[nycbug-talk] Re: BSD Success Stories (fwd)

G.Rosamond george
Thu Sep 23 21:41:00 EDT 2004

On Sep 23, 2004, at 9:30 PM, Isaac Levy wrote:


>>> 1. There's just not that many of us BSD people out there
>> It is a fact that we are a fraction of the Linux market.
> I happily disagree completely with the word 'fraction', so far as web 
> hosting and servers go- (the desktop is another thing altogether).
> Check out this netcraft survey for hosting providers,
> http://tinyurl.com/43dpv
> -or-
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/reports/Hosters?orderby=os_name
> Out of 52 hosts represented, 8 of them are FreeBSD, one is 
> NetBSD/OpenBSD.
> That's roughly 16% of the top hosts, and looking back a few months 
> with Netcraft, this is pretty consistent.
> Linux ends up being 21 hosts, so that's roughly 40% of the market- and 
> with that, Linux and the BSD's make up more than 65% TOTAL, of the top 
> rated systems.  (The rest being Solaris and Windows).
> So, for this survey, (which is arguably a survey that really matters) 
> the BSD's are not represented as a fraction at all- and end up 
> representing pretty hardcore in the top half of that list, when viewed 
> according to performance.

Woah, netcraft, sounds like a cool site. . . <g>

Seriously, the number of techs who have run Linux versus BSD is greatly 
different even in production.  And of course in the world of hobbyists 
this is also true.

Counting virtual hosts is useful in some ways, but useless in terms of 
determining the number of people who would buy BSD books.  There's 
probably one tech per 1000 virtual domains that run BSD, if not less.

And in terms of presence, you can not compare Linux and BSDs. . .

>> But I also don't know to what extent most heavy duty users (eg, staff 
>> of Yahoo, Pair, Verio) make their presence known.  I think we're 
>> talking more quality than quantity when it comes to BSD users.. .
> That's what I'm talking about.

But that doesn't make up for the numbers of people who buy books, which 
is the point of this thread.

>>> or
>>> 2. We're out there but we're not putting our money where our 
>>> advocacy is.
>> Very possible. . .but it's not a useful strategy to just implore 
>> people to buy BSD books.  We've pushed a number of books a lot, but 
>> what I can tell from BSD Mall sales is that it's those new to the 
>> BSDs that are the first to buy books. . .
> I don't know why people buy less BSD books- there may be a lack of 
> advocacy out there, but to be really honest- does anyone in the BSD's 
> really care about the BS that comes with fame?
> For example, who really wants someone writing some lame article about 
> the BSD's in eWeek or that ilk?
> (I'm referencing the thread from a few days ago, 
> http://lists.nycbug.org/pipermail/talk/2004-September/002647.html )
> IT managers and CIO's read that stuff, not tech books.  Do we want to 
> get before their eyes in that context?  Is that really best for the 
> BSD's?  It sure would bolster 'real world' business support... but at 
> what cost to what drives the BSD's?

Of course we want everyone to know the benefits. . .suits and techs 

>>> I can only speak for myself so I went through my book receipts for 
>>> this year. I've bought 8
>>>  tech books, none of them BSD. (If I don't count the Annaliese 
>>> Anderson one I've promised to buy for a former student but haven't 
>>> had the time to order yet). So this weekend I'm going to order Greg
>>> Lehey's latest to replace my well-thumbed 1st edition as well as 
>>> McKusick's latest.
> I agree, as this may have to do with things like INSANELY GREAT MAN 
> PAGES, and projects like the FreeBSD Handbook.
>>> ,
>>> On a related, it's been a long week, topic, I had lunch with some 
>>> execs of a fortune 500 company today. (I've had an ongoing contract 
>>> teaching their employees Linux+.) Of course, BSD always comes up in 
>>> class. Not just because of yours truly, but because the students are 
>>> current BSD admins whose company's product line is migrating from 
>>> FreeBSD 3.x to Redhat 9. Many of the employees requested that the 
>>> company pay for a FreeBSD course. The execs were willing and wanted 
>>> to know the name of the BSD certifications that were available. 
>>> Their training budget is related to certifications: no 
>>> certification, no training money...
>> Right. . .I do think it's worth creating a NYCBUG mailing list on the 
>> topic of a BSD certification.  Certainly BSD Mall is in a good 
>> position to sponsor, as they have a respected name in the community.  
>> We can get a list of necessities for a certification brewed up 
>> through a dedicated mailing list.
> If there's interest in this, that's great- but I for one have had to 
> work with way too many techs with excellent certs, who didn't know a 
> nic from their ear.
> I'll leave it at that.

Again, I think you missed the point.  Certs are of course mostly bs.  
But the manager in Dru's example wouldn't put money towards training 
without a cert.  I don't think Dru raised the cert issue because she 
needs initials after her name.

>>> O'Reilly's response and this company's response should be a very big 
>>> wakeup call to anyone interested in BSD. I won't be posting to 
>>> advocacy until my double-shifts are over next Thursday. I need time 
>>> to think and rest so I won't be overly irritated when that advocacy 
>>> thread fizzles into nothingness.
>> understandable. . .particularly for someone who can quickly find out 
>> the books they purchased in the last year. . .
>> <g>
>> <snip>
> Rocket-
> .ike


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