[nycbug-talk] IPv6 Followup

[Alex Pilosov]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Isaac Levy wrote:

> 
> Please put any 'No IPv6' sentiment or information in new threads.  
> (Please realize, I want you to post, but you quickly derail every
> positive thread about IPv6 on this list- and that's not acceptable.)
Expert opinion was asked, expert opinion was given. If you do not like the 
expert opinions, you can listen to 1000 others who are *not* experts and 
don't really know. They may be more polite, but they aren't experts. They 
may agree with *your* opinion, but they aren't experts. 

If the only acceptable opinion was yours, why ask for opinions?

> Your insistance that the network operators are the only ones using the
> internet for anything 'meaningful' has become quite tiresome, as it
> leaves out the other 1.4 Billion current internet users worldwide.
Uh, without network operators, there's no interwebs. If operators don't
care about v6, it will not happen. As simple as that. It is the difference 
between experimenting (which everyone is encouraged to do) and production 
use (meaning, someone's making money doing it and cares if it is up or 
down). I cannot offer opinion on experimenting, there are others who know 
better. I can only tell you about production use. There isn't.

> Regarding your IPv6 Statements:
> 
> - If you had come to one of the last 2 NYC*BUG meetings on the subject,
> you'd have had ample opportunity to see people show up who care about
> IPv6.
about the same as 8 years ago. experimenting. i've done so, about 7 years
ago, through HE tunnelbroker, been there, done that, saw the dancing
turtle, irc'd from :dead:beef,  moved on.

> - Demeaning users of Sixxs or HE is truly uncalled for, and kindof
> silly. I don't even know where to get a "*real*" IPv6 connection in NYC-
> high or low? (Especially, after I called to order an IPv6 DSL line from
> *your ISP*, you could not provide me with even that!)
Regretfully, me and everyone else. I think you'll find though that pilo 
will be one of first to actually do it. Eventually. 

Oh, try speakeasy. I think they were rambling about being v6-enabled.

> Sixxs and HE are the only mass-consumption options available, and until
> people in your position (and larger) start selling usable IPv6 pipes,
> there will be even more tunnel use...
I'll avoid commenting on them this time then ;)

> -- Regarding my interpretation of your attitude:
> 
> - Your negativity is impacting to us, people who for one reason or
> another, *want* to hack this stuff.  Exploration is valuable here as
> much as any quantifiable need, true progress can come from the seed of
> personal interest.
There's a big difference between hacking and production use. There are 
people hacking on PDP-10's and brainfuck, they find it cool (I do too).

However, when you ask me what is the *real* status of ipv6 on the
interwebs, I'm very honest in telling you. If you want to close your eyes,
and pretend that ipv6 is universally accepted, natively routed by everyone
and is above .01% of global traffic, be my guest. That wouldn't make it
true.

> NYC*BUG is not a business, an ISP, etc...  This is not your board room
> to shout directives in.
Eh, I don't order anyone to shut up - you just did, though. 

All I can do is to say what I believe to be true. I don't mean to
discourage anyone from experimenting.

> - You are not the arbiter of meaningful use of the Internet. NANOG is a
> fantastic organization, and you do important work we all respect as a
> network operator.  However, your relentless degradation of other
> internet users intentions is fairly distasteful- weather they are
> technical users of the internet like most on this list, or your average
> non-technical person.
> 
> -- I don't think your a bad guy Alex, and I really appreciate all the
> fantastic contributions you've made to this list- but for the last time:
> Please stop derailing every thread about IPv6- simply start new threads.
a) stop asking the question "is there actual operational use of ipv6".

b) if you can't handle the truth (tm), feel free to unsubscribe me.

-alex