LhAbyH6Jrhgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+qr9e5biR7f+juJvD2OTeWVya=26GZb3UByq6LhAbyH6Jrhgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52D432BC.801@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/11/14 10:09, Marc Spitzer wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Came across this for work/solaris but I figured it might be a good
> starting point for Freebsd ZFS solution, the client side is all
> shell/net-snmp configuration.  Anyway here it
> is: http://forums.cacti.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47979
> 

nice thanks Marc.  IIRC what is done here is you extend SNMP to run
custom shell code to generate metrics on space usage, the ARC etc...

at one point i had some code to do something similar using graphite, i
should probably try to dig that up and post it publicly somewhere.  i
was waiting for a newer FreeBSD release so i could pull additional
metrics via dtrace in userland.

-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From jhb at freebsd.org  Mon Jan 13 15:05:56 2014
From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:05:56 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52CF46F8.2050205@thegridsource.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <4255246.dDCsl0fyHv@ralph.baldwin.cx> <52CF46F8.2050205@thegridsource.com>
Message-ID: <201401131505.56157.jhb@freebsd.org>

On Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:03:52 pm Jared Davenport wrote:
> 
> On 01/09/2014 05:50 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 09, 2014 02:40:06 PM Jared Davenport wrote:
> >> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> >>> Jared Davenport:
> >>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> >>>>> Jared Davenport:
> >>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
> >>>>>>> [2013-12-18
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 22:57]:
> >>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
> >>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
> >>>>>>> [snip]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the
> >>>>>>>> verbose
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> output: http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note however
> >>>>>>> that FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing fixes prior to
> >>>>>>> release.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually based
> >>>>>>> on FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release notes.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run FreeBSD,
> >>>>>>> try
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or
> >>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 8.3 directly.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration, with
> >>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd:
> >>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still not
> >>>>>> sure why.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much
> >>>>> matter.
> >>>>
> >>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot
> >>>> 2.08.00,
> >>>>
> >>>> specifically,
> >>>>
> >>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
> >>>>
> >>>> I've added the BIOS message here:
> >>>> http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
> >>>>
> >>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two should
> >>>>> help in the /etc/rc.conf:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
> >>>
> >>> Reraising the thread...
> >>>
> >>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC
> >>> Engines directly?  Pricing?
> >>>
> >>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the very
> >>> near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and Alixen.
> >>
> >> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't
> >> production-ready quite yet.  There will be a few changes to the
> >> final version.
> >>
> >> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save power
> >> and heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems with heat
> >> dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues first-hand.
> >
> > Does 9.2 still hang on boot?  If so, can you get a verbose dmesg
> > from 9.2 and 'devinfo -u' and 'devinfo -rv' output from 8.4?
> 
> Sorry for the long wait,
> 
> Here are the outputs:
> 
> devinfo -rv
>   http://pastebin.com/QYKd6Mvq
> 
> devinfo -u
>   http://pastebin.com/rUgPgGkm
> 
> root@:~ # uname -a
> FreeBSD  8.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE #0 r251259: Sun Jun  2
> 21:26:57 UTC 2013
> root at bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64

Ahh, the BIOS is just broken.  For the pcib0 device, it is claiming
the entire PCI memio window as a consumer when it should be a resource 
producer.  Note that it got this correct for I/O ports, but not
memory.

Do you have the acpidump handy?

-- 
John Baldwin


From jared at thegridsource.com  Mon Jan 13 18:11:15 2014
From: jared at thegridsource.com (Jared Davenport)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:11:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <201401131505.56157.jhb@freebsd.org>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <4255246.dDCsl0fyHv@ralph.baldwin.cx> <52CF46F8.2050205@thegridsource.com>
 <201401131505.56157.jhb@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <52D47293.2020409@thegridsource.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



On 01/13/2014 03:05 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
> On Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:03:52 pm Jared Davenport wrote:
>> 
>> On 01/09/2014 05:50 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 09, 2014 02:40:06 PM Jared Davenport
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
>>>>>>> Jared Davenport:
>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> 
>>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 22:57]:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com> 
>>>>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the 
>>>>>>>>>> verbose
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> output: http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note
>>>>>>>>> however that FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing
>>>>>>>>> fixes prior to release.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually
>>>>>>>>> based on FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release
>>>>>>>>> notes.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run
>>>>>>>>> FreeBSD, try
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or 
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 8.3 directly.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration,
>>>>>>>> with FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd: 
>>>>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still
>>>>>>>> not sure why.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much 
>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot 
>>>>>> 2.08.00,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> specifically,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've added the BIOS message here: 
>>>>>> http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two
>>>>>>> should help in the /etc/rc.conf:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reraising the thread...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC 
>>>>> Engines directly?  Pricing?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the
>>>>> very near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and
>>>>> Alixen.
>>>> 
>>>> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't 
>>>> production-ready quite yet.  There will be a few changes to
>>>> the final version.
>>>> 
>>>> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save
>>>> power and heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems
>>>> with heat dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues
>>>> first-hand.
>>> 
>>> Does 9.2 still hang on boot?  If so, can you get a verbose
>>> dmesg from 9.2 and 'devinfo -u' and 'devinfo -rv' output from
>>> 8.4?
>> 
>> Sorry for the long wait,
>> 
>> Here are the outputs:
>> 
>> devinfo -rv http://pastebin.com/QYKd6Mvq
>> 
>> devinfo -u http://pastebin.com/rUgPgGkm
>> 
>> root@:~ # uname -a FreeBSD  8.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE #0
>> r251259: Sun Jun  2 21:26:57 UTC 2013 
>> root at bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64
> 
> Ahh, the BIOS is just broken.  For the pcib0 device, it is
> claiming the entire PCI memio window as a consumer when it should
> be a resource producer.  Note that it got this correct for I/O
> ports, but not memory.
> 
> Do you have the acpidump handy?

Here you go.  http://pastebin.com/cG57Wtk8 :)

> 
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From bcallah at devio.us  Mon Jan 13 12:52:38 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 12:52:38 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <52D427E6.5010707@devio.us>

On 1/12/2014 1:48 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:
>
> Bah, forgot to cc the list.
> (And then, sent it to the list from the wrong address)
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 12:25:20PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
>> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 11:35:50AM -0500, Assaf Rutenberg wrote:
>>> Hi all. I also have an Asus Ultra book I have been dying to have *BSD running on it and could use help installing. I can bring media and would be happy to buy drinks and food all around if we could get Free or Open installed on my UX32VD. thanks.
>>>
>> I don't know about that one.  I have successfully installed FreeBSD 9x and
>> 10x on  my ultrabook UX31E.
>>
>> However, wireless only worked with 10x, I couldn't get it working with 9.2.
>> They change the specs from time to time so that's no guarantee of anything.
>> Also, I don't have Windows on the machine.  It seems to me that it was
>> fairly straightforward though--the UX31E comes with a USB to ethernet
>> dongle that was recognized during install by both 9.2 and 10, (but not by
>> some earlier FreeBSD versions.)
>>
>> I also tried to install OpenBSD on it, but couldn't get it to boot--I do't
>> remember the exact error--IIRC, it installed, but upon reboot gave a kernel
>> panic.  In all cases, the machine was sharing the disk with Linux.
>>

If you still get a kernel panic with OpenBSD -current on reboot, please 
file a bug report. We can't fix problems we don't know about.

>> I repeat, this is the UX31E, an older Ultrabook, so your results may not
>> match mine.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Scott Robbins
>> PGP keyID EB3467D6
>> ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
>> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
>>
>



From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jan 13 21:34:05 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 21:34:05 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <52D427E6.5010707@devio.us>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net>
 <52D427E6.5010707@devio.us>
Message-ID: <20140114023405.GA17493@scott1.scottro.net>

On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:52:38PM -0500, Brian Callahan wrote:
> On 1/12/2014 1:48 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't know about that one.  I have successfully installed FreeBSD 9x and
> >>10x on  my ultrabook UX31E.
> >>
> >>I also tried to install OpenBSD on it, but couldn't get it to boot--I do't
> >>remember the exact error--IIRC, it installed, but upon reboot gave a kernel
> >>panic.  In all cases, the machine was sharing the disk with Linux.
> >>
> 
> If you still get a kernel panic with OpenBSD -current on reboot,
> please file a bug report. We can't fix problems we don't know about.

Fair enough, and not aimed as a slight at OpenBSD.  It was just something I
tried during an idle hour, and, when it didn't work, spent no effort trying
to fix. 

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Tue Jan 14 12:19:54 2014
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 17:19:54 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC-Tokyo Connection
Message-ID: <201401141719.s0EHJseR031057@rs101.luxsci.com>


Hi All,

For the new year, I started working on a pfSense Japanese translation, 
and one thing led to another here...

Just a quick heads up, for anyone who *might* be in Tokyo earlier than 
AsiaBSDCon,

   Tokyo FreeBSD Benkyokai Group, Feb. 17, 2014
   "?26? FreeBSD???"
   "pfSense Practical Experiences: from home routers, to 
High-Availability Datacenter Deployments"
   <http://atnd.org/events/47084>

Daichi Goto, a long time committer, organizes this meeting on a regular 
basis.  While the talk will be about pfSense in various contexts, I've 
also been asked to speak about NYC*BUG- and hope to build some bridges 
between Tokyo and NYC!

I'm REALLY looking foreword to learning more about what *BSD things are 
happening in Tokyo, I'll be sure to report back to list...

Best,
.ike




From pete at nomadlogic.org  Tue Jan 14 12:54:32 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:54:32 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] NYC-Tokyo Connection
In-Reply-To: <201401141719.s0EHJseR031057@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201401141719.s0EHJseR031057@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <52D579D8.9090602@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/14/14 09:19, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> For the new year, I started working on a pfSense Japanese translation,
> and one thing led to another here...
> 
> Just a quick heads up, for anyone who *might* be in Tokyo earlier than
> AsiaBSDCon,
> 
>   Tokyo FreeBSD Benkyokai Group, Feb. 17, 2014
>   "?26? FreeBSD???"
>   "pfSense Practical Experiences: from home routers, to
> High-Availability Datacenter Deployments"
>   <http://atnd.org/events/47084>
> 
> Daichi Goto, a long time committer, organizes this meeting on a regular
> basis.  While the talk will be about pfSense in various contexts, I've
> also been asked to speak about NYC*BUG- and hope to build some bridges
> between Tokyo and NYC!
> 
> I'm REALLY looking foreword to learning more about what *BSD things are
> happening in Tokyo, I'll be sure to report back to list...
> 

nice one .ike!  can't wait to hear more about your trip.

-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From bcallah at devio.us  Wed Jan 15 02:44:02 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 02:44:02 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
Message-ID: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>

Hi talk --

For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a 
thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2

Please read the whole thread.

If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all 
are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We 
really do need the funding.

If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any 
subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open 
source projects, please send that thread their way as well.

Everything helps.

Thanks.

~Brian


From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan 15 11:15:33 2014
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:15:33 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
Message-ID: <201401151615.s0FGFXGX005634@rs101.luxsci.com>


On January 15, 2014 02:44:02 AM EST, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:

> Hi talk --
>
> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a 
> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>
> Please read the whole thread.
>
> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you 
> all are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. 
> We really do need the funding.
>
> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any 
> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of 
> open source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>
> Everything helps.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ~Brian

Enlightening.  Long thread short: OpenBSD funds are in short supply, 
and there are pressing needs like the (electric bill for the build 
systems, etc...)

Not sure that NYC can help very easily, but Theo is looking for some 
large corp to pick up the electric bill- directly.  (Interesting 
approach.)

If you care about ssh, pf, OpenBSD, there's one other great way to 
relieve this:

   http://openbsd.org/donations.html

Best,
.ike




From crossd at gmail.com  Wed Jan 15 11:21:56 2014
From: crossd at gmail.com (Dan Cross)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 11:21:56 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>
References: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W6kFzHTC_7m4q3Kw0adSyFOYgjnqkN9RQoNiMgZ5extTA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:

> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>
> Please read the whole thread.
>

I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.

Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at most
of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious developers'
time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
 No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)

Some good points were raised about architecture support; other suggestions
were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority justifications and
total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.

If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We really
> do need the funding.
>

If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find money
is more forthcoming then.

If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>

I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.

Everything helps.
>

I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3 would
be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely to be
profitable.

        - Dan C.
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From ike at blackskyresearch.net  Wed Jan 15 11:38:46 2014
From: ike at blackskyresearch.net (Isaac (.ike) Levy)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:38:46 +0000
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
Message-ID: <201401151638.s0FGckqt013576@rs101.luxsci.com>


On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
>
>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>
>> Please read the whole thread.
>>
>
> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>
> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at most
> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious developers'
> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>  No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>
> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other suggestions
> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority justifications and
> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>
> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We really
>> do need the funding.
>>
>
> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find money
> is more forthcoming then.
>
> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>
>
> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>
> Everything helps.
>>
>
> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3 would
> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely to be
> profitable.
>
>         - Dan C.

Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were 
truly a community run effort.

Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is 
unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been 
on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I 
remember.

OpenBSD is not run by the users.

We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our 
decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago, 
some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and 
critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I 
changed my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent 
that *no* project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which 
architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues 
are just not a "user community" decision.

I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's 
what we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what 
we're doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want 
with our work"

And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for 
*every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the 
*BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need 
to change much in the project itself :)

--
With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a 
contribution today.

Rocket-
.ike




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 15 15:28:02 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 15:28:02 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <201401151638.s0FGckqt013576@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201401151638.s0FGckqt013576@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <52D6EF52.5060102@ceetonetechnology.com>

Isaac (.ike) Levy:
> 
> On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
>>
>>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>>
>>> Please read the whole thread.
>>>
>>
>> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>>
>> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at
>> most
>> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious
>> developers'
>> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>>  No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>>
>> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other
>> suggestions
>> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority
>> justifications and
>> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>>
>> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We
>>> really
>>> do need the funding.
>>>
>>
>> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
>> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find
>> money
>> is more forthcoming then.
>>
>> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>>
>>
>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>>
>> Everything helps.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
>> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
>> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3
>> would
>> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
>> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely
>> to be
>> profitable.
>>
>>         - Dan C.
> 
> Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were
> truly a community run effort.
> 
> Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is
> unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been
> on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I
> remember.
> 
> OpenBSD is not run by the users.
> 
> We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our
> decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago,
> some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and
> critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I changed
> my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent that *no*
> project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
> So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which
> architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues
> are just not a "user community" decision.
> 
> I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's what
> we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what we're
> doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want with our
> work"
> 
> And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for
> *every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the
> *BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need
> to change much in the project itself :)
> 
> -- 
> With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a contribution
> today.
> 

So glad this didn't turn into an online slugfest...

I'm confused by the post though, Dan.  Most open source devs were not
trained in marketing, publicity, whatever.

But I disagree with Ike... it is very typical of community-run efforts.
 They are not driven by share prices and "packaging."

To expect them to have a fully polished operation, which asks money for
the same reasons, essentially, in a different way, is a bit naive.

If you want to "give" money to operations directly or indirectly which
ask nicely and do, er, messed up things with it, as opposed to giving
money to people who ask for it in more crude ways but do things you
like, then I think you may be confusing form and substance.

And long live substance, IMO.

g


From okan at demirmen.com  Wed Jan 15 15:53:42 2014
From: okan at demirmen.com (Okan Demirmen)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 15:53:42 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <CAEoi9W6kFzHTC_7m4q3Kw0adSyFOYgjnqkN9RQoNiMgZ5extTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>
 <CAEoi9W6kFzHTC_7m4q3Kw0adSyFOYgjnqkN9RQoNiMgZ5extTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACs0eVSMT7gYt+CDe=wt-wJqf1Eq2HgBr8txBNBi6+zbOuiJRQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.

Hi Frank,

I think one needs to review some facts before posting blather such as
the above.  Please don't go off without knowning, nor understanding,
what OpenBSD is and is not.  There is quite some reading out there
that touches on this topic which might be helpful to you Frank, and to
others that may now be confused.


From spork at bway.net  Wed Jan 15 16:57:28 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:57:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <CACs0eVSMT7gYt+CDe=wt-wJqf1Eq2HgBr8txBNBi6+zbOuiJRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>
 <CAEoi9W6kFzHTC_7m4q3Kw0adSyFOYgjnqkN9RQoNiMgZ5extTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACs0eVSMT7gYt+CDe=wt-wJqf1Eq2HgBr8txBNBi6+zbOuiJRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B86860C0-7FC6-4435-9CD2-CDEB94E61FF6@bway.net>

On Jan 15, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
> 
> Hi Frank,
> 
> I think one needs to review some facts before posting blather such as
> the above.  Please don't go off without knowning, nor understanding,
> what OpenBSD is and is not.  There is quite some reading out there
> that touches on this topic which might be helpful to you Frank, and to
> others that may now be confused.

I'll be Sgt. Cupcake.

First off, I will admit that I chuckled at the "bake sale" comment
in the thread.  It's no secret that Theo is a bit blunt and perhaps
not a totally pleasant person, but dry wit can sometimes make up for
that.

As for the relevancy of OpenBSD, as someone that's not a *direct*
user of the OS I disagree with Dan.  Even if there were only 100
people running the OS, as long as development continues there will
be other projects watching and pulling fixes, sub-projects and ideas
from the OS.  I can't quote any numbers, but the number of fixes
taken upstream by FreeBSD, NetBSD and from there Apple, Microsoft
and Linux is huge.  If you use a computer, you benefit from the work
OpenBSD does, regardless of whether you're running OpenBSD.  You
also benefit from Theo's irascibility, as his management style, like
it or not, is in part responsible for the quality of code that comes
out of the project.  And it does get press attention.

It's not just OpenSSH, although these days I cannot find a
commercial device with a cli interface either at home or at work
that does not use OpenSSH.  And I do not want maintainership of that
project taken over by that popular open source OS that begins with
an "L".  Not a total dig on the code quality from that group of
projects, but it's a great example of injecting some developer
heterogeneousness into the security landscape.

I am continually shocked at how so many large companies embed
OpenSSH and can't be bothered to help fund development.  But I
suppose that was part of the point of the thread - the OpenBSD
community is small, but everyone knows someone, and that someone may
work in a shop that buys lots of stuff from some of these
"freeloading" vendors.  Those people can in turn push their sales
reps for some explanation as to why absent a requirement to give
back, they choose not to.  I like this plan.  Everyone needs to
spread word of this situation to people in their tech universe.

Charles


> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan 15 17:15:26 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 14:15:26 -0800
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <B86860C0-7FC6-4435-9CD2-CDEB94E61FF6@bway.net>
References: <52D63C42.1060407@devio.us>
 <CAEoi9W6kFzHTC_7m4q3Kw0adSyFOYgjnqkN9RQoNiMgZ5extTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACs0eVSMT7gYt+CDe=wt-wJqf1Eq2HgBr8txBNBi6+zbOuiJRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <B86860C0-7FC6-4435-9CD2-CDEB94E61FF6@bway.net>
Message-ID: <52D7087E.9040407@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/15/14 13:57, Charles Sprickman wrote:
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Okan Demirmen wrote:

> I am continually shocked at how so many large companies embed
> OpenSSH and can't be bothered to help fund development.  But I
> suppose that was part of the point of the thread - the OpenBSD
> community is small, but everyone knows someone, and that someone may
> work in a shop that buys lots of stuff from some of these
> "freeloading" vendors.  Those people can in turn push their sales
> reps for some explanation as to why absent a requirement to give
> back, they choose not to.  I like this plan.  Everyone needs to
> spread word of this situation to people in their tech universe.
> 
> Charles


i think that's a great approach there!  by asking them in this way
hopefully it will cause some of these vendors (large and small) to think
about this important aspect of the OSS ecosystem.

-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 15 22:44:57 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:44:57 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] Help me install a BSD on a notebook
In-Reply-To: <20140114023405.GA17493@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <52D17D2E.4020301@verizon.net>
 <52D1AACC.6070205@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <2df14636-2611-4ea8-9b97-1f04eb15b96a@email.android.com>
 <20140112172520.GA29938@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20140112184812.GB30737@scott1.scottro.net> <52D427E6.5010707@devio.us>
 <20140114023405.GA17493@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <52D755B9.10806@ceetonetechnology.com>

Scott Robbins:
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:52:38PM -0500, Brian Callahan wrote:
>> On 1/12/2014 1:48 PM, Scott Robbins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't know about that one.  I have successfully installed FreeBSD 9x and
>>>> 10x on  my ultrabook UX31E.
>>>>
>>>> I also tried to install OpenBSD on it, but couldn't get it to boot--I do't


So I booked the backroom of Suspenders for Tuesday, Jan 21 from 630 PM on.

For those interested in doing the laptop installs who posted earlier..
let me know if it works.  Then we can sort out details here.

g



From ericshane at eradman.com  Thu Jan 16 16:39:52 2014
From: ericshane at eradman.com (Eric Radman)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 16:39:52 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <201401151615.s0FGFXGX005634@rs101.luxsci.com>
References: <201401151615.s0FGFXGX005634@rs101.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <20140116213952.GB14424@vm.eradman.com>

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 04:15:33PM +0000, Isaac (.ike) Levy wrote:
> 
> On January 15, 2014 02:44:02 AM EST, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> 
> wrote:
> 
> >Hi talk --
> >
> >For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a 
> >thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
> >http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
> >
> >Please read the whole thread.

As far as I know there's no such thing as volunteer power or bandwidth.
Or is there? I'm sure some of the stories behind such arrangements are
remarkable. I'll put it down on my conference survey...

Eric


From kc4zvw at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 19 21:03:47 2014
From: kc4zvw at earthlink.net (David Billsbrough)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:03:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
Message-ID: <E1W54DL-0001nr-Bs@debian.oau.org>

In a short response to an email I wrote:
 
> I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in FreeBSD
>  https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
> Did I mangle it too bad?

regards,

David
-- 
David Billsbrough (KC4ZVW)  Chuluota, Florida  Grid Loc: EL98kp
Web: http://www.kc4zvw.us --- Blog: http://kc4zvw.wordpress.com
AMSAT * AVR * FreeBSD * Linux * PICmicro * QRP * Raspi * TAPR


From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Sun Jan 19 21:43:00 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:43:00 -0500
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <E1W54DL-0001nr-Bs@debian.oau.org>
References: <E1W54DL-0001nr-Bs@debian.oau.org>
Message-ID: <20140120024300.GA12157@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:03:47PM -0500, David Billsbrough wrote:
> In a short response to an email I wrote:
>  
> > I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in FreeBSD
> >  https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
> > Did I mangle it too bad?

The question is, what do they mean?  Do they mean the fact that it can
literally take hours to install what may take a few moments in Linux?  Do
they mean that they may have installed a package, then installed a port to
find that it insisted on redoing everything the package did?  

For example, if they install 10 tonight, then go to add xorg-server with
pkg install, they'll find that (at least as of 18:00 EST tonight) that pkg
will come back with can't find xorg-server.  As X is a pretty major thing
for those who aren't running servers, someone giving it a try after some
time away will say, Sheesh, they *still* can't get packaging right.

Not to mention if they do install it from packages, without adding
WITH_NEW_XORG=yes to /etc/make.conf, they'll get a rather old version of X. 

So rather than take a, What are you talking about, approach, I think that I
(but let's face it, I'm a wimp) would first ask what they meant exactly,
then admit that no, it's still far from perfect--as another example, if you
install openbox with pkg install before xorg-server, because, for example,
yhou forgot that you didn't install xorg-server, then go to install
xorg-server, which, as mentioned, you'll find isn't available, then go to
install it from ports, it will fail, due to some changes in dri and libGL
that are mentioned in UPDATING.  

So, I think I would certainly concede it's far from perfect.
For someone who is used to a (usually) working apt-get or yum, it still
requires some knowledge to mix ports and packages--on the FreeBSD forums,
it's usually advised to not do so unless you have some idea of what you're
doing.  

So, I think I would first find out what the person meant by packaging
woes--especially in writing, the What are you talking about line can easily
be misinterpreted as, You don't know what you're talking about.  Then, it's
easier to answer their concerns, and probably worth, IMHO, but as I said,
I'm a wimp, that it is certainly not perfect.  


(Unless of course, you want to argue with the person--not being familiar
with that particular list, it's always possible that that's the aim.)  :)



-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From kc4zvw at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 19 22:35:51 2014
From: kc4zvw at earthlink.net (David Billsbrough)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 22:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20140120024300.GA12157@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <E1W55eR-0001xO-96@debian.oau.org>

Scott Robbins wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:03:47PM -0500, David Billsbrough wrote:

>>> I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in FreeBSD
>>>  https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
>>> Did I mangle it too bad?

> The question is, what do they mean?  Do they mean the fact that it can
> literally take hours to install what may take a few moments in Linux?  Do
> they mean that they may have installed a package, then installed a port to
> find that it insisted on redoing everything the package did?  

In previous discussions with Steve, he hinted that building from source
takes a while bit LONGER than install pre-compiled packages.  I think
this is a given so Steve will have to decide for a given application
if have a machine starting with a minimal footprint and only building
packages needed from ports is a better idea.

For a machine of mine that servers as a web server I like the idea of
building from a ports system.  I do also run several Linux machines as
a primary desktop and for other projects.  For this web server running
a script to call portsnap and another to call portupgrade to keep this
system upgraded is fairly easy.  Warning though as you do need to keep
a very close eye to the contents of the UPDATE file and the notes that
apply to packages installed on the machine.


> So, I think I would certainly concede it's far from perfect.
> For someone who is used to a (usually) working apt-get or yum, it still
> requires some knowledge to mix ports and packages--on the FreeBSD forums,
> it's usually advised to not do so unless you have some idea of what you're
> doing.  

I haven't really mixed too many pre-built packages and build also with
ports system and really would NOT want to maintain a system that way.

Recently have tried running a image of FreeBSD 9.2 in an Oracle Virtualbox
to experiment with stuff I wouldn't be installing on a machine used as
a web server.  I might get to play around with 'pkg' and stuff in this
environment.

regards,

David
-- 
David Billsbrough (KC4ZVW)  Chuluota, Florida  Grid Loc: EL98kp
Web: http://www.kc4zvw.us --- Blog: http://kc4zvw.wordpress.com
AMSAT * AVR * FreeBSD * Linux * PICmicro * QRP * Raspi * TAPR


From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jan 20 05:56:17 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:56:17 -0500
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20140120024300.GA12157@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <E1W54DL-0001nr-Bs@debian.oau.org>
 <20140120024300.GA12157@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <20140120105616.GA15800@scott1.scottro.net>

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:43:00PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:03:47PM -0500, David Billsbrough wrote:
> > In a short response to an email I wrote:
> >  
> > > I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in FreeBSD
> > >  https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
> > > Did I mangle it too bad?
> 
> The question is, what do they mean?  Do they mean the fact that it can
> literally take hours to install what may take a few moments in Linux?  Do
> they mean that they may have installed a package, then installed a port to
> find that it insisted on redoing everything the package did?  

Y'know, I'd forgotten about the time when there was a security breach, and
for awhile, there were no packages available, and then, while the handbook
was recommending pkgng, there were no packages available for that.  That
_might_ have been what your friend was referring to.  If that's the case,
then the answer is Yes, they've fixed their package woes.  

While there aren't (and I'm sure this will always be the case) packages
available for absolutely everything, things like firefox, as an example of a package
that many who use X will consider essential and take a long time to build,
are available in package form for FreeBSD-10.  Right now  (or as of
yesterday evening) the big missing package is xorg-server, but many of hte
other common X programs are already avaialable as packages.  (For those who
haven't kept up, it's now pkg install, not pkg_add -r, and nothing needs to
be added to make.conf, nor do you still need to create a
/usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf file)

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From jhb at freebsd.org  Mon Jan 20 15:45:28 2014
From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:45:28 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] APU
In-Reply-To: <52D47293.2020409@thegridsource.com>
References: <52B1D2F6.5010508@thegridsource.com>
 <201401131505.56157.jhb@freebsd.org> <52D47293.2020409@thegridsource.com>
Message-ID: <2828994.gFPb4n4ofm@pippin.baldwin.cx>

On Monday 13 January 2014 18:11:15 Jared Davenport wrote:
> On 01/13/2014 03:05 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:03:52 pm Jared Davenport wrote:
> >> On 01/09/2014 05:50 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, January 09, 2014 02:40:06 PM Jared Davenport
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On 01/09/2014 10:13 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> >>>>> Jared Davenport:
> >>>>>> On 12/19/2013 10:45 AM, George Rosamond wrote:
> >>>>>>> Jared Davenport:
> >>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 11:45 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
> >>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> 22:57]:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/18/2013 09:11 PM, Jim B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> * Jared Davenport <jared at thegridsource.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> [2013-12-18
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 12:20]:
> >>>>>>>>> [snip]
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I went ahead and added those lines.  Here is the
> >>>>>>>>>> verbose
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> output: http://pastebin.com/DUhrt8uP
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Ok, I didn't see anything odd.  I would note
> >>>>>>>>> however that FreeBSD 10-RCx is still undergoing
> >>>>>>>>> fixes prior to release.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> pfsense 2.1 (latest stable version) is actually
> >>>>>>>>> based on FreeBSD 8.3 according to the release
> >>>>>>>>> notes.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> If all you want to do is get your board to run
> >>>>>>>>> FreeBSD, try
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> installing a slightly older version - 9.1, 9.2, or
> >>>>>>>>> even
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> 8.3 directly.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Releases for amd64 are at:
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Good call on that.  I tried the same configuration,
> >>>>>>>> with FreeBSD 8.4, and it worked!
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> FreeBSD 8.4 dmesgd:
> >>>>>>>> http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2505
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Thanks for posting JD!
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> FreeBSD 9.2 and FreeBSD 10 were a no-go.  I'm still
> >>>>>>>> not sure why.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Well, the obvious to me would be using mbr v gpt.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> What does the BIOS look like?  That could very much
> >>>>>>> matter.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> That very well could be it.  The BIOS says it's coreboot
> >>>>>> 2.08.00,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> specifically,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> coreboot-EDK_2.08.00_20130410_221-1434-g871c820-dirty
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I've added the BIOS message here:
> >>>>>> http://pastebin.com/111eTfZm
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> also, for troubleshooting, I believe that these two
> >>>>>>> should help in the /etc/rc.conf:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> rc_debug="YES" rc_info="YES"
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I need to get my hands on one or more of these too...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Reraising the thread...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Did you order through a reseller in the US or through PC
> >>>>> Engines directly?  Pricing?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I have a bunch of place I could start using these in the
> >>>>> very near-term.. replacing a lot of older Soekrii and
> >>>>> Alixen.
> >>>> 
> >>>> PC-Engines directly.  This is beta hardware and isn't
> >>>> production-ready quite yet.  There will be a few changes to
> >>>> the final version.
> >>>> 
> >>>> For instance, moving from the AMD T40N to the T40E, to save
> >>>> power and heat.  The current version, I'm told, has problems
> >>>> with heat dissipation, though I've not experienced any issues
> >>>> first-hand.
> >>> 
> >>> Does 9.2 still hang on boot?  If so, can you get a verbose
> >>> dmesg from 9.2 and 'devinfo -u' and 'devinfo -rv' output from
> >>> 8.4?
> >> 
> >> Sorry for the long wait,
> >> 
> >> Here are the outputs:
> >> 
> >> devinfo -rv http://pastebin.com/QYKd6Mvq
> >> 
> >> devinfo -u http://pastebin.com/rUgPgGkm
> >> 
> >> root@:~ # uname -a FreeBSD  8.4-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE #0
> >> r251259: Sun Jun  2 21:26:57 UTC 2013
> >> root at bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64
> > 
> > Ahh, the BIOS is just broken.  For the pcib0 device, it is
> > claiming the entire PCI memio window as a consumer when it should
> > be a resource producer.  Note that it got this correct for I/O
> > ports, but not memory.
> > 
> > Do you have the acpidump handy?
> 
> Here you go.  http://pastebin.com/cG57Wtk8 :)

This is the busted part:

            Name (CRES, ResourceTemplate ()
            {
                IO (Decode16,
                    0x0CF8,             // Range Minimum
                    0x0CF8,             // Range Maximum
                    0x01,               // Alignment
                    0x08,               // Length
                    )
                WordIO (ResourceProducer, MinFixed, MaxFixed, PosDecode, 
EntireRange,
                    0x0000,             // Granularity
                    0x0000,             // Range Minimum
                    0x0CF7,             // Range Maximum
                    0x0000,             // Translation Offset
                    0x0CF8,             // Length
                    ,, , TypeStatic)
                WordIO (ResourceProducer, MinFixed, MaxFixed, PosDecode, 
EntireRange,
                    0x0000,             // Granularity
                    0x0D00,             // Range Minimum
                    0xFFFF,             // Range Maximum
                    0x0000,             // Translation Offset
                    0xF300,             // Length
                    ,, , TypeStatic)
                Memory32Fixed (ReadOnly,
                    0x000A0000,         // Address Base
                    0x00020000,         // Address Length
                    )
                Memory32Fixed (ReadOnly,
                    0x00000000,         // Address Base
                    0x00000000,         // Address Length
                    )
            })
            Method (_CRS, 0, NotSerialized)
            {
                CreateDWordField (CRES, 0x38, MM1B)
                CreateDWordField (CRES, 0x3C, MM1L)
                Store (TOM1, MM1B)
                ShiftLeft (0x10000000, 0x04, Local0)
                Subtract (Local0, TOM1, Local0)
                Store (Local0, MM1L)
                Return (CRES)
            }

The problem here is the Memory32Fixed resources should instead be 
ResourceProducer resources like the WordIO resources above.  Otherwise, the 
BIOS is claiming that the PCI0 device consumes those resources rather than 
making them available to child devices.  A similar entry on my laptop 
(ThinkPad x220) looks like this:

                DWordMemory (ResourceProducer, PosDecode, MinFixed, MaxFixed, 
Cacheable, ReadWrite,
                    0x00000000,         // Granularity
                    0x000A0000,         // Range Minimum
                    0x000BFFFF,         // Range Maximum
                    0x00000000,         // Translation Offset
                    0x00020000,         // Length
                    ,, , AddressRangeMemory, TypeStatic)

I haven't looked at the new BIOS posted to the list yet, but you could search 
for 'ResourceProducer' in the acpidump to see if this has changed.  It should 
only be used for the Host-PCI bridge device.

-- 
John Baldwin


From raulcuza at gmail.com  Mon Jan 20 21:32:47 2014
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ra=C3=BAl_Cuza?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 21:32:47 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <52D6EF52.5060102@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <201401151638.s0FGckqt013576@rs101.luxsci.com>
 <52D6EF52.5060102@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <8E3C1715-7B36-4ACD-B475-11167EC006D6@gmail.com>

Sent without help from A.I. | ' L ' | 

> On Jan 15, 2014, at 15:28, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> Isaac (.ike) Levy:
>> 
>>> On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>>>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>>>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>>> 
>>>> Please read the whole thread.
>>> 
>>> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>>> 
>>> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at
>>> most
>>> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious
>>> developers'
>>> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>>> No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>>> 
>>> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other
>>> suggestions
>>> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority
>>> justifications and
>>> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>>> 
>>> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>>>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We
>>>> really
>>>> do need the funding.
>>> 
>>> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
>>> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find
>>> money
>>> is more forthcoming then.
>>> 
>>> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>>>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>>>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>> 
>>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities that
>>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them forward.  Or
>>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>>> 
>>> Everything helps.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
>>> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
>>> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3
>>> would
>>> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
>>> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely
>>> to be
>>> profitable.
>>> 
>>>        - Dan C.
>> 
>> Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were
>> truly a community run effort.
>> 
>> Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is
>> unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been
>> on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I
>> remember.
>> 
>> OpenBSD is not run by the users.
>> 
>> We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our
>> decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago,
>> some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and
>> critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I changed
>> my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent that *no*
>> project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
>> So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which
>> architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues
>> are just not a "user community" decision.
>> 
>> I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's what
>> we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what we're
>> doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want with our
>> work"
>> 
>> And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for
>> *every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the
>> *BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need
>> to change much in the project itself :)
>> 
>> -- 
>> With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a contribution
>> today.
> 
> So glad this didn't turn into an online slugfest...
> 
> I'm confused by the post though, Dan.  Most open source devs were not
> trained in marketing, publicity, whatever.
> 
> But I disagree with Ike... it is very typical of community-run efforts.
> They are not driven by share prices and "packaging."
> 
> To expect them to have a fully polished operation, which asks money for
> the same reasons, essentially, in a different way, is a bit naive.
> 
> If you want to "give" money to operations directly or indirectly which
> ask nicely and do, er, messed up things with it, as opposed to giving
> money to people who ask for it in more crude ways but do things you
> like, then I think you may be confusing form and substance.
> 
> And long live substance, IMO.
> 
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

It looks like someone saved the day. 

http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/19/romanian-billionaire-saves-openbsd/ (I did not check the veracity of this page.)
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From bcallah at devio.us  Mon Jan 20 21:37:15 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 21:37:15 -0500
Subject: [nycbug-talk] OpenBSD and funding
In-Reply-To: <8E3C1715-7B36-4ACD-B475-11167EC006D6@gmail.com>
References: <201401151638.s0FGckqt013576@rs101.luxsci.com>
 <52D6EF52.5060102@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <8E3C1715-7B36-4ACD-B475-11167EC006D6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52DDDD5B.1040409@devio.us>

On 1/20/2014 9:32 PM, Ra?l Cuza wrote:
> Sent without help from A.I. | ' L ' |
>
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 15:28, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com
> <mailto:george at ceetonetechnology.com>> wrote:
>
>> Isaac (.ike) Levy:
>>>
>>> On January 15, 2014 11:21:56 AM EST, Dan Cross <crossd at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:crossd at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 2:44 AM, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us
>>>> <mailto:bcallah at devio.us>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For those of you not subscribed to the OpenBSD misc@ list, here's a
>>>>> thread you should read, especially if you use OpenBSD:
>>>>> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723&w=2
>>>>>
>>>>> Please read the whole thread.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I read the whole thing.  I will not be donating.
>>>>
>>>> Theo really comes off in poor form, throwing sarcasm and dismissal at
>>>> most
>>>> of the suggestions ("How dare you suggest we take our precious
>>>> developers'
>>>> time to do something to save our precious project!  Don't we do enough?"
>>>> No, clearly you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be in this boat.)
>>>>
>>>> Some good points were raised about architecture support; other
>>>> suggestions
>>>> were made.  Theo's snarky responses, appeal to authority
>>>> justifications and
>>>> total unwillingness to even consider changes convinced me not to donate.
>>>>
>>>> If you're using OpenBSD, or using one of our sub-projects (which you all
>>>>> are), please think long and hard before dismissing that thread. We
>>>>> really
>>>>> do need the funding.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you really need the funding, perhaps you could convince the project
>>>> leader not to be such a jerk?  At least not in public?  You may find
>>>> money
>>>> is more forthcoming then.
>>>>
>>>> If you work in or know someone in a company that uses OpenBSD (or any
>>>>> subprojects) or just one that likes to toss some money the way of open
>>>>> source projects, please send that thread their way as well.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll be frank: a subset of the sub-projects are what is important, not
>>>> OpenBSD itself.  OpenBSD seems to slide further and further from overall
>>>> relevance with each release.  If OpenBSD fails, then the communities
>>>> that
>>>> care about the sub-projects will pick them up and carry them
>>>> forward.  Or
>>>> not; but for OpenBSD itself?  Well, nobody mourns the death of PR1ME.
>>>>
>>>> Everything helps.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if they've ever stopped to wonder WHY funding seems to be
>>>> shrinking.  Perhaps that would be step 1.  Step 2 would be to try and
>>>> figure out how to mitigate some of the costs of the project.  Step 3
>>>> would
>>>> be to solicit funds.  But when one's hand is out holding one's hat,
>>>> insulting the very people one is seeking assistance from is unlikely
>>>> to be
>>>> profitable.
>>>>
>>>>        - Dan C.
>>>
>>> Your opinion and stance feels pretty rational Dan, if the project were
>>> truly a community run effort.
>>>
>>> Regarding "insulting" users?  I feel you there.  But, if that is
>>> unacceptable, then OpenBSD dev lists aren't for you :)  I haven't been
>>> on misc@ in a decade, but that post is nothing, comparied to what I
>>> remember.
>>>
>>> OpenBSD is not run by the users.
>>>
>>> We all may feel invested in it, but at the end of the day, it's not our
>>> decision what to do.  I for one am grateful for this stance: years ago,
>>> some issues in OpenBSD land, (binary blobs), I used to waffle on- and
>>> critized the project for being so hard about.  Over the years, I changed
>>> my tune- and this year, thanks to S n o w d e n, it's apparent that *no*
>>> project is taking issues like binary blobs far enough :)
>>> So, I find Theo's hard stance here refreshing.  Things like which
>>> architectures to support, or other technical and organizational issues
>>> are just not a "user community" decision.
>>>
>>> I think Theo should even be lauded for his directness here- "Here's what
>>> we're doing, we're looking for help from people who like what we're
>>> doing, and btw the world can all have/fork/do whatever you want with our
>>> work"
>>>
>>> And, regarding funding drying up- this happens over the years for
>>> *every* open source project, and it's certainly happened to all the
>>> *BSD's in this young century.  I'm not sure it's a sign that they need
>>> to change much in the project itself :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> With that, as a primarily FreeBSD user, I'm proud to make a contribution
>>> today.
>>>
>>
>> So glad this didn't turn into an online slugfest...
>>
>> I'm confused by the post though, Dan.  Most open source devs were not
>> trained in marketing, publicity, whatever.
>>
>> But I disagree with Ike... it is very typical of community-run efforts.
>> They are not driven by share prices and "packaging."
>>
>> To expect them to have a fully polished operation, which asks money for
>> the same reasons, essentially, in a different way, is a bit naive.
>>
>> If you want to "give" money to operations directly or indirectly which
>> ask nicely and do, er, messed up things with it, as opposed to giving
>> money to people who ask for it in more crude ways but do things you
>> like, then I think you may be confusing form and substance.
>>
>> And long live substance, IMO.
>>
>> g
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org <mailto:talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> It looks like someone saved the day.
>
> http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/19/romanian-billionaire-saves-openbsd/ (I
> did not check the veracity of this page.)
>

You should read this instead:
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=139024400731106&w=2

~Brian



From justin at shiningsilence.com  Mon Jan 20 22:02:56 2014
From: justin at shiningsilence.com (Justin Sherrill)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 22:02:56 -0500
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20140120105616.GA15800@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <E1W54DL-0001nr-Bs@debian.oau.org>
 <20140120024300.GA12157@scott1.scottro.net>
 <20140120105616.GA15800@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <CA+YR8=0KVhb1Z_9KJ2Dtk=h_Yg32HqeLRcyanRLL71WpEkU1pg@mail.gmail.com>

For what it's worth, DragonFly BSD switched to using pkg as a tool for
managing port binaries about halfway through the previous release.  It's a
much nicer way to do things.  When all the packages are there (and 'pkg
search' helps a lot with identifying packages), it's very DWIMmy.

DragonFly was using pkgsrc before switching to pkg/dports, and it's almost
impossible to manage software in an all-binary format with pkgsrc.  And
building from source isn't much fun either, but that holds for any
packaging system.


On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Scott Robbins <scottro at nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:43:00PM -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:03:47PM -0500, David Billsbrough wrote:
> > > In a short response to an email I wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in FreeBSD
> > > >  https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
> > > > Did I mangle it too bad?
> >
> > The question is, what do they mean?  Do they mean the fact that it can
> > literally take hours to install what may take a few moments in Linux?  Do
> > they mean that they may have installed a package, then installed a port
> to
> > find that it insisted on redoing everything the package did?
>
> Y'know, I'd forgotten about the time when there was a security breach, and
> for awhile, there were no packages available, and then, while the handbook
> was recommending pkgng, there were no packages available for that.  That
> _might_ have been what your friend was referring to.  If that's the case,
> then the answer is Yes, they've fixed their package woes.
>
> While there aren't (and I'm sure this will always be the case) packages
> available for absolutely everything, things like firefox, as an example of
> a package
> that many who use X will consider essential and take a long time to build,
> are available in package form for FreeBSD-10.  Right now  (or as of
> yesterday evening) the big missing package is xorg-server, but many of hte
> other common X programs are already avaialable as packages.  (For those who
> haven't kept up, it's now pkg install, not pkg_add -r, and nothing needs to
> be added to make.conf, nor do you still need to create a
> /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf file)
>
> --
> Scott Robbins
> PGP keyID EB3467D6
> ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From matt at atopia.net  Tue Jan 21 14:08:23 2014
From: matt at atopia.net (Matt Juszczak)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:08:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Good caldav solution from ports?
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1401211907350.81091@endeavour.bitlancer.net>

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a good caldav solution from ports?  I looked at 
Radicale and davical, but trying to find if there's a "main" one that's 
recommended.  Super light-weight and MySQL backed would be good.

Thanks!

-Matt


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Tue Jan 21 14:21:50 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:21:50 -0800
Subject: FreeBSD-10 pkg Heads Up
Message-ID: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>

Hey All,
This bit me this morning and figured I'd pass along the info.  I
upgraded my workstation to FreeBSD-10.0-RELEASE from the latest release
candidate.  that went fine.  then i attempted to upgrade my packages and
found that nothing needed to be upgraded...interesting.  i then went to
re-install the nvidia xorg driver to make the nvidia.ko match my new
kernel and it complained about xorg-server not being available.  odd.
after some digging it looks like i needed to create a new repo.  Here
was my existing repo config:

> cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf 
FreeBSD: {
  url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/latest",
  mirror_type: "srv",
  enabled: yes
}


I created a new repository pointing to this releases packages like so:
> cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-rel10.conf 
FreeBSD-10-rel: {
  url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/release/0",
  mirror_type: "srv",
  enabled: yes
}

I'm back in business now.  Not sure if this was in the release notes or
not (i may have missed it).  Hopefully this helps someone else out!

Cheers,
-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From spork at bway.net  Tue Jan 21 15:59:00 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 15:59:00 -0500
Subject: Good caldav solution from ports?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1401211907350.81091@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1401211907350.81091@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
Message-ID: <CB3C63FC-CE18-4209-B57C-579590DABE7D@bway.net>

On Jan 21, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Matt Juszczak wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good caldav solution from ports?  I looked at Radicale and davical, but trying to find if there's a "main" one that's recommended.  Super light-weight and MySQL backed would be good.

Last time I looked (restricting myself to ports) I did not find anything else.  That said, I settled on davical and it's been a set-and-forget setup for a handful of users so far (2+ years).

Charles

> Thanks!
> 
> -Matt
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From justin at shiningsilence.com  Tue Jan 21 19:50:01 2014
From: justin at shiningsilence.com (Justin Sherrill)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:50:01 -0500
Subject: Good caldav solution from ports?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1401211907350.81091@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1401211907350.81091@endeavour.bitlancer.net>
Message-ID: <CA+YR8=0_553yszcN1XhNrepFk+nHcJ9UXR7Yos3mai=t9v7QGw@mail.gmail.com>

I just had someone recommend Radicale yesterday on IRC (to someone else; I
haven't tried it).

There, now you have two recommendations that completely don't match.


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Matt Juszczak <matt at atopia.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone recommend a good caldav solution from ports?  I looked at
> Radicale and davical, but trying to find if there's a "main" one that's
> recommended.  Super light-weight and MySQL backed would be good.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Matt
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From mark.saad at ymail.com  Wed Jan 22 14:20:04 2014
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
Message-ID: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi Talk
  I am thinking about replacing my Net4801 and I was wondering what other options are out there ?
I am running pfsense on it but I am open to other setups.


--
Mark Saad
mark.saad at ymail.com


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan 22 15:27:29 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:27:29 -0800
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>

I recently replaced my Net4801 with a pc-engines ALIX board.  been very
happy with it so far.  it has been out performing my Net4801 which isn't
too much of a shocker due to the more performant CPU.

I purchased it from netgate.com - this is pretty much the kit i bought:

http://store.netgate.com/ALIX2D3-2D13-Kit-Black-Unassembled-P172.aspx

-pete

On 01/22/14 11:20, Mark Saad wrote:
> Hi Talk
>   I am thinking about replacing my Net4801 and I was wondering what other options are out there ?
> I am running pfsense on it but I am open to other setups.
> 
> 
> --
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 22 15:29:15 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:29:15 -0500
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52E02A1B.2000508@ceetonetechnology.com>

Mark Saad:
> Hi Talk
>   I am thinking about replacing my Net4801 and I was wondering what other options are out there ?
> I am running pfsense on it but I am open to other setups.

So since pfSense is only running on x86 right now, I would default to
one of the newer Soekris or an Alix board, such as the upcoming APUs
discussed before.

But there are more and more of those and mini-ITX sized devices around.
 Anyone using similar fanless boards on x86?  Minnowboard?

g



From mark.saad at ymail.com  Wed Jan 22 15:23:35 2014
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 12:23:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <CA+YR8=0KVhb1Z_9KJ2Dtk=h_Yg32HqeLRcyanRLL71WpEkU1pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1390422215.9417.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>




--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/21/14, Justin Sherrill <justin at shiningsilence.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: very short overview of FreeBSD packages (fwd)
 To: "NYC*BUG Talk mail list" <talk at lists.nycbug.org>
 Date: Tuesday, January 21, 2014, 3:02 AM
 
 For what it's worth,
 DragonFly BSD switched to using pkg as a tool for managing
 port binaries about halfway through the previous release.
 ?It's a much nicer way to do things. ?When all the
 packages are there (and 'pkg search' helps a lot
 with identifying packages), it's very DWIMmy.
 
On a related note I added the dports content to mirrors.nycbug.org add this as a local repo

http://mirrors.nycbug.org/pub/DragonflyBSD/dports/


 DragonFly was using pkgsrc before switching to
 pkg/dports, and it's almost impossible to manage
 software in an all-binary format with pkgsrc. ?And building
 from source isn't much fun either, but that holds for
 any packaging system.
 
 
 On Mon, Jan 20, 2014
 at 5:56 AM, Scott Robbins <scottro at nyc.rr.com>
 wrote:
 
 On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:43:00PM
 -0500, Scott Robbins wrote:
 
 > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:03:47PM -0500, David
 Billsbrough wrote:
 
 > > In a short response to an email I wrote:
 
 > >
 
 > > > I am attempting to explain ports/packaging in
 FreeBSD
 
 > > > ?https://www.dropbox.com/s/q07d2ah7zlyv8d0/ports_and_packages.txt
 
 > > > Did I mangle it too bad?
 
 >
 
 > The question is, what do they mean? ?Do they mean the
 fact that it can
 
 > literally take hours to install what may take a few
 moments in Linux? ?Do
 
 > they mean that they may have installed a package, then
 installed a port to
 
 > find that it insisted on redoing everything the package
 did?
 
 
 
 Y'know, I'd forgotten about the time when
 there was a security breach, and
 
 for awhile, there were no packages available, and then,
 while the handbook
 
 was recommending pkgng, there were no packages available for
 that. ?That
 
 _might_ have been what your friend was referring to. ?If
 that's the case,
 
 then the answer is Yes, they've fixed their package
 woes.
 
 
 
 While there aren't (and I'm sure this will always be
 the case) packages
 
 available for absolutely everything, things like firefox, as
 an example of a package
 
 that many who use X will consider essential and take a long
 time to build,
 
 are available in package form for FreeBSD-10. ?Right now
 ?(or as of
 
 yesterday evening) the big missing package is xorg-server,
 but many of hte
 
 other common X programs are already avaialable as packages.
 ?(For those who
 
 haven't kept up, it's now pkg install, not pkg_add
 -r, and nothing needs to
 
 be added to make.conf, nor do you still need to create a
 
 /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf file)
 
 
 
 --
 
 Scott Robbins
 
 PGP keyID EB3467D6
 
 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
 
 gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys
 EB3467D6
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 talk mailing list
 
 talk at lists.nycbug.org
 
 http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
 
 
 
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 _______________________________________________
 talk mailing list
 talk at lists.nycbug.org
 http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



From jhb at freebsd.org  Wed Jan 22 16:04:38 2014
From: jhb at freebsd.org (John Baldwin)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:04:38 -0500
Subject: FreeBSD-10 pkg Heads Up
In-Reply-To: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>
References: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>

On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 2:21:50 pm Pete Wright wrote:
> Hey All,
> This bit me this morning and figured I'd pass along the info.  I
> upgraded my workstation to FreeBSD-10.0-RELEASE from the latest release
> candidate.  that went fine.  then i attempted to upgrade my packages and
> found that nothing needed to be upgraded...interesting.  i then went to
> re-install the nvidia xorg driver to make the nvidia.ko match my new
> kernel and it complained about xorg-server not being available.  odd.
> after some digging it looks like i needed to create a new repo.  Here
> was my existing repo config:
> 
> > cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf 
> FreeBSD: {
>   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/latest",
>   mirror_type: "srv",
>   enabled: yes
> }
> 
> 
> I created a new repository pointing to this releases packages like so:
> > cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-rel10.conf 
> FreeBSD-10-rel: {
>   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/release/0",
>   mirror_type: "srv",
>   enabled: yes
> }
> 
> I'm back in business now.  Not sure if this was in the release notes or
> not (i may have missed it).  Hopefully this helps someone else out!

Do you even need a FreeBSD.conf file?  I think at one point that was in
the early adopters instructions, but I think the current state is that
pkg should work out of the box without needing any conf files.  Perhaps try 
renaming /usr/local/etc/pkg to /usr/local/etc/pkg.old and see if pkg works 
correctly.  (If not you can move pkg.old back.)

-- 
John Baldwin


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan 22 16:33:04 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:33:04 -0800
Subject: FreeBSD-10 pkg Heads Up
In-Reply-To: <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
References: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>
 <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <52E03910.1040702@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/22/14 13:04, John Baldwin wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 2:21:50 pm Pete Wright wrote:
>> Hey All,
>> This bit me this morning and figured I'd pass along the info.  I
>> upgraded my workstation to FreeBSD-10.0-RELEASE from the latest release
>> candidate.  that went fine.  then i attempted to upgrade my packages and
>> found that nothing needed to be upgraded...interesting.  i then went to
>> re-install the nvidia xorg driver to make the nvidia.ko match my new
>> kernel and it complained about xorg-server not being available.  odd.
>> after some digging it looks like i needed to create a new repo.  Here
>> was my existing repo config:
>>
>>> cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf 
>> FreeBSD: {
>>   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/latest",
>>   mirror_type: "srv",
>>   enabled: yes
>> }
>>
>>
>> I created a new repository pointing to this releases packages like so:
>>> cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-rel10.conf 
>> FreeBSD-10-rel: {
>>   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/release/0",
>>   mirror_type: "srv",
>>   enabled: yes
>> }
>>
>> I'm back in business now.  Not sure if this was in the release notes or
>> not (i may have missed it).  Hopefully this helps someone else out!
> 
> Do you even need a FreeBSD.conf file?  I think at one point that was in
> the early adopters instructions, but I think the current state is that
> pkg should work out of the box without needing any conf files.  Perhaps try 
> renaming /usr/local/etc/pkg to /usr/local/etc/pkg.old and see if pkg works 
> correctly.  (If not you can move pkg.old back.)
> 

in my usecase i do because i am also using a private repository.  my
understanding that you are correct though regarding defaults.

cheers,
-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From gjb at FreeBSD.org  Wed Jan 22 16:53:26 2014
From: gjb at FreeBSD.org (Glen Barber)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:53:26 -0500
Subject: FreeBSD-10 pkg Heads Up
In-Reply-To: <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
References: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>
 <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <20140122215326.GX35180@glenbarber.us>

On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 04:04:38PM -0500, John Baldwin wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 2:21:50 pm Pete Wright wrote:
> > Hey All,
> > This bit me this morning and figured I'd pass along the info.  I
> > upgraded my workstation to FreeBSD-10.0-RELEASE from the latest release
> > candidate.  that went fine.  then i attempted to upgrade my packages and
> > found that nothing needed to be upgraded...interesting.  i then went to
> > re-install the nvidia xorg driver to make the nvidia.ko match my new
> > kernel and it complained about xorg-server not being available.  odd.
> > after some digging it looks like i needed to create a new repo.  Here
> > was my existing repo config:
> > 
> > > cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf 
> > FreeBSD: {
> >   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/latest",
> >   mirror_type: "srv",
> >   enabled: yes
> > }
> > 
> > 
> > I created a new repository pointing to this releases packages like so:
> > > cat /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-rel10.conf 
> > FreeBSD-10-rel: {
> >   url: "pkg+http://pkg.freebsd.org/${ABI}/release/0",
> >   mirror_type: "srv",
> >   enabled: yes
> > }
> > 
> > I'm back in business now.  Not sure if this was in the release notes or
> > not (i may have missed it).  Hopefully this helps someone else out!
> 
> Do you even need a FreeBSD.conf file?

At minimum (for pkg.FreeBSD.org mirrors), you need
/etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf so pkg is aware of where the signing signatures
are, and what type of signature is used.  (Last I looked at these
specific bits, that is.)

On a side note, the xorg-server package should be available within the
next 24 hours.  The weekly build for that port failed, unfortunately. :(

> I think at one point that was in
> the early adopters instructions, but I think the current state is that
> pkg should work out of the box without needing any conf files.  Perhaps try 
> renaming /usr/local/etc/pkg to /usr/local/etc/pkg.old and see if pkg works 
> correctly.  (If not you can move pkg.old back.)
> 

My suspicion here is /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf is overriding
/usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf.  To be sure what pkg thinks its
repository is, you can look at 'pkg -vv' output, and the repositories
are listed at the bottom.

There is a bit of a sharp edge here: when using more than one repository
with the same name, (in Pete's case, I suspect that there will be two
FreeBSD repositories listed in 'pkg -vv'), it is possible to fetch
packages from *both* repositories.  So, what happens is, something like:

    # pkg install x11/kde4

will blow up horribly if both repositories are not relatively
synchronized.  (Meaning, there are no origins changed in one, but the
other has not caught up with the change.)  This is part of the reason
the release/10.0.0/ tag had to be re-created.  I ran into this exact
problem during the original 10.0-RELEASE builds, and packages on the
dvd1.iso image for kde4 would not install.

There's also a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem here regarding the
FreeBSD.conf file shipped with the release.  (Keep in mind, I did not
know xorg-server was missing in the 'latest/' directory until today.)

By shipping the release with the stock FreeBSD.conf pkg configuration,
nothing needs to be done for new installations or upgrades.  The
downside, such as the recent xorg-server build breakage, is it is
possible that immediately after the release, something changes in the
ports tree, and we end up in a situation where a specific package (and
dependent packages) are not available with the default configuration.

Conversely, if we ship with the pkg configuration that is used to build
the ISOs (src/release/pkg_repos/release-dvd.conf), while the packages
will install remotely just fine (using 'release/0/' in the URL in place of
'latest/'), now we are in a situation where manual intervention must be
taken to change to a repository URL that has updated packages, otherwise
they will never receive critical updates.

Arguably, neither is either more or less ideal than the other, as both
have their up- and down-sides.

It is something I intend to resolve (be it documentation or otherwise),
before the next release.

Glen

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From spork at bway.net  Wed Jan 22 17:27:38 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 17:27:38 -0500
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>

On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Pete Wright wrote:

> I recently replaced my Net4801 with a pc-engines ALIX board.  been very
> happy with it so far.  it has been out performing my Net4801 which isn't
> too much of a shocker due to the more performant CPU.
> 
> I purchased it from netgate.com - this is pretty much the kit i bought:
> 
> http://store.netgate.com/ALIX2D3-2D13-Kit-Black-Unassembled-P172.aspx

I keep being tempted by small units like this $100 PC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119081

Of course, other than USB, no way to get more ethernet ports.  I do
wonder if USB support in FreeBSD/pfSense is good enough to rely on
for sub-100Mb/s WAN-side connections.

This one has dual ethernet, so that would cover my LAN plus the
cable connection, and I could relegate the DSL backup to a USB
ethernet adapter.  The specs also claim a PCI-e slot, but I'm not
clear on how you'd jam a network card in there:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
http://www.oemproduction.com/products/2700L2D-MxPC.asp

Many of those cheap-o boxes have bad reviews, but it's mostly people
complaining that an old Atom can't do 1080p or run Minecraft
properly (derp).

I'm still relying on a Dell GX-110 with a P-III 600MHz.  It's OK,
but if if OOL bumps the speed much beyond what they have now, that
box is going to be a chokepoint.

Is ARM on FreeBSD progressing at a pace where we might one day be
able to load pfSense up on a routerboard?  For reasons too
complicated to explain at the moment, I have four of these on the
workbench, and the hardware is cool.  iptables though is making me
want to murder things though.

http://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-RM (5x GigE, 5x FastE, $120)

http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (13 GigE, $350)

Charles


> 
> -pete
> 
> On 01/22/14 11:20, Mark Saad wrote:
>> Hi Talk
>>  I am thinking about replacing my Net4801 and I was wondering what other options are out there ?
>> I am running pfsense on it but I am open to other setups.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mark Saad
>> mark.saad at ymail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> twitter => @nomadlogicLA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jan 22 17:51:44 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 17:51:44 -0500
Subject: FreeBSD-10 pkg Heads Up
In-Reply-To: <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
References: <20140121192146.GA1306@mail.nomadlogic.org>
 <201401221604.38231.jhb@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <20140122225143.GA21319@scott1.scottro.net>

On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 04:04:38PM -0500, John Baldwin wrote:


> 
> Do you even need a FreeBSD.conf file?  I think at one point that was in
> the early adopters instructions, but I think the current state is that
> pkg should work out of the box without needing any conf files.  Perhaps try 
> renaming /usr/local/etc/pkg to /usr/local/etc/pkg.old and see if pkg works 
> correctly.  (If not you can move pkg.old back.)
> 
As of FreeBSD-10, at least with clean installs, no, pkg is working out of
the box.

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 22 18:58:23 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:58:23 -0500
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
 <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>
Message-ID: <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>

Charles Sprickman:
> On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
> 
>> I recently replaced my Net4801 with a pc-engines ALIX board.  been very
>> happy with it so far.  it has been out performing my Net4801 which isn't
>> too much of a shocker due to the more performant CPU.
>>
>> I purchased it from netgate.com - this is pretty much the kit i bought:
>>
>> http://store.netgate.com/ALIX2D3-2D13-Kit-Black-Unassembled-P172.aspx
> 
> I keep being tempted by small units like this $100 PC:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119081
> 
> Of course, other than USB, no way to get more ethernet ports.  I do
> wonder if USB support in FreeBSD/pfSense is good enough to rely on
> for sub-100Mb/s WAN-side connections.
> 
> This one has dual ethernet, so that would cover my LAN plus the
> cable connection, and I could relegate the DSL backup to a USB
> ethernet adapter.  The specs also claim a PCI-e slot, but I'm not
> clear on how you'd jam a network card in there:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
> http://www.oemproduction.com/products/2700L2D-MxPC.asp
> 
> Many of those cheap-o boxes have bad reviews, but it's mostly people
> complaining that an old Atom can't do 1080p or run Minecraft
> properly (derp).

LOL... yeah, I know.   Hard to get through the reviews.  'one star'
since it didn't include a power adapter.  If Soekris or Alix boards were
on Amazon, they'd be full of one-star review.

> 
> I'm still relying on a Dell GX-110 with a P-III 600MHz.  It's OK,
> but if if OOL bumps the speed much beyond what they have now, that
> box is going to be a chokepoint.
> 
> Is ARM on FreeBSD progressing at a pace where we might one day be
> able to load pfSense up on a routerboard?  For reasons too
> complicated to explain at the moment, I have four of these on the
> workbench, and the hardware is cool.  iptables though is making me
> want to murder things though.
> 
> http://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-RM (5x GigE, 5x FastE, $120)
> 
> http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (13 GigE, $350)
> 

I thought routerboard is PPC.. not ARM...

(PPC.. .yeah, that architecture people have been telling OpenBSD to drop
to save power costs....)

And the ARM stuff is moving along... lots of boards mostly supported,
but there's issues on and off.  Nothing seems quite there just yet,
AFAIK.  Not sure if any have more than one NIC.

GJB (onlist) is looking at producing an official image for the RPi based
on 10-RELEASE.

I had heard pfSense was looking at ARM carefully, but it's been a while.

Next daycon on "beyond x86"?

g


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Jan 22 19:04:56 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 16:04:56 -0800
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
 <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>
 <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <52E05CA8.8030705@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/22/14 15:58, George Rosamond wrote:
> Charles Sprickman:
> And the ARM stuff is moving along... lots of boards mostly supported,
> but there's issues on and off.  Nothing seems quite there just yet,
> AFAIK.  Not sure if any have more than one NIC.
> 

so I just got my Utilite Arm Cortex-A9 with 3 x Intel GBE interfaces
this week!

http://utilite-computer.com/web/utilite-pro-specifications

now i just need to "borrow" some time from my $day_job to hack freebsd
on it ;)  thing currently runs an ubuntu image and looks great from what
i can tell.

-p

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From bcallah at devio.us  Wed Jan 22 19:17:16 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:17:16 -0500
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
 <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>
 <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <52E05F8C.1060504@devio.us>

On 1/22/2014 6:58 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
> Charles Sprickman:
>> On Jan 22, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
>>
>>> I recently replaced my Net4801 with a pc-engines ALIX board.  been very
>>> happy with it so far.  it has been out performing my Net4801 which isn't
>>> too much of a shocker due to the more performant CPU.
>>>
>>> I purchased it from netgate.com - this is pretty much the kit i bought:
>>>
>>> http://store.netgate.com/ALIX2D3-2D13-Kit-Black-Unassembled-P172.aspx
>>
>> I keep being tempted by small units like this $100 PC:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119081
>>
>> Of course, other than USB, no way to get more ethernet ports.  I do
>> wonder if USB support in FreeBSD/pfSense is good enough to rely on
>> for sub-100Mb/s WAN-side connections.
>>
>> This one has dual ethernet, so that would cover my LAN plus the
>> cable connection, and I could relegate the DSL backup to a USB
>> ethernet adapter.  The specs also claim a PCI-e slot, but I'm not
>> clear on how you'd jam a network card in there:
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856205007
>> http://www.oemproduction.com/products/2700L2D-MxPC.asp
>>
>> Many of those cheap-o boxes have bad reviews, but it's mostly people
>> complaining that an old Atom can't do 1080p or run Minecraft
>> properly (derp).
>

FYI: these have an unsupported PowerVR GPU (Intel GMA3650). Might not be 
a concern for people on this list, but something to keep in mind.

> LOL... yeah, I know.   Hard to get through the reviews.  'one star'
> since it didn't include a power adapter.  If Soekris or Alix boards were
> on Amazon, they'd be full of one-star review.
>
>>
>> I'm still relying on a Dell GX-110 with a P-III 600MHz.  It's OK,
>> but if if OOL bumps the speed much beyond what they have now, that
>> box is going to be a chokepoint.
>>
>> Is ARM on FreeBSD progressing at a pace where we might one day be
>> able to load pfSense up on a routerboard?  For reasons too
>> complicated to explain at the moment, I have four of these on the
>> workbench, and the hardware is cool.  iptables though is making me
>> want to murder things though.
>>
>> http://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-RM (5x GigE, 5x FastE, $120)
>>
>> http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (13 GigE, $350)
>>
>
> I thought routerboard is PPC.. not ARM...
>

The RB2011UiAS-RM is a MIPS machine (MIPS32 74k specifically in this 
one), as are the majority of RouterBoard machines. Some are PPC but you 
have to check.

> (PPC.. .yeah, that architecture people have been telling OpenBSD to drop
> to save power costs....)
>
> And the ARM stuff is moving along... lots of boards mostly supported,
> but there's issues on and off.  Nothing seems quite there just yet,
> AFAIK.  Not sure if any have more than one NIC.
>
> GJB (onlist) is looking at producing an official image for the RPi based
> on 10-RELEASE.
>
> I had heard pfSense was looking at ARM carefully, but it's been a while.
>
> Next daycon on "beyond x86"?
>
> g



From spork at bway.net  Wed Jan 22 19:36:08 2014
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:36:08 -0500
Subject: Net4801 Replacement
In-Reply-To: <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1390418404.80592.YahooMailBasic@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E029B1.8080809@nomadlogic.org>
 <427EDAB3-C080-480A-9F63-66A3F010D1C1@bway.net>
 <52E05B1F.5050206@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <F594B97D-DCBB-487E-9C54-BBD26FFBEA70@bway.net>

On Jan 22, 2014, at 6:58 PM, George Rosamond wrote:

> Charles Sprickman:
>> 
>> Is ARM on FreeBSD progressing at a pace where we might one day be
>> able to load pfSense up on a routerboard?  For reasons too
>> complicated to explain at the moment, I have four of these on the
>> workbench, and the hardware is cool.  iptables though is making me
>> want to murder things though.
>> 
>> http://routerboard.com/RB2011UiAS-RM (5x GigE, 5x FastE, $120)
>> 
>> http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2 (13 GigE, $350)
>> 
> 
> I thought routerboard is PPC.. not ARM?

Yeah, I have ARM on the brain I guess.

The boxes I'm playing with are "mipsbe".  One of the other large
models is PPC, and the big one is "tile", which I've not heard of
before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TILE64

The Ubiquiti "EdgeRouter", which ships with Vyatta, is MIPS as well.
I think all the Ubiquity wireless gear is MIPS.

The only reason I'm pointing out these brands is that they are both
huge in the WISP world, and these guys apparently do enough volume
to be insanely cheap.  While probably not feasible, they would be
great porting targets due to the cost and the large number of them
out in the field.  Low costs means it's easier to donate a pile to 
anyone doing the porting work too...

> (PPC.. .yeah, that architecture people have been telling OpenBSD to drop
> to save power costs?.)

Did anyone suggest Theo install CFL lighting throughout his house? :)

> And the ARM stuff is moving along... lots of boards mostly supported,
> but there's issues on and off.  Nothing seems quite there just yet,
> AFAIK.  Not sure if any have more than one NIC.
> 
> GJB (onlist) is looking at producing an official image for the RPi based
> on 10-RELEASE.
> 
> I had heard pfSense was looking at ARM carefully, but it's been a while.

Small and cheap is a big win.  Putting together an x86 box that's
tiny AND cheap is not easy.

> Next daycon on "beyond x86"?

I'd be interested in hearing about both what all the BSDs support in
that area as well as having someone really familiar with linux on
non-x86 give an overview of just what's supported there (as
something of a benchmark).

C

> 
> g
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk




From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Jan 27 09:34:27 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:34:27 -0500
Subject: NYCBSDCon tickets last chances
Message-ID: <52E66E73.7010809@ceetonetechnology.com>

Tonight we're also doing an installfest for laptops...

- Suspenders, January 27, 6:30-7:45 PM (111 Broadway, Manhattan)

- Ear Inn, January 29, 6:30-8:30 PM (www.earinn.com at 326 Spring St,
Manhattan)


From pete at nomadlogic.org  Mon Jan 27 19:47:23 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 16:47:23 -0800
Subject: OpenContrail
Message-ID: <52E6FE1B.2000807@nomadlogic.org>

anyone have experience with the OpenContrail project?

http://opencontrail.org/about/

reason i ask is due to this very exciting announcement in the most 
recent FreeBSD quarterly report:

"FreeBSD Host Support for OpenStack and OpenContrail"

I've been working on Openstack + openvswitch and have frankly found the 
documentation for openvswitch to be horrible and the code to not be 
ready for primetiem - even when going by linux specific software 
standards :)

anywho pretty excited to see some people hacking on openstack and 
freebsd/bhyve!

i reckon getting netbsd/xen up wouldn't be too much of an issue once the 
code is cleaned up a bit to support non-linux OS's.

-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Jan 27 23:15:10 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 23:15:10 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
Message-ID: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>

No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take
it upon myself to post...

First of all, we have *never* been big with installfests.  There never
really seemed to be a need, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
If those who don't need installfests don't organize them, those who need
them can't come :)

We should change that.  People might be running BSD on servers, but
putting it on a laptop, configuring wireless cards and X seem to be
completely different hurdles.  And with the advent of UEFI and netbooks
that are so Windows-centric, there is certainly a case to start having
installfests.

We had one session last week.  One laptop was a Thinkpad X120e, and I
don't remember offhand the model of the other, but I believe it was an Asus.

>From experience, even with a hacked BIOS, FreeBSD 8.x and 9.x installs
but doesn't boot the x120e.  Instead of waging that battle and jumping
into what is likely a gpt-related issue again, we went with an OpenBSD
snapshot that was recent, which not only builds quickly and cleanly, but
also hibernates and resumes nicely.

The Asus also installed OpenBSD fine.  FreeBSD 9.1/amd64 installed but
also didn't boot.  The participant with that laptop should post the
model/make so we can look at more.

Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C.  This laptop is six months or so
old, and a full UEFI nightmare.  It takes a bunch of reboots and power
downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings.  That took a good hour of
tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media, and
a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks.  If this is
the future of laptops, then the future is grim.

(yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with UEFI,
but don't forget it's an ugly road we're all being forced down. . .)

After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus
S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig.  The wired
is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were
recognized out of the message log.

It is useful to have multiple install medias on hand, plus a wired
switch.  This should include the stable and most current version of the
particular BSD in question.  And I need to figure out how to install
OpenBSD firmware blobs manually :)

We've generally thought of doing installfests on more esoteric hardware,
from the newer ARM SoC systems and beyond.  But clearly, basic x86
hardware has a relevance for installfests when it comes to a lot of
consumer-geared laptops today.

On that note, I'm hoping the participants upload their dmesgs to dmesgd,
and we can deal with any further configuration issues they may have.

And we should look at planning more installfests.  Maybe even doing a
show of hands at each meeting to decide whether to have one that month,
and to sort out what the hardware targets are.

g


From assaf at eml.cc  Mon Jan 27 23:26:38 2014
From: assaf at eml.cc (Assaf Rutenberg)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 23:26:38 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>

Sorry for not responding sooner, my freebsd installation is progressing nicely and my command line skills are getting a good workout. I will upload my dmesgs this week. By my laptop model is an Asus ux32vd. Thanks again to George for your patience and guidance. The installment was immensely helpful. 

Assaf

On January 27, 2014 11:15:10 PM EST, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take
>it upon myself to post...
>
>First of all, we have *never* been big with installfests.  There never
>really seemed to be a need, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>If those who don't need installfests don't organize them, those who
>need
>them can't come :)
>
>We should change that.  People might be running BSD on servers, but
>putting it on a laptop, configuring wireless cards and X seem to be
>completely different hurdles.  And with the advent of UEFI and netbooks
>that are so Windows-centric, there is certainly a case to start having
>installfests.
>
>We had one session last week.  One laptop was a Thinkpad X120e, and I
>don't remember offhand the model of the other, but I believe it was an
>Asus.
>
>From experience, even with a hacked BIOS, FreeBSD 8.x and 9.x installs
>but doesn't boot the x120e.  Instead of waging that battle and jumping
>into what is likely a gpt-related issue again, we went with an OpenBSD
>snapshot that was recent, which not only builds quickly and cleanly,
>but
>also hibernates and resumes nicely.
>
>The Asus also installed OpenBSD fine.  FreeBSD 9.1/amd64 installed but
>also didn't boot.  The participant with that laptop should post the
>model/make so we can look at more.
>
>Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C.  This laptop is six months or so
>old, and a full UEFI nightmare.  It takes a bunch of reboots and power
>downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings.  That took a good hour of
>tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media,
>and
>a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks.  If this is
>the future of laptops, then the future is grim.
>
>(yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with
>UEFI,
>but don't forget it's an ugly road we're all being forced down. . .)
>
>After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus
>S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig.  The
>wired
>is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were
>recognized out of the message log.
>
>It is useful to have multiple install medias on hand, plus a wired
>switch.  This should include the stable and most current version of the
>particular BSD in question.  And I need to figure out how to install
>OpenBSD firmware blobs manually :)
>
>We've generally thought of doing installfests on more esoteric
>hardware,
>from the newer ARM SoC systems and beyond.  But clearly, basic x86
>hardware has a relevance for installfests when it comes to a lot of
>consumer-geared laptops today.
>
>On that note, I'm hoping the participants upload their dmesgs to
>dmesgd,
>and we can deal with any further configuration issues they may have.
>
>And we should look at planning more installfests.  Maybe even doing a
>show of hands at each meeting to decide whether to have one that month,
>and to sort out what the hardware targets are.
>
>g
>_______________________________________________
>talk mailing list
>talk at lists.nycbug.org
>http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From mike at myownsoho.net  Wed Jan 29 00:47:07 2014
From: mike at myownsoho.net (Mike N.)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 00:47:07 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>



I did not make it to the installfest, but I did install PCBSD on my
laptop this week. 

here's a link to my dmesg:
http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2516 

If anyone is willing to help, I'm having a problem getting wireless to
work. It seems that video displays well, screensaver/suspend works too.
My wireless card is Intel Centrino-N 2230 (one 'o those wifi-bt combo
cards, has "N" capability - works in Ubuntu), recognized on pci3. Wired
ethernet works fine (whew!), recognized as re0. 

I cannot change the card, since the BIOS has a whitelist -- bastards! 

to anyone willing to help, thanks! 

mike-- 

p.s. I've already tried enabling some drivers in /boot/loader.conf -
iwi_enable or something, but with low hopes since i did not install any
drivers or make packages, assuming those were already there, but would
not be surprised if anyone told me they weren't ootb. 

On 2014-01-27 23:26, Assaf Rutenberg wrote: 

> Sorry for not responding sooner, my freebsd installation is progressing nicely and my command line skills are getting a good workout. I will upload my dmesgs this week. By my laptop model is an Asus ux32vd. Thanks again to George for your patience and guidance. The installment was immensely helpful. 
> 
> Assaf
> 
> On January 27, 2014 11:15:10 PM EST, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote: 
> 
>> No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take
>> it upon myself to post...
>> 
>> First of all, we have *never* been big with installfests. There never
>> really seemed to be a need, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>> If those who don't need installfests don't organize them, those who need
>> them can't come :)
>> 
>> We should change that. People might be running BSD on servers, but
>> putting it on a laptop, configuring wireless cards and X seem to be
>> completely different hurdles. And with the advent of UEFI and netbooks
>> that are so Windows-centric, there is certainly a case to start having
>> installfests.
>> 
>> We had one session last week. One laptop was a Thinkpad X120e, and I
>> don't remember offhand the model of the other, but I believe it was an Asus.
>> 
>> From experience, even with a hacked BIOS, FreeBSD 8.x and 9.x installs
>> but doesn't boot the x120e. Inst!
>> ead of
>> waging that battle and jumping
>> into what is likely a gpt-related issue again, we went with an OpenBSD
>> snapshot that was recent, which not only builds quickly and cleanly, but
>> also hibernates and resumes nicely.
>> 
>> The Asus also installed OpenBSD fine. FreeBSD 9.1/amd64 installed but
>> also didn't boot. The participant with that laptop should post the
>> model/make so we can look at more.
>> 
>> Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C. This laptop is six months or so
>> old, and a full UEFI nightmare. It takes a bunch of reboots and power
>> downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings. That took a good hour of
>> tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media, and
>> a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks. If this is
>> the future of laptops, then the future is grim.
>> 
>> (yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with UEFI,
>> but don't forget it's an ugly road we're a!
>> ll being
>> forced down. . .)
>> 
>> After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus
>> S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig. The wired
>> is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were
>> recognized out of the message log.
>> 
>> It is useful to have multiple install medias on hand, plus a wired
>> switch. This should include the stable and most current version of the
>> particular BSD in question. And I need to figure out how to install
>> OpenBSD firmware blobs manually :)
>> 
>> We've generally thought of doing installfests on more esoteric hardware,
>> from the newer ARM SoC systems and beyond. But clearly, basic x86
>> hardware has a relevance for installfests when it comes to a lot of
>> consumer-geared laptops today.
>> 
>> On that note, I'm hoping the participants upload their dmesgs to dmesgd,
>> and we can deal with any further configuration issues they may have.
>> 
>> And we
>> should look at planning more installfests. Maybe even doing a
>> show of hands at each meeting to decide whether to have one that month,
>> and to sort out what the hardware targets are.
>> 
>> g
>> 
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk [1]
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk [1]



Links:
------
[1] http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From sjt.kar at gmail.com  Wed Jan 29 09:44:05 2014
From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit K M)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:14:05 +0530
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
 <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>
Message-ID: <CAOPOgtDxjTXTmf++EgzD7KCjrAiJcvaQaC26QVb+Z1TVT5QLmw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Mike N. <mike at myownsoho.net> wrote:
> I did not make it to the installfest, but I did install PCBSD on my laptop
> this week.
>
> here's a link to my dmesg: http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2516

The FreeBSD manual has a section. Hope this helps.

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-wireless.html


From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jan 29 10:47:47 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 10:47:47 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <CAOPOgtDxjTXTmf++EgzD7KCjrAiJcvaQaC26QVb+Z1TVT5QLmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
 <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>
 <CAOPOgtDxjTXTmf++EgzD7KCjrAiJcvaQaC26QVb+Z1TVT5QLmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140129154747.GA4459@scott1.scottro.net>

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 08:14:05PM +0530, Sujit K M wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Mike N. <mike at myownsoho.net> wrote:
> > I did not make it to the installfest, but I did install PCBSD on my laptop
> > this week.
> >
> > here's a link to my dmesg: http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2516
> 
> The FreeBSD manual has a section. Hope this helps.

Actually, not looking that good for that card. 

https://wiki.freebsd.org/dev/iwn(4)

There does seem to be a patch on github

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-September/044513.html

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 29 11:02:26 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 11:02:26 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <20140129154747.GA4459@scott1.scottro.net>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
 <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>
 <CAOPOgtDxjTXTmf++EgzD7KCjrAiJcvaQaC26QVb+Z1TVT5QLmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140129154747.GA4459@scott1.scottro.net>
Message-ID: <52E92612.5090903@ceetonetechnology.com>

Scott Robbins:
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 08:14:05PM +0530, Sujit K M wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Mike N. <mike at myownsoho.net> wrote:
>>> I did not make it to the installfest, but I did install PCBSD on my laptop
>>> this week.
>>>
>>> here's a link to my dmesg: http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2516
>>
>> The FreeBSD manual has a section. Hope this helps.
> 
> Actually, not looking that good for that card. 
> 
> https://wiki.freebsd.org/dev/iwn(4)
> 
> There does seem to be a patch on github
> 
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-September/044513.html
> 

I am using iwn(4) successfully, but not with that chipset IIRC.  If you
haven't already, try "kldload iwn" and see what happens.. at least to
see if it's recognized.  Then "kldstat" and "ifconfig".

But at the end of the day, it's better to just pickup a wireless card
for laptops.  It's not worth the hassles and headaches of a crappy
driver.  They are dirt cheap and they are usually simple enough to
install.  And if you can't get around the BIOS' whitelist, then get a
USB one.

g


From scottro at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jan 29 13:34:57 2014
From: scottro at nyc.rr.com (Scott Robbins)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:34:57 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses
In-Reply-To: <52E92612.5090903@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <e01e6b71-69be-40b1-9250-dfa1eb39f3e8@email.android.com>
 <fd1cf9ed28e201466558f05367118f1c@myownsoho.net>
 <CAOPOgtDxjTXTmf++EgzD7KCjrAiJcvaQaC26QVb+Z1TVT5QLmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140129154747.GA4459@scott1.scottro.net>
 <52E92612.5090903@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20140129183457.GA5236@scott1.scottro.net>

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:02:26AM -0500, George Rosamond wrote:
> Scott Robbins:

> > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 08:14:05PM +0530, Sujit K M wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Mike N. <mike at myownsoho.net> wrote:
> >>> I did not make it to the installfest, but I did install PCBSD on my laptop
> >>> this week.
> >>>
> >>> here's a link to my dmesg: http://www.nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2516
> >>
> >> The FreeBSD manual has a section. Hope this helps.
> > 
> > Actually, not looking that good for that card. 
> > 
> > https://wiki.freebsd.org/dev/iwn(4)
> > 
> > There does seem to be a patch on github
> > 
> > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2013-September/044513.html
> > 
> 
> I am using iwn(4) successfully, but not with that chipset IIRC.  If you
> haven't already, try "kldload iwn" and see what happens.. at least to
> see if it's recognized.  Then "kldstat" and "ifconfig".

Yes, I'm also using iwn without issue on my laptop, but for a different
Centrino card than mentioned by the OP.  FWIW, FreeBSD-10 has added support
for some cards, the one on my Asus UX31E Ultrabook now works, using ath,
whereas it wasn't working in 9.x

As George says, it certainly won't hurt to try kldload.  

> 
> But at the end of the day, it's better to just pickup a wireless card
> for laptops.  It's not worth the hassles and headaches of a crappy
> driver.  They are dirt cheap and they are usually simple enough to
> install.  And if you can't get around the BIOS' whitelist, then get a
> USB one.

I've had to do that in the past as well.  B&H photo let me bring in my
notebook and try a USB wireless before buying.   (Whether that's their
policy, or just that I got lucky, I don't know.  I believe it was a
refurbished USB stick though, and I knew there was a question as to whether
it would work, based on the revision.)


-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6



From mwlucas at blackhelicopters.org  Wed Jan 29 17:36:34 2014
From: mwlucas at blackhelicopters.org (Michael W. Lucas)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:36:34 -0500
Subject: why BSD?
Message-ID: <20140129223634.GA97645@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org>


Hi,

I do try not to pimp myself here, but given that we're having
NYCBSDCon with a "why BSD?" theme, thought this might be of interest:

http://blather.michaelwlucas.com/archives/1942

That's my self-pimping for 2014. The first half of 2014. Well, the
next few months, at least. Oh, never mind...

==ml

-- 
Michael W. Lucas  -  mwlucas at michaelwlucas.com, Twitter @mwlauthor 
http://www.MichaelWLucas.com/, http://blather.MichaelWLucas.com/
Absolute OpenBSD 2/e - http://www.nostarch.com/openbsd2e
coupon code "ILUVMICHAEL" gets you 30% off & helps me.


From xtainted at gmail.com  Wed Jan 29 17:39:53 2014
From: xtainted at gmail.com (TJ)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:39:53 -0500
Subject: why BSD?
In-Reply-To: <20140129223634.GA97645@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org>
References: <20140129223634.GA97645@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org>
Message-ID: <BF34C402-25C9-4EE1-A0EC-1F4E0BF0F9E9@gmail.com>

On Jan 29, 2014, at 17:36, Michael W. Lucas <mwlucas at blackhelicopters.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I do try not to pimp myself here, but given that we're having
> NYCBSDCon with a "why BSD?" theme, thought this might be of interest:
> 
> http://blather.michaelwlucas.com/archives/1942
> 
> That's my self-pimping for 2014. The first half of 2014. Well, the
> next few months, at least. Oh, never mind...

Already had it in next week's show notes. I am a ninja.


From jkeen at verizon.net  Wed Jan 29 20:16:26 2014
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:16:26 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses: Asus S400C
In-Reply-To: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <52E9A7EA.7070508@verizon.net>

On 1/27/14 11:15 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
> No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take
> it upon myself to post...
>
[snip]
>
> Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C.  This laptop is six months or so
> old, and a full UEFI nightmare.  It takes a bunch of reboots and power
> downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings.  That took a good hour of
> tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media, and
> a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks.  If this is
> the future of laptops, then the future is grim.
>
> (yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with UEFI,
> but don't forget it's an ugly road we're all being forced down. . .)
>
> After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus
> S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig.  The wired
> is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were
> recognized out of the message log.
>

http://nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2518

Please let me know if that looks complete.

ifconfig output attached.

Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan
-------------- next part --------------
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 33144
	priority: 0
	groups: lo
	inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
	inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2
	inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
enc0: flags=0<>
	priority: 0
	groups: enc
	status: active
pflog0: flags=141<UP,RUNNING,PROMISC> mtu 33144
	priority: 0
	groups: pflog

From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Jan 29 23:30:59 2014
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:30:59 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses: Asus S400C
In-Reply-To: <52E9A7EA.7070508@verizon.net>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <52E9A7EA.7070508@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <52E9D583.2060705@ceetonetechnology.com>

James E Keenan:
> On 1/27/14 11:15 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
>> No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take
>> it upon myself to post...
>>
> [snip]
>>
>> Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C.  This laptop is six months or so
>> old, and a full UEFI nightmare.  It takes a bunch of reboots and power
>> downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings.  That took a good hour of
>> tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media, and
>> a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks.  If this is
>> the future of laptops, then the future is grim.
>>
>> (yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with UEFI,
>> but don't forget it's an ugly road we're all being forced down. . .)
>>
>> After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus
>> S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig.  The wired
>> is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were
>> recognized out of the message log.
>>
> 
> http://nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2518

Nice.  Thanks Jim.  That was a long spamd delay on this mail...

> 
> Please let me know if that looks complete.
> 
> ifconfig output attached.
> 

First thing is in reference to the last line of "WARNING: / was not
properly unmounted", to shutdown OpenBSD, it's:

# shutdown -ph now

Now the dmesg and ifconfig's output should both show the network
interfaces, but neither do.  I remember from your /var/log/messages
getting the chipsets that I listed earlier in this thread.

As discussed online, you can do a couple of things while waiting for
support for the wired and wireless on that laptop:

1.  get USB adapters for wired or wireless as per Brian's comments

2.  get a replacement and supported wireless card, and check the
hardware manual on how to replace it.  It's usually just popping open
the backpanel or the keyboard.  Not a huge deal.  And it's probably
mini-PCI express, but you should check in the hardware manual.

Once you have connectivity, it should be smooth sailing for setting up
an X manager, adding packages, etc.

g


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Wed Jan 29 23:20:40 2014
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:20:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What is a hackathon
Message-ID: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

All
 I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project to do stuff.
There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a hackathon or
something else ?


His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a collaborative effort, with a common goal 
designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced. 


So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else. 

--
Mark Saad
mark.saad at ymail.com


From edlinuxguru at gmail.com  Wed Jan 29 23:41:29 2014
From: edlinuxguru at gmail.com (Edward Capriolo)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:41:29 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAENxBwySLEdv13BotYF1QxSYRJ1A7huyse_n3WKyQxn6u2GD1g@mail.gmail.com>

I have hackathon's at my house. What happens is half the people tell you
they have really important stuff to do at work, even thought its friday,
and. Then the other half of the people bring there laptop, complain about
work and plax xbox.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> All
>  I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad
> opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where
> groups would be
> formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project
> to do stuff.
> There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a
> hackathon or
> something else ?
>
>
> His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a
> hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
> The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a
> collaborative effort, with a common goal
> designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced.
>
>
> So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else.
>
> --
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From bob at redivi.com  Wed Jan 29 23:44:48 2014
From: bob at redivi.com (Bob Ippolito)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 20:44:48 -0800
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACwMPm_rKbPP0hL8CpK6zpdf0AuTo_L=PDX+iwASrdMiraN_zw@mail.gmail.com>

I would call this event a hackathon based on experience (and I have been in
SF for nearly a decade, the epicenter for this kind of thing), Wikipedia
seems to agree: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackathon

I would use the word "sprint" to match your friend's definition of
hackathon.

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014, Mark Saad
<mark.saad at ymail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.saad at ymail.com');>>
wrote:

> All
>  I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad
> opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where
> groups would be
> formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project
> to do stuff.
> There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a
> hackathon or
> something else ?
>
>
> His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a
> hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
> The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a
> collaborative effort, with a common goal
> designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced.
>
>
> So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else.
>
> --
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From bcallah at devio.us  Wed Jan 29 23:45:13 2014
From: bcallah at devio.us (Brian Callahan)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:45:13 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52E9D8D9.6000302@devio.us>

On 1/29/2014 11:20 PM, Mark Saad wrote:
> All
>   I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
> formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project to do stuff.
> There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a hackathon or
> something else ?
>

Slightly off-topic history lesson: OpenBSD held the first ever hackathon 
and invented the term.
http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html

>
> His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
> The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a collaborative effort, with a common goal
> designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced.
>
>
> So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else.
>
> --
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com



From siraaj at khandkar.net  Thu Jan 30 00:15:50 2014
From: siraaj at khandkar.net (Siraaj Khandkar)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 00:15:50 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <52E9E006.2000005@khandkar.net>

On 1/29/14 11:20 PM, Mark Saad wrote:
> All
>  I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
> formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project to do stuff.
> There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a hackathon or
> something else ?
> 
> 
> His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
> The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a collaborative effort, with a common goal 
> designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced. 
> 
> 
> So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else. 
>

Ideally, I think that

Hackathon:
    Hacking for solid, uninterrupted chunks of time in a shared space.
    Maybe loose, but nonetheless common, general motivation.

Programming contest:
    Teams building competing solutions to a given problem during a
    limited time. There are winners, losers and prizes.

In practice, people just don't care and call any coding event a
"hackathon". So your "friend" is correct and his company is consistent :)


From mike at myownsoho.net  Thu Jan 30 00:27:09 2014
From: mike at myownsoho.net (Mike N.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 00:27:09 -0500
Subject: installfest statuses: Asus S400C
In-Reply-To: <52E9D583.2060705@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <52E72ECE.7040201@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <52E9A7EA.7070508@verizon.net> <52E9D583.2060705@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <f2854ef92016975cbcb2d79cce4b30e6@myownsoho.net>



On 2014-01-29 23:30, George Rosamond wrote: 

> James E Keenan:
> On 1/27/14 11:15 PM, George Rosamond wrote: No one from the installfests posted anything yet, so I thought I'd take it upon myself to post... [snip] Tonight we dealt with an Asus S400C. This laptop is six months or so old, and a full UEFI nightmare. It takes a bunch of reboots and power downs to deal with UEFI and BIOS settings. That took a good hour of tinkering to get things to recognize the USB with the install media, and a few more reboots to get it to boot back from the disks. If this is the future of laptops, then the future is grim. (yes, I'm aware of the FreeBSD Foundation's grant for dealing with UEFI, but don't forget it's an ugly road we're all being forced down. . .) After finally getting a recent OpenBSD snapshot to boot on the Asus S400C, *no* physical network devices were listed in ifconfig. The wired is an Attansic AR8161, and the wireless is Atheros AR9485, and were recognized out of the message log. http://nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&dmesgid=2518 [1]

Nice. Thanks Jim. That was a long spamd delay on this mail...

> Please let me know if that looks complete. ifconfig output attached.

First thing is in reference to the last line of "WARNING: / was not
properly unmounted", to shutdown OpenBSD, it's:

# shutdown -ph now

Now the dmesg and ifconfig's output should both show the network
interfaces, but neither do. I remember from your /var/log/messages
getting the chipsets that I listed earlier in this thread.

As discussed online, you can do a couple of things while waiting for
support for the wired and wireless on that laptop:

1. get USB adapters for wired or wireless as per Brian's comments

2. get a replacement and supported wireless card, and check the
hardware manual on how to replace it. It's usually just popping open
the backpanel or the keyboard. Not a huge deal. And it's probably
mini-PCI express, but you should check in the hardware manual.

Once you have connectivity, it should be smooth sailing for setting up
an X manager, adding packages, etc.

g
_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nycbug.org
http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk [2]

of course, downloading on another machine and copying to USB drive and
installing from there is always an option... 

If your USB controller is supported, that is. 

I have a few brcm / ath minipci cards i'm willing to part with if you
need / want one -- lmk if you want me to bring to the con! 

mike-- 



Links:
------
[1] http://nycbug.org/?action=dmesgd&amp;dmesgid=2518
[2] http://www.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From mikel.king at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 06:53:12 2014
From: mikel.king at gmail.com (mikel king)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 06:53:12 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E14422B7-56A1-4120-B9C8-A82A5786E02C@gmail.com>



> On Jan 29, 2014, at 23:20, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
> 
> All
> I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
> formed and each group would be given 16 hrs to design and build a project to do stuff.
> There would be winners and looser and prizes given out.  Is this a hackathon or
> something else ?
> 
> 
> His initial reaction when he was told about this was; "This isn't a hackathon, I am not sure what this is ?"
> The organizer said "what do you think a hackathon is?"  He said ... its a collaborative effort, with a common goal 
> designed quickly help a project as needed; usually short and rapidly paced. 
> 
> 
> So anyway what do you all think, is this a hackathon or something else. 
> 
> --
> Mark Saad
> mark.saad at ymail.com
> 

Hey Mark,

Yep that pretty much sums it up. At Etsy I remember them having random hack days and an official hack week for this sort of thing.

Cheers, 
M


From sjt.kar at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 07:16:19 2014
From: sjt.kar at gmail.com (Sujit K M)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 17:46:19 +0530
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
> All
>  I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
> My "friends" job announced then would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be

I find that suse as a company does do this in their calendar. These
are very intense sessions/hotly
debated and questioned by participants, i guess audience. This is
supposed to be done to increase
productivity of their staff.

-- 
-- Sujit K M

blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/)


From mark.saad at ymail.com  Thu Jan 30 08:30:13 2014
From: mark.saad at ymail.com (Mark Saad)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 08:30:13 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>



> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:16 AM, Sujit K M <sjt.kar at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>> All
>> I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
>> My "friends" job announced they would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
> 
> I find that suse as a company does do this in their calendar. These
> are very intense sessions/hotly
> debated and questioned by participants, i guess audience. This is
> supposed to be done to increase
> productivity of their staff.
> 
> -- 
> -- Sujit K M
> 
> blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/)


I see. It like this , some of us haven't been working at hip enough companies to understand the new definition .  But then again why would a "new" company be against the traditional style of hackathon ? I say this as after this conversation started , off list, "[that] a traditional hackathon would be too boring for most new companies. You would have a hard time selling , let's have a hackathon to fix the spread sheets we use !"  But as far as I am concerned that's the sort of hackathon a new company , or in some cases any company, should have . 

---
Mark 





From mikel.king at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 08:57:58 2014
From: mikel.king at gmail.com (Mikel King)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 08:57:58 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <700757AA-B67F-419E-9ADC-893C01D6282D@gmail.com>


On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:16 AM, Sujit K M <sjt.kar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>>> All
>>> I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
>>> My "friends" job announced they would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
>> 
>> I find that suse as a company does do this in their calendar. These
>> are very intense sessions/hotly
>> debated and questioned by participants, i guess audience. This is
>> supposed to be done to increase
>> productivity of their staff.
>> 
>> -- 
>> -- Sujit K M
>> 
>> blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/)
> 
> 
> I see. It like this , some of us haven't been working at hip enough companies to understand the new definition .  But then again why would a "new" company be against the traditional style of hackathon ? I say this as after this conversation started , off list, "[that] a traditional hackathon would be too boring for most new companies. You would have a hard time selling , let's have a hackathon to fix the spread sheets we use !"  But as far as I am concerned that's the sort of hackathon a new company , or in some cases any company, should have . 
> 
> ---
> Mark 


Or like all things the definition has evolved. 

I found the Etsy hack weeks to be great because you get to team up with resources form other parts of the company to build something new and usually incredibly useful. It's a fantastic way to build peer relationship across departmental lines.

Cheers,
m






From pete at nomadlogic.org  Thu Jan 30 12:48:04 2014
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>
Message-ID: <52EA9054.5080201@nomadlogic.org>



On 01/30/14 05:30, Mark Saad wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:16 AM, Sujit K M <sjt.kar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>>> All
>>> I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
>>> My "friends" job announced they would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
>>
>> I find that suse as a company does do this in their calendar. These
>> are very intense sessions/hotly
>> debated and questioned by participants, i guess audience. This is
>> supposed to be done to increase
>> productivity of their staff.
>>
>> -- 
>> -- Sujit K M
>>
>> blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/)
> 
> 
> I see. It like this , some of us haven't been working at hip enough companies to understand the new definition .  But then again why would a "new" company be against the traditional style of hackathon ? I say this as after this conversation started , off list, "[that] a traditional hackathon would be too boring for most new companies. You would have a hard time selling , let's have a hackathon to fix the spread sheets we use !"  But as far as I am concerned that's the sort of hackathon a new company , or in some cases any company, should have . 
> 

in my personal experience hackathon's at startups is that they are used
for two purposes usually:

1) recruiting tool to try to convince young guns that despite the fact
they have been working on refactoring a single class to parse JSON for
three weeks they'll be able to actually do something interesting during
the yearly hackathon.

2) a tool for product people to come up with new stuff to sell when they
have run out of ideas.

I've never seen it used in the sense that OpenBSD or other OSS projects
originally intended - i.e. a day or week to sit down and crank out lots
of work in person with your fellow collaborators (due to the
geographically distributed nature of these projects).


personally speaking i'm more in favor of the now defunct google %20 rule
- where people are able to put %20 of their $JOB time to use on projects
that are not directly related to their primary domain.  seems that
people do this anyway so may as well encourage it...


-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
twitter => @nomadlogicLA



From jkeen at verizon.net  Thu Jan 30 21:14:50 2014
From: jkeen at verizon.net (James E Keenan)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:14:50 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <52EA9054.5080201@nomadlogic.org>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <CAOPOgtDK7mG0RfykdMP0WH+fpGA4gLMUyij42Eu_GdcpBZpKDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65DC6404-D1B4-41C1-BE8A-F0F8843C5E8E@ymail.com>
 <52EA9054.5080201@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <52EB071A.5020500@verizon.net>

On 1/30/14 12:48 PM, Pete Wright wrote:
>
>
> On 01/30/14 05:30, Mark Saad wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:16 AM, Sujit K M<sjt.kar at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Mark Saad<mark.saad at ymail.com>  wrote:
>>>> All
>>>> I know this may sound like a silly question but I wanted to get a broad opinion on this.
>>>> My "friends" job announced they would be having a company hackathon, where groups would be
>>>
>>> I find that suse as a company does do this in their calendar. These
>>> are very intense sessions/hotly
>>> debated and questioned by participants, i guess audience. This is
>>> supposed to be done to increase
>>> productivity of their staff.
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- Sujit K M
>>>
>>> blog(http://kmsujit.blogspot.com/)
>>
>>
>> I see. It like this , some of us haven't been working at hip enough companies to understand the new definition .  But then again why would a "new" company be against the traditional style of hackathon ? I say this as after this conversation started , off list, "[that] a traditional hackathon would be too boring for most new companies. You would have a hard time selling , let's have a hackathon to fix the spread sheets we use !"  But as far as I am concerned that's the sort of hackathon a new company , or in some cases any company, should have .
>>
>

"What is a hackathon?" elicited deep and profound discussion at a New 
York Perlmongers social meeting earlier tonight.

Everyone in the bar ... errrrm, everyone at the table agreed there were 
three varieties current:

> in my personal experience hackathon's at startups is that they are used
> for two purposes usually:
>
> 1) recruiting tool to try to convince young guns that despite the fact
> they have been working on refactoring a single class to parse JSON for
> three weeks they'll be able to actually do something interesting during
> the yearly hackathon.
>
> 2) a tool for product people to come up with new stuff to sell when they
> have run out of ideas.
>

1. Perhaps the most recent variant to emerge:  the "within-the-company, 
(hopefully) cross-team" hackathon.  Had one at $job two weeks ago; know 
of several NYC other companies that have done this in last two years.

2. A more outward-facing type of hackathon is where a government agency 
(e.g., the MTA) or occasionally a company opens up their data and 
encourages competition among non-staff people to develop apps based on 
that data.

> I've never seen it used in the sense that OpenBSD or other OSS projects
> originally intended - i.e. a day or week to sit down and crank out lots
> of work in person with your fellow collaborators (due to the
> geographically distributed nature of these projects).
>

3. This is the type I'm most familiar with:  the hackathon aimed at 
furthering the work of an open-source project and building a community 
around that project.  Quite common in the Perl world.  If you are 
interested in my thoughts on this, see:

"How to get the most out of a hackathon"
http://thenceforward.net/perl/yapc/YAPC-NA-2007/houslight/

"Let's have a distributed hackathon"
http://blogs.perl.org/users/kid51/2012/10/lets-have-a-distributed-perl-hackathon.html

Thank you very much.
Jim Keenan


From raulcuza at gmail.com  Fri Jan 31 23:29:34 2014
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ra=C3=BAl_Cuza?=)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:29:34 -0500
Subject: What is a hackathon
In-Reply-To: <52E9D8D9.6000302@devio.us>
References: <1391055640.6400.YahooMailBasic@web140102.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
 <52E9D8D9.6000302@devio.us>
Message-ID: <9B550292-1176-4914-99A6-1BD76AAD2CC8@gmail.com>

On Jan 29, 2014, at 23:45, Brian Callahan <bcallah at devio.us> wrote:
> 
> 
> Slightly off-topic history lesson: OpenBSD held the first ever hackathon and invented the term.
> http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html
> 

I totally read that in Pavel Chekov's voice. 

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