[talk] ssh.com blog post

Tue May 6 23:30:31 EDT 2014

On Tuesday, May 6, 2014, Mark Saad <mark.saad at ymail.com> wrote:
>
> Ed
>   I I have learned one thing , this new java tech is soo cool .  Look
they even made a ssh server in it .
>
> http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/
>
> Ohh and I hear "our" new web server scales to 4 concurrent users .  I am
not sure what 1999 will bring us maybe Microsoft will make a windows 99 .
> ---
>
>
>
>> On May 6, 2014, at 9:48 PM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Edward Capriolo:
>>> What a terrible example. Jordan was like an 80 /85 % free throw shooter.
>>> Since he shot 10 a game he missed them all the time.
>>
>> Wow... ed posted and didn't mention Java.
>>
>> I find that the people who know nothing about sports most often use
>> Jordan in metaphors.  And we all expect programmers to make mistakes...
>> may be he knows less about development than basketball.
>>
>> And I love the infect OpenSSH/OpenBSD by naming next to OpenSSL.
>>
>> g
>>
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Mark,

No one knows what your talking about. I can only hazard a guess that your
somehow trying to troll me over java, how your company is switching to it,
and how you don't like it.

Well guess fin what, you fed me, I am in. I now have a 8 year track record
of designing scalable systems in Java.

When I'm not writing blog posts about distributed massive scale NoSQL
databases written that get picked up my highscalability.com (
http://highscalability.com/blog/2012/5/30/strategy-get-servers-for-free-and-make-users-happy-by-turnin.html),
or making side money training on massive scalable map reduce architectures (
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hands-on-apache-hive-workshop-with-ed-capriolo-austin-tickets-7334274011),
or speaking all over the country at tech conferences (
http://chariotsolutions.com/dataio2013/#edward_capriolo) where people pay
for my flight and hotel, I do really enjoy coming on this list and debating
with you over how Java can not possibly perform well or be scalable.

What do you even care anyway? You are in ops, someone hands you some code
and you package it and install it. Does it make a differences if it is
java/erlang/c/perl/ whatever? In ever much liked php, as an ops person I
knew I had 0 input into what language developers chose to do something in.

If you are mad/upset/angry/sad/depressed/suidicidal that YOUR company is
using java.....Get a new fricken job! I am sure you can find a place that
is running master-slave mysql, and a big isilon nfs server, on freebsd and
be happy again. Flip the scipt. Become a CTO then you can make the
decisions and make all the people under you miserable over your choices.

Why are you hating on Mina? This entire thread was about open
ssh.commaking an unfair pot shot over one flaw in ssl, and how this is
so
unconscionable. Then you go and randomly take a pot shot at
http://mina.apache.org/sshd-project/. Why target mina? Have you tried it?
Do you know that it has poor performance.

Read this:
https://days2011.scala-lang.org/sites/days2011/files/ws3-1-Hundt.pdf

We implemented a well specified compact algorithm in four
languages, C++, Java, Go, and Scala, and evaluated the results
along several dimensions, finding factors of differences in
all areas. We discussed many subsequent language specific
optimizations that point to typical performance pain points in
the respective languages.
*We find that in regards to performance, C++ wins out by*
*a large margin. However, it also required the most extensive*
*tuning efforts, many of which were done at a level of sophisti-*
*cation that would not be available to the average programmer.*
Scala concise notation and powerful language features al-
lowed for the best optimization of code complexity.
*The Java version was probably the simplest to implement,*
but the hardest to analyze for performance. Specifically the
effects around garbage collection were complicated and very
hard to tune. Since Scala runs on the JVM, it has the same
issues.
Go offers interesting language features, which also allow
for a concise and standardized notation. The compilers for this
language are still immature, which reflects in both performance
and binary sizes.

In other words, if your are claimg your programmers are not sophisticated
enough to write a Java that performs well they have little chance of
writing c++ that performs well according to google.

Any believe it or not there are many, many times when java
performance.....get ready for your mind to explode .... beats c++!

http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2008/07/performance-comparison-c-java-python-ruby-jython-jruby-groovy/

http://scribblethink.org/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html

The authors test some real numerical codes (FFT, Matrix factorization, SOR,
fluid solver, N-body) on several architectures and compilers. On Intel they
found that the Java performance was very reasonable compared to C (e.g, 20%
slower), and that Java was faster than at least one C compiler (KAI
compiler on Linux).

The authors conclude, "On Intel Pentium hardware, especially with Linux, *the
performance gap is small enough to be of little or no concern* to
programmers."

But please keep going on about all your anecdotal facts about how slow you
think Java is even in the face of the overwhelming evidence that says you
are wrong.
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