Meant to send to everyone<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Justin Dearing</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zippy1981@gmail.com">zippy1981@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 1:04 PM<br>Subject: Re: [nycbug-talk] Fwd: svn - but smaller?<br>To: Isaac Levy <<a href="mailto:ike@blackskyresearch.net">ike@blackskyresearch.net</a>><br><br><br>Hey,<div><br></div><div>
Has FreeBSD evaluated Fossil as a SCM possibility? <a href="http://www.fossil-scm.org" target="_blank">http://www.fossil-scm.org</a>. Its written by the author of SQLite and seems to be his "me too" version of git/hg. I've not use it except for RO access to the .NET driver for SQLite. The only reason I bring it up is because due to the license and size of the code, that its something that could feasibly be included in FreeBSD proper.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Other than license, the one feature that impressed me about it was that the fossil executable was an embedded web server that not only served as a server for syncing source code, and providing a human readable view of the source code in the browser (like hg), it had a full wiki and bug tracking system.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Justin</div></font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Isaac Levy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ike@blackskyresearch.net" target="_blank">ike@blackskyresearch.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi All,<br>
<br>
I'm sorry to cross-post, but the conversation below has been brewing with a number of us, and I wanted to highlight it.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
.ike<br>
<br>
<br>
Begin forwarded message:<br>
<br>
> From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" <<a href="mailto:ike@blackskyresearch.net" target="_blank">ike@blackskyresearch.net</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: svn - but smaller?<br>
> Date: January 23, 2013 12:05:25 PM EST<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" target="_blank">freebsd-stable@freebsd.org</a><br>
> Cc: Mike Tancsa <<a href="mailto:mike@sentex.net" target="_blank">mike@sentex.net</a>>, Mike Leone <<a href="mailto:mike.leone@axialmarket.com" target="_blank">mike.leone@axialmarket.com</a>><br>
><br>
> One of my teammates and I were just doing a write up on this very issue,<br>
><br>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Mike Tancsa wrote:<br>
>> On 1/23/2013 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not<br>
>>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.<br>
>>><br>
>> Actually, if you build the port minus the NEON option, its as bad in<br>
>> terms of dependencies.<br>
><br>
> --------<br>
> THE UGLY<br>
><br>
> Source for SVN: 496M (+)<br>
> Source for FreeBSD 9.1: 746M (actual)<br>
><br>
> (df output details below)<br>
><br>
> -------<br>
> THE BAD<br>
><br>
> After 15+ years of FreeBSD use, I remember what a great thing cvsup was when it hit.<br>
> However, SVN presents several problems for OS use (again):<br>
><br>
> 1) License. Many of SVN's dependencies will never be available in the FreeBSD source.<br>
> While this is totally OK for development, SVN is 3rd party software, this is unacceptable to force as 'the' respected path for OS source builds.<br>
><br>
> 2) Heft: cvsup/csup was excellent for 1 thing: grabbing a REL branch. Perhaps grabbing STABLE or CURRENT. Systems administrators could QA/test new branches on massive numbers of servers quickly and efficiently.<br>
><br>
> --------<br>
> THE GOOD<br>
><br>
> We've just resolved this for ourselves, and are wrapping it in a clean sh script:<br>
> (I'd love to know where we can send it for input when we're done?)<br>
><br>
> 40 lines of shell could get the jist of what users really need:<br>
><br>
> - Download the src using fetch(1)<br>
> fetch <a href="ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/9.1-RELEASE/src.txz" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/9.1-RELEASE/src.txz</a><br>
> - Extract the tarball (to /usr/src, or wherever).<br>
> tar -xf src.txz<br>
><br>
> We're hacking out some simple script add-ons out right now for ourselves, to make this more CVSUP like:<br>
> + flag to keep source tarball somewhere (instead of merely un-tarring it in a pipe)<br>
> + flag to un-tar source to a particular directory<br>
> + flag to specify OS version<br>
> + flag to specify RELEASE, STABLE, CURRENT<br>
> (if they exist, CURRENT may be tricky?)<br>
> + define source server/mirror<br>
><br>
> + source config in /etc, (or rc.conf ?), if exists<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Nice-to-have extra features (some necessary for us):<br>
> + define protocol (tricky), e.g. ftp/http/https/other<br>
> + after unpacking, run against mtree (possibly kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources<br>
> + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist<br>
> + checksum tarball (possibly against checksums kept on separate server or locally) to validate sources<br>
> + exit non-zero if particular conditions exist<br>
> + flags to override/change tar options<br>
><br>
> ++ also nice to have, more cvsup features, (I need to read through man page again for a sanity check)<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Regarding SVN:<br>
><br>
> I know the SVN change is a profound leap foreword in source management and collaboration, (I've carried many shops through CVS/SVN/GIT migrations as an SA).<br>
><br>
> Developing/hacking in the FreeBSD source is already simpler, though as an outsider, (no commit bit), the transition has been expectedly rough-edged :)<br>
><br>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:06 AM, Ronald Klop wrote:<br>
>> I've read about this initiative.<br>
>> <a href="http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/" target="_blank">http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/des/svnsup/</a><br>
>> Maybe you can help there.<br>
><br>
> Aside from the heft/licence issues I noted above, it's a bit late to consider this, cvsup is going away:<br>
><br>
> - the *ports* CVS/csup infrastructure is going to be disabled on Feburary 28th<br>
><br>
> - the *source* CVS/csup infrastructure is deprecated, but doesn't have a definite end-date<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 04:12:22PM +0100, Frank Staals wrote:<br>
>>> I'm kind of surprised for the need of this though. Why not simply use<br>
>>> portsnap if you are not actively developing ports?<br>
>><br>
> On Jan 23, 2013, at 10:37 AM, Oliver Brandmueller wrote:<br>
>> But my main concern is the system sources anyway. freebsd-update is not<br>
>> feasible for me, as described in the original post.<br>
><br>
><br>
> For users/administrators, to merely fetch OS sources for a given branch, it goes against the grain of nearly every reason users use FreeBSD to say 'just use svn'.<br>
><br>
> Additionally, it's not been fun recently to 'just use portssnap', when the actual binary ports servers have gone through the recent security incident, (as well as all the changes).<br>
><br>
> I'm not meaning to be negative here, but this has slid pretty far away from the ideals that *BSD users care about.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> .ike<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> # uncompressed canonical sources for svn (I believe I missed some dependencies of the dependencies)<br>
> du -d 1 -h<br>
> 5.5M ./apr-1.4.6<br>
> 5.3M ./sqlite-amalgamation-3071300<br>
> 13M ./libtool-2.4.2<br>
> 79M ./perl-5.16.2<br>
> 4.0M ./neon-0.29.6<br>
> 66M ./Python-2.7.1<br>
> 153M ./db-5.3.21<br>
> 55M ./subversion-1.7.8<br>
> 8.6M ./m4-1.4.16<br>
> 3.0M ./expat-2.1.0<br>
> 12M ./pkg-config-0.27.1<br>
> 3.0M ./gdbm-1.10<br>
> 67M ./gettext-0.18.1.1<br>
> 21M ./libiconv-1.14<br>
> 496M .<br>
><br>
> ## FreeBSD 9.1 Source<br>
> $ pwd ; du -d 1 -h<br>
> /usr/src<br>
> 3.2M ./bin<br>
> 11M ./cddl<br>
> 316M ./contrib<br>
> 40M ./crypto<br>
> 2.0M ./etc<br>
> 3.7M ./games<br>
> 5.9M ./gnu<br>
> 1.1M ./include<br>
> 484k ./kerberos5<br>
> 31M ./lib<br>
> 2.1M ./libexec<br>
> 1.3M ./release<br>
> 32k ./rescue<br>
> 7.2M ./sbin<br>
> 3.6M ./secure<br>
> 39M ./share<br>
> 200M ./sys<br>
> 44M ./tools<br>
> 13M ./usr.bin<br>
> 18M ./usr.sbin<br>
> 746M .<br>
<br>
<br>
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