From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep  2 12:28:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 16:28:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] Wednesday meeting: Setting up a convenient working
 environment
Message-ID: <c8c69402-ef72-27ee-45ae-b62a1ad10bc6@ceetonetechnology.com>

Setting up a convenient working environment, Ivan Ivanov
2019-09-04 @ 18:45 - Suspenders, 108 Greenwich Street; typically on the
second floor, otherwise on the first

The talk will present some of the author's attempts to setup a
convenient working environment.

We often discuss automation topics, but no matter how perfect out
automation procedures, failures and errors do happen. Then we need to
actually log into a box and interactively and manually debug it. The
talk will discuss some of the author's attempts to set up a convenient
working environment under Unix.

Ivan Ivanov is a Bulgarian software developer currently working for a
financial company in New York City.



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Sep  3 10:39:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:39:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] HAMBSD
Message-ID: <ff342fbd-ad72-83aa-17db-71f6195de94f@ceetonetechnology.com>

Thought this might be of interest to some..

https://hambsd.org/



From jpb at jimby.name  Tue Sep  3 13:43:01 2019
From: jpb at jimby.name (jpb)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 13:43:01 -0400
Subject: [talk] HAMBSD
In-Reply-To: <ff342fbd-ad72-83aa-17db-71f6195de94f@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <ff342fbd-ad72-83aa-17db-71f6195de94f@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20190903134301.7a4ba9f2.jpb@jimby.name>

On Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:39:00 +0000
George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:

> Thought this might be of interest to some..
> 
> https://hambsd.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk

Didn't Phil Karn do a lot of work on TCP/IP over radio back in the
early 90's?  ISTR his callsign was KA9Q, but I could be wrong. Yeah-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Karn  - that's the guy.
Karn's Network Operating System was being used over amateur radio
back then.

IIRC, he used the packet driver framework from Russ Nelson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Nelson

Man, I remember getting packet drivers to work on DOS PC's,
and being *so excited* I could transfer files between PCs!!

Those were the days dude!

jpb
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From pvarga at pvrg.net  Wed Sep  4 02:16:26 2019
From: pvarga at pvrg.net (Peter Varga)
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:16:26 -0700
Subject: [talk] HAMBSD
In-Reply-To: <20190903134301.7a4ba9f2.jpb@jimby.name>
References: <ff342fbd-ad72-83aa-17db-71f6195de94f@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190903134301.7a4ba9f2.jpb@jimby.name>
Message-ID: <232f7179-f910-4836-8e95-f8f3861eda3f@www.fastmail.com>

Nice. That reminds me of downloading stuff over shortwave or am radio and feed it to C64 on a tape. Mostly it worked. Let?s all get radio with solid base now. :-). 

On Tue, Sep 3, 2019, at 10:43, jpb wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Sep 2019 14:39:00 +0000
> George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> > Thought this might be of interest to some..
> > 
> > https://hambsd.org/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at lists.nycbug.org
> > http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> Didn't Phil Karn do a lot of work on TCP/IP over radio back in the
> early 90's? ISTR his callsign was KA9Q, but I could be wrong. Yeah-
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Karn - that's the guy.
> Karn's Network Operating System was being used over amateur radio
> back then.
> 
> IIRC, he used the packet driver framework from Russ Nelson
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Nelson
> 
> Man, I remember getting packet drivers to work on DOS PC's,
> and being *so excited* I could transfer files between PCs!!
> 
> Those were the days dude!
> 
> jpb
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> 
> *Attachments:*
>  * smime.p7s
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From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Wed Sep  4 23:31:30 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 23:31:30 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS or DNSSEC NYC*Bug talk
Message-ID: <E95E1EB2-C620-4783-9450-2E236074855C@gmail.com>

During tonight?s talk it became clear that we would all really benefit from a DNS and DNSSEC talk. Is there any brave soul on this list who would like to step into that gap?



From jschauma at netmeister.org  Thu Sep  5 10:37:56 2019
From: jschauma at netmeister.org (Jan Schaumann)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 10:37:56 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS or DNSSEC NYC*Bug talk
In-Reply-To: <E95E1EB2-C620-4783-9450-2E236074855C@gmail.com>
References: <E95E1EB2-C620-4783-9450-2E236074855C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20190905143756.GR6512@netmeister.org>

Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
> During tonight?s talk it became clear that we would
> all really benefit from a DNS and DNSSEC talk. Is
> there any brave soul on this list who would like to
> step into that gap?

I don't have the bandwidth to do a talk, but depending
on what you're looking for, you may find this blog
post I did a few weeks ago useful:
https://www.netmeister.org/blog/dnssec-dane.html

-Jan



From spork at bway.net  Mon Sep  9 20:27:02 2019
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 20:27:02 -0400
Subject: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
Message-ID: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>

Hi all,

The closest I?ve come to desktop *nix that?s not OS-X for the last decade is occasionally peeking at a random Linux distro in vmware fusion?

I?ve got enough spare junk around to put together a Core2Duo desktop (8GB RAM, Nvidia 7500-series video) with a decent monitor in my workshop area. I have so little desire to learn Linux systemd stuff at this point, so I thought I?d check in to see what happened to PC-BSD (it?s dead, it seems).

My very brief Googling suggests that ?Project Trident? and ?GhostBSD? are the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.

Any feelings on either? I want simple, all binary packages (do NOT want to build Chrome or the latest CLANG on a Core2Duo), and that?s about it. Both seem to offer non-KDE, non-Gnome desktops so they both win there. I think easy and up to date package management that does not require futzing with dependencies too much is way up there too.

I?ll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in vmware, which open source option for virtualization of windows is preferred these days? I?ll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there because I?ll at some point need some weird piece of windows-only hobbyist software?

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks,

Charles


From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep  9 21:30:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 01:30:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
In-Reply-To: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
References: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
Message-ID: <8e25aae0-1e09-05c2-fdf6-32d1e6da8675@ceetonetechnology.com>



Charles Sprickman:
> Hi all,
> 
> The closest I?ve come to desktop *nix that?s not OS-X for the last decade is occasionally peeking at a random Linux distro in vmware fusion?
> 
> I?ve got enough spare junk around to put together a Core2Duo desktop (8GB RAM, Nvidia 7500-series video) with a decent monitor in my workshop area. I have so little desire to learn Linux systemd stuff at this point, so I thought I?d check in to see what happened to PC-BSD (it?s dead, it seems).
> 
> My very brief Googling suggests that ?Project Trident? and ?GhostBSD? are the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.
> 
> Any feelings on either? I want simple, all binary packages (do NOT want to build Chrome or the latest CLANG on a Core2Duo), and that?s about it. Both seem to offer non-KDE, non-Gnome desktops so they both win there. I think easy and up to date package management that does not require futzing with dependencies too much is way up there too.
> 
> I?ll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in vmware, which open source option for virtualization of windows is preferred these days? I?ll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there because I?ll at some point need some weird piece of windows-only hobbyist software?
> 
> Any advice appreciated!

Hey Spork...

I don't follow the *BSD desktop stuff and didn't give the time to PC-BSD
that it probably deserved, but I feel like the old era of bad binary
packages in far in the past overall.

PC-BSD is now TrueOS https://www.trueos.org/...

With OpenBSD it's all so simple, and I think it's the same with FreeBSD
at least. The old days of needing to use ports on FreeBSD to get what
you want seem to be far over.

Binary packages have always been the preferred method for OpenBSD users,
and they always just seem to work.  And as of recently, there are now
binary packages for OpenBSD -stable for at least amd64 and i386:

https://ftp4.usa.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.5/packages/

Tools like sysupgrade and syspatch also eliminate another need for
keeping the source local and using patch(1).

And not using some repackaged BSD distro means sticking with strong
project support.

I know it's not necessarily "parent-friendly", but dealing with dangling
files is simple enough.

You can dump your core packages with "pkg_info -m", delete all the
packages, then just readd the package from the output of `-m`.

I really can't imagine things being any easier than today with binary
packages.

The one thing I do wish for which is a wip in my ports tree is a
stripped down xfce. Custom packages are nice, but aren't really in the
vein of what you're talking about either. And the default package
configs address what I think you're seeking...

When it comes to vmware, etc, I have no thoughts or comments!

Not sure if this even approaches your query, but thought I'd give you my
$0.02.

g



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep  9 22:14:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 02:14:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] dmesgd on wikipedia
Message-ID: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>

Sorry to gloat, but I just caught this on the TrueOS page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS#Hardware_requirements

g



From raulcuza at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 23:00:51 2019
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 23:00:51 -0400
Subject: [talk] dmesgd on wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2xmyExf9EX428WSKk_QsTsXLwcEDimcXVUiquFhXeD78A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 10:14 PM George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry to gloat, but I just caught this on the TrueOS page:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS#Hardware_requirements
>
> g
>

That isn't the only place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#cite_ref-NYCBUG-dmseg_84-0

Of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NYC*BUG 404's.

Ra?l



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Mon Sep  9 23:45:29 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 23:45:29 -0400
Subject: [talk] Room share needed for EuroBSDCon sept 18-23
Message-ID: <97C7E4C2-2FB5-4DF1-9961-E2E18F224EB2@gmail.com>

Hello All,
If anyone needs a roommate for EuroBSDCon at the event hotel, please let me know. I have roomed with Brian Callahan in the past if you need a roommate reference. Speaking of Dr. C, his porting workshop went over so well this past weekend, it was referenced in a talk the following day. VBSDCON was a blast. The Dr. Vixie talk was fantastic, my only regret is I did not get to ask him to either visit or give a talk for NYC*BUG should he ever find himself in the area. 
Be well,
P

Patrick 



From nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com  Mon Sep  9 23:31:28 2019
From: nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com (Brian Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 23:31:28 -0400
Subject: [talk] dmesgd on wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20190910033127.GA8622@panix.com>

George Rosamond wrote:
> 
> Sorry to gloat, but I just caught this on the TrueOS page:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS#Hardware_requirements

For further gloating, NYC*BUG is also mentioned at the end of the
"Documentation and support" section of the main FreeBSD page.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Documentation_and_support>

-- 
Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
"Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  My people
travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway



From kmsujit at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 01:11:09 2019
From: kmsujit at gmail.com (Sujit K M)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:41:09 +0530
Subject: [talk] Fwd:  Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
In-Reply-To: <CA+6mNeoUpCrAP2Jo99d0N2WXU1Py7V32NCFxJFNVaJxn9tNP9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
 <CA+6mNeoUpCrAP2Jo99d0N2WXU1Py7V32NCFxJFNVaJxn9tNP9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6mNeqKLdgypNL8m__xqjCtazA3ENQc-QUjup+C17pdRAEFtA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Sujit K M <kmsujit at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
To: Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net>




On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 5:57 AM Charles Sprickman <spork at bway.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The closest I?ve come to desktop *nix that?s not OS-X for the last decade
> is occasionally peeking at a random Linux distro in vmware fusion?
>
> I?ve got enough spare junk around to put together a Core2Duo desktop (8GB
> RAM, Nvidia 7500-series video) with a decent monitor in my workshop area. I
> have so little desire to learn Linux systemd stuff at this point, so I
> thought I?d check in to see what happened to PC-BSD (it?s dead, it seems).
>
> My very brief Googling suggests that ?Project Trident? and ?GhostBSD? are
> the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.
>
> Any feelings on either? I want simple, all binary packages (do NOT want to
> build Chrome or the latest CLANG on a Core2Duo), and that?s about it. Both
> seem to offer non-KDE, non-Gnome desktops so they both win there. I think
> easy and up to date package management that does not require futzing with
> dependencies too much is way up there too.
>
> I?ll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in vmware,
> which open source option for virtualization of windows is preferred these
> days? I?ll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there because I?ll at some point
> need some weird piece of windows-only hobbyist software?.
>

How about hyper-v, Oracle virtual box. Docker seems to promote as
virtualization.

Any advice appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com  Tue Sep 10 02:32:29 2019
From: nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com (Brian Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 02:32:29 -0400
Subject: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
In-Reply-To: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
References: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
Message-ID: <20190910063229.GB8622@panix.com>

Charles Sprickman wrote:
> 
> My very brief Googling suggests that 'Project Trident' and
> 'GhostBSD' are the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.

Although recently I've been using a MacOS laptop at home, I ran a
FreeBSD desktop using packages (or packages from a local poudriere
server) at work for many years.

Now that contractor work at my house has died down, and my wired
network is pretty much done, I'm about to build a "new" (old hardware)
desktop using FreeBSD and binary packages.

Getting X up and running by following the instructions in the FreeBSD
Handbook isn't that big a deal.  The only issues I foresee are the
Intel graphics (my last machine predated good support for them), and
possibly getting olvwm working.

At this point I expect the Intel graphics support to be pretty good,
and I'm using old enough hardware (wikipedia tells me I have a Haswell
i5 with HD Graphics 4600) that I shouldn't have to deal with a cutting
edge driver.  If necessary, I can go get a small (the case is SFF),
cheap discrete graphics card.  I'd be sure to pick one with good
FreeBSD driver support.

I last used slim (login manager) with some lightweight desktop
(xfce?).  I'm not a fan of desktops, but I also haven't run olvwm on
anything except Solaris.  I'll have to convert my start-up files from
Open Windows to either xinit or xsession.  This also shouldn't be a
problem, but I'll have to dig through my old archives to find my
preferred start-up files.

I played with PC-BSD quite a while ago, but I didn't see much
advantage compared to just running FreeBSD.  The whole
PC-BSD=>TrueOS=>GhostBSD,Trident thing hasn't left me with much
confidence in their stability.

> I'll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in
> vmware, which open source option for virtualization of windows is
> preferred these days? I'll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there
> because I'll at some point need some weird piece of windows-only
> hobbyist software'

I've run Virtualbox from ports/pkg on a FreeBSD host.  Usually it's to
try out some software temporarily.  I've used various Linux distros,
the *BSDs, and Minix as guest hosts.  I haven't run MS Windows.  I
never had a problem with it.

-- 
Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
"Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  My people
travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 13:00:42 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:00:42 -0400
Subject: [talk] Vintage Commodore VIC 20 computer with monitor in original
 box with manual and 3 games. $200
Message-ID: <5D77D6BA.7000205@gmail.com>

Found this oldie but goodie should you need a nostalgia fix:

Vintage Commodore VIC 20 computer with monitor in original box with
manual and 3 games.


https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/sys/d/staatsburg-commodore-vic-20/6975573452.html



This is NOT me btw.
P



From viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com  Tue Sep 10 13:02:57 2019
From: viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com (Robert Menes)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:02:57 -0400
Subject: [talk] Vintage Commodore VIC 20 computer with monitor in
 original box with manual and 3 games. $200
In-Reply-To: <5D77D6BA.7000205@gmail.com>
References: <5D77D6BA.7000205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TaHT2dkNLo6qkFa5Qn1iY5tLF4aepTye+uFyXDC0Lj1gOZig@mail.gmail.com>

I'd go for it but I've already got a VIC. :)

--Robert

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 13:01 Patrick McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Found this oldie but goodie should you need a nostalgia fix:
>
> Vintage Commodore VIC 20 computer with monitor in original box with
> manual and 3 games.
>
>
>
> https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/sys/d/staatsburg-commodore-vic-20/6975573452.html
>
>
>
> This is NOT me btw.
> P
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Tue Sep 10 15:08:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:08:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] dmesgd on wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <20190910033127.GA8622@panix.com>
References: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190910033127.GA8622@panix.com>
Message-ID: <3765ef68-8b42-56b8-6412-38daa9144022@ceetonetechnology.com>



Brian Reynolds:
> George Rosamond wrote:
>>
>> Sorry to gloat, but I just caught this on the TrueOS page:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS#Hardware_requirements
> 
> For further gloating, NYC*BUG is also mentioned at the end of the
> "Documentation and support" section of the main FreeBSD page.
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Documentation_and_support>
> 

Raul Brian and I are working on a "NYC*BUG Gloating" meeting.  It really
only takes a few mentions on wikipedia...

;)



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Wed Sep 11 16:17:21 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:17:21 -0400
Subject: [talk] Room share needed for EuroBSDCon sept 18-23
In-Reply-To: <97C7E4C2-2FB5-4DF1-9961-E2E18F224EB2@gmail.com>
References: <97C7E4C2-2FB5-4DF1-9961-E2E18F224EB2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <968E2586-1F04-4933-B8CE-968F5543224B@gmail.com>

Room. Done. 
P


> On Sep 9, 2019, at 23:45, Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> If anyone needs a roommate for EuroBSDCon at the event hotel, please let me know. I have roomed with Brian Callahan in the past if you need a roommate reference. Speaking of Dr. C, his porting workshop went over so well this past weekend, it was referenced in a talk the following day. VBSDCON was a blast. The Dr. Vixie talk was fantastic, my only regret is I did not get to ask him to either visit or give a talk for NYC*BUG should he ever find himself in the area. 
> Be well,
> P
> 
> Patrick 
> 



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Sep 11 21:56:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 01:56:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
Message-ID: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>

If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.

I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.

DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.

Of course, you have a privacy policy to trust if that's your thing:

https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/

;)

I think Chrome is doing the same thing.

The OpenBSD Firefox port is turning it off by default, which I hope
other BSD projects follow that example:

https://marc.info/?t=156794163800002&r=1&w=2

This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
use DOT:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver

pref("network.trr.mode", 5);

I have always emphasized the difference between "privacy" and
"anonymity" as concepts for a reason.  One is about protecting content,
the other about obscuring metadata.  You can't get privacy, like
security, through obscurity.  But anonymity is all about obscurity, ie,
hiding and being lost in the larger universe. Privacy is valued by
data-mining firms to protect "their" users from others, but they want to
privacly data mine their own users.

It's great when ugly privacy-attacking practices are just knobs to
switch off, but that's not much consolation in this arms race.

Maybe high-time I do another "Run a BSD Tor Node" meeting again? ;)

g



From pete at nomadlogic.org  Wed Sep 11 22:04:06 2019
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 19:04:06 -0700
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <e886ffda-d290-e8f9-def0-ab44994ec9ef@nomadlogic.org>



On 9/11/19 6:56 PM, George Rosamond wrote:
> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
>
> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
>
> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.
>
> Of course, you have a privacy policy to trust if that's your thing:
>
> https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/
>
> ;)
>
> I think Chrome is doing the same thing.
>
> The OpenBSD Firefox port is turning it off by default, which I hope
> other BSD projects follow that example:
>
> https://marc.info/?t=156794163800002&r=1&w=2
>
> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
> use DOT:
>
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
>
> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);
>
> I have always emphasized the difference between "privacy" and
> "anonymity" as concepts for a reason.  One is about protecting content,
> the other about obscuring metadata.  You can't get privacy, like
> security, through obscurity.  But anonymity is all about obscurity, ie,
> hiding and being lost in the larger universe. Privacy is valued by
> data-mining firms to protect "their" users from others, but they want to
> privacly data mine their own users.
>
> It's great when ugly privacy-attacking practices are just knobs to
> switch off, but that's not much consolation in this arms race.
>
> Maybe high-time I do another "Run a BSD Tor Node" meeting again? ;)

I came across this presentation today by Bert Hubert on this which i 
think is worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjin3nv8jAo

-pete


-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
@nomadlogicLA

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From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Wed Sep 11 22:38:49 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 22:38:49 -0400
Subject: [talk] dmesgd on wikipedia
In-Reply-To: <3765ef68-8b42-56b8-6412-38daa9144022@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <67df2906-f63d-b1d7-d3ac-928d5c07c743@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190910033127.GA8622@panix.com>
 <3765ef68-8b42-56b8-6412-38daa9144022@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <0D50B181-8C39-47E3-820E-6C744E416FB6@gmail.com>



> On Sep 10, 2019, at 15:08, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Brian Reynolds:
>> George Rosamond wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry to gloat, but I just caught this on the TrueOS page:
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueOS#Hardware_requirements
>> 
>> For further gloating, NYC*BUG is also mentioned at the end of the
>> "Documentation and support" section of the main FreeBSD page.
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Documentation_and_support>
>> 
> 
> Raul Brian and I are working on a "NYC*BUG Gloating" meeting.  It really
> only takes a few mentions on wikipedia...
> 
> ;)
> 
> _______________________________________________

Sitting in on a MetaBug meeting in a Con is an experience. NYC*BUG has a lot of fans out there. 


From nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com  Thu Sep 12 18:19:18 2019
From: nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com (Brian Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:19:18 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>

George Rosamond wrote:
> 
> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
> 
> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
> 
> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.

It is my understanding that Paul Vixie was to talk about DNS over
HTTPS.

These both may have privacy and anonymity concerns, but I don't think
that they have the same concerns.

A meeting about both of these methods, and how we got here (i.e., why
not DNSSEC) would be a good one.

> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
> use DOT:
> 
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
> 
> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);

I think you can also change that in Firefox's about:config page.  It
looks like you can change the resolver name an url also.

-- 
Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
"Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  My people
travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway



From mikel.king at gmail.com  Thu Sep 12 18:38:18 2019
From: mikel.king at gmail.com (mikel king)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:38:18 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
Message-ID: <2812960B-E60C-471B-969B-9696AE6910CD@gmail.com>

+1 for Paul Vixie speaking... I?d make the 2+ hr trek for that! ;)

Cheers,
m

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 18:19, Brian Reynolds <nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com> wrote:
> 
> George Rosamond wrote:
>> 
>> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
>> 
>> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
>> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
>> 
>> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
>> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.
> 
> It is my understanding that Paul Vixie was to talk about DNS over
> HTTPS.
> 
> These both may have privacy and anonymity concerns, but I don't think
> that they have the same concerns.
> 
> A meeting about both of these methods, and how we got here (i.e., why
> not DNSSEC) would be a good one.
> 
>> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
>> use DOT:
>> 
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
>> 
>> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);
> 
> I think you can also change that in Firefox's about:config page.  It
> looks like you can change the resolver name an url also.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
> "Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  My people
> travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
> in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Thu Sep 12 19:00:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 23:00:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
Message-ID: <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>



Brian Reynolds:
> George Rosamond wrote:
>>
>> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
>>
>> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
>> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
>>
>> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
>> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.
> 
> It is my understanding that Paul Vixie was to talk about DNS over
> HTTPS.

Ah, I was misinformed!

> 
> These both may have privacy and anonymity concerns, but I don't think
> that they have the same concerns.

Agree.

> 
> A meeting about both of these methods, and how we got here (i.e., why
> not DNSSEC) would be a good one.

Very much.

> 
>> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
>> use DOT:
>>
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
>>
>> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);
> 
> I think you can also change that in Firefox's about:config page.  It
> looks like you can change the resolver name an url also.
> 

Yes, I thought that was obvious, but should have stated.

That line above is what goes into a user.js or however you insert
changes to about:config with new profiles.

g



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 01:27:34 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:27:34 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
 <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>



> On Sep 12, 2019, at 19:00, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Brian Reynolds:
>> George Rosamond wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
>>> 
>>> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
>>> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
>>> 
>>> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
>>> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.
>> 
>> It is my understanding that Paul Vixie was to talk about DNS over
>> HTTPS.
> 
> Ah, I was misinformed!
> 
>> 
>> These both may have privacy and anonymity concerns, but I don't think
>> that they have the same concerns.
> 
> Agree.
> 
>> 
>> A meeting about both of these methods, and how we got here (i.e., why
>> not DNSSEC) would be a good one.
> 
> Very much.
> 
>> 
>>> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
>>> use DOT:
>>> 
>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
>>> 
>>> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);
>> 
>> I think you can also change that in Firefox's about:config page.  It
>> looks like you can change the resolver name an url also.
>> 
> 
> Yes, I thought that was obvious, but should have stated.
> 
> That line above is what goes into a user.js or however you insert
> changes to about:config with new profiles.
> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 

Early opening quote from Vixie talk:
?The law of unintended consequences scales nicely to the size of the internet. ?

Seems to be getting truer every year. 
I hope MWL DNSSEC books get a nice spike in sales. 
P



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep 13 16:20:43 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:20:43 -0400
Subject: [talk] DNS over TLS
In-Reply-To: <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
 <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4CD0772-19D2-4DF7-9D33-9456D1AE46CC@gmail.com>



> On Sep 13, 2019, at 01:27, Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 19:00, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Brian Reynolds:
>>> George Rosamond wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If you haven't heard, Firefox is enabling DOT by default.
>>>> 
>>>> I wasn't at the Vixie talk at vBSDCon on Friday, but apparently it is
>>>> worth hearing. We need to get him to speak when he's in NYC.
>>>> 
>>>> DOT means no more dns lookups over UDP to the locally configured
>>>> resolvers, but all straight to Cloudflare.
>>> 
>>> It is my understanding that Paul Vixie was to talk about DNS over
>>> HTTPS.
>> 
>> Ah, I was misinformed!
>> 
>>> 
>>> These both may have privacy and anonymity concerns, but I don't think
>>> that they have the same concerns.
>> 
>> Agree.
>> 
>>> 
>>> A meeting about both of these methods, and how we got here (i.e., why
>>> not DNSSEC) would be a good one.
>> 
>> Very much.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> This is the relevant js to change in any user.js config file to never
>>>> use DOT:
>>>> 
>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver
>>>> 
>>>> pref("network.trr.mode", 5);
>>> 
>>> I think you can also change that in Firefox's about:config page.  It
>>> looks like you can change the resolver name an url also.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes, I thought that was obvious, but should have stated.
>> 
>> That line above is what goes into a user.js or however you insert
>> changes to about:config with new profiles.
>> 
>> g
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
> 
> Early opening quote from Vixie talk:
> ?The law of unintended consequences scales nicely to the size of the internet. ?
> 
> Seems to be getting truer every year. 
> I hope MWL DNSSEC books get a nice spike in sales. 
> P


Paul Vixie giving his talk again @ EuroBSDCon 9/21 @10:45am ( GMT+2)
I hear there will be streaming WITH DVR  so you can roll back in case of time zone differences. 
> 



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Sun Sep 15 21:58:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 01:58:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
Message-ID: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>

Coming next month:

https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019

I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
on this list did.

Any insight?

Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
aarch64, especially at that price.

g



From raulcuza at gmail.com  Sun Sep 15 23:05:33 2019
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 23:05:33 -0400
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>
> Coming next month:
>
> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>
> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
> on this list did.
>
> Any insight?
>
> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
> aarch64, especially at that price.
>
> g
>

"""
When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering
the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux
and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If
you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will
prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the
Pinebook Pro. Thank you.
"""
Ha!



From rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 00:18:58 2019
From: rambiusparkisanius at gmail.com (Ivan "Rambius" Ivanov)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 00:18:58 -0400
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAE9rwzNQQJ-RpeBZVKQ4Kevx8R+cxuKGWuCAATVF_t=PYAu8dQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>
> Coming next month:
>
> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>
> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
> on this list did.
>
> Any insight?

I bought a pinebook a month ago and I am happy with it. I installed
NetBSD on it and it is actually pretty usable.

Regards
rambius


> g
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk



--
Tangra Mega Rock: http://www.radiotangra.com



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 16 08:51:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:51:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>



Raul Cuza:
> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>> Coming next month:
>>
>> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>>
>> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
>> on this list did.
>>
>> Any insight?
>>
>> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
>> aarch64, especially at that price.
>>
>> g
>>
> 
> """
> When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering
> the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux
> and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If
> you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will
> prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the
> Pinebook Pro. Thank you.
> """
> Ha!

Well, I respectfully disagree with you on that Raul.

You have to realize most people will see "laptop" and assume it's going
to have the support particulars of a Lenovo or Dell.

A similiar notion accompanied Beaglebone, RPIs, etc, and it was just
excepted, even if it wasn't stated explicitly.

The difference is that this is in laptop form, as opposed to a raw board.

I'd approach the laptop as I would any of those other SoC systems. I
wasn't going to complain about various SD-related pickiness, etc with
the other SoCs.

I think it's remarkable that a company would produce such a laptop,
essentially with a dev board inside, at such a reasonable price, aimed
at our community.

I haven't ordered one at this point, but to have an aarch64 device
without worrying about serial or HDMI, etc, in a functional device, is
an accomplishment in itself.

g



From viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 08:54:00 2019
From: viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com (Robert Menes)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:54:00 -0400
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TaHT1wrx0_0SeDxYWoGNsJFsp-2wqNbedBnmEviBUaUdGHSQ@mail.gmail.com>

I might want to pick one of these up and use this as an OpenBSD terminal.
Looks quite interesting.

--Robert

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 21:58 George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com>
wrote:

> Coming next month:
>
>
> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>
> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
> on this list did.
>
> Any insight?
>
> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
> aarch64, especially at that price.
>
> g
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From raulcuza at gmail.com  Mon Sep 16 09:28:12 2019
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 09:28:12 -0400
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2zE4b6KBMntDnRYSF+tQ=Z6b2THYMEUQ=+vV-aNWFg+Pg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 8:51 AM George Rosamond
<george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> Raul Cuza:
> > On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
> > <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Coming next month:
> >>
> >> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
> >>
> >> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
> >> on this list did.
> >>
> >> Any insight?
> >>
> >> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
> >> aarch64, especially at that price.
> >>
> >> g
> >>
> >
> > """
> > When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering
> > the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux
> > and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If
> > you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will
> > prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the
> > Pinebook Pro. Thank you.
> > """
> > Ha!
>
> Well, I respectfully disagree with you on that Raul.
>
> You have to realize most people will see "laptop" and assume it's going
> to have the support particulars of a Lenovo or Dell.
>
> A similiar notion accompanied Beaglebone, RPIs, etc, and it was just
> excepted, even if it wasn't stated explicitly.
>
> The difference is that this is in laptop form, as opposed to a raw board.
>
> I'd approach the laptop as I would any of those other SoC systems. I
> wasn't going to complain about various SD-related pickiness, etc with
> the other SoCs.
>
> I think it's remarkable that a company would produce such a laptop,
> essentially with a dev board inside, at such a reasonable price, aimed
> at our community.
>
> I haven't ordered one at this point, but to have an aarch64 device
> without worrying about serial or HDMI, etc, in a functional device, is
> an accomplishment in itself.
>
> g

I disagree that you disagree with me. I complete agree with your
sentiments and if my three character commentary did not convey my
appreciation for Pinebook "putting themselves out there" then that is
entirely my fault. Putting that statement clearly in their sales
material is smart and hopefully will attract the kind of people who
make their offerings even better through FOSS development.

I've seen many companies over the years offer development hardware in
this price range. Most do not last long for the reasons stated in the
quote from Pinebook. It only takes one or two people who don't "get
it" to burn the good will of the people offering this kind of hardware
in a non-profit manner. Or they are not getting back what they need to
keep doing it.

In other words, I should of said "Thank you." and "May the wind be at
their backs." and "I really wish I had not recently bought a $194 used
Dell for my child to use for homework, because I should of got him a
Pinebook." Maybe it isn't too late.

Ra?l



From nonesuch at longcount.org  Mon Sep 16 17:46:20 2019
From: nonesuch at longcount.org (Mark Saad)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:46:20 -0400
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <4BC3C13D-D71A-487F-A398-C8CCC60DFFD6@longcount.org>




> On Sep 16, 2019, at 8:51 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Raul Cuza:
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
>> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Coming next month:
>>> 
>>> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>>> 
>>> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
>>> on this list did.
>>> 
>>> Any insight?
>>> 
>>> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
>>> aarch64, especially at that price.
>>> 
>>> g
>>> 
>> 
>> """
>> When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering
>> the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux
>> and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If
>> you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will
>> prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the
>> Pinebook Pro. Thank you.
>> """
>> Ha!
> 
> Well, I respectfully disagree with you on that Raul.
> 
> You have to realize most people will see "laptop" and assume it's going
> to have the support particulars of a Lenovo or Dell.
> 
> A similiar notion accompanied Beaglebone, RPIs, etc, and it was just
> excepted, even if it wasn't stated explicitly.
> 
> The difference is that this is in laptop form, as opposed to a raw board.
> 
> I'd approach the laptop as I would any of those other SoC systems. I
> wasn't going to complain about various SD-related pickiness, etc with
> the other SoCs.
> 
> I think it's remarkable that a company would produce such a laptop,
> essentially with a dev board inside, at such a reasonable price, aimed
> at our community.
> 
> I haven't ordered one at this point, but to have an aarch64 device
> without worrying about serial or HDMI, etc, in a functional device, is
> an accomplishment in itself.
> 
> g
> 

As an owner of a Lenovo x250, which I recently acquired on eBay, it?s hard for me to pick the pinebook as a daily driver . It looks like it could be fun to play with , but it?s a glorified android tablet . The x250 has the ports , ram and storage I want out of box . 

I am still waiting for someone to sell an arm that is better equipped; and not stupidly expensive. 



---
Mark Saad | nonesuch at longcount.org


> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 16 17:58:00 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 21:58:00 +0000
Subject: [talk] new 14" Pinebook
In-Reply-To: <4BC3C13D-D71A-487F-A398-C8CCC60DFFD6@longcount.org>
References: <25dee10b-f4ac-62fb-02bf-64947fc5edeb@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <CAOnfn2xh7sXMaCgDfsfAmO3Uaj+_EAmVpQSy4u__5EB44gdU=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <e56f2e96-1e58-1124-fed3-985b49719f23@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <4BC3C13D-D71A-487F-A398-C8CCC60DFFD6@longcount.org>
Message-ID: <ce49d89f-fa66-fe02-1162-a9de0da42cb0@ceetonetechnology.com>



Mark Saad:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2019, at 8:51 AM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Raul Cuza:
>>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 9:58 PM George Rosamond
>>> <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Coming next month:
>>>>
>>>> https://store.pine64.org/?product=14%e2%80%b3-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-64gb-emmc-iso-keyboard-estimated-dispatch-in-october-2019
>>>>
>>>> I never got around to getting the previous line, but I think some people
>>>> on this list did.
>>>>
>>>> Any insight?
>>>>
>>>> Even if it's not a perfect solution, it definitely seems worth it having
>>>> aarch64, especially at that price.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>>
>>>
>>> """
>>> When fulfilling the purchase, please bear in mind that we are offering
>>> the Pinebook Pro at this price as a community service to PINE64, Linux
>>> and BSD communities. We make no profit from selling these units. If
>>> you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel, will
>>> prompt you to file a PayPal dispute then please do not purchase the
>>> Pinebook Pro. Thank you.
>>> """
>>> Ha!
>>
>> Well, I respectfully disagree with you on that Raul.
>>
>> You have to realize most people will see "laptop" and assume it's going
>> to have the support particulars of a Lenovo or Dell.
>>
>> A similiar notion accompanied Beaglebone, RPIs, etc, and it was just
>> excepted, even if it wasn't stated explicitly.
>>
>> The difference is that this is in laptop form, as opposed to a raw board.
>>
>> I'd approach the laptop as I would any of those other SoC systems. I
>> wasn't going to complain about various SD-related pickiness, etc with
>> the other SoCs.
>>
>> I think it's remarkable that a company would produce such a laptop,
>> essentially with a dev board inside, at such a reasonable price, aimed
>> at our community.
>>
>> I haven't ordered one at this point, but to have an aarch64 device
>> without worrying about serial or HDMI, etc, in a functional device, is
>> an accomplishment in itself.
>>
>> g
>>
> 
> As an owner of a Lenovo x250, which I recently acquired on eBay, it?s hard for me to pick the pinebook as a daily driver . It looks like it could be fun to play with , but it?s a glorified android tablet . The x250 has the ports , ram and storage I want out of box . 
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to sell an arm that is better equipped; and not stupidly expensive. 

I get that.

But again, for those who've spent a lot of time tinkering with ARM and
MIPS, the idea of having the laptop form for compiling ports, etc.,
instead of some little board dangling on a string with a bunch of cables
coming out of it.. it's a pleasant leap.

You don't see a day-to-day work laptop for that little and think it's
adequate... you're giving up something, or more than one thing.

But considering it's the most affordable aarch64 device with a kb,
video, usb and ethernet, it's a great deal. It's accessible for
developers, and there for end-users to sample with a low barrier of entry.

Hats off to the them for that.  Anyone remember when amd64 wasn't yet on
laptops?  Did anyone poo-poo those Yeeloong MIPS laptops since they
didn't match the current Thinkpad at the time?  Can anyone imagine what
Lenovo or Dell would charge today for an aarch64 laptop with similar specs?

Sorry, yes ranting. But it's an awesome gateway to aarch64 for many, and
you can't compare apples to oranges here.

g



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Tue Sep 17 16:41:48 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:41:48 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein  talk options
Message-ID: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>

Hello All,
Next month I am happy to announce we will have Ori Bernstein (ori at openbsd) out from the west coast to give the October NYC*Bug talk. But we need your help! Below are some of the options on offer from Ori. Please email either the list or me directly with your vote from the options below and we will have a talk to remember! Also, how does the group feel about a November installfest? Robert expressed and interest and I am sure we have others who would be up for it.


> 
> Possible talk options from Ori:
> 
> ===
Option 1:
> I can possibly do the talk on QCOW2 internals from BSDCan 
> 
> Option 2:
How system
> 
> calls work, or something else that you're curious about (suggestions here are
> welcome)
> 
Option 3:
> I can add a bit more of a BSD flavor to a talk I did at ACCU on how futexes work,
> and how you can implement concurrency primitives on them -- I'd be zooming in on
> the implementation details in the OpenBSD kernel if I did this.

> Option 4:
> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I have a rant
> on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably lighter/more entertaining,
> and definitely the most easily accessible to non-developers, but it's also not
> really BSD.
> ====
> 
> Any opinions, express them soon or forever hold your complaints. 
> 
> Looks like we will hav an out of towner for the Oct meeting!
Be well,
P

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From steve.b at osfda.org  Tue Sep 17 19:22:44 2019
From: steve.b at osfda.org (steve.b at osfda.org)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 19:22:44 -0400
Subject: [talk] bitcoin+python...
In-Reply-To: <F4CD0772-19D2-4DF7-9D33-9456D1AE46CC@gmail.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
 <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>
 <F4CD0772-19D2-4DF7-9D33-9456D1AE46CC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <398b3e86-dfe9-bbde-c9db-27e2ebed54bf@osfda.org>

I did some code today for address generation in bitcoin; due to its 
results being at odds with a popular library online, I wanted someone to 
check my handiwork. If you happen to find digital currency tech as 
interesting as I do, please contact me directly off this list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a pretty brief collection of statements for public key generation 
(but using an UNCOMPRESSED public key -normally compressed public keys 
are used in bitcoin to generate addresses, and that might explain the 
discrepancy...) It follows a methodology laid out in an introductory 
article on generating addresses. The code is brief, but the theory can 
be a challenge.

No, this is not directly BSD related; but seeing as how this user group 
is the deeper end of the technical pool, perhaps someone else would find 
it interesting too (we can IMMEDIATELY reconnoiter off this list...)

Sorry for the Email if you're not into it, but that's all I'll say on 
this channel. [If the date was close to the next meeting, I would just 
ask there; but time is tight for me, and we're still a couple of weeks 
away from that...]


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From kmsujit at gmail.com  Wed Sep 18 09:39:46 2019
From: kmsujit at gmail.com (Sujit K M)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:09:46 +0530
Subject: [talk] bitcoin+python...
In-Reply-To: <398b3e86-dfe9-bbde-c9db-27e2ebed54bf@osfda.org>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
 <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>
 <F4CD0772-19D2-4DF7-9D33-9456D1AE46CC@gmail.com>
 <398b3e86-dfe9-bbde-c9db-27e2ebed54bf@osfda.org>
Message-ID: <CA+6mNeq5J5YaDcv9c0_4+q+f1GnHc_cL160-FSH9O_c1W+6ckw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:53 AM steve.b at osfda.org <steve.b at osfda.org> wrote:

> I did some code today for address generation in bitcoin; due to its
> results being at odds with a popular library online, I wanted someone to
> check my handiwork. If you happen to find digital currency tech as
> interesting as I do, please contact me directly off this list.
> ------------------------------
>
> It's a pretty brief collection of statements for public key generation
> (but using an UNCOMPRESSED public key -normally compressed public keys are
> used in bitcoin to generate addresses, and that might explain the
> discrepancy...) It follows a methodology laid out in an introductory
> article on generating addresses. The code is brief, but the theory can be a
> challenge.
>
> No, this is not directly BSD related; but seeing as how this user group is
> the deeper end of the technical pool, perhaps someone else would find it
> interesting too (we can IMMEDIATELY reconnoiter off this list...)
>
> Sorry for the Email if you're not into it, but that's all I'll say on this
> channel. [If the date was close to the next meeting, I would just ask
> there; but time is tight for me, and we're still a couple of weeks away
> from that...]
>
>
I might be of no help. But currently working at work how to hide encrypted
data. Use only one public encrypted API key. Not only that it's not web
application. But looks like it is a loopy mess with the current technology.

>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From steve.b at osfda.org  Wed Sep 18 09:45:11 2019
From: steve.b at osfda.org (steve.b at osfda.org)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:45:11 -0400
Subject: [talk] bitcoin+python...
In-Reply-To: <CA+6mNeq5J5YaDcv9c0_4+q+f1GnHc_cL160-FSH9O_c1W+6ckw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e6a92c1-a385-09ba-1856-7d4553895221@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190912221918.GA23075@panix.com>
 <cc2faed7-8466-7d95-12ec-aab0635cba7d@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <BE4A2904-BE48-4032-8193-909EFFEA4557@gmail.com>
 <F4CD0772-19D2-4DF7-9D33-9456D1AE46CC@gmail.com>
 <398b3e86-dfe9-bbde-c9db-27e2ebed54bf@osfda.org>
 <CA+6mNeq5J5YaDcv9c0_4+q+f1GnHc_cL160-FSH9O_c1W+6ckw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <589fba8d-10c3-1f03-7f73-643cc02b0209@osfda.org>

Well, I got one taker to check my approach.

Last night I walked through two code examples from differing authors on 
generating addresses and finally got them to agree (the variance was due 
to a hex string conversion at one step...)

This has to do with an older way of generating addresses that is no 
longer done: using /*uncompressed*/ keys.

Back in the days when ""Satoshi"" was active online, he was using them...

On 9/18/2019 9:39 AM, Sujit K M wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 4:53 AM steve.b at osfda.org 
> <mailto:steve.b at osfda.org> <steve.b at osfda.org 
> <mailto:steve.b at osfda.org>> wrote:
>
>     I did some code today for address generation in bitcoin; due to
>     its results being at odds with a popular library online, I wanted
>     someone to check my handiwork. If you happen to find digital
>     currency tech as interesting as I do, please contact me directly
>     off this list.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     It's a pretty brief collection of statements for public key
>     generation (but using an UNCOMPRESSED public key -normally
>     compressed public keys are used in bitcoin to generate addresses,
>     and that might explain the discrepancy...) It follows a
>     methodology laid out in an introductory article on generating
>     addresses. The code is brief, but the theory can be a challenge.
>
>     No, this is not directly BSD related; but seeing as how this user
>     group is the deeper end of the technical pool, perhaps someone
>     else would find it interesting too (we can IMMEDIATELY reconnoiter
>     off this list...)
>
>     Sorry for the Email if you're not into it, but that's all I'll say
>     on this channel. [If the date was close to the next meeting, I
>     would just ask there; but time is tight for me, and we're still a
>     couple of weeks away from that...]
>
>
> I might be of no help. But currently working at work how to hide 
> encrypted data. Use only one public encrypted API key. Not only that 
> it's not web application. But looks like it is a loopy mess with the 
> current technology.
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     talk mailing list
>     talk at lists.nycbug.org <mailto:talk at lists.nycbug.org>
>     http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From njt at ayvali.org  Wed Sep 18 14:38:23 2019
From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:38:23 -0700
Subject: [talk] ThinkPad X270 ($429) -- good idea?
Message-ID: <20190918183823.GG26727@ayvali.org>

In the market for a cheap and small BSD laptop. Lenovo has the X270 on
sale right now:

    https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/ThinkPad-X270/p/22TP2TX2700

It's not fancy, but the $429 price-point is very nice.

(They also have a netbook-sized 11" laptop called the 11e (Gen 5) which
they market as a "student laptop" (I don't know what makes it "student"
other than the size/price), but that's slightly more expensive ($560)
and I don't know anyone running BSD on it, so I'll stay away from it.)

Any reason not to get the X270? I'll only be using it to SSH and some
light web browsing, so I don't need anything crazy powerful.

Thomas



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Wed Sep 18 14:45:49 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 14:45:49 -0400
Subject: [talk] ThinkPad X270 ($429) -- good idea?
In-Reply-To: <20190918183823.GG26727@ayvali.org>
References: <20190918183823.GG26727@ayvali.org>
Message-ID: <491093e5-abdc-e4a9-6961-dd23596cb7a6@ceetonetechnology.com>



N.J. Thomas:
> In the market for a cheap and small BSD laptop. Lenovo has the X270 on
> sale right now:
> 
>     https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/ThinkPad-X270/p/22TP2TX2700
> 
> It's not fancy, but the $429 price-point is very nice.
> 
> (They also have a netbook-sized 11" laptop called the 11e (Gen 5) which
> they market as a "student laptop" (I don't know what makes it "student"
> other than the size/price), but that's slightly more expensive ($560)
> and I don't know anyone running BSD on it, so I'll stay away from it.)
> 
> Any reason not to get the X270? I'll only be using it to SSH and some
> light web browsing, so I don't need anything crazy powerful.

I think there's many people running BSDs on that.. check dmesgd.

I'm completely happy with all the x2?? series I've dealt with.  x230 is
my current and next laptop.  IIRC, lighter than the x240, and dirt cheap.

I do with the old x120e series with 11.4" screen was revised... I mean,
was there anything better than an x40?

g



From njt at ayvali.org  Wed Sep 18 15:45:19 2019
From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 12:45:19 -0700
Subject: [talk] ThinkPad X270 ($429) -- good idea?
In-Reply-To: <491093e5-abdc-e4a9-6961-dd23596cb7a6@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <20190918183823.GG26727@ayvali.org>
 <491093e5-abdc-e4a9-6961-dd23596cb7a6@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <20190918194519.GA47278@ayvali.org>

* George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> [2019-09-18 14:45:49-0400]:
> > In the market for a cheap and small BSD laptop. Lenovo has the X270
> > on sale right now:
>
> I think there's many people running BSDs on that.. check dmesgd.

Yup, I had checked this. Loads of folks running the X270 with no
problems. No one is running the 11e, as far as I can tell.

> I'm completely happy with all the x2?? series I've dealt with.  x230
> is my current and next laptop.  IIRC, lighter than the x240, and dirt
> cheap.

Yeah, pretty much everyone who has the X series has only good things to
say about it, so I will pull the trigger on the X270.

> I do with the old x120e series with 11.4" screen was revised... I
> mean, was there anything better than an x40?

Yeah, I was hoping to go smaller than 12.5", and I'm surprised I found
the ThinkPad 11e with the 11.6" screen. I thought pretty much all the
manufacturers had abandoned anything smaller than a 12.5" screen to
avoid cannibalizing their 14"+ laptop markets.

Thomas



From gnn at neville-neil.com  Wed Sep 18 16:05:11 2019
From: gnn at neville-neil.com (George Neville-Neil)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 21:05:11 +0100
Subject: [talk] ThinkPad X270 ($429) -- good idea?
In-Reply-To: <20190918194519.GA47278@ayvali.org>
References: <20190918183823.GG26727@ayvali.org>
 <491093e5-abdc-e4a9-6961-dd23596cb7a6@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <20190918194519.GA47278@ayvali.org>
Message-ID: <9AFCA5D6-0067-4A7F-B309-96BDEF99E3DF@neville-neil.com>



On 18 Sep 2019, at 20:45, N.J. Thomas wrote:

> * George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> [2019-09-18 
> 14:45:49-0400]:
>>> In the market for a cheap and small BSD laptop. Lenovo has the X270
>>> on sale right now:
>>
>> I think there's many people running BSDs on that.. check dmesgd.
>
> Yup, I had checked this. Loads of folks running the X270 with no
> problems. No one is running the 11e, as far as I can tell.
>
>> I'm completely happy with all the x2?? series I've dealt with.  x230
>> is my current and next laptop.  IIRC, lighter than the x240, and dirt
>> cheap.
>
> Yeah, pretty much everyone who has the X series has only good things 
> to
> say about it, so I will pull the trigger on the X270.
>
>> I do with the old x120e series with 11.4" screen was revised... I
>> mean, was there anything better than an x40?
>
> Yeah, I was hoping to go smaller than 12.5", and I'm surprised I found
> the ThinkPad 11e with the 11.6" screen. I thought pretty much all the
> manufacturers had abandoned anything smaller than a 12.5" screen to
> avoid cannibalizing their 14"+ laptop markets.
>

Up until (and including) the 270 the 2XX series has been the laptop of 
choice for FreeBSD developers, including myself, and I note that BSD 
conference have plenty of Lenovo boxes running all the BSD.  The loss of 
the built in ethernet port on the 280 sent me to the X1 Carbon during 
this upgrade season.  If I was going to have to carry a dongle I was at 
least going to get a lighter laptop out of it.  I've always been happy 
with the Lenovo machines.

Best,
George



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep 20 12:07:04 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:07:04 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein  talk options
In-Reply-To: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
References: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F558041B-816F-4243-8DD6-F27268086F6A@gmail.com>

Any thoughts on this?
P


> On Sep 17, 2019, at 16:41, Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> Next month I am happy to announce we will have Ori Bernstein (ori at openbsd) out from the west coast to give the October NYC*Bug talk. But we need your help! Below are some of the options on offer from Ori. Please email either the list or me directly with your vote from the options below and we will have a talk to remember! Also, how does the group feel about a November installfest? Robert expressed and interest and I am sure we have others who would be up for it.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Possible talk options from Ori:
>> 
>> ===
> Option 1:
>> I can possibly do the talk on QCOW2 internals from BSDCan 
>> 
>> Option 2:
> How system
>> 
>> calls work, or something else that you're curious about (suggestions here are
>> welcome)
>> 
> Option 3:
>> I can add a bit more of a BSD flavor to a talk I did at ACCU on how futexes work,
>> and how you can implement concurrency primitives on them -- I'd be zooming in on
>> the implementation details in the OpenBSD kernel if I did this.
> 
>> Option 4:
>> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I have a rant
>> on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably lighter/more entertaining,
>> and definitely the most easily accessible to non-developers, but it's also not
>> really BSD.
>> ====
>> 
>> Any opinions, express them soon or forever hold your complaints. 
>> 
>> Looks like we will hav an out of towner for the Oct meeting!
>> 
> Be well,
> P
> 
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From viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com  Fri Sep 20 12:15:30 2019
From: viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com (Robert Menes)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:15:30 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein talk options
In-Reply-To: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
References: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TaHT0UtpSyUrLvFkG9Sf39hRytQRh7b4A0C8UpCXbJePnwkg@mail.gmail.com>

My votes are on Option 2 and Option 4.

I know other Unix-likes are not exactly BSD oriented, but it's always
interesting to hear how all of these OSes influenced one another in some
way or form.

As for an installfest, I'm most certainly down for one still. I've got some
gear to try installs on (probably not gonna dig the Dreamcast out though).

--Robert

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 16:42 Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
> Next month I am happy to announce we will have Ori Bernstein (ori at openbsd)
> out from the west coast to give the October NYC*Bug talk. But we need your
> help! Below are some of the options on offer from Ori. Please email either
> the list or me directly with your vote from the options below and we will
> have a talk to remember! Also, how does the group feel about a November
> installfest? Robert expressed and interest and I am sure we have others who
> would be up for it.
>
>
>
> Possible talk options from Ori:
>
> ===
>
> Option 1:
>
> I can possibly do the talk on QCOW2 internals from BSDCan
>
> Option 2:
>
> How system
>
> calls work, or something else that you're curious about (suggestions here
> are
> welcome)
>
> Option 3:
>
> I can add a bit more of a BSD flavor to a talk I did at ACCU on how
> futexes work,
> and how you can implement concurrency primitives on them -- I'd be zooming
> in on
> the implementation details in the OpenBSD kernel if I did this.
>
>
> Option 4:
> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I have a
> rant
> on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably lighter/more
> entertaining,
> and definitely the most easily accessible to non-developers, but it's also
> not
> really BSD.
> ====
>
> Any opinions, express them soon or forever hold your complaints.
>
> Looks like we will hav an out of towner for the Oct meeting!
>
> Be well,
> P
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com  Fri Sep 20 14:01:01 2019
From: nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com (Brian Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 14:01:01 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein  talk options
In-Reply-To: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
References: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20190920180101.GB23403@panix.com>

Pat McEvoy wrote:
> > 
> > Possible talk options from Ori:
> > 
> > ===

[snip]

> > Option 4:
> > 
> > And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I
> > have a rant on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably
> > lighter/more entertaining, and definitely the most easily
> > accessible to non-developers, but it's also not really BSD.

I like Option 4.  As an alternative Option 2 (system calls) could be
interesting.

I'm also up for an installfest.  I have a couple of oddball machines
I'd like to get FreeBSD or NetBSD on.

-- 
Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
"Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  .  My people
travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway



From eric at rigelfore.com  Fri Sep 20 13:57:49 2019
From: eric at rigelfore.com (Eric Melville)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:57:49 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein  talk options
In-Reply-To: <F558041B-816F-4243-8DD6-F27268086F6A@gmail.com>
References: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
 <F558041B-816F-4243-8DD6-F27268086F6A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <892F6A69-911F-42E8-893E-92CB9868C5C9@rigelfore.com>

I am all for #1, but no one needs to cater to me, and I might not even make it.

- iPhone mail

> On Sep 20, 2019, at 12:07 PM, Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any thoughts on this?
> P
> 
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2019, at 16:41, Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> Next month I am happy to announce we will have Ori Bernstein (ori at openbsd) out from the west coast to give the October NYC*Bug talk. But we need your help! Below are some of the options on offer from Ori. Please email either the list or me directly with your vote from the options below and we will have a talk to remember! Also, how does the group feel about a November installfest? Robert expressed and interest and I am sure we have others who would be up for it.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Possible talk options from Ori:
>>> 
>>> ===
>> Option 1:
>>> I can possibly do the talk on QCOW2 internals from BSDCan 
>>> 
>>> Option 2:
>> How system
>>> 
>>> calls work, or something else that you're curious about (suggestions here are
>>> welcome)
>>> 
>> Option 3:
>>> I can add a bit more of a BSD flavor to a talk I did at ACCU on how futexes work,
>>> and how you can implement concurrency primitives on them -- I'd be zooming in on
>>> the implementation details in the OpenBSD kernel if I did this.
>> 
>>> Option 4:
>>> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I have a rant
>>> on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably lighter/more entertaining,
>>> and definitely the most easily accessible to non-developers, but it's also not
>>> really BSD.
>>> ====
>>> 
>>> Any opinions, express them soon or forever hold your complaints. 
>>> 
>>> Looks like we will hav an out of towner for the Oct meeting!
>>> 
>> Be well,
>> P
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
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From pete at nomadlogic.org  Fri Sep 20 20:09:22 2019
From: pete at nomadlogic.org (Pete Wright)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 17:09:22 -0700
Subject: [talk] public "private" dns resolver
Message-ID: <828af37c-c0bc-79a7-950a-05f92abb0353@nomadlogic.org>

so in light of all the recent sillyness of mozilla enabling DoH and all 
that it got me thinking it is past due for me to stop using my home ISP 
DNS servers.? i do have a server colo'd with an ISP i trust, so my first 
thought is to fire up a jail and setup unbound as a recursive resolver 
that i would then point my home at.? seems simple enough.

so on a scale of meh to omg-kill-it-with-fire would running a random 
resolver with no ACL's on the public internet be?? i've run resolvers 
(which had ACL's enabled) on the public net for work as well as public 
bind servers doing anycast - so i feel confident i won't horribly mess 
up my configuration.? i'd like to avoid setting restricting access as i 
want to avoid a hassle if my home internet ip changes, or if i want to 
use this resolver while i'm on the road.

thoughts?
-pete

-- 
Pete Wright
pete at nomadlogic.org
@nomadlogicLA



From raulcuza at gmail.com  Fri Sep 20 21:31:19 2019
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 21:31:19 -0400
Subject: [talk] public "private" dns resolver
In-Reply-To: <828af37c-c0bc-79a7-950a-05f92abb0353@nomadlogic.org>
References: <828af37c-c0bc-79a7-950a-05f92abb0353@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2yJtrQY6Pki7_ZuJxebSQ3Ua4hLw75xrryHCgprZQ=2OQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 20:09 Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> wrote:

> so in light of all the recent sillyness of mozilla enabling DoH and all
> that it got me thinking it is past due for me to stop using my home ISP
> DNS servers.  i do have a server colo'd with an ISP i trust, so my first
> thought is to fire up a jail and setup unbound as a recursive resolver
> that i would then point my home at.  seems simple enough.
>
> so on a scale of meh to omg-kill-it-with-fire would running a random
> resolver with no ACL's on the public internet be?  i've run resolvers
> (which had ACL's enabled) on the public net for work as well as public
> bind servers doing anycast - so i feel confident i won't horribly mess
> up my configuration.  i'd like to avoid setting restricting access as i
> want to avoid a hassle if my home internet ip changes, or if i want to
> use this resolver while i'm on the road.
>
> thoughts?
> -pete
>
> --
> Pete Wright
> pete at nomadlogic.org
> @nomadlogicLA
>

If you are sending DNS requests over UDP, no matter what DNS server you are
using, the companies that own the pipe between you and your server can mine
information about you.

You could set up something like DNSCrypt [
https://www.opendns.com/about/innovations/dnscrypt/] to protect yourself.
Basically, create an encrypted tunnel from your computer to your trusted
server and run a DNS proxy on your computer that uses the tunnel. The
tunnel can use whatever authorization you feel comfortable with using.

The encrypted tunnel can be on whatever port you wish I'm case you are on a
draconian network.


DNS over TLS also sounds interesting. This could have certificate
authentication, too.

Hmmm. Sounds like a fun project.

Ra?l

>
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From njt at ayvali.org  Sun Sep 22 02:53:10 2019
From: njt at ayvali.org (N.J. Thomas)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 23:53:10 -0700
Subject: [talk] public "private" dns resolver
In-Reply-To: <828af37c-c0bc-79a7-950a-05f92abb0353@nomadlogic.org>
References: <828af37c-c0bc-79a7-950a-05f92abb0353@nomadlogic.org>
Message-ID: <20190922065310.GE49710@ayvali.org>

* Pete Wright <pete at nomadlogic.org> [2019-09-20 17:09:22-0700]:
> so on a scale of meh to omg-kill-it-with-fire would running a random
> resolver with no ACL's on the public internet be?
[...]
> up my configuration.? i'd like to avoid setting restricting access as i 
> want to avoid a hassle if my home internet ip changes

Two quick/random ideas off the top of my head:

    - set your DNS server ACLs to allow the netblock(s) for your cable
      modem company, one could argue this is not as bad as opening it up
      to the public internet

    - I don't think you have one judging from your post...but you could
      setup a cheap pfsense box at home and use spiped or some similar
      setup to connect to your your public server; your name server
      would listen locally, and spiped would encrypt the connection and
      pipe it home to your pfsense box (you would have to do some work
      if the IP changes, but I think that's scriptable)

Thomas



From spork at bway.net  Mon Sep 23 03:17:12 2019
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 03:17:12 -0400
Subject: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
In-Reply-To: <8e25aae0-1e09-05c2-fdf6-32d1e6da8675@ceetonetechnology.com>
References: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
 <8e25aae0-1e09-05c2-fdf6-32d1e6da8675@ceetonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <28C5B847-9F03-4D81-8B66-7BABC7A16421@bway.net>

I?m going to top-post here, apologies.

So basically, the input I got here was from George, with ?try OpenBSD? which is helpful because I had no idea OpenBSD now has a binary upgrade option. This is important to me - I do not want to compile anything other than some oddball small stuff that can?t be found in the package repo. I just wanted to try an open source desktop option and I?m really not ready to wade into the unending options that Linux has.

So on the George/Open BSD front, I will be trying it, more on that later.

Brian?s input was similar. The idea of touching an X config file again does fill me with dread - I lost my taste for conquering that stuff long ago and honestly thought by this point in time we?d be beyond X, but nope. I?ll also take a stab at a vanilla FreeBSD install, going to attempt to make that pkg-only.

Some things I found out:

- I don?t have a Core2Duo, turns out I already took that to recycling. What I have is my last hackintosh which is an i3 with a discrete (but cheap) NVidia card.

- What started this is a pile of questionable drives a client dumped on me that all needed to be hit with DBAN, checked with smartmontools, then sorted into bad, good but useless, or good and usable, and I needed a generic ?real? PC to boot DBAN and that when I started digging for old hardware

- The above process left me with two working 600GB 10K ?VelociRaptor? drives that are not SSD fast, but pretty fast - dual booting for testing is just booting one drive or another so I don?t have to think about fancy bootloaders or breaking my ?good? install

- This mainboard sucks for booting USB flash drives and seems very picky about bootable USB media, including being able to totally lock the PC up (power cycle required) with both the GhostBSD and Project Trident images, and this is a problem I didn?t solve (directly?)

- I do still have a stack of blank DVDs (but no blank CDs apparently), and that boot method is reliable (except for the one bad burn that left the dang DVD drive looping on a block it couldn?t read on the Trident DVD for about 4 hours, leading to a very toasty DVD drive)

- My stock of optical media drives is really low, where did they all go?

- Any bootable media problems are extremely time-consuming and I wish we?d standardized on some kind of netboot scheme for this stuff, I lost hours and it was not a learning experience

Anyhow, my verdict for now is that Project Trident is pretty good, and GhostBSD is a close second. My criteria was basically ?do I get all the modern cool stuff like ZFS?? and ?Do I get a fairly lightweight desktop environment that requires zero configuration??. I did not touch a config file with either, but Trident won in that it picked the right combo to get me accelerated graphics. GhostBSD got me full resolution, but video playback was a slideshow. I also kind of like that out of the box Trident gives you either a really minimal option (I think xfce?) or their own ?Lumina? desktop environment which seems pretty svelte. GhostBSD has Mate, which is apparently an older version of Gnome and I?m not a fan. There?s another option, but it was not obvious to me how to switch (Tridnet gives you the option at login).

Trident allowed me to add Firefox and Chromium with no issues, video playback ?just worked?, as did sound. The GUI pkg manager is fine for exploring and if you dip into the command line and do ?pkg install somepkg? it?s all the same. There are some minimal GUI tools for firewall and service config. OpenRC is used, not really a fan (I mean, I?m running freebsd and I have to google how to enable sshd at startup?). Oh, also not sure if this is a FreeBSD 12 thing or a TrueOS thing or a Trident thing, but swap gets encrypted out of the box which was unexpected.

Anyhow that?s my jumbled story of getting a BSD desktop for my garage workshop going. I?m staying with Trident for now, but I?ve made it easy for myself to look at other options by having a spare drive mounted in the case.

Oh, also my PSU was dead, scavenged this hilarity from an old P4-era 1U supermicro box that somehow escaped e-waste recycling:

https://i.imgur.com/ij5TtuQ.jpg

(I now have a proper PSU in there, but I also have 3 SATA cables and a power cable leaking out one of the card slots so I don?t have to open the case when I need to pop a few drives in for some oddball task)

I?ll also note I didn?t loathe PC-BSD - the whole ?this package includes what you want to run plus all the dependencies? was both crazy and practical. :)

Thanks all,

Charles

> On Sep 9, 2019, at 9:30 PM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Sprickman:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The closest I?ve come to desktop *nix that?s not OS-X for the last decade is occasionally peeking at a random Linux distro in vmware fusion?
>> 
>> I?ve got enough spare junk around to put together a Core2Duo desktop (8GB RAM, Nvidia 7500-series video) with a decent monitor in my workshop area. I have so little desire to learn Linux systemd stuff at this point, so I thought I?d check in to see what happened to PC-BSD (it?s dead, it seems).
>> 
>> My very brief Googling suggests that ?Project Trident? and ?GhostBSD? are the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.
>> 
>> Any feelings on either? I want simple, all binary packages (do NOT want to build Chrome or the latest CLANG on a Core2Duo), and that?s about it. Both seem to offer non-KDE, non-Gnome desktops so they both win there. I think easy and up to date package management that does not require futzing with dependencies too much is way up there too.
>> 
>> I?ll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in vmware, which open source option for virtualization of windows is preferred these days? I?ll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there because I?ll at some point need some weird piece of windows-only hobbyist software?
>> 
>> Any advice appreciated!
> 
> Hey Spork...
> 
> I don't follow the *BSD desktop stuff and didn't give the time to PC-BSD
> that it probably deserved, but I feel like the old era of bad binary
> packages in far in the past overall.
> 
> PC-BSD is now TrueOS https://www.trueos.org/...
> 
> With OpenBSD it's all so simple, and I think it's the same with FreeBSD
> at least. The old days of needing to use ports on FreeBSD to get what
> you want seem to be far over.
> 
> Binary packages have always been the preferred method for OpenBSD users,
> and they always just seem to work.  And as of recently, there are now
> binary packages for OpenBSD -stable for at least amd64 and i386:
> 
> https://ftp4.usa.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.5/packages/
> 
> Tools like sysupgrade and syspatch also eliminate another need for
> keeping the source local and using patch(1).
> 
> And not using some repackaged BSD distro means sticking with strong
> project support.
> 
> I know it's not necessarily "parent-friendly", but dealing with dangling
> files is simple enough.
> 
> You can dump your core packages with "pkg_info -m", delete all the
> packages, then just readd the package from the output of `-m`.
> 
> I really can't imagine things being any easier than today with binary
> packages.
> 
> The one thing I do wish for which is a wip in my ports tree is a
> stripped down xfce. Custom packages are nice, but aren't really in the
> vein of what you're talking about either. And the default package
> configs address what I think you're seeking...
> 
> When it comes to vmware, etc, I have no thoughts or comments!
> 
> Not sure if this even approaches your query, but thought I'd give you my
> $0.02.
> 
> g
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk



From george at ceetonetechnology.com  Mon Sep 23 17:48:53 2019
From: george at ceetonetechnology.com (George Rosamond)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:48:53 -0400
Subject: [talk] Project Trident vs. GhostBSD
In-Reply-To: <28C5B847-9F03-4D81-8B66-7BABC7A16421@bway.net>
References: <CC7FBED1-73E2-4F27-B174-2EFF13C1EC1A@bway.net>
 <8e25aae0-1e09-05c2-fdf6-32d1e6da8675@ceetonetechnology.com>
 <28C5B847-9F03-4D81-8B66-7BABC7A16421@bway.net>
Message-ID: <2d021a61-5c50-a920-cded-ece6eb35af8c@ceetonetechnology.com>

Just a brief reply to the top of the top post:


Charles Sprickman:
> I?m going to top-post here, apologies.
> 
> So basically, the input I got here was from George, with ?try OpenBSD? which is helpful because I had no idea OpenBSD now has a binary upgrade option. This is important to me - I do not want to compile anything other than some oddball small stuff that can?t be found in the package repo. I just wanted to try an open source desktop option and I?m really not ready to wade into the unending options that Linux has.
> 
> So on the George/Open BSD front, I will be trying it, more on that later.

Let me rephrase....

IMHO part of the "easy desktop" notion is based on the ability to do
binary upgrades of the base OS and packages.

Let's make a checklist here.

> 
> Brian?s input was similar. The idea of touching an X config file again does fill me with dread - I lost my taste for conquering that stuff long ago and honestly thought by this point in time we?d be beyond X, but nope. I?ll also take a stab at a vanilla FreeBSD install, going to attempt to make that pkg-only.
> 

Completely doable and reasonable with FreeBSD. I do it myself, and no
issues with FreeBSD.

Automatic Xorg config should be added to the checklist.

I'll let the rest below dangle for others...

g

> Some things I found out:
> 
> - I don?t have a Core2Duo, turns out I already took that to recycling. What I have is my last hackintosh which is an i3 with a discrete (but cheap) NVidia card.
> 
> - What started this is a pile of questionable drives a client dumped on me that all needed to be hit with DBAN, checked with smartmontools, then sorted into bad, good but useless, or good and usable, and I needed a generic ?real? PC to boot DBAN and that when I started digging for old hardware
> 
> - The above process left me with two working 600GB 10K ?VelociRaptor? drives that are not SSD fast, but pretty fast - dual booting for testing is just booting one drive or another so I don?t have to think about fancy bootloaders or breaking my ?good? install
> 
> - This mainboard sucks for booting USB flash drives and seems very picky about bootable USB media, including being able to totally lock the PC up (power cycle required) with both the GhostBSD and Project Trident images, and this is a problem I didn?t solve (directly?)
> 
> - I do still have a stack of blank DVDs (but no blank CDs apparently), and that boot method is reliable (except for the one bad burn that left the dang DVD drive looping on a block it couldn?t read on the Trident DVD for about 4 hours, leading to a very toasty DVD drive)
> 
> - My stock of optical media drives is really low, where did they all go?
> 
> - Any bootable media problems are extremely time-consuming and I wish we?d standardized on some kind of netboot scheme for this stuff, I lost hours and it was not a learning experience
> 
> Anyhow, my verdict for now is that Project Trident is pretty good, and GhostBSD is a close second. My criteria was basically ?do I get all the modern cool stuff like ZFS?? and ?Do I get a fairly lightweight desktop environment that requires zero configuration??. I did not touch a config file with either, but Trident won in that it picked the right combo to get me accelerated graphics. GhostBSD got me full resolution, but video playback was a slideshow. I also kind of like that out of the box Trident gives you either a really minimal option (I think xfce?) or their own ?Lumina? desktop environment which seems pretty svelte. GhostBSD has Mate, which is apparently an older version of Gnome and I?m not a fan. There?s another option, but it was not obvious to me how to switch (Tridnet gives you the option at login).
> 
> Trident allowed me to add Firefox and Chromium with no issues, video playback ?just worked?, as did sound. The GUI pkg manager is fine for exploring and if you dip into the command line and do ?pkg install somepkg? it?s all the same. There are some minimal GUI tools for firewall and service config. OpenRC is used, not really a fan (I mean, I?m running freebsd and I have to google how to enable sshd at startup?). Oh, also not sure if this is a FreeBSD 12 thing or a TrueOS thing or a Trident thing, but swap gets encrypted out of the box which was unexpected.
> 
> Anyhow that?s my jumbled story of getting a BSD desktop for my garage workshop going. I?m staying with Trident for now, but I?ve made it easy for myself to look at other options by having a spare drive mounted in the case.
> 
> Oh, also my PSU was dead, scavenged this hilarity from an old P4-era 1U supermicro box that somehow escaped e-waste recycling:
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/ij5TtuQ.jpg
> 
> (I now have a proper PSU in there, but I also have 3 SATA cables and a power cable leaking out one of the card slots so I don?t have to open the case when I need to pop a few drives in for some oddball task)
> 
> I?ll also note I didn?t loathe PC-BSD - the whole ?this package includes what you want to run plus all the dependencies? was both crazy and practical. :)
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> Charles
> 
>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 9:30 PM, George Rosamond <george at ceetonetechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles Sprickman:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The closest I?ve come to desktop *nix that?s not OS-X for the last decade is occasionally peeking at a random Linux distro in vmware fusion?
>>>
>>> I?ve got enough spare junk around to put together a Core2Duo desktop (8GB RAM, Nvidia 7500-series video) with a decent monitor in my workshop area. I have so little desire to learn Linux systemd stuff at this point, so I thought I?d check in to see what happened to PC-BSD (it?s dead, it seems).
>>>
>>> My very brief Googling suggests that ?Project Trident? and ?GhostBSD? are the two FreeBSD-based desktop options out there.
>>>
>>> Any feelings on either? I want simple, all binary packages (do NOT want to build Chrome or the latest CLANG on a Core2Duo), and that?s about it. Both seem to offer non-KDE, non-Gnome desktops so they both win there. I think easy and up to date package management that does not require futzing with dependencies too much is way up there too.
>>>
>>> I?ll throw this in too, since I spend a fair amount of time in vmware, which open source option for virtualization of windows is preferred these days? I?ll probably wedge a Win 7 VM on there because I?ll at some point need some weird piece of windows-only hobbyist software?
>>>
>>> Any advice appreciated!
>>
>> Hey Spork...
>>
>> I don't follow the *BSD desktop stuff and didn't give the time to PC-BSD
>> that it probably deserved, but I feel like the old era of bad binary
>> packages in far in the past overall.
>>
>> PC-BSD is now TrueOS https://www.trueos.org/...
>>
>> With OpenBSD it's all so simple, and I think it's the same with FreeBSD
>> at least. The old days of needing to use ports on FreeBSD to get what
>> you want seem to be far over.
>>
>> Binary packages have always been the preferred method for OpenBSD users,
>> and they always just seem to work.  And as of recently, there are now
>> binary packages for OpenBSD -stable for at least amd64 and i386:
>>
>> https://ftp4.usa.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.5/packages/
>>
>> Tools like sysupgrade and syspatch also eliminate another need for
>> keeping the source local and using patch(1).
>>
>> And not using some repackaged BSD distro means sticking with strong
>> project support.
>>
>> I know it's not necessarily "parent-friendly", but dealing with dangling
>> files is simple enough.
>>
>> You can dump your core packages with "pkg_info -m", delete all the
>> packages, then just readd the package from the output of `-m`.
>>
>> I really can't imagine things being any easier than today with binary
>> packages.
>>
>> The one thing I do wish for which is a wip in my ports tree is a
>> stripped down xfce. Custom packages are nice, but aren't really in the
>> vein of what you're talking about either. And the default package
>> configs address what I think you're seeking...
>>
>> When it comes to vmware, etc, I have no thoughts or comments!
>>
>> Not sure if this even approaches your query, but thought I'd give you my
>> $0.02.
>>
>> g
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Thu Sep 26 13:39:32 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:39:32 -0400
Subject: [talk] October 2019 Ori Bernstein  talk options
In-Reply-To: <20190920180101.GB23403@panix.com>
References: <211F54F7-E5AC-447D-936B-13C60FD05058@gmail.com>
 <20190920180101.GB23403@panix.com>
Message-ID: <1197D48F-8E54-462D-A921-0DC38400C18E@gmail.com>


> On Sep 20, 2019, at 14:01, Brian Reynolds <nycbug-talk at reynolds.users.panix.com> wrote:
> 
> Pat McEvoy wrote:
>>> 
>>> Possible talk options from Ori:
>>> 
>>> ===
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>> Option 4:
>>> 
>>> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I
>>> have a rant on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably
>>> lighter/more entertaining, and definitely the most easily
>>> accessible to non-developers, but it's also not really BSD.
> 
> I like Option 4.  As an alternative Option 2 (system calls) could be
> interesting.
> 
> I'm also up for an installfest.  I have a couple of oddball machines
> I'd like to get FreeBSD or NetBSD on.
> 
> -- 
> Brian Reynolds -- reynolds at panix.com
> "Long ago, it was the way of my people to travel to the Moon.  .  My people
> travelled to the Moon in a ship called 'Apollo.' I tell the story of Apollo
> in the hope that some day, my people will again travel to the Moon." P. Alway
> 
> ______________________________________________

Just heard from Ori, looks lime we are going with Option 4:

> Option 4:
> And finally, If you want to go farther afield on obscure OSes, I have a rant
> on Plan 9 that I did at BAYLISA. This is probably lighter/more entertaining,
> and definitely the most easily accessible to non-developers, but it's also not
> really BSD.

Will have info / bio posted when I get it. 
Be well,
P
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From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Fri Sep 27 12:58:36 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Patrick McEvoy)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 18:58:36 +0200
Subject: [talk] Next NYC*Bug: October 2nd: Plan 9: Not dead, Just Resting,
 by Ori Bernstein
Message-ID: <5D8E3FBC.5080302@gmail.com>

Plan 9: Not dead, Just Resting, by Ori Bernstein
2019-10-02 @ 18:45 - Suspenders, 108 Greenwich Street; typically on the
second floor, otherwise on the first


More Info:
https://www.nycbug.org/index?action=view&id=10672



From mcevoy.pat at gmail.com  Sat Sep 28 12:07:49 2019
From: mcevoy.pat at gmail.com (Pat McEvoy)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:07:49 -0400
Subject: [talk] November installfest ideas list
Message-ID: <0FD45CCA-8FBC-4ADD-97BF-74F6EC765AC8@gmail.com>

Hello Folks,
I wanted to get the ball rolling on our November installfest. I can bring some USB power supplies for SOC boards and a multi connection (vga, dvi, hdmi, etc)  monitor. Any other ideas? Perhaps some install media, a switch and some ethernet cables would not be a bad idea. Thoughts?



From viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com  Sat Sep 28 13:01:23 2019
From: viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com (Robert Menes)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:01:23 -0400
Subject: [talk] November installfest ideas list
In-Reply-To: <0FD45CCA-8FBC-4ADD-97BF-74F6EC765AC8@gmail.com>
References: <0FD45CCA-8FBC-4ADD-97BF-74F6EC765AC8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TaHT3H+tm6OebN29ZwrNLS9Z554wds4xT232gC5CXjPXFT7A@mail.gmail.com>

Install media for various BSDs across different architectures (i386, amd64,
macppc, etc.) would be useful.

I'll bring a couple of Raspberry Pi 3s along, and a Pi 4 if I get one in
time.

Also gonna bring a MacBook Pro running FreeBSD 12 and my WorkPad Z50.

--Robert

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 12:08 Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Folks,
> I wanted to get the ball rolling on our November installfest. I can bring
> some USB power supplies for SOC boards and a multi connection (vga, dvi,
> hdmi, etc)  monitor. Any other ideas? Perhaps some install media, a switch
> and some ethernet cables would not be a bad idea. Thoughts?
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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From raulcuza at gmail.com  Sun Sep 29 12:59:43 2019
From: raulcuza at gmail.com (Raul Cuza)
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:59:43 -0400
Subject: [talk] November installfest ideas list
In-Reply-To: <CA+TaHT3H+tm6OebN29ZwrNLS9Z554wds4xT232gC5CXjPXFT7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0FD45CCA-8FBC-4ADD-97BF-74F6EC765AC8@gmail.com>
 <CA+TaHT3H+tm6OebN29ZwrNLS9Z554wds4xT232gC5CXjPXFT7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOnfn2zwxbAZMxAtSLwPhRwmqfmV1pbQpburX7117kR8o94uvA@mail.gmail.com>

Having the files for creating install media is good too so we can teach
people how to make USB sticks.

It might be good to teach people how to install OpnSense or other BSDs to
make a firewall.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 13:02 Robert Menes <viewtiful.icchan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Install media for various BSDs across different architectures (i386,
> amd64, macppc, etc.) would be useful.
>
> I'll bring a couple of Raspberry Pi 3s along, and a Pi 4 if I get one in
> time.
>
> Also gonna bring a MacBook Pro running FreeBSD 12 and my WorkPad Z50.
>
> --Robert
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 12:08 Pat McEvoy <mcevoy.pat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Folks,
>> I wanted to get the ball rolling on our November installfest. I can bring
>> some USB power supplies for SOC boards and a multi connection (vga, dvi,
>> hdmi, etc)  monitor. Any other ideas? Perhaps some install media, a switch
>> and some ethernet cables would not be a bad idea. Thoughts?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nycbug.org
>> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nycbug.org
> http://lists.nycbug.org:8080/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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