[talk] FreeBSD Governance, Foundation/Project

Edward Capriolo edlinuxguru at gmail.com
Wed Jun 12 23:47:40 EDT 2019

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 6:16 PM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 1:45 PM Isaac (.ike) Levy <
> ike at blackskyresearch.net> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I've just finished listening to a very long video, still digesting it all:
>> "AsiaBSDCon 2019 DevSummit: We don't see a problem. Suggestion of Project
>> Governance additions."
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4MetxUV4N0
>> These are the slides from the presentation,
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nu9WVp3-QgkDCQCT8eTAlyYLulADyflzCzmZ3-iX-V0/edit#slide=id.g54d9b68929_21_5
>> Attendees in the audience can be identified here:
>> https://wiki.freebsd.org/DevSummit/201903#Short_Talks
>> --
>> Summary: Michael Dexter is presenting on a number of issues and
>> challenges he sees facing the FreeBSD Project, which directly relate to
>> influence from the FreeBSD Foundation.  It's a tough but constructive
>> conversation, whereby MD is raising a number of important issues which I
>> believe are near and dear to many of us around NYC*BUG.
>> For almost every point, MD touches on something which has affected my
>> life around the FreeBSD project, (personally and professionally).  MD tries
>> hard not to posit all the solutions, but instead sparks a really long and
>> valuable discussion among FreeBSD devs, core, and Foundation folks.  The
>> talk isn't directly about code per-se, (but in the end, the issues are
>> deeply technical.)
>> With the stiff opposition in the room, and the patience, directness, and
>> openness MD exhibits in his presentation, I feel he deserves a commendation
>> from the community for raising these issues- and that this presentation
>> should perhaps be required viewing for any new Core/Foundation FreeBSD
>> folks.  Criticism and introspection is always difficult for projects we all
>> care so deeply about, but critical to growth and survival.
>> --
>> For those who have watched this, (or plan to, or were in the rooom), I'd
>> love to openly hear people's thoughts on topics raised?
>> In the years since the FreeBSD Foundation emerged, what have been it's
>> biggest success and failures for the FreEBSD project?  (Aside from the
>> obvious success of paying Glen Barber to stabilize RELENG :)
>> Do other people see value in MD's points, and even better yet, do people
>> have constructive ideas toward remediation for any of these issues?  Any
>> constructive/actionable asks of the Project or the Foundation?
> It's hard to know what MD's points were as they were shrouded in so much
> passive-agressive toxicity, half-truths and outright lies.
> This was a horrible presentation that was painful to sit through because
> he belabored so many points, committed so many logical fallacies (FreeBSD
> core and FreeBSD foundation are two entirely different things, despite
> having the word FreeBSD in them, for example). In addition, a number of his
> points were just wrong (yes, you can impeach core, for example). It was
> poorly researched, poorly organized and poorly presented. I had dozens of
> private messages from other people in the room commenting on just how
> painful it was to sit through in person.
> But then again, I'm the guy doing the table flipping on the phone because
> he was telling bald-faced lies about  me and when I tried to correct the
> context, he persisted in those lies.
> Warner
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Just a note: The presentation references this code here:


Random observation.

"here's no way that nstr won't be terminated in the first 80 characters
because the snprintf 3 lines above guarantees it. so strnlen() is kinda
useless here."

Why not write a unit test? I think this has a way of engaging people more,
instead of saying "it is cosmetic" or "dont worry i got this". It says, "I
have considered these scenarios. Please  provide some other ones if you
want to discuss a different imp."
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