[nycbug-talk] IPv6 Followup

[Isaac Levy]

On Nov 11, 2007, at 7:33 PM, Alex Pilosov wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Isaac Levy wrote:
>
>>
>> Please put any 'No IPv6' sentiment or information in new threads.
>> (Please realize, I want you to post, but you quickly derail every
>> positive thread about IPv6 on this list- and that's not acceptable.)
> Expert opinion was asked, expert opinion was given. If you do not  
> like the
> expert opinions, you can listen to 1000 others who are *not* experts  
> and
> don't really know. They may be more polite, but they aren't experts.  
> They
> may agree with *your* opinion, but they aren't experts.
>
> If the only acceptable opinion was yours, why ask for opinions?
>
>> Your insistance that the network operators are the only ones using  
>> the
>> internet for anything 'meaningful' has become quite tiresome, as it
>> leaves out the other 1.4 Billion current internet users worldwide.
> Uh, without network operators, there's no interwebs. If operators  
> don't
> care about v6, it will not happen. As simple as that. It is the  
> difference
> between experimenting (which everyone is encouraged to do) and  
> production
> use (meaning, someone's making money doing it and cares if it is up or
> down). I cannot offer opinion on experimenting, there are others who  
> know
> better. I can only tell you about production use. There isn't.
>
>> Regarding your IPv6 Statements:
>>
>> - If you had come to one of the last 2 NYC*BUG meetings on the  
>> subject,
>> you'd have had ample opportunity to see people show up who care about
>> IPv6.
> about the same as 8 years ago. experimenting. i've done so, about 7  
> years
> ago, through HE tunnelbroker, been there, done that, saw the dancing
> turtle, irc'd from :dead:beef,  moved on.
>
>> - Demeaning users of Sixxs or HE is truly uncalled for, and kindof
>> silly. I don't even know where to get a "*real*" IPv6 connection in  
>> NYC-
>> high or low? (Especially, after I called to order an IPv6 DSL line  
>> from
>> *your ISP*, you could not provide me with even that!)
> Regretfully, me and everyone else. I think you'll find though that  
> pilo
> will be one of first to actually do it. Eventually.
>
> Oh, try speakeasy. I think they were rambling about being v6-enabled.
>
>> Sixxs and HE are the only mass-consumption options available, and  
>> until
>> people in your position (and larger) start selling usable IPv6 pipes,
>> there will be even more tunnel use...
> I'll avoid commenting on them this time then ;)
>
>> -- Regarding my interpretation of your attitude:
>>
>> - Your negativity is impacting to us, people who for one reason or
>> another, *want* to hack this stuff.  Exploration is valuable here as
>> much as any quantifiable need, true progress can come from the seed  
>> of
>> personal interest.
> There's a big difference between hacking and production use. There are
> people hacking on PDP-10's and brainfuck, they find it cool (I do  
> too).
>
> However, when you ask me what is the *real* status of ipv6 on the
> interwebs, I'm very honest in telling you. If you want to close your  
> eyes,
> and pretend that ipv6 is universally accepted, natively routed by  
> everyone
> and is above .01% of global traffic, be my guest. That wouldn't make  
> it
> true.
>
>> NYC*BUG is not a business, an ISP, etc...  This is not your board  
>> room
>> to shout directives in.
> Eh, I don't order anyone to shut up - you just did, though.
>
> All I can do is to say what I believe to be true. I don't mean to
> discourage anyone from experimenting.
>
>> - You are not the arbiter of meaningful use of the Internet. NANOG  
>> is a
>> fantastic organization, and you do important work we all respect as a
>> network operator.  However, your relentless degradation of other
>> internet users intentions is fairly distasteful- weather they are
>> technical users of the internet like most on this list, or your  
>> average
>> non-technical person.
>>
>> -- I don't think your a bad guy Alex, and I really appreciate all the
>> fantastic contributions you've made to this list- but for the last  
>> time:
>> Please stop derailing every thread about IPv6- simply start new  
>> threads.
> a) stop asking the question "is there actual operational use of ipv6".
>
> b) if you can't handle the truth (tm), feel free to unsubscribe me.
>
> -alex
>
>

Alex, this is simple:

I'm not telling you to stop posting.

I'm asking you to give other voices some space, by continuing to share  
your version of 'the truth(tm)' in new threads, it's derailing other  
threads here!

I understand your position, and we all respect your vantage point, but  
other people on this list are moving foreword with IPv6 deployments at  
various scales.  Some of us are even enjoying it!

Best,
.ike