[nycbug-talk] Fwd: no more apache updates

G.Rosamond george
Wed Jun 23 14:38:07 EDT 2004

On Jun 23, 2004, at 11:26 AM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

> On Jun 23, 2004, at 9:58 AM, Robert Collins wrote:
>>> I like that people are expected to write code or shutup.
>> Personally, I don't like that people are expected to write code or 
>> shutup. I
>> am not an authority on organizational structure by any means. But it 
>> seems
>> to me that when you get a group of people together that want to 
>> accomplish
>> something, from a household all the way to an entire country division 
>> of
>> responsibilities is a necessity.
> The way I see it is this:
> It's *their* project, not yours.  If you don't like their manners, 
> policies and/or philosophies then don't use their software.  It's not 
> your place to say how they should spend their free time.  Hell, you're 
> lucky they share the code with you under a liberal license.

I don't think this is a moral argument about being nice, personal 
philosophies, etc.

The central question is what is best for a project.

I'm not going to single out the projects.

At the end of the day, it is always the core developers' project.  But 
if a project is alive and successful, and looks at the user base as 
complete fools, then that is *not* positive for the project.  That 
should go without saying, but I think that point is missing.

A project isolated from its user base, continually building walls 
between itself and those who administer and use the operating system 
day-to-day, is suffering a fatal flaw.

Great code is really irrelevant.  But its ability to interact with a 
user, advocacy, etc, community is critical for its funding and real 
world relevance.

Some developers may think they reside in ivory towers in isolation.  
But that's completely false.  Great ideas come into being all the time. 
  But without use and committment from a user base, you fall into 
history as a great idea that didn't succeed.

Neither element, developer or end-user (including sysadmins, etc) is 

I know that some people are focused on the OBSD project in this 
discussion, but I don't think the issue is just in that arena.  I think 
it's a fundamental flaw in many developer communities.

And I think it becomes a very relevant question when it comes to 
funding, user testing, etc.

I have so much more to respond to in this thread, but I'll leave you 
all in peace for now.. .


More information about the talk mailing list