[nycbug-talk] For and Against IPv6

[Isaac Levy]

Hi Alex,

Please excuse my forking the thread to respond, I don't mean to sound  
dismissive, but the thread you are responding to was NOT about  
arguing a business case for/against IPv6.

I'm not terribly interested in arguing this case any more, but for  
the sake of politeness and out of respect in validating your  
concerns, I'll respond to this sentiment below.

Alex: In the future, please feel free to start new threads when  
changing the subject and arguing the case against, (or for) IPv6!

On Oct 11, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Alex Pilosov wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Isaac Levy wrote:
>
>> Not surprisingly, the sales guy didn't know anything about IPv6
>> addressing, and I explained the rammifications of these points:
>>
>> 1) IPv4 gives us 4billion+ addresses, vs. IPv6 and 32Undecillion+
>> addresses
> who cares as long as you can get ips

My current DSL isp charges me $5/mo for each IP now, new policy in  
the last year.

>
>> 2) Smaller and more efficient Routing Tables (Thanks Gene Cronk!)
> oh don't get me started.

:)

> ipv6 is going to be a nightmare once it is
> actually deployed. i don't know what gene was saying, but from  
> operator's
> perspective, it isn't necessarily true.

Um, wasn't there anyone screaming when IPv4 replaced the other  
networking protocols of the day?  (which supported something like a  
paltry 255 hosts across some networks?!)
/me digs in the history books for some info...

>
>> 3) The rest of the developed (and much of the underdeveloped)  
>> world is
>> deploying it for production use, only Univ./Govt. are horsing around
>> with it in the US...
> not really no, nobody cares, except for japs.

What about Russia, Alex?  I guess they have plenty of IP's.

Have you or your customers done any business with Taiwan or China  
recently?  My people have...

Respectfully questioning your experiences behind this logic:
Seriously, without meaning to sound contentious- how much time do you  
spend using the IPv6 internet to know all of this?  I comprehend your  
serious expertise and knowledge regarding the IP networking, and I  
always appreciate your low-level knowledge of networks as you  
contribute to the list- but seriously- how do you know so much about  
who uses the IPv6 net?  (How much do you know about what people *do*  
with your own networks?)

My case:
After getting involved with various international business situations  
this year, I recognize that organizations I work with would benefit  
from IPv6 connectivity.  I now have a business case behind my need,  
and I don't necessarily care if you understand that, or believe that  
it's 'valid'.
It doesn't matter if I create

>
>> The points got him very excited, he immediately saw the obvious sales
>> opportunities of being the first NYC ISP to offer real (or very fast
>> tunneled) IPv6 connectivity, as a part of the package. He also noted
>> increasing frustration he's having with IANA regarding IP  
>> allocation for
>> his customers...
> he's a sales guy, he'll get excited for any sales.

Well of course :)  Is that bad?  I mean, really, this is an awful big  
carrot dangling in front of ALL the NYC ISP's... yet none of them  
budge...
And power, bandwidth, and hardware all are beginning huge transitions  
for speed...

>
> also, isps dont deal with iana, maybe arin.

Noted and understood, but he did mention some directive from IANA  
they were responding to- I'll ask more about it next time I talk with  
him.

>
> we'll sell ipv6 (native) once someone wants it. put a business case
> forward, you'll get transit in a week.

Really?  Do you mean you'll stitch something together quickly for me,  
or it'll be a real, usable, production-grade line?

Based on your attitude about IPv6, on list over the months, I'm not  
certain that I'd want to trust this line...

>
>> My ISP sales guy, however knowledgeable, is not very technical- but
>> he's a manager (read: decision maker)- and to my delight, he was
>> excited to get this request from me...
>>
>> What other info can I give to this Non-Technical ISP rep, (or any ISP
>> sales rep), to help build a business case in his organization, so  
>> we can
>> buy real IPv6 lines in NYC sooner than later?!
> put a business case forward. say "there is an active demand for v6,  
> if you
> offer v6 transit you'll instantly sell 500 T1s and 10000 dsl lines".
> except, of course, its not true.

How do you know that nobody will buy it?  Your market research?   
(again, not meaning to sound contentious- you DO know a hell of a lot  
about the data/ISP biz' in NYC)  However, I don't see Pilosoft listed  
when I search for 'IPv6 isp nyc':

http://tinyurl.com/yqm79g (accoona)
http://tinyurl.com/yp7qk2 (google)

And I don't see Pilosoft advertising any IPv6 services or  
capabilities here:

http://www.dslreports.com/nsearch?q=ipv6+isp+nyc&action=Go

and no mention of it on the Pilosoft website even:

http://pilosoft.com/
http://tinyurl.com/yveobx (google search for IPv6 on Pilosoft site)

--
Hrm.  Is this because you don't provide IPv6 connectivity, and don't  
really want to?

>
> in 6 years of pilosoft, i've had exactly two people ask if i had v6
> transit. and large portion of our business is catering to geeks.

Ok, consider me asking for it then.

If you can provide a reliable DSL line with IPv6, I want to buy it.
I'm not sure I will, because I don't really see you guys providing  
any lines- but if you do, I'll commit to buying it.  You have it in  
writing, here.

It's just gotta be a decent pipe- however you provide the IPv6  
connectivity.

I'll call you about DSL pricing.

--
Or, conversely:
If I get DSL from Pilosoft, can I get a /6 with it please?  (A /8  
would even do me for now, I *will* utilize the IP's, if you give it  
to me...)
I'm making a serious request.

Rocket-
.ike